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\"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 937.244, \"end\": 937.544, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 937.544, \"end\": 937.784, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 937.784, \"end\": 937.924, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 937.924, \"end\": 938.024, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 938.024, \"end\": 938.064, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 938.064, \"end\": 938.164, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 938.164, \"end\": 938.484, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"溯\", \"start\": 938.484, \"end\": 938.664, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 938.664, \"end\": 938.885, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"找\", \"start\": 938.885, \"end\": 939.065, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 939.065, \"end\": 939.965, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 939.965, \"end\": 940.185, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 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950.149, \"end\": 950.31, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 950.31, \"end\": 950.33, \"score\": 0.614}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:23,757 --> 00:00:28,018\n謝謝副院長麻煩我們卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:41,251 --> 00:00:58,946\n我今天先就教幾個我們在地方上非常關注的重大建設它的進度那我們都知道政府的施政當然是需要時間不管從規劃可行性分析一直走到環評環評過了之後還有相關預算框列等等\n\n3\n00:00:59,727 --> 00:01:19,390\n但是總是建設是逐步逐步暗部就幫往前走但在地方期待的時候有時候進度的掌握會讓人民曉得這個政府在做什麼所以我先就叫幾個大的案子第一個台86線也就是從喜樹一路往關廟那現在計畫要打通到淚門\n\n4\n00:01:21,272 --> 00:01:37,729\n這對高雄的北邊岐山內門一直到我們台南的南側它的交通動脈是非常重要的一個建設那我也長期在爭取跟追蹤當中所以我先請教第一個我們現在不管年節甚至於平常上下班\n\n5\n00:01:38,490 --> 00:01:52,175\n在台86跟這一個國道3號光廟交流道呢都回堵到二高上面也回堵到歸人的交流道它已經是經常性的現象每一次上下班住在那邊的人\n\n6\n00:01:53,151 --> 00:02:19,286\n能烙到就烙到那從前幾任的行政院長開始進行那一直到現在我們第一段有關86號跨越台19甲也就是往光廟新化的這一段目前的進度已經環評完成環境部也報了那現在交通部公路總局提報建設計畫在9月8號送進行政院審議這個審議核定了\n\n7\n00:02:21,067 --> 00:02:43,133\n接下來就是發包施工我們在地方也跟公路總局當地有一個一貫道的總堂我們都希望那個橋嫁接的時候在民間信仰上尊重他們都協調完了我把社會成本可能導致的阻礙都已經溝通完了所以我第一個問題很簡單現在行政院審議9月8號到現在什麼時候可以審議完成\n\n8\n00:02:47,997 --> 00:02:59,788\n目前我們已經送到行政院在審議當中目前審議的過程當中如果還有其他各部會的意見我們也會一起來做說明說明完之後行政院應該會蠻快速來審議通過\n\n9\n00:03:01,249 --> 00:03:17,865\n因為9月8號送上來審議了現在已經是10月13、14了所以應該是我們的業務單位業務處正在審理當中那最後還會經過綜合性的這個討論再回到這個最終的大概何時可以今年可以審議完成嗎\n\n10\n00:03:19,286 --> 00:03:45,525\n我會促成讓他今年一定完成今年要過了嘛我們希望今年把審議完成環境部的部分已經OK了啦現在已經是最後審議階段那另外一側另外一側就是走原來貢獻因為我們怕傷害原來的環境那邊有二地形越世界的地形等等所以從182線原來的四道原來線道現在是四道延伸到五經兩準打民粹道過這一個內門這一段\n\n11\n00:03:48,267 --> 00:04:08,468\n現在是交通部公路總局提報環評報告給環境部審查嘛那這一塊現在進度下一個階段什麼時候可以進行保委員現在這個是在程序當中我不能因為這個環評是獨立審查但是我們現在呢其實環評我們希望說專業的審查讓專家因為這一段有經過敏感地形對\n\n12\n00:04:09,649 --> 00:04:26,264\n這一段有經過這個紐譜啦這些破碎帶等等我是支持環評嚴審但是進度要讓人家掌握到我們常常看到一件事情上去兩三個月都沒消息也許你們做了很多民眾不知道所以後面在\n\n13\n00:04:29,207 --> 00:04:47,900\n東側這一段靠近高雄岐山田寮這一段現在在環評當中嘛你們有沒有預計這個環評抓多久的工作時間報告委員我們現在環評大概一般的平均來說的話大概是說半年以內會可以告一個段落但是就要看它複雜的程度啦所以我們還是尊重這個環評委員的專業\n\n14\n00:04:49,481 --> 00:05:12,536\n這一塊其實已經經過歐新等等環民做很多次了因為做很多次反而大家都了解會比較快呢還是因為做很多次所以比較複雜會跑比較慢你的判斷現在其實我們的委員都很專業但是我委員報告委員因為有些人會說我們這個開快車基本上這個都是按照一個程序在走我們不會給他特別的關注\n\n15\n00:05:12,956 --> 00:05:35,928\n或是給他們任何的壓力都是他們獨立在做所以後段現在環評當中平均時間是半年但是我們尊重環評委員會獨立審查我們平均左右前段也就是塞車最嚴重的官票交流到這一塊環評OK了大概意見都一致了現在就等行政院核定那行政院在年底前我們希望能夠核定接下來就是準備發包施工相關的工作\n\n16\n00:05:36,468 --> 00:05:54,619\n好那另外呢昨天我謝謝鄭麗君副院長來到台南我們在沙崙國中有進行一個跟地方面對面的溝通其中台南市政府也是我們地方的需求提了ABCD四個案子這四個案子呢第一個案呢是把台86線這個台86線現在是一個交通大動脈\n\n17\n00:06:00,902 --> 00:06:28,072\n早晚嚴重塞車的地方所以有時候我們要趕高鐵要走這條線要去關廟走這條線往另外一側呢到台南機場要走這條線到西濱快遙走這條線我告訴你真的趕路的人我不敢上去我都走區域道路因為他一直都塞住的所以我曾經在從林泉院長到賴清德院長到蘇貞昌院長到陳建仁院長我每次都質詢說\n\n18\n00:06:29,892 --> 00:06:50,540\n86號已經固定了可是下面的側邊道下面有一個單側的一側往東一側往西應該善用下面這個側邊道把它拓寬讓地區的人可以透過這個解決塞車之苦那台南市政府也提一個案子53億要把\n\n19\n00:06:51,640 --> 00:07:16,832\n台灣東西向台86號東西向的下面的側邊道各拓寬為8米雙線道一側由喜樹灣里往觀廟一側是由觀廟往西向喜樹灣里這可以有效減緩疏解台86東西塊上面的塞車現象我想這個部分從陳士凱擔任部長以來我們這個案子\n\n20\n00:07:17,632 --> 00:07:45,017\n關心很久那現在呢台南市政府已經提一個53億的案子我待會詢問你進度第二個案子是有關高鐵特定區這邊是我們的綠能AI非常重要的一個區域那台86號呢是在這個區域的北側永瑟事實上在南側呢如果台南市政府提出一個把國道3田寮休息站官廟休息站跟國道1的\n\n21\n00:07:45,777 --> 00:08:06,657\n仁德休息站那邊有一個長榮路如果把這兩條連結起來的話我等於用最便宜的預算在南側開闢了一個你類似的快速道路而且他會加會台南沙崙智慧綠能科學城以及高雄從陸竹以北這個區塊\n\n22\n00:08:08,214 --> 