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{\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 622.905, \"end\": 623.685, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 623.685, \"end\": 623.925, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 623.925, \"end\": 624.126, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 624.126, \"end\": 624.306, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 624.306, \"end\": 624.426, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 624.426, \"end\": 624.526, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 624.526, \"end\": 624.686, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 624.686, \"end\": 625.246, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 625.246, \"end\": 625.407, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 625.407, \"end\": 625.427, \"score\": 1.0}]}, {\"start\": 626.147, \"end\": 654.378, \"text\": \"就是說主要都有民眾檢舉嘛或者競爭對手的檢舉最多常遇到這樣子嘛那再來就是說等媒體爆料啦或者明帶質詢啦這個也不少那再來就是你們的主動調查大概不出這三大類那我們其實也會了解說這三類的比例大概是多少署長有沒有了解\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 626.147, 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\"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 798.953, \"end\": 799.093, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"员\", \"start\": 799.093, \"end\": 799.113, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,247 --> 00:00:10,841\n好謝謝主席我們先請衛福部長先休息一下然後那個食藥署署長請食藥署江署長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:16,798 --> 00:00:36,928\n署長好最近在屏東有查獲一件豬腸它使用工業用雙氧水漂白的食安事件我首先要請教署長在這件事情之後這件事情之所以被發現是請教你們是由民眾檢舉還是說由你們南區主動稽查發現的這個是民眾檢舉在6月份的時候\n\n3\n00:00:40,489 --> 00:01:06,739\n好謝謝那署長您是這個醫學背景的專家應該要很清楚就是說這個實案的問題就是說我們越早發現就可以越早阻斷那阻斷民眾去使用就可以避免後續很多疾病的發生那醫生也就不用耗費心力去治療也可以避免耗費很多的健保資源所以署長的職責是相當重要的\n\n4\n00:01:08,139 --> 00:01:23,328\n這次的事件本市有注意到你們在不到一周的時間就調查就查了查清楚這個問題豬場的流布那回收下架了未使用的豬場同時呢也給予這些不肖業者\n\n5\n00:01:25,410 --> 00:01:53,084\n相当重的这个重罚那本席基本上要肯定食药署这一次的这个危机处理的能力但是呢还是有部分的这个问题猪肠被民众使用了所以我想这件事我们还是有可以有检讨的空间我另外要请教就是说这批违法猪肠到底还有就是有多少是被民众吃下肚的\n\n6\n00:01:54,079 --> 00:02:11,387\n後來我們精算包括我們在風存的部分目前是1264604公斤的風存到最末梢的所謂的肉店裡面購買我們在現場查扣其實145公斤\n\n7\n00:02:12,828 --> 00:02:31,754\n整體我們加起來真的在這個過程中讓國人因為這樣子進入市場而食用有784公斤那這個部分我們在部長特別指示之下我們對於整個流程我們也做很多行政上目前持續在檢討當中所以就是你們的精算是784\n\n8\n00:02:33,735 --> 00:02:46,830\n784公斤流入市面被民眾吃下肚是的那在這批百威在這批之前就是他們還進了多少豬大腸你們有調查嗎\n\n9\n00:02:48,790 --> 00:03:04,300\n這邊跟委員進一步說明因為這家廠商他完全連登記都沒有登記所以是第一個所以他被罰了300萬的未登記那也沒有GHP所以在這種前提之下我們的確不是能夠確確的掌握之前的一個完全的狀況\n\n10\n00:03:05,260 --> 00:03:24,631\n但是我們一起動了解他從6月18號我們看到他的所謂進出的貨單裡面把所有的把他調出來之後得到的剛才的一張說明的簡單的數字在這個之前我是說在這一批之前你們是調不到數據沒有辦法掌握\n\n11\n00:03:26,567 --> 00:03:46,263\n那這部分跟委員報告檢方在部分已經有查扣相關的資訊那我們也有去跟檢方去協調能不能取得更前部分的一些資料我想這個部分是很重要的所以你們有主動跟檢方去要他之前的這個進口的這個數量\n\n12\n00:03:49,085 --> 00:04:06,467\n對目前我們都有提出了好那這樣子表示你們有意識到這個問題那所以後續呢也麻煩食藥署持續的追蹤把這個就是百威之前所進的這個豬大腸那個數量要麻煩你們還是要估算一下\n\n13\n00:04:07,368 --> 00:04:25,156\n因為畢竟我想這個已經有不良前科那過去他們這一家在應該基本上都是用同樣的方式用雙氧水工業用雙氧水去洗這個豬大腸的這個量你們後續在有掌握到資訊的時候再麻煩跟我們辦公室說一下\n\n14\n00:04:28,597 --> 00:04:50,048\n基本上本土新鮮的豬腸應該是不需要再使用雙氧水去漂白因為新鮮的豬腸基本上它就白得還滿漂亮的事件過後高雄市政府調查630家及屏東縣政府調查了84家業者總共700多家全數都合格\n\n15\n00:04:50,768 --> 00:05:10,140\n那有需要用雙氧水清洗賣相差的應該是國外進口來的這個部分是需要經過關務署來放行那請教一下署長就是食藥署對於國外進口的食材有沒有掌握進口的品項數量跟進口商的資料\n\n16\n00:05:11,341 --> 00:05:39,858\n這部分跟委員進一步說明因為關務署進來我們在邊境的時候事實上我們用所謂的邊境的BPIprotection保護的人工智慧的系統裡面所以關務署的資料跟我們這邊進來的資料在邊境裡面是非常清楚的所有的相關的數字對因為主要是我這樣問主要還是關心就是說如果說你們這些都可以掌握的話那應該就是可以掌握百威之前他們所有進口的數量\n\n17\n00:05:41,007 --> 00:06:03,927\n就是說這一次的案件裡面就我們了解是在所謂屠宰場旁邊那個貨櫃屋裡面其實是相對直接是在場內的我們目前的資訊掌握好像並沒有是場外的或者進口進來的出廠在這邊做進一步的加工我想這個問題你們有必要你們有必要可以再去了解一下是的一定會的\n\n18\n00:06:04,668 --> 00:06:24,539\n那我再請教就是說你們各區北中南管理中心對於這個轄區的食品業者有沒有登記列管這個都是有在機械登記的列管這家是非常特殊的他連登記都沒有登記重點是就是說那有登記列管這些然後登記之後你們是如何管理怎麼管啊有列管啊你們怎麼管\n\n19\n00:06:31,892 --> 00:06:55,040\n我們其實每一家廠商它必須要符合第一個GHP的管理那對於食品的廠不同的廠的一個規模大小它必須要做成品半成品進來之後完全它的批次所謂的電子發票跟電子登錄目前剛才部長也有進一步說明都達到九成以上\n\n20\n00:06:55,740 --> 00:07:20,409\n那如果沒有去做登錄的我們其實按照三法的違法在48條的時候可以罰三萬到三百萬的一個經費目前我們持續會讓他的登錄能夠更完整電子發票的勾結能夠更明顯的完成好那個經濟部登記的公司行號如果是做這個食品加工進口業進口的業者你們食藥署有就是\n\n21\n00:07:21,625 --> 00:07:27,654\n有沒有建立資料庫去了解就是說相關的營運銷貨跟環境管理啦\n\n22\n00:07:29,266 --> 00:07:58,327\n有吗是的有的我们登录的时候因为这家厂商营运销货跟环境管理因为厂商他们会预登记所以他预登记的跟我们的厂商之间会有差异所以我们七十几万家的食品厂里面我们今年度查起来有四万两千家其实是中间是有差异的所以我们目前直接就折成卫生局针对这四万两千家进一步去查查他的所谓的登记项目跟所谓的营业项目的部分能够达到一致\n\n23\n00:07:58,527 --> 00:08:19,765\n我想是這樣因為本席想要建議一下就是說在過去你們可以拿出去處理醬油業者的那種精神跟魄力去處理這些就是豬大腸的這個事件應該就可以立刻被解決因為這個是發生在署長來之前你們可以好好去了解一下\n\n24\n00:08:20,546 --> 00:08:49,184\n好的谢谢委员用对地方那再从这一次的这个事件虽然你们有就是说立即的处理能力算是不错但是如果说你们可以在第一时间就掌握了这个就掌握就可以避免这个问题猪肠流出被使用这部分是需要靠平时的这个基本控那举例而言就是说进口的猪肠长途运送的这个过程当中容易变色产生腥味\n\n25\n00:08:50,244 --> 00:09:10,058\n部分的中盤商還有這個或者食品加工業者他們為了賣相好那本來就很容易去漂白嘛廠商他可以選擇合法的這個食品級的雙氧水那他也有可能使用的這個違法的工業級的雙氧水所以\n\n26\n00:09:10,898 --> 00:09:30,272\n需要不定期的不斷的去稽查那對於這個合法的這個廠商該有的稽查頻率需要你們考量就是有限的人力跟物力所以我相信就是說相較於這個藥品的管理這個食品的管理其實它是更加複雜的\n\n27\n00:09:32,673 --> 00:09:42,980\n目前想再請教署長就是說你們有沒有針對這個進口食材有這個積茶頻率的數據或者是說有積茶百分比的數據\n\n28\n00:09:45,063 --> 00:10:01,409\n我們對於進口的產品其實在邊境裡面就會進入於攔截所以這個攔截我們常態的是在5到10%如果對於它過去的違規的違法行為裡面一旦被查查之後我們現在剛才提到BPI會隨著它的\n\n29\n00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:25,427\n過去的歷史而調高他的風險最高是調到每一竹匹的茶茶5%到10%10%到50%甚至進一步到100%因為每一次的這個食安的事件很多啦就是我的理解我們看到常常就是說最多\n\n30\n00:10:26,147 --> 00:10:54,378\n就是說主要都有民眾檢舉嘛或者競爭對手的檢舉最多常遇到這樣子嘛那再來就是說等媒體爆料啦或者明帶質詢啦這個也不少那再來就是你們的主動調查大概不出這三大類那我們其實也會了解說這三類的比例大概是多少署長有沒有了解\n\n31\n00:10:56,099 --> 00:11:22,580\n其實在我們邊境以及我們的資訊系統面攔查了還是佔了一定的比例因為這樣子的其實都不會特別被揭露出來但不可否認就是大部分的比例是民眾檢舉或者是競爭對手的檢舉這個幾乎是佔相當大的比例吧這個的確是有一定的比例那我想是說重點是不管是怎麼樣就是說在就是說\n\n32\n00:11:23,620 --> 00:11:50,111\n你們後續那個放行之後進來之後那放行之後有沒有查驗或者是出事了之後再去做這個亡羊補牢的時候調查我們其實在前端的攔截以外後市場的稽查每一年我們都有特定的專案性的稽查是常態性的因為現在是有這個除了對於合法廠商不定期稽查那非法的地下廠商你們其實根本是\n\n33\n00:11:51,824 --> 00:12:20,725\n也很難說積極的去主動調查就這個部分跟委員報告一下我們針對的所謂的登記跟實際上營業的部分我們在跨部會我們會積極的更把現在遇到的一些需要更能夠勾結更完整的所以剛才提到的比如說營業相次跟一些登記的相次跟實際上營業上面沒辦法吻合的4.2萬家我們就會交衛生局積極的去查\n\n34\n00:12:21,306 --> 00:12:36,524\n就是市要署的人力物力是有限啦就是說當然我們盡量去滿足這個人力上的需求還有這個經費上的需求但是我們的責任是要把這些經費跟人力全部把它規劃好\n\n35\n00:12:37,885 --> 00:13:04,710\n那我们国内很多专业的团体跟非政府组织那一起也可以一起来为国家的食品食安来把关所以很多的公权力我们也可以委托来使用那特别是样品的取得化验都可以跟外界来做结合那这样还有进口食材这个流布厂商的必要管理我们很重要我现在要讲就是说建立电子化的这个资料库我想是要做这个呃\n\n36\n00:13:06,170 --> 00:13:19,113\n很重要的建议这个资料库的建议是对我们未来的食安管理是很重要的所以这个部分希望你们能够多加油是的谢谢谢谢委员\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2247\t10841\t好謝謝主席我們先請衛福部長先休息一下然後那個食藥署署長請食藥署江署長委員好\n16798\t36928\t署長好 最近在屏東有查獲一件豬腸它使用工業用雙氧水漂白的食安事件我首先要請教署長 在這件事情之後這件事情之所以被發現是請教你們是由民眾檢舉還是說由你們南區主動稽查發現的這個是民眾檢舉在6月份的時候\n40489\t66739\t好 