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0.918}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 242.189, \"end\": 242.389, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 242.389, \"end\": 242.589, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 242.589, \"end\": 242.689, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 242.689, \"end\": 242.829, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 242.829, \"end\": 242.949, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"釋\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 242.949, \"end\": 242.969, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 242.969, \"end\": 243.129, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 243.129, \"end\": 243.249, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"圖\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 243.249, \"end\": 243.309, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"S\", \"start\": 243.309, \"end\": 243.329, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 243.329, \"end\": 243.589, 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要不要衝一排大家都很擔心會發生一樣的事情因為我相信這件事情對國人都產生特別是東部的民眾產生很大很大的陰影那我想這邊再請市長來回應\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 301.724, \"end\": 301.864, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 301.864, \"end\": 301.984, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 301.984, \"end\": 302.104, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 302.104, \"end\": 302.204, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 302.204, \"end\": 302.324, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 302.324, \"end\": 302.985, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 302.985, \"end\": 303.365, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 303.365, \"end\": 304.205, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 304.205, \"end\": 304.325, \"score\": 0.67}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 304.325, \"end\": 304.445, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"東\"}, 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00:00:06,746\n謝謝主席主席我們有請內政部的部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:15,222 --> 00:00:43,132\n部長這次花蓮馬太安溪驗射物的這個潰壩事件造成19人的死亡這我想這對全體國人都是一個非常非常沉重的這個傷痛在這邊我們也感謝所有第一線救災的人員跟我們的志工那目前我們這個救災跟重建的進度都還在持續的進行當中但是我們想事發至今已經將近了20天那許多國人心中還是充滿了許多的疑問就是說\n\n3\n00:00:44,552 --> 00:01:09,079\n究竟到底是為什麼會造成今天這麼嚴重的災害那到底在各項的緩解當中我們出了什麼樣的問題那因此本席今天會安排今天的議程就是希望各部會能夠一起在我們立法院清楚的跟我們國人來報告我想只有釐清問題才能夠找到改善的方法我想說我們就是希望作為未來我們政府防災的一些寶貴的經驗我們能夠強化\n\n4\n00:01:11,141 --> 00:01:33,087\n我們全災害應變的能力我想這個才是符合賴總統所說的這個韌性社會我想針對這一次驗射虎潰壩事件本席認為我們必須從源頭驗射虎的監測處理開始來討論再來就是我們災害的預警通報然後疏散的機制最後是我們災後復原重建\n\n5\n00:01:33,827 --> 00:01:50,447\n這就是為什麼本期這次將這次的主題專報的主題分為這幾項我們就是不希望我們只顧著去究責某一個特定的環節甚至是某一個單位某一個機關然後最後變成一場卸責大會要面對災害防災絕對勝於救災\n\n6\n00:01:52,574 --> 00:02:07,881\n那我想能夠提早的發現潛在的災害的風險來做好妥善這個防災的規劃齁盡力把災害降到最低我相信這筆數讓我們救災的補充在這方面的借機務又比較重要了齁那我想接下來我想要請農業部次長是朝偉\n\n7\n00:02:16,181 --> 00:02:41,344\n市長根據我們農業部的報告農業部針對這次驗射虎的事件有列出的時間軸就從7月底開始確認有驗射虎的存在然後接下來就是進行多次的會議還有災害風險評估但是從這一次的經驗我們明顯的發現到計畫絕對趕不上變化尤其是在現在的極端氣候之下我們東部地區又常發生這個地震頻繁然後\n\n8\n00:02:41,823 --> 00:03:09,161\n一次大一次地震或是一場大雨就可能把原本大家規劃好評估好的事情全部都推翻那加上這次菸涉湖涉及到的這個阻亂機關不只是單一個單位我們中央必須要痛定思痛來強化各單位之間的聯繫我們資訊的共享還有通報機制我相信呃市長也非常了解這個過程我找真的問題哦那因此真本席提出兩點的建議第一個就是說\n\n9\n00:03:10,041 --> 00:03:38,017\n強化跨部會的這個驗射壺潛勢監測平台那本席知道我們農業部目前一個叫國有林防災應變及驗射壺監測系統但實際上我們去網路上看我們去網站上看它比較像是會診各單位的這個會議紀錄的一個地方那農業部應該要更整個更多的跨部會的這個即時的資訊包括我們農業部的這個邊波的穩定系統啊然後航車的圖像還有水利署的水利署這個\n\n10\n00:03:39,141 --> 00:04:03,609\n河川監測資訊等等嘛我們可以透過我們這個AI影像來判讀監測我們地形的變化然後提前來辨識我們高風險這個地段讓不管是我們中央也好地方政府也好甚至我們當地的民眾都可以一目了然然後上這個平台能夠有效的即刻掌握到我們資訊那第二個第二點的建議就是我們社會中央解釋應用社會風險地圖應變的SOP\n\n11\n00:04:06,857 --> 00:04:22,648\n目前我們之內有土石柳還有河川做潛勢風險的這個地圖以及分級警戒應變機制那但針對我們這間社會這樣子複合性的這些災害未來應該有更明確更專屬的風險地圖以及不同的這風險應變機制才對\n\n12\n00:04:24,537 --> 00:04:45,562\n那這當中我們涉及到的這個資訊整合的管道絕對不會是單一個地方政府他有能力做到那我們專門一定要扛起責任這真的要跨部會來一起來合作那針對菸攝乎的這個事件界內風險之後我們在每一次的地震或風災過後我們就要針對高風險地區再做一次的評估再做一次的評估\n\n13\n00:04:46,328 --> 00:04:58,579\n那避免未來的事情將會發生像各位應該很清楚知道0403之後整個東部的狀況他越來越難找我所以他即使去變更這個是很重要的那你能夠了解到\n\n14\n00:05:01,724 --> 00:05:20,794\n或是他是在台東發現我們該怎麼辦其實台東的鄉親也很擔心我們在這次下鄉的時候每個都在講說我們在家裡很累要不要衝一排大家都很擔心會發生一樣的事情因為我相信這件事情對國人都產生特別是東部的民眾產生很大很大的陰影那我想這邊再請市長來回應\n\n15\n00:05:22,694 --> 00:05:40,112\n好非常謝謝召委兩個提醒也是提問啦我想就像您所說的其實在整個氣候變遷加劇的狀況之下所有的災害其實都會是複合性的而且不是單一點的那我們現在要做的其實就是把這些資訊第二要整合起來\n\n16\n00:05:40,732 --> 00:06:07,446\n所以刚刚提到的不管是这个浅市区的监测平台不是只有农业部也包括经济部甚至包括我们的NCDR科技防灾中心还甚至我们科技国科会还有各个专家其实这是一个团队那也许有人手上有这部分资料有人有那部分资料一定要统合起来看才是一个完整的这个风险地图而且这个一定要随时做所以我想我们不管是卫星资料航拍资料\n\n17\n00:06:08,246 --> 00:06:29,888\n無人機資料或是甚至最近我們也找了那個經濟部那個地礦中心他們有長期的監測資料包括礦產整個的變形我想這些資料都統合起來才是我們將來在防災也好有更好的準備那老實講真的不敢講說人定會勝天因為在什麼狀況之下我們真的不知道我們只能希望說\n\n18\n00:06:31,189 --> 00:06:47,583\n我們希望有更好的準備所以剛剛提到的不管是在平台也好在救災的SOP還好應處的準則或甚至在演練我想這個必須在一次又一次的操作中讓大家知道說其實要有準備\n\n19\n00:06:48,820 --> 00:07:11,193\n那其實我們能夠有更好的結果如果我們大家能夠一起把這件事情再做得更完善一點不管手冊也好SOP也好更精準的預先溝通或者是能夠提早做準備寧可及早疏散就是預防性的疏散我們也不願意見到有任何一個人的損失我想這次應該在一次一次當中我們要學習到的\n\n20\n00:07:11,953 --> 00:07:31,948\n市長我們希望能夠接受這件事情之後發現到整個未來應應整個極端氣候我們該怎麼去面對特別是跨國的合作然後跟地方政府合作我們不希望這樣的憾事再次發生那特別也都知道像這是像邊鄉地區他原本就是在資源缺乏然後人口老化的情況之下\n\n21\n00:07:32,388 --> 00:07:51,724\n他們根本沒有能力根本沒有能力應付這麼大的災害那接下來我想要請我們這個請教這個內政部的部長保定這針對這次驗射虎這個災害事件內政部作為災害防救中央主管單位我想他絕對有必要的責任針對災害發生後\n\n22\n00:07:53,035 --> 00:08:08,676\n各個環節進行全面性的檢討我想不管是中央或地方都一樣我們就是好好的釐清問題才能夠解決問題啦齁那趕快本身就提出兩個建議第一個就是說針對目前的這個災害防救法有一些關於撤離的規範過於簡化\n\n23\n00:08:09,797 --> 00:08:27,574\n尤其是針對這個強制撤離居民這一項就缺乏明確的相對應的這個強制手段其實是對於地方政府也特別是偏鄉你要在短時間撤離千人真的是一件非常困難的事情本期從村幹事開始然後到\n\n24\n00:08:29,195 --> 00:08:51,593\n地方的民意代表然後到鄉鎮長我們在側村遇到的情況都是很難去處理的那因此對於相對這個相關策略方式的分工以法律賦予政府機關強制力這個如何以確保生命安全為優先然後給予更明確的這個規範我想在這個法規上我們應該要進行來檢討\n\n25\n00:08:53,354 --> 00:09:11,467\n那第二件事就是在強化驗社會這個防災的宣導還有演練我想這一次的驗社會造成這個大規模的災害可以說是少有這個先例可循那又涉及到剛剛提到跨部會的這個資訊的整合那我想必須要由中央機關來組織輔導我們地方\n\n26\n00:09:13,969 --> 00:09:36,304\n縣市政府甚至直接輔導高風險地區的鄉鎮市公所進行這個縣市政府的防災宣導還有應變的這個機制擬定我們才可以從上到下更具體的這個強化防災韌性還有我們民眾的這防災的意識那以上這兩個建議我確實不一定我們也好好來研議一下但本市再次強調我們希望\n\n27\n00:09:38,946 --> 00:09:57,225\n絕對不是去歸咎哪一個特定的單位或是個人或是要釐清問題才能夠解決問題那避免造成我們這樣子的傷害那以上就是幾個建議也請所剛剛提到的兩個單位能夠好好的研議那以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4981\t6746\t謝謝主席 主席我們有請內政部的部長委員好\n15222\t43132\t部長這次花蓮馬太安溪驗射物的這個潰壩事件造成19人的死亡這我想這對全體國人都是一個非常非常沉重的這個傷痛在這邊我們也感謝所有第一線救災的人員跟我們的志工那目前我們這個救災跟重建的進度都還在持續的進行當中但是我們想事發至今已經將近了20天那許多國人心中還是充滿了許多的疑問就是說\n44552\t69079\t究竟到底是為什麼會造成今天這麼嚴重的災害那到底在各項的緩解當中我們出了什麼樣的問題那因此本席今天會安排今天的議程就是希望各部會能夠一起在我們立法院清楚的跟我們國人來報告我想只有釐清問題才能夠找到改善的方法我想說我們就是希望作為未來我們政府防災的一些寶貴的經驗我們能夠強化\n71141\t93087\t我們全災害應變的能力我想這個才是符合賴總統所說的這個韌性社會我想針對這一次驗射虎潰壩事件本席認為我們必須從源頭驗射虎的監測處理開始來討論再來就是我們災害的預警通報然後疏散的機制最後是我們災後復原重建\n93827\t110447\t這就是為什麼本期這次將這次的主題專報的主題分為這幾項我們就是不希望我們只顧著去究責某一個特定的環節甚至是某一個單位某一個機關然後最後變成一場卸責大會要面對災害防災絕對勝於救災\n112574\t127881\t那我想能夠提早的發現潛在的災害的風險來做好妥善這個防災的規劃齁盡力把災害降到最低我相信這筆數讓我們救災的補充在這方面的借機務又比較重要了齁那我想接下來我想要請農業部次長是 朝偉\n136181\t161344\t市長根據我們農業部的報告農業部針對這次驗射虎的事件有列出的時間軸就從7月底開始確認有驗射虎的存在然後接下來就是進行多次的會議還有災害風險評估但是從這一次的經驗我們明顯的發現到計畫絕對趕不上變化尤其是在現在的極端氣候之下我們東部地區又常發生這個地震頻繁然後\n161823\t189161\t一次大一次地震或是一場大雨就可能把原本大家規劃好評估好的事情全部都推翻那加上這次菸涉湖涉及到的這個阻亂機關不只是單一個單位我們中央必須要痛定思痛來強化各單位之間的聯繫我們資訊的共享還有通報機制我相信呃市長也非常了解這個過程我找真的問題哦那因此真本席提出兩點的建議第一個就是說\n190041\t218017\t強化跨部會的這個驗射壺潛勢監測平台那本席知道我們農業部目前一個叫國有林防災應變及驗射壺監測系統但實際上我們去網路上看我們去網站上看它比較像是會診各單位的這個會議紀錄的一個地方那農業部應該要更整個更多的跨部會的這個即時的資訊包括我們農業部的這個邊波的穩定系統啊然後航車的圖像還有水利署的水利署這個\n219141\t243609\t河川監測資訊等等嘛我們可以透過我們這個AI影像來判讀監測我們地形的變化然後提前來辨識我們高風險這個地段讓不管是我們中央也好地方政府也好甚至我們當地的民眾都可以一目了然然後上這個平台能夠有效的即刻掌握到我們資訊那第二個 第二點的建議就是我們社會中央解釋應用社會風險地圖應變的SOP\n246857\t262648\t目前我們之內有土石柳還有河川做潛勢風險的這個地圖以及分級警戒應變機制那但針對我們這間社會這樣子複合性的這些災害未來應該有更明確更專屬的風險地圖以及不同的這風險應變機制才對\n264537\t285562\t那這當中我們涉及到的這個資訊整合的管道絕對不會是單一個地方政府他有能力做到那我們專門一定要扛起責任這真的要跨部會來一起來合作那針對菸攝乎的這個事件界內風險之後我們在每一次的地震或風災過後我們就要針對高風險地區再做一次的評估再做一次的評估\n286328\t298579\t那避免未來的事情將會發生像各位應該很清楚知道0403之後整個東部的狀況他越來越難找我所以他即使去變更這個是很重要的那你能夠了解到\n301724\t320794\t或是他是在台東發現 我們該怎麼辦其實台東的鄉親也很擔心我們在這次下鄉的時候 每個都在講說我們在家裡很累 要不要衝一排大家都很擔心會發生一樣的事情因為我相信這件事情對國人都產生特別是東部的民眾產生很大很大的陰影那我想這邊再請市長來回應\n322694\t340112\t好非常謝謝召委兩個提醒也是提問啦我想就像您所說的其實在整個氣候變遷加劇的狀況之下所有的災害其實都會是複合性的而且不是單一點的那我們現在要做的其實就是把這些資訊第二要整合起來\n340732\t367446\t所以刚刚提到的不管是这个浅市区的监测平台不是只有农业部也包括经济部甚至包括我们的NCDR科技防灾中心还甚至我们科技国科会还有各个专家其实这是一个团队那也许有人手上有这部分资料有人有那部分资料一定要统合起来看才是一个完整的这个风险地图而且这个一定要随时做所以我想我们不管是卫星资料航拍资料\n368246\t389888\t無人機資料或是甚至最近我們也找了那個經濟部那個地礦中心他們有長期的監測資料包括礦產整個的變形我想這些資料都統合起來才是我們將來在防災也好有更好的準備那老實講真的不敢講說人定會勝天因為在什麼狀況之下我們真的不知道我們只能希望說\n391189\t407583\t我們希望有更好的準備所以剛剛提到的不管是在平台也好在救災的SOP還好應處的準則或甚至在演練我想這個必須在一次又一次的操作中讓大家知道說其實要有準備\n408820\t431193\t那其實我們能夠有更好的結果如果我們大家能夠一起把這件事情再做得更完善一點不管手冊也好SOP也好更精準的預先溝通或者是能夠提早做準備寧可及早疏散就是預防性的疏散我們也不願意見到有任何一個人的損失我想這次應該在一次一次當中我們要學習到的\n431953\t451948\t市長我們希望能夠接受這件事情之後發現到整個未來應應整個極端氣候我們該怎麼去面對特別是跨國的合作然後跟地方政府合作我們不希望這樣的憾事再次發生那特別也都知道像這是像邊鄉地區他原本就是在資源缺乏然後人口老化的情況之下\n452388\t471724\t他們根本沒有能力根本沒有能力應付這麼大的災害那接下來我想要請我們這個請教這個內政部的部長保定這針對這次驗射虎這個災害事件內政部作為災害防救中央主管單位我想他絕對有必要的責任針對災害發生後\n473035\t488676\t各個環節進行全面性的檢討我想不管是中央或地方都一樣我們就是好好的釐清問題才能夠解決問題啦齁那趕快本身就提出兩個建議第一個就是說針對目前的這個災害防救法有一些關於撤離的規範過於簡化\n