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\"委\", \"start\": 694.174, \"end\": 694.194, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 694.194, \"end\": 694.254, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 694.254, \"end\": 694.354, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 694.354, \"end\": 694.394, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 694.394, \"end\": 694.414, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,890 --> 00:00:14,402\n還有這個警政署啊不是那個消防署消署長委員好還有農業部啊這個杜次長請以上三位好那個部長你可以在中間\n\n2\n00:00:24,017 --> 00:00:42,111\n上主席台啊我請問因為根據10月9號行政院災害防救辦公室災害戶員的情形報告花蓮光戶家戶家屋內清一差不多百分之百\n\n3\n00:00:43,243 --> 00:00:51,746\n主要是道路輕於98%學校已經陸陸續續都復課然後根據過往的氣象資料2022、2023以及2024年花蓮10月累計降雨分別為878毫米296.5毫米以及572.5毫米是多雨的季節那\n\n4\n00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:29,976\n馬太安西亞煙澀湖潰壩危機仍然沒有解除還未解除那請問在場你們三位誰可以回答如果再遇到大雨花蓮寬戶鄉累積的雨量這個達到多少毫米就會這個啟動這個撤離的機制\n\n5\n00:01:38,590 --> 00:01:53,353\n是謝謝報告委員依現在的狀況我們調整了如果在24小時之內連續雨量達到200毫米的是會啟動紅色警戒那是否有預留一些足夠撤離作業的時間以利民眾能夠疏散\n\n6\n00:01:53,914 --> 00:02:20,041\n我想這也就是為什麼我們現在最優先要在處理的因為紅色警戒有四個要件第一個是法體的部分有沒有穩定第二個是在河道的其餘部分有沒有做深溝第三個是合體有沒有加高這三項都有在做那最重要的最重要的就是現在的撤離計畫因為現在在花蓮當地其實除了當地的居民之外有很多志工有很多中央各部會在進駐在那邊協助的人員\n\n7\n00:02:21,241 --> 00:02:47,029\n所以撤離計畫是我們現階段要盡速來完成的其實這一次整個潰壩這個潰堤這麼嚴重其實主要就是當初你們當然說有一些事前有去做一些測試上面了解那實際上引流工作都沒有做而且這個多久前\n\n8\n00:02:48,288 --> 00:03:05,055\n我們立法院很多委員就擔心這個事務而且那時候你們就是在搞大惡霸所以說根本就沒有心在這個地方你要是當初有引流我相信不會發生這麼嚴重因為你有引流\n\n9\n00:03:06,255 --> 00:03:23,327\n整個水下陷沒有達到那個程度它就不會造成整個淹涉湖的一個潰壩這是很嚴重的問題委員大家也提到了其實這次並不是因為第一個監測的結果當然有很多的預估的模型\n\n10\n00:03:23,527 --> 00:03:46,041\n你們那個部長說沒有問題啊在當下當下的狀況那這次其實是因為畫家沙颱風帶來大量的雨量然後造成特別是堰塞湖區依照中央氣象署的資料會有大量的雨水所以這次下來就不是一般預估的雨量而是有大量的對啊那你平常本來這個就是你要是有引流出去就不會這麼嚴重嗎\n\n11\n00:03:47,082 --> 00:04:04,981\n引流還是有在做提防有在做但是這次因為颱風大量雨水帶下來的狀況確實是天上帶下來的因為齁災後當然政府資源有限民間民力無窮許多民間力量的匯聚支持災民渡過難關對於投入花蓮\n\n12\n00:04:05,962 --> 00:04:26,621\n救災的官兵包括醫護、志工我想本席也是真的非常的感謝跟敬佩然而中央災害應變中心對於花蓮整個災區的管理志工的安排調度保險在災難發生後沒有立刻來啟動導致謠言四起\n\n13\n00:04:30,149 --> 00:04:42,481\n那破壞整個救災團隊讓人感到遺憾希望內政部未來要一併檢討讓這些救災志工有安全的保障劉部長你的看法呢\n\n14\n00:04:43,564 --> 00:05:06,585\n報告委員其實我們這兩天已經有跟金管會還有財政部已經針對這個志工啊做這個QRCode掃QRCode的時候就有這個平安險的一個保障已經把它列進去這兩天都列進去了其實更令人不捨的是熱心的救災民眾失去了生命挖土機超人林鴻升救災感染\n\n15\n00:05:07,726 --> 00:05:34,762\n他應該是敗血症來身亡那本席是希望內政部積極來研究啟動入中獵池的這個程序以告慰家屬報告委員因為林鴻升先生我們當然非常不捨但是中獵池有中獵池現在的一個入室的部分那我們請衛福部那能不能列入表揚那因為志工服務法是衛福部是不是請次長跟您回應一下\n\n16\n00:05:37,681 --> 00:05:56,678\n有關這部分我會再跟行政院這邊來申請看看我認為這個應該全國的人民都不會反對這麼熱心的一個志工發生這種狀況政府沒有拿出同理心你說叫這些來做志工的人親和一看\n\n17\n00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:10,115\n我認為該做則做你不要說這個一定要怎麼樣規定沒有那個百分之百的規定啦對不對我們這是民意啊你去問10個有9個9都贊成\n\n18\n00:06:12,230 --> 00:06:40,969\n好不好要好好做那個花蓮馬太安溪顏色湖潰壩造成嚴重的災情內政部前部長李鴻元指出台灣當前面臨的都是複合式的災害那已經非單一部會能夠處理呼籲政府要修改災害防救法來設置專責的單位來成立這個防災總署因為這次我看到\n\n19\n00:06:42,490 --> 00:07:10,876\n等於是好幾個單位而且沒有統籌講實在話啦你像那個公兵他們有那麼多的機具那麼多的這個人員沒有發揮到充分來運用他們災害發生的時候能夠做的應該全力都做那是我要成立這個防災總署統一救災的權責此一概念過去在立法院其實也\n\n20\n00:07:11,806 --> 00:07:26,831\n也有討論過啦那花蓮光復鄉災情預警應變及這個救災未來的檢討救責本席請問劉部長你以消防署的看法是不是支持這個防災總署\n\n21\n00:07:31,608 --> 00:07:45,919\n來取代整個中央這個災害應變中心我認為要審慎評估報告委員我剛在回覆其他委員是有提到第一個我們現在消防的這個災害防救體系它是一個因災因而起的那這樣子的\n\n22\n00:07:46,719 --> 00:07:52,763\n前面的有些預警必須要很多專業來幫忙譬如說氣象署他在發布地震或是發布颱風的部分那沒辦法由災防總署來幫忙還有譬如說艷澀湖的監測農業部在幫忙或者是說其他的大型災害或者是生物園的災害必須要衛福部來處理那如果你成立災防總署的部分的話呢他是在\n\n23\n00:08:10,114 --> 00:08:34,973\n應變的時候能不能快速整合所有這方面的資訊然後做出判斷然後減少生命財產的損失那這一部分呢其實在歷次的災害應變從以前的這個921開始他就一直在演變當中那我們也一直在精進那這一部分呢包括中央跟地方都有精進討論的空間我想我們都不排除任何可能因為你不要像這一次一樣\n\n24\n00:08:36,814 --> 00:09:03,986\n這多頭馬車其實外界都有這樣的看法對不對那些志工到底要去給哪一個單位來報到他們要做哪裡對不對你等於是沒有一個統籌嘛那你災害發生的時候就是第一時間最重要因為像台灣地小人籌容易受到一些極端氣候的影響那這個山坡地的災害類型\n\n25\n00:09:06,359 --> 00:09:20,371\n這個將轉變為多元而且災害的規模將遠超過過去歷史的事件面對未來未知的災害可能本席是希望農業部要結合AI大數據的計算以大數據的分析\n\n26\n00:09:21,472 --> 00:09:36,089\n來建立整個災害潛勢圖以疏散避難場所規劃之研究未來會如何與內政部國土署經濟部地礦中心合作以避免類似花蓮關乎這種慘劇再次發生那個次長你有什麼看法\n\n27\n00:09:41,078 --> 00:10:06,624\n是謝謝委員指教應該就是要這樣把所有的資源統合起來一起來就防災救災的事剛剛其實部長講的我意思就是說你要是這個防災總署就是要統籌嘛你災難發生的時候你沒有統籌各司其職每一個單位想法看法都不一樣然後變成多頭馬車所以說變成這種狀況全國人民都看在眼裡啊對不對\n\n28\n00:10:08,144 --> 00:10:21,736\n那其實這個應該本來政府我是希望說那個部長你提出這些看法意見你給立法院一份資料每個委員都都一份資料認為未來應該要怎麼做游部長\n\n29\n00:10:23,091 --> 00:10:49,071\n報告委員我想我不是天才啦但是我會把各方的意見把它收整起來那提供給那個我們的立委來參考那包括如果有修法精進的方案的話我們也必須要研議因為它確實牽涉到不只是各部會恐怕公立公私立協商因為很多人都提到這次的志工的加入以前志工的部分大致上都沒有像這次這麼多人的狀況之下比較不容易處理\n\n30\n00:10:52,173 --> 00:11:14,545\n然後再來就是中央跟地方上面的分工是不是需要再明確那我覺得比較重要就是說我們還是要在各種不同的場合裡面繼續提供給大家危機意識是非常重要你如果沒有準備的話他的危機沒有危機意識的話那當然造成了人命傷亡損失就是比較不是我們能夠預估的範圍之內我希望好好的檢討啦\n\n31\n00:11:15,825 --> 00:11:34,414\n針對未來不要讓災害像這一次變成多頭馬車那其實這些志工真的他們很有愛心那站在政府的角度你應該就是好好的怎麼來檢討以後該怎麼做以最好的方式來做是人民期待的啦謝謝好謝謝林德福委員那我們現在來出\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n890\t14402\t還有這個警政署啊不是那個消防署消署長委員好還有農業部啊這個杜次長請以上三位好那個部長你可以在中間\n24017\t42111\t上主席台啊我請問因為根據10月9號行政院災害防救辦公室災害戶員的情形報告花蓮光戶家戶家屋內清一差不多百分之百\n43243\t51746\t主要是道路輕於98%學校已經陸陸續續都復課然後根據過往的氣象資料2022、2023以及2024年花蓮10月累計降雨分別為878毫米296.5毫米以及572.5毫米是多雨的季節那\n71440\t89976\t馬太安西亞煙澀湖潰壩危機仍然沒有解除還未解除那請問在場你們三位誰可以回答如果再遇到大雨花蓮寬戶鄉累積的雨量這個達到多少毫米就會這個啟動這個撤離的機制\n98590\t113353\t是 謝謝報告委員 依現在的狀況我們調整了如果在24小時之內連續雨量達到200毫米的是會啟動紅色警戒那是否有預留一些足夠撤離作業的時間以利民眾能夠疏散\n113914\t140041\t我想這也就是為什麼我們現在最優先要在處理的因為紅色警戒有四個要件第一個是法體的部分有沒有穩定第二個是在河道的其餘部分有沒有做深溝第三個是合體有沒有加高這三項都有在做那最重要的最重要的就是現在的撤離計畫因為現在在花蓮當地其實除了當地的居民之外有很多志工有很多中央各部會在進駐在那邊協助的人員\n141241\t167029\t所以撤離計畫是我們現階段要盡速來完成的其實這一次整個潰壩這個潰堤這麼嚴重其實主要就是當初你們當然說有一些事前有去做一些測試上面了解那實際上引流工作都沒有做而且這個多久前\n168288\t185055\t我們立法院很多委員就擔心這個事務而且那時候你們就是在搞大惡霸所以說根本就沒有心在這個地方你要是當初有引流我相信不會發生這麼嚴重因為你有引流\n186255\t203327\t整個水下陷沒有達到那個程度它就不會造成整個淹涉湖的一個潰壩這是很嚴重的問題委員大家也提到了其實這次並不是因為第一個監測的結果當然有很多的預估的模型\n203527\t226041\t你們那個部長說沒有問題啊在當下當下的狀況那這次其實是因為畫家沙颱風帶來大量的雨量然後造成特別是堰塞湖區依照中央氣象署的資料會有大量的雨水所以這次下來就不是一般預估的雨量而是有大量的對啊那你平常本來這個就是你要是有引流出去就不會這麼嚴重嗎\n227082\t244981\t引流還是有在做提防有在做但是這次因為颱風大量雨水帶下來的狀況確實是天上帶下來的因為齁災後當然政府資源有限民間民力無窮許多民間力量的匯聚支持災民渡過難關對於投入花蓮\n245962\t266621\t救災的官兵包括醫護、志工我想本席也是真的非常的感謝跟敬佩然而中央災害應變中心對於花蓮整個災區的管理志工的安排調度保險在災難發生後沒有立刻來啟動導致謠言四起\n270149\t282481\t那破壞整個救災團隊讓人感到遺憾希望內政部未來要一併檢討讓這些救災志工有安全的保障 劉部長你的看法呢\n283564\t306585\t報告委員其實我們這兩天已經有跟金管會還有財政部已經針對這個志工啊做這個QR Code掃QR