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{\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 791.717, \"end\": 791.937, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 791.937, \"end\": 792.678, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 792.678, \"end\": 793.258, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 793.258, \"end\": 793.719, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 793.719, \"end\": 794.239, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 794.239, \"end\": 794.5, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 794.5, \"end\": 794.52, \"score\": 0.324}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,485 --> 00:00:15,729\n謝謝主席我們先請經濟部農業部還有環境部來請經濟部農業部還有環境部\n\n2\n00:00:23,067 --> 00:00:43,237\n我們部長還有次長好我想今天我手上有一份陳情書這是最近因為丹納斯颱風之後我們烏山頭水庫的光電板再一次被提醒而且再一次被變成是一個很重要討論的焦點\n\n3\n00:00:44,838 --> 00:01:04,190\n那烏山頭水庫的光電板是111年就已經完成的可是為什麼在最近又被提出了就因為丹納斯颱風我們看到所有的光電板因為被風吹了然後很多都破爛不堪大家擔心\n\n4\n00:01:05,091 --> 00:01:24,230\n如果在烏山頭水庫上面的光電板也變成這個樣子怎麼辦還好這一次丹納斯颱風烏山頭水庫的光電板沒有造成嚴重的狀況可是他們擔心下一次呢好還有第二個因為有\n\n5\n00:01:26,072 --> 00:01:40,743\n有人故意要去提醒說光電板到底怎麼清洗我相信這在過去漁電工生的時候我們也討論過就是說到底清洗光電板是清潔劑還是清水\n\n6\n00:01:42,366 --> 00:02:06,959\n但是我們當時候就已經有要求在訂合約的時候一定是不能用清潔劑所以在我們的合約裡面也有訂了不能用清潔劑所以為什麼有這樣的一個聲音跟風向造成這一個禮拜你知道我到地方跑行程所有的人都拉著我說拜託我們都支持民進黨的\n\n7\n00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:26,352\n我們的水庫上面怎麼可以放光電板這會造成我們的灌溉水源我們的飲水源會有問題這很可怕你知道嗎在這一個禮拜那個風向\n\n8\n00:02:27,728 --> 00:02:52,485\n我們的處理的速度實在是太慢所以我手上拿的是地方人民的陳情書他們陳情的部分我今天把它做成那個讓簡單的文字讓大家看到他們所說的烏山龍水庫它有它民生國安的特殊重要性如果污染了那麼我們怎麼辦\n\n9\n00:02:54,028 --> 00:03:11,670\n而且他有灌溉整個雲嘉南平原15萬畝的糧田北至虎尾南至台南安平是台灣最大的穀倉如果這個部分沒有辦法成為民生跟我們國防的最大後盾怎麼辦再來\n\n10\n00:03:13,032 --> 00:03:37,971\n我們看到在整個供應水的部分也是依照自來水法跟飲用水管理條例相關的部分都應該禁止所有的興建跟設置行為因為水源保護的重要性再來就是我們是江南農業的命脈民生用水的基石環境生態的屏障\n\n11\n00:03:38,892 --> 00:03:58,198\n所以烏山頭水庫設了我們的光電板大家的內心無法承受但是我必須強調這是111年就已經設置好的因為這一次丹納斯颱風再一次被檢討再一次被提醒好他也是\n\n12\n00:03:59,438 --> 00:04:25,678\n我們的文化遺產這個文化遺產我們所看到的是烏山頭水庫它是八田羽衣它所留下的重要資產所以這幾點讓六甲的鄉親讓關田的鄉親甚至現在因為他們提出這些聲明變成全部從北至南全部都涵蓋了\n\n13\n00:04:26,897 --> 00:04:53,607\n所以部長兩位部長還有我們的環境部的次長這個嚴重性知識體大絕對不是告而已當然今天沒有用化學藥劑而被說有用化學藥劑引發社會的恐慌這個要告業者要告是業者的事可是我們政府要給人民什麼樣的信心指數\n\n14\n00:04:55,189 --> 00:05:21,726\n這個很重要啊我們每次都偏廢了然後變成一個風向搞到最後政府無法承擔兩位部長跟市長我要拜託大家我們是不是能夠來做一個宣示因為基本上現在在水庫要設光電板如果我們的政府不同意地方政府不同意其實他是沒有辦法設立的\n\n15\n00:05:22,646 --> 00:05:41,915\n包括我們在曾文水庫還有我們的烏山頭水庫的二期都是一樣烏山頭水庫二期因為現在台南市政府不同意然後曾文水庫因為嘉義縣政府不同意所以這個全部停擺\n\n16\n00:05:43,197 --> 00:06:08,530\n所以我們是不是做一個宣示如果水庫現在已經引發大家這麼多的爭議我們不論白河水庫在台南白河水庫烏山頭水庫曾文水庫南化水庫我們絕對不會核准任何一個光電執照是不是可以部長來部長是巴委員我想這樣因為\n\n17\n00:06:10,936 --> 00:06:32,063\n就是現在民眾有一些餘力餘力有兩個嘛它穩不穩固嘛那第二個就是這個清洗的時候的方式嘛那我想既有的部分清洗的部分我們會加強監督沒有部長我告訴你你依照我這個部分後面我們會談到白河烏山頭這是台南白河烏山頭真聞難話\n\n18\n00:06:34,180 --> 00:06:58,133\n因為基本上現在沒有一個縣市政府敢准地方政府沒有核准我們就不可能所以我們就宣誓我們為什麼都不敢講宣誓說如果在地方政府都不同意的前提之下我們不可能核准任何一張的我們在水庫上面的光電執照地方政府不同意的話\n\n19\n00:06:59,213 --> 00:07:27,384\n對不對好我們就訂了這個嘛所以地方政府由地方政府把關各縣市政府在我們的水庫上面包括因為真文有嘉義縣跟台南市嘛所以我們在整個的氛圍當中白河烏山頭真文南化只要各縣市政府不同意我們絕對不會核准任何一張在水庫上方的光電執照OK吧\n\n20\n00:07:28,024 --> 00:07:54,309\n好第二個部分就是說這是農業部的農業部因為烏山頭的光電板是在111年完成依照租賃合約的時間是9年11個月這我對你們的合約說出來所以租賃9年11個月我在這裡要求期間夠不要再續租了不要再續租了可以嗎\n\n21\n00:07:56,206 --> 00:08:10,482\n可以嗎我想我們電證我如果沒有同意你也沒辦法續租啦對地方政府如果沒有同意的話我們中央絕對不會壓著地方政府同意對嘛所以你們農田水利署就不能再續租這個宣示性很重要\n\n22\n00:08:11,516 --> 00:08:28,574\n我們不要這樣子好像畏畏縮縮的要講就講大聲所以我們如果在9年11個月也就是121年4月23日時間到了租任合約到了我們農田水利署允諾不再續租\n\n23\n00:08:31,151 --> 00:08:56,405\n這個我們拜託農業部這個要堅持然後再來我們在這段時間合約規定清洗是禁用清潔劑的這裡面合約有寫得非常清楚也就是部長剛所說的我們是禁用清潔劑的好這個部分要怎麼控管才能讓民眾安心我們的這個能源署或是我們\n\n24\n00:08:57,984 --> 00:09:25,454\n我可不可以先說明一下我們就因為灌溉用水的部分其實我們農業部包括我們的那個管理處烏山頭管理處的部分我們大概一年檢測了五次然後在不同點位在哪裡你這個要公開啊烏山頭然後這個所有的檢測在環境部的網站都有公告它一定是用清水的因為大家已經對於烏山頭我們的水師檢測站也會有你要把它公開嘛管理處的網站也會有\n\n25\n00:09:26,414 --> 00:09:42,039\n那這個網站公開之後那有人說好像真的設了111年設的時候我們的水質有改變有這樣的話嗎有這樣的狀況嗎沒有這樣的沒有這回事情沒有這回事你把它公開啊資訊公開啊\n\n26\n00:09:43,530 --> 00:10:04,616\n你要跟大家沒有部長你資訊那麼多大家不知道哪一個是否我們烏山頭的哪一個是否我們灌溉水源的哪一個是否我們的水池的特別事情已經發生了你慢慢半拍把資料調出來有我們都有監測\n\n27\n00:10:07,057 --> 00:10:35,611\n這些錯假訊息用清潔劑洗其實清潔劑洗含有磷的時候在相關的檢測是檢測得出來的所以我們相關的檢測都是安全的而且是沒有用到清潔劑因為含有磷的部分所以這個部分我們會有處理那你就要把這一塊單獨出來在現在大家紛紛擾擾的時候把它獨立出來做一個非常重要的一個資訊透明再來那我們要怎麼控管水質那我們經濟部\n\n28\n00:10:37,330 --> 00:11:05,025\n我們也是一樣進到進水廠之前我們都會檢測啊需要檢測是OK的對沒有資訊資訊在哪裡你們都說有啊我們有在檢測啊問題資訊在哪裡我拜託在今天之後你們兩個部會把這兩個獨立出來讓大家看清楚我們的水質是怎麼檢測的好再來因為我們一年要洗兩次\n\n29\n00:11:05,826 --> 00:11:08,042\n清洗兩次這個誰在控管\n\n30\n00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:36,067\n清洗兩次這個光電板用清水清洗的光電板好那拜託我們在清洗的時候我們邀請現場關心的民眾甚至里長去看嘛怎麼清洗的嘛也可以這個樣子把它透明化是不是可以可以把它透明化這樣大家都沒有疑慮了再來我要拜託因為現在還有一個疑問說\n\n31\n00:11:38,468 --> 00:12:01,034\n這個綠能公司是我們台汽電的孫公司是我們的孫公司所以如果現在民眾這麼樣的反彈我們是不是可以跟他溝通可以做什麼樣的處置來我們能源署台電台電是不是可以台電是不是可以\n\n32\n00:12:03,128 --> 00:12:23,167\n可以我可以要求台電請台電公司來幫忙那另外這一個剛才講他對個人對他公司名譽的毀損那麼他們在禮拜五已經去警局做登記然後今天法院上班之後他們就會提出那是公司的問題我一直強調公司他自己要維護他的名譽他自己要去維護\n\n33\n00:12:23,908 --> 00:12:43,275\n可是我們的政府我們要怎麼讓人民安心這是兩鬼兩件事可是我們往往都把它併在一起我們是兩件事所以我說的我們要怎麼去溝通我們台氣店因為既然是孫公司嘛台氣店怎麼做很重要讓人民怎麼安心\n\n34\n00:12:43,955 --> 00:12:58,734\n就刚才委员讲的清洗刚才农业部说他们会来检查那我们也会透过公司这一边要求他要清洗的时候要找地方的村里长跟民众大家一起来看那避免未来这种谣言再发生\n\n35\n00:12:59,625 --> 00:13:14,520\n重點就是水庫上方不能再準任何的光電板然後呢我們9年11個月時間到了我們農水署不要再租給他們我相信這樣民眾就會比較安心謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10485\t15729\t謝謝主席我們先請經濟部農業部還有環境部來請經濟部農業部還有環境部\n23067\t43237\t我們部長還有次長好我想今天我手上有一份陳情書這是最近因為丹納斯颱風之後我們烏山頭水庫的光電板再一次被提醒而且再一次被變成是一個很重要討論的焦點\n44838\t64190\t那烏山頭水庫的光電板是111年就已經完成的可是為什麼在最近又被提出了就因為丹納斯颱風我們看到所有的光電板因為被風吹了然後很多都破爛不堪大家擔心\n65091\t84230\t如果在烏山頭水庫上面的光電板也變成這個樣子怎麼辦還好這一次丹納斯颱風烏山頭水庫的光電板沒有造成嚴重的狀況可是他們擔心下一次呢好還有第二個因為有\n86072\t100743\t有人故意要去提醒說光電板到底怎麼清洗我相信這在過去漁電工生的時候我們也討論過就是說到底清洗光電板是清潔劑還是清水\n102366\t126959\t但是我們當時候就已經有要求在訂合約的時候一定是不能用清潔劑所以在我們的合約裡面也有訂了不能用清潔劑所以為什麼有這樣的一個聲音跟風向造成這一個禮拜你知道我到地方跑行程所有的人都拉著我說拜託我們都支持民進黨的\n128320\t146352\t我們的水庫上面怎麼可以放光電板這會造成我們的灌溉水源我們的飲水源會有問題這很可怕你知道嗎在這一個禮拜那個風向\n147728\t172485\t我們的處理的速度實在是太慢所以我手上拿的是地方人民的陳情書他們陳情的部分我今天把它做成那個讓簡單的文字讓大家看到他們所說的烏山龍水庫它有它民生國安的特殊重要性如果污染了那麼我們怎麼辦\n174028\t191670\t而且他有灌溉整個雲嘉南平原15萬畝的糧田北至虎尾南至台南安平是台灣最大的穀倉如果這個部分沒有辦法成為民生跟我們國防的最大後盾怎麼辦再來\n193032\t217971\t我們看到在整個供應水的部分也是依照自來水法跟飲用水管理條例相關的部分都應該禁止所有的興建跟設置行為因為水源保護的重要性再來就是我們是江南農業的命脈民生用水的基石環境生態的屏障\n218892\t238198\t所以烏山頭水庫設了我們的光電板大家的內心無法承受但是我必須強調這是111年就已經設置好的因為這一次丹納斯颱風再一次被檢討再一次被提醒好他也是\n239438\t265678\t我們的文化遺產這個文化遺產我們所看到的是烏山頭水庫它是八田羽衣它所留下的重要資產所以這幾點讓六甲的鄉親讓關田的鄉親甚至現在因為他們提出這些聲明變成全部從北至南全部都涵蓋了\n266897\t293607\t所以部長兩位部長還有我們的環境部的次長這個嚴重性知識體大絕對不是告而已當然今天沒有用化學藥劑而被說有用化學藥劑引發社會的恐慌這個要告業者要告是業者的事可是我們政府要給人民什麼樣的信心指數\n295189\t321726\t這個很重要啊我們每次都偏廢了然後變成一個風向搞到最後政府無法承擔兩位部長跟市長我要拜託大家我們是不是能夠來做一個宣示因為基本上現在在水庫要設光電板如果我們的政府不同意地方政府不同意其實他是沒有辦法設立的\n322646\t341915\t包括我們在曾文水庫還有我們的烏山頭水庫的二期都是一樣烏山頭水庫二期因為現在台南市政府不同意然後曾文水庫因為嘉義縣政府不同意所以這個全部停擺\n343197\t368530\t所以我們是不是做一個宣示如果水庫現在已經引發大家這麼多的爭議我們不論白河水庫在台南白河水庫 