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535.086, \"end\": 535.106, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 535.686, \"end\": 536.007, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 536.007, \"end\": 536.147, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 536.147, \"end\": 536.569, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 536.569, \"end\": 537.271, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 537.271, \"end\": 537.551, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 537.551, \"end\": 537.712, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 537.712, \"end\": 537.912, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 537.912, \"end\": 538.053, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 538.053, \"end\": 538.353, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 538.353, \"end\": 538.574, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 538.574, \"end\": 538.594, \"score\": 0.217}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,390 --> 00:00:02,092\n好請林委員發言謝謝好謝謝我們主席昭緯請一下這個我們法務部部長請部長\n\n2\n00:00:16,316 --> 00:00:41,886\n部長您好本席在這邊首先要先談的是跟憲法保障還有人權尊嚴有關的一個議題也就是原住民族的司法權益在去年8月監察院的司法及域政委員會通過了監委王美玉的一個調查報告指出在太魯閣的一個行賄案件當中檢警沒有落實對原住民族司法權益的保障\n\n3\n00:00:42,526 --> 00:01:12,069\n那這個報告裡面把整個個案的瑕疵有點出來但是反映的也是一個整個制度長期的結構性的一個缺陷那這個個案是呢一個太魯閣的李姓婦人跟他的共犯在這起案件裡面那他們是太魯閣族的但是呢檢警知道他們是太魯閣族的但卻沒有確認他們是不是要使用族語來應訊那他們甚至自己判斷檢警自行判斷說能講國語就不用通\n\n4\n00:01:14,212 --> 00:01:26,830\n這個有很大的一個缺失這顯示出一個行政方便來凌駕人權這樣子的辦案文化不是只有程序的瑕疵而是對原住民族司法保障的一個掏空\n\n5\n00:01:27,711 --> 00:01:52,683\n那您知道嗎在各個語言後面有一些社會文化邏輯的背景那這個不是我們用一般我們認為的一個想法就可以去了解這需要更多的一個同理學習跟了解所以呢在這個部分監察院又更進一步的在指出目前地檢署原住民的通譯在主語的語別\n\n6\n00:01:53,203 --> 00:02:17,586\n跟人數上跟實際的案件需求是嚴重的失衡也就是說基本上是不夠的人也不夠語言別也不夠因為原民會的資料我們在原住民族我想部長應該知道目前有16個族裔那42種方言別那檢察署現在的通譯只有7種族裔連一半都不到\n\n7\n00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:45,673\n那這樣子的落差在原住民族司法程序當中難免有的時候在母語方面沒有辦法完整的表達那在思維方面可能也不是太多人能夠理解所以沒有辦法確切的公述真實的程序跟你們所認為的正當性所以本席在這邊要提醒法務部根據原住民族基本法第30條國家有義務要提供足夠的族語通譯\n\n8\n00:02:46,713 --> 00:03:00,060\n而不是由偵辦人員用他有限制的知識來片面判斷是不是有需要同意再則在ICERD消除一切形式種族歧視的國際公約當中\n\n9\n00:03:07,924 --> 00:03:27,319\n以及司法的國事會議裡面都已經決議明確地要求建立完整的援助民族司法通譯制度確保弱勢的族群在訴訟當中不會因為語言與文化的差異而受到不公平的對待\n\n10\n00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:52,571\n所以本席在這邊要具體的請教法務部這一年是盤點了全國各級檢察署通譯人力與別與案件的需求嗎那目前補足的計畫是如何第二個部分是檢察官的實務現況是不是能夠及時調度通譯那請部長是不是可以針對這個部分給本席回應\n\n11\n00:03:54,372 --> 