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0.998}]}, {\"start\": 50.558, \"end\": 74.403, \"text\": \"你認為韓國瑜院長所提到台灣面臨的問題都不是事實嗎第一個我那天是跟韓院長說他的歌聲很好聽他講的事實他講的事實都不是事實他講的過程我認為我現在關心的不是隱形的晏賽湖是那個實際的晏賽湖還有我們還有在監視廂太崗廈的那所以說貴黨所發動的這一連串的攻擊你自己事先知不知情\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 50.558, \"end\": 51.198, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"韓\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"瑜\", \"start\": 51.198, \"end\": 51.338, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 51.338, \"end\": 51.718, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 51.718, \"end\": 51.938, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 51.938, \"end\": 52.118, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 52.118, \"end\": 52.338, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 52.338, \"end\": 52.658, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 52.658, \"end\": 52.979, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"臨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 52.979, \"end\": 53.859, \"score\": 0.934}, 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{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 68.542, \"end\": 69.442, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"廂\"}, {\"word\": \"太\", \"start\": 69.442, \"end\": 69.582, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"崗\"}, {\"word\": \"廈\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 69.582, \"end\": 70.062, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 70.062, \"end\": 70.402, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 70.402, \"end\": 70.882, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 70.882, \"end\": 71.242, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"貴\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 71.242, \"end\": 71.862, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 71.862, \"end\": 72.042, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 72.042, \"end\": 72.262, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"串\", \"start\": 72.262, \"end\": 72.442, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 72.442, 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\"我們其實從蔡政府開始就已經不斷地去蓋我們這個光電板然後呢說實在的我們一些的好山好水真的是有被破壞掉然後呢很多的亂象到目前為止都還是浮現了即使對於我們的生態的破壞真的是無庸置疑的啦然後呢颱風一來其實也是災難了我想這個部分大家都會看到\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 576.07, \"end\": 576.31, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 576.31, \"end\": 576.81, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 576.81, \"end\": 576.97, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 576.97, \"end\": 577.111, \"score\": 0.486}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 577.111, \"end\": 577.431, \"score\": 0.608}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 577.431, \"end\": 577.571, \"score\": 0.739}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 577.571, \"end\": 577.691, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 577.691, \"end\": 577.951, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 577.951, \"end\": 578.251, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"斷\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 578.251, \"end\": 578.351, \"score\": 0.595}, {\"word\": 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\"然後最近當然包括我們大樹的這樣的光電平和公路的這個光電河山的光電案還有烏山頭水庫的這個光電當時因為時空背景的關係這個案場通過的時候都不需要來做環評\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 596.96, \"end\": 597.14, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 597.14, \"end\": 597.281, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 597.281, \"end\": 597.421, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"近\", \"start\": 597.421, \"end\": 597.841, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 597.841, \"end\": 597.982, \"score\": 0.788}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 597.982, \"end\": 598.162, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"括\", \"start\": 598.162, \"end\": 598.282, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 598.282, \"end\": 598.562, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 598.562, \"end\": 598.983, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"樹\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 598.983, \"end\": 599.404, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 599.404, \"end\": 599.524, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 603.409, \"end\": 603.709, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"烏\"}, {\"word\": \"山\", \"start\": 603.709, \"end\": 604.09, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"水\", \"start\": 604.09, \"end\": 604.53, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"庫\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 604.53, \"end\": 604.831, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 604.831, \"end\": 606.493, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 606.493, \"end\": 606.934, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 606.934, \"end\": 607.194, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"背\", \"start\": 607.194, \"end\": 607.394, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"景\", \"start\": 607.394, \"end\": 607.535, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 607.535, \"end\": 608.997, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 608.997, \"end\": 609.437, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 609.437, \"end\": 609.617, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 609.617, \"end\": 609.938, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 609.938, \"end\": 610.138, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 610.138, \"end\": 610.358, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 610.358, \"end\": 610.539, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 610.539, \"end\": 610.699, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 610.699, \"end\": 610.899, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 610.899, \"end\": 610.919, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"評\"}]}, {\"start\": 612.341, \"end\": 