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00:00:27,238\n主席麻煩部長來有請部長林委員早部長早部長這次那個黑心豬大腸的事件政府的應對跟裁罰還算快速可是我想問一個核心的問題也就是說\n\n2\n00:00:28,388 --> 00:00:47,737\n我們現在的食安稽查人力到底夠不夠為什麼這樣問從監察院十年前的報告到去年的蘇丹紅事件再到前天地方政府的說法其實問題其實實際上是沒有改變像台北市說因為他們的稽查人員離職率高達四成而且新北市議員換算\n\n3\n00:00:50,218 --> 00:01:07,448\n每一位稽查員一年要處理800件案件那表示人力不足大家都是知道事實上是一個很關鍵的問題那今天的標題也是人力不足可是從今天的專報內容來看是陷入一個出事之後再補一點點的人力的一個惡性循環\n\n4\n00:01:08,448 --> 00:01:27,388\n所以今天專報部長你認為這是治標還是治本為什麼地方政府說靠醫化補能力我也不知道靠醫化補能力是什麼意思衛福部說邊境用的大數據抽檢會越來越精準那食藥署也說這次的現在機制已經非常完整可是我非常擔心的是\n\n5\n00:01:28,129 --> 00:01:47,108\n是不是下次出事的時候又說是人力不足為何不五大措施也就是你的實案五大措施都很好可是不論是在加強抽檢還是全面的溯源每一項都是需要人力的所以想問請部長明確的回答中央跟地方的實案稽查人力到底夠不夠\n\n6\n00:01:48,430 --> 00:02:08,498\n當然在這個人力的部分我們持續去強化包含人力就是這個多少人還有稽查的方法那個能力我們也一併要去提升所以我們也會辦一些訓練研習等等的來提升它的效率當然更重要的如何精準管理\n\n7\n00:02:09,218 --> 00:02:36,699\n更重要所以我們現在串聯各種的資訊流做這個大數據分析來精準管理看看能不能夠所以你就覺得這E化就能夠完全解決人力的問題嗎它能夠強化我們的這個管理的能力可是地方長期就是人力不足的問題中央補助獎勵是一回事不能就這樣子擺著不處理那財化法整個地方的分配款增加之後是不是要求\n\n8\n00:02:37,984 --> 00:02:56,438\n地方優先來增加人力來做改善好那最後也請衛福部是不是提供一份那個比較完整的說明跟規劃給我們好我們那個委員的建議非常好我們會持續透過這個要求這個地方多增編這個死案人力來提升\n\n9\n00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:15,751\n應該事實上他們要增加人力在我們看就是部長審計部針對去年的食安議題的審計報告早就點名了中國的食品未經核准不得輸台可是我們再次看到現況是\n\n10\n00:03:17,152 --> 00:03:45,057\n網路平台夜市照樣有人賣還有人打著個人自用免查驗的名義一次又一次的進口大量未經核可的食品根本就變成假自用真商業那變成我們的食安制度的一個破口根據審計部的報告113年我們就有超過70萬人用這種方式來進口食品而且總量超過350萬公斤而且九成都是食品跟調味料\n\n11\n00:03:45,917 --> 00:04:04,045\n這樣的數量怎麼可能是個人自用呢你們當時回應審計部說會加強網路稽查阻斷未核准的食品流入也會針對頻繁巨量濫用制度設計對策可是現在到114年年底了像我問部長說\n\n12\n00:04:05,906 --> 00:04:16,799\n這一年來制度到底有沒有改善具體的作為又是什麼因為我們直至到現在我們辦公室都還是可以透過這些去買淘寶去買到這些東西所以想問一下\n\n13\n00:04:18,392 --> 00:04:37,243\n對這個委員提的確實是提出了我們現在的痛點就是電商平台的部分就是四面間的查核中國黑心食品或違規的食品那個努力都在查那個都有查到現在就是那個電商平台所以我們也在研議應該要來考慮因為7月16行正有開過一個虛實對應因為如果講虛實對應的話\n\n14\n00:04:44,708 --> 00:05:14,348\n實體是你們食品是你們管的話那就會變成是你們是所以我們也在思考應該要來提出像這個食安法的修法把電商平台的管理納入就好像上一次大院這邊我們通過的這個淹害防治法一樣把那個電商平台一併納入管理那包含它的這個借街啦或者是在這個電商平台上販賣的業者或平台的提供者都應該克與相當的責任\n\n15\n00:05:14,748 --> 00:05:32,082\n部長是不是儘快因為這些東西一直進來事實上是對我們國人事實上是沒有保障的那也請衛福部給我相關的確確執行的數據跟成效委員好這邊是要數這邊多一點點小小的補充我們這一電商平台其實上個會期裡面有同樣的議題我們被\n\n16\n00:05:33,503 --> 00:05:51,441\n提醒所以我們已經把相關的科與電商平台的義務跟責任他必須要確定這個產品是否違法是否合法等等的落地的你們都有管沒有落地的你都沒辦法管的話我覺得現在就是非落地的是不是要一併管我覺得才有辦法解決問題\n\n17\n00:05:53,503 --> 00:06:11,377\n在我們看就是食品安全不能只停留在查禁有害物質更重要的是關乎到孩子的健康從第一次兒權公約的審查到四年前的國際委員再三提醒台灣政府都被要求要重視兒童肥胖的問題\n\n18\n00:06:11,997 --> 00:06:33,036\n你自己國建署也一直在有這樣的宣導可是幾年下來我們的成績單沒有太大變化從第一次國際委員到第二次明年要交國家報告第三次了我不知道你們怎麼去回應這件事情因為台灣兒童的肥胖連年列名我們的前段班像男童事實上是第六名\n\n19\n00:06:34,437 --> 00:06:55,030\n女童是第十二名肥胖真的是上次前段班每四位小學生就有一位體重超重國中生更超過三成的超重兒童糖尿病的狀況也令人擔憂兒童肥胖牽扯到生活作息運動習慣等面向可是回到你們自己來看國健署一直說你們\n\n20\n00:06:55,911 --> 00:07:14,591\n要減少兒童肥胖拒絕零食遠離高熱量高油高鹽高熱量可是問題是現在市場上都賣這些東西的時候那這就是你們應該負責要負責的主戰場所以台灣的兒童的健康警報早就響起部長你怎麼去看現在\n\n21\n00:07:15,371 --> 00:07:42,797\n食品安全的政策跟肥胖問題的關聯性政府到底有沒有要準備去解決這個長年沒有解決的危機確實委員提出是一個非常重要的一點就是肥胖是未來就是孩子的時候的肥胖跟未來他的代謝症候群或相關三高是有關聯性的所以這個兒童肥胖的問題我們會積極的納入在我們健康台灣這個下面\n\n22\n00:07:44,517 --> 00:08:13,380\n另外一个就是营养从小如何建立这个正确的营养观念还有这个运动这两个可能要一起来来并进才有办法就是说部长这是大概都是全球要面对到的一个挑战联合国已经提醒说食品产业以利润为导向我们的饮食环境对孩子并不友善所以刚刚讲说你们接下来会去努力在健康台湾这边可是超加工的食品高糖高脂高盐\n\n23\n00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:35,708\n低營養被證實跟兒少肥胖糖尿病注意力發展問題都高度相關對孕婦跟胎兒也有長期的影響這是公共衛生的一個警訊日韓歐盟都用法規限制食品廣告跟規範校園周邊而且要求食品要更清楚標示以外也要更易懂\n\n24\n00:08:36,548 --> 00:08:56,064\n那WHO在2016年早就建議說要課徵我們的糖稅韓國也正在討論加稅並用稅制來誘導我們的健康的選擇那所以想問部長台灣會跟進嗎因為除了無糖飲料最近那個降稅那我們是否考慮用稅制來改善兒童的食品環境\n\n25\n00:08:57,084 --> 00:09:15,813\n當然這個委員提到的是這個可能有些國家在實施的糖稅或者是糖捐這種健康捐的概念不過我們第一步先從這個簡明標示讓大家容易這個消費者容易懂我們現在的標示有的時候比較專業\n\n26\n00:09:18,935 --> 00:09:35,608\n從專業的角度是比較專業一點但是讓消費者來講不容易明白到底這個含量這個成分是OK不OK是健康不健康那部長食品安全衛生管理法會不會增訂條文要求\n\n27\n00:09:36,188 --> 00:09:55,349\n超加工食品额外标示简明的你刚刚讲你们会开始做分级标示那会再入法去要求吗那部长也从额少的肥胖议题的角度上你如何看待我们的营养及健康饮食促进法上路一年了成效如何\n\n28\n00:09:59,011 --> 00:10:05,676\n確實剛上路我們目前所做的事情是先去擴大營養教育營養的認知的提升當然對於\n\n29\n00:10:15,095 --> 00:10:28,280\n國人的這個重視我想還有一些需要在我們更努力的地方確實所以那衛福部有沒有研究在台灣的兒少飲食習慣研究超加工食品對兒童跟孕婦的風險\n\n30\n00:10:29,693 --> 00:10:48,173\n有做這方面的嗎目前據我的了解是還沒有這方面的研究我們也期待你說對兒少跟家長的教育宣導跟廣告的管制也要拜託你們持續加強更積極讓家長也能夠去了解那這些政策我們也期待\n\n31\n00:10:48,713 --> 00:11:13,849\n你們應該讓兒少一起共同來參與因為也讓他們對於我們的政府的一些政策能夠了解那接下來是不是請衛福部也把這些完整的一個因應政策跟法規再提供給我們我們未來會讓國健署跟食藥署一起來合作提升這個部分那部長最後一個問題這個非常的重要雖然我們的召委已經站起來我們還是花一點時間\n\n32\n00:11:15,170 --> 00:11:36,906\n剛我們談到的兒童參與這是兒權公約的最核心的精神也是為父母主責的業務那十年來我們都有不少進步像行政院兒委會都有兒少參與也是全世界絕無僅有的成果那可是這幾年我們的制度都有沒有偏離初衷像台中最近發生的就兒少代表這件事情為例\n\n33\n00:11:37,606 --> 00:12:01,116\n去年台中市政府二月就公告兒少代表參與的規則跟六月完成遴選那兒少也收到通知了因為他們會前一年然後呢遴選進來之後開始賠例到今年就會開始去執行可是今年一月市府卻片面修改規則四月突然通知這些兒少說你們不能參加政府的會議\n\n34\n00:12:01,696 --> 00:12:26,774\n你去年已經是通知他說你已經是入企了結果今年說你不能進來還宣稱說這是依照中央的規範是中央規範跟兒權公約整個過程完全沒有跟兒少討論也沒有任何事前說明所以孩子手中的這個入企通知一夕之間變成是廢紙我想問部長台中市政府這種依照兒少\n\n35\n00:12:28,756 --> 00:12:53,693\n說依照中央的兒少權法的規範請問中央規範允許這樣的言而無信嗎我們會進一步的了解這個兒權法因為他們有這個設置要點所以兒權會怎麼去運作的程序我們會進一步了解同時會要求台中市政府在下一次我們的兒權\n\n36\n00:12:56,555 --> 00:13:19,888\n那個部裡面有一個兒少的福利與權益推動小組的會來做一個專案的報告所以我不只是要問這件事而是整個整體的體制度所以今天我只是先邀請部長一定要對這件事情表態不能放任地方政府去扭曲兒權公約部長你是否願意承諾全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制\n\n37\n00:13:20,928 --> 00:13:35,738\n你政府要邀請兒少出來要做公共參與卻用這種方法來對待他們那我接著也會辦一場兒少參與權的公聽會也希望衛福部能夠派組織單位能夠來出席和民間跟兒少一起對話\n\n38\n00:13:36,558 --> 00:13:57,483\n我們非常的支持要落實這個CRC的精神讓這個兒少能夠真正的參與各項的這個兒童相關的政策的制定過程所以部長你可不可以先全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制好我們來看一下各縣市政府的規定好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7077\t27238\t主席麻煩部長來有請部長林委員早部長早部長這次那個黑心豬大腸的事件 政府的應對跟裁罰還算快速可是我想問一個核心的問題也就是說\n28388\t47737\t我們現在的食安稽查人力到底夠不夠為什麼這樣問從監察院十年前的報告到去年的蘇丹紅事件再到前天地方政府的說法其實問題其實實際上是沒有改變像台北市說因為他們的稽查人員離職率高達四成而且新北市議員換算\n50218\t67448\t每一位稽查員一年要處理800件案件那表示人力不足大家都是知道事實上是一個很關鍵的問題那今天的標題也是人力不足可是從今天的專報內容來看是陷入一個出事之後再補一點點的人力的一個惡性循環\n68448\t87388\t所以今天專報部長你認為這是治標還是治本為什麼地方政府說靠醫化補能力我也不知道靠醫化補能力是什麼意思衛福部說邊境用的大數據抽檢會越來越精準那食藥署也說這次的現在機制已經非常完整可是我非常擔心的是\n88129\t107108\t是不是下次出事的時候又說是人力不足為何不五大措施也就是你的實案五大措施都很好可是不論是在加強抽檢還是全面的溯源每一項都是需要人力的所以想問請部長明確的回答中央跟地方的實案稽查人力到底夠不夠\n108430\t128498\t當然在這個人力的部分我們持續去強化包含人力就是這個多少人還有稽查的方法那個能力我們也一併要去提升所以我們也會辦一些訓練 研習等等的來提升它的效率當然更重要的如何精準管理\n129218\t156699\t更重要所以我們現在串聯各種的資訊流做這個大數據分析來精準管理看看能不能夠所以你就覺得這E化就能夠完全解決人力的問題嗎它能夠強化我們的這個管理的能力可是地方長期就是人力不足的問題中央補助獎勵是一回事不能就這樣子擺著不處理那財化法整個地方的分配款增加之後是不是要求\n157984\t176438\t地方優先來增加人力來做改善好那最後也請衛福部是不是提供一份那個比較完整的說明跟規劃給我們好我們那個委員的建議非常好我們會持續透過這個要求這個地方多增編這個死案人力來提升\n180000\t195751\t應該事實上他們要增加人力在我們看就是部長審計部針對去年的食安議題的審計報告早就點名了中國的食品未經核准不得輸台可是我們再次看到現況是\n197152\t225057\t網路平台 夜市照樣有人賣還有人打著個人自用免查驗的名義一次又一次的進口大量未經核可的食品根本就變成假自用 真商業那變成我們的食安制度的一個破口根據審計部的報告113年我們就有超過70萬人用這種方式來進口食品而且總量超過350萬公斤而且九成都是食品跟調味料\n225917\t244045\t這樣的數量怎麼可能是個人自用呢你們當時回應審計部說會加強網路稽查阻斷未核准的食品流入也會針對頻繁巨量濫用制度設計對策可是現在到114年年底了像我問部長說\n245906\t256799\t這一年來制度到底有沒有改善具體的作為又是什麼因為我們直至到現在我們辦公室都還是可以透過這些去買淘寶去買到這些東西所以想問一下\n258392\t277243\t對 這個委員提的確實是提出了我們現在的痛點就是電商平台的部分就是四面間的查核中國黑心食品或違規的食品那個努力都在查 那個都有查到現在就是那個電商平台所以我們也在研議應該要來考慮因為7月16行正有開過一個虛實對應因為如果講虛實對應的話\n284708\t314348\t實體是你們 食品是你們管的話那就會變成是你們是 所以我們也在思考應該要來提出像這個食安法的修法把電商平台的管理納入就好像上一次大院這邊我們通過的這個淹害防治法一樣把那個電商平台一併納入管理那包含它的這個借街啦或者是在這個電商平台上販賣的業者或平台的提供者都應該克與相當的責任\n314748\t332082\t部長是不是儘快因為這些東西一直進來事實上是對我們國人事實上是沒有保障的那也請衛福部給我相關的確確執行的數據跟成效委員好這邊是要數這邊多一點點小小的補充我們這一電商平台其實上個會期裡面有同樣的議題我們被\n333503\t351441\t提醒所以我們已經把相關的科與電商平台的義務跟責任他必須要確定這個產品是否違法是否合法等等的落地的你們都有管沒有落地的你都沒辦法管的話我覺得現在就是非落地的是不是要一併管我覺得才有辦法解決問題\n353503\t371377\t在我們看就是 