烏山頭水庫 曾文水庫 南化水庫我們絕對不會核准任何一個光電執照是不是可以 部長來 部長是 巴委員我想這樣 因為\n370936\t392063\t就是現在民眾有一些餘力餘力有兩個嘛它穩不穩固嘛那第二個就是這個清洗的時候的方式嘛那我想既有的部分清洗的部分我們會加強監督沒有 部長我告訴你你依照我這個部分後面我們會談到白河烏山頭這是台南白河烏山頭真聞難話\n394180\t418133\t因為基本上現在沒有一個縣市政府敢准地方政府沒有核准我們就不可能所以我們就宣誓 我們為什麼都不敢講宣誓說如果在地方政府都不同意的前提之下我們不可能核准任何一張的我們在水庫上面的光電執照地方政府不同意的話\n419213\t447384\t對不對 好 我們就訂了這個嘛所以地方政府 由地方政府把關各縣市政府在我們的水庫上面 包括因為真文有嘉義縣跟台南市嘛所以我們在整個的氛圍當中白河 烏山頭 真文 南化只要各縣市政府不同意我們絕對不會核准任何一張在水庫上方的光電執照OK吧\n448024\t474309\t好第二個部分就是說這是農業部的農業部因為烏山頭的光電板是在111年完成依照租賃合約的時間是9年11個月這我對你們的合約說出來所以租賃9年11個月我在這裡要求期間夠不要再續租了不要再續租了可以嗎\n476206\t490482\t可以嗎 我想我們 電證我如果沒有同意你也沒辦法續租啦 對地方政府如果沒有同意的話我們中央絕對不會壓著地方政府同意 對嘛所以你們農田水利署就不能再續租這個宣示性很重要\n491516\t508574\t我們不要這樣子好像畏畏縮縮的要講就講大聲所以我們如果在9年11個月也就是121年4月23日時間到了租任合約到了我們農田水利署允諾不再續租\n511151\t536405\t這個我們拜託農業部這個要堅持然後再來我們在這段時間合約規定清洗是禁用清潔劑的這裡面合約有寫得非常清楚也就是部長剛所說的我們是禁用清潔劑的好這個部分要怎麼控管才能讓民眾安心我們的這個能源署或是我們\n537984\t565454\t我可不可以先說明一下我們就因為灌溉用水的部分其實我們農業部包括我們的那個管理處烏山頭管理處的部分我們大概一年檢測了五次然後在不同點位在哪裡你這個要公開啊烏山頭然後這個所有的檢測在環境部的網站都有公告它一定是用清水的因為大家已經對於烏山頭我們的水師檢測站也會有你要把它公開嘛管理處的網站也會有\n566414\t582039\t那這個網站公開之後那有人說好像真的設了111年設的時候我們的水質有改變有這樣的話嗎有這樣的狀況嗎沒有這樣的沒有這回事情沒有這回事你把它公開啊資訊公開啊\n583530\t604616\t你要跟大家 沒有 部長你資訊那麼多大家不知道哪一個是否我們烏山頭的哪一個是否我們灌溉水源的哪一個是否我們的水池的特別事情已經發生了你慢慢半拍 把資料調出來有 我們都有監測\n607057\t635611\t這些錯假訊息用清潔劑洗其實清潔劑洗含有磷的時候在相關的檢測是檢測得出來的所以我們相關的檢測都是安全的而且是沒有用到清潔劑因為含有磷的部分所以這個部分我們會有處理那你就要把這一塊單獨出來在現在大家紛紛擾擾的時候把它獨立出來做一個非常重要的一個資訊透明再來那我們要怎麼控管水質那我們經濟部\n637330\t665025\t我們也是一樣進到進水廠之前我們都會檢測啊需要檢測是OK的對 沒有資訊資訊在哪裡你們都說有啊我們有在檢測啊問題資訊在哪裡我拜託在今天之後你們兩個部會把這兩個獨立出來讓大家看清楚我們的水質是怎麼檢測的好再來因為我們一年要洗兩次\n665826\t668042\t清洗兩次 這個誰在控管\n669110\t696067\t清洗兩次 這個光電板用清水清洗的光電板好 那拜託我們在清洗的時候我們邀請現場關心的民眾甚至里長去看嘛怎麼清洗的嘛也可以這個樣子把它透明化是不是可以可以把它透明化這樣大家都沒有疑慮了再來我要拜託因為現在還有一個疑問說\n698468\t721034\t這個綠能公司是我們台汽電的孫公司是我們的孫公司所以如果現在民眾這麼樣的反彈我們是不是可以跟他溝通可以做什麼樣的處置來我們能源署台電台電是不是可以台電是不是可以\n723128\t743167\t可以我可以要求台電請台電公司來幫忙那另外這一個剛才講他對個人對他公司名譽的毀損那麼他們在禮拜五已經去警局做登記然後今天法院上班之後他們就會提出那是公司的問題我一直強調公司他自己要維護他的名譽他自己要去維護\n743908\t763275\t可是我們的政府我們要怎麼讓人民安心這是兩鬼兩件事可是我們往往都把它併在一起我們是兩件事所以我說的我們要怎麼去溝通我們台氣店因為既然是孫公司嘛台氣店怎麼做很重要讓人民怎麼安心\n763955\t778734\t就刚才委员讲的清洗刚才农业部说他们会来检查那我们也会透过公司这一边要求他要清洗的时候要找地方的村里长跟民众大家一起来看那避免未来这种谣言再发生\n779625\t794520\t重點就是水庫上方不能再準任何的光電板然後呢我們9年11個月時間到了我們農水署不要再租給他們我相信這樣民眾就會比較安心謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們先請經濟部農業部還有環境部來請經濟部農業部還有環境部\n我們部長還有次長好我想今天我手上有一份陳情書這是最近因為丹納斯颱風之後我們烏山頭水庫的光電板再一次被提醒而且再一次被變成是一個很重要討論的焦點\n那烏山頭水庫的光電板是111年就已經完成的可是為什麼在最近又被提出了就因為丹納斯颱風我們看到所有的光電板因為被風吹了然後很多都破爛不堪大家擔心\n如果在烏山頭水庫上面的光電板也變成這個樣子怎麼辦還好這一次丹納斯颱風烏山頭水庫的光電板沒有造成嚴重的狀況可是他們擔心下一次呢好還有第二個因為有\n有人故意要去提醒說光電板到底怎麼清洗我相信這在過去漁電工生的時候我們也討論過就是說到底清洗光電板是清潔劑還是清水\n但是我們當時候就已經有要求在訂合約的時候一定是不能用清潔劑所以在我們的合約裡面也有訂了不能用清潔劑所以為什麼有這樣的一個聲音跟風向造成這一個禮拜你知道我到地方跑行程所有的人都拉著我說拜託我們都支持民進黨的\n我們的水庫上面怎麼可以放光電板這會造成我們的灌溉水源我們的飲水源會有問題這很可怕你知道嗎在這一個禮拜那個風向\n我們的處理的速度實在是太慢所以我手上拿的是地方人民的陳情書他們陳情的部分我今天把它做成那個讓簡單的文字讓大家看到他們所說的烏山龍水庫它有它民生國安的特殊重要性如果污染了那麼我們怎麼辦\n而且他有灌溉整個雲嘉南平原15萬畝的糧田北至虎尾南至台南安平是台灣最大的穀倉如果這個部分沒有辦法成為民生跟我們國防的最大後盾怎麼辦再來\n我們看到在整個供應水的部分也是依照自來水法跟飲用水管理條例相關的部分都應該禁止所有的興建跟設置行為因為水源保護的重要性再來就是我們是江南農業的命脈民生用水的基石環境生態的屏障\n所以烏山頭水庫設了我們的光電板大家的內心無法承受但是我必須強調這是111年就已經設置好的因為這一次丹納斯颱風再一次被檢討再一次被提醒好他也是\n我們的文化遺產這個文化遺產我們所看到的是烏山頭水庫它是八田羽衣它所留下的重要資產所以這幾點讓六甲的鄉親讓關田的鄉親甚至現在因為他們提出這些聲明變成全部從北至南全部都涵蓋了\n所以部長兩位部長還有我們的環境部的次長這個嚴重性知識體大絕對不是告而已當然今天沒有用化學藥劑而被說有用化學藥劑引發社會的恐慌這個要告業者要告是業者的事可是我們政府要給人民什麼樣的信心指數\n這個很重要啊我們每次都偏廢了然後變成一個風向搞到最後政府無法承擔兩位部長跟市長我要拜託大家我們是不是能夠來做一個宣示因為基本上現在在水庫要設光電板如果我們的政府不同意地方政府不同意其實他是沒有辦法設立的\n包括我們在曾文水庫還有我們的烏山頭水庫的二期都是一樣烏山頭水庫二期因為現在台南市政府不同意然後曾文水庫因為嘉義縣政府不同意所以這個全部停擺\n所以我們是不是做一個宣示如果水庫現在已經引發大家這麼多的爭議我們不論白河水庫在台南白河水庫 