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{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 150.382, \"end\": 150.482, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"增\", \"start\": 150.482, \"end\": 150.622, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 150.622, \"end\": 150.762, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.762, \"end\": 150.803, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 150.803, \"end\": 150.823, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 152.134, \"end\": 171.693, \"text\": \"財發法地方的這個配額那是另外計算那個沒有算在這個三兆裡面當然今天你有三兆了跟去年相比其實差不多但去年我想各城市的捷運並沒有被砍這麼多這第一個部分第二個部分鐵道局是我們這個捷運的主管機關嘛鐵道局自己今年度明年度跟今年度相比也增加了143億\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 152.134, \"end\": 152.995, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 152.995, \"end\": 153.155, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 153.155, \"end\": 153.355, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 153.355, \"end\": 153.936, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"配\", \"start\": 153.936, \"end\": 154.236, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 603.971, \"end\": 604.091, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 604.091, \"end\": 604.111, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 604.111, \"end\": 604.131, \"score\": 0.002}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,085\n好謝謝主席我們請交通部陳部長請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,397 --> 00:00:33,504\n部長一開始當然還是要跟你討論一下我們終結捷運藍線被砍了96%過去本來承諾今年明年度的預算應該是42億那現在明年只剩下1.68億那當然各城市包含台北跟高雄它的減幅也都蠻高的其他城市在70%76%那台中這個是減幅高了96%\n\n3\n00:00:37,105 --> 00:01:05,430\n那我們今天在這邊提出來的時候問說那問一下部長那接下來怎麼辦會後續都長這樣子嗎那為什麼會發生這樣子好報告委員首先先回答您的問題的最後一個問題為什麼會發生這樣的事情因為裁劃法因為立法院通過了裁劃法的這個裁劃法的裁員分配所以造成整個交通部當時能夠協助地方的這個建設尤其在捷運建設的補助款大幅的減少這是第一個\n\n4\n00:01:06,070 --> 00:01:33,148\n那第二個呢台中我們當時也沒有答應說要補42億這都在審議的過程只不過最後行政院那邊審議下來的金額是1.68億這是行政院那邊審下來的金額最後審下來所以從來沒有答應過42億這件事那我先爭那最後總額啦如果你說你就年度沒辦法一次給42如果沒有承諾說命將給42億那總額按照本來的分配大概大約是一人一半嘛\n\n5\n00:01:33,768 --> 00:02:00,114\n這個我們還在估算當中因為未來的財化法之後的財政狀況會非常不一樣一年增加了接近三千億的三百億的預算所以本來承諾的大約一人一半的這個金額到後面還是可能有變動你是這個意思嗎我認為這個變動的機率相當的高因為中央已經沒有這麼多的預算可以支應地方應辦的捷運事項來部長我們看下一頁當然部長您針對交通部分但是我們看整體的年度預算\n\n6\n00:02:00,894 --> 00:02:22,107\n院長昨天行政院長昨天在這個總諮詢的時候有回應其他委員講說明年總預算中央編列的是三兆零三百五十億跟今年含最佳預算用包含前面三預算後來最佳預算等等的最後比起來他的規模一樣三兆一些比去年增加了二十二億喔對你的總預算你的年度國家總預算是增加的增加二十二億\n\n7\n00:02:23,007 --> 00:02:30,823\n然後你今天部長你跟我說因為行政院覺得說財化法所以把台中的或各城市的捷運軌道建設砍掉但是你總計算你是增加的啊\n\n8\n00:02:32,134 --> 00:02:51,693\n財發法地方的這個配額那是另外計算那個沒有算在這個三兆裡面當然今天你有三兆了跟去年相比其實差不多但去年我想各城市的捷運並沒有被砍這麼多這第一個部分第二個部分鐵道局是我們這個捷運的主管機關嘛鐵道局自己今年度明年度跟今年度相比也增加了143億\n\n9\n00:02:53,786 --> 00:03:10,872\n最近鐵道也增加到我決心被砍為什麼發生這種事情這不合理嘛這個配置是不合理的吧兩個部分第一個部分是國家應該要做的事情其實也增加了不少尤其是在大院通過了很多的預算案或者是要增加預算的案子其實很多那個今天這邊我簡單帶過那個東西很多都沒有編進來嘛\n\n10\n00:03:14,593 --> 00:03:40,505\n有些什麼經費有些那個是大院要討論的但是我們說針對很多大院討論完之後增加了不少預算再來我們國家也確實增加了很多的項目在做這是第一點那第二點為什麼鐵道局的預算增加跟委員報告在今年在明年跟後年會是整個交通建設的工程預算的高峰期明年跟後年我舉一個例子跟委員報告\n\n11\n00:03:42,106 --> 00:03:59,506\n包含我們自己的自己要辦的工程以外地方的捷運的需求地方捷運需求本來想要協助地方的在明年會有399億的需求明年實際上有399億的需求但後年成長到1000億的需求\n\n12\n00:04:00,387 --> 00:04:22,497\n大後年會有八百億大大後年也是八百億也就是說這個是一個抖身的狀態真正的需求是一個抖身的狀態但是在現在的狀況是我們自己遇到了財化法的狀況底下我們自己鐵道局有很多的建設正在進行當中包含桃園的鐵路地下化包含台南的鐵路地下化\n\n13\n00:04:23,217 --> 00:04:47,626\n包含花東雙軌電氣化等等的工程我們都在進行當中也就是說我們自己工程的高峰期我們遇到了在街上加上地方的這個捷運的需求的高峰期也遇到了兩個高峰都一起遇到所以當然會供不應求我們的預算當然會不足部長沒關係我是要跟你講說今天你是交通部部長那我們希望說在中央政府總預算一樣三兆的規模之下\n\n14\n00:04:48,902 --> 00:05:05,304\n本來大家期待的因為就像我之前講過跟你私下大家討論的時候也講過嘛今天既然這個捷運建設是要經過中央審議的那你們既然有權大家有責嘛把我們後續要把它完成嘛你不能說最後前面都審都是你們審然後金額分配就談好了然後現在\n\n15\n00:05:06,929 --> 00:05:22,437\n過了之後總預算並沒有變少然後鐵道局預算也增加的情況下面結果把錢打走的不是看總預算的狀況是要看真正的需求我們工程在進行的需求我想民眾這種交通建設是硬體建設這種資本門建設大家都一定有這個需求所以我們希望說這幾年是高峰期\n\n16\n00:05:23,677 --> 00:05:50,696\n所以後續到底台中市的捷運或各城市的捷運的經費會不會變動還未定又怎樣報告委員我跟您報告台中市要蓋捷運其實好簡單決定權在盧市長的手上他增加的統籌分配款只要拿出七分之一就夠他所說的這個四十二億的需求那是一年度嘛那整條捷運蓋起來一兩千億啊這一條而已啊如果假設未來的十年台中市增加的預算接近三千億他要蓋這一條捷運絕對沒問題\n\n17\n00:05:52,737 --> 00:06:10,380\n是市長的決定所以你現在說中央在這部分的話可能後續在報告委員分配比例上面有多少錢我們會做多少事有多少錢我們就會全部拿出來幫助地方來做捷運所以我今天講嘛今天總預算第一個總預算是沒有減少第二個\n\n18\n00:06:11,341 --> 00:06:37,192\n鐵道局在整體的編列上是增加的事就以按照這個至少明年度的預算來講是增加的那是需求增加所以我們希望說交通部你們在行政院裡面但是你們行政部門的事情你們行政院裡面在這個排序上面應該要去多增加這種硬體建設的錢而不是報告委員有啦我們有增加但是要以我們自己的工程為優先因為要有個觀念捷運是地方興建\n\n19\n00:06:38,112 --> 00:06:57,429\n中央有能力的時候協助所以主要的責任是在地方他要不要做地方自己決定中央有餘裕的時候一定會幫忙但是當我的力氣減少或者是我的資源減少的時候能幫的力道必然就減少部長如果這樣說那我們希望未來捷運的這個整合這個中央的進度\n\n20\n00:06:58,450 --> 00:07:24,980\n就可以稍微快一點了如果這樣錢跟市要一起嗎其實我也這麼認為好OK那這樣有共識如果這樣的話我們以後如果台中市或各地方政府要自己出錢的部分那我們希望中央審核能夠加速好不好好那接下來討論一下那個高鐵的這個鄰近車廂的問題我想幾個鄰近車廂當然是軟體的部分大家服務或是勸導等等我們希望說大家能夠互相尊重那你看硬體的部分我覺得這是有點有趣\n\n21\n00:07:27,497 --> 00:07:33,484\n從十年前到現在大家都不斷強調希望高鐵的訊號能夠增強讓收訊能夠更好電話更好打看影片更順暢\n\n22\n00:07:34,912 --> 00:07:59,461\n我們把硬體做好了或是說我們努力去把硬體改善改善完之後然後現在跟大家說我們要寧靜車廂好當然我覺得我是個人是寧靜車廂這樣的政策喔可是我說那這個收訊的部分有沒有必要再花這麼多經費去增強因為這是一個相悖的概念嘛我今天把訊號增強讓大家能夠更方便的打電話更方便的收看影片那會不會導致說更多人在高野上使用這個手機訊號的這個問題這個不覺得這個政策有點矛盾嗎\n\n23\n00:08:05,308 --> 00:08:22,034\n謝謝委員的關心我想兩者並不完全矛盾因為有好的訊號大家可以事實上方便使用3C產品但是是戴耳機所以它是同時是共存的可以產生win-win的效果而且我們事實上並沒有禁止打電話我們只是希望打電話的時候都要選官\n\n24\n00:08:22,614 --> 00:08:42,980\n好我因為在這個寧靜車廂的這個相關規範裡面我想比較明確的幾個要求當然希望大家假天會要去這個玄關講然後看影片要用耳機就是寧靜車廂幾個規範明確的幾個是針對3C產品的使用因為3C產品當然就包含到訊號的部分那所以我覺得這部分我覺得可以再討論就到底要不要把它\n\n25\n00:08:43,780 --> 00:09:01,730\n因為你說今天又要再推這個貧困要增強到8倍讓整個高鐵的收視率更強這是6月25號的新聞有這樣的一個狀況我覺得這個可以再討論一下錢要不要花在這個地方還是說現有這個狀況我基本上正常在使用我們的LINE我們的文字訊息在高鐵上基本上是堪用的\n\n26\n00:09:02,430 --> 00:09:17,571\n但是你要視訊你要看影片你要講電話當然有些地方會收訊不太好所以我覺得這個在討論寧靜車廂的時候我們希望大家不要去干擾到別人的時候是不是在這個硬體上面我覺得這個權能要稍微拿捏一下好不好再來就是說這個\n\n27\n00:09:19,193 --> 00:09:47,831\n死案的部分因為董事長就之前這個針對小孩哭鬧的部分你們說要祭出這個怪怪來伺候就可能會給一些零食餅乾但是我知道說我們針對這個WHO等等的一些組織針對小朋友他們吃的東西其實很多家長自己也是有些想法就是說我們給他吃有糖的或是太多人工添加物的餅乾對這個小孩子的有些家長包括我自己個人在內我是很在意這個事情的所以我覺得在如果真的要做這個事情\n\n28\n00:09:48,371 --> 00:10:04,131\n要做配套措施因為其實真的高磊一開始推動是希望大家全家出遊能夠多利用大宗藝術那也有小朋友的存在所以在食安上面我們是不是應該要重新的去思考一下這個東西怎麼處理好那我想我們會來來做晚飯的來思考謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3120\t5085\t好謝謝主席我們請交通部陳部長請陳部長\n15397\t33504\t部長一開始當然還是要跟你討論一下我們終結捷運藍線被砍了96%過去本來承諾今年明年度的預算應該是42億那現在明年只剩下1.68億那當然各城市包含台北跟高雄它的減幅也都蠻高的其他城市在70% 76%那台中這個是減幅高了96%\n37105\t65430\t那我們今天在這邊提出來的時候問說那問一下部長那接下來怎麼辦會後續都長這樣子嗎那為什麼會發生這樣子好報告委員首先先回答您的問題的最後一個問題為什麼會發生這樣的事情因為裁劃法因為立法院通過了裁劃法的這個裁劃法的裁員分配所以造成整個交通部當時能夠協助地方的這個建設尤其在捷運建設的補助款大幅的減少這是第一個\n66070\t93148\t那第二個呢台中我們當時也沒有答應說要補42億這都在審議的過程只不過最後行政院那邊審議下來的金額是1.68億這是行政院那邊審下來的金額最後審下來所以從來沒有答應過42億這件事那我先爭那最後總額啦如果你說你就年度沒辦法一次給42如果沒有承諾說命將給42億那總額按照本來的分配大概大約是一人一半嘛\n93768\t120114\t這個我們還在估算當中因為未來的財化法之後的財政狀況會非常不一樣一年增加了接近三千億的三百億的預算所以本來承諾的大約一人一半的這個金額到後面還是可能有變動你是這個意思嗎我認為這個變動的機率相當的高因為中央已經沒有這麼多的預算可以支應地方應辦的捷運事項來 部長我們看下一頁當然部長您針對交通部分但是我們看整體的年度預算\n120894\t142107\t院長昨天行政院長昨天在這個總諮詢的時候有回應其他委員講說明年總預算中央編列的是三兆零三百五十億跟今年含最佳預算用包含前面三預算後來最佳預算等等的最後比起來他的規模一樣三兆一些比去年增加了二十二億喔對你的總預算你的年度國家總預算是增加的增加二十二億\n143007\t150823\t然後你今天部長你跟我說因為行政院覺得說財化法所以把台中的或各城市的捷運軌道建設砍掉但是你總計算你是增加的啊\n152134\t171693\t財發法地方的這個配額那是另外計算那個沒有算在這個三兆裡面當然今天你有三兆了跟去年相比其實差不多但去年我想各城市的捷運並沒有被砍這麼多這第一個部分第二個部分鐵道局是我們這個捷運的主管機關嘛鐵道局自己今年度明年度跟今年度相比也增加了143億\n173786\t190872\t最近鐵道也增加到我決心被砍為什麼發生這種事情這不合理嘛這個配置是不合理的吧兩個部分第一個部分是國家應該要做的事情其實也增加了不少尤其是在大院通過了很多的預算案或者是要增加預算的案子其實很多那個今天這邊我簡單帶過那個東西很多都沒有編進來嘛\n194593\t220505\t有些什麼經費有些那個是大院要討論的但是我們說針對 