00:08:34,857\n又不用用快速道路這麼高額的預算當然他現在快331億我認為是核實之後未必要那麼高這是第二個第三個是南157道這個圖片上有他是一個在我們現在高鐵的歸人交流道嚴重塞車在後端迎接的AI沙輪以及成大沙輪園區一個新的交流道一個大道\n\n23\n00:08:35,357 --> 00:08:54,065\n那第一這個案子呢是屬於園區內的鋪面我就不再引述了這四個案子其中ABC案呢准許謝謝鎮議院副院長來我們當面溝通這三個案子我不曉得部長或院長有沒有掌握到目前可以核准的或要進行研擬的是哪些案子\n\n24\n00:08:55,189 --> 00:09:24,011\n好報告委員針對A案的部分我們會建議透過生活圈道路的申請我們也會來協助台南市政府因為他們已經提出案子了嘛那之前是沒有案子那現在已經提出案子我們就來協助他用生活圈道路的方式目前ABC我focus在這三案A案86下面側邊道的拓寬B案其實B案是一個非常有創意又可以減低工程衝擊把你看關廟休息站\n\n25\n00:09:24,807 --> 00:09:44,560\n跟仁德休息站用現在長榮大學外面那條長榮路把它拓寬把它整個串接起來這條路開闢起來的話會非常有效果因為我們現在台南人都知道我們仁德交流道以南天天都是那個是時時刻刻都在塞車他得把兩個休息站當交流道用\n\n26\n00:09:45,501 --> 00:10:09,217\n把兩個休息站當交流道用然後把它關這一個我請交通部好好研擬這個案子可能要好好去思考但A案跟C案你能不能允諾來支持這兩個案子這兩個案子講很久了我們會來協助市政府透過生活圈道路的申請模式來申請那另外一方面就是說如果假使經費不夠的話或許國科會這兩個A跟C案用生活圈道路一定不夠啦\n\n27\n00:10:10,154 --> 00:10:32,859\n我們來申請看如果不行的話就是國科會他們針對這個南科產業第四期計劃他也有一些預算可以來協助我希望行政院跟陳士凱部長這邊ABC三個案請你們列管其中A跟C案如果可以統一競訴統一因為其中86號下面的車變道我已經追了快八九年了\n\n28\n00:10:34,502 --> 00:11:00,507\n那好不容易這案子慢慢現在成熟了而且現在不做將來一定後悔因為越來越貴而且它旁邊的需求量越來越大而你做了之後對於從奇美博物館台南機場喜樹喜樹灣這邊其實那邊是紅色海灘整個在戰略上的需求經濟上的需求以及新的成大醫院沙崙園區它整個會串聯AI園區都會串聯在一起你慢慢走下去\n\n29\n00:11:01,762 --> 00:11:19,304\n願慢做他的永篩會越久所以院長你的態度報告委員就依現在剛剛部長答覆的A案C案這兩案子我會請國發會國歌會一起來討論這個事情我們中共共建設跟這個南科的整個發展區域性的發展我們共同來討論這個事情儘快把它做一個\n\n30\n00:11:20,526 --> 00:11:50,266\n有進度的時間讓他出來讓民眾知道我們下一步是什麼下一步是什麼什麼時候可以開始動主具體讓納稅人了解進度是很重要的好重大尤其重大建設對民眾來講他可能不曉得可行性分析他也不了解規劃他不曉得這些行政過程那我們政府有一個責任就是重大建設要讓民眾用最簡單的方式了解現在進度到哪裡這個我可以拜託行政院\n\n31\n00:11:50,986 --> 00:12:11,414\n好另外呢另外這個交通建設案以外呢我可能先請兩位部長下去了我們請法務部上來好不好基隆之前的民政處處長張淵祥他私底下他的權責他是管護證的\n\n32\n00:12:13,448 --> 00:12:20,316\n結果他為了去罷免民進黨籍的市議員私底下把戶政事務所的資料庫打開\n\n33\n00:12:22,066 --> 00:12:47,158\n讓他們方便連署本案已經起訴也判刑一年十個月了部長知道這個案嗎我今天不是要你談個案我覺得作為一個立法委員老是在國會殿堂質詢個案這個是非常不妥適的但我現在講說那個案子已經審判了就是謝國良的民政處長偷偷拿民政處的戶政資料提供出去讓人家弄連署\n\n34\n00:12:48,979 --> 00:13:05,845\n這個罷免民進黨籍的基隆市議員後來現在被判刑一年十個月所以這違法很明確那我現在請教如果用駭客的方式駭進戶政機關把戶政機關裡面的個資把它拿出來這個有沒有違法\n\n35\n00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:34,949\n這個駭客這個有妨害使用電腦罪這個是有刑法358、359條的這個樣態有沒有比那個張淵祥的案子更嚴重這個當然是很不應該啦這個是很嚴重的行為那這個是五年以下有期徒刑的罪那另外呢利用駭客的技術把準官方機構類似央廣啦或者中央社啊這種我把你換成五星旗\n\n36\n00:13:36,375 --> 00:14:05,376\n這個行為抓到的話這個涉犯什麼法律這個有那個有這個有甚至有個資法的一個問題那還有那個這個要違反有違反相關刑法相關刑法這個像這個案件是北檢有在偵辦中的去偷個資是一個法律用駭客手段也是一個法律嘛他等於是有兩個違法所以我現在請教我們目前國家像我們訴發部我們治安署我們\n\n37\n00:14:06,196 --> 00:14:31,743\n我們治安辦啊甚至於國安局啊我們部隊都有類似這樣的這個知通安的相關的建制如果有人比方說有人找了駭客駭進去戶政事務所駭進去官方網站把他置換的時候我們有沒有能力回頭溯源知道IP在哪裡範銜在哪裡這是一個偵辦的技巧嘛有沒有能力部長\n\n38\n00:14:33,344 --> 00:14:48,195\n如果發生這樣的狀況的話,我們會儘速的派人去...以你了解,因為我現在講說,這樣子的樣態,我們有沒有能力回溯出范嫻的所在跟身份?\n\n39\n00:14:49,196 --> 00:15:14,556\n是這個要看那個犯案人員他用什麼樣的方法沒有在境外有沒有能力境外的話我們可能要檢查他的那個log他的那個記錄那看是不是能找到他的那個他用跳接的VPN的方式境內境外跳來跳去以你們現在能力有沒有辦法掌握這個要看那個駭客他的技巧到什麼樣的程度這個案子不能小覷喔如果今天我找了\n\n40\n00:15:15,336 --> 00:15:42,726\n其實政治人物不應該找駭客去駭民間的資料庫或公家的資料庫是這是嚴重侵權這在美國FBI是重罪如果在美國FBI是重罪他們抓到好幾個中國有五個去駭進他們的資料庫全球通緝所以這個是重罪所以你們的能力如果有辦法溯源找到我覺得應該盡速偵辦嚇阻這樣的行為好不好\n\n41\n00:15:49,386 --> 00:15:50,330\n好谢谢谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n23757\t28018\t謝謝副院長麻煩我們卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢\n41251\t58946\t我今天先就教幾個我們在地方上非常關注的重大建設它的進度那我們都知道政府的施政當然是需要時間不管從規劃可行性分析一直走到環評環評過了之後還有相關預算框列等等\n59727\t79390\t但是總是建設是逐步逐步暗部就幫往前走但在地方期待的時候有時候進度的掌握會讓人民曉得這個政府在做什麼所以我先就叫幾個大的案子第一個台86線也就是從喜樹一路往關廟那現在計畫要打通到淚門\n81272\t97729\t這對高雄的北邊 岐山內門一直到我們台南的南側它的交通動脈是非常重要的一個建設那我也長期在爭取跟追蹤當中所以我先請教第一個我們現在不管年節甚至於平常上下班\n98490\t112175\t在台86跟這一個國道3號光廟交流道呢都回堵到二高上面也回堵到歸人的交流道它已經是經常性的現象每一次上下班住在那邊的人\n113151\t139286\t能烙到就烙到那從前幾任的行政院長開始進行那一直到現在我們第一段有關86號跨越台19甲也就是往光廟新化的這一段目前的進度已經環評完成環境部也報了那現在交通部公路總局提報建設計畫在9月8號送進行政院審議這個審議核定了\n141067\t163133\t接下來就是發包施工我們在地方也跟公路總局當地有一個一貫道的總堂我們都希望那個橋嫁接的時候在民間信仰上尊重他們都協調完了我把社會成本可能導致的阻礙都已經溝通完了所以我第一個問題很簡單現在行政院審議9月8號到現在什麼時候可以審議完成\n167997\t179788\t目前我們已經送到行政院在審議當中目前審議的過程當中如果還有其他各部會的意見我們也會一起來做說明說明完之後行政院應該會蠻快速來審議通過\n181249\t197865\t因為9月8號送上來審議了現在已經是10月13、14了所以應該是我們的業務單位業務處正在審理當中那最後還會經過綜合性的這個討論再回到這個最終的大概何時可以 今年可以審議完成嗎\n199286\t225525\t我會促成讓他今年一定完成今年要過了嘛我們希望今年把審議完成環境部的部分已經OK了啦現在已經是最後審議階段那另外一側另外一側就是走原來貢獻因為我們怕傷害原來的環境那邊有二地形越世界的地形等等所以從182線原來的四道原來線道現在是四道延伸到五經兩準打民粹道過這一個內門這一段\n228267\t248468\t現在是交通部公路總局提報環評報告給環境部審查嘛那這一塊現在進度下一個階段什麼時候可以進行保委員現在這個是在程序當中我不能因為這個環評是獨立審查但是我們現在呢其實環評我們希望說專業的審查讓專家因為這一段有經過敏感地形對\n249649\t266264\t這一段有經過這個紐譜啦這些破碎帶等等我是支持環評嚴審但是進度要讓人家掌握到我們常常看到一件事情上去兩三個月都沒消息也許你們做了很多民眾不知道所以後面在\n269207\t287900\t東側這一段靠近高雄岐山田寮這一段現在在環評當中嘛你們有沒有預計這個環評抓多久的工作時間報告委員我們現在環評大概一般的平均來說的話大概是說半年以內會可以告一個段落但是就要看它複雜的程度啦所以我們還是尊重這個環評委員的專業\n289481\t312536\t這一塊其實已經經過歐新等等環民做很多次了因為做很多次反而大家都了解會比較快呢還是因為做很多次所以比較複雜會跑比較慢 