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{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 560.05, \"end\": 560.19, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 560.19, \"end\": 560.33, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 560.33, \"end\": 560.39, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 560.39, \"end\": 560.75, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 560.75, \"end\": 560.97, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 560.97, \"end\": 560.99, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"體\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,187 --> 00:00:28,564\n謝謝郭主委美惠召委我們現在請中委會李主委主委您身體還好嗎還好您快退休了吧動了一個小手術所以看起來你行動好像今天有點不太像以前快退休了吧快到任了沒有退休金是借期借期\n\n2\n00:00:30,314 --> 00:00:56,506\n雖然您已經快屆期離開這個職位但是我覺得做一天和尚敲一天鐘該做的事情該負的責任還是得要完整的把它結束好嗎謝謝委員並且交接今天有幾個問題想要問您就是這次的大罷免案最終雖然是以失敗收場但是代價卻是我們全國的納稅的人民共同承擔的\n\n3\n00:00:57,586 --> 00:01:15,553\n你在9月2號的時候你也說一案的罷免的經費是1700萬到1800萬因為年度預算不夠所以必須要動用第二預備金所以總共這一次的罷免案是4億281.5萬元\n\n4\n00:01:19,455 --> 00:01:37,334\n而在人力方面呢我們也動員了將近27萬的人力那麼我要再請教主委到現在為止這種勞民又傷財的這個大罷免制度你覺得是值得鼓勵值得推廣的嗎\n\n5\n00:01:38,268 --> 00:01:43,029\n這個牽涉到我先要講的是無差別的大罷免這牽涉到這個政治上的判斷我們選務機關是不宜來發表評論我們要的我們做的就是如果是合法的程序進來的話那我們就依照法律的規定來順利的把選務很好所以當然現在呢\n\n6\n00:02:02,293 --> 00:02:16,723\n我們也已經修法了修得非常完善了比較完善一點但是我還記得當時我做召委的時候在這邊修這個法的時候非常的遺憾民進黨的朋友們在這邊霸佔了主席台癱瘓了\n\n7\n00:02:18,144 --> 00:02:42,427\n好久的議事規程但是最後終究我們在立法院還是刪讀通過了把這個選罷法給他比較完善的修法了那當時我們也看到民進黨的立法院的黨團吳思堯幹事長還沒修法之前他說選舉跟罷免都是憲法所保障的民主制度也是人民的基本權利\n\n8\n00:02:43,548 --> 00:03:07,405\n任何政黨還有從政者都應該尊重然後蘇巧惠委員她也說她說這樣的行動呢深化了台灣的公民運動跟民主素養雖然我們現在回過頭來看根本少有所謂的公民運動所謂的公民者其實也就是政黨發動的大家也得看得非常的清楚\n\n9\n00:03:07,905 --> 00:03:31,264\n那么我还想要再进一步的请问您您是否也认同吴思耀干事长跟苏巧慧委员说的只要他形式上符合了人民直接投票的参政权就是对民族有益对人民有好处的参与方式您认为怎么样您认同吗\n\n10\n00:03:32,007 --> 00:03:47,342\n只要是按照法律的規定所提出的不管是選舉罷免或者是公民投票我們都依法必須要受理這也是我們最重要的核心願望謝謝您非常這樣子制式的回答\n\n11\n00:03:48,203 --> 00:04:02,797\n那我雖然尊重您的看法也尊重吳思瑤委員跟蘇巧慧委員的看法但是呢我也必須要說按照你們的說法所謂形式上它符合人民直接投票的參政權\n\n12\n00:04:03,838 --> 00:04:25,653\n就必然就是對民族有益那麼我就請大家不要雙標為什麼因為當時我在修選辦法70條71條73條的時候我主張原住民的立委只要是出缺他就必須要跟區域的立委是一樣的一旦出缺了他就必須要補選\n\n13\n00:04:27,074 --> 00:04:40,511\n而當時我們的內政部他有展現善意他明確的回應我說原住民的立法委員跟區域的立委同屬立法委員但出缺的時候就必須要按照\n\n14\n00:04:41,944 --> 00:05:09,807\n規定來相同內政不是同意的那麼中選會當時您告訴我說原住民的立法委員補選的時候這形同辦理全國性的選舉它需要花費大量的人力跟物力的等等的資源明白的講當時主委您的意思就是說當原住民的立委出缺的時候我們的族人要透過補選要選出適合的人選的時候\n\n15\n00:05:10,988 --> 