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154.033, \"text\": \"我們有把它編在任性條例裡面國土安全任性條例裡面有編列進去預算裡面不知道有沒有防救災緊急衛生物資整備編列15億8520就是這一次在中央的這個國土安全任性計畫條例裡面把它放進去預算如果有的話我認為這是真的是需要的然後第二個就是說因為過去我們內政部對於村裡這樣的一個集會所它的補助上限就是400萬\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 125.955, \"end\": 126.195, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 126.195, \"end\": 126.355, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"把\", \"start\": 126.355, \"end\": 126.455, \"score\": 0.758}, {\"word\": \"它\", \"start\": 126.455, \"end\": 126.875, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"編\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 126.875, \"end\": 127.035, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 127.035, \"end\": 127.315, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 127.315, \"end\": 127.716, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 127.716, \"end\": 127.996, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 127.996, \"end\": 128.857, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"土\", \"start\": 128.857, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 376.36, \"end\": 376.48, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 376.48, \"end\": 376.62, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 376.62, \"end\": 377.041, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 377.041, \"end\": 377.361, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 377.361, \"end\": 377.441, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 377.441, \"end\": 377.461, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,676 --> 00:00:13,060\n謝謝召委破例給我三分鐘那我是不是請我們內政部部長請部長蔡委員好部長部長我們經歷了從7月丹納斯R728的強降雨到後來花蓮的這一次的災害\n\n2\n00:00:25,683 --> 00:00:41,471\n事實上我們看到了很多居民在避難在做防災避難的時候空間的不足那空間的不足主要就是說因為居民如果要緊急避難的話最好的地方就是那個正頭要有一個防災避難所\n\n3\n00:00:44,252 --> 00:01:07,864\n阿或者是他有很多正宅的物品必須要放在一個空間這最好的就是村裡辦公室啦是的但是我們知道有很多村裡辦公室真的是老化老化到齁第一你在那個空間你就覺得嗯它的味道就是已經很老的房子了味道也不好再來沒空調你知道如果真的有居民我們地方齁有在水災的時候有的大人齁去那個村裡\n\n4\n00:01:10,845 --> 00:01:15,629\n那個活動中心那時候好熱耶熱到沒有空調叫他在那邊睡一晚睡好幾晚真的痛苦到村長要穿冷氣冷氣之後要去載冰鋼來不是穿電風電風之後要載冰鋼用電風打冷氣吹給那些老人家在那邊他才有辦法有一個空間所以事實上呈現出來就是說\n\n5\n00:01:38,488 --> 00:01:47,710\n我們村裡這個防災避難的空間不是沒有就是老化因為有很多是特別的空間所以我們看到這一次我們的特別預算在編列的時候我本來我就漏掉了這一項事實上特別預算對於鄉鎮村裡活動中心的防災準備空間是沒有編列這樣的預算這個我覺得好可惜這個應該要編列的\n\n6\n00:02:05,955 --> 00:02:34,033\n我們有把它編在任性條例裡面國土安全任性條例裡面有編列進去預算裡面不知道有沒有防救災緊急衛生物資整備編列15億8520就是這一次在中央的這個國土安全任性計畫條例裡面把它放進去預算如果有的話我認為這是真的是需要的然後第二個就是說因為過去我們內政部對於村裡這樣的一個集會所它的補助上限就是400萬\n\n7\n00:02:35,584 --> 00:02:44,772\n就是四百萬而且這個已經將近二三十年來沒有調整過那四百萬是什麼概念我們知道你現在要蓋一個適當的空間那兩層樓兩層樓的話農場貴差不多三千萬所以縱使中央這個中央如果補助四百萬剩下的讓地方去找錢真的是\n\n8\n00:02:57,702 --> 00:03:24,504\n很難啦但地方也是會多少出一點錢但是中央如果核定上限是四百萬的話基本上你要在中途然後來興建這樣的一個防災避難或者是村裡的集會所事實上就是多功能的一個概念這個錢是不足的所以我們想說我們現在整個因為我們現在整個防災要有更新的思維然後村民的一個避難空間是要有足夠的空間這個預算是不足的\n\n9\n00:03:27,047 --> 00:03:30,922\n是完全不足我們今天8月的時候前瞻預算已經全部用完了\n\n10\n00:03:32,335 --> 00:03:56,654\n是所以不夠所以對剛剛委員所提到的部分第一個我們是不是依照鄉鎮因為你一定要有主要的一個避難中心那避難中心不一定是村裡辦公室通常都是活動中心或者是國小國中這些那我們會在所謂的國土的維生物資整備上面包括您剛所提到不是冷氣機是緊急發電機或是緊急要用的電源\n\n11\n00:03:57,435 --> 00:04:21,802\n那按照我們的防災協作中心的方式來做大量的配備好那這樣子的部分的會比較好比如說現在再去找經費把所有的村裡集會活動所全部再重新修繕這可能會曠日廢時我們現在就是先準備一下現在如果有必須要這個疏散或是收容的時候呢怎麼樣把裡面的設備設施把它加強跟補強甚至呢他有物資有集放\n\n12\n00:04:22,202 --> 00:04:50,433\n的地方比較安全的地方比如說我剛才說的緊急發電機或者是有什麼柴油的部分啦或者是緊急的濾水設備因為如果你要到收容安置的地方第一個只是做維生而已啦你不可能說從那吃喝玩樂都很好的部長當然沒有要到所謂口但是我要跟部長說有水有電有的吃有的睡但是我要跟部長說因為很多老人家他們如果是淹水的話你要叫他移動到\n\n13\n00:04:52,473 --> 00:05:00,955\n鄉鎮可能設備雖然比較好可是他就是不想離開他們會寧可會在村裡村裡的一個集會所因為你要叫他再跨跨出那個增淘如果當然如果這次花蓮的狀況另當別論嘛那是強制撤離但是有的時候是因處因罪然後我們就說你離開你的家裡到村來的一個安置空間可是這個安置空間的環境是不足的\n\n14\n00:05:18,658 --> 00:05:22,181\n所以我才會藉由這個村裡的這個如果要興建一個村裡的適當的集會所預算不足這件事情想要跟部長討論說能不能用這個機會來做整體的一個考量報告委員我們現在的錢真的八月用完了看可不可以在財政收支劃分法裡面請地方政府多擔待一點我們真的是講我們實際上的狀況\n\n15\n00:05:41,735 --> 00:05:59,526\n沒有沒有關係我是覺得這個可以來檢討防災協作中心的話基本上我們的設計是以每個村裡辦公室來處理包括未來有防災所需要的替代役的人力我們的規劃大概是每個地方希望能夠有20到50個人來協助做疏散撤離\n\n16\n00:06:00,286 --> 00:06:17,461\n是協助做收容安置的人力上面的需求大概基本上是我們這方面但是硬體設備都村裡辦公室全部做修繕這個對我們民政單位來講民政司來講這個預算量太大我們沒有辦法在這個地方跟委員說我們一定能夠爭取得到好了解\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8676\t13060\t謝謝召委破例給我三分鐘那我是不是請我們內政部部長請部長蔡委員好部長部長我們經歷了從7月丹納斯R728的強降雨到後來花蓮的這一次的災害\n25683\t41471\t事實上我們看到了很多居民在避難在做防災避難的時候空間的不足那空間的不足主要就是說因為居民如果要緊急避難的話最好的地方就是那個正頭要有一個防災避難所\n44252\t67864\t阿或者是他有很多正宅的物品必須要放在一個空間這最好的就是村裡辦公室啦是的但是我們知道有很多村裡辦公室真的是老化老化到齁第一你在那個空間你就覺得嗯它的味道就是已經很老的房子了味道也不好再來沒空調你知道如果真的有居民我們地方齁有在水災的時候有的大人齁去那個村裡\n70845\t75629\t那個活動中心那時候好熱耶 熱到沒有空調叫他在那邊睡一晚 睡好幾晚真的痛苦到村長要穿冷氣 冷氣之後要去載冰鋼來不是 穿電風 電風之後要載冰鋼用電風打冷氣吹給那些老人家在那邊他才有辦法有一個空間所以事實上呈現出來就是說\n98488\t107710\t我們村裡這個防災避難的空間不是沒有就是老化因為有很多是特別的空間所以我們看到這一次我們的特別預算在編列的時候我本來我就漏掉了這一項事實上特別預算對於鄉鎮村裡活動中心的防災準備空間是沒有編列這樣的預算這個我覺得好可惜這個應該要編列的\n125955\t154033\t我們有把它編在任性條例裡面國土安全任性條例裡面有編列進去預算裡面不知道有沒有防救災緊急衛生物資整備編列15億8520就是這一次在中央的這個國土安全任性計畫條例裡面把它放進去預算如果有的話我認為這是真的是需要的然後第二個就是說因為過去我們內政部對於村裡這樣的一個集會所它的補助上限就是400萬\n155584\t164772\t就是四百萬而且這個已經將近二三十年來沒有調整過那四百萬是什麼概念我們知道你現在要蓋一個適當的空間那兩層樓兩層樓的話農場貴差不多三千萬所以縱使中央這個中央如果補助四百萬剩下的讓地方去找錢真的是\n177702\t204504\t很難啦 但地方也是會多少出一點錢 但是中央如果核定上限是四百萬的話基本上你要在中途然後來興建這樣的一個防災避難或者是村裡的集會所 事實上就是多功能的一個概念這個錢是不足的所以我們想說我們現在整個因為我們現在整個防災要有更新的思維然後村民的一個避難空間是要有足夠的空間這個預算是不足的\n207047\t210922\t是完全不足我們今天8月的時候前瞻預算已經全部用完了\n212335\t236654\t是所以不夠所以對剛剛委員所提到的部分第一個我們是不是依照鄉鎮因為你一定要有主要的一個避難中心那避難中心不一定是村裡辦公室通常都是活動中心或者是國小國中這些那我們會在所謂的國土的維生物資整備上面包括您剛所提到不是冷氣機是緊急發電機或是緊急要用的電源\n237435\t261802\t那按照我們的防災協作中心的方式來做大量的配備好那這樣子的部分的會比較好比如說現在再去找經費把所有的村裡集會活動所全部再重新修繕這可能會曠日廢時我們現在就是先準備一下現在如果有必須要這個疏散或是收容的時候呢怎麼樣把裡面的設備設施把它加強跟補強甚至呢他有物資有集放\n262202\t290433\t的地方比較安全的地方比如說我剛才說的緊急發電機或者是有什麼柴油的部分啦或者是緊急的濾水設備因為如果你要到收容安置的地方第一個只是做維生而已啦你不可能說從那吃喝玩樂都很好的部長當然沒有要到所謂口但是我要跟部長說有水有電有的吃有的睡但是我要跟部長說因為很多老人家他們如果是淹水的話你要叫他移動到\n292473\t300955\t鄉鎮 