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683.743, \"end\": 710.129, \"text\": \"50萬人次真的是非常的多而且我也看到一個非常正面的部分就是說這些產值超人如果有碰到受災戶他們還會跟受災戶聊天這也是一種療癒的過程我想這個是對台灣來講都是一個非常正向的力量那國外媒體也有報導那另外就是說如果這個產值超人慢慢減少救災部分的話現在我們還有一個部分就是替代役\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 683.743, \"end\": 683.903, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 683.903, \"end\": 684.043, \"score\": 0.655}, {\"word\": \"真\", \"start\": 684.043, \"end\": 684.183, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 684.183, \"end\": 684.283, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 684.283, \"end\": 684.423, \"score\": 0.738}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 684.423, \"end\": 684.543, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 684.543, \"end\": 684.703, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 684.703, \"end\": 684.863, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 684.863, \"end\": 685.584, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 685.584, \"end\": 685.784, \"score\": 0.603}, 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{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 707.988, \"end\": 708.148, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 708.148, \"end\": 708.509, \"score\": 0.701}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 708.509, \"end\": 708.689, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 708.689, \"end\": 708.969, \"score\": 0.61}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 708.969, \"end\": 709.129, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 709.129, \"end\": 709.289, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 709.289, \"end\": 709.449, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 709.449, \"end\": 709.729, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"替\", \"start\": 709.729, \"end\": 709.969, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 709.969, \"end\": 710.109, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"役\", \"start\": 710.109, \"end\": 710.129, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 710.849, \"end\": 726.292, \"text\": \"備役替代役我們請花蓮縣政府發動全台灣第一次的備役替代役的動員大概會有240人次那這個部分呢在下一次要處理緊急疏散撤離的兵棋演練或者是說到人家家屋裡面去再協助 比如說家裡有些人行動不方便 還要到廟室的部分我想備役替代役同樣都是花蓮人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"役\", \"start\": 710.849, \"end\": 711.069, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"替\", \"start\": 711.069, \"end\": 711.229, \"score\": 0.699}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 711.229, \"end\": 711.409, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"役\", \"start\": 711.409, \"end\": 711.989, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 711.989, \"end\": 712.429, \"score\": 0.723}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"花\", \"start\": 712.429, \"end\": 712.989, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"蓮\"}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 712.989, \"end\": 713.13, \"score\": 0.618}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 713.13, \"end\": 713.79, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 713.79, \"end\": 713.97, \"score\": 0.633}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 713.97, \"end\": 714.35, \"score\": 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723.752, \"end\": 723.892, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 723.892, \"end\": 723.912, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 723.912, \"end\": 724.392, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"屋\", \"start\": 724.392, \"end\": 724.652, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 724.652, \"end\": 724.672, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 724.672, \"end\": 724.692, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 724.692, \"end\": 724.712, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 724.712, \"end\": 724.852, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 724.852, \"end\": 