Code的時候就有這個平安險的一個保障已經把它列進去這兩天都列進去了其實更令人不捨的是熱心的救災民眾失去了生命挖土機超人林鴻升救災感染\n307726\t334762\t他應該是敗血症來身亡那本席是希望內政部積極來研究啟動入中獵池的這個程序以告慰家屬報告委員因為林鴻升先生我們當然非常不捨但是中獵池有中獵池現在的一個入室的部分那我們請衛福部那能不能列入表揚那因為志工服務法是衛福部是不是請次長跟您回應一下\n337681\t356678\t有關這部分我會再跟行政院這邊來申請看看我認為這個應該全國的人民都不會反對這麼熱心的一個志工發生這種狀況政府沒有拿出同理心你說叫這些來做志工的人親和一看\n358440\t370115\t我認為該做則做你不要說這個一定要怎麼樣規定沒有那個百分之百的規定啦對不對我們這是民意啊你去問10個有9個9都贊成\n372230\t400969\t好不好要好好做那個花蓮馬太安溪顏色湖潰壩造成嚴重的災情內政部前部長李鴻元指出台灣當前面臨的都是複合式的災害那已經非單一部會能夠處理呼籲政府要修改災害防救法來設置專責的單位來成立這個防災總署因為這次我看到\n402490\t430876\t等於是好幾個單位而且沒有統籌講實在話啦你像那個公兵他們有那麼多的機具那麼多的這個人員沒有發揮到充分來運用他們災害發生的時候能夠做的應該全力都做那是我要成立這個防災總署統一救災的權責此一概念過去在立法院其實也\n431806\t446831\t也有討論過啦那花蓮光復鄉災情預警應變及這個救災未來的檢討救責本席請問劉部長你以消防署的看法是不是支持這個防災總署\n451608\t465919\t來取代整個中央這個災害應變中心我認為要審慎評估報告委員我剛在回覆其他委員是有提到第一個我們現在消防的這個災害防救體系它是一個因災因而起的那這樣子的\n466719\t472763\t前面的有些預警必須要很多專業來幫忙譬如說氣象署他在發布地震或是發布颱風的部分那沒辦法由災防總署來幫忙還有譬如說艷澀湖的監測農業部在幫忙或者是說其他的大型災害或者是生物園的災害必須要衛福部來處理那如果你成立災防總署的部分的話呢他是在\n490114\t514973\t應變的時候能不能快速整合所有這方面的資訊然後做出判斷然後減少生命財產的損失那這一部分呢其實在歷次的災害應變從以前的這個921開始他就一直在演變當中那我們也一直在精進那這一部分呢包括中央跟地方都有精進討論的空間我想我們都不排除任何可能因為你不要像這一次一樣\n516814\t543986\t這多頭馬車其實外界都有這樣的看法對不對那些志工到底要去給哪一個單位來報到他們要做哪裡對不對你等於是沒有一個統籌嘛那你災害發生的時候就是第一時間最重要因為像台灣地小人籌容易受到一些極端氣候的影響那這個山坡地的災害類型\n546359\t560371\t這個將轉變為多元而且災害的規模將遠超過過去歷史的事件面對未來未知的災害可能本席是希望農業部要結合AI大數據的計算以大數據的分析\n561472\t576089\t來建立整個災害潛勢圖以疏散避難場所規劃之研究未來會如何與內政部國土署經濟部地礦中心合作以避免類似花蓮關乎這種慘劇再次發生那個次長你有什麼看法\n581078\t606624\t是謝謝委員指教應該就是要這樣把所有的資源統合起來一起來就防災救災的事剛剛其實部長講的我意思就是說你要是這個防災總署就是要統籌嘛你災難發生的時候你沒有統籌各司其職每一個單位想法看法都不一樣然後變成多頭馬車所以說變成這種狀況全國人民都看在眼裡啊對不對\n608144\t621736\t那其實這個應該本來政府我是希望說那個部長你提出這些看法意見你給立法院一份資料每個委員都都一份資料認為未來應該要怎麼做游部長\n623091\t649071\t報告委員我想我不是天才啦但是我會把各方的意見把它收整起來那提供給那個我們的立委來參考那包括如果有修法精進的方案的話我們也必須要研議因為它確實牽涉到不只是各部會恐怕公立公私立協商因為很多人都提到這次的志工的加入以前志工的部分大致上都沒有像這次這麼多人的狀況之下比較不容易處理\n652173\t674545\t然後再來就是中央跟地方上面的分工是不是需要再明確那我覺得比較重要就是說我們還是要在各種不同的場合裡面繼續提供給大家危機意識是非常重要你如果沒有準備的話他的危機沒有危機意識的話那當然造成了人命傷亡損失就是比較不是我們能夠預估的範圍之內我希望好好的檢討啦\n675825\t694414\t針對未來不要讓災害像這一次變成多頭馬車那其實這些志工真的他們很有愛心那站在政府的角度你應該就是好好的怎麼來檢討以後該怎麼做以最好的方式來做是人民期待的啦謝謝好謝謝林德福委員那我們現在來出\n","txt":"還有這個警政署啊不是那個消防署消署長委員好還有農業部啊這個杜次長請以上三位好那個部長你可以在中間\n上主席台啊我請問因為根據10月9號行政院災害防救辦公室災害戶員的情形報告花蓮光戶家戶家屋內清一差不多百分之百\n主要是道路輕於98%學校已經陸陸續續都復課然後根據過往的氣象資料2022、2023以及2024年花蓮10月累計降雨分別為878毫米296.5毫米以及572.5毫米是多雨的季節那\n馬太安西亞煙澀湖潰壩危機仍然沒有解除還未解除那請問在場你們三位誰可以回答如果再遇到大雨花蓮寬戶鄉累積的雨量這個達到多少毫米就會這個啟動這個撤離的機制\n是 謝謝報告委員 依現在的狀況我們調整了如果在24小時之內連續雨量達到200毫米的是會啟動紅色警戒那是否有預留一些足夠撤離作業的時間以利民眾能夠疏散\n我想這也就是為什麼我們現在最優先要在處理的因為紅色警戒有四個要件第一個是法體的部分有沒有穩定第二個是在河道的其餘部分有沒有做深溝第三個是合體有沒有加高這三項都有在做那最重要的最重要的就是現在的撤離計畫因為現在在花蓮當地其實除了當地的居民之外有很多志工有很多中央各部會在進駐在那邊協助的人員\n所以撤離計畫是我們現階段要盡速來完成的其實這一次整個潰壩這個潰堤這麼嚴重其實主要就是當初你們當然說有一些事前有去做一些測試上面了解那實際上引流工作都沒有做而且這個多久前\n我們立法院很多委員就擔心這個事務而且那時候你們就是在搞大惡霸所以說根本就沒有心在這個地方你要是當初有引流我相信不會發生這麼嚴重因為你有引流\n整個水下陷沒有達到那個程度它就不會造成整個淹涉湖的一個潰壩這是很嚴重的問題委員大家也提到了其實這次並不是因為第一個監測的結果當然有很多的預估的模型\n你們那個部長說沒有問題啊在當下當下的狀況那這次其實是因為畫家沙颱風帶來大量的雨量然後造成特別是堰塞湖區依照中央氣象署的資料會有大量的雨水所以這次下來就不是一般預估的雨量而是有大量的對啊那你平常本來這個就是你要是有引流出去就不會這麼嚴重嗎\n引流還是有在做提防有在做但是這次因為颱風大量雨水帶下來的狀況確實是天上帶下來的因為齁災後當然政府資源有限民間民力無窮許多民間力量的匯聚支持災民渡過難關對於投入花蓮\n救災的官兵包括醫護、志工我想本席也是真的非常的感謝跟敬佩然而中央災害應變中心對於花蓮整個災區的管理志工的安排調度保險在災難發生後沒有立刻來啟動導致謠言四起\n那破壞整個救災團隊讓人感到遺憾希望內政部未來要一併檢討讓這些救災志工有安全的保障 劉部長你的看法呢\n報告委員其實我們這兩天已經有跟金管會還有財政部已經針對這個志工啊做這個QR Code掃QR