634.563, \"text\": \"那院長說實在的這麼多光電廠都沒有環評導致目前這樣一個狀況那個環境部長也來的是環境部目前在我們1月16號開始做修正對不對我先請問院長一下你知道環境部今年出修正的這個環評之後目前有多少的這個光電案場申請來送到我們環評院長你知道嗎\", 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1417.916, \"end\": 1418.116, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 1418.116, \"end\": 1418.216, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 1418.216, \"end\": 1418.397, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1418.397, \"end\": 1418.417, \"score\": 0.065}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}]}, {\"start\": 1420.178, \"end\": 1447.767, \"text\": \"我只希望院長我今天提出這麼多的問題裡面人為的這個問題還有包括整個的這個開發商所反映出來給我們這些問題如果沒有辦法是徹底的解決的話他們就一個一個就分別走掉那走掉之後呢對於我們未來整個能源的部分裡面從我剛剛質詢的光電到目前為止的風電還有包括整個內部的問題如果沒有辦法從頭到尾給我們一個非常徹底的這樣子的一個非常親民公平公開的這樣一個方式這些問題\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1420.178, \"end\": 1420.378, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 1420.378, \"end\": 1420.538, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 1420.538, \"end\": 1420.658, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 1420.658, \"end\": 1420.818, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 1557.238, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}]}, {\"start\": 1558.455, \"end\": 1579.755, \"text\": \"雙方還在進行最後的總決心會議之前有一些文書文件必須在做確認那目前為止我們還沒有對對方承諾到我們要做什麼對方也沒有承諾你們預估到底什麼時候這整個的數字等的方式可以明朗化我也希望能夠盡快讓所有的產業能夠安定下來我們都希望說十月份是一個好的時機是一個好的進展\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"雙\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 1558.455, \"end\": 1558.816, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1558.816, \"end\": 1559.156, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 1559.156, \"end\": 1559.396, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 1559.396, \"end\": 1559.637, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 1559.637, \"end\": 1559.917, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1559.917, \"end\": 1560.858, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"總\"}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 1560.858, \"end\": 1561.218, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 1561.218, \"end\": 1561.378, \"score\": 0.96}, 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\"end\": 1808.703, \"score\": 0.771}, {\"word\": \"租\", \"start\": 1808.703, \"end\": 1808.863, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 1808.863, \"end\": 1809.663, \"score\": 0.712}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"貼\"}, {\"word\": \"幹\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 1809.663, \"end\": 1810.204, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1810.204, \"end\": 1810.324, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1810.324, \"end\": 1810.424, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"句\", \"start\": 1810.424, \"end\": 1810.444, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1811.224, \"end\": 1811.244, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,945 --> 00:00:09,206\n科委員好\n\n2\n00:00:22,199 --> 00:00:50,098\n卓院长好在我们进入真正质询主题之前我先问一下韩国瑜院长在国庆大典的时候他的致辞然后遭到贵党的发言人的痛批一笑国际荒腔左板失态失格当时我记得你跟韩院长在握手的时候在他讲完握手的时候你还蛮合约的而且大家整个感觉都是还蛮祥和的没想到不久之后贵党就发动一连串的攻击我想请问卓院长\n\n3\n00:00:50,558 --> 00:01:14,403\n你認為韓國瑜院長所提到台灣面臨的問題都不是事實嗎第一個我那天是跟韓院長說他的歌聲很好聽他講的事實他講的事實都不是事實他講的過程我認為我現在關心的不是隱形的晏賽湖是那個實際的晏賽湖還有我們還有在監視廂太崗廈的那所以說貴黨所發動的這一連串的攻擊你自己事先知不知情\n\n4\n00:01:15,353 --> 00:01:30,023\n我當然不知道所以你們現在是黨政都分離就對了所以說秘書長也沒有特別秘書長現在已經不是匆匆容容他現在是慌慌張張的坐著一連串的攻擊但是安安穩穩的在做秘書長的工作所以說你都不知道這些事嗎\n\n5\n00:01:31,164 --> 00:01:50,084\n黨部的發言系統我不知道我只是告訴這個院長你雖然不是黨主席可是為了大罷免完之後草野的和諧宰相肚子能撐船還是要為了和諧的部分這些所謂的攻擊我覺得大可不必更何況我認為韓院長所提出來這些的隱憂哪一個不是事實\n\n6\n00:01:50,745 --> 00:02:09,885\n我們首先就來請教嘛台海這彼此之間的這個風險我們的總統公開就已經承諾在2030年的時候呢國防預算就要達到5%GDP的5%當然我知道那個時候你已經不是院長了啦應該不是了啦但是呢你認為達到GDP的5%台灣是否可以做到\n\n7\n00:02:10,578 --> 00:02:26,321\n那個看我們的國防需要我們的需求在哪裡當然是需要需求看國家的財政能力如何所以說我就算給這個院長來聽我們來一看一下嘛如果照我們台灣這樣子每年的經濟成長大概是2.5%來看的話如果2030年我們有幸我們GDP達到的33.12兆台幣的話如果在5%來說的話那時候的我們的國防經費應該是佔1.52兆到1.6兆\n\n8\n00:02:38,004 --> 00:03:03,163\n这是一个非常大的一个数字那我们当然就会比较关切我说国防自主我每次提到国防的问题我都要非常的小心很怕大家就会说你们在乱砍然后如何如何绝对不是我们从数字来说话那如果是这样子的话我会非常的担心我们一些教育我们的社福我们的医疗我们的民生会造成一些的排挤那如果要如何来做这个解决总统有跟你讨论过吗\n\n9\n00:03:03,809 --> 00:03:23,956\n所以我說我們要衡量我們當時情況第一個國防的需求第二個政府的財政能力當然我們所有的這個社會福利已經支出去的現在的政策沒有辦法走回頭路的很多其實卓院長我現在就非常的擔心我們今天的國防還是創比以前更高你看我們的教育我們教育的經費好不好我要替我們的教育部長說一下話我們根本藍白都還沒有開始審的狀況之下你們就已經把它\n\n10\n00:03:26,917 --> 00:03:50,442\n已經比過去少了200多億教育我們一直符合憲法的精神在編列但是你會告訴我就是裁判那部長你不用上來沒有問題啦我現在只是要算給我們的卓院長聽嘛你看蔡總統她在從2.1%到卸任的時候呢成長到2.5%我們的國防預算她8年才提高了0.4個百分點但是呢你如果要符合我們總統所提到的5%每年都要提高0.42%\n\n11\n00:03:52,962 --> 00:04:17,561\n這是一個非常大的一個數字而且總統還特別提到打造我們台灣之盾我不管他是鐵窮或是金窮我們到底總預算是有多少到底這個總經費是多少他會是一個錢坑法案還是真的就是喊著爽的我現在是有點擔心了而且這個部分裡面我剛收到這個禮拜五國防部所送來的你們報告書裡面呢我沒有看到我們大家所關切的\n\n12\n00:04:17,981 --> 00:04:47,901\n真的如果是对方发动了这个千百架的无人机攻击的时候我们的反制方法这么多的国防预算还有包括我们到底有没有办法有做到一些拦截等等之类的我们最新的这个部分里面我们看到五年的兵力整建的计划当中其实并没有提及那我当然要知道说当然部长也非常的努力嘛我们现在拼了大批的一个预算未来五年当中呢我们要见过超过五万家的无人机的战力没有错吧啊部长但是呢我们要问人手在哪\n\n13\n00:04:48,361 --> 00:05:09,873\n因為我們人力的問題是一個非常大的問題你看我們現在看我們從110年我們每個來看講光是訓練這一些11年到現在到底完訓了多少人合格率到底多少目前流營的狀況到底是什麼我光是細節都不要去講這幾年我們作戰部隊人力已經不足都是公開的秘密了對不對部長你應該很清楚吧\n\n14\n00:05:10,293 --> 00:05:30,067\n志願役的人力嚴重的損失明年大減兩年的兵旅而且一年減少了6784人兩年減少一萬多我想委員這樣的一個訊息是不正確的因為我們每年編的這個人員的維持費在過去要比\n\n15\n00:05:31,058 --> 00:05:53,375\n這個預算的緣額數啊逼我們實際的緣額數要變得高那今年呢我們特別要求務實編列事實上不是實質上但是但是但是部長我們目前為止整個的待遇對於我們的招募的確是面臨非常大人力不足上面的問題你大部分的實際的兵員的編制比例都是不足80%\n\n16\n00:05:54,756 --> 00:06:24,396\n这些都是老的问题然后呢我要特别提出来我们为了这些问题我们想尽所有的办法在野党想尽所有的办法我们对于所谓的薪资各方面的提高还有帮忙解决志愿欲的他们的待遇但是呢这是一个方法但是现在却用事先的方法把它卡住我只是提出我们有这么多的国防预算但是对于人力要能够留得住人的这个问题其实一些的方法可以比那么多的军费来说我们为啥不去思考一下这是一个很大的问题\n\n17\n00:06:24,816 --> 00:06:46,391\n好了沒關係部長你還可以稍微留著我們今年已經增加了171億對國軍的待遇今年我還是強調大野黨三讀通過的部分裡面不用等到實現那未來都會持續增加很多的方式是可以立即來做一些的解決的而且跟我們的國防預算每年的預算比起來我們目前來說這是一個可以解決的方法思考一下而且呢我們接下來再問一個\n\n18\n00:06:47,372 --> 00:07:06,648\n有关于我们不但强调韧性但是能源的供应就好像我们的阿斯利斯建一样你看我们的天然气就是根据数据来的我们天然气储存11天这个源头还是我们的国防政策我们的能源的政策你看我们114年到116年大家可以看到分别的储量就是10.69.811.4\n\n19\n00:07:09,170 --> 00:07:31,770\n而且呢法定的天数来说真的是都是不足然后呢我们的国防部长也说了为了要解决这个问题呢你说我们要提升油料的储存规划向中油采购32亿余元的油料来分散储存那我想请问部长这32应该问到院长了那这32亿的油料要放在什么地方\n\n20\n00:07:32,366 --> 00:07:59,387\n你要如何支援發電我們是請中油來代囤所以呢它這樣可以做一個分散的囤儲所以我們當需要的時候到了每一個所在的地方的時候我們可以讓這些囤儲的這個油要存放在哪裡我們大家很關心要存放在哪裡它中油有各種各樣的一些分散囤儲的地方然後再利用這一個我們所需要的時機實施這個後勤補給到我們需要的作戰地境\n\n21\n00:08:00,100 --> 00:08:22,672\n我觉得这个部分里面就是要放在什么地方可以维持多有但是非常的关切的好了部长你可以请回座接下来我问一下卓院长啊为了稳定这个电力部长国防部长目前为止OK了好稳定供应部分里面呢我们台电就不断在做这个整个建制这个燃气机组但是呢院长我们目前来说的话真的根据数据来说真的还是比预期落后\n\n22\n00:08:23,092 --> 00:08:49,146\n而且還在施工規劃裡面測試的階段你看我們所落後的部分機組落後大概是一年到八年院長你有沒有看到而且為了趕工甚至把一些商轉都把它提前導致整個監工都會有一些的問題那你現在看一下台電的夜間備用的容量已經是連續三年沒有達到法定的標準法定標準是15%你看111年到113年分別的這個數字\n\n23\n00:08:50,327 --> 00:09:00,139\n所以我們經濟部署預估未來我們還要AI我們還要算力我們還要等等這個部分然後你已經看到了我們114年即將發生的到116年我們這個夜間的備轉容量會降到8.5%10.8%還有8.5%這個幾乎是我們目標值的五成到六成\n\n24\n00:09:09,691 --> 00:09:30,006\n夜間不是15%報告委員夜間沒有到15%就是我根據你們的數字不是夜間真的是6%大家現在都知道這個數字不是我們說你們衛健降到8.5%10.3%這是根據我們的數字我們也比較關切說難道完全是不缺電嗎完全是不缺電嗎這是要提供院長你來做一些數據上面的參考接下來我還是要問光電的問題我們光電問題也是黏黏的這個真的是為了要加速這個再生能源\n\n25\n00:09:36,070 --> 00:09:56,400\n我們其實從蔡政府開始就已經不斷地去蓋我們這個光電板然後呢說實在的我們一些的好山好水真的是有被破壞掉然後呢很多的亂象到目前為止都還是浮現了即使對於我們的生態的破壞真的是無庸置疑的啦然後呢颱風一來其實也是災難了我想這個部分大家都會看到\n\n26\n00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:10,919\n然後最近當然包括我們大樹的這樣的光電平和公路的這個光電河山的光電案還有烏山頭水庫的這個光電當時因為時空背景的關係這個案場通過的時候都不需要來做環評\n\n27\n00:10:12,341 --> 00:10:34,563\n那院長說實在的這麼多光電廠都沒有環評導致目前這樣一個狀況那個環境部長也來的是環境部目前在我們1月16號開始做修正對不對我先請問院長一下你知道環境部今年出修正的這個環評之後目前有多少的這個光電案場申請來送到我們環評院長你知道嗎\n\n28\n00:10:35,558 --> 00:11:03,651\n這個要請部長來看書沒關係院長有多少環評有三件送過來不過因為他沒有完整我們有退回你看三件這麼嚴格的環評通過之後呢以前大家做大力的不斷的送件好不好因為不需要像你有一個設定之後呢這是第一次退回我們這個光電廠的環評嘛對不對就是有我們的寶樹寶堯寶龍三家在屏東的老皮農場三件那部長院長為什麼只有這三件\n\n29\n00:11:04,511 --> 00:11:28,856\n你知道為什麼嗎報告委員我們有一定的標準有一定的規格那就表示其實它涵蓋就是兩個意義嘛一個意義就是過去實在太腐爛了嘛以前怎麼送就怎麼OK嘛然後呢大家趁不需要還平的時候全部送完了啦全部送完了那你這三間都被你們退貨表示什麼表示目前來申請的其實資格都不太符合啦所以才會造成我們現在其實是非常為難的不是嗎\n\n30\n00:11:31,211 --> 00:11:57,248\n我們光電一定要有一定的面積還有一定的MW才會需要環評全世界都是一樣我們台灣算是比日本還要嚴格第二個我們台灣的光電目前所佔我們的土地的面積只佔了0.41%那台南比較高接近2%左右那我想請問一下我也曾經問過這個能源署到底我們掉到目前為止你知道有多少違法的光電開發的案場嗎目前有多少我給你們能源署掉\n\n31\n00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:27,643\n有人可以回答這個部分嗎有多少違法開發的案場像大家都非常的關切我告訴你答案能說只有五件院長你相信只有五件嗎你相信只有五件嗎應該有更詳細的是應該有更詳細而且我不相信五件然後呢到目前為止還都不能告訴我具體的案場在哪裡我覺得立法委員要資料天經地義啊我們想了解所以問了老半天然後呢我們想了解整個狀況到底是如何問了老半天終於送來一個資料了好五件\n\n32\n00:12:28,323 --> 00:12:48,231\n台南一個高雄一個嘉義澎湖兩界然後呢最重要是你被開罰都是100到200萬其他細節我都問不到光天的利益動不動就動則上億然後你開罰100到200我們要問地點我們要問細節我們要不到任何的資料你覺得這是我們名單應該是監督監督政府的角色跟責任嗎院長你覺得合理嗎\n\n33\n00:12:49,481 --> 00:13:07,815\n請委員相信我們絕不容許光電變成一個非法集團在那邊謀取利益的那是不是起碼可以給我們更好的資料可不可以給我們更詳細的資料讓我們更能夠嚴格的監督要什麼資料完全沒有經營部能源署一定要把各地現在這個有疑問的地方我們一一的把它清查清楚\n\n34\n00:13:07,995 --> 00:13:28,930\n而且好那我們就回到你剛說我們需要土地沒有錯能源水準所告訴我們是參考國際的一個標準在太陽光電的這個部分裡面的旗艦計畫你們說你們告訴我在2035年的時候呢要有35.02的GigaWatt當作目標請問35.2的這個GigaWatt是需要多少土地有沒有辦法算出來\n\n35\n00:13:29,878 --> 00:13:43,147\n如果是照你們的國際標準的話參考國際標準2035年要35GW我告訴我們這樣推算過來比照的這樣推估至少土地需要4.4萬公頃比較好說法就是1692個大安森林公園\n\n36\n00:13:50,011 --> 00:14:10,720\n我們有這麼多的土地嗎我們有這麼多的土地嗎而且呢經濟部有沒有去盤點我比較重視有沒有去盤點有沒有跟我們的內政部有沒有跟我們的農業部去討論過我們當然很希望能夠蓋在我們的屋頂這個地方但是你廢屋頂的部分我們需要這麼多的土地而且我們要犧牲4萬多公頃那我們台灣哪裡找到這麼大的土地面積我們的農業怎麼辦\n\n37\n00:14:12,501 --> 00:14:27,746\n这些都需要大家共同来盘点可是我们目前没有看到只看到一个目标在那个地方其他都没有看到所以说呢我就说完全要以那这个能源署说要以公家的土地为优先好了公家土地就做一个叫做台糖啊就叫一个台糖啊\n\n38\n00:14:28,286 --> 00:14:49,361\n所以說呢很多人就開始要談談這個台塘的這個土地我只是到目前為止沒有人可以直接回應這樣的部分所以說呢我只希望在我們規劃這些事情的時候呢真的要嗎你們告訴我2035要達到這樣的目標做不到不然就是吹牛不然你就告訴我土地在哪裡院長真的是非常重要\n\n39\n00:14:49,901 --> 00:15:13,099\n那你找不到土地你就找到我们海边就找到我们这个制红池就找到我们的水库你看最近非常爆红的这个乌山头水库大的这个太阳板我现在想了解一下啊这么多的水库建制这个光电板当然很多人你们都已经做出很多的澄清对我们用水没有问题同意你们专家说什么我们就给我们一个好的一个方式我们不纠结在这个地方\n\n40\n00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:33,322\n只是大家不断在讲那个时候的水库连水保法都不能开发为什么可以重点而且昨天我们的经济部长还有我们的陈俊进部长都在经济委员说不核准台南四座水库来开发那我想请问一下是只有台南的水库目前为止不准开发还是全台湾省都不准开发\n\n41\n00:15:34,383 --> 00:16:00,502\n跟我們報告不論是屋頂型或是地面型我們當初都有盤整只是在過程當中我們會滾動式的檢討用什麼方式來做會比較順暢那現在我們開發除了地上之外我們現在往這個水面我早上也說過了院長我現在非常害怕滾動式你看那個環保這個環境部滾動式到檢討完畢之後送上來都不通過那之前的每個人就是猛送滾動式有時候是太慢了\n\n42\n00:16:00,902 --> 00:16:25,985\n因为像目前爆发的这么多的问题而且我真的慎重的说我们中央不应该推给给地方来做决定因为这种乱象我真的认为说应该是在因为全国国这个国土的计划当中呢只想把这个太阳光电纳入这个空间可是却以整个内能的发展定立这个计划的规则还有总量的管制我们目前为止地方政府真是完全无所适从你知道吗\n\n43\n00:16:26,765 --> 00:16:44,140\n我們三個原則第一個我們現在還是要多元開發綠能這個是其中一項第二個已經存在這個水面上的我們一定要環境部強力的去檢測水質一定要確保沒有問題第三個未來未來要做的如果我們對安全檢測對水質的維護沒有把握人力上做不到\n\n44\n00:16:44,600 --> 00:17:05,059\n我们就不允许我还是强烈的希望院长你能够承诺跟经济部一起承诺我们中央未来在定立这些规则的时候你要纳入直辖现实的国土计划让地方有所运行然后要资讯一定要非常透明不要让我们没有拿不到资料这个问题而且要经过公民跟专家审议之后呢才作为一个政策的目标我觉得这部分是非常重要的\n\n45\n00:17:05,299 --> 00:17:34,626\n我下面提供这几个建议我没有时间一一来去念但是有关于建立这些机制还有这些包括你要给我们一份很详细的这个极端天气应变还有包括你怎么样在这个灾前的这个预防性的降载还有包括拆除的SOP等等这些我都提供给相关单位我希望院长能够很清楚的看待因为我们台湾已经面临这个部分再怎么样一个能源政策既然是你们既定的目标你们又希望能够拓展光电光电又造成我们现在所看到的这么多的问题\n\n46\n00:17:35,126 --> 00:17:54,726\n一個法定的一個SOP我覺得是目前為止彼此之間都可以得到最大的一個共識好好把它定好我覺得這個部分是非常重要的好不好謝謝兩位部長還有台灣再生能源我說實在的兩位部長可以先回座我們就要請經濟部長好不好我要問一下這個部分是\n\n47\n00:17:57,313 --> 00:18:25,587\n這個海外再生能源的規劃我們都交給經濟部下面的綠推中心但是呢綠能的推手呢這個前副執行長這已經是過去新聞但是還是有很多後續的部分我還是要請教一下這個前副執行長鄭一寧因為貪污然後目前正在被押解當中綠推中心現在很多人認為變收賄中心當時的執行長就是我們現在的經濟部長龔明星我們的龔部長請問發生這麼大的狀況有誰為這件事情負起責任嗎\n\n48\n00:18:30,125 --> 00:18:58,240\n跟委員報告因為這個案子它已經進入到司法程序我知道到司法程序可是但是我們內部還是有做一些調查了解然後呢那了解一下就是說到底這樣的一個案件為什麼會發生然後我們也了解就是說在整個綠推中心的執行這個綠綠政策的過程裡面你們現在都把它變成司法調查你們內部的行政調查什麼還是一句話院長我只要跟你抱抱怨一下要資料什麼都要不到\n\n49\n00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:24,150\n真的要的资料都都会要不到然后呢我真的很怀疑前经济部长郭志辉说这个部分里面够咖啡我真的不晓得你们是因为他他没有讲出他导播你们叫他走人还是他知道还是怎么样因为呢这个部分就已经暴露出来的然后呢为什么掌握巨额的绿电投资要交给可以直达府方跟行政院长小英男孩我不能够理解经济部这么多的人才\n\n50\n00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:53,801\n这么多的人才为什么交给他因为我们收到非常多的一些资料为什么要这样子因为呢一个不受监督最主要院长他是不受我们立法院监督的很多人为了要直通上面要透过他有非常多的这个细节我不晓得你们行政内部调查调查到什么程度我现在也没有看到我光是问他一个为什么一个这样子环境还不错的这样子大家培养的明日之星他为什么说会说我想最直接的方式我问到他他目前的薪资多少\n\n51\n00:19:54,361 --> 00:20:08,258\n我也問不出來他說這是各自問題問題是院長的心思我知道啊部長的心思我也知道總統的心思我也知道立委的心思也知道這位完全不受掌控的綠推中心的心思問不出來你要不要現在告訴我\n\n52\n00:20:09,648 --> 00:20:34,813\n跟我們報告那因為他資歷的這個薪資他是在各地方政府對不對相關的這個計畫裡面來來這個那是多少資用人力的這個薪資的費用連這個費用我都還看不到我只看得到什麼部分你106到140預推中心共編了5億4千萬而且業務費是逐年的降低的這麼多階段性的任務院長你認為不認為該\n\n53\n00:20:36,893 --> 00:21:03,571\n結束了不受我們也不受旋轉門條款什麼都不受任何的監督一個幣案出來然後呢這裡面呢你看看太陽光電土地潰線協調離岸風電投資領選作業等等從頭到尾都是由他來主管而且你們太喜歡他了還把他當作是台智電的這樣的一個總經理然後呢另外一個台智電問題也出來了好不好你把這個綠色綠色中心我先問一下\n\n54\n00:21:04,231 --> 00:21:29,618\n綠推中心先回到剛剛那邊你認為綠推中心是不是要裁撤回到我們經濟部這麼多人才你覺得是不是要裁撤綠推中心其實除了做政策規劃以外他也收集了很多的一些國際間推動綠能相關的一些資訊供我們政策參考那另外就是說所以你認為還是有存在嗎綠推中心還是有它存在\n\n55\n00:21:31,098 --> 00:21:56,624\n行政调查如果没有给我们一个很满意的结果还有你的不断的在这样往下如果在发生这样的部分而且没有旋转门条款的一个限制太多东西都是我们没有办法看到的特别是我刚刚所提到的台制电的问题你看这一点有很大的争议你们对他真的非常的爱护你让他做台制电的总经理然后台制电请问像开发商买了多少电你知道目前为止台制电跟开发商买了多少电吗\n\n56\n00:21:57,678 --> 00:22:20,446\n當初設定的目的多少?