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00:00:55,132\n其實台灣的一個治安就是說到底好還是不好國人當然可以有不同的看法立法院當然有監督的一個職責更是要來督促但是你從2025年你全球這146個國家裡面國家安全的指數評比裡面去看\n\n4\n00:00:56,004 --> 00:01:23,230\n台灣還在世界的第四暴力犯罪跟竊盜的一個比例其實這個比例還算低10萬的居民舉發犯罪從1207起裡面是2.03起的一個兇殺案這當然是在講說我們這個社會的一個治安其實控制的倒不是像外界所講的這樣子但是當然在八月份的時候澳洲這樣的一個智庫的一個統計似乎我們又有一點退步了\n\n5\n00:01:23,610 --> 00:01:26,381\n那這個都值得我們去警惕的一個地方\n\n6\n00:01:27,165 --> 00:01:53,758\n那這一陣子我們看發生了苗栗的一個隨機商人的一個事件外界就開始去質疑就是說我們這個整個矯正制度是不是教化失靈了這個教化到底是不是失靈然後好像又會導出這整個教化是沒有用的那乾脆把這個受刑人去關一輩子我想這是不對的接下來我請部長來看一下就是說其實我們受刑人出獄以後\n\n7\n00:01:54,718 --> 00:02:19,235\n這兩年內裡面的再犯率你從2020年是29%到了2023年是18%從這個數字來看其實代表說82%的壽星人他是這兩年裡面他就沒有再犯了那這個矯正他其實是有用的不是說他沒有用那這個數字其實告訴我們就是說很多的矯正同仁他們的努力不是白費\n\n8\n00:02:20,427 --> 00:02:40,552\n但是因為這個整個個案就去抹殺掉全體的一個付出好像是要把整個教化制度一棒這樣給打死我相信這也不對但接下來我必須要講的就是說我們還是有欠缺的地方你整個形式政策的靈魂就在於說你去矯正教化到最後是讓他去復歸社會而不是單純的只是報復然後切割讓所有的壽星人都完全沒有希望這也不對但是我們要做的地方\n\n9\n00:02:50,234 --> 00:03:14,022\n其實還有很多啦我剛剛也聽到了我們我相信啦我們這麼美麗的翁小玲召委她擔任召委以後啊在這個會期裡面我們對法務部我相信我們會大力支持你們該有的預算啦翁委員跟我我們都兩個召委都會全力來支持但是該監督的部分我們也必須要去做一個監督你像譬如說本席啊一直在提出這個兩個比較\n\n10\n00:03:19,072 --> 00:03:39,217\n這一些一直在著墨的就是基層同仁這個的新生就是說危險佳績的部分危險佳績的部分你去把它看看我一直在比較就是說現在整個移民署的收容脫逃的移工裡面危險佳績就是9700然後監所第一線管理人員危險津貼是4500當然我也知道已經這個\n\n11\n00:03:41,645 --> 00:04:05,727\n這個整個矯正署這個地方也送出去到行政院直接借戶的部分4500調整到9700第二級是4000調整到7760那間接借戶的為止在3000那部長我要請教就是說這條也說這麼久了你現在是前出了安裝你也要給你的監守人員的士氣大家要給他們好給他們鼓勵一下現在是今年到\n\n12\n00:04:07,642 --> 00:04:23,647\n這部分修正增加專業佳績以及那個危老的一個佳績危老佳績已經在7月1日已經生效了嘛生效對已經生效了那我想這個是可以讓我們這麼辛苦的矯正同仁有一個\n\n13\n00:04:25,731 --> 00:04:50,461\n一個鼓勵來圍繞矯正同仁的一個辛勞那的確是在矯正機關他那些的收容人的確都是有不少有暴力傾向的而且暴力的實際的才會在裡面所以我想在整個一個圍繞的一個津貼這的確是我們是給同仁一些的一個鼓勵真的也要給他們打氣而且真的要給他們打氣\n\n14\n00:04:51,401 --> 00:05:15,808\n我要說的是我們的矯正人員他就司法最後一哩路的一個守門人他們守的不是只有監獄的鐵門更是整個社會安全的一個底線讓人冒著風險這個我是覺得沒有給一點比較合理的待遇這是不對的啦這個大家一起努力把他制度建制得更完善但是人力短缺的問題我就要請部長你再看看\n\n15\n00:05:17,168 --> 00:05:35,373\n你這個矯正機關的預算緣額跟你實際上的短缺的不少人你看你就減7、8、45人你介護的人力裡面你跟收容人來比較的話是1比10.2你心理社工的部分315跟收容的你看你比說1比197\n\n16\n00:05:37,413 --> 00:05:59,105\n教化人力這個可能就必須要你特別特別去留意了你跟收容人的比數是1比141啊醫事人員這很難講嘛就是說有時候你還會到介護出來但是呢你看你這個作業的導師跟作業科的人力裡面你現在還是由介護科管理員去做監任喔這個署長你是不是起來之後應該這個你會大道過戶你提出來部長會跟你支持郡馬都會跟你支持\n\n17\n00:06:05,389 --> 00:06:07,112\n貪貪看你的講法你不覺得長期這樣子這個部分你們過去都沒有去處理到嗎\n\n18\n00:06:13,447 --> 00:06:34,840\n是謝謝委員關心你不可以跟人家謝謝我來看你這個謝謝委員因為的確是我們那個介護人力跟那個角度人力跟收入人力的比例我們是比日本比其他國家高很多我們這邊再來努力我們提出一下剛才那個趙委跟我們提那也謝謝\n\n19\n00:06:36,000 --> 00:07:03,079\n兩位召委關心這個余鳳鑫啦余鳳鑫那是說得比較老實一點心肝很好包括所有的包括剛剛講苗栗的那件隨機殺人我們是很痛心所以事實上我們在建立的這些的一些的除了介護人力不足還有社工交流人力這部分我們是不是我們在提出一些的一些的增編的一個計畫請委員來支持\n\n20\n00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:05,160\n我看各個政黨審判沒人要審司法法制有人想到就是去監獄\n\n21\n00:07:22,315 --> 00:07:50,993\n就都去看手手把你損了謝謝趙偉的一個關心因為這個監獄的確有很多我們需要可以在這盡盡的地方尤其是人力跟預算這部分犯罪後受到法律的制裁硬爆合理啦但問題這些都是我們的國民他只是穿著球衣啦要怎麼管理這裡你監守這裡沒有給他相對的一個武器的話這不行啦否則光一個突發的個案\n\n22\n00:07:52,592 --> 00:08:15,398\n把整個這個矯正的一個制度把它打死掉這是不對的啦這是不對的啦但是呢我也必須要再提醒就是說我們一直在講說廢除掉整個累進儲育的一個制度去納入監獄行刑法的一個做準備這個再來的重擔這新的署長就在你的手上你說現行的累進儲育碰到哪些問題你們很清楚嗎現在差不多要叫回師\n\n23\n00:08:16,278 --> 00:08:33,425\n教輔導師那些現在大家都變算數的老師你要納入尤其是我一直在講說剛入監的這些受刑人他最需要支持跟教化但是現在你的分所變最多你現在寒假算最多其實整個黃金時機都錯失掉了這個整個從思維上都要去做一個改變但是我要提出幾個問題\n\n24\n00:08:42,188 --> 00:09:06,276\n你現在如果廢除掉以後那你把他納入整個監獄刑刑法裡面你現在新制跟舊制如何要銜接我們手臂怎麼算啦對那個壽星人他最重要的第二樣就是說你要升階跟降級你也要弄得清楚你到底是要用行政命令還是要定定一個辦法這個都要未雨綢繆啦人家你沒搞好我能幫你支持嘛\n\n25\n00:09:06,596 --> 00:09:08,177\n我們真的是會給你支持謝謝委員好不好那你這個考核標準如何去做一個統一因為現在每一個單位你的評分都不一樣你未來如何去確保整個公平\n\n26\n00:09:16,482 --> 00:09:44,004\n那對整個監獄裡面的求情的一個穩定跟受刑人他的一個權益這個署長你必須要去想清楚會會會好不好感謝委員會有時候沒有你跟他會會啊沒有沒有現在的話我們把雷金主義改為階段性處理以前雷金主義是要打分數的打得很細那結果反而給教委是帶來一個困擾每個東西剛剛委員也提到變成數學老師可是現在我們改為階段處理很清楚的我們把4321階段用那心情來切割\n\n27\n00:09:45,285 --> 00:09:48,557\n在市集的話它行其實是三分之一才能進到\n\n28\n00:09:49,831 --> 00:09:51,531\n我們這個社會要發生一個比較突發的案件對求情都會有所影響\n\n29\n00:10:18,814 --> 00:10:21,015\n你還當真以為你送到監獄裡面去然後把他叫化出來以後他出來就變溫良公賤浪你想想這樣吧沒關係說那些人嘛立法院裡面壞人就一大堆啦講話就變騙子啦什麼那個道德\n\n30\n00:10:37,899 --> 00:10:44,802\n跟這個整個監獄裡面的受刑人來比我看都未能相比你但只是說送到監獄裡面那犯了法那本來就要應報嘛可是呢在這個應報裡面的這個過程裡面的第一線的執行人你們的同仁他當然會比較辛苦那可是呢我們也必須要讓受刑人去看到他的未來的一個希望啦這個很困難啦常常因為個案裡面社會的情緒是浮動的講道理也講不清啦\n\n31\n00:11:06,050 --> 00:11:14,675\n台灣的社會以現在來看的話那個整個社會還算是穩定的我們不能因為個案去說喔這台灣地安賣到這就行賣賣法務部長你的責任啊\n\n32\n00:11:18,601 --> 00:11:47,688\n那你就要宣誓啊任何重大的一個犯罪你就必須要很嚴正的去做一個宣誓啊但是呢這一個整個矯正的一個後半段這一塊你還是要做好啊不是說發生一個事情後後面要去跟人家說派人或是人家跟人家死這個想法也都不對啦好不好那該缺人手的部分啦該去把整個制度面去建置完成的司法法治委員會是一個鎖理的地方啦尤其是翁召維啦好不好\n\n33\n00:11:48,269 --> 00:11:49,277\n好谢谢好谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n350\t10088\t發言 謝謝謝謝我們召委有請我們法務部正部長好 請部長\n11733\t36261\t我們矯正署 矯正署署長也上來一下好不好來 委員好部長好 辛苦我想今天幾個問題又要來就教了這幾天尤其是今天我看到在本會裡面的一些質詢似乎也充斥著好像是這個矯正無用論這個是聽了讓人是很大的一個感慨\n37099\t55132\t其實台灣的一個治安就是說到底好還是不好國人當然可以有不同的看法立法院當然有監督的一個職責更是要來督促但是你從2025年你全球這146個國家裡面國家安全的指數評比裡面去看\n56004\t83230\t台灣還在世界的第四暴力犯罪跟竊盜的一個比例其實這個比例還算低10萬的居民舉發犯罪從1207起裡面是2.03起的一個兇殺案這當然是在講說我們這個社會的一個治安其實控制的倒不是像外界所講的這樣子但是當然在八月份的時候澳洲這樣的一個智庫的一個統計似乎我們又有一點退步了\n83610\t86381\t那這個都值得我們去警惕的一個地方\n87165\t113758\t那這一陣子我們看發生了苗栗的一個隨機商人的一個事件外界就開始去質疑就是說我們這個整個矯正制度是不是教化失靈了這個教化到底是不是失靈然後好像又會導出這整個教化是沒有用的那乾脆把這個受刑人去關一輩子我想這是不對的接下來我請部長來看一下就是說其實我們受刑人出獄以後\n114718\t139235\t這兩年內裡面的再犯率你從2020年是29%到了2023年是18%從這個數字來看其實代表說82%的壽星人他是這兩年裡面他就沒有再犯了那這個矯正他其實是有用的不是說他沒有用那這個數字其實告訴我們就是說很多的矯正同仁他們的努力不是白費\n140427\t160552\t但是因為這個整個個案就去抹殺掉全體的一個付出好像是要把整個教化制度一棒這樣給打死我相信這也不對但接下來我必須要講的就是說我們還是有欠缺的地方你整個形式政策的靈魂就在於說你去矯正教化到最後是讓他去復歸社會而不是單純的只是報復然後切割讓所有的壽星人都完全沒有希望這也不對但是我們要做的地方\n170234\t194022\t其實還有很多啦我剛剛也聽到了我們 我相信啦我們這麼美麗的翁小玲召委她擔任召委以後啊在這個會期裡面我們對法務部我相信我們會大力支持你們該有的預算啦翁委員跟我我們都兩個召委都會全力來支持但是該監督的部分我們也必須要去做一個監督你像譬如說本席啊一直在提出這個兩個比較\n199072\t219217\t這一些一直在著墨的就是基層同仁這個的新生就是說危險佳績的部分危險佳績的部分你去把它看看我一直在比較就是說現在整個移民署的收容脫逃的移工裡面危險佳績就是9700然後監所第一線管理人員危險津貼是4500當然我也知道已經這個\n221645\t245727\t這個整個矯正署這個地方也送出去到行政院直接借戶的部分4500調整到9700第二級是4000調整到7760那間接借戶的為止在3000那部長 我要請教就是說這條也說這麼久了 你現在是前出了安裝你也要給你的監守人員的士氣大家要給他們好 給他們鼓勵一下 現在是今年到\n247642\t263647\t這部分修正增加專業佳績以及那個危老的一個佳績危老佳績已經在7月1日已經生效了嘛生效對 已經生效了那我想這個是可以讓我們這麼辛苦的矯正同仁有一個\n265731\t290461\t一個鼓勵來圍繞矯正同仁的一個辛勞那的確是在矯正機關他那些的收容人的確都是有不少有暴力傾向的而且暴力的實際的才會在裡面所以我想在整個一個圍繞的一個津貼這的確是我們是給同仁一些的一個鼓勵真的也要給他們打氣而且真的要給他們打氣\n291401\t315808\t我要說的是 我們的矯正人員 他就司法最後一哩路的一個守門人他們守的不是只有監獄的鐵門 更是整個社會安全的一個底線讓人冒著風險 這個我是覺得沒有給一點比較合理的待遇這是不對的啦 這個大家一起努力 把他制度建制得更完善但是 人力短缺的問題 我就要請部長你再看看\n317168\t335373\t你這個矯正機關的預算緣額跟你實際上的短缺的不少人你看你就減7、8、45人你介護的人力裡面你跟收容人來比較的話是1比10.2你心理社工的部分315跟收容的你看你比說1比197\n337413\t359105\t教化人力 