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00:00:45,171\n我直接這樣子問好了就是我們今年大概有到9月底有47個7項的藥品包括學名藥跟針劑將提供供應請問一下這個到底跟藥價有沒有關係\n\n3\n00:00:47,129 --> 00:01:14,888\n根委員報告這個47項裡面大概屬於原廠要的是24個但是這個原廠都已經有學民要出來所以他們多數是考慮到他們的市場定位像那個什麼百優姐千優姐他根本就是不做了因為跟學民要太多了他不要再跟人家競爭了他就轉變他的這個商業的策略去發展他的專利要為主\n\n4\n00:01:17,709 --> 00:01:35,378\n這全部沒有一樣是專利期內的藥不供應都是過了專利期同時有學名藥所以其實跟藥價是沒有關係的藥價我們都可以來提高所以像4月到現在我們也合訂了200多項的藥品給他提高藥價\n\n5\n00:01:36,738 --> 00:02:02,659\n如果真的是因為成本啊物料的價格的影響也可以來提其實有學名藥出來以後的延長藥其實它的價格本來也就跟學名藥差不多對這個全世界都是應該是這樣只是說我們要去確保這些學名藥的療效讓它相等在保障這個病人用藥的安全會不會引發缺藥的問題啊\n\n6\n00:02:05,841 --> 00:02:22,308\n會缺藥是這個病人拿不到藥叫做缺藥所以我們要處理的是要預警就不要你突然間斷藥了斷藥的時候病人他換藥也要有一定的時間去適應所以我們才會要求說這些要停止\n\n7\n00:02:22,888 --> 00:02:37,230\n提供應的一定要提早講提早講我們就有辦法來因應不論是開始做統一的控貨或者是輔導其他的業者增加產量因為有些有學名要可是他產線有限\n\n8\n00:02:38,351 --> 00:03:04,456\n它要一下子增加也要時間所以這些我們都有辦法因為只要提早預警我們後面就不會有缺藥的問題我們還是利用這個機會讓部長和署長講一下原廠藥跟學名藥因為大概這一次缺藥所以很多人對學名藥會有誤解我覺得這個部裡面跟署裡面應該要去加強宣導\n\n9\n00:03:07,352 --> 00:03:29,920\n原廠藥就是因為藥廠他負責研發所以研發的費用很貴所以給他5年的專利期不只喔專利期有時候很長20幾年都有可能看他專利期過了以後他大概就會公佈他的成分劑量跟劑型\n\n10\n00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:48,691\n那其他的藥廠就可以根據這三項去形塑出來它可能藥的包裝不一樣然後形塑的過程會有差異可是通常來講藥效並沒有說一定就是原廠的比較好對不對\n\n11\n00:03:49,952 --> 00:04:12,036\n譬如說大家最接受的普拿疼他就是學民藥跟委員報告對很多人以為普拿疼是原廠藥不是他也是學民藥對所以我才想說藉這個機會是不是提醒一下部裡面跟署裡面就是盡可能讓國人知道避免恐慌大家都以為說原廠藥的療效比較好\n\n12\n00:04:17,657 --> 00:04:36,577\n其實不見得啦應該這麼講就是學名要問世問世的前提就是原廠要公佈了他的所有的配方所以理論上應該是沒有不必要造成這麼大的恐慌只要他的製程符合規則\n\n13\n00:04:37,178 --> 00:04:52,539\n像我們現在是PeaceGNP廠自成符合規範配方對了其實有的都還會做臨床試驗做BABE生物相等性這些所以那個可以確保這個要效是相當的基本上就是不一定\n\n14\n00:04:53,180 --> 00:05:16,651\n不一定完全一樣啦那每個病人接受的也不一樣啦可是我覺得我們有必要把這個觀念跟國人做個說明啦不要大家對於因為其實這個就是民意代表當久了你大概就會遇到很多問題啦其實我們很常被問這個問題啦就是說\n\n15\n00:05:20,473 --> 00:05:46,234\n為什麼醫學中心的藥好像就比澎湖好那我通常都會跟他說不會啦就是一般來講不管是原廠學民他的療效應該都是跟委員補充說川普總統美國川普總統提告提到說要增加那個進口的藥的藥價的那個不是關稅要增加他也是針對所謂的原廠藥\n\n16\n00:05:47,635 --> 00:06:01,064\n他也是要扶植他自己國內的學民藥所以他只針對原廠藥去提高那個關稅所以道理是一樣的就是原廠藥應該價格要下降那個有學民藥出來了不應該還是在專利期這麼高對那他\n\n17\n00:06:05,266 --> 00:06:20,779\n有學名要出來他還可以這麼高可能是很多觀念造成的要不然有相同療效的東西出來理論上他不應該這樣子部長既然直接講到川普那我也直接問一下就是說其實藥品\n\n18\n00:06:22,856 --> 00:06:41,502\n是比戰略物資更重要因為它本身也是戰略物資而且它是不管軍民都必須要用的那我們國內川普他是用關稅來保障學民藥的製作嘛那我們國內有沒有相關的\n\n19\n00:06:45,223 --> 00:07:07,330\n我們的做法上是因為這個所有的藥品健保是最大的買方所以在價格上我們對於國產的學民藥那麼在合價上面如果他是專利期剛過前幾個來就鼓勵趕快有學民藥在台灣製造的我們前兩張我們給的價格跟他跟原廠藥一樣\n\n20\n00:07:08,950 --> 00:07:28,389\n我們原廠藥一旦過了專利期大概有五年的時間慢慢調藥價但是如果在這個五年時間有台灣的學名藥跟他一樣我們就給他一樣的價格來鼓勵那第二個呢就是如果你這個是台灣的學名藥同時有做臨床試驗來證明他的療效相等\n\n21\n00:07:29,724 --> 00:07:56,352\n本來不一定要但是你做了這個事情我們也給你加價10%價格比較高那另外如果你這個這一組的藥裡面學名藥的品項低於3個以下的我們那一年也不給你調藥價不砍藥價來鼓勵大家來供藥讓它韌性可以好一點那甚至呢還可以來提彈性提高它的藥價所以當然我們也做了這一些\n\n22\n00:07:58,053 --> 00:08:20,770\n甚至於我的看法啦就是說扶植國內的廠商其實台灣有的時候就是大家也怕圖利啦要不然其實國內的藥品的相關廠商其實應該要給必要的資源就給啦\n\n23\n00:08:22,191 --> 00:08:36,091\n因為這個國內不自己扶植自己的藥廠然後萬一有就是等於你的脖子被其他的國家掐住這個對於台灣\n\n24\n00:08:38,154 --> 