目前都正在洽談中即將有一些案子其實目前來說大概只有25%到30%剩下的東西都還是要由開發商自己去想辦法去找買家而且有雜誌特別提到了目前市場就傳出這不是他們還是有根據的目前市場就傳出台積電為了賺錢\n\n57\n00:22:22,026 --> 00:22:36,016\n所以呢在千元買電的時候呢故意把價格壓低所以讓我們的開發商紛紛跳腳想退出然後呢有沒有這件事你們掌握的訊息有沒有這件事跟我們報告其實台智電他是扮演一個就是媒合這個\n\n58\n00:22:38,398 --> 00:23:02,398\n這個開發商跟用電戶的這樣的一個角色那絕對不會說有價格壓低壓低價格的一個現象絕對不會有這個部分所以說你看有能力者把已經取得的這個建制風場的資格選擇離開這也是一個事實很多外商公司選擇離開他們最後是放棄我們台灣的市場那你們有沒有不知道你有沒有掌握多少開發商因此撤出台灣\n\n59\n00:23:03,790 --> 00:23:23,881\n跟我們報告那開發商有一些是因為就是說整個這個在尋找國內這個供應鏈的這個過程可能在這個程序上他們可能會認為是要下多少測出來的嗎目前來講大概有幾件他就是已經\n\n60\n00:23:25,643 --> 00:23:38,417\n跟我們這個合約已經解除了那你覺得這些外資撤除之後會不會對我們未來的這整個投資封地的意願因此就大幅的降低應該不會因為我們還會有第三三期的這個三至三的這個開發\n\n61\n00:23:40,178 --> 00:24:07,767\n我只希望院長我今天提出這麼多的問題裡面人為的這個問題還有包括整個的這個開發商所反映出來給我們這些問題如果沒有辦法是徹底的解決的話他們就一個一個就分別走掉那走掉之後呢對於我們未來整個能源的部分裡面從我剛剛質詢的光電到目前為止的風電還有包括整個內部的問題如果沒有辦法從頭到尾給我們一個非常徹底的這樣子的一個非常親民公平公開的這樣一個方式這些問題\n\n62\n00:24:08,667 --> 00:24:33,668\n還是沒有辦法做一個解決的持續開發綠能是政府的政策我們不會讓他從此中斷我們會跟開發商跟國內廠商再合力第二點剛剛您說的綠推中心我現在除了要求我們行政調查要清楚現起出來之後要求加強他的行政監督外部監督內部的這些控管都要強化起來我們才有辦法讓他不會再產生相同的弊病\n\n63\n00:24:34,025 --> 00:24:58,670\n而且這裡面不受監督的單位當中院長你可能也要去徹查一下不受單位裡面蓋的這麼多鐵船交的這些單位裡面很多人的因素可能就會壞掉你們整個部分所以說一定要是特別是還是我強調不受監督的單位當中這些人的因素你一定要否則後面的未報單可能就會打垮很多行政團隊的一個專業好不好好\n\n64\n00:25:00,810 --> 00:25:20,363\n接下來我還是要特別提到我們總統在國慶演說當中有非常多亮麗的數字我們提出這個部分裡面包括我們面對對等的關稅所以我想院長應該都非常的清楚我們出口的市場的貨品都是高度集中在資通跟電子零件\n\n65\n00:25:21,724 --> 00:25:51,127\n是什么那其实很多的制造业到目前为止下滑而且还没有恢复我们目前有非常多无薪假特别是我们高雄的很多传产做了很多的努力但是大家也在挫泪因为不晓得未来到底是如何那我也知道目前都在谈判的阶段虽然这美国商业部长曾经提出的55要求已经被行政院给这个已经否认了认为说不会接受这样的一个条件那我再请问嘛因为目前为止马上就要揭露这些可能的一个数字\n\n66\n00:25:51,607 --> 00:25:57,238\n如果他們提出四六分或三七分等等這樣的方式裡面我覺得行政院的底線到底在哪裡\n\n67\n00:25:58,455 --> 00:26:19,755\n雙方還在進行最後的總決心會議之前有一些文書文件必須在做確認那目前為止我們還沒有對對方承諾到我們要做什麼對方也沒有承諾你們預估到底什麼時候這整個的數字等的方式可以明朗化我也希望能夠盡快讓所有的產業能夠安定下來我們都希望說十月份是一個好的時機是一個好的進展\n\n68\n00:26:22,017 --> 00:26:37,583\n因為對方的政府現在也陷入一種幾乎半空轉的狀態也是在衡量很多的現實問題我們有所有的數字裡面出口都是衰退的但是大家就是在擔心我們到底除了這個數字之外不管是2025這個數字之外\n\n69\n00:26:39,744 --> 00:26:57,737\n到底台湾让利多少我还是要从这个院长的口中了解一下因为其实身为台美这个这个联谊会的会长其实有很多的时候就跟美国官方来做一些的会谈他们其实对于所谓的对外的贸易屏障的部分他们是非常在乎的啊然后呢我想请问这个院长\n\n70\n00:26:58,157 --> 00:27:14,839\n很多的時候美國有當面在我們談判的過程裡面要求我們取消包括我們基改還有包括我們這些肉品有包括取消產地標示放寬基改進入校園這樣子的一個說法嗎目前為止有沒有這個我們當然是維持在我們這個\n\n71\n00:27:16,352 --> 00:27:30,827\n國民健康的這個立場上我們不會去放鬆我們的立場雙方談判都有談到很多很多的案子但是我們堅持那四個原則國家利益產業利益國人的健康以及糧食安全這四個部分我們不會放掉的\n\n72\n00:27:31,229 --> 00:27:59,819\n所以目前來說的話有這麼多裡面提到我們校園裡面的實際的安全很多的時候大家就會很擔心因為這部分已經流傳非常多的我並沒有提到這麼實際上實際技的部分裡面不要忘記了川普跟習近平在十月底的時候在韓國裡面的這個部分裡面有會做一些的我們行政院這部分裡面有沒有做出任何的一個推演台灣目前的一個角色還有未來他們在會談之後我們至於對於我們未來的關稅會做出什麼樣的一個處理\n\n73\n00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:25,797\n院長有沒有辦法在我們這個地方然後告訴我們因為現在已經十月只有兩個禮拜的時間了關稅還是希望能夠有合理的稅率同時不疊加同時對232再爭取更優惠的稅率這三項原則那我們現在提出一個台灣模式我想我也注意到了用企業自主去投資而且政府來做金融保證雙方政府之間美方政府跟我方之間用政府之間來做合作形成我們產業的聚落\n\n74\n00:28:26,477 --> 00:28:55,704\n美方會在我們水電行政以及簽證各方面給我們很多的協助我覺得這是院長你所提出的一個美好的計畫到底最後的一個實際的狀況還有包括我們整個的產業鏈移過去裡面整個真正的指導著他們這些廠商到底目前的狀況是怎麼樣我們其實都還未定所以我覺得這是院長可以提出願景但是實際的操作我覺得還是困難光是台積電到我們鳳凰城去光是人力的這個部分裡面其實也面臨非常大的挑戰沒有人可以像我們台灣的人力可以在那邊\n\n75\n00:28:56,244 --> 00:29:24,753\n受苦受難還可以這麼有阿信精神的不是每一個單位都可以像我們這樣子台灣最棒的台灣最棒的就是我們的人力啦所以我還是要提出來了這個部分裡面就是有關最後一個提出就是我們有關於我們人力的低薪問題院長你知道我們目前為止年輕人的低薪這個薪資低於3.1萬到底有多少人嗎120萬當中有多少人嗎3.1萬差不多是3.3萬多不好意思3萬多的最低低薪的目前年輕人當中有多少人你知道嗎\n\n76\n00:29:25,293 --> 00:29:40,427\n我們在最近調整最低薪資的時候我們如果最低是調到29590的話會有170幾萬的人其實低薪的問題是歷屆總統都非常擔心的院長你看一下面臨的低薪的困境裡面全台低於3.1萬勞工的有120萬人年輕人就佔了100萬\n\n77\n00:29:45,751 --> 00:30:10,444\n就占了100萬3.1萬這個是教他們怎麼生活然後就占了100萬所以我們用更多的家庭支持來降低他的負擔你覺得有辦法在這個過程當中這或許我只是提出這個數字我只告訴身為一個大學老師我的學生畢業之後然後他們都已經變成他們都還是年輕人可是他們家就在suffer這樣的一個薪水政府不管提出的租金補貼幹嘛還是一句話\n\n78\n00:30:11,224 --> 00:30:11,244\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8945\t9206\t科委員好\n22199\t50098\t卓院长好在我们进入真正质询主题之前我先问一下韩国瑜院长在国庆大典的时候他的致辞然后遭到贵党的发言人的痛批一笑国际荒腔左板失态失格当时我记得你跟韩院长在握手的时候在他讲完握手的时候你还蛮合约的而且大家整个感觉都是还蛮祥和的没想到不久之后贵党就发动一连串的攻击我想请问卓院长\n50558\t74403\t你認為韓國瑜院長所提到台灣面臨的問題都不是事實嗎第一個我那天是跟韓院長說他的歌聲很好聽他講的事實他講的事實都不是事實他講的過程我認為我現在關心的不是隱形的晏賽湖是那個實際的晏賽湖還有我們還有在監視廂太崗廈的那所以說貴黨所發動的這一連串的攻擊你自己事先知不知情\n75353\t90023\t我當然不知道所以你們現在是黨政都分離就對了所以說秘書長也沒有特別秘書長現在已經不是匆匆容容他現在是慌慌張張的坐著一連串的攻擊但是安安穩穩的在做秘書長的工作所以說你都不知道這些事嗎\n91164\t110084\t黨部的發言系統我不知道我只是告訴這個院長你雖然不是黨主席可是為了大罷免完之後草野的和諧宰相肚子能撐船還是要為了和諧的部分這些所謂的攻擊我覺得大可不必更何況我認為韓院長所提出來這些的隱憂哪一個不是事實\n110745\t129885\t我們首先就來請教嘛台海這彼此之間的這個風險我們的總統公開就已經承諾在2030年的時候呢國防預算就要達到5%GDP的5%當然我知道那個時候你已經不是院長了啦應該不是了啦但是呢你認為達到GDP的5%台灣是否可以做到\n130578\t146321\t那個看我們的國防需要我們的需求在哪裡當然是需要需求看國家的財政能力如何所以說我就算給這個院長來聽我們來一看一下嘛如果照我們台灣這樣子每年的經濟成長大概是2.5%來看的話如果2030年我們有幸我們GDP達到的33.12兆台幣的話如果在5%來說的話那時候的我們的國防經費應該是佔1.52兆到1.6兆\n158004\t183163\t这是一个非常大的一个数字那我们当然就会比较关切我说国防自主我每次提到国防的问题我都要非常的小心很怕大家就会说你们在乱砍然后如何如何绝对不是我们从数字来说话那如果是这样子的话我会非常的担心我们一些教育我们的社福我们的医疗我们的民生会造成一些的排挤那如果要如何来做这个解决总统有跟你讨论过吗\n183809\t203956\t所以我說我們要衡量我們當時情況第一個國防的需求第二個政府的財政能力當然我們所有的這個社會福利已經支出去的現在的政策沒有辦法走回頭路的很多其實卓院長我現在就非常的擔心我們今天的國防還是創比以前更高你看我們的教育我們教育的經費好不好我要替我們的教育部長說一下話我們根本藍白都還沒有開始審的狀況之下你們就已經把它\n206917\t230442\t已經比過去少了200多億教育我們一直符合憲法的精神在編列但是你會告訴我就是裁判那部長你不用上來沒有問題啦我現在只是要算給我們的卓院長聽嘛你看蔡總統她在從2.1%到卸任的時候呢成長到2.5%我們的國防預算她8年才提高了0.4個百分點但是呢你如果要符合我們總統所提到的5%每年都要提高0.42%\n232962\t257561\t這是一個非常大的一個數字而且總統還特別提到打造我們台灣之盾我不管他是鐵窮或是金窮我們到底總預算是有多少到底這個總經費是多少他會是一個錢坑法案還是真的就是喊著爽的我現在是有點擔心了而且這個部分裡面我剛收到這個禮拜五國防部所送來的你們報告書裡面呢我沒有看到我們大家所關切的\n257981\t287901\t真的如果是对方发动了这个千百架的无人机攻击的时候我们的反制方法这么多的国防预算还有包括我们到底有没有办法有做到一些拦截等等之类的我们最新的这个部分里面我们看到五年的兵力整建的计划当中其实并没有提及那我当然要知道说当然部长也非常的努力嘛我们现在拼了大批的一个预算未来五年当中呢我们要见过超过五万家的无人机的战力没有错吧啊部长但是呢我们要问人手在哪\n288361\t309873\t因為我們人力的問題是一個非常大的問題你看我們現在看我們從110年我們每個來看講光是訓練這一些11年到現在到底完訓了多少人合格率到底多少目前流營的狀況到底是什麼我光是細節都不要去講這幾年我們作戰部隊人力已經不足都是公開的秘密了對不對部長你應該很清楚吧\n310293\t330067\t志願役的人力嚴重的損失明年大減兩年的兵旅而且一年減少了6784人兩年減少一萬多我想委員這樣的一個訊息是不正確的因為我們每年編的這個人員的維持費在過去要比\n331058\t353375\t這個預算的緣額數啊逼我們實際的緣額數要變得高那今年呢我們特別要求務實編列事實上不是實質上但是但是但是部長我們目前為止整個的待遇對於我們的招募的確是面臨非常大人力不足上面的問題你大部分的實際的兵員的編制比例都是不足80%\n354756\t384396\t这些都是老的问题然后呢我要特别提出来我们为了这些问题我们想尽所有的办法在野党想尽所有的办法我们对于所谓的薪资各方面的提高还有帮忙解决志愿欲的他们的待遇但是呢这是一个方法但是现在却用事先的方法把它卡住我只是提出我们有这么多的国防预算但是对于人力要能够留得住人的这个问题其实一些的方法可以比那么多的军费来说我们为啥不去思考一下这是一个很大的问题\n384816\t406391\t好了 沒關係 部長你還可以稍微留著我們今年已經增加了171億對國軍的待遇 今年我還是強調 大野黨三讀通過的部分裡面不用等到實現 那未來都會持續增加很多的方式是可以立即來做一些的解決的而且跟我們的國防預算 每年的預算比起來我們目前來說 這是一個可以解決的方法 思考一下而且呢 我們接下來再問一個\n407372\t426648\t有关于我们不但强调韧性但是能源的供应就好像我们的阿斯利斯建一样你看我们的天然气就是根据数据来的我们天然气储存11天这个源头还是我们的国防政策我们的能源的政策你看我们114年到116年大家可以看到分别的储量就是10.6 9.8 