謝謝那署長您是這個醫學背景的專家應該要很清楚就是說這個實案的問題就是說我們越早發現就可以越早阻斷那阻斷民眾去使用就可以避免後續很多疾病的發生那醫生也就不用耗費心力去治療也可以避免耗費很多的健保資源所以署長的職責是相當重要的\n68139\t83328\t這次的事件本市有注意到你們在不到一周的時間就調查就查了查清楚這個問題豬場的流布那回收下架了未使用的豬場同時呢也給予這些不肖業者\n85410\t113084\t相当重的这个重罚那本席基本上要肯定食药署这一次的这个危机处理的能力但是呢还是有部分的这个问题猪肠被民众使用了所以我想这件事我们还是有可以有检讨的空间我另外要请教就是说这批违法猪肠到底还有就是有多少是被民众吃下肚的\n114079\t131387\t後來我們精算包括我們在風存的部分目前是1264604公斤的風存到最末梢的所謂的肉店裡面購買我們在現場查扣其實145公斤\n132828\t151754\t整體我們加起來真的在這個過程中讓國人因為這樣子進入市場而食用有784公斤那這個部分我們在部長特別指示之下我們對於整個流程我們也做很多行政上目前持續在檢討當中所以就是你們的精算是784\n153735\t166830\t784公斤流入市面被民眾吃下肚是的那在這批百威在這批之前就是他們還進了多少豬大腸你們有調查嗎\n168790\t184300\t這邊跟委員進一步說明因為這家廠商他完全連登記都沒有登記所以是第一個所以他被罰了300萬的未登記那也沒有GHP所以在這種前提之下我們的確不是能夠確確的掌握之前的一個完全的狀況\n185260\t204631\t但是我們一起動了解他從6月18號我們看到他的所謂進出的貨單裡面把所有的把他調出來之後得到的剛才的一張說明的簡單的數字在這個之前我是說在這一批之前你們是調不到數據沒有辦法掌握\n206567\t226263\t那這部分跟委員報告檢方在部分已經有查扣相關的資訊那我們也有去跟檢方去協調能不能取得更前部分的一些資料我想這個部分是很重要的所以你們有主動跟檢方去要他之前的這個進口的這個數量\n229085\t246467\t對 目前我們都有提出了好 那這樣子表示你們有意識到這個問題那所以後續呢也麻煩食藥署持續的追蹤把這個就是百威之前所進的這個豬大腸那個數量要麻煩你們還是要估算一下\n247368\t265156\t因為畢竟我想這個已經有不良前科那過去他們這一家在應該基本上都是用同樣的方式用雙氧水工業用雙氧水去洗這個豬大腸的這個量你們後續在有掌握到資訊的時候再麻煩跟我們辦公室說一下\n268597\t290048\t基本上本土新鮮的豬腸應該是不需要再使用雙氧水去漂白因為新鮮的豬腸基本上它就白得還滿漂亮的事件過後高雄市政府調查630家及屏東縣政府調查了84家業者總共700多家全數都合格\n290768\t310140\t那有需要用雙氧水清洗賣相差的應該是國外進口來的這個部分是需要經過關務署來放行那請教一下署長就是食藥署對於國外進口的食材有沒有掌握進口的品項數量跟進口商的資料\n311341\t339858\t這部分跟委員進一步說明因為關務署進來我們在邊境的時候事實上我們用所謂的邊境的BPI protection保護的人工智慧的系統裡面所以關務署的資料跟我們這邊進來的資料在邊境裡面是非常清楚的所有的相關的數字對 因為主要是我這樣問主要還是關心就是說如果說你們這些都可以掌握的話那應該就是可以掌握百威之前他們所有進口的數量\n341007\t363927\t就是說這一次的案件裡面就我們了解是在所謂屠宰場旁邊那個貨櫃屋裡面其實是相對直接是在場內的我們目前的資訊掌握好像並沒有是場外的或者進口進來的出廠在這邊做進一步的加工我想這個問題你們有必要你們有必要可以再去了解一下是的 一定會的\n364668\t384539\t那我再請教就是說你們各區北中南管理中心對於這個轄區的食品業者有沒有登記列管這個都是有在機械登記的列管這家是非常特殊的他連登記都沒有登記重點是就是說那有登記列管這些然後登記之後你們是如何管理怎麼管啊有列管啊你們怎麼管\n391892\t415040\t我們其實每一家廠商它必須要符合第一個GHP的管理那對於食品的廠不同的廠的一個規模大小它必須要做成品 半成品進來之後完全它的批次所謂的電子發票跟電子登錄目前剛才部長也有進一步說明都達到九成以上\n415740\t440409\t那如果沒有去做登錄的我們其實按照三法的違法在48條的時候可以罰三萬到三百萬的一個經費目前我們持續會讓他的登錄能夠更完整電子發票的勾結能夠更明顯的完成好 那個經濟部登記的公司行號如果是做這個食品加工進口業 進口的業者你們食藥署有 就是\n441625\t447654\t有沒有建立資料庫去了解就是說相關的營運銷貨跟環境管理啦\n449266\t478327\t有吗是的有的我们登录的时候因为这家厂商营运销货跟环境管理因为厂商他们会预登记所以他预登记的跟我们的厂商之间会有差异所以我们七十几万家的食品厂里面我们今年度查起来有四万两千家其实是中间是有差异的所以我们目前直接就折成卫生局针对这四万两千家进一步去查查他的所谓的登记项目跟所谓的营业项目的部分能够达到一致\n478527\t499765\t我想是這樣因為本席想要建議一下就是說在過去你們可以拿出去處理醬油業者的那種精神跟魄力去處理這些就是豬大腸的這個事件應該就可以立刻被解決因為這個是發生在署長來之前你們可以好好去了解一下\n500546\t529184\t好的 谢谢委员用对地方那再从这一次的这个事件虽然你们有就是说立即的处理能力算是不错但是如果说你们可以在第一时间就掌握了这个就掌握就可以避免这个问题猪肠流出被使用这部分是需要靠平时的这个基本控那举例而言就是说进口的猪肠长途运送的这个过程当中容易变色产生腥味\n530244\t550058\t部分的中盤商還有這個或者食品加工業者他們為了賣相好那本來就很容易去漂白嘛廠商他可以選擇合法的這個食品級的雙氧水那他也有可能使用的這個違法的工業級的雙氧水所以\n550898\t570272\t需要不定期的不斷的去稽查那對於這個合法的這個廠商該有的稽查頻率需要你們考量就是有限的人力跟物力所以我相信就是說相較於這個藥品的管理這個食品的管理其實它是更加複雜的\n572673\t582980\t目前想再請教署長就是說你們有沒有針對這個進口食材有這個積茶頻率的數據或者是說有積茶百分比的數據\n585063\t601409\t我們對於進口的產品其實在邊境裡面就會進入於攔截所以這個攔截我們常態的是在5到10%如果對於它過去的違規的違法行為裡面一旦被查查之後我們現在剛才提到BPI會隨著它的\n603830\t625427\t過去的歷史而調高他的風險最高是調到每一竹匹的茶茶5%到10%10%到50%甚至進一步到100%因為每一次的這個食安的事件很多啦就是我的理解我們看到常常就是說最多\n626147\t654378\t就是說主要都有民眾檢舉嘛或者競爭對手的檢舉最多常遇到這樣子嘛那再來就是說等媒體爆料啦或者明帶質詢啦這個也不少那再來就是你們的主動調查大概不出這三大類那我們其實也會了解說這三類的比例大概是多少署長有沒有了解\n656099\t682580\t其實在我們邊境以及我們的資訊系統面攔查了還是佔了一定的比例因為這樣子的其實都不會特別被揭露出來但不可否認就是大部分的比例是民眾檢舉或者是競爭對手的檢舉這個幾乎是佔相當大的比例吧這個的確是有一定的比例那我想是說重點是不管是怎麼樣就是說在就是說\n683620\t710111\t你們後續那個放行之後進來之後那放行之後有沒有查驗或者是出事了之後再去做這個亡羊補牢的時候調查我們其實在前端的攔截以外後市場的稽查每一年我們都有特定的專案性的稽查是常態性的因為現在是有這個除了對於合法廠商不定期稽查那非法的地下廠商你們其實根本是\n711824\t740725\t也很難說積極的去主動調查就這個部分跟委員報告一下我們針對的所謂的登記跟實際上營業的部分我們在跨部會我們會積極的更把現在遇到的一些需要更能夠勾結更完整的所以剛才提到的比如說營業相次跟一些登記的相次跟實際上營業上面沒辦法吻合的4.2萬家我們就會交衛生局積極的去查\n741306\t756524\t就是市要署的人力物力是有限啦就是說當然我們盡量去滿足這個人力上的需求還有這個經費上的需求但是我們的責任是要把這些經費跟人力全部把它規劃好\n757885\t784710\t那我们国内很多专业的团体跟非政府组织那一起也可以一起来为国家的食品食安来把关所以很多的公权力我们也可以委托来使用那特别是样品的取得化验都可以跟外界来做结合那这样还有进口食材这个流布厂商的必要管理我们很重要我现在要讲就是说建立电子化的这个资料库我想是要做这个呃\n786170\t799113\t很重要的建议这个资料库的建议是对我们未来的食安管理是很重要的所以这个部分希望你们能够多加油是的 谢谢谢谢委员\n","txt":"好謝謝主席我們先請衛福部長先休息一下然後那個食藥署署長請食藥署江署長委員好\n署長好 