724.872, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 724.872, \"end\": 724.992, \"score\": 0.639}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 724.992, \"end\": 725.012, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 725.012, \"end\": 725.032, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 725.032, \"end\": 725.112, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 725.112, \"end\": 725.212, \"score\": 0.383}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 725.212, \"end\": 725.432, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 725.432, \"end\": 725.532, \"score\": 0.599}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 725.532, \"end\": 725.552, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 725.552, \"end\": 725.572, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 725.572, \"end\": 725.592, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 725.592, \"end\": 725.612, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"廟\"}, {\"word\": \"室\", \"start\": 725.612, \"end\": 725.632, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 725.632, \"end\": 725.672, \"score\": 0.02}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 725.672, \"end\": 725.692, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 725.692, \"end\": 725.832, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 725.832, \"end\": 725.892, \"score\": 0.64}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 725.892, 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00:00:53,724\n民眾大家都非常的踴躍都是來全力的搶救這個災情所以你看我們未來因為事情已經發生未來我們要怎麼來解決這個問題因為這是一個非常嚴重的天災包括在我們一些警報也好還是民力的結合\n\n4\n00:01:05,900 --> 00:01:32,942\n包括我們警政的結合因為有很多你有發現就是說我們山窟以及偏遠的地方大家都是老弱婦孺都是比較多所以中間這一層人大部分都在外面工作所以可以說很多災難發生你很多地方上你又沒有辦法及時去掌控這一些人員\n\n5\n00:01:34,828 --> 00:01:50,259\n他們有沒有安全的撤離這都是非常重要,尤其我們台灣整個山區的居民都非常的多啊所以說這是我們未來要去檢討要怎麼說,這次我們的M社會事件要怎麼跟他們建制,他們的災禍重建因為對他們的家園損傷都非常嚴重所以說你未來,你說包含我們\n\n6\n00:02:04,728 --> 00:02:23,233\n國土署規劃我們整個國土署那邊的土地還有多少剩餘未來我們的中期的安置計畫包括我們很多不管說社宅也好要安置怎樣我們這些\n\n7\n00:02:24,834 --> 00:02:27,575\n受災,受災婦,讓他們可以在那邊更加安身立命,這是最重要的所以,現在,你說討論責任是歸屬地方還是中央現在最重要,就是要如何來做搶救的工作尤其呢,我看到很多,包括在我的縣區\n\n8\n00:02:48,106 --> 00:03:13,884\n我的選區一些志工都非常的踴躍光是我的選區到花蓮搶救差不多超過100台的遊覽車,他們都是當天來回真的,我們台灣人大家都真的非常有愛心所以說我們未來要怎麼結合這個山區以及偏遠的地方以及我們這個鳳梨縣社府\n\n9\n00:03:14,471 --> 00:03:29,611\n台湾要去整个盘查还有多少存在这个湖面未来的封体的问题这才是应急的改革的问题在这里衬补中你看未来要怎样去规划感谢吴委员的关心\n\n10\n00:03:30,452 --> 00:03:32,434\n經紀農業部的資料現時在台灣這裡有兩個驗射壺一個就是現在馬太安溪一個是在新地目前在馬太安溪這裡因為它水跟土壤已經大量都流了\n\n11\n00:03:46,810 --> 00:03:49,954\n所以現在是監測的部分大概是剩下1.7%所以目前為止它的坡度比較緩但是我們永遠要預測下一次會有什麼時候會發生所以在下一次的汛期之前可能我們要做一些很多這個備變的方式\n\n12\n00:04:04,750 --> 00:04:26,768\n就我所了解經濟部的水利署他們已經針對這個這個核體的部分有2860公尺有三道不同的程序一個是夯實的土地然後再有太空包還有頂塊如果有沖刷下來的話可以擋住讓他下面的下游的這些居住的這個家屋那可以有安全上面的部分\n\n13\n00:04:27,288 --> 00:04:42,338\n然後持續監測的部分的話那個農業部呢也跟日本的國土交通省他們有水位監視器來做處理但是比較不確定的因素就是大規模的崩塌的這個邊坡的不穩定以及什麼時候還會有另外一個颱風夾帶的大量的雨水下來\n\n14\n00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,082\n那這個都是在農業部有高度的跟監測當中同時我們也會請他們的跟包括陽明交大、成大、中興或者是台大這些教授的保持聯繫那怕說下一次有沒有這樣子的狀況這是目前的一個監測的一個狀況那再來收容安置的部分呢確實沒有錯因為有些家屋還沒有完全清淤乾淨\n\n15\n00:05:08,729 --> 00:05:21,919\n所以現在我們所了解這個縣市政府裡面的收容安置的人數大概還有兩百三十幾位就是住在這個收容安置所或是旅宿這是行政院或花蓮縣政府所提供的一個暫時的地方那現在有幾個就是剛剛那個委員所提到的\n\n16\n00:05:26,582 --> 00:05:28,985\n現在這麼多土砂要遭遇了目前為止這個行政院在台塘附近大概有備變了兩塊到三塊土石堆置的地方但是仍然不夠那現在大面積需要處理的大概是落在農業部他們農田上面\n\n17\n00:05:44,426 --> 00:05:51,031\n覆蓋的這個土石量大概有600萬方左右非常的多那所以呢現在農業部他們正在想辦法看怎麼樣幫農民解決未來如果農田要做其他的怎麼樣的復育工作的話那我們就尊重農業部來幫忙處理\n\n18\n00:06:00,837 --> 00:06:05,902\n那再來現在仍然有一部分是環境部在主導在那個市區裡面比較多大概就是所謂的親溝側溝親溝有些是跟他們的這個劃分池或者是其他的下水道是連在一起的\n\n19\n00:06:16,972 --> 00:06:37,655\n那目前我所知道他們這個清溝的這個速度他們預計大概30公里現在清溝的速度大概是20公里所以那個紀連城政務委員下令對不起希望在10月18號的時候清溝可以完成這個第一部分的任務讓很多人可以回去原來的家園做比較更正常的生活\n\n20\n00:06:38,195 --> 00:06:45,978\n那在昨天呢行政院的一站式的服務呢針對這個1837戶已經有1518戶完成申請登記那每一個修繕家園的這個進度大概可以獲得包括震災基金會總共有35萬元的部分讓他們回去可以清掃自己的家屋讓自己的家屋呢可以好好的再回復正常的生活\n\n21\n00:07:02,284 --> 00:07:27,043\n那如果對於非常嚴重也就是我們大家所知道的所謂的佛祖階那一代總共有89戶那89戶呢我上次在立法院院會跟院長在回應這個委員的質詢的時候有說要他們挨家挨戶去查詢他們有沒有必須要異地重建或者是原地重建那我們現在有一些資料已經出來如果他需要原地重建或異地重建的話我們都會來協調跟幫忙\n\n22\n00:07:30,345 --> 00:07:48,091\n那如果需要異地重建目前在這個國土署所找到的地點大概是在台塘靠近他們大晉國小那一帶大概是五空井左右但是異地重建不一定是所謂的遷村因為遷村是永遠的你可能遷村的時候就要放棄原來的你已經被這個沖毀的這個部分\n\n23\n00:07:52,472 --> 00:08:12,061\n那如果說他是用中繼屋的方式來要求的話目前我手頭上的資料有這個中介屋中繼屋需求的人數大概是40戶左右但是還要再進一步溝通因為這個都是每一天在與時漸進在處理當中這是以上我們所知道先跟委員報告一下目前的一個進度\n\n24\n00:08:12,878 --> 00:08:17,600\n好,謝謝,謝謝,我覺得保庭,我們這一處,這個災害,我們中央也全部都動起來所以我也說,在每天,我也看保庭事項,都去關心所以我們說,剛才這個情形,你說堆積場,漁民太過多了\n\n25\n00:08:31,494 --> 00:08:35,276\n所以說因爲太多了,你對自廠一定要把他照顧得好因爲我看很多,你用人工在那裡熬,那個金錢就沒那麼多那怎麼說呢?