00:09:07,269\n跟委員報我們最多的時候齁在我們實施PeaceGMP前大概國內的藥廠大概400多家現在呢實施PeaceGMP已經到100多家了所以留下來的這個都是有品質的製藥廠所以這個進國人給予多方面的協助啦好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝委員你要跟我問一下國安辦主任嗎國安辦主任麻煩一下\n\n25\n00:09:07,850 --> 00:09:19,894\n主任好主任我大概問一下因為時間的關係我還是想要因為我們設立食安辦公室\n\n26\n00:09:27,475 --> 00:09:53,767\n本身就表示在宣示政府對於人民的食品安全有多重視那看起來就是這一次整個從先不要講前端就從你們知情到稽查到存封的速度都太慢了這個第一點第二點就是我問一個問題就是說你們\n\n27\n00:09:58,769 --> 00:10:26,801\n以後要怎麼防止非關注化學物質進入食品食品廠要要要目前有沒有什麼想法好應該這樣講講大方向就好了假如已經列入關注化學物質都會納管他不是不是不是對現在就是還沒有納入關注化學物質對對可是他就是明明不應該在食品廠的東西對對對\n\n28\n00:10:28,570 --> 00:10:45,042\n所以有兩個方法我們會去檢討說這一些的項目適不適合納進去因為最早我們的顧慮就是說有一些這一些的化學品是有當成10天在用的那會讓\n\n29\n00:10:46,463 --> 00:11:08,103\n民眾會覺得說那怎麼會這些是毒化物然後是可以值得會誤會所以我們未來會用關注化學物質去溝通假如它是沒有定在關注化學物質裡面它運作的紀錄會不夠我們就要靠地形的集合\n\n30\n00:11:09,024 --> 00:11:24,044\n去看它進來的這一些非實天的化學品的管理它的庫存它的使用紀錄我們去強化我們在實安叫做三專管理專人專櫃跟專測它每領一瓶出來使用\n\n31\n00:11:24,825 --> 00:11:47,351\n多少應該都要寫記錄那我們就要強化這一些管理他買進來的非實天的化學品所有都應該去列管那用這樣的一個方法強化管理因為他如果對不肖的黑心的業者他硬要做壞事不讓我們查那我們就\n\n32\n00:11:48,535 --> 00:12:11,081\n得要靠其他的方法去讓它浮出來從蘇丹紅到這一次的事件都是非關注化學的物質假如說每個業者都很有良心也不需要設立食安辦所以我因為時間的關係我今天不大想已經沒有辦法跟你\n\n33\n00:12:12,161 --> 00:12:32,498\n溝通很多啦不過我覺得我去找委員我覺得現在沒有納入非關注的部分你們要怎麼去查查這個你們要好好的想一想然後人力不足的部分我是覺得\n\n34\n00:12:34,159 --> 00:12:44,261\n食藥署那邊好像已經有增加24個名額也還沒有用要進出補足啦好謝謝主任謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10641\t22526\t謝謝主席 主席請一下部長和署長還有署長兩位好 兩個人同樣專業就不知道要問哪一個這兩個人很專業\n26645\t45171\t我直接這樣子問好了就是我們今年大概有到9月底有47個7項的藥品包括學名藥跟針劑將提供供應請問一下這個到底跟藥價有沒有關係\n47129\t74888\t根委員報告這個47項裡面大概屬於原廠要的是24個但是這個原廠都已經有學民要出來所以他們多數是考慮到他們的市場定位像那個什麼百優姐千優姐他根本就是不做了因為跟學民要太多了他不要再跟人家競爭了他就轉變他的這個商業的策略去發展他的專利要為主\n77709\t95378\t這全部沒有一樣是專利期內的藥不供應都是過了專利期同時有學名藥所以其實跟藥價是沒有關係的藥價我們都可以來提高所以像4月到現在我們也合訂了200多項的藥品給他提高藥價\n96738\t122659\t如果真的是因為成本啊物料的價格的影響也可以來提其實有學名藥出來以後的延長藥其實它的價格本來也就跟學名藥差不多對 這個全世界都是應該是這樣只是說我們要去確保這些學名藥的療效讓它相等在保障這個病人用藥的安全會不會引發缺藥的問題啊\n125841\t142308\t會缺藥是這個病人拿不到藥叫做缺藥所以我們要處理的是要預警就不要你突然間斷藥了斷藥的時候病人他換藥也要有一定的時間去適應所以我們才會要求說這些要停止\n142888\t157230\t提供應的一定要提早講提早講我們就有辦法來因應不論是開始做統一的控貨或者是輔導其他的業者增加產量因為有些有學名要可是他產線有限\n158351\t184456\t它要一下子增加也要時間所以這些我們都有辦法因為只要提早預警我們後面就不會有缺藥的問題我們還是利用這個機會讓部長和署長講一下原廠藥跟學名藥因為大概這一次缺藥所以很多人對學名藥會有誤解我覺得這個部裡面跟署裡面應該要去加強宣導\n187352\t209920\t原廠藥就是因為藥廠他負責研發所以研發的費用很貴所以給他5年的專利期不只喔專利期有時候很長 20幾年都有可能看他專利期過了以後他大概就會公佈他的成分 劑量跟劑型\n210900\t228691\t那其他的藥廠就可以根據這三項去形塑出來它可能藥的包裝不一樣然後形塑的過程會有差異可是通常來講藥效並沒有說一定就是原廠的比較好對不對\n229952\t252036\t譬如說大家最接受的普拿疼他就是學民藥跟委員報告 對很多人以為普拿疼是原廠藥不是 他也是學民藥對 所以我才想說藉這個機會是不是提醒一下部裡面跟署裡面就是盡可能讓國人知道避免恐慌大家都以為說原廠藥的療效比較好\n257657\t276577\t其實不見得啦應該這麼講就是學名要問世問世的前提就是原廠要公佈了他的所有的配方所以理論上應該是沒有不必要造成這麼大的恐慌只要他的製程符合規則\n277178\t292539\t像我們現在是Peace GNP廠自成符合規範配方對了其實有的都還會做臨床試驗做BABE生物相等性這些所以那個可以確保這個要效是相當的基本上就是不一定\n293180\t316651\t不一定完全一樣啦那每個病人接受的也不一樣啦可是我覺得我們有必要把這個觀念跟國人做個說明啦不要大家對於因為其實這個就是民意代表當久了你大概就會遇到很多問題啦其實我們很常被問這個問題啦就是說\n320473\t346234\t為什麼醫學中心的藥好像就比澎湖好那我通常都會跟他說不會啦就是一般來講不管是原廠 學民他的療效應該都是跟委員補充說川普總統美國川普總統提告提到說要增加那個進口的藥的藥價的那個不是 