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\"跟委員說明我們當然在公務預算裡面明年的公務預算裡面其實有撥補1200億那當然為什麼還在100億其實我們政府其實對於勞保勞保的水位的支持是我們持續性的不斷的在檢視所以當然我們現在在稅計剩餘下我們認為有一點空間可以再多給勞工的勞保多一點安定跟穩定但是我覺得那你在編預算的時候你1200億不然你就編1300嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 492.955, \"end\": 493.115, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 493.115, \"end\": 493.475, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 493.475, \"end\": 493.775, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 493.775, \"end\": 494.076, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 494.076, \"end\": 494.176, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 494.176, \"end\": 494.876, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 494.876, \"end\": 495.156, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 495.156, \"end\": 495.436, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 495.436, \"end\": 495.656, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"明\", 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\"end\": 513.62, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 513.62, \"end\": 513.8, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 513.8, \"end\": 514.14, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"穩\"}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 514.14, \"end\": 514.3, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 514.3, \"end\": 514.46, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 514.46, \"end\": 514.78, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 514.78, \"end\": 514.94, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 514.94, \"end\": 515.3, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 515.3, \"end\": 515.46, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 515.46, \"end\": 515.6, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 515.6, \"end\": 516.16, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 516.16, \"end\": 516.28, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 516.28, \"end\": 516.54, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 516.54, \"end\": 516.64, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 516.64, \"end\": 516.78, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 516.78, \"end\": 516.9, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 516.9, \"end\": 517.041, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 517.041, \"end\": 517.201, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 517.201, \"end\": 517.341, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 517.341, \"end\": 517.361, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 519.341, \"end\": 524.193, \"text\": \"你怎麼會在這邊用這個國安任性特別預算裡面來這個讓我們覺得這有點趁火打劫\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 519.341, \"end\": 519.441, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 519.441, \"end\": 519.822, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 519.822, \"end\": 520.504, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 520.504, \"end\": 522.188, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 522.188, \"end\": 522.348, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 522.348, \"end\": 522.549, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 522.549, \"end\": 522.709, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 522.709, \"end\": 522.849, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 522.849, \"end\": 523.311, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 523.311, \"end\": 523.551, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 523.551, \"end\": 523.671, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 523.671, \"end\": 523.711, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 523.711, \"end\": 523.932, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 523.932, \"end\": 523.952, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"趁\"}, {\"word\": \"火\", \"start\": 523.952, \"end\": 524.152, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 524.152, \"end\": 524.173, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"劫\", \"start\": 524.173, \"end\": 524.193, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 529.87, \"end\": 556.547, \"text\": \"委員 這都是 兩個都不同的事情委員 這都是支持勞工的經費給勞工的經費絕對不是趁火打錢 這是兩件事喔一個是勞退喔 勞保基金喔那一個是因應國際情勢 這不太一樣嘛委員 因應國際情勢是151那勞保的撥補是100億這兩件事情不是同一個事情 對啊那我們當然這次 那好 那我簡單問你\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 529.87, \"end\": 530.751, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 530.751, \"end\": 530.891, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 530.891, \"end\": 531.871, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 531.871, \"end\": 532.492, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 