00:05:37,920\n您說太花錢不值得辦但是當民進黨他要推動耗資上億元的罷免案的時候你卻說你這個尊重立法院然後你也說這是深化民主值得鼓勵主委你不覺得這就是雙重標準嗎我更坦白的說這是歧視我們原住民參政權還是說當民進黨他要\n\n16\n00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:48,904\n政治追殺的時候什麼都可以但是當原住民要求跟非原住民一樣的平等權利的時候民進黨的朋友們你們卻習慣選擇視而不見尤其是現在執政是民進黨\n\n17\n00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:19,193\n在這裡我要嚴正的告訴也提醒族委民進黨對於我們族人的選舉權的歧視不是一天兩天的事因為這件事情我提了很久你們執政大概已經快九年了而這件事情呢我看在眼裡痛在心裡面\n\n18\n00:06:19,833 --> 00:06:22,959\n大罷免花了這麼多錢原住民的補選沒有錢也沒有人力所以我認為這不是制度的問題這是政治的選擇問題您可不可以回答\n\n19\n00:06:32,665 --> 00:06:57,690\n我已經把我內心的話說出來了另外我好不容易爭取到的優化原住民的選舉人領票作業事辦計畫的報告我其實就是為了要一次性解決長期存在我們族人選票誤發這個主委您很清楚我在這邊質詢了很多次族人選票誤發少發或者是沒有發的問題請問一下主委\n\n20\n00:07:00,251 --> 00:07:08,792\n這項事辦計畫目前的執行進度到哪裡了您11月已經要離開你的位置了你必須清楚交代一下\n\n21\n00:07:09,529 --> 00:07:31,220\n在我離開這個位置之前我們已經兩次一次在6月一次在9月兩次的要求各地選委會必須要針對這個專案要先進行一些準備的工作可是主委您知道嗎我看到的是114年的12月底你們才會跟地方召開會議\n\n22\n00:07:32,541 --> 00:08:00,073\n然後這個會議裡面其實我們看不到細部的規劃也不知道你們要怎麼樣執行你們要如何來幫助族人來解決這個問題有一些前置的工作還是必須要先定案第一個就是投票的日期第二個就是投票所然後這兩個事情決定了我們還要去統計在我們事辦的區域裡面到底有多少的原住民的選民\n\n23\n00:08:01,033 --> 00:08:20,344\n诸如此类的这个规划的工作都会在年初明年的年初我们选务的协调会的时候都会具体的来定定所以这件事情你会非常负责任的交代下去然后接任你的人必须要完成这项工作我已经交代过两次了\n\n24\n00:08:21,525 --> 00:08:50,348\n已經交代過兩次所以我在這邊也公正的要求我們的中選會你們必須在一個月之內給我提出素面報告有兩項第一個請盡速提出原住民立委補選經費的精算跟通盤檢討的報告我們必須要讓社會清楚了解原住民的立法委員出區的時候補選我們到底會動用多少的財力還有多少的人力好嗎第二個\n\n25\n00:08:51,021 --> 00:09:08,899\n必須要優化原住民選舉人領票作業事辦計畫這個計畫不僅僅適用在地方公職選舉更應該要全面擴大到中央層級的民代選舉我們必須要用制度化的方式來保障我們族人的選舉權跟平等的參政權\n\n26\n00:09:11,982 --> 00:09:20,990\n這個領票優化徹底的方式就是說原住民的這個選舉人名稱是另外造成沒關係你一年內之內必須要正式的提書面報告給我可以嗎好沒問題好謝謝主委請保重身體\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3187\t28564\t謝謝郭主委美惠召委我們現在請中委會李主委主委您身體還好嗎還好您快退休了吧動了一個小手術所以看起來你行動好像今天有點不太像以前快退休了吧快到任了沒有退休金是借期借期\n30314\t56506\t雖然您已經快屆期離開這個職位但是我覺得做一天和尚敲一天鐘該做的事情該負的責任還是得要完整的把它結束好嗎謝謝委員並且交接今天有幾個問題想要問您就是這次的大罷免案最終雖然是以失敗收場但是代價卻是我們全國的納稅的人民共同承擔的\n57586\t75553\t你在9月2號的時候你也說一案的罷免的經費是1700萬到1800萬因為年度預算不夠所以必須要動用第二預備金所以總共這一次的罷免案是4億281.5萬元\n79455\t97334\t而在人力方面呢 我們也動員了將近27萬的人力那麼我要再請教主委 到現在為止這種勞民又傷財的這個大罷免制度你覺得是值得鼓勵 值得推廣的嗎\n98268\t103029\t這個牽涉到我先要講的是無差別的大罷免這牽涉到這個政治上的判斷我們選務機關是不宜來發表評論我們要的我們做的就是如果是合法的程序進來的話那我們就依照法律的規定來順利的把選務很好所以當然現在呢\n122293\t136723\t我們也已經修法了修得非常完善了比較完善一點但是我還記得當時我做召委的時候在這邊修這個法的時候非常的遺憾民進黨的朋友們在這邊霸佔了主席台癱瘓了\n138144\t162427\t好久的議事規程但是最後終究我們在立法院還是刪讀通過了把這個選罷法給他比較完善的修法了那當時我們也看到民進黨的立法院的黨團吳思堯幹事長還沒修法之前他說選舉跟罷免都是憲法所保障的民主制度也是人民的基本權利\n163548\t187405\t任何政黨還有從政者都應該尊重然後蘇巧惠委員她也說她說這樣的行動呢深化了台灣的公民運動跟民主素養雖然我們現在回過頭來看根本少有所謂的公民運動所謂的公民者其實也就是政黨發動的大家也得看得非常的清楚\n187905\t211264\t那么我还想要再进一步的请问您您是否也认同吴思耀干事长跟苏巧慧委员说的只要他形式上符合了人民直接投票的参政权就是对民族有益对人民有好处的参与方式您认为怎么样 