關稅要增加他也是針對所謂的原廠藥\n347635\t361064\t他也是要扶植他自己國內的學民藥所以他只針對原廠藥去提高那個關稅所以道理是一樣的就是原廠藥應該價格要下降那個有學民藥出來了不應該還是在專利期這麼高對 那他\n365266\t380779\t有學名要出來他還可以這麼高可能是很多觀念造成的要不然有相同療效的東西出來理論上他不應該這樣子部長既然直接講到川普那我也直接問一下就是說其實藥品\n382856\t401502\t是比戰略物資更重要因為它本身也是戰略物資而且它是不管軍民都必須要用的那我們國內川普他是用關稅來保障學民藥的製作嘛那我們國內有沒有相關的\n405223\t427330\t我們的做法上是因為這個所有的藥品健保是最大的買方所以在價格上我們對於國產的學民藥那麼在合價上面如果他是專利期剛過前幾個來就鼓勵趕快有學民藥在台灣製造的我們前兩張我們給的價格跟他跟原廠藥一樣\n428950\t448389\t我們原廠藥一旦過了專利期大概有五年的時間慢慢調藥價但是如果在這個五年時間有台灣的學名藥跟他一樣我們就給他一樣的價格來鼓勵那第二個呢就是如果你這個是台灣的學名藥同時有做臨床試驗來證明他的療效相等\n449724\t476352\t本來不一定要 但是你做了這個事情我們也給你加價10%價格比較高那另外如果你這個這一組的藥裡面 學名藥的品項低於3個以下的我們那一年也不給你調藥價不砍藥價來鼓勵大家來供藥讓它韌性可以好一點那甚至呢還可以來提彈性提高它的藥價所以當然我們也做了這一些\n478053\t500770\t甚至於我的看法啦就是說扶植國內的廠商其實台灣有的時候就是大家也怕圖利啦要不然其實國內的藥品的相關廠商其實應該要給必要的資源就給啦\n502191\t516091\t因為這個國內不自己扶植自己的藥廠然後萬一有就是等於你的脖子被其他的國家掐住這個對於台灣\n518154\t547269\t跟委員報我們最多的時候齁在我們實施Peace GMP前大概國內的藥廠大概400多家現在呢實施Peace GMP已經到100多家了所以留下來的這個都是有品質的製藥廠所以這個進國人給予多方面的協助啦好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝委員你要跟我問一下國安辦主任嗎國安辦主任麻煩一下\n547850\t559894\t主任好主任我大概問一下因為時間的關係我還是想要因為我們設立食安辦公室\n567475\t593767\t本身就表示在宣示政府對於人民的食品安全有多重視那看起來就是這一次整個從先不要講前端就從你們知情到稽查到存封的速度都太慢了這個第一點第二點就是我問一個問題就是說你們\n598769\t626801\t以後要怎麼防止非關注化學物質進入食品 食品廠要 要 要目前有沒有什麼想法好 應該這樣講 講大方向就好了假如已經列入關注化學物質都會納管他不是 不是 不是對 現在就是還沒有納入關注化學物質 對 對可是他就是明明不應該在食品廠的東西 對 對 對\n628570\t645042\t所以有兩個方法我們會去檢討說這一些的項目適不適合納進去因為最早我們的顧慮就是說有一些這一些的化學品是有當成10天在用的那會讓\n646463\t668103\t民眾會覺得說那怎麼會這些是毒化物然後是可以值得會誤會所以我們未來會用關注化學物質去溝通假如它是沒有定在關注化學物質裡面它運作的紀錄會不夠我們就要靠地形的集合\n669024\t684044\t去看它進來的這一些非實天的化學品的管理它的庫存 它的使用紀錄我們去強化我們在實安叫做三專管理專人 專櫃跟專測它每領一瓶出來使用\n684825\t707351\t多少應該都要寫記錄那我們就要強化這一些管理他買進來的非實天的化學品所有都應該去列管那用這樣的一個方法強化管理因為他如果對不肖的黑心的業者他硬要做壞事不讓我們查那我們就\n708535\t731081\t得要靠其他的方法去讓它浮出來從蘇丹紅到這一次的事件都是非關注化學的物質假如說每個業者都很有良心也不需要設立食安辦所以我因為時間的關係我今天不大想已經沒有辦法跟你\n732161\t752498\t溝通很多啦不過我覺得我去找委員我覺得現在沒有納入非關注的部分你們要怎麼去查查這個你們要好好的想一想然後人力不足的部分我是覺得\n754159\t764261\t食藥署那邊好像已經有增加24個名額也還沒有用要進出補足啦好 謝謝主任 謝謝主席\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席請一下部長和署長還有署長兩位好 兩個人同樣專業就不知道要問哪一個這兩個人很專業\n我直接這樣子問好了就是我們今年大概有到9月底有47個7項的藥品包括學名藥跟針劑將提供供應請問一下這個到底跟藥價有沒有關係\n根委員報告這個47項裡面大概屬於原廠要的是24個但是這個原廠都已經有學民要出來所以他們多數是考慮到他們的市場定位像那個什麼百優姐千優姐他根本就是不做了因為跟學民要太多了他不要再跟人家競爭了他就轉變他的這個商業的策略去發展他的專利要為主\n這全部沒有一樣是專利期內的藥不供應都是過了專利期同時有學名藥所以其實跟藥價是沒有關係的藥價我們都可以來提高所以像4月到現在我們也合訂了200多項的藥品給他提高藥價\n如果真的是因為成本啊物料的價格的影響也可以來提其實有學名藥出來以後的延長藥其實它的價格本來也就跟學名藥差不多對 這個全世界都是應該是這樣只是說我們要去確保這些學名藥的療效讓它相等在保障這個病人用藥的安全會不會引發缺藥的問題啊\n會缺藥是這個病人拿不到藥叫做缺藥所以我們要處理的是要預警就不要你突然間斷藥了斷藥的時候病人他換藥也要有一定的時間去適應所以我們才會要求說這些要停止\n提供應的一定要提早講提早講我們就有辦法來因應不論是開始做統一的控貨或者是輔導其他的業者增加產量因為有些有學名要可是他產線有限\n它要一下子增加也要時間所以這些我們都有辦法因為只要提早預警我們後面就不會有缺藥的問題我們還是利用這個機會讓部長和署長講一下原廠藥跟學名藥因為大概這一次缺藥所以很多人對學名藥會有誤解我覺得這個部裡面跟署裡面應該要去加強宣導\n原廠藥就是因為藥廠他負責研發所以研發的費用很貴所以給他5年的專利期不只喔專利期有時候很長 20幾年都有可能看他專利期過了以後他大概就會公佈他的成分 劑量跟劑型\n那其他的藥廠就可以根據這三項去形塑出來它可能藥的包裝不一樣然後形塑的過程會有差異可是通常來講藥效並沒有說一定就是原廠的比較好對不對\n譬如說大家最接受的普拿疼他就是學民藥跟委員報告 對很多人以為普拿疼是原廠藥不是 他也是學民藥對 