我們現在都要靠在種機械嘛在種機械的器具裡面,才有辦法解決這個問題,速度才會快你說一般它的住宅裡面,那當然那個種機械都沒辦法進去,都要靠人工嘛\n\n26\n00:08:57,346 --> 00:08:59,228\n所以說你要結合現在全國在志工都非常踴躍去幫忙要怎麼來結合每一次讓他們有建立他們未來他們的經濟處\n\n27\n00:09:10,336 --> 00:09:13,418\n因為這都是非常費時的問題所以我們為大家說要去討論這個問題這可以徹底改觀你說它的中繼屋中繼屋這個速度一定要快你如果說政府部門為大家說要再討論變略的預算也可以討論給民間不管慈濟啊、紅石智慧啊\n\n28\n00:09:31,372 --> 00:09:43,481\n他們的速度也都是很快,我們現在也不分了就是要負責我們的災民,要怎麼來解決還有一點,你說這些種機械,我看他們入境,我本身這裡的資料有2500多台其實我們每一邊的災害都是在種機械,他們來在協助所以說未來他們種機械的問題,也希望說保證可以負責他們解決他們的問題,就是這個\n\n29\n00:09:59,433 --> 00:10:05,978\n停在種機械的問題都長久以來都沒辦法去解決這也是他們透露的心聲所以說這點也拜託補充但是有辦法到該關好感謝委員我跟委員報告我們這裡有資料我剛才跟縣主席會計是出動3071山貓的話是1475我要跟委員報告就是說這裡的志工朋友非常感恩\n\n30\n00:10:24,491 --> 00:10:30,796\n因為他們可以遊樂的地方都在處理但是你如果是累積這裡的土石很多的古老洞的部分大家都是國軍或是慈濟因為慈濟他們動員五千多人那國軍的話動員更多他們都把它運到戰時堆置的地方所以其實是分工啦只不過國軍的分工他們都在拔煤在做工因為歷史的時候我們這裡的產值超人把那些東西\n\n31\n00:10:47,190 --> 00:11:01,005\n把他堆到那個道路上面但是第二天道路又乾淨了為什麼因為半夜的時候國軍已經出動很多人力跟機具把他先運走所以一方面都到底在處理這方面就是說公家跟樹林的產殖超人都有互相的分工啦\n\n32\n00:11:05,530 --> 00:11:08,612\n所以每次看到我們都感謝產殖超人他們能夠到現場去我所了解就是包括我們的NCDR還是包括台鐵光復車站家他們每天都會統計人次因為沒辦法人嘛大概現主席位置大概是50萬人次\n\n33\n00:11:23,743 --> 00:11:50,129\n50萬人次真的是非常的多而且我也看到一個非常正面的部分就是說這些產值超人如果有碰到受災戶他們還會跟受災戶聊天這也是一種療癒的過程我想這個是對台灣來講都是一個非常正向的力量那國外媒體也有報導那另外就是說如果這個產值超人慢慢減少救災部分的話現在我們還有一個部分就是替代役\n\n34\n00:11:50,849 --> 00:12:06,292\n備役替代役我們請花蓮縣政府發動全台灣第一次的備役替代役的動員大概會有240人次那這個部分呢在下一次要處理緊急疏散撤離的兵棋演練或者是說到人家家屋裡面去再協助比如說家裡有些人行動不方便還要到廟室的部分我想備役替代役同樣都是花蓮人\n\n35\n00:12:15,674 --> 00:12:40,742\n應該會協助的機會比較大那就不會說讓現在也是非常忙的包括縣政府或是鄉鎮公所仍然非常忙碌在處理一些其他的事所以我們到目前為止行政院的一站式的服務呢包括新聞節目沒在啦健保卡也沒在我們就馬上幫他做處理那這一方面大概就是慢慢慢慢可以讓他恢復正常的生活所以這是我們目前所做的這個部分當然我們到目前為止\n\n36\n00:12:42,282 --> 00:12:47,489\n中央的災害應變中心跟花蓮縣政府還是一級警戒為什麼因為這裡面的志工人流太多了冰凶時這個地方花蓮車頭這裡光復車頭這裡一天只有八百人\n\n37\n00:13:01,846 --> 00:13:18,836\n你如果有下大雨或是有地震因為前上個禮拜有三次到四次以上的地震警報那這個呢也必須要納入疏散撤離的範圍那所以這就是我們目前為止仍然維持一級警戒裡面四個重要因素裡面的第四個非常重要的好謝謝謝謝部長\n\n38\n00:13:20,512 --> 00:13:35,844\n我說這次這個災害,我們的中央部會,大家都是通力合作,合作在我們所在的災民,這點本身非常輕盈,所以也感謝我們所有的志工,跟我們的國賓,在這裡再次感謝,謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n550\t4334\t好,我們現在繼續開會我們接下來請吳其明委員質詢好,在位,與會同仁請我們內政部部長我們請內政部委員部長\n23483\t39395\t委員你好部長針對花蓮這事件我看早上很多委員大家都非常的關心那其實這個事件我看我們的國軍以及我們各社團\n41860\t53724\t民眾大家都非常的踴躍都是來全力的搶救這個災情所以你看我們未來因為事情已經發生未來我們要怎麼來解決這個問題因為這是一個非常嚴重的天災包括在我們一些警報也好還是民力的結合\n65900\t92942\t包括我們警政的結合因為有很多 你有發現就是說我們山窟以及偏遠的地方大家都是老弱婦孺都是比較多所以中間這一層人大部分都在外面工作所以可以說很多災難發生你很多地方上你又沒有辦法及時去掌控這一些人員\n94828\t110259\t他們有沒有安全的撤離這都是非常重要,尤其我們台灣整個山區的居民都非常的多啊所以說這是我們未來要去檢討要怎麼說,這次我們的M社會事件要怎麼跟他們建制,他們的災禍重建因為對他們的家園損傷都非常嚴重所以說你未來,你說包含我們\n124728\t143233\t國土署規劃我們整個國土署那邊的土地還有多少剩餘未來我們的中期的安置計畫包括我們很多不管說社宅也好要安置怎樣我們這些\n144834\t147575\t受災,受災婦,讓他們可以在那邊更加安身立命,這是最重要的所以,現在,你說討論責任是歸屬地方還是中央現在最重要,就是要如何來做搶救的工作尤其呢,我看到很多,包括在我的縣區\n168106\t193884\t我的選區一些志工都非常的踴躍光是我的選區到花蓮搶救差不多超過100台的遊覽車,他們都是當天來回真的,我們台灣人大家都真的非常有愛心所以說我們未來要怎麼結合這個山區以及偏遠的地方以及我們這個鳳梨縣社府\n194471\t209611\t台湾要去整个盘查还有多少存在这个湖面未来的封体的问题这才是应急的改革的问题在这里衬补中你看未来要怎样去规划感谢吴委员的关心\n210452\t212434\t經紀農業部的資料現時在台灣這裡有兩個驗射壺一個就是現在馬太安溪一個是在新地目前在馬太安溪這裡因為它水跟土壤已經大量都流了\n226810\t229954\t所以現在是監測的部分大概是剩下1.7%所以目前為止它的坡度比較緩但是我們永遠要預測下一次會有什麼時候會發生所以在下一次的汛期之前可能我們要做一些很多這個備變的方式\n244750\t266768\t就我所了解經濟部的水利署他們已經針對這個這個核體的部分有2860公尺有三道不同的程序一個是夯實的土地然後再有太空包還有頂塊如果有沖刷下來的話可以擋住讓他下面的下游的這些居住的這個家屋那可以有安全上面的部分\n267288\t282338\t然後持續監測的部分的話那個農業部呢也跟日本的國土交通省他們有水位監視器來做處理但是比較不確定的因素就是大規模的崩塌的這個邊坡的不穩定以及什麼時候還會有另外一個颱風夾帶的大量的雨水下來\n285240\t289082\t那這個都是在農業部有高度的跟監測當中同時我們也會請他們的跟包括陽明交大、成大、中興或者是台大這些教授的保持聯繫那怕說下一次有沒有這樣子的狀況這是目前的一個監測的一個狀況那再來收容安置的部分呢確實沒有錯因為有些家屋還沒有完全清淤乾淨\n308729\t321919\t所以現在我們所了解這個縣市政府裡面的收容安置的人數大概還有兩百三十幾位就是住在這個收容安置所或是旅宿這是行政院或花蓮縣政府所提供的一個暫時的地方那現在有幾個就是剛剛那個委員所提到的\n326582\t328985\t現在這麼多土砂要遭遇了目前為止這個行政院在台塘附近大概有備變了兩塊到三塊土石堆置的地方但是仍然不夠那現在大面積需要處理的大概是落在農業部他們農田上面\n344426\t351031\t覆蓋的這個土石量大概有600萬方左右非常的多那所以呢現在農業部他們正在想辦法看怎麼樣幫農民解