您认同吗\n212007\t227342\t只要是按照法律的規定所提出的不管是選舉罷免或者是公民投票我們都依法必須要受理這也是我們最重要的核心願望謝謝您非常這樣子制式的回答\n228203\t242797\t那我雖然尊重您的看法也尊重吳思瑤委員跟蘇巧慧委員的看法但是呢我也必須要說按照你們的說法所謂形式上它符合人民直接投票的參政權\n243838\t265653\t就必然就是對民族有益 那麼我就請大家不要雙標為什麼 因為當時我在修選辦法70條 71條 73條的時候我主張原住民的立委只要是出缺 他就必須要跟區域的立委是一樣的一旦出缺了 他就必須要補選\n267074\t280511\t而當時我們的內政部他有展現善意他明確的回應我說原住民的立法委員跟區域的立委同屬立法委員但出缺的時候就必須要按照\n281944\t309807\t規定來相同內政不是同意的那麼中選會當時您告訴我說原住民的立法委員補選的時候這形同辦理全國性的選舉它需要花費大量的人力跟物力的等等的資源明白的講當時主委您的意思就是說當原住民的立委出缺的時候我們的族人要透過補選要選出適合的人選的時候\n310988\t337920\t您說太花錢不值得辦但是當民進黨他要推動耗資上億元的罷免案的時候你卻說你這個尊重立法院然後你也說這是深化民主值得鼓勵主委你不覺得這就是雙重標準嗎我更坦白的說這是歧視我們原住民參政權還是說當民進黨他要\n338920\t348904\t政治追殺的時候什麼都可以但是當原住民要求跟非原住民一樣的平等權利的時候民進黨的朋友們你們卻習慣選擇視而不見尤其是現在執政是民進黨\n355000\t379193\t在這裡我要嚴正的告訴也提醒族委民進黨對於我們族人的選舉權的歧視不是一天兩天的事因為這件事情我提了很久你們執政大概已經快九年了而這件事情呢我看在眼裡 痛在心裡面\n379833\t382959\t大罷免花了這麼多錢原住民的補選沒有錢也沒有人力所以我認為這不是制度的問題這是政治的選擇問題您可不可以回答\n392665\t417690\t我已經把我內心的話說出來了另外我好不容易爭取到的優化原住民的選舉人領票作業事辦計畫的報告我其實就是為了要一次性解決長期存在我們族人選票誤發這個主委您很清楚我在這邊質詢了很多次族人選票誤發少發或者是沒有發的問題請問一下主委\n420251\t428792\t這項事辦計畫目前的執行進度到哪裡了您11月已經要離開你的位置了你必須清楚交代一下\n429529\t451220\t在我離開這個位置之前我們已經兩次一次在6月一次在9月兩次的要求各地選委會必須要針對這個專案要先進行一些準備的工作可是主委您知道嗎我看到的是114年的12月底你們才會跟地方召開會議\n452541\t480073\t然後這個會議裡面其實我們看不到細部的規劃也不知道你們要怎麼樣執行你們要如何來幫助族人來解決這個問題有一些前置的工作還是必須要先定案第一個就是投票的日期第二個就是投票所然後這兩個事情決定了我們還要去統計在我們事辦的區域裡面到底有多少的原住民的選民\n481033\t500344\t诸如此类的这个规划的工作都会在年初明年的年初我们选务的协调会的时候都会具体的来定定所以这件事情你会非常负责任的交代下去然后接任你的人必须要完成这项工作我已经交代过两次了\n501525\t530348\t已經交代過兩次所以我在這邊也公正的要求我們的中選會你們必須在一個月之內給我提出素面報告有兩項第一個請盡速提出原住民立委補選經費的精算跟通盤檢討的報告我們必須要讓社會清楚了解原住民的立法委員出區的時候補選我們到底會動用多少的財力還有多少的人力好嗎第二個\n531021\t548899\t必須要優化原住民選舉人領票作業事辦計畫這個計畫不僅僅適用在地方公職選舉更應該要全面擴大到中央層級的民代選舉我們必須要用制度化的方式來保障我們族人的選舉權跟平等的參政權\n551982\t560990\t這個領票優化徹底的方式就是說原住民的這個選舉人名稱是另外造成沒關係你一年內之內必須要正式的提書面報告給我可以嗎好沒問題好謝謝主委請保重身體\n","txt":"謝謝郭主委美惠召委我們現在請中委會李主委主委您身體還好嗎還好您快退休了吧動了一個小手術所以看起來你行動好像今天有點不太像以前快退休了吧快到任了沒有退休金是借期借期\n雖然您已經快屆期離開這個職位但是我覺得做一天和尚敲一天鐘該做的事情該負的責任還是得要完整的把它結束好嗎謝謝委員並且交接今天有幾個問題想要問您就是這次的大罷免案最終雖然是以失敗收場但是代價卻是我們全國的納稅的人民共同承擔的\n你在9月2號的時候你也說一案的罷免的經費是1700萬到1800萬因為年度預算不夠所以必須要動用第二預備金所以總共這一次的罷免案是4億281.5萬元\n而在人力方面呢 我們也動員了將近27萬的人力那麼我要再請教主委 到現在為止這種勞民又傷財的這個大罷免制度你覺得是值得鼓勵 