00:04:14,547\n謝謝委員那目前的那個同意我們在原住民組這邊的同意這部分我們有特約的一個同意其實剛才提到的目前只有7種的語言別這個部分你們是怎麼處理呢目前是有18種有8種目前有8種18種\n\n12\n00:04:18,567 --> 00:04:34,398\n八族有八族的語言就是從去年到今年應該從七族多到了就是八族的語言那目前是有37位目前37位那跟你們的這個案量來比應該目前還是失衡的吧\n\n13\n00:04:35,338 --> 00:04:57,289\n這部分我們再來做一個了解是不是請部長這邊了解一下部署的話是有臨時的同意臨時的同意就是有各檢察署它是有元宇基金會的元宇人才的資料庫跟司法院移民署的機關的同意人才庫來尋求臨時的同意來應這個特約同意的部署的這一個部分\n\n14\n00:04:57,689 --> 00:05:18,371\n本席今天把這個部分點出來你是不是可以把相關更精細的資訊給本席的辦公室讓我們了解一下目前失衡的狀況你們捕捉的一個狀態是如何精進的這部分我們再來就順便報告跟委員做一個說明最重要就是說司法希望每個人能夠被理解被傾聽所以當一個原住民的婦人\n\n15\n00:05:18,871 --> 00:05:40,645\n因為語言的隔閡結果喪失了一個辯護權這不是只有個案的悲哀而是對國家弱勢很失職的一個證明所以希望法務部能夠針對上訴的問題的改善方案然後有一個時程那是不是部長這邊針對本期所提到的這個問題您覺得多久時間可以改善到什麼程度\n\n16\n00:05:44,838 --> 00:05:59,729\n我們就先盡快給本席一個時程好不好你們也研究了解一下好嗎是好謝謝接下來本席要針對追蹤是追蹤本席有提過的就是第一線矯正專業人員的待遇的問題\n\n17\n00:06:01,030 --> 00:06:22,015\n那剛才在前面質詢的莊委員跟賴委員都有非常關心矯正相關人員就是在這個處遇之後呢再犯還有是不是有效這樣一個問題那本席這邊指出來的就是這個矯正是否有用論跟執行的人員也有很大的關係\n\n18\n00:06:23,135 --> 00:06:32,000\n所以剛才其實他們在討論的時候呢也有點出一些問題那本席在今年的六月質詢之後呢本席質詢的是針對矯正機關外聘人員執行專業諮詢治療\n\n19\n00:06:40,125 --> 00:06:52,218\n輔導評估及授課處遇費用支給表長期大概有十年都沒有做調整的這個部分是本席在六月份質詢的時候所提出來的所以剛才莊委員有提到你們好像變一種數字遊戲啦\n\n20\n00:06:53,780 --> 00:07:10,308\n但是在量化的不足的這個部分如何用質化來補足這個第一線的人員的這個知己就非常的重要所以剛才本席所談到這個知己是從民國101年核定到今天\n\n21\n00:07:11,028 --> 00:07:35,311\n10年都沒有人去注意也沒有調整那期間的基本工資也已經調漲了52%那這整整遠低於衛福部或社安計畫網的行情標準那我想矯正署你們應該也是了解啦這樣子的待遇導致外聘的醫師心理師社工師流動率應該很高吧那聘用也困難處遇的這個品質也下降本席想請教法務部\n\n22\n00:07:36,692 --> 00:08:04,550\n這項草案應該就我們的了解那矯正署應該送到法務部了嘛所以這個目前這個草案目前進行到什麼階段什麼時候可以實施能不能夠具體的承諾在今年前能夠完成核定與發布讓這樣一個新的標準準時的上路盡快的上路那未來是不是也可以建立定期的一個檢討制度避免十年才被發現十年才調整一次的荒謬現象\n\n23\n00:08:05,730 --> 00:08:24,380\n謝謝我們的關心關於這一點的話我們有提出這樣的一個調生案目前得到訊息是應該是有通過的只是說我還沒看到確認有通過嗎就法務部這邊這個已經假設屬韓報本部本部已經韓報行政院因為這個終點費的調整是屬於行政院的權責\n\n24\n00:08:26,181 --> 00:08:55,106\n所以法務部這邊已經送到行政院了嘛所以矯正署送到法務部法務部已經送出去法務部到行政院了目前是這個階段是嗎是好好謝謝那很感謝啦感謝矯正署做了這樣一個薪資調整的這個草案那也感謝法務部的支持那接下去本席會繼續針對這樣一個第一線人員的薪資知己的提高然後讓我們整個效度整個在矯正處遇上的效度能夠提高我想這應該是包括我們召委包括我們主席包括許多委員\n\n25\n00:08:55,686 --> 00:08:58,594\n都關心的這樣一個議題那請大家一起來支持謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n390\t2092\t好 請林委員發言 謝謝好 謝謝我們主席 昭緯請一下這個我們法務部部長請部長\n16316\t41886\t部長您好本席在這邊首先要先談的是跟憲法保障還有人權尊嚴有關的一個議題也就是原住民族的司法權益在去年8月監察院的司法及域政委員會通過了監委王美玉的一個調查報告指出在太魯閣的一個行賄案件當中檢警沒有落實對原住民族司法權益的保障\n42526\t72069\t那這個報告裡面把整個個案的瑕疵有點出來但是反映的也是一個整個制度長期的結構性的一個缺陷那這個個案是呢一個太魯閣的李姓婦人跟他的共犯在這起案件裡面那他們是太魯閣族的但是呢檢警知道他們是太魯閣族的但卻沒有確認他們是不是要使用族語來應訊那他們甚至自己判斷檢警自行判斷說能講國語就不用通\n74212\t86830\t這個有很大的一個缺失這顯示出一個行政方便來凌駕人權這樣子的辦案文化不是只有程序的瑕疵而是對原住民族司法保障的一個掏空\n87711\t112683\t那您知道嗎在各個語言後面有一些社會文化邏輯的背景那這個不是我們用一般我們認為的一個想法就可以去了解這需要更多的一