決未來如果農田要做其他的怎麼樣的復育工作的話那我們就尊重農業部來幫忙處理\n360837\t365902\t那再來現在仍然有一部分是環境部在主導在那個市區裡面比較多大概就是所謂的親溝側溝親溝有些是跟他們的這個劃分池或者是其他的下水道是連在一起的\n376972\t397655\t那目前我所知道他們這個清溝的這個速度他們預計大概30公里現在清溝的速度大概是20公里所以那個紀連城政務委員下令對不起希望在10月18號的時候清溝可以完成這個第一部分的任務讓很多人可以回去原來的家園做比較更正常的生活\n398195\t405978\t那在昨天呢行政院的一站式的服務呢針對這個1837戶已經有1518戶完成申請登記那每一個修繕家園的這個進度大概可以獲得包括震災基金會總共有35萬元的部分讓他們回去可以清掃自己的家屋讓自己的家屋呢可以好好的再回復正常的生活\n422284\t447043\t那如果對於非常嚴重也就是我們大家所知道的所謂的佛祖階那一代總共有89戶那89戶呢我上次在立法院院會跟院長在回應這個委員的質詢的時候有說要他們挨家挨戶去查詢他們有沒有必須要異地重建或者是原地重建那我們現在有一些資料已經出來如果他需要原地重建或異地重建的話我們都會來協調跟幫忙\n450345\t468091\t那如果需要異地重建目前在這個國土署所找到的地點大概是在台塘靠近他們大晉國小那一帶大概是五空井左右但是異地重建不一定是所謂的遷村因為遷村是永遠的你可能遷村的時候就要放棄原來的你已經被這個沖毀的這個部分\n472472\t492061\t那如果說他是用中繼屋的方式來要求的話目前我手頭上的資料有這個中介屋中繼屋需求的人數大概是40戶左右但是還要再進一步溝通因為這個都是每一天在與時漸進在處理當中這是以上我們所知道先跟委員報告一下目前的一個進度\n492878\t497600\t好,謝謝,謝謝,我覺得保庭,我們這一處,這個災害,我們中央也全部都動起來所以我也說,在每天,我也看保庭事項,都去關心所以我們說,剛才這個情形,你說堆積場,漁民太過多了\n511494\t515276\t所以說因爲太多了,你對自廠一定要把他照顧得好因爲我看很多,你用人工在那裡熬,那個金錢就沒那麼多那怎麼說呢?我們現在都要靠在種機械嘛在種機械的器具裡面,才有辦法解決這個問題,速度才會快你說一般它的住宅裡面,那當然那個種機械都沒辦法進去,都要靠人工嘛\n537346\t539228\t所以說你要結合現在全國在志工都非常踴躍去幫忙要怎麼來結合每一次讓他們有建立他們未來他們的經濟處\n550336\t553418\t因為這都是非常費時的問題所以我們為大家說要去討論這個問題這可以徹底改觀你說它的中繼屋中繼屋這個速度一定要快你如果說政府部門為大家說要再討論變略的預算也可以討論給民間不管慈濟啊、紅石智慧啊\n571372\t583481\t他們的速度也都是很快,我們現在也不分了就是要負責我們的災民,要怎麼來解決還有一點,你說這些種機械,我看他們入境,我本身這裡的資料有2500多台其實我們每一邊的災害都是在種機械,他們來在協助所以說未來他們種機械的問題,也希望說保證可以負責他們解決他們的問題,就是這個\n599433\t605978\t停在種機械的問題都長久以來都沒辦法去解決這也是他們透露的心聲所以說這點也拜託補充 但是有辦法 到該關好 感謝委員 我跟委員報告我們這裡有資料 我剛才跟縣主席會計是出動3071山貓的話是1475我要跟委員報告就是說 這裡的志工朋友非常感恩\n624491\t630796\t因為他們可以遊樂的地方都在處理但是你如果是累積這裡的土石很多的古老洞的部分大家都是國軍或是慈濟因為慈濟他們動員五千多人那國軍的話動員更多他們都把它運到戰時堆置的地方所以其實是分工啦只不過國軍的分工 他們都在拔煤 在做工因為歷史的時候 我們這裡的產值超人把那些東西\n647190\t661005\t把他堆到那個道路上面但是第二天道路又乾淨了為什麼 因為半夜的時候國軍已經出動很多人力跟機具把他先運走所以一方面都到底在處理這方面就是說公家跟樹林的產殖超人都有互相的分工啦\n665530\t668612\t所以每次看到我們都感謝產殖超人他們能夠到現場去我所了解就是包括我們的NCDR 還是包括台鐵光復車站家他們每天都會統計人次 因為沒辦法人嘛大概現主席位置大概是50萬人次\n683743\t710129\t50萬人次真的是非常的多而且我也看到一個非常正面的部分就是說這些產值超人如果有碰到受災戶他們還會跟受災戶聊天這也是一種療癒的過程我想這個是對台灣來講都是一個非常正向的力量那國外媒體也有報導那另外就是說如果這個產值超人慢慢減少救災部分的話現在我們還有一個部分就是替代役\n710849\t726292\t備役替代役我們請花蓮縣政府發動全台灣第一次的備役替代役的動員大概會有240人次那這個部分呢在下一次要處理緊急疏散撤離的兵棋演練或者是說到人家家屋裡面去再協助 比如說家裡有些人行動不方便 還要到廟室的部分我想備役替代役同樣都是花蓮人\n735674\t760742\t應該會協助的機會比較大那就不會說讓現在也是非常忙的包括縣政府或是鄉鎮公所仍然非常忙碌在處理一些其他的事所以我們到目前為止行政院的一站式的服務呢包括新聞節目沒在啦健保卡也沒在我們就馬上幫他做處理那這一方面大概就是慢慢慢慢可以讓他恢復正常的生活所以這是我們目前所做的這個部分當然我們到目前為止\n762282\t767489\t中央的災害應變中心跟花蓮縣政府還是一級警戒為什麼 因為這裡面的志工人流太多了冰凶時這個地方 花蓮車頭這裡 光復車頭這裡一天只有八百人\n781846\t798836\t你如果有下大雨或是有地震因為前上個禮拜有三次到四次以上的地震警報那這個呢也必須要納入疏散撤離的範圍那所以這就是我們目前為止仍然維持一級警戒裡面四個重要因素裡面的第四個非常重要的好謝謝謝謝部長\n800512\t815844\t我說這次這個災害,我們的中央部會,大家都是通力合作,合作在我們所在的災民,這點本身非常輕盈,所以也感謝我們所有的志工,跟我們的國賓,在這裡再次感謝,謝謝\n","txt":"好,我們現在繼續開會我們接下來請吳其明委員質詢好,在位,與會同仁請我們內政部部長我們請內政部委員部長\n委員你好部長針對花蓮這事件我看早上很多委員大家都非常的關心那其實這個事件我看我們的國軍以及我們各社團\n民眾大家都非常的踴躍都是來全力的搶救這個災情所以你看我們未來因為事情已經發生未來我們要怎麼來解決這個問題因為這是一個非常嚴重的天災包括在我們一些警報也好還是民力的結合\n包括我們警政的結合因為有很多 你有發現就是說我們山窟以及偏遠的地方大家都是老弱婦孺都是比較多所以中間這一層人大部分都在外面工作所以可以說很多災難發生你很多地方上你又沒有辦法及時去掌控這一些人員\n他們有沒有安全的撤離這都是非常重要,尤其我們台灣整個山區的居民都非常的多啊所以說這是我們未來要去檢討要怎麼說,這次我們的M社會事件要怎麼跟他們建制,他們的災禍重建因為對他們的家園損傷都非常嚴重所以說你未來,你說包含我們\n國土署規劃我們整個國土署那邊的土地還有多少剩餘未來我們的中期的安置計畫包括我們很多不管說社宅也好要安置怎樣我們這些\n受災,受災婦,讓他們可以在那邊更加安身立命,這是最重要的所以,現在,你說討論責任是歸屬地方還是中央現在最重要,就是要如何來做搶救的工作尤其呢,我看到很多,包括在我的縣區\n我的選區一些志工都非常的踴躍光是我的選區到花蓮搶救差不多超過100台的遊覽車,他們都是當天來回真的,我們台灣人大家都真的非常有愛心所以說我們未來要怎麼結合這個山區以及偏遠的地方以及我們這個鳳梨縣社府\n台湾要去整个盘查还有多少存在这个湖面未来的封体的问题这才是应急的改革的问题在这里衬补中你看未来要怎样去规划感谢吴委员的关心\n經紀農業部的資料現時在台灣這裡有兩個驗射壺一個就是現在馬太安溪一個是在新地目前在馬太安溪這裡因為它水跟土壤已經大量都流了\n所以現在是監測的部分大概是剩下1.7%所以目前為止它的坡度比較緩但是我們永遠要預測下一次會有什麼時候會發生所以在下一次的汛期之前可能我們要做一些很多這個備變的方式\n就我所了解經濟部的水利署他們已經針對這個這個核體的部分有2860公尺有三道不同的程序一個是夯實的土地然後再有太空包還有頂塊如果有沖刷下來的話可以擋住讓他下面的下游的這些居住的這個家屋那可以有安全上面的部分\n然後持續監測的部分的話那個農業部呢也跟日本的國土交通省他們有水位監視器來做處理但是比較不確定的因素就是大規模的崩塌的這個邊坡的不穩定以及什麼時候還會有另外一個颱風夾帶的大量的雨水下來\n那這個都是在農業部有高度的跟監測當中同時我們也會請他們的跟包括陽明交大、成大、中興或者是台大這些教授的保持聯繫那怕說下一次有沒有這樣子的狀況這是目前的一個監測的一個狀況那再來收容安置的部分呢確實沒有錯因為有些家屋還沒有完全清淤乾淨\n所以現在我們所了解這個縣市政府裡面的收容安置的人數大概還有兩百三十幾位就是住在這個收容安置所或是旅宿這是行政院或花蓮縣政府所提供的一個暫時的地方那現在有幾個就是剛剛那個委員所提到的\n現在這麼多土砂要遭遇了目前為止這個行政院在台塘附近大概有備變了兩塊到三塊土石堆置的地方但是仍然不夠那現在大面積需要處理的大概是落在農業部他們農田上面\n覆蓋的這個土石量大概有600萬方左右非常的多那所以呢現在農業部他們正在想辦法看怎麼樣幫農民解決未來如果農田要做其他的怎麼樣的復育工作的話那我們就尊重農業部來幫忙處理\n那再來現在仍然有一部分是環境部在主導在那個市