可能設備雖然比較好 可是他就是不想離開他們會 寧可會在村裡 村裡的一個集會所因為你要叫他再跨 跨出那個增淘如果 當然如果這次花蓮的狀況 另當別論嘛 那是強制撤離但是有的時候是 因處因罪 然後我們就說 你離開你的家裡到村來的一個安置空間可是這個安置空間的環境是不足的\n318658\t322181\t所以我才會藉由這個村裡的這個如果要興建一個村裡的適當的集會所預算不足這件事情想要跟部長討論說能不能用這個機會來做整體的一個考量報告委員我們現在的錢真的八月用完了看可不可以在財政收支劃分法裡面請地方政府多擔待一點我們真的是講我們實際上的狀況\n341735\t359526\t沒有沒有關係我是覺得這個可以來檢討防災協作中心的話基本上我們的設計是以每個村裡辦公室來處理包括未來有防災所需要的替代役的人力我們的規劃大概是每個地方希望能夠有20到50個人來協助做疏散撤離\n360286\t377461\t是協助做收容安置的人力上面的需求大概基本上是我們這方面但是硬體設備都村裡辦公室全部做修繕這個對我們民政單位來講民政司來講這個預算量太大我們沒有辦法在這個地方跟委員說我們一定能夠爭取得到好 了解\n","txt":"謝謝召委破例給我三分鐘那我是不是請我們內政部部長請部長蔡委員好部長部長我們經歷了從7月丹納斯R728的強降雨到後來花蓮的這一次的災害\n事實上我們看到了很多居民在避難在做防災避難的時候空間的不足那空間的不足主要就是說因為居民如果要緊急避難的話最好的地方就是那個正頭要有一個防災避難所\n阿或者是他有很多正宅的物品必須要放在一個空間這最好的就是村裡辦公室啦是的但是我們知道有很多村裡辦公室真的是老化老化到齁第一你在那個空間你就覺得嗯它的味道就是已經很老的房子了味道也不好再來沒空調你知道如果真的有居民我們地方齁有在水災的時候有的大人齁去那個村裡\n那個活動中心那時候好熱耶 熱到沒有空調叫他在那邊睡一晚 睡好幾晚真的痛苦到村長要穿冷氣 冷氣之後要去載冰鋼來不是 穿電風 電風之後要載冰鋼用電風打冷氣吹給那些老人家在那邊他才有辦法有一個空間所以事實上呈現出來就是說\n我們村裡這個防災避難的空間不是沒有就是老化因為有很多是特別的空間所以我們看到這一次我們的特別預算在編列的時候我本來我就漏掉了這一項事實上特別預算對於鄉鎮村裡活動中心的防災準備空間是沒有編列這樣的預算這個我覺得好可惜這個應該要編列的\n我們有把它編在任性條例裡面國土安全任性條例裡面有編列進去預算裡面不知道有沒有防救災緊急衛生物資整備編列15億8520就是這一次在中央的這個國土安全任性計畫條例裡面把它放進去預算如果有的話我認為這是真的是需要的然後第二個就是說因為過去我們內政部對於村裡這樣的一個集會所它的補助上限就是400萬\n就是四百萬而且這個已經將近二三十年來沒有調整過那四百萬是什麼概念我們知道你現在要蓋一個適當的空間那兩層樓兩層樓的話農場貴差不多三千萬所以縱使中央這個中央如果補助四百萬剩下的讓地方去找錢真的是\n很難啦 但地方也是會多少出一點錢 但是中央如果核定上限是四百萬的話基本上你要在中途然後來興建這樣的一個防災避難或者是村裡的集會所 事實上就是多功能的一個概念這個錢是不足的所以我們想說我們現在整個因為我們現在整個防災要有更新的思維然後村民的一個避難空間是要有足夠的空間這個預算是不足的\n是完全不足我們今天8月的時候前瞻預算已經全部用完了\n是所以不夠所以對剛剛委員所提到的部分第一個我們是不是依照鄉鎮因為你一定要有主要的一個避難中心那避難中心不一定是村裡辦公室通常都是活動中心或者是國小國中這些那我們會在所謂的國土的維生物資整備上面包括您剛所提到不是冷氣機是緊急發電機或是緊急要用的電源\n那按照我們的防災協作中心的方式來做大量的配備好那這樣子的部分的會比較好比如說現在再去找經費把所有的村裡集會活動所全部再重新修繕這可能會曠日廢時我們現在就是先準備一下現在如果有必須要這個疏散或是收容的時候呢怎麼樣把裡面的設備設施把它加強跟補強甚至呢他有物資有集放\n的地方比較安全的地方比如說我剛才說的緊急發電機或者是有什麼柴油的部分啦或者是緊急的濾水設備因為如果你要到收容安置的地方第一個只是做維生而已啦你不可能說從那吃喝玩樂都很好的部長當然沒有要到所謂口但是我要跟部長說有水有電有的吃有的睡但是我要跟部長說因為很多老人家他們如果是淹水的話你要叫他移動到\n鄉鎮 