Code的時候就有這個平安險的一個保障已經把它列進去這兩天都列進去了其實更令人不捨的是熱心的救災民眾失去了生命挖土機超人林鴻升救災感染\n他應該是敗血症來身亡那本席是希望內政部積極來研究啟動入中獵池的這個程序以告慰家屬報告委員因為林鴻升先生我們當然非常不捨但是中獵池有中獵池現在的一個入室的部分那我們請衛福部那能不能列入表揚那因為志工服務法是衛福部是不是請次長跟您回應一下\n有關這部分我會再跟行政院這邊來申請看看我認為這個應該全國的人民都不會反對這麼熱心的一個志工發生這種狀況政府沒有拿出同理心你說叫這些來做志工的人親和一看\n我認為該做則做你不要說這個一定要怎麼樣規定沒有那個百分之百的規定啦對不對我們這是民意啊你去問10個有9個9都贊成\n好不好要好好做那個花蓮馬太安溪顏色湖潰壩造成嚴重的災情內政部前部長李鴻元指出台灣當前面臨的都是複合式的災害那已經非單一部會能夠處理呼籲政府要修改災害防救法來設置專責的單位來成立這個防災總署因為這次我看到\n等於是好幾個單位而且沒有統籌講實在話啦你像那個公兵他們有那麼多的機具那麼多的這個人員沒有發揮到充分來運用他們災害發生的時候能夠做的應該全力都做那是我要成立這個防災總署統一救災的權責此一概念過去在立法院其實也\n也有討論過啦那花蓮光復鄉災情預警應變及這個救災未來的檢討救責本席請問劉部長你以消防署的看法是不是支持這個防災總署\n來取代整個中央這個災害應變中心我認為要審慎評估報告委員我剛在回覆其他委員是有提到第一個我們現在消防的這個災害防救體系它是一個因災因而起的那這樣子的\n前面的有些預警必須要很多專業來幫忙譬如說氣象署他在發布地震或是發布颱風的部分那沒辦法由災防總署來幫忙還有譬如說艷澀湖的監測農業部在幫忙或者是說其他的大型災害或者是生物園的災害必須要衛福部來處理那如果你成立災防總署的部分的話呢他是在\n應變的時候能不能快速整合所有這方面的資訊然後做出判斷然後減少生命財產的損失那這一部分呢其實在歷次的災害應變從以前的這個921開始他就一直在演變當中那我們也一直在精進那這一部分呢包括中央跟地方都有精進討論的空間我想我們都不排除任何可能因為你不要像這一次一樣\n這多頭馬車其實外界都有這樣的看法對不對那些志工到底要去給哪一個單位來報到他們要做哪裡對不對你等於是沒有一個統籌嘛那你災害發生的時候就是第一時間最重要因為像台灣地小人籌容易受到一些極端氣候的影響那這個山坡地的災害類型\n這個將轉變為多元而且災害的規模將遠超過過去歷史的事件面對未來未知的災害可能本席是希望農業部要結合AI大數據的計算以大數據的分析\n來建立整個災害潛勢圖以疏散避難場所規劃之研究未來會如何與內政部國土署經濟部地礦中心合作以避免類似花蓮關乎這種慘劇再次發生那個次長你有什麼看法\n是謝謝委員指教應該就是要這樣把所有的資源統合起來一起來就防災救災的事剛剛其實部長講的我意思就是說你要是這個防災總署就是要統籌嘛你災難發生的時候你沒有統籌各司其職每一個單位想法看法都不一樣然後變成多頭馬車所以說變成這種狀況全國人民都看在眼裡啊對不對\n那其實這個應該本來政府我是希望說那個部長你提出這些看法意見你給立法院一份資料每個委員都都一份資料認為未來應該要怎麼做游部長\n報告委員我想我不是天才啦但是我會把各方的意見把它收整起來那提供給那個我們的立委來參考那包括如果有修法精進的方案的話我們也必須要研議因為它確實牽涉到不只是各部會恐怕公立公私立協商因為很多人都提到這次的志工的加入以前志工的部分大致上都沒有像這次這麼多人的狀況之下比較不容易處理\n然後再來就是中央跟地方上面的分工是不是需要再明確那我覺得比較重要就是說我們還是要在各種不同的場合裡面繼續提供給大家危機意識是非常重要你如果沒有準備的話他的危機沒有危機意識的話那當然造成了人命傷亡損失就是比較不是我們能夠預估的範圍之內我希望好好的檢討啦\n針對未來不要讓災害像這一次變成多頭馬車那其實這些志工真的他們很有愛心那站在政府的角度你應該就是好好的怎麼來檢討以後該怎麼做以最好的方式來做是人民期待的啦謝謝好謝謝林德福委員那我們現在來出\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.890 --> 00:14.402\n還有這個警政署啊不是那個消防署消署長委員好還有農業部啊這個杜次長請以上三位好那個部長你可以在中間\n\n00:24.017 --> 00:42.111\n上主席台啊我請問因為根據10月9號行政院災害防救辦公室災害戶員的情形報告花蓮光戶家戶家屋內清一差不多百分之百\n\n00:43.243 --> 00:51.746\n主要是道路輕於98%學校已經陸陸續續都復課然後根據過往的氣象資料2022、2023以及2024年花蓮10月累計降雨分別為878毫米296.5毫米以及572.5毫米是多雨的季節那\n\n01:11.440 --> 01:29.976\n馬太安西亞煙澀湖潰壩危機仍然沒有解除還未解除那請問在場你們三位誰可以回答如果再遇到大雨花蓮寬戶鄉累積的雨量這個達到多少毫米就會這個啟動這個撤離的機制\n\n01:38.590 --> 01:53.353\n是謝謝報告委員依現在的狀況我們調整了如果在24小時之內連續雨量達到200毫米的是會啟動紅色警戒那是否有預留一些足夠撤離作業的時間以利民眾能夠疏散\n\n01:53.914 --> 02:20.041\n我想這也就是為什麼我們現在最優先要在處理的因為紅色警戒有四個要件第一個是法體的部分有沒有穩定第二個是在河道的其餘部分有沒有做深溝第三個是合體有沒有加高這三項都有在做那最重要的最重要的就是現在的撤離計畫因為現在在花蓮當地其實除了當地的居民之外有很多志工有很多中央各部會在進駐在那邊協助的人員\n\n02:21.241 --> 02:47.029\n所以撤離計畫是我們現階段要盡速來完成的其實這一次整個潰壩這個潰堤這麼嚴重其實主要就是當初你們當然說有一些事前有去做一些測試上面了解那實際上引流工作都沒有做而且這個多久前\n\n02:48.288 --> 03:05.055\n我們立法院很多委員就擔心這個事務而且那時候你們就是在搞大惡霸所以說根本就沒有心在這個地方你要是當初有引流我相信不會發生這麼嚴重因為你有引流\n\n03:06.255 --> 03:23.327\n整個水下陷沒有達到那個程度它就不會造成整個淹涉湖的一個潰壩這是很嚴重的問題委員大家也提到了其實這次並不是因為第一個監測的結果當然有很多的預估的模型\n\n03:23.527 --> 03:46.041\n你們那個部長說沒有問題啊在當下當下的狀況那這次其實是因為畫家沙颱風帶來大量的雨量然後造成特別是堰塞湖區依照中央氣象署的資料會有大量的雨水所以這次下來就不是一般預估的雨量而是有大量的對啊那你平常本來這個就是你要是有引流出去就不會這麼嚴重嗎\n\n03:47.082 --> 04:04.981\n引流還是有在做提防有在做但是這次因為颱風大量雨水帶下來的狀況確實是天上帶下來的因為齁災後當然政府資源有限民間民力無窮許多民間力量的匯聚支持災民渡過難關對於投入花蓮\n\n04:05.962 --> 04:26.621\n救災的官兵包括醫護、志工我想本席也是真的非常的感謝跟敬佩然而中央災害應變中心對於花蓮整個災區的管理志工的安排調度保險在災難發生後沒有立刻來啟動導致謠言四起\n\n04:30.149 --> 04:42.481\n那破壞整個救災團隊讓人感到遺憾希望內政部未來要一併檢討讓這些救災志工有安全的保障劉部長你的看法呢\n\n04:43.564 --> 