最近在屏東有查獲一件豬腸它使用工業用雙氧水漂白的食安事件我首先要請教署長 在這件事情之後這件事情之所以被發現是請教你們是由民眾檢舉還是說由你們南區主動稽查發現的這個是民眾檢舉在6月份的時候\n好 謝謝那署長您是這個醫學背景的專家應該要很清楚就是說這個實案的問題就是說我們越早發現就可以越早阻斷那阻斷民眾去使用就可以避免後續很多疾病的發生那醫生也就不用耗費心力去治療也可以避免耗費很多的健保資源所以署長的職責是相當重要的\n這次的事件本市有注意到你們在不到一周的時間就調查就查了查清楚這個問題豬場的流布那回收下架了未使用的豬場同時呢也給予這些不肖業者\n相当重的这个重罚那本席基本上要肯定食药署这一次的这个危机处理的能力但是呢还是有部分的这个问题猪肠被民众使用了所以我想这件事我们还是有可以有检讨的空间我另外要请教就是说这批违法猪肠到底还有就是有多少是被民众吃下肚的\n後來我們精算包括我們在風存的部分目前是1264604公斤的風存到最末梢的所謂的肉店裡面購買我們在現場查扣其實145公斤\n整體我們加起來真的在這個過程中讓國人因為這樣子進入市場而食用有784公斤那這個部分我們在部長特別指示之下我們對於整個流程我們也做很多行政上目前持續在檢討當中所以就是你們的精算是784\n784公斤流入市面被民眾吃下肚是的那在這批百威在這批之前就是他們還進了多少豬大腸你們有調查嗎\n這邊跟委員進一步說明因為這家廠商他完全連登記都沒有登記所以是第一個所以他被罰了300萬的未登記那也沒有GHP所以在這種前提之下我們的確不是能夠確確的掌握之前的一個完全的狀況\n但是我們一起動了解他從6月18號我們看到他的所謂進出的貨單裡面把所有的把他調出來之後得到的剛才的一張說明的簡單的數字在這個之前我是說在這一批之前你們是調不到數據沒有辦法掌握\n那這部分跟委員報告檢方在部分已經有查扣相關的資訊那我們也有去跟檢方去協調能不能取得更前部分的一些資料我想這個部分是很重要的所以你們有主動跟檢方去要他之前的這個進口的這個數量\n對 目前我們都有提出了好 那這樣子表示你們有意識到這個問題那所以後續呢也麻煩食藥署持續的追蹤把這個就是百威之前所進的這個豬大腸那個數量要麻煩你們還是要估算一下\n因為畢竟我想這個已經有不良前科那過去他們這一家在應該基本上都是用同樣的方式用雙氧水工業用雙氧水去洗這個豬大腸的這個量你們後續在有掌握到資訊的時候再麻煩跟我們辦公室說一下\n基本上本土新鮮的豬腸應該是不需要再使用雙氧水去漂白因為新鮮的豬腸基本上它就白得還滿漂亮的事件過後高雄市政府調查630家及屏東縣政府調查了84家業者總共700多家全數都合格\n那有需要用雙氧水清洗賣相差的應該是國外進口來的這個部分是需要經過關務署來放行那請教一下署長就是食藥署對於國外進口的食材有沒有掌握進口的品項數量跟進口商的資料\n這部分跟委員進一步說明因為關務署進來我們在邊境的時候事實上我們用所謂的邊境的BPI protection保護的人工智慧的系統裡面所以關務署的資料跟我們這邊進來的資料在邊境裡面是非常清楚的所有的相關的數字對 因為主要是我這樣問主要還是關心就是說如果說你們這些都可以掌握的話那應該就是可以掌握百威之前他們所有進口的數量\n就是說這一次的案件裡面就我們了解是在所謂屠宰場旁邊那個貨櫃屋裡面其實是相對直接是在場內的我們目前的資訊掌握好像並沒有是場外的或者進口進來的出廠在這邊做進一步的加工我想這個問題你們有必要你們有必要可以再去了解一下是的 一定會的\n那我再請教就是說你們各區北中南管理中心對於這個轄區的食品業者有沒有登記列管這個都是有在機械登記的列管這家是非常特殊的他連登記都沒有登記重點是就是說那有登記列管這些然後登記之後你們是如何管理怎麼管啊有列管啊你們怎麼管\n我們其實每一家廠商它必須要符合第一個GHP的管理那對於食品的廠不同的廠的一個規模大小它必須要做成品 半成品進來之後完全它的批次所謂的電子發票跟電子登錄目前剛才部長也有進一步說明都達到九成以上\n那如果沒有去做登錄的我們其實按照三法的違法在48條的時候可以罰三萬到三百萬的一個經費目前我們持續會讓他的登錄能夠更完整電子發票的勾結能夠更明顯的完成好 那個經濟部登記的公司行號如果是做這個食品加工進口業 進口的業者你們食藥署有 就是\n有沒有建立資料庫去了解就是說相關的營運銷貨跟環境管理啦\n有吗是的有的我们登录的时候因为这家厂商营运销货跟环境管理因为厂商他们会预登记所以他预登记的跟我们的厂商之间会有差异所以我们七十几万家的食品厂里面我们今年度查起来有四万两千家其实是中间是有差异的所以我们目前直接就折成卫生局针对这四万两千家进一步去查查他的所谓的登记项目跟所谓的营业项目的部分能够达到一致\n我想是這樣因為本席想要建議一下就是說在過去你們可以拿出去處理醬油業者的那種精神跟魄力去處理這些就是豬大腸的這個事件應該就可以立刻被解決因為這個是發生在署長來之前你們可以好好去了解一下\n好的 谢谢委员用对地方那再从这一次的这个事件虽然你们有就是说立即的处理能力算是不错但是如果说你们可以在第一时间就掌握了这个就掌握就可以避免这个问题猪肠流出被使用这部分是需要靠平时的这个基本控那举例而言就是说进口的猪肠长途运送的这个过程当中容易变色产生腥味\n部分的中盤商還有這個或者食品加工業者他們為了賣相好那本來就很容易去漂白嘛廠商他可以選擇合法的這個食品級的雙氧水那他也有可能使用的這個違法的工業級的雙氧水所以\n需要不定期的不斷的去稽查那對於這個合法的這個廠商該有的稽查頻率需要你們考量就是有限的人力跟物力所以我相信就是說相較於這個藥品的管理這個食品的管理其實它是更加複雜的\n目前想再請教署長就是說你們有沒有針對這個進口食材有這個積茶頻率的數據或者是說有積茶百分比的數據\n我們對於進口的產品其實在邊境裡面就會進入於攔截所以這個攔截我們常態的是在5到10%如果對於它過去的違規的違法行為裡面一旦被查查之後我們現在剛才提到BPI會隨著它的\n過去的歷史而調高他的風險最高是調到每一竹匹的茶茶5%到10%10%到50%甚至進一步到100%因為每一次的這個食安的事件很多啦就是我的理解我們看到常常就是說最多\n就是說主要都有民眾檢舉嘛或者競爭對手的檢舉最多常遇到這樣子嘛那再來就是說等媒體爆料啦或者明帶質詢啦這個也不少那再來就是你們的主動調查大概不出這三大類那我們其實也會了解說這三類的比例大概是多少署長有沒有了解\n其實在我們邊境以及我們的資訊系統面攔查了還是佔了一定的比例因為這樣子的其實都不會特別被揭露出來但不可否認就是大部分的比例是民眾檢舉或者是競爭對手的檢舉這個幾乎是佔相當大的比例吧這個的確是有一定的比例那我想是說重點是不管是怎麼樣就是說在就是說\n你們後續那個放行之後進來之後那放行之後有沒有查驗或者是出事了之後再去做這個亡羊補牢的時候調查我們其實在前端的攔截以外後市場的稽查每一年我們都有特定的專案性的稽查是常態性的因為現在是有這個除了對於合法廠商不定期稽查那非法的地下廠商你們其實根本是\n也很難說積極的去主動調查就這個部分跟委員報告一下我們針對的所謂的登記跟實際上營業的部分我們在跨部會我們會積極的更把現在遇到的一些需要更能夠勾結更完整的所以剛才提到的比如說營業相次跟一些登記的相次跟實際上營業上面沒辦法吻合的4.2萬家我們就會交衛生局積極的去查\n就是市要署的人力物力是有限啦就是說當然我們盡量去滿足這個人力上的需求還有這個經費上的需求但是我們的責任是要把這些經費跟人力全部把它規劃好\n那我们国内很多专业的团体跟非政府组织那一起也可以一起来为国家的食品食安来把关所以很多的公权力我们也可以委托来使用那特别是样品的取得化验都可以跟外界来做结合那这样还有进口食材这个流布厂商的必要管理我们很重要我现在要讲就是说建立电子化的这个资料库我想是要做这个呃\n很重要的建议这个资料库的建议是对我们未来的食安管理是很重要的所以这个部分希望你们能够多加油是的 谢谢谢谢委员\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.247 --> 00:10.841\n好謝謝主席我們先請衛福部長先休息一下然後那個食藥署署長請食藥署江署長委員好\n\n00:16.798 --> 00:36.928\n署長好最近在屏東有查獲一件豬腸它使用工業用雙氧水漂白的食安事件我首先要請教署長在這件事情之後這件事情之所以被發現是請教你們是由民眾檢舉還是說由你們南區主動稽查發現的這個是民眾檢舉在6月份的時候\n\n00:40.489 --> 01:06.739\n好謝謝那署長您是這個醫學背景的專家應該要很清楚就是說這個實案的問題就是說我們越早發現就可以越早阻斷那阻斷民眾去使用就可以避免後續很多疾病的發生那醫生也就不用耗費心力去治療也可以避免耗費很多的健保資源所以署長的職責是相當重要的\n\n01:08.139 --> 01:23.328\n這次的事件本市有注意到你們在不到一周的時間就調查就查了查清楚這個問題豬場的流布那回收下架了未使用的豬場同時呢也給予這些不肖業者\n\n01:25.410 --> 01:53.084\n相当重的这个重罚那本席基本上要肯定食药署这一次的这个危机处理的能力但是呢还是有部分的这个问题猪肠被民众使用了所以我想这件事我们还是有可以有检讨的空间我另外要请教就是说这批违法猪肠到底还有就是有多少是被民众吃下肚的\n\n01:54.079 --> 02:11.387\n後來我們精算包括我們在風存的部分目前是1264604公斤的風存到最末梢的所謂的肉店裡面購買我們在現場查扣其實145公斤\n\n02:12.828 --> 02:31.754\n整體我們加起來真的在這個過程中讓國人因為這樣子進入市場而食用有784公斤那這個部分我們在部長特別指示之下我們對於整個流程我們也做很多行政上目前持續在檢討當中所以就是你們的精算是784\n\n02:33.735 --> 02:46.830\n784公斤流入市面被民眾吃下肚是的那在這批百威在這批之前就是他們還進了多少豬大腸你們有調查嗎\n\n02:48.790 --> 03:04.300\n這邊跟委員進一步說明因為這家廠商他完全連登記都沒有登記所以是第一個所以他被罰了300萬的未登記那也沒有GHP所以在這種前提之下我們的確不是能夠確確的掌握之前的一個完全的狀況\n\n03:05.260 --> 03:24.631\n但是我們一起動了解他從6月18號我們看到他的所謂進出的貨單裡面把所有的把他調出來之後得到的剛才的一張說明的簡單的數字在這個之前我是說在這一批之前你們是調不到數據沒有辦法掌握\n\n03:26.567 --> 03:46.263\n那這部分跟委員報告檢方在部分已經有查扣相關的資訊那我們也有去跟檢方去協調能不能取得更前部分的一些資料我想這個部分是很重要的所以你們有主動跟檢方去要他之前的這個進口的這個數量\n\n03:49.085 --> 04:06.467\n對目前我們都有提出了好那這樣子表示你們有意識到這個問題那所以後續呢也麻煩食藥署持續的追蹤把這個就是百威之前所進的這個豬大腸那個數量要麻煩你們還是要估算一下\n\n04:07.368 --> 04:25.156\n因為畢竟我想這個已經有不良前科那過去他們這一家在應該基本上都是用同樣的方式用雙氧水工業用雙氧水去洗這個豬大腸的這個量你們後續在有掌握到資訊的時候再麻煩跟我們辦公室說一下\n\n04:28.597 --> 04:50.048\n基本上本土新鮮的豬腸應該是不需要再使用雙氧水去漂白因為新鮮的豬腸基本上它就白得還滿漂亮的事件過後高雄市政府調查630家及屏東縣政府調查了84家業者總共700多家全數都合格\n\n04:50.768 --> 05:10.140\n那有需要用雙氧水清洗賣相差的應該是國外進口來的這個部分是需要經過關務署來放行那請教一下署長就是食藥署對於國外進口的食材有沒有掌握進口的品項數量跟進口商的資料\n\n05:11.341 --> 05:39.858\n這部分跟委員進一步說明因為關務署進來我們在邊境的時候事實上我們用所謂的邊境的BPIprotection保護的人工智慧的系統裡面所以關務署的資料跟我們這邊進來的資料在邊境裡面是非常清楚的所有的相關的數字對因為主要是我這樣問主要還是關心就是說如果說你們這些都可以掌握的話那應該就是可以掌握百威之前他們所有進口的數量\n\n05:41.007 --> 06:03.927\n就是說這一次的案件裡面就我們了解是在所謂屠宰場旁邊那個貨櫃屋裡面其實是相對直接是在場內的我們目前的資訊掌握好像並沒有是場外的或者進口進來的出廠在這邊做進一步的加工我想這個問題你們有必要你們有必要可以再去了解一下是的一定會的\n\n06:04.668 --> 06:24.539\n那我再請教就是說你們各區北中南管理中心對於這個轄區的食品業者有沒有登記列管這個都是有在機械登記的列管這家是非常特殊的他連登記都沒有登記重點是就是說那有登記列管這些然後登記之後你們是如何管理怎麼管啊有列管啊你們怎麼管\n\n06:31.892 --> 06:55.040\n我們其實每一家廠商它必須要符合第一個GHP的管理那對於食品的廠不同的廠的一個規模大小它必須要做成品半成品進來之後完全它的批次所謂的電子發票跟電子登錄目前剛才部長也有進一步說明都達到九成以上\n\n06:55.740 --> 07:20.409\n那如果沒有去做登錄的我們其實按照三法的違法在48條的時候可以罰三萬到三百萬的一個經費目前我們持續會讓他的登錄能夠更完整電子發票的勾結能夠更明顯的完成好那個經濟部登記的公司行號如果是做這個食品加工進口業進口的業者你們食藥署有就是\n\n07:21.625 --> 07:27.654\n有沒有建立資料庫去了解就是說相關的營運銷貨跟環境管理啦\n\n07:29.266 --> 07:58.327\n有吗是的有的我们登录的时候因为这家厂商营运销货跟环境管理因为厂商他们会预登记所以他预登记的跟我们的厂商之间会有差异所以我们七十几万家的食品厂里面我们今年度查起来有四万两千家其实是中间是有差异的所以我们目前直接就折成卫生局针对这四万两千家进一步去查查他的所谓的登记项目跟所谓的营业项目的部分能够达到一致\n\n07:58.527 --> 08:19.765\n我想是這樣因為本席想要建議一下就是說在過去你們可以拿出去處理醬油業者的那種精神跟魄力去處理這些就是豬大腸的這個事件應該就可以立刻被解決因為這個是發生在署長來之前你們可以好好去了解一下\n\n08:20.546 --> 08:49.184\n好的谢谢委员用对地方那再从这一次的这个事件虽然你们有就是说立即的处理能力算是不错但是如果说你们可以在第一时间就掌握了这个就掌握就可以避免这个问题猪肠流出被使用这部分是需要靠平时的这个基本控那举例而言就是说进口的猪肠长途运送的这个过程当中容易变色产生腥味\n\n08:50.244 --> 09:10.058\n部分的中盤商還有這個或者食品加工業者他們為了賣相好那本來就很容易去漂白嘛廠商他可以選擇合法的這個食品級的雙氧水那他也有可能使用的這個違法的工業級的雙氧水所以\n\n09:10.898 --> 09:30.272\n需要不定期的不斷的去稽查那對於這個合法的這個廠商該有的稽查頻率需要你們考量就是有限的人力跟物力所以我相信就是說相較於這個藥品的管理這個食品的管理其實它是更加複雜的\n\n09:32.673 --> 09:42.980\n目前想再請教署長就是說你們有沒有針對這個進口食材有這個積茶頻率的數據或者是說有積茶百分比的數據\n\n09:45.063 --> 10:01.409\n我們對於進口的產品其實在邊境裡面就會進入於攔截所以這個攔截我們常態的是在5到10%如果對於它過去的違規的違法行為裡面一旦被查查之後我們現在剛才提到BPI會隨著它的\n\n10:03.830 --> 10:25.427\n過去的歷史而調高他的風險最高是調到每一竹匹的茶茶5%到10%10%到50%甚至進一步到100%因為每一次的這個食安的事件很多啦就是我的理解我們看到常常就是說最多\n\n10:26.147 --> 10:54.378\n就是說主要都有民眾檢舉嘛或者競爭對手的檢舉最多常遇到這樣子嘛那再來就是說等媒體爆料啦或者明帶質詢啦這個也不少那再來就是你們的主動調查大概不出這三大類那我們其實也會了解說這三類的比例大概是多少署長有沒有了解\n\n10:56.099 --> 11:22.580\n其實在我們邊境以及我們的資訊系統面攔查了還是佔了一定的比例因為這樣子的其實都不會特別被揭露出來但不可否認就是大部分的比例是民眾檢舉或者是競爭對手的檢舉這個幾乎是佔相當大的比例吧這個的確是有一定的比例那我想是說重點是不管是怎麼樣就是說在就是說\n\n11:23.620 --> 11:50.111\n你們後續那個放行之後進來之後那放行之後有沒有查驗或者是出事了之後再去做這個亡羊補牢的時候調查我們其實在前端的攔截以外後市場的稽查每一年我們都有特定的專案性的稽查是常態性的因為現在是有這個除了對於合法廠商不定期稽查那非法的地下廠商你們其實根本是\n\n11:51.824 --> 12:20.725\n也很難說積極的去主動調查就這個部分跟委員報告一下我們針對的所謂的登記跟實際上營業的部分我們在跨部會我們會積極的更把現在遇到的一些需要更能夠勾結更完整的所以剛才提到的比如說營業相次跟一些登記的相次跟實際上營業上面沒辦法吻合的4.2萬家我們就會交衛生局積極的去查\n\n12:21.306 --> 12:36.524\n就是市要署的人力物力是有限啦就是說當然我們盡量去滿足這個人力上的需求還有這個經費上的需求但是我們的責任是要把這些經費跟人力全部把它規劃好\n\n12:37.885 --> 13:04.710\n那我们国内很多专业的团体跟非政府组织那一起也可以一起来为国家的食品食安来把关所以很多的公权力我们也可以委托来使用那特别是样品的取得化验都可以跟外界来做结合那这样还有进口食材这个流布厂商的必要管理我们很重要我现在要讲就是说建立电子化的这个资料库我想是要做这个呃\n\n13:06.170 --> 13:19.113\n很重要的建议这个资料库的建议是对我们未来的食安管理是很重要的所以这个部分希望你们能够多加油是的谢谢谢谢委员\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.247,"end":10.841,"text":"好謝謝主席我們先請衛福部長先休息一下然後那個食藥署署長請食藥署江署長委員好"},{"start":16.798,"end":36.928,"text":"署長好 最近在屏東有查獲一件豬腸它使用工業用雙氧水漂白的食安事件我首先要請教署長 在這件事情之後這件事情之所以被發現是請教你們是由民眾檢舉還是說由你們南區主動稽查發現的這個是民眾檢舉在6月份的時候"},{"start":40.489,"end":66.739,"text":"好 謝謝那署長您是這個醫學背景的專家應該要很清楚就是說這個實案的問題就是說我們越早發現就可以越早阻斷那阻斷民眾去使用就可以避免後續很多疾病的發生那醫生也就不用耗費心力去治療也可以避免耗費很多的健保資源所以署長的職責是相當重要的"},{"start":68.139,"end":83.328,"text":"這次的事件本市有注意到你們在不到一周的時間就調查就查了查清楚這個問題豬場的流布那回收下架了未使用的豬場同時呢也給予這些不肖業者"},{"start":85.41,"end":113.084,"text":"相当重的这个重罚那本席基本上要肯定食药署这一次的这个危机处理的能力但是呢还是有部分的这个问题猪肠被民众使用了所以我想这件事我们还是有可以有检讨的空间我另外要请教就是说这批违法猪肠到底还有就是有多少是被民众吃下肚的"},{"start":114.079,"end":131.387,"text":"後來我們精算包括我們在風存的部分目前是1264604公斤的風存到最末梢的所謂的肉店裡面購買我們在現場查扣其實145公斤"},{"start":132.828,"end":151.754,"text":"整體我們加起來真的在這個過程中讓國人因為這樣子進入市場而食用有784公斤那這個部分我們在部長特別指示之下我們對於整個流程我們也做很多行政上目前持續在檢討當中所以就是你們的精算是784"},{"start":153.735,"end":166.83,"text":"784公斤流入市面被民眾吃下肚是的那在這批百威在這批之前就是他們還進了多少豬大腸你們有調查嗎"},{"start":168.79,"end":184.3,"text":"這邊跟委員進一步說明因為這家廠商他完全連登記都沒有登記所以是第一個所以他被罰了300萬的未登記那也沒有GHP所以在這種前提之下我們的確不是能夠確確的掌握之前的一個完全的狀況"},{"start":185.26,"end":204.631,"text":"但是我們一起動了解他從6月18號我們看到他的所謂進出的貨單裡面把所有的把他調出來之後得到的剛才的一張說明的簡單的數字在這個之前我是說在這一批之前你們是調不到數據沒有辦法掌握"},{"start":206.567,"end":226.263,"text":"那這部分跟委員報告檢方在部分已經有查扣相關的資訊那我們也有去跟檢方去協調能不能取得更前部分的一些資料我想這個部分是很重要的所以你們有主動跟檢方去要他之前的這個進口的這個數量"},{"start":229.085,"end":246.467,"text":"對 目前我們都有提出了好 那這樣子表示你們有意識到這個問題那所以後續呢也麻煩食藥署持續的追蹤把這個就是百威之前所進的這個豬大腸那個數量要麻煩你們還是要估算一下"},{"start":247.368,"end":265.156,"text":"因為畢竟我想這個已經有不良前科那過去他們這一家在應該基本上都是用同樣的方式用雙氧水工業用雙氧水去洗這個豬大腸的這個量你們後續在有掌握到資訊的時候再麻煩跟我們辦公室說一下"},{"start":268.597,"end":290.048,"text":"基本上本土新鮮的豬腸應該是不需要再使用雙氧水去漂白因為新鮮的豬腸基本上它就白得還滿漂亮的事件過後高雄市政府調查630家及屏東縣政府調查了84家業者總共700多家全數都合格"},{"start":290.768,"end":310.14,"text":"那有需要用雙氧水清洗賣相差的應該是國外進口來的這個部分是需要經過關務署來放行那請教一下署長就是食藥署對於國外進口的食材有沒有掌握進口的品項數量跟進口商的資料"},{"start":311.341,"end":339.858,"text":"這部分跟委員進一步說明因為關務署進來我們在邊境的時候事實上我們用所謂的邊境的BPI protection保護的人工智慧的系統裡面所以關務署的資料跟我們這邊進來的資料在邊境裡面是非常清楚的所有的相關的數字對 因為主要是我這樣問主要還是關心就是說如果說你們這些都可以掌握的話那應該就是可以掌握百威之前他們所有進口的數量"},{"start":341.007,"end":363.927,"text":"就是說這一次的案件裡面就我們了解是在所謂屠宰場旁邊那個貨櫃屋裡面其實是相對直接是在場內的我們目前的資訊掌握好像並沒有是場外的或者進口進來的出廠在這邊做進一步的加工我想這個問題你們有必要你們有必要可以再去了解一下是的 一定會的"},{"start":364.668,"end":384.539,"text":"那我再請教就是說你們各區北中南管理中心對於這個轄區的食品業者有沒有登記列管這個都是有在機械登記的列管這家是非常特殊的他連登記都沒有登記重點是就是說那有登記列管這些然後登記之後你們是如何管理怎麼管啊有列管啊你們怎麼管"},{"start":391.892,"end":415.04,"text":"我們其實每一家廠商它必須要符合第一個GHP的管理那對於食品的廠不同的廠的一個規模大小它必須要做成品 