532.492, \"end\": 532.592, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 532.592, \"end\": 532.752, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 532.752, \"end\": 532.872, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 532.872, \"end\": 533.012, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 533.012, \"end\": 533.132, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 533.132, \"end\": 533.893, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 533.893, \"end\": 534.033, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 534.033, \"end\": 534.193, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"支\", \"start\": 534.193, \"end\": 534.373, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"持\", \"start\": 534.373, \"end\": 534.713, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 534.713, \"end\": 534.913, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 534.913, \"end\": 536.294, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, 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委員還是要說這是兩件事情我們在因應國際情勢是150億那另外100億是勞保的撥補那之前包括也有用特別預算來去做勞保撥補這是我們的財政狀況跟稅劑剩餘\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 557.688, \"end\": 558.989, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 558.989, \"end\": 559.65, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 559.65, \"end\": 559.79, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 559.79, \"end\": 559.91, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 559.91, \"end\": 560.47, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 560.47, \"end\": 560.77, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 560.77, \"end\": 561.011, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 561.011, \"end\": 561.411, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"減\"}, {\"word\": \"半\", \"start\": 561.411, \"end\": 561.571, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"倍\", \"start\": 561.571, \"end\": 561.711, 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\"start\": 686.918, \"end\": 687.038, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 687.038, \"end\": 687.118, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 687.118, \"end\": 687.378, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 687.378, \"end\": 687.538, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 687.538, \"end\": 687.698, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 687.698, \"end\": 687.798, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 687.798, \"end\": 687.859, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 687.859, \"end\": 687.939, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 687.939, \"end\": 688.019, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 688.019, \"end\": 688.099, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"愛\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"咧\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 688.099, \"end\": 688.199, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 688.199, \"end\": 688.299, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 688.299, \"end\": 688.739, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 688.739, \"end\": 688.819, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 688.819, \"end\": 688.92, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 688.92, \"end\": 689.14, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 689.14, \"end\": 689.32, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 689.32, \"end\": 690.201, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 690.201, \"end\": 690.341, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 690.341, \"end\": 690.501, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 690.501, \"end\": 690.821, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"邱\", \"start\": 690.821, \"end\": 691.142, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"振\", \"start\": 691.142, \"end\": 693.624, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"軍\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 693.624, \"end\": 693.724, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"言\", \"start\": 693.724, \"end\": 693.744, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,706 --> 00:00:03,875\n我們有請我們洪部長請洪部長\n\n2\n00:00:08,493 --> 00:00:35,045\n邱委員早部長好部長我請問勞動部在我們10月1日的時候公布最新的這個減班休息統計那全國共有398家企業8505名勞工比9月中旬再增加了65家1171人可是我看到你們報告裡面在寫較前期平緩一些我不知道我想請教一下就是我們這平緩的意思是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:36,005 --> 00:01:02,304\n因為前一期9月16號的時候那一天那一次的公佈是增加2471人那在10月1號的時候人數是增加1171人那我們這個因為是慢慢往上漲嗎人數還是增加的但是增加的數字比前一次公佈來的少一些可是他的整個數字看起來是那一個月增加了3000多人\n\n4\n00:01:03,044 --> 00:01:11,262\n对所以他比上一个月来讲所以我的意思说我们跟前一期比较的话的确他增加的人数你看这个图是你们画的嘛\n\n5\n00:01:12,014 --> 