489797\t507574\t尤其是針對這個強制撤離居民這一項就缺乏明確的相對應的這個強制手段其實是對於地方政府也特別是偏鄉你要在短時間撤離千人真的是一件非常困難的事情本期從村幹事開始然後到\n509195\t531593\t地方的民意代表然後到鄉鎮長我們在側村遇到的情況都是很難去處理的那因此對於相對這個相關策略方式的分工以法律賦予政府機關強制力這個如何以確保生命安全為優先然後給予更明確的這個規範我想在這個法規上我們應該要進行來檢討\n533354\t551467\t那第二件事就是在強化驗社會這個防災的宣導還有演練我想這一次的驗社會造成這個大規模的災害可以說是少有這個先例可循那又涉及到剛剛提到跨部會的這個資訊的整合那我想必須要由中央機關來組織輔導我們地方\n553969\t576304\t縣市政府甚至直接輔導高風險地區的鄉鎮市公所進行這個縣市政府的防災宣導還有應變的這個機制擬定我們才可以從上到下更具體的這個強化防災韌性還有我們民眾的這防災的意識那以上這兩個建議我確實不一定我們也好好來研議一下但本市再次強調我們希望\n578946\t597225\t絕對不是去歸咎哪一個特定的單位或是個人或是要釐清問題才能夠解決問題那避免造成我們這樣子的傷害那以上就是幾個建議也請所剛剛提到的兩個單位能夠好好的研議那以上謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席我們有請內政部的部長委員好\n部長這次花蓮馬太安溪驗射物的這個潰壩事件造成19人的死亡這我想這對全體國人都是一個非常非常沉重的這個傷痛在這邊我們也感謝所有第一線救災的人員跟我們的志工那目前我們這個救災跟重建的進度都還在持續的進行當中但是我們想事發至今已經將近了20天那許多國人心中還是充滿了許多的疑問就是說\n究竟到底是為什麼會造成今天這麼嚴重的災害那到底在各項的緩解當中我們出了什麼樣的問題那因此本席今天會安排今天的議程就是希望各部會能夠一起在我們立法院清楚的跟我們國人來報告我想只有釐清問題才能夠找到改善的方法我想說我們就是希望作為未來我們政府防災的一些寶貴的經驗我們能夠強化\n我們全災害應變的能力我想這個才是符合賴總統所說的這個韌性社會我想針對這一次驗射虎潰壩事件本席認為我們必須從源頭驗射虎的監測處理開始來討論再來就是我們災害的預警通報然後疏散的機制最後是我們災後復原重建\n這就是為什麼本期這次將這次的主題專報的主題分為這幾項我們就是不希望我們只顧著去究責某一個特定的環節甚至是某一個單位某一個機關然後最後變成一場卸責大會要面對災害防災絕對勝於救災\n那我想能夠提早的發現潛在的災害的風險來做好妥善這個防災的規劃齁盡力把災害降到最低我相信這筆數讓我們救災的補充在這方面的借機務又比較重要了齁那我想接下來我想要請農業部次長是 朝偉\n市長根據我們農業部的報告農業部針對這次驗射虎的事件有列出的時間軸就從7月底開始確認有驗射虎的存在然後接下來就是進行多次的會議還有災害風險評估但是從這一次的經驗我們明顯的發現到計畫絕對趕不上變化尤其是在現在的極端氣候之下我們東部地區又常發生這個地震頻繁然後\n一次大一次地震或是一場大雨就可能把原本大家規劃好評估好的事情全部都推翻那加上這次菸涉湖涉及到的這個阻亂機關不只是單一個單位我們中央必須要痛定思痛來強化各單位之間的聯繫我們資訊的共享還有通報機制我相信呃市長也非常了解這個過程我找真的問題哦那因此真本席提出兩點的建議第一個就是說\n強化跨部會的這個驗射壺潛勢監測平台那本席知道我們農業部目前一個叫國有林防災應變及驗射壺監測系統但實際上我們去網路上看我們去網站上看它比較像是會診各單位的這個會議紀錄的一個地方那農業部應該要更整個更多的跨部會的這個即時的資訊包括我們農業部的這個邊波的穩定系統啊然後航車的圖像還有水利署的水利署這個\n河川監測資訊等等嘛我們可以透過我們這個AI影像來判讀監測我們地形的變化然後提前來辨識我們高風險這個地段讓不管是我們中央也好地方政府也好甚至我們當地的民眾都可以一目了然然後上這個平台能夠有效的即刻掌握到我們資訊那第二個 第二點的建議就是我們社會中央解釋應用社會風險地圖應變的SOP\n目前我們之內有土石柳還有河川做潛勢風險的這個地圖以及分級警戒應變機制那但針對我們這間社會這樣子複合性的這些災害未來應該有更明確更專屬的風險地圖以及不同的這風險應變機制才對\n那這當中我們涉及到的這個資訊整合的管道絕對不會是單一個地方政府他有能力做到那我們專門一定要扛起責任這真的要跨部會來一起來合作那針對菸攝乎的這個事件界內風險之後我們在每一次的地震或風災過後我們就要針對高風險地區再做一次的評估再做一次的評估\n那避免未來的事情將會發生像各位應該很清楚知道0403之後整個東部的狀況他越來越難找我所以他即使去變更這個是很重要的那你能夠了解到\n或是他是在台東發現 我們該怎麼辦其實台東的鄉親也很擔心我們在這次下鄉的時候 每個都在講說我們在家裡很累 要不要衝一排大家都很擔心會發生一樣的事情因為我相信這件事情對國人都產生特別是東部的民眾產生很大很大的陰影那我想這邊再請市長來回應\n好非常謝謝召委兩個提醒也是提問啦我想就像您所說的其實在整個氣候變遷加劇的狀況之下所有的災害其實都會是複合性的而且不是單一點的那我們現在要做的其實就是把這些資訊第二要整合起來\n所以刚刚提到的不管是这个浅市区的监测平台不是只有农业部也包括经济部甚至包括我们的NCDR科技防灾中心还甚至我们科技国科会还有各个专家其实这是一个团队那也许有人手上有这部分资料有人有那部分资料一定要统合起来看才是一个完整的这个风险地图而且这个一定要随时做所以我想我们不管是卫星资料航拍资料\n無人機資料或是甚至最近我們也找了那個經濟部那個地礦中心他們有長期的監測資料包括礦產整個的變形我想這些資料都統合起來才是我們將來在防災也好有更好的準備那老實講真的不敢講說人定會勝天因為在什麼狀況之下我們真的不知道我們只能希望說\n我們希望有更好的準備所以剛剛提到的不管是在平台也好在救災的SOP還好應處的準則或甚至在演練我想這個必須在一次又一次的操作中讓大家知道說其實要有準備\n那其實我們能夠有更好的結果如果我們大家能夠一起把這件事情再做得更完善一點不管手冊也好SOP也好更精準的預先溝通或者是能夠提早做準備寧可及早疏散就是預防性的疏散我們也不願意見到有任何一個人的損失我想這次應該在一次一次當中我們要學習到的\n市長我們希望能夠接受這件事情之後發現到整個未來應應整個極端氣候我們該怎麼去面對特別是跨國的合作然後跟地方政府合作我們不希望這樣的憾事再次發生那特別也都知道像這是像邊鄉地區他原本就是在資源缺乏然後人口老化的情況之下\n他們根本沒有能力根本沒有能力應付這麼大的災害那接下來我想要請我們這個請教這個內政部的部長保定這針對這次驗射虎這個災害事件內政部作為災害防救中央主管單位我想他絕對有必要的責任針對災害發生後\n各個環節進行全面性的檢討我想不管是中央或地方都一樣我