區裡面比較多大概就是所謂的親溝側溝親溝有些是跟他們的這個劃分池或者是其他的下水道是連在一起的\n那目前我所知道他們這個清溝的這個速度他們預計大概30公里現在清溝的速度大概是20公里所以那個紀連城政務委員下令對不起希望在10月18號的時候清溝可以完成這個第一部分的任務讓很多人可以回去原來的家園做比較更正常的生活\n那在昨天呢行政院的一站式的服務呢針對這個1837戶已經有1518戶完成申請登記那每一個修繕家園的這個進度大概可以獲得包括震災基金會總共有35萬元的部分讓他們回去可以清掃自己的家屋讓自己的家屋呢可以好好的再回復正常的生活\n那如果對於非常嚴重也就是我們大家所知道的所謂的佛祖階那一代總共有89戶那89戶呢我上次在立法院院會跟院長在回應這個委員的質詢的時候有說要他們挨家挨戶去查詢他們有沒有必須要異地重建或者是原地重建那我們現在有一些資料已經出來如果他需要原地重建或異地重建的話我們都會來協調跟幫忙\n那如果需要異地重建目前在這個國土署所找到的地點大概是在台塘靠近他們大晉國小那一帶大概是五空井左右但是異地重建不一定是所謂的遷村因為遷村是永遠的你可能遷村的時候就要放棄原來的你已經被這個沖毀的這個部分\n那如果說他是用中繼屋的方式來要求的話目前我手頭上的資料有這個中介屋中繼屋需求的人數大概是40戶左右但是還要再進一步溝通因為這個都是每一天在與時漸進在處理當中這是以上我們所知道先跟委員報告一下目前的一個進度\n好,謝謝,謝謝,我覺得保庭,我們這一處,這個災害,我們中央也全部都動起來所以我也說,在每天,我也看保庭事項,都去關心所以我們說,剛才這個情形,你說堆積場,漁民太過多了\n所以說因爲太多了,你對自廠一定要把他照顧得好因爲我看很多,你用人工在那裡熬,那個金錢就沒那麼多那怎麼說呢?我們現在都要靠在種機械嘛在種機械的器具裡面,才有辦法解決這個問題,速度才會快你說一般它的住宅裡面,那當然那個種機械都沒辦法進去,都要靠人工嘛\n所以說你要結合現在全國在志工都非常踴躍去幫忙要怎麼來結合每一次讓他們有建立他們未來他們的經濟處\n因為這都是非常費時的問題所以我們為大家說要去討論這個問題這可以徹底改觀你說它的中繼屋中繼屋這個速度一定要快你如果說政府部門為大家說要再討論變略的預算也可以討論給民間不管慈濟啊、紅石智慧啊\n他們的速度也都是很快,我們現在也不分了就是要負責我們的災民,要怎麼來解決還有一點,你說這些種機械,我看他們入境,我本身這裡的資料有2500多台其實我們每一邊的災害都是在種機械,他們來在協助所以說未來他們種機械的問題,也希望說保證可以負責他們解決他們的問題,就是這個\n停在種機械的問題都長久以來都沒辦法去解決這也是他們透露的心聲所以說這點也拜託補充 但是有辦法 到該關好 感謝委員 我跟委員報告我們這裡有資料 我剛才跟縣主席會計是出動3071山貓的話是1475我要跟委員報告就是說 這裡的志工朋友非常感恩\n因為他們可以遊樂的地方都在處理但是你如果是累積這裡的土石很多的古老洞的部分大家都是國軍或是慈濟因為慈濟他們動員五千多人那國軍的話動員更多他們都把它運到戰時堆置的地方所以其實是分工啦只不過國軍的分工 他們都在拔煤 在做工因為歷史的時候 我們這裡的產值超人把那些東西\n把他堆到那個道路上面但是第二天道路又乾淨了為什麼 因為半夜的時候國軍已經出動很多人力跟機具把他先運走所以一方面都到底在處理這方面就是說公家跟樹林的產殖超人都有互相的分工啦\n所以每次看到我們都感謝產殖超人他們能夠到現場去我所了解就是包括我們的NCDR 還是包括台鐵光復車站家他們每天都會統計人次 因為沒辦法人嘛大概現主席位置大概是50萬人次\n50萬人次真的是非常的多而且我也看到一個非常正面的部分就是說這些產值超人如果有碰到受災戶他們還會跟受災戶聊天這也是一種療癒的過程我想這個是對台灣來講都是一個非常正向的力量那國外媒體也有報導那另外就是說如果這個產值超人慢慢減少救災部分的話現在我們還有一個部分就是替代役\n備役替代役我們請花蓮縣政府發動全台灣第一次的備役替代役的動員大概會有240人次那這個部分呢在下一次要處理緊急疏散撤離的兵棋演練或者是說到人家家屋裡面去再協助 比如說家裡有些人行動不方便 還要到廟室的部分我想備役替代役同樣都是花蓮人\n應該會協助的機會比較大那就不會說讓現在也是非常忙的包括縣政府或是鄉鎮公所仍然非常忙碌在處理一些其他的事所以我們到目前為止行政院的一站式的服務呢包括新聞節目沒在啦健保卡也沒在我們就馬上幫他做處理那這一方面大概就是慢慢慢慢可以讓他恢復正常的生活所以這是我們目前所做的這個部分當然我們到目前為止\n中央的災害應變中心跟花蓮縣政府還是一級警戒為什麼 因為這裡面的志工人流太多了冰凶時這個地方 花蓮車頭這裡 光復車頭這裡一天只有八百人\n你如果有下大雨或是有地震因為前上個禮拜有三次到四次以上的地震警報那這個呢也必須要納入疏散撤離的範圍那所以這就是我們目前為止仍然維持一級警戒裡面四個重要因素裡面的第四個非常重要的好謝謝謝謝部長\n我說這次這個災害,我們的中央部會,大家都是通力合作,合作在我們所在的災民,這點本身非常輕盈,所以也感謝我們所有的志工,跟我們的國賓,在這裡再次感謝,謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.550 --> 00:04.334\n好,我們現在繼續開會我們接下來請吳其明委員質詢好,在位,與會同仁請我們內政部部長我們請內政部委員部長\n\n00:23.483 --> 00:39.395\n委員你好部長針對花蓮這事件我看早上很多委員大家都非常的關心那其實這個事件我看我們的國軍以及我們各社團\n\n00:41.860 --> 00:53.724\n民眾大家都非常的踴躍都是來全力的搶救這個災情所以你看我們未來因為事情已經發生未來我們要怎麼來解決這個問題因為這是一個非常嚴重的天災包括在我們一些警報也好還是民力的結合\n\n01:05.900 --> 01:32.942\n包括我們警政的結合因為有很多你有發現就是說我們山窟以及偏遠的地方大家都是老弱婦孺都是比較多所以中間這一層人大部分都在外面工作所以可以說很多災難發生你很多地方上你又沒有辦法及時去掌控這一些人員\n\n01:34.828 --> 01:50.259\n他們有沒有安全的撤離這都是非常重要,尤其我們台灣整個山區的居民都非常的多啊所以說這是我們未來要去檢討要怎麼說,這次我們的M社會事件要怎麼跟他們建制,他們的災禍重建因為對他們的家園損傷都非常嚴重所以說你未來,你說包含我們\n\n02:04.728 --> 02:23.233\n國土署規劃我們整個國土署那邊的土地還有多少剩餘未來我們的中期的安置計畫包括我們很多不管說社宅也好要安置怎樣我們這些\n\n02:24.834 --> 02:27.575\n受災,受災婦,讓他們可以在那邊更加安身立命,這是最重要的所以,現在,你說討論責任是歸屬地方還是中央現在最重要,就是要如何來做搶救的工作尤其呢,我看到很多,包括在我的縣區\n\n02:48.106 --> 03:13.884\n我的選區一些志工都非常的踴躍光是我的選區到花蓮搶救差不多超過100台的遊覽車,他們都是當天來回真的,我們台灣人大家都真的非常有愛心所以說我們未來要怎麼結合這個山區以及偏遠的地方以及我們這個鳳梨縣社府\n\n03:14.471 --> 03:29.611\n台湾要去整个盘查还有多少存在这个湖面未来的封体的问题这才是应急的改革的问题在这里衬补中你看未来要怎样去规划感谢吴委员的关心\n\n03:30.452 --> 03:32.434\n經紀農業部的資料現時在台灣這裡有兩個驗射壺一個就是現在馬太安溪一個是在新地目前在馬太安溪這裡因為它水跟土壤已經大量都流了\n\n03:46.810 --> 03:49.954\n所以現在是監測的部分大概是剩下1.7%所以目前為止它的坡度比較緩但是我們永遠要預測下一次會有什麼時候會發生所以在下一次的汛期之前可能我們要做一些很多這個備變的方式\n\n04:04.750 --> 04:26.768\n就我所了解經濟部的水利署他們已經針對這個這個核體的部分有2860公尺有三道不同的程序一個是夯實的土地然後再有太空包還有頂塊如果有沖刷下來的話可以擋住讓他下面的下游的這些居住的這個家屋那可以有安全上面的部分\n\n04:27.288 --> 04:42.338\n然後持續監測的部分的話那個農業部呢也跟日本的國土交通省他們有水位監視器來做處理但是比較不確定的因素就是大規模的崩塌的這個邊坡的不穩定以及什麼時候還會有另外一個颱風夾帶的大量的雨水下來\n\n04:45.240 --> 04:49.082\n那這個都是在農業部有高度的跟監測當中同時我們也會請他們的跟包括陽明交大、成大、中興或者是台大這些教授的保持聯繫那怕說下一次有沒有這樣子的狀況這是目前的一個監測的一個狀況那再來收容安置的部分呢確實沒有錯因為有些家屋還沒有完全清淤乾淨\n\n05:08.729 --> 05:21.919\n所以現在我們所了解這個縣市政府裡面的收容安置的人數大概還有兩百三十幾位就是住在這個收容安置所或是旅宿這是行政院或花蓮縣政府所提供的一個暫時的地方那現在有幾個就是剛剛那個委員所提到的\n\n05:26.582 --> 05:28.985\n現在這麼多土砂要遭遇了目前為止這個行政院在台塘附近大概有備變了兩塊到三塊土石堆置的地方但是仍然不夠那現在大面積需要處理的大概是落在農業部他們農田上面\n\n05:44.426 --> 