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{\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 743.27, \"end\": 743.451, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 743.451, \"end\": 743.651, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 743.651, \"end\": 743.831, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 743.831, \"end\": 744.091, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 744.091, \"end\": 744.411, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 744.411, \"end\": 744.571, \"score\": 0.744}, {\"word\": \"走\", \"start\": 744.571, \"end\": 744.671, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 744.671, \"end\": 744.831, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 744.831, \"end\": 745.011, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 745.011, \"end\": 745.332, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 745.332, \"end\": 745.552, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"透\", \"start\": 745.552, \"end\": 745.572, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"過\"}]}, {\"start\": 746.452, \"end\": 758.368, \"text\": \"我覺得一審二審然後讓他等待三千天最後得到的結果呢假設是最後第三審是實在認定的話真的這些損失到底要跟誰要這個三千天確實蠻長的所以這也是這個勞工很辛苦的地方\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 746.452, \"end\": 746.713, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 746.713, \"end\": 746.813, \"score\": 0.519}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 746.813, \"end\": 747.133, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 747.133, \"end\": 747.554, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 747.554, \"end\": 747.674, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 747.674, \"end\": 747.974, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 747.974, \"end\": 748.135, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 748.135, \"end\": 748.295, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"待\", \"start\": 748.295, \"end\": 748.435, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 748.435, \"end\": 748.675, \"score\": 0.684}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 748.675, \"end\": 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00:00:52,879\n所以今年3月8月勞動部的確推出了一個僱用安定措施跟強化版讓減班休息的勞工可以申請到我們的差額補貼所以我首先我想問部長目前為止通報減班休息的數量大概有多少增長的幅度是不是有趨緩現在最新的數據在10月1號那是\n\n3\n00:00:56,073 --> 00:01:10,312\n最新的是8505是8505那相比於前一期9月16號的時候那是增加1000多那9月16號當天因為我們一個月會公布兩次兩個禮拜公布一次那\n\n4\n00:01:10,792 --> 00:01:38,093\n9月16號當時公布的那一次其實增加大概2400多那到10月1號這次的公布它的增加是大概1100所以確實增加的數字有比9月16號來的低可是還是增加所以我們還是用權力戒備的態度我們不會鬆懈我們也不會輕忽但我們也一直在監測這個數據但確實數據有的時候它會有一些它的上下可是我們可能還要看長期的趨勢\n\n5\n00:01:40,636 --> 00:02:03,795\n謝謝部長的努力剛剛也講說確實有成長可是還是比前一個時間點有減緩可面對關稅的一個微確定性的話預期申請減班休息的數量可能會越來越多所以根據部內的資料目前強化版的雇用安定措施所補助的九大產業就業保險投保人數大概有\n\n6\n00:02:05,575 --> 00:02:25,060\n105萬人那他們是目前美國關稅下最可能受到衝擊的潛在勞工當然不是全部都會受到影響可是還是要看關稅的談判的進度跟結果而定所以現在的強化版預計可以接住多少的勞工勞動部又能夠提供多少的量呢\n\n7\n00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:43,797\n我跟文說明這邊講到的一百零五萬絕對不是這一百零五萬都會受到影響是我知道因為有些看到一百零萬但絕對不是一百零萬都受到影響那其實現在基本上我們並沒有什麼量能上的限制也就是說只要\n\n8\n00:02:44,997 --> 00:03:07,826\n有減班休息的狀況然後企業通報然後勞工朋友來跟我們申請甚至我剛剛我們講到如果有這個勞工朋友來說他們企業沒有通報其實我們也可以把它放入到這個我們的名單裡面那這是剛才陳委員剛才有講到的部分我們會直接把它放到名單裡面那只要放到名單裡面他就可以來跟我們申請強化版的公安訂措施\n\n9\n00:03:08,086 --> 00:03:31,929\n可是部長強化版的僱用安定措施基金來源是救安基金所以如果編入因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案當中如果這筆特別預算假設沒有通過的話那已經申請減班休息的通報個案的薪資貼補會不會受到影響那勞動部要如何因應跟委員說明\n\n10\n00:03:33,050 --> 00:03:51,812\n強化版公安訂措施的經費來源是來自救保跟特別預算兩個都有可是如果假設我剛剛前面問你說那到底可以接住多少你說都不會都沒有量可是經費沒有考量所以我們現在現在大院也在九樓正在審查這個\n\n11\n00:03:53,133 --> 00:04:13,742\n特別預算我們當然希望爭取我們這一次行政院讓我們編列150億的特別預算能夠順利的通過我想這個因為這個錢真的都是來支持勞工來協助勞工的錢對是很重要的對我們希望真的能夠能夠讓這個順利的然後能夠三讀然後讓勞工朋友有一個更大的支持\n\n12\n00:04:16,037 --> 00:04:27,601\n在這些受到影響申請減班休息的勞工裡邊包括了中高齡的就業者根據勞動部的資料中高齡就業者就45歲以上在製造業中佔全體的42.22%\n\n13\n00:04:30,402 --> 00:04:44,768\n製造業事實上是關稅的重災區一旦企業實施減班休息也就是他們往往會被列為優先的休息名單我們好不容易通過中高齡及高齡者就業促進法希望讓中高齡成為勞動力來源的新選項\n\n14\n00:04:48,490 --> 00:05:04,927\n以解決我們少子化的問題可是他們可能都是而且他們最主要是他們可能都是每一個家庭經濟支柱而且中高齡可能事實上是這時候是負擔最大的孩子可能在念私立大學然後呢家裡的支出如果他還有房貸的話這些都會是一個問題\n\n15\n00:05:06,008 --> 00:05:31,014\n那他需要撫養孩子也可能需要撫養長輩再加上年紀的因素職場本來就很不友善的話如果再因為減班的休息減少收入那就會沒辦法支撐他平常所的一些開銷所以想問部長說這些申請減班休息的勞工當中有多少的中高齡是不是你能夠很充分的去掌握到這個比例\n\n16\n00:05:32,499 --> 00:05:49,647\n我想其實因為如果通報的勞工當然是可以講我們當然是可以去進一步去去確認大家有多少比例是中高齡但是就是剛剛委員講其實講的沒有錯其實我們在這一次相關的移民關稅跟勞工的這個就業措施裡面其實我們特別關注中高齡的問題\n\n17\n00:05:50,908 --> 00:06:05,948\n所以其實在我們10月發布了一個計畫叫做勞工就業通在這個勞工就業通計畫裡面我們也特別把幾個服務整合進來其中一個很重要的就是職務在設計因為如果我們要協助中高齡的勞工失業的話要轉業\n\n18\n00:06:07,731 --> 00:06:33,712\n轉業的時候他們會特別需要比方像植物在設計這樣子的服務來讓他能夠更適應可能一個新的就業環境所以我們特別把像這樣給整合進來那另外其實我們也考慮到這所以我們其實這段時間一些辦訓所以我們也請發安署在辦訓訓練的過程裡面特別針對希望針對多一些是針對中高齡的勞工他們可能現在所需要的一些技能的訓練來去做課程的設計\n\n19\n00:06:35,353 --> 00:06:52,095\n我們這都是特別思考到說那怎麼樣更多顧及到中高齡勞工的狀況我覺得真的要注意因為我去年在質詢的時候針對勞動議題就已經講過說很多55歲以上就被優退表面上叫優退實際上就是某種程度上資遣\n\n20\n00:06:52,615 --> 00:07:19,829\n對他們很多時候事實上是家庭資助者的話通常不利條件那接下來這個關稅的狀況又是比較多時候事實上製造業的又比較多是中高齡最大衝擊又在中高齡所以我們很擔心所以我也希望勞動部可以去做這樣的一個調查所以也要確定所謂的減班休息是不是真正的雙方合意還是事實上是資方強迫的我覺得\n\n21\n00:07:20,069 --> 00:07:27,140\n如果是強迫的有人來檢舉就是說沒有經過勞工同意的話那這其實就是違反勞基法22條但這是我們會直接開罰的\n\n22\n00:07:29,156 --> 00:07:56,261\n可是有沒有就說這種也很怕的事實上是通常為什麼過去我們的受僱方會比較不敢去做申訴有時候是被點名做記號的所以對他們來講也是有一些壓力所以我是建議說是不是建立我們的減班休息的通報的年齡的分布統計以外然後能夠掌握到我們中高齡的勞工的一個整個通報數量還有能夠定期去做調查\n\n23\n00:07:56,881 --> 00:08:25,486\n來掌握我們的減班休息的落實的一些狀況第三個事實上還是要強化中高齡就業者的主動關懷這個也是我去年一直再三提醒說55歲以上真的我們去了解他們所被優退真的事實上是優退嗎還是事實上是被另外一種支遣的方式只是為了減少因為畢竟如果到的小小主管的時候薪水比較高的話把他優退他再請一個薪水比較低的我覺得都很不利於我們的中高齡的人\n\n24\n00:08:26,346 --> 00:08:46,192\n那再來就是想問是說整個面對職災的勞工政府到底能做什麼因為目前勞工職業災害保險跟保護法裡面在111年的5月1號正式施行之後勞動部在持續推動這個所謂的FARP\n\n25\n00:08:48,653 --> 00:09:00,977\n那跟地方政府來配合關懷勞工那到底這個主動關懷到底是什麼尤其事實上從你們的調查裡面也就是說你們職業災害的失能勞工就業關懷調查就發現說他們平均緩肥職場要12.2個月\n\n26\n00:09:06,118 --> 00:09:28,104\n甚至復工的實際化的協商植栽的人力都是曠日廢時所以我們想問這110年的調查有它的意義在才會知道有12.2個月可是110年調查之後就不再調查所以想問說關懷調查有沒有要再啟動才能夠了解你的主動關懷到底有沒有辦法落實而且這種關懷到底能不能讓他們\n\n27\n00:09:30,024 --> 00:09:44,039\n能夠是得到因為有數據才能夠有後邊的對應措施所以想問說你這個職業災害失能的勞工就業關懷調查要持續調查嗎因為我們要知道他到底有沒有能夠發揮效用\n\n28\n00:09:45,553 --> 00:10:11,887\n這個跟穆委員說明其實對於職財勞工的關懷我想這件事情是我們一定會持續做的甚至我們包括職安署跟地方的勞政單位其實我們都有相關專業的人力持續在做這個它是用一個個案管理的方式在處理所以它可能不是不一定是一次性的調查對這個部分來說是持續性要做的工作那至於重返職場的時間因為確實不同的勞工他的狀況不一樣\n\n29\n00:10:14,608 --> 00:10:36,584\n有些如果他比較嚴重的他就需要比較久一點的時間有的時候甚至我們也看到一些案例是勞工明明他覺得他還沒有好他還需要持續的在做這個復原的休養的狀況但是資方一直覺得你就趕快上工你趕快上工然後這裡面產生的衝突我們也看到一些案例是這種狀況所以確實這個能夠重返職場的時間有\n\n30\n00:10:41,201 --> 00:11:09,017\n所以部長相對的關懷協助會落差蠻大的你這一個有一個段落叫做關懷協助所以你的主動關懷協助就很重要所以我覺得政府應該發揮主動的服務的精神一定是主動因為我們甚至是用個案管理的方式來做這個關懷那也包括統整相關的資源能夠讓職災勞工可以了解他可以有什麼資源包括就醫的資源保險的資源或者是哪些部分他其實可以來做使用就是用個案管理的方式為什麼我會去提就用這個案例為此案為例就是說\n\n31\n00:11:10,297 --> 00:11:30,324\n職災的勞工家屬在一審判定的時候不是職災當初你們勞動部也是判定他不是職災可是二審的時候判定卻又是職災那不管最後三審結果為何這個據案發時間已經三千天了請問部長這之間的所有損失都可以申請嗎如果不行的話有沒有其他方式可以幫助職災家屬呢\n\n32\n00:11:31,644 --> 00:11:41,134\n那而且旨在勞工個案主動服務再次指示有沒有主動介入因為剛剛講的關懷協助是這樣蠻重要的所以過去有沒有介入如何質疑\n\n33\n00:11:43,294 --> 00:12:06,782\n還是要跟委員說其實我們的PASS都希望能夠都是主動協助但如果有做的更好的空間那我們也願意來做一些檢討但的確我們PASS的同仁是很辛苦但是有更好的空間我們都願意來檢討那這個案子我們非常非常關注確實他一審和二審的判決不一樣所以我們也跟當時我們也跟這些相關的包括他的協助的團體\n\n34\n00:12:08,863 --> 00:12:25,572\n來跟他們說如果需要做一些重新的檢視我們也很願意來做重新的檢視來做相關的認定部長可能未來真的要更進一步的是如果真的個案能夠及早去介入的話那事實幫助大概就不會要讓他走到司法還要透過\n\n35\n00:12:26,452 --> 00:12:38,368\n我覺得一審二審然後讓他等待三千天最後得到的結果呢假設是最後第三審是實在認定的話真的這些損失到底要跟誰要這個三千天確實蠻長的所以這也是這個勞工很辛苦的地方\n\n36\n00:12:42,032 --> 00:13:07,181\n但是的確在三年前災保法上路以後現在整體的機制是有更完備那包括PASS他要協助掌握跟整合的一些服務也更完備那我們但我們最近其實也在做相關的檢討能夠給職債勞工什麼更多的制度性的支持那我們會盡快來把給職債勞工更制度性的支持我們會盡快的來這個政策研擬到一個階段我們就會來公佈\n\n37\n00:13:07,621 --> 00:13:32,313\n所以最後我的建議就是請盤點FAP專業服務人員的人數進行適當的分配還有檢討現行的給付機制及時保障我們的勞權還有縮短真的行政程序有時候聽說派案通報之後派案還要三個月所以讓他們可以加速重返職場如果他們能夠身體狀況OK的話能夠重返職場的話應該加速我們都願意來檢討謝謝副長謝謝\n\n38\n00:13:37,687 --> 