們就是好好的釐清問題才能夠解決問題啦齁那趕快本身就提出兩個建議第一個就是說針對目前的這個災害防救法有一些關於撤離的規範過於簡化\n尤其是針對這個強制撤離居民這一項就缺乏明確的相對應的這個強制手段其實是對於地方政府也特別是偏鄉你要在短時間撤離千人真的是一件非常困難的事情本期從村幹事開始然後到\n地方的民意代表然後到鄉鎮長我們在側村遇到的情況都是很難去處理的那因此對於相對這個相關策略方式的分工以法律賦予政府機關強制力這個如何以確保生命安全為優先然後給予更明確的這個規範我想在這個法規上我們應該要進行來檢討\n那第二件事就是在強化驗社會這個防災的宣導還有演練我想這一次的驗社會造成這個大規模的災害可以說是少有這個先例可循那又涉及到剛剛提到跨部會的這個資訊的整合那我想必須要由中央機關來組織輔導我們地方\n縣市政府甚至直接輔導高風險地區的鄉鎮市公所進行這個縣市政府的防災宣導還有應變的這個機制擬定我們才可以從上到下更具體的這個強化防災韌性還有我們民眾的這防災的意識那以上這兩個建議我確實不一定我們也好好來研議一下但本市再次強調我們希望\n絕對不是去歸咎哪一個特定的單位或是個人或是要釐清問題才能夠解決問題那避免造成我們這樣子的傷害那以上就是幾個建議也請所剛剛提到的兩個單位能夠好好的研議那以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.981 --> 00:06.746\n謝謝主席主席我們有請內政部的部長委員好\n\n00:15.222 --> 00:43.132\n部長這次花蓮馬太安溪驗射物的這個潰壩事件造成19人的死亡這我想這對全體國人都是一個非常非常沉重的這個傷痛在這邊我們也感謝所有第一線救災的人員跟我們的志工那目前我們這個救災跟重建的進度都還在持續的進行當中但是我們想事發至今已經將近了20天那許多國人心中還是充滿了許多的疑問就是說\n\n00:44.552 --> 01:09.079\n究竟到底是為什麼會造成今天這麼嚴重的災害那到底在各項的緩解當中我們出了什麼樣的問題那因此本席今天會安排今天的議程就是希望各部會能夠一起在我們立法院清楚的跟我們國人來報告我想只有釐清問題才能夠找到改善的方法我想說我們就是希望作為未來我們政府防災的一些寶貴的經驗我們能夠強化\n\n01:11.141 --> 01:33.087\n我們全災害應變的能力我想這個才是符合賴總統所說的這個韌性社會我想針對這一次驗射虎潰壩事件本席認為我們必須從源頭驗射虎的監測處理開始來討論再來就是我們災害的預警通報然後疏散的機制最後是我們災後復原重建\n\n01:33.827 --> 01:50.447\n這就是為什麼本期這次將這次的主題專報的主題分為這幾項我們就是不希望我們只顧著去究責某一個特定的環節甚至是某一個單位某一個機關然後最後變成一場卸責大會要面對災害防災絕對勝於救災\n\n01:52.574 --> 02:07.881\n那我想能夠提早的發現潛在的災害的風險來做好妥善這個防災的規劃齁盡力把災害降到最低我相信這筆數讓我們救災的補充在這方面的借機務又比較重要了齁那我想接下來我想要請農業部次長是朝偉\n\n02:16.181 --> 02:41.344\n市長根據我們農業部的報告農業部針對這次驗射虎的事件有列出的時間軸就從7月底開始確認有驗射虎的存在然後接下來就是進行多次的會議還有災害風險評估但是從這一次的經驗我們明顯的發現到計畫絕對趕不上變化尤其是在現在的極端氣候之下我們東部地區又常發生這個地震頻繁然後\n\n02:41.823 --> 03:09.161\n一次大一次地震或是一場大雨就可能把原本大家規劃好評估好的事情全部都推翻那加上這次菸涉湖涉及到的這個阻亂機關不只是單一個單位我們中央必須要痛定思痛來強化各單位之間的聯繫我們資訊的共享還有通報機制我相信呃市長也非常了解這個過程我找真的問題哦那因此真本席提出兩點的建議第一個就是說\n\n03:10.041 --> 03:38.017\n強化跨部會的這個驗射壺潛勢監測平台那本席知道我們農業部目前一個叫國有林防災應變及驗射壺監測系統但實際上我們去網路上看我們去網站上看它比較像是會診各單位的這個會議紀錄的一個地方那農業部應該要更整個更多的跨部會的這個即時的資訊包括我們農業部的這個邊波的穩定系統啊然後航車的圖像還有水利署的水利署這個\n\n03:39.141 --> 04:03.609\n河川監測資訊等等嘛我們可以透過我們這個AI影像來判讀監測我們地形的變化然後提前來辨識我們高風險這個地段讓不管是我們中央也好地方政府也好甚至我們當地的民眾都可以一目了然然後上這個平台能夠有效的即刻掌握到我們資訊那第二個第二點的建議就是我們社會中央解釋應用社會風險地圖應變的SOP\n\n04:06.857 --> 04:22.648\n目前我們之內有土石柳還有河川做潛勢風險的這個地圖以及分級警戒應變機制那但針對我們這間社會這樣子複合性的這些災害未來應該有更明確更專屬的風險地圖以及不同的這風險應變機制才對\n\n04:24.537 --> 04:45.562\n那這當中我們涉及到的這個資訊整合的管道絕對不會是單一個地方政府他有能力做到那我們專門一定要扛起責任這真的要跨部會來一起來合作那針對菸攝乎的這個事件界內風險之後我們在每一次的地震或風災過後我們就要針對高風險地區再做一次的評估再做一次的評估\n\n04:46.328 --> 04:58.579\n那避免未來的事情將會發生像各位應該很清楚知道0403之後整個東部的狀況他越來越難找我所以他即使去變更這個是很重要的那你能夠了解到\n\n05:01.724 --> 05:20.794\n或是他是在台東發現我們該怎麼辦其實台東的鄉親也很擔心我們在這次下鄉的時候每個都在講說我們在家裡很累要不要衝一排大家都很擔心會發生一樣的事情因為我相信這件事情對國人都產生特別是東部的民眾產生很大很大的陰影那我想這邊再請市長來回應\n\n05:22.694 --> 05:40.112\n好非常謝謝召委兩個提醒也是提問啦我想就像您所說的其實在整個氣候變遷加劇的狀況之下所有的災害其實都會是複合性的而且不是單一點的那我們現在要做的其實就是把這些資訊第二要整合起來\n\n05:40.732 --> 06:07.446\n所以刚刚提到的不管是这个浅市区的监测平台不是只有农业部也包括经济部甚至包括我们的NCDR科技防灾中心还甚至我们科技国科会还有各个专家其实这是一个团队那也许有人手上有这部分资料有人有那部分资料一定要统合起来看才是一个完整的这个风险地图而且这个一定要随时做所以我想我们不管是卫星资料航拍资料\n\n06:08.246 --> 06:29.888\n無人機資料或是甚至最近我們也找了那個經濟部那個地礦中心他們有長期的監測資料包括礦產整個的變形我想這些資料都統合起來才是我們將來在防災也好有更好的準備那老實講真的不敢講說人定會勝天因為在什麼狀況之下我們真的不知道我們只能希望說\n\n06:31.189 --> 06:47.583\n我們希望有更好的準備所以剛剛提到的不管是在平台也好在救災的SOP還好應處的準則或甚至在演練我想這個必須在一次又一次的操作中讓大家知道說其實要有準備\n\n06:48.820 --> 07:11.193\n那其實我們能夠有更好的結果如果我們大家能夠一起把這件事情再做得更完善一點不管手冊也好SOP也好更精準的預先溝通或者是能夠提早做準備寧可及早疏散就是預防性的疏散我們也不願意見到有任何一個人的損失我想這次應該在一次一次當中我們要學習到的\n\n07:11.953 --> 07:31.948\n市長我們希望能夠接受這件事情之後發現到整個未來應應整個極端氣候我們該怎麼去面對特別是跨國的合作然後跟地方政府合作我們不希望這樣的憾事再次發生那特別也都知道像這是像邊鄉地區他原本就是在資源缺乏然後人口老化的情況之下\n\n07:32.388 --> 07:51.724\n他們根本沒有能力根本沒有能力應付這麼大的災害那接下來我想要請我們這個請教這個內政部的部長保定這針對這次驗射虎這個災害事件內政部作為災害防救中央主管單位我想他絕對有必要的責任針對災害發生後\n\n07:53.035 --> 08:08.676\n各個環節進行全面性的檢討我想不管是中央或地方都一樣我們就是好好的釐清問題才能夠解決問題啦齁那趕快本身就提出兩個建議第一個就是說針對目前的這個災害防救法有一些關於撤離的規範過於簡化\n\n08:09.797 --> 08:27.574\n尤其是針對這個強制撤離居民這一項就缺乏明確的相對應的這個強制手段其實是對於地方政府也特別是偏鄉你要在短時間撤離千人真的是一件非常困難的事情本期從村幹事開始然後到\n\n08:29.195 --> 08:51.593\n地方的民意代表然後到鄉鎮長我們在側村遇到的情況都是很難去處理的那因此對於相對這個相關策略方式的分工以法律賦予政府機關強制力這個如何以確保生命安全為優先然後給予更明確的這個規範我想在這個法規上我們應該要進行來檢討\n\n08:53.354 --> 09:11.467\n那第二件事就是在強化驗社會這個防災的宣導還有演練我想這一次的驗社會造成這個大規模的災害可以說是少有這個先例可循那又涉及到剛剛提到跨部會的這個資訊的整合那我想必須要由中央機關來組織輔導我們地方\n\n09:13.969 --> 09:36.304\n縣市政府甚至直接輔導高風險地區的鄉鎮市公所進行這個縣市政府的防災宣導還有應變的這個機制擬定我們才可以從上到下更具體的這個強化防災韌性還有我們民眾的這防災的意識那以上這兩個建議我確實不一定我們也好好來研議一下但本市再次強調我們希望\n\n09:38.946 --> 09:57.225\n絕對不是去歸咎哪一個特定的單位或是個人或是要釐清問題才能夠解決問題那避免造成我們這樣子的傷害那以上就是幾個建議也請所剛剛提到的兩個單位能夠好好的研議那以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.981,"end":6.746,"text":"謝謝主席 主席我們有請內政部的部長委員好"},{"start":15.222,"end":43.132,"text":"部長這次花蓮馬太安溪驗射物的這個潰壩事件造成19人的死亡這我想這對全體國人都是一個非常非常沉重的這個傷痛在這邊我們也感謝所有第一線救災的人員跟我們的志工那目前我們這個救災跟重建的進度都還在持續的進行當中但是我們想事發至今已經將近了20天那許多國人心中還是充滿了許多的疑問就是說"},{"start":44.552,"end":69.079,"text":"究竟到底是為什麼會造成今天這麼嚴重的災害那到底在各項的緩解當中我們出了什麼樣的問題那因此本席今天會安排今天的議程就是希望各部會能夠一起在我們立法院清楚的跟我們國人來報告我想只有釐清問題才能夠找到改善的方法我想說我們就是希望作為未來我們政府防災的一些寶貴的經驗我們能夠強化"},{"start":71.141,"end":93.087,"text":"我們全災害應變的能力我想這個才是符合賴總統所說的這個韌性社會我想針對這一次驗射虎潰壩事件本席認為我們必須從源頭驗射虎的監測處理開始來討論再來就是我們災害的預警通報然後疏散的機制最後是我們災後復原重建"},{"start":93.827,"end":110.447,"text":"這就是為什麼本期這次將這次的主題專報的主題分為這幾項我們就是不希望我們只顧著去究責某一個特定的環節甚至是某一個單位某一個機關然後最後變成一場卸責大會要面對災害防災絕對勝於救災"},{"start":112.574,"end":127.881,"text":"那我想能夠提早的發現潛在的災害的風險來做好妥善這個防災的規劃齁盡力把災害降到最低我相信這筆數讓我們救災的補充在這方面的借機務又比較重要了齁那我想接下來我想要請農業部次長是 朝偉"},{"start":136.181,"end":161.344,"text":"市長根據我們農業部的報告農業部針對這次驗射虎的事件有列出的時間軸就從7月底開始確認有驗射虎的存在然後接下來就是進行多次的會議還有災害風險評估但是從這一次的經驗我們明顯的發現到計畫絕對趕不上變化尤其是在現在的極端氣候之下我們東部地區又常發生這個地震頻繁然後"},{"start":161.823,"end":189.161,"text":"一次大一次地震或是一場大雨就可能把原本大家規劃好評估好的事情全部都推翻那加上這次菸涉湖涉及到的這個阻亂機關不只是單一個單位我們中央必須要痛定思痛來強化各單位之間的聯繫我們資訊的共享還有通報機制我相信呃市長也非常了解這個過程我找真的問題哦那因此真本席提出兩點的建議第一個就是說"},{"start":190.041,"end":218.017,"text":"強化跨部會的這個驗射壺潛勢監測平台那本席知道我們農業部目前一個叫國有林防災應變及驗射壺監測系統但實際上我們去網路上看我們去網站上看它比較像是會診各單位的這個會議紀錄的一個地方那農業部應該要更整個更多的跨部會的這個即時的資訊包括我們農業部的這個邊波的穩定系統啊然後航車的圖像還有水利署的水利署這個"},{"start":219.141,"end":243.609,"text":"河川監測資訊等等嘛我們可以透過我們這個AI影像來判讀監測我們地形的變化然後提前來辨識我們高風險這個地段讓不管是我們中央也好地方政府也好甚至我們當地的民眾都可以一目了然然後上這個平台能夠有效的即刻掌握到我們資訊那第二個 