個同理學習跟了解所以呢在這個部分監察院又更進一步的在指出目前地檢署原住民的通譯在主語的語別\n113203\t137586\t跟人數上跟實際的案件需求是嚴重的失衡也就是說基本上是不夠的人也不夠語言別也不夠因為原民會的資料我們在原住民族我想部長應該知道目前有16個族裔那42種方言別那檢察署現在的通譯只有7種族裔連一半都不到\n138166\t165673\t那這樣子的落差在原住民族司法程序當中難免有的時候在母語方面沒有辦法完整的表達那在思維方面可能也不是太多人能夠理解所以沒有辦法確切的公述真實的程序跟你們所認為的正當性所以本席在這邊要提醒法務部根據原住民族基本法第30條國家有義務要提供足夠的族語通譯\n166713\t180060\t而不是由偵辦人員用他有限制的知識來片面判斷是不是有需要同意再則在ICERD消除一切形式種族歧視的國際公約當中\n187924\t207319\t以及司法的國事會議裡面都已經決議明確地要求建立完整的援助民族司法通譯制度確保弱勢的族群在訴訟當中不會因為語言與文化的差異而受到不公平的對待\n208200\t232571\t所以本席在這邊要具體的請教法務部這一年是盤點了全國各級檢察署通譯人力與別與案件的需求嗎那目前補足的計畫是如何第二個部分是檢察官的實務現況是不是能夠及時調度通譯那請部長是不是可以針對這個部分給本席回應\n234372\t254547\t謝謝委員那目前的那個同意我們在原住民組這邊的同意這部分我們有特約的一個同意其實剛才提到的目前只有7種的語言別這個部分你們是怎麼處理呢目前是有18種有8種目前有8種18種\n258567\t274398\t八族 有八族的語言就是從去年到今年應該從七族多到了就是八族的語言那目前是有37位目前37位那跟你們的這個案量來比應該目前還是失衡的吧\n275338\t297289\t這部分我們再來做一個了解 是不是請部長這邊了解一下部署的話是有臨時的同意 臨時的同意就是有各檢察署它是有元宇基金會的元宇人才的資料庫跟司法院移民署的機關的同意人才庫來尋求臨時的同意來應這個特約同意的部署的這一個部分\n297689\t318371\t本席今天把這個部分點出來你是不是可以把相關更精細的資訊給本席的辦公室讓我們了解一下目前失衡的狀況你們捕捉的一個狀態是如何精進的這部分我們再來就順便報告跟委員做一個說明最重要就是說司法希望每個人能夠被理解被傾聽所以當一個原住民的婦人\n318871\t340645\t因為語言的隔閡結果喪失了一個辯護權這不是只有個案的悲哀而是對國家弱勢很失職的一個證明所以希望法務部能夠針對上訴的問題的改善方案然後有一個時程那是不是部長這邊針對本期所提到的這個問題您覺得多久時間可以改善到什麼程度\n344838\t359729\t我們就先盡快給本席一個時程好不好你們也研究了解一下好嗎是好 謝謝接下來本席要針對追蹤是追蹤本席有提過的就是第一線矯正專業人員的待遇的問題\n361030\t382015\t那剛才在前面質詢的莊委員跟賴委員都有非常關心矯正相關人員就是在這個處遇之後呢再犯還有是不是有效這樣一個問題那本席這邊指出來的就是這個矯正是否有用論跟執行的人員也有很大的關係\n383135\t392000\t所以剛才其實他們在討論的時候呢也有點出一些問題那本席在今年的六月質詢之後呢本席質詢的是針對矯正機關外聘人員執行專業諮詢治療\n400125\t412218\t輔導評估及授課處遇費用支給表長期大概有十年都沒有做調整的這個部分是本席在六月份質詢的時候所提出來的所以剛才莊委員有提到你們好像變一種數字遊戲啦\n413780\t430308\t但是在量化的不足的這個部分如何用質化來補足這個第一線的人員的這個知己就非常的重要所以剛才本席所談到這個知己是從民國101年核定到今天\n431028\t455311\t10年都沒有人去注意也沒有調整那期間的基本工資也已經調漲了52%那這整整遠低於衛福部或社安計畫網的行情標準那我想矯正署你們應該也是了解啦這樣子的待遇導致外聘的醫師心理師社工師流動率應該很高吧那聘用也困難處遇的這個品質也下降本席想請教法務部\n456692\t484550\t這項草案應該就我們的了解那矯正署應該送到法務部了嘛所以這個目前這個草案目前進行到什麼階段什麼時候可以實施能不能夠具體的承諾在今年前能夠完成核定與發布讓這樣一個新的標準準時的上路盡快的上路那未來是不是也可以建立定期的一個檢討制度避免十年才被發現十年才調整一次的荒謬現象\n485730\t504380\t謝謝我們的關心 關於這一點的話我們有提出這樣的一個調生案目前得到訊息是應該是有通過的只是說我還沒看到確認有通過嗎 就法務部這邊這個已經 假設屬韓報本部本部已經韓報行政院因為這個終點費的調整是屬於行政院的權責\n506181\t535106\t所以法務部這邊已經送到行政院了嘛所以矯正署送到法務部法務部已經送出去法務部到行政院了目前是這個階段是嗎是好好謝謝那很感謝啦感謝矯正署做了這樣一個薪資調整的這個草案那也感謝法務部的支持那接下去本席會繼續針對這樣一個第一線人員的薪資知己的提高然後讓我們整個效度整個在矯正處遇上的效度能夠提高我想這應該是包括我們召委包括我們主席包括許多委員\n535686\t538594\t都關心的這樣一個議題那請大家一起來支持謝謝\n","txt":"好 請林委員發言 謝謝好 謝謝我們主席 