00:13:38,411\n謝謝林月琴委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3271\t28633\t主席麻煩我們的勞動部部長有請洪部長部長早美國關稅雖然還在談判階段可是關稅政策進口的產品的調整還有台幣的匯率的波動還是讓台灣以出國為主出口的為主的製造業受到衝擊我相信部長應該也知道\n29614\t52879\t所以今年3月8月勞動部的確推出了一個僱用安定措施跟強化版讓減班休息的勞工可以申請到我們的差額補貼所以我首先我想問部長目前為止通報減班休息的數量大概有多少增長的幅度是不是有趨緩現在最新的數據在10月1號那是\n56073\t70312\t最新的是8505是8505那相比於前一期9月16號的時候那是增加1000多那9月16號當天因為我們一個月會公布兩次兩個禮拜公布一次那\n70792\t98093\t9月16號當時公布的那一次其實增加大概2400多那到10月1號這次的公布它的增加是大概1100所以確實增加的數字有比9月16號來的低可是還是增加所以我們還是用權力戒備的態度我們不會鬆懈我們也不會輕忽但我們也一直在監測這個數據但確實數據有的時候它會有一些它的上下可是我們可能還要看長期的趨勢\n100636\t123795\t謝謝部長的努力剛剛也講說確實有成長可是還是比前一個時間點有減緩可面對關稅的一個微確定性的話預期申請減班休息的數量可能會越來越多所以根據部內的資料目前強化版的雇用安定措施所補助的九大產業就業保險投保人數大概有\n125575\t145060\t105萬人那他們是目前美國關稅下最可能受到衝擊的潛在勞工當然不是全部都會受到影響可是還是要看關稅的談判的進度跟結果而定所以現在的強化版預計可以接住多少的勞工勞動部又能夠提供多少的量呢\n145880\t163797\t我跟文說明這邊講到的一百零五萬絕對不是這一百零五萬都會受到影響是我知道因為有些看到一百零萬但絕對不是一百零萬都受到影響那其實現在基本上我們並沒有什麼量能上的限制也就是說只要\n164997\t187826\t有減班休息的狀況然後企業通報然後勞工朋友來跟我們申請甚至我剛剛我們講到如果有這個勞工朋友來說他們企業沒有通報其實我們也可以把它放入到這個我們的名單裡面那這是剛才陳委員剛才有講到的部分我們會直接把它放到名單裡面那只要放到名單裡面他就可以來跟我們申請強化版的公安訂措施\n188086\t211929\t可是部長強化版的僱用安定措施基金來源是救安基金所以如果編入因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案當中如果這筆特別預算假設沒有通過的話那已經申請減班休息的通報個案的薪資貼補會不會受到影響那勞動部要如何因應跟委員說明\n213050\t231812\t強化版公安訂措施的經費來源是來自救保跟特別預算兩個都有可是如果假設我剛剛前面問你說那到底可以接住多少你說都不會都沒有量可是經費沒有考量所以我們現在現在大院也在九樓正在審查這個\n233133\t253742\t特別預算我們當然希望爭取我們這一次行政院讓我們編列150億的特別預算能夠順利的通過我想這個因為這個錢真的都是來支持勞工來協助勞工的錢對是很重要的對我們希望真的能夠能夠讓這個順利的然後能夠三讀然後讓勞工朋友有一個更大的支持\n256037\t267601\t在這些受到影響申請減班休息的勞工裡邊包括了中高齡的就業者根據勞動部的資料中高齡就業者就45歲以上在製造業中佔全體的42.22%\n270402\t284768\t製造業事實上是關稅的重災區一旦企業實施減班休息也就是他們往往會被列為優先的休息名單我們好不容易通過中高齡及高齡者就業促進法希望讓中高齡成為勞動力來源的新選項\n288490\t304927\t以解決我們少子化的問題可是他們可能都是而且他們最主要是他們可能都是每一個家庭經濟支柱而且中高齡可能事實上是這時候是負擔最大的孩子可能在念私立大學然後呢家裡的支出如果他還有房貸的話這些都會是一個問題\n306008\t331014\t那他需要撫養孩子也可能需要撫養長輩再加上年紀的因素職場本來就很不友善的話如果再因為減班的休息減少收入那就會沒辦法支撐他平常所的一些開銷所以想問部長說這些申請減班休息的勞工當中有多少的中高齡是不是你能夠很充分的去掌握到這個比例\n332499\t349647\t我想其實因為如果通報的勞工當然是可以講我們當然是可以去進一步去去確認大家有多少比例是中高齡但是就是剛剛委員講其實講的沒有錯其實我們在這一次相關的移民關稅跟勞工的這個就業措施裡面其實我們特別關注中高齡的問題\n350908\t365948\t所以其實在我們10月發布了一個計畫叫做勞工就業通在這個勞工就業通計畫裡面我們也特別把幾個服務整合進來其中一個很重要的就是職務在設計因為如果我們要協助中高齡的勞工失業的話要轉業\n367731\t393712\t轉業的時候他們會特別需要比方像植物在設計這樣子的服務來讓他能夠更適應可能一個新的就業環境所以我們特別把像這樣給整合進來那另外其實我們也考慮到這所以我們其實這段時間一些辦訓所以我們也請發安署在辦訓訓練的過程裡面特別針對希望針對多一些是針對中高齡的勞工他們可能現在所需要的一些技能的訓練來去做課程的設計\n395353\t412095\t我們這都是特別思考到說那怎麼樣更多顧及到中高齡勞工的狀況我覺得真的要注意因為我去年在質詢的時候針對勞動議題就已經講過說很多55歲以上就被優退表面上叫優退 實際上就是某種程度上資遣\n412615\t439829\t對他們很多時候事實上是家庭資助者的話通常不利條件那接下來這個關稅的狀況又是比較多時候事實上製造業的又比較多是中高齡最大衝擊又在中高齡所以我們很擔心所以我也希望勞動部可以去做這樣的一個調查所以也要確定所謂的減班休息是不是真正的雙方合意還是事實上是資方強迫的我覺得\n440069\t447140\t如果是強迫的有人來檢舉就是說沒有經過勞工同意的話那這其實就是違反勞基法22條但這是我們會直接開罰的\n449156\t476261\t可是有沒有就說這種也很怕的事實上是通常為什麼過去我們的受僱方會比較不敢去做申訴有時候是被點名做記號的所以對他們來講也是有一些壓力所以我是建議說是不是建立我們的減班休息的通報的年齡的分布統計以外然後能夠掌握到我們中高齡的勞工的一個整個通報數量還有能夠定期去做調查\n476881\t505486\t來掌握我們的減班休息的落實的一些狀況第三個事實上還是要強化中高齡就業者的主動關懷這個也是我去年一直再三提醒說55歲以上真的我們去了解他們所被優退真的事實上是優退嗎還是事實上是被另外一種支遣的方式只是為了減少因為畢竟如果到的小小主管的時候薪水比較高的話把他優退他再請一個薪水比較低的我覺得都很不利於我們的中高齡的人\n506346\t526192\t那再來就是想問是說整個面對職災的勞工政府到底能做什麼因為目前勞工職業災害保險跟保護法裡面在111年的5月1號正式施行之後勞動部在持續推動這個所謂的FARP\n528653\t540977\t那跟地方政府來配合關懷勞工那到底這個主動關懷到底是什麼尤其事實上從你們的調查裡面也就是說你們職業災害的失能勞工就業關懷調查就發現說他們平均緩肥職場要12.2個月\n546118\t568104\t甚至復工的實際化的協商 植栽的人力都是曠日廢時所以我們想問這110年的調查有它的意義在才會知道有12.2個月可是110年調查之後就不再調查所以想問說關懷調查有沒有要再啟動才能夠了解你的主動關懷到底有沒有辦法落實而且這種關懷到底能不能讓他們\n570024\t584039\t能夠是得到因為有數據才能夠有後邊的對應措施所以想問說你這個職業災害失能的勞工就業關懷調查要持續調查嗎因為我們要知道他到底有沒有能夠發揮效用\n585553\t611887\t這個跟穆委員說明其實對於職財勞工的關懷我想這件事情是我們一定會持續做的甚至我們包括職安署跟地方的勞政單位其實我們都有相關專業的人力持續在做這個它是用一個個案管理的方式在處理所以它可能不是不一定是一次性的調查對這個部分來說是持續性要做的工作那至於重返職場的時間因為確實不同的勞工他的狀況不一樣\n614608\t636584\t有些如果他比較嚴重的他就需要比較久一點的時間有的時候甚至我們也看到一些案例是勞工明明他覺得他還沒有好他還需要持續的在做這個復原的休養的狀況但是資方一直覺得你就趕快上工你趕快上工然後這裡面產生的衝突我們也看到一些案例是這種狀況所以確實這個能夠重返職場的時間有\n641201\t669017\t所以部長相對的關懷協助會落差蠻大的你這一個有一個段落叫做關懷協助所以你的主動關懷協助就很重要所以我覺得政府應該發揮主動的服務的精神一定是主動因為我們甚至是用個案管理的方式來做這個關懷那也包括統整相關的資源能夠讓職災勞工可以了解他可以有什麼資源包括就醫的資源 保險的資源或者是哪些部分他其實可以來做使用就是用個案管理的方式為什麼我會去提就用這個案例為此案為例就是說\n670297\t690324\t職災的勞工家屬在一審判定的時候不是職災當初你們勞動部也是判定他不是職災可是二審的時候判定卻又是職災那不管最後三審結果為何這個據案發時間已經三千天了請問部長這之間的所有損失都可以申請嗎如果不行的話有沒有其他方式可以幫助職災家屬呢\n691644\t701134\t那而且旨在勞工個案主動服務再次指示有沒有主動介入因為剛剛講的關懷協助是這樣蠻重要的所以過去有沒有介入如何質疑\n703294\t726782\t還是要跟委員說其實我們的PASS都希望能夠都是主動協助但如果有做的更好的空間那我們也願意來做一些檢討但的確我們PASS的同仁是很辛苦但是有更好的空間我們都願意來檢討那這個案子我們非常非常關注確實他一審和二審的判決不一樣所以我們也跟當時我們也跟這些相關的包括他的協助的團體\n728863\t745572\t來跟他們說如果需要做一些重新的檢視我們也很願意來做重新的檢視來做相關的認定部長可能未來真的要更進一步的是如果真的個案能夠及早去介入的話那事實幫助大概就不會要讓他走到司法還要透過\n746452\t758368\t我覺得一審二審然後讓他等待三千天最後得到的結果呢假設是最後第三審是實在認定的話真的這些損失到底要跟誰要這個三千天確實蠻長的所以這也是這個勞工很辛苦的地方\n762032\t787181\t但是的確在三年前災保法上路以後現在整體的機制是有更完備那包括PASS他要協助掌握跟整合的一些服務也更完備那我們但我們最近其實也在做相關的檢討能夠給職債勞工什麼更多的制度性的支持那我們會盡快來把給職債勞工更制度性的支持我們會盡快的來這個政策研擬到一個階段我們就會來公佈\n787621\t812313\t所以最後我的建議就是請盤點FAP專業服務人員的人數進行適當的分配還有檢討現行的給付機制及時保障我們的勞權還有縮短真的行政程序有時候聽說派案通報之後派案還要三個月所以讓他們可以加速重返職場如果他們能夠身體狀況OK的話能夠重返職場的話應該加速我們都願意來檢討謝謝副長 