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317.791, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"廷\", \"start\": 317.791, \"end\": 317.971, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 317.971, \"end\": 318.271, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 318.271, \"end\": 318.291, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 318.291, \"end\": 318.411, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 318.411, \"end\": 318.451, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 318.451, \"end\": 318.772, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"吳\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 318.772, \"end\": 318.792, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"華\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 318.792, \"end\": 318.812, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,930\n劉部長還有吳署長委員好部長午安辛苦了我們在討論特別預算其中跟內政部有關大家也都關心當然就是所謂的老宅延售政策這個政策方向上當然是一件好事但針對內容上本席有一些想法跟內政部這邊來做一下交換\n\n2\n00:00:27,948 --> 00:00:49,699\n這一次針對老宅延售的五十億基本上是針對三十年以上四到六樓也就是所謂的五樓公寓啦為主的這樣一個建築來進行整理跟補助嘛對不對對還有地震要先做一個耐震補強等等嘛那我想要請問劉部長你覺得預算執行的你有多大把握可以全部執行完畢\n\n3\n00:00:50,287 --> 00:01:10,614\n第一個我們設定的對象是500棟那500棟在未來的一兩年當中其實會比較容易達成是因為現在跟我們表達說有興趣的相當的多但是中間有些程序需要補足包括公益大廈管理條例裡面是不是適用的部分我們都會來做檢討現在大概本期有兩個問題第一個是這樣子就是說\n\n4\n00:01:11,536 --> 00:01:40,665\n尤其是五樓公寓的狀況因為它當然沒有管委會嘛那你還是要經過一個內部的意見整合這樣一個機制幾乎都要百分之百同意啦對啦因為你有管委會的時候你還可以說我去全員開個會我就處理完了對不對有多數意見等等但是那五樓公寓你也很難有所謂的相關的機制嘛你變成是等於族戶要拿同意書的概念啦那這樣的話其中有一兩層他可能出租找不到屋主或者是說他有反對意見對不對那會不會造成這個政策自然難行啊\n\n5\n00:01:41,390 --> 00:02:09,494\n會所以我們現在已經針對這個有一些補充或是其他的辦法我是不是請署長跟你回應可以啊署長你說明一下吧你怎麼樣去解決這個界面整合的問題啊感謝因為首先來講就是說沒有管委會的部分我們會建議他從管理組織去組成就可以了就是說他不一定是供應大家所講的所以我們上次的修法裡面就把他從管委會再增加叫管理組織所以還要你這是修法已經修法過了所以就鼓勵他們至少是一個管理組織\n\n6\n00:02:10,114 --> 00:02:25,264\n我要問的處理這件事情總要有個人嘛就是說你要有個人去找人然後去收集這些東西請問你現在老宅延壽計畫五十裡面跟人相關的有哪些人比如說我搞都更對不對我至少還有一個叫都更規劃師\n\n7\n00:02:26,345 --> 00:02:42,550\n都更規劃師實務上當然也遇到很大障礙因為公信力可能不夠等等這當然另外有時間再來做探討但你今天老宅延壽會有一樣的狀況嘛都更好歹有一個規劃師來穿梭行走效果都不見得好了那你現在這個老宅延壽是誰要去處理這個事熱心的住戶嗎\n\n8\n00:02:43,630 --> 00:03:06,517\n地方政府的專員嗎NGO嗎是什麼樣來處理呢是這樣喔因為我們之前就已經跟地方的建築公會還有相關的這個都已經有開過他們都非常願意出來協助來處理這些事情那包含這一個這一個地方要成立管委會組織那我們接洽過這些公會他們都願意出來第二個我們有給地方政府相關的這個顧問團隊的這個經費那這部分也是他們可以用來協助這個社區來做整合的一些\n\n9\n00:03:11,698 --> 00:03:27,545\n我是覺得這樣子的講法還是太模糊了因為我們要聽到的是比如哪一個協會哪一些人可以直接來處理這個事我才能追蹤這個效果工會都有表達意願工會有表達意願但我覺得這不夠具體而且第二個你剛有講成立管理組織等等他也是需要行政作業流程跟時間嘛\n\n10\n00:03:28,365 --> 00:03:43,811\n我們這個特別預算下去我當然希望看到效果嘛我別說下去沒有辦法很好執行或者是說中央確實有出錢可是地方上我收的是補助但我不見得能夠妥善的去使用這個我們都會補助這個要追蹤一下啦是這個也會補助地方好不好有關介面整合的部分你會有提供一份書面報告我們要了解狀況\n\n11\n00:03:44,711 --> 00:04:12,722\n第二個日本人要做個建議啦我希望你們在處理這個政策的時候既然要花五十億對不對特別預算你既然都如果界面整個問題可以解決你老宅最後延壽我要讓它可長可久你是不是在這整合的過程我拿了政府的錢做了部分的修繕之後我也要去考量未來嘛我們現在公寓大廈我們都希望有長期修繕計畫那這些老宅延壽拿了政府補助的是不是也要有相關的有人要去輔導要把這相關的長期的修繕計畫來制定出來\n\n12\n00:04:13,402 --> 00:04:42,441\n不能每次都是政府有資源有些有用到有些沒用到用完了就算了然後要等下一波資源這樣也不是辦法既然政府要下資源我就希望要有常委效應嘛所以我希望政府在執行這個預算的時候你要有一些條件嘛也就是說我除了要整合完之後既然都整合了大家就開個會嘛一起把長期休戰計畫也要把它納入也許變成一個指標或怎麼樣讓這筆錢下去之後它才能夠真正達成延壽的效果嘛這樣你下這個錢才會值得啦第二點是本期的政策建議啦\n\n13\n00:04:43,161 --> 00:05:00,535\n這個我可以理解委員的用心就是說希望他們長期這個管理組織變成是一個長期可運作的成立管理組織會有修繕計畫嘛就真的確定他後續有一些修繕的計畫或者是長期他會因此本來沒有再收管理費修繕費現在開始來運作來收你把這五十億當成一個開頭\n\n14\n00:05:01,656 --> 00:05:18,812\n但他建立好的模式之後他也許會轉正嘛變成一個長期執行的計畫但他一定要有相關效果嘛讓最後每一棟五樓公寓他都有相關的修正案計畫這才是真正的老宅延壽了好不好這希望國務組用點心內政部用點心好嗎好謝謝好辛苦了謝謝好謝謝牛許廷委員謝謝好接下來我們請吳立華委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1930\t劉部長還有吳署長委員好部長午安 辛苦了我們在討論特別預算其中跟內政部有關大家也都關心當然就是所謂的老宅延售政策這個政策方向上當然是一件好事但針對內容上本席有一些想法跟內政部這邊來做一下交換\n27948\t49699\t這一次針對老宅延售的五十億基本上是針對三十年以上四到六樓也就是所謂的五樓公寓啦為主的這樣一個建築來進行整理跟補助嘛對不對對還有地震要先做一個耐震補強等等嘛那我想要請問劉部長你覺得預算執行的你有多大把握可以全部執行完畢\n50287\t70614\t第一個我們設定的對象是500棟那500棟在未來的一兩年當中其實會比較容易達成是因為現在跟我們表達說有興趣的相當的多但是中間有些程序需要補足包括公益大廈管理條例裡面是不是適用的部分我們都會來做檢討現在大概本期有兩個問題第一個是這樣子就是說\n71536\t100665\t尤其是五樓公寓的狀況因為它當然沒有管委會嘛那你還是要經過一個內部的意見整合這樣一個機制幾乎都要百分之百同意啦對啦因為你有管委會的時候你還可以說我去全員開個會我就處理完了對不對有多數意見等等但是那五樓公寓你也很難有所謂的相關的機制嘛你變成是等於族戶要拿同意書的概念啦那這樣的話其中有一兩層他可能出租找不到屋主或者是說他有反對意見對不對那會不會造成這個政策自然難行啊\n101390\t129494\t會 所以我們現在已經針對這個有一些補充或是其他的辦法我是不是請署長跟你回應可以啊 署長你說明一下吧你怎麼樣去解決這個界面整合的問題啊感謝 