食品安全不能只停留在查禁有害物質更重要的是關乎到孩子的健康從第一次兒權公約的審查到四年前的國際委員再三提醒台灣政府都被要求要重視兒童肥胖的問題\n371997\t393036\t你自己國建署也一直在有這樣的宣導可是幾年下來我們的成績單沒有太大變化從第一次國際委員到第二次明年要交國家報告第三次了我不知道你們怎麼去回應這件事情因為台灣兒童的肥胖連年列名我們的前段班像男童事實上是第六名\n394437\t415030\t女童是第十二名肥胖真的是上次前段班每四位小學生就有一位體重超重國中生更超過三成的超重兒童糖尿病的狀況也令人擔憂兒童肥胖牽扯到生活作息運動習慣等面向可是回到你們自己來看國健署一直說你們\n415911\t434591\t要減少兒童肥胖拒絕零食遠離高熱量高油高鹽高熱量可是問題是現在市場上都賣這些東西的時候那這就是你們應該負責要負責的主戰場所以台灣的兒童的健康警報早就響起部長你怎麼去看現在\n435371\t462797\t食品安全的政策跟肥胖問題的關聯性政府到底有沒有要準備去解決這個長年沒有解決的危機確實委員提出是一個非常重要的一點就是肥胖是未來就是孩子的時候的肥胖跟未來他的代謝症候群或相關三高是有關聯性的所以這個兒童肥胖的問題我們會積極的納入在我們健康台灣這個下面\n464517\t493380\t另外一个就是营养从小如何建立这个正确的营养观念还有这个运动这两个可能要一起来来并进才有办法就是说部长这是大概都是全球要面对到的一个挑战联合国已经提醒说食品产业以利润为导向我们的饮食环境对孩子并不友善所以刚刚讲说你们接下来会去努力在健康台湾这边可是超加工的食品高糖高脂高盐\n493860\t515708\t低營養被證實跟兒少肥胖糖尿病注意力發展問題都高度相關對孕婦跟胎兒也有長期的影響這是公共衛生的一個警訊日韓歐盟都用法規限制食品廣告跟規範校園周邊而且要求食品要更清楚標示以外也要更易懂\n516548\t536064\t那WHO在2016年早就建議說要課徵我們的糖稅韓國也正在討論加稅並用稅制來誘導我們的健康的選擇那所以想問部長台灣會跟進嗎因為除了無糖飲料最近那個降稅那我們是否考慮用稅制來改善兒童的食品環境\n537084\t555813\t當然這個委員提到的是這個可能有些國家在實施的糖稅或者是糖捐這種健康捐的概念不過我們第一步先從這個簡明標示讓大家容易這個消費者容易懂我們現在的標示有的時候比較專業\n558935\t575608\t從專業的角度是比較專業一點但是讓消費者來講不容易明白到底這個含量這個成分是OK不OK是健康不健康那部長食品安全衛生管理法會不會增訂條文要求\n576188\t595349\t超加工食品额外标示简明的你刚刚讲你们会开始做分级标示那会再入法去要求吗那部长也从额少的肥胖议题的角度上你如何看待我们的营养及健康饮食促进法上路一年了成效如何\n599011\t605676\t確實剛上路我們目前所做的事情是先去擴大營養教育營養的認知的提升當然對於\n615095\t628280\t國人的這個重視我想還有一些需要在我們更努力的地方確實所以那衛福部有沒有研究在台灣的兒少飲食習慣研究超加工食品對兒童跟孕婦的風險\n629693\t648173\t有做這方面的嗎目前據我的了解是還沒有這方面的研究我們也期待你說對兒少跟家長的教育宣導跟廣告的管制也要拜託你們持續加強更積極讓家長也能夠去了解那這些政策我們也期待\n648713\t673849\t你們應該讓兒少一起共同來參與因為也讓他們對於我們的政府的一些政策能夠了解那接下來是不是請衛福部也把這些完整的一個因應政策跟法規再提供給我們我們未來會讓國健署跟食藥署一起來合作提升這個部分那部長最後一個問題這個非常的重要雖然我們的召委已經站起來我們還是花一點時間\n675170\t696906\t剛我們談到的兒童參與這是兒權公約的最核心的精神也是為父母主責的業務那十年來我們都有不少進步像行政院兒委會都有兒少參與也是全世界絕無僅有的成果那可是這幾年我們的制度都有沒有偏離初衷像台中最近發生的就兒少代表這件事情為例\n697606\t721116\t去年台中市政府二月就公告兒少代表參與的規則跟六月完成遴選那兒少也收到通知了因為他們會前一年然後呢遴選進來之後開始賠例到今年就會開始去執行可是今年一月市府卻片面修改規則四月突然通知這些兒少說你們不能參加政府的會議\n721696\t746774\t你去年已經是通知他說你已經是入企了結果今年說你不能進來還宣稱說這是依照中央的規範是中央規範跟兒權公約整個過程完全沒有跟兒少討論也沒有任何事前說明所以孩子手中的這個入企通知一夕之間變成是廢紙我想問部長台中市政府這種依照兒少\n748756\t773693\t說依照中央的兒少權法的規範請問中央規範允許這樣的言而無信嗎我們會進一步的了解這個兒權法因為他們有這個設置要點所以兒權會怎麼去運作的程序我們會進一步了解同時會要求台中市政府在下一次我們的兒權\n776555\t799888\t那個部裡面有一個兒少的福利與權益推動小組的會來做一個專案的報告所以我不只是要問這件事而是整個整體的體制度所以今天我只是先邀請部長一定要對這件事情表態不能放任地方政府去扭曲兒權公約部長你是否願意承諾全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制\n800928\t815738\t你政府要邀請兒少出來要做公共參與卻用這種方法來對待他們那我接著也會辦一場兒少參與權的公聽會也希望衛福部能夠派組織單位能夠來出席和民間跟兒少一起對話\n816558\t837483\t我們非常的支持要落實這個CRC的精神讓這個兒少能夠真正的參與各項的這個兒童相關的政策的制定過程所以部長你可不可以先全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制好 我們來看一下各縣市政府的規定好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席麻煩部長來有請部長林委員早部長早部長這次那個黑心豬大腸的事件 政府的應對跟裁罰還算快速可是我想問一個核心的問題也就是說\n我們現在的食安稽查人力到底夠不夠為什麼這樣問從監察院十年前的報告到去年的蘇丹紅事件再到前天地方政府的說法其實問題其實實際上是沒有改變像台北市說因為他們的稽查人員離職率高達四成而且新北市議員換算\n每一位稽查員一年要處理800件案件那表示人力不足大家都是知道事實上是一個很關鍵的問題那今天的標題也是人力不足可是從今天的專報內容來看是陷入一個出事之後再補一點點的人力的一個惡性循環\n所以今天專報部長你認為這是治標還是治本為什麼地方政府說靠醫化補能力我也不知道靠醫化補能力是什麼意思衛福部說邊境用的大數據抽檢會越來越精準那食藥署也說這次的現在機制已經非常完整可是我非常擔心的是\n是不是下次出事的時候又說是人力不足為何不五大措施也就是你的實案五大措施都很好可是不論是在加強抽檢還是全面的溯源每一項都是需要人力的所以想問請部長明確的回答中央跟地方的實案稽查人力到底夠不夠\n當然在這個人力的部分我們持續去強化包含人力就是這個多少人還有稽查的方法那個能力我們也一併要去提升所以我們也會辦一些訓練 研習等等的來提升它的效率當然更重要的如何精準管理\n更重要所以我們現在串聯各種的資訊流做這個大數據分析來精準管理看看能不能夠所以你就覺得這E化就能夠完全解決人力的問題嗎它能夠強化我們的這個管理的能力可是地方長期就是人力不足的問題中央補助獎勵是一回事不能就這樣子擺著不處理那財化法整個地方的分配款增加之後是不是要求\n地方優先來增加人力來做改善好那最後也請衛福部是不是提供一份那個比較完整的說明跟規劃給我們好我們那個委員的建議非常好我們會持續透過這個要求這個地方多增編這個死案人力來提升\n應該事實上他們要增加人力在我們看就是部長審計部針對去年的食安議題的審計報告早就點名了中國的食品未經核准不得輸台可是我們再次看到現況是\n網路平台 夜市照樣有人賣還有人打著個人自用免查驗的名義一次又一次的進口大量未經核可的食品根本就變成假自用 真商業那變成我們的食安制度的一個破口根據審計部的報告113年我們就有超過70萬人用這種方式來進口食品而且總量超過350萬公斤而且九成都是食品跟調味料\n這樣的數量怎麼可能是個人自用呢你們當時回應審計部說會加強網路稽查阻斷未核准的食品流入也會針對頻繁巨量濫用制度設計對策可是現在到114年年底了像我問部長說\n這一年來制度到底有沒有改善具體的作為又是什麼因為我們直至到現在我們辦公室都還是可以透過這些去買淘寶去買到這些東西所以想問一下\n對 