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0.999}, {\"word\": \"建\", \"start\": 826.322, \"end\": 826.342, \"score\": 0.185}, {\"word\": \"議\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,533 --> 00:00:12,637\n謝謝主席有請我們考試院劉秘書長還有考選部劉部長全序部我們司部長委員長\n\n2\n00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:40,920\n民務長還有兩位部長我想我延續剛剛有委員提到的問題再來追問你像我們這一次的預算中心有提到這個是公務人員高資低用這個人數我看剛剛召委他也很關心\n\n3\n00:00:41,821 --> 00:01:09,602\n但是呢這個預算中心這種寫法會產生很大的一個誤解啦有時候會造成說我領比較高的薪水然後去降調這好像有點偷懶這個我們在鄉下其實我們碰到很多很多人是因為啊我就沒有這個在職場上沒有這樣的一個職缺或者說我就很想回到我自己的故鄉有的人夫妻相隔兩地啊其實很重要的一個觀念\n\n4\n00:01:11,009 --> 00:01:26,158\n這個反而去降調的人在我所碰到的一個服務案件的案例裡面常常都是對職場上是最負責任的人對制度負責我要到其他的地方去我只好降調\n\n5\n00:01:27,862 --> 00:01:42,480\n這個對制度就是負責他也對他的家庭負責我要照顧我的父母親我要照顧我的家庭因素很多我反而會覺得說升官升到最高的人\n\n6\n00:01:43,749 --> 00:01:58,539\n官場未必就只有升官你專業能力被肯定當然是升官可是很多性盡之徒都升官他未必是有責任的而這是降調的人他是更有責任默默的貢獻出他的一個專業所以我反而會覺得說這個預算中心這種寫法這個只是一語之鑑那但是本身有個看法\n\n7\n00:02:05,547 --> 00:02:22,514\n這預算中心點出這樣一個問題那是不是我們也應該去檢討目前降調制度它的一個考慮去設置一個制度說如何去當作植物的一個轉換\n\n8\n00:02:23,934 --> 00:02:50,709\n或者說彈性配置的一個制度出來讓這個降調的人他變成說他又不失去他的專業還有對整個他職務上這樣的一個熱忱為這個職場來做出貢獻我不曉得三位的看法是怎麼樣謝謝委員對這個議題的關心特別來自南台灣我理解\n\n9\n00:02:51,610 --> 00:03:05,274\n常常碰到啊所以我剛剛有回答說這個報告本身可能寫事實但是有很多複雜的原因啦所以對於降調的人本身很多降調會減錢耶會會有的時候就沒有主管家級啦或者說沒有專業家級啦會\n\n10\n00:03:10,995 --> 00:03:28,292\n每個個案不一樣我應該這樣講可能在不同地區去做降調或者你降調到學校或降調到行政機關這樣都是沒有人的選擇啦應該這樣講啦所以啦我的意思是說預算中心講也不是全部都不對那翁委員關心的也不是不對但只是說我們要怎麼樣來設計出一個制度讓說\n\n11\n00:03:33,417 --> 00:03:40,745\n我就有這樣的一個專長可是呢我又沒有這樣的一個職缺我又必須要去降調這個就可惜了你有沒有覺得我們公務體系裡面應該有一個制度我們是有一個事求人人求事的公開找人的制度都會上網啦是就在那是那個\n\n12\n00:03:54,898 --> 00:04:22,431\n蘇俊榮任市長他們那個apply一個市求人人求事其實很多公務人員要找缺他都一定要公告他就去那邊看但重點是現在的結果就是導出預算中心給你點出有這麼多人去降調還是要想辦法解決啦好不好好我們會再繼續來是的好好地研議看看啦那我想啊要另外一個問題要請教就是說韓國現在一個國營的資料中心期會齁\n\n13\n00:04:23,686 --> 00:04:46,181\n那結果呢這個造成19萬名公務人員的資料全數就遺失這顯示這其實就是說他這整個數位的基礎建設缺乏備援跟災難的復原的一個機制這場火裡面他不是只有燒掉伺服器燒出了制度上的漏洞我看他這次647個系統裡面說只有20倍的有災難備援的一個計畫這個其實不是只有韓國的問題\n\n14\n00:04:54,248 --> 00:05:00,885\n這個是全世界政府的一個警訊所以我要請教我們考試院的說我們的資通的韌性\n\n15\n00:05:04,447 --> 00:05:15,271\n我們考試院跟全序部還有考選部我們現在在推動全面的一個數位化這個方向我相信大家都知道很正確但是我們這個系統我們有沒有安全這也就是說我們這些國家級的一個系統裡面有沒有定期的一個災難的一個復原的一個演練那備援系統的復原\n\n16\n00:05:26,636 --> 00:05:43,972\n它的覆蓋率到底會是多少會不會像韓國那樣要收了一個收了之後要六七百個還要存二十幾個變成它覆蓋率就這麼的少那意思就是說世界上韓國這樣只有幾個系統有備援其他好像都裸奔一樣請具體回答\n\n17\n00:05:46,207 --> 00:06:04,664\n考選部是那個治安A級單位意思是我們必須每年接受是全國最高等級的那個檢視那基本上委員所說的大概是幾個原則1D存放1D備援所以覆蓋率是百分之百我們基本上我們的關鍵核心資料一定必須做到1D存放跟1D備援\n\n18\n00:06:06,151 --> 00:06:28,303\n異地就是一定要在不同的地方我在當律師的時候我常常跟當事人大家想一想有天不順的監獄裡面關那麼多人訴訟階段有那麼多人那麼多犯罪的嫌疑人那有一天不管是法務部或司法院資料中心全部被牽住了資料都收掉了我看你裡面的犯人要怎麼樣要被告也要怎麼樣全部大家都不在意\n\n19\n00:06:33,146 --> 00:06:37,732\n我曾經去想過這樣的一個問題啦那所以其實就是一個備援的制度過去就資本嘛你現在都數位化嘛那所以部長你的想法是說現在全部我們的覆蓋率百分之百對一定要至少關鍵核心之下一定要異地存放跟異地備援\n\n20\n00:06:50,507 --> 00:06:56,191\n那這個做了就不錯了年度要演練所以沒有問題就對了那很好啊那我接下來要請教一個問題就是說我們現在談說電腦化的一個測試考選部你在115年度學習部部長請回\n\n21\n00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:33,393\n一百一十五年度要擴大辦理新增的驗光師驗光生還有第三次護理師還有司法官跟律師的第二次這個方向都對代表國家邁向一個數位的一個時代但是我要請問的就是說這些考區裡面我們有沒有去做過壓力測試或模擬演練如果發生技術故障有沒有明確應變的SOP來請保長你回跟委員報告有但是所以我們現在其實最\n\n22\n00:07:34,193 --> 00:07:57,630\n最主要就是要處理私立二因為私立二是深論題那而且它是基本上是競爭性的考試所以你們全部都有私立二最重要要處理的那個它的演練過程要避免有電力異常所以我們會在私立二我們會有核心市場我們核心市場考試的時候會全部被發電機我都沒什麼要相信\n\n23\n00:07:58,740 --> 00:08:23,611\n我可以請委員到時候來看我們現在建立國家電腦的市場裡面你現在金門也有啦那我看從台北考區桃園新竹台中台南高雄屏東花蓮金門也都有啦我要請教就是說金門可以離島嘛不要這樣奔波嘛台東為什麼沒有\n\n24\n00:08:26,074 --> 00:08:45,560\n主要是他的學校他缺乏可以讓我們設置這個市場的學校所以我們的要求就是說你必須要在最好是在同一個資訊大樓有足夠的電腦我覺得這樣就不對了我覺得這樣就不對了考卷部我們也去補助了很多大學敢設置電腦市場\n\n25\n00:08:47,490 --> 00:09:11,638\n台東也有台東大學這樣我覺得怎麼好像是你缺了台東這個就不太對你現在拿了200台電腦去嘛那個是要建置整個行動化電腦市場其實那規格老實說比一般的反而規格更高那當然我的意思就是說缺台東我就覺得不對\n\n26\n00:09:13,118 --> 