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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 684.28, \"end\": 684.36, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 684.36, \"end\": 684.58, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 684.58, \"end\": 685.101, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 685.101, \"end\": 685.461, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 685.461, \"end\": 685.801, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 685.801, \"end\": 685.921, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 685.921, \"end\": 686.101, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 686.101, \"end\": 686.162, \"score\": 0.659}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 686.162, \"end\": 686.182, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,492 --> 00:00:02,748\n我們請彭主委我們請彭主委\n\n2\n00:00:06,823 --> 00:00:31,910\n主委好明年就要接軌F17有關於新的債務清場的能力也要一同面對最近常常聽到我們金港會對於整個監理寬容的相關的政策的訊息的釋放聽起來是有寬有鬆有寬有窄有緊有鬆標準我是不曉得在哪裡\n\n3\n00:00:33,670 --> 00:00:48,719\n寬容的尺度之間要如何拿捏因為畢竟對象上每一個財務能力健全度不一嘛你如果包山包海你可能就會變成過度寬容對不對你如果區域嚴格的話那恐怕你要面對的問題就會更多\n\n4\n00:00:50,760 --> 00:01:06,822\n那要如何再透過這種方式來分級管理又不違反原則的情況底下我覺得現階段最重要關鍵我看起來如果就極端值來看的話現在普遍看到就是331這個美邦的這個資本失足率長期來累積起來已經有連續7期\n\n5\n00:01:08,224 --> 00:01:24,321\n你如果連這個都可以接軌的話那顯然就會過度寬容你如果不接軌的話那你要如何面對這個要去清楚我覺得最基本一個原則我記得我之前問過黃天牧主委也就是說如果要接軌之前第一個RBC的部分要提高到200\n\n6\n00:01:25,922 --> 00:01:46,354\n第二個呢要先自住金管會才會提供人住這個態度有沒有轉變其實沒有轉變沒有轉變那沒有轉變的情況底下呢商商美邦連續七期RBC已經落入資本不足那最近這個金管會裡面說要求他們簽署一個增資承諾書\n\n7\n00:01:48,269 --> 00:02:06,358\n問題是連續三年半都提不出來啦你現在就有辦法嗎這是第一個問題他有沒有能力你要做一個判準你要做一個判準你要給他們多少門檻還有期限才能達到所謂的這個原則不會變嘛主委我跟委員稍微報告一下\n\n8\n00:02:07,538 --> 00:02:24,827\n其實受險業的資本氏族率跟他比如說我們先談這個案子啦你不要再談其他的教科書的原則啦這一定要先講跟委員報告一下大家會以為就是說你資本氏族率不到200你就必須出場不是\n\n9\n00:02:25,547 --> 00:02:38,992\n資本失足率就是假設我最簡單的概念資本減掉負債你還要有一定的buffer你buffer低於我警戒值我叫你改善並不是這家公司不能經營我想這是一個前提我現在不是在談原理原則我談說這個狀況你要怎麼處理不會影響到你監理寬容的尺度的拿捏那當然這是\n\n10\n00:02:46,375 --> 00:03:06,582\n這也是我們就是說怎麼做到公平接軌這是過去我們在這一年來我們每個禮拜密集開會在討論的重點所以剛剛講委員剛剛講說RBC跟這個接軌過程當中會不會因為就像比如這張投影片講說財務不合格也能適用監理寬容這應該要回答兩個問題就是是不是用一樣的監理寬容\n\n11\n00:03:07,242 --> 00:03:33,114\n然後是用不一樣的監理規範那當然就有考慮到公平性了所以我們會很快的就公佈這套制度就可以看得到就是說不會因為你原來原來這個責任會因為接軌而消失這個我想很簡單的道理主委講白一點你當然是你有一個政策目標嘛你要全部讓他接軌還是一個態度還是要分級處理還是要掌握一定的原則我現在本席要問你的是說你現在很明顯就是遇到這個問題嘛\n\n12\n00:03:34,395 --> 00:03:55,437\n那接下來你要對商商營的部分呢你到底要當媒人來引介不同的對象或者你要準備當新郎要把他迎娶我要問你是說你最後怎麼辦啊如果沒有辦法在一體適用的情況底下你總要有一個基本的態度出來嘛現在沒多久了現在十月了\n\n13\n00:03:56,653 --> 00:04:22,218\n對啊所以說我們現在因為這個就是因為像委員講的複雜程度很高所以我們過去一定要非常周延的討論我想我們到現在還沒討論出來討論出來了討論出來態度如何就直接講嘛我剛剛跟各位講過假設我們有一個叫做這個信賴保護原則就是說你現在是一個RBC及格的公司比如說按照我們基準點就是6月30號及格的公司不會因為我換一個制度突然你就\n\n14\n00:04:23,078 --> 00:04:40,145\n你就突然就必須要所以我們給一個過度就是剛剛委員提到的寬容但這個過程當中如果說因為你因為一直沒有完成舊制度的這部分這部分你還是要持續來完成但是這個額外外加的負擔不會因此而減少\n\n15\n00:04:41,345 --> 00:04:55,774\n主委你現在還是迴避這個個案的處理你看最近的整個這個態度是趨嚴或是分歧也不清楚像這保化中心最近釋放出來說研究於這個ICS2.0的過渡措施呢可借金額是15年\n\n16\n00:04:56,494 --> 00:05:15,796\n或超借五年一些業界就開始想說為什麼又變來變去這是第一啦第二部分呢過去我們對整個這個IFO-17的這個部分的接軌基本上IFO-17主要是要透明化可是你最近呢你的報告也提到要重新去評估這一個整個海外投資的狀況\n\n17\n00:05:16,857 --> 00:05:31,609\n海外投資的這個匯殺損的部分過去就是因為過度寬容開放了海外投資45%的一個上限之後以至於現在要承擔這麼多的曝血嘛這是第一嘛第二個部分呢你現在匯損的部分呢你說要蓋牌\n\n18\n00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:52,063\n那這不是跟iPhoneSEVENTEEN的這個透明化又相衝我嗎這個跟委員講絕對不是蓋牌我想這是一個非常非常專業也很難去一次說清楚我嘗試跟委員報告委員剛剛講的叫做蓋牌是客氣的沒有剛剛那個超額跟那個超借跟一般的概念那個變來變去其實並沒有變來變去\n\n19\n00:05:54,764 --> 00:06:19,523\n財務不要讓他收到匯率的風險不揭露然後呢讓業者在整個這一個匯率對他有利的時候他又說他大舉了獲利也就是說呢他獲利的時候他強調透明化他虧損的時候他蓋牌化不是其實委員其實不是吧你不應該如此吧絕對不是這樣不是這樣子可是你看起來是這樣子啊政策揭露看起來是這樣子啊那你要好好說明一下你要蓋牌就全部蓋牌你要透明就全部透明\n\n20\n00:06:20,043 --> 00:06:23,545\n然後選擇性的蓋牌跟選擇性的透明絕對不是這樣我想委員您誤會了因為今天我想可能時間不夠我盡量講就是我們應該這樣講說其實會計最重要是要公允表達一個行業那只是說我們的現在壽險業這樣經營的型態現行的表達反而產生更大的誤解的時候我們應該尋求更允當表達它的方式而不是蓋牌就像剛才講說\n\n21\n00:06:46,718 --> 00:07:01,500\n今天來講假設這樣做的話你好的你也沒有壞的你也不需要這就是一個公平的概念你要處理好當然你要處理好這是我們絕對要做的你現在做了這麼多監理寬容你無非他也要做出一些一定的回饋你就訂一個大回饋計畫嘛\n\n22\n00:07:02,841 --> 00:07:20,795\n其實我們叫監理寬容其實是不太適當這跟以前我們在合併的監理寬容是不一樣因為我們現在是用更嚴格的規定如果瞬間下去的話當他擬定大回饋計畫的時候你要很清楚他大回饋的計畫內容而不是只有對象\n\n23\n00:07:22,537 --> 00:07:36,577\n對這是另外一個他要去做的事情不是只有社會不是只有員工不是一個只有含糊的對象你要擬出一個具體的指標譬如講具體的指標當中你報告一個你就是說他資金還會資金回流的KPI\n\n24\n00:07:37,498 --> 00:07:56,593\n投入工件的比例有多少跟委員報告一下然後投入創新創投的比例有多少這是第一嘛第二個它可以設計出來一個比較符合普惠的人壽的保險而不是只有儲蓄型跟投資型然後不斷的吸金然後又造成新的一個部型的模式出現謝謝委員其實委員你剛才講的方向就是我們現在正要做的就是說\n\n25\n00:07:57,333 --> 00:08:25,680\n我們推出一個嚴格的資本世俗規範當然我們很多公司沒辦法瞬間到位我們給他15年的時間讓你好好做到那一點但這個過程當中將來講說你怎麼樣去調整你的那個資產負債結構剛剛委員講到提到怎麼樣做更多更穩健的經營然後來搭配你的資本監理制度這是我們未來整套馬上會公布的你要給他設定一個基本的一個可能計畫的一個原則跟參考依據嗎這個是應該要做的不是讓他自由的去擬定嗎\n\n26\n00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:46,497\n這樣很符合你的政策目標嗎沒錯委員剛剛講的完全就是我們受險業長期在比如說資產負債的比如說幣別的不匹配這一部分我們需要花時間來做一個改變這也是我們會在未來這套新的資本制度我們做一個配套來處理這件事情我期待你看出一個更具體的了不要忽鬆忽緊忽寬忽窄\n\n27\n00:08:50,760 --> 00:09:19,482\n我想另外一個部分你知道我們現在股票的蓬勃發展但是弊案好像隨之而來之前如果我們在討論這個的部分當初我們的整個股票市場的這個市值從原來的十大現在變成全球八大原來的九十兆聽說可能會破百兆相對而言最近的整個內線交易炒股案就不斷發生\n\n28\n00:09:20,663 --> 00:09:44,478\n到底這些內線交易跟炒股案是一個法律制度規範的不足或者是判決的這個依據這個定罪率太低還是防逃的機制不夠否則的話這樣的風氣再下去的話站在一個主委你希望這個資本市場的穩定投資人的權益的保障這都是你應該要面對的問題不是嗎是\n\n29\n00:09:47,233 --> 00:10:08,226\n那主委面對這個問題你有沒有什麼想法跟做法其實我從上任開始我想在很多的地方我就發現到這是一個需要被好好來處理第一個我們很多的基金經理人我相信大部分的基金經理人都是非常專業正職的經理人是一個部分喔對然後你看那朱國榮國寶集團總裁落跑啦鮑魚大亨中文字落跑啦\n\n30\n00:10:08,926 --> 00:10:23,917\n重刀最典型的這個部分這個潛逃當然不是你的範圍嘛這個司法體系司法輸送的時間太長也是造成他潛逃一個因素你看還有成德生技迅達電大立光成創科技所有的東西\n\n31\n00:10:24,838 --> 00:10:52,080\n都看不出來有什麼樣實質的嚇阻作用對這是一個司法的問題我想剛才委員司法問題也有可能是立法的問題制度的規範的問題就投影片後面那個跟單的部分我們是確實要好好來解決怎麼樣尊重這個專業然後怎麼樣透過我們現在是希望透過比較科技的方式透過這些交易流來發現這些事情我想已經在做司法機關真的是末端主管機關還是在於你對不對\n\n32\n00:10:53,061 --> 00:11:07,743\n这些一连串的状况当中我建议你你要我给你一个月的时间你拟一下问如何去解决这些问题跟乱象随着整个资本市场不断的壮大的情况弊案随之增加也不是好事了好不好\n\n33\n00:11:08,904 --> 00:11:26,182\n一個月可以吧可以可以我們把這個相關的一些問題點把它釐清清楚制度怎麼解決政府的態度是如何要對投資大眾講清楚好不好那當然謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝國務委員那再請彭主委一個月內提報告接下來我們請賴會員委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n492\t2748\t我們請彭主委我們請彭主委\n6823\t31910\t主委好 明年就要接軌F17有關於新的債務清場的能力也要一同面對最近常常聽到我們金港會對於整個監理寬容的相關的政策的訊息的釋放聽起來是有寬有鬆有寬有窄 有緊有鬆標準我是不曉得在哪裡\n33670\t48719\t寬容的尺度之間要如何拿捏因為畢竟對象上每一個財務能力健全度不一嘛你如果包山包海你可能就會變成過度寬容對不對你如果區域嚴格的話那恐怕你要面對的問題就會更多\n50760\t66822\t那要如何再透過這種方式來分級管理又不違反原則的情況底下我覺得現階段最重要關鍵我看起來如果就極端值來看的話現在普遍看到就是331這個美邦的這個資本失足率長期來累積起來已經有連續7期\n68224\t84321\t你如果連這個都可以接軌的話那顯然就會過度寬容你如果不接軌的話那你要如何面對這個要去清楚我覺得最基本一個原則我記得我之前問過黃天牧主委也就是說如果要接軌之前第一個RBC的部分要提高到200\n85922\t106354\t第二個呢 要先自住金管會才會提供人住這個態度有沒有轉變其實沒有轉變沒有轉變那沒有轉變的情況底下呢商商美邦連續七期RBC已經落入資本不足那最近這個金管會裡面說要求他們簽署一個增資承諾書\n108269\t126358\t問題是連續三年半都提不出來啦你現在就有辦法嗎這是第一個問題他有沒有能力你要做一個判準你要做一個判準你要給他們多少門檻還有期限才能達到所謂的這個原則不會變嘛主委我跟委員稍微報告一下\n127538\t144827\t其實受險業的資本氏族率跟他比如說我們先談這個案子啦你不要再談其他的教科書的原則啦這一定要先講跟委員報告一下大家會以為就是說你資本氏族率不到200你就必須出場不是\n145547\t158992\t資本失足率就是假設我最簡單的概念資本減掉負債你還要有一定的buffer你buffer低於我警戒值我叫你改善並不是這家公司不能經營我想這是一個前提我現在不是在談原理原則我談說這個狀況你要怎麼處理不會影響到你監理寬容的尺度的拿捏那當然這是\n166375\t186582\t這也是我們就是說怎麼做到公平接軌這是過去我們在這一年來我們每個禮拜密集開會在討論的重點所以剛剛講委員剛剛講說RBC跟這個接軌過程當中會不會因為就像比如這張投影片講說財務不合格也能適用監理寬容這應該要回答兩個問題就是是不是用一樣的監理寬容\n187242\t213114\t然後是用不一樣的監理規範那當然就有考慮到公平性了所以我們會很快的就公佈這套制度就可以看得到就是說不會因為你原來原來這個責任會因為接軌而消失這個我想很簡單的道理主委 講白一點你當然是你有一個政策目標嘛你要全部讓他接軌還是一個態度還是要分級處理還是要掌握一定的原則我現在本席要問你的是說你現在很明顯就是遇到這個問題嘛\n214395\t235437\t那接下來你要對商商營的部分呢你到底要當媒人來引介不同的對象或者你要準備當新郎要把他迎娶我要問你是說你最後怎麼辦啊如果沒有辦法在一體適用的情況底下你總要有一個基本的態度出來嘛現在沒多久了 現在十月了\n236653\t262218\t對啊 