所以我才想說藉這個機會是不是提醒一下部裡面跟署裡面就是盡可能讓國人知道避免恐慌大家都以為說原廠藥的療效比較好\n其實不見得啦應該這麼講就是學名要問世問世的前提就是原廠要公佈了他的所有的配方所以理論上應該是沒有不必要造成這麼大的恐慌只要他的製程符合規則\n像我們現在是Peace GNP廠自成符合規範配方對了其實有的都還會做臨床試驗做BABE生物相等性這些所以那個可以確保這個要效是相當的基本上就是不一定\n不一定完全一樣啦那每個病人接受的也不一樣啦可是我覺得我們有必要把這個觀念跟國人做個說明啦不要大家對於因為其實這個就是民意代表當久了你大概就會遇到很多問題啦其實我們很常被問這個問題啦就是說\n為什麼醫學中心的藥好像就比澎湖好那我通常都會跟他說不會啦就是一般來講不管是原廠 學民他的療效應該都是跟委員補充說川普總統美國川普總統提告提到說要增加那個進口的藥的藥價的那個不是 關稅要增加他也是針對所謂的原廠藥\n他也是要扶植他自己國內的學民藥所以他只針對原廠藥去提高那個關稅所以道理是一樣的就是原廠藥應該價格要下降那個有學民藥出來了不應該還是在專利期這麼高對 那他\n有學名要出來他還可以這麼高可能是很多觀念造成的要不然有相同療效的東西出來理論上他不應該這樣子部長既然直接講到川普那我也直接問一下就是說其實藥品\n是比戰略物資更重要因為它本身也是戰略物資而且它是不管軍民都必須要用的那我們國內川普他是用關稅來保障學民藥的製作嘛那我們國內有沒有相關的\n我們的做法上是因為這個所有的藥品健保是最大的買方所以在價格上我們對於國產的學民藥那麼在合價上面如果他是專利期剛過前幾個來就鼓勵趕快有學民藥在台灣製造的我們前兩張我們給的價格跟他跟原廠藥一樣\n我們原廠藥一旦過了專利期大概有五年的時間慢慢調藥價但是如果在這個五年時間有台灣的學名藥跟他一樣我們就給他一樣的價格來鼓勵那第二個呢就是如果你這個是台灣的學名藥同時有做臨床試驗來證明他的療效相等\n本來不一定要 但是你做了這個事情我們也給你加價10%價格比較高那另外如果你這個這一組的藥裡面 學名藥的品項低於3個以下的我們那一年也不給你調藥價不砍藥價來鼓勵大家來供藥讓它韌性可以好一點那甚至呢還可以來提彈性提高它的藥價所以當然我們也做了這一些\n甚至於我的看法啦就是說扶植國內的廠商其實台灣有的時候就是大家也怕圖利啦要不然其實國內的藥品的相關廠商其實應該要給必要的資源就給啦\n因為這個國內不自己扶植自己的藥廠然後萬一有就是等於你的脖子被其他的國家掐住這個對於台灣\n跟委員報我們最多的時候齁在我們實施Peace GMP前大概國內的藥廠大概400多家現在呢實施Peace GMP已經到100多家了所以留下來的這個都是有品質的製藥廠所以這個進國人給予多方面的協助啦好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝委員你要跟我問一下國安辦主任嗎國安辦主任麻煩一下\n主任好主任我大概問一下因為時間的關係我還是想要因為我們設立食安辦公室\n本身就表示在宣示政府對於人民的食品安全有多重視那看起來就是這一次整個從先不要講前端就從你們知情到稽查到存封的速度都太慢了這個第一點第二點就是我問一個問題就是說你們\n以後要怎麼防止非關注化學物質進入食品 食品廠要 要 要目前有沒有什麼想法好 應該這樣講 講大方向就好了假如已經列入關注化學物質都會納管他不是 不是 不是對 現在就是還沒有納入關注化學物質 對 對可是他就是明明不應該在食品廠的東西 對 對 對\n所以有兩個方法我們會去檢討說這一些的項目適不適合納進去因為最早我們的顧慮就是說有一些這一些的化學品是有當成10天在用的那會讓\n民眾會覺得說那怎麼會這些是毒化物然後是可以值得會誤會所以我們未來會用關注化學物質去溝通假如它是沒有定在關注化學物質裡面它運作的紀錄會不夠我們就要靠地形的集合\n去看它進來的這一些非實天的化學品的管理它的庫存 它的使用紀錄我們去強化我們在實安叫做三專管理專人 專櫃跟專測它每領一瓶出來使用\n多少應該都要寫記錄那我們就要強化這一些管理他買進來的非實天的化學品所有都應該去列管那用這樣的一個方法強化管理因為他如果對不肖的黑心的業者他硬要做壞事不讓我們查那我們就\n得要靠其他的方法去讓它浮出來從蘇丹紅到這一次的事件都是非關注化學的物質假如說每個業者都很有良心也不需要設立食安辦所以我因為時間的關係我今天不大想已經沒有辦法跟你\n溝通很多啦不過我覺得我去找委員我覺得現在沒有納入非關注的部分你們要怎麼去查查這個你們要好好的想一想然後人力不足的部分我是覺得\n食藥署那邊好像已經有增加24個名額也還沒有用要進出補足啦好 謝謝主任 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.641 --> 00:22.526\n謝謝主席主席請一下部長和署長還有署長兩位好兩個人同樣專業就不知道要問哪一個這兩個人很專業\n\n00:26.645 --> 00:45.171\n我直接這樣子問好了就是我們今年大概有到9月底有47個7項的藥品包括學名藥跟針劑將提供供應請問一下這個到底跟藥價有沒有關係\n\n00:47.129 --> 01:14.888\n根委員報告這個47項裡面大概屬於原廠要的是24個但是這個原廠都已經有學民要出來所以他們多數是考慮到他們的市場定位像那個什麼百優姐千優姐他根本就是不做了因為跟學民要太多了他不要再跟人家競爭了他就轉變他的這個商業的策略去發展他的專利要為主\n\n01:17.709 --> 01:35.378\n這全部沒有一樣是專利期內的藥不供應都是過了專利期同時有學名藥所以其實跟藥價是沒有關係的藥價我們都可以來提高所以像4月到現在我們也合訂了200多項的藥品給他提高藥價\n\n01:36.738 --> 02:02.659\n如果真的是因為成本啊物料的價格的影響也可以來提其實有學名藥出來以後的延長藥其實它的價格本來也就跟學名藥差不多對這個全世界都是應該是這樣只是說我們要去確保這些學名藥的療效讓它相等在保障這個病人用藥的安全會不會引發缺藥的問題啊\n\n02:05.841 --> 02:22.308\n會缺藥是這個病人拿不到藥叫做缺藥所以我們要處理的是要預警就不要你突然間斷藥了斷藥的時候病人他換藥也要有一定的時間去適應所以我們才會要求說這些要停止\n\n02:22.888 --> 02:37.230\n提供應的一定要提早講提早講我們就有辦法來因應不論是開始做統一的控貨或者是輔導其他的業者增加產量因為有些有學名要可是他產線有限\n\n02:38.351 --> 03:04.456\n它要一下子增加也要時間所以這些我們都有辦法因為只要提早預警我們後面就不會有缺藥的問題我們還是利用這個機會讓部長和署長講一下原廠藥跟學名藥因為大概這一次缺藥所以很多人對學名藥會有誤解我覺得這個部裡面跟署裡面應該要去加強宣導\n\n03:07.352 --> 03:29.920\n原廠藥就是因為藥廠他負責研發所以研發的費用很貴所以給他5年的專利期不只喔專利期有時候很長20幾年都有可能看他專利期過了以後他大概就會公佈他的成分劑量跟劑型\n\n03:30.900 --> 03:48.691\n那其他的藥廠就可以根據這三項去形塑出來它可能藥的包裝不一樣然後形塑的過程會有差異可是通常來講藥效並沒有說一定就是原廠的比較好對不對\n\n03:49.952 --> 04:12.036\n譬如說大家最接受的普拿疼他就是學民藥跟委員報告對很多人以為普拿疼是原廠藥不是他也是學民藥對所以我才想說藉這個機會是不是提醒一下部裡面跟署裡面就是盡可能讓國人知道避免恐慌大家都以為說原廠藥的療效比較好\n\n04:17.657 --> 04:36.577\n其實不見得啦應該這麼講就是學名要問世問世的前提就是原廠要公佈了他的所有的配方所以理論上應該是沒有不必要造成這麼大的恐慌只要他的製程符合規則\n\n04:37.178 --> 04:52.539\n像我們現在是PeaceGNP廠自成符合規範配方對了其實有的都還會做臨床試驗做BABE生物相等性這些所以那個可以確保這個要效是相當的基本上就是不一定\n\n04:53.180 --> 05:16.651\n不一定完全一樣啦那每個病人接受的也不一樣啦可是我覺得我們有必要把這個觀念跟國人做個說明啦不要大家對於因為其實這個就是民意代表當久了你大概就會遇到很多問題啦其實我們很常被問這個問題啦就是說\n\n05:20.473 --> 05:46.234\n為什麼醫學中心的藥好像就比澎湖好那我通常都會跟他說不會啦就是一般來講不管是原廠學民他的療效應該都是跟委員補充說川普總統美國川普總統提告提到說要增加那個進口的藥的藥價的那個不是關稅要增加他也是針對所謂的原廠藥\n\n05:47.635 --> 06:01.064\n他也是要扶植他自己國內的學民藥所以他只針對原廠藥去提高那個關稅所以道理是一樣的就是原廠藥應該價格要下降那個有學民藥出來了不應該還是在專利期這麼高對那他\n\n06:05.266 --> 06:20.779\n有學名要出來他還可以這麼高可能是很多觀念造成的要不然有相同療效的東西出來理論上他不應該這樣子部長既然直接講到川普那我也直接問一下就是說其實藥品\n\n06:22.856 --> 06:41.502\n是比戰略物資更重要因為它本身也是戰略物資而且它是不管軍民都必須要用的那我們國內川普他是用關稅來保障學民藥的製作嘛那我們國內有沒有相關的\n\n06:45.223 --> 07:07.330\n我們的做法上是因為這個所有的藥品健保是最大的買方所以在價格上我們對於國產的學民藥那麼在合價上面如果他是專利期剛過前幾個來就鼓勵趕快有學民藥在台灣製造的我們前兩張我們給的價格跟他跟原廠藥一樣\n\n07:08.950 --> 07:28.389\n我們原廠藥一旦過了專利期大概有五年的時間慢慢調藥價但是如果在這個五年時間有台灣的學名藥跟他一樣我們就給他一樣的價格來鼓勵那第二個呢就是如果你這個是台灣的學名藥同時有做臨床試驗來證明他的療效相等\n\n07:29.724 --> 07:56.352\n本來不一定要但是你做了這個事情我們也給你加價10%價格比較高那另外如果你這個這一組的藥裡面學名藥的品項低於3個以下的我們那一年也不給你調藥價不砍藥價來鼓勵大家來供藥讓它韌性可以好一點那甚至呢還可以來提彈性提高它的藥價所以當然我們也做了這一些\n\n07:58.053 --> 08:20.770\n甚至於我的看法啦就是說扶植國內的廠商其實台灣有的時候就是大家也怕圖利啦要不然其實國內的藥品的相關廠商其實應該要給必要的資源就給啦\n\n08:22.191 --> 08:36.091\n因為這個國內不自己扶植自己的藥廠然後萬一有就是等於你的脖子被其他的國家掐住這個對於台灣\n\n08:38.154 --> 09:07.269\n跟委員報我們最多的時候齁在我們實施PeaceGMP前大概國內的藥廠大概400多家現在呢實施PeaceGMP已經到100多家了所以留下來的這個都是有品質的製藥廠所以這個進國人給予多方面的協助啦好謝謝部長謝謝署長謝謝委員你要跟我問一下國安辦主任嗎國安辦主任麻煩一下\n\n09:07.850 --> 09:19.894\n主任好主任我大概問一下因為時間的關係我還是想要因為我們設立食安辦公室\n\n09:27.475 --> 09:53.767\n本身就表示在宣示政府對於人民的食品安全有多重視那看起來就是這一次整個從先不要講前端就從你們知情到稽查到存封的速度都太慢了這個第一點第二點就是我問一個問題就是說你們\n\n09:58.769 --> 10:26.801\n以後要怎麼防止非關注化學物質進入食品食品廠要要要目前有沒有什麼想法好應該這樣講講大方向就好了假如已經列入關注化學物質都會納管他不是不是不是對現在就是還沒有納入關注化學物質對對可是他就是明明不應該在食品廠的東西對對對\n\n10:28.570 --> 10:45.042\n所以有兩個方法我們會去檢討說這一些的項目適不適合納進去因為最早我們的顧慮就是說有一些這一些的化學品是有當成10天在用的那會讓\n\n10:46.463 --> 11:08.103\n民眾會覺得說那怎麼會這些是毒化物然後是可以值得會誤會所以我們未來會用關注化學物質去溝通假如它是沒有定在關注化學物質裡面它運作的紀錄會不夠我們就要靠地形的集合\n\n11:09.024 --> 11:24.044\n去看它進來的這一些非實天的化學品的管理它的庫存它的使用紀錄我們去強化我們在實安叫做三專管理專人專櫃跟專測它每領一瓶出來使用\n\n11:24.825 --> 11:47.351\n多少應該都要寫記錄那我們就要強化這一些管理他買進來的非實天的化學品所有都應該去列管那用這樣的一個方法強化管理因為他如果對不肖的黑心的業者他硬要做壞事不讓我們查那我們就\n\n11:48.535 --> 12:11.081\n得要靠其他的方法去讓它浮出來從蘇丹紅到這一次的事件都是非關注化學的物質假如說每個業者都很有良心也不需要設立食安辦所以我因為時間的關係我今天不大想已經沒有辦法跟你\n\n12:12.161 --> 12:32.498\n溝通很多啦不過我覺得我去找委員我覺得現在沒有納入非關注的部分你們要怎麼去查查這個你們要好好的想一想然後人力不足的部分我是覺得\n\n12:34.159 --> 