謝謝\n817687\t818411\t謝謝林月琴委員發言\n","txt":"主席麻煩我們的勞動部部長有請洪部長部長早美國關稅雖然還在談判階段可是關稅政策進口的產品的調整還有台幣的匯率的波動還是讓台灣以出國為主出口的為主的製造業受到衝擊我相信部長應該也知道\n所以今年3月8月勞動部的確推出了一個僱用安定措施跟強化版讓減班休息的勞工可以申請到我們的差額補貼所以我首先我想問部長目前為止通報減班休息的數量大概有多少增長的幅度是不是有趨緩現在最新的數據在10月1號那是\n最新的是8505是8505那相比於前一期9月16號的時候那是增加1000多那9月16號當天因為我們一個月會公布兩次兩個禮拜公布一次那\n9月16號當時公布的那一次其實增加大概2400多那到10月1號這次的公布它的增加是大概1100所以確實增加的數字有比9月16號來的低可是還是增加所以我們還是用權力戒備的態度我們不會鬆懈我們也不會輕忽但我們也一直在監測這個數據但確實數據有的時候它會有一些它的上下可是我們可能還要看長期的趨勢\n謝謝部長的努力剛剛也講說確實有成長可是還是比前一個時間點有減緩可面對關稅的一個微確定性的話預期申請減班休息的數量可能會越來越多所以根據部內的資料目前強化版的雇用安定措施所補助的九大產業就業保險投保人數大概有\n105萬人那他們是目前美國關稅下最可能受到衝擊的潛在勞工當然不是全部都會受到影響可是還是要看關稅的談判的進度跟結果而定所以現在的強化版預計可以接住多少的勞工勞動部又能夠提供多少的量呢\n我跟文說明這邊講到的一百零五萬絕對不是這一百零五萬都會受到影響是我知道因為有些看到一百零萬但絕對不是一百零萬都受到影響那其實現在基本上我們並沒有什麼量能上的限制也就是說只要\n有減班休息的狀況然後企業通報然後勞工朋友來跟我們申請甚至我剛剛我們講到如果有這個勞工朋友來說他們企業沒有通報其實我們也可以把它放入到這個我們的名單裡面那這是剛才陳委員剛才有講到的部分我們會直接把它放到名單裡面那只要放到名單裡面他就可以來跟我們申請強化版的公安訂措施\n可是部長強化版的僱用安定措施基金來源是救安基金所以如果編入因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案當中如果這筆特別預算假設沒有通過的話那已經申請減班休息的通報個案的薪資貼補會不會受到影響那勞動部要如何因應跟委員說明\n強化版公安訂措施的經費來源是來自救保跟特別預算兩個都有可是如果假設我剛剛前面問你說那到底可以接住多少你說都不會都沒有量可是經費沒有考量所以我們現在現在大院也在九樓正在審查這個\n特別預算我們當然希望爭取我們這一次行政院讓我們編列150億的特別預算能夠順利的通過我想這個因為這個錢真的都是來支持勞工來協助勞工的錢對是很重要的對我們希望真的能夠能夠讓這個順利的然後能夠三讀然後讓勞工朋友有一個更大的支持\n在這些受到影響申請減班休息的勞工裡邊包括了中高齡的就業者根據勞動部的資料中高齡就業者就45歲以上在製造業中佔全體的42.22%\n製造業事實上是關稅的重災區一旦企業實施減班休息也就是他們往往會被列為優先的休息名單我們好不容易通過中高齡及高齡者就業促進法希望讓中高齡成為勞動力來源的新選項\n以解決我們少子化的問題可是他們可能都是而且他們最主要是他們可能都是每一個家庭經濟支柱而且中高齡可能事實上是這時候是負擔最大的孩子可能在念私立大學然後呢家裡的支出如果他還有房貸的話這些都會是一個問題\n那他需要撫養孩子也可能需要撫養長輩再加上年紀的因素職場本來就很不友善的話如果再因為減班的休息減少收入那就會沒辦法支撐他平常所的一些開銷所以想問部長說這些申請減班休息的勞工當中有多少的中高齡是不是你能夠很充分的去掌握到這個比例\n我想其實因為如果通報的勞工當然是可以講我們當然是可以去進一步去去確認大家有多少比例是中高齡但是就是剛剛委員講其實講的沒有錯其實我們在這一次相關的移民關稅跟勞工的這個就業措施裡面其實我們特別關注中高齡的問題\n所以其實在我們10月發布了一個計畫叫做勞工就業通在這個勞工就業通計畫裡面我們也特別把幾個服務整合進來其中一個很重要的就是職務在設計因為如果我們要協助中高齡的勞工失業的話要轉業\n轉業的時候他們會特別需要比方像植物在設計這樣子的服務來讓他能夠更適應可能一個新的就業環境所以我們特別把像這樣給整合進來那另外其實我們也考慮到這所以我們其實這段時間一些辦訓所以我們也請發安署在辦訓訓練的過程裡面特別針對希望針對多一些是針對中高齡的勞工他們可能現在所需要的一些技能的訓練來去做課程的設計\n我們這都是特別思考到說那怎麼樣更多顧及到中高齡勞工的狀況我覺得真的要注意因為我去年在質詢的時候針對勞動議題就已經講過說很多55歲以上就被優退表面上叫優退 實際上就是某種程度上資遣\n對他們很多時候事實上是家庭資助者的話通常不利條件那接下來這個關稅的狀況又是比較多時候事實上製造業的又比較多是中高齡最大衝擊又在中高齡所以我們很擔心所以我也希望勞動部可以去做這樣的一個調查所以也要確定所謂的減班休息是不是真正的雙方合意還是事實上是資方強迫的我覺得\n如果是強迫的有人來檢舉就是說沒有經過勞工同意的話那這其實就是違反勞基法22條但這是我們會直接開罰的\n可是有沒有就說這種也很怕的事實上是通常為什麼過去我們的受僱方會比較不敢去做申訴有時候是被點名做記號的所以對他們來講也是有一些壓力所以我是建議說是不是建立我們的減班休息的通報的年齡的分布統計以外然後能夠掌握到我們中高齡的勞工的一個整個通報數量還有能夠定期去做調查\n來掌握我們的減班休息的落實的一些狀況第三個事實上還是要強化中高齡就業者的主動關懷這個也是我去年一直再三提醒說55歲以上真的我們去了解他們所被優退真的事實上是優退嗎還是事實上是被另外一種支遣的方式只是為了減少因為畢竟如果到的小小主管的時候薪水比較高的話把他優退他再請一個薪水比較低的我覺得都很不利於我們的中高齡的人\n那再來就是想問是說整個面對職災的勞工政府到底能做什麼因為目前勞工職業災害保險跟保護法裡面在111年的5月1號正式施行之後勞動部在持續推動這個所謂的FARP\n那跟地方政府來配合關懷勞工那到底這個主動關懷到底是什麼尤其事實上從你們的調查裡面也就是說你們職業災害的失能勞工就業關懷調查就發現說他們平均緩肥職場要12.2個月\n甚至復工的實際化的協商 植栽的人力都是曠日廢時所以我們想問這110年的調查有它的意義在才會知道有12.2個月可是110年調查之後就不再調查所以想問說關懷調查有沒有要再啟動才能夠了解你的主動關懷到底有沒有辦法落實而且這種關懷到底能不能讓他們\n能夠是得到因為有數據才能夠有後邊的對應措施所以想問說你這個職業災害失能的勞工就業關懷調查要持續調查嗎因為我們要知道他到底有沒有能夠發揮效用\n這個跟穆委員說明其實對於職財勞工的關懷我想這件事情是我們一定會持續做的甚至我們包括職安署跟地方的勞政單位其實我們都有相關專業的人力持續在做這個它是用一個個案管理的方式在處理所以它可能不是不一定是一次性的調查對這個部分來說是持續性要做的工作那至於重返職場的時間因為確實不同的勞工他的狀況不一樣\n有些如果他比較嚴重的他就需要比較久一點的時間有的時候甚至我們也看到一些案例是勞工明明他覺得他還沒有好他還需要持續的在做這個復原的休養的狀況但是資方一直覺得你就趕快上工你趕快上工然後這裡面產生的衝突我們也看到一些案例是這種狀況所以確實這個能夠重返職場的時間有\n所以部長相對的關懷協助會落差蠻大的你這一個有一個段落叫做關懷協助所以你的主動關懷協助就很重要所以我覺得政府應該發揮主動的服務的精神一定是主動因為我們甚至是用個案管理的方式來做這個關懷那也包括統整相關的資源能夠讓職災勞工可以了解他可以有什麼資源包括就醫的資源 保險的資源或者是哪些部分他其實可以來做使用就是用個案管理的方式為什麼我會去提就用這個案例為此案為例就是說\n職災的勞工家屬在一審判定的時候不是職災當初你們勞動部也是判定他不是職災可是二審的時候判定卻又是職災那不管最後三審結果為何這個據案發時間已經三千天了請問部長這之間的所有損失都可以申請嗎如果不行的話有沒有其他方式可以幫助職災家屬呢\n那而且旨在勞工個案主動服務再次指示有沒有主動介入因為剛剛講的關懷協助是這樣蠻重要的所以過去有沒有介入如何質疑\n還是要跟委員說其實我們的PASS都希望能夠都是主動協助但如果有做的更好的空間那我們也願意來做一些檢討但的確我們PASS的同仁是很辛苦但是有更好的空間我們都願意來檢討那這個案子我們非常非常關注確實他一審和二審的判決不一樣所以我們也跟當時我們也跟這些相關的包括他的協助的團體\n來跟他們說如果需要做一些重新的檢視我們也很願意來做重新的檢視來做相關的認定部長可能未來真的要更進一步的是如果真的個案能夠及早去介入的話那事實幫助大概就不會要讓他走到司法還要透過\n我覺得一審二審然後讓他等待三千天最後得到的結果呢假設是最後第三審是實在認定的話真的這些損失到底要跟誰要這個三千天確實蠻長的所以這也是這個勞工很辛苦的地方\n但是的確在三年前災保法上路以後現在整體的機制是有更完備那包括PASS他要協助掌握跟整合的一些服務也更完備那我們但我們最近其實也在做相關的檢討能夠給職債勞工什麼更多的制度性的支持那我們會盡快來把給職債勞工更制度性的支持我們會盡快的來這個政策研擬到一個階段我們就會來公佈\n所以最後我的建議就是請盤點FAP專業服務人員的人數進行適當的分配還有檢討現行的給付機制及時保障我們的勞權還有縮短真的行政程序有時候聽說派案通報之後派案還要三個月所以讓他們可以加速重返職場如果他們能夠身體狀況OK的話能夠重返職場的話應該加速我們都願意來檢討謝謝副長 