因為首先來講就是說沒有管委會的部分我們會建議他從管理組織去組成就可以了就是說他不一定是供應大家所講的所以我們上次的修法裡面就把他從管委會再增加叫管理組織所以還要 你這是修法已經修法過了所以就鼓勵他們至少是一個管理組織\n130114\t145264\t我要問的處理這件事情總要有個人嘛就是說你要有個人去找人然後去收集這些東西請問你現在老宅延壽計畫五十裡面跟人相關的有哪些人比如說我搞都更對不對我至少還有一個叫都更規劃師\n146345\t162550\t都更規劃師實務上當然也遇到很大障礙因為公信力可能不夠等等這當然另外有時間再來做探討但你今天老宅延壽會有一樣的狀況嘛都更好歹有一個規劃師來穿梭行走效果都不見得好了那你現在這個老宅延壽是誰要去處理這個事熱心的住戶嗎\n163630\t186517\t地方政府的專員嗎NGO嗎是什麼樣來處理呢是這樣喔因為我們之前就已經跟地方的建築公會還有相關的這個都已經有開過他們都非常願意出來協助來處理這些事情那包含這一個這一個地方要成立管委會組織那我們接洽過這些公會他們都願意出來第二個我們有給地方政府相關的這個顧問團隊的這個經費那這部分也是他們可以用來協助這個社區來做整合的一些\n191698\t207545\t我是覺得這樣子的講法還是太模糊了因為我們要聽到的是比如哪一個協會哪一些人可以直接來處理這個事我才能追蹤這個效果工會都有表達意願工會有表達意願但我覺得這不夠具體而且第二個你剛有講成立管理組織等等他也是需要行政作業流程跟時間嘛\n208365\t223811\t我們這個特別預算下去我當然希望看到效果嘛我別說下去沒有辦法很好執行或者是說中央確實有出錢可是地方上我收的是補助但我不見得能夠妥善的去使用這個我們都會補助這個要追蹤一下啦是 這個也會補助地方好不好 有關介面整合的部分你會有提供一份書面報告我們要了解狀況\n224711\t252722\t第二個 日本人要做個建議啦我希望你們在處理這個政策的時候既然要花五十億對不對 特別預算你既然都如果界面整個問題可以解決你老宅最後延壽我要讓它可長可久你是不是在這整合的過程我拿了政府的錢做了部分的修繕之後我也要去考量未來嘛我們現在公寓大廈我們都希望有長期修繕計畫那這些老宅延壽拿了政府補助的是不是也要有相關的有人要去輔導要把這相關的長期的修繕計畫來制定出來\n253402\t282441\t不能每次都是政府有資源有些有用到有些沒用到用完了就算了然後要等下一波資源這樣也不是辦法既然政府要下資源我就希望要有常委效應嘛所以我希望政府在執行這個預算的時候你要有一些條件嘛也就是說我除了要整合完之後既然都整合了大家就開個會嘛一起把長期休戰計畫也要把它納入也許變成一個指標或怎麼樣讓這筆錢下去之後它才能夠真正達成延壽的效果嘛這樣你下這個錢才會值得啦第二點是本期的政策建議啦\n283161\t300535\t這個我可以理解委員的用心就是說希望他們長期這個管理組織變成是一個長期可運作的成立管理組織會有修繕計畫嘛就真的確定他後續有一些修繕的計畫或者是長期他會因此本來沒有再收管理費修繕費現在開始來運作來收你把這五十億當成一個開頭\n301656\t318812\t但他建立好的模式之後他也許會轉正嘛變成一個長期執行的計畫但他一定要有相關效果嘛讓最後每一棟五樓公寓他都有相關的修正案計畫這才是真正的老宅延壽了好不好這希望國務組用點心內政部用點心好嗎好 謝謝好 辛苦了 謝謝好 謝謝牛許廷委員 謝謝好 接下來我們請吳立華委員\n","txt":"劉部長還有吳署長委員好部長午安 辛苦了我們在討論特別預算其中跟內政部有關大家也都關心當然就是所謂的老宅延售政策這個政策方向上當然是一件好事但針對內容上本席有一些想法跟內政部這邊來做一下交換\n這一次針對老宅延售的五十億基本上是針對三十年以上四到六樓也就是所謂的五樓公寓啦為主的這樣一個建築來進行整理跟補助嘛對不對對還有地震要先做一個耐震補強等等嘛那我想要請問劉部長你覺得預算執行的你有多大把握可以全部執行完畢\n第一個我們設定的對象是500棟那500棟在未來的一兩年當中其實會比較容易達成是因為現在跟我們表達說有興趣的相當的多但是中間有些程序需要補足包括公益大廈管理條例裡面是不是適用的部分我們都會來做檢討現在大概本期有兩個問題第一個是這樣子就是說\n尤其是五樓公寓的狀況因為它當然沒有管委會嘛那你還是要經過一個內部的意見整合這樣一個機制幾乎都要百分之百同意啦對啦因為你有管委會的時候你還可以說我去全員開個會我就處理完了對不對有多數意見等等但是那五樓公寓你也很難有所謂的相關的機制嘛你變成是等於族戶要拿同意書的概念啦那這樣的話其中有一兩層他可能出租找不到屋主或者是說他有反對意見對不對那會不會造成這個政策自然難行啊\n會 