你的判斷現在其實我們的委員都很專業但是我委員 報告委員因為有些人會說我們這個開快車基本上這個都是按照一個程序在走我們不會給他特別的關注\n312956\t335928\t或是給他們任何的壓力都是他們獨立在做所以後段現在環評當中平均時間是半年但是我們尊重環評委員會獨立審查我們平均左右前段也就是塞車最嚴重的官票交流到這一塊環評OK了大概意見都一致了現在就等行政院核定那行政院在年底前我們希望能夠核定接下來就是準備發包施工相關的工作\n336468\t354619\t好 那另外呢昨天我謝謝鄭麗君副院長來到台南我們在沙崙國中有進行一個跟地方面對面的溝通其中台南市政府也是我們地方的需求提了ABCD四個案子這四個案子呢第一個案呢是把台86線這個台86線現在是一個交通大動脈\n360902\t388072\t早晚嚴重塞車的地方所以有時候我們要趕高鐵要走這條線要去關廟走這條線往另外一側呢到台南機場要走這條線到西濱快遙走這條線我告訴你真的趕路的人我不敢上去我都走區域道路因為他一直都塞住的所以我曾經在從林泉院長到賴清德院長到蘇貞昌院長到陳建仁院長我每次都質詢說\n389892\t410540\t86號已經固定了可是下面的側邊道下面有一個單側的一側往東一側往西應該善用下面這個側邊道把它拓寬讓地區的人可以透過這個解決塞車之苦那台南市政府也提一個案子53億要把\n411640\t436832\t台灣東西向台86號東西向的下面的側邊道各拓寬為8米雙線道一側由喜樹灣里往觀廟一側是由觀廟往西向喜樹灣里這可以有效減緩疏解台86東西塊上面的塞車現象我想這個部分從陳士凱擔任部長以來我們這個案子\n437632\t465017\t關心很久那現在呢台南市政府已經提一個53億的案子我待會詢問你進度第二個案子是有關高鐵特定區這邊是我們的綠能AI非常重要的一個區域那台86號呢是在這個區域的北側永瑟事實上在南側呢如果台南市政府提出一個把國道3田寮休息站官廟休息站跟國道1的\n465777\t486657\t仁德休息站那邊有一個長榮路如果把這兩條連結起來的話我等於用最便宜的預算在南側開闢了一個你類似的快速道路而且他會加會台南沙崙智慧綠能科學城以及高雄從陸竹以北這個區塊\n488214\t514857\t又不用用快速道路這麼高額的預算當然他現在快331億我認為是核實之後未必要那麼高這是第二個第三個是南157道這個圖片上有他是一個在我們現在高鐵的歸人交流道嚴重塞車在後端迎接的AI沙輪以及成大沙輪園區一個新的交流道一個大道\n515357\t534065\t那第一這個案子呢是屬於園區內的鋪面我就不再引述了這四個案子其中ABC案呢准許謝謝鎮議院副院長來我們當面溝通這三個案子我不曉得部長或院長有沒有掌握到目前可以核准的或要進行研擬的是哪些案子\n535189\t564011\t好 報告委員針對A案的部分我們會建議透過生活圈道路的申請我們也會來協助台南市政府因為他們已經提出案子了嘛那之前是沒有案子那現在已經提出案子我們就來協助他用生活圈道路的方式目前A B C我focus在這三案A案86下面側邊道的拓寬B案其實B案是一個非常有創意又可以減低工程衝擊把 你看關廟休息站\n564807\t584560\t跟仁德休息站用現在長榮大學外面那條長榮路把它拓寬把它整個串接起來這條路開闢起來的話會非常有效果因為我們現在台南人都知道我們仁德交流道以南天天都是那個是時時刻刻都在塞車他得把兩個休息站當交流道用\n585501\t609217\t把兩個休息站當交流道用然後把它關這一個我請交通部好好研擬這個案子可能要好好去思考但A案跟C案你能不能允諾來支持這兩個案子這兩個案子講很久了我們會來協助市政府透過生活圈道路的申請模式來申請那另外一方面就是說如果假使經費不夠的話或許國科會這兩個A跟C案用生活圈道路一定不夠啦\n610154\t632859\t我們來申請看如果不行的話就是國科會他們針對這個南科產業第四期計劃他也有一些預算可以來協助我希望行政院跟陳士凱部長這邊ABC三個案請你們列管其中A跟C案如果可以統一競訴統一因為其中86號下面的車變道我已經追了快八九年了\n634502\t660507\t那好不容易這案子慢慢現在成熟了而且現在不做 將來一定後悔因為越來越貴而且它旁邊的需求量越來越大而你做了之後對於從奇美博物館 台南機場 喜樹喜樹灣這邊 其實那邊是紅色海灘整個在戰略上的需求 經濟上的需求以及新的成大醫院沙崙園區它整個會串聯 AI園區都會串聯在一起你慢慢走下去\n661762\t679304\t願慢做他的永篩會越久所以院長你的態度報告委員就依現在剛剛部長答覆的A案C案這兩案子我會請國發會國歌會一起來討論這個事情我們中共共建設跟這個南科的整個發展區域性的發展我們共同來討論這個事情儘快把它做一個\n680526\t710266\t有進度的時間讓他出來讓民眾知道我們下一步是什麼下一步是什麼什麼時候可以開始動主具體讓納稅人了解進度是很重要的好重大尤其重大建設對民眾來講他可能不曉得可行性分析他也不了解規劃他不曉得這些行政過程那我們政府有一個責任就是重大建設要讓民眾用最簡單的方式了解現在進度到哪裡這個我可以拜託行政院\n710986\t731414\t好另外呢另外這個交通建設案以外呢我可能先請兩位部長下去了我們請法務部上來好不好基隆之前的民政處處長張淵祥他私底下他的權責他是管護證的\n733448\t740316\t結果他為了去罷免民進黨籍的市議員私底下把戶政事務所的資料庫打開\n742066\t767158\t讓他們方便連署本案已經起訴也判刑一年十個月了部長知道這個案嗎我今天不是要你談個案我覺得作為一個立法委員老是在國會殿堂質詢個案這個是非常不妥適的但我現在講說那個案子已經審判了就是謝國良的民政處長偷偷拿民政處的戶政資料提供出去讓人家弄連署\n768979\t785845\t這個罷免民進黨籍的基隆市議員後來現在被判刑一年十個月所以這違法很明確那我現在請教如果用駭客的方式駭進戶政機關把戶政機關裡面的個資把它拿出來這個有沒有違法\n787460\t814949\t這個駭客這個有妨害使用電腦罪這個是有刑法358、359條的這個樣態有沒有比那個張淵祥的案子更嚴重這個當然是很不應該啦這個是很嚴重的行為那這個是五年以下有期徒刑的罪那另外呢利用駭客的技術把準官方機構類似央廣啦或者中央社啊這種我把你換成五星旗\n816375\t845376\t這個行為抓到的話這個涉犯什麼法律這個有那個有這個有甚至有個資法的一個問題那還有那個這個要違反有違反相關刑法相關刑法這個像這個案件是北檢有在偵辦中的去偷個資是一個法律用駭客手段也是一個法律嘛他等於是有兩個違法所以我現在請教我們目前國家像我們訴發部我們治安署我們\n846196\t871743\t我們治安辦啊 甚至於國安局啊我們部隊都有類似這樣的這個知通安的相關的建制如果有人 比方說有人找了駭客駭進去戶政事務所駭進去官方網站 把他置換的時候我們有沒有能力回頭溯源知道IP在哪裡 範銜在哪裡這是一個偵辦的技巧嘛 有沒有能力部長\n873344\t888195\t如果發生這樣的狀況的話,我們會儘速的派人去...以你了解,因為我現在講說,這樣子的樣態,我們有沒有能力回溯出范嫻的所在跟身份?\n889196\t914556\t是這個要看那個犯案人員他用什麼樣的方法沒有在境外有沒有能力境外的話我們可能要檢查他的那個log他的那個記錄那看是不是能找到他的那個他用跳接的VPN的方式境內境外跳來跳去以你們現在能力有沒有辦法掌握這個要看那個駭客他的技巧到什麼樣的程度這個案子不能小覷喔如果今天我找了\n915336\t942726\t其實政治人物不應該找駭客去駭民間的資料庫或公家的資料庫是這是嚴重侵權這在美國FBI是重罪如果在美國FBI是重罪他們抓到好幾個中國有五個去駭進他們的資料庫全球通緝所以這個是重罪所以你們的能力如果有辦法溯源找到我覺得應該盡速偵辦嚇阻這樣的行為好不好\n949386\t950330\t好谢谢谢谢\n","txt":"謝謝副院長麻煩我們卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢\n我今天先就教幾個我們在地方上非常關注的重大建設它的進度那我們都知道政府的施政當然是需要時間不管從規劃可行性分析一直走到環評環評過了之後還有相關預算框列等等\n但是總是建設是逐步逐步暗部就幫往前走但在地方期待的時候有時候進度的掌握會讓人民曉得這個政府在做什麼所以我先就叫幾個大的案子第一個台86線也就是從喜樹一路往關廟那現在計畫要打通到淚門\n這對高雄的北邊 岐山內門一直到我們台南的南側它的交通動脈是非常重要的一個建設那我也長期在爭取跟追蹤當中所以我先請教第一個我們現在不管年節甚至於平常上下班\n在台86跟這一個國道3號光廟交流道呢都回堵到二高上面也回堵到歸人的交流道它已經是經常性的現象每一次上下班住在那邊的人\n能烙到就烙到那從前幾任的行政院長開始進行那一直到現在我們第一段有關86號跨越台19甲也就是往光廟新化的這一段目前的進度已經環評完成環境部也報了那現在交通部公路總局提報建設計畫在9月8號送進行政院審議這個審議核定了\n接下來就是發包施工我們在地方也跟公路總局當地有一個一貫道的總堂我們都希望那個橋嫁接的時候在民間信仰上尊重他們都協調完了我把社會成本可能導致的阻礙都已經溝通完了所以我第一個問題很簡單現在行政院審議9月8號到現在什麼時候可以審議完成\n目前我們已經送到行政院在審議當中目前審議的過程當中如果還有其他各部會的意見我們也會一起來做說明說明完之後行政院應該會蠻快速來審議通過\n因為9月8號送上來審議了現在已經是10月13、14了所以應該是我們的業務單位業務處正在審理當中那最後還會經過綜合性的這個討論再回到這個最終的大概何時可以 