很多大院討論完之後增加了不少預算再來我們國家也確實增加了很多的項目在做這是第一點那第二點為什麼鐵道局的預算增加跟委員報告在今年在明年跟後年會是整個交通建設的工程預算的高峰期明年跟後年我舉一個例子跟委員報告\n222106\t239506\t包含我們自己的自己要辦的工程以外地方的捷運的需求地方捷運需求本來想要協助地方的在明年會有399億的需求明年實際上有399億的需求但後年成長到1000億的需求\n240387\t262497\t大後年會有八百億大大後年也是八百億也就是說這個是一個抖身的狀態真正的需求是一個抖身的狀態但是在現在的狀況是我們自己遇到了財化法的狀況底下我們自己鐵道局有很多的建設正在進行當中包含桃園的鐵路地下化包含台南的鐵路地下化\n263217\t287626\t包含花東雙軌電氣化等等的工程我們都在進行當中也就是說我們自己工程的高峰期我們遇到了在街上加上地方的這個捷運的需求的高峰期也遇到了兩個高峰都一起遇到所以當然會供不應求我們的預算當然會不足部長沒關係我是要跟你講說今天你是交通部部長那我們希望說在中央政府總預算一樣三兆的規模之下\n288902\t305304\t本來大家期待的因為就像我之前講過跟你私下大家討論的時候也講過嘛今天既然這個捷運建設是要經過中央審議的那你們既然有權大家有責嘛把我們後續要把它完成嘛你不能說最後前面都審都是你們審然後金額分配就談好了然後現在\n306929\t322437\t過了之後總預算並沒有變少然後鐵道局預算也增加的情況下面結果把錢打走的不是看總預算的狀況是要看真正的需求我們工程在進行的需求我想民眾這種交通建設是硬體建設這種資本門建設大家都一定有這個需求所以我們希望說這幾年是高峰期\n323677\t350696\t所以後續到底台中市的捷運或各城市的捷運的經費會不會變動還未定又怎樣報告委員我跟您報告台中市要蓋捷運其實好簡單決定權在盧市長的手上他增加的統籌分配款只要拿出七分之一就夠他所說的這個四十二億的需求那是一年度嘛那整條捷運蓋起來一兩千億啊這一條而已啊如果假設未來的十年台中市增加的預算接近三千億他要蓋這一條捷運絕對沒問題\n352737\t370380\t是市長的決定所以你現在說中央在這部分的話可能後續在報告委員分配比例上面有多少錢我們會做多少事有多少錢我們就會全部拿出來幫助地方來做捷運所以我今天講嘛今天總預算第一個總預算是沒有減少第二個\n371341\t397192\t鐵道局在整體的編列上是增加的事就以按照這個至少明年度的預算來講是增加的那是需求增加所以我們希望說交通部你們在行政院裡面但是你們行政部門的事情你們行政院裡面在這個排序上面應該要去多增加這種硬體建設的錢而不是報告委員有啦我們有增加但是要以我們自己的工程為優先因為要有個觀念捷運是地方興建\n398112\t417429\t中央有能力的時候協助所以主要的責任是在地方他要不要做地方自己決定中央有餘裕的時候一定會幫忙但是當我的力氣減少或者是我的資源減少的時候能幫的力道必然就減少部長如果這樣說那我們希望未來捷運的這個整合這個中央的進度\n418450\t444980\t就可以稍微快一點了如果這樣錢跟市要一起嗎其實我也這麼認為好OK那這樣有共識如果這樣的話我們以後如果台中市或各地方政府要自己出錢的部分那我們希望中央審核能夠加速好不好好那接下來討論一下那個高鐵的這個鄰近車廂的問題我想幾個鄰近車廂當然是軟體的部分大家服務或是勸導等等我們希望說大家能夠互相尊重那你看硬體的部分我覺得這是有點有趣\n447497\t453484\t從十年前到現在大家都不斷強調希望高鐵的訊號能夠增強讓收訊能夠更好電話更好打 看影片更順暢\n454912\t479461\t我們把硬體做好了或是說我們努力去把硬體改善改善完之後然後現在跟大家說我們要寧靜車廂好當然我覺得我是個人是寧靜車廂這樣的政策喔可是我說那這個收訊的部分有沒有必要再花這麼多經費去增強因為這是一個相悖的概念嘛我今天把訊號增強讓大家能夠更方便的打電話更方便的收看影片那會不會導致說更多人在高野上使用這個手機訊號的這個問題這個不覺得這個政策有點矛盾嗎\n485308\t502034\t謝謝委員的關心我想兩者並不完全矛盾因為有好的訊號大家可以事實上方便使用3C產品但是是戴耳機所以它是同時是共存的可以產生win-win的效果而且我們事實上並沒有禁止打電話我們只是希望打電話的時候都要選官\n502614\t522980\t好 我因為在這個寧靜車廂的這個相關規範裡面我想比較明確的幾個要求當然希望大家假天會要去這個玄關講然後看影片要用耳機就是寧靜車廂幾個規範明確的幾個是針對3C產品的使用因為3C產品當然就包含到訊號的部分那所以我覺得這部分我覺得可以再討論就到底要不要把它\n523780\t541730\t因為你說今天又要再推這個貧困要增強到8倍讓整個高鐵的收視率更強這是6月25號的新聞有這樣的一個狀況我覺得這個可以再討論一下錢要不要花在這個地方還是說現有這個狀況我基本上正常在使用我們的LINE我們的文字訊息在高鐵上基本上是堪用的\n542430\t557571\t但是你要視訊你要看影片你要講電話當然有些地方會收訊不太好所以我覺得這個在討論寧靜車廂的時候我們希望大家不要去干擾到別人的時候是不是在這個硬體上面我覺得這個權能要稍微拿捏一下好不好再來就是說這個\n559193\t587831\t死案的部分因為董事長就之前這個針對小孩哭鬧的部分你們說要祭出這個怪怪來伺候就可能會給一些零食餅乾但是我知道說我們針對這個WHO等等的一些組織針對小朋友他們吃的東西其實很多家長自己也是有些想法就是說我們給他吃有糖的或是太多人工添加物的餅乾對這個小孩子的有些家長包括我自己個人在內我是很在意這個事情的所以我覺得在如果真的要做這個事情\n588371\t604131\t要做配套措施因為其實真的高磊一開始推動是希望大家全家出遊能夠多利用大宗藝術那也有小朋友的存在所以在食安上面我們是不是應該要重新的去思考一下這個東西怎麼處理好 那我想我們會來來做晚飯的來思考 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝委員好\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們請交通部陳部長請陳部長\n部長一開始當然還是要跟你討論一下我們終結捷運藍線被砍了96%過去本來承諾今年明年度的預算應該是42億那現在明年只剩下1.68億那當然各城市包含台北跟高雄它的減幅也都蠻高的其他城市在70% 76%那台中這個是減幅高了96%\n那我們今天在這邊提出來的時候問說那問一下部長那接下來怎麼辦會後續都長這樣子嗎那為什麼會發生這樣子好報告委員首先先回答您的問題的最後一個問題為什麼會發生這樣的事情因為裁劃法因為立法院通過了裁劃法的這個裁劃法的裁員分配所以造成整個交通部當時能夠協助地方的這個建設尤其在捷運建設的補助款大幅的減少這是第一個\n那第二個呢台中我們當時也沒有答應說要補42億這都在審議的過程只不過最後行政院那邊審議下來的金額是1.68億這是行政院那邊審下來的金額最後審下來所以從來沒有答應過42億這件事那我先爭那最後總額啦如果你說你就年度沒辦法一次給42如果沒有承諾說命將給42億那總額按照本來的分配大概大約是一人一半嘛\n這個我們還在估算當中因為未來的財化法之後的財政狀況會非常不一樣一年增加了接近三千億的三百億的預算所以本來承諾的大約一人一半的這個金額到後面還是可能有變動你是這個意思嗎我認為這個變動的機率相當的高因為中央已經沒有這麼多的預算可以支應地方應辦的捷運事項來 