第二點的建議就是我們社會中央解釋應用社會風險地圖應變的SOP"},{"start":246.857,"end":262.648,"text":"目前我們之內有土石柳還有河川做潛勢風險的這個地圖以及分級警戒應變機制那但針對我們這間社會這樣子複合性的這些災害未來應該有更明確更專屬的風險地圖以及不同的這風險應變機制才對"},{"start":264.537,"end":285.562,"text":"那這當中我們涉及到的這個資訊整合的管道絕對不會是單一個地方政府他有能力做到那我們專門一定要扛起責任這真的要跨部會來一起來合作那針對菸攝乎的這個事件界內風險之後我們在每一次的地震或風災過後我們就要針對高風險地區再做一次的評估再做一次的評估"},{"start":286.328,"end":298.579,"text":"那避免未來的事情將會發生像各位應該很清楚知道0403之後整個東部的狀況他越來越難找我所以他即使去變更這個是很重要的那你能夠了解到"},{"start":301.724,"end":320.794,"text":"或是他是在台東發現 我們該怎麼辦其實台東的鄉親也很擔心我們在這次下鄉的時候 每個都在講說我們在家裡很累 要不要衝一排大家都很擔心會發生一樣的事情因為我相信這件事情對國人都產生特別是東部的民眾產生很大很大的陰影那我想這邊再請市長來回應"},{"start":322.694,"end":340.112,"text":"好非常謝謝召委兩個提醒也是提問啦我想就像您所說的其實在整個氣候變遷加劇的狀況之下所有的災害其實都會是複合性的而且不是單一點的那我們現在要做的其實就是把這些資訊第二要整合起來"},{"start":340.732,"end":367.446,"text":"所以刚刚提到的不管是这个浅市区的监测平台不是只有农业部也包括经济部甚至包括我们的NCDR科技防灾中心还甚至我们科技国科会还有各个专家其实这是一个团队那也许有人手上有这部分资料有人有那部分资料一定要统合起来看才是一个完整的这个风险地图而且这个一定要随时做所以我想我们不管是卫星资料航拍资料"},{"start":368.246,"end":389.888,"text":"無人機資料或是甚至最近我們也找了那個經濟部那個地礦中心他們有長期的監測資料包括礦產整個的變形我想這些資料都統合起來才是我們將來在防災也好有更好的準備那老實講真的不敢講說人定會勝天因為在什麼狀況之下我們真的不知道我們只能希望說"},{"start":391.189,"end":407.583,"text":"我們希望有更好的準備所以剛剛提到的不管是在平台也好在救災的SOP還好應處的準則或甚至在演練我想這個必須在一次又一次的操作中讓大家知道說其實要有準備"},{"start":408.82,"end":431.193,"text":"那其實我們能夠有更好的結果如果我們大家能夠一起把這件事情再做得更完善一點不管手冊也好SOP也好更精準的預先溝通或者是能夠提早做準備寧可及早疏散就是預防性的疏散我們也不願意見到有任何一個人的損失我想這次應該在一次一次當中我們要學習到的"},{"start":431.953,"end":451.948,"text":"市長我們希望能夠接受這件事情之後發現到整個未來應應整個極端氣候我們該怎麼去面對特別是跨國的合作然後跟地方政府合作我們不希望這樣的憾事再次發生那特別也都知道像這是像邊鄉地區他原本就是在資源缺乏然後人口老化的情況之下"},{"start":452.388,"end":471.724,"text":"他們根本沒有能力根本沒有能力應付這麼大的災害那接下來我想要請我們這個請教這個內政部的部長保定這針對這次驗射虎這個災害事件內政部作為災害防救中央主管單位我想他絕對有必要的責任針對災害發生後"},{"start":473.035,"end":488.676,"text":"各個環節進行全面性的檢討我想不管是中央或地方都一樣我們就是好好的釐清問題才能夠解決問題啦齁那趕快本身就提出兩個建議第一個就是說針對目前的這個災害防救法有一些關於撤離的規範過於簡化"},{"start":489.797,"end":507.574,"text":"尤其是針對這個強制撤離居民這一項就缺乏明確的相對應的這個強制手段其實是對於地方政府也特別是偏鄉你要在短時間撤離千人真的是一件非常困難的事情本期從村幹事開始然後到"},{"start":509.195,"end":531.593,"text":"地方的民意代表然後到鄉鎮長我們在側村遇到的情況都是很難去處理的那因此對於相對這個相關策略方式的分工以法律賦予政府機關強制力這個如何以確保生命安全為優先然後給予更明確的這個規範我想在這個法規上我們應該要進行來檢討"},{"start":533.354,"end":551.467,"text":"那第二件事就是在強化驗社會這個防災的宣導還有演練我想這一次的驗社會造成這個大規模的災害可以說是少有這個先例可循那又涉及到剛剛提到跨部會的這個資訊的整合那我想必須要由中央機關來組織輔導我們地方"},{"start":553.969,"end":576.304,"text":"縣市政府甚至直接輔導高風險地區的鄉鎮市公所進行這個縣市政府的防災宣導還有應變的這個機制擬定我們才可以從上到下更具體的這個強化防災韌性還有我們民眾的這防災的意識那以上這兩個建議我確實不一定我們也好好來研議一下但本市再次強調我們希望"},{"start":578.946,"end":597.225,"text":"絕對不是去歸咎哪一個特定的單位或是個人或是要釐清問題才能夠解決問題那避免造成我們這樣子的傷害那以上就是幾個建議也請所剛剛提到的兩個單位能夠好好的研議那以上謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1179,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（12時54分）謝謝主席。主席，我們有請內政部劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["黃委員建賓：部長好。部長，這次花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖的潰壩事件，造成19人的死亡，我想這對全體國人都是非常非常沉重的傷痛，在這邊我們也感謝所有第一線救災的人員跟志工。目前我們救災跟重建的進度都還在持續進行當中，但是我們想事發至今已經將近20天，許多國人心中還是充滿了許多的疑問，就是究竟到底是為什麼會造成今天這麼嚴重的災害？到底在各項的環節當中，我們出了什麼樣的問題？因此，本席會安排今天的議程，就是希望各部會能夠一起在我們立法院，清楚地跟我們國人來報告，我想只有釐清問題才能夠找到改善的方法，我們都是希望作為未來政府防災的一些寶貴經驗，能夠強化我們全災害應變的能力，我想這個才是符合賴總統所說的韌性社會。","我想針對這一次堰塞湖潰壩事件，本席認為我們必須從源頭堰塞湖的監測處理開始來討論，再來就是我們災害預警的通報、疏散的機制，最後是災後復原重建。