值得推廣的嗎\n這個牽涉到我先要講的是無差別的大罷免這牽涉到這個政治上的判斷我們選務機關是不宜來發表評論我們要的我們做的就是如果是合法的程序進來的話那我們就依照法律的規定來順利的把選務很好所以當然現在呢\n我們也已經修法了修得非常完善了比較完善一點但是我還記得當時我做召委的時候在這邊修這個法的時候非常的遺憾民進黨的朋友們在這邊霸佔了主席台癱瘓了\n好久的議事規程但是最後終究我們在立法院還是刪讀通過了把這個選罷法給他比較完善的修法了那當時我們也看到民進黨的立法院的黨團吳思堯幹事長還沒修法之前他說選舉跟罷免都是憲法所保障的民主制度也是人民的基本權利\n任何政黨還有從政者都應該尊重然後蘇巧惠委員她也說她說這樣的行動呢深化了台灣的公民運動跟民主素養雖然我們現在回過頭來看根本少有所謂的公民運動所謂的公民者其實也就是政黨發動的大家也得看得非常的清楚\n那么我还想要再进一步的请问您您是否也认同吴思耀干事长跟苏巧慧委员说的只要他形式上符合了人民直接投票的参政权就是对民族有益对人民有好处的参与方式您认为怎么样 您认同吗\n只要是按照法律的規定所提出的不管是選舉罷免或者是公民投票我們都依法必須要受理這也是我們最重要的核心願望謝謝您非常這樣子制式的回答\n那我雖然尊重您的看法也尊重吳思瑤委員跟蘇巧慧委員的看法但是呢我也必須要說按照你們的說法所謂形式上它符合人民直接投票的參政權\n就必然就是對民族有益 那麼我就請大家不要雙標為什麼 因為當時我在修選辦法70條 71條 73條的時候我主張原住民的立委只要是出缺 他就必須要跟區域的立委是一樣的一旦出缺了 他就必須要補選\n而當時我們的內政部他有展現善意他明確的回應我說原住民的立法委員跟區域的立委同屬立法委員但出缺的時候就必須要按照\n規定來相同內政不是同意的那麼中選會當時您告訴我說原住民的立法委員補選的時候這形同辦理全國性的選舉它需要花費大量的人力跟物力的等等的資源明白的講當時主委您的意思就是說當原住民的立委出缺的時候我們的族人要透過補選要選出適合的人選的時候\n您說太花錢不值得辦但是當民進黨他要推動耗資上億元的罷免案的時候你卻說你這個尊重立法院然後你也說這是深化民主值得鼓勵主委你不覺得這就是雙重標準嗎我更坦白的說這是歧視我們原住民參政權還是說當民進黨他要\n政治追殺的時候什麼都可以但是當原住民要求跟非原住民一樣的平等權利的時候民進黨的朋友們你們卻習慣選擇視而不見尤其是現在執政是民進黨\n在這裡我要嚴正的告訴也提醒族委民進黨對於我們族人的選舉權的歧視不是一天兩天的事因為這件事情我提了很久你們執政大概已經快九年了而這件事情呢我看在眼裡 痛在心裡面\n大罷免花了這麼多錢原住民的補選沒有錢也沒有人力所以我認為這不是制度的問題這是政治的選擇問題您可不可以回答\n我已經把我內心的話說出來了另外我好不容易爭取到的優化原住民的選舉人領票作業事辦計畫的報告我其實就是為了要一次性解決長期存在我們族人選票誤發這個主委您很清楚我在這邊質詢了很多次族人選票誤發少發或者是沒有發的問題請問一下主委\n這項事辦計畫目前的執行進度到哪裡了您11月已經要離開你的位置了你必須清楚交代一下\n在我離開這個位置之前我們已經兩次一次在6月一次在9月兩次的要求各地選委會必須要針對這個專案要先進行一些準備的工作可是主委您知道嗎我看到的是114年的12月底你們才會跟地方召開會議\n然後這個會議裡面其實我們看不到細部的規劃也不知道你們要怎麼樣執行你們要如何來幫助族人來解決這個問題有一些前置的工作還是必須要先定案第一個就是投票的日期第二個就是投票所然後這兩個事情決定了我們還要去統計在我們事辦的區域裡面到底有多少的原住民的選民\n诸如此类的这个规划的工作都会在年初明年的年初我们选务的协调会的时候都会具体的来定定所以这件事情你会非常负责任的交代下去然后接任你的人必须要完成这项工作我已经交代过两次了\n已經交代過兩次所以我在這邊也公正的要求我們的中選會你們必須在一個月之內給我提出素面報告有兩項第一個請盡速提出原住民立委補選經費的精算跟通盤檢討的報告我們必須要讓社會清楚了解原住民的立法委員出區的時候補選我們到底會動用多少的財力還有多少的人力好嗎第二個\n必須要優化原住民選舉人領票作業事辦計畫這個計畫不僅僅適用在地方公職選舉更應該要全面擴大到中央層級的民代選舉我們必須要用制度化的方式來保障我們族人的選舉權跟平等的參政權\n這個領票優化徹底的方式就是說原住民的這個選舉人名稱是另外造成沒關係你一年內之內必須要正式的提書面報告給我可以嗎好沒問題好謝謝主委請保重身體\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.187 --> 00:28.564\n謝謝郭主委美惠召委我們現在請中委會李主委主委您身體還好嗎還好您快退休了吧動了一個小手術所以看起來你行動好像今天有點不太像以前快退休了吧快到任了沒有退休金是借期借期\n\n00:30.314 --> 00:56.506\n雖然您已經快屆期離開這個職位但是我覺得做一天和尚敲一天鐘該做的事情該負的責任還是得要完整的把它結束好嗎謝謝委員並且交接今天有幾個問題想要問您就是這次的大罷免案最終雖然是以失敗收場但是代價卻是我們全國的納稅的人民共同承擔的\n\n00:57.586 --> 01:15.553\n你在9月2號的時候你也說一案的罷免的經費是1700萬到1800萬因為年度預算不夠所以必須要動用第二預備金所以總共這一次的罷免案是4億281.5萬元\n\n01:19.455 --> 01:37.334\n而在人力方面呢我們也動員了將近27萬的人力那麼我要再請教主委到現在為止這種勞民又傷財的這個大罷免制度你覺得是值得鼓勵值得推廣的嗎\n\n01:38.268 --> 01:43.029\n這個牽涉到我先要講的是無差別的大罷免這牽涉到這個政治上的判斷我們選務機關是不宜來發表評論我們要的我們做的就是如果是合法的程序進來的話那我們就依照法律的規定來順利的把選務很好所以當然現在呢\n\n02:02.293 --> 02:16.723\n我們也已經修法了修得非常完善了比較完善一點但是我還記得當時我做召委的時候在這邊修這個法的時候非常的遺憾民進黨的朋友們在這邊霸佔了主席台癱瘓了\n\n02:18.144 --> 02:42.427\n好久的議事規程但是最後終究我們在立法院還是刪讀通過了把這個選罷法給他比較完善的修法了那當時我們也看到民進黨的立法院的黨團吳思堯幹事長還沒修法之前他說選舉跟罷免都是憲法所保障的民主制度也是人民的基本權利\n\n02:43.548 --> 03:07.405\n任何政黨還有從政者都應該尊重然後蘇巧惠委員她也說她說這樣的行動呢深化了台灣的公民運動跟民主素養雖然我們現在回過頭來看根本少有所謂的公民運動所謂的公民者其實也就是政黨發動的大家也得看得非常的清楚\n\n03:07.905 --> 03:31.264\n那么我还想要再进一步的请问您您是否也认同吴思耀干事长跟苏巧慧委员说的只要他形式上符合了人民直接投票的参政权就是对民族有益对人民有好处的参与方式您认为怎么样您认同吗\n\n03:32.007 --> 03:47.342\n只要是按照法律的規定所提出的不管是選舉罷免或者是公民投票我們都依法必須要受理這也是我們最重要的核心願望謝謝您非常這樣子制式的回答\n\n03:48.203 --> 04:02.797\n那我雖然尊重您的看法也尊重吳思瑤委員跟蘇巧慧委員的看法但是呢我也必須要說按照你們的說法所謂形式上它符合人民直接投票的參政權\n\n04:03.838 --> 04:25.653\n就必然就是對民族有益那麼我就請大家不要雙標為什麼因為當時我在修選辦法70條71條73條的時候我主張原住民的立委只要是出缺他就必須要跟區域的立委是一樣的一旦出缺了他就必須要補選\n\n04:27.074 --> 04:40.511\n而當時我們的內政部他有展現善意他明確的回應我說原住民的立法委員跟區域的立委同屬立法委員但出缺的時候就必須要按照\n\n04:41.944 --> 05:09.807\n規定來相同內政不是同意的那麼中選會當時您告訴我說原住民的立法委員補選的時候這形同辦理全國性的選舉它需要花費大量的人力跟物力的等等的資源明白的講當時主委您的意思就是說當原住民的立委出缺的時候我們的族人要透過補選要選出適合的人選的時候\n\n05:10.988 --> 05:37.920\n您說太花錢不值得辦但是當民進黨他要推動耗資上億元的罷免案的時候你卻說你這個尊重立法院然後你也說這是深化民主值得鼓勵主委你不覺得這就是雙重標準嗎我更坦白的說這是歧視我們原住民參政權還是說當民進黨他要\n\n05:38.920 --> 05:48.904\n政治追殺的時候什麼都可以但是當原住民要求跟非原住民一樣的平等權利的時候民進黨的朋友們你們卻習慣選擇視而不見尤其是現在執政是民進黨\n\n05:55.000 --> 06:19.193\n在這裡我要嚴正的告訴也提醒族委民進黨對於我們族人的選舉權的歧視不是一天兩天的事因為這件事情我提了很久你們執政大概已經快九年了而這件事情呢我看在眼裡痛在心裡面\n\n06:19.833 --> 06:22.959\n大罷免花了這麼多錢原住民的補選沒有錢也沒有人力所以我認為這不是制度的問題這是政治的選擇問題您可不可以回答\n\n06:32.665 --> 06:57.690\n我已經把我內心的話說出來了另外我好不容易爭取到的優化原住民的選舉人領票作業事辦計畫的報告我其實就是為了要一次性解決長期存在我們族人選票誤發這個主委您很清楚我在這邊質詢了很多次族人選票誤發少發或者是沒有發的問題請問一下主委\n\n07:00.251 --> 07:08.792\n這項事辦計畫目前的執行進度到哪裡了您11月已經要離開你的位置了你必須清楚交代一下\n\n07:09.529 --> 07:31.220\n在我離開這個位置之前我們已經兩次一次在6月一次在9月兩次的要求各地選委會必須要針對這個專案要先進行一些準備的工作可是主委您知道嗎我看到的是114年的12月底你們才會跟地方召開會議\n\n07:32.541 --> 08:00.073\n然後這個會議裡面其實我們看不到細部的規劃也不知道你們要怎麼樣執行你們要如何來幫助族人來解決這個問題有一些前置的工作還是必須要先定案第一個就是投票的日期第二個就是投票所然後這兩個事情決定了我們還要去統計在我們事辦的區域裡面到底有多少的原住民的選民\n\n08:01.033 --> 08:20.344\n诸如此类的这个规划的工作都会在年初明年的年初我们选务的协调会的时候都会具体的来定定所以这件事情你会非常负责任的交代下去然后接任你的人必须要完成这项工作我已经交代过两次了\n\n08:21.525 --> 08:50.348\n已經交代過兩次所以我在這邊也公正的要求我們的中選會你們必須在一個月之內給我提出素面報告有兩項第一個請盡速提出原住民立委補選經費的精算跟通盤檢討的報告我們必須要讓社會清楚了解原住民的立法委員出區的時候補選我們到底會動用多少的財力還有多少的人力好嗎第二個\n\n08:51.021 --> 09:08.899\n必須要優化原住民選舉人領票作業事辦計畫這個計畫不僅僅適用在地方公職選舉更應該要全面擴大到中央層級的民代選舉我們必須要用制度化的方式來保障我們族人的選舉權跟平等的參政權\n\n09:11.982 --> 