12:44.261\n食藥署那邊好像已經有增加24個名額也還沒有用要進出補足啦好謝謝主任謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.641,"end":22.526,"text":"謝謝主席 主席請一下部長和署長還有署長兩位好 兩個人同樣專業就不知道要問哪一個這兩個人很專業"},{"start":26.645,"end":45.171,"text":"我直接這樣子問好了就是我們今年大概有到9月底有47個7項的藥品包括學名藥跟針劑將提供供應請問一下這個到底跟藥價有沒有關係"},{"start":47.129,"end":74.888,"text":"根委員報告這個47項裡面大概屬於原廠要的是24個但是這個原廠都已經有學民要出來所以他們多數是考慮到他們的市場定位像那個什麼百優姐千優姐他根本就是不做了因為跟學民要太多了他不要再跟人家競爭了他就轉變他的這個商業的策略去發展他的專利要為主"},{"start":77.709,"end":95.378,"text":"這全部沒有一樣是專利期內的藥不供應都是過了專利期同時有學名藥所以其實跟藥價是沒有關係的藥價我們都可以來提高所以像4月到現在我們也合訂了200多項的藥品給他提高藥價"},{"start":96.738,"end":122.659,"text":"如果真的是因為成本啊物料的價格的影響也可以來提其實有學名藥出來以後的延長藥其實它的價格本來也就跟學名藥差不多對 這個全世界都是應該是這樣只是說我們要去確保這些學名藥的療效讓它相等在保障這個病人用藥的安全會不會引發缺藥的問題啊"},{"start":125.841,"end":142.308,"text":"會缺藥是這個病人拿不到藥叫做缺藥所以我們要處理的是要預警就不要你突然間斷藥了斷藥的時候病人他換藥也要有一定的時間去適應所以我們才會要求說這些要停止"},{"start":142.888,"end":157.23,"text":"提供應的一定要提早講提早講我們就有辦法來因應不論是開始做統一的控貨或者是輔導其他的業者增加產量因為有些有學名要可是他產線有限"},{"start":158.351,"end":184.456,"text":"它要一下子增加也要時間所以這些我們都有辦法因為只要提早預警我們後面就不會有缺藥的問題我們還是利用這個機會讓部長和署長講一下原廠藥跟學名藥因為大概這一次缺藥所以很多人對學名藥會有誤解我覺得這個部裡面跟署裡面應該要去加強宣導"},{"start":187.352,"end":209.92,"text":"原廠藥就是因為藥廠他負責研發所以研發的費用很貴所以給他5年的專利期不只喔專利期有時候很長 20幾年都有可能看他專利期過了以後他大概就會公佈他的成分 劑量跟劑型"},{"start":210.9,"end":228.691,"text":"那其他的藥廠就可以根據這三項去形塑出來它可能藥的包裝不一樣然後形塑的過程會有差異可是通常來講藥效並沒有說一定就是原廠的比較好對不對"},{"start":229.952,"end":252.036,"text":"譬如說大家最接受的普拿疼他就是學民藥跟委員報告 對很多人以為普拿疼是原廠藥不是 他也是學民藥對 所以我才想說藉這個機會是不是提醒一下部裡面跟署裡面就是盡可能讓國人知道避免恐慌大家都以為說原廠藥的療效比較好"},{"start":257.657,"end":276.577,"text":"其實不見得啦應該這麼講就是學名要問世問世的前提就是原廠要公佈了他的所有的配方所以理論上應該是沒有不必要造成這麼大的恐慌只要他的製程符合規則"},{"start":277.178,"end":292.539,"text":"像我們現在是Peace GNP廠自成符合規範配方對了其實有的都還會做臨床試驗做BABE生物相等性這些所以那個可以確保這個要效是相當的基本上就是不一定"},{"start":293.18,"end":316.651,"text":"不一定完全一樣啦那每個病人接受的也不一樣啦可是我覺得我們有必要把這個觀念跟國人做個說明啦不要大家對於因為其實這個就是民意代表當久了你大概就會遇到很多問題啦其實我們很常被問這個問題啦就是說"},{"start":320.473,"end":346.234,"text":"為什麼醫學中心的藥好像就比澎湖好那我通常都會跟他說不會啦就是一般來講不管是原廠 學民他的療效應該都是跟委員補充說川普總統美國川普總統提告提到說要增加那個進口的藥的藥價的那個不是 關稅要增加他也是針對所謂的原廠藥"},{"start":347.635,"end":361.064,"text":"他也是要扶植他自己國內的學民藥所以他只針對原廠藥去提高那個關稅所以道理是一樣的就是原廠藥應該價格要下降那個有學民藥出來了不應該還是在專利期這麼高對 那他"},{"start":365.266,"end":380.779,"text":"有學名要出來他還可以這麼高可能是很多觀念造成的要不然有相同療效的東西出來理論上他不應該這樣子部長既然直接講到川普那我也直接問一下就是說其實藥品"},{"start":382.856,"end":401.502,"text":"是比戰略物資更重要因為它本身也是戰略物資而且它是不管軍民都必須要用的那我們國內川普他是用關稅來保障學民藥的製作嘛那我們國內有沒有相關的"},{"start":405.223,"end":427.33,"text":"我們的做法上是因為這個所有的藥品健保是最大的買方所以在價格上我們對於國產的學民藥那麼在合價上面如果他是專利期剛過前幾個來就鼓勵趕快有學民藥在台灣製造的我們前兩張我們給的價格跟他跟原廠藥一樣"},{"start":428.95,"end":448.389,"text":"我們原廠藥一旦過了專利期大概有五年的時間慢慢調藥價但是如果在這個五年時間有台灣的學名藥跟他一樣我們就給他一樣的價格來鼓勵那第二個呢就是如果你這個是台灣的學名藥同時有做臨床試驗來證明他的療效相等"},{"start":449.724,"end":476.352,"text":"本來不一定要 但是你做了這個事情我們也給你加價10%價格比較高那另外如果你這個這一組的藥裡面 學名藥的品項低於3個以下的我們那一年也不給你調藥價不砍藥價來鼓勵大家來供藥讓它韌性可以好一點那甚至呢還可以來提彈性提高它的藥價所以當然我們也做了這一些"},{"start":478.053,"end":500.77,"text":"甚至於我的看法啦就是說扶植國內的廠商其實台灣有的時候就是大家也怕圖利啦要不然其實國內的藥品的相關廠商其實應該要給必要的資源就給啦"},{"start":502.191,"end":516.091,"text":"因為這個國內不自己扶植自己的藥廠然後萬一有就是等於你的脖子被其他的國家掐住這個對於台灣"},{"start":518.154,"end":547.269,"text":"跟委員報我們最多的時候齁在我們實施Peace