烏山頭水庫 曾文水庫 南化水庫我們絕對不會核准任何一個光電執照是不是可以 部長來 部長是 巴委員我想這樣 因為\n就是現在民眾有一些餘力餘力有兩個嘛它穩不穩固嘛那第二個就是這個清洗的時候的方式嘛那我想既有的部分清洗的部分我們會加強監督沒有 部長我告訴你你依照我這個部分後面我們會談到白河烏山頭這是台南白河烏山頭真聞難話\n因為基本上現在沒有一個縣市政府敢准地方政府沒有核准我們就不可能所以我們就宣誓 我們為什麼都不敢講宣誓說如果在地方政府都不同意的前提之下我們不可能核准任何一張的我們在水庫上面的光電執照地方政府不同意的話\n對不對 好 我們就訂了這個嘛所以地方政府 由地方政府把關各縣市政府在我們的水庫上面 包括因為真文有嘉義縣跟台南市嘛所以我們在整個的氛圍當中白河 烏山頭 真文 南化只要各縣市政府不同意我們絕對不會核准任何一張在水庫上方的光電執照OK吧\n好第二個部分就是說這是農業部的農業部因為烏山頭的光電板是在111年完成依照租賃合約的時間是9年11個月這我對你們的合約說出來所以租賃9年11個月我在這裡要求期間夠不要再續租了不要再續租了可以嗎\n可以嗎 我想我們 電證我如果沒有同意你也沒辦法續租啦 對地方政府如果沒有同意的話我們中央絕對不會壓著地方政府同意 對嘛所以你們農田水利署就不能再續租這個宣示性很重要\n我們不要這樣子好像畏畏縮縮的要講就講大聲所以我們如果在9年11個月也就是121年4月23日時間到了租任合約到了我們農田水利署允諾不再續租\n這個我們拜託農業部這個要堅持然後再來我們在這段時間合約規定清洗是禁用清潔劑的這裡面合約有寫得非常清楚也就是部長剛所說的我們是禁用清潔劑的好這個部分要怎麼控管才能讓民眾安心我們的這個能源署或是我們\n我可不可以先說明一下我們就因為灌溉用水的部分其實我們農業部包括我們的那個管理處烏山頭管理處的部分我們大概一年檢測了五次然後在不同點位在哪裡你這個要公開啊烏山頭然後這個所有的檢測在環境部的網站都有公告它一定是用清水的因為大家已經對於烏山頭我們的水師檢測站也會有你要把它公開嘛管理處的網站也會有\n那這個網站公開之後那有人說好像真的設了111年設的時候我們的水質有改變有這樣的話嗎有這樣的狀況嗎沒有這樣的沒有這回事情沒有這回事你把它公開啊資訊公開啊\n你要跟大家 沒有 部長你資訊那麼多大家不知道哪一個是否我們烏山頭的哪一個是否我們灌溉水源的哪一個是否我們的水池的特別事情已經發生了你慢慢半拍 把資料調出來有 我們都有監測\n這些錯假訊息用清潔劑洗其實清潔劑洗含有磷的時候在相關的檢測是檢測得出來的所以我們相關的檢測都是安全的而且是沒有用到清潔劑因為含有磷的部分所以這個部分我們會有處理那你就要把這一塊單獨出來在現在大家紛紛擾擾的時候把它獨立出來做一個非常重要的一個資訊透明再來那我們要怎麼控管水質那我們經濟部\n我們也是一樣進到進水廠之前我們都會檢測啊需要檢測是OK的對 沒有資訊資訊在哪裡你們都說有啊我們有在檢測啊問題資訊在哪裡我拜託在今天之後你們兩個部會把這兩個獨立出來讓大家看清楚我們的水質是怎麼檢測的好再來因為我們一年要洗兩次\n清洗兩次 這個誰在控管\n清洗兩次 這個光電板用清水清洗的光電板好 那拜託我們在清洗的時候我們邀請現場關心的民眾甚至里長去看嘛怎麼清洗的嘛也可以這個樣子把它透明化是不是可以可以把它透明化這樣大家都沒有疑慮了再來我要拜託因為現在還有一個疑問說\n這個綠能公司是我們台汽電的孫公司是我們的孫公司所以如果現在民眾這麼樣的反彈我們是不是可以跟他溝通可以做什麼樣的處置來我們能源署台電台電是不是可以台電是不是可以\n可以我可以要求台電請台電公司來幫忙那另外這一個剛才講他對個人對他公司名譽的毀損那麼他們在禮拜五已經去警局做登記然後今天法院上班之後他們就會提出那是公司的問題我一直強調公司他自己要維護他的名譽他自己要去維護\n可是我們的政府我們要怎麼讓人民安心這是兩鬼兩件事可是我們往往都把它併在一起我們是兩件事所以我說的我們要怎麼去溝通我們台氣店因為既然是孫公司嘛台氣店怎麼做很重要讓人民怎麼安心\n就刚才委员讲的清洗刚才农业部说他们会来检查那我们也会透过公司这一边要求他要清洗的时候要找地方的村里长跟民众大家一起来看那避免未来这种谣言再发生\n重點就是水庫上方不能再準任何的光電板然後呢我們9年11個月時間到了我們農水署不要再租給他們我相信這樣民眾就會比較安心謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.485 --> 00:15.729\n謝謝主席我們先請經濟部農業部還有環境部來請經濟部農業部還有環境部\n\n00:23.067 --> 00:43.237\n我們部長還有次長好我想今天我手上有一份陳情書這是最近因為丹納斯颱風之後我們烏山頭水庫的光電板再一次被提醒而且再一次被變成是一個很重要討論的焦點\n\n00:44.838 --> 01:04.190\n那烏山頭水庫的光電板是111年就已經完成的可是為什麼在最近又被提出了就因為丹納斯颱風我們看到所有的光電板因為被風吹了然後很多都破爛不堪大家擔心\n\n01:05.091 --> 01:24.230\n如果在烏山頭水庫上面的光電板也變成這個樣子怎麼辦還好這一次丹納斯颱風烏山頭水庫的光電板沒有造成嚴重的狀況可是他們擔心下一次呢好還有第二個因為有\n\n01:26.072 --> 01:40.743\n有人故意要去提醒說光電板到底怎麼清洗我相信這在過去漁電工生的時候我們也討論過就是說到底清洗光電板是清潔劑還是清水\n\n01:42.366 --> 02:06.959\n但是我們當時候就已經有要求在訂合約的時候一定是不能用清潔劑所以在我們的合約裡面也有訂了不能用清潔劑所以為什麼有這樣的一個聲音跟風向造成這一個禮拜你知道我到地方跑行程所有的人都拉著我說拜託我們都支持民進黨的\n\n02:08.320 --> 02:26.352\n我們的水庫上面怎麼可以放光電板這會造成我們的灌溉水源我們的飲水源會有問題這很可怕你知道嗎在這一個禮拜那個風向\n\n02:27.728 --> 02:52.485\n我們的處理的速度實在是太慢所以我手上拿的是地方人民的陳情書他們陳情的部分我今天把它做成那個讓簡單的文字讓大家看到他們所說的烏山龍水庫它有它民生國安的特殊重要性如果污染了那麼我們怎麼辦\n\n02:54.028 --> 03:11.670\n而且他有灌溉整個雲嘉南平原15萬畝的糧田北至虎尾南至台南安平是台灣最大的穀倉如果這個部分沒有辦法成為民生跟我們國防的最大後盾怎麼辦再來\n\n03:13.032 --> 03:37.971\n我們看到在整個供應水的部分也是依照自來水法跟飲用水管理條例相關的部分都應該禁止所有的興建跟設置行為因為水源保護的重要性再來就是我們是江南農業的命脈民生用水的基石環境生態的屏障\n\n03:38.892 --> 03:58.198\n所以烏山頭水庫設了我們的光電板大家的內心無法承受但是我必須強調這是111年就已經設置好的因為這一次丹納斯颱風再一次被檢討再一次被提醒好他也是\n\n03:59.438 --> 04:25.678\n我們的文化遺產這個文化遺產我們所看到的是烏山頭水庫它是八田羽衣它所留下的重要資產所以這幾點讓六甲的鄉親讓關田的鄉親甚至現在因為他們提出這些聲明變成全部從北至南全部都涵蓋了\n\n04:26.897 --> 04:53.607\n所以部長兩位部長還有我們的環境部的次長這個嚴重性知識體大絕對不是告而已當然今天沒有用化學藥劑而被說有用化學藥劑引發社會的恐慌這個要告業者要告是業者的事可是我們政府要給人民什麼樣的信心指數\n\n04:55.189 --> 05:21.726\n這個很重要啊我們每次都偏廢了然後變成一個風向搞到最後政府無法承擔兩位部長跟市長我要拜託大家我們是不是能夠來做一個宣示因為基本上現在在水庫要設光電板如果我們的政府不同意地方政府不同意其實他是沒有辦法設立的\n\n05:22.646 --> 05:41.915\n包括我們在曾文水庫還有我們的烏山頭水庫的二期都是一樣烏山頭水庫二期因為現在台南市政府不同意然後曾文水庫因為嘉義縣政府不同意所以這個全部停擺\n\n05:43.197 --> 06:08.530\n所以我們是不是做一個宣示如果水庫現在已經引發大家這麼多的爭議我們不論白河水庫在台南白河水庫烏山頭水庫曾文水庫南化水庫我們絕對不會核准任何一個光電執照是不是可以部長來部長是巴委員我想這樣因為\n\n06:10.936 --> 06:32.063\n就是現在民眾有一些餘力餘力有兩個嘛它穩不穩固嘛那第二個就是這個清洗的時候的方式嘛那我想既有的部分清洗的部分我們會加強監督沒有部長我告訴你你依照我這個部分後面我們會談到白河烏山頭這是台南白河烏山頭真聞難話\n\n06:34.180 --> 06:58.133\n因為基本上現在沒有一個縣市政府敢准地方政府沒有核准我們就不可能所以我們就宣誓我們為什麼都不敢講宣誓說如果在地方政府都不同意的前提之下我們不可能核准任何一張的我們在水庫上面的光電執照地方政府不同意的話\n\n06:59.213 --> 07:27.384\n對不對好我們就訂了這個嘛所以地方政府由地方政府把關各縣市政府在我們的水庫上面包括因為真文有嘉義縣跟台南市嘛所以我們在整個的氛圍當中白河烏山頭真文南化只要各縣市政府不同意我們絕對不會核准任何一張在水庫上方的光電執照OK吧\n\n07:28.024 --> 07:54.309\n好第二個部分就是說這是農業部的農業部因為烏山頭的光電板是在111年完成依照租賃合約的時間是9年11個月這我對你們的合約說出來所以租賃9年11個月我在這裡要求期間夠不要再續租了不要再續租了可以嗎\n\n07:56.206 --> 08:10.482\n可以嗎我想我們電證我如果沒有同意你也沒辦法續租啦對地方政府如果沒有同意的話我們中央絕對不會壓著地方政府同意對嘛所以你們農田水利署就不能再續租這個宣示性很重要\n\n08:11.516 --> 08:28.574\n我們不要這樣子好像畏畏縮縮的要講就講大聲所以我們如果在9年11個月也就是121年4月23日時間到了租任合約到了我們農田水利署允諾不再續租\n\n08:31.151 --> 08:56.405\n這個我們拜託農業部這個要堅持然後再來我們在這段時間合約規定清洗是禁用清潔劑的這裡面合約有寫得非常清楚也就是部長剛所說的我們是禁用清潔劑的好這個部分要怎麼控管才能讓民眾安心我們的這個能源署或是我們\n\n08:57.984 --> 09:25.454\n我可不可以先說明一下我們就因為灌溉用水的部分其實我們農業部包括我們的那個管理處烏山頭管理處的部分我們大概一年檢測了五次然後在不同點位在哪裡你這個要公開啊烏山頭然後這個所有的檢測在環境部的網站都有公告它一定是用清水的因為大家已經對於烏山頭我們的水師檢測站也會有你要把它公開嘛管理處的網站也會有\n\n09:26.414 --> 09:42.039\n那這個網站公開之後那有人說好像真的設了111年設的時候我們的水質有改變有這樣的話嗎有這樣的狀況嗎沒有這樣的沒有這回事情沒有這回事你把它公開啊資訊公開啊\n\n09:43.530 --> 10:04.616\n你要跟大家沒有部長你資訊那麼多大家不知道哪一個是否我們烏山頭的哪一個是否我們灌溉水源的哪一個是否我們的水池的特別事情已經發生了你慢慢半拍把資料調出來有我們都有監測\n\n10:07.057 --> 10:35.611\n這些錯假訊息用清潔劑洗其實清潔劑洗含有磷的時候在相關的檢測是檢測得出來的所以我們相關的檢測都是安全的而且是沒有用到清潔劑因為含有磷的部分所以這個部分我們會有處理那你就要把這一塊單獨出來在現在大家紛紛擾擾的時候把它獨立出來做一個非常重要的一個資訊透明再來那我們要怎麼控管水質那我們經濟部\n\n10:37.330 --> 11:05.025\n我們也是一樣進到進水廠之前我們都會檢測啊需要檢測是OK的對沒有資訊資訊在哪裡你們都說有啊我們有在檢測啊問題資訊在哪裡我拜託在今天之後你們兩個部會把這兩個獨立出來讓大家看清楚我們的水質是怎麼檢測的好再來因為我們一年要洗兩次\n\n11:05.826 --> 11:08.042\n清洗兩次這個誰在控管\n\n11:09.110 --> 11:36.067\n清洗兩次這個光電板用清水清洗的光電板好那拜託我們在清洗的時候我們邀請現場關心的民眾甚至里長去看嘛怎麼清洗的嘛也可以這個樣子把它透明化是不是可以可以把它透明化這樣大家都沒有疑慮了再來我要拜託因為現在還有一個疑問說\n\n11:38.468 --> 12:01.034\n這個綠能公司是我們台汽電的孫公司是我們的孫公司所以如果現在民眾這麼樣的反彈我們是不是可以跟他溝通可以做什麼樣的處置來我們能源署台電台電是不是可以台電是不是可以\n\n12:03.128 --> 12:23.167\n可以我可以要求台電請台電公司來幫忙那另外這一個剛才講他對個人對他公司名譽的毀損那麼他們在禮拜五已經去警局做登記然後今天法院上班之後他們就會提出那是公司的問題我一直強調公司他自己要維護他的名譽他自己要去維護\n\n12:23.908 --> 12:43.275\n可是我們的政府我們要怎麼讓人民安心這是兩鬼兩件事可是我們往往都把它併在一起我們是兩件事所以我說的我們要怎麼去溝通我們台氣店因為既然是孫公司嘛台氣店怎麼做很重要讓人民怎麼安心\n\n12:43.955 --> 12:58.734\n就刚才委员讲的清洗刚才农业部说他们会来检查那我们也会透过公司这一边要求他要清洗的时候要找地方的村里长跟民众大家一起来看那避免未来这种谣言再发生\n\n12:59.625 --> 