這個可能就必須要你特別特別去留意了你跟收容人的比數是1比141啊醫事人員這很難講嘛就是說有時候你還會到介護出來但是呢 你看你這個作業的導師跟作業科的人力裡面你現在還是由介護科管理員去做監任喔這個署長你是不是起來之後應該這個你會大道過戶你提出來 部長會跟你支持 郡馬都會跟你支持\n365389\t367112\t貪貪看你的講法你不覺得長期這樣子這個部分你們過去都沒有去處理到嗎\n373447\t394840\t是 謝謝委員關心你不可以跟人家謝謝我來看你這個謝謝委員因為的確是我們那個介護人力跟那個角度人力跟收入人力的比例我們是比日本比其他國家高很多我們這邊再來努力我們提出一下剛才那個趙委跟我們提那也謝謝\n396000\t423079\t兩位召委 關心這個 余鳳鑫啦 余鳳鑫那是說得比較老實一點 心肝很好包括所有的 包括剛剛講苗栗的那件隨機殺人我們是很痛心 所以事實上我們在建立的這些的一些的除了介護人力不足 還有社工交流人力這部分我們是不是 我們在提出一些的一些的 增編的一個計畫請委員來支持\n423319\t425160\t我看各個政黨 審判沒人要審 司法法制有人想到就是去監獄\n442315\t470993\t就都去看手手 把你損了 謝謝趙偉的一個關心因為這個監獄的確有很多我們需要可以在這盡盡的地方尤其是人力跟預算這部分犯罪後 受到法律的制裁硬爆 合理啦但問題這些都是我們的國民他只是穿著球衣啦要怎麼管理這裡你監守這裡沒有給他相對的一個武器的話這不行啦 否則光一個突發的個案\n472592\t495398\t把整個這個矯正的一個制度把它打死掉這是不對的啦這是不對的啦但是呢我也必須要再提醒就是說我們一直在講說廢除掉整個累進儲育的一個制度去納入監獄行刑法的一個做準備這個再來的重擔這新的署長就在你的手上你說現行的累進儲育碰到哪些問題你們很清楚嗎現在差不多要叫回師\n496278\t513425\t教輔導師那些 現在大家都變算數的老師你要納入 尤其是 我一直在講說剛入監的這些受刑人 他最需要支持跟教化但是現在你的分所變最多你現在寒假算最多其實整個黃金時機都錯失掉了這個整個從思維上都要去做一個改變但是 我要提出幾個問題\n522188\t546276\t你現在如果廢除掉以後 那你把他納入整個監獄刑刑法裡面你現在新制跟舊制如何要銜接我們手臂怎麼算啦 對那個壽星人他最重要的第二樣就是說 你要升階跟降級 你也要弄得清楚你到底是要用行政命令 還是要定定一個辦法這個都要未雨綢繆啦 人家你沒搞好 我能幫你支持嘛\n546596\t548177\t我們真的是會給你支持謝謝委員好不好那你這個考核標準如何去做一個統一因為現在每一個單位你的評分都不一樣你未來如何去確保整個公平\n556482\t584004\t那對整個監獄裡面的求情的一個穩定跟受刑人他的一個權益這個署長你必須要去想清楚會 會 會好不好 感謝委員 會有時候沒有你跟他會會啊沒有沒有 現在的話我們把雷金主義改為階段性處理以前雷金主義是要打分數的打得很細那結果反而給教委是帶來一個困擾每個東西剛剛委員也提到變成數學老師可是現在我們改為階段處理很清楚的我們把4321階段用那心情來切割\n585285\t588557\t在市集的話它行其實是三分之一才能進到\n589831\t591531\t我們這個社會要發生一個比較突發的案件對求情都會有所影響\n618814\t621015\t你還當真以為你送到監獄裡面去然後把他叫化出來以後他出來就變溫良 公賤 浪你想想這樣吧 沒關係 說那些人嘛立法院裡面壞人就一大堆啦講話就變騙子啦 什麼那個道德\n637899\t644802\t跟這個整個監獄裡面的受刑人來比我看都未能相比你但只是說送到監獄裡面那犯了法那本來就要應報嘛可是呢在這個應報裡面的這個過程裡面的第一線的執行人你們的同仁他當然會比較辛苦那可是呢我們也必須要讓受刑人去看到他的未來的一個希望啦這個很困難啦常常因為個案裡面社會的情緒是浮動的講道理也講不清啦\n666050\t674675\t台灣的社會以現在來看的話那個整個社會還算是穩定的我們不能因為個案去說 喔這台灣地安賣到這就行賣 賣法務部長你的責任啊\n678601\t707688\t那你就要宣誓啊 任何重大的一個犯罪你就必須要很嚴正的去做一個宣誓啊但是呢 這一個整個矯正的一個後半段這一塊你還是要做好啊 不是說發生一個事情後後面要去跟人家說 派人或是人家跟人家死這個想法也都不對啦 好不好那該缺人手的部分啦 該去把整個制度面去建置完成的司法法治委員會是一個鎖理的地方啦 尤其是翁召維啦 好不好\n708269\t709277\t好 谢谢好 谢谢\n","txt":"發言 謝謝謝謝我們召委有請我們法務部正部長好 請部長\n我們矯正署 矯正署署長也上來一下好不好來 委員好部長好 辛苦我想今天幾個問題又要來就教了這幾天尤其是今天我看到在本會裡面的一些質詢似乎也充斥著好像是這個矯正無用論這個是聽了讓人是很大的一個感慨\n其實台灣的一個治安就是說到底好還是不好國人當然可以有不同的看法立法院當然有監督的一個職責更是要來督促但是你從2025年你全球這146個國家裡面國家安全的指數評比裡面去看\n台灣還在世界的第四暴力犯罪跟竊盜的一個比例其實這個比例還算低10萬的居民舉發犯罪從1207起裡面是2.03起的一個兇殺案這當然是在講說我們這個社會的一個治安其實控制的倒不是像外界所講的這樣子但是當然在八月份的時候澳洲這樣的一個智庫的一個統計似乎我們又有一點退步了\n那這個都值得我們去警惕的一個地方\n那這一陣子我們看發生了苗栗的一個隨機商人的一個事件外界就開始去質疑就是說我們這個整個矯正制度是不是教化失靈了這個教化到底是不是失靈然後好像又會導出這整個教化是沒有用的那乾脆把這個受刑人去關一輩子我想這是不對的接下來我請部長來看一下就是說其實我們受刑人出獄以後\n這兩年內裡面的再犯率你從2020年是29%到了2023年是18%從這個數字來看其實代表說82%的壽星人他是這兩年裡面他就沒有再犯了那這個矯正他其實是有用的不是說他沒有用那這個數字其實告訴我們就是說很多的矯正同仁他們的努力不是白費\n但是因為這個整個個案就去抹殺掉全體的一個付出好像是要把整個教化制度一棒這樣給打死我相信這也不對但接下來我必須要講的就是說我們還是有欠缺的地方你整個形式政策的靈魂就在於說你去矯正教化到最後是讓他去復歸社會而不是單純的只是報復然後切割讓所有的壽星人都完全沒有希望這也不對但是我們要做的地方\n其實還有很多啦我剛剛也聽到了我們 我相信啦我們這麼美麗的翁小玲召委她擔任召委以後啊在這個會期裡面我們對法務部我相信我們會大力支持你們該有的預算啦翁委員跟我我們都兩個召委都會全力來支持但是該監督的部分我們也必須要去做一個監督你像譬如說本席啊一直在提出這個兩個比較\n這一些一直在著墨的就是基層同仁這個的新生就是說危險佳績的部分危險佳績的部分你去把它看看我一直在比較就是說現在整個移民署的收容脫逃的移工裡面危險佳績就是9700然後監所第一線管理人員危險津貼是4500當然我也知道已經這個\n這個整個矯正署這個地方也送出去到行政院直接借戶的部分4500調整到9700第二級是4000調整到7760那間接借戶的為止在3000那部長 我要請教就是說這條也說這麼久了 