GMP前大概國內的藥廠大概400多家現在呢實施Peace GMP已經到100多家了所以留下來的這個都是有品質的製藥廠所以這個進國人給予多方面的協助啦好 謝謝部長 謝謝署長謝謝委員你要跟我問一下國安辦主任嗎國安辦主任麻煩一下"},{"start":547.85,"end":559.894,"text":"主任好主任我大概問一下因為時間的關係我還是想要因為我們設立食安辦公室"},{"start":567.475,"end":593.767,"text":"本身就表示在宣示政府對於人民的食品安全有多重視那看起來就是這一次整個從先不要講前端就從你們知情到稽查到存封的速度都太慢了這個第一點第二點就是我問一個問題就是說你們"},{"start":598.769,"end":626.801,"text":"以後要怎麼防止非關注化學物質進入食品 食品廠要 要 要目前有沒有什麼想法好 應該這樣講 講大方向就好了假如已經列入關注化學物質都會納管他不是 不是 不是對 現在就是還沒有納入關注化學物質 對 對可是他就是明明不應該在食品廠的東西 對 對 對"},{"start":628.57,"end":645.042,"text":"所以有兩個方法我們會去檢討說這一些的項目適不適合納進去因為最早我們的顧慮就是說有一些這一些的化學品是有當成10天在用的那會讓"},{"start":646.463,"end":668.103,"text":"民眾會覺得說那怎麼會這些是毒化物然後是可以值得會誤會所以我們未來會用關注化學物質去溝通假如它是沒有定在關注化學物質裡面它運作的紀錄會不夠我們就要靠地形的集合"},{"start":669.024,"end":684.044,"text":"去看它進來的這一些非實天的化學品的管理它的庫存 它的使用紀錄我們去強化我們在實安叫做三專管理專人 專櫃跟專測它每領一瓶出來使用"},{"start":684.825,"end":707.351,"text":"多少應該都要寫記錄那我們就要強化這一些管理他買進來的非實天的化學品所有都應該去列管那用這樣的一個方法強化管理因為他如果對不肖的黑心的業者他硬要做壞事不讓我們查那我們就"},{"start":708.535,"end":731.081,"text":"得要靠其他的方法去讓它浮出來從蘇丹紅到這一次的事件都是非關注化學的物質假如說每個業者都很有良心也不需要設立食安辦所以我因為時間的關係我今天不大想已經沒有辦法跟你"},{"start":732.161,"end":752.498,"text":"溝通很多啦不過我覺得我去找委員我覺得現在沒有納入非關注的部分你們要怎麼去查查這個你們要好好的想一想然後人力不足的部分我是覺得"},{"start":754.159,"end":764.261,"text":"食藥署那邊好像已經有增加24個名額也還沒有用要進出補足啦好 謝謝主任 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1234,"blocks":[["楊委員曜：（13時19分）謝謝主席。主席，請部長和署長。"],["主席：請部長和署長。"],["石部長崇良：楊委員好。"],["楊委員曜：兩個人同樣專業，就不知道要問哪一個，因為這兩位都很專業。我直接這樣問好了，到今年9月底大概有47項藥品，包括學名藥和針劑將停止供應。請問一下，這到底跟藥價有沒有關係啊？"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，這47項裡屬於原廠藥的是24個，但是原廠因為都已經有學名藥出來，所以多數是考慮到其市場地位，像什麼百憂解、千憂解，根本就不做了啦！因為學名藥太多，原廠不願再跟人家競爭，於是轉變它的商業策略，以發展專利藥為主。所以全都沒有一樣專利期內的藥不供應，都是過了專利期，同時有學名藥者。"],["楊委員曜：所以其實跟藥價沒有關係？"],["石部長崇良：藥價都可以提高，從4月到現在，我們也核定了兩百多項藥品予以提高藥價，如果真的是因為成本、物料價格的影響，也可以來……"],["楊委員曜：其實在學名藥出來以後，原廠藥的價格本來也就會跟學名藥差不多嘛！"],["石部長崇良：對，全世界應該都是這樣。只是我們要確保這些學名藥的療效相等，以保障病人用藥的安全。"],["楊委員曜：會不會引發缺藥問題啊？"],["石部長崇良：關於會不會缺藥，因為病人拿不到藥叫缺藥，所以我們要處理的是預警，就是不要突然間斷藥了。由於斷藥之後，病人換藥需要一定時間適應，所以我們才會要求停止供應這些藥一定要提早講。只要提早講，我們就有辦法因應，不論是開始統一控貨或者是輔導其他業者增加產量。有些業者有學名藥，可是產線有限，一下子要增加也要時間。但這些情況都有辦法因應，只要提早預警，後面就不會有缺藥問題。"],["楊委員曜：我還是要利用這個機會讓部長和署長講一下原廠藥跟學名藥啦！因為這次缺藥大概顯示出很多人對學名藥有誤解，部裡和署裡應該加強宣導啦！原廠藥就是因為由藥廠負責研發，而研發費用很貴，所以給予5年專利期。"],["石部長崇良：不只喔！專利期有時候很長，二十幾年都有。"],["楊委員曜：可能看投資程度。那專利期過了以後，大概就會公布成分……"],["石部長崇良：配方。"],["楊委員曜：劑量跟劑型。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員曜：其他藥廠就可以根據這3項形塑出藥物。可能藥的包裝不一樣，形塑過程會有差異，但是通常來講，藥效上並非原廠藥就一定比較好，對不對？"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員曜：譬如大家最接受的普拿疼就是學名藥。"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，對！很多人以為普拿疼是原廠藥，不是！它也是學名藥。"],["楊委員曜：對，所以我才想藉這個機會提醒一下部裡跟署裡，要儘可能讓國人知道以避免恐慌啦！大家都以為原廠藥的療效比較好，其實不見得，應該這麼講，學名藥問世的前提就是原廠藥公布了所有配方。