05:06.585\n報告委員其實我們這兩天已經有跟金管會還有財政部已經針對這個志工啊做這個QRCode掃QRCode的時候就有這個平安險的一個保障已經把它列進去這兩天都列進去了其實更令人不捨的是熱心的救災民眾失去了生命挖土機超人林鴻升救災感染\n\n05:07.726 --> 05:34.762\n他應該是敗血症來身亡那本席是希望內政部積極來研究啟動入中獵池的這個程序以告慰家屬報告委員因為林鴻升先生我們當然非常不捨但是中獵池有中獵池現在的一個入室的部分那我們請衛福部那能不能列入表揚那因為志工服務法是衛福部是不是請次長跟您回應一下\n\n05:37.681 --> 05:56.678\n有關這部分我會再跟行政院這邊來申請看看我認為這個應該全國的人民都不會反對這麼熱心的一個志工發生這種狀況政府沒有拿出同理心你說叫這些來做志工的人親和一看\n\n05:58.440 --> 06:10.115\n我認為該做則做你不要說這個一定要怎麼樣規定沒有那個百分之百的規定啦對不對我們這是民意啊你去問10個有9個9都贊成\n\n06:12.230 --> 06:40.969\n好不好要好好做那個花蓮馬太安溪顏色湖潰壩造成嚴重的災情內政部前部長李鴻元指出台灣當前面臨的都是複合式的災害那已經非單一部會能夠處理呼籲政府要修改災害防救法來設置專責的單位來成立這個防災總署因為這次我看到\n\n06:42.490 --> 07:10.876\n等於是好幾個單位而且沒有統籌講實在話啦你像那個公兵他們有那麼多的機具那麼多的這個人員沒有發揮到充分來運用他們災害發生的時候能夠做的應該全力都做那是我要成立這個防災總署統一救災的權責此一概念過去在立法院其實也\n\n07:11.806 --> 07:26.831\n也有討論過啦那花蓮光復鄉災情預警應變及這個救災未來的檢討救責本席請問劉部長你以消防署的看法是不是支持這個防災總署\n\n07:31.608 --> 07:45.919\n來取代整個中央這個災害應變中心我認為要審慎評估報告委員我剛在回覆其他委員是有提到第一個我們現在消防的這個災害防救體系它是一個因災因而起的那這樣子的\n\n07:46.719 --> 07:52.763\n前面的有些預警必須要很多專業來幫忙譬如說氣象署他在發布地震或是發布颱風的部分那沒辦法由災防總署來幫忙還有譬如說艷澀湖的監測農業部在幫忙或者是說其他的大型災害或者是生物園的災害必須要衛福部來處理那如果你成立災防總署的部分的話呢他是在\n\n08:10.114 --> 08:34.973\n應變的時候能不能快速整合所有這方面的資訊然後做出判斷然後減少生命財產的損失那這一部分呢其實在歷次的災害應變從以前的這個921開始他就一直在演變當中那我們也一直在精進那這一部分呢包括中央跟地方都有精進討論的空間我想我們都不排除任何可能因為你不要像這一次一樣\n\n08:36.814 --> 09:03.986\n這多頭馬車其實外界都有這樣的看法對不對那些志工到底要去給哪一個單位來報到他們要做哪裡對不對你等於是沒有一個統籌嘛那你災害發生的時候就是第一時間最重要因為像台灣地小人籌容易受到一些極端氣候的影響那這個山坡地的災害類型\n\n09:06.359 --> 09:20.371\n這個將轉變為多元而且災害的規模將遠超過過去歷史的事件面對未來未知的災害可能本席是希望農業部要結合AI大數據的計算以大數據的分析\n\n09:21.472 --> 09:36.089\n來建立整個災害潛勢圖以疏散避難場所規劃之研究未來會如何與內政部國土署經濟部地礦中心合作以避免類似花蓮關乎這種慘劇再次發生那個次長你有什麼看法\n\n09:41.078 --> 10:06.624\n是謝謝委員指教應該就是要這樣把所有的資源統合起來一起來就防災救災的事剛剛其實部長講的我意思就是說你要是這個防災總署就是要統籌嘛你災難發生的時候你沒有統籌各司其職每一個單位想法看法都不一樣然後變成多頭馬車所以說變成這種狀況全國人民都看在眼裡啊對不對\n\n10:08.144 --> 10:21.736\n那其實這個應該本來政府我是希望說那個部長你提出這些看法意見你給立法院一份資料每個委員都都一份資料認為未來應該要怎麼做游部長\n\n10:23.091 --> 10:49.071\n報告委員我想我不是天才啦但是我會把各方的意見把它收整起來那提供給那個我們的立委來參考那包括如果有修法精進的方案的話我們也必須要研議因為它確實牽涉到不只是各部會恐怕公立公私立協商因為很多人都提到這次的志工的加入以前志工的部分大致上都沒有像這次這麼多人的狀況之下比較不容易處理\n\n10:52.173 --> 11:14.545\n然後再來就是中央跟地方上面的分工是不是需要再明確那我覺得比較重要就是說我們還是要在各種不同的場合裡面繼續提供給大家危機意識是非常重要你如果沒有準備的話他的危機沒有危機意識的話那當然造成了人命傷亡損失就是比較不是我們能夠預估的範圍之內我希望好好的檢討啦\n\n11:15.825 --> 11:34.414\n針對未來不要讓災害像這一次變成多頭馬車那其實這些志工真的他們很有愛心那站在政府的角度你應該就是好好的怎麼來檢討以後該怎麼做以最好的方式來做是人民期待的啦謝謝好謝謝林德福委員那我們現在來出\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.89,"end":14.402,"text":"還有這個警政署啊不是那個消防署消署長委員好還有農業部啊這個杜次長請以上三位好那個部長你可以在中間"},{"start":24.017,"end":42.111,"text":"上主席台啊我請問因為根據10月9號行政院災害防救辦公室災害戶員的情形報告花蓮光戶家戶家屋內清一差不多百分之百"},{"start":43.243,"end":51.746,"text":"主要是道路輕於98%學校已經陸陸續續都復課然後根據過往的氣象資料2022、2023以及2024年花蓮10月累計降雨分別為878毫米296.5毫米以及572.5毫米是多雨的季節那"},{"start":71.44,"end":89.976,"text":"馬太安西亞煙澀湖潰壩危機仍然沒有解除還未解除那請問在場你們三位誰可以回答如果再遇到大雨花蓮寬戶鄉累積的雨量這個達到多少毫米就會這個啟動這個撤離的機制"},{"start":98.59,"end":113.353,"text":"是 謝謝報告委員 