謝謝\n謝謝林月琴委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.271 --> 00:28.633\n主席麻煩我們的勞動部部長有請洪部長部長早美國關稅雖然還在談判階段可是關稅政策進口的產品的調整還有台幣的匯率的波動還是讓台灣以出國為主出口的為主的製造業受到衝擊我相信部長應該也知道\n\n00:29.614 --> 00:52.879\n所以今年3月8月勞動部的確推出了一個僱用安定措施跟強化版讓減班休息的勞工可以申請到我們的差額補貼所以我首先我想問部長目前為止通報減班休息的數量大概有多少增長的幅度是不是有趨緩現在最新的數據在10月1號那是\n\n00:56.073 --> 01:10.312\n最新的是8505是8505那相比於前一期9月16號的時候那是增加1000多那9月16號當天因為我們一個月會公布兩次兩個禮拜公布一次那\n\n01:10.792 --> 01:38.093\n9月16號當時公布的那一次其實增加大概2400多那到10月1號這次的公布它的增加是大概1100所以確實增加的數字有比9月16號來的低可是還是增加所以我們還是用權力戒備的態度我們不會鬆懈我們也不會輕忽但我們也一直在監測這個數據但確實數據有的時候它會有一些它的上下可是我們可能還要看長期的趨勢\n\n01:40.636 --> 02:03.795\n謝謝部長的努力剛剛也講說確實有成長可是還是比前一個時間點有減緩可面對關稅的一個微確定性的話預期申請減班休息的數量可能會越來越多所以根據部內的資料目前強化版的雇用安定措施所補助的九大產業就業保險投保人數大概有\n\n02:05.575 --> 02:25.060\n105萬人那他們是目前美國關稅下最可能受到衝擊的潛在勞工當然不是全部都會受到影響可是還是要看關稅的談判的進度跟結果而定所以現在的強化版預計可以接住多少的勞工勞動部又能夠提供多少的量呢\n\n02:25.880 --> 02:43.797\n我跟文說明這邊講到的一百零五萬絕對不是這一百零五萬都會受到影響是我知道因為有些看到一百零萬但絕對不是一百零萬都受到影響那其實現在基本上我們並沒有什麼量能上的限制也就是說只要\n\n02:44.997 --> 03:07.826\n有減班休息的狀況然後企業通報然後勞工朋友來跟我們申請甚至我剛剛我們講到如果有這個勞工朋友來說他們企業沒有通報其實我們也可以把它放入到這個我們的名單裡面那這是剛才陳委員剛才有講到的部分我們會直接把它放到名單裡面那只要放到名單裡面他就可以來跟我們申請強化版的公安訂措施\n\n03:08.086 --> 03:31.929\n可是部長強化版的僱用安定措施基金來源是救安基金所以如果編入因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案當中如果這筆特別預算假設沒有通過的話那已經申請減班休息的通報個案的薪資貼補會不會受到影響那勞動部要如何因應跟委員說明\n\n03:33.050 --> 03:51.812\n強化版公安訂措施的經費來源是來自救保跟特別預算兩個都有可是如果假設我剛剛前面問你說那到底可以接住多少你說都不會都沒有量可是經費沒有考量所以我們現在現在大院也在九樓正在審查這個\n\n03:53.133 --> 04:13.742\n特別預算我們當然希望爭取我們這一次行政院讓我們編列150億的特別預算能夠順利的通過我想這個因為這個錢真的都是來支持勞工來協助勞工的錢對是很重要的對我們希望真的能夠能夠讓這個順利的然後能夠三讀然後讓勞工朋友有一個更大的支持\n\n04:16.037 --> 04:27.601\n在這些受到影響申請減班休息的勞工裡邊包括了中高齡的就業者根據勞動部的資料中高齡就業者就45歲以上在製造業中佔全體的42.22%\n\n04:30.402 --> 04:44.768\n製造業事實上是關稅的重災區一旦企業實施減班休息也就是他們往往會被列為優先的休息名單我們好不容易通過中高齡及高齡者就業促進法希望讓中高齡成為勞動力來源的新選項\n\n04:48.490 --> 05:04.927\n以解決我們少子化的問題可是他們可能都是而且他們最主要是他們可能都是每一個家庭經濟支柱而且中高齡可能事實上是這時候是負擔最大的孩子可能在念私立大學然後呢家裡的支出如果他還有房貸的話這些都會是一個問題\n\n05:06.008 --> 05:31.014\n那他需要撫養孩子也可能需要撫養長輩再加上年紀的因素職場本來就很不友善的話如果再因為減班的休息減少收入那就會沒辦法支撐他平常所的一些開銷所以想問部長說這些申請減班休息的勞工當中有多少的中高齡是不是你能夠很充分的去掌握到這個比例\n\n05:32.499 --> 05:49.647\n我想其實因為如果通報的勞工當然是可以講我們當然是可以去進一步去去確認大家有多少比例是中高齡但是就是剛剛委員講其實講的沒有錯其實我們在這一次相關的移民關稅跟勞工的這個就業措施裡面其實我們特別關注中高齡的問題\n\n05:50.908 --> 06:05.948\n所以其實在我們10月發布了一個計畫叫做勞工就業通在這個勞工就業通計畫裡面我們也特別把幾個服務整合進來其中一個很重要的就是職務在設計因為如果我們要協助中高齡的勞工失業的話要轉業\n\n06:07.731 --> 06:33.712\n轉業的時候他們會特別需要比方像植物在設計這樣子的服務來讓他能夠更適應可能一個新的就業環境所以我們特別把像這樣給整合進來那另外其實我們也考慮到這所以我們其實這段時間一些辦訓所以我們也請發安署在辦訓訓練的過程裡面特別針對希望針對多一些是針對中高齡的勞工他們可能現在所需要的一些技能的訓練來去做課程的設計\n\n06:35.353 --> 06:52.095\n我們這都是特別思考到說那怎麼樣更多顧及到中高齡勞工的狀況我覺得真的要注意因為我去年在質詢的時候針對勞動議題就已經講過說很多55歲以上就被優退表面上叫優退實際上就是某種程度上資遣\n\n06:52.615 --> 07:19.829\n對他們很多時候事實上是家庭資助者的話通常不利條件那接下來這個關稅的狀況又是比較多時候事實上製造業的又比較多是中高齡最大衝擊又在中高齡所以我們很擔心所以我也希望勞動部可以去做這樣的一個調查所以也要確定所謂的減班休息是不是真正的雙方合意還是事實上是資方強迫的我覺得\n\n07:20.069 --> 07:27.140\n如果是強迫的有人來檢舉就是說沒有經過勞工同意的話那這其實就是違反勞基法22條但這是我們會直接開罰的\n\n07:29.156 --> 07:56.261\n可是有沒有就說這種也很怕的事實上是通常為什麼過去我們的受僱方會比較不敢去做申訴有時候是被點名做記號的所以對他們來講也是有一些壓力所以我是建議說是不是建立我們的減班休息的通報的年齡的分布統計以外然後能夠掌握到我們中高齡的勞工的一個整個通報數量還有能夠定期去做調查\n\n07:56.881 --> 08:25.486\n來掌握我們的減班休息的落實的一些狀況第三個事實上還是要強化中高齡就業者的主動關懷這個也是我去年一直再三提醒說55歲以上真的我們去了解他們所被優退真的事實上是優退嗎還是事實上是被另外一種支遣的方式只是為了減少因為畢竟如果到的小小主管的時候薪水比較高的話把他優退他再請一個薪水比較低的我覺得都很不利於我們的中高齡的人\n\n08:26.346 --> 08:46.192\n那再來就是想問是說整個面對職災的勞工政府到底能做什麼因為目前勞工職業災害保險跟保護法裡面在111年的5月1號正式施行之後勞動部在持續推動這個所謂的FARP\n\n08:48.653 --> 09:00.977\n那跟地方政府來配合關懷勞工那到底這個主動關懷到底是什麼尤其事實上從你們的調查裡面也就是說你們職業災害的失能勞工就業關懷調查就發現說他們平均緩肥職場要12.2個月\n\n09:06.118 --> 09:28.104\n甚至復工的實際化的協商植栽的人力都是曠日廢時所以我們想問這110年的調查有它的意義在才會知道有12.2個月可是110年調查之後就不再調查所以想問說關懷調查有沒有要再啟動才能夠了解你的主動關懷到底有沒有辦法落實而且這種關懷到底能不能讓他們\n\n09:30.024 --> 09:44.039\n能夠是得到因為有數據才能夠有後邊的對應措施所以想問說你這個職業災害失能的勞工就業關懷調查要持續調查嗎因為我們要知道他到底有沒有能夠發揮效用\n\n09:45.553 --> 10:11.887\n這個跟穆委員說明其實對於職財勞工的關懷我想這件事情是我們一定會持續做的甚至我們包括職安署跟地方的勞政單位其實我們都有相關專業的人力持續在做這個它是用一個個案管理的方式在處理所以它可能不是不一定是一次性的調查對這個部分來說是持續性要做的工作那至於重返職場的時間因為確實不同的勞工他的狀況不一樣\n\n10:14.608 --> 10:36.584\n有些如果他比較嚴重的他就需要比較久一點的時間有的時候甚至我們也看到一些案例是勞工明明他覺得他還沒有好他還需要持續的在做這個復原的休養的狀況但是資方一直覺得你就趕快上工你趕快上工然後這裡面產生的衝突我們也看到一些案例是這種狀況所以確實這個能夠重返職場的時間有\n\n10:41.201 --> 11:09.017\n所以部長相對的關懷協助會落差蠻大的你這一個有一個段落叫做關懷協助所以你的主動關懷協助就很重要所以我覺得政府應該發揮主動的服務的精神一定是主動因為我們甚至是用個案管理的方式來做這個關懷那也包括統整相關的資源能夠讓職災勞工可以了解他可以有什麼資源包括就醫的資源保險的資源或者是哪些部分他其實可以來做使用就是用個案管理的方式為什麼我會去提就用這個案例為此案為例就是說\n\n11:10.297 --> 11:30.324\n職災的勞工家屬在一審判定的時候不是職災當初你們勞動部也是判定他不是職災可是二審的時候判定卻又是職災那不管最後三審結果為何這個據案發時間已經三千天了請問部長這之間的所有損失都可以申請嗎如果不行的話有沒有其他方式可以幫助職災家屬呢\n\n11:31.644 --> 11:41.134\n那而且旨在勞工個案主動服務再次指示有沒有主動介入因為剛剛講的關懷協助是這樣蠻重要的所以過去有沒有介入如何質疑\n\n11:43.294 --> 12:06.782\n還是要跟委員說其實我們的PASS都希望能夠都是主動協助但如果有做的更好的空間那我們也願意來做一些檢討但的確我們PASS的同仁是很辛苦但是有更好的空間我們都願意來檢討那這個案子我們非常非常關注確實他一審和二審的判決不一樣所以我們也跟當時我們也跟這些相關的包括他的協助的團體\n\n12:08.863 --> 12:25.572\n來跟他們說如果需要做一些重新的檢視我們也很願意來做重新的檢視來做相關的認定部長可能未來真的要更進一步的是如果真的個案能夠及早去介入的話那事實幫助大概就不會要讓他走到司法還要透過\n\n12:26.452 --> 12:38.368\n我覺得一審二審然後讓他等待三千天最後得到的結果呢假設是最後第三審是實在認定的話真的這些損失到底要跟誰要這個三千天確實蠻長的所以這也是這個勞工很辛苦的地方\n\n12:42.032 --> 13:07.181\n但是的確在三年前災保法上路以後現在整體的機制是有更完備那包括PASS他要協助掌握跟整合的一些服務也更完備那我們但我們最近其實也在做相關的檢討能夠給職債勞工什麼更多的制度性的支持那我們會盡快來把給職債勞工更制度性的支持我們會盡快的來這個政策研擬到一個階段我們就會來公佈\n\n13:07.621 --> 13:32.313\n所以最後我的建議就是請盤點FAP專業服務人員的人數進行適當的分配還有檢討現行的給付機制及時保障我們的勞權還有縮短真的行政程序有時候聽說派案通報之後派案還要三個月所以讓他們可以加速重返職場如果他們能夠身體狀況OK的話能夠重返職場的話應該加速我們都願意來檢討謝謝副長謝謝\n\n13:37.687 --> 13:38.411\n謝謝林月琴委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.271,"end":28.633,"text":"主席麻煩我們的勞動部部長有請洪部長部長早美國關稅雖然還在談判階段可是關稅政策進口的產品的調整還有台幣的匯率的波動還是讓台灣以出國為主出口的為主的製造業受到衝擊我相信部長應該也知道"},{"start":29.614,"end":52.879,"text":"所以今年3月8月勞動部的確推出了一個僱用安定措施跟強化版讓減班休息的勞工可以申請到我們的差額補貼所以我首先我想問部長目前為止通報減班休息的數量大概有多少增長的幅度是不是有趨緩現在最新的數據在10月1號那是"},{"start":56.073,"end":70.312,"text":"最新的是8505是8505那相比於前一期9月16號的時候那是增加1000多那9月16號當天因為我們一個月會公布兩次兩個禮拜公布一次那"},{"start":70.792,"end":98.093,"text":"9月16號當時公布的那一次其實增加大概2400多那到10月1號這次的公布它的增加是大概1100所以確實增加的數字有比9月16號來的低可是還是增加所以我們還是用權力戒備的態度我們不會鬆懈我們也不會輕忽但我們也一直在監測這個數據但確實數據有的時候它會有一些它的上下可是我們可能還要看長期的趨勢"},{"start":100.636,"end":123.795,"text":"謝謝部長的努力剛剛也講說確實有成長可是還是比前一個時間點有減緩可面對關稅的一個微確定性的話預期申請減班休息的數量可能會越來越多所以根據部內的資料目前強化版的雇用安定措施所補助的九大產業就業保險投保人數大概有"},{"start":125.575,"end":145.06,"text":"105萬人那他們是目前美國關稅下最可能受到衝擊的潛在勞工當然不是全部都會受到影響可是還是要看關稅的談判的進度跟結果而定所以現在的強化版預計可以接住多少的勞工勞動部又能夠提供多少的量呢"},{"start":145.88,"end":163.797,"text":"我跟文說明這邊講到的一百零五萬絕對不是這一百零五萬都會受到影響是我知道因為有些看到一百零萬但絕對不是一百零萬都受到影響那其實現在基本上我們並沒有什麼量能上的限制也就是說只要"},{"start":164.997,"end":187.826,"text":"有減班休息的狀況然後企業通報然後勞工朋友來跟我們申請甚至我剛剛我們講到如果有這個勞工朋友來說他們企業沒有通報其實我們也可以把它放入到這個我們的名單裡面那這是剛才陳委員剛才有講到的部分我們會直接把它放到名單裡面那只要放到名單裡面他就可以來跟我們申請強化版的公安訂措施"},{"start":188.086,"end":211.929,"text":"可是部長強化版的僱用安定措施基金來源是救安基金所以如果編入因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案當中如果這筆特別預算假設沒有通過的話那已經申請減班休息的通報個案的薪資貼補會不會受到影響那勞動部要如何因應跟委員說明"},{"start":213.05,"end":231.812,"text":"強化版公安訂措施的經費來源是來自救保跟特別預算兩個都有可是如果假設我剛剛前面問你說那到底可以接住多少你說都不會都沒有量可是經費沒有考量所以我們現在現在大院也在九樓正在審查這個"},{"start":233.133,"end":253.742,"text":"特別預算我們當然希望爭取我們這一次行政院讓我們編列150億的特別預算能夠順利的通過我想這個因為這個錢真的都是來支持勞工來協助勞工的錢對是很重要的對我們希望真的能夠能夠讓這個順利的然後能夠三讀然後讓勞工朋友有一個更大的支持"},{"start":256.037,"end":267.601,"text":"在這些受到影響申請減班休息的勞工裡邊包括了中高齡的就業者根據勞動部的資料中高齡就業者就45歲以上在製造業中佔全體的42.22%"},{"start":270.402,"end":284.768,"text":"製造業事實上是關稅的重災區一旦企業實施減班休息也就是他們往往會被列為優先的休息名單我們好不容易通過中高齡及高齡者就業促進法希望讓中高齡成為勞動力來源的新選項"},{"start":288.49,"end":304.927,"text":"以解決我們少子化的問題可是他們可能都是而且他們最主要是他們可能都是每一個家庭經濟支柱而且中高齡可能事實上是這時候是負擔最大的孩子可能在念私立大學然後呢家裡的支出如果他還有房貸的話這些都會是一個問題"},{"start":306.008,"end":331.014,"text":"那他需要撫養孩子也可能需要撫養長輩再加上年紀的因素職場本來就很不友善的話如果再因為減班的休息減少收入那就會沒辦法支撐他平常所的一些開銷所以想問部長說這些申請減班休息的勞工當中有多少的中高齡是不是你能夠很充分的去掌握到這個比例"},{"start":332.499,"end":349.647,"text":"我想其實因為如果通報的勞工當然是可以講我們當然是可以去進一步去去確認大家有多少比例是中高齡但是就是剛剛委員講其實講的沒有錯其實我們在這一次相關的移民關稅跟勞工的這個就業措施裡面其實我們特別關注中高齡的問題"},{"start":350.908,"end":365.948,"text":"所以其實在我們10月發布了一個計畫叫做勞工就業通在這個勞工就業通計畫裡面我們也特別把幾個服務整合進來其中一個很重要的就是職務在設計因為如果我們要協助中高齡的勞工失業的話要轉業"},{"start":367.731,"end":393.712,"text":"轉業的時候他們會特別需要比方像植物在設計這樣子的服務來讓他能夠更適應可能一個新的就業環境所以我們特別把像這樣給整合進來那另外其實我們也考慮到這所以我們其實這段時間一些辦訓所以我們也請發安署在辦訓訓練的過程裡面特別針對希望針對多一些是針對中高齡的勞工他們可能現在所需要的一些技能的訓練來去做課程的設計"},{"start":395.353,"end":412.095,"text":"我們這都是特別思考到說那怎麼樣更多顧及到中高齡勞工的狀況我覺得真的要注意因為我去年在質詢的時候針對勞動議題就已經講過說很多55歲以上就被優退表面上叫優退 