13:14.520\n重點就是水庫上方不能再準任何的光電板然後呢我們9年11個月時間到了我們農水署不要再租給他們我相信這樣民眾就會比較安心謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.485,"end":15.729,"text":"謝謝主席我們先請經濟部農業部還有環境部來請經濟部農業部還有環境部"},{"start":23.067,"end":43.237,"text":"我們部長還有次長好我想今天我手上有一份陳情書這是最近因為丹納斯颱風之後我們烏山頭水庫的光電板再一次被提醒而且再一次被變成是一個很重要討論的焦點"},{"start":44.838,"end":64.19,"text":"那烏山頭水庫的光電板是111年就已經完成的可是為什麼在最近又被提出了就因為丹納斯颱風我們看到所有的光電板因為被風吹了然後很多都破爛不堪大家擔心"},{"start":65.091,"end":84.23,"text":"如果在烏山頭水庫上面的光電板也變成這個樣子怎麼辦還好這一次丹納斯颱風烏山頭水庫的光電板沒有造成嚴重的狀況可是他們擔心下一次呢好還有第二個因為有"},{"start":86.072,"end":100.743,"text":"有人故意要去提醒說光電板到底怎麼清洗我相信這在過去漁電工生的時候我們也討論過就是說到底清洗光電板是清潔劑還是清水"},{"start":102.366,"end":126.959,"text":"但是我們當時候就已經有要求在訂合約的時候一定是不能用清潔劑所以在我們的合約裡面也有訂了不能用清潔劑所以為什麼有這樣的一個聲音跟風向造成這一個禮拜你知道我到地方跑行程所有的人都拉著我說拜託我們都支持民進黨的"},{"start":128.32,"end":146.352,"text":"我們的水庫上面怎麼可以放光電板這會造成我們的灌溉水源我們的飲水源會有問題這很可怕你知道嗎在這一個禮拜那個風向"},{"start":147.728,"end":172.485,"text":"我們的處理的速度實在是太慢所以我手上拿的是地方人民的陳情書他們陳情的部分我今天把它做成那個讓簡單的文字讓大家看到他們所說的烏山龍水庫它有它民生國安的特殊重要性如果污染了那麼我們怎麼辦"},{"start":174.028,"end":191.67,"text":"而且他有灌溉整個雲嘉南平原15萬畝的糧田北至虎尾南至台南安平是台灣最大的穀倉如果這個部分沒有辦法成為民生跟我們國防的最大後盾怎麼辦再來"},{"start":193.032,"end":217.971,"text":"我們看到在整個供應水的部分也是依照自來水法跟飲用水管理條例相關的部分都應該禁止所有的興建跟設置行為因為水源保護的重要性再來就是我們是江南農業的命脈民生用水的基石環境生態的屏障"},{"start":218.892,"end":238.198,"text":"所以烏山頭水庫設了我們的光電板大家的內心無法承受但是我必須強調這是111年就已經設置好的因為這一次丹納斯颱風再一次被檢討再一次被提醒好他也是"},{"start":239.438,"end":265.678,"text":"我們的文化遺產這個文化遺產我們所看到的是烏山頭水庫它是八田羽衣它所留下的重要資產所以這幾點讓六甲的鄉親讓關田的鄉親甚至現在因為他們提出這些聲明變成全部從北至南全部都涵蓋了"},{"start":266.897,"end":293.607,"text":"所以部長兩位部長還有我們的環境部的次長這個嚴重性知識體大絕對不是告而已當然今天沒有用化學藥劑而被說有用化學藥劑引發社會的恐慌這個要告業者要告是業者的事可是我們政府要給人民什麼樣的信心指數"},{"start":295.189,"end":321.726,"text":"這個很重要啊我們每次都偏廢了然後變成一個風向搞到最後政府無法承擔兩位部長跟市長我要拜託大家我們是不是能夠來做一個宣示因為基本上現在在水庫要設光電板如果我們的政府不同意地方政府不同意其實他是沒有辦法設立的"},{"start":322.646,"end":341.915,"text":"包括我們在曾文水庫還有我們的烏山頭水庫的二期都是一樣烏山頭水庫二期因為現在台南市政府不同意然後曾文水庫因為嘉義縣政府不同意所以這個全部停擺"},{"start":343.197,"end":368.53,"text":"所以我們是不是做一個宣示如果水庫現在已經引發大家這麼多的爭議我們不論白河水庫在台南白河水庫 烏山頭水庫 曾文水庫 南化水庫我們絕對不會核准任何一個光電執照是不是可以 部長來 部長是 巴委員我想這樣 因為"},{"start":370.936,"end":392.063,"text":"就是現在民眾有一些餘力餘力有兩個嘛它穩不穩固嘛那第二個就是這個清洗的時候的方式嘛那我想既有的部分清洗的部分我們會加強監督沒有 部長我告訴你你依照我這個部分後面我們會談到白河烏山頭這是台南白河烏山頭真聞難話"},{"start":394.18,"end":418.133,"text":"因為基本上現在沒有一個縣市政府敢准地方政府沒有核准我們就不可能所以我們就宣誓 我們為什麼都不敢講宣誓說如果在地方政府都不同意的前提之下我們不可能核准任何一張的我們在水庫上面的光電執照地方政府不同意的話"},{"start":419.213,"end":447.384,"text":"對不對 好 我們就訂了這個嘛所以地方政府 由地方政府把關各縣市政府在我們的水庫上面 包括因為真文有嘉義縣跟台南市嘛所以我們在整個的氛圍當中白河 烏山頭 真文 南化只要各縣市政府不同意我們絕對不會核准任何一張在水庫上方的光電執照OK吧"},{"start":448.024,"end":474.309,"text":"好第二個部分就是說這是農業部的農業部因為烏山頭的光電板是在111年完成依照租賃合約的時間是9年11個月這我對你們的合約說出來所以租賃9年11個月我在這裡要求期間夠不要再續租了不要再續租了可以嗎"},{"start":476.206,"end":490.482,"text":"可以嗎 我想我們 電證我如果沒有同意你也沒辦法續租啦 對地方政府如果沒有同意的話我們中央絕對不會壓著地方政府同意 對嘛所以你們農田水利署就不能再續租這個宣示性很重要"},{"start":491.516,"end":508.574,"text":"我們不要這樣子好像畏畏縮縮的要講就講大聲所以我們如果在9年11個月也就是121年4月23日時間到了租任合約到了我們農田水利署允諾不再續租"},{"start":511.151,"end":536.405,"text":"這個我們拜託農業部這個要堅持然後再來我們在這段時間合約規定清洗是禁用清潔劑的這裡面合約有寫得非常清楚也就是部長剛所說的我們是禁用清潔劑的好這個部分要怎麼控管才能讓民眾安心我們的這個能源署或是我們"},{"start":537.984,"end":565.454,"text":"我可不可以先說明一下我們就因為灌溉用水的部分其實我們農業部包括我們的那個管理處烏山頭管理處的部分我們大概一年檢測了五次然後在不同點位在哪裡你這個要公開啊烏山頭然後這個所有的檢測在環境部的網站都有公告它一定是用清水的因為大家已經對於烏山頭我們的水師檢測站也會有你要把它公開嘛管理處的網站也會有"},{"start":566.414,"end":582.039,"text":"那這個網站公開之後那有人說好像真的設了111年設的時候我們的水質有改變有這樣的話嗎有這樣的狀況嗎沒有這樣的沒有這回事情沒有這回事你把它公開啊資訊公開啊"},{"start":583.53,"end":604.616,"text":"你要跟大家 沒有 部長你資訊那麼多大家不知道哪一個是否我們烏山頭的哪一個是否我們灌溉水源的哪一個是否我們的水池的特別事情已經發生了你慢慢半拍 把資料調出來有 我們都有監測"},{"start":607.057,"end":635.611,"text":"這些錯假訊息用清潔劑洗其實清潔劑洗含有磷的時候在相關的檢測是檢測得出來的所以我們相關的檢測都是安全的而且是沒有用到清潔劑因為含有磷的部分所以這個部分我們會有處理那你就要把這一塊單獨出來在現在大家紛紛擾擾的時候把它獨立出來做一個非常重要的一個資訊透明再來那我們要怎麼控管水質那我們經濟部"},{"start":637.33,"end":665.025,"text":"我們也是一樣進到進水廠之前我們都會檢測啊需要檢測是OK的對 