00:01:35,155\n對不對你看那個線這個怎麼會覺得會平緩呢所以我覺得很奇怪啊那個秋遠如果可以仔細看我們那個寫的句子如果前一張投影片你是指前一次嘛對不對跟前一期9月16號的發佈來比較到了這個9月底嘛那一次是增加2400那因為這一次增加是1100你看那個線也看起來很陡耶怎麼會平緩走路會跌倒耶\n\n6\n00:01:36,553 --> 00:01:52,964\n我們不會因為這個數字的起伏而放鬆我其實沒有要指責什麼意思啊我只是說有時候用詞啊這有點讓人家覺得說你這個是在粉飾太平沒有我們絕對沒有要粉飾太平所以因為我們看到這個\n\n7\n00:01:53,504 --> 00:02:18,324\n絕對沒有粉飾太平這個已經已經從你這個來看就是從全國無薪加是245家4863人9月底變成398家8505人這個數字一個月呢增加了3600多人那增幅高達75%所以當然我們從4月份來看它的整個是非常明顯的那整個來看它沒有一個月是下降的這個確實說我們應該要多注意一下這個狀況那這個\n\n8\n00:02:23,359 --> 00:02:42,006\n部長你認為這個還會往上漲嗎我覺得這都要從趨勢來看那我覺得我們要有目前您看這樣子我們關稅的影響狀況已經達到高峰了沒有我自己是認為我們其實都要\n\n9\n00:02:43,291 --> 00:03:09,833\n我們都不應該去預設最好的狀況是怎樣一個行政部門的角度來說我們一定是預設如果狀況還會惡化那我們的因應措施能不能夠讓勞工或讓企業得到幫助我們應該都是要從這個角度我也看到了你們在報告裡面寫到從4月9號到10月1號我們勞動力發展署已經仿視了20619家這點我當然給你們肯定只是說那我想請問一下就是說有多少家\n\n10\n00:03:10,774 --> 00:03:15,793\n目前是正在實施減班或休息的又有多少家未來有可能會走向這個無薪\n\n11\n00:03:17,828 --> 00:03:43,402\n有沒有評估過跟委員說明現在實施減半休息總共是398大概快400家那我們的確現在看到在這些實施減半休息加速裡面比較集中在幾個行業那大概幾個我們在報告裡面有提到包括像金屬製品製造那機械設備製造業然後也包括這個其他運輸工具\n\n12\n00:03:44,122 --> 00:04:01,552\n那也包括像這個汽車零組件那這幾個行業是現在看到減慢休息比較集中的行業對所以我們也針對這幾個行業也去做特別的關心也掌握他們行業內現在一些變化的動態那這也要很謝謝我們發展署各地分署的同仁\n\n13\n00:04:02,192 --> 00:04:20,485\n我希望就是說你們在這個過程當中不要只是為了這個達成這個數字而去做這件事情不是說我看了多少家應該是我們期待看到說我們幫多少家企業解決了問題協助到了多少家企業這才是我們仿似的目的嘛對不對\n\n14\n00:04:20,785 --> 00:04:34,659\n跟文說明剛才講我們講到幾個減班休息比較多的行業其實現在我們都有放到我們這個強化版安定措施的行業別裡面也就是現在這些比較多的減班休息的企業其實\n\n15\n00:04:36,435 --> 00:05:00,348\n只要他們有來通報那我們都可以有相關的薪資差額補貼給他們我看到你們在報告裡面講到有76.3293家企業適用這個雇用安定基金的措施那有83.6%大概7106位的勞工可以申請這個薪資差額補貼那我請問一下這個有在領了嗎有有多少人領\n\n16\n00:05:03,490 --> 00:05:20,035\n目前來申請的目前在有申請資格跟我說明目前有申請資格然後有來申請的大概快接近一半那另外一半現在我們因為每個來跟我們通報的我們都會去了解\n\n17\n00:05:20,795 --> 00:05:37,038\n那還有一半是因為他可能還因為我們的規定是要30天後減慢休息30天後才能來有的是30天還沒到那或者是有些還在補件那也有一些企業他是說他們可能想要三個月來申請一次就是所以可能會有延後來申請的狀況\n\n18\n00:05:37,819 --> 00:05:56,034\n好我希望不要說這個措施這個既然做了我們這些企業都沒有得到幫助那我再問一個就是說我發現你們在報告裡面講了有105家不適用這個雇用安定措施的廠商是什麼原因讓他們不適用\n\n19\n00:05:57,435 --> 00:06:20,960\n因為其實我們這個強化版的公安徑措施比較是針對國際的經貿情勢的不確定所以它跟經貿沒有關係的就不受這個因為就不用協助就對了應該是說我們這個強化版公安措施其實是比較是針對關稅或者國際經貿情勢所影響的嘛對不對那的確有一些企業它實時減慢休息的原因它是直接影響還是間接影響這個你們這個怎麼區分呢\n\n20\n00:06:24,902 --> 00:06:45,883\n相關的影響當然我們都是因為他可能他的產業他的工作他只是做人的下游廠商嘛對不對他並沒有直接影響那這樣的適用嗎我們不是用我們不是用上下游來想我們是用行業別來框定那我們現在有公告了九個行業這九個行業當然很大部分是經濟部來跟我們說就是說\n\n21\n00:06:46,964 --> 00:07:13,590\n哪些行業目前因為我們這個關稅的稅率或國際情勢相比於其他國家那包括它供應鏈的分佈的狀態它會受到影響那經營部來跟我們說它會受到影響我們就把它放入行業鏈裡面不啦我希望這樣啦就是說像這些沒有辦法列入的這些企業我們是不是更要進一步瞭解它是不是真的真的不是因為這個影響因為這個有些會還是會有一些你用行業別來列還是會有一些盲點好不好\n\n22\n00:07:14,554 --> 00:07:29,104\n好我們當然會持續的檢視是不是這個行業比較在擴大我們其實都在滾動的檢討好那另外我看到你們那個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算裡面我們勞動部總共拿到250億那就是\n\n23\n00:07:32,853 --> 00:07:52,870\n我們的目的就是要穩就業防關稅的衝擊是吧是可是我看到你們裡面有100億是拿去撥補勞保基金我想請問這個跟這個因應國際情勢有什麼關係呃跟我們說明這是兩個部分我們其實原本在行政院在那為什麼不在本預算裡面提呢\n\n24\n00:07:54,011 --> 00:08:11,114\n我們在行政院編列的過程裡面其實本來就是有150億其實是針對這個關稅的情勢的安定就業那有100億是勞保基金的撥補對啊這個跟這個特別預算特別預算放這個撥補勞保基金不是有點怪嗎\n\n25\n00:08:12,955 --> 00:08:37,361\n跟委員說明我們當然在公務預算裡面明年的公務預算裡面其實有撥補1200億那當然為什麼還在100億其實我們政府其實對於勞保勞保的水位的支持是我們持續性的不斷的在檢視所以當然我們現在在稅計剩餘下我們認為有一點空間可以再多給勞工的勞保多一點安定跟穩定但是我覺得那你在編預算的時候你1200億不然你就編1300嘛\n\n26\n00:08:39,341 --> 00:08:44,193\n你怎麼會在這邊用這個國安任性特別預算裡面來這個讓我們覺得這有點趁火打劫\n\n27\n00:08:49,870 --> 00:09:16,547\n委員這都是兩個都不同的事情委員這都是支持勞工的經費給勞工的經費絕對不是趁火打錢這是兩件事喔一個是勞退喔勞保基金喔那一個是因應國際情勢這不太一樣嘛委員因應國際情勢是151那勞保的撥補是100億這兩件事情不是同一個事情對啊那我們當然這次那好那我簡單問你\n\n28\n00:09:17,688 --> 00:09:36,462\n那這100億裡面有多少錢是進到這些減半倍降薪的勞工口袋裡面沒有委員還是要說這是兩件事情我們在因應國際情勢是150億那另外100億是勞保的撥補那之前包括也有用特別預算來去做勞保撥補這是我們的財政狀況跟稅劑剩餘\n\n29\n00:09:38,163 --> 00:09:58,298\n如果國家的財政狀況稅計算有一點餘裕的話我想這代表是勞工政府對於勞保財務的一種支持對啦勞保財務是長期性的問題啦那每年都在撥補的嘛我希望就事論是這個每一件事情我不希望在你夾雜在這個特別預算裡面就很怪啊\n\n30\n00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:17,253\n委員這不是夾雜特別預算這是我們是我們財政的狀況稅計剩餘的狀況所以你現在覺得財政狀況很好不是不是財政狀況當然因為財化法修法可是今年的稅計剩餘的確有一點空間那我們就認為應該把這一點空間拿來支持勞工跟勞保\n\n31\n00:10:18,427 --> 00:10:31,293\n我們是站在一個希望只要能夠多支持勞工一點多支持勞保一點我們就願意多做一點就是因為剛好國際情勢那這樣子看起來我們政府覺得國際情勢越亂越好啊這樣你們才可以趕快來編補趕快多弄點錢這個時候我們大家當然就知道產業受到衝擊我們需要一些經費來支持\n\n32\n00:10:40,237 --> 00:10:59,134\n那可是你不能說看到立法院好像要給錢了然後我們這些部門趕快你們自己沒不夠的趕快補一補趕快寫一寫委員這個錢不是叫立法院給錢這個錢國家的財政是來自於稅收跟稅金對沒錯啊但是還是要立法院通過嘛對不對立法院願意給了嘛願意給了那當然不會擋嘛\n\n33\n00:11:00,035 --> 00:11:23,655\n我們希望盡力爭取立法院的支持我們當然是不會去擋這種什麼特別預算而且是因應國際情勢這個變化的錢只是說我希望說這筆錢一歸一二歸二就希望把它弄清楚好不好那個跟文說明其實朝野的委員也都希望我們在撥補這部分只要能夠多做的都希望能夠多做一些這不一樣的事情啦當然你如果多做在勞工我全力支持\n\n34\n00:11:24,395 --> 00:11:33,744\n這當然都做在勞工勞保撥補當然都是用在勞工身上的你怎麼那麼愛變咧對不對好好講不聽不要講了啦不要講好謝謝邱振軍委員發言\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2706\t3875\t我們有請我們洪部長請洪部長\n8493\t35045\t邱委員早部長好部長我請問勞動部在我們10月1日的時候公布最新的這個減班休息統計那全國共有398家企業8505名勞工比9月中旬再增加了65家1171人可是我看到你們報告裡面在寫較前期平緩一些我不知道我想請教一下就是我們這平緩的意思是什麼\n36005\t62304\t因為前一期9月16號的時候那一天那一次的公佈是增加2471人那在10月1號的時候人數是增加1171人那我們這個因為是慢慢往上漲嗎人數還是增加的但是增加的數字比前一次公佈來的少一些可是他的整個數字看起來是那一個月增加了3000多人\n63044\t71262\t对所以他比上一个月来讲所以我的意思说我们跟前一期比较的话的确他增加的人数你看这个图是你们画的嘛\n72014\t95155\t對不對 你看那個線 這個怎麼會覺得會平緩呢所以我覺得很奇怪啊那個 秋遠 如果可以仔細看我們那個寫的句子如果前一張投影片 你是指前一次嘛對不對 跟前一期9月16號的發佈來比較 