依現在的狀況我們調整了如果在24小時之內連續雨量達到200毫米的是會啟動紅色警戒那是否有預留一些足夠撤離作業的時間以利民眾能夠疏散"},{"start":113.914,"end":140.041,"text":"我想這也就是為什麼我們現在最優先要在處理的因為紅色警戒有四個要件第一個是法體的部分有沒有穩定第二個是在河道的其餘部分有沒有做深溝第三個是合體有沒有加高這三項都有在做那最重要的最重要的就是現在的撤離計畫因為現在在花蓮當地其實除了當地的居民之外有很多志工有很多中央各部會在進駐在那邊協助的人員"},{"start":141.241,"end":167.029,"text":"所以撤離計畫是我們現階段要盡速來完成的其實這一次整個潰壩這個潰堤這麼嚴重其實主要就是當初你們當然說有一些事前有去做一些測試上面了解那實際上引流工作都沒有做而且這個多久前"},{"start":168.288,"end":185.055,"text":"我們立法院很多委員就擔心這個事務而且那時候你們就是在搞大惡霸所以說根本就沒有心在這個地方你要是當初有引流我相信不會發生這麼嚴重因為你有引流"},{"start":186.255,"end":203.327,"text":"整個水下陷沒有達到那個程度它就不會造成整個淹涉湖的一個潰壩這是很嚴重的問題委員大家也提到了其實這次並不是因為第一個監測的結果當然有很多的預估的模型"},{"start":203.527,"end":226.041,"text":"你們那個部長說沒有問題啊在當下當下的狀況那這次其實是因為畫家沙颱風帶來大量的雨量然後造成特別是堰塞湖區依照中央氣象署的資料會有大量的雨水所以這次下來就不是一般預估的雨量而是有大量的對啊那你平常本來這個就是你要是有引流出去就不會這麼嚴重嗎"},{"start":227.082,"end":244.981,"text":"引流還是有在做提防有在做但是這次因為颱風大量雨水帶下來的狀況確實是天上帶下來的因為齁災後當然政府資源有限民間民力無窮許多民間力量的匯聚支持災民渡過難關對於投入花蓮"},{"start":245.962,"end":266.621,"text":"救災的官兵包括醫護、志工我想本席也是真的非常的感謝跟敬佩然而中央災害應變中心對於花蓮整個災區的管理志工的安排調度保險在災難發生後沒有立刻來啟動導致謠言四起"},{"start":270.149,"end":282.481,"text":"那破壞整個救災團隊讓人感到遺憾希望內政部未來要一併檢討讓這些救災志工有安全的保障 劉部長你的看法呢"},{"start":283.564,"end":306.585,"text":"報告委員其實我們這兩天已經有跟金管會還有財政部已經針對這個志工啊做這個QR Code掃QR Code的時候就有這個平安險的一個保障已經把它列進去這兩天都列進去了其實更令人不捨的是熱心的救災民眾失去了生命挖土機超人林鴻升救災感染"},{"start":307.726,"end":334.762,"text":"他應該是敗血症來身亡那本席是希望內政部積極來研究啟動入中獵池的這個程序以告慰家屬報告委員因為林鴻升先生我們當然非常不捨但是中獵池有中獵池現在的一個入室的部分那我們請衛福部那能不能列入表揚那因為志工服務法是衛福部是不是請次長跟您回應一下"},{"start":337.681,"end":356.678,"text":"有關這部分我會再跟行政院這邊來申請看看我認為這個應該全國的人民都不會反對這麼熱心的一個志工發生這種狀況政府沒有拿出同理心你說叫這些來做志工的人親和一看"},{"start":358.44,"end":370.115,"text":"我認為該做則做你不要說這個一定要怎麼樣規定沒有那個百分之百的規定啦對不對我們這是民意啊你去問10個有9個9都贊成"},{"start":372.23,"end":400.969,"text":"好不好要好好做那個花蓮馬太安溪顏色湖潰壩造成嚴重的災情內政部前部長李鴻元指出台灣當前面臨的都是複合式的災害那已經非單一部會能夠處理呼籲政府要修改災害防救法來設置專責的單位來成立這個防災總署因為這次我看到"},{"start":402.49,"end":430.876,"text":"等於是好幾個單位而且沒有統籌講實在話啦你像那個公兵他們有那麼多的機具那麼多的這個人員沒有發揮到充分來運用他們災害發生的時候能夠做的應該全力都做那是我要成立這個防災總署統一救災的權責此一概念過去在立法院其實也"},{"start":431.806,"end":446.831,"text":"也有討論過啦那花蓮光復鄉災情預警應變及這個救災未來的檢討救責本席請問劉部長你以消防署的看法是不是支持這個防災總署"},{"start":451.608,"end":465.919,"text":"來取代整個中央這個災害應變中心我認為要審慎評估報告委員我剛在回覆其他委員是有提到第一個我們現在消防的這個災害防救體系它是一個因災因而起的那這樣子的"},{"start":466.719,"end":472.763,"text":"前面的有些預警必須要很多專業來幫忙譬如說氣象署他在發布地震或是發布颱風的部分那沒辦法由災防總署來幫忙還有譬如說艷澀湖的監測農業部在幫忙或者是說其他的大型災害或者是生物園的災害必須要衛福部來處理那如果你成立災防總署的部分的話呢他是在"},{"start":490.114,"end":514.973,"text":"應變的時候能不能快速整合所有這方面的資訊然後做出判斷然後減少生命財產的損失那這一部分呢其實在歷次的災害應變從以前的這個921開始他就一直在演變當中那我們也一直在精進那這一部分呢包括中央跟地方都有精進討論的空間我想我們都不排除任何可能因為你不要像這一次一樣"},{"start":516.814,"end":543.986,"text":"這多頭馬車其實外界都有這樣的看法對不對那些志工到底要去給哪一個單位來報到他們要做哪裡對不對你等於是沒有一個統籌嘛那你災害發生的時候就是第一時間最重要因為像台灣地小人籌容易受到一些極端氣候的影響那這個山坡地的災害類型"},{"start":546.359,"end":560.371,"text":"這個將轉變為多元而且災害的規模將遠超過過去歷史的事件面對未來未知的災害可能本席是希望農業部要結合AI大數據的計算以大數據的分析"},{"start":561.472,"end":576.089,"text":"來建立整個災害潛勢圖以疏散避難場所規劃之研究未來會如何與內政部國土署經濟部地礦中心合作以避免類似花蓮關乎這種慘劇再次發生那個次長你有什麼看法"},{"start":581.078,"end":606.624,"text":"是謝謝委員指教應該就是要這樣把所有的資源統合起來一起來就防災救災的事剛剛其實部長講的我意思就是說你要是這個防災總署就是要統籌嘛你災難發生的時候你沒有統籌各司其職每一個單位想法看法都不一樣然後變成多頭馬車所以說變成這種狀況全國人民都看在眼裡啊對不對"},{"start":608.144,"end":621.736,"text":"那其實這個應該本來政府我是希望說那個部長你提出這些看法意見你給立法院一份資料每個委員都都一份資料認為未來應該要怎麼做游部長"},{"start":623.091,"end":649.071,"text":"報告委員我想我不是天才啦但是我會把各方的意見把它收整起來那提供給那個我們的立委來參考那包括如果有修法精進的方案的話我們也必須要研議因為它確實牽涉到不只是各部會恐怕公立公私立協商因為很多人都提到這次的志工的加入以前志工的部分大致上都沒有像這次這麼多人的狀況之下比較不容易處理"},{"start":652.173,"end":674.545,"text":"然後再來就是中央跟地方上面的分工是不是需要再明確那我覺得比較重要就是說我們還是要在各種不同的場合裡面繼續提供給大家危機意識是非常重要你如果沒有準備的話他的危機沒有危機意識的話那當然造成了人命傷亡損失就是比較不是我們能夠預估的範圍之內我希望好好的檢討啦"},{"start":675.825,"end":694.414,"text":"針對未來不要讓災害像這一次變成多頭馬車那其實這些志工真的他們很有愛心那站在政府的角度你應該就是好好的怎麼來檢討以後該怎麼做以最好的方式來做是人民期待的啦謝謝好謝謝林德福委員那我們現在來出"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1009,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（12時25分）謝謝主席。