可能設備雖然比較好 可是他就是不想離開他們會 寧可會在村裡 村裡的一個集會所因為你要叫他再跨 跨出那個增淘如果 當然如果這次花蓮的狀況 另當別論嘛 那是強制撤離但是有的時候是 因處因罪 然後我們就說 你離開你的家裡到村來的一個安置空間可是這個安置空間的環境是不足的\n所以我才會藉由這個村裡的這個如果要興建一個村裡的適當的集會所預算不足這件事情想要跟部長討論說能不能用這個機會來做整體的一個考量報告委員我們現在的錢真的八月用完了看可不可以在財政收支劃分法裡面請地方政府多擔待一點我們真的是講我們實際上的狀況\n沒有沒有關係我是覺得這個可以來檢討防災協作中心的話基本上我們的設計是以每個村裡辦公室來處理包括未來有防災所需要的替代役的人力我們的規劃大概是每個地方希望能夠有20到50個人來協助做疏散撤離\n是協助做收容安置的人力上面的需求大概基本上是我們這方面但是硬體設備都村裡辦公室全部做修繕這個對我們民政單位來講民政司來講這個預算量太大我們沒有辦法在這個地方跟委員說我們一定能夠爭取得到好 了解\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.676 --> 00:13.060\n謝謝召委破例給我三分鐘那我是不是請我們內政部部長請部長蔡委員好部長部長我們經歷了從7月丹納斯R728的強降雨到後來花蓮的這一次的災害\n\n00:25.683 --> 00:41.471\n事實上我們看到了很多居民在避難在做防災避難的時候空間的不足那空間的不足主要就是說因為居民如果要緊急避難的話最好的地方就是那個正頭要有一個防災避難所\n\n00:44.252 --> 01:07.864\n阿或者是他有很多正宅的物品必須要放在一個空間這最好的就是村裡辦公室啦是的但是我們知道有很多村裡辦公室真的是老化老化到齁第一你在那個空間你就覺得嗯它的味道就是已經很老的房子了味道也不好再來沒空調你知道如果真的有居民我們地方齁有在水災的時候有的大人齁去那個村裡\n\n01:10.845 --> 01:15.629\n那個活動中心那時候好熱耶熱到沒有空調叫他在那邊睡一晚睡好幾晚真的痛苦到村長要穿冷氣冷氣之後要去載冰鋼來不是穿電風電風之後要載冰鋼用電風打冷氣吹給那些老人家在那邊他才有辦法有一個空間所以事實上呈現出來就是說\n\n01:38.488 --> 01:47.710\n我們村裡這個防災避難的空間不是沒有就是老化因為有很多是特別的空間所以我們看到這一次我們的特別預算在編列的時候我本來我就漏掉了這一項事實上特別預算對於鄉鎮村裡活動中心的防災準備空間是沒有編列這樣的預算這個我覺得好可惜這個應該要編列的\n\n02:05.955 --> 02:34.033\n我們有把它編在任性條例裡面國土安全任性條例裡面有編列進去預算裡面不知道有沒有防救災緊急衛生物資整備編列15億8520就是這一次在中央的這個國土安全任性計畫條例裡面把它放進去預算如果有的話我認為這是真的是需要的然後第二個就是說因為過去我們內政部對於村裡這樣的一個集會所它的補助上限就是400萬\n\n02:35.584 --> 02:44.772\n就是四百萬而且這個已經將近二三十年來沒有調整過那四百萬是什麼概念我們知道你現在要蓋一個適當的空間那兩層樓兩層樓的話農場貴差不多三千萬所以縱使中央這個中央如果補助四百萬剩下的讓地方去找錢真的是\n\n02:57.702 --> 03:24.504\n很難啦但地方也是會多少出一點錢但是中央如果核定上限是四百萬的話基本上你要在中途然後來興建這樣的一個防災避難或者是村裡的集會所事實上就是多功能的一個概念這個錢是不足的所以我們想說我們現在整個因為我們現在整個防災要有更新的思維然後村民的一個避難空間是要有足夠的空間這個預算是不足的\n\n03:27.047 --> 03:30.922\n是完全不足我們今天8月的時候前瞻預算已經全部用完了\n\n03:32.335 --> 03:56.654\n是所以不夠所以對剛剛委員所提到的部分第一個我們是不是依照鄉鎮因為你一定要有主要的一個避難中心那避難中心不一定是村裡辦公室通常都是活動中心或者是國小國中這些那我們會在所謂的國土的維生物資整備上面包括您剛所提到不是冷氣機是緊急發電機或是緊急要用的電源\n\n03:57.435 --> 04:21.802\n那按照我們的防災協作中心的方式來做大量的配備好那這樣子的部分的會比較好比如說現在再去找經費把所有的村裡集會活動所全部再重新修繕這可能會曠日廢時我們現在就是先準備一下現在如果有必須要這個疏散或是收容的時候呢怎麼樣把裡面的設備設施把它加強跟補強甚至呢他有物資有集放\n\n04:22.202 --> 04:50.433\n的地方比較安全的地方比如說我剛才說的緊急發電機或者是有什麼柴油的部分啦或者是緊急的濾水設備因為如果你要到收容安置的地方第一個只是做維生而已啦你不可能說從那吃喝玩樂都很好的部長當然沒有要到所謂口但是我要跟部長說有水有電有的吃有的睡但是我要跟部長說因為很多老人家他們如果是淹水的話你要叫他移動到\n\n04:52.473 --> 05:00.955\n鄉鎮可能設備雖然比較好可是他就是不想離開他們會寧可會在村裡村裡的一個集會所因為你要叫他再跨跨出那個增淘如果當然如果這次花蓮的狀況另當別論嘛那是強制撤離但是有的時候是因處因罪然後我們就說你離開你的家裡到村來的一個安置空間可是這個安置空間的環境是不足的\n\n05:18.658 --> 05:22.181\n所以我才會藉由這個村裡的這個如果要興建一個村裡的適當的集會所預算不足這件事情想要跟部長討論說能不能用這個機會來做整體的一個考量報告委員我們現在的錢真的八月用完了看可不可以在財政收支劃分法裡面請地方政府多擔待一點我們真的是講我們實際上的狀況\n\n05:41.735 --> 05:59.526\n沒有沒有關係我是覺得這個可以來檢討防災協作中心的話基本上我們的設計是以每個村裡辦公室來處理包括未來有防災所需要的替代役的人力我們的規劃大概是每個地方希望能夠有20到50個人來協助做疏散撤離\n\n06:00.286 --> 06:17.461\n是協助做收容安置的人力上面的需求大概基本上是我們這方面但是硬體設備都村裡辦公室全部做修繕這個對我們民政單位來講民政司來講這個預算量太大我們沒有辦法在這個地方跟委員說我們一定能夠爭取得到好了解\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.676,"end":13.06,"text":"謝謝召委破例給我三分鐘那我是不是請我們內政部部長請部長蔡委員好部長部長我們經歷了從7月丹納斯R728的強降雨到後來花蓮的這一次的災害"},{"start":25.683,"end":41.471,"text":"事實上我們看到了很多居民在避難在做防災避難的時候空間的不足那空間的不足主要就是說因為居民如果要緊急避難的話最好的地方就是那個正頭要有一個防災避難所"},{"start":44.252,"end":67.864,"text":"阿或者是他有很多正宅的物品必須要放在一個空間這最好的就是村裡辦公室啦是的但是我們知道有很多村裡辦公室真的是老化老化到齁第一你在那個空間你就覺得嗯它的味道就是已經很老的房子了味道也不好再來沒空調你知道如果真的有居民我們地方齁有在水災的時候有的大人齁去那個村裡"},{"start":70.845,"end":75.629,"text":"那個活動中心那時候好熱耶 熱到沒有空調叫他在那邊睡一晚 睡好幾晚真的痛苦到村長要穿冷氣 冷氣之後要去載冰鋼來不是 穿電風 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事實上就是多功能的一個概念這個錢是不足的所以我們想說我們現在整個因為我們現在整個防災要有更新的思維然後村民的一個避難空間是要有足夠的空間這個預算是不足的"},{"start":207.047,"end":210.922,"text":"是完全不足我們今天8月的時候前瞻預算已經全部用完了"},{"start":212.335,"end":236.654,"text":"是所以不夠所以對剛剛委員所提到的部分第一個我們是不是依照鄉鎮因為你一定要有主要的一個避難中心那避難中心不一定是村裡辦公室通常都是活動中心或者是國小國中這些那我們會在所謂的國土的維生物資整備上面包括您剛所提到不是冷氣機是緊急發電機或是緊急要用的電源"},{"start":237.435,"end":261.802,"text":"那按照我們的防災協作中心的方式來做大量的配備好那這樣子的部分的