昭緯請一下這個我們法務部部長請部長\n部長您好本席在這邊首先要先談的是跟憲法保障還有人權尊嚴有關的一個議題也就是原住民族的司法權益在去年8月監察院的司法及域政委員會通過了監委王美玉的一個調查報告指出在太魯閣的一個行賄案件當中檢警沒有落實對原住民族司法權益的保障\n那這個報告裡面把整個個案的瑕疵有點出來但是反映的也是一個整個制度長期的結構性的一個缺陷那這個個案是呢一個太魯閣的李姓婦人跟他的共犯在這起案件裡面那他們是太魯閣族的但是呢檢警知道他們是太魯閣族的但卻沒有確認他們是不是要使用族語來應訊那他們甚至自己判斷檢警自行判斷說能講國語就不用通\n這個有很大的一個缺失這顯示出一個行政方便來凌駕人權這樣子的辦案文化不是只有程序的瑕疵而是對原住民族司法保障的一個掏空\n那您知道嗎在各個語言後面有一些社會文化邏輯的背景那這個不是我們用一般我們認為的一個想法就可以去了解這需要更多的一個同理學習跟了解所以呢在這個部分監察院又更進一步的在指出目前地檢署原住民的通譯在主語的語別\n跟人數上跟實際的案件需求是嚴重的失衡也就是說基本上是不夠的人也不夠語言別也不夠因為原民會的資料我們在原住民族我想部長應該知道目前有16個族裔那42種方言別那檢察署現在的通譯只有7種族裔連一半都不到\n那這樣子的落差在原住民族司法程序當中難免有的時候在母語方面沒有辦法完整的表達那在思維方面可能也不是太多人能夠理解所以沒有辦法確切的公述真實的程序跟你們所認為的正當性所以本席在這邊要提醒法務部根據原住民族基本法第30條國家有義務要提供足夠的族語通譯\n而不是由偵辦人員用他有限制的知識來片面判斷是不是有需要同意再則在ICERD消除一切形式種族歧視的國際公約當中\n以及司法的國事會議裡面都已經決議明確地要求建立完整的援助民族司法通譯制度確保弱勢的族群在訴訟當中不會因為語言與文化的差異而受到不公平的對待\n所以本席在這邊要具體的請教法務部這一年是盤點了全國各級檢察署通譯人力與別與案件的需求嗎那目前補足的計畫是如何第二個部分是檢察官的實務現況是不是能夠及時調度通譯那請部長是不是可以針對這個部分給本席回應\n謝謝委員那目前的那個同意我們在原住民組這邊的同意這部分我們有特約的一個同意其實剛才提到的目前只有7種的語言別這個部分你們是怎麼處理呢目前是有18種有8種目前有8種18種\n八族 有八族的語言就是從去年到今年應該從七族多到了就是八族的語言那目前是有37位目前37位那跟你們的這個案量來比應該目前還是失衡的吧\n這部分我們再來做一個了解 是不是請部長這邊了解一下部署的話是有臨時的同意 臨時的同意就是有各檢察署它是有元宇基金會的元宇人才的資料庫跟司法院移民署的機關的同意人才庫來尋求臨時的同意來應這個特約同意的部署的這一個部分\n本席今天把這個部分點出來你是不是可以把相關更精細的資訊給本席的辦公室讓我們了解一下目前失衡的狀況你們捕捉的一個狀態是如何精進的這部分我們再來就順便報告跟委員做一個說明最重要就是說司法希望每個人能夠被理解被傾聽所以當一個原住民的婦人\n因為語言的隔閡結果喪失了一個辯護權這不是只有個案的悲哀而是對國家弱勢很失職的一個證明所以希望法務部能夠針對上訴的問題的改善方案然後有一個時程那是不是部長這邊針對本期所提到的這個問題您覺得多久時間可以改善到什麼程度\n我們就先盡快給本席一個時程好不好你們也研究了解一下好嗎是好 謝謝接下來本席要針對追蹤是追蹤本席有提過的就是第一線矯正專業人員的待遇的問題\n那剛才在前面質詢的莊委員跟賴委員都有非常關心矯正相關人員就是在這個處遇之後呢再犯還有是不是有效這樣一個問題那本席這邊指出來的就是這個矯正是否有用論跟執行的人員也有很大的關係\n所以剛才其實他們在討論的時候呢也有點出一些問題那本席在今年的六月質詢之後呢本席質詢的是針對矯正機關外聘人員執行專業諮詢治療\n輔導評估及授課處遇費用支給表長期大概有十年都沒有做調整的這個部分是本席在六月份質詢的時候所提出來的所以剛才莊委員有提到你們好像變一種數字遊戲啦\n但是在量化的不足的這個部分如何用質化來補足這個第一線的人員的這個知己就非常的重要所以剛才本席所談到這個知己是從民國101年核定到今天\n10年都沒有人去注意也沒有調整那期間的基本工資也已經調漲了52%那這整整遠低於衛福部或社安計畫網的行情標準那我想矯正署你們應該也是了解啦這樣子的待遇導致外聘的醫師心理師社工師流動率應該很高吧那聘用也困難處遇的這個品質也下降本席想請教法務部\n這項草案應該就我們的了解那矯正署應該送到法務部了嘛所以這個目前這個草案目前進行到什麼階段什麼時候可以實施能不能夠具體的承諾在今年前能夠完成核定與發布讓這樣一個新的標準準時的上路盡快的上路那未來是不是也可以建立定期的一個檢討制度避免十年才被發現十年才調整一次的荒謬現象\n謝謝我們的關心 關於這一點的話我們有提出這樣的一個調生案目前得到訊息是應該是有通過的只是說我還沒看到確認有通過嗎 就法務部這邊這個已經 假設屬韓報本部本部已經韓報行政院因為這個終點費的調整是屬於行政院的權責\n所以法務部這邊已經送到行政院了嘛所以矯正署送到法務部法務部已經送出去法務部到行政院了目前是這個階段是嗎是好好謝謝那很感謝啦感謝矯正署做了這樣一個薪資調整的這個草案那也感謝法務部的支持那接下去本席會繼續針對這樣一個第一線人員的薪資知己的提高然後讓我們整個效度整個在矯正處遇上的效度能夠提高我想這應該是包括我們召委包括我們主席包括許多委員\n都關心的這樣一個議題那請大家一起來支持謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.390 --> 00:02.092\n好請林委員發言謝謝好謝謝我們主席昭緯請一下這個我們法務部部長請部長\n\n00:16.316 --> 00:41.886\n部長您好本席在這邊首先要先談的是跟憲法保障還有人權尊嚴有關的一個議題也就是原住民族的司法權益在去年8月監察院的司法及域政委員會通過了監委王美玉的一個調查報告指出在太魯閣的一個行賄案件當中檢警沒有落實對原住民族司法權益的保障\n\n00:42.526 --> 