你現在是前出了安裝你也要給你的監守人員的士氣大家要給他們好 給他們鼓勵一下 現在是今年到\n這部分修正增加專業佳績以及那個危老的一個佳績危老佳績已經在7月1日已經生效了嘛生效對 已經生效了那我想這個是可以讓我們這麼辛苦的矯正同仁有一個\n一個鼓勵來圍繞矯正同仁的一個辛勞那的確是在矯正機關他那些的收容人的確都是有不少有暴力傾向的而且暴力的實際的才會在裡面所以我想在整個一個圍繞的一個津貼這的確是我們是給同仁一些的一個鼓勵真的也要給他們打氣而且真的要給他們打氣\n我要說的是 我們的矯正人員 他就司法最後一哩路的一個守門人他們守的不是只有監獄的鐵門 更是整個社會安全的一個底線讓人冒著風險 這個我是覺得沒有給一點比較合理的待遇這是不對的啦 這個大家一起努力 把他制度建制得更完善但是 人力短缺的問題 我就要請部長你再看看\n你這個矯正機關的預算緣額跟你實際上的短缺的不少人你看你就減7、8、45人你介護的人力裡面你跟收容人來比較的話是1比10.2你心理社工的部分315跟收容的你看你比說1比197\n教化人力 這個可能就必須要你特別特別去留意了你跟收容人的比數是1比141啊醫事人員這很難講嘛就是說有時候你還會到介護出來但是呢 你看你這個作業的導師跟作業科的人力裡面你現在還是由介護科管理員去做監任喔這個署長你是不是起來之後應該這個你會大道過戶你提出來 部長會跟你支持 郡馬都會跟你支持\n貪貪看你的講法你不覺得長期這樣子這個部分你們過去都沒有去處理到嗎\n是 謝謝委員關心你不可以跟人家謝謝我來看你這個謝謝委員因為的確是我們那個介護人力跟那個角度人力跟收入人力的比例我們是比日本比其他國家高很多我們這邊再來努力我們提出一下剛才那個趙委跟我們提那也謝謝\n兩位召委 關心這個 余鳳鑫啦 余鳳鑫那是說得比較老實一點 心肝很好包括所有的 包括剛剛講苗栗的那件隨機殺人我們是很痛心 所以事實上我們在建立的這些的一些的除了介護人力不足 還有社工交流人力這部分我們是不是 我們在提出一些的一些的 增編的一個計畫請委員來支持\n我看各個政黨 審判沒人要審 司法法制有人想到就是去監獄\n就都去看手手 把你損了 謝謝趙偉的一個關心因為這個監獄的確有很多我們需要可以在這盡盡的地方尤其是人力跟預算這部分犯罪後 受到法律的制裁硬爆 合理啦但問題這些都是我們的國民他只是穿著球衣啦要怎麼管理這裡你監守這裡沒有給他相對的一個武器的話這不行啦 否則光一個突發的個案\n把整個這個矯正的一個制度把它打死掉這是不對的啦這是不對的啦但是呢我也必須要再提醒就是說我們一直在講說廢除掉整個累進儲育的一個制度去納入監獄行刑法的一個做準備這個再來的重擔這新的署長就在你的手上你說現行的累進儲育碰到哪些問題你們很清楚嗎現在差不多要叫回師\n教輔導師那些 現在大家都變算數的老師你要納入 尤其是 我一直在講說剛入監的這些受刑人 他最需要支持跟教化但是現在你的分所變最多你現在寒假算最多其實整個黃金時機都錯失掉了這個整個從思維上都要去做一個改變但是 我要提出幾個問題\n你現在如果廢除掉以後 那你把他納入整個監獄刑刑法裡面你現在新制跟舊制如何要銜接我們手臂怎麼算啦 對那個壽星人他最重要的第二樣就是說 你要升階跟降級 你也要弄得清楚你到底是要用行政命令 還是要定定一個辦法這個都要未雨綢繆啦 人家你沒搞好 我能幫你支持嘛\n我們真的是會給你支持謝謝委員好不好那你這個考核標準如何去做一個統一因為現在每一個單位你的評分都不一樣你未來如何去確保整個公平\n那對整個監獄裡面的求情的一個穩定跟受刑人他的一個權益這個署長你必須要去想清楚會 會 會好不好 感謝委員 會有時候沒有你跟他會會啊沒有沒有 現在的話我們把雷金主義改為階段性處理以前雷金主義是要打分數的打得很細那結果反而給教委是帶來一個困擾每個東西剛剛委員也提到變成數學老師可是現在我們改為階段處理很清楚的我們把4321階段用那心情來切割\n在市集的話它行其實是三分之一才能進到\n我們這個社會要發生一個比較突發的案件對求情都會有所影響\n你還當真以為你送到監獄裡面去然後把他叫化出來以後他出來就變溫良 公賤 浪你想想這樣吧 沒關係 說那些人嘛立法院裡面壞人就一大堆啦講話就變騙子啦 什麼那個道德\n跟這個整個監獄裡面的受刑人來比我看都未能相比你但只是說送到監獄裡面那犯了法那本來就要應報嘛可是呢在這個應報裡面的這個過程裡面的第一線的執行人你們的同仁他當然會比較辛苦那可是呢我們也必須要讓受刑人去看到他的未來的一個希望啦這個很困難啦常常因為個案裡面社會的情緒是浮動的講道理也講不清啦\n台灣的社會以現在來看的話那個整個社會還算是穩定的我們不能因為個案去說 喔這台灣地安賣到這就行賣 賣法務部長你的責任啊\n那你就要宣誓啊 任何重大的一個犯罪你就必須要很嚴正的去做一個宣誓啊但是呢 這一個整個矯正的一個後半段這一塊你還是要做好啊 不是說發生一個事情後後面要去跟人家說 派人或是人家跟人家死這個想法也都不對啦 好不好那該缺人手的部分啦 該去把整個制度面去建置完成的司法法治委員會是一個鎖理的地方啦 尤其是翁召維啦 好不好\n好 谢谢好 谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.350 --> 00:10.088\n發言謝謝謝謝我們召委有請我們法務部正部長好請部長\n\n00:11.733 --> 00:36.261\n我們矯正署矯正署署長也上來一下好不好來委員好部長好辛苦我想今天幾個問題又要來就教了這幾天尤其是今天我看到在本會裡面的一些質詢似乎也充斥著好像是這個矯正無用論這個是聽了讓人是很大的一個感慨\n\n00:37.099 --> 00:55.132\n其實台灣的一個治安就是說到底好還是不好國人當然可以有不同的看法立法院當然有監督的一個職責更是要來督促但是你從2025年你全球這146個國家裡面國家安全的指數評比裡面去看\n\n00:56.004 --> 01:23.230\n台灣還在世界的第四暴力犯罪跟竊盜的一個比例其實這個比例還算低10萬的居民舉發犯罪從1207起裡面是2.03起的一個兇殺案這當然是在講說我們這個社會的一個治安其實控制的倒不是像外界所講的這樣子但是當然在八月份的時候澳洲這樣的一個智庫的一個統計似乎我們又有一點退步了\n\n01:23.610 --> 01:26.381\n那這個都值得我們去警惕的一個地方\n\n01:27.165 --> 01:53.758\n那這一陣子我們看發生了苗栗的一個隨機商人的一個事件外界就開始去質疑就是說我們這個整個矯正制度是不是教化失靈了這個教化到底是不是失靈然後好像又會導出這整個教化是沒有用的那乾脆把這個受刑人去關一輩子我想這是不對的接下來我請部長來看一下就是說其實我們受刑人出獄以後\n\n01:54.718 --> 02:19.235\n這兩年內裡面的再犯率你從2020年是29%到了2023年是18%從這個數字來看其實代表說82%的壽星人他是這兩年裡面他就沒有再犯了那這個矯正他其實是有用的不是說他沒有用那這個數字其實告訴我們就是說很多的矯正同仁他們的努力不是白費\n\n02:20.427 --> 