實際上就是某種程度上資遣"},{"start":412.615,"end":439.829,"text":"對他們很多時候事實上是家庭資助者的話通常不利條件那接下來這個關稅的狀況又是比較多時候事實上製造業的又比較多是中高齡最大衝擊又在中高齡所以我們很擔心所以我也希望勞動部可以去做這樣的一個調查所以也要確定所謂的減班休息是不是真正的雙方合意還是事實上是資方強迫的我覺得"},{"start":440.069,"end":447.14,"text":"如果是強迫的有人來檢舉就是說沒有經過勞工同意的話那這其實就是違反勞基法22條但這是我們會直接開罰的"},{"start":449.156,"end":476.261,"text":"可是有沒有就說這種也很怕的事實上是通常為什麼過去我們的受僱方會比較不敢去做申訴有時候是被點名做記號的所以對他們來講也是有一些壓力所以我是建議說是不是建立我們的減班休息的通報的年齡的分布統計以外然後能夠掌握到我們中高齡的勞工的一個整個通報數量還有能夠定期去做調查"},{"start":476.881,"end":505.486,"text":"來掌握我們的減班休息的落實的一些狀況第三個事實上還是要強化中高齡就業者的主動關懷這個也是我去年一直再三提醒說55歲以上真的我們去了解他們所被優退真的事實上是優退嗎還是事實上是被另外一種支遣的方式只是為了減少因為畢竟如果到的小小主管的時候薪水比較高的話把他優退他再請一個薪水比較低的我覺得都很不利於我們的中高齡的人"},{"start":506.346,"end":526.192,"text":"那再來就是想問是說整個面對職災的勞工政府到底能做什麼因為目前勞工職業災害保險跟保護法裡面在111年的5月1號正式施行之後勞動部在持續推動這個所謂的FARP"},{"start":528.653,"end":540.977,"text":"那跟地方政府來配合關懷勞工那到底這個主動關懷到底是什麼尤其事實上從你們的調查裡面也就是說你們職業災害的失能勞工就業關懷調查就發現說他們平均緩肥職場要12.2個月"},{"start":546.118,"end":568.104,"text":"甚至復工的實際化的協商 植栽的人力都是曠日廢時所以我們想問這110年的調查有它的意義在才會知道有12.2個月可是110年調查之後就不再調查所以想問說關懷調查有沒有要再啟動才能夠了解你的主動關懷到底有沒有辦法落實而且這種關懷到底能不能讓他們"},{"start":570.024,"end":584.039,"text":"能夠是得到因為有數據才能夠有後邊的對應措施所以想問說你這個職業災害失能的勞工就業關懷調查要持續調查嗎因為我們要知道他到底有沒有能夠發揮效用"},{"start":585.553,"end":611.887,"text":"這個跟穆委員說明其實對於職財勞工的關懷我想這件事情是我們一定會持續做的甚至我們包括職安署跟地方的勞政單位其實我們都有相關專業的人力持續在做這個它是用一個個案管理的方式在處理所以它可能不是不一定是一次性的調查對這個部分來說是持續性要做的工作那至於重返職場的時間因為確實不同的勞工他的狀況不一樣"},{"start":614.608,"end":636.584,"text":"有些如果他比較嚴重的他就需要比較久一點的時間有的時候甚至我們也看到一些案例是勞工明明他覺得他還沒有好他還需要持續的在做這個復原的休養的狀況但是資方一直覺得你就趕快上工你趕快上工然後這裡面產生的衝突我們也看到一些案例是這種狀況所以確實這個能夠重返職場的時間有"},{"start":641.201,"end":669.017,"text":"所以部長相對的關懷協助會落差蠻大的你這一個有一個段落叫做關懷協助所以你的主動關懷協助就很重要所以我覺得政府應該發揮主動的服務的精神一定是主動因為我們甚至是用個案管理的方式來做這個關懷那也包括統整相關的資源能夠讓職災勞工可以了解他可以有什麼資源包括就醫的資源 保險的資源或者是哪些部分他其實可以來做使用就是用個案管理的方式為什麼我會去提就用這個案例為此案為例就是說"},{"start":670.297,"end":690.324,"text":"職災的勞工家屬在一審判定的時候不是職災當初你們勞動部也是判定他不是職災可是二審的時候判定卻又是職災那不管最後三審結果為何這個據案發時間已經三千天了請問部長這之間的所有損失都可以申請嗎如果不行的話有沒有其他方式可以幫助職災家屬呢"},{"start":691.644,"end":701.134,"text":"那而且旨在勞工個案主動服務再次指示有沒有主動介入因為剛剛講的關懷協助是這樣蠻重要的所以過去有沒有介入如何質疑"},{"start":703.294,"end":726.782,"text":"還是要跟委員說其實我們的PASS都希望能夠都是主動協助但如果有做的更好的空間那我們也願意來做一些檢討但的確我們PASS的同仁是很辛苦但是有更好的空間我們都願意來檢討那這個案子我們非常非常關注確實他一審和二審的判決不一樣所以我們也跟當時我們也跟這些相關的包括他的協助的團體"},{"start":728.863,"end":745.572,"text":"來跟他們說如果需要做一些重新的檢視我們也很願意來做重新的檢視來做相關的認定部長可能未來真的要更進一步的是如果真的個案能夠及早去介入的話那事實幫助大概就不會要讓他走到司法還要透過"},{"start":746.452,"end":758.368,"text":"我覺得一審二審然後讓他等待三千天最後得到的結果呢假設是最後第三審是實在認定的話真的這些損失到底要跟誰要這個三千天確實蠻長的所以這也是這個勞工很辛苦的地方"},{"start":762.032,"end":787.181,"text":"但是的確在三年前災保法上路以後現在整體的機制是有更完備那包括PASS他要協助掌握跟整合的一些服務也更完備那我們但我們最近其實也在做相關的檢討能夠給職債勞工什麼更多的制度性的支持那我們會盡快來把給職債勞工更制度性的支持我們會盡快的來這個政策研擬到一個階段我們就會來公佈"},{"start":787.621,"end":812.313,"text":"所以最後我的建議就是請盤點FAP專業服務人員的人數進行適當的分配還有檢討現行的給付機制及時保障我們的勞權還有縮短真的行政程序有時候聽說派案通報之後派案還要三個月所以讓他們可以加速重返職場如果他們能夠身體狀況OK的話能夠重返職場的話應該加速我們都願意來檢討謝謝副長 謝謝"},{"start":817.687,"end":818.411,"text":"謝謝林月琴委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":89,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時20分）主席，麻煩請勞動部部長。"],["主席：有請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：林委員好。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。美國關稅雖然還在談判階段，可是關稅政策、進口產品的調整，還有臺幣匯率的波動，還是讓臺灣以出口為主的製造業受到衝擊，我相信部長應該也知道，今年3月、8月勞動部的確也推出了強化版僱用安定措施，讓減班休息的勞工可以申請到差額補貼，所以首先我想問部長，目前為止通報減班休息的數量大概有多少，增長的幅度是不是有趨緩？"],["洪部長申翰：現在最新的數據統計到10月1號是8,505，相比前一期9月16號的時候是增加一千多，因為我們一個月會公布兩次，每兩個禮拜公布一次。9月16號當時公布的那一次其實大概增加兩千四百多，到10月1號這次公布的大概增加1,100……"],["林委員月琴：所以有趨緩的……"],["洪部長申翰：增加的數字確實有比9月16號來得低，可是還是有增加，所以我們還是用全力戒備的態度，我們不會鬆懈，也不會輕忽，我們也一直在監測這個數據，數據有時候會有上下的情況，我們可能還要看長期的趨勢。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝部長的努力。剛才講說確實有成長，可是還是比前一個時間點減緩。面對關稅不確定性，預期申請減班休息的數量可能會越來越多，根據部內的資料，目前強化版僱用安定措施所補助的9大產業就業保險投保人數大概有105萬人，他們是目前在美國關稅下最可能受到衝擊的潛在勞工，當然不是全部都會受到影響，還是要看關稅談判的進度跟結果而定，所以強化版預計可以接住多少勞工？