01:12.069\n那這個報告裡面把整個個案的瑕疵有點出來但是反映的也是一個整個制度長期的結構性的一個缺陷那這個個案是呢一個太魯閣的李姓婦人跟他的共犯在這起案件裡面那他們是太魯閣族的但是呢檢警知道他們是太魯閣族的但卻沒有確認他們是不是要使用族語來應訊那他們甚至自己判斷檢警自行判斷說能講國語就不用通\n\n01:14.212 --> 01:26.830\n這個有很大的一個缺失這顯示出一個行政方便來凌駕人權這樣子的辦案文化不是只有程序的瑕疵而是對原住民族司法保障的一個掏空\n\n01:27.711 --> 01:52.683\n那您知道嗎在各個語言後面有一些社會文化邏輯的背景那這個不是我們用一般我們認為的一個想法就可以去了解這需要更多的一個同理學習跟了解所以呢在這個部分監察院又更進一步的在指出目前地檢署原住民的通譯在主語的語別\n\n01:53.203 --> 02:17.586\n跟人數上跟實際的案件需求是嚴重的失衡也就是說基本上是不夠的人也不夠語言別也不夠因為原民會的資料我們在原住民族我想部長應該知道目前有16個族裔那42種方言別那檢察署現在的通譯只有7種族裔連一半都不到\n\n02:18.166 --> 02:45.673\n那這樣子的落差在原住民族司法程序當中難免有的時候在母語方面沒有辦法完整的表達那在思維方面可能也不是太多人能夠理解所以沒有辦法確切的公述真實的程序跟你們所認為的正當性所以本席在這邊要提醒法務部根據原住民族基本法第30條國家有義務要提供足夠的族語通譯\n\n02:46.713 --> 03:00.060\n而不是由偵辦人員用他有限制的知識來片面判斷是不是有需要同意再則在ICERD消除一切形式種族歧視的國際公約當中\n\n03:07.924 --> 03:27.319\n以及司法的國事會議裡面都已經決議明確地要求建立完整的援助民族司法通譯制度確保弱勢的族群在訴訟當中不會因為語言與文化的差異而受到不公平的對待\n\n03:28.200 --> 03:52.571\n所以本席在這邊要具體的請教法務部這一年是盤點了全國各級檢察署通譯人力與別與案件的需求嗎那目前補足的計畫是如何第二個部分是檢察官的實務現況是不是能夠及時調度通譯那請部長是不是可以針對這個部分給本席回應\n\n03:54.372 --> 04:14.547\n謝謝委員那目前的那個同意我們在原住民組這邊的同意這部分我們有特約的一個同意其實剛才提到的目前只有7種的語言別這個部分你們是怎麼處理呢目前是有18種有8種目前有8種18種\n\n04:18.567 --> 04:34.398\n八族有八族的語言就是從去年到今年應該從七族多到了就是八族的語言那目前是有37位目前37位那跟你們的這個案量來比應該目前還是失衡的吧\n\n04:35.338 --> 04:57.289\n這部分我們再來做一個了解是不是請部長這邊了解一下部署的話是有臨時的同意臨時的同意就是有各檢察署它是有元宇基金會的元宇人才的資料庫跟司法院移民署的機關的同意人才庫來尋求臨時的同意來應這個特約同意的部署的這一個部分\n\n04:57.689 --> 05:18.371\n本席今天把這個部分點出來你是不是可以把相關更精細的資訊給本席的辦公室讓我們了解一下目前失衡的狀況你們捕捉的一個狀態是如何精進的這部分我們再來就順便報告跟委員做一個說明最重要就是說司法希望每個人能夠被理解被傾聽所以當一個原住民的婦人\n\n05:18.871 --> 05:40.645\n因為語言的隔閡結果喪失了一個辯護權這不是只有個案的悲哀而是對國家弱勢很失職的一個證明所以希望法務部能夠針對上訴的問題的改善方案然後有一個時程那是不是部長這邊針對本期所提到的這個問題您覺得多久時間可以改善到什麼程度\n\n05:44.838 --> 05:59.729\n我們就先盡快給本席一個時程好不好你們也研究了解一下好嗎是好謝謝接下來本席要針對追蹤是追蹤本席有提過的就是第一線矯正專業人員的待遇的問題\n\n06:01.030 --> 06:22.015\n那剛才在前面質詢的莊委員跟賴委員都有非常關心矯正相關人員就是在這個處遇之後呢再犯還有是不是有效這樣一個問題那本席這邊指出來的就是這個矯正是否有用論跟執行的人員也有很大的關係\n\n06:23.135 --> 06:32.000\n所以剛才其實他們在討論的時候呢也有點出一些問題那本席在今年的六月質詢之後呢本席質詢的是針對矯正機關外聘人員執行專業諮詢治療\n\n06:40.125 --> 06:52.218\n輔導評估及授課處遇費用支給表長期大概有十年都沒有做調整的這個部分是本席在六月份質詢的時候所提出來的所以剛才莊委員有提到你們好像變一種數字遊戲啦\n\n06:53.780 --> 07:10.308\n但是在量化的不足的這個部分如何用質化來補足這個第一線的人員的這個知己就非常的重要所以剛才本席所談到這個知己是從民國101年核定到今天\n\n07:11.028 --> 07:35.311\n10年都沒有人去注意也沒有調整那期間的基本工資也已經調漲了52%那這整整遠低於衛福部或社安計畫網的行情標準那我想矯正署你們應該也是了解啦這樣子的待遇導致外聘的醫師心理師社工師流動率應該很高吧那聘用也困難處遇的這個品質也下降本席想請教法務部\n\n07:36.692 --> 08:04.550\n這項草案應該就我們的了解那矯正署應該送到法務部了嘛所以這個目前這個草案目前進行到什麼階段什麼時候可以實施能不能夠具體的承諾在今年前能夠完成核定與發布讓這樣一個新的標準準時的上路盡快的上路那未來是不是也可以建立定期的一個檢討制度避免十年才被發現十年才調整一次的荒謬現象\n\n08:05.730 --> 