00:09:34,751\n因為他也有蘭嶼啊他也有列島啊也有這些離島的考生他必須要去應試啊那你這一次你說電腦市場裡面你給台東考區你給他兩百台電腦不是給他是我們直接去那裡設一個行動你設了你如果要停電呢你如果斷線呢筆電最不怕停電筆電是這樣對我們每一個筆電會配兩到三個電源你如果斷線呢\n\n27\n00:09:39,233 --> 00:09:44,075\n筆電當然他未必是要插電啦電腦有膠當然就可以啦但是問題我的意思是萬一斷線又一設備出問題那你怎麼辦我要說的就是說他畢竟跟國家電腦市場來做比較的話對考生權益來講的話他還是不夠周延啦\n\n28\n00:09:59,860 --> 00:10:17,794\n跟委員報告我們的筆電的行動一定是完全按照我們現在的所有的這個規格但是如果說能夠有學校來提供固定位置當然更好所以如果說在這一點的話就是說有辦法能夠有學校來出現來合格的一個學校\n\n29\n00:10:19,045 --> 00:10:33,204\n非常樂觀其成我們不要只說樂觀其成啦我是認為說這個講法都會覺得說好像讓台東去自生自滅啦你要到大學裡面如果有那個比較好的設備啊我考選部加我當然樂觀其成這樣怎麼好\n\n30\n00:10:35,968 --> 00:10:41,251\n以國家電腦市場來講的話針對全國各地的考生他權益站在考選部的立場你要一併去跟他做保障你國家要輸的話要輸的話台東要看你喔看你自己喔你自己如果更進步台北的設備如果更好考選部我在這裡樂觀其成喔好弄一個我覺得這個態度不好\n\n31\n00:11:01,007 --> 00:11:21,137\n每一個台北來電腦他們到設備的時候你們就會去補助他設置這個國家電腦市場啊所以站台上我會覺得偏鄉的地方用這種臨時的方案這樣子硬撐對整個公職或者說專業認證的一些考試對這些考生來講的話\n\n32\n00:11:25,558 --> 00:11:53,143\n更不好的就是說你國家電腦的一個市場這個是指個數位國家的一個基本建設我認為那是一個投資建設的話我們在那邊講啊要智能政府啊智能政府阿嘎吉全台灣大家都智能電都政府台東不用變智能的一個政府要智能的政府我看我們就從智慧考試開始好不好\n\n33\n00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,488\n我簡單補充一下第一個就是說我們對電腦市場的設置\n\n34\n00:12:03,157 --> 00:12:28,364\n考試院的資源很有限他可以投資基本的設備但是他還需要學校本身有足夠的電腦教室那現在在台東用行動的這個方式來處理其實也是彌補這個當地資源的不足這是考選部的努力那委員希望能夠有一個穩定的比如說在那邊設置一個就是固定的這個電腦市場的話那看怎麼樣有爭取到更多的資源我們一起來努力\n\n35\n00:12:29,204 --> 00:12:47,436\n秘書長我的概念不只這樣不只是說那個地方的設備把它弄好是我們政府的政策你要推數位化的話偏鄉你就不能把它給漏掉你要智能政府你要數位化你說靠一腳缺了一腳\n\n36\n00:12:48,975 --> 00:13:08,971\n這樣不好啦對制度的一個投資這不是浪費啦更何況這是政府在對我們一直在談數位的一個轉型結果你讓偏鄉的考生沒有辦法站在同一條起跑線上我認為這個政府要趕快去做一個改善好不好把他當成重要的事情啦給他欠一件啦那錢不會花多少啦秘書長保證你來想一個辦法你不可以那我告訴你\n\n37\n00:13:15,336 --> 00:13:42,290\n這附近兩個灶圍都夠閃亮的都停泥了我跟王朝的都停泥台東緊衝一下好不好可以嗎這個我們再去跟您報告和緊衝衝數位政府偏鄉的地方沒有跟上這個就是假的那是國家對制度的一個投資我們把這個整個數位政府高唱露營結果說那個地方台東人跟你講說你唬爛我這邊又沒有不好好不好好謝謝\n\n38\n00:13:44,386 --> 00:13:46,342\n謝謝莊委員我也非常支持莊委員的建議\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6533\t12637\t謝謝主席有請我們考試院劉秘書長還有考選部劉部長全序部我們司部長委員長\n23720\t40920\t民務長還有兩位部長我想我延續剛剛有委員提到的問題再來追問你像我們這一次的預算中心有提到這個是公務人員高資低用這個人數我看剛剛召委他也很關心\n41821\t69602\t但是呢這個預算中心這種寫法會產生很大的一個誤解啦有時候會造成說我領比較高的薪水然後去降調這好像有點偷懶這個我們在鄉下其實我們碰到很多很多人是因為啊我就沒有這個在職場上沒有這樣的一個職缺或者說我就很想回到我自己的故鄉有的人夫妻相隔兩地啊其實很重要的一個觀念\n71009\t86158\t這個反而去降調的人在我所碰到的一個服務案件的案例裡面常常都是對職場上是最負責任的人對制度負責我要到其他的地方去我只好降調\n87862\t102480\t這個對制度就是負責他也對他的家庭負責我要照顧我的父母親我要照顧我的家庭因素很多我反而會覺得說升官 升到最高的人\n103749\t118539\t官場未必就只有升官你專業能力被肯定當然是升官可是很多性盡之徒都升官他未必是有責任的而這是降調的人他是更有責任默默的貢獻出他的一個專業所以我反而會覺得說這個預算中心這種寫法這個只是一語之鑑那但是本身有個看法\n125547\t142514\t這預算中心點出這樣一個問題那是不是我們也應該去檢討目前降調制度它的一個考慮去設置一個制度說如何去當作植物的一個轉換\n143934\t170709\t或者說彈性配置的一個制度出來讓這個降調的人他變成說他又不失去他的專業還有對整個他職務上這樣的一個熱忱為這個職場來做出貢獻我不曉得三位的看法是怎麼樣謝謝委員對這個議題的關心特別來自南台灣我理解\n171610\t185274\t常常碰到啊所以我剛剛有回答說這個報告本身可能寫事實但是有很多複雜的原因啦所以對於降調的人本身很多降調會減錢耶會 會有的時候就沒有主管家級啦或者說沒有專業家級啦會\n190995\t208292\t每個個案不一樣我應該這樣講可能在不同地區去做降調或者你降調到學校或降調到行政機關這樣都是沒有人的選擇啦應該這樣講啦所以啦我的意思是說預算中心講也不是全部都不對那翁委員關心的也不是不對但只是說我們要怎麼樣來設計出一個制度讓說\n213417\t220745\t我就有這樣的一個專長可是呢我又沒有這樣的一個職缺我又必須要去降調這個就可惜了你有沒有覺得我們公務體系裡面應該有一個制度我們是有一個事求人人求事的公開找人的制度都會上網啦是就在 那是那個\n234898\t262431\t蘇俊榮任市長他們那個apply一個市求人人求事其實很多公務人員要找缺他都一定要公告他就去那邊看但重點是現在的結果就是導出預算中心給你點出有這麼多人去降調還是要想辦法解決啦好不好好我們會再繼續來是的好好地研議看看啦那我想啊要另外一個問題要請教就是說韓國現在一個國營的資料中心期會齁\n263686\t286181\t那結果呢這個造成19萬名公務人員的資料全數就遺失這顯示這其實就是說他這整個數位的基礎建設缺乏備援跟災難的復原的一個機制這場火裡面他不是只有燒掉伺服器燒出了制度上的漏洞我看他這次647個系統裡面說只有20倍的有災難備援的一個計畫這個其實不是只有韓國的問題\n294248\t300885\t這個是全世界政府的一個警訊所以我要請教我們考試院的說我們的資通的韌性\n304447\t315271\t我們考試院跟全序部還有考選部我們現在在推動全面的一個數位化這個方向我相信大家都知道很正確但是我們這個系統我們有沒有安全這也就是說我們這些國家級的一個系統裡面有沒有定期的一個災難的一個復原的一個演練那備援系統的復原\n326636\t343972\t它的覆蓋率到底會是多少 會不會像韓國那樣 要收了 一個收了之後要六七百個 還要存二十幾個 變成它覆蓋率就這麼的少那意思就是說 世界上韓國這樣 只有幾個系統有備援其他好像都裸奔一樣 請具體回答\n346207\t364664\t考選部是那個治安A級單位意思是我們必須每年接受是全國最高等級的那個檢視那基本上委員所說的大概是幾個原則1D存放 1D備援所以覆蓋率是百分之百我們基本上我們的關鍵核心資料一定必須做到1D存放跟1D備援\n366151\t388303\t異地就是一定要在不同的地方我在當律師的時候 