請內政部劉部長、消防署蕭署長，還有農業部杜次長。"],["主席：劉部長、蕭署長、杜次長，請以上三位。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["林委員德福：部長，請問根據10月9號行政院災害防救辦公室災害復原的情形報告，花蓮光復家屋內清淤差不多100%，主要道路清淤98%，學校已經陸陸續續都復課。根據過往的氣象資料，2022、2023以及2024年花蓮10月累計降雨分別為878毫米、296.5毫米以及572.5毫米，是多雨的季節，馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩危機仍然未解除，請問在場三位誰可以回答，如果再遇到大雨，花蓮光復鄉累積的雨量達到多少毫米就會啟動撤離的機制？"],["杜次長文珍：報告委員，依現在的狀況，我們調整了如果在24小時之內，連續雨量達到200毫米會啟動紅色警戒，或是有地震……"],["林委員德福：是否有預留一些足夠撤離作業的時間，以利民眾能夠疏散？"],["杜次長文珍：這也就是為什麼我們現在最優先要處理的，因為紅色警戒有四個要件，第一個是壩體的部分有沒有穩定；第二個是在河道的清淤部分有沒有做深溝；第三個是河堤有沒有加高，這三項都有在做。最重要的就是現在的撤離計畫，因為現在在花蓮當地，其實除了當地的居民之外，有很多志工、有很多中央各部會進駐在那邊協助的人員，所以撤離計畫是我們現階段要儘速來完成的。"],["林委員德福：其實這一次整個潰壩、潰堤這麼嚴重，主要是當初……你們當然說事前有去做一些測試，去了解，實際上引流工作都沒有做，而且這件事在不久前，我們立法院很多委員就在擔心這個事，但那時候你們就是在搞大惡罷，所以根本就沒有心在這個地方，你要是當初有引流，我相信不會這麼嚴重。雖然說它巨大，但如果有引流，整個水位沒有達到那個程度，它就不會造成整個堰塞湖的潰壩，這是很嚴重的問題耶！"],["杜次長文珍：是。委員大概也提到了，其實這次並不是因為……第一個，監測的結果當然有很多預估模型……"],["林委員德福：你們部長說沒有問題，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：在當下的狀況。這次其實是因為樺加沙颱風帶來大量雨量，造成堰塞湖區……依照中央氣象署的資料來看，會有大量的雨水，所以這次下來的就不是一般預估的雨量，而是有大量的水、泥沙都帶下來……"],["林委員德福：對，平常要是有引流出去，就不會這麼嚴重！"],["杜次長文珍：引流還是有在做，堤防也有在做，但這次因為颱風大量雨水帶下來的狀況，確實是天上帶下來的狀況。"],["林委員德福：災後政府資源有限，但民間民力無窮，許多民間力量的匯聚支持災民渡過難關。對於投入花蓮救災的官兵，包括醫護、志工，本席真的非常感謝跟敬佩！然而中央災害應變中心對於花蓮整個災區的管理、志工的安排、調度、保險，在災難發生後並沒有立刻啟動，導致謠言四起，破壞整個救災團隊，讓人感到遺憾。我希望內政部未來要一併檢討，讓這些救災志工有安全的保障。劉部長，你的看法呢？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，其實我們這兩天已經跟金管會、還有財政部合作，讓志工掃QR Code就可以保平安險的保障，這已經把它列進去，這兩天都列進去了。"],["林委員德福：更令人不捨的是，熱心的救災民眾失去了生命──挖土機超人林鴻森救災感染敗血症身亡！本席希望內政部能積極研究並啟動入祀忠烈祠的程序，以告慰家屬，你的看法呢？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，對林鴻森先生一事我們當然非常不捨，但忠烈祠有忠烈祠入祀的規定，所以我們請衛福部看看能不能列入表揚？因為志工服務法是衛福部主管，是不是請次長跟您回應一下？"],["林委員德福：來，可以。"],["莊次長人祥：有關這部分我會再跟行政院申請看看。"],["林委員德福：我認為全國人民應該都不會反對！這麼熱心的一個志工發生這種狀況，政府若沒有拿出同理心，那麼叫這些做志工的人情何以堪？我認為該做則做，不能說有怎麼樣規定！沒有百分之百的規定，對不對？這是民意，你去問，十個有九個都贊成，好不好？要好好做。","花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩造成嚴重的災情，內政部前部長李鴻源指出，臺灣當前所面臨的都是複合式的災害，已非單一部會能夠處理！呼籲政府要修改災害防救法，設置專責單位、成立防災總署。像這一次涉及好幾個單位，而且沒有統籌，講實在話，像工兵有那麼多機具、那麼多人員，卻沒有發揮作用充分運用。災害發生的時候能夠做的應該都要全力做，至於是否成立防災總署，統一救災權責？此一概念過去在立法院其實也有討論過。以花蓮光復鄉災情預警應變及救災、未來的檢討究責來說，本席請問劉部長，你與消防署是不是支持成立防災總署來取代中央災害應變中心？你的看法呢？"],["劉部長世芳：我認為要審慎評估。報告委員，我剛剛在回復其他委員時有提到，第一個，現在消防災害防救體系是一個因災因而起的，故前面有些預警必須要有很多專業來幫忙，譬如氣象署發布地震或發布颱風警報，並沒辦法由災防總署幫忙。譬如堰塞湖的監測由農業部在幫忙，或者是其他的大型災害，或者是生物源的災害，必須要由衛福部來處理。如果成立災防總署的話，它在應變的時候能不能快速整合所有這方面的資訊，然後做出判斷、減少生命財產的損失？就這部分來說，其實歷次的災害應變，從以前的九二一開始，就一直在演變當中，我們也一直在精進。這部分包括中央跟地方都有精進討論的空間，我們不排除任何可能。"],["林委員德福：不要像這次一樣多頭馬車，其實外界都有這樣的看法，對不對？像志工到底要向哪個單位報到？他們要做哪裡？等於是沒有統籌！災害發生時第一時間最重要，畢竟臺灣地小人稠，容易受到極端氣候的影響，且山坡地的災害類型將轉變為多元，災害規模將遠超過過去歷史的事件！面對未來未知的災害可能，本席希望農業部要結合AI大數據的計算，以大數據的分析來建立整個災害潛勢圖與疏散避難場所規劃之研究，特別是未來會如何與內政部國土署、經濟部地礦中心合作，以避免類似花蓮光復鄉的慘劇再次發生？次長，你有什麼看法？"],["杜次長文珍：是，謝謝委員指教。