到了這個9月底嘛那一次是增加2400 那因為這一次增加是1100你看那個線也看起來很陡耶 怎麼會平緩 走路會跌倒耶\n96553\t112964\t我們不會因為這個數字的起伏而放鬆我其實沒有要指責什麼意思啊我只是說有時候用詞啊這有點讓人家覺得說你這個是在粉飾太平沒有我們絕對沒有要粉飾太平所以因為我們看到這個\n113504\t138324\t絕對沒有粉飾太平這個已經已經從你這個來看就是從全國無薪加是245家4863人9月底變成398家8505人這個數字一個月呢增加了3600多人那增幅高達75%所以當然我們從4月份來看它的整個是非常明顯的那整個來看它沒有一個月是下降的這個確實說我們應該要多注意一下這個狀況那這個\n143359\t162006\t部長你認為這個還會往上漲嗎我覺得這都要從趨勢來看那我覺得我們要有目前您看這樣子我們關稅的影響狀況已經達到高峰了沒有我自己是認為我們其實都要\n163291\t189833\t我們都不應該去預設最好的狀況是怎樣一個行政部門的角度來說我們一定是預設如果狀況還會惡化那我們的因應措施能不能夠讓勞工或讓企業得到幫助我們應該都是要從這個角度我也看到了你們在報告裡面寫到從4月9號到10月1號我們勞動力發展署已經仿視了20619家這點我當然給你們肯定只是說那我想請問一下就是說有多少家\n190774\t195793\t目前是正在實施減班或休息的又有多少家未來有可能會走向這個無薪\n197828\t223402\t有沒有評估過跟委員說明現在實施減半休息總共是398大概快400家那我們的確現在看到在這些實施減半休息加速裡面比較集中在幾個行業那大概幾個我們在報告裡面有提到包括像金屬製品製造那機械設備製造業然後也包括這個其他運輸工具\n224122\t241552\t那也包括像這個汽車零組件那這幾個行業是現在看到減慢休息比較集中的行業對 所以我們也針對這幾個行業也去做特別的關心也掌握他們行業內現在一些變化的動態那這也要很謝謝我們發展署各地分署的同仁\n242192\t260485\t我希望就是說你們在這個過程當中不要只是為了這個達成這個數字而去做這件事情不是說我看了多少家應該是我們期待看到說我們幫多少家企業解決了問題協助到了多少家企業這才是我們仿似的目的嘛 對不對\n260785\t274659\t跟文說明剛才講我們講到幾個減班休息比較多的行業其實現在我們都有放到我們這個強化版安定措施的行業別裡面也就是現在這些比較多的減班休息的企業其實\n276435\t300348\t只要他們有來通報那我們都可以有相關的薪資差額補貼給他們我看到你們在報告裡面講到有76.3293家企業適用這個雇用安定基金的措施那有83.6%大概7106位的勞工可以申請這個薪資差額補貼那我請問一下這個有在領了嗎有有多少人領\n303490\t320035\t目前來申請的目前在有申請資格跟我說明目前有申請資格然後有來申請的大概快接近一半那另外一半現在我們因為每個來跟我們通報的我們都會去了解\n320795\t337038\t那還有一半是因為他可能還因為我們的規定是要30天後減慢休息30天後才能來有的是30天還沒到那或者是有些還在補件那也有一些企業他是說他們可能想要三個月來申請一次就是所以可能會有延後來申請的狀況\n337819\t356034\t好 我希望不要說這個措施這個既然做了我們這些企業都沒有得到幫助那我再問一個就是說我發現你們在報告裡面講了有105家不適用這個雇用安定措施的廠商是什麼原因讓他們不適用\n357435\t380960\t因為其實我們這個強化版的公安徑措施比較是針對國際的經貿情勢的不確定所以它跟經貿沒有關係的就不受這個因為就不用協助就對了應該是說我們這個強化版公安措施其實是比較是針對關稅或者國際經貿情勢所影響的嘛 對不對那的確有一些企業它實時減慢休息的原因它是直接影響還是間接影響這個你們這個怎麼區分呢\n384902\t405883\t相關的影響當然我們都是因為他可能他的產業他的工作他只是做人的下游廠商嘛對不對他並沒有直接影響那這樣的適用嗎我們不是用我們不是用上下游來想我們是用行業別來框定那我們現在有公告了九個行業這九個行業當然很大部分是經濟部來跟我們說就是說\n406964\t433590\t哪些行業目前因為我們這個關稅的稅率或國際情勢相比於其他國家那包括它供應鏈的分佈的狀態它會受到影響那經營部來跟我們說它會受到影響我們就把它放入行業鏈裡面不啦 我希望這樣啦就是說像這些沒有辦法列入的這些企業我們是不是更要進一步瞭解它是不是真的真的不是因為這個影響因為這個有些會還是會有一些你用行業別來列還是會有一些盲點好不好\n434554\t449104\t好 我們當然會持續的檢視是不是這個行業比較在擴大我們其實都在滾動的檢討好 那另外我看到你們那個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算裡面我們勞動部總共拿到250億那就是\n452853\t472870\t我們的目的就是要穩就業防關稅的衝擊是吧是可是我看到你們裡面有100億是拿去撥補勞保基金我想請問這個跟這個因應國際情勢有什麼關係呃跟我們說明這是兩個部分我們其實原本在行政院在那為什麼不在本預算裡面提呢\n474011\t491114\t我們在行政院編列的過程裡面其實本來就是有150億其實是針對這個關稅的情勢的安定就業那有100億是勞保基金的撥補對啊這個跟這個特別預算特別預算放這個撥補勞保基金不是有點怪嗎\n492955\t517361\t跟委員說明我們當然在公務預算裡面明年的公務預算裡面其實有撥補1200億那當然為什麼還在100億其實我們政府其實對於勞保勞保的水位的支持是我們持續性的不斷的在檢視所以當然我們現在在稅計剩餘下我們認為有一點空間可以再多給勞工的勞保多一點安定跟穩定但是我覺得那你在編預算的時候你1200億不然你就編1300嘛\n519341\t524193\t你怎麼會在這邊用這個國安任性特別預算裡面來這個讓我們覺得這有點趁火打劫\n529870\t556547\t委員 這都是 兩個都不同的事情委員 這都是支持勞工的經費給勞工的經費絕對不是趁火打錢 這是兩件事喔一個是勞退喔 勞保基金喔那一個是因應國際情勢 這不太一樣嘛委員 因應國際情勢是151那勞保的撥補是100億這兩件事情不是同一個事情 對啊那我們當然這次 那好 那我簡單問你\n557688\t576462\t那這100億裡面有多少錢是進到這些減半倍降薪的勞工口袋裡面沒有 委員還是要說這是兩件事情我們在因應國際情勢是150億那另外100億是勞保的撥補那之前包括也有用特別預算來去做勞保撥補這是我們的財政狀況跟稅劑剩餘\n578163\t598298\t如果國家的財政狀況稅計算有一點餘裕的話我想這代表是勞工政府對於勞保財務的一種支持對啦 勞保財務是長期性的問題啦那每年都在撥補的嘛我希望就事論是這個每一件事情我不希望在你夾雜在這個特別預算裡面就很怪啊\n600140\t617253\t委員這不是夾雜特別預算這是我們是我們財政的狀況稅計剩餘的狀況所以你現在覺得財政狀況很好不是不是財政狀況當然因為財化法修法可是今年的稅計剩餘的確有一點空間那我們就認為應該把這一點空間拿來支持勞工跟勞保\n618427\t631293\t我們是站在一個希望只要能夠多支持勞工一點 多支持勞保一點我們就願意多做一點就是因為剛好國際情勢那這樣子看起來我們政府覺得國際情勢越亂越好啊這樣你們才可以趕快來編補 趕快多弄點錢這個時候我們大家當然就知道產業受到衝擊我們需要一些經費來支持\n640237\t659134\t那可是你不能說看到立法院好像要給錢了然後我們這些部門趕快你們自己沒不夠的趕快補一補 趕快寫一寫委員 這個錢不是叫立法院給錢這個錢國家的財政是來自於稅收跟稅金對 沒錯啊 但是還是要立法院通過嘛 對不對立法院願意給了嘛 願意給了那當然不會擋嘛\n660035\t683655\t我們希望盡力爭取立法院的支持我們當然是不會去擋這種什麼特別預算而且是因應國際情勢這個變化的錢只是說我希望說這筆錢一歸一 二歸二就希望把它弄清楚好不好那個跟文說明其實朝野的委員也都希望我們在撥補這部分只要能夠多做的都希望能夠多做一些這不一樣的事情啦當然你如果多做在勞工我全力支持\n684395\t693744\t這當然都做在勞工勞保撥補當然都是用在勞工身上的你怎麼那麼愛變咧對不對 好好講不聽不要講了啦 不要講好 謝謝邱振軍委員發言\n","txt":"我們有請我們洪部長請洪部長\n邱委員早部長好部長我請問勞動部在我們10月1日的時候公布最新的這個減班休息統計那全國共有398家企業8505名勞工比9月中旬再增加了65家1171人可是我看到你們報告裡面在寫較前期平緩一些我不知道我想請教一下就是我們這平緩的意思是什麼\n因為前一期9月16號的時候那一天那一次的公佈是增加2471人那在10月1號的時候人數是增加1171人那我們這個因為是慢慢往上漲嗎人數還是增加的但是增加的數字比前一次公佈來的少一些可是他的整個數字看起來是那一個月增加了3000多人\n对所以他比上一个月来讲所以我的意思说我们跟前一期比较的话的确他增加的人数你看这个图是你们画的嘛\n對不對 你看那個線 這個怎麼會覺得會平緩呢所以我覺得很奇怪啊那個 秋遠 如果可以仔細看我們那個寫的句子如果前一張投影片 你是指前一次嘛對不對 跟前一期9月16號的發佈來比較 到了這個9月底嘛那一次是增加2400 那因為這一次增加是1100你看那個線也看起來很陡耶 怎麼會平緩 走路會跌倒耶\n我們不會因為這個數字的起伏而放鬆我其實沒有要指責什麼意思啊我只是說有時候用詞啊這有點讓人家覺得說你這個是在粉飾太平沒有我們絕對沒有要粉飾太平所以因為我們看到這個\n絕對沒有粉飾太平這個已經已經從你這個來看就是從全國無薪加是245家4863人9月底變成398家8505人這個數字一個月呢增加了3600多人那增幅高達75%所以當然我們從4月份來看它的整個是非常明顯的那整個來看它沒有一個月是下降的這個確實說我們應該要多注意一下這個狀況那這個\n部長你認為這個還會往上漲嗎我覺得這都要從趨勢來看那我覺得我們要有目前您看這樣子我們關稅的影響狀況已經達到高峰了沒有我自己是認為我們其實都要\n我們都不應該去預設最好的狀況是怎樣一個行政部門的角度來說我們一定是預設如果狀況還會惡化那我們的因應措施能不能夠讓勞工或讓企業得到幫助我們應該都是要從這個角度我也看到了你們在報告裡面寫到從4月9號到10月1號我們勞動力發展署已經仿視了20619家這點我當然給你們肯定只是說那我想請問一下就是說有多少家\n目前是正在實施減班或休息的又有多少家未來有可能會走向這個無薪\n有沒有評估過跟委員說明現在實施減半休息總共是398大概快400家那我們的確現在看到在這些實施減半休息加速裡面比較集中在幾個行業那大概幾個我們在報告裡面有提到包括像金屬製品製造那機械設備製造業然後也包括這個其他運輸工具\n那也包括像這個汽車零組件那這幾個行業是現在看到減慢休息比較集中的行業對 所以我們也針對這幾個行業也去做特別的關心也掌握他們行業內現在一些變化的動態那這也要很謝謝我們發展署各地分署的同仁\n我希望就是說你們在這個過程當中不要只是為了這個達成這個數字而去做這件事情不是說我看了多少家應該是我們期待看到說我們幫多少家企業解決了問題協助到了多少家企業這才是我們仿似的目的嘛 