我常常跟當事人大家想一想 有天不順的監獄裡面關那麼多人訴訟階段有那麼多人 那麼多犯罪的嫌疑人那有一天 不管是法務部或司法院資料中心全部被牽住了 資料都收掉了我看你裡面的犯人要怎麼樣要被告也要怎麼樣 全部大家都不在意\n393146\t397732\t我曾經去想過這樣的一個問題啦那所以其實就是一個備援的制度過去就資本嘛你現在都數位化嘛那所以部長你的想法是說現在全部我們的覆蓋率百分之百對 一定要至少關鍵核心之下一定要異地存放跟異地備援\n410507\t416191\t那這個做了就不錯了年度要演練所以沒有問題就對了那很好啊那我接下來要請教一個問題就是說我們現在談說電腦化的一個測試考選部你在115年度學習部部長請回\n427920\t453393\t一百一十五年度要擴大辦理新增的驗光師 驗光生還有第三次護理師還有司法官跟律師的第二次這個方向都對代表國家邁向一個數位的一個時代但是我要請問的就是說這些考區裡面我們有沒有去做過壓力測試或模擬演練如果發生技術故障有沒有明確應變的SOP來 請保長你回跟委員報告 有但是所以我們現在其實最\n454193\t477630\t最主要就是要處理私立二因為私立二是深論題那而且它是基本上是競爭性的考試所以你們全部都有私立二最重要要處理的那個它的演練過程要避免有電力異常所以我們會在私立二我們會有核心市場我們核心市場考試的時候會全部被發電機我都沒什麼要相信\n478740\t503611\t我可以請委員到時候來看我們現在建立國家電腦的市場裡面你現在金門也有啦那我看從台北考區 桃園 新竹 台中 台南 高雄屏東 花蓮金門也都有啦我要請教就是說金門可以離島嘛不要這樣奔波嘛台東為什麼沒有\n506074\t525560\t主要是他的學校他缺乏可以讓我們設置這個市場的學校所以我們的要求就是說你必須要在最好是在同一個資訊大樓有足夠的電腦我覺得這樣就不對了我覺得這樣就不對了考卷部我們也去補助了很多大學敢設置電腦市場\n527490\t551638\t台東也有台東大學這樣我覺得怎麼好像是你缺了台東這個就不太對你現在拿了200台電腦去嘛那個是要建置整個行動化電腦市場其實那規格老實說比一般的反而規格更高那當然我的意思就是說缺台東我就覺得不對\n553118\t574751\t因為他也有蘭嶼啊他也有列島啊也有這些離島的考生他必須要去應試啊那你這一次你說電腦市場裡面你給台東考區你給他兩百台電腦不是給他 是我們直接去那裡設一個行動你設了 你如果要停電呢你如果斷線呢筆電最不怕停電筆電是這樣 對我們每一個筆電會配兩到三個電源你如果斷線呢\n579233\t584075\t筆電當然他未必是要插電啦電腦有膠當然就可以啦但是問題我的意思是萬一斷線又一設備出問題那你怎麼辦我要說的就是說他畢竟跟國家電腦市場來做比較的話對考生權益來講的話他還是不夠周延啦\n599860\t617794\t跟委員報告我們的筆電的行動一定是完全按照我們現在的所有的這個規格但是如果說能夠有學校來提供固定位置當然更好所以如果說在這一點的話就是說有辦法能夠有學校來出現來合格的一個學校\n619045\t633204\t非常樂觀其成我們不要只說樂觀其成啦我是認為說這個講法都會覺得說好像讓台東去自生自滅啦你要到大學裡面如果有那個比較好的設備啊我考選部加我當然樂觀其成這樣怎麼好\n635968\t641251\t以國家電腦市場來講的話 針對全國各地的考生他權益站在考選部的立場 你要一併去跟他做保障你國家要輸的話 要輸的話 台東要看你喔 看你自己喔你自己如果更進步 台北的設備如果更好 考選部我在這裡 樂觀其成喔好 弄一個 我覺得這個態度不好\n661007\t681137\t每一個台北來電腦 他們到設備的時候你們就會去補助他設置這個國家電腦市場啊所以站台上 我會覺得偏鄉的地方用這種臨時的方案這樣子硬撐對整個公職或者說專業認證的一些考試對這些考生來講的話\n685558\t713143\t更不好的就是說你國家電腦的一個市場這個是指個數位國家的一個基本建設我認為那是一個投資建設的話 我們在那邊講啊要智能政府啊智能政府阿嘎吉全台灣大家都智能電 都政府台東不用變智能的一個政府要智能的政府我看我們就從智慧考試開始 好不好\n715679\t719488\t我簡單補充一下第一個就是說我們對電腦市場的設置\n723157\t748364\t考試院的資源很有限他可以投資基本的設備但是他還需要學校本身有足夠的電腦教室那現在在台東用行動的這個方式來處理其實也是彌補這個當地資源的不足這是考選部的努力那委員希望能夠有一個穩定的比如說在那邊設置一個就是固定的這個電腦市場的話那看怎麼樣有爭取到更多的資源我們一起來努力\n749204\t767436\t秘書長 我的概念不只這樣不只是說那個地方的設備把它弄好是我們政府的政策你要推數位化的話偏鄉你就不能把它給漏掉你要智能政府 你要數位化你說靠一腳 缺了一腳\n768975\t788971\t這樣不好啦對制度的一個投資這不是浪費啦更何況這是政府在對我們一直在談數位的一個轉型結果你讓偏鄉的考生沒有辦法站在同一條起跑線上我認為這個政府要趕快去做一個改善好不好把他當成重要的事情啦給他欠一件啦那錢不會花多少啦秘書長 保證你來想一個辦法你不可以 那我告訴你\n795336\t822290\t這附近兩個灶圍 都夠閃亮的 都停泥了我跟王朝的都停泥 台東緊衝一下 好不好可以嗎這個我們再去跟您報告和緊衝衝 數位政府偏鄉的地方沒有跟上 這個就是假的那是國家對制度的一個投資我們把這個整個數位政府高唱露營結果說 那個地方 台東人跟你講說你唬爛 我這邊又沒有 不好 好不好好 謝謝\n824386\t826342\t謝謝莊委員我也非常支持莊委員的建議\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請我們考試院劉秘書長還有考選部劉部長全序部我們司部長委員長\n民務長還有兩位部長我想我延續剛剛有委員提到的問題再來追問你像我們這一次的預算中心有提到這個是公務人員高資低用這個人數我看剛剛召委他也很關心\n但是呢這個預算中心這種寫法會產生很大的一個誤解啦有時候會造成說我領比較高的薪水然後去降調這好像有點偷懶這個我們在鄉下其實我們碰到很多很多人是因為啊我就沒有這個在職場上沒有這樣的一個職缺或者說我就很想回到我自己的故鄉有的人夫妻相隔兩地啊其實很重要的一個觀念\n這個反而去降調的人在我所碰到的一個服務案件的案例裡面常常都是對職場上是最負責任的人對制度負責我要到其他的地方去我只好降調\n這個對制度就是負責他也對他的家庭負責我要照顧我的父母親我要照顧我的家庭因素很多我反而會覺得說升官 升到最高的人\n官場未必就只有升官你專業能力被肯定當然是升官可是很多性盡之徒都升官他未必是有責任的而這是降調的人他是更有責任默默的貢獻出他的一個專業所以我反而會覺得說這個預算中心這種寫法這個只是一語之鑑那但是本身有個看法\n這預算中心點出這樣一個問題那是不是我們也應該去檢討目前降調制度它的一個考慮去設置一個制度說如何去當作植物的一個轉換\n或者說彈性配置的一個制度出來讓這個降調的人他變成說他又不失去他的專業還有對整個他職務上這樣的一個熱忱為這個職場來做出貢獻我不曉得三位的看法是怎麼樣謝謝委員對這個議題的關心特別來自南台灣我理解\n常常碰到啊所以我剛剛有回答說這個報告本身可能寫事實但是有很多複雜的原因啦所以對於降調的人本身很多降調會減錢耶會 會有的時候就沒有主管家級啦或者說沒有專業家級啦會\n每個個案不一樣我應該這樣講可能在不同地區去做降調或者你降調到學校或降調到行政機關這樣都是沒有人的選擇啦應該這樣講啦所以啦我的意思是說預算中心講也不是全部都不對那翁委員關心的也不是不對但只是說我們要怎麼樣來設計出一個制度讓說\n我就有這樣的一個專長可是呢我又沒有這樣的一個職缺我又必須要去降調這個就可惜了你有沒有覺得我們公務體系裡面應該有一個制度我們是有一個事求人人求事的公開找人的制度都會上網啦是就在 