所以我們現在已經針對這個有一些補充或是其他的辦法我是不是請署長跟你回應可以啊 署長你說明一下吧你怎麼樣去解決這個界面整合的問題啊感謝 因為首先來講就是說沒有管委會的部分我們會建議他從管理組織去組成就可以了就是說他不一定是供應大家所講的所以我們上次的修法裡面就把他從管委會再增加叫管理組織所以還要 你這是修法已經修法過了所以就鼓勵他們至少是一個管理組織\n我要問的處理這件事情總要有個人嘛就是說你要有個人去找人然後去收集這些東西請問你現在老宅延壽計畫五十裡面跟人相關的有哪些人比如說我搞都更對不對我至少還有一個叫都更規劃師\n都更規劃師實務上當然也遇到很大障礙因為公信力可能不夠等等這當然另外有時間再來做探討但你今天老宅延壽會有一樣的狀況嘛都更好歹有一個規劃師來穿梭行走效果都不見得好了那你現在這個老宅延壽是誰要去處理這個事熱心的住戶嗎\n地方政府的專員嗎NGO嗎是什麼樣來處理呢是這樣喔因為我們之前就已經跟地方的建築公會還有相關的這個都已經有開過他們都非常願意出來協助來處理這些事情那包含這一個這一個地方要成立管委會組織那我們接洽過這些公會他們都願意出來第二個我們有給地方政府相關的這個顧問團隊的這個經費那這部分也是他們可以用來協助這個社區來做整合的一些\n我是覺得這樣子的講法還是太模糊了因為我們要聽到的是比如哪一個協會哪一些人可以直接來處理這個事我才能追蹤這個效果工會都有表達意願工會有表達意願但我覺得這不夠具體而且第二個你剛有講成立管理組織等等他也是需要行政作業流程跟時間嘛\n我們這個特別預算下去我當然希望看到效果嘛我別說下去沒有辦法很好執行或者是說中央確實有出錢可是地方上我收的是補助但我不見得能夠妥善的去使用這個我們都會補助這個要追蹤一下啦是 這個也會補助地方好不好 有關介面整合的部分你會有提供一份書面報告我們要了解狀況\n第二個 日本人要做個建議啦我希望你們在處理這個政策的時候既然要花五十億對不對 特別預算你既然都如果界面整個問題可以解決你老宅最後延壽我要讓它可長可久你是不是在這整合的過程我拿了政府的錢做了部分的修繕之後我也要去考量未來嘛我們現在公寓大廈我們都希望有長期修繕計畫那這些老宅延壽拿了政府補助的是不是也要有相關的有人要去輔導要把這相關的長期的修繕計畫來制定出來\n不能每次都是政府有資源有些有用到有些沒用到用完了就算了然後要等下一波資源這樣也不是辦法既然政府要下資源我就希望要有常委效應嘛所以我希望政府在執行這個預算的時候你要有一些條件嘛也就是說我除了要整合完之後既然都整合了大家就開個會嘛一起把長期休戰計畫也要把它納入也許變成一個指標或怎麼樣讓這筆錢下去之後它才能夠真正達成延壽的效果嘛這樣你下這個錢才會值得啦第二點是本期的政策建議啦\n這個我可以理解委員的用心就是說希望他們長期這個管理組織變成是一個長期可運作的成立管理組織會有修繕計畫嘛就真的確定他後續有一些修繕的計畫或者是長期他會因此本來沒有再收管理費修繕費現在開始來運作來收你把這五十億當成一個開頭\n但他建立好的模式之後他也許會轉正嘛變成一個長期執行的計畫但他一定要有相關效果嘛讓最後每一棟五樓公寓他都有相關的修正案計畫這才是真正的老宅延壽了好不好這希望國務組用點心內政部用點心好嗎好 謝謝好 辛苦了 謝謝好 謝謝牛許廷委員 謝謝好 接下來我們請吳立華委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.930\n劉部長還有吳署長委員好部長午安辛苦了我們在討論特別預算其中跟內政部有關大家也都關心當然就是所謂的老宅延售政策這個政策方向上當然是一件好事但針對內容上本席有一些想法跟內政部這邊來做一下交換\n\n00:27.948 --> 00:49.699\n這一次針對老宅延售的五十億基本上是針對三十年以上四到六樓也就是所謂的五樓公寓啦為主的這樣一個建築來進行整理跟補助嘛對不對對還有地震要先做一個耐震補強等等嘛那我想要請問劉部長你覺得預算執行的你有多大把握可以全部執行完畢\n\n00:50.287 --> 01:10.614\n第一個我們設定的對象是500棟那500棟在未來的一兩年當中其實會比較容易達成是因為現在跟我們表達說有興趣的相當的多但是中間有些程序需要補足包括公益大廈管理條例裡面是不是適用的部分我們都會來做檢討現在大概本期有兩個問題第一個是這樣子就是說\n\n01:11.536 --> 01:40.665\n尤其是五樓公寓的狀況因為它當然沒有管委會嘛那你還是要經過一個內部的意見整合這樣一個機制幾乎都要百分之百同意啦對啦因為你有管委會的時候你還可以說我去全員開個會我就處理完了對不對有多數意見等等但是那五樓公寓你也很難有所謂的相關的機制嘛你變成是等於族戶要拿同意書的概念啦那這樣的話其中有一兩層他可能出租找不到屋主或者是說他有反對意見對不對那會不會造成這個政策自然難行啊\n\n01:41.390 --> 02:09.494\n會所以我們現在已經針對這個有一些補充或是其他的辦法我是不是請署長跟你回應可以啊署長你說明一下吧你怎麼樣去解決這個界面整合的問題啊感謝因為首先來講就是說沒有管委會的部分我們會建議他從管理組織去組成就可以了就是說他不一定是供應大家所講的所以我們上次的修法裡面就把他從管委會再增加叫管理組織所以還要你這是修法已經修法過了所以就鼓勵他們至少是一個管理組織\n\n02:10.114 --> 02:25.264\n我要問的處理這件事情總要有個人嘛就是說你要有個人去找人然後去收集這些東西請問你現在老宅延壽計畫五十裡面跟人相關的有哪些人比如說我搞都更對不對我至少還有一個叫都更規劃師\n\n02:26.345 --> 02:42.550\n都更規劃師實務上當然也遇到很大障礙因為公信力可能不夠等等這當然另外有時間再來做探討但你今天老宅延壽會有一樣的狀況嘛都更好歹有一個規劃師來穿梭行走效果都不見得好了那你現在這個老宅延壽是誰要去處理這個事熱心的住戶嗎\n\n02:43.630 --> 03:06.517\n地方政府的專員嗎NGO嗎是什麼樣來處理呢是這樣喔因為我們之前就已經跟地方的建築公會還有相關的這個都已經有開過他們都非常願意出來協助來處理這些事情那包含這一個這一個地方要成立管委會組織那我們接洽過這些公會他們都願意出來第二個我們有給地方政府相關的這個顧問團隊的這個經費那這部分也是他們可以用來協助這個社區來做整合的一些\n\n03:11.698 --> 03:27.545\n我是覺得這樣子的講法還是太模糊了因為我們要聽到的是比如哪一個協會哪一些人可以直接來處理這個事我才能追蹤這個效果工會都有表達意願工會有表達意願但我覺得這不夠具體而且第二個你剛有講成立管理組織等等他也是需要行政作業流程跟時間嘛\n\n03:28.365 --> 03:43.811\n我們這個特別預算下去我當然希望看到效果嘛我別說下去沒有辦法很好執行或者是說中央確實有出錢可是地方上我收的是補助但我不見得能夠妥善的去使用這個我們都會補助這個要追蹤一下啦是這個也會補助地方好不好有關介面整合的部分你會有提供一份書面報告我們要了解狀況\n\n03:44.711 --> 04:12.722\n第二個日本人要做個建議啦我希望你們在處理這個政策的時候既然要花五十億對不對特別預算你既然都如果界面整個問題可以解決你老宅最後延壽我要讓它可長可久你是不是在這整合的過程我拿了政府的錢做了部分的修繕之後我也要去考量未來嘛我們現在公寓大廈我們都希望有長期修繕計畫那這些老宅延壽拿了政府補助的是不是也要有相關的有人要去輔導要把這相關的長期的修繕計畫來制定出來\n\n04:13.402 --> 04:42.441\n不能每次都是政府有資源有些有用到有些沒用到用完了就算了然後要等下一波資源這樣也不是辦法既然政府要下資源我就希望要有常委效應嘛所以我希望政府在執行這個預算的時候你要有一些條件嘛也就是說我除了要整合完之後既然都整合了大家就開個會嘛一起把長期休戰計畫也要把它納入也許變成一個指標或怎麼樣讓這筆錢下去之後它才能夠真正達成延壽的效果嘛這樣你下這個錢才會值得啦第二點是本期的政策建議啦\n\n04:43.161 --> 05:00.535\n這個我可以理解委員的用心就是說希望他們長期這個管理組織變成是一個長期可運作的成立管理組織會有修繕計畫嘛就真的確定他後續有一些修繕的計畫或者是長期他會因此本來沒有再收管理費修繕費現在開始來運作來收你把這五十億當成一個開頭\n\n05:01.656 --> 05:18.812\n但他建立好的模式之後他也許會轉正嘛變成一個長期執行的計畫但他一定要有相關效果嘛讓最後每一棟五樓公寓他都有相關的修正案計畫這才是真正的老宅延壽了好不好這希望國務組用點心內政部用點心好嗎好謝謝好辛苦了謝謝好謝謝牛許廷委員謝謝好接下來我們請吳立華委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.93,"text":"劉部長還有吳署長委員好部長午安 