05:51.031\n覆蓋的這個土石量大概有600萬方左右非常的多那所以呢現在農業部他們正在想辦法看怎麼樣幫農民解決未來如果農田要做其他的怎麼樣的復育工作的話那我們就尊重農業部來幫忙處理\n\n06:00.837 --> 06:05.902\n那再來現在仍然有一部分是環境部在主導在那個市區裡面比較多大概就是所謂的親溝側溝親溝有些是跟他們的這個劃分池或者是其他的下水道是連在一起的\n\n06:16.972 --> 06:37.655\n那目前我所知道他們這個清溝的這個速度他們預計大概30公里現在清溝的速度大概是20公里所以那個紀連城政務委員下令對不起希望在10月18號的時候清溝可以完成這個第一部分的任務讓很多人可以回去原來的家園做比較更正常的生活\n\n06:38.195 --> 06:45.978\n那在昨天呢行政院的一站式的服務呢針對這個1837戶已經有1518戶完成申請登記那每一個修繕家園的這個進度大概可以獲得包括震災基金會總共有35萬元的部分讓他們回去可以清掃自己的家屋讓自己的家屋呢可以好好的再回復正常的生活\n\n07:02.284 --> 07:27.043\n那如果對於非常嚴重也就是我們大家所知道的所謂的佛祖階那一代總共有89戶那89戶呢我上次在立法院院會跟院長在回應這個委員的質詢的時候有說要他們挨家挨戶去查詢他們有沒有必須要異地重建或者是原地重建那我們現在有一些資料已經出來如果他需要原地重建或異地重建的話我們都會來協調跟幫忙\n\n07:30.345 --> 07:48.091\n那如果需要異地重建目前在這個國土署所找到的地點大概是在台塘靠近他們大晉國小那一帶大概是五空井左右但是異地重建不一定是所謂的遷村因為遷村是永遠的你可能遷村的時候就要放棄原來的你已經被這個沖毀的這個部分\n\n07:52.472 --> 08:12.061\n那如果說他是用中繼屋的方式來要求的話目前我手頭上的資料有這個中介屋中繼屋需求的人數大概是40戶左右但是還要再進一步溝通因為這個都是每一天在與時漸進在處理當中這是以上我們所知道先跟委員報告一下目前的一個進度\n\n08:12.878 --> 08:17.600\n好,謝謝,謝謝,我覺得保庭,我們這一處,這個災害,我們中央也全部都動起來所以我也說,在每天,我也看保庭事項,都去關心所以我們說,剛才這個情形,你說堆積場,漁民太過多了\n\n08:31.494 --> 08:35.276\n所以說因爲太多了,你對自廠一定要把他照顧得好因爲我看很多,你用人工在那裡熬,那個金錢就沒那麼多那怎麼說呢?我們現在都要靠在種機械嘛在種機械的器具裡面,才有辦法解決這個問題,速度才會快你說一般它的住宅裡面,那當然那個種機械都沒辦法進去,都要靠人工嘛\n\n08:57.346 --> 08:59.228\n所以說你要結合現在全國在志工都非常踴躍去幫忙要怎麼來結合每一次讓他們有建立他們未來他們的經濟處\n\n09:10.336 --> 09:13.418\n因為這都是非常費時的問題所以我們為大家說要去討論這個問題這可以徹底改觀你說它的中繼屋中繼屋這個速度一定要快你如果說政府部門為大家說要再討論變略的預算也可以討論給民間不管慈濟啊、紅石智慧啊\n\n09:31.372 --> 09:43.481\n他們的速度也都是很快,我們現在也不分了就是要負責我們的災民,要怎麼來解決還有一點,你說這些種機械,我看他們入境,我本身這裡的資料有2500多台其實我們每一邊的災害都是在種機械,他們來在協助所以說未來他們種機械的問題,也希望說保證可以負責他們解決他們的問題,就是這個\n\n09:59.433 --> 10:05.978\n停在種機械的問題都長久以來都沒辦法去解決這也是他們透露的心聲所以說這點也拜託補充但是有辦法到該關好感謝委員我跟委員報告我們這裡有資料我剛才跟縣主席會計是出動3071山貓的話是1475我要跟委員報告就是說這裡的志工朋友非常感恩\n\n10:24.491 --> 10:30.796\n因為他們可以遊樂的地方都在處理但是你如果是累積這裡的土石很多的古老洞的部分大家都是國軍或是慈濟因為慈濟他們動員五千多人那國軍的話動員更多他們都把它運到戰時堆置的地方所以其實是分工啦只不過國軍的分工他們都在拔煤在做工因為歷史的時候我們這裡的產值超人把那些東西\n\n10:47.190 --> 11:01.005\n把他堆到那個道路上面但是第二天道路又乾淨了為什麼因為半夜的時候國軍已經出動很多人力跟機具把他先運走所以一方面都到底在處理這方面就是說公家跟樹林的產殖超人都有互相的分工啦\n\n11:05.530 --> 11:08.612\n所以每次看到我們都感謝產殖超人他們能夠到現場去我所了解就是包括我們的NCDR還是包括台鐵光復車站家他們每天都會統計人次因為沒辦法人嘛大概現主席位置大概是50萬人次\n\n11:23.743 --> 11:50.129\n50萬人次真的是非常的多而且我也看到一個非常正面的部分就是說這些產值超人如果有碰到受災戶他們還會跟受災戶聊天這也是一種療癒的過程我想這個是對台灣來講都是一個非常正向的力量那國外媒體也有報導那另外就是說如果這個產值超人慢慢減少救災部分的話現在我們還有一個部分就是替代役\n\n11:50.849 --> 12:06.292\n備役替代役我們請花蓮縣政府發動全台灣第一次的備役替代役的動員大概會有240人次那這個部分呢在下一次要處理緊急疏散撤離的兵棋演練或者是說到人家家屋裡面去再協助比如說家裡有些人行動不方便還要到廟室的部分我想備役替代役同樣都是花蓮人\n\n12:15.674 --> 12:40.742\n應該會協助的機會比較大那就不會說讓現在也是非常忙的包括縣政府或是鄉鎮公所仍然非常忙碌在處理一些其他的事所以我們到目前為止行政院的一站式的服務呢包括新聞節目沒在啦健保卡也沒在我們就馬上幫他做處理那這一方面大概就是慢慢慢慢可以讓他恢復正常的生活所以這是我們目前所做的這個部分當然我們到目前為止\n\n12:42.282 --> 12:47.489\n中央的災害應變中心跟花蓮縣政府還是一級警戒為什麼因為這裡面的志工人流太多了冰凶時這個地方花蓮車頭這裡光復車頭這裡一天只有八百人\n\n13:01.846 --> 13:18.836\n你如果有下大雨或是有地震因為前上個禮拜有三次到四次以上的地震警報那這個呢也必須要納入疏散撤離的範圍那所以這就是我們目前為止仍然維持一級警戒裡面四個重要因素裡面的第四個非常重要的好謝謝謝謝部長\n\n13:20.512 --> 13:35.844\n我說這次這個災害,我們的中央部會,大家都是通力合作,合作在我們所在的災民,這點本身非常輕盈,所以也感謝我們所有的志工,跟我們的國賓,在這裡再次感謝,謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.55,"end":4.334,"text":"好,我們現在繼續開會我們接下來請吳其明委員質詢好,在位,與會同仁請我們內政部部長我們請內政部委員部長"},{"start":23.483,"end":39.395,"text":"委員你好部長針對花蓮這事件我看早上很多委員大家都非常的關心那其實這個事件我看我們的國軍以及我們各社團"},{"start":41.86,"end":53.724,"text":"民眾大家都非常的踴躍都是來全力的搶救這個災情所以你看我們未來因為事情已經發生未來我們要怎麼來解決這個問題因為這是一個非常嚴重的天災包括在我們一些警報也好還是民力的結合"},{"start":65.9,"end":92.942,"text":"包括我們警政的結合因為有很多 你有發現就是說我們山窟以及偏遠的地方大家都是老弱婦孺都是比較多所以中間這一層人大部分都在外面工作所以可以說很多災難發生你很多地方上你又沒有辦法及時去掌控這一些人員"},{"start":94.828,"end":110.259,"text":"他們有沒有安全的撤離這都是非常重要,尤其我們台灣整個山區的居民都非常的多啊所以說這是我們未來要去檢討要怎麼說,這次我們的M社會事件要怎麼跟他們建制,他們的災禍重建因為對他們的家園損傷都非常嚴重所以說你未來,你說包含我們"},{"start":124.728,"end":143.233,"text":"國土署規劃我們整個國土署那邊的土地還有多少剩餘未來我們的中期的安置計畫包括我們很多不管說社宅也好要安置怎樣我們這些"},{"start":144.834,"end":147.575,"text":"受災,受災婦,讓他們可以在那邊更加安身立命,這是最重要的所以,現在,你說討論責任是歸屬地方還是中央現在最重要,就是要如何來做搶救的工作尤其呢,我看到很多,包括在我的縣區"},{"start":168.106,"end":193.884,"text":"我的選區一些志工都非常的踴躍光是我的選區到花蓮搶救差不多超過100台的遊覽車,他們都是當天來回真的,我們台灣人大家都真的非常有愛心所以說我們未來要怎麼結合這個山區以及偏遠的地方以及我們這個鳳梨縣社府"},{"start":194.471,"end":209.611,"text":"台湾要去整个盘查还有多少存在这个湖面未来的封体的问题这才是应急的改革的问题在这里衬补中你看未来要怎样去规划感谢吴委员的关心"},{"start":210.452,"end":212.434,"text":"經紀農業部的資料現時在台灣這裡有兩個驗射壺一個就是現在馬太安溪一個是在新地目前在馬太安溪這裡因為它水跟土壤已經大量都流了"},{"start