今年可以審議完成嗎\n我會促成讓他今年一定完成今年要過了嘛我們希望今年把審議完成環境部的部分已經OK了啦現在已經是最後審議階段那另外一側另外一側就是走原來貢獻因為我們怕傷害原來的環境那邊有二地形越世界的地形等等所以從182線原來的四道原來線道現在是四道延伸到五經兩準打民粹道過這一個內門這一段\n現在是交通部公路總局提報環評報告給環境部審查嘛那這一塊現在進度下一個階段什麼時候可以進行保委員現在這個是在程序當中我不能因為這個環評是獨立審查但是我們現在呢其實環評我們希望說專業的審查讓專家因為這一段有經過敏感地形對\n這一段有經過這個紐譜啦這些破碎帶等等我是支持環評嚴審但是進度要讓人家掌握到我們常常看到一件事情上去兩三個月都沒消息也許你們做了很多民眾不知道所以後面在\n東側這一段靠近高雄岐山田寮這一段現在在環評當中嘛你們有沒有預計這個環評抓多久的工作時間報告委員我們現在環評大概一般的平均來說的話大概是說半年以內會可以告一個段落但是就要看它複雜的程度啦所以我們還是尊重這個環評委員的專業\n這一塊其實已經經過歐新等等環民做很多次了因為做很多次反而大家都了解會比較快呢還是因為做很多次所以比較複雜會跑比較慢 你的判斷現在其實我們的委員都很專業但是我委員 報告委員因為有些人會說我們這個開快車基本上這個都是按照一個程序在走我們不會給他特別的關注\n或是給他們任何的壓力都是他們獨立在做所以後段現在環評當中平均時間是半年但是我們尊重環評委員會獨立審查我們平均左右前段也就是塞車最嚴重的官票交流到這一塊環評OK了大概意見都一致了現在就等行政院核定那行政院在年底前我們希望能夠核定接下來就是準備發包施工相關的工作\n好 那另外呢昨天我謝謝鄭麗君副院長來到台南我們在沙崙國中有進行一個跟地方面對面的溝通其中台南市政府也是我們地方的需求提了ABCD四個案子這四個案子呢第一個案呢是把台86線這個台86線現在是一個交通大動脈\n早晚嚴重塞車的地方所以有時候我們要趕高鐵要走這條線要去關廟走這條線往另外一側呢到台南機場要走這條線到西濱快遙走這條線我告訴你真的趕路的人我不敢上去我都走區域道路因為他一直都塞住的所以我曾經在從林泉院長到賴清德院長到蘇貞昌院長到陳建仁院長我每次都質詢說\n86號已經固定了可是下面的側邊道下面有一個單側的一側往東一側往西應該善用下面這個側邊道把它拓寬讓地區的人可以透過這個解決塞車之苦那台南市政府也提一個案子53億要把\n台灣東西向台86號東西向的下面的側邊道各拓寬為8米雙線道一側由喜樹灣里往觀廟一側是由觀廟往西向喜樹灣里這可以有效減緩疏解台86東西塊上面的塞車現象我想這個部分從陳士凱擔任部長以來我們這個案子\n關心很久那現在呢台南市政府已經提一個53億的案子我待會詢問你進度第二個案子是有關高鐵特定區這邊是我們的綠能AI非常重要的一個區域那台86號呢是在這個區域的北側永瑟事實上在南側呢如果台南市政府提出一個把國道3田寮休息站官廟休息站跟國道1的\n仁德休息站那邊有一個長榮路如果把這兩條連結起來的話我等於用最便宜的預算在南側開闢了一個你類似的快速道路而且他會加會台南沙崙智慧綠能科學城以及高雄從陸竹以北這個區塊\n又不用用快速道路這麼高額的預算當然他現在快331億我認為是核實之後未必要那麼高這是第二個第三個是南157道這個圖片上有他是一個在我們現在高鐵的歸人交流道嚴重塞車在後端迎接的AI沙輪以及成大沙輪園區一個新的交流道一個大道\n那第一這個案子呢是屬於園區內的鋪面我就不再引述了這四個案子其中ABC案呢准許謝謝鎮議院副院長來我們當面溝通這三個案子我不曉得部長或院長有沒有掌握到目前可以核准的或要進行研擬的是哪些案子\n好 報告委員針對A案的部分我們會建議透過生活圈道路的申請我們也會來協助台南市政府因為他們已經提出案子了嘛那之前是沒有案子那現在已經提出案子我們就來協助他用生活圈道路的方式目前A B C我focus在這三案A案86下面側邊道的拓寬B案其實B案是一個非常有創意又可以減低工程衝擊把 你看關廟休息站\n跟仁德休息站用現在長榮大學外面那條長榮路把它拓寬把它整個串接起來這條路開闢起來的話會非常有效果因為我們現在台南人都知道我們仁德交流道以南天天都是那個是時時刻刻都在塞車他得把兩個休息站當交流道用\n把兩個休息站當交流道用然後把它關這一個我請交通部好好研擬這個案子可能要好好去思考但A案跟C案你能不能允諾來支持這兩個案子這兩個案子講很久了我們會來協助市政府透過生活圈道路的申請模式來申請那另外一方面就是說如果假使經費不夠的話或許國科會這兩個A跟C案用生活圈道路一定不夠啦\n我們來申請看如果不行的話就是國科會他們針對這個南科產業第四期計劃他也有一些預算可以來協助我希望行政院跟陳士凱部長這邊ABC三個案請你們列管其中A跟C案如果可以統一競訴統一因為其中86號下面的車變道我已經追了快八九年了\n那好不容易這案子慢慢現在成熟了而且現在不做 將來一定後悔因為越來越貴而且它旁邊的需求量越來越大而你做了之後對於從奇美博物館 台南機場 喜樹喜樹灣這邊 其實那邊是紅色海灘整個在戰略上的需求 經濟上的需求以及新的成大醫院沙崙園區它整個會串聯 AI園區都會串聯在一起你慢慢走下去\n願慢做他的永篩會越久所以院長你的態度報告委員就依現在剛剛部長答覆的A案C案這兩案子我會請國發會國歌會一起來討論這個事情我們中共共建設跟這個南科的整個發展區域性的發展我們共同來討論這個事情儘快把它做一個\n有進度的時間讓他出來讓民眾知道我們下一步是什麼下一步是什麼什麼時候可以開始動主具體讓納稅人了解進度是很重要的好重大尤其重大建設對民眾來講他可能不曉得可行性分析他也不了解規劃他不曉得這些行政過程那我們政府有一個責任就是重大建設要讓民眾用最簡單的方式了解現在進度到哪裡這個我可以拜託行政院\n好另外呢另外這個交通建設案以外呢我可能先請兩位部長下去了我們請法務部上來好不好基隆之前的民政處處長張淵祥他私底下他的權責他是管護證的\n結果他為了去罷免民進黨籍的市議員私底下把戶政事務所的資料庫打開\n讓他們方便連署本案已經起訴也判刑一年十個月了部長知道這個案嗎我今天不是要你談個案我覺得作為一個立法委員老是在國會殿堂質詢個案這個是非常不妥適的但我現在講說那個案子已經審判了就是謝國良的民政處長偷偷拿民政處的戶政資料提供出去讓人家弄連署\n這個罷免民進黨籍的基隆市議員後來現在被判刑一年十個月所以這違法很明確那我現在請教如果用駭客的方式駭進戶政機關把戶政機關裡面的個資把它拿出來這個有沒有違法\n這個駭客這個有妨害使用電腦罪這個是有刑法358、359條的這個樣態有沒有比那個張淵祥的案子更嚴重這個當然是很不應該啦這個是很嚴重的行為那這個是五年以下有期徒刑的罪那另外呢利用駭客的技術把準官方機構類似央廣啦或者中央社啊這種我把你換成五星旗\n這個行為抓到的話這個涉犯什麼法律這個有那個有這個有甚至有個資法的一個問題那還有那個這個要違反有違反相關刑法相關刑法這個像這個案件是北檢有在偵辦中的去偷個資是一個法律用駭客手段也是一個法律嘛他等於是有兩個違法所以我現在請教我們目前國家像我們訴發部我們治安署我們\n我們治安辦啊 甚至於國安局啊我們部隊都有類似這樣的這個知通安的相關的建制如果有人 比方說有人找了駭客駭進去戶政事務所駭進去官方網站 把他置換的時候我們有沒有能力回頭溯源知道IP在哪裡 範銜在哪裡這是一個偵辦的技巧嘛 有沒有能力部長\n如果發生這樣的狀況的話,我們會儘速的派人去...以你了解,因為我現在講說,這樣子的樣態,我們有沒有能力回溯出范嫻的所在跟身份?\n是這個要看那個犯案人員他用什麼樣的方法沒有在境外有沒有能力境外的話我們可能要檢查他的那個log他的那個記錄那看是不是能找到他的那個他用跳接的VPN的方式境內境外跳來跳去以你們現在能力有沒有辦法掌握這個要看那個駭客他的技巧到什麼樣的程度這個案子不能小覷喔如果今天我找了\n其實政治人物不應該找駭客去駭民間的資料庫或公家的資料庫是這是嚴重侵權這在美國FBI是重罪如果在美國FBI是重罪他們抓到好幾個中國有五個去駭進他們的資料庫全球通緝所以這個是重罪所以你們的能力如果有辦法溯源找到我覺得應該盡速偵辦嚇阻這樣的行為好不好\n好谢谢谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:23.757 --> 00:28.018\n謝謝副院長麻煩我們卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n00:41.251 --> 00:58.946\n我今天先就教幾個我們在地方上非常關注的重大建設它的進度那我們都知道政府的施政當然是需要時間不管從規劃可行性分析一直走到環評環評過了之後還有相關預算框列等等\n\n00:59.727 --> 01:19.390\n但是總是建設是逐步逐步暗部就幫往前走但在地方期待的時候有時候進度的掌握會讓人民曉得這個政府在做什麼所以我先就叫幾個大的案子第一個台86線也就是從喜樹一路往關廟那現在計畫要打通到淚門\n\n01:21.272 --> 01:37.729\n這對高雄的北邊岐山內門一直到我們台南的南側它的交通動脈是非常重要的一個建設那我也長期在爭取跟追蹤當中所以我先請教第一個我們現在不管年節甚至於平常上下班\n\n01:38.490 --> 01:52.175\n在台86跟這一個國道3號光廟交流道呢都回堵到二高上面也回堵到歸人的交流道它已經是經常性的現象每一次上下班住在那邊的人\n\n01:53.151 --> 02:19.286\n能烙到就烙到那從前幾任的行政院長開始進行那一直到現在我們第一段有關86號跨越台19甲也就是往光廟新化的這一段目前的進度已經環評完成環境部也報了那現在交通部公路總局提報建設計畫在9月8號送進行政院審議這個審議核定了\n\n02:21.067 --> 