沒有資訊資訊在哪裡你們都說有啊我們有在檢測啊問題資訊在哪裡我拜託在今天之後你們兩個部會把這兩個獨立出來讓大家看清楚我們的水質是怎麼檢測的好再來因為我們一年要洗兩次"},{"start":665.826,"end":668.042,"text":"清洗兩次 這個誰在控管"},{"start":669.11,"end":696.067,"text":"清洗兩次 這個光電板用清水清洗的光電板好 那拜託我們在清洗的時候我們邀請現場關心的民眾甚至里長去看嘛怎麼清洗的嘛也可以這個樣子把它透明化是不是可以可以把它透明化這樣大家都沒有疑慮了再來我要拜託因為現在還有一個疑問說"},{"start":698.468,"end":721.034,"text":"這個綠能公司是我們台汽電的孫公司是我們的孫公司所以如果現在民眾這麼樣的反彈我們是不是可以跟他溝通可以做什麼樣的處置來我們能源署台電台電是不是可以台電是不是可以"},{"start":723.128,"end":743.167,"text":"可以我可以要求台電請台電公司來幫忙那另外這一個剛才講他對個人對他公司名譽的毀損那麼他們在禮拜五已經去警局做登記然後今天法院上班之後他們就會提出那是公司的問題我一直強調公司他自己要維護他的名譽他自己要去維護"},{"start":743.908,"end":763.275,"text":"可是我們的政府我們要怎麼讓人民安心這是兩鬼兩件事可是我們往往都把它併在一起我們是兩件事所以我說的我們要怎麼去溝通我們台氣店因為既然是孫公司嘛台氣店怎麼做很重要讓人民怎麼安心"},{"start":763.955,"end":778.734,"text":"就刚才委员讲的清洗刚才农业部说他们会来检查那我们也会透过公司这一边要求他要清洗的时候要找地方的村里长跟民众大家一起来看那避免未来这种谣言再发生"},{"start":779.625,"end":794.52,"text":"重點就是水庫上方不能再準任何的光電板然後呢我們9年11個月時間到了我們農水署不要再租給他們我相信這樣民眾就會比較安心謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":599,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時39分）謝謝主席，我們先請經濟部、農業部，還有環境部。"],["主席（邱委員議瑩代）：請經濟部、農業部、還有環境部。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["龔部長明鑫：召委好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長、次長好。今天我手上有一份陳情書，這是最近因為丹娜絲颱風之後，我們烏山頭水庫的光電板再次被提起，而且再次變成一個很重要的討論焦點。烏山頭水庫的光電板是111年就已經完成的，可是為什麼在最近又被提出了？就因為丹娜絲颱風，我們看到所有的光電板，因為被風吹了，很多都破爛不堪，大家擔心如果在烏山頭水庫上面的光電板也變成這個樣子，該怎麼辦？還好這一次丹娜絲颱風，烏山頭水庫的光電板沒有造成嚴重的狀況，可是他們擔心下一次呢？","還有第二個，因為有人故意要去提醒說，光電板到底怎麼清洗？我相信這在過去漁電共生的時候，我們也討論過，就是清洗光電板到底是用清潔劑還是清水？我們當時就已經有要求，在訂合約的時候，一定不能用清潔劑，所以在你們的合約裡面也有訂了不能用清潔劑的規定，為什麼有這樣的聲音跟風向，你知道我到地方跑行程，所有的人都拉著我說：「拜託！我們都支持民進黨的，我們的水庫上面怎麼可以放光電板？這會造成我們的灌溉水源，我們的飲水源會有問題。」這很可怕，你知道嗎？這一個禮拜的風向，你們處理的速度實在是太慢，所以我手上拿的是地方人民的陳情書，他們陳情的部分，我今天把它做成簡單的文字讓大家看到，他們所說的烏山頭水庫是有它民生、國安的特殊重要性，如果污染了，我們怎麼辦？而且它灌溉了整個雲嘉南平原15萬畝的良田，北至虎尾，南至臺南安平，是臺灣最大的穀倉，如果這個部分沒有辦法成為民生跟國防的最大後盾怎麼辦？","再來，有關於整個供應水的部分，依照自來水法跟飲用水管理條例相關的法規，因為水源保護的重要性，都應該禁止所有的興建跟設置行為。再來，我們是嘉南農業的命脈，民生用水的基石、環境生態的屏障，所以烏山頭水庫設了光電板，大家的內心無法承受，但是我必須強調這是111年就已經設置好的，因為這一次丹娜絲颱風再次被檢討、再次被提醒。它也是我們的文化遺產，我們所看到的這座文化遺產「烏山頭水庫」是八田與一所留下的重要資產，所以這幾點讓六甲的鄉親、讓官田的鄉親……甚至現在因為他們提出這些聲明，變成從北至南全部都涵蓋了。","所以兩位部長，還有環境部的次長，這個嚴重性茲事體大，絕對不是告而已，當然今天沒有用化學藥劑，而被說有用化學藥劑，引發社會的恐慌這個要告，業者要告是業者的事，可是我們政府要給人民什麼樣的信心指數是很重要的，但我們每次都偏廢了，然後變成一個風向，搞到最後政府無法承擔。兩位部長跟次長，我要拜託大家，我們是不是能夠來做一個宣示？因為基本上，現在在水庫要設光電板，如果地方政府不同意，其實它是沒有辦法設立的，包括我們在曾文水庫，還有烏山頭水庫的二期都一樣，烏山頭水庫二期是因為現在臺南市政府不同意，而曾文水庫是因為嘉義縣政府不同意，所以這個全部停擺，我們是不是做一個宣示？如果水庫現在已經引發大家這麼多的爭議，不論臺南的白河水庫、烏山頭水庫、曾文水庫、南化水庫，我們絕對不會核准任何一個光電執照，是不是可以？請教部長。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，因為現在民眾有一些疑慮，疑慮有兩個，第一個是它穩不穩固，第二個是清洗時候的方式嘛！我想既有清洗的部分，我們會加強監督……我們也歡迎……"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有。部長，我告訴你，你依照我這個部分來看，後面我們會談到，臺南白河、烏山頭、曾文、南化，因為基本上現在沒有一個縣市政府敢准耶！"],["龔部長明鑫：程序上，地方政府沒有核准，我們就不可能審查，所以這沒有審查的問題。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，所以我們就宣示嘛！你們為什麼都不敢講，宣示說：「如果在地方政府都不同意的前提之下，我們不可能核准任何一張設置在水庫上面的光電執照。」對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對啊！地方政府不同意的話，我們就不會收件。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，我們就訂了這個嘛！所以地方的由地方政府把關，各縣市政府在我們的水庫上面……因為曾文水庫範圍涵蓋嘉義縣跟臺南市嘛！所以在整個的氛圍當中，白河、烏山頭、曾文、南化等水庫，只要各縣市政府不同意，我們絕對不會核准任何一張在水庫上方的光電執照，OK吧？"],["龔部長明鑫：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：第二個是有關於農業部的部分，因為烏山頭的光電板是在111年完成，依照租賃合約的時間是9年11個月，這是我從你們的合約節錄出來的，所以這租賃9年11個月，我在這裡要求期限到了，不要再續租了，可以嗎？等於我們政府不同意，他們也沒辦法續租啦！"],["陳部長駿季：對，地方政府如果沒有同意的話，我們中央絕對不會壓著地方政府同意。"],["陳委員亭妃：對嘛！