會比較好比如說現在再去找經費把所有的村裡集會活動所全部再重新修繕這可能會曠日廢時我們現在就是先準備一下現在如果有必須要這個疏散或是收容的時候呢怎麼樣把裡面的設備設施把它加強跟補強甚至呢他有物資有集放"},{"start":262.202,"end":290.433,"text":"的地方比較安全的地方比如說我剛才說的緊急發電機或者是有什麼柴油的部分啦或者是緊急的濾水設備因為如果你要到收容安置的地方第一個只是做維生而已啦你不可能說從那吃喝玩樂都很好的部長當然沒有要到所謂口但是我要跟部長說有水有電有的吃有的睡但是我要跟部長說因為很多老人家他們如果是淹水的話你要叫他移動到"},{"start":292.473,"end":300.955,"text":"鄉鎮 可能設備雖然比較好 可是他就是不想離開他們會 寧可會在村裡 村裡的一個集會所因為你要叫他再跨 跨出那個增淘如果 當然如果這次花蓮的狀況 另當別論嘛 那是強制撤離但是有的時候是 因處因罪 然後我們就說 你離開你的家裡到村來的一個安置空間可是這個安置空間的環境是不足的"},{"start":318.658,"end":322.181,"text":"所以我才會藉由這個村裡的這個如果要興建一個村裡的適當的集會所預算不足這件事情想要跟部長討論說能不能用這個機會來做整體的一個考量報告委員我們現在的錢真的八月用完了看可不可以在財政收支劃分法裡面請地方政府多擔待一點我們真的是講我們實際上的狀況"},{"start":341.735,"end":359.526,"text":"沒有沒有關係我是覺得這個可以來檢討防災協作中心的話基本上我們的設計是以每個村裡辦公室來處理包括未來有防災所需要的替代役的人力我們的規劃大概是每個地方希望能夠有20到50個人來協助做疏散撤離"},{"start":360.286,"end":377.461,"text":"是協助做收容安置的人力上面的需求大概基本上是我們這方面但是硬體設備都村裡辦公室全部做修繕這個對我們民政單位來講民政司來講這個預算量太大我們沒有辦法在這個地方跟委員說我們一定能夠爭取得到好 了解"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1443,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（14時2分）謝謝召委破例給我3分鐘，請內政部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["劉部長世芳：蔡委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，經歷了7月的丹娜絲颱風、728的強降雨，到後來花蓮這次災害，事實上，我們看到很多居民防災、避難空間的不足。面對空間不足，如果居民要緊急避難的話，最好的方式就是該村莊要有一處防災避難所，或者有很多賑災物品必須放在一個空間時，最好的地方就是村里辦公室。"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：但是我們知道，很多村里辦公室真的是老化，老化到一進入那個空間，就能從味道察覺是很老的房屋了，所以味道不好。再來是沒有空調，你可知道，地方發生水災的時候，有些長輩必須到村里活動中心，結果很熱、沒有空調，卻要叫他睡一晚、甚至睡好幾晚，真的痛苦到村長必須裝設冷氣，裝完冷氣還要載冰塊來……不是啦！是送電風扇來，送了電風扇還要載冰塊，再用電風扇把冷氣吹送給老人家，他才有辦法使用那裡的空間，所以呈現出來的就是村裡防災避難的空間不是沒有、就是老化，也有很多是向廟宇借用空間。在這次編列特別預算的時候，我本來漏掉這一項，事實上，在特別預算中，沒有編列鄉鎮村里活動中心防災整備空間這樣的預算，但我覺得好可惜，這是應該編列的。"],["劉部長世芳：我們有把它編在韌性條例裡面，國土安全韌性條例裡面有編列進去。"],["蔡委員易餘：不過不知道預算裡面有沒有。"],["劉部長世芳：有啊！"],["蔡委員易餘：有嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：防救災緊急維生物資整備編列15億8,520萬元，就是依照這次中央的國土安全韌性計畫條例放進去預算。