所以說我們現在因為這個就是因為像委員講的複雜程度很高所以我們過去一定要非常周延的討論我想我們到現在還沒討論出來討論出來了討論出來態度如何就直接講嘛我剛剛跟各位講過假設我們有一個叫做這個信賴保護原則就是說你現在是一個RBC及格的公司比如說按照我們基準點就是6月30號及格的公司不會因為我換一個制度突然你就\n263078\t280145\t你就突然就必須要所以我們給一個過度就是剛剛委員提到的寬容但這個過程當中如果說因為你因為一直沒有完成舊制度的這部分這部分你還是要持續來完成但是這個額外外加的負擔不會因此而減少\n281345\t295774\t主委你現在還是迴避這個個案的處理你看最近的整個這個態度是趨嚴或是分歧也不清楚像這保化中心最近釋放出來說研究於這個ICS2.0的過渡措施呢可借金額是15年\n296494\t315796\t或超借五年一些業界就開始想說為什麼又變來變去這是第一啦第二部分呢過去我們對整個這個IFO-17的這個部分的接軌基本上IFO-17主要是要透明化可是你最近呢你的報告也提到要重新去評估這一個整個海外投資的狀況\n316857\t331609\t海外投資的這個匯殺損的部分過去就是因為過度寬容開放了海外投資45%的一個上限之後以至於現在要承擔這麼多的曝血嘛這是第一嘛第二個部分呢你現在匯損的部分呢你說要蓋牌\n333450\t352063\t那這不是跟iPhone SEVENTEEN的這個透明化又相衝我嗎這個跟委員講絕對不是蓋牌我想這是一個非常非常專業也很難去一次說清楚我嘗試跟委員報告委員剛剛講的叫做蓋牌是客氣的沒有 剛剛那個超額跟那個超借跟一般的概念那個變來變去其實並沒有變來變去\n354764\t379523\t財務不要讓他收到匯率的風險不揭露然後呢讓業者在整個這一個匯率對他有利的時候他又說他大舉了獲利也就是說呢他獲利的時候他強調透明化他虧損的時候他蓋牌化不是 其實委員其實不是吧你不應該如此吧絕對不是這樣不是這樣子可是你看起來是這樣子啊政策揭露看起來是這樣子啊那你要好好說明一下你要蓋牌就全部蓋牌你要透明就全部透明\n380043\t383545\t然後選擇性的蓋牌跟選擇性的透明絕對不是這樣我想委員您誤會了因為今天我想可能時間不夠我盡量講就是我們應該這樣講說其實會計最重要是要公允表達一個行業那只是說我們的現在壽險業這樣經營的型態現行的表達反而產生更大的誤解的時候我們應該尋求更允當表達它的方式而不是蓋牌就像剛才講說\n406718\t421500\t今天來講假設這樣做的話你好的你也沒有壞的你也不需要這就是一個公平的概念你要處理好當然你要處理好這是我們絕對要做的你現在做了這麼多監理寬容你無非他也要做出一些一定的回饋你就訂一個大回饋計畫嘛\n422841\t440795\t其實我們叫監理寬容其實是不太適當這跟以前我們在合併的監理寬容是不一樣因為我們現在是用更嚴格的規定如果瞬間下去的話當他擬定大回饋計畫的時候你要很清楚他大回饋的計畫內容而不是只有對象\n442537\t456577\t對 這是另外一個他要去做的事情不是只有社會 不是只有員工不是一個只有含糊的對象你要擬出一個具體的指標譬如講具體的指標當中你報告一個你就是說他資金還會資金回流的KPI\n457498\t476593\t投入工件的比例有多少跟委員報告一下然後投入創新創投的比例有多少這是第一嘛第二個它可以設計出來一個比較符合普惠的人壽的保險而不是只有儲蓄型跟投資型然後不斷的吸金然後又造成新的一個部型的模式出現謝謝委員其實委員你剛才講的方向就是我們現在正要做的就是說\n477333\t505680\t我們推出一個嚴格的資本世俗規範當然我們很多公司沒辦法瞬間到位我們給他15年的時間讓你好好做到那一點但這個過程當中將來講說你怎麼樣去調整你的那個資產負債結構剛剛委員講到提到怎麼樣做更多更穩健的經營然後來搭配你的資本監理制度這是我們未來整套馬上會公布的你要給他設定一個基本的一個可能計畫的一個原則跟參考依據嗎這個是應該要做的不是讓他自由的去擬定嗎\n506520\t526497\t這樣很符合你的政策目標嗎沒錯 委員剛剛講的完全就是我們受險業長期在比如說資產負債的比如說幣別的不匹配這一部分我們需要花時間來做一個改變這也是我們會在未來這套新的資本制度我們做一個配套來處理這件事情我期待你看出一個更具體的了不要忽鬆 忽緊 忽寬 忽窄\n530760\t559482\t我想另外一個部分你知道我們現在股票的蓬勃發展但是弊案好像隨之而來之前如果我們在討論這個的部分當初我們的整個股票市場的這個市值從原來的十大現在變成全球八大原來的九十兆聽說可能會破百兆相對而言最近的整個內線交易炒股案就不斷發生\n560663\t584478\t到底這些內線交易跟炒股案是一個法律制度規範的不足或者是判決的這個依據這個定罪率太低還是防逃的機制不夠否則的話這樣的風氣再下去的話站在一個主委你希望這個資本市場的穩定投資人的權益的保障這都是你應該要面對的問題不是嗎是\n587233\t608226\t那主委面對這個問題你有沒有什麼想法跟做法其實我從上任開始我想在很多的地方我就發現到這是一個需要被好好來處理第一個我們很多的基金經理人我相信大部分的基金經理人都是非常專業正職的經理人是一個部分喔對然後你看那朱國榮國寶集團總裁落跑啦鮑魚大亨中文字落跑啦\n608926\t623917\t重刀最典型的這個部分這個潛逃當然不是你的範圍嘛這個司法體系司法輸送的時間太長也是造成他潛逃一個因素你看還有成德生技 迅達電大立光 成創科技所有的東西\n624838\t652080\t都看不出來有什麼樣實質的嚇阻作用對 這是一個司法的問題我想剛才委員司法問題也有可能是立法的問題制度的規範的問題就投影片後面那個跟單的部分我們是確實要好好來解決怎麼樣尊重這個專業然後怎麼樣透過我們現在是希望透過比較科技的方式透過這些交易流來發現這些事情我想已經在做司法機關真的是末端主管機關還是在於你對不對\n653061\t667743\t这些一连串的状况当中我建议你 你要我给你一个月的时间你拟一下问如何去解决这些问题跟乱象随着整个资本市场不断的壮大的情况弊案随之增加也不是好事了好不好\n668904\t686182\t一個月可以吧可以可以我們把這個相關的一些問題點把它釐清清楚制度怎麼解決政府的態度是如何要對投資大眾講清楚好不好那當然謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝國務委員那再請彭主委一個月內提報告接下來我們請賴會員委員\n","txt":"我們請彭主委我們請彭主委\n主委好 明年就要接軌F17有關於新的債務清場的能力也要一同面對最近常常聽到我們金港會對於整個監理寬容的相關的政策的訊息的釋放聽起來是有寬有鬆有寬有窄 有緊有鬆標準我是不曉得在哪裡\n寬容的尺度之間要如何拿捏因為畢竟對象上每一個財務能力健全度不一嘛你如果包山包海你可能就會變成過度寬容對不對你如果區域嚴格的話那恐怕你要面對的問題就會更多\n那要如何再透過這種方式來分級管理又不違反原則的情況底下我覺得現階段最重要關鍵我看起來如果就極端值來看的話現在普遍看到就是331這個美邦的這個資本失足率長期來累積起來已經有連續7期\n你如果連這個都可以接軌的話那顯然就會過度寬容你如果不接軌的話那你要如何面對這個要去清楚我覺得最基本一個原則我記得我之前問過黃天牧主委也就是說如果要接軌之前第一個RBC的部分要提高到200\n第二個呢 要先自住金管會才會提供人住這個態度有沒有轉變其實沒有轉變沒有轉變那沒有轉變的情況底下呢商商美邦連續七期RBC已經落入資本不足那最近這個金管會裡面說要求他們簽署一個增資承諾書\n問題是連續三年半都提不出來啦你現在就有辦法嗎這是第一個問題他有沒有能力你要做一個判準你要做一個判準你要給他們多少門檻還有期限才能達到所謂的這個原則不會變嘛主委我跟委員稍微報告一下\n其實受險業的資本氏族率跟他比如說我們先談這個案子啦你不要再談其他的教科書的原則啦這一定要先講跟委員報告一下大家會以為就是說你資本氏族率不到200你就必須出場不是\n資本失足率就是假設我最簡單的概念資本減掉負債你還要有一定的buffer你buffer低於我警戒值我叫你改善並不是這家公司不能經營我想這是一個前提我現在不是在談原理原則我談說這個狀況你要怎麼處理不會影響到你監理寬容的尺度的拿捏那當然這是\n這也是我們就是說怎麼做到公平接軌這是過去我們在這一年來我們每個禮拜密集開會在討論的重點所以剛剛講委員剛剛講說RBC跟這個接軌過程當中會不會因為就像比如這張投影片講說財務不合格也能適用監理寬容這應該要回答兩個問題就是是不是用一樣的監理寬容\n然後是用不一樣的監理規範那當然就有考慮到公平性了所以我們會很快的就公佈這套制度就可以看得到就是說不會因為你原來原來這個責任會因為接軌而消失這個我想很簡單的道理主委 