11.4\n429170\t451770\t而且呢法定的天数来说真的是都是不足然后呢我们的国防部长也说了为了要解决这个问题呢你说我们要提升油料的储存规划向中油采购32亿余元的油料来分散储存那我想请问部长这32应该问到院长了那这32亿的油料要放在什么地方\n452366\t479387\t你要如何支援發電我們是請中油來代囤所以呢它這樣可以做一個分散的囤儲所以我們當需要的時候到了每一個所在的地方的時候我們可以讓這些囤儲的這個油要存放在哪裡我們大家很關心要存放在哪裡它中油有各種各樣的一些分散囤儲的地方然後再利用這一個我們所需要的時機實施這個後勤補給到我們需要的作戰地境\n480100\t502672\t我觉得这个部分里面就是要放在什么地方可以维持多有但是非常的关切的好了部长你可以请回座接下来我问一下卓院长啊为了稳定这个电力部长国防部长目前为止OK了好稳定供应部分里面呢我们台电就不断在做这个整个建制这个燃气机组但是呢院长我们目前来说的话真的根据数据来说真的还是比预期落后\n503092\t529146\t而且還在施工規劃裡面測試的階段你看我們所落後的部分機組落後大概是一年到八年院長你有沒有看到而且為了趕工甚至把一些商轉都把它提前導致整個監工都會有一些的問題那你現在看一下台電的夜間備用的容量已經是連續三年沒有達到法定的標準法定標準是15%你看111年到113年分別的這個數字\n530327\t540139\t所以我們經濟部署預估未來我們還要AI我們還要算力我們還要等等這個部分然後你已經看到了我們114年即將發生的到116年我們這個夜間的備轉容量會降到8.5%10.8%還有8.5%這個幾乎是我們目標值的五成到六成\n549691\t570006\t夜間不是15% 報告委員 夜間沒有到15%就是我根據你們的數字不是 夜間真的是6% 大家現在都知道這個數字不是 我們說你們衛健降到8.5% 10.3%這是根據我們的數字我們也比較關切說 難道完全是不缺電嗎完全是不缺電嗎這是要提供院長你來做一些數據上面的參考接下來我還是要問光電的問題我們光電問題也是黏黏的這個真的是為了要加速這個再生能源\n576070\t596400\t我們其實從蔡政府開始就已經不斷地去蓋我們這個光電板然後呢說實在的我們一些的好山好水真的是有被破壞掉然後呢很多的亂象到目前為止都還是浮現了即使對於我們的生態的破壞真的是無庸置疑的啦然後呢颱風一來其實也是災難了我想這個部分大家都會看到\n596960\t610919\t然後最近當然包括我們大樹的這樣的光電平和公路的這個光電河山的光電案還有烏山頭水庫的這個光電當時因為時空背景的關係這個案場通過的時候都不需要來做環評\n612341\t634563\t那院長說實在的這麼多光電廠都沒有環評導致目前這樣一個狀況那個環境部長也來的是環境部目前在我們1月16號開始做修正對不對我先請問院長一下你知道環境部今年出修正的這個環評之後目前有多少的這個光電案場申請來送到我們環評院長你知道嗎\n635558\t663651\t這個要請部長來看書沒關係院長有多少環評有三件送過來不過因為他沒有完整我們有退回你看三件這麼嚴格的環評通過之後呢以前大家做大力的不斷的送件好不好因為不需要像你有一個設定之後呢這是第一次退回我們這個光電廠的環評嘛對不對就是有我們的寶樹寶堯寶龍三家在屏東的老皮農場三件那部長院長為什麼只有這三件\n664511\t688856\t你知道為什麼嗎報告委員我們有一定的標準有一定的規格那就表示其實它涵蓋就是兩個意義嘛一個意義就是過去實在太腐爛了嘛以前怎麼送就怎麼OK嘛然後呢大家趁不需要還平的時候全部送完了啦全部送完了那你這三間都被你們退貨表示什麼表示目前來申請的其實資格都不太符合啦所以才會造成我們現在其實是非常為難的不是嗎\n691211\t717248\t我們光電一定要有一定的面積還有一定的MW才會需要環評全世界都是一樣我們台灣算是比日本還要嚴格第二個我們台灣的光電目前所佔我們的土地的面積只佔了0.41%那台南比較高接近2%左右那我想請問一下我也曾經問過這個能源署到底我們掉到目前為止你知道有多少違法的光電開發的案場嗎目前有多少我給你們能源署掉\n719200\t747643\t有人可以回答這個部分嗎有多少違法開發的案場像大家都非常的關切我告訴你答案能說只有五件院長你相信只有五件嗎你相信只有五件嗎應該有更詳細的是應該有更詳細而且我不相信五件然後呢到目前為止還都不能告訴我具體的案場在哪裡我覺得立法委員要資料天經地義啊我們想了解所以問了老半天然後呢我們想了解整個狀況到底是如何問了老半天終於送來一個資料了好五件\n748323\t768231\t台南一個高雄一個嘉義澎湖兩界然後呢最重要是你被開罰都是100到200萬其他細節我都問不到光天的利益動不動就動則上億然後你開罰100到200我們要問地點我們要問細節我們要不到任何的資料你覺得這是我們名單應該是監督監督政府的角色跟責任嗎院長你覺得合理嗎\n769481\t787815\t請委員相信我們絕不容許光電變成一個非法集團在那邊謀取利益的那是不是起碼可以給我們更好的資料可不可以給我們更詳細的資料讓我們更能夠嚴格的監督要什麼資料 完全沒有經營部 能源署一定要把各地現在這個有疑問的地方我們一一的把它清查清楚\n787995\t808930\t而且好那我們就回到你剛說我們需要土地沒有錯能源水準所告訴我們是參考國際的一個標準在太陽光電的這個部分裡面的旗艦計畫你們說你們告訴我在2035年的時候呢要有35.02的GigaWatt當作目標請問35.2的這個GigaWatt是需要多少土地有沒有辦法算出來\n809878\t823147\t如果是照你們的國際標準的話參考國際標準2035年要35GW我告訴我們這樣推算過來比照的這樣推估至少土地需要4.4萬公頃比較好說法就是1692個大安森林公園\n830011\t850720\t我們有這麼多的土地嗎我們有這麼多的土地嗎而且呢經濟部有沒有去盤點我比較重視有沒有去盤點有沒有跟我們的內政部有沒有跟我們的農業部去討論過我們當然很希望能夠蓋在我們的屋頂這個地方但是你廢屋頂的部分我們需要這麼多的土地而且我們要犧牲4萬多公頃那我們台灣哪裡找到這麼大的土地面積我們的農業怎麼辦\n852501\t867746\t这些都需要大家共同来盘点可是我们目前没有看到只看到一个目标在那个地方其他都没有看到所以说呢我就说完全要以那这个能源署说要以公家的土地为优先好了公家土地就做一个叫做台糖啊就叫一个台糖啊\n868286\t889361\t所以說呢很多人就開始要談談這個台塘的這個土地我只是到目前為止沒有人可以直接回應這樣的部分所以說呢我只希望在我們規劃這些事情的時候呢真的要嗎你們告訴我2035要達到這樣的目標做不到不然就是吹牛不然你就告訴我土地在哪裡院長真的是非常重要\n889901\t913099\t那你找不到土地你就找到我们海边就找到我们这个制红池就找到我们的水库你看最近非常爆红的这个乌山头水库大的这个太阳板我现在想了解一下啊这么多的水库建制这个光电板当然很多人你们都已经做出很多的澄清对我们用水没有问题同意你们专家说什么我们就给我们一个好的一个方式我们不纠结在这个地方\n913519\t933322\t只是大家不断在讲那个时候的水库连水保法都不能开发为什么可以重点而且昨天我们的经济部长还有我们的陈俊进部长都在经济委员说不核准台南四座水库来开发那我想请问一下是只有台南的水库目前为止不准开发还是全台湾省都不准开发\n934383\t960502\t跟我們報告不論是屋頂型或是地面型我們當初都有盤整只是在過程當中我們會滾動式的檢討用什麼方式來做會比較順暢那現在我們開發除了地上之外我們現在往這個水面我早上也說過了院長我現在非常害怕滾動式你看那個環保這個環境部滾動式到檢討完畢之後送上來都不通過那之前的每個人就是猛送滾動式有時候是太慢了\n960902\t985985\t因为像目前爆发的这么多的问题而且我真的慎重的说我们中央不应该推给给地方来做决定因为这种乱象我真的认为说应该是在因为全国国这个国土的计划当中呢只想把这个太阳光电纳入这个空间可是却以整个内能的发展定立这个计划的规则还有总量的管制我们目前为止地方政府真是完全无所适从你知道吗\n986765\t1004140\t我們三個原則第一個我們現在還是要多元開發綠能這個是其中一項第二個已經存在這個水面上的我們一定要環境部強力的去檢測水質一定要確保沒有問題第三個未來未來要做的如果我們對安全檢測對水質的維護沒有把握人力上做不到\n1004600\t1025059\t我们就不允许我还是强烈的希望院长你能够承诺跟经济部一起承诺我们中央未来在定立这些规则的时候你要纳入直辖现实的国土计划让地方有所运行然后要资讯一定要非常透明不要让我们没有拿不到资料这个问题而且要经过公民跟专家审议之后呢才作为一个政策的目标我觉得这部分是非常重要的\n1025299\t1054626\t我下面提供这几个建议我没有时间一一来去念但是有关于建立这些机制还有这些包括你要给我们一份很详细的这个极端天气应变还有包括你怎么样在这个灾前的这个预防性的降载还有包括拆除的SOP等等这些我都提供给相关单位我希望院长能够很清楚的看待因为我们台湾已经面临这个部分再怎么样一个能源政策既然是你们既定的目标你们又希望能够拓展光电光电又造成我们现在所看到的这么多的问题\n1055126\t1074726\t一個法定的一個SOP我覺得是目前為止彼此之間都可以得到最大的一個共識好好把它定好我覺得這個部分是非常重要的好不好謝謝兩位部長還有台灣再生能源我說實在的兩位部長可以先回座我們就要請經濟部長好不好我要問一下這個部分是\n1077313\t1105587\t這個海外再生能源的規劃我們都交給經濟部下面的綠推中心但是呢綠能的推手呢這個前副執行長這已經是過去新聞但是還是有很多後續的部分我還是要請教一下這個前副執行長鄭一寧因為貪污然後目前正在被押解當中綠推中心現在很多人認為變收賄中心當時的執行長就是我們現在的經濟部長龔明星我們的龔部長請問發生這麼大的狀況有誰為這件事情負起責任嗎\n1110125\t1138240\t跟委員報告因為這個案子它已經進入到司法程序我知道到司法程序可是但是我們內部還是有做一些調查了解然後呢那了解一下就是說到底這樣的一個案件為什麼會發生然後我們也了解就是說在整個綠推中心的執行這個綠綠政策的過程裡面你們現在都把它變成司法調查你們內部的行政調查什麼還是一句話院長我只要跟你抱抱怨一下要資料什麼都要不到\n1138840\t1164150\t真的要的资料都都会要不到然后呢我真的很怀疑前经济部长郭志辉说这个部分里面够咖啡我真的不晓得你们是因为他他没有讲出他导播你们叫他走人还是他知道还是怎么样因为呢这个部分就已经暴露出来的然后呢为什么掌握巨额的绿电投资要交给可以直达府方跟行政院长小英男孩我不能够理解经济部这么多的人才\n1164830\t1193801\t这么多的人才为什么交给他因为我们收到非常多的一些资料为什么要这样子因为呢一个不受监督最主要院长他是不受我们立法院监督的很多人为了要直通上面要透过他有非常多的这个细节我不晓得你们行政内部调查调查到什么程度我现在也没有看到我光是问他一个为什么一个这样子环境还不错的这样子大家培养的明日之星他为什么说会说我想最直接的方式我问到他他目前的薪资多少\n1194361\t1208258\t我也問不出來他說這是各自問題問題是院長的心思我知道啊部長的心思我也知道總統的心思我也知道立委的心思也知道這位完全不受掌控的綠推中心的心思問不出來你要不要現在告訴我\n1209648\t1234813\t跟我們報告那因為他資歷的這個薪資他是在各地方政府對不對相關的這個計畫裡面來來這個那是多少資用人力的這個薪資的費用連這個費用我都還看不到我只看得到什麼部分你106到140預推中心共編了5億4千萬而且業務費是逐年的降低的這麼多階段性的任務院長你認為不認為該\n1236893\t1263571\t結束了不受我們也不受旋轉門條款什麼都不受任何的監督一個幣案出來然後呢這裡面呢你看看太陽光電土地潰線協調離岸風電投資領選作業等等從頭到尾都是由他來主管而且你們太喜歡他了還把他當作是台智電的這樣的一個總經理然後呢另外一個台智電問題也出來了好不好你把這個綠色綠色中心我先問一下\n1264231\t1289618\t綠推中心先回到剛剛那邊你認為綠推中心是不是要裁撤回到我們經濟部這麼多人才你覺得是不是要裁撤綠推中心其實除了做政策規劃以外他也收集了很多的一些國際間推動綠能相關的一些資訊供我們政策參考那另外就是說所以你認為還是有存在嗎綠推中心還是有它存在\n1291098\t1316624\t行政调查如果没有给我们一个很满意的结果还有你的不断的在这样往下如果在发生这样的部分而且没有旋转门条款的一个限制太多东西都是我们没有办法看到的特别是我刚刚所提到的台制电的问题你看这一点有很大的争议你们对他真的非常的爱护你让他做台制电的总经理然后台制电请问像开发商买了多少电你知道目前为止台制电跟开发商买了多少电吗\n1317678\t1340446\t當初設定的目的多少?