有放在裡面，就是針對防災協作中心。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，如果有的話，我認為這真的是需要的。","第二，過去內政部對於村里這樣的集會所，補助上限就是400萬元，而且二、三十年來沒調整過。400萬元是什麼概念呢？我們知道現在若要興建一處適當的空間、兩層樓的話，差不多都超過3,000萬元啦！所以縱使中央補助400萬元，剩下的錢讓地方去找也真的很難。地方多少也會出一點錢，但是中央如果核定上限是400萬元的話，基本上要在村莊興建這樣的防災避難中心或村里集會所─事實上就是多功能的概念，那麼這樣的錢是不足的。我想，現在整體防災要有更新的思維，村民避難必須有足夠的空間，這種預算是不足的。"],["劉部長世芳：是，完全不足，今年8月的時候，前瞻預算已經全部用完了，所以不夠。至於剛剛委員提到的部分，第一，是不是依照鄉鎮處理？因為一定要有主要的避難中心，而避難中心不一定是村里辦公室，通常都是活動中心或者國小、國中這些地點。在國土維生物資整備上會包括您剛剛所提到的……不是冷氣機啦！而是緊急發電機，或是緊急時要用的電源，並按照防災協作中心的方式作大量配備，這樣會比較好。假如現在再去找經費把所有村里集會活動所重新修繕，可能曠日廢時，所以我們就是先準備一下，現在如果有必須疏散或收容的時候，怎麼樣把裡面的設備、設施予以加強跟補強，甚至要有物資集放上比較安全的地方，譬如說我剛才提到的緊急發電機、柴油或者緊急濾水設備。到了收容安置的地方，第一個要求只是維生而已啦！不可能吃喝玩樂功能都很好，對不對？"],["蔡委員易餘：沒有，部長，當然沒有要到那樣，但是……"],["劉部長世芳：有水、有電、有得吃、有得睡。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，有水、有電。但是我要跟部長說，對於很多老人家來說，如果因為淹水要叫他移動到鄉鎮，就算設備可能比較好，他也不想離開，他們會寧可留在村里集會所……"],["劉部長世芳：我知道，所以就會……"],["蔡委員易餘：你要叫他跨出該村莊……當然，如果是這次花蓮的狀況當然另當別論，那是強制撤離。但是有時候是他們家中淹水，我們勸說他們離開家裡……"],["劉部長世芳：收容安置。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，到村內安置空間，可是該村內安置空間的環境是不足的，所以我才會藉由村里要興建適當集會所卻預算不足這件事情，跟部長討論能不能用這個機會作整體考量。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們的錢真的在八月用完了，要看看可不可以依照財政收支劃分法請地方政府多擔待一點。我真的是講我們實際上的狀況。"],["蔡委員易餘：沒有關係，我是覺得這個可以檢討啦！"],["劉部長世芳：至於防災協作中心的話，基本上的設計是以每個村里辦公室來處理，包括未來有防災所需要的替代役人力，我們的規劃大概是希望每個地方有20到50人協助疏散撤離或是滿足收容安置人力上的需求，基本上是往這方面。但是硬體設備上，如果村里辦公室要全部修繕，這對民政司來講預算量太大，我們沒有辦法在這邊跟委員說一定爭取得到。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，了解。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","委員翁曉玲、丁學忠、高金素梅所提書面質詢列入紀錄，並刊登公報。書面質詢和未及答復部分請相關單位於1周內書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-3","speakers":["黃建賓","王美惠","張宏陸","蘇巧慧","黃捷","許宇甄","高金素梅","傅崐萁","牛煦庭","李柏毅","張智倫","吳琪銘","林德福","徐欣瑩","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra 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