02:43.133\n接下來就是發包施工我們在地方也跟公路總局當地有一個一貫道的總堂我們都希望那個橋嫁接的時候在民間信仰上尊重他們都協調完了我把社會成本可能導致的阻礙都已經溝通完了所以我第一個問題很簡單現在行政院審議9月8號到現在什麼時候可以審議完成\n\n02:47.997 --> 02:59.788\n目前我們已經送到行政院在審議當中目前審議的過程當中如果還有其他各部會的意見我們也會一起來做說明說明完之後行政院應該會蠻快速來審議通過\n\n03:01.249 --> 03:17.865\n因為9月8號送上來審議了現在已經是10月13、14了所以應該是我們的業務單位業務處正在審理當中那最後還會經過綜合性的這個討論再回到這個最終的大概何時可以今年可以審議完成嗎\n\n03:19.286 --> 03:45.525\n我會促成讓他今年一定完成今年要過了嘛我們希望今年把審議完成環境部的部分已經OK了啦現在已經是最後審議階段那另外一側另外一側就是走原來貢獻因為我們怕傷害原來的環境那邊有二地形越世界的地形等等所以從182線原來的四道原來線道現在是四道延伸到五經兩準打民粹道過這一個內門這一段\n\n03:48.267 --> 04:08.468\n現在是交通部公路總局提報環評報告給環境部審查嘛那這一塊現在進度下一個階段什麼時候可以進行保委員現在這個是在程序當中我不能因為這個環評是獨立審查但是我們現在呢其實環評我們希望說專業的審查讓專家因為這一段有經過敏感地形對\n\n04:09.649 --> 04:26.264\n這一段有經過這個紐譜啦這些破碎帶等等我是支持環評嚴審但是進度要讓人家掌握到我們常常看到一件事情上去兩三個月都沒消息也許你們做了很多民眾不知道所以後面在\n\n04:29.207 --> 04:47.900\n東側這一段靠近高雄岐山田寮這一段現在在環評當中嘛你們有沒有預計這個環評抓多久的工作時間報告委員我們現在環評大概一般的平均來說的話大概是說半年以內會可以告一個段落但是就要看它複雜的程度啦所以我們還是尊重這個環評委員的專業\n\n04:49.481 --> 05:12.536\n這一塊其實已經經過歐新等等環民做很多次了因為做很多次反而大家都了解會比較快呢還是因為做很多次所以比較複雜會跑比較慢你的判斷現在其實我們的委員都很專業但是我委員報告委員因為有些人會說我們這個開快車基本上這個都是按照一個程序在走我們不會給他特別的關注\n\n05:12.956 --> 05:35.928\n或是給他們任何的壓力都是他們獨立在做所以後段現在環評當中平均時間是半年但是我們尊重環評委員會獨立審查我們平均左右前段也就是塞車最嚴重的官票交流到這一塊環評OK了大概意見都一致了現在就等行政院核定那行政院在年底前我們希望能夠核定接下來就是準備發包施工相關的工作\n\n05:36.468 --> 05:54.619\n好那另外呢昨天我謝謝鄭麗君副院長來到台南我們在沙崙國中有進行一個跟地方面對面的溝通其中台南市政府也是我們地方的需求提了ABCD四個案子這四個案子呢第一個案呢是把台86線這個台86線現在是一個交通大動脈\n\n06:00.902 --> 06:28.072\n早晚嚴重塞車的地方所以有時候我們要趕高鐵要走這條線要去關廟走這條線往另外一側呢到台南機場要走這條線到西濱快遙走這條線我告訴你真的趕路的人我不敢上去我都走區域道路因為他一直都塞住的所以我曾經在從林泉院長到賴清德院長到蘇貞昌院長到陳建仁院長我每次都質詢說\n\n06:29.892 --> 06:50.540\n86號已經固定了可是下面的側邊道下面有一個單側的一側往東一側往西應該善用下面這個側邊道把它拓寬讓地區的人可以透過這個解決塞車之苦那台南市政府也提一個案子53億要把\n\n06:51.640 --> 07:16.832\n台灣東西向台86號東西向的下面的側邊道各拓寬為8米雙線道一側由喜樹灣里往觀廟一側是由觀廟往西向喜樹灣里這可以有效減緩疏解台86東西塊上面的塞車現象我想這個部分從陳士凱擔任部長以來我們這個案子\n\n07:17.632 --> 07:45.017\n關心很久那現在呢台南市政府已經提一個53億的案子我待會詢問你進度第二個案子是有關高鐵特定區這邊是我們的綠能AI非常重要的一個區域那台86號呢是在這個區域的北側永瑟事實上在南側呢如果台南市政府提出一個把國道3田寮休息站官廟休息站跟國道1的\n\n07:45.777 --> 08:06.657\n仁德休息站那邊有一個長榮路如果把這兩條連結起來的話我等於用最便宜的預算在南側開闢了一個你類似的快速道路而且他會加會台南沙崙智慧綠能科學城以及高雄從陸竹以北這個區塊\n\n08:08.214 --> 08:34.857\n又不用用快速道路這麼高額的預算當然他現在快331億我認為是核實之後未必要那麼高這是第二個第三個是南157道這個圖片上有他是一個在我們現在高鐵的歸人交流道嚴重塞車在後端迎接的AI沙輪以及成大沙輪園區一個新的交流道一個大道\n\n08:35.357 --> 08:54.065\n那第一這個案子呢是屬於園區內的鋪面我就不再引述了這四個案子其中ABC案呢准許謝謝鎮議院副院長來我們當面溝通這三個案子我不曉得部長或院長有沒有掌握到目前可以核准的或要進行研擬的是哪些案子\n\n08:55.189 --> 09:24.011\n好報告委員針對A案的部分我們會建議透過生活圈道路的申請我們也會來協助台南市政府因為他們已經提出案子了嘛那之前是沒有案子那現在已經提出案子我們就來協助他用生活圈道路的方式目前ABC我focus在這三案A案86下面側邊道的拓寬B案其實B案是一個非常有創意又可以減低工程衝擊把你看關廟休息站\n\n09:24.807 --> 09:44.560\n跟仁德休息站用現在長榮大學外面那條長榮路把它拓寬把它整個串接起來這條路開闢起來的話會非常有效果因為我們現在台南人都知道我們仁德交流道以南天天都是那個是時時刻刻都在塞車他得把兩個休息站當交流道用\n\n09:45.501 --> 10:09.217\n把兩個休息站當交流道用然後把它關這一個我請交通部好好研擬這個案子可能要好好去思考但A案跟C案你能不能允諾來支持這兩個案子這兩個案子講很久了我們會來協助市政府透過生活圈道路的申請模式來申請那另外一方面就是說如果假使經費不夠的話或許國科會這兩個A跟C案用生活圈道路一定不夠啦\n\n10:10.154 --> 10:32.859\n我們來申請看如果不行的話就是國科會他們針對這個南科產業第四期計劃他也有一些預算可以來協助我希望行政院跟陳士凱部長這邊ABC三個案請你們列管其中A跟C案如果可以統一競訴統一因為其中86號下面的車變道我已經追了快八九年了\n\n10:34.502 --> 11:00.507\n那好不容易這案子慢慢現在成熟了而且現在不做將來一定後悔因為越來越貴而且它旁邊的需求量越來越大而你做了之後對於從奇美博物館台南機場喜樹喜樹灣這邊其實那邊是紅色海灘整個在戰略上的需求經濟上的需求以及新的成大醫院沙崙園區它整個會串聯AI園區都會串聯在一起你慢慢走下去\n\n11:01.762 --> 11:19.304\n願慢做他的永篩會越久所以院長你的態度報告委員就依現在剛剛部長答覆的A案C案這兩案子我會請國發會國歌會一起來討論這個事情我們中共共建設跟這個南科的整個發展區域性的發展我們共同來討論這個事情儘快把它做一個\n\n11:20.526 --> 11:50.266\n有進度的時間讓他出來讓民眾知道我們下一步是什麼下一步是什麼什麼時候可以開始動主具體讓納稅人了解進度是很重要的好重大尤其重大建設對民眾來講他可能不曉得可行性分析他也不了解規劃他不曉得這些行政過程那我們政府有一個責任就是重大建設要讓民眾用最簡單的方式了解現在進度到哪裡這個我可以拜託行政院\n\n11:50.986 --> 12:11.414\n好另外呢另外這個交通建設案以外呢我可能先請兩位部長下去了我們請法務部上來好不好基隆之前的民政處處長張淵祥他私底下他的權責他是管護證的\n\n12:13.448 --> 12:20.316\n結果他為了去罷免民進黨籍的市議員私底下把戶政事務所的資料庫打開\n\n12:22.066 --> 12:47.158\n讓他們方便連署本案已經起訴也判刑一年十個月了部長知道這個案嗎我今天不是要你談個案我覺得作為一個立法委員老是在國會殿堂質詢個案這個是非常不妥適的但我現在講說那個案子已經審判了就是謝國良的民政處長偷偷拿民政處的戶政資料提供出去讓人家弄連署\n\n12:48.979 --> 13:05.845\n這個罷免民進黨籍的基隆市議員後來現在被判刑一年十個月所以這違法很明確那我現在請教如果用駭客的方式駭進戶政機關把戶政機關裡面的個資把它拿出來這個有沒有違法\n\n13:07.460 --> 13:34.949\n這個駭客這個有妨害使用電腦罪這個是有刑法358、359條的這個樣態有沒有比那個張淵祥的案子更嚴重這個當然是很不應該啦這個是很嚴重的行為那這個是五年以下有期徒刑的罪那另外呢利用駭客的技術把準官方機構類似央廣啦或者中央社啊這種我把你換成五星旗\n\n13:36.375 --> 14:05.376\n這個行為抓到的話這個涉犯什麼法律這個有那個有這個有甚至有個資法的一個問題那還有那個這個要違反有違反相關刑法相關刑法這個像這個案件是北檢有在偵辦中的去偷個資是一個法律用駭客手段也是一個法律嘛他等於是有兩個違法所以我現在請教我們目前國家像我們訴發部我們治安署我們\n\n14:06.196 --> 14:31.743\n我們治安辦啊甚至於國安局啊我們部隊都有類似這樣的這個知通安的相關的建制如果有人比方說有人找了駭客駭進去戶政事務所駭進去官方網站把他置換的時候我們有沒有能力回頭溯源知道IP在哪裡範銜在哪裡這是一個偵辦的技巧嘛有沒有能力部長\n\n14:33.344 --> 14:48.195\n如果發生這樣的狀況的話,我們會儘速的派人去...