那是那個\n蘇俊榮任市長他們那個apply一個市求人人求事其實很多公務人員要找缺他都一定要公告他就去那邊看但重點是現在的結果就是導出預算中心給你點出有這麼多人去降調還是要想辦法解決啦好不好好我們會再繼續來是的好好地研議看看啦那我想啊要另外一個問題要請教就是說韓國現在一個國營的資料中心期會齁\n那結果呢這個造成19萬名公務人員的資料全數就遺失這顯示這其實就是說他這整個數位的基礎建設缺乏備援跟災難的復原的一個機制這場火裡面他不是只有燒掉伺服器燒出了制度上的漏洞我看他這次647個系統裡面說只有20倍的有災難備援的一個計畫這個其實不是只有韓國的問題\n這個是全世界政府的一個警訊所以我要請教我們考試院的說我們的資通的韌性\n我們考試院跟全序部還有考選部我們現在在推動全面的一個數位化這個方向我相信大家都知道很正確但是我們這個系統我們有沒有安全這也就是說我們這些國家級的一個系統裡面有沒有定期的一個災難的一個復原的一個演練那備援系統的復原\n它的覆蓋率到底會是多少 會不會像韓國那樣 要收了 一個收了之後要六七百個 還要存二十幾個 變成它覆蓋率就這麼的少那意思就是說 世界上韓國這樣 只有幾個系統有備援其他好像都裸奔一樣 請具體回答\n考選部是那個治安A級單位意思是我們必須每年接受是全國最高等級的那個檢視那基本上委員所說的大概是幾個原則1D存放 1D備援所以覆蓋率是百分之百我們基本上我們的關鍵核心資料一定必須做到1D存放跟1D備援\n異地就是一定要在不同的地方我在當律師的時候 我常常跟當事人大家想一想 有天不順的監獄裡面關那麼多人訴訟階段有那麼多人 那麼多犯罪的嫌疑人那有一天 不管是法務部或司法院資料中心全部被牽住了 資料都收掉了我看你裡面的犯人要怎麼樣要被告也要怎麼樣 全部大家都不在意\n我曾經去想過這樣的一個問題啦那所以其實就是一個備援的制度過去就資本嘛你現在都數位化嘛那所以部長你的想法是說現在全部我們的覆蓋率百分之百對 一定要至少關鍵核心之下一定要異地存放跟異地備援\n那這個做了就不錯了年度要演練所以沒有問題就對了那很好啊那我接下來要請教一個問題就是說我們現在談說電腦化的一個測試考選部你在115年度學習部部長請回\n一百一十五年度要擴大辦理新增的驗光師 驗光生還有第三次護理師還有司法官跟律師的第二次這個方向都對代表國家邁向一個數位的一個時代但是我要請問的就是說這些考區裡面我們有沒有去做過壓力測試或模擬演練如果發生技術故障有沒有明確應變的SOP來 請保長你回跟委員報告 有但是所以我們現在其實最\n最主要就是要處理私立二因為私立二是深論題那而且它是基本上是競爭性的考試所以你們全部都有私立二最重要要處理的那個它的演練過程要避免有電力異常所以我們會在私立二我們會有核心市場我們核心市場考試的時候會全部被發電機我都沒什麼要相信\n我可以請委員到時候來看我們現在建立國家電腦的市場裡面你現在金門也有啦那我看從台北考區 桃園 新竹 台中 台南 高雄屏東 花蓮金門也都有啦我要請教就是說金門可以離島嘛不要這樣奔波嘛台東為什麼沒有\n主要是他的學校他缺乏可以讓我們設置這個市場的學校所以我們的要求就是說你必須要在最好是在同一個資訊大樓有足夠的電腦我覺得這樣就不對了我覺得這樣就不對了考卷部我們也去補助了很多大學敢設置電腦市場\n台東也有台東大學這樣我覺得怎麼好像是你缺了台東這個就不太對你現在拿了200台電腦去嘛那個是要建置整個行動化電腦市場其實那規格老實說比一般的反而規格更高那當然我的意思就是說缺台東我就覺得不對\n因為他也有蘭嶼啊他也有列島啊也有這些離島的考生他必須要去應試啊那你這一次你說電腦市場裡面你給台東考區你給他兩百台電腦不是給他 是我們直接去那裡設一個行動你設了 你如果要停電呢你如果斷線呢筆電最不怕停電筆電是這樣 對我們每一個筆電會配兩到三個電源你如果斷線呢\n筆電當然他未必是要插電啦電腦有膠當然就可以啦但是問題我的意思是萬一斷線又一設備出問題那你怎麼辦我要說的就是說他畢竟跟國家電腦市場來做比較的話對考生權益來講的話他還是不夠周延啦\n跟委員報告我們的筆電的行動一定是完全按照我們現在的所有的這個規格但是如果說能夠有學校來提供固定位置當然更好所以如果說在這一點的話就是說有辦法能夠有學校來出現來合格的一個學校\n非常樂觀其成我們不要只說樂觀其成啦我是認為說這個講法都會覺得說好像讓台東去自生自滅啦你要到大學裡面如果有那個比較好的設備啊我考選部加我當然樂觀其成這樣怎麼好\n以國家電腦市場來講的話 針對全國各地的考生他權益站在考選部的立場 你要一併去跟他做保障你國家要輸的話 要輸的話 台東要看你喔 看你自己喔你自己如果更進步 台北的設備如果更好 考選部我在這裡 樂觀其成喔好 弄一個 我覺得這個態度不好\n每一個台北來電腦 他們到設備的時候你們就會去補助他設置這個國家電腦市場啊所以站台上 我會覺得偏鄉的地方用這種臨時的方案這樣子硬撐對整個公職或者說專業認證的一些考試對這些考生來講的話\n更不好的就是說你國家電腦的一個市場這個是指個數位國家的一個基本建設我認為那是一個投資建設的話 我們在那邊講啊要智能政府啊智能政府阿嘎吉全台灣大家都智能電 都政府台東不用變智能的一個政府要智能的政府我看我們就從智慧考試開始 好不好\n我簡單補充一下第一個就是說我們對電腦市場的設置\n考試院的資源很有限他可以投資基本的設備但是他還需要學校本身有足夠的電腦教室那現在在台東用行動的這個方式來處理其實也是彌補這個當地資源的不足這是考選部的努力那委員希望能夠有一個穩定的比如說在那邊設置一個就是固定的這個電腦市場的話那看怎麼樣有爭取到更多的資源我們一起來努力\n秘書長 我的概念不只這樣不只是說那個地方的設備把它弄好是我們政府的政策你要推數位化的話偏鄉你就不能把它給漏掉你要智能政府 你要數位化你說靠一腳 缺了一腳\n這樣不好啦對制度的一個投資這不是浪費啦更何況這是政府在對我們一直在談數位的一個轉型結果你讓偏鄉的考生沒有辦法站在同一條起跑線上我認為這個政府要趕快去做一個改善好不好把他當成重要的事情啦給他欠一件啦那錢不會花多少啦秘書長 保證你來想一個辦法你不可以 那我告訴你\n這附近兩個灶圍 都夠閃亮的 都停泥了我跟王朝的都停泥 台東緊衝一下 好不好可以嗎這個我們再去跟您報告和緊衝衝 數位政府偏鄉的地方沒有跟上 這個就是假的那是國家對制度的一個投資我們把這個整個數位政府高唱露營結果說 那個地方 台東人跟你講說你唬爛 我這邊又沒有 不好 好不好好 謝謝\n謝謝莊委員我也非常支持莊委員的建議\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.533 --> 00:12.637\n謝謝主席有請我們考試院劉秘書長還有考選部劉部長全序部我們司部長委員長\n\n00:23.720 --> 00:40.920\n民務長還有兩位部長我想我延續剛剛有委員提到的問題再來追問你像我們這一次的預算中心有提到這個是公務人員高資低用這個人數我看剛剛召委他也很關心\n\n00:41.821 --> 01:09.602\n但是呢這個預算中心這種寫法會產生很大的一個誤解啦有時候會造成說我領比較高的薪水然後去降調這好像有點偷懶這個我們在鄉下其實我們碰到很多很多人是因為啊我就沒有這個在職場上沒有這樣的一個職缺或者說我就很想回到我自己的故鄉有的人夫妻相隔兩地啊其實很重要的一個觀念\n\n01:11.009 --> 01:26.158\n這個反而去降調的人在我所碰到的一個服務案件的案例裡面常常都是對職場上是最負責任的人對制度負責我要到其他的地方去我只好降調\n\n01:27.862 --> 01:42.480\n這個對制度就是負責他也對他的家庭負責我要照顧我的父母親我要照顧我的家庭因素很多我反而會覺得說升官升到最高的人\n\n01:43.749 --> 01:58.539\n官場未必就只有升官你專業能力被肯定當然是升官可是很多性盡之徒都升官他未必是有責任的而這是降調的人他是更有責任默默的貢獻出他的一個專業所以我反而會覺得說這個預算中心這種寫法這個只是一語之鑑那但是本身有個看法\n\n02:05.547 --> 02:22.514\n這預算中心點出這樣一個問題那是不是我們也應該去檢討目前降調制度它的一個考慮去設置一個制度說如何去當作植物的一個轉換\n\n02:23.934 --> 02:50.709\n或者說彈性配置的一個制度出來讓這個降調的人他變成說他又不失去他的專業還有對整個他職務上這樣的一個熱忱為這個職場來做出貢獻我不曉得三位的看法是怎麼樣謝謝委員對這個議題的關心特別來自南台灣我理解\n\n02:51.610 --> 03:05.274\n常常碰到啊所以我剛剛有回答說這個報告本身可能寫事實但是有很多複雜的原因啦所以對於降調的人本身很多降調會減錢耶會會有的時候就沒有主管家級啦或者說沒有專業家級啦會\n\n03:10.995 --> 