對不對\n跟文說明剛才講我們講到幾個減班休息比較多的行業其實現在我們都有放到我們這個強化版安定措施的行業別裡面也就是現在這些比較多的減班休息的企業其實\n只要他們有來通報那我們都可以有相關的薪資差額補貼給他們我看到你們在報告裡面講到有76.3293家企業適用這個雇用安定基金的措施那有83.6%大概7106位的勞工可以申請這個薪資差額補貼那我請問一下這個有在領了嗎有有多少人領\n目前來申請的目前在有申請資格跟我說明目前有申請資格然後有來申請的大概快接近一半那另外一半現在我們因為每個來跟我們通報的我們都會去了解\n那還有一半是因為他可能還因為我們的規定是要30天後減慢休息30天後才能來有的是30天還沒到那或者是有些還在補件那也有一些企業他是說他們可能想要三個月來申請一次就是所以可能會有延後來申請的狀況\n好 我希望不要說這個措施這個既然做了我們這些企業都沒有得到幫助那我再問一個就是說我發現你們在報告裡面講了有105家不適用這個雇用安定措施的廠商是什麼原因讓他們不適用\n因為其實我們這個強化版的公安徑措施比較是針對國際的經貿情勢的不確定所以它跟經貿沒有關係的就不受這個因為就不用協助就對了應該是說我們這個強化版公安措施其實是比較是針對關稅或者國際經貿情勢所影響的嘛 對不對那的確有一些企業它實時減慢休息的原因它是直接影響還是間接影響這個你們這個怎麼區分呢\n相關的影響當然我們都是因為他可能他的產業他的工作他只是做人的下游廠商嘛對不對他並沒有直接影響那這樣的適用嗎我們不是用我們不是用上下游來想我們是用行業別來框定那我們現在有公告了九個行業這九個行業當然很大部分是經濟部來跟我們說就是說\n哪些行業目前因為我們這個關稅的稅率或國際情勢相比於其他國家那包括它供應鏈的分佈的狀態它會受到影響那經營部來跟我們說它會受到影響我們就把它放入行業鏈裡面不啦 我希望這樣啦就是說像這些沒有辦法列入的這些企業我們是不是更要進一步瞭解它是不是真的真的不是因為這個影響因為這個有些會還是會有一些你用行業別來列還是會有一些盲點好不好\n好 我們當然會持續的檢視是不是這個行業比較在擴大我們其實都在滾動的檢討好 那另外我看到你們那個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算裡面我們勞動部總共拿到250億那就是\n我們的目的就是要穩就業防關稅的衝擊是吧是可是我看到你們裡面有100億是拿去撥補勞保基金我想請問這個跟這個因應國際情勢有什麼關係呃跟我們說明這是兩個部分我們其實原本在行政院在那為什麼不在本預算裡面提呢\n我們在行政院編列的過程裡面其實本來就是有150億其實是針對這個關稅的情勢的安定就業那有100億是勞保基金的撥補對啊這個跟這個特別預算特別預算放這個撥補勞保基金不是有點怪嗎\n跟委員說明我們當然在公務預算裡面明年的公務預算裡面其實有撥補1200億那當然為什麼還在100億其實我們政府其實對於勞保勞保的水位的支持是我們持續性的不斷的在檢視所以當然我們現在在稅計剩餘下我們認為有一點空間可以再多給勞工的勞保多一點安定跟穩定但是我覺得那你在編預算的時候你1200億不然你就編1300嘛\n你怎麼會在這邊用這個國安任性特別預算裡面來這個讓我們覺得這有點趁火打劫\n委員 這都是 兩個都不同的事情委員 這都是支持勞工的經費給勞工的經費絕對不是趁火打錢 這是兩件事喔一個是勞退喔 勞保基金喔那一個是因應國際情勢 這不太一樣嘛委員 因應國際情勢是151那勞保的撥補是100億這兩件事情不是同一個事情 對啊那我們當然這次 那好 那我簡單問你\n那這100億裡面有多少錢是進到這些減半倍降薪的勞工口袋裡面沒有 委員還是要說這是兩件事情我們在因應國際情勢是150億那另外100億是勞保的撥補那之前包括也有用特別預算來去做勞保撥補這是我們的財政狀況跟稅劑剩餘\n如果國家的財政狀況稅計算有一點餘裕的話我想這代表是勞工政府對於勞保財務的一種支持對啦 勞保財務是長期性的問題啦那每年都在撥補的嘛我希望就事論是這個每一件事情我不希望在你夾雜在這個特別預算裡面就很怪啊\n委員這不是夾雜特別預算這是我們是我們財政的狀況稅計剩餘的狀況所以你現在覺得財政狀況很好不是不是財政狀況當然因為財化法修法可是今年的稅計剩餘的確有一點空間那我們就認為應該把這一點空間拿來支持勞工跟勞保\n我們是站在一個希望只要能夠多支持勞工一點 多支持勞保一點我們就願意多做一點就是因為剛好國際情勢那這樣子看起來我們政府覺得國際情勢越亂越好啊這樣你們才可以趕快來編補 趕快多弄點錢這個時候我們大家當然就知道產業受到衝擊我們需要一些經費來支持\n那可是你不能說看到立法院好像要給錢了然後我們這些部門趕快你們自己沒不夠的趕快補一補 趕快寫一寫委員 這個錢不是叫立法院給錢這個錢國家的財政是來自於稅收跟稅金對 沒錯啊 但是還是要立法院通過嘛 對不對立法院願意給了嘛 願意給了那當然不會擋嘛\n我們希望盡力爭取立法院的支持我們當然是不會去擋這種什麼特別預算而且是因應國際情勢這個變化的錢只是說我希望說這筆錢一歸一 二歸二就希望把它弄清楚好不好那個跟文說明其實朝野的委員也都希望我們在撥補這部分只要能夠多做的都希望能夠多做一些這不一樣的事情啦當然你如果多做在勞工我全力支持\n這當然都做在勞工勞保撥補當然都是用在勞工身上的你怎麼那麼愛變咧對不對 好好講不聽不要講了啦 不要講好 謝謝邱振軍委員發言\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.706 --> 00:03.875\n我們有請我們洪部長請洪部長\n\n00:08.493 --> 00:35.045\n邱委員早部長好部長我請問勞動部在我們10月1日的時候公布最新的這個減班休息統計那全國共有398家企業8505名勞工比9月中旬再增加了65家1171人可是我看到你們報告裡面在寫較前期平緩一些我不知道我想請教一下就是我們這平緩的意思是什麼\n\n00:36.005 --> 01:02.304\n因為前一期9月16號的時候那一天那一次的公佈是增加2471人那在10月1號的時候人數是增加1171人那我們這個因為是慢慢往上漲嗎人數還是增加的但是增加的數字比前一次公佈來的少一些可是他的整個數字看起來是那一個月增加了3000多人\n\n01:03.044 --> 01:11.262\n对所以他比上一个月来讲所以我的意思说我们跟前一期比较的话的确他增加的人数你看这个图是你们画的嘛\n\n01:12.014 --> 01:35.155\n對不對你看那個線這個怎麼會覺得會平緩呢所以我覺得很奇怪啊那個秋遠如果可以仔細看我們那個寫的句子如果前一張投影片你是指前一次嘛對不對跟前一期9月16號的發佈來比較到了這個9月底嘛那一次是增加2400那因為這一次增加是1100你看那個線也看起來很陡耶怎麼會平緩走路會跌倒耶\n\n01:36.553 --> 01:52.964\n我們不會因為這個數字的起伏而放鬆我其實沒有要指責什麼意思啊我只是說有時候用詞啊這有點讓人家覺得說你這個是在粉飾太平沒有我們絕對沒有要粉飾太平所以因為我們看到這個\n\n01:53.504 --> 02:18.324\n絕對沒有粉飾太平這個已經已經從你這個來看就是從全國無薪加是245家4863人9月底變成398家8505人這個數字一個月呢增加了3600多人那增幅高達75%所以當然我們從4月份來看它的整個是非常明顯的那整個來看它沒有一個月是下降的這個確實說我們應該要多注意一下這個狀況那這個\n\n02:23.359 --> 02:42.006\n部長你認為這個還會往上漲嗎我覺得這都要從趨勢來看那我覺得我們要有目前您看這樣子我們關稅的影響狀況已經達到高峰了沒有我自己是認為我們其實都要\n\n02:43.291 --> 03:09.833\n我們都不應該去預設最好的狀況是怎樣一個行政部門的角度來說我們一定是預設如果狀況還會惡化那我們的因應措施能不能夠讓勞工或讓企業得到幫助我們應該都是要從這個角度我也看到了你們在報告裡面寫到從4月9號到10月1號我們勞動力發展署已經仿視了20619家這點我當然給你們肯定只是說那我想請問一下就是說有多少家\n\n03:10.774 --> 03:15.793\n目前是正在實施減班或休息的又有多少家未來有可能會走向這個無薪\n\n03:17.828 --> 03:43.402\n有沒有評估過跟委員說明現在實施減半休息總共是398大概快400家那我們的確現在看到在這些實施減半休息加速裡面比較集中在幾個行業那大概幾個我們在報告裡面有提到包括像金屬製品製造那機械設備製造業然後也包括這個其他運輸工具\n\n03:44.122 --> 04:01.552\n那也包括像這個汽車零組件那這幾個行業是現在看到減慢休息比較集中的行業對所以我們也針對這幾個行業也去做特別的關心也掌握他們行業內現在一些變化的動態那這也要很謝謝我們發展署各地分署的同仁\n\n04:02.192 --> 04:20.485\n我希望就是說你們在這個過程當中不要只是為了這個達成這個數字而去做這件事情不是說我看了多少家應該是我們期待看到說我們幫多少家企業解決了問題協助到了多少家企業這才是我們仿似的目的嘛對不對\n\n04:20.785 --> 04:34.659\n跟文說明剛才講我們講到幾個減班休息比較多的行業其實現在我們都有放到我們這個強化版安定措施的行業別裡面也就是現在這些比較多的減班休息的企業其實\n\n04:36.435 --> 05:00.348\n只要他們有來通報那我們都可以有相關的薪資差額補貼給他們我看到你們在報告裡面講到有76.3293家企業適用這個雇用安定基金的措施那有83.6%大概7106位的勞工可以申請這個薪資差額補貼那我請問一下這個有在領了嗎有有多少人領\n\n05:03.490 --> 05:20.035\n目前來申請的目前在有申請資格跟我說明目前有申請資格然後有來申請的大概快接近一半那另外一半現在我們因為每個來跟我們通報的我們都會去了解\n\n05:20.795 --> 05:37.038\n那還有一半是因為他可能還因為我們的規定是要30天後減慢休息30天後才能來有的是30天還沒到那或者是有些還在補件那也有一些企業他是說他們可能想要三個月來申請一次就是所以可能會有延後來申請的狀況\n\n05:37.819 --> 05:56.034\n好我希望不要說這個措施這個既然做了我們這些企業都沒有得到幫助那我再問一個就是說我發現你們在報告裡面講了有105家不適用這個雇用安定措施的廠商是什麼原因讓他們不適用\n\n05:57.435 --> 06:20.960\n因為其實我們這個強化版的公安徑措施比較是針對國際的經貿情勢的不確定所以它跟經貿沒有關係的就不受這個因為就不用協助就對了應該是說我們這個強化版公安措施其實是比較是針對關稅或者國際經貿情勢所影響的嘛對不對那的確有一些企業它實時減慢休息的原因它是直接影響還是間接影響這個你們這個怎麼區分呢\n\n06:24.902 --> 06:45.883\n相關的影響當然我們都是因為他可能他的產業他的工作他只是做人的下游廠商嘛對不對他並沒有直接影響那這樣的適用嗎我們不是用我們不是用上下游來想我們是用行業別來框定那我們現在有公告了九個行業這九個行業當然很大部分是經濟部來跟我們說就是說\n\n06:46.964 --> 07:13.590\n哪些行業目前因為我們這個關稅的稅率或國際情勢相比於其他國家那包括它供應鏈的分佈的狀態它會受到影響那經營部來跟我們說它會受到影響我們就把它放入行業鏈裡面不啦我希望這樣啦就是說像這些沒有辦法列入的這些企業我們是不是更要進一步瞭解它是不是真的真的不是因為這個影響因為這個有些會還是會有一些你用行業別來列還是會有一些盲點好不好\n\n07:14.554 --> 07:29.104\n好我們當然會持續的檢視是不是這個行業比較在擴大我們其實都在滾動的檢討好那另外我看到你們那個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算裡面我們勞動部總共拿到250億那就是\n\n07:32.853 --> 07:52.870\n我們的目的就是要穩就業防關稅的衝擊是吧是可是我看到你們裡面有100億是拿去撥補勞保基金我想請問這個跟這個因應國際情勢有什麼關係呃跟我們說明這是兩個部分我們其實原本在行政院在那為什麼不在本預算裡面提呢\n\n07:54.011 --> 08:11.114\n我們在行政院編列的過程裡面其實本來就是有150億其實是針對這個關稅的情勢的安定就業那有100億是勞保基金的撥補對啊這個跟這個特別預算特別預算放這個撥補勞保基金不是有點怪嗎\n\n08:12.955 --> 08:37.361\n跟委員說明我們當然在公務預算裡面明年的公務預算裡面其實有撥補1200億那當然為什麼還在100億其實我們政府其實對於勞保勞保的水位的支持是我們持續性的不斷的在檢視所以當然我們現在在稅計剩餘下我們認為有一點空間可以再多給勞工的勞保多一點安定跟穩定但是我覺得那你在編預算的時候你1200億不然你就編1300嘛\n\n08:39.341 --> 08:44.193\n你怎麼會在這邊用這個國安任性特別預算裡面來這個讓我們覺得這有點趁火打劫\n\n08:49.870 --> 09:16.547\n委員這都是兩個都不同的事情委員這都是支持勞工的經費給勞工的經費絕對不是趁火打錢這是兩件事喔一個是勞退喔勞保基金喔那一個是因應國際情勢這不太一樣嘛委員因應國際情勢是151那勞保的撥補是100億這兩件事情不是同一個事情對啊那我們當然這次那好那我簡單問你\n\n09:17.688 --> 09:36.462\n那這100億裡面有多少錢是進到這些減半倍降薪的勞工口袋裡面沒有委員還是要說這是兩件事情我們在因應國際情勢是150億那另外100億是勞保的撥補那之前包括也有用特別預算來去做勞保撥補這是我們的財政狀況跟稅劑剩餘\n\n09:38.163 --> 09:58.298\n如果國家的財政狀況稅計算有一點餘裕的話我想這代表是勞工政府對於勞保財務的一種支持對啦勞保財務是長期性的問題啦那每年都在撥補的嘛我希望就事論是這個每一件事情我不希望在你夾雜在這個特別預算裡面就很怪啊\n\n10:00.140 --> 10:17.253\n委員這不是夾雜特別預算這是我們是我們財政的狀況稅計剩餘的狀況所以你現在覺得財政狀況很好不是不是財政狀況當然因為財化法修法可是今年的稅計剩餘的確有一點空間那我們就認為應該把這一點空間拿來支持勞工跟勞保\n\n10:18.427 --> 10:31.293\n我們是站在一個希望只要能夠多支持勞工一點多支持勞保一點我們就願意多做一點就是因為剛好國際情勢那這樣子看起來我們政府覺得國際情勢越亂越好啊這樣你們才可以趕快來編補趕快多弄點錢這個時候我們大家當然就知道產業受到衝擊我們需要一些經費來支持\n\n10:40.237 --> 10:59.134\n那可是你不能說看到立法院好像要給錢了然後我們這些部門趕快你們自己沒不夠的趕快補一補趕快寫一寫委員這個錢不是叫立法院給錢這個錢國家的財政是來自於稅收跟稅金對沒錯啊但是還是要立法院通過嘛對不對立法院願意給了嘛願意給了那當然不會擋嘛\n\n11:00.035 --> 11:23.655\n我們希望盡力爭取立法院的支持我們當然是不會去擋這種什麼特別預算而且是因應國際情勢這個變化的錢只是說我希望說這筆錢一歸一二歸二就希望把它弄清楚好不好那個跟文說明其實朝野的委員也都希望我們在撥補這部分只要能夠多做的都希望能夠多做一些這不一樣的事情啦當然你如果多做在勞工我全力支持\n\n11:24.395 --> 11:33.744\n這當然都做在勞工勞保撥補當然都是用在勞工身上的你怎麼那麼愛變咧對不對好好講不聽不要講了啦不要講好謝謝邱振軍委員發言\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.706,"end":3.875,"text":"我們有請我們洪部長請洪部長"},{"start":8.493,"end":35.045,"text":"邱委員早部長好部長我請問勞動部在我們10月1日的時候公布最新的這個減班休息統計那全國共有398家企業8505名勞工比9月中旬再增加了65家1171人可是我看到你們報告裡面在寫較前期平緩一些我不知道我想請教一下就是我們這平緩的意思是什麼"},{"start":36.005,"end":62.304,"text":"因為前一期9月16號的時候那一天那一次的公佈是增加2471人那在10月1號的時候人數是增加1171人那我們這個因為是慢慢往上漲嗎人數還是增加的但是增加的數字比前一次公佈來的少一些可是他的整個數字看起來是那一個月增加了3000多人"},{"start":63.044,"end":71.262,"text":"对所以他比上一个月来讲所以我的意思说我们跟前一期比较的话的确他增加的人数你看这个图是你们画的嘛"},{"start":72.014,"end":95.155,"text":"對不對 你看那個線 這個怎麼會覺得會平緩呢所以我覺得很奇怪啊那個 秋遠 如果可以仔細看我們那個寫的句子如果前一張投影片 你是指前一次嘛對不對 跟前一期9月16號的發佈來比較 到了這個9月底嘛那一次是增加2400 那因為這一次增加是1100你看那個線也看起來很陡耶 怎麼會平緩 走路會跌倒耶"},{"start":96.553,"end":112.964,"text":"我們不會因為這個數字的起伏而放鬆我其實沒有要指責什麼意思啊我只是說有時候用詞啊這有點讓人家覺得說你這個是在粉飾太平沒有我們絕對沒有要粉飾太平所以因為我們看到這個"},{"start":113.504,"end":138.324,"text":"絕對沒有粉飾太平這個已經已經從你這個來看就是從全國無薪加是245家4863人9月底變成398家8505人這個數字一個月呢增加了3600多人那增幅高達75%所以當然我們從4月份來看它的整個是非常明顯的那整個來看它沒有一個月是下降的這個確實說我們應該要多注意一下這個狀況那這個"},{"start":143.359,"end":162.006,"text":"部長你認為這個還會往上漲嗎我覺得這都要從趨勢來看那我覺得我們要有目前您看這樣子我們關稅的影響狀況已經達到高峰了沒有我自己是認為我們其實都要"},{"start":163.291,"end":189.833,"text":"我們都不應該去預設最好的狀況是怎樣一個行政部門的角度來說我們一定是預設如果狀況還會惡化那我們的因應措施能不能夠讓勞工或讓企業得到幫助我們應該都是要從這個角度我也看到了你們在報告裡面寫到從4月9號到10月1號我們勞動力發展署已經仿視了20619家這點我當然給你們肯定只是說那我想請問一下就是說有多少家"},{"start":190.774,"end":195.793,"text":"目前是正在實施減班或休息的又有多少家未來有可能會走向這個無薪"},{"start":197.828,"end":223.402,"text":"有沒有評估過跟委員說明現在實施減半休息總共是398大概快400家那我們的確現在看到在這些實施減半休息加速裡面比較集中在幾個行業那大概幾個我們在報告裡面有提到包括像金屬製品製造那機械設備製造業然後也包括這個其他運輸工具"},{"start":224.122,"end":241.552,"text":"那也包括像這個汽車零組件那這幾個行業是現在看到減慢休息比較集中的行業對 所以我們也針對這幾個行業也去做特別的關心也掌握他們行業內現在一些變化的動態那這也要很謝謝我們發展署各地分署的同仁"},{"start":242.192,"end":260.485,"text":"我希望就是說你們在這個過程當中不要只是為了這個達成這個數字而去做這件事情不是說我看了多少家應該是我們期待看到說我們幫多少家企業解決了問題協助到了多少家企業這才是我們仿似的目的嘛 對不對"},{"start":260.785,"end":274.659,"text":"跟文說明剛才講我們講到幾個減班休息比較多的行業其實現在我們都有放到我們這個強化版安定措施的行業別裡面也就是現在這些比較多的減班休息的企業其實"},{"start":276.435,"end":300.348,"text":"只要他們有來通報那我們都可以有相關的薪資差額補貼給他們我看到你們在報告裡面講到有76.3293家企業適用這個雇用安定基金的措施那有83.6%大概7106位的勞工可以申請這個薪資差額補貼那我請問一下這個有在領了嗎有有多少人領"},{"start":303.49,"end":320.035,"text":"目前來申請的目前在有申請資格跟我說明目前有申請資格然後有來申請的大概快接近一半那另外一半現在我們因為每個來跟我們通報的我們都會去了解"},{"start":320.795,"end":337.038,"text":"那還有一半是因為他可能還因為我們的規定是要30天後減慢休息30天後才能來有的是30天還沒到那或者是有些還在補件那也有一些企業他是說他們可能想要三個月來申請一次就是所以可能會有延後來申請的狀況"},{"start":337.819,"end":356.034,"text":"好 我希望不要說這個措施這個既然做了我們這些企業都沒有得到幫助那我再問一個就是說我發現你們在報告裡面講了有105家不適用這個雇用安定措施的廠商是什麼原因讓他們不適用"},{"start":357.435,"end":380.96,"text":"因為其實我們這個強化版的公安徑措施比較是針對國際的經貿情勢的不確定所以它跟經貿沒有關係的就不受這個因為就不用協助就對了應該是說我們這個強化版公安措施其實是比較是針對關稅或者國際經貿情勢所影響的嘛 對不對那的確有一些企業它實時減慢休息的原因它是直接影響還是間接影響這個你們這個怎麼區分呢"},{"start":384.902,"end":405.883,"text":"相關的影響當然我們都是因為他可能他的產業他的工作他只是做人的下游廠商嘛對不對他並沒有直接影響那這樣的適用嗎我們不是用我們不是用上下游來想我們是用行業別來框定那我們現在有公告了九個行業這九個行業當然很大部分是經濟部來跟我們說就是說"},{"start":406.964,"end":433.59,"text":"哪些行業目前因為我們這個關稅的稅率或國際情勢相比於其他國家那包括它供應鏈的分佈的狀態它會受到影響那經營部來跟我們說它會受到影響我們就把它放入行業鏈裡面不啦 