講白一點你當然是你有一個政策目標嘛你要全部讓他接軌還是一個態度還是要分級處理還是要掌握一定的原則我現在本席要問你的是說你現在很明顯就是遇到這個問題嘛\n那接下來你要對商商營的部分呢你到底要當媒人來引介不同的對象或者你要準備當新郎要把他迎娶我要問你是說你最後怎麼辦啊如果沒有辦法在一體適用的情況底下你總要有一個基本的態度出來嘛現在沒多久了 現在十月了\n對啊 所以說我們現在因為這個就是因為像委員講的複雜程度很高所以我們過去一定要非常周延的討論我想我們到現在還沒討論出來討論出來了討論出來態度如何就直接講嘛我剛剛跟各位講過假設我們有一個叫做這個信賴保護原則就是說你現在是一個RBC及格的公司比如說按照我們基準點就是6月30號及格的公司不會因為我換一個制度突然你就\n你就突然就必須要所以我們給一個過度就是剛剛委員提到的寬容但這個過程當中如果說因為你因為一直沒有完成舊制度的這部分這部分你還是要持續來完成但是這個額外外加的負擔不會因此而減少\n主委你現在還是迴避這個個案的處理你看最近的整個這個態度是趨嚴或是分歧也不清楚像這保化中心最近釋放出來說研究於這個ICS2.0的過渡措施呢可借金額是15年\n或超借五年一些業界就開始想說為什麼又變來變去這是第一啦第二部分呢過去我們對整個這個IFO-17的這個部分的接軌基本上IFO-17主要是要透明化可是你最近呢你的報告也提到要重新去評估這一個整個海外投資的狀況\n海外投資的這個匯殺損的部分過去就是因為過度寬容開放了海外投資45%的一個上限之後以至於現在要承擔這麼多的曝血嘛這是第一嘛第二個部分呢你現在匯損的部分呢你說要蓋牌\n那這不是跟iPhone SEVENTEEN的這個透明化又相衝我嗎這個跟委員講絕對不是蓋牌我想這是一個非常非常專業也很難去一次說清楚我嘗試跟委員報告委員剛剛講的叫做蓋牌是客氣的沒有 剛剛那個超額跟那個超借跟一般的概念那個變來變去其實並沒有變來變去\n財務不要讓他收到匯率的風險不揭露然後呢讓業者在整個這一個匯率對他有利的時候他又說他大舉了獲利也就是說呢他獲利的時候他強調透明化他虧損的時候他蓋牌化不是 其實委員其實不是吧你不應該如此吧絕對不是這樣不是這樣子可是你看起來是這樣子啊政策揭露看起來是這樣子啊那你要好好說明一下你要蓋牌就全部蓋牌你要透明就全部透明\n然後選擇性的蓋牌跟選擇性的透明絕對不是這樣我想委員您誤會了因為今天我想可能時間不夠我盡量講就是我們應該這樣講說其實會計最重要是要公允表達一個行業那只是說我們的現在壽險業這樣經營的型態現行的表達反而產生更大的誤解的時候我們應該尋求更允當表達它的方式而不是蓋牌就像剛才講說\n今天來講假設這樣做的話你好的你也沒有壞的你也不需要這就是一個公平的概念你要處理好當然你要處理好這是我們絕對要做的你現在做了這麼多監理寬容你無非他也要做出一些一定的回饋你就訂一個大回饋計畫嘛\n其實我們叫監理寬容其實是不太適當這跟以前我們在合併的監理寬容是不一樣因為我們現在是用更嚴格的規定如果瞬間下去的話當他擬定大回饋計畫的時候你要很清楚他大回饋的計畫內容而不是只有對象\n對 這是另外一個他要去做的事情不是只有社會 不是只有員工不是一個只有含糊的對象你要擬出一個具體的指標譬如講具體的指標當中你報告一個你就是說他資金還會資金回流的KPI\n投入工件的比例有多少跟委員報告一下然後投入創新創投的比例有多少這是第一嘛第二個它可以設計出來一個比較符合普惠的人壽的保險而不是只有儲蓄型跟投資型然後不斷的吸金然後又造成新的一個部型的模式出現謝謝委員其實委員你剛才講的方向就是我們現在正要做的就是說\n我們推出一個嚴格的資本世俗規範當然我們很多公司沒辦法瞬間到位我們給他15年的時間讓你好好做到那一點但這個過程當中將來講說你怎麼樣去調整你的那個資產負債結構剛剛委員講到提到怎麼樣做更多更穩健的經營然後來搭配你的資本監理制度這是我們未來整套馬上會公布的你要給他設定一個基本的一個可能計畫的一個原則跟參考依據嗎這個是應該要做的不是讓他自由的去擬定嗎\n這樣很符合你的政策目標嗎沒錯 委員剛剛講的完全就是我們受險業長期在比如說資產負債的比如說幣別的不匹配這一部分我們需要花時間來做一個改變這也是我們會在未來這套新的資本制度我們做一個配套來處理這件事情我期待你看出一個更具體的了不要忽鬆 忽緊 忽寬 忽窄\n我想另外一個部分你知道我們現在股票的蓬勃發展但是弊案好像隨之而來之前如果我們在討論這個的部分當初我們的整個股票市場的這個市值從原來的十大現在變成全球八大原來的九十兆聽說可能會破百兆相對而言最近的整個內線交易炒股案就不斷發生\n到底這些內線交易跟炒股案是一個法律制度規範的不足或者是判決的這個依據這個定罪率太低還是防逃的機制不夠否則的話這樣的風氣再下去的話站在一個主委你希望這個資本市場的穩定投資人的權益的保障這都是你應該要面對的問題不是嗎是\n那主委面對這個問題你有沒有什麼想法跟做法其實我從上任開始我想在很多的地方我就發現到這是一個需要被好好來處理第一個我們很多的基金經理人我相信大部分的基金經理人都是非常專業正職的經理人是一個部分喔對然後你看那朱國榮國寶集團總裁落跑啦鮑魚大亨中文字落跑啦\n重刀最典型的這個部分這個潛逃當然不是你的範圍嘛這個司法體系司法輸送的時間太長也是造成他潛逃一個因素你看還有成德生技 迅達電大立光 成創科技所有的東西\n都看不出來有什麼樣實質的嚇阻作用對 這是一個司法的問題我想剛才委員司法問題也有可能是立法的問題制度的規範的問題就投影片後面那個跟單的部分我們是確實要好好來解決怎麼樣尊重這個專業然後怎麼樣透過我們現在是希望透過比較科技的方式透過這些交易流來發現這些事情我想已經在做司法機關真的是末端主管機關還是在於你對不對\n这些一连串的状况当中我建议你 你要我给你一个月的时间你拟一下问如何去解决这些问题跟乱象随着整个资本市场不断的壮大的情况弊案随之增加也不是好事了好不好\n一個月可以吧可以可以我們把這個相關的一些問題點把它釐清清楚制度怎麼解決政府的態度是如何要對投資大眾講清楚好不好那當然謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝國務委員那再請彭主委一個月內提報告接下來我們請賴會員委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.492 --> 00:02.748\n我們請彭主委我們請彭主委\n\n00:06.823 --> 00:31.910\n主委好明年就要接軌F17有關於新的債務清場的能力也要一同面對最近常常聽到我們金港會對於整個監理寬容的相關的政策的訊息的釋放聽起來是有寬有鬆有寬有窄有緊有鬆標準我是不曉得在哪裡\n\n00:33.670 --> 00:48.719\n寬容的尺度之間要如何拿捏因為畢竟對象上每一個財務能力健全度不一嘛你如果包山包海你可能就會變成過度寬容對不對你如果區域嚴格的話那恐怕你要面對的問題就會更多\n\n00:50.760 --> 01:06.822\n那要如何再透過這種方式來分級管理又不違反原則的情況底下我覺得現階段最重要關鍵我看起來如果就極端值來看的話現在普遍看到就是331這個美邦的這個資本失足率長期來累積起來已經有連續7期\n\n01:08.224 --> 01:24.321\n你如果連這個都可以接軌的話那顯然就會過度寬容你如果不接軌的話那你要如何面對這個要去清楚我覺得最基本一個原則我記得我之前問過黃天牧主委也就是說如果要接軌之前第一個RBC的部分要提高到200\n\n01:25.922 --> 01:46.354\n第二個呢要先自住金管會才會提供人住這個態度有沒有轉變其實沒有轉變沒有轉變那沒有轉變的情況底下呢商商美邦連續七期RBC已經落入資本不足那最近這個金管會裡面說要求他們簽署一個增資承諾書\n\n01:48.269 --> 02:06.358\n問題是連續三年半都提不出來啦你現在就有辦法嗎這是第一個問題他有沒有能力你要做一個判準你要做一個判準你要給他們多少門檻還有期限才能達到所謂的這個原則不會變嘛主委我跟委員稍微報告一下\n\n02:07.538 --> 02:24.827\n其實受險業的資本氏族率跟他比如說我們先談這個案子啦你不要再談其他的教科書的原則啦這一定要先講跟委員報告一下大家會以為就是說你資本氏族率不到200你就必須出場不是\n\n02:25.547 --> 02:38.992\n資本失足率就是假設我最簡單的概念資本減掉負債你還要有一定的buffer你buffer低於我警戒值我叫你改善並不是這家公司不能經營我想這是一個前提我現在不是在談原理原則我談說這個狀況你要怎麼處理不會影響到你監理寬容的尺度的拿捏那當然這是\n\n02:46.375 --> 