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員曜：所以，理論上應該沒必要造成這麼大的恐慌。"],["石部長崇良：對，只要製程符合規範，像我們現在是依照PIC/S GMP審查，只要製程符合規範、配方對了即可，有的還會做臨床試驗、BA/BE生物相等性這些試驗，所以可以確保藥效是相當的。"],["楊委員曜：基本上就是不一定完全一樣啦！每個病人接受的程度也不一樣，可是我覺得有必要就這個觀念跟國人作個說明啦！"],["石部長崇良：是。"],["楊委員曜：不要讓大家誤解。其實民意代表當久了，大概就會遇到很多問題，我們就很常被問到這個問題啦！就是為什麼醫學中心的藥就比澎湖好，我通常都會跟他們說不會啦！一般來講，不管是原廠藥、學名藥，療效應該都一樣。"],["石部長崇良：我再跟委員補充，美國川普總統主張提高、增加進口藥的藥價的……不是，是關稅要增加，也是針對原廠藥。因為他也要扶植自己國內的學名藥，所以會針對原廠藥提高關稅，道理是一樣的，就是原廠藥價格應該下降，因為有學名藥出來了，價格就不應該像還在專利期間這麼高。"],["楊委員曜：對、當然，有學名藥出來後價格還可以那麼高，可能是很多觀念造成的。"],["石部長崇良：對。"],["楊委員曜：要不然既然有相同療效的東西出來，理論上不應該這樣。","部長既然直接講到川普，那我也直接問一下。其實藥品比戰略物資更重要，因為它本身也是戰略物資，而且是不管軍民都必須用的。川普是用關稅保障學名藥的製作，那我們國內有沒有相關做法？"],["石部長崇良：在我們的做法上，因為對所有藥品來說，健保是最大買方，所以在價格上，對國產學名藥核價時，如果是專利期剛過、前幾個來申請者，我們為了鼓勵學名藥趕快在臺灣製造，對於前兩張，我們給的價格會跟原廠藥一樣。原廠藥一旦過了專利期，大概有5年時間慢慢調藥價，但是如果在這5年時間中有臺灣學名藥跟它一樣，我們就核定一樣的價格，作為鼓勵。第二，如果臺灣的學名藥同時做了臨床試驗證明其療效相等，本來不一定要，但是業者做了這件事，那麼我們也同意加價10%，價格比較高。另外，如果在這組藥裡面，學名藥的品項低於3個，那一年也不砍藥價，以鼓勵大家供藥，讓韌性好一點，甚至還可以彈性提高其藥價，所以我們大概做了這些措施。"],["楊委員曜：我的看法甚至是要扶植國內廠商。在臺灣，其實大家有時候就是怕圖利，要不然對於國內藥品相關廠商，應該給予必要資源的就要給啦！因為國內若不扶植自己的藥廠，就等於脖子被其他國家掐住，這對臺灣……"],["石部長崇良：跟委員報告，在我們實施PIC/S GMP前，國內藥廠最多的時候大概有四百多家，現在實施PIC/S GMP後，已經到一百多家了，所以留下來的都是有品質的製藥廠，國人可以信任。"],["楊委員曜：就是儘可能給予多方面協助啦！謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["石部長崇良：謝謝委員。"],["楊委員曜：可以讓我再問問食安辦主任嗎？食安辦主任，麻煩一下。"],["許主任輔：委員好。"],["楊委員曜：主任好。雖然受限時間的關係，但我還是想問。設立食安辦公室本身就表示，政府在宣示對於人民的食品安全有多重視。但就這一次看起來，先不要講前端，就從你們知情、稽查到存封，速度都太慢了，這是第一點。第二點，我問你一個問題就好，你們以後要怎麼防止非關注化學物質進入食品廠？目前有沒有什麼想法？大方向就好了。"],["許主任輔：應該這樣講，假如已經列入關注化學物質，都會納管……"],["楊委員曜：不是！"],["許主任輔：現在的問題就是還沒有納入關注化學物質者。"],["楊委員曜：對，可是它明明就是不應該在食品廠的東西啦！"],["許主任輔：對，所以有兩個方法，我們會檢討這些項目適不適合納進去。最早我們的顧慮是有一些化學品被當成食添在用，民眾會覺得這些毒化物怎麼會是可以吃的，可能會有誤會，所以未來我們會用關注化學物質來加以溝通，假如沒有定在關注化學物質裡面，運作的紀錄會不夠。"],["楊委員曜：對，我現在問的是這個部分啦！"],["許主任輔：我們就要靠例行稽核去查看這些被送進來的非食添化學品如何管理，包括庫存、使用紀錄，以強化我們在食安上所稱的三專管理，專人、專櫃、專冊，每一筆、每一瓶拿出來使用多少都應該寫紀錄。我們就是要強化這些管理，所有買進來的非食添化學品都應該列管，用這樣的方法強化管理。如果不肖黑心業者硬要做壞事、不讓我們查，就得靠其他方法讓它浮出來。"],["楊委員曜：從蘇丹紅到這一次事件都屬於非關注化學物質，假如每個業者都很有良心，也不需要設立食安辦公室了。因為時間的關係，我今天已經沒有辦法跟你溝通很多了。"],["許主任輔：我們再去找委員。"],["楊委員曜：不過我覺得對於現在沒有納入非關注化學物質的部分要怎麼查察，你們要好好地想一想。"],["許主任輔：好。"],["楊委員曜：人力不足的部分，食藥署那邊好像已經增加24個名額，也還沒有用，要儘速補足啦！"],["許主任輔：好。"],["楊委員曜：謝謝主任、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","本日會議議程詢答全部結束，現在作以下決定：第一、報告及詢答完畢。第二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料者，請相關機關於2周內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","本次會議到此結束，現在散會。","散會（13時32分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":260,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","林淑芬","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","黃秀芳","王正旭","盧縣一","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","邱志偉","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","廖偉翔","劉建國","葉元之","楊曜"],"page_start":189,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長及行政院食品安全辦公室就「重大食安事件處理之檢討與食安稽核人力不足\n問題」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00004"}}}