我希望這樣啦就是說像這些沒有辦法列入的這些企業我們是不是更要進一步瞭解它是不是真的真的不是因為這個影響因為這個有些會還是會有一些你用行業別來列還是會有一些盲點好不好"},{"start":434.554,"end":449.104,"text":"好 我們當然會持續的檢視是不是這個行業比較在擴大我們其實都在滾動的檢討好 那另外我看到你們那個因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算裡面我們勞動部總共拿到250億那就是"},{"start":452.853,"end":472.87,"text":"我們的目的就是要穩就業防關稅的衝擊是吧是可是我看到你們裡面有100億是拿去撥補勞保基金我想請問這個跟這個因應國際情勢有什麼關係呃跟我們說明這是兩個部分我們其實原本在行政院在那為什麼不在本預算裡面提呢"},{"start":474.011,"end":491.114,"text":"我們在行政院編列的過程裡面其實本來就是有150億其實是針對這個關稅的情勢的安定就業那有100億是勞保基金的撥補對啊這個跟這個特別預算特別預算放這個撥補勞保基金不是有點怪嗎"},{"start":492.955,"end":517.361,"text":"跟委員說明我們當然在公務預算裡面明年的公務預算裡面其實有撥補1200億那當然為什麼還在100億其實我們政府其實對於勞保勞保的水位的支持是我們持續性的不斷的在檢視所以當然我們現在在稅計剩餘下我們認為有一點空間可以再多給勞工的勞保多一點安定跟穩定但是我覺得那你在編預算的時候你1200億不然你就編1300嘛"},{"start":519.341,"end":524.193,"text":"你怎麼會在這邊用這個國安任性特別預算裡面來這個讓我們覺得這有點趁火打劫"},{"start":529.87,"end":556.547,"text":"委員 這都是 兩個都不同的事情委員 這都是支持勞工的經費給勞工的經費絕對不是趁火打錢 這是兩件事喔一個是勞退喔 勞保基金喔那一個是因應國際情勢 這不太一樣嘛委員 因應國際情勢是151那勞保的撥補是100億這兩件事情不是同一個事情 對啊那我們當然這次 那好 那我簡單問你"},{"start":557.688,"end":576.462,"text":"那這100億裡面有多少錢是進到這些減半倍降薪的勞工口袋裡面沒有 委員還是要說這是兩件事情我們在因應國際情勢是150億那另外100億是勞保的撥補那之前包括也有用特別預算來去做勞保撥補這是我們的財政狀況跟稅劑剩餘"},{"start":578.163,"end":598.298,"text":"如果國家的財政狀況稅計算有一點餘裕的話我想這代表是勞工政府對於勞保財務的一種支持對啦 勞保財務是長期性的問題啦那每年都在撥補的嘛我希望就事論是這個每一件事情我不希望在你夾雜在這個特別預算裡面就很怪啊"},{"start":600.14,"end":617.253,"text":"委員這不是夾雜特別預算這是我們是我們財政的狀況稅計剩餘的狀況所以你現在覺得財政狀況很好不是不是財政狀況當然因為財化法修法可是今年的稅計剩餘的確有一點空間那我們就認為應該把這一點空間拿來支持勞工跟勞保"},{"start":618.427,"end":631.293,"text":"我們是站在一個希望只要能夠多支持勞工一點 多支持勞保一點我們就願意多做一點就是因為剛好國際情勢那這樣子看起來我們政府覺得國際情勢越亂越好啊這樣你們才可以趕快來編補 趕快多弄點錢這個時候我們大家當然就知道產業受到衝擊我們需要一些經費來支持"},{"start":640.237,"end":659.134,"text":"那可是你不能說看到立法院好像要給錢了然後我們這些部門趕快你們自己沒不夠的趕快補一補 趕快寫一寫委員 這個錢不是叫立法院給錢這個錢國家的財政是來自於稅收跟稅金對 沒錯啊 但是還是要立法院通過嘛 對不對立法院願意給了嘛 願意給了那當然不會擋嘛"},{"start":660.035,"end":683.655,"text":"我們希望盡力爭取立法院的支持我們當然是不會去擋這種什麼特別預算而且是因應國際情勢這個變化的錢只是說我希望說這筆錢一歸一 二歸二就希望把它弄清楚好不好那個跟文說明其實朝野的委員也都希望我們在撥補這部分只要能夠多做的都希望能夠多做一些這不一樣的事情啦當然你如果多做在勞工我全力支持"},{"start":684.395,"end":693.744,"text":"這當然都做在勞工勞保撥補當然都是用在勞工身上的你怎麼那麼愛變咧對不對 好好講不聽不要講了啦 不要講好 謝謝邱振軍委員發言"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":130,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（9時34分）有請我們洪部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：邱委員早。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好。部長，我請問勞動部在10月1日的時候公布最新的減班休息統計，全國共有398家企業、8,505名勞工，比9月中旬再增加了65家、1,171人，可是我看到你們報告裡面有寫較前期平緩一些，我不知道，我想請教一下，你們這平緩的意思是什麼？"],["洪部長申翰：因為前一期9月16日的時候，那次的公布是增加2,471人，在10月1日的時候，人數是增加1,171人，我們因為這一千……"],["邱委員鎮軍：是慢慢往上漲嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：人數還是增加的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，那平緩的意思是……"],["洪部長申翰：但是增加的數字比前一次公布的來得少一些。"],["邱委員鎮軍：可是這整個數字看起來是那一個月增加了三千多人。"],["洪部長申翰：對，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：比上一個月來講。"],["洪部長申翰：所以我的意思是我們跟前一期比較的話，的確它增加的人數有平緩一些。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你看簡報上這個圖是你們畫的嘛，對不對？你看那個趨勢線，怎麼會覺得是平緩呢？所以我覺得很奇怪。"],["洪部長申翰：邱委員，如果可以仔細看我們寫的那個句子，前一張投影片……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你是指前一次嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：跟前一期在9月16日的發布那天數據來比較……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這是9月底嘛？"],["洪部長申翰：那次是增加2,400人，因為這次增加是1,100人。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你看那個趨勢線看起來很陡，怎麼會平緩？這走路會跌倒耶！"],["洪部長申翰：是，當然……邱委員，我們不會因為這個數字的起伏而放鬆，我們全力戒備在這件事情上。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦！我其實沒有要指責什麼意思，我只是說有時候用詞有點讓人家覺得你們是在粉飾太平的感覺。"],["洪部長申翰：沒有，我們絕對沒有要粉飾太平。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為我們看到這個，從全國無薪假是245家、4,863人，9月底變成398家、8,505人，這個數字在一個月增加了三千六百多人，增幅高達75%，我們從4月份來看，它整個是非常明顯的，整體來看沒有一個月是下降的，確實你們應該要多注意一下這個狀況。部長，你認為這個還會往上漲嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得這都要從趨勢來看，我覺得我們還會增加的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：目前你看我們關稅的影響狀況已經達到高峰了沒有？"],["洪部長申翰：我自己是認為我們都不應該去預設最好的狀況是怎樣，一個行政部門的角度來說，我們一定是預設如果狀況還會惡化，我們的因應措施能不能夠讓勞工或讓企業得到幫助，我們應該都要從這角度來想。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我也看到了你們這報告裡面寫到，從4月9日到10月1日，你們勞動力發展署已經訪視了2萬619家。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這點我當然給你們肯定。我想請問一下，有多少家目前是正在實施減班或休息的？又有多少家未來有可能會走向無薪假？有沒有評估過？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，現在實施減班休息總共是398家，快400家嘛！我們的確現在看到在這些實施減班休息家數裡，比較集中在幾個行業啦！大概有幾個，我們在報告裡有提到，包括像金屬製品製造、機械設備製造業，也包括其他運輸工具、汽車零組件，這幾個行業是現在看到減班休息比較集中的行業。所以我們也針對這幾個行業去做特別的關心，也掌握他們行業內現在變化的動態，這也要很謝謝我們發展署各地分署的同仁。"],["邱委員鎮軍：當然我希望啦！就是你們在這個過程當中，不要只是為了達成那個數字而去做這件事情，不是說你們看了多少家，應該是我們期待看到你們幫多少家企業解決了問題，協助到了多少家企業，這才是你們訪視的目的嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，剛才我們講到幾個減班休息比較多的行業，其實現在我們都有放到強化版僱用安定措施的行業別裡面，也就是現在這些比較多減班休息的企業，只要他們有來通報，我們都可以有相關的薪資差額補貼給他們。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我看到你們在報告裡講到有76.3%、293家企業是用僱用安定基金的措施嘛？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：有83.6%，大概7,106位的勞工可以申請薪資差額補貼。