所以你們農田水利署就不能再續租，這個宣示性很重要，你們不要這樣好像畏畏縮縮的，要講就講大聲一點，如果在這9年11個月期滿，也就是121年4月23日，時間到了、租賃合約到了，你們農田水利署允諾不再續租，這部分我們拜託農業部要堅持。再來，我們在這段時間，合約規定清洗是禁用清潔劑的，這合約裡有寫得非常清楚，也就是部長剛所提到的，我們是禁用清潔劑的。好！這個部分要怎麼控管，才能讓民眾安心？請教農業部或是能源署，這要怎麼處理？"],["陳部長駿季：我先說明一下，因為灌溉用水的部分，其實我們農業部，包括烏山頭管理處，我們大概一年檢測了5次，然後在不同點位……"],["陳委員亭妃：在哪裡？你們這個要公開啊！"],["陳部長駿季：烏山頭水庫……這些所有的檢測在環境部的網站都有公告，它一定是用清水的。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為大家已經對於烏山頭……"],["陳部長駿季：我們的水質檢測站也會有。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，你要把它公開嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：管理處的網站也會有。"],["陳委員亭妃：好。這個網站公開之後，有人說好像在111年設了以後，我們的水質有改變，有這樣的話嗎？有這樣的狀況嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有這回事情。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有這回事情，你把它公開啊、資訊公開啊！你要跟大家……"],["陳部長駿季：我們資訊有公開啊！"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，你資訊那麼多，大家不知道哪一個是for烏山頭的？哪一個是for灌溉水源的？哪一個是for水質的？"],["陳部長駿季：我知道，我們會把烏山頭的部分特別拉出來，特別是有設置光電板的部分。"],["陳委員亭妃：事情已經發生了，你們還慢半拍，把資料調出來，「有！我們都有監測。」"],["陳部長駿季：這些錯假訊息，其實用含有磷的清潔劑在清洗的時候，在相關檢測是檢測的出來的，所以我們相關的檢測結果都是安全的，而且沒有用到清潔劑，因為含有磷的部分……所以針對這部分，我們會來處理。"],["陳委員亭妃：好。部長，你就要把這一塊單獨列出來，在現在大家紛紛擾擾的時候，把它獨立出來，做一個非常重要的資訊透明。再來，你們要怎麼控管水質？請教經濟部，在喝的部分呢？。"],["龔部長明鑫：有，我們也是一樣。它進到淨水廠之前，我們都會檢測，到目前為止，檢測都是OK的。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，資訊呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：OK，好。"],["陳委員亭妃：請教資訊在哪裡？"],["龔部長明鑫：我們有公布……"],["陳委員亭妃：你們都說：有啊！我們有在檢測啊。問題是資訊在哪裡？拜託！在今天之後……"],["龔部長明鑫：好，我們會再特別說明。"],["陳委員亭妃：你們兩個部會把這兩個獨立出來，讓大家看清楚……"],["龔部長明鑫：好的。"],["陳委員亭妃：你們的水質是怎麼檢測的。再來，因為你們一年要清洗兩次，請教用清水清洗的光電板，這個誰在控管？"],["陳部長駿季：由我們管理處在控管。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，拜託！你們在清洗的時候，邀請現場關心的民眾，甚至里長去看怎麼清洗的嘛！也可以這個樣子把它透明化，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：可以。"],["陳委員亭妃：可以把它透明化，這樣大家都沒有疑慮了。再來，我要拜託，因為現在還有一個疑問是說，這家綠能公司是台汽電的孫公司，所以如果現在民眾這麼反彈，你們是不是可以跟他們溝通，看可以做什麼樣的處置？能源署。台電是不是可以？"],["李署長君禮：可以，我要求台電，請台電公司來幫忙。另外，剛才講對它公司名譽的毀損，他們在禮拜五已經去警局登記，今天法院上班之後，他們就會提出告訴……"],["陳委員亭妃：那是公司的問題。"],["李署長君禮：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我一直強調，公司自己要維護它的名譽，它自己要去維護。"],["李署長君禮：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們的政府，我們要怎麼讓人民安心，這是兩軌、兩件事。可是我們往往都把它併在一起，是兩件事。"],["李署長君禮：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以像我說的，我們要怎麼去溝通。因為既然是台汽電的孫公司，台汽電怎麼做很重要，怎麼讓人民安心？"],["李署長君禮：是，就剛才委員講的清洗，剛才農業部說他們會來檢查，我們也會透過公司這邊，要求它清洗的時候要找地方的村里長跟民眾，大家一起來看，避免未來這種謠言再發生。"],["陳委員亭妃：重點就是水庫上方不能再准任何光電板，然後9年11個月的時間到了，農水署不要再租給他們，我相信這樣民眾就會比較安心。謝謝。"],["李署長君禮：謝謝。"],["主席（陳委員亭妃）：我們先確定議事錄，不好意思。上次的會議議事錄有無錯誤？（無）沒有的話，議事錄確定，謝謝。","現在請張啓楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":188,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-2","speakers":["陳亭妃","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","呂玉玲","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","賴瑞隆","賴惠員","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蔡易餘","盧縣一","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","張嘉郡","蘇清泉","陳超明","沈伯洋","高金素梅"],"page_start":101,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長、經濟部部長、原住民族委員會首長、國家通訊傳播委員會首長、行政院公共工\n程委員會首長、行政院主計總處首長、內政部首長、教育部首長、交通部首長、環境部首長、文\n化部首長、勞動部首長及衛生福利部首長就「丹娜絲颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建情形」進行報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00003"}}}