半成品進來之後完全它的批次所謂的電子發票跟電子登錄目前剛才部長也有進一步說明都達到九成以上"},{"start":415.74,"end":440.409,"text":"那如果沒有去做登錄的我們其實按照三法的違法在48條的時候可以罰三萬到三百萬的一個經費目前我們持續會讓他的登錄能夠更完整電子發票的勾結能夠更明顯的完成好 那個經濟部登記的公司行號如果是做這個食品加工進口業 進口的業者你們食藥署有 就是"},{"start":441.625,"end":447.654,"text":"有沒有建立資料庫去了解就是說相關的營運銷貨跟環境管理啦"},{"start":449.266,"end":478.327,"text":"有吗是的有的我们登录的时候因为这家厂商营运销货跟环境管理因为厂商他们会预登记所以他预登记的跟我们的厂商之间会有差异所以我们七十几万家的食品厂里面我们今年度查起来有四万两千家其实是中间是有差异的所以我们目前直接就折成卫生局针对这四万两千家进一步去查查他的所谓的登记项目跟所谓的营业项目的部分能够达到一致"},{"start":478.527,"end":499.765,"text":"我想是這樣因為本席想要建議一下就是說在過去你們可以拿出去處理醬油業者的那種精神跟魄力去處理這些就是豬大腸的這個事件應該就可以立刻被解決因為這個是發生在署長來之前你們可以好好去了解一下"},{"start":500.546,"end":529.184,"text":"好的 谢谢委员用对地方那再从这一次的这个事件虽然你们有就是说立即的处理能力算是不错但是如果说你们可以在第一时间就掌握了这个就掌握就可以避免这个问题猪肠流出被使用这部分是需要靠平时的这个基本控那举例而言就是说进口的猪肠长途运送的这个过程当中容易变色产生腥味"},{"start":530.244,"end":550.058,"text":"部分的中盤商還有這個或者食品加工業者他們為了賣相好那本來就很容易去漂白嘛廠商他可以選擇合法的這個食品級的雙氧水那他也有可能使用的這個違法的工業級的雙氧水所以"},{"start":550.898,"end":570.272,"text":"需要不定期的不斷的去稽查那對於這個合法的這個廠商該有的稽查頻率需要你們考量就是有限的人力跟物力所以我相信就是說相較於這個藥品的管理這個食品的管理其實它是更加複雜的"},{"start":572.673,"end":582.98,"text":"目前想再請教署長就是說你們有沒有針對這個進口食材有這個積茶頻率的數據或者是說有積茶百分比的數據"},{"start":585.063,"end":601.409,"text":"我們對於進口的產品其實在邊境裡面就會進入於攔截所以這個攔截我們常態的是在5到10%如果對於它過去的違規的違法行為裡面一旦被查查之後我們現在剛才提到BPI會隨著它的"},{"start":603.83,"end":625.427,"text":"過去的歷史而調高他的風險最高是調到每一竹匹的茶茶5%到10%10%到50%甚至進一步到100%因為每一次的這個食安的事件很多啦就是我的理解我們看到常常就是說最多"},{"start":626.147,"end":654.378,"text":"就是說主要都有民眾檢舉嘛或者競爭對手的檢舉最多常遇到這樣子嘛那再來就是說等媒體爆料啦或者明帶質詢啦這個也不少那再來就是你們的主動調查大概不出這三大類那我們其實也會了解說這三類的比例大概是多少署長有沒有了解"},{"start":656.099,"end":682.58,"text":"其實在我們邊境以及我們的資訊系統面攔查了還是佔了一定的比例因為這樣子的其實都不會特別被揭露出來但不可否認就是大部分的比例是民眾檢舉或者是競爭對手的檢舉這個幾乎是佔相當大的比例吧這個的確是有一定的比例那我想是說重點是不管是怎麼樣就是說在就是說"},{"start":683.62,"end":710.111,"text":"你們後續那個放行之後進來之後那放行之後有沒有查驗或者是出事了之後再去做這個亡羊補牢的時候調查我們其實在前端的攔截以外後市場的稽查每一年我們都有特定的專案性的稽查是常態性的因為現在是有這個除了對於合法廠商不定期稽查那非法的地下廠商你們其實根本是"},{"start":711.824,"end":740.725,"text":"也很難說積極的去主動調查就這個部分跟委員報告一下我們針對的所謂的登記跟實際上營業的部分我們在跨部會我們會積極的更把現在遇到的一些需要更能夠勾結更完整的所以剛才提到的比如說營業相次跟一些登記的相次跟實際上營業上面沒辦法吻合的4.2萬家我們就會交衛生局積極的去查"},{"start":741.306,"end":756.524,"text":"就是市要署的人力物力是有限啦就是說當然我們盡量去滿足這個人力上的需求還有這個經費上的需求但是我們的責任是要把這些經費跟人力全部把它規劃好"},{"start":757.885,"end":784.71,"text":"那我们国内很多专业的团体跟非政府组织那一起也可以一起来为国家的食品食安来把关所以很多的公权力我们也可以委托来使用那特别是样品的取得化验都可以跟外界来做结合那这样还有进口食材这个流布厂商的必要管理我们很重要我现在要讲就是说建立电子化的这个资料库我想是要做这个呃"},{"start":786.17,"end":799.113,"text":"很重要的建议这个资料库的建议是对我们未来的食安管理是很重要的所以这个部分希望你们能够多加油是的 谢谢谢谢委员"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":786,"blocks":[["陳委員瑩：（11時54分）謝謝主席，我們請衛福部部長先休息一下，請食藥署署長。"],["主席：請食藥署姜署長。"],["姜署長至剛：委員好。"],["陳委員瑩：署長好。最近在屏東有查獲一件豬腸使用工業用雙氧水漂白的食安事件，我首先要請教署長，這件事情之所以被發現，是由民眾檢舉還是由你們南區主動稽查發現的？"],["姜署長至剛：這個是民眾檢舉，在6月份的時候。"],["陳委員瑩：好，謝謝。署長，您是有醫學背景的專家，應該要很清楚，食安問題是越早發現就可以越早阻斷；而阻斷民眾食用就可以避免後續很多疾病的發生，醫師也就不用耗費心力去治療，也可以避免耗費很多的健保資源，所以署長的職責是相當重要的。針對這次的事件，本席有注意到你們在不到一週的時間就調查清楚豬腸的流布，回收、下架了未使用的豬腸，同時也給予這些不肖業者相當重的重罰。本席基本上要肯定食藥署這一次的危機處理能力，但還是有部分的豬腸被民眾食用了，所以我想這件事你們還是有可以檢討的空間。我另外要請教，這批違法豬腸到底有多少是被民眾吃下肚？"],["姜署長至剛：報告委員，後來我們精算，包括我們封存的部分，目前是1萬2,604公斤封存，到最末梢所謂的肉店裡面購買，我們現場查扣的其實是145公斤。整體加起來，真的在這個過程中，讓國人因為這樣子進入市場而食用的有784公斤。這個部分在部長的特別指示之下，我們目前對於整個流程也做很多行政上的持續檢討。"],["陳委員瑩：你們精算是……"],["姜署長至剛：784公斤。"],["陳委員瑩：784公斤流入市面被民眾吃下肚？"],["姜署長至剛：是的。"],["陳委員瑩：百威在這批之前，他們還進了多少豬大腸？