02:40.552\n但是因為這個整個個案就去抹殺掉全體的一個付出好像是要把整個教化制度一棒這樣給打死我相信這也不對但接下來我必須要講的就是說我們還是有欠缺的地方你整個形式政策的靈魂就在於說你去矯正教化到最後是讓他去復歸社會而不是單純的只是報復然後切割讓所有的壽星人都完全沒有希望這也不對但是我們要做的地方\n\n02:50.234 --> 03:14.022\n其實還有很多啦我剛剛也聽到了我們我相信啦我們這麼美麗的翁小玲召委她擔任召委以後啊在這個會期裡面我們對法務部我相信我們會大力支持你們該有的預算啦翁委員跟我我們都兩個召委都會全力來支持但是該監督的部分我們也必須要去做一個監督你像譬如說本席啊一直在提出這個兩個比較\n\n03:19.072 --> 03:39.217\n這一些一直在著墨的就是基層同仁這個的新生就是說危險佳績的部分危險佳績的部分你去把它看看我一直在比較就是說現在整個移民署的收容脫逃的移工裡面危險佳績就是9700然後監所第一線管理人員危險津貼是4500當然我也知道已經這個\n\n03:41.645 --> 04:05.727\n這個整個矯正署這個地方也送出去到行政院直接借戶的部分4500調整到9700第二級是4000調整到7760那間接借戶的為止在3000那部長我要請教就是說這條也說這麼久了你現在是前出了安裝你也要給你的監守人員的士氣大家要給他們好給他們鼓勵一下現在是今年到\n\n04:07.642 --> 04:23.647\n這部分修正增加專業佳績以及那個危老的一個佳績危老佳績已經在7月1日已經生效了嘛生效對已經生效了那我想這個是可以讓我們這麼辛苦的矯正同仁有一個\n\n04:25.731 --> 04:50.461\n一個鼓勵來圍繞矯正同仁的一個辛勞那的確是在矯正機關他那些的收容人的確都是有不少有暴力傾向的而且暴力的實際的才會在裡面所以我想在整個一個圍繞的一個津貼這的確是我們是給同仁一些的一個鼓勵真的也要給他們打氣而且真的要給他們打氣\n\n04:51.401 --> 05:15.808\n我要說的是我們的矯正人員他就司法最後一哩路的一個守門人他們守的不是只有監獄的鐵門更是整個社會安全的一個底線讓人冒著風險這個我是覺得沒有給一點比較合理的待遇這是不對的啦這個大家一起努力把他制度建制得更完善但是人力短缺的問題我就要請部長你再看看\n\n05:17.168 --> 05:35.373\n你這個矯正機關的預算緣額跟你實際上的短缺的不少人你看你就減7、8、45人你介護的人力裡面你跟收容人來比較的話是1比10.2你心理社工的部分315跟收容的你看你比說1比197\n\n05:37.413 --> 05:59.105\n教化人力這個可能就必須要你特別特別去留意了你跟收容人的比數是1比141啊醫事人員這很難講嘛就是說有時候你還會到介護出來但是呢你看你這個作業的導師跟作業科的人力裡面你現在還是由介護科管理員去做監任喔這個署長你是不是起來之後應該這個你會大道過戶你提出來部長會跟你支持郡馬都會跟你支持\n\n06:05.389 --> 06:07.112\n貪貪看你的講法你不覺得長期這樣子這個部分你們過去都沒有去處理到嗎\n\n06:13.447 --> 06:34.840\n是謝謝委員關心你不可以跟人家謝謝我來看你這個謝謝委員因為的確是我們那個介護人力跟那個角度人力跟收入人力的比例我們是比日本比其他國家高很多我們這邊再來努力我們提出一下剛才那個趙委跟我們提那也謝謝\n\n06:36.000 --> 07:03.079\n兩位召委關心這個余鳳鑫啦余鳳鑫那是說得比較老實一點心肝很好包括所有的包括剛剛講苗栗的那件隨機殺人我們是很痛心所以事實上我們在建立的這些的一些的除了介護人力不足還有社工交流人力這部分我們是不是我們在提出一些的一些的增編的一個計畫請委員來支持\n\n07:03.319 --> 07:05.160\n我看各個政黨審判沒人要審司法法制有人想到就是去監獄\n\n07:22.315 --> 07:50.993\n就都去看手手把你損了謝謝趙偉的一個關心因為這個監獄的確有很多我們需要可以在這盡盡的地方尤其是人力跟預算這部分犯罪後受到法律的制裁硬爆合理啦但問題這些都是我們的國民他只是穿著球衣啦要怎麼管理這裡你監守這裡沒有給他相對的一個武器的話這不行啦否則光一個突發的個案\n\n07:52.592 --> 08:15.398\n把整個這個矯正的一個制度把它打死掉這是不對的啦這是不對的啦但是呢我也必須要再提醒就是說我們一直在講說廢除掉整個累進儲育的一個制度去納入監獄行刑法的一個做準備這個再來的重擔這新的署長就在你的手上你說現行的累進儲育碰到哪些問題你們很清楚嗎現在差不多要叫回師\n\n08:16.278 --> 08:33.425\n教輔導師那些現在大家都變算數的老師你要納入尤其是我一直在講說剛入監的這些受刑人他最需要支持跟教化但是現在你的分所變最多你現在寒假算最多其實整個黃金時機都錯失掉了這個整個從思維上都要去做一個改變但是我要提出幾個問題\n\n08:42.188 --> 09:06.276\n你現在如果廢除掉以後那你把他納入整個監獄刑刑法裡面你現在新制跟舊制如何要銜接我們手臂怎麼算啦對那個壽星人他最重要的第二樣就是說你要升階跟降級你也要弄得清楚你到底是要用行政命令還是要定定一個辦法這個都要未雨綢繆啦人家你沒搞好我能幫你支持嘛\n\n09:06.596 --> 09:08.177\n我們真的是會給你支持謝謝委員好不好那你這個考核標準如何去做一個統一因為現在每一個單位你的評分都不一樣你未來如何去確保整個公平\n\n09:16.482 --> 09:44.004\n那對整個監獄裡面的求情的一個穩定跟受刑人他的一個權益這個署長你必須要去想清楚會會會好不好感謝委員會有時候沒有你跟他會會啊沒有沒有現在的話我們把雷金主義改為階段性處理以前雷金主義是要打分數的打得很細那結果反而給教委是帶來一個困擾每個東西剛剛委員也提到變成數學老師可是現在我們改為階段處理很清楚的我們把4321階段用那心情來切割\n\n09:45.285 --> 09:48.557\n在市集的話它行其實是三分之一才能進到\n\n09:49.831 --> 09:51.531\n我們這個社會要發生一個比較突發的案件對求情都會有所影響\n\n10:18.814 --> 10:21.015\n你還當真以為你送到監獄裡面去然後把他叫化出來以後他出來就變溫良公賤浪你想想這樣吧沒關係說那些人嘛立法院裡面壞人就一大堆啦講話就變騙子啦什麼那個道德\n\n10:37.899 --> 10:44.802\n跟這個整個監獄裡面的受刑人來比我看都未能相比你但只是說送到監獄裡面那犯了法那本來就要應報嘛可是呢在這個應報裡面的這個過程裡面的第一線的執行人你們的同仁他當然會比較辛苦那可是呢我們也必須要讓受刑人去看到他的未來的一個希望啦這個很困難啦常常因為個案裡面社會的情緒是浮動的講道理也講不清啦\n\n11:06.050 --> 11:14.675\n台灣的社會以現在來看的話那個整個社會還算是穩定的我們不能因為個案去說喔這台灣地安賣到這就行賣賣法務部長你的責任啊\n\n11:18.601 --> 