03:28.292\n每個個案不一樣我應該這樣講可能在不同地區去做降調或者你降調到學校或降調到行政機關這樣都是沒有人的選擇啦應該這樣講啦所以啦我的意思是說預算中心講也不是全部都不對那翁委員關心的也不是不對但只是說我們要怎麼樣來設計出一個制度讓說\n\n03:33.417 --> 03:40.745\n我就有這樣的一個專長可是呢我又沒有這樣的一個職缺我又必須要去降調這個就可惜了你有沒有覺得我們公務體系裡面應該有一個制度我們是有一個事求人人求事的公開找人的制度都會上網啦是就在那是那個\n\n03:54.898 --> 04:22.431\n蘇俊榮任市長他們那個apply一個市求人人求事其實很多公務人員要找缺他都一定要公告他就去那邊看但重點是現在的結果就是導出預算中心給你點出有這麼多人去降調還是要想辦法解決啦好不好好我們會再繼續來是的好好地研議看看啦那我想啊要另外一個問題要請教就是說韓國現在一個國營的資料中心期會齁\n\n04:23.686 --> 04:46.181\n那結果呢這個造成19萬名公務人員的資料全數就遺失這顯示這其實就是說他這整個數位的基礎建設缺乏備援跟災難的復原的一個機制這場火裡面他不是只有燒掉伺服器燒出了制度上的漏洞我看他這次647個系統裡面說只有20倍的有災難備援的一個計畫這個其實不是只有韓國的問題\n\n04:54.248 --> 05:00.885\n這個是全世界政府的一個警訊所以我要請教我們考試院的說我們的資通的韌性\n\n05:04.447 --> 05:15.271\n我們考試院跟全序部還有考選部我們現在在推動全面的一個數位化這個方向我相信大家都知道很正確但是我們這個系統我們有沒有安全這也就是說我們這些國家級的一個系統裡面有沒有定期的一個災難的一個復原的一個演練那備援系統的復原\n\n05:26.636 --> 05:43.972\n它的覆蓋率到底會是多少會不會像韓國那樣要收了一個收了之後要六七百個還要存二十幾個變成它覆蓋率就這麼的少那意思就是說世界上韓國這樣只有幾個系統有備援其他好像都裸奔一樣請具體回答\n\n05:46.207 --> 06:04.664\n考選部是那個治安A級單位意思是我們必須每年接受是全國最高等級的那個檢視那基本上委員所說的大概是幾個原則1D存放1D備援所以覆蓋率是百分之百我們基本上我們的關鍵核心資料一定必須做到1D存放跟1D備援\n\n06:06.151 --> 06:28.303\n異地就是一定要在不同的地方我在當律師的時候我常常跟當事人大家想一想有天不順的監獄裡面關那麼多人訴訟階段有那麼多人那麼多犯罪的嫌疑人那有一天不管是法務部或司法院資料中心全部被牽住了資料都收掉了我看你裡面的犯人要怎麼樣要被告也要怎麼樣全部大家都不在意\n\n06:33.146 --> 06:37.732\n我曾經去想過這樣的一個問題啦那所以其實就是一個備援的制度過去就資本嘛你現在都數位化嘛那所以部長你的想法是說現在全部我們的覆蓋率百分之百對一定要至少關鍵核心之下一定要異地存放跟異地備援\n\n06:50.507 --> 06:56.191\n那這個做了就不錯了年度要演練所以沒有問題就對了那很好啊那我接下來要請教一個問題就是說我們現在談說電腦化的一個測試考選部你在115年度學習部部長請回\n\n07:07.920 --> 07:33.393\n一百一十五年度要擴大辦理新增的驗光師驗光生還有第三次護理師還有司法官跟律師的第二次這個方向都對代表國家邁向一個數位的一個時代但是我要請問的就是說這些考區裡面我們有沒有去做過壓力測試或模擬演練如果發生技術故障有沒有明確應變的SOP來請保長你回跟委員報告有但是所以我們現在其實最\n\n07:34.193 --> 07:57.630\n最主要就是要處理私立二因為私立二是深論題那而且它是基本上是競爭性的考試所以你們全部都有私立二最重要要處理的那個它的演練過程要避免有電力異常所以我們會在私立二我們會有核心市場我們核心市場考試的時候會全部被發電機我都沒什麼要相信\n\n07:58.740 --> 08:23.611\n我可以請委員到時候來看我們現在建立國家電腦的市場裡面你現在金門也有啦那我看從台北考區桃園新竹台中台南高雄屏東花蓮金門也都有啦我要請教就是說金門可以離島嘛不要這樣奔波嘛台東為什麼沒有\n\n08:26.074 --> 08:45.560\n主要是他的學校他缺乏可以讓我們設置這個市場的學校所以我們的要求就是說你必須要在最好是在同一個資訊大樓有足夠的電腦我覺得這樣就不對了我覺得這樣就不對了考卷部我們也去補助了很多大學敢設置電腦市場\n\n08:47.490 --> 09:11.638\n台東也有台東大學這樣我覺得怎麼好像是你缺了台東這個就不太對你現在拿了200台電腦去嘛那個是要建置整個行動化電腦市場其實那規格老實說比一般的反而規格更高那當然我的意思就是說缺台東我就覺得不對\n\n09:13.118 --> 09:34.751\n因為他也有蘭嶼啊他也有列島啊也有這些離島的考生他必須要去應試啊那你這一次你說電腦市場裡面你給台東考區你給他兩百台電腦不是給他是我們直接去那裡設一個行動你設了你如果要停電呢你如果斷線呢筆電最不怕停電筆電是這樣對我們每一個筆電會配兩到三個電源你如果斷線呢\n\n09:39.233 --> 09:44.075\n筆電當然他未必是要插電啦電腦有膠當然就可以啦但是問題我的意思是萬一斷線又一設備出問題那你怎麼辦我要說的就是說他畢竟跟國家電腦市場來做比較的話對考生權益來講的話他還是不夠周延啦\n\n09:59.860 --> 10:17.794\n跟委員報告我們的筆電的行動一定是完全按照我們現在的所有的這個規格但是如果說能夠有學校來提供固定位置當然更好所以如果說在這一點的話就是說有辦法能夠有學校來出現來合格的一個學校\n\n10:19.045 --> 10:33.204\n非常樂觀其成我們不要只說樂觀其成啦我是認為說這個講法都會覺得說好像讓台東去自生自滅啦你要到大學裡面如果有那個比較好的設備啊我考選部加我當然樂觀其成這樣怎麼好\n\n10:35.968 --> 10:41.251\n以國家電腦市場來講的話針對全國各地的考生他權益站在考選部的立場你要一併去跟他做保障你國家要輸的話要輸的話台東要看你喔看你自己喔你自己如果更進步台北的設備如果更好考選部我在這裡樂觀其成喔好弄一個我覺得這個態度不好\n\n11:01.007 --> 11:21.137\n每一個台北來電腦他們到設備的時候你們就會去補助他設置這個國家電腦市場啊所以站台上我會覺得偏鄉的地方用這種臨時的方案這樣子硬撐對整個公職或者說專業認證的一些考試對這些考生來講的話\n\n11:25.558 --> 11:53.143\n更不好的就是說你國家電腦的一個市場這個是指個數位國家的一個基本建設我認為那是一個投資建設的話我們在那邊講啊要智能政府啊智能政府阿嘎吉全台灣大家都智能電都政府台東不用變智能的一個政府要智能的政府我看我們就從智慧考試開始好不好\n\n11:55.679 --> 11:59.488\n我簡單補充一下第一個就是說我們對電腦市場的設置\n\n12:03.157 --> 12:28.364\n考試院的資源很有限他可以投資基本的設備但是他還需要學校本身有足夠的電腦教室那現在在台東用行動的這個方式來處理其實也是彌補這個當地資源的不足這是考選部的努力那委員希望能夠有一個穩定的比如說在那邊設置一個就是固定的這個電腦市場的話那看怎麼樣有爭取到更多的資源我們一起來努力\n\n12:29.204 --> 12:47.436\n秘書長我的概念不只這樣不只是說那個地方的設備把它弄好是我們政府的政策你要推數位化的話偏鄉你就不能把它給漏掉你要智能政府你要數位化你說靠一腳缺了一腳\n\n12:48.975 --> 13:08.971\n這樣不好啦對制度的一個投資這不是浪費啦更何況這是政府在對我們一直在談數位的一個轉型結果你讓偏鄉的考生沒有辦法站在同一條起跑線上我認為這個政府要趕快去做一個改善好不好把他當成重要的事情啦給他欠一件啦那錢不會花多少啦秘書長保證你來想一個辦法你不可以那我告訴你\n\n13:15.336 --> 13:42.290\n這附近兩個灶圍都夠閃亮的都停泥了我跟王朝的都停泥台東緊衝一下好不好可以嗎這個我們再去跟您報告和緊衝衝數位政府偏鄉的地方沒有跟上這個就是假的那是國家對制度的一個投資我們把這個整個數位政府高唱露營結果說那個地方台東人跟你講說你唬爛我這邊又沒有不好好不好好謝謝\n\n13:44.386 --> 13:46.342\n謝謝莊委員我也非常支持莊委員的建議\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.533,"end":12.637,"text":"謝謝主席有請我們考試院劉秘書長還有考選部劉部長全序部我們司部長委員長"},{"start":23.72,"end":40.92,"text":"民務長還有兩位部長我想我延續剛剛有委員提到的問題再來追問你像我們這一次的預算中心有提到這個是公務人員高資低用這個人數我看剛剛召委他也很關心"},{"start":41.821,"end":69.602,"text":"但是呢這個預算中心這種寫法會產生很大的一個誤解啦有時候會造成說我領比較高的薪水然後去降調這好像有點偷懶這個我們在鄉下其實我們碰到很多很多人是因為啊我就沒有這個在職場上沒有這樣的一個職缺或者說我就很想回到我自己的故鄉有的人夫妻相隔兩地啊其實很重要的一個觀念"},{"start":71.009,"end":86.158,"text":"這個反而去降調的人在我所碰到的一個服務案件的案例裡面常常都是對職場上是最負責任的人對制度負責我要到其他的地方去我只好降調"},{"start":87.862,"end":102.48,"text":"這個對制度就是負責他也對他的家庭負責我要照顧我的父母親我要照顧我的家庭因素很多我反而會覺得說升官 升到最高的人"},{"start":103.749,"end":118.539,"text":"官場未必就只有升官你專業能力被肯定當然是升官可是很多性盡之徒都升官他未必是有責任的而這是降調的人他是更有責任默默的貢獻出他的一個專業所以我反而會覺得說這個預算中心這種寫法這個只是一語之鑑那但是本身有個看法"},{"start":125.547,"end":142.514,"text":"這預算中心點出這樣一個問題那是不是我們也應該去檢討目前降調制度它的一個考慮去設置一個制度說如何去當作植物的一個轉換"},{"start":143.934,"end":170.709,"text":"或者說彈性配置的一個制度出來讓這個降調的人他變成說他又不失去他的專業還有對整個他職務上這樣的一個熱忱為這個職場來做出貢獻我不曉得三位的看法是怎麼樣謝謝委員對這個議題的關心特別來自南台灣我理解"},{"start":171.61,"end":185.274,"text":"常常碰到啊所以我剛剛有回答說這個報告本身可能寫事實但是有很多複雜的原因啦所以對於降調的人本身很多降調會減錢耶會 會有的時候就沒有主管家級啦或者說沒有專業家級啦會"},{"start":190.995,"end":208.292,"text":"每個個案不一樣我應該這樣講可能在不同地區去做降調或者你降調到學校或降調到行政機關這樣都是沒有人的選擇啦應該這樣講啦所以啦我的意思是說預算中心講也不是全部都不對那翁委員關心的也不是不對但只是說我們要怎麼樣來設計出一個制度讓說"},{"start":213.417,"end":220.745,"text":"我就有這樣的一個專長可是呢我又沒有這樣的一個職缺我又必須要去降調這個就可惜了你有沒有覺得我們公務體系裡面應該有一個制度我們是有一個事求人人求事的公開找人的制度都會上網啦是就在 那是那個"},{"start":234.898,"end":262.431,"text":"蘇俊榮任市長他們那個apply一個市求人人求事其實很多公務人員要找缺他都一定要公告他就去那邊看但重點是現在的結果就是導出預算中心給你點出有這麼多人去降調還是要想辦法解決啦好不好好我們會再繼續來是的好好地研議看看啦那我想啊要另外一個問題要請教就是說韓國現在一個國營的資料中心期會齁"},{"start":263.686,"end":286.181,"text":"那結果呢這個造成19萬名公務人員的資料全數就遺失這顯示這其實就是說他這整個數位的基礎建設缺乏備援跟災難的復原的一個機制這場火裡面他不是只有燒掉伺服器燒出了制度上的漏洞我看他這次647個系統裡面說只有20倍的有災難備援的一個計畫這個其實不是只有韓國的問題"},{"start":294.248,"end":300.885,"text":"這個是全世界政府的一個警訊所以我要請教我們考試院的說我們的資通的韌性"},{"start":304.447,"end":315.271,"text":"我們考試院跟全序部還有考選部我們現在在推動全面的一個數位化這個方向我相信大家都知道很正確但是我們這個系統我們有沒有安全這也就是說我們這些國家級的一個系統裡面有沒有定期的一個災難的一個復原的一個演練那備援系統的復原"},{"start":326.636,"end":343.972,"text":"它的覆蓋率到底會是多少 會不會像韓國那樣 要收了 一個收了之後要六七百個 還要存二十幾個 變成它覆蓋率就這麼的少那意思就是說 世界上韓國這樣 只有幾個系統有備援其他好像都裸奔一樣 請具體回答"},{"start":346.207,"end":364.664,"text":"考選部是那個治安A級單位意思是我們必須每年接受是全國最高等級的那個檢視那基本上委員所說的大概是幾個原則1D存放 1D備援所以覆蓋率是百分之百我們基本上我們的關鍵核心資料一定必須做到1D存放跟1D備援"},{"start":366.151,"end":388.303,"text":"異地就是一定要在不同的地方我在當律師的時候 我常常跟當事人大家想一想 有天不順的監獄裡面關那麼多人訴訟階段有那麼多人 那麼多犯罪的嫌疑人那有一天 不管是法務部或司法院資料中心全部被牽住了 資料都收掉了我看你裡面的犯人要怎麼樣要被告也要怎麼樣 全部大家都不在意"},{"start":393.146,"end":397.732,"text":"我曾經去想過這樣的一個問題啦那所以其實就是一個備援的制度過去就資本嘛你現在都數位化嘛那所以部長你的想法是說現在全部我們的覆蓋率百分之百對 一定要至少關鍵核心之下一定要異地存放跟異地備援"},{"start":410.507,"end":416.191,"text":"那這個做了就不錯了年度要演練所以沒有問題就對了那很好啊那我接下來要請教一個問題就是說我們現在談說電腦化的一個測試考選部你在115年度學習部部長請回"},{"start":427.92,"end":453.393,"text":"一百一十五年度要擴大辦理新增的驗光師 驗光生還有第三次護理師還有司法官跟律師的第二次這個方向都對代表國家邁向一個數位的一個時代但是我要請問的就是說這些考區裡面我們有沒有去做過壓力測試或模擬演練如果發生技術故障有沒有明確應變的SOP來 請保長你回跟委員報告 有但是所以我們現在其實最"},{"start":454.193,"end":477.63,"text":"最主要就是要處理私立二因為私立二是深論題那而且它是基本上是競爭性的考試所以你們全部都有私立二最重要要處理的那個它的演練過程要避免有電力異常所以我們會在私立二我們會有核心市場我們核心市場考試的時候會全部被發電機我都沒什麼要相信"},{"start":478.74,"end":503.611,"text":"我可以請委員到時候來看我們現在建立國家電腦的市場裡面你現在金門也有啦那我看從台北考區 桃園 新竹 台中 台南 高雄屏東 花蓮金門也都有啦我要請教就是說金門可以離島嘛不要這樣奔波嘛台東為什麼沒有"},{"start":506.074,"end":525.56,"text":"主要是他的學校他缺乏可以讓我們設置這個市場的學校所以我們的要求就是說你必須要在最好是在同一個資訊大樓有足夠的電腦我覺得這樣就不對了我覺得這樣就不對了考卷部我們也去補助了很多大學敢設置電腦市場"},{"start":527.49,"end":551.638,"text":"台東也有台東大學這樣我覺得怎麼好像是你缺了台東這個就不太對你現在拿了200台電腦去嘛那個是要建置整個行動化電腦市場其實那規格老實說比一般的反而規格更高那當然我的意思就是說缺台東我就覺得不對"},{"start":553.118,"end":574.751,"text":"因為他也有蘭嶼啊他也有列島啊也有這些離島的考生他必須要去應試啊那你這一次你說電腦市場裡面你給台東考區你給他兩百台電腦不是給他 