部長我們看下一頁當然部長您針對交通部分但是我們看整體的年度預算\n院長昨天行政院長昨天在這個總諮詢的時候有回應其他委員講說明年總預算中央編列的是三兆零三百五十億跟今年含最佳預算用包含前面三預算後來最佳預算等等的最後比起來他的規模一樣三兆一些比去年增加了二十二億喔對你的總預算你的年度國家總預算是增加的增加二十二億\n然後你今天部長你跟我說因為行政院覺得說財化法所以把台中的或各城市的捷運軌道建設砍掉但是你總計算你是增加的啊\n財發法地方的這個配額那是另外計算那個沒有算在這個三兆裡面當然今天你有三兆了跟去年相比其實差不多但去年我想各城市的捷運並沒有被砍這麼多這第一個部分第二個部分鐵道局是我們這個捷運的主管機關嘛鐵道局自己今年度明年度跟今年度相比也增加了143億\n最近鐵道也增加到我決心被砍為什麼發生這種事情這不合理嘛這個配置是不合理的吧兩個部分第一個部分是國家應該要做的事情其實也增加了不少尤其是在大院通過了很多的預算案或者是要增加預算的案子其實很多那個今天這邊我簡單帶過那個東西很多都沒有編進來嘛\n有些什麼經費有些那個是大院要討論的但是我們說針對 很多大院討論完之後增加了不少預算再來我們國家也確實增加了很多的項目在做這是第一點那第二點為什麼鐵道局的預算增加跟委員報告在今年在明年跟後年會是整個交通建設的工程預算的高峰期明年跟後年我舉一個例子跟委員報告\n包含我們自己的自己要辦的工程以外地方的捷運的需求地方捷運需求本來想要協助地方的在明年會有399億的需求明年實際上有399億的需求但後年成長到1000億的需求\n大後年會有八百億大大後年也是八百億也就是說這個是一個抖身的狀態真正的需求是一個抖身的狀態但是在現在的狀況是我們自己遇到了財化法的狀況底下我們自己鐵道局有很多的建設正在進行當中包含桃園的鐵路地下化包含台南的鐵路地下化\n包含花東雙軌電氣化等等的工程我們都在進行當中也就是說我們自己工程的高峰期我們遇到了在街上加上地方的這個捷運的需求的高峰期也遇到了兩個高峰都一起遇到所以當然會供不應求我們的預算當然會不足部長沒關係我是要跟你講說今天你是交通部部長那我們希望說在中央政府總預算一樣三兆的規模之下\n本來大家期待的因為就像我之前講過跟你私下大家討論的時候也講過嘛今天既然這個捷運建設是要經過中央審議的那你們既然有權大家有責嘛把我們後續要把它完成嘛你不能說最後前面都審都是你們審然後金額分配就談好了然後現在\n過了之後總預算並沒有變少然後鐵道局預算也增加的情況下面結果把錢打走的不是看總預算的狀況是要看真正的需求我們工程在進行的需求我想民眾這種交通建設是硬體建設這種資本門建設大家都一定有這個需求所以我們希望說這幾年是高峰期\n所以後續到底台中市的捷運或各城市的捷運的經費會不會變動還未定又怎樣報告委員我跟您報告台中市要蓋捷運其實好簡單決定權在盧市長的手上他增加的統籌分配款只要拿出七分之一就夠他所說的這個四十二億的需求那是一年度嘛那整條捷運蓋起來一兩千億啊這一條而已啊如果假設未來的十年台中市增加的預算接近三千億他要蓋這一條捷運絕對沒問題\n是市長的決定所以你現在說中央在這部分的話可能後續在報告委員分配比例上面有多少錢我們會做多少事有多少錢我們就會全部拿出來幫助地方來做捷運所以我今天講嘛今天總預算第一個總預算是沒有減少第二個\n鐵道局在整體的編列上是增加的事就以按照這個至少明年度的預算來講是增加的那是需求增加所以我們希望說交通部你們在行政院裡面但是你們行政部門的事情你們行政院裡面在這個排序上面應該要去多增加這種硬體建設的錢而不是報告委員有啦我們有增加但是要以我們自己的工程為優先因為要有個觀念捷運是地方興建\n中央有能力的時候協助所以主要的責任是在地方他要不要做地方自己決定中央有餘裕的時候一定會幫忙但是當我的力氣減少或者是我的資源減少的時候能幫的力道必然就減少部長如果這樣說那我們希望未來捷運的這個整合這個中央的進度\n就可以稍微快一點了如果這樣錢跟市要一起嗎其實我也這麼認為好OK那這樣有共識如果這樣的話我們以後如果台中市或各地方政府要自己出錢的部分那我們希望中央審核能夠加速好不好好那接下來討論一下那個高鐵的這個鄰近車廂的問題我想幾個鄰近車廂當然是軟體的部分大家服務或是勸導等等我們希望說大家能夠互相尊重那你看硬體的部分我覺得這是有點有趣\n從十年前到現在大家都不斷強調希望高鐵的訊號能夠增強讓收訊能夠更好電話更好打 看影片更順暢\n我們把硬體做好了或是說我們努力去把硬體改善改善完之後然後現在跟大家說我們要寧靜車廂好當然我覺得我是個人是寧靜車廂這樣的政策喔可是我說那這個收訊的部分有沒有必要再花這麼多經費去增強因為這是一個相悖的概念嘛我今天把訊號增強讓大家能夠更方便的打電話更方便的收看影片那會不會導致說更多人在高野上使用這個手機訊號的這個問題這個不覺得這個政策有點矛盾嗎\n謝謝委員的關心我想兩者並不完全矛盾因為有好的訊號大家可以事實上方便使用3C產品但是是戴耳機所以它是同時是共存的可以產生win-win的效果而且我們事實上並沒有禁止打電話我們只是希望打電話的時候都要選官\n好 我因為在這個寧靜車廂的這個相關規範裡面我想比較明確的幾個要求當然希望大家假天會要去這個玄關講然後看影片要用耳機就是寧靜車廂幾個規範明確的幾個是針對3C產品的使用因為3C產品當然就包含到訊號的部分那所以我覺得這部分我覺得可以再討論就到底要不要把它\n因為你說今天又要再推這個貧困要增強到8倍讓整個高鐵的收視率更強這是6月25號的新聞有這樣的一個狀況我覺得這個可以再討論一下錢要不要花在這個地方還是說現有這個狀況我基本上正常在使用我們的LINE我們的文字訊息在高鐵上基本上是堪用的\n但是你要視訊你要看影片你要講電話當然有些地方會收訊不太好所以我覺得這個在討論寧靜車廂的時候我們希望大家不要去干擾到別人的時候是不是在這個硬體上面我覺得這個權能要稍微拿捏一下好不好再來就是說這個\n死案的部分因為董事長就之前這個針對小孩哭鬧的部分你們說要祭出這個怪怪來伺候就可能會給一些零食餅乾但是我知道說我們針對這個WHO等等的一些組織針對小朋友他們吃的東西其實很多家長自己也是有些想法就是說我們給他吃有糖的或是太多人工添加物的餅乾對這個小孩子的有些家長包括我自己個人在內我是很在意這個事情的所以我覺得在如果真的要做這個事情\n要做配套措施因為其實真的高磊一開始推動是希望大家全家出遊能夠多利用大宗藝術那也有小朋友的存在所以在食安上面我們是不是應該要重新的去思考一下這個東西怎麼處理好 那我想我們會來來做晚飯的來思考 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝委員好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.120 --> 00:05.085\n好謝謝主席我們請交通部陳部長請陳部長\n\n00:15.397 --> 00:33.504\n部長一開始當然還是要跟你討論一下我們終結捷運藍線被砍了96%過去本來承諾今年明年度的預算應該是42億那現在明年只剩下1.68億那當然各城市包含台北跟高雄它的減幅也都蠻高的其他城市在70%76%那台中這個是減幅高了96%\n\n00:37.105 --> 01:05.430\n那我們今天在這邊提出來的時候問說那問一下部長那接下來怎麼辦會後續都長這樣子嗎那為什麼會發生這樣子好報告委員首先先回答您的問題的最後一個問題為什麼會發生這樣的事情因為裁劃法因為立法院通過了裁劃法的這個裁劃法的裁員分配所以造成整個交通部當時能夠協助地方的這個建設尤其在捷運建設的補助款大幅的減少這是第一個\n\n01:06.070 --> 01:33.148\n那第二個呢台中我們當時也沒有答應說要補42億這都在審議的過程只不過最後行政院那邊審議下來的金額是1.68億這是行政院那邊審下來的金額最後審下來所以從來沒有答應過42億這件事那我先爭那最後總額啦如果你說你就年度沒辦法一次給42如果沒有承諾說命將給42億那總額按照本來的分配大概大約是一人一半嘛\n\n01:33.768 --> 02:00.114\n這個我們還在估算當中因為未來的財化法之後的財政狀況會非常不一樣一年增加了接近三千億的三百億的預算所以本來承諾的大約一人一半的這個金額到後面還是可能有變動你是這個意思嗎我認為這個變動的機率相當的高因為中央已經沒有這麼多的預算可以支應地方應辦的捷運事項來部長我們看下一頁當然部長您針對交通部分但是我們看整體的年度預算\n\n02:00.894 --> 02:22.107\n院長昨天行政院長昨天在這個總諮詢的時候有回應其他委員講說明年總預算中央編列的是三兆零三百五十億跟今年含最佳預算用包含前面三預算後來最佳預算等等的最後比起來他的規模一樣三兆一些比去年增加了二十二億喔對你的總預算你的年度國家總預算是增加的增加二十二億\n\n02:23.007 --> 02:30.823\n然後你今天部長你跟我說因為行政院覺得說財化法所以把台中的或各城市的捷運軌道建設砍掉但是你總計算你是增加的啊\n\n02:32.134 --> 02:51.693\n財發法地方的這個配額那是另外計算那個沒有算在這個三兆裡面當然今天你有三兆了跟去年相比其實差不多但去年我想各城市的捷運並沒有被砍這麼多這第一個部分第二個部分鐵道局是我們這個捷運的主管機關嘛鐵道局自己今年度明年度跟今年度相比也增加了143億\n\n02:53.786 --> 03:10.872\n最近鐵道也增加到我決心被砍為什麼發生這種事情這不合理嘛這個配置是不合理的吧兩個部分第一個部分是國家應該要做的事情其實也增加了不少尤其是在大院通過了很多的預算案或者是要增加預算的案子其實很多那個今天這邊我簡單帶過那個東西很多都沒有編進來嘛\n\n03:14.593 --> 03:40.505\n有些什麼經費有些那個是大院要討論的但是我們說針對很多大院討論完之後增加了不少預算再來我們國家也確實增加了很多的項目在做這是第一點那第二點為什麼鐵道局的預算增加跟委員報告在今年在明年跟後年會是整個交通建設的工程預算的高峰期明年跟後年我舉一個例子跟委員報告\n\n03:42.106 --> 03:59.506\n包含我們自己的自己要辦的工程以外地方的捷運的需求地方捷運需求本來想要協助地方的在明年會有399億的需求明年實際上有399億的需求但後年成長到1000億的需求\n\n04:00.387 --> 04:22.497\n大後年會有八百億大大後年也是八百億也就是說這個是一個抖身的狀態真正的需求是一個抖身的狀態但是在現在的狀況是我們自己遇到了財化法的狀況底下我們自己鐵道局有很多的建設正在進行當中包含桃園的鐵路地下化包含台南的鐵路地下化\n\n04:23.217 --> 04:47.626\n包含花東雙軌電氣化等等的工程我們都在進行當中也就是說我們自己工程的高峰期我們遇到了在街上加上地方的這個捷運的需求的高峰期也遇到了兩個高峰都一起遇到所以當然會供不應求我們的預算當然會不足部長沒關係我是要跟你講說今天你是交通部部長那我們希望說在中央政府總預算一樣三兆的規模之下\n\n04:48.902 --> 05:05.304\n本來大家期待的因為就像我之前講過跟你私下大家討論的時候也講過嘛今天既然這個捷運建設是要經過中央審議的那你們既然有權大家有責嘛把我們後續要把它完成嘛你不能說最後前面都審都是你們審然後金額分配就談好了然後現在\n\n05:06.929 --> 05:22.437\n過了之後總預算並沒有變少然後鐵道局預算也增加的情況下面結果把錢打走的不是看總預算的狀況是要看真正的需求我們工程在進行的需求我想民眾這種交通建設是硬體建設這種資本門建設大家都一定有這個需求所以我們希望說這幾年是高峰期\n\n05:23.677 --> 05:50.696\n所以後續到底台中市的捷運或各城市的捷運的經費會不會變動還未定又怎樣報告委員我跟您報告台中市要蓋捷運其實好簡單決定權在盧市長的手上他增加的統籌分配款只要拿出七分之一就夠他所說的這個四十二億的需求那是一年度嘛那整條捷運蓋起來一兩千億啊這一條而已啊如果假設未來的十年台中市增加的預算接近三千億他要蓋這一條捷運絕對沒問題\n\n05:52.737 --> 06:10.380\n是市長的決定所以你現在說中央在這部分的話可能後續在報告委員分配比例上面有多少錢我們會做多少事有多少錢我們就會全部拿出來幫助地方來做捷運所以我今天講嘛今天總預算第一個總預算是沒有減少第二個\n\n06:11.341 --> 06:37.192\n鐵道局在整體的編列上是增加的事就以按照這個至少明年度的預算來講是增加的那是需求增加所以我們希望說交通部你們在行政院裡面但是你們行政部門的事情你們行政院裡面在這個排序上面應該要去多增加這種硬體建設的錢而不是報告委員有啦我們有增加但是要以我們自己的工程為優先因為要有個觀念捷運是地方興建\n\n06:38.112 --> 06:57.429\n中央有能力的時候協助所以主要的責任是在地方他要不要做地方自己決定中央有餘裕的時候一定會幫忙但是當我的力氣減少或者是我的資源減少的時候能幫的力道必然就減少部長如果這樣說那我們希望未來捷運的這個整合這個中央的進度\n\n06:58.450 --> 07:24.980\n就可以稍微快一點了如果這樣錢跟市要一起嗎其實我也這麼認為好OK那這樣有共識如果這樣的話我們以後如果台中市或各地方政府要自己出錢的部分那我們希望中央審核能夠加速好不好好那接下來討論一下那個高鐵的這個鄰近車廂的問題我想幾個鄰近車廂當然是軟體的部分大家服務或是勸導等等我們希望說大家能夠互相尊重那你看硬體的部分我覺得這是有點有趣\n\n07:27.497 --> 07:33.484\n從十年前到現在大家都不斷強調希望高鐵的訊號能夠增強讓收訊能夠更好電話更好打看影片更順暢\n\n07:34.912 --> 07:59.461\n我們把硬體做好了或是說我們努力去把硬體改善改善完之後然後現在跟大家說我們要寧靜車廂好當然我覺得我是個人是寧靜車廂這樣的政策喔可是我說那這個收訊的部分有沒有必要再花這麼多經費去增強因為這是一個相悖的概念嘛我今天把訊號增強讓大家能夠更方便的打電話更方便的收看影片那會不會導致說更多人在高野上使用這個手機訊號的這個問題這個不覺得這個政策有點矛盾嗎\n\n08:05.308 --> 08:22.034\n謝謝委員的關心我想兩者並不完全矛盾因為有好的訊號大家可以事實上方便使用3C產品但是是戴耳機所以它是同時是共存的可以產生win-win的效果而且我們事實上並沒有禁止打電話我們只是希望打電話的時候都要選官\n\n08:22.614 --> 08:42.980\n好我因為在這個寧靜車廂的這個相關規範裡面我想比較明確的幾個要求當然希望大家假天會要去這個玄關講然後看影片要用耳機就是寧靜車廂幾個規範明確的幾個是針對3C產品的使用因為3C產品當然就包含到訊號的部分那所以我覺得這部分我覺得可以再討論就到底要不要把它\n\n08:43.780 --> 09:01.730\n因為你說今天又要再推這個貧困要增強到8倍讓整個高鐵的收視率更強這是6月25號的新聞有這樣的一個狀況我覺得這個可以再討論一下錢要不要花在這個地方還是說現有這個狀況我基本上正常在使用我們的LINE我們的文字訊息在高鐵上基本上是堪用的\n\n09:02.430 --> 09:17.571\n但是你要視訊你要看影片你要講電話當然有些地方會收訊不太好所以我覺得這個在討論寧靜車廂的時候我們希望大家不要去干擾到別人的時候是不是在這個硬體上面我覺得這個權能要稍微拿捏一下好不好再來就是說這個\n\n09:19.193 --> 09:47.831\n死案的部分因為董事長就之前這個針對小孩哭鬧的部分你們說要祭出這個怪怪來伺候就可能會給一些零食餅乾但是我知道說我們針對這個WHO等等的一些組織針對小朋友他們吃的東西其實很多家長自己也是有些想法就是說我們給他吃有糖的或是太多人工添加物的餅乾對這個小孩子的有些家長包括我自己個人在內我是很在意這個事情的所以我覺得在如果真的要做這個事情\n\n09:48.371 --> 10:04.131\n要做配套措施因為其實真的高磊一開始推動是希望大家全家出遊能夠多利用大宗藝術那也有小朋友的存在所以在食安上面我們是不是應該要重新的去思考一下這個東西怎麼處理好那我想我們會來來做晚飯的來思考謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員好\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.12,"end":5.085,"text":"好謝謝主席我們請交通部陳部長請陳部長"},{"start":15.397,"end":33.504,"text":"部長一開始當然還是要跟你討論一下我們終結捷運藍線被砍了96%過去本來承諾今年明年度的預算應該是42億那現在明年只剩下1.68億那當然各城市包含台北跟高雄它的減幅也都蠻高的其他城市在70% 