這個委員提的確實是提出了我們現在的痛點就是電商平台的部分就是四面間的查核中國黑心食品或違規的食品那個努力都在查 那個都有查到現在就是那個電商平台所以我們也在研議應該要來考慮因為7月16行正有開過一個虛實對應因為如果講虛實對應的話\n實體是你們 食品是你們管的話那就會變成是你們是 所以我們也在思考應該要來提出像這個食安法的修法把電商平台的管理納入就好像上一次大院這邊我們通過的這個淹害防治法一樣把那個電商平台一併納入管理那包含它的這個借街啦或者是在這個電商平台上販賣的業者或平台的提供者都應該克與相當的責任\n部長是不是儘快因為這些東西一直進來事實上是對我們國人事實上是沒有保障的那也請衛福部給我相關的確確執行的數據跟成效委員好這邊是要數這邊多一點點小小的補充我們這一電商平台其實上個會期裡面有同樣的議題我們被\n提醒所以我們已經把相關的科與電商平台的義務跟責任他必須要確定這個產品是否違法是否合法等等的落地的你們都有管沒有落地的你都沒辦法管的話我覺得現在就是非落地的是不是要一併管我覺得才有辦法解決問題\n在我們看就是 食品安全不能只停留在查禁有害物質更重要的是關乎到孩子的健康從第一次兒權公約的審查到四年前的國際委員再三提醒台灣政府都被要求要重視兒童肥胖的問題\n你自己國建署也一直在有這樣的宣導可是幾年下來我們的成績單沒有太大變化從第一次國際委員到第二次明年要交國家報告第三次了我不知道你們怎麼去回應這件事情因為台灣兒童的肥胖連年列名我們的前段班像男童事實上是第六名\n女童是第十二名肥胖真的是上次前段班每四位小學生就有一位體重超重國中生更超過三成的超重兒童糖尿病的狀況也令人擔憂兒童肥胖牽扯到生活作息運動習慣等面向可是回到你們自己來看國健署一直說你們\n要減少兒童肥胖拒絕零食遠離高熱量高油高鹽高熱量可是問題是現在市場上都賣這些東西的時候那這就是你們應該負責要負責的主戰場所以台灣的兒童的健康警報早就響起部長你怎麼去看現在\n食品安全的政策跟肥胖問題的關聯性政府到底有沒有要準備去解決這個長年沒有解決的危機確實委員提出是一個非常重要的一點就是肥胖是未來就是孩子的時候的肥胖跟未來他的代謝症候群或相關三高是有關聯性的所以這個兒童肥胖的問題我們會積極的納入在我們健康台灣這個下面\n另外一个就是营养从小如何建立这个正确的营养观念还有这个运动这两个可能要一起来来并进才有办法就是说部长这是大概都是全球要面对到的一个挑战联合国已经提醒说食品产业以利润为导向我们的饮食环境对孩子并不友善所以刚刚讲说你们接下来会去努力在健康台湾这边可是超加工的食品高糖高脂高盐\n低營養被證實跟兒少肥胖糖尿病注意力發展問題都高度相關對孕婦跟胎兒也有長期的影響這是公共衛生的一個警訊日韓歐盟都用法規限制食品廣告跟規範校園周邊而且要求食品要更清楚標示以外也要更易懂\n那WHO在2016年早就建議說要課徵我們的糖稅韓國也正在討論加稅並用稅制來誘導我們的健康的選擇那所以想問部長台灣會跟進嗎因為除了無糖飲料最近那個降稅那我們是否考慮用稅制來改善兒童的食品環境\n當然這個委員提到的是這個可能有些國家在實施的糖稅或者是糖捐這種健康捐的概念不過我們第一步先從這個簡明標示讓大家容易這個消費者容易懂我們現在的標示有的時候比較專業\n從專業的角度是比較專業一點但是讓消費者來講不容易明白到底這個含量這個成分是OK不OK是健康不健康那部長食品安全衛生管理法會不會增訂條文要求\n超加工食品额外标示简明的你刚刚讲你们会开始做分级标示那会再入法去要求吗那部长也从额少的肥胖议题的角度上你如何看待我们的营养及健康饮食促进法上路一年了成效如何\n確實剛上路我們目前所做的事情是先去擴大營養教育營養的認知的提升當然對於\n國人的這個重視我想還有一些需要在我們更努力的地方確實所以那衛福部有沒有研究在台灣的兒少飲食習慣研究超加工食品對兒童跟孕婦的風險\n有做這方面的嗎目前據我的了解是還沒有這方面的研究我們也期待你說對兒少跟家長的教育宣導跟廣告的管制也要拜託你們持續加強更積極讓家長也能夠去了解那這些政策我們也期待\n你們應該讓兒少一起共同來參與因為也讓他們對於我們的政府的一些政策能夠了解那接下來是不是請衛福部也把這些完整的一個因應政策跟法規再提供給我們我們未來會讓國健署跟食藥署一起來合作提升這個部分那部長最後一個問題這個非常的重要雖然我們的召委已經站起來我們還是花一點時間\n剛我們談到的兒童參與這是兒權公約的最核心的精神也是為父母主責的業務那十年來我們都有不少進步像行政院兒委會都有兒少參與也是全世界絕無僅有的成果那可是這幾年我們的制度都有沒有偏離初衷像台中最近發生的就兒少代表這件事情為例\n去年台中市政府二月就公告兒少代表參與的規則跟六月完成遴選那兒少也收到通知了因為他們會前一年然後呢遴選進來之後開始賠例到今年就會開始去執行可是今年一月市府卻片面修改規則四月突然通知這些兒少說你們不能參加政府的會議\n你去年已經是通知他說你已經是入企了結果今年說你不能進來還宣稱說這是依照中央的規範是中央規範跟兒權公約整個過程完全沒有跟兒少討論也沒有任何事前說明所以孩子手中的這個入企通知一夕之間變成是廢紙我想問部長台中市政府這種依照兒少\n說依照中央的兒少權法的規範請問中央規範允許這樣的言而無信嗎我們會進一步的了解這個兒權法因為他們有這個設置要點所以兒權會怎麼去運作的程序我們會進一步了解同時會要求台中市政府在下一次我們的兒權\n那個部裡面有一個兒少的福利與權益推動小組的會來做一個專案的報告所以我不只是要問這件事而是整個整體的體制度所以今天我只是先邀請部長一定要對這件事情表態不能放任地方政府去扭曲兒權公約部長你是否願意承諾全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制\n你政府要邀請兒少出來要做公共參與卻用這種方法來對待他們那我接著也會辦一場兒少參與權的公聽會也希望衛福部能夠派組織單位能夠來出席和民間跟兒少一起對話\n我們非常的支持要落實這個CRC的精神讓這個兒少能夠真正的參與各項的這個兒童相關的政策的制定過程所以部長你可不可以先全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制好 我們來看一下各縣市政府的規定好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.077 --> 00:27.238\n主席麻煩部長來有請部長林委員早部長早部長這次那個黑心豬大腸的事件政府的應對跟裁罰還算快速可是我想問一個核心的問題也就是說\n\n00:28.388 --> 00:47.737\n我們現在的食安稽查人力到底夠不夠為什麼這樣問從監察院十年前的報告到去年的蘇丹紅事件再到前天地方政府的說法其實問題其實實際上是沒有改變像台北市說因為他們的稽查人員離職率高達四成而且新北市議員換算\n\n00:50.218 --> 01:07.448\n每一位稽查員一年要處理800件案件那表示人力不足大家都是知道事實上是一個很關鍵的問題那今天的標題也是人力不足可是從今天的專報內容來看是陷入一個出事之後再補一點點的人力的一個惡性循環\n\n01:08.448 --> 01:27.388\n所以今天專報部長你認為這是治標還是治本為什麼地方政府說靠醫化補能力我也不知道靠醫化補能力是什麼意思衛福部說邊境用的大數據抽檢會越來越精準那食藥署也說這次的現在機制已經非常完整可是我非常擔心的是\n\n01:28.129 --> 01:47.108\n是不是下次出事的時候又說是人力不足為何不五大措施也就是你的實案五大措施都很好可是不論是在加強抽檢還是全面的溯源每一項都是需要人力的所以想問請部長明確的回答中央跟地方的實案稽查人力到底夠不夠\n\n01:48.430 --> 02:08.498\n當然在這個人力的部分我們持續去強化包含人力就是這個多少人還有稽查的方法那個能力我們也一併要去提升所以我們也會辦一些訓練研習等等的來提升它的效率當然更重要的如何精準管理\n\n02:09.218 --> 02:36.699\n更重要所以我們現在串聯各種的資訊流做這個大數據分析來精準管理看看能不能夠所以你就覺得這E化就能夠完全解決人力的問題嗎它能夠強化我們的這個管理的能力可是地方長期就是人力不足的問題中央補助獎勵是一回事不能就這樣子擺著不處理那財化法整個地方的分配款增加之後是不是要求\n\n02:37.984 --> 02:56.438\n地方優先來增加人力來做改善好那最後也請衛福部是不是提供一份那個比較完整的說明跟規劃給我們好我們那個委員的建議非常好我們會持續透過這個要求這個地方多增編這個死案人力來提升\n\n03:00.000 --> 03:15.751\n應該事實上他們要增加人力在我們看就是部長審計部針對去年的食安議題的審計報告早就點名了中國的食品未經核准不得輸台可是我們再次看到現況是\n\n03:17.152 --> 03:45.057\n網路平台夜市照樣有人賣還有人打著個人自用免查驗的名義一次又一次的進口大量未經核可的食品根本就變成假自用真商業那變成我們的食安制度的一個破口根據審計部的報告113年我們就有超過70萬人用這種方式來進口食品而且總量超過350萬公斤而且九成都是食品跟調味料\n\n03:45.917 --> 04:04.045\n這樣的數量怎麼可能是個人自用呢你們當時回應審計部說會加強網路稽查阻斷未核准的食品流入也會針對頻繁巨量濫用制度設計對策可是現在到114年年底了像我問部長說\n\n04:05.906 --> 04:16.799\n這一年來制度到底有沒有改善具體的作為又是什麼因為我們直至到現在我們辦公室都還是可以透過這些去買淘寶去買到這些東西所以想問一下\n\n04:18.392 --> 04:37.243\n對這個委員提的確實是提出了我們現在的痛點就是電商平台的部分就是四面間的查核中國黑心食品或違規的食品那個努力都在查那個都有查到現在就是那個電商平台所以我們也在研議應該要來考慮因為7月16行正有開過一個虛實對應因為如果講虛實對應的話\n\n04:44.708 --> 05:14.348\n實體是你們食品是你們管的話那就會變成是你們是所以我們也在思考應該要來提出像這個食安法的修法把電商平台的管理納入就好像上一次大院這邊我們通過的這個淹害防治法一樣把那個電商平台一併納入管理那包含它的這個借街啦或者是在這個電商平台上販賣的業者或平台的提供者都應該克與相當的責任\n\n05:14.748 --> 05:32.082\n部長是不是儘快因為這些東西一直進來事實上是對我們國人事實上是沒有保障的那也請衛福部給我相關的確確執行的數據跟成效委員好這邊是要數這邊多一點點小小的補充我們這一電商平台其實上個會期裡面有同樣的議題我們被\n\n05:33.503 --> 05:51.441\n提醒所以我們已經把相關的科與電商平台的義務跟責任他必須要確定這個產品是否違法是否合法等等的落地的你們都有管沒有落地的你都沒辦法管的話我覺得現在就是非落地的是不是要一併管我覺得才有辦法解決問題\n\n05:53.503 --> 06:11.377\n在我們看就是食品安全不能只停留在查禁有害物質更重要的是關乎到孩子的健康從第一次兒權公約的審查到四年前的國際委員再三提醒台灣政府都被要求要重視兒童肥胖的問題\n\n06:11.997 --> 06:33.036\n你自己國建署也一直在有這樣的宣導可是幾年下來我們的成績單沒有太大變化從第一次國際委員到第二次明年要交國家報告第三次了我不知道你們怎麼去回應這件事情因為台灣兒童的肥胖連年列名我們的前段班像男童事實上是第六名\n\n06:34.437 --> 06:55.030\n女童是第十二名肥胖真的是上次前段班每四位小學生就有一位體重超重國中生更超過三成的超重兒童糖尿病的狀況也令人擔憂兒童肥胖牽扯到生活作息運動習慣等面向可是回到你們自己來看國健署一直說你們\n\n06:55.911 --> 07:14.591\n要減少兒童肥胖拒絕零食遠離高熱量高油高鹽高熱量可是問題是現在市場上都賣這些東西的時候那這就是你們應該負責要負責的主戰場所以台灣的兒童的健康警報早就響起部長你怎麼去看現在\n\n07:15.371 --> 07:42.797\n食品安全的政策跟肥胖問題的關聯性政府到底有沒有要準備去解決這個長年沒有解決的危機確實委員提出是一個非常重要的一點就是肥胖是未來就是孩子的時候的肥胖跟未來他的代謝症候群或相關三高是有關聯性的所以這個兒童肥胖的問題我們會積極的納入在我們健康台灣這個下面\n\n07:44.517 --> 08:13.380\n另外一个就是营养从小如何建立这个正确的营养观念还有这个运动这两个可能要一起来来并进才有办法就是说部长这是大概都是全球要面对到的一个挑战联合国已经提醒说食品产业以利润为导向我们的饮食环境对孩子并不友善所以刚刚讲说你们接下来会去努力在健康台湾这边可是超加工的食品高糖高脂高盐\n\n08:13.860 --> 08:35.708\n低營養被證實跟兒少肥胖糖尿病注意力發展問題都高度相關對孕婦跟胎兒也有長期的影響這是公共衛生的一個警訊日韓歐盟都用法規限制食品廣告跟規範校園周邊而且要求食品要更清楚標示以外也要更易懂\n\n08:36.548 --> 08:56.064\n那WHO在2016年早就建議說要課徵我們的糖稅韓國也正在討論加稅並用稅制來誘導我們的健康的選擇那所以想問部長台灣會跟進嗎因為除了無糖飲料最近那個降稅那我們是否考慮用稅制來改善兒童的食品環境\n\n08:57.084 --> 09:15.813\n當然這個委員提到的是這個可能有些國家在實施的糖稅或者是糖捐這種健康捐的概念不過我們第一步先從這個簡明標示讓大家容易這個消費者容易懂我們現在的標示有的時候比較專業\n\n09:18.935 --> 09:35.608\n從專業的角度是比較專業一點但是讓消費者來講不容易明白到底這個含量這個成分是OK不OK是健康不健康那部長食品安全衛生管理法會不會增訂條文要求\n\n09:36.188 --> 09:55.349\n超加工食品额外标示简明的你刚刚讲你们会开始做分级标示那会再入法去要求吗那部长也从额少的肥胖议题的角度上你如何看待我们的营养及健康饮食促进法上路一年了成效如何\n\n09:59.011 --> 10:05.676\n確實剛上路我們目前所做的事情是先去擴大營養教育營養的認知的提升當然對於\n\n10:15.095 --> 10:28.280\n國人的這個重視我想還有一些需要在我們更努力的地方確實所以那衛福部有沒有研究在台灣的兒少飲食習慣研究超加工食品對兒童跟孕婦的風險\n\n10:29.693 --> 10:48.173\n有做這方面的嗎目前據我的了解是還沒有這方面的研究我們也期待你說對兒少跟家長的教育宣導跟廣告的管制也要拜託你們持續加強更積極讓家長也能夠去了解那這些政策我們也期待\n\n10:48.713 --> 11:13.849\n你們應該讓兒少一起共同來參與因為也讓他們對於我們的政府的一些政策能夠了解那接下來是不是請衛福部也把這些完整的一個因應政策跟法規再提供給我們我們未來會讓國健署跟食藥署一起來合作提升這個部分那部長最後一個問題這個非常的重要雖然我們的召委已經站起來我們還是花一點時間\n\n11:15.170 --> 11:36.906\n剛我們談到的兒童參與這是兒權公約的最核心的精神也是為父母主責的業務那十年來我們都有不少進步像行政院兒委會都有兒少參與也是全世界絕無僅有的成果那可是這幾年我們的制度都有沒有偏離初衷像台中最近發生的就兒少代表這件事情為例\n\n11:37.606 --> 12:01.116\n去年台中市政府二月就公告兒少代表參與的規則跟六月完成遴選那兒少也收到通知了因為他們會前一年然後呢遴選進來之後開始賠例到今年就會開始去執行可是今年一月市府卻片面修改規則四月突然通知這些兒少說你們不能參加政府的會議\n\n12:01.696 --> 12:26.774\n你去年已經是通知他說你已經是入企了結果今年說你不能進來還宣稱說這是依照中央的規範是中央規範跟兒權公約整個過程完全沒有跟兒少討論也沒有任何事前說明所以孩子手中的這個入企通知一夕之間變成是廢紙我想問部長台中市政府這種依照兒少\n\n12:28.756 --> 12:53.693\n說依照中央的兒少權法的規範請問中央規範允許這樣的言而無信嗎我們會進一步的了解這個兒權法因為他們有這個設置要點所以兒權會怎麼去運作的程序我們會進一步了解同時會要求台中市政府在下一次我們的兒權\n\n12:56.555 --> 