以你了解,因為我現在講說,這樣子的樣態,我們有沒有能力回溯出范嫻的所在跟身份?\n\n14:49.196 --> 15:14.556\n是這個要看那個犯案人員他用什麼樣的方法沒有在境外有沒有能力境外的話我們可能要檢查他的那個log他的那個記錄那看是不是能找到他的那個他用跳接的VPN的方式境內境外跳來跳去以你們現在能力有沒有辦法掌握這個要看那個駭客他的技巧到什麼樣的程度這個案子不能小覷喔如果今天我找了\n\n15:15.336 --> 15:42.726\n其實政治人物不應該找駭客去駭民間的資料庫或公家的資料庫是這是嚴重侵權這在美國FBI是重罪如果在美國FBI是重罪他們抓到好幾個中國有五個去駭進他們的資料庫全球通緝所以這個是重罪所以你們的能力如果有辦法溯源找到我覺得應該盡速偵辦嚇阻這樣的行為好不好\n\n15:49.386 --> 15:50.330\n好谢谢谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":23.757,"end":28.018,"text":"謝謝副院長麻煩我們卓榮泰卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":41.251,"end":58.946,"text":"我今天先就教幾個我們在地方上非常關注的重大建設它的進度那我們都知道政府的施政當然是需要時間不管從規劃可行性分析一直走到環評環評過了之後還有相關預算框列等等"},{"start":59.727,"end":79.39,"text":"但是總是建設是逐步逐步暗部就幫往前走但在地方期待的時候有時候進度的掌握會讓人民曉得這個政府在做什麼所以我先就叫幾個大的案子第一個台86線也就是從喜樹一路往關廟那現在計畫要打通到淚門"},{"start":81.272,"end":97.729,"text":"這對高雄的北邊 岐山內門一直到我們台南的南側它的交通動脈是非常重要的一個建設那我也長期在爭取跟追蹤當中所以我先請教第一個我們現在不管年節甚至於平常上下班"},{"start":98.49,"end":112.175,"text":"在台86跟這一個國道3號光廟交流道呢都回堵到二高上面也回堵到歸人的交流道它已經是經常性的現象每一次上下班住在那邊的人"},{"start":113.151,"end":139.286,"text":"能烙到就烙到那從前幾任的行政院長開始進行那一直到現在我們第一段有關86號跨越台19甲也就是往光廟新化的這一段目前的進度已經環評完成環境部也報了那現在交通部公路總局提報建設計畫在9月8號送進行政院審議這個審議核定了"},{"start":141.067,"end":163.133,"text":"接下來就是發包施工我們在地方也跟公路總局當地有一個一貫道的總堂我們都希望那個橋嫁接的時候在民間信仰上尊重他們都協調完了我把社會成本可能導致的阻礙都已經溝通完了所以我第一個問題很簡單現在行政院審議9月8號到現在什麼時候可以審議完成"},{"start":167.997,"end":179.788,"text":"目前我們已經送到行政院在審議當中目前審議的過程當中如果還有其他各部會的意見我們也會一起來做說明說明完之後行政院應該會蠻快速來審議通過"},{"start":181.249,"end":197.865,"text":"因為9月8號送上來審議了現在已經是10月13、14了所以應該是我們的業務單位業務處正在審理當中那最後還會經過綜合性的這個討論再回到這個最終的大概何時可以 今年可以審議完成嗎"},{"start":199.286,"end":225.525,"text":"我會促成讓他今年一定完成今年要過了嘛我們希望今年把審議完成環境部的部分已經OK了啦現在已經是最後審議階段那另外一側另外一側就是走原來貢獻因為我們怕傷害原來的環境那邊有二地形越世界的地形等等所以從182線原來的四道原來線道現在是四道延伸到五經兩準打民粹道過這一個內門這一段"},{"start":228.267,"end":248.468,"text":"現在是交通部公路總局提報環評報告給環境部審查嘛那這一塊現在進度下一個階段什麼時候可以進行保委員現在這個是在程序當中我不能因為這個環評是獨立審查但是我們現在呢其實環評我們希望說專業的審查讓專家因為這一段有經過敏感地形對"},{"start":249.649,"end":266.264,"text":"這一段有經過這個紐譜啦這些破碎帶等等我是支持環評嚴審但是進度要讓人家掌握到我們常常看到一件事情上去兩三個月都沒消息也許你們做了很多民眾不知道所以後面在"},{"start":269.207,"end":287.9,"text":"東側這一段靠近高雄岐山田寮這一段現在在環評當中嘛你們有沒有預計這個環評抓多久的工作時間報告委員我們現在環評大概一般的平均來說的話大概是說半年以內會可以告一個段落但是就要看它複雜的程度啦所以我們還是尊重這個環評委員的專業"},{"start":289.481,"end":312.536,"text":"這一塊其實已經經過歐新等等環民做很多次了因為做很多次反而大家都了解會比較快呢還是因為做很多次所以比較複雜會跑比較慢 你的判斷現在其實我們的委員都很專業但是我委員 報告委員因為有些人會說我們這個開快車基本上這個都是按照一個程序在走我們不會給他特別的關注"},{"start":312.956,"end":335.928,"text":"或是給他們任何的壓力都是他們獨立在做所以後段現在環評當中平均時間是半年但是我們尊重環評委員會獨立審查我們平均左右前段也就是塞車最嚴重的官票交流到這一塊環評OK了大概意見都一致了現在就等行政院核定那行政院在年底前我們希望能夠核定接下來就是準備發包施工相關的工作"},{"start":336.468,"end":354.619,"text":"好 那另外呢昨天我謝謝鄭麗君副院長來到台南我們在沙崙國中有進行一個跟地方面對面的溝通其中台南市政府也是我們地方的需求提了ABCD四個案子這四個案子呢第一個案呢是把台86線這個台86線現在是一個交通大動脈"},{"start":360.902,"end":388.072,"text":"早晚嚴重塞車的地方所以有時候我們要趕高鐵要走這條線要去關廟走這條線往另外一側呢到台南機場要走這條線到西濱快遙走這條線我告訴你真的趕路的人我不敢上去我都走區域道路因為他一直都塞住的所以我曾經在從林泉院長到賴清德院長到蘇貞昌院長到陳建仁院長我每次都質詢說"},{"start":389.892,"end":410.54,"text":"86號已經固定了可是下面的側邊道下面有一個單側的一側往東一側往西應該善用下面這個側邊道把它拓寬讓地區的人可以透過這個解決塞車之苦那台南市政府也提一個案子53億要把"},{"start":411.64,"end":436.832,"text":"台灣東西向台86號東西向的下面的側邊道各拓寬為8米雙線道一側由喜樹灣里往觀廟一側是由觀廟往西向喜樹灣里這可以有效減緩疏解台86東西塊上面的塞車現象我想這個部分從陳士凱擔任部長以來我們這個案子"},{"start":437.632,"end":465.017,"text":"關心很久那現在呢台南市政府已經提一個53億的案子我待會詢問你進度第二個案子是有關高鐵特定區這邊是我們的綠能AI非常重要的一個區域那台86號呢是在這個區域的北側永瑟事實上在南側呢如果台南市政府提出一個把國道3田寮休息站官廟休息站跟國道1的"},{"start":465.777,"end":486.657,"text":"仁德休息站那邊有一個長榮路如果把這兩條連結起來的話我等於用最便宜的預算在南側開闢了一個你類似的快速道路而且他會加會台南沙崙智慧綠能科學城以及高雄從陸竹以北這個區塊"},{"start":488.214,"end":514.857,"text":"又不用用快速道路這麼高額的預算當然他現在快331億我認為是核實之後未必要那麼高這是第二個第三個是南157道這個圖片上有他是一個在我們現在高鐵的歸人交流道嚴重塞車在後端迎接的AI沙輪以及成大沙輪園區一個新的交流道一個大道"},{"start":515.357,"end":534.065,"text":"那第一這個案子呢是屬於園區內的鋪面我就不再引述了這四個案子其中ABC案呢准許謝謝鎮議院副院長來我們當面溝通這三個案子我不曉得部長或院長有沒有掌握到目前可以核准的或要進行研擬的是哪些案子"},{"start":535.189,"end":564.011,"text":"好 報告委員針對A案的部分我們會建議透過生活圈道路的申請我們也會來協助台南市政府因為他們已經提出案子了嘛那之前是沒有案子那現在已經提出案子我們就來協助他用生活圈道路的方式目前A B C我focus在這三案A案86下面側邊道的拓寬B案其實B案是一個非常有創意又可以減低工程衝擊把 你看關廟休息站"},{"start":564.807,"end":584.56,"text":"跟仁德休息站用現在長榮大學外面那條長榮路把它拓寬把它整個串接起來這條路開闢起來的話會非常有效果因為我們現在台南人都知道我們仁德交流道以南天天都是那個是時時刻刻都在塞車他得把兩個休息站當交流道用"},{"start":585.501,"end":609.217,"text":"把兩個休息站當交流道用然後把它關這一個我請交通部好好研擬這個案子可能要好好去思考但A案跟C案你能不能允諾來支持這兩個案子這兩個案子講很久了我們會來協助市政府透過生活圈道路的申請模式來申請那另外一方面就是說如果假使經費不夠的話或許國科會這兩個A跟C案用生活圈道路一定不夠啦"},{"start":610.154,"end":632.859,"text":"我們來申請看如果不行的話就是國科會他們針對這個南科產業第四期計劃他也有一些預算可以來協助我希望行政院跟陳士凱部長這邊ABC三個案請你們列管其中A跟C案如果可以統一競訴統一因為其中86號下面的車變道我已經追了快八九年了"},{"start":634.502,"end":660.507,"text":"那好不容易這案子慢慢現在成熟了而且現在不做 