":226.81,"end":229.954,"text":"所以現在是監測的部分大概是剩下1.7%所以目前為止它的坡度比較緩但是我們永遠要預測下一次會有什麼時候會發生所以在下一次的汛期之前可能我們要做一些很多這個備變的方式"},{"start":244.75,"end":266.768,"text":"就我所了解經濟部的水利署他們已經針對這個這個核體的部分有2860公尺有三道不同的程序一個是夯實的土地然後再有太空包還有頂塊如果有沖刷下來的話可以擋住讓他下面的下游的這些居住的這個家屋那可以有安全上面的部分"},{"start":267.288,"end":282.338,"text":"然後持續監測的部分的話那個農業部呢也跟日本的國土交通省他們有水位監視器來做處理但是比較不確定的因素就是大規模的崩塌的這個邊坡的不穩定以及什麼時候還會有另外一個颱風夾帶的大量的雨水下來"},{"start":285.24,"end":289.082,"text":"那這個都是在農業部有高度的跟監測當中同時我們也會請他們的跟包括陽明交大、成大、中興或者是台大這些教授的保持聯繫那怕說下一次有沒有這樣子的狀況這是目前的一個監測的一個狀況那再來收容安置的部分呢確實沒有錯因為有些家屋還沒有完全清淤乾淨"},{"start":308.729,"end":321.919,"text":"所以現在我們所了解這個縣市政府裡面的收容安置的人數大概還有兩百三十幾位就是住在這個收容安置所或是旅宿這是行政院或花蓮縣政府所提供的一個暫時的地方那現在有幾個就是剛剛那個委員所提到的"},{"start":326.582,"end":328.985,"text":"現在這麼多土砂要遭遇了目前為止這個行政院在台塘附近大概有備變了兩塊到三塊土石堆置的地方但是仍然不夠那現在大面積需要處理的大概是落在農業部他們農田上面"},{"start":344.426,"end":351.031,"text":"覆蓋的這個土石量大概有600萬方左右非常的多那所以呢現在農業部他們正在想辦法看怎麼樣幫農民解決未來如果農田要做其他的怎麼樣的復育工作的話那我們就尊重農業部來幫忙處理"},{"start":360.837,"end":365.902,"text":"那再來現在仍然有一部分是環境部在主導在那個市區裡面比較多大概就是所謂的親溝側溝親溝有些是跟他們的這個劃分池或者是其他的下水道是連在一起的"},{"start":376.972,"end":397.655,"text":"那目前我所知道他們這個清溝的這個速度他們預計大概30公里現在清溝的速度大概是20公里所以那個紀連城政務委員下令對不起希望在10月18號的時候清溝可以完成這個第一部分的任務讓很多人可以回去原來的家園做比較更正常的生活"},{"start":398.195,"end":405.978,"text":"那在昨天呢行政院的一站式的服務呢針對這個1837戶已經有1518戶完成申請登記那每一個修繕家園的這個進度大概可以獲得包括震災基金會總共有35萬元的部分讓他們回去可以清掃自己的家屋讓自己的家屋呢可以好好的再回復正常的生活"},{"start":422.284,"end":447.043,"text":"那如果對於非常嚴重也就是我們大家所知道的所謂的佛祖階那一代總共有89戶那89戶呢我上次在立法院院會跟院長在回應這個委員的質詢的時候有說要他們挨家挨戶去查詢他們有沒有必須要異地重建或者是原地重建那我們現在有一些資料已經出來如果他需要原地重建或異地重建的話我們都會來協調跟幫忙"},{"start":450.345,"end":468.091,"text":"那如果需要異地重建目前在這個國土署所找到的地點大概是在台塘靠近他們大晉國小那一帶大概是五空井左右但是異地重建不一定是所謂的遷村因為遷村是永遠的你可能遷村的時候就要放棄原來的你已經被這個沖毀的這個部分"},{"start":472.472,"end":492.061,"text":"那如果說他是用中繼屋的方式來要求的話目前我手頭上的資料有這個中介屋中繼屋需求的人數大概是40戶左右但是還要再進一步溝通因為這個都是每一天在與時漸進在處理當中這是以上我們所知道先跟委員報告一下目前的一個進度"},{"start":492.878,"end":497.6,"text":"好,謝謝,謝謝,我覺得保庭,我們這一處,這個災害,我們中央也全部都動起來所以我也說,在每天,我也看保庭事項,都去關心所以我們說,剛才這個情形,你說堆積場,漁民太過多了"},{"start":511.494,"end":515.276,"text":"所以說因爲太多了,你對自廠一定要把他照顧得好因爲我看很多,你用人工在那裡熬,那個金錢就沒那麼多那怎麼說呢?我們現在都要靠在種機械嘛在種機械的器具裡面,才有辦法解決這個問題,速度才會快你說一般它的住宅裡面,那當然那個種機械都沒辦法進去,都要靠人工嘛"},{"start":537.346,"end":539.228,"text":"所以說你要結合現在全國在志工都非常踴躍去幫忙要怎麼來結合每一次讓他們有建立他們未來他們的經濟處"},{"start":550.336,"end":553.418,"text":"因為這都是非常費時的問題所以我們為大家說要去討論這個問題這可以徹底改觀你說它的中繼屋中繼屋這個速度一定要快你如果說政府部門為大家說要再討論變略的預算也可以討論給民間不管慈濟啊、紅石智慧啊"},{"start":571.372,"end":583.481,"text":"他們的速度也都是很快,我們現在也不分了就是要負責我們的災民,要怎麼來解決還有一點,你說這些種機械,我看他們入境,我本身這裡的資料有2500多台其實我們每一邊的災害都是在種機械,他們來在協助所以說未來他們種機械的問題,也希望說保證可以負責他們解決他們的問題,就是這個"},{"start":599.433,"end":605.978,"text":"停在種機械的問題都長久以來都沒辦法去解決這也是他們透露的心聲所以說這點也拜託補充 但是有辦法 到該關好 感謝委員 我跟委員報告我們這裡有資料 我剛才跟縣主席會計是出動3071山貓的話是1475我要跟委員報告就是說 這裡的志工朋友非常感恩"},{"start":624.491,"end":630.796,"text":"因為他們可以遊樂的地方都在處理但是你如果是累積這裡的土石很多的古老洞的部分大家都是國軍或是慈濟因為慈濟他們動員五千多人那國軍的話動員更多他們都把它運到戰時堆置的地方所以其實是分工啦只不過國軍的分工 他們都在拔煤 在做工因為歷史的時候 我們這裡的產值超人把那些東西"},{"start":647.19,"end":661.005,"text":"把他堆到那個道路上面但是第二天道路又乾淨了為什麼 因為半夜的時候國軍已經出動很多人力跟機具把他先運走所以一方面都到底在處理這方面就是說公家跟樹林的產殖超人都有互相的分工啦"},{"start":665.53,"end":668.612,"text":"所以每次看到我們都感謝產殖超人他們能夠到現場去我所了解就是包括我們的NCDR 還是包括台鐵光復車站家他們每天都會統計人次 因為沒辦法人嘛大概現主席位置大概是50萬人次"},{"start":683.743,"end":710.129,"text":"50萬人次真的是非常的多而且我也看到一個非常正面的部分就是說這些產值超人如果有碰到受災戶他們還會跟受災戶聊天這也是一種療癒的過程我想這個是對台灣來講都是一個非常正向的力量那國外媒體也有報導那另外就是說如果這個產值超人慢慢減少救災部分的話現在我們還有一個部分就是替代役"},{"start":710.849,"end":726.292,"text":"備役替代役我們請花蓮縣政府發動全台灣第一次的備役替代役的動員大概會有240人次那這個部分呢在下一次要處理緊急疏散撤離的兵棋演練或者是說到人家家屋裡面去再協助 比如說家裡有些人行動不方便 還要到廟室的部分我想備役替代役同樣都是花蓮人"},{"start":735.674,"end":760.742,"text":"應該會協助的機會比較大那就不會說讓現在也是非常忙的包括縣政府或是鄉鎮公所仍然非常忙碌在處理一些其他的事所以我們到目前為止行政院的一站式的服務呢包括新聞節目沒在啦健保卡也沒在我們就馬上幫他做處理那這一方面大概就是慢慢慢慢可以讓他恢復正常的生活所以這是我們目前所做的這個部分當然我們到目前為止"},{"start":762.282,"end":767.489,"text":"中央的災害應變中心跟花蓮縣政府還是一級警戒為什麼 因為這裡面的志工人流太多了冰凶時這個地方 花蓮車頭這裡 光復車頭這裡一天只有八百人"},{"start":781.846,"end":798.836,"text":"你如果有下大雨或是有地震因為前上個禮拜有三次到四次以上的地震警報那這個呢也必須要納入疏散撤離的範圍那所以這就是我們目前為止仍然維持一級警戒裡面四個重要因素裡面的第四個非常重要的好謝謝謝謝部長"},{"start":800.512,"end":815.844,"text":"我說這次這個災害,我們的中央部會,大家都是通力合作,合作在我們所在的災民,這點本身非常輕盈,所以也感謝我們所有的志工,跟我們的國賓,在這裡再次感謝,謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":991,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（12時11分）召委、與會同仁。