13:19.888\n那個部裡面有一個兒少的福利與權益推動小組的會來做一個專案的報告所以我不只是要問這件事而是整個整體的體制度所以今天我只是先邀請部長一定要對這件事情表態不能放任地方政府去扭曲兒權公約部長你是否願意承諾全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制\n\n13:20.928 --> 13:35.738\n你政府要邀請兒少出來要做公共參與卻用這種方法來對待他們那我接著也會辦一場兒少參與權的公聽會也希望衛福部能夠派組織單位能夠來出席和民間跟兒少一起對話\n\n13:36.558 --> 13:57.483\n我們非常的支持要落實這個CRC的精神讓這個兒少能夠真正的參與各項的這個兒童相關的政策的制定過程所以部長你可不可以先全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制好我們來看一下各縣市政府的規定好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.077,"end":27.238,"text":"主席麻煩部長來有請部長林委員早部長早部長這次那個黑心豬大腸的事件 政府的應對跟裁罰還算快速可是我想問一個核心的問題也就是說"},{"start":28.388,"end":47.737,"text":"我們現在的食安稽查人力到底夠不夠為什麼這樣問從監察院十年前的報告到去年的蘇丹紅事件再到前天地方政府的說法其實問題其實實際上是沒有改變像台北市說因為他們的稽查人員離職率高達四成而且新北市議員換算"},{"start":50.218,"end":67.448,"text":"每一位稽查員一年要處理800件案件那表示人力不足大家都是知道事實上是一個很關鍵的問題那今天的標題也是人力不足可是從今天的專報內容來看是陷入一個出事之後再補一點點的人力的一個惡性循環"},{"start":68.448,"end":87.388,"text":"所以今天專報部長你認為這是治標還是治本為什麼地方政府說靠醫化補能力我也不知道靠醫化補能力是什麼意思衛福部說邊境用的大數據抽檢會越來越精準那食藥署也說這次的現在機制已經非常完整可是我非常擔心的是"},{"start":88.129,"end":107.108,"text":"是不是下次出事的時候又說是人力不足為何不五大措施也就是你的實案五大措施都很好可是不論是在加強抽檢還是全面的溯源每一項都是需要人力的所以想問請部長明確的回答中央跟地方的實案稽查人力到底夠不夠"},{"start":108.43,"end":128.498,"text":"當然在這個人力的部分我們持續去強化包含人力就是這個多少人還有稽查的方法那個能力我們也一併要去提升所以我們也會辦一些訓練 研習等等的來提升它的效率當然更重要的如何精準管理"},{"start":129.218,"end":156.699,"text":"更重要所以我們現在串聯各種的資訊流做這個大數據分析來精準管理看看能不能夠所以你就覺得這E化就能夠完全解決人力的問題嗎它能夠強化我們的這個管理的能力可是地方長期就是人力不足的問題中央補助獎勵是一回事不能就這樣子擺著不處理那財化法整個地方的分配款增加之後是不是要求"},{"start":157.984,"end":176.438,"text":"地方優先來增加人力來做改善好那最後也請衛福部是不是提供一份那個比較完整的說明跟規劃給我們好我們那個委員的建議非常好我們會持續透過這個要求這個地方多增編這個死案人力來提升"},{"start":180,"end":195.751,"text":"應該事實上他們要增加人力在我們看就是部長審計部針對去年的食安議題的審計報告早就點名了中國的食品未經核准不得輸台可是我們再次看到現況是"},{"start":197.152,"end":225.057,"text":"網路平台 夜市照樣有人賣還有人打著個人自用免查驗的名義一次又一次的進口大量未經核可的食品根本就變成假自用 真商業那變成我們的食安制度的一個破口根據審計部的報告113年我們就有超過70萬人用這種方式來進口食品而且總量超過350萬公斤而且九成都是食品跟調味料"},{"start":225.917,"end":244.045,"text":"這樣的數量怎麼可能是個人自用呢你們當時回應審計部說會加強網路稽查阻斷未核准的食品流入也會針對頻繁巨量濫用制度設計對策可是現在到114年年底了像我問部長說"},{"start":245.906,"end":256.799,"text":"這一年來制度到底有沒有改善具體的作為又是什麼因為我們直至到現在我們辦公室都還是可以透過這些去買淘寶去買到這些東西所以想問一下"},{"start":258.392,"end":277.243,"text":"對 這個委員提的確實是提出了我們現在的痛點就是電商平台的部分就是四面間的查核中國黑心食品或違規的食品那個努力都在查 那個都有查到現在就是那個電商平台所以我們也在研議應該要來考慮因為7月16行正有開過一個虛實對應因為如果講虛實對應的話"},{"start":284.708,"end":314.348,"text":"實體是你們 食品是你們管的話那就會變成是你們是 所以我們也在思考應該要來提出像這個食安法的修法把電商平台的管理納入就好像上一次大院這邊我們通過的這個淹害防治法一樣把那個電商平台一併納入管理那包含它的這個借街啦或者是在這個電商平台上販賣的業者或平台的提供者都應該克與相當的責任"},{"start":314.748,"end":332.082,"text":"部長是不是儘快因為這些東西一直進來事實上是對我們國人事實上是沒有保障的那也請衛福部給我相關的確確執行的數據跟成效委員好這邊是要數這邊多一點點小小的補充我們這一電商平台其實上個會期裡面有同樣的議題我們被"},{"start":333.503,"end":351.441,"text":"提醒所以我們已經把相關的科與電商平台的義務跟責任他必須要確定這個產品是否違法是否合法等等的落地的你們都有管沒有落地的你都沒辦法管的話我覺得現在就是非落地的是不是要一併管我覺得才有辦法解決問題"},{"start":353.503,"end":371.377,"text":"在我們看就是 食品安全不能只停留在查禁有害物質更重要的是關乎到孩子的健康從第一次兒權公約的審查到四年前的國際委員再三提醒台灣政府都被要求要重視兒童肥胖的問題"},{"start":371.997,"end":393.036,"text":"你自己國建署也一直在有這樣的宣導可是幾年下來我們的成績單沒有太大變化從第一次國際委員到第二次明年要交國家報告第三次了我不知道你們怎麼去回應這件事情因為台灣兒童的肥胖連年列名我們的前段班像男童事實上是第六名"},{"start":394.437,"end":415.03,"text":"女童是第十二名肥胖真的是上次前段班每四位小學生就有一位體重超重國中生更超過三成的超重兒童糖尿病的狀況也令人擔憂兒童肥胖牽扯到生活作息運動習慣等面向可是回到你們自己來看國健署一直說你們"},{"start":415.911,"end":434.591,"text":"要減少兒童肥胖拒絕零食遠離高熱量高油高鹽高熱量可是問題是現在市場上都賣這些東西的時候那這就是你們應該負責要負責的主戰場所以台灣的兒童的健康警報早就響起部長你怎麼去看現在"},{"start":435.371,"end":462.797,"text":"食品安全的政策跟肥胖問題的關聯性政府到底有沒有要準備去解決這個長年沒有解決的危機確實委員提出是一個非常重要的一點就是肥胖是未來就是孩子的時候的肥胖跟未來他的代謝症候群或相關三高是有關聯性的所以這個兒童肥胖的問題我們會積極的納入在我們健康台灣這個下面"},{"start":464.517,"end":493.38,"text":"另外一个就是营养从小如何建立这个正确的营养观念还有这个运动这两个可能要一起来来并进才有办法就是说部长这是大概都是全球要面对到的一个挑战联合国已经提醒说食品产业以利润为导向我们的饮食环境对孩子并不友善所以刚刚讲说你们接下来会去努力在健康台湾这边可是超加工的食品高糖高脂高盐"},{"start":493.86,"end":515.708,"text":"低營養被證實跟兒少肥胖糖尿病注意力發展問題都高度相關對孕婦跟胎兒也有長期的影響這是公共衛生的一個警訊日韓歐盟都用法規限制食品廣告跟規範校園周邊而且要求食