我請問一下，這個有在領了嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：有多少人領？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，目前有申請資格有來申請的，大概快接近一半。"],["邱委員鎮軍：有一半了。"],["洪部長申翰：因為每個來跟我們通報的，我們都會去了解，還有一半是因為我們的規定是要減班休息30天後才能來申請，有的是30天還沒到，或者是有些還在補件，也有一些企業是說他們可能想要3個月來申請一次，就是可能會有延後來申請的狀況。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我希望不要這個措施既然做了，這些企業都沒有得到幫助。我再問一個，我發現你們在報告裡面講到有105家不適用僱用安定措施的廠商，是什麼原因讓他們不適用？"],["洪部長申翰：因為我們這個強化版的僱用安定措施比較是針對國際經貿情勢的不確定。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以他們跟經貿沒有關係的，就不用協助就對了？"],["洪部長申翰：應該是說，我們這個強化版的僱用安定措施是比較針對關稅或者國際經貿情勢所影響的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所影響的嘛，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：的確有一些企業實施減班休息的原因，他們可能是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：直接影響還是間接影響，這部分你們怎麼區分？"],["洪部長申翰：相關的影響，當然我們都是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，因為可能他的產業只是這些的下游廠商嘛，對不對？他並沒有直接影響，這樣的適用嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我們不是用上下游來想，我們是用行業別來匡定，現在有公告了9個行業，這9個行業當然有大部分是經濟部來跟我們說，就是哪些行業目前因為關稅的稅率或國際情勢相比於其他國家，包括他供應鏈分布的狀態，他會受到影響。由經濟部來跟我們說他會受到影響，我們就把他放到行業別裡面。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，我希望這樣啦！像沒有辦法列入的這些企業，你們是不是更要進一步了解他們是不是真的不是因為受這個影響？因為你們用行業別來列，還是會有一些盲點，好不好？去了解一下。"],["洪部長申翰：好，我們當然會持續的檢視啦！是不是這個行業別要再擴大，我們其實都在滾動的檢討。"],["邱委員鎮軍：另外我看到你們因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算裡面，勞動部總共拿到250億，我們的目的就是要穩就業、防關稅的衝擊，是吧？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：可是我看到你們裡面有100億是拿去撥補勞保基金，我想請問這個跟因應國際情勢有什麼關係？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，這是兩個部分，我們其實原本在行政院……"],["邱委員鎮軍：為什麼不在本預算裡面提呢？"],["洪部長申翰：我們在行政院編列的過程裡面，其實本來就是有150億是針對關稅情勢的安定就業，有100億是勞保基金的撥補。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，在特別預算放撥補勞保基金不是有點怪嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們當然在公務預算裡面，明年的公務預算裡面其實有撥補1,200億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，為什麼還要再100億？"],["洪部長申翰：其實政府對於勞保水位的支持是持續性的、不斷地在檢視，所以現在在歲計賸餘下，我們認為有一點空間可以再給勞工的勞保多一點安定跟穩定，我們就加了100億。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是我覺得你在編預算的時候編了1,200億，不然你就編1,300億嘛，你怎麼會在這邊用這個國安韌性特別預算來處理呢？讓我們覺得這有點趁火打劫。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，這都是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：兩個是不同的事情。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，這都是支持勞工的經費。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那不是支持……"],["洪部長申翰：給勞工的經費，絕對不是趁火打劫。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這是兩件事哦！一個是勞保基金，一個是因應國際情勢，這不太一樣嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：委員，因應國際情勢是150億，勞保的撥補是100億，這兩件事情不是同一個事情。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊！"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然這一次……"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，那我簡單問你，這100億裡面有多少錢是進到這些減班被降薪的勞工口袋裡面？沒有。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我還是要說，這是兩件事情。我們在因應國際情勢是150億，另外100億是勞保的撥補，之前也有用特別預算去做勞保撥補，這是視我們的財政狀況跟歲計賸餘，如果國家的財政狀況、歲計賸餘有一點餘裕的話，我想這代表的是政府對於勞保財務的一種支持。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啦，勞保財務是長期性的問題，每年都在撥補嘛，我希望就事論事，每一件事情，我不希望你夾雜在這個特別預算裡面，這就很怪啊！這個解釋不通嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：委員，這不是夾雜特別預算，這是我們視我們財政的狀況、歲計賸餘的狀況……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你現在覺得財政狀況很好？"],["洪部長申翰：不是、不是，委員，財政狀況的部分當然因為財劃法修法，可是今年的歲計賸餘的確有一點空間，我們就認為應該把這點空間拿來支持勞工跟勞保，我們是站在一個只要能夠多支持勞工一點、多支持勞保一點我們就多做一點的態度。"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為剛好國際情勢如此，那這樣看起來，我們政府會覺得國際情勢越亂越好，這樣你們才可以巧立名目，趕快來編補、趕快多弄點錢。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，絕對不是這樣子，委員，絕對不是……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個時候大家當然都知道產業受到衝擊，我們需要一些經費來支持，可是你不能說看到立法院好像要給錢了，然後這些部門自己有不夠的就趕快補一補、趕快寫一寫。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，這個錢不是立法院給錢，這個錢，國家的財政是來自於稅收跟歲計賸餘……"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，沒錯，但是還是要立法院通過，對不對？立法院願意給了，那當然不會擋嘛。"],["洪部長申翰：我們希望盡力爭取立法院的支持。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們當然不會去擋這種特別預算，而且是因應國際情勢變化的錢，只是說我希望這筆錢一歸一、二歸二，希望把它弄清楚，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實朝野委員也都希望我們再撥補這部分，只要能夠多做的都希望能夠多做一些。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這是不一樣的事情啊！當然你如果都做在勞工，我全力支持，百分之百支持。"],["洪部長申翰：這當然都做在勞工，勞保撥補當然都是用在勞工身上。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那是不一樣的東西，你怎麼那麼愛辯？好好講不聽！"],["洪部長申翰：委員……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你不要講了。"],["主席：謝謝邱鎮軍委員發言。"],["主席（邱委員鎮軍代）：接下來請廖偉翔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":428,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-2","speakers":["廖偉翔","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王正旭","鍾佳濱","林淑芬","黃國昌","陳瑩","葉元之","黃秀芳","陳菁徽","楊曜","劉建國","徐欣瑩","牛煦庭","王育敏","蘇清泉","盧縣一"],"page_start":361,"meetingDate":["2025-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請勞動部部長針對「因關稅造成我國市場就業及勞動環境衝擊之影響及因應對策」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00006"}}}