這就是為什麼本席將這次的專報主題分為這幾項，就是不希望我們只顧著去究責某一個特定的環節，甚至是某一個單位、某一個機關，然後最後變成一場卸責的大會，面對災害，防災絕對勝於救災，我想能夠提早發現潛在的災害風險，做好妥善防災的規劃，盡力把災害降到最低，我相信這比事後救災補償，擔什麼責任更加重要。接下來，我想要請農業部次長。"],["杜次長文珍：是，召委。"],["黃委員建賓：次長，根據農業部的報告，農業部針對這次堰塞湖的事件有列出時間軸，從7月底開始確認有堰塞湖的存在，接下來就是進行多次的會議，還有災害風險評估。但是從這一次的經過，我們明顯發現到計畫絕對趕不上變化，尤其是在現在的極端氣候之下，東部地區又頻繁發生地震，然後一次地震或是一場大雨，就可能把原本大家規劃好、評估好的事情全部都推翻，加上這次堰塞湖涉及到的主管機關，不只是單一個單位，我們中央必須要痛定思痛，來強化各單位之間的聯繫，我們資訊的共享還有通報機制，我相信次長也非常了解這個過程產生的問題。","因此本席提出兩點的建議，第一點，強化跨部會的這個堰塞湖潛勢監測平臺，本席知道農業部目前有一個國有林防災應變及堰塞湖監測系統，但實際上我們去網站上看，它比較像是彙整各單位會議紀錄的地方，農業部應該要整合更多跨部會的即時資訊，包括農業部的邊坡穩定系統、航測的圖像，還有水利署的河川監測資訊等等，可以透過AI影像來判讀監測地形的變化，然後提前來辨識高風險地段，讓不管是中央也好、地方政府也好，甚至當地的民眾都可以一目了然，透過這個平臺就能夠有效地即刻掌握到資訊。","第二點建議，我們設立中央檢測堰塞湖風險地圖應變的SOP，目前我們針對有土石流、河川做潛勢風險的地圖，以及分級警戒應變機制，但針對這些堰塞湖這樣子複合性的災害，未來應該有更明確、更專屬的風險地圖，以及不同的風險應變機制才對。這當中我們涉及到的資訊整合的管道，絕對不會是單一個地方政府有能力做到，我們中央一定要扛起責任，這真的要跨部會一起來合作。針對堰塞湖的這個事件監測風險之後，我們在每一次的地震或風災過後，就要針對高風險地區再做一次的評估，避免未來這樣的事情再發生。","各位也應該很清楚知道，0403之後整個東部的狀況愈來愈難掌握，所以即時去變更是很重要的，讓你能夠了解到下一次颱風大、雨水大，或者它是在臺東發生，我們該怎麼辦。其實臺東鄉親也很擔心，我們在這次下鄉的時候，每個都在講說我們溪水很高會不會衝進來，大家都很擔心會發生一樣的事情，因為我相信這件事情對國人，特別是東部的民眾產生很大很大的陰影，我想這邊再請次長來回應。"],["杜次長文珍：非常謝謝召委的提醒，同時也是提問。就像您所說的，其實在整個氣候變遷加劇的狀況之下，所有的災害都會是複合性的，而且不是單一點的。我們現在要做的第一就是要把這些資訊整合起來，所以剛剛提到的潛勢區監測平臺不是只有農業部，也包括經濟部，甚至包括NCDR（災防科技中心）和國科會，還有各個專家，其實這是一個團隊。也許有人手上有這部分資料，有人手上有那部分資料，一定要統合起來看，才是一個完整的風險地圖，而且這個一定要隨時做。不管是衛星資料、航拍資料或無人機資料，甚至最近我們也找了經濟部地礦中心，他們有長期的監測資料，包括對整個礦場的辨識，這些資料都要統合起來，將來在防災方面才能有更好的準備。","老實講，真的不敢說人定會勝天，因為我們真的不知道會發生什麼狀況，只能希望有更好的準備。所以剛剛提到的，不管是在平臺也好、救災的SOP也好、應處的準則，甚至是演練，都必須在一次又一次的操作中讓大家知道其實要有準備。如果我們大家能夠把這件事情做得更完善一點，就會有更好的結果，不管是手冊也好、SOP也好，都更精準地預先溝通或是提早做準備，寧可提早做預防性的疏散，我們也不願意見到任何一個人的損失，這應該是我們在一次一次的操作當中要學習到的。"],["黃委員建賓：是的，次長，我們希望能夠在經歷這次的事情之後，發現未來因應整個極端氣候該怎麼去面對，特別是跨部會的合作和跟地方政府的合作，我們不希望這樣的憾事再次發生。特別是這次像偏鄉地區原本就是處在資源缺乏、人口老化的情況之下，他們根本沒有能力應付這麼大的災害。","接下來我想請教內政部劉部長。針對這次堰塞湖災害的事件，內政部做為災害防救的中央主管單位，絕對有必要針對災害發生後的各個環節進行全面性檢討，不管是中央或地方都一樣，就是好好地釐清問題才能夠解決問題。","本席要提出兩個建議，第一是目前的災害防救法有一些關於撤離的規範過於簡化，尤其是針對強制撤離居民這一項，就缺乏明確的相對應的強制手段。其實對於地方政府而言，特別是偏鄉，要在短時間內撤離千人，真的是一件非常困難的事情，本席從擔任村幹事開始，到地方民意代表，然後到鄉鎮長，我們在撤村方面遇到的情況都是很難處理的。因此，對於相關撤離方式的分工、以法律賦予政府機關強制力，如何以確保生命安全為優先，給予更明確的規範？我認為在把關上應該要進行檢討。","第二是強化堰塞湖防災宣導和演練。這次堰塞湖造成大規模的災害，可以說少有先例可循，因為涉及剛剛提到的跨部會資訊整合，我想必須要由中央機關來主責，輔導地方縣市政府，甚至直接輔導高風險地區的鄉鎮市公所，進行堰塞湖的防災宣導還有應變機制的擬訂，我們才可以從上到下，更具體地強化防災韌性和民眾的防災意識。","以上這兩個建議，請部長好好研議一下。本席再次強調，我們希望的絕對不是去歸咎於哪一個特定的單位或個人，而是要釐清問題，才能夠解決問題，避免再次造成這樣的傷害。以上幾個建議也請剛剛提到的兩個單位能夠好好地研議，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝。"],["主席（黃委員建賓）：接下來請黃國昌委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-3","speakers":["黃建賓","王美惠","張宏陸","蘇巧慧","黃捷","許宇甄","高金素梅","傅崐萁","牛煦庭","李柏毅","張智倫","吳琪銘","林德福","徐欣瑩","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蔡易餘","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-13"],"gazette_id":"1148201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、原住民族委員會主任委員、農業部部長率所屬單位就「堰塞湖監測、災害預警\n通報、疏散機制及災後復原重建」進行專題報告，並備質詢，另請經濟部、環境部、衛生福利\n部、行政院公共工程委員會派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1148201_00001"}}}