勞動部又能夠提供多少量能？"],["洪部長申翰：我跟委員說明，這邊講到的105萬，絕對不是這105萬都會受到影響。"],["林委員月琴：是，我知道。"],["洪部長申翰：因為有些人看到105萬……但是絕對不是105萬都會受到影響，現在基本上我們並沒有什麼量能上的限制，也就是說，只要有減班休息的狀況，企業通報然後勞工朋友來跟我們申請，甚至我剛剛有講到，如果有勞工朋友來說他的企業沒有通報，我們也可以把他放入到我們的名單裡面，這是陳委員剛才有講到的部分，我們會直接把他放名單裡面，只要放到名單裡面，他就可以來跟我們申請強化版的僱用安定措施。"],["林委員月琴：部長，可是強化版的僱用安定措施基金來源是就安基金，如果編入因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案當中，這筆特別預算假設沒有通過的話，那已經申請減班休息的通報個案的薪資貼補會不會受到影響？勞動部要如何因應？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，強化版僱用安定措施的經費來源來自於就保跟特別預算，兩個都有。"],["林委員月琴：我剛才前面問你說到底可以接住多少，你說沒有量能的考量，可是經費也要考量。"],["洪部長申翰：當然，所以現在大院9樓也正在審查這個特別預算，我們當然希望爭取，這次行政院讓我們編列150億的特別預算，能夠順利地通過，因為這個錢真的都是來支持勞工、協助勞工的錢。"],["林委員月琴：對，是很重要的。"],["洪部長申翰：我們希望能夠順利地三讀，讓勞工朋友有個更大的支持。"],["林委員月琴：在這些受到影響而申請減班休息的勞工裡面，包括了中高齡的就業者，根據勞動部的資料，中高齡就業者，也就是45歲以上，在製造業中占全體的42.22%，製造業事實上是關稅的重災區，一旦企業實施減班休息，他們往往會被列為優先休息名單，我們好不容易通過中高齡者及高齡者就業促進法，希望讓中高齡成為勞動力來源的新選項，以解決我們少子化的問題。最主要的是他們可能都是每一個家庭的經濟支柱，而且對中高齡者來說，可能這時候是負擔最大的時候，孩子可能在念私立大學，家裡的支出，如果他還有房貸的話，這些都會是問題，他需要撫養孩子，也可能需要撫養長輩，再加上年紀的因素，職場本來就很不友善的話，如果再因為減班休息而減少收入，就會沒辦法支撐他平常的一些開銷，所以想問部長，這些申請減班休息的勞工當中，有多少的中高齡者？你是不是有很充分地去掌握到這個比例？"],["洪部長申翰：通報的勞工我們當然是可以進一步去確認大概有多少比例是中高齡，剛剛委員講得沒有錯，我們在這一次相關因應關稅跟勞工的就業措施裡面，其實我們特別關注中高齡的問題，所以我們10月發布了一個計畫，叫作勞工就業通，在這個勞工就業通計畫裡面，我們也特別把幾個服務整合進來，其中一個很重要的就是職務再設計，如果我們要協助中高齡勞工失業的話，他們要轉業，轉業的時候，他們會特別需要比方說像職務再設計這樣子的服務，來讓他能夠更適應新的就業環境，所以我們特別把像這樣的服務給整合進來。","另外，我們也考慮到這個因素，我們這段時間有辦一些訓練，所以我們也請發展署在訓練的過程裡面，特別多針對中高齡的勞工他們可能現在需要的一些技能訓練，來去做課程的設計，我們這都是特別思考到怎麼樣能更顧及到中高齡勞工的狀況。"],["林委員月琴：對，我覺得真的要注意，因為我去年在質詢的時候，針對勞動議題就已經講過說很多55歲以上的人被優退，表面上叫優退，事實上就是某種程度上的資遣，如果他們是家庭支柱者的話，條件通常很不利。接下來就關稅的狀況而言，製造業中比較多是中高齡，最大衝擊又在中高齡，我們很擔心，我也希望勞動部可以去做調查，也要確定減班休息是不是真正的雙方合意，還是資方強迫的？我覺得……"],["洪部長申翰：如果是強迫的，有人來檢舉說沒有經過勞工同意的話，這其實就是違反勞基法第二十二條，我們會直接開罰的。"],["林委員月琴：為什麼過去通常受僱方會比較不敢去申訴？有時候是怕被點名、做記號，所以對他們來講，也是有一些壓力，我是建議是不是建立減班休息的通報年齡分布統計以外，能夠掌握到中高齡的勞工通報數量，還有能夠定期去調查，來掌握我們減班休息落實的狀況。","第三個，還是要強化中高齡就業者的主動關懷，這也是我去年再三提醒針對55歲以上的勞工，你們有沒有去了解他們被優退，事實上真的是優退嗎？還是事實上是另外一種資遣的方式？因為如果當到了小主管的時候，薪水比較高的話，若把他優退，再請一個薪水比較低的，我覺得這都很不利於中高齡的人。","再來想問面對職災的勞工，政府到底能做什麼？因為目前勞工職業災害保險及保護法裡面，在111年5月1號正式施行之後，勞動部持續推動FARP，跟地方政府來配合關懷勞工，這個主動關懷到底是什麼？尤其從你們職業災害的失能勞工就業關懷調查就發現說，他們平均返回職場要12.2個月，甚至復工計畫的協商、職災的認定都是曠日費時。110年的調查有它的意義在，才會知道返回職場要12.2個月，可是110年調查之後就不再調查，所以想問說關懷調查有沒有要再啟動？這樣才能夠了解你的主動關懷到底有沒有辦法落實，這種關懷到底能不能讓他們得到幫助？因為有數據才能有後面的對應措施，所以想問職業災害失能的勞工就業關懷調查要持續調查嗎？因為我要知道它到底有沒有發揮效用。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，對於職災勞工的關懷，我想這件事情我們一定會持續做的，甚至包括職安署跟地方的勞政單位，其實我們都有相關專業的人力持續在做，這是用個案管理的方式在處理，所以它可能不一定是一次性的調查，這部分是持續性要做的工作。","至於重返職場的時間，因為確實不同的勞工，他的狀況不一樣，有些如果比較嚴重的，他就需要比較久一點的時間，有的時候甚至我們也看到一些案例，勞工明明他覺得還沒有好，他還需要復原、休養，但是資方一直覺得你就趕快上工，這裡面產生的衝突，我們也看到一些案例是這種狀況，所以確實能夠重返職場的時間會落差蠻大的。"],["林委員月琴：部長，這裡有一個段落叫關懷協助，所以你的主動關懷協助就很重要，所以我覺得政府應該發揮主動服務的精神。"],["洪部長申翰：一定是主動，我們甚至是用個案管理的方式來做關懷，也包括統整相關的資源，讓職災勞工可以了解他可以有什麼資源，包括就醫的資源、保險的資源，或者是哪些部分他其實可以來做使用，這是用個案管理的方式。"],["林委員月琴：部長，我為什麼會去提？就用此案為例，職災的勞工家屬在一審判定的時候不是職災，當初你們勞動部也是判定它不是職災，可是二審的時候判定卻又是職災，不管最後三審結果為何，這距案發時間已經3,000天了。請問部長，這之間的所有損失都可以申請嗎？如果不行的話，有沒有其他方式可以幫助職災家屬呢？而且職災勞工個案主動服務，在此時有沒有主動介入？因為剛剛講的關懷協助，事實上蠻重要的，所以過去有沒有介入，如何指引？"],["洪部長申翰：還是要跟委員報告，其實我們的PAS都希望能夠處在主動協助，但如果有做得更好的空間，我們也願意來做一些檢討，但的確我們PAS的同仁是很辛苦，但是有更好的空間，我們都願意來檢討。針對這個案子，我們非常非常關注，確實一審跟二審的判決不一樣，所以我們也跟這些相關的包括他的協助的團體來跟他們說，如果需要做一些重新的檢視，我們也很願意來做重新的檢視並做相關的認定。"],["林委員月琴：部長，可能未來真的要更進一步的是，如果真的個案能夠及早去介入的話，事實的幫助大概就不會要讓他走到司法，還要透過一審、二審，讓他等待3,000天，最後得到的結果，假設最後第三審是職災認定的話，這些損失到底要跟誰要？"],["洪部長申翰：這個3,000天確實蠻長的……"],["林委員月琴：對，快將近10年的時間。"],["洪部長申翰：所以這也是勞工很辛苦的地方，但是的確在3年前災保法上路以後，現在整體的機制是有更完備，包括PAS要協助掌握跟整合的一些服務也更完備，但我們最近其實也在做相關的檢討，能夠給職災勞工什麼更多制度性的支持，我們會儘快給職災勞工更多制度性的支持，我們會儘快將政策研擬到一個階段後就會公布。"],["林委員月琴：好。所以最後我的建議就是，請盤點FAP專業服務人員的人數、進行適當的分配，還要檢討現行的給付機制並即時保障我們的勞權，還有縮短行政程序，有時候聽說通報之後，派案還要3個月，所以讓他們可以加速重返職場，如果他們身體狀況OK並能夠重返職場的話，應該加速。"],["洪部長申翰：這我們都願意來檢討。"],["林委員月琴：謝謝部長。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林月琴委員發言。","接下來請邱鎮軍委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-2","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王正旭","鍾佳濱","林淑芬","黃國昌","陳瑩","葉元之","黃秀芳","陳菁徽","楊曜","劉建國","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","王育敏","蘇清泉","盧縣一"],"page_start":361,"meetingDate":["2025-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長針對「因關稅造成我國市場就業及勞動環境衝擊之影響及因應對策」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00006"}}}