08:24.380\n謝謝我們的關心關於這一點的話我們有提出這樣的一個調生案目前得到訊息是應該是有通過的只是說我還沒看到確認有通過嗎就法務部這邊這個已經假設屬韓報本部本部已經韓報行政院因為這個終點費的調整是屬於行政院的權責\n\n08:26.181 --> 08:55.106\n所以法務部這邊已經送到行政院了嘛所以矯正署送到法務部法務部已經送出去法務部到行政院了目前是這個階段是嗎是好好謝謝那很感謝啦感謝矯正署做了這樣一個薪資調整的這個草案那也感謝法務部的支持那接下去本席會繼續針對這樣一個第一線人員的薪資知己的提高然後讓我們整個效度整個在矯正處遇上的效度能夠提高我想這應該是包括我們召委包括我們主席包括許多委員\n\n08:55.686 --> 08:58.594\n都關心的這樣一個議題那請大家一起來支持謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.39,"end":2.092,"text":"好 請林委員發言 謝謝好 謝謝我們主席 昭緯請一下這個我們法務部部長請部長"},{"start":16.316,"end":41.886,"text":"部長您好本席在這邊首先要先談的是跟憲法保障還有人權尊嚴有關的一個議題也就是原住民族的司法權益在去年8月監察院的司法及域政委員會通過了監委王美玉的一個調查報告指出在太魯閣的一個行賄案件當中檢警沒有落實對原住民族司法權益的保障"},{"start":42.526,"end":72.069,"text":"那這個報告裡面把整個個案的瑕疵有點出來但是反映的也是一個整個制度長期的結構性的一個缺陷那這個個案是呢一個太魯閣的李姓婦人跟他的共犯在這起案件裡面那他們是太魯閣族的但是呢檢警知道他們是太魯閣族的但卻沒有確認他們是不是要使用族語來應訊那他們甚至自己判斷檢警自行判斷說能講國語就不用通"},{"start":74.212,"end":86.83,"text":"這個有很大的一個缺失這顯示出一個行政方便來凌駕人權這樣子的辦案文化不是只有程序的瑕疵而是對原住民族司法保障的一個掏空"},{"start":87.711,"end":112.683,"text":"那您知道嗎在各個語言後面有一些社會文化邏輯的背景那這個不是我們用一般我們認為的一個想法就可以去了解這需要更多的一個同理學習跟了解所以呢在這個部分監察院又更進一步的在指出目前地檢署原住民的通譯在主語的語別"},{"start":113.203,"end":137.586,"text":"跟人數上跟實際的案件需求是嚴重的失衡也就是說基本上是不夠的人也不夠語言別也不夠因為原民會的資料我們在原住民族我想部長應該知道目前有16個族裔那42種方言別那檢察署現在的通譯只有7種族裔連一半都不到"},{"start":138.166,"end":165.673,"text":"那這樣子的落差在原住民族司法程序當中難免有的時候在母語方面沒有辦法完整的表達那在思維方面可能也不是太多人能夠理解所以沒有辦法確切的公述真實的程序跟你們所認為的正當性所以本席在這邊要提醒法務部根據原住民族基本法第30條國家有義務要提供足夠的族語通譯"},{"start":166.713,"end":180.06,"text":"而不是由偵辦人員用他有限制的知識來片面判斷是不是有需要同意再則在ICERD消除一切形式種族歧視的國際公約當中"},{"start":187.924,"end":207.319,"text":"以及司法的國事會議裡面都已經決議明確地要求建立完整的援助民族司法通譯制度確保弱勢的族群在訴訟當中不會因為語言與文化的差異而受到不公平的對待"},{"start":208.2,"end":232.571,"text":"所以本席在這邊要具體的請教法務部這一年是盤點了全國各級檢察署通譯人力與別與案件的需求嗎那目前補足的計畫是如何第二個部分是檢察官的實務現況是不是能夠及時調度通譯那請部長是不是可以針對這個部分給本席回應"},{"start":234.372,"end":254.547,"text":"謝謝委員那目前的那個同意我們在原住民組這邊的同意這部分我們有特約的一個同意其實剛才提到的目前只有7種的語言別這個部分你們是怎麼處理呢目前是有18種有8種目前有8種18種"},{"start":258.567,"end":274.398,"text":"八族 有八族的語言就是從去年到今年應該從七族多到了就是八族的語言那目前是有37位目前37位那跟你們的這個案量來比應該目前還是失衡的吧"},{"start":275.338,"end":297.289,"text":"這部分我們再來做一個了解 是不是請部長這邊了解一下部署的話是有臨時的同意 臨時的同意就是有各檢察署它是有元宇基金會的元宇人才的資料庫跟司法院移民署的機關的同意人才庫來尋求臨時的同意來應這個特約同意的部署的這一個部分"},{"start":297.689,"end":318.371,"text":"本席今天把這個部分點出來你是不是可以把相關更精細的資訊給本席的辦公室讓我們了解一下目前失衡的狀況你們捕捉的一個狀態是如何精進的這部分我們再來就順便報告跟委員做一個說明最重要就是說司法希望每個人能夠被理解被傾聽所以當一個原住民的婦人"},{"start":318.871,"end":340.645,"text":"因為語言的隔閡結果喪失了一個辯護權這不是只有個案的悲哀而是對國家弱勢很失職的一個證明所以希望法務部能夠針對上訴的問題的改善方案然後有一個時程那是不是部長這邊針對本期所提到的這個問題您覺得多久時間可以改善到什麼程度"},{"start":344.838,"end":359.729,"text":"我們就先盡快給本席一個時程好不好你們也研究了解一下好嗎是好 