將來一定後悔因為越來越貴而且它旁邊的需求量越來越大而你做了之後對於從奇美博物館 台南機場 喜樹喜樹灣這邊 其實那邊是紅色海灘整個在戰略上的需求 經濟上的需求以及新的成大醫院沙崙園區它整個會串聯 AI園區都會串聯在一起你慢慢走下去"},{"start":661.762,"end":679.304,"text":"願慢做他的永篩會越久所以院長你的態度報告委員就依現在剛剛部長答覆的A案C案這兩案子我會請國發會國歌會一起來討論這個事情我們中共共建設跟這個南科的整個發展區域性的發展我們共同來討論這個事情儘快把它做一個"},{"start":680.526,"end":710.266,"text":"有進度的時間讓他出來讓民眾知道我們下一步是什麼下一步是什麼什麼時候可以開始動主具體讓納稅人了解進度是很重要的好重大尤其重大建設對民眾來講他可能不曉得可行性分析他也不了解規劃他不曉得這些行政過程那我們政府有一個責任就是重大建設要讓民眾用最簡單的方式了解現在進度到哪裡這個我可以拜託行政院"},{"start":710.986,"end":731.414,"text":"好另外呢另外這個交通建設案以外呢我可能先請兩位部長下去了我們請法務部上來好不好基隆之前的民政處處長張淵祥他私底下他的權責他是管護證的"},{"start":733.448,"end":740.316,"text":"結果他為了去罷免民進黨籍的市議員私底下把戶政事務所的資料庫打開"},{"start":742.066,"end":767.158,"text":"讓他們方便連署本案已經起訴也判刑一年十個月了部長知道這個案嗎我今天不是要你談個案我覺得作為一個立法委員老是在國會殿堂質詢個案這個是非常不妥適的但我現在講說那個案子已經審判了就是謝國良的民政處長偷偷拿民政處的戶政資料提供出去讓人家弄連署"},{"start":768.979,"end":785.845,"text":"這個罷免民進黨籍的基隆市議員後來現在被判刑一年十個月所以這違法很明確那我現在請教如果用駭客的方式駭進戶政機關把戶政機關裡面的個資把它拿出來這個有沒有違法"},{"start":787.46,"end":814.949,"text":"這個駭客這個有妨害使用電腦罪這個是有刑法358、359條的這個樣態有沒有比那個張淵祥的案子更嚴重這個當然是很不應該啦這個是很嚴重的行為那這個是五年以下有期徒刑的罪那另外呢利用駭客的技術把準官方機構類似央廣啦或者中央社啊這種我把你換成五星旗"},{"start":816.375,"end":845.376,"text":"這個行為抓到的話這個涉犯什麼法律這個有那個有這個有甚至有個資法的一個問題那還有那個這個要違反有違反相關刑法相關刑法這個像這個案件是北檢有在偵辦中的去偷個資是一個法律用駭客手段也是一個法律嘛他等於是有兩個違法所以我現在請教我們目前國家像我們訴發部我們治安署我們"},{"start":846.196,"end":871.743,"text":"我們治安辦啊 甚至於國安局啊我們部隊都有類似這樣的這個知通安的相關的建制如果有人 比方說有人找了駭客駭進去戶政事務所駭進去官方網站 把他置換的時候我們有沒有能力回頭溯源知道IP在哪裡 範銜在哪裡這是一個偵辦的技巧嘛 有沒有能力部長"},{"start":873.344,"end":888.195,"text":"如果發生這樣的狀況的話,我們會儘速的派人去...以你了解,因為我現在講說,這樣子的樣態,我們有沒有能力回溯出范嫻的所在跟身份?"},{"start":889.196,"end":914.556,"text":"是這個要看那個犯案人員他用什麼樣的方法沒有在境外有沒有能力境外的話我們可能要檢查他的那個log他的那個記錄那看是不是能找到他的那個他用跳接的VPN的方式境內境外跳來跳去以你們現在能力有沒有辦法掌握這個要看那個駭客他的技巧到什麼樣的程度這個案子不能小覷喔如果今天我找了"},{"start":915.336,"end":942.726,"text":"其實政治人物不應該找駭客去駭民間的資料庫或公家的資料庫是這是嚴重侵權這在美國FBI是重罪如果在美國FBI是重罪他們抓到好幾個中國有五個去駭進他們的資料庫全球通緝所以這個是重罪所以你們的能力如果有辦法溯源找到我覺得應該盡速偵辦嚇阻這樣的行為好不好"},{"start":949.386,"end":950.33,"text":"好谢谢谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":801,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（11時6分）謝謝副院長。麻煩卓榮泰卓院長、交通部。"],["主席：請卓院長、交通部備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員定宇：院長早，辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["王委員定宇：我今天先就教幾個在地方上非常受關注、重大建設的進度，我們都知道政府的施政當然是需要時間，不管從規劃、可行性分析、一直走到環評，環評過了之後還有相關預算匡列等等，建設總是逐步按部就班往前走，但是在地方期待的時候，有時候進度的掌握會讓人民曉得政府在做什麼，所以我先就教幾個大的案子。第一個，台86線，也就是從喜樹一路往關廟，現在計畫要打通到內門，這個對高雄的北邊旗山、內門，一直到臺南南側的交通動脈是非常重要的一個建設，我也長期在爭取跟追蹤當中。","所以我先請教第一個，現在不管年節，甚至平常上下班，在台86跟國道3號關廟交流道，都回堵到二高上面，也回堵到歸仁交流道，這已經是經常性的現象，每一次上下班，住在那邊的人能繞道就繞道，從前幾任的行政院長開始進行一直到現在，第一段有關台86號跨越台19甲，也就是往關廟、新化這一段，目前的進度已經環評完成，環境部也報了，現在交通部公路總局提報建設計畫，在9月8號送進行政院審議，這個審議核定了，接下來就是發包施工。我們在地方也跟公路總局當地有一個一貫道的總堂，我們都希望那個橋嫁接的時候，在民間信仰上尊重他們，都協調完了，我把社會成本可能導致的阻礙都已經溝通完了。所以我第一個問題很簡單，現在行政院審議，從9月8號到現在，什麼時候可以審議完成？"],["卓院長榮泰：請陳部長說明一下程序。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，目前我們已經送到行政院，在審議當中。"],["王委員定宇：對，我知道，有寫在上面。"],["陳部長世凱：目前審議的過程當中，如果還有一些其他各部會的意見，我們也會一起做說明，說明完之後行政院應該會滿快速來審議、動作。"],["王委員定宇：因為9月8號送上來審議，現在已經是10月14了，所以有沒有一個進度？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院應該是業務單位業務處正在審理當中，最後還會經過綜合性的討論，再回到最終的……"],["王委員定宇：大概何時可以？今年可以審議完成嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我會促成讓它今年一定完成。"],["王委員定宇：今年要過了嘛！我們希望今年把它審議完成。因為環境部的部分已經OK了，現在已經是最後審議階段。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒問題，好。"],["王委員定宇：那另外一側，就是走原來共線，因為我們怕傷害原來的環境，那邊有惡地形、月世界的地形等等，所以從182線原來的縣道現在是市道，延伸到五間、龍船，打明隧道過內門這一段，現在是交通部公路總局提環評報告給環境部審查，這一塊現在的進度？下一個階段什麼時候可以進行？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，現在這個是在程序當中，因為環評是獨立審查……"],["王委員定宇：當然、當然。"],["彭部長啓明：但是現在其實環評，我們希望專業的審查讓專家能夠去做……"],["王委員定宇：因為這一段有經過敏感地形。"],["彭部長啓明：對、對。"],["王委員定宇：這一段有經過牛埔，這些破碎帶等等，我是支持環評嚴審，但是進度要讓人家掌握。我們常常看到一件事情，送上去兩、三個月都沒消息，也許你們做了很多，但民眾不知道，所以後面在東側靠近高雄旗山、田寮這一段，現在在環評當中，你們有沒有預計環評抓多久的工作時間？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們現在環評一般平均來說大概半年以內可以告一個段落……"],["王委員定宇：但是已經……"],["彭部長啓明：但是要看它複雜的程度，所以我們還是尊重環評委員的專業。"],["王委員定宇：這一塊其實已經經過歐欣等等，環評做很多次了啦！"],["彭部長啓明：對、對。"],["王委員定宇：因為做很多次，反而大家都會比較了解，而比較快呢？