品要更清楚標示以外也要更易懂"},{"start":516.548,"end":536.064,"text":"那WHO在2016年早就建議說要課徵我們的糖稅韓國也正在討論加稅並用稅制來誘導我們的健康的選擇那所以想問部長台灣會跟進嗎因為除了無糖飲料最近那個降稅那我們是否考慮用稅制來改善兒童的食品環境"},{"start":537.084,"end":555.813,"text":"當然這個委員提到的是這個可能有些國家在實施的糖稅或者是糖捐這種健康捐的概念不過我們第一步先從這個簡明標示讓大家容易這個消費者容易懂我們現在的標示有的時候比較專業"},{"start":558.935,"end":575.608,"text":"從專業的角度是比較專業一點但是讓消費者來講不容易明白到底這個含量這個成分是OK不OK是健康不健康那部長食品安全衛生管理法會不會增訂條文要求"},{"start":576.188,"end":595.349,"text":"超加工食品额外标示简明的你刚刚讲你们会开始做分级标示那会再入法去要求吗那部长也从额少的肥胖议题的角度上你如何看待我们的营养及健康饮食促进法上路一年了成效如何"},{"start":599.011,"end":605.676,"text":"確實剛上路我們目前所做的事情是先去擴大營養教育營養的認知的提升當然對於"},{"start":615.095,"end":628.28,"text":"國人的這個重視我想還有一些需要在我們更努力的地方確實所以那衛福部有沒有研究在台灣的兒少飲食習慣研究超加工食品對兒童跟孕婦的風險"},{"start":629.693,"end":648.173,"text":"有做這方面的嗎目前據我的了解是還沒有這方面的研究我們也期待你說對兒少跟家長的教育宣導跟廣告的管制也要拜託你們持續加強更積極讓家長也能夠去了解那這些政策我們也期待"},{"start":648.713,"end":673.849,"text":"你們應該讓兒少一起共同來參與因為也讓他們對於我們的政府的一些政策能夠了解那接下來是不是請衛福部也把這些完整的一個因應政策跟法規再提供給我們我們未來會讓國健署跟食藥署一起來合作提升這個部分那部長最後一個問題這個非常的重要雖然我們的召委已經站起來我們還是花一點時間"},{"start":675.17,"end":696.906,"text":"剛我們談到的兒童參與這是兒權公約的最核心的精神也是為父母主責的業務那十年來我們都有不少進步像行政院兒委會都有兒少參與也是全世界絕無僅有的成果那可是這幾年我們的制度都有沒有偏離初衷像台中最近發生的就兒少代表這件事情為例"},{"start":697.606,"end":721.116,"text":"去年台中市政府二月就公告兒少代表參與的規則跟六月完成遴選那兒少也收到通知了因為他們會前一年然後呢遴選進來之後開始賠例到今年就會開始去執行可是今年一月市府卻片面修改規則四月突然通知這些兒少說你們不能參加政府的會議"},{"start":721.696,"end":746.774,"text":"你去年已經是通知他說你已經是入企了結果今年說你不能進來還宣稱說這是依照中央的規範是中央規範跟兒權公約整個過程完全沒有跟兒少討論也沒有任何事前說明所以孩子手中的這個入企通知一夕之間變成是廢紙我想問部長台中市政府這種依照兒少"},{"start":748.756,"end":773.693,"text":"說依照中央的兒少權法的規範請問中央規範允許這樣的言而無信嗎我們會進一步的了解這個兒權法因為他們有這個設置要點所以兒權會怎麼去運作的程序我們會進一步了解同時會要求台中市政府在下一次我們的兒權"},{"start":776.555,"end":799.888,"text":"那個部裡面有一個兒少的福利與權益推動小組的會來做一個專案的報告所以我不只是要問這件事而是整個整體的體制度所以今天我只是先邀請部長一定要對這件事情表態不能放任地方政府去扭曲兒權公約部長你是否願意承諾全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制"},{"start":800.928,"end":815.738,"text":"你政府要邀請兒少出來要做公共參與卻用這種方法來對待他們那我接著也會辦一場兒少參與權的公聽會也希望衛福部能夠派組織單位能夠來出席和民間跟兒少一起對話"},{"start":816.558,"end":837.483,"text":"我們非常的支持要落實這個CRC的精神讓這個兒少能夠真正的參與各項的這個兒童相關的政策的制定過程所以部長你可不可以先全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制好 我們來看一下各縣市政府的規定好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":183,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（9時27分）主席，麻煩部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["石部長崇良：林委員早。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。部長，這次黑心豬大腸事件，政府的應對與裁罰還算快速，可是我想問一個核心的問題，也就是你們現在的食安稽查人力到底夠不夠？為什麼這樣問？從監察院10年前的報告到去年蘇丹紅事件，再到前天地方政府的說法，事實上問題沒有改變，像臺北市說因為他們的稽查人員離職率高達四成，而且新北市議員還說換算每一位稽查員一年要處理800件案子，表示大家都知道人力不足事實上是一個很關鍵的問題。今天的標題也是人力不足，可是從今天的專報內容來看是陷入出事之後再補一點點人力的一個惡性循環，所以今天的專報，部長，你認為是治標還是治本？為什麼？地方政府說靠e化補人力，我也不知道靠e化補人力是什麼意思；衛福部說邊境用的大數據抽檢會越來越精準；食藥署也說現在的機制已經非常完整，可是我非常擔心會不會下次出事的時候又說是人力不足。","衛福部有五大措施，也就是食安五大措施都很好，可是不論是在加強抽檢還是全面溯源，每項都是需要人力的，所以請部長明確回答中央與地方的食安稽查人力到底夠不夠？"],["石部長崇良：當然，在人力的部分，我們持續強化，包含人力，就是多少人，還有稽查的方法、能力也一併要提升，所以我們也會辦一些訓練、研習等等來提升效率，當然更重要的……"],["林委員月琴：因為你今年12月……"],["石部長崇良：如何精準管理更重要，所以我們現在串聯各種資訊流做大數據分析來精準管理，看看能不能夠……"],["林委員月琴：所以你覺得ｅ化就能夠完全解決人力的問題嗎？"],["石部長崇良：它能夠強化我們的管理能力啦。"],["林委員月琴：地方長期就是有人力不足的問題，中央補助獎勵是一回事，但不能就這樣子擺著不處理啦！財劃法整個地方的分配款增加之後，是不是要求地方優先針對人力來做改善……"],["石部長崇良：好。"],["林委員月琴：最後也請衛福部是不是能提供一份比較完整的說明跟規劃給我們？"],["石部長崇良：好，委員的建議非常好，我們會持續透過要求地方多增編食安人力來提升。"],["林委員月琴：是，因為錢已經都到地方去了，事實上他們應該要增加人力。"],["石部長崇良：好。"],["林委員月琴：再來，部長，我們看到審計部針對於去年食安議題的審計報告早就點名中國的食品未經核准不得輸臺，可是我們再次看到現況是網路平臺、夜市照樣有人賣，還有人打著個人自用免查驗的名義，一次又一次的進口大量未經核可的食品，根本就是假自用真商業，變成我們食安制度的一個破口。根據審計部的報告，113年我們就有超過70萬人用這種方式進口食品，其中有九成都是食品跟調味料等相關產品，總量超過350萬公斤，這樣的數量怎麼可能是個人自用呢？你們當時回應審計部說會加強網路稽查，阻斷未核准的食品流入，也會針對頻繁、巨量濫用制度設計對策，可是現在到114年年底了，我想請問部長，這一年來在制度方面到底有沒有改善？具體的作為又是什麼？