03:06.582\n這也是我們就是說怎麼做到公平接軌這是過去我們在這一年來我們每個禮拜密集開會在討論的重點所以剛剛講委員剛剛講說RBC跟這個接軌過程當中會不會因為就像比如這張投影片講說財務不合格也能適用監理寬容這應該要回答兩個問題就是是不是用一樣的監理寬容\n\n03:07.242 --> 03:33.114\n然後是用不一樣的監理規範那當然就有考慮到公平性了所以我們會很快的就公佈這套制度就可以看得到就是說不會因為你原來原來這個責任會因為接軌而消失這個我想很簡單的道理主委講白一點你當然是你有一個政策目標嘛你要全部讓他接軌還是一個態度還是要分級處理還是要掌握一定的原則我現在本席要問你的是說你現在很明顯就是遇到這個問題嘛\n\n03:34.395 --> 03:55.437\n那接下來你要對商商營的部分呢你到底要當媒人來引介不同的對象或者你要準備當新郎要把他迎娶我要問你是說你最後怎麼辦啊如果沒有辦法在一體適用的情況底下你總要有一個基本的態度出來嘛現在沒多久了現在十月了\n\n03:56.653 --> 04:22.218\n對啊所以說我們現在因為這個就是因為像委員講的複雜程度很高所以我們過去一定要非常周延的討論我想我們到現在還沒討論出來討論出來了討論出來態度如何就直接講嘛我剛剛跟各位講過假設我們有一個叫做這個信賴保護原則就是說你現在是一個RBC及格的公司比如說按照我們基準點就是6月30號及格的公司不會因為我換一個制度突然你就\n\n04:23.078 --> 04:40.145\n你就突然就必須要所以我們給一個過度就是剛剛委員提到的寬容但這個過程當中如果說因為你因為一直沒有完成舊制度的這部分這部分你還是要持續來完成但是這個額外外加的負擔不會因此而減少\n\n04:41.345 --> 04:55.774\n主委你現在還是迴避這個個案的處理你看最近的整個這個態度是趨嚴或是分歧也不清楚像這保化中心最近釋放出來說研究於這個ICS2.0的過渡措施呢可借金額是15年\n\n04:56.494 --> 05:15.796\n或超借五年一些業界就開始想說為什麼又變來變去這是第一啦第二部分呢過去我們對整個這個IFO-17的這個部分的接軌基本上IFO-17主要是要透明化可是你最近呢你的報告也提到要重新去評估這一個整個海外投資的狀況\n\n05:16.857 --> 05:31.609\n海外投資的這個匯殺損的部分過去就是因為過度寬容開放了海外投資45%的一個上限之後以至於現在要承擔這麼多的曝血嘛這是第一嘛第二個部分呢你現在匯損的部分呢你說要蓋牌\n\n05:33.450 --> 05:52.063\n那這不是跟iPhoneSEVENTEEN的這個透明化又相衝我嗎這個跟委員講絕對不是蓋牌我想這是一個非常非常專業也很難去一次說清楚我嘗試跟委員報告委員剛剛講的叫做蓋牌是客氣的沒有剛剛那個超額跟那個超借跟一般的概念那個變來變去其實並沒有變來變去\n\n05:54.764 --> 06:19.523\n財務不要讓他收到匯率的風險不揭露然後呢讓業者在整個這一個匯率對他有利的時候他又說他大舉了獲利也就是說呢他獲利的時候他強調透明化他虧損的時候他蓋牌化不是其實委員其實不是吧你不應該如此吧絕對不是這樣不是這樣子可是你看起來是這樣子啊政策揭露看起來是這樣子啊那你要好好說明一下你要蓋牌就全部蓋牌你要透明就全部透明\n\n06:20.043 --> 06:23.545\n然後選擇性的蓋牌跟選擇性的透明絕對不是這樣我想委員您誤會了因為今天我想可能時間不夠我盡量講就是我們應該這樣講說其實會計最重要是要公允表達一個行業那只是說我們的現在壽險業這樣經營的型態現行的表達反而產生更大的誤解的時候我們應該尋求更允當表達它的方式而不是蓋牌就像剛才講說\n\n06:46.718 --> 07:01.500\n今天來講假設這樣做的話你好的你也沒有壞的你也不需要這就是一個公平的概念你要處理好當然你要處理好這是我們絕對要做的你現在做了這麼多監理寬容你無非他也要做出一些一定的回饋你就訂一個大回饋計畫嘛\n\n07:02.841 --> 07:20.795\n其實我們叫監理寬容其實是不太適當這跟以前我們在合併的監理寬容是不一樣因為我們現在是用更嚴格的規定如果瞬間下去的話當他擬定大回饋計畫的時候你要很清楚他大回饋的計畫內容而不是只有對象\n\n07:22.537 --> 07:36.577\n對這是另外一個他要去做的事情不是只有社會不是只有員工不是一個只有含糊的對象你要擬出一個具體的指標譬如講具體的指標當中你報告一個你就是說他資金還會資金回流的KPI\n\n07:37.498 --> 07:56.593\n投入工件的比例有多少跟委員報告一下然後投入創新創投的比例有多少這是第一嘛第二個它可以設計出來一個比較符合普惠的人壽的保險而不是只有儲蓄型跟投資型然後不斷的吸金然後又造成新的一個部型的模式出現謝謝委員其實委員你剛才講的方向就是我們現在正要做的就是說\n\n07:57.333 --> 08:25.680\n我們推出一個嚴格的資本世俗規範當然我們很多公司沒辦法瞬間到位我們給他15年的時間讓你好好做到那一點但這個過程當中將來講說你怎麼樣去調整你的那個資產負債結構剛剛委員講到提到怎麼樣做更多更穩健的經營然後來搭配你的資本監理制度這是我們未來整套馬上會公布的你要給他設定一個基本的一個可能計畫的一個原則跟參考依據嗎這個是應該要做的不是讓他自由的去擬定嗎\n\n08:26.520 --> 08:46.497\n這樣很符合你的政策目標嗎沒錯委員剛剛講的完全就是我們受險業長期在比如說資產負債的比如說幣別的不匹配這一部分我們需要花時間來做一個改變這也是我們會在未來這套新的資本制度我們做一個配套來處理這件事情我期待你看出一個更具體的了不要忽鬆忽緊忽寬忽窄\n\n08:50.760 --> 09:19.482\n我想另外一個部分你知道我們現在股票的蓬勃發展但是弊案好像隨之而來之前如果我們在討論這個的部分當初我們的整個股票市場的這個市值從原來的十大現在變成全球八大原來的九十兆聽說可能會破百兆相對而言最近的整個內線交易炒股案就不斷發生\n\n09:20.663 --> 09:44.478\n到底這些內線交易跟炒股案是一個法律制度規範的不足或者是判決的這個依據這個定罪率太低還是防逃的機制不夠否則的話這樣的風氣再下去的話站在一個主委你希望這個資本市場的穩定投資人的權益的保障這都是你應該要面對的問題不是嗎是\n\n09:47.233 --> 10:08.226\n那主委面對這個問題你有沒有什麼想法跟做法其實我從上任開始我想在很多的地方我就發現到這是一個需要被好好來處理第一個我們很多的基金經理人我相信大部分的基金經理人都是非常專業正職的經理人是一個部分喔對然後你看那朱國榮國寶集團總裁落跑啦鮑魚大亨中文字落跑啦\n\n10:08.926 --> 10:23.917\n重刀最典型的這個部分這個潛逃當然不是你的範圍嘛這個司法體系司法輸送的時間太長也是造成他潛逃一個因素你看還有成德生技迅達電大立光成創科技所有的東西\n\n10:24.838 --> 10:52.080\n都看不出來有什麼樣實質的嚇阻作用對這是一個司法的問題我想剛才委員司法問題也有可能是立法的問題制度的規範的問題就投影片後面那個跟單的部分我們是確實要好好來解決怎麼樣尊重這個專業然後怎麼樣透過我們現在是希望透過比較科技的方式透過這些交易流來發現這些事情我想已經在做司法機關真的是末端主管機關還是在於你對不對\n\n10:53.061 --> 11:07.743\n这些一连串的状况当中我建议你你要我给你一个月的时间你拟一下问如何去解决这些问题跟乱象随着整个资本市场不断的壮大的情况弊案随之增加也不是好事了好不好\n\n11:08.904 --> 11:26.182\n一個月可以吧可以可以我們把這個相關的一些問題點把它釐清清楚制度怎麼解決政府的態度是如何要對投資大眾講清楚好不好那當然謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝國務委員那再請彭主委一個月內提報告接下來我們請賴會員委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.492,"end":2.748,"text":"我們請彭主委我們請彭主委"},{"start":6.823,"end":31.91,"text":"主委好 明年就要接軌F17有關於新的債務清場的能力也要一同面對最近常常聽到我們金港會對於整個監理寬容的相關的政策的訊息的釋放聽起來是有寬有鬆有寬有窄 