謝謝接下來本席要針對追蹤是追蹤本席有提過的就是第一線矯正專業人員的待遇的問題"},{"start":361.03,"end":382.015,"text":"那剛才在前面質詢的莊委員跟賴委員都有非常關心矯正相關人員就是在這個處遇之後呢再犯還有是不是有效這樣一個問題那本席這邊指出來的就是這個矯正是否有用論跟執行的人員也有很大的關係"},{"start":383.135,"end":392,"text":"所以剛才其實他們在討論的時候呢也有點出一些問題那本席在今年的六月質詢之後呢本席質詢的是針對矯正機關外聘人員執行專業諮詢治療"},{"start":400.125,"end":412.218,"text":"輔導評估及授課處遇費用支給表長期大概有十年都沒有做調整的這個部分是本席在六月份質詢的時候所提出來的所以剛才莊委員有提到你們好像變一種數字遊戲啦"},{"start":413.78,"end":430.308,"text":"但是在量化的不足的這個部分如何用質化來補足這個第一線的人員的這個知己就非常的重要所以剛才本席所談到這個知己是從民國101年核定到今天"},{"start":431.028,"end":455.311,"text":"10年都沒有人去注意也沒有調整那期間的基本工資也已經調漲了52%那這整整遠低於衛福部或社安計畫網的行情標準那我想矯正署你們應該也是了解啦這樣子的待遇導致外聘的醫師心理師社工師流動率應該很高吧那聘用也困難處遇的這個品質也下降本席想請教法務部"},{"start":456.692,"end":484.55,"text":"這項草案應該就我們的了解那矯正署應該送到法務部了嘛所以這個目前這個草案目前進行到什麼階段什麼時候可以實施能不能夠具體的承諾在今年前能夠完成核定與發布讓這樣一個新的標準準時的上路盡快的上路那未來是不是也可以建立定期的一個檢討制度避免十年才被發現十年才調整一次的荒謬現象"},{"start":485.73,"end":504.38,"text":"謝謝我們的關心 關於這一點的話我們有提出這樣的一個調生案目前得到訊息是應該是有通過的只是說我還沒看到確認有通過嗎 就法務部這邊這個已經 假設屬韓報本部本部已經韓報行政院因為這個終點費的調整是屬於行政院的權責"},{"start":506.181,"end":535.106,"text":"所以法務部這邊已經送到行政院了嘛所以矯正署送到法務部法務部已經送出去法務部到行政院了目前是這個階段是嗎是好好謝謝那很感謝啦感謝矯正署做了這樣一個薪資調整的這個草案那也感謝法務部的支持那接下去本席會繼續針對這樣一個第一線人員的薪資知己的提高然後讓我們整個效度整個在矯正處遇上的效度能夠提高我想這應該是包括我們召委包括我們主席包括許多委員"},{"start":535.686,"end":538.594,"text":"都關心的這樣一個議題那請大家一起來支持謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1259,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（12時13分）謝謝主席，請法務部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["林委員倩綺：部長，您好。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["林委員倩綺：本席首先要談的是跟憲法保障還有人權尊嚴有關的議題，也就是原住民族的司法權益。去年八月，監察院的司法及獄政委員會通過了監委王美玉的調查報告，指出在一起太魯閣行賄案件當中，檢警沒有落實對原住民族司法權益的保障，報告裡面有把整件個案的瑕疵點出來，但是反映的也是整個制度長期以來的結構性缺陷。這起個案涉及一名太魯閣族李姓婦人跟其共犯，他們都是太魯閣族人，但檢警雖然知道他們是太魯閣族人，卻沒有確認他們是不是要使用族語應訊，甚至自行判斷，認為能講國語就不用通譯！這裡有很大的缺失，顯示出行政方便凌駕人權。這樣的辦案文化不是只有程序的瑕疵，而是對原住民族司法保障的掏空。","您知道嗎？在各個語言後面有一些社會文化、邏輯的背景，不是用一般、我們認為的想法就可以了解，而是需要更多同理、學習跟了解。在這個部分，監察院更進一步指出，目前地檢署原住民通譯在族語語別跟人數上與實際的案件需求之間嚴重失衡，也就是說基本上是不夠的，人也不夠、語言別也不夠。","依照原民會的資料，我想部長應該知道，目前有16種族語、42種方言別，而檢察署現在的通譯只有7種族語，連一半都不到，這樣的落差在原住民族的司法程序當中，有時候難免在母語方面沒有辦法完整地表達，在思維方面可能也沒有太多人能夠理解，沒有辦法確切地供述真實的程序跟你們所認為的正當性。","所以本席在這邊要提醒法務部，根據原住民族基本法第三十條，國家有義務提供足夠的族語通譯，而不是由偵辦人員用他有限制的知識片面判斷是否需要通譯。再則，在ICERD（International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination《消除一切形式種族歧視國際公約》）當中，以及在司法國是會議裡都已經決議，明確要求建立完整的原住民族司法通譯制度，確保弱勢族群在訴訟當中不會因為語言與文化的差異而受到不公平的對待。所以本席在這邊要具體請教，法務部這一年盤點了全國各級檢察署通譯人力、語別與案件的需求嗎？目前補足的計畫如何？第二個部分是以檢察官的實務、現況，是不是能夠及時調度通譯？部長是不是可以針對這個部分給本席回應？"