09:20.990\n這個領票優化徹底的方式就是說原住民的這個選舉人名稱是另外造成沒關係你一年內之內必須要正式的提書面報告給我可以嗎好沒問題好謝謝主委請保重身體\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.187,"end":28.564,"text":"謝謝郭主委美惠召委我們現在請中委會李主委主委您身體還好嗎還好您快退休了吧動了一個小手術所以看起來你行動好像今天有點不太像以前快退休了吧快到任了沒有退休金是借期借期"},{"start":30.314,"end":56.506,"text":"雖然您已經快屆期離開這個職位但是我覺得做一天和尚敲一天鐘該做的事情該負的責任還是得要完整的把它結束好嗎謝謝委員並且交接今天有幾個問題想要問您就是這次的大罷免案最終雖然是以失敗收場但是代價卻是我們全國的納稅的人民共同承擔的"},{"start":57.586,"end":75.553,"text":"你在9月2號的時候你也說一案的罷免的經費是1700萬到1800萬因為年度預算不夠所以必須要動用第二預備金所以總共這一次的罷免案是4億281.5萬元"},{"start":79.455,"end":97.334,"text":"而在人力方面呢 我們也動員了將近27萬的人力那麼我要再請教主委 到現在為止這種勞民又傷財的這個大罷免制度你覺得是值得鼓勵 值得推廣的嗎"},{"start":98.268,"end":103.029,"text":"這個牽涉到我先要講的是無差別的大罷免這牽涉到這個政治上的判斷我們選務機關是不宜來發表評論我們要的我們做的就是如果是合法的程序進來的話那我們就依照法律的規定來順利的把選務很好所以當然現在呢"},{"start":122.293,"end":136.723,"text":"我們也已經修法了修得非常完善了比較完善一點但是我還記得當時我做召委的時候在這邊修這個法的時候非常的遺憾民進黨的朋友們在這邊霸佔了主席台癱瘓了"},{"start":138.144,"end":162.427,"text":"好久的議事規程但是最後終究我們在立法院還是刪讀通過了把這個選罷法給他比較完善的修法了那當時我們也看到民進黨的立法院的黨團吳思堯幹事長還沒修法之前他說選舉跟罷免都是憲法所保障的民主制度也是人民的基本權利"},{"start":163.548,"end":187.405,"text":"任何政黨還有從政者都應該尊重然後蘇巧惠委員她也說她說這樣的行動呢深化了台灣的公民運動跟民主素養雖然我們現在回過頭來看根本少有所謂的公民運動所謂的公民者其實也就是政黨發動的大家也得看得非常的清楚"},{"start":187.905,"end":211.264,"text":"那么我还想要再进一步的请问您您是否也认同吴思耀干事长跟苏巧慧委员说的只要他形式上符合了人民直接投票的参政权就是对民族有益对人民有好处的参与方式您认为怎么样 您认同吗"},{"start":212.007,"end":227.342,"text":"只要是按照法律的規定所提出的不管是選舉罷免或者是公民投票我們都依法必須要受理這也是我們最重要的核心願望謝謝您非常這樣子制式的回答"},{"start":228.203,"end":242.797,"text":"那我雖然尊重您的看法也尊重吳思瑤委員跟蘇巧慧委員的看法但是呢我也必須要說按照你們的說法所謂形式上它符合人民直接投票的參政權"},{"start":243.838,"end":265.653,"text":"就必然就是對民族有益 那麼我就請大家不要雙標為什麼 因為當時我在修選辦法70條 71條 73條的時候我主張原住民的立委只要是出缺 他就必須要跟區域的立委是一樣的一旦出缺了 他就必須要補選"},{"start":267.074,"end":280.511,"text":"而當時我們的內政部他有展現善意他明確的回應我說原住民的立法委員跟區域的立委同屬立法委員但出缺的時候就必須要按照"},{"start":281.944,"end":309.807,"text":"規定來相同內政不是同意的那麼中選會當時您告訴我說原住民的立法委員補選的時候這形同辦理全國性的選舉它需要花費大量的人力跟物力的等等的資源明白的講當時主委您的意思就是說當原住民的立委出缺的時候我們的族人要透過補選要選出適合的人選的時候"},{"start":310.988,"end":337.92,"text":"您說太花錢不值得辦但是當民進黨他要推動耗資上億元的罷免案的時候你卻說你這個尊重立法院然後你也說這是深化民主值得鼓勵主委你不覺得這就是雙重標準嗎我更坦白的說這是歧視我們原住民參政權還是說當民進黨他要"},{"start":338.92,"end":348.904,"text":"政治追殺的時候什麼都可以但是當原住民要求跟非原住民一樣的平等權利的時候民進黨的朋友們你們卻習慣選擇視而不見尤其是現在執政是民進黨"},{"start":355,"end":379.193,"text":"在這裡我要嚴正的告訴也提醒族委民進黨對於我們族人的選舉權的歧視不是一天兩天的事因為這件事情我提了很久你們執政大概已經快九年了而這件事情呢我看在眼裡 