辛苦了我們在討論特別預算其中跟內政部有關大家也都關心當然就是所謂的老宅延售政策這個政策方向上當然是一件好事但針對內容上本席有一些想法跟內政部這邊來做一下交換"},{"start":27.948,"end":49.699,"text":"這一次針對老宅延售的五十億基本上是針對三十年以上四到六樓也就是所謂的五樓公寓啦為主的這樣一個建築來進行整理跟補助嘛對不對對還有地震要先做一個耐震補強等等嘛那我想要請問劉部長你覺得預算執行的你有多大把握可以全部執行完畢"},{"start":50.287,"end":70.614,"text":"第一個我們設定的對象是500棟那500棟在未來的一兩年當中其實會比較容易達成是因為現在跟我們表達說有興趣的相當的多但是中間有些程序需要補足包括公益大廈管理條例裡面是不是適用的部分我們都會來做檢討現在大概本期有兩個問題第一個是這樣子就是說"},{"start":71.536,"end":100.665,"text":"尤其是五樓公寓的狀況因為它當然沒有管委會嘛那你還是要經過一個內部的意見整合這樣一個機制幾乎都要百分之百同意啦對啦因為你有管委會的時候你還可以說我去全員開個會我就處理完了對不對有多數意見等等但是那五樓公寓你也很難有所謂的相關的機制嘛你變成是等於族戶要拿同意書的概念啦那這樣的話其中有一兩層他可能出租找不到屋主或者是說他有反對意見對不對那會不會造成這個政策自然難行啊"},{"start":101.39,"end":129.494,"text":"會 所以我們現在已經針對這個有一些補充或是其他的辦法我是不是請署長跟你回應可以啊 署長你說明一下吧你怎麼樣去解決這個界面整合的問題啊感謝 因為首先來講就是說沒有管委會的部分我們會建議他從管理組織去組成就可以了就是說他不一定是供應大家所講的所以我們上次的修法裡面就把他從管委會再增加叫管理組織所以還要 你這是修法已經修法過了所以就鼓勵他們至少是一個管理組織"},{"start":130.114,"end":145.264,"text":"我要問的處理這件事情總要有個人嘛就是說你要有個人去找人然後去收集這些東西請問你現在老宅延壽計畫五十裡面跟人相關的有哪些人比如說我搞都更對不對我至少還有一個叫都更規劃師"},{"start":146.345,"end":162.55,"text":"都更規劃師實務上當然也遇到很大障礙因為公信力可能不夠等等這當然另外有時間再來做探討但你今天老宅延壽會有一樣的狀況嘛都更好歹有一個規劃師來穿梭行走效果都不見得好了那你現在這個老宅延壽是誰要去處理這個事熱心的住戶嗎"},{"start":163.63,"end":186.517,"text":"地方政府的專員嗎NGO嗎是什麼樣來處理呢是這樣喔因為我們之前就已經跟地方的建築公會還有相關的這個都已經有開過他們都非常願意出來協助來處理這些事情那包含這一個這一個地方要成立管委會組織那我們接洽過這些公會他們都願意出來第二個我們有給地方政府相關的這個顧問團隊的這個經費那這部分也是他們可以用來協助這個社區來做整合的一些"},{"start":191.698,"end":207.545,"text":"我是覺得這樣子的講法還是太模糊了因為我們要聽到的是比如哪一個協會哪一些人可以直接來處理這個事我才能追蹤這個效果工會都有表達意願工會有表達意願但我覺得這不夠具體而且第二個你剛有講成立管理組織等等他也是需要行政作業流程跟時間嘛"},{"start":208.365,"end":223.811,"text":"我們這個特別預算下去我當然希望看到效果嘛我別說下去沒有辦法很好執行或者是說中央確實有出錢可是地方上我收的是補助但我不見得能夠妥善的去使用這個我們都會補助這個要追蹤一下啦是 這個也會補助地方好不好 有關介面整合的部分你會有提供一份書面報告我們要了解狀況"},{"start":224.711,"end":252.722,"text":"第二個 日本人要做個建議啦我希望你們在處理這個政策的時候既然要花五十億對不對 特別預算你既然都如果界面整個問題可以解決你老宅最後延壽我要讓它可長可久你是不是在這整合的過程我拿了政府的錢做了部分的修繕之後我也要去考量未來嘛我們現在公寓大廈我們都希望有長期修繕計畫那這些老宅延壽拿了政府補助的是不是也要有相關的有人要去輔導要把這相關的長期的修繕計畫來制定出來"},{"start":253.402,"end":282.441,"text":"不能每次都是政府有資源有些有用到有些沒用到用完了就算了然後要等下一波資源這樣也不是辦法既然政府要下資源我就希望要有常委效應嘛所以我希望政府在執行這個預算的時候你要有一些條件嘛也就是說我除了要整合完之後既然都整合了大家就開個會嘛一起把長期休戰計畫也要把它納入也許變成一個指標或怎麼樣讓這筆錢下去之後它才能夠真正達成延壽的效果嘛這樣你下這個錢才會值得啦第二點是本期的政策建議啦"},{"start":283.161,"end":300.535,"text":"這個我可以理解委員的用心就是說希望他們長期這個管理組織變成是一個長期可運作的成立管理組織會有修繕計畫嘛就真的確定他後續有一些修繕的計畫或者是長期他會因此本來沒有再收管理費修繕費現在開始來運作來收你把這五十億當成一個開頭"},{"start":301.656,"end":318.812,"text":"但他建立好的模式之後他也許會轉正嘛變成一個長期執行的計畫但他一定要有相關效果嘛讓最後每一棟五樓公寓他都有相關的修正案計畫這才是真正的老宅延壽了好不好這希望國務組用點心內政部用點心好嗎好 