目前都正在洽談中即將有一些案子其實目前來說大概只有25%到30%剩下的東西都還是要由開發商自己去想辦法去找買家而且有雜誌特別提到了目前市場就傳出這不是他們還是有根據的目前市場就傳出台積電為了賺錢\n1342026\t1356016\t所以呢在千元買電的時候呢故意把價格壓低所以讓我們的開發商紛紛跳腳想退出然後呢有沒有這件事你們掌握的訊息有沒有這件事跟我們報告其實台智電他是扮演一個就是媒合這個\n1358398\t1382398\t這個開發商跟用電戶的這樣的一個角色那絕對不會說有價格壓低壓低價格的一個現象絕對不會有這個部分所以說你看有能力者把已經取得的這個建制風場的資格選擇離開這也是一個事實很多外商公司選擇離開他們最後是放棄我們台灣的市場那你們有沒有不知道你有沒有掌握多少開發商因此撤出台灣\n1383790\t1403881\t跟我們報告那開發商有一些是因為就是說整個這個在尋找國內這個供應鏈的這個過程可能在這個程序上他們可能會認為是要下多少測出來的嗎目前來講大概有幾件他就是已經\n1405643\t1418417\t跟我們這個合約已經解除了那你覺得這些外資撤除之後會不會對我們未來的這整個投資封地的意願因此就大幅的降低應該不會因為我們還會有第三三期的這個三至三的這個開發\n1420178\t1447767\t我只希望院長我今天提出這麼多的問題裡面人為的這個問題還有包括整個的這個開發商所反映出來給我們這些問題如果沒有辦法是徹底的解決的話他們就一個一個就分別走掉那走掉之後呢對於我們未來整個能源的部分裡面從我剛剛質詢的光電到目前為止的風電還有包括整個內部的問題如果沒有辦法從頭到尾給我們一個非常徹底的這樣子的一個非常親民公平公開的這樣一個方式這些問題\n1448667\t1473668\t還是沒有辦法做一個解決的持續開發綠能是政府的政策我們不會讓他從此中斷我們會跟開發商跟國內廠商再合力第二點剛剛您說的綠推中心我現在除了要求我們行政調查要清楚現起出來之後要求加強他的行政監督外部監督內部的這些控管都要強化起來我們才有辦法讓他不會再產生相同的弊病\n1474025\t1498670\t而且這裡面不受監督的單位當中院長你可能也要去徹查一下不受單位裡面蓋的這麼多鐵船交的這些單位裡面很多人的因素可能就會壞掉你們整個部分所以說一定要是特別是還是我強調不受監督的單位當中這些人的因素你一定要否則後面的未報單可能就會打垮很多行政團隊的一個專業好不好好\n1500810\t1520363\t接下來我還是要特別提到我們總統在國慶演說當中有非常多亮麗的數字我們提出這個部分裡面包括我們面對對等的關稅所以我想院長應該都非常的清楚我們出口的市場的貨品都是高度集中在資通跟電子零件\n1521724\t1551127\t是什么那其实很多的制造业到目前为止下滑而且还没有恢复我们目前有非常多无薪假特别是我们高雄的很多传产做了很多的努力但是大家也在挫泪因为不晓得未来到底是如何那我也知道目前都在谈判的阶段虽然这美国商业部长曾经提出的55要求已经被行政院给这个已经否认了认为说不会接受这样的一个条件那我再请问嘛因为目前为止马上就要揭露这些可能的一个数字\n1551607\t1557238\t如果他們提出四六分或三七分等等這樣的方式裡面我覺得行政院的底線到底在哪裡\n1558455\t1579755\t雙方還在進行最後的總決心會議之前有一些文書文件必須在做確認那目前為止我們還沒有對對方承諾到我們要做什麼對方也沒有承諾你們預估到底什麼時候這整個的數字等的方式可以明朗化我也希望能夠盡快讓所有的產業能夠安定下來我們都希望說十月份是一個好的時機是一個好的進展\n1582017\t1597583\t因為對方的政府現在也陷入一種幾乎半空轉的狀態也是在衡量很多的現實問題我們有所有的數字裡面出口都是衰退的但是大家就是在擔心我們到底除了這個數字之外不管是20 25這個數字之外\n1599744\t1617737\t到底台湾让利多少我还是要从这个院长的口中了解一下因为其实身为台美这个这个联谊会的会长其实有很多的时候就跟美国官方来做一些的会谈他们其实对于所谓的对外的贸易屏障的部分他们是非常在乎的啊然后呢我想请问这个院长\n1618157\t1634839\t很多的時候美國有當面在我們談判的過程裡面要求我們取消包括我們基改還有包括我們這些肉品有包括取消產地標示放寬基改進入校園這樣子的一個說法嗎目前為止有沒有這個我們當然是維持在我們這個\n1636352\t1650827\t國民健康的這個立場上我們不會去放鬆我們的立場雙方談判都有談到很多很多的案子但是我們堅持那四個原則國家利益 產業利益國人的健康以及糧食安全這四個部分我們不會放掉的\n1651229\t1679819\t所以目前來說的話有這麼多裡面提到我們校園裡面的實際的安全很多的時候大家就會很擔心因為這部分已經流傳非常多的我並沒有提到這麼實際上實際技的部分裡面不要忘記了川普跟習近平在十月底的時候在韓國裡面的這個部分裡面有會做一些的我們行政院這部分裡面有沒有做出任何的一個推演台灣目前的一個角色還有未來他們在會談之後我們至於對於我們未來的關稅會做出什麼樣的一個處理\n1680839\t1705797\t院長有沒有辦法在我們這個地方然後告訴我們因為現在已經十月只有兩個禮拜的時間了關稅還是希望能夠有合理的稅率同時不疊加同時對232再爭取更優惠的稅率這三項原則那我們現在提出一個台灣模式我想我也注意到了用企業自主去投資而且政府來做金融保證雙方政府之間美方政府跟我方之間用政府之間來做合作形成我們產業的聚落\n1706477\t1735704\t美方會在我們水電行政以及簽證各方面給我們很多的協助我覺得這是院長你所提出的一個美好的計畫到底最後的一個實際的狀況還有包括我們整個的產業鏈移過去裡面整個真正的指導著他們這些廠商到底目前的狀況是怎麼樣我們其實都還未定所以我覺得這是院長可以提出願景但是實際的操作我覺得還是困難光是台積電到我們鳳凰城去光是人力的這個部分裡面其實也面臨非常大的挑戰沒有人可以像我們台灣的人力可以在那邊\n1736244\t1764753\t受苦受難還可以這麼有阿信精神的不是每一個單位都可以像我們這樣子台灣最棒的台灣最棒的就是我們的人力啦所以我還是要提出來了這個部分裡面就是有關最後一個提出就是我們有關於我們人力的低薪問題院長你知道我們目前為止年輕人的低薪這個薪資低於3.1萬到底有多少人嗎120萬當中有多少人嗎3.1萬差不多是3.3萬多不好意思3萬多的最低低薪的目前年輕人當中有多少人你知道嗎\n1765293\t1780427\t我們在最近調整最低薪資的時候我們如果最低是調到29590的話會有170幾萬的人其實低薪的問題是歷屆總統都非常擔心的院長你看一下面臨的低薪的困境裡面全台低於3.1萬勞工的有120萬人年輕人就佔了100萬\n1785751\t1810444\t就占了100萬3.1萬這個是教他們怎麼生活然後就占了100萬所以我們用更多的家庭支持來降低他的負擔你覺得有辦法在這個過程當中這或許我只是提出這個數字我只告訴身為一個大學老師我的學生畢業之後然後他們都已經變成他們都還是年輕人可是他們家就在suffer這樣的一個薪水政府不管提出的租金補貼幹嘛還是一句話\n1811224\t1811244\t好謝謝\n","txt":"科委員好\n卓院长好在我们进入真正质询主题之前我先问一下韩国瑜院长在国庆大典的时候他的致辞然后遭到贵党的发言人的痛批一笑国际荒腔左板失态失格当时我记得你跟韩院长在握手的时候在他讲完握手的时候你还蛮合约的而且大家整个感觉都是还蛮祥和的没想到不久之后贵党就发动一连串的攻击我想请问卓院长\n你認為韓國瑜院長所提到台灣面臨的問題都不是事實嗎第一個我那天是跟韓院長說他的歌聲很好聽他講的事實他講的事實都不是事實他講的過程我認為我現在關心的不是隱形的晏賽湖是那個實際的晏賽湖還有我們還有在監視廂太崗廈的那所以說貴黨所發動的這一連串的攻擊你自己事先知不知情\n我當然不知道所以你們現在是黨政都分離就對了所以說秘書長也沒有特別秘書長現在已經不是匆匆容容他現在是慌慌張張的坐著一連串的攻擊但是安安穩穩的在做秘書長的工作所以說你都不知道這些事嗎\n黨部的發言系統我不知道我只是告訴這個院長你雖然不是黨主席可是為了大罷免完之後草野的和諧宰相肚子能撐船還是要為了和諧的部分這些所謂的攻擊我覺得大可不必更何況我認為韓院長所提出來這些的隱憂哪一個不是事實\n我們首先就來請教嘛台海這彼此之間的這個風險我們的總統公開就已經承諾在2030年的時候呢國防預算就要達到5%GDP的5%當然我知道那個時候你已經不是院長了啦應該不是了啦但是呢你認為達到GDP的5%台灣是否可以做到\n那個看我們的國防需要我們的需求在哪裡當然是需要需求看國家的財政能力如何所以說我就算給這個院長來聽我們來一看一下嘛如果照我們台灣這樣子每年的經濟成長大概是2.5%來看的話如果2030年我們有幸我們GDP達到的33.12兆台幣的話如果在5%來說的話那時候的我們的國防經費應該是佔1.52兆到1.6兆\n这是一个非常大的一个数字那我们当然就会比较关切我说国防自主我每次提到国防的问题我都要非常的小心很怕大家就会说你们在乱砍然后如何如何绝对不是我们从数字来说话那如果是这样子的话我会非常的担心我们一些教育我们的社福我们的医疗我们的民生会造成一些的排挤那如果要如何来做这个解决总统有跟你讨论过吗\n所以我說我們要衡量我們當時情況第一個國防的需求第二個政府的財政能力當然我們所有的這個社會福利已經支出去的現在的政策沒有辦法走回頭路的很多其實卓院長我現在就非常的擔心我們今天的國防還是創比以前更高你看我們的教育我們教育的經費好不好我要替我們的教育部長說一下話我們根本藍白都還沒有開始審的狀況之下你們就已經把它\n已經比過去少了200多億教育我們一直符合憲法的精神在編列但是你會告訴我就是裁判那部長你不用上來沒有問題啦我現在只是要算給我們的卓院長聽嘛你看蔡總統她在從2.1%到卸任的時候呢成長到2.5%我們的國防預算她8年才提高了0.4個百分點但是呢你如果要符合我們總統所提到的5%每年都要提高0.42%\n這是一個非常大的一個數字而且總統還特別提到打造我們台灣之盾我不管他是鐵窮或是金窮我們到底總預算是有多少到底這個總經費是多少他會是一個錢坑法案還是真的就是喊著爽的我現在是有點擔心了而且這個部分裡面我剛收到這個禮拜五國防部所送來的你們報告書裡面呢我沒有看到我們大家所關切的\n真的如果是对方发动了这个千百架的无人机攻击的时候我们的反制方法这么多的国防预算还有包括我们到底有没有办法有做到一些拦截等等之类的我们最新的这个部分里面我们看到五年的兵力整建的计划当中其实并没有提及那我当然要知道说当然部长也非常的努力嘛我们现在拼了大批的一个预算未来五年当中呢我们要见过超过五万家的无人机的战力没有错吧啊部长但是呢我们要问人手在哪\n因為我們人力的問題是一個非常大的問題你看我們現在看我們從110年我們每個來看講光是訓練這一些11年到現在到底完訓了多少人合格率到底多少目前流營的狀況到底是什麼我光是細節都不要去講這幾年我們作戰部隊人力已經不足都是公開的秘密了對不對部長你應該很清楚吧\n志願役的人力嚴重的損失明年大減兩年的兵旅而且一年減少了6784人兩年減少一萬多我想委員這樣的一個訊息是不正確的因為我們每年編的這個人員的維持費在過去要比\n這個預算的緣額數啊逼我們實際的緣額數要變得高那今年呢我們特別要求務實編列事實上不是實質上但是但是但是部長我們目前為止整個的待遇對於我們的招募的確是面臨非常大人力不足上面的問題你大部分的實際的兵員的編制比例都是不足80%\n这些都是老的问题然后呢我要特别提出来我们为了这些问题我们想尽所有的办法在野党想尽所有的办法我们对于所谓的薪资各方面的提高还有帮忙解决志愿欲的他们的待遇但是呢这是一个方法但是现在却用事先的方法把它卡住我只是提出我们有这么多的国防预算但是对于人力要能够留得住人的这个问题其实一些的方法可以比那么多的军费来说我们为啥不去思考一下这是一个很大的问题\n好了 沒關係 部長你還可以稍微留著我們今年已經增加了171億對國軍的待遇 今年我還是強調 大野黨三讀通過的部分裡面不用等到實現 那未來都會持續增加很多的方式是可以立即來做一些的解決的而且跟我們的國防預算 每年的預算比起來我們目前來說 這是一個可以解決的方法 思考一下而且呢 我們接下來再問一個\n有关于我们不但强调韧性但是能源的供应就好像我们的阿斯利斯建一样你看我们的天然气就是根据数据来的我们天然气储存11天这个源头还是我们的国防政策我们的能源的政策你看我们114年到116年大家可以看到分别的储量就是10.6 9.8 11.4\n而且呢法定的天数来说真的是都是不足然后呢我们的国防部长也说了为了要解决这个问题呢你说我们要提升油料的储存规划向中油采购32亿余元的油料来分散储存那我想请问部长这32应该问到院长了那这32亿的油料要放在什么地方\n你要如何支援發電我們是請中油來代囤所以呢它這樣可以做一個分散的囤儲所以我們當需要的時候到了每一個所在的地方的時候我們可以讓這些囤儲的這個油要存放在哪裡我們大家很關心要存放在哪裡它中油有各種各樣的一些分散囤儲的地方然後再利用這一個我們所需要的時機實施這個後勤補給到我們需要的作戰地境\n我觉得这个部分里面就是要放在什么地方可以维持多有但是非常的关切的好了部长你可以请回座接下来我问一下卓院长啊为了稳定这个电力部长国防部长目前为止OK了好稳定供应部分里面呢我们台电就不断在做这个整个建制这个燃气机组但是呢院长我们目前来说的话真的根据数据来说真的还是比预期落后\n而且還在施工規劃裡面測試的階段你看我們所落後的部分機組落後大概是一年到八年院長你有沒有看到而且為了趕工甚至把一些商轉都把它提前導致整個監工都會有一些的問題那你現在看一下台電的夜間備用的容量已經是連續三年沒有達到法定的標準法定標準是15%你看111年到113年分別的這個數字\n所以我們經濟部署預估未來我們還要AI我們還要算力我們還要等等這個部分然後你已經看到了我們114年即將發生的到116年我們這個夜間的備轉容量會降到8.5%10.8%還有8.5%這個幾乎是我們目標值的五成到六成\n夜間不是15% 報告委員 夜間沒有到15%就是我根據你們的數字不是 夜間真的是6% 大家現在都知道這個數字不是 我們說你們衛健降到8.5% 10.3%這是根據我們的數字我們也比較關切說 難道完全是不缺電嗎完全是不缺電嗎這是要提供院長你來做一些數據上面的參考接下來我還是要問光電的問題我們光電問題也是黏黏的這個真的是為了要加速這個再生能源\n我們其實從蔡政府開始就已經不斷地去蓋我們這個光電板然後呢說實在的我們一些的好山好水真的是有被破壞掉然後呢很多的亂象到目前為止都還是浮現了即使對於我們的生態的破壞真的是無庸置疑的啦然後呢颱風一來其實也是災難了我想這個部分大家都會看到\n然後最近當然包括我們大樹的這樣的光電平和公路的這個光電河山的光電案還有烏山頭水庫的這個光電當時因為時空背景的關係這個案場通過的時候都不需要來做環評\n那院長說實在的這麼多光電廠都沒有環評導致目前這樣一個狀況那個環境部長也來的是環境部目前在我們1月16號開始做修正對不對我先請問院長一下你知道環境部今年出修正的這個環評之後目前有多少的這個光電案場申請來送到我們環評院長你知道嗎\n這個要請部長來看書沒關係院長有多少環評有三件送過來不過因為他沒有完整我們有退回你看三件這麼嚴格的環評通過之後呢以前大家做大力的不斷的送件好不好因為不需要像你有一個設定之後呢這是第一次退回我們這個光電廠的環評嘛對不對就是有我們的寶樹寶堯寶龍三家在屏東的老皮農場三件那部長院長為什麼只有這三件\n你知道為什麼嗎報告委員我們有一定的標準有一定的規格那就表示其實它涵蓋就是兩個意義嘛一個意義就是過去實在太腐爛了嘛以前怎麼送就怎麼OK嘛然後呢大家趁不需要還平的時候全部送完了啦全部送完了那你這三間都被你們退貨表示什麼表示目前來申請的其實資格都不太符合啦所以才會造成我們現在其實是非常為難的不是嗎\n我們光電一定要有一定的面積還有一定的MW才會需要環評全世界都是一樣我們台灣算是比日本還要嚴格第二個我們台灣的光電目前所佔我們的土地的面積只佔了0.41%那台南比較高接近2%左右那我想請問一下我也曾經問過這個能源署到底我們掉到目前為止你知道有多少違法的光電開發的案場嗎目前有多少我給你們能源署掉\n有人可以回答這個部分嗎有多少違法開發的案場像大家都非常的關切我告訴你答案能說只有五件院長你相信只有五件嗎你相信只有五件嗎應該有更詳細的是應該有更詳細而且我不相信五件然後呢到目前為止還都不能告訴我具體的案場在哪裡我覺得立法委員要資料天經地義啊我們想了解所以問了老半天然後呢我們想了解整個狀況到底是如何問了老半天終於送來一個資料了好五件\n台南一個高雄一個嘉義澎湖兩界然後呢最重要是你被開罰都是100到200萬其他細節我都問不到光天的利益動不動就動則上億然後你開罰100到200我們要問地點我們要問細節我們要不到任何的資料你覺得這是我們名單應該是監督監督政府的角色跟責任嗎院長你覺得合理嗎\n請委員相信我們絕不容許光電變成一個非法集團在那邊謀取利益的那是不是起碼可以給我們更好的資料可不可以給我們更詳細的資料讓我們更能夠嚴格的監督要什麼資料 