有緊有鬆標準我是不曉得在哪裡"},{"start":33.67,"end":48.719,"text":"寬容的尺度之間要如何拿捏因為畢竟對象上每一個財務能力健全度不一嘛你如果包山包海你可能就會變成過度寬容對不對你如果區域嚴格的話那恐怕你要面對的問題就會更多"},{"start":50.76,"end":66.822,"text":"那要如何再透過這種方式來分級管理又不違反原則的情況底下我覺得現階段最重要關鍵我看起來如果就極端值來看的話現在普遍看到就是331這個美邦的這個資本失足率長期來累積起來已經有連續7期"},{"start":68.224,"end":84.321,"text":"你如果連這個都可以接軌的話那顯然就會過度寬容你如果不接軌的話那你要如何面對這個要去清楚我覺得最基本一個原則我記得我之前問過黃天牧主委也就是說如果要接軌之前第一個RBC的部分要提高到200"},{"start":85.922,"end":106.354,"text":"第二個呢 要先自住金管會才會提供人住這個態度有沒有轉變其實沒有轉變沒有轉變那沒有轉變的情況底下呢商商美邦連續七期RBC已經落入資本不足那最近這個金管會裡面說要求他們簽署一個增資承諾書"},{"start":108.269,"end":126.358,"text":"問題是連續三年半都提不出來啦你現在就有辦法嗎這是第一個問題他有沒有能力你要做一個判準你要做一個判準你要給他們多少門檻還有期限才能達到所謂的這個原則不會變嘛主委我跟委員稍微報告一下"},{"start":127.538,"end":144.827,"text":"其實受險業的資本氏族率跟他比如說我們先談這個案子啦你不要再談其他的教科書的原則啦這一定要先講跟委員報告一下大家會以為就是說你資本氏族率不到200你就必須出場不是"},{"start":145.547,"end":158.992,"text":"資本失足率就是假設我最簡單的概念資本減掉負債你還要有一定的buffer你buffer低於我警戒值我叫你改善並不是這家公司不能經營我想這是一個前提我現在不是在談原理原則我談說這個狀況你要怎麼處理不會影響到你監理寬容的尺度的拿捏那當然這是"},{"start":166.375,"end":186.582,"text":"這也是我們就是說怎麼做到公平接軌這是過去我們在這一年來我們每個禮拜密集開會在討論的重點所以剛剛講委員剛剛講說RBC跟這個接軌過程當中會不會因為就像比如這張投影片講說財務不合格也能適用監理寬容這應該要回答兩個問題就是是不是用一樣的監理寬容"},{"start":187.242,"end":213.114,"text":"然後是用不一樣的監理規範那當然就有考慮到公平性了所以我們會很快的就公佈這套制度就可以看得到就是說不會因為你原來原來這個責任會因為接軌而消失這個我想很簡單的道理主委 講白一點你當然是你有一個政策目標嘛你要全部讓他接軌還是一個態度還是要分級處理還是要掌握一定的原則我現在本席要問你的是說你現在很明顯就是遇到這個問題嘛"},{"start":214.395,"end":235.437,"text":"那接下來你要對商商營的部分呢你到底要當媒人來引介不同的對象或者你要準備當新郎要把他迎娶我要問你是說你最後怎麼辦啊如果沒有辦法在一體適用的情況底下你總要有一個基本的態度出來嘛現在沒多久了 現在十月了"},{"start":236.653,"end":262.218,"text":"對啊 所以說我們現在因為這個就是因為像委員講的複雜程度很高所以我們過去一定要非常周延的討論我想我們到現在還沒討論出來討論出來了討論出來態度如何就直接講嘛我剛剛跟各位講過假設我們有一個叫做這個信賴保護原則就是說你現在是一個RBC及格的公司比如說按照我們基準點就是6月30號及格的公司不會因為我換一個制度突然你就"},{"start":263.078,"end":280.145,"text":"你就突然就必須要所以我們給一個過度就是剛剛委員提到的寬容但這個過程當中如果說因為你因為一直沒有完成舊制度的這部分這部分你還是要持續來完成但是這個額外外加的負擔不會因此而減少"},{"start":281.345,"end":295.774,"text":"主委你現在還是迴避這個個案的處理你看最近的整個這個態度是趨嚴或是分歧也不清楚像這保化中心最近釋放出來說研究於這個ICS2.0的過渡措施呢可借金額是15年"},{"start":296.494,"end":315.796,"text":"或超借五年一些業界就開始想說為什麼又變來變去這是第一啦第二部分呢過去我們對整個這個IFO-17的這個部分的接軌基本上IFO-17主要是要透明化可是你最近呢你的報告也提到要重新去評估這一個整個海外投資的狀況"},{"start":316.857,"end":331.609,"text":"海外投資的這個匯殺損的部分過去就是因為過度寬容開放了海外投資45%的一個上限之後以至於現在要承擔這麼多的曝血嘛這是第一嘛第二個部分呢你現在匯損的部分呢你說要蓋牌"},{"start":333.45,"end":352.063,"text":"那這不是跟iPhone SEVENTEEN的這個透明化又相衝我嗎這個跟委員講絕對不是蓋牌我想這是一個非常非常專業也很難去一次說清楚我嘗試跟委員報告委員剛剛講的叫做蓋牌是客氣的沒有 剛剛那個超額跟那個超借跟一般的概念那個變來變去其實並沒有變來變去"},{"start":354.764,"end":379.523,"text":"財務不要讓他收到匯率的風險不揭露然後呢讓業者在整個這一個匯率對他有利的時候他又說他大舉了獲利也就是說呢他獲利的時候他強調透明化他虧損的時候他蓋牌化不是 其實委員其實不是吧你不應該如此吧絕對不是這樣不是這樣子可是你看起來是這樣子啊政策揭露看起來是這樣子啊那你要好好說明一下你要蓋牌就全部蓋牌你要透明就全部透明"},{"start":380.043,"end":383.545,"text":"然後選擇性的蓋牌跟選擇性的透明絕對不是這樣我想委員您誤會了因為今天我想可能時間不夠我盡量講就是我們應該這樣講說其實會計最重要是要公允表達一個行業那只是說我們的現在壽險業這樣經營的型態現行的表達反而產生更大的誤解的時候我們應該尋求更允當表達它的方式而不是蓋牌就像剛才講說"},{"start":406.718,"end":421.5,"text":"今天來講假設這樣做的話你好的你也沒有壞的你也不需要這就是一個公平的概念你要處理好當然你要處理好這是我們絕對要做的你現在做了這麼多監理寬容你無非他也要做出一些一定的回饋你就訂一個大回饋計畫嘛"},{"start":422.841,"end":440.795,"text":"其實我們叫監理寬容其實是不太適當這跟以前我們在合併的監理寬容是不一樣因為我們現在是用更嚴格的規定如果瞬間下去的話當他擬定大回饋計畫的時候你要很清楚他大回饋的計畫內容而不是只有對象"},{"start":442.537,"end":456.577,"text":"對 這是另外一個他要去做的事情不是只有社會 不是只有員工不是一個只有含糊的對象你要擬出一個具體的指標譬如講具體的指標當中你報告一個你就是說他資金還會資金回流的KPI"},{"start":457.498,"end":476.593,"text":"投入工件的比例有多少跟委員報告一下然後投入創新創投的比例有多少這是第一嘛第二個它可以設計出來一個比較符合普惠的人壽的保險而不是只有儲蓄型跟投資型然後不斷的吸金然後又造成新的一個部型的模式出現謝謝委員其實委員你剛才講的方向就是我們現在正要做的就是說"},{"start":477.333,"end":505.68,"text":"我們推出一個嚴格的資本世俗規範當然我們很多公司沒辦法瞬間到位我們給他15年的時間讓你好好做到那一點但這個過程當中將來講說你怎麼樣去調整你的那個資產負債結構剛剛委員講到提到怎麼樣做更多更穩健的經營然後來搭配你的資本監理制度這是我們未來整套馬上會公布的你要給他設定一個基本的一個可能計畫的一個原則跟參考依據嗎這個是應該要做的不是讓他自由的去擬定嗎"},{"start":506.52,"end":526.497,"text":"這樣很符合你的政策目標嗎沒錯 委員剛剛講的完全就是我們受險業長期在比如說資產負債的比如說幣別的不匹配這一部分我們需要花時間來做一個改變這也是我們會在未來這套新的資本制度我們做一個配套來處理這件事情我期待你看出一個更具體的了不要忽鬆 忽緊 忽寬 