是我們直接去那裡設一個行動你設了 你如果要停電呢你如果斷線呢筆電最不怕停電筆電是這樣 對我們每一個筆電會配兩到三個電源你如果斷線呢"},{"start":579.233,"end":584.075,"text":"筆電當然他未必是要插電啦電腦有膠當然就可以啦但是問題我的意思是萬一斷線又一設備出問題那你怎麼辦我要說的就是說他畢竟跟國家電腦市場來做比較的話對考生權益來講的話他還是不夠周延啦"},{"start":599.86,"end":617.794,"text":"跟委員報告我們的筆電的行動一定是完全按照我們現在的所有的這個規格但是如果說能夠有學校來提供固定位置當然更好所以如果說在這一點的話就是說有辦法能夠有學校來出現來合格的一個學校"},{"start":619.045,"end":633.204,"text":"非常樂觀其成我們不要只說樂觀其成啦我是認為說這個講法都會覺得說好像讓台東去自生自滅啦你要到大學裡面如果有那個比較好的設備啊我考選部加我當然樂觀其成這樣怎麼好"},{"start":635.968,"end":641.251,"text":"以國家電腦市場來講的話 針對全國各地的考生他權益站在考選部的立場 你要一併去跟他做保障你國家要輸的話 要輸的話 台東要看你喔 看你自己喔你自己如果更進步 台北的設備如果更好 考選部我在這裡 樂觀其成喔好 弄一個 我覺得這個態度不好"},{"start":661.007,"end":681.137,"text":"每一個台北來電腦 他們到設備的時候你們就會去補助他設置這個國家電腦市場啊所以站台上 我會覺得偏鄉的地方用這種臨時的方案這樣子硬撐對整個公職或者說專業認證的一些考試對這些考生來講的話"},{"start":685.558,"end":713.143,"text":"更不好的就是說你國家電腦的一個市場這個是指個數位國家的一個基本建設我認為那是一個投資建設的話 我們在那邊講啊要智能政府啊智能政府阿嘎吉全台灣大家都智能電 都政府台東不用變智能的一個政府要智能的政府我看我們就從智慧考試開始 好不好"},{"start":715.679,"end":719.488,"text":"我簡單補充一下第一個就是說我們對電腦市場的設置"},{"start":723.157,"end":748.364,"text":"考試院的資源很有限他可以投資基本的設備但是他還需要學校本身有足夠的電腦教室那現在在台東用行動的這個方式來處理其實也是彌補這個當地資源的不足這是考選部的努力那委員希望能夠有一個穩定的比如說在那邊設置一個就是固定的這個電腦市場的話那看怎麼樣有爭取到更多的資源我們一起來努力"},{"start":749.204,"end":767.436,"text":"秘書長 我的概念不只這樣不只是說那個地方的設備把它弄好是我們政府的政策你要推數位化的話偏鄉你就不能把它給漏掉你要智能政府 你要數位化你說靠一腳 缺了一腳"},{"start":768.975,"end":788.971,"text":"這樣不好啦對制度的一個投資這不是浪費啦更何況這是政府在對我們一直在談數位的一個轉型結果你讓偏鄉的考生沒有辦法站在同一條起跑線上我認為這個政府要趕快去做一個改善好不好把他當成重要的事情啦給他欠一件啦那錢不會花多少啦秘書長 保證你來想一個辦法你不可以 那我告訴你"},{"start":795.336,"end":822.29,"text":"這附近兩個灶圍 都夠閃亮的 都停泥了我跟王朝的都停泥 台東緊衝一下 好不好可以嗎這個我們再去跟您報告和緊衝衝 數位政府偏鄉的地方沒有跟上 這個就是假的那是國家對制度的一個投資我們把這個整個數位政府高唱露營結果說 那個地方 台東人跟你講說你唬爛 我這邊又沒有 不好 好不好好 謝謝"},{"start":824.386,"end":826.342,"text":"謝謝莊委員我也非常支持莊委員的建議"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":781,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（10時37分）謝謝主席，有請考試院劉秘書長、考選部劉部長、銓敘部施部長。"],["主席：請劉秘書長、劉部長、施部長。"],["劉秘書長建忻：委員早。"],["莊委員瑞雄：秘書長還有兩位部長，我想延續剛剛有委員提到的問題再來追問，像我們這一次的預算中心有提到公務人員高資低用的人數，剛剛召委也很關心，但是預算中心這種寫法會產生一個很大的誤解，有時候會造成我領比較高的薪水，然後去降調，這好像有點偷懶。這個在鄉下其實我們碰到很多，很多人是因為在職場上沒有這樣的職缺，或是我就很想回到我自己的故鄉，有的人夫妻相隔兩地。其實這有很重要的一個觀念，在我所碰到的服務案件的案例裡面，這個去降調的人反而常常都是對職場上最負責任的人，對制度負責，我要到其他的地方去，我只好降調，這個對制度就是負責，他也對他的家庭負責，我要照顧我的父母親、我要照顧我的家庭，因素很多。我反而會覺得，升官升到最高的人，官場未必只有升官，你的專業能力被肯定當然是升官，可是很多倖進之徒，升官未必是有責任的，反而是降調的人，他是更有責任默默在貢獻他的專業，所以我反而會覺得預算中心的這種寫法只是一隅之見。","但是本席有一個看法，預算中心點出這樣的問題，是不是我們也應該去檢討目前降調的制度，對於如何做職務的轉換或者彈性配置設計一個制度出來，讓這個降調的人又不失去他的專業，還有對職務上的熱忱，為這個職場來做出貢獻，不曉得三位的看法是怎麼樣？"],["施部長能傑：謝謝委員對這個議題的關心，特別委員來自南臺灣，我理解。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我就常常碰到。"],["施部長能傑：我理解，所以我剛剛有回答說，這個報告本身可能寫的是事實，但是有很多複雜的原因，對於降調的人本身來說，在南部有的是要回去照顧家庭……"],["莊委員瑞雄：降調會讓薪水減少。"],["施部長能傑：有的是要回去照顧家庭，都有啦！"],["莊委員瑞雄：會，有的就沒有主管加給或者沒有專業加給。"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：錢一定會少。"],["施部長能傑：每個個案不一樣，我應該這樣講，可能在不同地區去做降調，或者降調到學校或行政機關，都是不同的選擇，應該是這樣講。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以我的意思是，預算中心講的也不是全部都不對。"],["施部長能傑：沒錯。"],["莊委員瑞雄：翁委員關心的也不是不對，只是我們要怎麼樣設計出一個制度，否則有相關專長的人只因為沒有相應的職缺而必須降調，這個就可惜了，你不覺得我們公務體系裡面應該有一個制度嗎？"],["施部長能傑：我們有一個事求人、人求事公開找人的制度，都會上網。蘇俊榮人事長他們有operate一個事求人、人求事的網站，其實很多公務人員要找缺，都一定要公告，他們就去那裡看。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，但重點是現在的結果就是導出預算中心點出有這麼多人降調的問題，所以還是要想辦法解決，好不好？"],["施部長能傑：好，我們會再繼續看看這個問題。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是，研議看看。"],["施部長能傑：好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：另外一個問題要請教的是，韓國國營的資料中心日前發生火災，結果造成19萬名公務員的資料全數遺失，顯示整個數位基礎建設缺乏備援及災難復原機制。這場火不是只有燒掉伺服器，還燒出了制度上的漏洞，在647個系統裡面，僅有28個有災難備援計畫。其實不是只有韓國有這個問題，這是全世界政府的警訊，所以我要請教考試院，我們的資通韌性準備好了嗎？考試院、銓敘部及考選部現在在推動全面數位化，大家都知道這個方向很正確，但是這個系統是否安全？我們的國家級系統有沒有定期的災難復原演練？