11:47.688\n那你就要宣誓啊任何重大的一個犯罪你就必須要很嚴正的去做一個宣誓啊但是呢這一個整個矯正的一個後半段這一塊你還是要做好啊不是說發生一個事情後後面要去跟人家說派人或是人家跟人家死這個想法也都不對啦好不好那該缺人手的部分啦該去把整個制度面去建置完成的司法法治委員會是一個鎖理的地方啦尤其是翁召維啦好不好\n\n11:48.269 --> 11:49.277\n好谢谢好谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.35,"end":10.088,"text":"發言 謝謝謝謝我們召委有請我們法務部正部長好 請部長"},{"start":11.733,"end":36.261,"text":"我們矯正署 矯正署署長也上來一下好不好來 委員好部長好 辛苦我想今天幾個問題又要來就教了這幾天尤其是今天我看到在本會裡面的一些質詢似乎也充斥著好像是這個矯正無用論這個是聽了讓人是很大的一個感慨"},{"start":37.099,"end":55.132,"text":"其實台灣的一個治安就是說到底好還是不好國人當然可以有不同的看法立法院當然有監督的一個職責更是要來督促但是你從2025年你全球這146個國家裡面國家安全的指數評比裡面去看"},{"start":56.004,"end":83.23,"text":"台灣還在世界的第四暴力犯罪跟竊盜的一個比例其實這個比例還算低10萬的居民舉發犯罪從1207起裡面是2.03起的一個兇殺案這當然是在講說我們這個社會的一個治安其實控制的倒不是像外界所講的這樣子但是當然在八月份的時候澳洲這樣的一個智庫的一個統計似乎我們又有一點退步了"},{"start":83.61,"end":86.381,"text":"那這個都值得我們去警惕的一個地方"},{"start":87.165,"end":113.758,"text":"那這一陣子我們看發生了苗栗的一個隨機商人的一個事件外界就開始去質疑就是說我們這個整個矯正制度是不是教化失靈了這個教化到底是不是失靈然後好像又會導出這整個教化是沒有用的那乾脆把這個受刑人去關一輩子我想這是不對的接下來我請部長來看一下就是說其實我們受刑人出獄以後"},{"start":114.718,"end":139.235,"text":"這兩年內裡面的再犯率你從2020年是29%到了2023年是18%從這個數字來看其實代表說82%的壽星人他是這兩年裡面他就沒有再犯了那這個矯正他其實是有用的不是說他沒有用那這個數字其實告訴我們就是說很多的矯正同仁他們的努力不是白費"},{"start":140.427,"end":160.552,"text":"但是因為這個整個個案就去抹殺掉全體的一個付出好像是要把整個教化制度一棒這樣給打死我相信這也不對但接下來我必須要講的就是說我們還是有欠缺的地方你整個形式政策的靈魂就在於說你去矯正教化到最後是讓他去復歸社會而不是單純的只是報復然後切割讓所有的壽星人都完全沒有希望這也不對但是我們要做的地方"},{"start":170.234,"end":194.022,"text":"其實還有很多啦我剛剛也聽到了我們 我相信啦我們這麼美麗的翁小玲召委她擔任召委以後啊在這個會期裡面我們對法務部我相信我們會大力支持你們該有的預算啦翁委員跟我我們都兩個召委都會全力來支持但是該監督的部分我們也必須要去做一個監督你像譬如說本席啊一直在提出這個兩個比較"},{"start":199.072,"end":219.217,"text":"這一些一直在著墨的就是基層同仁這個的新生就是說危險佳績的部分危險佳績的部分你去把它看看我一直在比較就是說現在整個移民署的收容脫逃的移工裡面危險佳績就是9700然後監所第一線管理人員危險津貼是4500當然我也知道已經這個"},{"start":221.645,"end":245.727,"text":"這個整個矯正署這個地方也送出去到行政院直接借戶的部分4500調整到9700第二級是4000調整到7760那間接借戶的為止在3000那部長 我要請教就是說這條也說這麼久了 你現在是前出了安裝你也要給你的監守人員的士氣大家要給他們好 給他們鼓勵一下 現在是今年到"},{"start":247.642,"end":263.647,"text":"這部分修正增加專業佳績以及那個危老的一個佳績危老佳績已經在7月1日已經生效了嘛生效對 已經生效了那我想這個是可以讓我們這麼辛苦的矯正同仁有一個"},{"start":265.731,"end":290.461,"text":"一個鼓勵來圍繞矯正同仁的一個辛勞那的確是在矯正機關他那些的收容人的確都是有不少有暴力傾向的而且暴力的實際的才會在裡面所以我想在整個一個圍繞的一個津貼這的確是我們是給同仁一些的一個鼓勵真的也要給他們打氣而且真的要給他們打氣"},{"start":291.401,"end":315.808,"text":"我要說的是 我們的矯正人員 他就司法最後一哩路的一個守門人他們守的不是只有監獄的鐵門 更是整個社會安全的一個底線讓人冒著風險 這個我是覺得沒有給一點比較合理的待遇這是不對的啦 這個大家一起努力 把他制度建制得更完善但是 人力短缺的問題 我就要請部長你再看看"},{"start":317.168,"end":335.373,"text":"你這個矯正機關的預算緣額跟你實際上的短缺的不少人你看你就減7、8、45人你介護的人力裡面你跟收容人來比較的話是1比10.2你心理社工的部分315跟收容的你看你比說1比197"},{"start":337.413,"end":359.105,"text":"教化人力 這個可能就必須要你特別特別去留意了你跟收容人的比數是1比141啊醫事人員這很難講嘛就是說有時候你還會到介護出來但是呢 你看你這個作業的導師跟作業科的人力裡面你現在還是由介護科管理員去做監任喔這個署長你是不是起來之後應該這個你會大道過戶你提出來 部長會跟你支持 郡馬都會跟你支持"},{"start":365.389,"end":367.112,"text":"貪貪看你的講法你不覺得長期這樣子這個部分你們過去都沒有去處理到嗎"},{"start":373.447,"end":394.84,"text":"是 謝謝委員關心你不可以跟人家謝謝我來看你這個謝謝委員因為的確是我們那個介護人力跟那個角度人力跟收入人力的比例我們是比日本比其他國家高很多我們這邊再來努力我們提出一下剛才那個趙委跟我們提那也謝謝"},{"start":396,"end":423.079,"text":"兩位召委 關心這個 余鳳鑫啦 余鳳鑫那是說得比較老實一點 心肝很好包括所有的 包括剛剛講苗栗的那件隨機殺人我們是很痛心 所以事實上我們在建立的這些的一些的除了介護人力不足 還有社工交流人力這部分我們是不是 我們在提出一些的一些的 增編的一個計畫請委員來支持"},{"start":423.319,"end":425.16,"text":"我看各個政黨 審判沒人要審 司法法制有人想到就是去監獄"},{"start":442.315,"end":470.993,"text":"就都去看手手 把你損了 謝謝趙偉的一個關心因為這個監獄的確有很多我們需要可以在這盡盡的地方尤其是人力跟預算這部分犯罪後 受到法律的制裁硬爆 