謝謝好 辛苦了 謝謝好 謝謝牛許廷委員 謝謝好 接下來我們請吳立華委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1461,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（13時14分）謝謝主席。內政部、國土署有請。"],["主席：好，請劉部長，還有吳署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：部長午安！辛苦了！我們在討論特別預算，其中跟內政部有關，大家也都關心，當然就是所謂的老宅延壽政策。這個政策方向上當然是一件好事，但針對內容上，本席有一些想法跟內政部這邊來做一下交換。","這一次針對老宅延壽的50億元，基本上是針對30年以上4到6樓，也就是所謂的5樓公寓為主的建築來進行整理跟補助，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對，還有地震要先做一個……"],["牛委員煦庭：耐震補強等等。"],["劉部長世芳：對，耐震補強。"],["牛委員煦庭：我想要請問劉部長，你有多大把握可以把預算全部執行完畢？"],["劉部長世芳：第一個，我們設定的對象是500棟，500棟在未來的一、兩年當中其實會比較容易達成，是因為現在跟我們表達說有興趣的相當地多，但是中間有些程序需要補足，包括公寓大廈管理條例裡面是不是適用的部分，我們都會檢討。"],["牛委員煦庭：是的。現在本席有兩個問題，第一個，尤其是5樓公寓的狀況，因為它沒有管委會，那還是要經過內部意見整合這樣的機制。"],["劉部長世芳：幾乎都要百分之百同意啦！這是最大的……"],["牛委員煦庭：對啦！有管委會的時候，你還可以說區權人開個會，我就處理完了，對不對？有多數意見等等。但是5樓公寓你也很難有所謂相關的機制嘛！變成是逐戶要拿同意書的概念，這樣其中有一、兩層可能出租，找不到屋主，或者是他有反對意見，那會不會造成這個政策窒礙難行？"],["劉部長世芳：會，所以我們現在已經針對這個有一些補充或是其他的辦法。我是不是請署長跟您回應，好不好？"],["牛委員煦庭：可以啊！署長你說明一下吧！你怎麼樣去解決這個界面整合的問題。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝！首先，針對沒有管委會的部分，我們會建議他從管理組織去組成就可以了，就是說它不一定是公寓大廈所講的。所以我們上次的修法裡面，就有把它從管委會再增加一個，叫管理組織。"],["牛委員煦庭：那是不是還要修法？"],["吳署長欣修：已經修法過了，所以就鼓勵他們至少是一個管理組織出來處理這件事情。"],["牛委員煦庭：好，我要問的是，處理這件事情總要有個人嘛！就是要有一個人去找人，然後去蒐集這些東西。"],["吳署長欣修：沒有錯。"],["牛委員煦庭：請問你現在在老宅延壽計畫的50億元裡面，跟人相關的有哪些人？比如說我搞都更，我至少還有一個叫都更規劃師。都更規劃師實務上當然也遇到很大障礙，因為公信力可能不夠等等，這當然另外有時間再來做探討。但你今天老宅延壽會有一樣的狀況嘛！都更好歹有一個規劃師來穿梭行走，效果都不見得好了，那你現在這個老宅延壽是誰要去處理這個事？熱心的住戶嗎？地方政府的專員嗎？NGO嗎？是什麼樣的人來處理呢？"],["吳署長欣修：是這樣的，因為我們之前就已經跟地方的建築師工會，還有相關人員都有開過會，他們都非常願意出來協助處理這些事情。包含地方要成立管委會組織，我們接洽過這些工會，他們都願意出來。第二個，我們有給地方政府相關顧問團隊的經費，這部分也是他們可以用來協助社區來做整合的一些經費。"],["牛委員煦庭：我是覺得這樣子的講法還是太模糊了，因為我們要聽到的是比如哪一個協會、哪一些人可以直接來處理這個事，我才能追蹤這個效果。"],["吳署長欣修：其實工會都有表達意願，他們都……"],["牛委員煦庭：工會有表達意願？"],["吳署長欣修：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：但我覺得這不夠具體。