因為直到現在，我們辦公室都還是可以透過這些通道（例如：淘寶）去買到這些東西，所以想請問一下。"],["石部長崇良：對，委員確實是提出了我們現在的痛點，就是電商平臺的部分，也就是說，市面上查核中國黑心食品或違規食品，那個都有努力在查，也都有查到，現在就是電商平臺的部分，所以我們也在研議……"],["林委員月琴：部長，覺得電商平臺應該誰來處理？"],["石部長崇良：應該要來考慮……"],["林委員月琴：因為7月16號行政院有開過一個虛實對應，以虛實對應來講的話，如果實體是你們，食品是你們管的話，那就會變成是你們。"],["石部長崇良：是，所以我們也在思考應該要提出食安法的修法，把電商平臺的管理納入，就好像上一次大院這邊通過的菸害防制法一樣，把電商平臺一併納入管理，包含他的介接，或者是在電商平臺上販賣的業者或平臺的提供者，都應該課予相當的責任。"],["林委員月琴：部長，是不是儘快？"],["石部長崇良：好。"],["林委員月琴：因為這些東西一直進來，事實上對我們國人是沒有保障的，也請衛福部給我相關確切執行的數據跟成效。"],["姜署長至剛：委員好，食藥署這邊做一點點小小的補充，對於電商平臺，其實上個會期有同樣的議題，我們被提醒，所以我們已經把相關課予電商平臺的義務跟責任……他必須要確定這個產品是否違法、是否合法等等，我們會繼續努力。"],["林委員月琴：署長，落地的你們都有管，沒有落地的你們都沒辦法管的話，現在就是非落地的是不是要一併管，我覺得這樣才有辦法解決問題。"],["石部長崇良：好。"],["林委員月琴：再來，部長，食品安全不能只停留在查禁有害物質，更重要的是關乎到孩子的健康。從第一次兒權公約的審查到四年前的國際委員再三提醒，臺灣政府都被要求要重視兒童肥胖的問題，你自己國健署也一而再、再而三有這樣的宣導，可是幾年下來，我們的成績單沒有太大變化，從第一次國際委員到第二次，明年要交國家報告，第三次了，我不知道你們怎麼去回應這件事情。因為臺灣兒童的肥胖連年列名前段班耶，男童是第六名，女童是第十二名，我們的肥胖真的是在前段班，每四位小學生就有一位體重超重，國中生超重比例更超過三成。兒童糖尿病的狀況也令人擔憂，我們當然知道兒童肥胖牽扯到生活、作息、運動習慣等面向，可是回過頭來看，你們自己國健署一直宣導要減少兒童肥胖要「拒絕零食、遠離高熱量」，避免高油、高鹽、高熱量等食品，可是問題是現在市場上都賣這些東西，這就是你們應該負責食安的主戰場。臺灣兒童的健康警報早就響起，部長，你怎麼去看現在食品安全政策跟兒童肥胖問題的關聯性？政府到底有沒有要準備去解決這個長年沒有解決的危機？"],["石部長崇良：對，確實委員提出的是非常重要的一點，就是肥胖是未來……就是孩童時期的肥胖跟未來他的代謝症候群或相關三高是有關聯性的，所以兒童肥胖的問題，我們會積極的納入在「健康台灣」下面，另外一個就是營養，從小如何建立正確的營養觀念，還有運動，這兩個可能要一起並進才有辦法。"],["林委員月琴：我們來看一下，部長，這大概是全球要面對到的一個挑戰。聯合國已經提醒，食品產業以利潤為導向，我們的飲食環境對孩子並不友善，所以你剛剛說接下來會在「健康臺灣」這邊去努力，可是超加工食品的高糖、高脂、高鹽、低營養被證實跟兒少肥胖、糖尿病、注意力發展等問題都高度相關，對孕婦跟胎兒也有長期的影響，這是公共衛生的一個警訊耶！"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["林委員月琴：日、韓、歐盟都用法規限制食品廣告跟規範校園周邊，而且要求食品要更清楚標示以外，也要更易懂。WHO在2016年早就建議要課徵糖稅，韓國也正在討論加稅並用稅制來誘導健康的選擇，所以想問部長，臺灣會跟進嗎？因為之前無糖飲料有降稅，我們是否考慮用稅制來改善兒童的食品環境？"],["石部長崇良：當然，委員提到的是有些國家在實施的糖稅或者是糖捐這種健康捐的概念，不過我們第一步先從簡明標示開始，讓消費者容易懂，我們現在的標示有的時候比較專業……"],["林委員月琴：對，很難看得懂。"],["石部長崇良：從專業的角度來說是比較專業一點，但是卻讓消費者不容易明白到底這個含量、這個成分OK不OK、健康不健康，這個我們……"],["林委員月琴：部長，食品安全衛生管理法會不會增訂條文要求超加工食品額外做簡明的標示？你剛剛講你們會開始做分級標示，會入法去要求嘛……"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["林委員月琴：部長，從兒少肥胖議題的角度上，你如何看待我們的營養及健康飲食促進法？上路一年了，成效如何？"],["石部長崇良：確實，這個剛上路，我們目前所做的事情是先去擴大營養教育，營養認知的提升，當然，針對國人對於這個部分的重視，我想確實還有一些需要我們更努力的地方。"],["林委員月琴：所以衛福部有沒有研究臺灣兒少的飲食習慣及超加工食品對兒童跟孕婦的風險？有做這方面的研究嗎？"],["石部長崇良：據我的了解是目前還沒有這方面的研究，我們來……"],["林委員月琴：我們也期待你所說要對兒少跟家長的教育宣導跟廣告管制，也要拜託你們持續加強，要更積極的讓家長也能夠去了解。有關於這些政策，我們期待你們應該讓兒少一起共同來參與，也要讓他們對於我們政府的一些政策能夠有所了解。是不是請衛福部也把這些完整的因應政策跟法規再提供給我們？"],["石部長崇良：我們未來會讓國健署跟食藥署一起來合作，提升這個部分。"],["林委員月琴：部長，最後一個問題，這個非常的重要，雖然我們的召委已經站起來，我們還是花一點時間。剛剛我們談到的兒童參與，這是兒權公約最核心的精神，也是衛福部主責的業務，10年來我們都有不少進步，像行政院兒委會都有兒少參與，也是全世界絕無僅有的成果，可是這幾年我們的制度有沒有偏離初衷？像臺中最近發生的，以兒少代表這件事情為例，去年臺中市政府2月就公告兒少代表參與的規則跟6月完成遴選，兒少也收到通知了，因為他們會前一年就開始遴選進來，然後要進行培力，到今年就會開始去執行，可是今年1月市府卻片面修改規則，4月突然通知這些兒少不能參加政府的會議，去年已經通知他被錄取了，結果今年說不能進來，還宣稱這是依照中央的規範，是你們中央規範跟兒權公約，整個過程完全沒有跟兒少討論，事前也沒有任何的說明，所以孩子手中的錄取通知一夕之間變成廢紙。我想問部長，臺中市政府說是依照中央的兒少權法的規範，請問中央規範允許這樣的言而無信嗎？"],["石部長崇良：我們會進一步的了解兒權法，因為他們有設置要點，所以兒權會怎麼去運作的整個程序，我們會進一步了解，同時會要求臺中市政府在下一次到我們部裡面的兒少福利與權益推動小組會議來做一個專案報告。"],["林委員月琴：所以我不只是要問這件事，而是整個整體的制度，今天我只是先邀請部長一定要對這件事情表態，不能放任地方政府去扭曲兒權公約。部長，你是否願意承諾，全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制？政府要邀請兒少出來做公共參與，卻用這種方法來對待他們。我接著也會辦一場兒少參與權的公聽會，也希望衛福部能夠派主責單位出席，和民間跟兒少一起對話。"],["石部長崇良：好，是，我們非常支持要落實CRC的精神，讓兒少能夠真正參與各項兒童相關政策的制定過程。"],["林委員月琴：所以，部長，你可不可以先全面檢視中央到地方的兒少參與機制？"],["石部長崇良：好，我們來看一下各縣市政府的規定。"],["林委員月琴：好。謝謝部長，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請陳菁徽委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":260,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","邱志偉","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","廖偉翔","劉建國","葉元之","楊曜"],"page_start":189,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長及行政院食品安全辦公室就「重大食安事件處理之檢討與食安稽核人力不足\n問題」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00004"}}}