還是因為做很多次，所以比較複雜，會跑比較慢，你判斷呢？"],["彭部長啓明：其實現在我們的委員都很專業，但是報告委員，因為有些人會說我們開快車，基本上這都是按照程序在走，我不會給他特別的關注，或是給他們任何壓力，都是他們獨立在作業。"],["王委員定宇：所以後段現在在環評當中，平均時間是半年，但是我們尊重環評委員會獨立審查。"],["彭部長啓明：對，沒錯，我們平均是半年左右。"],["王委員定宇：前段也就是塞車最嚴重的關廟交流道這一塊，環評也OK了，大概意見都一致了，現在就等行政院核定，那行政院在年底前我們希望能夠核定，接下來就是準備發包施工相關的工作。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["王委員定宇：另外，我謝謝昨天鄭麗君副院長來到臺南，我們在沙崙國中有進行一個地方面對面的溝通，其中臺南市政府也是我們地方的需求，提了A、B、C、D四個案子，這四個案子其中第一個案是台86線，台86線現在是一個交通大動脈，早晚嚴重塞車的地方，所以有時候我們趕高鐵要走這條線，去關廟要走這條線，往另外一側到臺南機場要走這條線，到西濱快也要走這條線，我告訴你，真的趕路的人都不敢上去，像我都走區域道路，因為它是一直塞住的，所以我曾經從林全院長、到賴清德院長、到蘇貞昌院長、到陳建仁院長，我每次都質詢說台86線已經固定了，可是下面有一個單側側邊道，一側往東、一側往西，應該善用下面這個側邊道把它拓寬，讓地區的人可以透過這個解決塞車之苦，臺南市政府也提了一個53億的案子，要把台86線東西向下面的側邊道各拓寬為8米雙線道，一側由喜樹灣裡往關廟，一側是由關廟往西向喜樹灣裡，這可以有效減緩、紓解台86線東西快上面的塞車現象。我想這個部分，從陳世凱擔任部長以來，我們這個案子關心很久，那現在臺南市政府已經提一個53億的案子，我待會詢問你進度。","第二案是有關高鐵特定區，這邊是我們綠能AI非常重要的一個區域，台86線是在這個區域的北側壅塞。事實上，在南側如果臺南市政府提出一個把國道3號田寮休息站、關廟休息站跟國道1號的仁德休息站，那邊有一個長榮路，如果把這兩條連結起來的話，我等於用最便宜的預算，在南側開闢類似快速道路，而且它會嘉惠臺南沙崙智慧綠能科學城，以及高雄路竹以北這個區塊，又不用快速道路這麼高額的預算，它現在寬估331億，我認為這核實之後經費未必要那麼高，這是第二個。","第三個是南157道，這個在圖片上有，它在我們現在嚴重塞車的高鐵歸仁交流道後端迎接AI沙崙以及成大沙崙園區的一個新交流道、一個大道。第一，這個案子是屬於園區內的鋪面，我就不再贅述了。","這四個案子，其中A、B、C案，昨天謝謝鄭麗君副院長來，我們也當面溝通。這三個案子，我不曉得部長或院長有沒有掌握到目前可以核准的，或要進行研擬的是哪些案子？"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，針對A案的部分，我們會建議透過生活圈道路的申請，我們也會來協助臺南市政府，因為他們已經提出案子了。之前是沒有案子，現在已經提出案子，我們就來協助他用生活圈道路的方式來執行。"],["王委員定宇：目前我focus在A、B、C這三案，A案是台86線下面側邊道的拓寬；其實B案是非常有創意，又可以減低工程衝擊的，你看關廟休息站跟仁德休息站用現在長榮大學外面那條長榮路把它拓寬並整個串接起來，倘若這條路開闢起來的話，會非常有效果，因為現在臺南人都知道，我們仁德交流道以南，天天都是……時時刻刻都在塞車，它把兩個休息站當交流道用，這個我請交通部好好研擬，這案可能要好好去思考，但A案跟C案，你能不能允諾來支持這兩個案子？這兩個案子講很久了。"],["陳部長世凱：我們會來協助市政府透過申請生活圈道路的模式來申請。另外，如果假使經費不夠的話，或許國科會也可以……"],["王委員定宇：這A跟C案用生活圈道路一定不夠啦！"],["陳部長世凱：我們來申請看看，如果不行的話，國科會他們針對南科產業第四期計畫也有一些預算可以來協助。"],["王委員定宇：我希望行政院跟陳世凱部長針對A、B、C這三案，請你們列管。其中A、C案，如果可以同意，儘速同意，因為其中台86號下面的側邊道，我已經追了快八、九年了，好不容易這案子慢慢現在成熟了，而且現在不做，將來一定後悔，因為會越來越貴，而且它旁邊的需求量越來越大，而做了之後，對於從奇美博物館、臺南機場、喜樹灣……其實喜樹灣那邊是紅色海灘，整個在戰略上的需求、經濟上的需求，以及新的成大醫院沙崙園區，整個AI園區都會串聯在一起，你們越慢做、會越貴，越慢做、它壅塞會越久，所以院長你的態度呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，就依剛剛部長答復的A案及C案這兩案子，我會請國發會、國科會一起來討論這個事情，從公共建設跟南科的整個區域性的發展，我們共同來討論這個事情，儘快把它做一個有進度的時程及結果出來。"],["王委員定宇：把時程規劃出來，讓民眾知道要做了，我們下一步是什麼、下一步又是什麼，什麼時候可以開始動土？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們把進度規劃出來。"],["王委員定宇：具體讓納稅人了解進度是很重要的，尤其重大建設，對民眾來講：我就是路要通！他可能不曉得可行性分析、不了解規劃，也不曉得這些行政過程。我們政府有一個責任，就是重大建設要讓民眾用最簡單的方式了解現在進度到哪裡，這我要拜託行政院。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，謝謝委員。"],["王委員定宇：另外，除交通建設案以外，先請兩位部長下去，請法務部上來，好不好？","之前基隆市政府的民政處處長張淵翔，他的權責是管戶政的，結果他為了要罷免民進黨籍的市議員，私底下把戶政事務所的資料庫打開，方便他們連署，本案已經起訴，也判刑一年十個月了。部長知道這個案嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我當然知道。"],["王委員定宇：我今天不是要你談個案，我覺得作為一個立法委員老是在國會殿堂質詢個案，這個是非常不妥適的。但我現在要講的那個案子已經審判了啦！就是謝國樑的民政處長偷偷把民政處的戶政資料提供出去讓人家弄連署，要罷免民進黨籍的基隆市議員，後來現在被判刑一年十個月嘛！所以這違法明確。我現在請教，如果用駭客的方式駭進戶政機關，把戶政機關裡的個資拿出來，這樣有沒有違法？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個駭客有妨害使用電腦罪，是有涉犯刑法第三百五十八條及第三百五十九條……"],["王委員定宇：這樣態有沒有比張淵翔的案子更嚴重？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這當然是很不應該啦！這是很嚴重的行為，這是處五年以下有期徒刑的罪。"],["王委員定宇：另外，利用駭客的技術把準官方機構類似央廣或者中央社這些機構，把他換成五星旗，這個行為抓到的話，是涉犯什麼法律？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這涉有個資法的問題，還有……"],["王委員定宇：這應該有違反相關刑法吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，有相關刑法。像這個案件，北檢有在偵辦中了。"],["王委員定宇：去偷個資是一個法律，用駭客手段也是一個法律嘛！他等於是有兩個行為違法，所以我現在請教，目前國家像數發部、資安署、資安辦，甚至國安局、軍隊都有類似這樣的資通安全的相關建置，比方說，有人找了駭客駭進戶政事務所、駭進官方網站把它置換的時候，我們有沒有能力回頭溯源，知道IP在哪裡、犯嫌在哪裡？這是一個偵辦的技巧，有沒有能力，部長？"],["林部長宜敬：是，如果發生這樣的狀況，第一個，我們會儘速派人去……"],["王委員定宇：以你的了解。我現在要說的是，對於這樣子的樣態，我們有沒有能力回溯出犯嫌的所在跟身分？"],["林部長宜敬：這要看辦案人員用什麼樣的方法……"],["王委員定宇：如果在境外的話，有沒有能力？"],["林部長宜敬：境外的話，我們可能要檢查他的log、他的紀錄，看是不是能找到他的IP……"],["王委員定宇：他用跳接的、VPN的方式，境內境外跳來跳去，以你們現在的能力有沒有辦法掌握？"],["林部長宜敬：這要看駭客的技巧到什麼樣的程度。"],["王委員定宇：這個案子不能小覷！如果今天我找了……其實政治人物不應該找駭客去駭民間的資料庫或公家的資料庫！"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["王委員定宇：這是嚴重侵權！這在美國FBI是重罪！"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["王委員定宇：如果在美國FBI是重罪，他們抓了好幾個。中國有五個駭進他們的資料庫，遭到全球通緝，所以這是重罪！如果你們的能力有辦法溯源找到，那麼我覺得應該儘速偵辦，嚇阻這樣的行為，好不好？好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：就我們的資通，在刑法上、在國家安全上我們都會考慮。"],["王委員定宇：這是危害國家安全的重罪！"],["主席：謝謝王委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請謝衣鳯委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":23,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1147901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147901_00001"}}}