你們有調查嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：跟委員進一步說明，因為這家廠商完全連登記都沒有登記，這是第一個，所以它被罰了300萬的未登記，也沒有GHP，因此在這種前提之下，我們的確不是能夠確切地掌握之前的完全狀況，但是我們一啟動了解，它從6月18號，我們看到進出貨單裡面，把所有的調出來之後，得到剛才所說明的簡單數字。"],["陳委員瑩：在這一批之前，你們是調不到數據，也沒有辦法掌握它進口了多少豬大腸？"],["姜署長至剛：這部分跟委員報告，檢方已經有查扣相關的資訊，我們也有去跟檢方協調，看能不能取得更前部分的一些資料。"],["陳委員瑩：我想這個部分是很重要的，所以你們有主動跟檢方去要它之前的進口數量？"],["姜署長至剛：對，目前我們都有提出了。"],["陳委員瑩：這樣子表示你們有意識到這個問題，後續也麻煩食藥署持續追蹤，百威之前所進的豬大腸數量，麻煩你們還是要估算一下，畢竟已經有不良前科。過去這一家應該基本上都是用同樣的方式，用工業用雙氧水去洗豬大腸，這個數量在你們後續有掌握到資訊的時候再麻煩跟我們辦公室說一下。"],["姜署長至剛：好的。"],["陳委員瑩：基本上，本土新鮮的豬腸應該是不需要再使用雙氧水去漂白，因為新鮮的豬腸就白得還蠻漂亮的。在這事件過後，高雄市政府調查630家、屏東縣政府調查84家業者，總共七百多家全數都合格！所以需要用雙氧水清洗，賣相差的應該是國外進口來的，這個部分是需要經過關務署放行。請教一下署長，食藥署對於國外進口的食材，有沒有掌握進口的品項、數量跟進口商的資料？"],["姜署長至剛：這部分跟委員進一步說明。因為關務署在邊境的時候，事實上我們用所謂邊境BPI保護的人工智慧系統，所以關務署的資料跟我們這邊進來的資料，在邊境裡面所有的相關數字是非常清楚的。"],["陳委員瑩：我會這樣問，主要還是關心，如果你們這些都可以掌握的話，應該就可以掌握百威之前所有進口的數量。"],["姜署長至剛：這一次的案件裡面，就我們了解是在所謂屠宰場旁邊的貨櫃屋裡面處理，其實相對來說是直接在廠內的，我們目前掌握的資訊好像並沒有是廠外的或者進口進來的豬腸在這邊做進一步的加工，目前是這樣。我們會進一步去了解。"],["陳委員瑩：我想這個問題你們有必要再去了解一下。"],["姜署長至剛：是，一定會的。"],["陳委員瑩：我再請教，你們各區北、中、南管理中心，對於轄區的食品業者有沒有登記、列管？"],["姜署長至剛：這個都是有登記、列管。"],["陳委員瑩：有，但重點是……"],["姜署長至剛：這家非常特殊，他連登記都沒有登記。"],["陳委員瑩：重點是有登記列管的這些廠家，登記之後，你們是如何管理？有列管，那你們怎麼管？"],["姜署長至剛：每一家廠商，第一個，他必須要符合GHP的管理，對於不同食品廠的規模大小，他必須要在成品、半成品進來之後，要完成它的批次，所謂的電子發票跟電子登錄，剛才部長也有進一步說明，這都達到九成以上。","如果沒有去做登錄的，我們按照食安法的規定，違反第四十八條可以罰3萬到300萬的罰鍰，我們會持續讓他的登錄能夠更完整，電子發票的勾稽能夠更明顯完成。"],["陳委員瑩：好。經濟部登記的公司行號，如果是做食品加工進口業的業者，你們食藥署有沒有建立資料庫去了解相關的營運、銷貨跟環境管理？有嗎？"],["姜署長至剛：有的，我們登錄的時候，因為這些廠商……"],["陳委員瑩：營運、銷貨跟環境管理。"],["姜署長至剛：因為廠商他們會預登記，所以他預登記的跟我們掌握的廠商數量之間就會有差異。所以七十幾萬家的食品廠裡面，我們今年度查起來有4萬2,000家，其實中間是有差異的，所以我們目前直接就責成衛生局，針對這4萬2,000家進一步去查察他的登記項目跟營業項目的部分能夠達到一致。"],["陳委員瑩：本席想要建議一下，你們可以拿出過去處理醬油業者的那種精神跟魄力去處理豬大腸的事件，應該就可以立刻被解決。因為這個是發生在署長來之前，你們可以好好去了解一下。"],["姜署長至剛：好的，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員瑩：用對地方。從這次的事件，雖然你們立即處理能力算是不錯，但是如果你們可以在第一時間就掌握好，就可以避免問題豬腸流出被使用，這部分是需要靠平時的基本功。","舉例而言，進口的豬腸在長途運送的過程中容易變色、產生腥味，部分的中盤商或者食品加工業者，他們為了賣相好，本來就很容易去漂白。廠商可以選擇合法食品級的雙氧水，那他也有可能使用違法工業級的雙氧水，所以需要不定期、不斷地去稽查。對於合法的廠商該有的稽查頻率，在有限的人力跟物力下，這都需要你們去考量，所以我相信，相較於藥品的管理，在食品的管理上其實是更加複雜的。","想再請教署長，你們目前有沒有針對進口食材的稽查頻率數據，或者稽查百分比的數據？"],["姜署長至剛：我們對於進口產品在邊境裡面就會進行攔截，攔截的頻率我們常態是5%到10%。如果他過去有違規、違法行為，一旦被查察之後，我們剛才提到BPI，會隨著他過去的歷史而調高他的風險，最高是調到每一個都逐批查察。"],["陳委員瑩：我剛剛聽到是5%到10%……"],["姜署長至剛：5%到10%、10%到50%，甚至進一步到100%。"],["陳委員瑩：因為食安的事件很多，就我的理解上，我們看到常常都是民眾檢舉或者競爭對手檢舉，最常遇到這樣。再來就是媒體爆料，或者民代質詢，這個也不少。再來就是你們的主動調查，大概都不出這三大類。我們其實也會想了解這三類的比例大概是多少，署長有沒有了解？"],["姜署長至剛：其實在我們邊境以及我們的資訊系統裡面，攔查還是占了一定的比例，因為這樣的數據都不會特別被揭露出來。"],["陳委員瑩：但不可否認的是大部分的比例是民眾檢舉或者是競爭對手的檢舉，這占相當大的比例吧？"],["姜署長至剛：這個的確是有一定的比例。"],["陳委員瑩：好，不管是怎麼樣，重點是在放行進來之後，有沒有查驗？或者是出事了之後，再去做亡羊補牢的事後調查？"],["姜署長至剛：我們其實除了前端的攔截以外，後市場的稽查，每一年我們都有特定的專案性稽查，是常態性的。"],["陳委員瑩：現在除了對於合法廠商進行不定期稽查，那非法的地下廠商，你們很難說是積極去主動調查。"],["姜署長至剛：就這個部分跟委員報告一下，我們針對所謂的登記，跟實際上營業的部分，在跨部會我們會更積極的把現在遇到一些需要勾稽更完整的……剛才提到的，登記項次跟實際上營業上面沒辦法吻合的4.2萬家，我們就會就交衛生局積極去查察。"],["陳委員瑩：我想是這樣，食藥署的人力、物力有限啦，當然我們儘量去滿足人力上的需求，還有經費上的需求，但是我們的責任是要把這些經費跟人力全部把它規劃好。我們國內有很多專業的團體跟非政府組織，也可以一起來為國家的食安來把關，所以很多的公權力我們也可以委託這些單位，特別是樣品的取得、化驗都可以跟外界來做結合，還有進口食材流布及廠商的必要管理。","我現在要講的很重要，就是建立電子化的資料庫，我要做這個很重要的建議！資料庫的建立對我們未來食安管理是很重要的，所以這個部分希望你們能夠多加油。"],["姜署長至剛：是的，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員瑩：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳瑩委員的發言，也謝謝署長的回答。","下一位請邱志偉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":260,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","邱志偉","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","廖偉翔","劉建國","葉元之","楊曜"],"page_start":189,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長及行政院食品安全辦公室就「重大食安事件處理之檢討與食安稽核人力不足\n問題」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00004"}}}