請內政部部長。"],["主席：請內政部劉世芳部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員你好。"],["吳委員琪銘：部長你好。針對花蓮堰塞湖的事件，我看早上很多委員都非常的關心，其實堰塞湖這個事件，我看我們的國軍以及各個社團、民眾，大家都非常的踴躍，都是全力地搶救災情，因為事情已經發生，未來我們要怎麼來解決這個問題？因為這是一個非常嚴重的天災，包括我們的一些警報也好，還是民力的結合，也包括警政的結合，因為你會發現在山區以及偏遠的地方，大概都是老弱婦孺比較多，所以中間這一層的人大部分都在外面工作，可以說很多災難發生時，地方上又沒有辦法即時掌控這一些人員有沒有安全的撤離，這都是非常重要的，尤其臺灣整個山區的居民非常多，所以這是我們未來要去檢討的，看要怎麼來跟這次的堰塞湖事件對應，要怎麼來協助他們災後重建，因為他們的家園損傷都非常嚴重，所以未來包含國土署要規劃他們在那邊的土地還有多少剩餘。未來我們中期的安置計畫，包括透過社宅也好，要怎麼安置這些受災戶，要讓他們可以在那邊更加安身立命，這是最重要的，所以現在不要討論責任是歸屬地方或中央，現在最重要的是要如何來做搶救的工作。尤其我看到很多，包括我選區的一些志工，他們都非常的踴躍，光是我的選區到花蓮搶救的人，差不多超過100臺遊覽車，他們都是當天來回，真的，我們臺灣人真的都非常有愛心！我們未來要怎麼結合山區、偏遠地方，以及堰塞湖的部分，臺灣要去整個盤查還有多少湖面存在未來會崩堤的問題，這才是要永久解決的問題，在這裡請部長回答未來要怎麼樣去規劃。"],["劉部長世芳：感謝吳委員的關心，根據農業部的資料，現在臺灣有兩個堰塞湖，一個就是現在的馬太鞍溪，一個是在新竹，目前馬太鞍溪上面因為水跟土石都已經大量流失，現在他們監測的部分大概是剩下1.7%，所以目前為止它的坡度比較緩，但是我們永遠要預測下一次什麼時候會發生，所以在下一次的汛期之前，可能我們要做很多備變的方式。就我所了解的，經濟部水利署已經針對河堤的部分，2,680公尺有三道不同的程序，一個是夯實的土堤，再來有太空包，還有鼎塊，如果有沖刷下來的話可以擋住，讓下游居住的家屋可以安全。","至於持續監測的部分，農業部也取得日本國土交通省的水位監視器來做處理，但是比較不確定的因素就是大規模崩塌邊坡的不穩定，以及不知道什麼時候還會有另外一個颱風夾帶著大量雨水下來，這個部分農業部都有高度監測當中，同時我們也會請他們跟包括陽明交大、成大、中興或者是臺大這些教授保持聯繫，怕說下一次有這樣子的狀況，這是目前監測的狀況。","收容安置的部分，確實沒有錯，因為有些家屋還沒有完全清淤乾淨，所以就現在我們所了解的，縣市政府收容安置的人數大概還有兩百三十幾位，住在收容安置所或是旅宿，就是行政院或花蓮縣政府所提供一個暫時的地方。現在有幾個部分就是剛剛委員所提到的，那麼多的土石要放哪裡？目前為止，行政院在台糖附近大概有備變了兩塊到三塊土石堆置的地方，但是仍然不夠，現在需要大面積處理的大概是落在農業部，農田上面覆蓋的土石量大概有600萬方左右，非常的多，所以現在農業部正在想辦法看要怎麼樣幫農民解決，未來如果農田要做其他復育工作的話，我們就尊重農業部來幫忙處理。","現在仍然有一部分是環境部在主導，在市區裡面比較多的問題大概就是側溝清溝，有些是跟他們的化糞池或其他下水道連在一起。目前我所知道的，他們清溝的長度預計是30公里，現在清溝的長度大概是20公里，所以季連成政務委員下令，希望在10月18號的時候可以完成第一部分的清溝任務，讓很多人可以回去原來的家園過更正常的生活。針對這1,837戶已經有1,518戶昨天在行政院的一站式服務完成申請登記，每一戶修繕家園大概可以獲得包括賬災基金會的款項，總共有35萬元，讓他們回去可以清掃自己的家屋，讓自己的家屋可以好好的，再回復正常的生活。","對於非常嚴重，也就是我們大家所知道的佛祖街那一帶，總共有89戶，我上次在立法院院會跟院長在回應委員質詢的時候，有說要他們挨家挨戶去查詢，看他們有沒有必須要異地重建，或者是原地重建，我們現在已經有一些資料，如果他需要原地重建或異地重建的話，我們都會協調跟幫忙。如果需要異地重建，目前國土署所找到的地點是在台糖靠近大進國小那一帶，大概是5公頃左右，但是異地重建不一定是遷村，因為遷村是永遠的，可能遷村的時候就要放棄原來已經被沖毀的這個部分。如果他是用中繼屋的方式來要求的話，目前我手頭上的資料有中繼屋需求的人數大概是40戶左右，但是還要再進一步溝通，因為這個都是每一天在與時俱進，在處理當中，以上是我們所知道的，先跟委員報告一下目前的進度。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，謝謝。部長，這次災害中央也全部都動起來，所以我在媒體上也看到部長時常去到那邊關心。遇到這個情形，我們說堆置場淤泥太多了，淤泥太多了，因此堆置場一定要把它建構好，還有我看很多地方用人工在那邊挖，那根本就沒辦法。怎麼說呢？我們現在都要靠這些重機械，這些重機械的器具進去才有辦法解決整個問題，速度才會快，但一般民眾的住宅裡面，當然重機械都沒辦法進去，都要靠人工，現在全國志工都非常踴躍去幫忙他們，所以你要結合志工，看怎麼來結合每一戶，讓他們建立……因為未來要整理房子，這都是非常費時的問題。所以我們有時候要去討論這個問題，才可以澈底解決，但是中繼屋速度一定要快，如果政府部門有時還要透過編列預算，但也可以透過民間，不管慈濟、紅十字會，他們的速度也都很快，我們現在也不分了，就是要替災民想辦法來解決。","還有一點，我看重機械進去，本席這裡的資料有兩千五百多臺，其實我們每一次的災害都是重機械在協助，所以未來重機械的問題，也希望部長可以替他們解決，他們的問題就是重機械停放的問題，長久以來都沒辦法解決，這也是他們吐露的心聲，所以這點也拜託部長想辦法幫忙解決。"],["劉部長世芳：好，感謝委員，我們這裡有資料的，挖土機到現在為止是出動3,701；山貓的話是1,475。我要跟委員報告，我們非常感謝這些志工朋友，因為細緻的地方，都是他們在處理，但是如果是這些累積的土石，因為有很多、好幾噸，大概都是國軍或是慈濟，因為慈濟動員五千多人，而國軍動員更多，他們都運到暫時堆置的地方，所以其實是分工。只不過國軍的分工，他們都在半夜做工，因為白天的時候，這些鏟子超人把東西堆到道路上面，但是第二天道路又乾淨了，為什麼？因為半夜的時候，國軍已經出動很多人力跟機具把它先運走，所以都一起在處理這個部分，政府跟民間這些鏟子超人都有互相分工，每次看到我們都感謝鏟子超人一直去現場幫忙。我所了解的包括我們的NCDR還是臺鐵光復車站，他們每天都會統計人次，因為沒辦法算到人數，到現在為止大概是50萬人次，真的是非常的多。而且我也看到一個非常正面的部分，就是這些鏟子超人如果有碰到受災戶，他們還會跟受災戶聊天，這也是一種療癒的過程，我想對臺灣來講都是非常正向的力量，國外媒體也有報導。","另外，如果鏟子超人慢慢減少，在救災部分現在我們還有備役替代役，我們請花蓮縣政府發動全臺灣第一次備役替代役的動員，大概會有240人次，這個部分在下一次要處理緊急疏散撤離的兵棋演練，或者是到人家家屋裡面再協助細緻的清理時，譬如家裡如果有一些人行動不方便，有需要再幫忙打掃的話，我想備役替代役同樣都是花蓮人，應該會協助的機會比較大。不會讓現在也是非常忙的縣政府或是鄉鎮公所，他們仍然非常忙碌在處理其他的事。","所以到目前為止，行政院的一站式服務，包括身分證不見了、健保卡也不見了，我們就馬上幫他做處理，這一方面大概就慢慢地可以讓他恢復正常的生活，這是我們目前所做的部分。當然到目前為止，中央災害應變中心跟花蓮縣政府還是一級警戒，為什麼？因為裡面的志工人流太多了，平常這個地方──花蓮光復車站這裡，一天只有800人，現在每一天擠進去1萬人、2萬人、3萬人，如果有下大雨或是有地震，因為上個禮拜也有3次、4次以上的地震警報，這也必須要納入疏散撤離的範圍，所以這就是目前為止我們仍然維持一級警戒，四個重要因素中第四個非常重要的因素。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，謝謝部長。我說這次災害，中央部會大家都是通力合作，為了協助災民，這點本席非常肯定，所以也感謝所有的志工跟國軍，在這裡再一次感謝，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝吳琪銘委員。我們中午不休息繼續開會，也跟委員會報告，在林德福委員詢答完之後，我們會處理臨時提案。","現在請林德福委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-3","speakers":["黃建賓","王美惠","張宏陸","蘇巧慧","黃捷","許宇甄","高金素梅","傅崐萁","牛煦庭","李柏毅","張智倫","吳琪銘","林德福","徐欣瑩","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警\n通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利\n部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00001"}}}