合理啦但問題這些都是我們的國民他只是穿著球衣啦要怎麼管理這裡你監守這裡沒有給他相對的一個武器的話這不行啦 否則光一個突發的個案"},{"start":472.592,"end":495.398,"text":"把整個這個矯正的一個制度把它打死掉這是不對的啦這是不對的啦但是呢我也必須要再提醒就是說我們一直在講說廢除掉整個累進儲育的一個制度去納入監獄行刑法的一個做準備這個再來的重擔這新的署長就在你的手上你說現行的累進儲育碰到哪些問題你們很清楚嗎現在差不多要叫回師"},{"start":496.278,"end":513.425,"text":"教輔導師那些 現在大家都變算數的老師你要納入 尤其是 我一直在講說剛入監的這些受刑人 他最需要支持跟教化但是現在你的分所變最多你現在寒假算最多其實整個黃金時機都錯失掉了這個整個從思維上都要去做一個改變但是 我要提出幾個問題"},{"start":522.188,"end":546.276,"text":"你現在如果廢除掉以後 那你把他納入整個監獄刑刑法裡面你現在新制跟舊制如何要銜接我們手臂怎麼算啦 對那個壽星人他最重要的第二樣就是說 你要升階跟降級 你也要弄得清楚你到底是要用行政命令 還是要定定一個辦法這個都要未雨綢繆啦 人家你沒搞好 我能幫你支持嘛"},{"start":546.596,"end":548.177,"text":"我們真的是會給你支持謝謝委員好不好那你這個考核標準如何去做一個統一因為現在每一個單位你的評分都不一樣你未來如何去確保整個公平"},{"start":556.482,"end":584.004,"text":"那對整個監獄裡面的求情的一個穩定跟受刑人他的一個權益這個署長你必須要去想清楚會 會 會好不好 感謝委員 會有時候沒有你跟他會會啊沒有沒有 現在的話我們把雷金主義改為階段性處理以前雷金主義是要打分數的打得很細那結果反而給教委是帶來一個困擾每個東西剛剛委員也提到變成數學老師可是現在我們改為階段處理很清楚的我們把4321階段用那心情來切割"},{"start":585.285,"end":588.557,"text":"在市集的話它行其實是三分之一才能進到"},{"start":589.831,"end":591.531,"text":"我們這個社會要發生一個比較突發的案件對求情都會有所影響"},{"start":618.814,"end":621.015,"text":"你還當真以為你送到監獄裡面去然後把他叫化出來以後他出來就變溫良 公賤 浪你想想這樣吧 沒關係 說那些人嘛立法院裡面壞人就一大堆啦講話就變騙子啦 什麼那個道德"},{"start":637.899,"end":644.802,"text":"跟這個整個監獄裡面的受刑人來比我看都未能相比你但只是說送到監獄裡面那犯了法那本來就要應報嘛可是呢在這個應報裡面的這個過程裡面的第一線的執行人你們的同仁他當然會比較辛苦那可是呢我們也必須要讓受刑人去看到他的未來的一個希望啦這個很困難啦常常因為個案裡面社會的情緒是浮動的講道理也講不清啦"},{"start":666.05,"end":674.675,"text":"台灣的社會以現在來看的話那個整個社會還算是穩定的我們不能因為個案去說 喔這台灣地安賣到這就行賣 賣法務部長你的責任啊"},{"start":678.601,"end":707.688,"text":"那你就要宣誓啊 任何重大的一個犯罪你就必須要很嚴正的去做一個宣誓啊但是呢 這一個整個矯正的一個後半段這一塊你還是要做好啊 不是說發生一個事情後後面要去跟人家說 派人或是人家跟人家死這個想法也都不對啦 好不好那該缺人手的部分啦 該去把整個制度面去建置完成的司法法治委員會是一個鎖理的地方啦 尤其是翁召維啦 好不好"},{"start":708.269,"end":709.277,"text":"好 谢谢好 谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1178,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（11時55分）謝謝召委，有請法務部鄭部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["莊委員瑞雄：矯正署署長也上來一下，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長好，辛苦了。今天有幾個問題就教。這幾天，尤其是今天，本席看到本會的一些質詢似乎充斥著矯正無用論，讓人聽了很感慨。臺灣的治安到底好還是不好？國人當然可以有不同看法，立法院也有監督的職責，而且更要督促。但是從2025年全球146個國家的國家安全指數評比來看，臺灣排在世界第四名，暴力犯罪和竊盜比例還算低，每10萬人僅發生1,207起犯罪，其中只有2.3起凶殺案，這當然是指我們社會治安的控制程度不像外界說的這樣。","但是8月份的時候，根據澳洲一個智庫的統計，我們似乎又有一點退步，這都是值得我們警惕的地方。這陣子發生苗栗的隨機傷人事件，外界都開始質疑我們的矯正制度是不是教化失靈。教化到底是不是失靈？接著好像又導出教化是沒有用的，乾脆把受刑人關一輩子的結論。本席認為這是不對的。接下來本席要請部長看一下，受刑人出獄以後兩年內的再犯率，2020年是29%，到了2023年是18%，從這個數字來看，代表82%的受刑人兩年內沒有再犯，所以這個矯正其實是有用的，並不是沒有用。","這個數字也告訴我們，很多矯正同仁的努力並沒有白費，但是因為這個個案就抹殺全體的付出，好像要把整個教化制度一棒打死，本席相信這也不對啦！但接下來本席必須說的是，我們還是有欠缺的地方，整個刑事政策的靈魂就在於矯正教化之後，最後是讓他復歸社會，而不是單純只是報復、切割，讓所有受刑人完全沒有希望，因為這樣也不對，但是我們要做的其實還有很多。","本席剛剛也聽到了，本席相信這麼美麗的翁曉玲召委擔任召委以後，這個會期對法務部會大力支持，你們該有的預算，翁委員和本席兩個召委都會全力支持，但是該監督的部分，我們也必須監督。例如本席提出的兩個議題，之前一直著墨這個部分，這也是基層同仁的心聲，就是危險加給。關於危險加給，你可以去看看，我一直在比較嘛！現在移民署收容脫逃移工，危險加給是9,700元，但監所第一線管理人員的危險津貼是4,500元。","當然，本席也知道矯正署的方案已經送到行政院，戒護的部分從4,500元調整到9,700元，第二級是4,000元調整到7,760元，間接戒護維持在3,000元。部長，本席要請教的是，因為這件事情我們說了很久，你們現在爭取得如何？有沒有好消息？為了監所人員的士氣，大家應該要好好鼓勵一下他們。現在進行到哪裡？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分是修正增加專業加給以及危勞加給，危勞加給7月1日已經生效了嘛！"],["莊委員瑞雄：對。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個部分可以給我們辛苦的矯正同仁一個鼓勵，慰勞矯正同仁的辛勞。