76%那台中這個是減幅高了96%"},{"start":37.105,"end":65.43,"text":"那我們今天在這邊提出來的時候問說那問一下部長那接下來怎麼辦會後續都長這樣子嗎那為什麼會發生這樣子好報告委員首先先回答您的問題的最後一個問題為什麼會發生這樣的事情因為裁劃法因為立法院通過了裁劃法的這個裁劃法的裁員分配所以造成整個交通部當時能夠協助地方的這個建設尤其在捷運建設的補助款大幅的減少這是第一個"},{"start":66.07,"end":93.148,"text":"那第二個呢台中我們當時也沒有答應說要補42億這都在審議的過程只不過最後行政院那邊審議下來的金額是1.68億這是行政院那邊審下來的金額最後審下來所以從來沒有答應過42億這件事那我先爭那最後總額啦如果你說你就年度沒辦法一次給42如果沒有承諾說命將給42億那總額按照本來的分配大概大約是一人一半嘛"},{"start":93.768,"end":120.114,"text":"這個我們還在估算當中因為未來的財化法之後的財政狀況會非常不一樣一年增加了接近三千億的三百億的預算所以本來承諾的大約一人一半的這個金額到後面還是可能有變動你是這個意思嗎我認為這個變動的機率相當的高因為中央已經沒有這麼多的預算可以支應地方應辦的捷運事項來 部長我們看下一頁當然部長您針對交通部分但是我們看整體的年度預算"},{"start":120.894,"end":142.107,"text":"院長昨天行政院長昨天在這個總諮詢的時候有回應其他委員講說明年總預算中央編列的是三兆零三百五十億跟今年含最佳預算用包含前面三預算後來最佳預算等等的最後比起來他的規模一樣三兆一些比去年增加了二十二億喔對你的總預算你的年度國家總預算是增加的增加二十二億"},{"start":143.007,"end":150.823,"text":"然後你今天部長你跟我說因為行政院覺得說財化法所以把台中的或各城市的捷運軌道建設砍掉但是你總計算你是增加的啊"},{"start":152.134,"end":171.693,"text":"財發法地方的這個配額那是另外計算那個沒有算在這個三兆裡面當然今天你有三兆了跟去年相比其實差不多但去年我想各城市的捷運並沒有被砍這麼多這第一個部分第二個部分鐵道局是我們這個捷運的主管機關嘛鐵道局自己今年度明年度跟今年度相比也增加了143億"},{"start":173.786,"end":190.872,"text":"最近鐵道也增加到我決心被砍為什麼發生這種事情這不合理嘛這個配置是不合理的吧兩個部分第一個部分是國家應該要做的事情其實也增加了不少尤其是在大院通過了很多的預算案或者是要增加預算的案子其實很多那個今天這邊我簡單帶過那個東西很多都沒有編進來嘛"},{"start":194.593,"end":220.505,"text":"有些什麼經費有些那個是大院要討論的但是我們說針對 很多大院討論完之後增加了不少預算再來我們國家也確實增加了很多的項目在做這是第一點那第二點為什麼鐵道局的預算增加跟委員報告在今年在明年跟後年會是整個交通建設的工程預算的高峰期明年跟後年我舉一個例子跟委員報告"},{"start":222.106,"end":239.506,"text":"包含我們自己的自己要辦的工程以外地方的捷運的需求地方捷運需求本來想要協助地方的在明年會有399億的需求明年實際上有399億的需求但後年成長到1000億的需求"},{"start":240.387,"end":262.497,"text":"大後年會有八百億大大後年也是八百億也就是說這個是一個抖身的狀態真正的需求是一個抖身的狀態但是在現在的狀況是我們自己遇到了財化法的狀況底下我們自己鐵道局有很多的建設正在進行當中包含桃園的鐵路地下化包含台南的鐵路地下化"},{"start":263.217,"end":287.626,"text":"包含花東雙軌電氣化等等的工程我們都在進行當中也就是說我們自己工程的高峰期我們遇到了在街上加上地方的這個捷運的需求的高峰期也遇到了兩個高峰都一起遇到所以當然會供不應求我們的預算當然會不足部長沒關係我是要跟你講說今天你是交通部部長那我們希望說在中央政府總預算一樣三兆的規模之下"},{"start":288.902,"end":305.304,"text":"本來大家期待的因為就像我之前講過跟你私下大家討論的時候也講過嘛今天既然這個捷運建設是要經過中央審議的那你們既然有權大家有責嘛把我們後續要把它完成嘛你不能說最後前面都審都是你們審然後金額分配就談好了然後現在"},{"start":306.929,"end":322.437,"text":"過了之後總預算並沒有變少然後鐵道局預算也增加的情況下面結果把錢打走的不是看總預算的狀況是要看真正的需求我們工程在進行的需求我想民眾這種交通建設是硬體建設這種資本門建設大家都一定有這個需求所以我們希望說這幾年是高峰期"},{"start":323.677,"end":350.696,"text":"所以後續到底台中市的捷運或各城市的捷運的經費會不會變動還未定又怎樣報告委員我跟您報告台中市要蓋捷運其實好簡單決定權在盧市長的手上他增加的統籌分配款只要拿出七分之一就夠他所說的這個四十二億的需求那是一年度嘛那整條捷運蓋起來一兩千億啊這一條而已啊如果假設未來的十年台中市增加的預算接近三千億他要蓋這一條捷運絕對沒問題"},{"start":352.737,"end":370.38,"text":"是市長的決定所以你現在說中央在這部分的話可能後續在報告委員分配比例上面有多少錢我們會做多少事有多少錢我們就會全部拿出來幫助地方來做捷運所以我今天講嘛今天總預算第一個總預算是沒有減少第二個"},{"start":371.341,"end":397.192,"text":"鐵道局在整體的編列上是增加的事就以按照這個至少明年度的預算來講是增加的那是需求增加所以我們希望說交通部你們在行政院裡面但是你們行政部門的事情你們行政院裡面在這個排序上面應該要去多增加這種硬體建設的錢而不是報告委員有啦我們有增加但是要以我們自己的工程為優先因為要有個觀念捷運是地方興建"},{"start":398.112,"end":417.429,"text":"中央有能力的時候協助所以主要的責任是在地方他要不要做地方自己決定中央有餘裕的時候一定會幫忙但是當我的力氣減少或者是我的資源減少的時候能幫的力道必然就減少部長如果這樣說那我們希望未來捷運的這個整合這個中央的進度"},{"start":418.45,"end":444.98,"text":"就可以稍微快一點了如果這樣錢跟市要一起嗎其實我也這麼認為好OK那這樣有共識如果這樣的話我們以後如果台中市或各地方政府要自己出錢的部分那我們希望中央審核能夠加速好不好好那接下來討論一下那個高鐵的這個鄰近車廂的問題我想幾個鄰近車廂當然是軟體的部分大家服務或是勸導等等我們希望說大家能夠互相尊重那你看硬體的部分我覺得這是有點有趣"},{"start":447.497,"end":453.484,"text":"從十年前到現在大家都不斷強調希望高鐵的訊號能夠增強讓收訊能夠更好電話更好打 看影片更順暢"},{"start":454.912,"end":479.461,"text":"我們把硬體做好了或是說我們努力去把硬體改善改善完之後然後現在跟大家說我們要寧靜車廂好當然我覺得我是個人是寧靜車廂這樣的政策喔可是我說那這個收訊的部分有沒有必要再花這麼多經費去增強因為這是一個相悖的概念嘛我今天把訊號增強讓大家能夠更方便的打電話更方便的收看影片那會不會導致說更多人在高野上使用這個手機訊號的這個問題這個不覺得這個政策有點矛盾嗎"},{"start":485.308,"end":502.034,"text":"謝謝委員的關心我想兩者並不完全矛盾因為有好的訊號大家可以事實上方便使用3C產品但是是戴耳機所以它是同時是共存的可以產生win-win的效果而且我們事實上並沒有禁止打電話我們只是希望打電話的時候都要選官"},{"start":502.614,"end":522.98,"text":"好 