而且第二個，你剛剛有講成立管理組織等等，它也是需要行政作業流程跟時間嘛！我們這個特別預算下去，我當然希望看到效果。比如說下去沒有辦法很好執行，或者是說中央確實有出錢，可是地方上收了補助，但不見得能夠妥善地去使用，這個應該要追蹤一下啦！"],["吳署長欣修：是，這個也會補助地方政府運作。"],["牛委員煦庭：有關界面整合的部分，請你會後提供一份書面報告，我們要了解狀況。"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：第二個，本席要做個建議。我希望你們在處理這個政策的時候，既然要花50億元特別預算，如果界面整合問題可以解決，老宅最後要延壽，我要讓它可長可久，那是不是在這整合的過程，我拿了政府的錢做了部分的修繕之後，我也要去考量未來？我們現在公寓大廈都希望有長期修繕計畫，這些老宅延壽拿了政府補助的，是不是也要有相關的人要去輔導，要把相關的長期修繕計畫制定出來？不然每次都是政府有資源，有些有用到，有些沒用到，用完了就算了，然後再等下一波資源，這樣也不是辦法。既然政府要下資源，我就希望有長尾效應嘛！","所以我希望政府在執行這個預算的時候，要有一些條件。也就是說，既然都要整合了，大家就開個會嘛！一起也把長期修繕計畫納入，也許變成一個指標或怎麼樣，讓這筆錢下去之後，它才能夠真正達成延壽的效果嘛！這樣你下的錢才會值得啦！第二點是本席的政策建議。"],["吳署長欣修：感謝委員，我可以理解委員的用心。就是希望這個管理組織變成是一個長期可運作的，而且是確定……"],["牛委員煦庭：是啊！成立管理組織會有修繕計畫嘛！對不對？"],["吳署長欣修：對，真的確定後續有一些修繕的計畫或是長期，它會因此……本來沒有在收管理費、修繕費的，現在開始來運作、來收。"],["牛委員煦庭：對啦！你把這50億當成一個開頭，當他建立好的模式之後，也許就會轉正，變成一個長期執行的計畫，但他一定要有相關的效果，最後讓每一棟5樓的公寓都有相關的修繕計畫，這才是真正的老宅延壽，好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：好，我們會來努力。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以希望國土署用點心，內政部用點心，好嗎？"],["吳署長欣修：好，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：辛苦了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭委員。","接下來請伍麗華委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":410,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-20,15,35,19,22,26-1","speakers":["林思銘","林德福","吳秉叡","顏寬恒","陳亭妃","賴士葆","郭國文","蘇巧慧","賴惠員","柯志恩","萬美玲","葉元之","鄭正鈐","黃秀芳","黃珊珊","林宜瑾","李坤城","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","張宏陸","賴瑞隆","羅明才","郭昱晴","羅美玲","謝龍介","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","羅廷瑋","張智倫","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","邱志偉","王美惠","蔡易餘","牛煦庭","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","張雅琳","林月琴","盧縣一","馬文君","沈伯洋","張啓楷","吳沛憶","范雲","王正旭","林楚茵"],"page_start":71,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148101_00003","1148101_00004","1148101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」","agenda_id":"1148101_00002"}}}