忽窄"},{"start":530.76,"end":559.482,"text":"我想另外一個部分你知道我們現在股票的蓬勃發展但是弊案好像隨之而來之前如果我們在討論這個的部分當初我們的整個股票市場的這個市值從原來的十大現在變成全球八大原來的九十兆聽說可能會破百兆相對而言最近的整個內線交易炒股案就不斷發生"},{"start":560.663,"end":584.478,"text":"到底這些內線交易跟炒股案是一個法律制度規範的不足或者是判決的這個依據這個定罪率太低還是防逃的機制不夠否則的話這樣的風氣再下去的話站在一個主委你希望這個資本市場的穩定投資人的權益的保障這都是你應該要面對的問題不是嗎是"},{"start":587.233,"end":608.226,"text":"那主委面對這個問題你有沒有什麼想法跟做法其實我從上任開始我想在很多的地方我就發現到這是一個需要被好好來處理第一個我們很多的基金經理人我相信大部分的基金經理人都是非常專業正職的經理人是一個部分喔對然後你看那朱國榮國寶集團總裁落跑啦鮑魚大亨中文字落跑啦"},{"start":608.926,"end":623.917,"text":"重刀最典型的這個部分這個潛逃當然不是你的範圍嘛這個司法體系司法輸送的時間太長也是造成他潛逃一個因素你看還有成德生技 迅達電大立光 成創科技所有的東西"},{"start":624.838,"end":652.08,"text":"都看不出來有什麼樣實質的嚇阻作用對 這是一個司法的問題我想剛才委員司法問題也有可能是立法的問題制度的規範的問題就投影片後面那個跟單的部分我們是確實要好好來解決怎麼樣尊重這個專業然後怎麼樣透過我們現在是希望透過比較科技的方式透過這些交易流來發現這些事情我想已經在做司法機關真的是末端主管機關還是在於你對不對"},{"start":653.061,"end":667.743,"text":"这些一连串的状况当中我建议你 你要我给你一个月的时间你拟一下问如何去解决这些问题跟乱象随着整个资本市场不断的壮大的情况弊案随之增加也不是好事了好不好"},{"start":668.904,"end":686.182,"text":"一個月可以吧可以可以我們把這個相關的一些問題點把它釐清清楚制度怎麼解決政府的態度是如何要對投資大眾講清楚好不好那當然謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝國務委員那再請彭主委一個月內提報告接下來我們請賴會員委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":341,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時48分）主席，麻煩請彭主委。"],["主席：我們請彭主委。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：主委好。明年就要接軌IFRS17，有關於這一個新的債務清償的能力，也要一同面對。最近常常聽到我們金管會對於整個監理寬容相關政策的訊息釋放，聽起來是有寬、有窄、有緊、有鬆，但是我是不曉得標準在哪裡，也就是寬容的尺度之間要如何拿捏，畢竟對象上每一個財務能力健全度不一，你如果要包山包海，你可能就會變成過度寬容，對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對。"],["郭委員國文：如果趨於嚴格的話，恐怕你要面對的問題就會更多，那麼要如何再透過這種方式來分級管理，又不違反原則的情況底下，現階段最重要的關鍵，我看起來，就極端值來看的話，現在普遍看到就是三商美邦的資本適足率，長期累積起來已經有連續七期。你如果連這個都可以接軌的話，顯然就會過度寬容，你如果不接軌的話，那麼你要如何面對？這個要清楚，我覺得最基本的一個原則，我記得之前問過黃天牧主委，也就是如果要接軌之前，第一個，RBC的部分要提高到200%。第二個，業者要先「自助」，金管會才會提供「人助」，這個態度有沒有轉變？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實沒有轉變。"],["郭委員國文：沒有轉變？在沒有轉變的情況底下，三商美邦也已經連續七期RBC落入資本不足嘛！最近金管會說要要求他們簽署一個增資承諾書，問題是連續三年半都提不出來了，你現在就有辦法嗎？這是第一個問題，它有沒有能力，你要做一個判準，你要給他們多少門檻還有期限，才能達到所謂的這個原則不會變，主委？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，我跟委員稍微報告一下，其實壽險業的資本適足率跟它比如……"],["郭委員國文：有我們先談這個案子，你不要再談其他的教科書原則，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，這一定要先講。跟委員報告一下，大家會以為資本適足率不到200%，你就必須出場，不是！資本適足率假設用最簡單的概念來說，資本減掉負債，你還要有一定的buffer，buffer低於警戒值，我會叫你改善，並不是這家公司不能經營，我想這是一個前提……"],["郭委員國文：對，我現在不是在談這個原理原則，我談這個狀況，你要怎麼處理？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，所以我們會……"],["郭委員國文：這會影響到你監理寬容的尺度拿捏。"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然，這也是我們怎麼做到公平接軌，這是過去在這一年來，我們每個禮拜密集開會在討論的重點。所以委員剛剛講RBC跟這個接軌過程當中會不會……因為比如這張投影片講的「財務不合格者，也能適用監理寬容？」這應該要回答兩個問題，就是是不是用一樣的監理寬容，如果用不一樣的監理寬容，當然就有考慮到公平性了，所以我們會很快地公布這套制度，就可以看得到原來的責任不會因為接軌而消失，我想這是很簡單的道理。"],["郭委員國文：主委，講白一點，當然你是有一個政策目標，你要全部讓它接軌，是一個態度，還是要分級處理，還是要掌握一定的原則？現在本席要問你，你現在很明顯遇到這個問題，接下來對於三商銀的部分，你到底要當媒人來引介不同的對象，或者你要準備當新郎，要把它迎娶。我要問你的是，你最後怎麼辦？如果沒有辦法在一體適用的情況底下，你總要有一個基本的態度出來，剩下沒多久了，現在10月了耶！"],["彭主任委員金隆：對啊，這個就是因為像委員講的，複雜程度很高，所以我們過去一定要非常周延的討論。我想我們……"],["郭委員國文：到現在還沒討論出來？"],["彭主任委員金隆：討論出來了。"],["郭委員國文：討論出來了，那麼態度如何？就直接講嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：我剛剛跟各位講過，我們有一個叫做信賴保護原則，你現在是一個RBC及格的公司，比如按照我們基準點，就是6月30日及格的公司，不會因為我換一個制度，你就突然就必須要……","所以我們給一個過渡，就是剛剛委員提到的寬容，但這個過程當中，如果因為你一直沒有完成舊制度的這部分，這部分你還是要持續來完成，但是這個額外外加的負擔不會因此而減少。"],["郭委員國文：主委，你現在還是迴避這個個案的處理。你看你最近的整個態度是趨嚴或是分級也不清楚，像保發中心最近釋放出來的，研究ICS 2.0的過渡措施，可借金額是15年，或超借是5年，因此一些業界就開始想為什麼又變來變去，這是第一。第二個部分，過去我們對於整個IFRS17的接軌，基本上IFRS17主要是要透明化。可是最近你的報告也提到要重新去評估整個海外投資的狀況，海外投資的匯差損的部分，過去就是因為過度寬容，開放海外投資45%的上限之後，以至於現在要承擔這麼多的暴險。再者，現在匯損的部分，你說要蓋牌，這不是跟IFRS17的透明化又相衝突嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個跟委員講，絕對不是蓋牌，我想這是一個非常非常專業，也很難一次說清楚，我嘗試跟委員報告。委員剛才講，比如……"],["郭委員國文：蓋牌是客氣的。"