在矯正機關的收容人，的確不少有暴力傾向，而且是有暴力實際案例的才會在裡面，所以給予危勞津貼的確能夠給同仁一些鼓勵。"],["莊委員瑞雄：真的要給他們打氣啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：真的要給他們打氣。"],["莊委員瑞雄：本席要說的是，矯正人員是司法最後一哩路的守門人，他們守的不只是監獄的鐵門，更是整個社會安全的底線。他們冒著風險，本席覺得如果沒有比較合理的待遇是不對的，這個部分也需要大家一起努力，把制度建置得更完善。但是人力短缺的問題，本席也要請部長再看一下，因為矯正機關的預算員額和實際員額相比，短缺不少人，你們就少了745人。","戒護人力和收容人比是1比10.2，心理社工的部分是315人，和收容人的比例是1比197。至於教化人力，這個部分就需要你特別留意了，因為和收容人的比例是1比141。另外是醫事人員，這部分很難說，因為有時候會戒護就醫。但是你看作業導師和作業科人力，現在還是由戒護科管理員兼任。署長，你上任之後針對這個部分應該要大刀闊斧改革，只要你拿出方案，部長會支持你，我們也都會支持。"],["林署長憲銘：謝謝委員關心。"],["莊委員瑞雄：談談你的想法。你是不是覺得長期以來都是這樣？因為你是由副轉正，這個部分你們過去都沒有處理嗎？"],["林署長憲銘：是，謝謝委員關心。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你不能只說謝謝，本席想知道你會怎麼做。"],["林署長憲銘：我們會提數據給部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員。的確，我們的戒護人力、矯正人力和收容人的比例，是比日本或其他國家高很多，這部分會再努力，也會提出計畫，剛才召委向我們提過，也謝謝兩位召委關心矯正人力。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你放心啦！翁召委只是說話比較大聲而已，其實心地很好，一定會支持你們。"],["鄭部長銘謙：包括剛才說的苗栗那件隨機殺人案，我們是很痛心，所以監獄這些措施，除了戒護人力不足，還有社工、教化人力這個部分，我們是不是再提出一些增編計畫？也請委員支持。"],["莊委員瑞雄：一定會支持，但是這個部分要做好，因為這個部分長期都沒有讓它更完善嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們的矯正同仁真的很可憐、很辛苦。"],["莊委員瑞雄：當然。所以這就要看你們的努力啦！你們要拿出計畫，我們會支持。這個會期各政黨都是審到無案可審，司法及法制委員會想到的就是監獄的部分，所以都到看守所考察。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝召委的關心。監獄的確有很多可以再精進的地方，尤其是人力和預算的部分。"],["莊委員瑞雄：犯罪之後受到法律制裁，這是應報，合理啦！但問題是這些都是我們的國民，只是穿著囚衣，所以要怎麼管理這些人？如果沒有給監所的人相對的武器，這樣是不行的。否則光是一個突發的個案，就會一棒把整個矯正制度打死，這是不對的。但是本席也必須再提醒，我們一直在說要廢除累進處遇的制度，為納入監獄行刑法做準備，這個重擔就在新任署長的身上。","現行的累進處遇碰到哪些問題？你們很清楚嘛！現在教誨師、輔導師大概都變成算術老師了。尤其是本席一直在說的，剛入監的受刑人最需要支持和教化，但是現在這些人的分數是最低的，限制也最多，其實這樣黃金時機都錯失了，所以從思維方面都要改變。另外本席要提出幾個問題，現在如果廢除累進處遇，把它納入監獄行刑法，那麼新制和舊制如何銜接？分數要怎麼算？這對受刑人是最重要的。","第二，要升階或降級也要規定清楚，你們到底是要用行政命令？還是要訂定辦法？這些都要未雨綢繆啦！如果人不夠，我們可以支持你們，我們真的會支持，好不好？"],["林署長憲銘：謝謝委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：但是考核標準如何統一？以前每個單位的評分都不一樣，未來如何確保公平？關於監獄裡面的囚情穩定和受刑人的權益，這些署長都必須想清楚。好不好？"],["林署長憲銘：會的，感謝委員。"],["莊委員瑞雄：有想過嗎？你只回答「會」，答詢有這麼簡單嗎？只說兩句話就好了。"],["林署長憲銘：現在我們把累進處遇改為階段性處遇，以前累進處遇是要打分數的，而且打得很細，結果反而給教誨師帶來困擾，剛剛委員也提到每個人都變成數學老師。可是現在我們改為階段處遇，很清楚的分為四、三、二、一階段，用他的刑期切割，四級的話，刑期三分之一才能進入三級，六分之一進到二級，再六分之一進到一級。我們用刑期很清楚的切割，然後用他的違規和獎勵做直接的具體考核，只要他違規就要扣點數，延長他晉級的時間，如果有嘉獎就能加點數，這樣就能提早晉級等等，我們有一套評分機制。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我們這個社會只要發生一個突發案件，對囚情都會有所影響。的確有些收容人出獄後又犯案，難道你當真以為送到監獄教化，出獄後就會變得溫良恭儉讓？你想太多了吧！即使不是被關的人，光是立法院的壞人就一大堆，說話也很嗆，以道德層面來說，和監獄裡面的受刑人相比，本席認為未必能相比擬。送到監獄是因為他犯了法，本來就要應報嘛！可是在這個應報的過程，你們第一線的執行同仁當然會比較辛苦，但我們也必須讓受刑人看到未來的希望。"],["林署長憲銘：會的。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個很困難啦！常常因為個案導致社會的情緒浮動，道理也說不清。以現在來看的話，臺灣社會還算穩定，我們不能因為個案就說臺灣的治安不好到這種程度。治安不好是法務部長的責任，發生任何重大犯罪時，你就必須很嚴正的宣示，但是整個矯正、即後半段這一塊還是要做好啊！不能因為發生一起事件，就讓人認為這些壞人應該被關到死，這些想法也都不對啦！好不好？對於缺人手該把整個制度面建置完成的部分，司法及法制委員會是一個說理的地方，尤其是翁召委。謝謝。"],["林署長憲銘：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，我跟莊召委學習。","接下來請賴惠員委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","吳宗憲","王義川","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅智強","傅崐萁","賴士葆","林楚茵","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","林倩綺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00001"}}}