我因為在這個寧靜車廂的這個相關規範裡面我想比較明確的幾個要求當然希望大家假天會要去這個玄關講然後看影片要用耳機就是寧靜車廂幾個規範明確的幾個是針對3C產品的使用因為3C產品當然就包含到訊號的部分那所以我覺得這部分我覺得可以再討論就到底要不要把它"},{"start":523.78,"end":541.73,"text":"因為你說今天又要再推這個貧困要增強到8倍讓整個高鐵的收視率更強這是6月25號的新聞有這樣的一個狀況我覺得這個可以再討論一下錢要不要花在這個地方還是說現有這個狀況我基本上正常在使用我們的LINE我們的文字訊息在高鐵上基本上是堪用的"},{"start":542.43,"end":557.571,"text":"但是你要視訊你要看影片你要講電話當然有些地方會收訊不太好所以我覺得這個在討論寧靜車廂的時候我們希望大家不要去干擾到別人的時候是不是在這個硬體上面我覺得這個權能要稍微拿捏一下好不好再來就是說這個"},{"start":559.193,"end":587.831,"text":"死案的部分因為董事長就之前這個針對小孩哭鬧的部分你們說要祭出這個怪怪來伺候就可能會給一些零食餅乾但是我知道說我們針對這個WHO等等的一些組織針對小朋友他們吃的東西其實很多家長自己也是有些想法就是說我們給他吃有糖的或是太多人工添加物的餅乾對這個小孩子的有些家長包括我自己個人在內我是很在意這個事情的所以我覺得在如果真的要做這個事情"},{"start":588.371,"end":604.131,"text":"要做配套措施因為其實真的高磊一開始推動是希望大家全家出遊能夠多利用大宗藝術那也有小朋友的存在所以在食安上面我們是不是應該要重新的去思考一下這個東西怎麼處理好 那我想我們會來來做晚飯的來思考 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝委員好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":583,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（11時39分）好，謝謝主席，我們請交通部陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長世凱：委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，一開始當然還是要跟你討論一下我們中捷捷運藍線被砍了96%，過去本來承諾明年度的預算應該是42億，現在明年只剩下1.68億，當然各城市包含臺北和高雄的減幅也都蠻高的，其他城市在70%、76%，臺中的減幅高達96%，我們今天在這邊提出來是要問一下部長接下來怎麼辦？後續都長這樣子嗎？為什麼會發生這樣的事？"],["陳部長世凱：好，報告委員，首先先回答您問的最後一個問題：為什麼會發生這樣的事情？因為財劃法、因為立法院通過了財劃法的財源分配，所以造成整個交通部當時能夠協助地方的建設，尤其在捷運建設的補助款大幅減少，這是第一個。第二個，我們當時也沒有答應臺中說要補42億，這都在審議的過程，只不過最後行政院審議下來的金額是1.68億，這是行政院最後審下來的金額，所以從來沒有答應過42億這件事。"],["黃委員健豪：我先針對最後總額，如果你說沒有承諾明年給42億，那總額按照本來的分配大約是一人一半。"],["陳部長世凱：這個我們還在估算當中，因為未來的財劃法，之後的財政狀況會非常不一樣。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，沒關係。"],["陳部長世凱：臺中市一年增加了接近300億的預算。"],["黃委員健豪：所以本來承諾大約一人一半的金額，到後面還是可能會有變動，你是這個意思嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：我認為這個變動機率相當的高，因為中央已經沒有這麼多的預算可以支應地方應辦的捷運事項。"],["黃委員健豪：來，部長，當然部長您是針對交通部分，但是我們看整體的年度預算，行政院長昨天在總質詢的時候有回應其他委員講說明年總預算中央編列的是3兆350億，含今年追加預算，包含前面刪預算等等的，最後比起來它的規模一樣是3兆，而且比去年增加了22億，你的年度國家總預算是增加的，增加22億。然後今天部長你跟我說行政院因為財劃法，所以把臺中或各城市的捷運軌道建設砍掉，但是你的總預算是增加的，財劃法地方的配額那是另外計算，沒有算在這3兆裡面，今天你有3兆了，跟去年相比其實差不多，但去年我想各城市的捷運並沒有被砍這麼多，這是第一個部分。","第二個部分，鐵道局是我們捷運的主管機關，鐵道局自己明年度跟今年度相比也增加了143億，結果鐵道局增加，但捷運被砍，為什麼會發生這種事情？這不合理，這個配置是不合理的吧？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，兩個部分，第一個部分是國家應該要做的事情其實也增加了不少，尤其是在大院通過了很多的預算案或者是要增加預算的案子其實很多……"],["黃委員健豪：那部分今天這邊我簡單帶過，那個東西很多沒編進來，有些經費是大院要討論的……"],["陳部長世凱：很多大院討論完之後，增加了不少預算，再來，我們國家也確實增加了很多的項目在做，這是第一點。第二點，為什麼鐵道局的預算增加，跟委員報告，在明年和後年會是整個交通建設工程預算的高峰期，明年跟後年！我舉一個例子跟委員報告，包含我們自己要辦的工程以外，地方的捷運的需求，本來想要協助地方的，在明年會有399億的需求，即明年實際上有399億的需求，但後年成長到1,000億的需求，大後年會有800億，大大後年也是800億，也就是說，這個是一個陡升的狀態，真正的需求是一個陡升的狀態，但是現在是我們遇到了財劃法的狀況底下，我們自己鐵道局有很多的建設正在進行當中，包含桃園的鐵路地下化、包含臺南的鐵路地下化、包含花東雙軌電氣化等等的工程都在進行當中，也就是說，我們自己工程的高峰期，我們遇到了，再加上地方的捷運需求的高峰期也遇到了，兩個高峰都一起遇到，所以當然會供不應求，我們的預算當然會不足。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，沒關係，我是要跟你講，今天你是交通部部長，我們希望在中央政府總預算一樣是3兆的規模之下，本來大家期待的，就像我之前講過，跟你及大家私下討論的時候也講過，今天既然捷運建設是要經過中央審議的，你們既然有權、大家有責，我們後續要把它完成，你不能前面審都是你們審，然後金額分配都談好了，現在過了之後，總預算並沒有變少，鐵道局的預算也增加的情況，結果把錢拿走了。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，不是看總預算的狀況，是要看真正的需求、我們工程在進行的需求。"],["黃委員健豪：民眾的這種交通建設是硬體建設，這種資本門建設，大家都一定有這個需求，所以我希望……"],["陳部長世凱：這幾年是高峰期。"],["黃委員健豪：所以後續到底臺中市的捷運或各城市的捷運經費會不會變動還未定就對了？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，臺中市要蓋捷運其實好簡單，決定權在盧市長的手上，他只要從增加的統籌分配款拿出七分之一就足夠他所說的42億元需求。"],["黃委員健豪：那是一年度，但是整條捷運蓋起來需要一、二千億元，況且是一條而已。"],["陳部長世凱：假設未來十年臺中市增加的預算接近3,000億元，它要蓋這條捷運絕對沒問題，這是市長的決定。"],["黃委員健豪：你現在是說中央後續在分配比例上……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，我們有多少錢就會做多少事、有多少錢就會全部拿出來幫助地方做捷運建設。"],["黃委員健豪：第一個，總預算沒有減少。