備援系統的覆蓋率到底是多少？會不會像韓國那樣，一場火災之後，六百多個系統只剩下二十幾個，覆蓋率變得這麼少？這次韓國只有幾個系統有備援，其他好像都裸奔一樣。請具體回答。"],["劉部長孟奇：考選部是資安A級單位，意思是我們必須每年接受全國最高等級的檢視。基本上委員所說的大概是幾個原則：異地存放、異地備援，然後……"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以覆蓋率是百分之百？"],["劉部長孟奇：基本上我們的關鍵核心資料一定必須做到異地存放及異地備援。異地就是一定要在不同的地方。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我在當律師的時候，常常跟當事人想一些「有孔無榫」的。像監獄裡面關那麼多人，訴訟階段有那麼多犯罪嫌疑人，不管是法務部或司法院，如果有一天資料中心全部的資料都遺失、燒掉了，裡面的犯人該怎麼辦？被告該怎麼辦？不就大家全部都沒事，在外面到處晃？我曾經想過這樣的問題，這其實就是備援的制度，過去是紙本，現在都數位化。部長，你的想法是現在我們全部的覆蓋率是百分之百？"],["劉部長孟奇：對，一定要，至少關鍵核心資料一定要異地存放及異地備援。"],["莊委員瑞雄：這個做的就不錯了。"],["劉部長孟奇：然後年度要演練一次。"],["莊委員瑞雄：對，所以沒有問題就對了？"],["劉部長孟奇：對，我們是資安A級，一定要演練很久。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那很好，銓敘部部長請回。我接下來要請教一個問題，我們現在談電腦化的測試，考選部在115年度要擴大辦理新增的驗光師、驗光生、第三次護理師考試，以及司法官及律師第二試，這個方向都對，代表國家邁向數位化的時代，但是我要請問的是，這些考區有沒有做過壓力測試或模擬演練？如果發生技術故障，有沒有臨機應變的SOP？請部長回答。"],["劉部長孟奇：跟委員報告，有，所以我們現在其實最主要就是要處理司律二，因為司律二是申論題，而且基本上是競爭性的考試。"],["莊委員瑞雄：所以你們全部都有？"],["劉部長孟奇：司律二現在最重要處理的演練是要避免有電力異常，所以我們在司律二會有核心試場，核心試場考試的時候會全部備發電機。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我都不太相信。"],["劉部長孟奇：我可以請委員到時候來看。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我為什麼不太相信，你知道嗎？你要想，我們要建立國家電腦的試場，現在金門也有，我看從臺北、桃園、新竹、臺中、臺南、高雄、屏東、花蓮到金門都有。我要請教的是，金門是離島，設立的目的是為了不讓人奔波，那臺東為什麼沒有，臺東也有兩個離島？"],["劉部長孟奇：主要是它的學校缺乏可以讓我們設置這個試場的學校，因為我們的要求是最好在同一個資訊大樓有足夠的電腦，目前臺東比較缺乏這樣的學校。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我覺得這樣就不對了。考選部也補助了很多大學，幫他們設置電腦試場，臺東也有臺東大學，我的感覺是你們缺了臺東，這個就不太對。你現在拿了200臺電腦去嘛？"],["劉部長孟奇：那個是要建置整個行動化電腦試場，老實說那個規格比一般的反而更高、更安全。"],["莊委員瑞雄：那當然，我的意思是缺了臺東，我就覺得不對，因為它也有蘭嶼、綠島，這些離島的考生必須去應試。你說你們這一次電腦試場給臺東考區200臺電腦……"],["劉部長孟奇：不是給它，是我們直接去那裡設一個行動試場。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你設了以後，萬一停電、斷線呢？"],["劉部長孟奇：筆電最不怕停電。"],["莊委員瑞雄：真的嗎？"],["劉部長孟奇：對，我們每一個筆電會配2到3個……"],["莊委員瑞雄：如果斷線呢？筆電未必要插電，只要電力足夠當然就可以。"],["劉部長孟奇：對。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我的意思是，萬一斷線、設備又出問題，你怎麼辦？我要說的是，畢竟它跟國家電腦試場來做比較的話，對考生權益來講，它還是不夠周延。"],["劉部長孟奇：跟委員報告，我們的筆電型號一定是完全按照現在所有的規格，但是如果能夠有學校提供固定位置當然更好，所以如果有辦法能夠有學校出線、有合格的學校，我們非常樂觀其成。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們不要只說「樂觀其成」，我認為這個講法會讓人覺得好像讓臺東自生自滅，你說如果當地的大學有比較好的設備，你們考選部當然「樂觀其成」，這樣怎麼好？以國家電腦試場來講，為了全國各地考生的權益，站在考選部的立場，你要一併加以保障。國家要數位化，卻要等到臺東自己比較進步、大學裡面的設備比較好以後，考選部對於在臺東設電腦試場「樂觀其成」，再在當地設一個，我覺得這個態度不好。我看每一個大學的設備如果合格的時候，你們就會去補助他們設置國家電腦試場，所以目前只缺臺東沒有，我會覺得偏鄉的地方用這種臨時的方案硬撐，對整個公職或者專業認證考試的考生來講是不好的；更不好的是，國家電腦試場是數位國家的基本建設，我認為那是一個投資。我們在講智能政府，哪有這麼奇怪，全臺灣都是智能政府，唯有臺東不必變成智能政府？要有智能的政府，我看我們就從智慧考試開始，好不好？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我簡單補充一下。第一個，關於我們對電腦試場的設置，考試院的資源很有限，可以投資基本的設備，但是還需要學校本身有足夠的電腦教室。現在在臺東用行動的方式來處理，其實也是彌補當地資源的不足，這是考選部的努力。委員希望能夠在那邊設置一個穩定、固定的電腦試場的話，看怎麼樣爭取到更多的資源，我們一起來努力。"],["莊委員瑞雄：不只、不只，秘書長，我的概念不只這樣。不只是把那個地方的設備弄好，而是我們政府的政策要推數位化的話，就不能把偏鄉漏掉，你要推智能政府、數位化，卻缺了一角，這樣不好。對制度的投資不是浪費，更何況政府一直在談數位轉型，結果你讓偏鄉的考生沒有辦法站在同一條起跑線上，我認為政府要針對這個部分趕快改善，好不好？把它當成重要的事情，只缺這一部分，那個錢不會花很多，秘書長、部長，你們要想一個辦法，我跟你說，立法院這個會期兩個召委都有夠善良的，都挺你啦！我跟翁召委都挺你，臺東的部分趕快弄一下，好不好？可以嗎？"],["劉秘書長建忻：委員，這個我們再去跟你報告和……"],["莊委員瑞雄：趕快弄一弄。數位政府，偏鄉的地方沒有跟上，這個就是假的，那個是國家對制度的一個投資。我們把這整個數位政府高唱入雲，結果臺東人跟你講：你唬爛，我這邊又沒有。這不好！謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝莊委員，我也非常支持莊委員的建議，我想應該要把所謂數位普及、數位化的程度，偏鄉跟都市都要一併的拉齊，所以也希望考選部、考試院能夠努力加把勁，謝謝。","接下來請沈發惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":190,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","吳宗憲","王義川","王鴻薇","林倩綺","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","吳思瑤","張啓楷","陳培瑜","羅智強","蔡易餘","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長、銓敘部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業\n務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00002"}}}