痛在心裡面"},{"start":379.833,"end":382.959,"text":"大罷免花了這麼多錢原住民的補選沒有錢也沒有人力所以我認為這不是制度的問題這是政治的選擇問題您可不可以回答"},{"start":392.665,"end":417.69,"text":"我已經把我內心的話說出來了另外我好不容易爭取到的優化原住民的選舉人領票作業事辦計畫的報告我其實就是為了要一次性解決長期存在我們族人選票誤發這個主委您很清楚我在這邊質詢了很多次族人選票誤發少發或者是沒有發的問題請問一下主委"},{"start":420.251,"end":428.792,"text":"這項事辦計畫目前的執行進度到哪裡了您11月已經要離開你的位置了你必須清楚交代一下"},{"start":429.529,"end":451.22,"text":"在我離開這個位置之前我們已經兩次一次在6月一次在9月兩次的要求各地選委會必須要針對這個專案要先進行一些準備的工作可是主委您知道嗎我看到的是114年的12月底你們才會跟地方召開會議"},{"start":452.541,"end":480.073,"text":"然後這個會議裡面其實我們看不到細部的規劃也不知道你們要怎麼樣執行你們要如何來幫助族人來解決這個問題有一些前置的工作還是必須要先定案第一個就是投票的日期第二個就是投票所然後這兩個事情決定了我們還要去統計在我們事辦的區域裡面到底有多少的原住民的選民"},{"start":481.033,"end":500.344,"text":"诸如此类的这个规划的工作都会在年初明年的年初我们选务的协调会的时候都会具体的来定定所以这件事情你会非常负责任的交代下去然后接任你的人必须要完成这项工作我已经交代过两次了"},{"start":501.525,"end":530.348,"text":"已經交代過兩次所以我在這邊也公正的要求我們的中選會你們必須在一個月之內給我提出素面報告有兩項第一個請盡速提出原住民立委補選經費的精算跟通盤檢討的報告我們必須要讓社會清楚了解原住民的立法委員出區的時候補選我們到底會動用多少的財力還有多少的人力好嗎第二個"},{"start":531.021,"end":548.899,"text":"必須要優化原住民選舉人領票作業事辦計畫這個計畫不僅僅適用在地方公職選舉更應該要全面擴大到中央層級的民代選舉我們必須要用制度化的方式來保障我們族人的選舉權跟平等的參政權"},{"start":551.982,"end":560.99,"text":"這個領票優化徹底的方式就是說原住民的這個選舉人名稱是另外造成沒關係你一年內之內必須要正式的提書面報告給我可以嗎好沒問題好謝謝主委請保重身體"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":478,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（10時27分）謝謝可愛的美惠召委，我們現在請中選會李主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["高金委員素梅：主委您身體還好嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：還好，謝謝委員關心。"],["高金委員素梅：您快退休了吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：動了一個小手術。"],["高金委員素梅：所以看起來您今天的行動好像有一點不太像以前，快退休了吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：快到任了。"],["高金委員素梅：好，OK。"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有退休金，是屆期。"],["高金委員素梅：好，屆期。雖然您已經快屆期離開這個職位，但是我覺得做一天和尚敲一天鐘，該做的事情，該負的責任，還是得要完整的把它結束，好嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員。"],["高金委員素梅：並且交接。今天有幾個問題想要問您，這次的大罷免案最終雖然是以失敗收場，但是代價卻是我們全國納稅的人民共同承擔。在9月2號的時候你也說，一案的罷免經費是1,700萬到1,800萬，因為年度預算不夠，所以必須動用第二預備金，所以這一次的罷免案總共是4億281.5萬元，而在人力方面，我們也動員了將近27萬的人力。我要再請教主委，到現在為止，這種勞民又傷財的大罷免制度，你覺得是值得鼓勵、值得推廣的嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：這個牽涉到政治上……"],["高金委員素梅：我現在要講的是無差別的大罷免。"],["李主任委員進勇：這牽涉到政治上的判斷，我們選務機關是不宜來發表評論，我們做的就是如果是合法程序進來的話，我們就依照法律的規定順利的把選務完成。"],["高金委員素梅：很好，現在我們也已經修法了，修得非常完善了，比較完善一點，但是我還記得當時我做召委在這邊修這個法的時候，非常的遺憾，民進黨的朋友們在這邊霸占了主席臺，癱瘓了好久的議事規程，但是最後終究我們在立法院還是三讀通過了，把這個選罷法比較完善的修法了。","當時我們也看到民進黨的立法院黨團吳思瑤幹事長，還沒修法之前他說，選舉跟罷免都是憲法所保障的民主制度，也是人民的基本權利，任何政黨還有從政者都應該尊重。然後蘇巧慧委員他也說，他說這樣的行動深化了臺灣的公民運動跟民主素養。雖然我們現在回過頭來看，根本少有所謂的公民運動，所謂的公民者，其實也就是政黨發動的，大家也看得非常清楚，那麼我還想要再進一步的請問您，您是否也認同吳思瑤幹事長跟蘇巧慧委員說的，只要它形式上符合了人民直接投票的參政權，就是對民主有益、對人民有好處的參與方式，您認為怎麼樣？您認同嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：只要是按照法律的規定所提出的，不管是選舉、罷免或者是公民投票，我們都依法必須要受理，這也是我們最重要的核心業務。