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝委員。關於目前的通譯，我們針對原住民族這部分有特約通譯。"],["林委員倩綺：針對本席剛才提到目前只有7種語言別這個部分，你們怎麼處理呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前有18種……有8種……"],["林委員倩綺：目前有8種？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前有8族……"],["林委員倩綺：有8族語言？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有18種……"],["林委員倩綺：從去年到今年應該是從7族增多到8族語言？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前是有37位。"],["林委員倩綺：目前是37位？那跟你們的案量來比，應該是失衡的吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們再來了解。"],["林委員倩綺：對，是不是請部長了解一下？"],["鄭部長銘謙：另外是有臨時通譯，就是各檢察署由原語基金會的原語人才資料庫跟司法院與移民署等機關的通譯人才庫尋求臨時通譯，以應特約通譯不足的部分。"],["林委員倩綺：本席今天把這個部分點出來，你是不是可以把更精細的相關資訊提供給本席辦公室，讓我們了解一下目前失衡的狀況、你們補足的狀態如何？"],["鄭部長銘謙：就剛才提的精進部分，我們再以書面報告向委員說明。"],["林委員倩綺：對，謝謝。最重要的就是關於司法，希望每個人都能被理解、被傾聽，所以當一名原住民婦人因為語言的隔閡喪失了辯護權，這不只是個案的悲哀，而是國家對弱勢失職的證明啦！所以希望法務部針對上述問題的改善方案能有一個時程。就本席所提到的這個問題，部長覺得多久時間後可以改善到什麼程度？"],["鄭部長銘謙：兩週，儘快。"],["林委員倩綺：那就先儘快給本席時程好不好？你也研究、了解一下，好嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝。","接下來本席要追蹤本席提過的，就是第一線矯正專業人員待遇的問題。剛才在前面質詢的莊委員跟賴委員都非常關心矯正相關人員處遇之後再犯以及矯正是否有效這樣的問題，而本席要指出的就是矯正是否有用論跟執行人員也有很大的關係吧？剛才討論的時候其實也點出一些問題。本席在今年六月質詢的是矯正機關外聘人員執行專業諮詢、治療、輔導、評估及授課處遇費用支給表大概有十年都沒有調整。這個部分是本席在六月份質詢的時候所提出來的。剛才莊委員也提到，你們好像變成一種數字遊戲。","量化不足的部分如何用質化補足，第一線人員的支給就非常重要，但是剛才本席所談到的支給是從民國101年核定到今天，十年來都沒有人注意、也沒有調整，而這段期間基本工資已經調漲了52%，也遠低於衛福部或社安計畫網的行情標準，我想矯正署應該也了解這樣的待遇導致外聘醫師、心理師、社工師流動率很高吧？且聘用困難，處遇的品質也下降。本席想請教法務部，關於這項草案，就我們的了解，矯正署應該已經送到法務部了吧？"],["林署長憲銘：是。"],["林委員倩綺：所以目前這項草案進行到什麼階段？什麼時候可以實施？能不能具體承諾在今年以前完成核定與發布，讓這樣的新標準能夠準時上路、儘快上路？未來是不是也可以建立定期的檢討制度，避免十年才被發現、十年才調整一次的荒謬現象？"],["林署長憲銘：謝謝委員的關心，關於這一點，我們提出這樣的調升案。目前得到的訊息是應該有通過，只是我還沒看到……"],["林委員倩綺：確認有通過嗎？法務部這邊……"],["林處長錦慧：這個方案矯正署已經函報本部，本部也函報行政院，因為鐘點費的調整屬於行政院的權責。"],["林委員倩綺：所以法務部這邊已經送到行政院了嘛！"],["林處長錦慧：對。"],["林委員倩綺：所以矯正署送到法務部、法務部也已經送出法務部、到行政院了，目前是這個階段，是嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝。很感謝矯正署做了這樣的薪資調整草案，也感謝法務部的支持，接下來本席會繼續針對第一線人員的薪資支給提高加以追蹤，讓整個矯正處遇上的效度能夠提高。我想這應該是包括召委、主席也包括許多委員都關心的議題，請大家一起支持。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。林委員剛剛講的議題很重要，我最近也觀察到，行政院那裡是不是壓了很多各機關提出的案子，包含法規命令、作業要點等等都沒有核定？這其實已經造成很多機關在執行職務上發生窒礙難行的情況，尤其是立法院要求各部會機關都要提出相關作業要點的修正，乃至於這種待遇加給等等，所以麻煩部長回去後也要向院長反映，儘量對機關所提出的相關辦法、要點修正以及作業規定等等趕快核定，不要拖拖拉拉的。","接下來請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","吳宗憲","王義川","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅智強","傅崐萁","賴士葆","林楚茵","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","林倩綺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00001"}}}