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒有，剛剛談到超額跟超借跟一般的概念變來變去，其實並沒有變來變去……"],["郭委員國文：你把財務……不要讓它受到匯率風險不揭露，然後讓業者在整個匯率對他們有利的時候，他又大舉的獲利，也就是他獲利的時候，他強調透明化；他虧損的時候，他蓋牌化。不會吧！你不應該如此吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員，不是這樣，絕對不是這樣。"],["郭委員國文：不是這樣子？可是你看起來是這樣子，你政策揭露看起來是這樣子啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：不是，現在……"],["郭委員國文：你要好好說明一下，你要蓋牌就全部蓋牌，你要透明就全部透明。"],["彭主任委員金隆：剛剛委員講的……"],["郭委員國文：哪有選擇性的蓋牌，跟選擇性的透明？"],["彭主任委員金隆：絕對不是這樣，我想委員您誤會了，今天我想可能時間也不夠，我儘量講。我們應該這樣講，其實會計最重要是要公允表達一個行業，只是我們現在壽險業這樣的經營型態，現行的表達反而產生更大的誤解時，我們應該尋求更允當表達的方式，而不是蓋牌，就像剛才講的，以今天來講，假設這樣做的話，好的沒有，壞的你也不需要，這就是一個公平的概念……"],["郭委員國文：你要處理好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然，這是我們絕對要做的。"],["郭委員國文：你現在做了這麼多監理寬容，無非希望他也要做出一定的回饋，那你就訂一個大回饋計畫嘛！對不對？"],["彭主任委員金隆：叫監理寬容其實是不太適當，這跟以前我們在合併時的監理寬容不一樣……"],["郭委員國文：好，叫「在地化」也可以啦！不管你用什麼名詞，它不是我在意的重點……"],["彭主任委員金隆：因為我們現在是用更嚴格的規定，如果瞬間下去的話……"],["郭委員國文：現在本席要就教於你的是，當他擬定大回饋計畫的時候，你要很清楚他大回饋計畫的內容，而不是只有對象……"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這是另外一個他要去做的事情。"],["郭委員國文：對，不是只有股東、不是只有社會、不是只有員工，不是只有一個含糊的對象，你要擬出一個具體指標，譬如具體指標當中，你就報告一個，業者資金回流國內的KPI，投入公建的比例有多少……"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告……"],["郭委員國文：然後投入創新、創投的比例有多少，這是第一個。第二個，他可以設計出來一個比較符合普惠的人壽保險，而不是只有儲蓄型跟投資型，不斷的吸金，然後又造成一個新的暴險模式出現。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員，其實委員剛才講的方向就是我們現在正要做的，我們推出一個嚴格的資本適足規範，當然很多公司沒辦法瞬間到位，我們給他15年的時間，讓他好好做到那一點，但在這個過程當中，要怎麼調整他們的資產負債結構，就像剛剛委員提到的，怎麼樣做更多、更穩健的經營，然後搭配我們的資本監理制度，這是未來我們整套馬上要公布的。"],["郭委員國文：你要定一個基本的計畫原則跟參考依據……"],["彭主任委員金隆：這是應該要做的。"],["郭委員國文：而不是讓他自由去擬訂，這樣才符合你的政策目標，減少海外投資的風險嘛！"],["彭主任委員金隆：沒錯，委員剛才講的完全就是……其實我們的壽險業長期在資產負債部分、幣別不匹配部分，是我們需要花時間來做的改變，這也是未來我們在這套新的資本制度上，會做一個配套來處理監理機制。"],["郭委員國文：我期待你定出一個更具體的指標，不要忽鬆忽緊……"],["彭主任委員金隆：絕對不會，我想……"],["郭委員國文：忽寬忽窄。另外，我們現在的股票市場蓬勃發展，但是弊案好像隨之而來，之前我們也討論過這個部分，當初我們整個股票市場的市值從原來的十大，現在變成全球八大；原來的90兆，聽說可能會破百兆，相對而言，最近的整個內線交易、炒股案就不斷發生。到底這些內線交易跟炒股案是因為法律制度規範不足，或者判決的定罪率太低，還是防逃的機制不夠？如果這樣的風氣再下去，站在主委立場上，希望資本市場穩定、保障投資人權益，這些都是你應該面對的問題，不是嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["郭委員國文：面對這些問題，你有沒有什麼想法跟作法？"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我從上任開始，在很多地方就發現到這是一個需要被好好處理的問題，第一，我相信大部分的基金經理人都是非常專業正直的……"],["郭委員國文：經理人是一個部分，但是你看國寶集團總裁朱國榮落跑了，鮑魚大亨鍾文智落跑了，這是重大、典型的部分，當然潛逃不是你的責任範圍……"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個司法體系部分……"],["郭委員國文：但是司法訴訟時間太長，也是造成潛逃的一個因素，你看還有晟德生技、訊達電腦、大立光、誠創科技，所有規定都看不出有什麼實質的嚇阻作用。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，這是一個司法的問題，我想剛才委員……"],["郭委員國文：有些是司法問題，也有可能是立法的問題、制度規範的問題。"],["彭主任委員金隆：就投影片後面那個跟單的部分，我們確實要好好來解決，怎麼樣尊重專業，然後怎麼樣透過……我們現在是希望透過比較科技的方式，透過這些交易流來發現這些問題，我想現在已經在做了。"],["郭委員國文：主委，司法機關是末端，但主管機關還是在於你，對不對？這一連串的狀況，我給你一個月的時間，建議你研擬要如何解決這些問題跟亂象，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：好，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：整個資本市場不斷壯大的情況下，弊案隨之增加，這也不是好事，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：當然。"],["郭委員國文：一個月可以吧？"],["彭主任委員金隆：可以，我們把相關的一些……"],["郭委員國文：把問題點釐清清楚，制度怎麼解決，政府的態度如何，要對投資大眾講清楚，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：那當然。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝主委，謝謝主席。"],["彭主任委員金隆：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝郭委員，請彭主委一個月內提報告。","接下來請賴惠員委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-2","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","林思銘","顏寬恒","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","李彥秀","王世堅","葛如鈞","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","林楚茵","邱志偉","陳玉珍","羅明才"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬機關首長暨中央存款保險股份有限公司、監管相\n關機構有關之財團法人、臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司、臺灣期貨交易所股份有限公司、臺灣集\n中保管結算所股份有限公司等董事長、總經理列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00002"}}}