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝您非常制式的回答。我雖然尊重您的看法，也尊重吳思瑤委員跟蘇巧慧委員的看法，但是我也必須要說，按照你們的說法，所謂形式上它符合人民直接投票的參政權就必然對民主有益，那麼我就請大家不要雙標，為什麼？因為當時我在修選罷法第七十條、第七十一條、第七十三條的時候，我主張原住民的立委只要是出缺，他就必須要跟區域的立委是一樣的，一旦出缺了就必須要補選，而當時我們的內政部也有展現善意，他明確的回應我說，原住民的立法委員跟區域的立委同屬立法委員，但出缺的時候，必須要按照相同的規定來辦理，內政部是同意的。那麼中選會當時您告訴我說，原住民立法委員補選的時候，這形同辦理全國性的選舉，它需要花費大量的人力跟物力等等的資源。明白地講，當時主委您的意思就是說，當原住民的立委出缺的時候，我們的族人要透過補選選出適合人選的時候，您說太花錢，不值得辦。但是當民進黨他要推動耗資上億元罷免案的時候，你卻說你尊重立法院，然後你也說這是深化民主，值得鼓勵，主委，你不覺得這就是雙重標準嗎？我更坦白地說，這是歧視我們原住民參政權，還是說當民進黨他要政治追殺的時候什麼都可以，但是當原住民要求跟非原住民一樣的平等權利的時候，民進黨的朋友們，你們卻習慣選擇視而不見，尤其是現在執政是民進黨，在這裡我要嚴正……"],["李主任委員進勇：剛剛……"],["高金委員素梅：等一下，我要嚴正地告訴也提醒主委，民進黨對於我們族人的選舉權的歧視，不是一天兩天的事，因為這件事情我提了很久，你們執政也已經快9年了，而這件事情我看在眼裡，痛在心裡面，大罷免花了這麼多錢，原住民的補選沒有錢，也沒有人力，所以我認為這不是制度的問題，這是政治的選擇問題，您可以不要回答，我已經把我內心的話說出來了。","另外，我好不容易爭取到的優化原住民的選舉人領票作業試辦計畫的報告，我其實就是為了要一次性解決長期存在我們族人選票誤發，這個主委你很清楚，我在這邊質詢了很多次，族人選票誤發、少發或是沒有發的問題，請問一下主委，這項試辦計畫，目前的執行進度到哪裡了？您11月已經要離開你的位置了，你必須清楚交代一下。"],["李主任委員進勇：在我離開這個位置之前，我們已經兩次，一次在6月，一次在9月，兩次要求各地選委會必須要針對這個專案先進行一些準備的工作。"],["高金委員素梅：可是主委您知道嗎？我看到的是114年12月底你們才會跟地方召開會議，這個會議裡面其實我們看不到細部的規劃，也不知道你們要怎麼樣執行，你們要如何來幫助族人解決這個問題？"],["李主任委員進勇：有一些前置的工作還是必須要先定案，第一個是投票日期；第二個是投票所，這兩個事情決定了，我們還要去統計在我們試辦的區域裡面到底有多少原住民選民，諸如此類的規劃工作都會在明年年初我們選務協調會的時候具體地來訂定，要求各地方……"],["高金委員素梅：所以這件事情您會非常負責任地交代下去，然後接任你的人必須要完成這項工作。"],["李主任委員進勇：我已經交代過兩次了。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝，所以我在這邊也嚴正地、公正地要求中選會，你們必須在一個月之內提出書面報告給我，有兩項：第一個，請儘速提出原住民立委補選經費的精算和通盤檢討的報告，我們必須要讓社會清楚了解原住民的立法委員出缺時的補選，到底會動用多少的財力，還有多少的人力，好嗎？第二個，必須要優化原住民選舉人領票作業試辦計畫，這個計畫不僅僅適用在地方公職選舉，更應該要全面擴大到中央層級的民代選舉，我們必須要用制度化的方式來保障我們族人的選舉權和平等的參政權，可以嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：領票優化澈底的方式就是原住民的選舉人名冊是另外造冊的，另外造冊必須要跟內政部……"],["高金委員素梅：沒關係，你一個月之內必須要正式地提出書面報告給我，可以嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：好，沒問題。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝主委，請保重身體。"],["主席：謝謝高金素梅委員的質詢。","接下來請李柏毅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":206,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-2","speakers":["王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃捷","高金素梅","李柏毅","黃建賓","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","洪孟楷","林德福","吳琪銘","丁學忠"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1147901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147901_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況（含上會期臨時提案辦理情形），並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147901_00010"}}}