應該就是要像這樣把所有的資源統合起來，一起來從事防災救災的事情。"],["林委員德福：以剛剛部長講的……我意思是，防災總署就是負責統籌，當災害發生的時候，若沒有統籌，大家只是各司其職，每一個單位想法、看法都不一樣，就會變成多頭馬車。其實這種狀況全國人民都看在眼裡，對不對？我希望部長能提出看法意見，給立法院一份資料，而且每個委員都要有一份資料，認為未來應該要怎麼做？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我不是天才，但是我會把各方的意見蒐整起來，提供給立委參考。如有修法精進方案的話，我們也必須研議，因為它牽涉的不只是各部會，還包括公私力協商，譬如很多人都提到這次志工的加入。以前志工並不像這一次這麼多人，比較不容易處理……"],["林委員德福：就是因為災害太嚴重，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對，再來就是中央跟地方的分工是不是需要再明確？我覺得比較重要的是，我們還是要在各種不同的場合裡繼續告知大家，危機意識非常重要！如果沒有準備、沒有危機意識，那麼所造成的人命傷亡損失就比較不是我們能預估的範圍。"],["林委員德福：我希望能好好檢討，未來不要在災害處理上像這次變成多頭馬車！這些志工真的很有愛心，但站在政府的角度就應該好好檢討，看以後該怎麼做，並以最好的方式來做，這是人民所期待的。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林德福委員。","我們現在來處理臨時提案，總共有四案，請宣讀。","一、","本（2025）年9月23日，花蓮縣馬太鞍溪發生堰塞湖溢流，洪水沖破光復鄉市區堤防之情事，造成花蓮縣光復鄉、萬榮鄉、鳳林鄉重大災情。無論第一時間之救災、搶災，亦或災後之重建，除政府及外界協助，災民亦有自救之需求。為使受災民眾及其親屬能於災害發生後進行家園重建復原，請行政院研議訂定「災後復原假」及相關配套措施。","提案人：蘇巧慧　　李柏毅　　黃　捷　　張宏陸　　吳琪銘　　王美惠　　鄭天財Sra Kacaw","二、","本（2025）年9月23日，花蓮縣馬太鞍溪發生堰塞湖溢流，洪水沖破光復鄉市區堤防之情事，造成人命傷亡。因災害即時告警機制不足，致使部分民眾未能於洪水來襲時即時避難，緊急疏散警報之內容、樣式、方法及其發布時機顯有再精進之空間。請行政院研議精進緊急疏散警報相關機制，俾利緊急疏散作業之進行。","提案人：蘇巧慧　　李柏毅　　黃　捷　　張宏陸","吳琪銘　　王美惠　　","三、","本（2025）年9月，花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖溢流災害，大量泥流灌進下游光復鄉市區，造成當地民眾財產、家園及生活重大損失，為協助重建家園，全國熱心民眾自主遠赴光復鄉協助清淤救災，遺憾的是，救災志工林鴻森先生不幸因傷口感染導致敗血症離世，感佩其救災心切、奮不顧身，義行可風，典型足式，爰建請內政部會同衛生福利部依相關法令呈請總統褒揚，並研議入祀忠烈祠，以供國人矜式。","提案人：蘇巧慧　　李柏毅　　黃　捷　　王美惠","張宏陸　　吳琪銘","四、","案由：鑑於重大災害或突發事件發生時，現行災害警訊傳播系統存在「傳播速度分級延宕」、「非單一標準語文限制」及「觸及範圍不足」等結構性缺陷，嚴重影響新住民、外籍人士、觀光客等多元族群的生命安全，亦不符現代化國家治理對緊急風險溝通（Emergency Risk Communication, ERC）之效率要求。","爰建請行政院邀集相關部會，於一個月內研議：","1.將細胞廣播（Cell Broadcast Service, CBS）提升為所有重大災害、緊急事故強制性、無差別警訊通報手段。","2.建立中央層級之「標準化多語風險溝通模板」（Standardized Multilingual Risk Communication Templates），至少涵蓋我國新住民主要來源國語言及通用語言（如英語、日語等），並強制要求訊息內容納入地理位置、風險性質及明確應變指令。","並將研議成果與具體實施進度，向立法院內政委員會提出書面報告。是否有當？敬請公決。","說明：","I.治理迫切性與學術基礎：緊急風險溝通的當代挑戰","緊急風險溝通（ERC）的黃金原則是「速度、準確、一致性與可及性（Speed, Accuracy, Consistency, and Accessibility）」。在瞬息萬變的災害現場，時間延遲等同於生命風險的增加。現行災害警報系統雖然多元，但仍仰賴如簡訊、網路推播或電視跑馬燈等**「分層傳播」機制，此機制無法確保警訊傳播的即時性與無差別性**。","細胞廣播（CBS）是國際公認且技術成熟的零延遲、廣域、免付費、無須App的強制性推播技術，其特點是「訊號優先級最高」，能直接利用電信基地台將訊息推送到特定區域內所有支援裝置上。將其列為首層（Primary）強制通報手段，是符合國際趨勢（如美國的WEA、日本的J-Alert）與「以人為本」治理原則的迫切需求。這不僅是技術升級，更是風險治理哲學的根本轉變，由「等待民眾接收」轉向「主動觸及」。","II.實務操作與民眾關切：多語傳播與觸及率優化","台灣已是多元社會，新住民、移工、外籍專業人士及國際觀光客人數眾多。當前警訊系統多以中文為主，缺乏標準化、即時的多語種翻譯機制。學術研究指出，警報訊息的「認知可讀性（Cognitive Readability）」與「文化適切性（Cultural Appropriateness）」是決定民眾是否能有效應變的關鍵。當警報訊息僅以單一語文傳遞時，將使數十萬非華語人口在緊急狀態下成為「資訊孤兒（Information Pariahs）」，這不僅是人道問題，更是國家治理在緊急狀態下對特定群體「應盡保護責任（Duty to Protect）」的嚴重缺失。","建立「標準化多語風險溝通模板」可確保：","1.訊息一致性與準確性：預先翻譯並標準化的模板，能消除臨時翻譯錯誤、避免在緊急時刻因人為疏失造成訊息混亂。","2.治理平等性：確保所有居住或停留於國境內的人民，不論其國籍或母語，皆能及時獲得生存所需的緊急資訊，體現國家治理的普世價值。","提案人：徐欣瑩　　牛煦庭　　高金素梅　鄭天財Sra Kacaw　　　"],["主席：針對第一案到第四案，請問大家有沒有意見？（無）沒有意見的話，第一案到第四案就照案通過。","接下來我們繼續開會，請徐欣瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-3","speakers":["黃建賓","王美惠","張宏陸","蘇巧慧","黃捷","許宇甄","高金素梅","傅崐萁","牛煦庭","李柏毅","張智倫","吳琪銘","林德福","徐欣瑩","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警\n通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利\n部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00001"}}}