第二個，鐵道局在整體編列上增加的是……至少明年度的預算是增加的嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：那是需求增加，我們現在進行的工程……"],["黃委員健豪：那是你們行政部門的事情，行政院在這個排序上應該要多增加這種硬體建設的錢，而不是……"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，有啦！我們有增加，但是要以我們自己的工程為優先，因為要有一個觀念，捷運是由地方興建，中央有能力的時候會協助，所以主要的責任是在地方，要不要做是由地方自己決定，中央有餘裕的時候一定會幫忙，但是當我的力氣減少或我的資源減少時能幫的力道必然就會減少。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，如果是這樣的話，我們希望未來中央審核捷運的進度可以稍微快一點，因為錢與事情要一起嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：其實我也這麼認為。"],["黃委員健豪：OK，這樣就有共識，如果以後臺中市或各地方政府要自己出錢的部分，也希望中央的審核能夠加速，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：沒錯。"],["黃委員健豪：接下來要討論關於高鐵寧靜車廂的問題，所謂寧靜車廂當然是屬於軟體的部分，無論是服務或勸導等等，希望大家都能夠互相尊重。在硬體的部分，我覺得這件事情很有趣，從十年前到現在大家都不斷強調希望高鐵的訊號能夠增強，讓收訊能夠更好、電話更好打、看影片更順暢，但是當我們把硬體做好了、我們努力改善了硬體，現在又告訴大家要寧靜車廂。當然我個人是支持寧靜車廂這樣的政策，但是收訊的部分有沒有必要再花這麼多經費去增強？因為這是一個相悖的概念，今天把訊號增強讓大家能夠更方便的打電話、更方便的收看影片，會不會產生有更多人在高鐵上使用手機訊號的問題？不覺得這個政策有點矛盾嗎？"],["史董事長哲：謝謝委員的關心，我想兩者並不完全矛盾，因為有好的訊號可以方便大家使用3C產品，但是要戴上耳機，所以它是同時共存的，可以產生win-win的效果。事實上，我們也並沒有禁止打電話，只是希望打電話時能去玄關。"],["黃委員健豪：在寧靜車廂的相關規範中有幾個比較明確的要求，像是希望大家能去玄關講電話及看影片要戴上耳機等等，這幾個明確的規範是針對3C產品的使用，因為3C產品當然就關係到訊號的部分，我覺得這個部分可以再討論，到底要不要把它……因為你說又要再推頻寬再增強到8倍，讓整個高鐵的收訊會更強，這是6月25日的新聞，我覺得這個可以再討論，錢要不要花在這個地方，或是現有的這個狀況，基本上正常使用LINE的文字訊息是堪用的在高鐵上，但是你要視訊、要看影片、要講電話，當然有些地方的收訊會不太好，所以我覺得在討論寧靜車廂的時候、希望大家不要干擾到別人的時候，在這個硬體方面的權衡是不是也要稍微拿捏一下？好不好？","再來是食安的部分，針對小孩哭鬧的問題，你們說要祭出乖乖來侍候，可能會給一些零食餅乾，但我知道像是WHO等等的組織針對小朋友吃的東西，而且許多家長自己也都有些想法，不希望給孩子吃太多含糖或人工添加物的餅乾，包含我個人在內，我是很在意這件事情。如果你們真的要做這件事就必須要有配套措施，高鐵一開始推動是希望民眾全家出遊能多利用大眾運輸，也有小朋友的存在，所以是否應該重新思考這個食安問題該如何處理？"],["史董事長哲：我們會廣泛的思考，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。"],["陳部長世凱：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃健豪委員。","我們現在處理臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀。","案由：本院廖先翔委員，鑑於日前台62線快速公路西向4.7K處（7號橋A2橋台內側）發生伸縮縫鋼板翹起事件，致使多達三十餘輛車輛於行經該處時發生輪胎爆胎及車體損毀之情事，嚴重影響用路人行車安全。雖基隆工務段已於事發後緊急派員切除鋼板並進行臨時填補，以恢復通行安全，惟截至目前，公路局尚未就民眾車輛損害之賠償事宜提出明確回應或補償機制，是以為維護公共工程管理機關之責信原則，保障用路人合法權益，並防杜類似事件再度發生，爰要求交通部公路局應主動調查損害原因與責任歸屬並依《國家賠償法》相關規定，以全額賠償方式補償民眾損失，應全面檢討公路伸縮縫與橋梁設施設計、施工及維養機制，以防範類似事故重演，是否有當？敬請公決。","說明：","一、依據《國家賠償法》第3條第1項規定，公共設施因設置或管理有欠缺，致人民生命、身體、人身自由或財產受損害者，國家應負損害賠償責任。本案伸縮縫鋼板翹起，屬公共設施瑕疵導致之用路人損害，依法應由主管機關負擔國家賠償之責。","二、該路段雖基隆工務段原排定民國114年10月8日更換，然10月7日臨時損壞隆起，致使多達三十餘輛車輛於行經該處時發生輪胎爆胎及車體損毀之情事，為確保公共工程安全與責任透明，建議公路局除應主動調查損害原因與責任歸屬、儘速於三個月內完成受損民眾之賠償與撥款，並應檢討全國快速道路伸縮縫及鋼板設計與巡檢標準、公路伸縮縫與橋梁設施設計、施工及維養機制，以避免類似事件再度重演。","提案人：廖先翔","連署人：洪孟楷　　邱若華　　陳雪生"],["主席：先請教各位委員或提案委員是否要做補充說明？","請廖先翔委員。"],["廖委員先翔：謝謝召委。台62線近一年來除了這起事故，還有之前隧道裡燈具掉落的事件，都是比較受到社會廣泛注意的公共安全問題。這次的伸縮縫鋼板翹起事件，我想責任歸屬應該是非常的明確，也就是道路主管機關維護的問題。當然我們有國家賠償法的規定，只是我希望未來在相關程序的部分，無論是交通部或公路局能夠在程序上簡政便民，不要讓人家來跟我們追償時還要經過繁冗的程序，也希望公路局主動聯絡所有受影響的車輛、主動協助後續所有的維修及賠償，以上。"],["主席：謝謝廖委員。還有沒有其他委員要補充說明？沒有的話，現在就請行政單位說明。"],["林局長福山：報告召委及廖委員，第一點，關於台62線違反的部分已經請我們北分局再加強。第二點，針對這個案件的部分，確實我們所掌握到的，造冊登記大概有32輛車受損，簡政便民是必須要做的，但是整個受理的部分原則上並不需要公告，所以是不是建議，我們會儘快處理，但針對說明的第二點之第三行「儘速公告受損民眾之賠償」，已大致向委員報告過，「公路局會儘速於三個月內完成受損民眾之賠償與撥款」，後面的文字就不要了，我們會在三個月內完成。"],["廖委員先翔：同意。"],["主席：其他委員有沒有意見？沒有意見的話，我們的提案就照修正通過。","臨時提案已處理完畢，如有委員要對上述提案補簽，列入紀錄，並刊登公報。","現在繼續進行詢答，請廖先翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-2","speakers":["李昆澤","洪孟楷","林國成","徐富癸","蔡其昌","魯明哲","林俊憲","陳素月","何欣純","許智傑","黃健豪","廖先翔","陳雪生","黃國昌","邱若華","陳俊宇","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","李柏毅","蔡易餘","游顥","葉元之","陳冠廷","蘇清泉","賴惠員"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請交通部部長陳世凱列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱就「十月\n各連續假期疏運執行及規劃情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148101_00001"}}}