完全沒有經營部 能源署一定要把各地現在這個有疑問的地方我們一一的把它清查清楚\n而且好那我們就回到你剛說我們需要土地沒有錯能源水準所告訴我們是參考國際的一個標準在太陽光電的這個部分裡面的旗艦計畫你們說你們告訴我在2035年的時候呢要有35.02的GigaWatt當作目標請問35.2的這個GigaWatt是需要多少土地有沒有辦法算出來\n如果是照你們的國際標準的話參考國際標準2035年要35GW我告訴我們這樣推算過來比照的這樣推估至少土地需要4.4萬公頃比較好說法就是1692個大安森林公園\n我們有這麼多的土地嗎我們有這麼多的土地嗎而且呢經濟部有沒有去盤點我比較重視有沒有去盤點有沒有跟我們的內政部有沒有跟我們的農業部去討論過我們當然很希望能夠蓋在我們的屋頂這個地方但是你廢屋頂的部分我們需要這麼多的土地而且我們要犧牲4萬多公頃那我們台灣哪裡找到這麼大的土地面積我們的農業怎麼辦\n这些都需要大家共同来盘点可是我们目前没有看到只看到一个目标在那个地方其他都没有看到所以说呢我就说完全要以那这个能源署说要以公家的土地为优先好了公家土地就做一个叫做台糖啊就叫一个台糖啊\n所以說呢很多人就開始要談談這個台塘的這個土地我只是到目前為止沒有人可以直接回應這樣的部分所以說呢我只希望在我們規劃這些事情的時候呢真的要嗎你們告訴我2035要達到這樣的目標做不到不然就是吹牛不然你就告訴我土地在哪裡院長真的是非常重要\n那你找不到土地你就找到我们海边就找到我们这个制红池就找到我们的水库你看最近非常爆红的这个乌山头水库大的这个太阳板我现在想了解一下啊这么多的水库建制这个光电板当然很多人你们都已经做出很多的澄清对我们用水没有问题同意你们专家说什么我们就给我们一个好的一个方式我们不纠结在这个地方\n只是大家不断在讲那个时候的水库连水保法都不能开发为什么可以重点而且昨天我们的经济部长还有我们的陈俊进部长都在经济委员说不核准台南四座水库来开发那我想请问一下是只有台南的水库目前为止不准开发还是全台湾省都不准开发\n跟我們報告不論是屋頂型或是地面型我們當初都有盤整只是在過程當中我們會滾動式的檢討用什麼方式來做會比較順暢那現在我們開發除了地上之外我們現在往這個水面我早上也說過了院長我現在非常害怕滾動式你看那個環保這個環境部滾動式到檢討完畢之後送上來都不通過那之前的每個人就是猛送滾動式有時候是太慢了\n因为像目前爆发的这么多的问题而且我真的慎重的说我们中央不应该推给给地方来做决定因为这种乱象我真的认为说应该是在因为全国国这个国土的计划当中呢只想把这个太阳光电纳入这个空间可是却以整个内能的发展定立这个计划的规则还有总量的管制我们目前为止地方政府真是完全无所适从你知道吗\n我們三個原則第一個我們現在還是要多元開發綠能這個是其中一項第二個已經存在這個水面上的我們一定要環境部強力的去檢測水質一定要確保沒有問題第三個未來未來要做的如果我們對安全檢測對水質的維護沒有把握人力上做不到\n我们就不允许我还是强烈的希望院长你能够承诺跟经济部一起承诺我们中央未来在定立这些规则的时候你要纳入直辖现实的国土计划让地方有所运行然后要资讯一定要非常透明不要让我们没有拿不到资料这个问题而且要经过公民跟专家审议之后呢才作为一个政策的目标我觉得这部分是非常重要的\n我下面提供这几个建议我没有时间一一来去念但是有关于建立这些机制还有这些包括你要给我们一份很详细的这个极端天气应变还有包括你怎么样在这个灾前的这个预防性的降载还有包括拆除的SOP等等这些我都提供给相关单位我希望院长能够很清楚的看待因为我们台湾已经面临这个部分再怎么样一个能源政策既然是你们既定的目标你们又希望能够拓展光电光电又造成我们现在所看到的这么多的问题\n一個法定的一個SOP我覺得是目前為止彼此之間都可以得到最大的一個共識好好把它定好我覺得這個部分是非常重要的好不好謝謝兩位部長還有台灣再生能源我說實在的兩位部長可以先回座我們就要請經濟部長好不好我要問一下這個部分是\n這個海外再生能源的規劃我們都交給經濟部下面的綠推中心但是呢綠能的推手呢這個前副執行長這已經是過去新聞但是還是有很多後續的部分我還是要請教一下這個前副執行長鄭一寧因為貪污然後目前正在被押解當中綠推中心現在很多人認為變收賄中心當時的執行長就是我們現在的經濟部長龔明星我們的龔部長請問發生這麼大的狀況有誰為這件事情負起責任嗎\n跟委員報告因為這個案子它已經進入到司法程序我知道到司法程序可是但是我們內部還是有做一些調查了解然後呢那了解一下就是說到底這樣的一個案件為什麼會發生然後我們也了解就是說在整個綠推中心的執行這個綠綠政策的過程裡面你們現在都把它變成司法調查你們內部的行政調查什麼還是一句話院長我只要跟你抱抱怨一下要資料什麼都要不到\n真的要的资料都都会要不到然后呢我真的很怀疑前经济部长郭志辉说这个部分里面够咖啡我真的不晓得你们是因为他他没有讲出他导播你们叫他走人还是他知道还是怎么样因为呢这个部分就已经暴露出来的然后呢为什么掌握巨额的绿电投资要交给可以直达府方跟行政院长小英男孩我不能够理解经济部这么多的人才\n这么多的人才为什么交给他因为我们收到非常多的一些资料为什么要这样子因为呢一个不受监督最主要院长他是不受我们立法院监督的很多人为了要直通上面要透过他有非常多的这个细节我不晓得你们行政内部调查调查到什么程度我现在也没有看到我光是问他一个为什么一个这样子环境还不错的这样子大家培养的明日之星他为什么说会说我想最直接的方式我问到他他目前的薪资多少\n我也問不出來他說這是各自問題問題是院長的心思我知道啊部長的心思我也知道總統的心思我也知道立委的心思也知道這位完全不受掌控的綠推中心的心思問不出來你要不要現在告訴我\n跟我們報告那因為他資歷的這個薪資他是在各地方政府對不對相關的這個計畫裡面來來這個那是多少資用人力的這個薪資的費用連這個費用我都還看不到我只看得到什麼部分你106到140預推中心共編了5億4千萬而且業務費是逐年的降低的這麼多階段性的任務院長你認為不認為該\n結束了不受我們也不受旋轉門條款什麼都不受任何的監督一個幣案出來然後呢這裡面呢你看看太陽光電土地潰線協調離岸風電投資領選作業等等從頭到尾都是由他來主管而且你們太喜歡他了還把他當作是台智電的這樣的一個總經理然後呢另外一個台智電問題也出來了好不好你把這個綠色綠色中心我先問一下\n綠推中心先回到剛剛那邊你認為綠推中心是不是要裁撤回到我們經濟部這麼多人才你覺得是不是要裁撤綠推中心其實除了做政策規劃以外他也收集了很多的一些國際間推動綠能相關的一些資訊供我們政策參考那另外就是說所以你認為還是有存在嗎綠推中心還是有它存在\n行政调查如果没有给我们一个很满意的结果还有你的不断的在这样往下如果在发生这样的部分而且没有旋转门条款的一个限制太多东西都是我们没有办法看到的特别是我刚刚所提到的台制电的问题你看这一点有很大的争议你们对他真的非常的爱护你让他做台制电的总经理然后台制电请问像开发商买了多少电你知道目前为止台制电跟开发商买了多少电吗\n當初設定的目的多少?目前都正在洽談中即將有一些案子其實目前來說大概只有25%到30%剩下的東西都還是要由開發商自己去想辦法去找買家而且有雜誌特別提到了目前市場就傳出這不是他們還是有根據的目前市場就傳出台積電為了賺錢\n所以呢在千元買電的時候呢故意把價格壓低所以讓我們的開發商紛紛跳腳想退出然後呢有沒有這件事你們掌握的訊息有沒有這件事跟我們報告其實台智電他是扮演一個就是媒合這個\n這個開發商跟用電戶的這樣的一個角色那絕對不會說有價格壓低壓低價格的一個現象絕對不會有這個部分所以說你看有能力者把已經取得的這個建制風場的資格選擇離開這也是一個事實很多外商公司選擇離開他們最後是放棄我們台灣的市場那你們有沒有不知道你有沒有掌握多少開發商因此撤出台灣\n跟我們報告那開發商有一些是因為就是說整個這個在尋找國內這個供應鏈的這個過程可能在這個程序上他們可能會認為是要下多少測出來的嗎目前來講大概有幾件他就是已經\n跟我們這個合約已經解除了那你覺得這些外資撤除之後會不會對我們未來的這整個投資封地的意願因此就大幅的降低應該不會因為我們還會有第三三期的這個三至三的這個開發\n我只希望院長我今天提出這麼多的問題裡面人為的這個問題還有包括整個的這個開發商所反映出來給我們這些問題如果沒有辦法是徹底的解決的話他們就一個一個就分別走掉那走掉之後呢對於我們未來整個能源的部分裡面從我剛剛質詢的光電到目前為止的風電還有包括整個內部的問題如果沒有辦法從頭到尾給我們一個非常徹底的這樣子的一個非常親民公平公開的這樣一個方式這些問題\n還是沒有辦法做一個解決的持續開發綠能是政府的政策我們不會讓他從此中斷我們會跟開發商跟國內廠商再合力第二點剛剛您說的綠推中心我現在除了要求我們行政調查要清楚現起出來之後要求加強他的行政監督外部監督內部的這些控管都要強化起來我們才有辦法讓他不會再產生相同的弊病\n而且這裡面不受監督的單位當中院長你可能也要去徹查一下不受單位裡面蓋的這麼多鐵船交的這些單位裡面很多人的因素可能就會壞掉你們整個部分所以說一定要是特別是還是我強調不受監督的單位當中這些人的因素你一定要否則後面的未報單可能就會打垮很多行政團隊的一個專業好不好好\n接下來我還是要特別提到我們總統在國慶演說當中有非常多亮麗的數字我們提出這個部分裡面包括我們面對對等的關稅所以我想院長應該都非常的清楚我們出口的市場的貨品都是高度集中在資通跟電子零件\n是什么那其实很多的制造业到目前为止下滑而且还没有恢复我们目前有非常多无薪假特别是我们高雄的很多传产做了很多的努力但是大家也在挫泪因为不晓得未来到底是如何那我也知道目前都在谈判的阶段虽然这美国商业部长曾经提出的55要求已经被行政院给这个已经否认了认为说不会接受这样的一个条件那我再请问嘛因为目前为止马上就要揭露这些可能的一个数字\n如果他們提出四六分或三七分等等這樣的方式裡面我覺得行政院的底線到底在哪裡\n雙方還在進行最後的總決心會議之前有一些文書文件必須在做確認那目前為止我們還沒有對對方承諾到我們要做什麼對方也沒有承諾你們預估到底什麼時候這整個的數字等的方式可以明朗化我也希望能夠盡快讓所有的產業能夠安定下來我們都希望說十月份是一個好的時機是一個好的進展\n因為對方的政府現在也陷入一種幾乎半空轉的狀態也是在衡量很多的現實問題我們有所有的數字裡面出口都是衰退的但是大家就是在擔心我們到底除了這個數字之外不管是20 25這個數字之外\n到底台湾让利多少我还是要从这个院长的口中了解一下因为其实身为台美这个这个联谊会的会长其实有很多的时候就跟美国官方来做一些的会谈他们其实对于所谓的对外的贸易屏障的部分他们是非常在乎的啊然后呢我想请问这个院长\n很多的時候美國有當面在我們談判的過程裡面要求我們取消包括我們基改還有包括我們這些肉品有包括取消產地標示放寬基改進入校園這樣子的一個說法嗎目前為止有沒有這個我們當然是維持在我們這個\n國民健康的這個立場上我們不會去放鬆我們的立場雙方談判都有談到很多很多的案子但是我們堅持那四個原則國家利益 產業利益國人的健康以及糧食安全這四個部分我們不會放掉的\n所以目前來說的話有這麼多裡面提到我們校園裡面的實際的安全很多的時候大家就會很擔心因為這部分已經流傳非常多的我並沒有提到這麼實際上實際技的部分裡面不要忘記了川普跟習近平在十月底的時候在韓國裡面的這個部分裡面有會做一些的我們行政院這部分裡面有沒有做出任何的一個推演台灣目前的一個角色還有未來他們在會談之後我們至於對於我們未來的關稅會做出什麼樣的一個處理\n院長有沒有辦法在我們這個地方然後告訴我們因為現在已經十月只有兩個禮拜的時間了關稅還是希望能夠有合理的稅率同時不疊加同時對232再爭取更優惠的稅率這三項原則那我們現在提出一個台灣模式我想我也注意到了用企業自主去投資而且政府來做金融保證雙方政府之間美方政府跟我方之間用政府之間來做合作形成我們產業的聚落\n美方會在我們水電行政以及簽證各方面給我們很多的協助我覺得這是院長你所提出的一個美好的計畫到底最後的一個實際的狀況還有包括我們整個的產業鏈移過去裡面整個真正的指導著他們這些廠商到底目前的狀況是怎麼樣我們其實都還未定所以我覺得這是院長可以提出願景但是實際的操作我覺得還是困難光是台積電到我們鳳凰城去光是人力的這個部分裡面其實也面臨非常大的挑戰沒有人可以像我們台灣的人力可以在那邊\n受苦受難還可以這麼有阿信精神的不是每一個單位都可以像我們這樣子台灣最棒的台灣最棒的就是我們的人力啦所以我還是要提出來了這個部分裡面就是有關最後一個提出就是我們有關於我們人力的低薪問題院長你知道我們目前為止年輕人的低薪這個薪資低於3.1萬到底有多少人嗎120萬當中有多少人嗎3.1萬差不多是3.3萬多不好意思3萬多的最低低薪的目前年輕人當中有多少人你知道嗎\n我們在最近調整最低薪資的時候我們如果最低是調到29590的話會有170幾萬的人其實低薪的問題是歷屆總統都非常擔心的院長你看一下面臨的低薪的困境裡面全台低於3.1萬勞工的有120萬人年輕人就佔了100萬\n就占了100萬3.1萬這個是教他們怎麼生活然後就占了100萬所以我們用更多的家庭支持來降低他的負擔你覺得有辦法在這個過程當中這或許我只是提出這個數字我只告訴身為一個大學老師我的學生畢業之後然後他們都已經變成他們都還是年輕人可是他們家就在suffer這樣的一個薪水政府不管提出的租金補貼幹嘛還是一句話\n好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.945 --> 00:09.206\n科委員好\n\n00:22.199 --> 00:50.098\n卓院长好在我们进入真正质询主题之前我先问一下韩国瑜院长在国庆大典的时候他的致辞然后遭到贵党的发言人的痛批一笑国际荒腔左板失态失格当时我记得你跟韩院长在握手的时候在他讲完握手的时候你还蛮合约的而且大家整个感觉都是还蛮祥和的没想到不久之后贵党就发动一连串的攻击我想请问卓院长\n\n00:50.558 --> 01:14.403\n你認為韓國瑜院長所提到台灣面臨的問題都不是事實嗎第一個我那天是跟韓院長說他的歌聲很好聽他講的事實他講的事實都不是事實他講的過程我認為我現在關心的不是隱形的晏賽湖是那個實際的晏賽湖還有我們還有在監視廂太崗廈的那所以說貴黨所發動的這一連串的攻擊你自己事先知不知情\n\n01:15.353 --> 01:30.023\n我當然不知道所以你們現在是黨政都分離就對了所以說秘書長也沒有特別秘書長現在已經不是匆匆容容他現在是慌慌張張的坐著一連串的攻擊但是安安穩穩的在做秘書長的工作所以說你都不知道這些事嗎\n\n01:31.164 --> 01:50.084\n黨部的發言系統我不知道我只是告訴這個院長你雖然不是黨主席可是為了大罷免完之後草野的和諧宰相肚子能撐船還是要為了和諧的部分這些所謂的攻擊我覺得大可不必更何況我認為韓院長所提出來這些的隱憂哪一個不是事實\n\n01:50.745 --> 02:09.885\n我們首先就來請教嘛台海這彼此之間的這個風險我們的總統公開就已經承諾在2030年的時候呢國防預算就要達到5%GDP的5%當然我知道那個時候你已經不是院長了啦應該不是了啦但是呢你認為達到GDP的5%台灣是否可以做到\n\n02:10.578 --> 02:26.321\n那個看我們的國防需要我們的需求在哪裡當然是需要需求看國家的財政能力如何所以說我就算給這個院長來聽我們來一看一下嘛如果照我們台灣這樣子每年的經濟成長大概是2.5%來看的話如果2030年我們有幸我們GDP達到的33.12兆台幣的話如果在5%來說的話那時候的我們的國防經費應該是佔1.52兆到1.6兆\n\n02:38.004 --> 03:03.163\n这是一个非常大的一个数字那我们当然就会比较关切我说国防自主我每次提到国防的问题我都要非常的小心很怕大家就会说你们在乱砍然后如何如何绝对不是我们从数字来说话那如果是这样子的话我会非常的担心我们一些教育我们的社福我们的医疗我们的民生会造成一些的排挤那如果要如何来做这个解决总统有跟你讨论过吗\n\n03:03.809 --> 03:23.956\n所以我說我們要衡量我們當時情況第一個國防的需求第二個政府的財政能力當然我們所有的這個社會福利已經支出去的現在的政策沒有辦法走回頭路的很多其實卓院長我現在就非常的擔心我們今天的國防還是創比以前更高你看我們的教育我們教育的經費好不好我要替我們的教育部長說一下話我們根本藍白都還沒有開始審的狀況之下你們就已經把它\n\n03:26.917 --> 03:50.442\n已經比過去少了200多億教育我們一直符合憲法的精神在編列但是你會告訴我就是裁判那部長你不用上來沒有問題啦我現在只是要算給我們的卓院長聽嘛你看蔡總統她在從2.1%到卸任的時候呢成長到2.5%我們的國防預算她8年才提高了0.4個百分點但是呢你如果要符合我們總統所提到的5%每年都要提高0.42%\n\n03:52.962 --> 04:17.561\n這是一個非常大的一個數字而且總統還特別提到打造我們台灣之盾我不管他是鐵窮或是金窮我們到底總預算是有多少到底這個總經費是多少他會是一個錢坑法案還是真的就是喊著爽的我現在是有點擔心了而且這個部分裡面我剛收到這個禮拜五國防部所送來的你們報告書裡面呢我沒有看到我們大家所關切的\n\n04:17.981 --> 04:47.901\n真的如果是对方发动了这个千百架的无人机攻击的时候我们的反制方法这么多的国防预算还有包括我们到底有没有办法有做到一些拦截等等之类的我们最新的这个部分里面我们看到五年的兵力整建的计划当中其实并没有提及那我当然要知道说当然部长也非常的努力嘛我们现在拼了大批的一个预算未来五年当中呢我们要见过超过五万家的无人机的战力没有错吧啊部长但是呢我们要问人手在哪\n\n04:48.361 --> 05:09.873\n因為我們人力的問題是一個非常大的問題你看我們現在看我們從110年我們每個來看講光是訓練這一些11年到現在到底完訓了多少人合格率到底多少目前流營的狀況到底是什麼我光是細節都不要去講這幾年我們作戰部隊人力已經不足都是公開的秘密了對不對部長你應該很清楚吧\n\n05:10.293 --> 05:30.067\n志願役的人力嚴重的損失明年大減兩年的兵旅而且一年減少了6784人兩年減少一萬多我想委員這樣的一個訊息是不正確的因為我們每年編的這個人員的維持費在過去要比\n\n05:31.058 --> 05:53.375\n這個預算的緣額數啊逼我們實際的緣額數要變得高那今年呢我們特別要求務實編列事實上不是實質上但是但是但是部長我們目前為止整個的待遇對於我們的招募的確是面臨非常大人力不足上面的問題你大部分的實際的兵員的編制比例都是不足80%\n\n05:54.756 --> 06:24.396\n这些都是老的问题然后呢我要特别提出来我们为了这些问题我们想尽所有的办法在野党想尽所有的办法我们对于所谓的薪资各方面的提高还有帮忙解决志愿欲的他们的待遇但是呢这是一个方法但是现在却用事先的方法把它卡住我只是提出我们有这么多的国防预算但是对于人力要能够留得住人的这个问题其实一些的方法可以比那么多的军费来说我们为啥不去思考一下这是一个很大的问题\n\n06:24.816 --> 06:46.391\n好了沒關係部長你還可以稍微留著我們今年已經增加了171億對國軍的待遇今年我還是強調大野黨三讀通過的部分裡面不用等到實現那未來都會持續增加很多的方式是可以立即來做一些的解決的而且跟我們的國防預算每年的預算比起來我們目前來說這是一個可以解決的方法思考一下而且呢我們接下來再問一個\n\n06:47.372 --> 07:06.648\n有关于我们不但强调韧性但是能源的供应就好像我们的阿斯利斯建一样你看我们的天然气就是根据数据来的我们天然气储存11天这个源头还是我们的国防政策我们的能源的政策你看我们114年到116年大家可以看到分别的储量就是10.69.811.4\n\n07:09.170 --> 07:31.770\n而且呢法定的天数来说真的是都是不足然后呢我们的国防部长也说了为了要解决这个问题呢你说我们要提升油料的储存规划向中油采购32亿余元的油料来分散储存那我想请问部长这32应该问到院长了那这32亿的油料要放在什么地方\n\n07:32.366 --> 07:59.387\n你要如何支援發電我們是請中油來代囤所以呢它這樣可以做一個分散的囤儲所以我們當需要的時候到了每一個所在的地方的時候我們可以讓這些囤儲的這個油要存放在哪裡我們大家很關心要存放在哪裡它中油有各種各樣的一些分散囤儲的地方然後再利用這一個我們所需要的時機實施這個後勤補給到我們需要的作戰地境\n\n08:00.100 --> 08:22.672\n我觉得这个部分里面就是要放在什么地方可以维持多有但是非常的关切的好了部长你可以请回座接下来我问一下卓院长啊为了稳定这个电力部长国防部长目前为止OK了好稳定供应部分里面呢我们台电就不断在做这个整个建制这个燃气机组但是呢院长我们目前来说的话真的根据数据来说真的还是比预期落后\n\n08:23.092 --> 08:49.146\n而且還在施工規劃裡面測試的階段你看我們所落後的部分機組落後大概是一年到八年院長你有沒有看到而且為了趕工甚至把一些商轉都把它提前導致整個監工都會有一些的問題那你現在看一下台電的夜間備用的容量已經是連續三年沒有達到法定的標準法定標準是15%你看111年到113年分別的這個數字\n\n08:50.327 --> 09:00.139\n所以我們經濟部署預估未來我們還要AI我們還要算力我們還要等等這個部分然後你已經看到了我們114年即將發生的到116年我們這個夜間的備轉容量會降到8.5%10.8%還有8.5%這個幾乎是我們目標值的五成到六成\n\n09:09.691 --> 09:30.006\n夜間不是15%報告委員夜間沒有到15%就是我根據你們的數字不是夜間真的是6%大家現在都知道這個數字不是我們說你們衛健降到8.5%10.3%這是根據我們的數字我們也比較關切說難道完全是不缺電嗎完全是不缺電嗎這是要提供院長你來做一些數據上面的參考接下來我還是要問光電的問題我們光電問題也是黏黏的這個真的是為了要加速這個再生能源\n\n09:36.070 --> 09:56.400\n我們其實從蔡政府開始就已經不斷地去蓋我們這個光電板然後呢說實在的我們一些的好山好水真的是有被破壞掉然後呢很多的亂象到目前為止都還是浮現了即使對於我們的生態的破壞真的是無庸置疑的啦然後呢颱風一來其實也是災難了我想這個部分大家都會看到\n\n09:56.960 --> 10:10.919\n然後最近當然包括我們大樹的這樣的光電平和公路的這個光電河山的光電案還有烏山頭水庫的這個光電當時因為時空背景的關係這個案場通過的時候都不需要來做環評\n\n10:12.341 --> 10:34.563\n那院長說實在的這麼多光電廠都沒有環評導致目前這樣一個狀況那個環境部長也來的是環境部目前在我們1月16號開始做修正對不對我先請問院長一下你知道環境部今年出修正的這個環評之後目前有多少的這個光電案場申請來送到我們環評院長你知道嗎\n\n10:35.558 --> 11:03.651\n這個要請部長來看書沒關係院長有多少環評有三件送過來不過因為他沒有完整我們有退回你看三件這麼嚴格的環評通過之後呢以前大家做大力的不斷的送件好不好因為不需要像你有一個設定之後呢這是第一次退回我們這個光電廠的環評嘛對不對就是有我們的寶樹寶堯寶龍三家在屏東的老皮農場三件那部長院長為什麼只有這三件\n\n11:04.511 --> 11:28.856\n你知道為什麼嗎報告委員我們有一定的標準有一定的規格那就表示其實它涵蓋就是兩個意義嘛一個意義就是過去實在太腐爛了嘛以前怎麼送就怎麼OK嘛然後呢大家趁不需要還平的時候全部送完了啦全部送完了那你這三間都被你們退貨表示什麼表示目前來申請的其實資格都不太符合啦所以才會造成我們現在其實是非常為難的不是嗎\n\n11:31.211 --> 11:57.248\n我們光電一定要有一定的面積還有一定的MW才會需要環評全世界都是一樣我們台灣算是比日本還要嚴格第二個我們台灣的光電目前所佔我們的土地的面積只佔了0.41%那台南比較高接近2%左右那我想請問一下我也曾經問過這個能源署到底我們掉到目前為止你知道有多少違法的光電開發的案場嗎目前有多少我給你們能源署掉\n\n11:59.200 --> 12:27.643\n有人可以回答這個部分嗎有多少違法開發的案場像大家都非常的關切我告訴你答案能說只有五件院長你相信只有五件嗎你相信只有五件嗎應該有更詳細的是應該有更詳細而且我不相信五件然後呢到目前為止還都不能告訴我具體的案場在哪裡我覺得立法委員要資料天經地義啊我們想了解所以問了老半天然後呢我們想了解整個狀況到底是如何問了老半天終於送來一個資料了好五件\n\n12:28.323 --> 12:48.231\n台南一個高雄一個嘉義澎湖兩界然後呢最重要是你被開罰都是100到200萬其他細節我都問不到光天的利益動不動就動則上億然後你開罰100到200我們要問地點我們要問細節我們要不到任何的資料你覺得這是我們名單應該是監督監督政府的角色跟責任嗎院長你覺得合理嗎\n\n12:49.481 --> 13:07.815\n請委員相信我們絕不容許光電變成一個非法集團在那邊謀取利益的那是不是起碼可以給我們更好的資料可不可以給我們更詳細的資料讓我們更能夠嚴格的監督要什麼資料完全沒有經營部能源署一定要把各地現在這個有疑問的地方我們一一的把它清查清楚\n\n13:07.995 --> 13:28.930\n而且好那我們就回到你剛說我們需要土地沒有錯能源水準所告訴我們是參考國際的一個標準在太陽光電的這個部分裡面的旗艦計畫你們說你們告訴我在2035年的時候呢要有35.02的GigaWatt當作目標請問35.2的這個GigaWatt是需要多少土地有沒有辦法算出來\n\n13:29.878 --> 13:43.147\n如果是照你們的國際標準的話參考國際標準2035年要35GW我告訴我們這樣推算過來比照的這樣推估至少土地需要4.4萬公頃比較好說法就是1692個大安森林公園\n\n13:50.011 --> 14:10.720\n我們有這麼多的土地嗎我們有這麼多的土地嗎而且呢經濟部有沒有去盤點我比較重視有沒有去盤點有沒有跟我們的內政部有沒有跟我們的農業部去討論過我們當然很希望能夠蓋在我們的屋頂這個地方但是你廢屋頂的部分我們需要這麼多的土地而且我們要犧牲4萬多公頃那我們台灣哪裡找到這麼大的土地面積我們的農業怎麼辦\n\n14:12.501 --> 14:27.746\n这些都需要大家共同来盘点可是我们目前没有看到只看到一个目标在那个地方其他都没有看到所以说呢我就说完全要以那这个能源署说要以公家的土地为优先好了公家土地就做一个叫做台糖啊就叫一个台糖啊\n\n14:28.286 --> 14:49.361\n所以說呢很多人就開始要談談這個台塘的這個土地我只是到目前為止沒有人可以直接回應這樣的部分所以說呢我只希望在我們規劃這些事情的時候呢真的要嗎你們告訴我2035要達到這樣的目標做不到不然就是吹牛不然你就告訴我土地在哪裡院長真的是非常重要\n\n14:49.901 --> 15:13.099\n那你找不到土地你就找到我们海边就找到我们这个制红池就找到我们的水库你看最近非常爆红的这个乌山头水库大的这个太阳板我现在想了解一下啊这么多的水库建制这个光电板当然很多人你们都已经做出很多的澄清对我们用水没有问题同意你们专家说什么我们就给我们一个好的一个方式我们不纠结在这个地方\n\n15:13.519 --> 15:33.322\n只是大家不断在讲那个时候的水库连水保法都不能开发为什么可以重点而且昨天我们的经济部长还有我们的陈俊进部长都在经济委员说不核准台南四座水库来开发那我想请问一下是只有台南的水库目前为止不准开发还是全台湾省都不准开发\n\n15:34.383 --> 16:00.502\n跟我們報告不論是屋頂型或是地面型我們當初都有盤整只是在過程當中我們會滾動式的檢討用什麼方式來做會比較順暢那現在我們開發除了地上之外我們現在往這個水面我早上也說過了院長我現在非常害怕滾動式你看那個環保這個環境部滾動式到檢討完畢之後送上來都不通過那之前的每個人就是猛送滾動式有時候是太慢了\n\n16:00.902 --> 16:25.985\n因为像目前爆发的这么多的问题而且我真的慎重的说我们中央不应该推给给地方来做决定因为这种乱象我真的认为说应该是在因为全国国这个国土的计划当中呢只想把这个太阳光电纳入这个空间可是却以整个内能的发展定立这个计划的规则还有总量的管制我们目前为止地方政府真是完全无所适从你知道吗\n\n16:26.765 --> 16:44.140\n我們三個原則第一個我們現在還是要多元開發綠能這個是其中一項第二個已經存在這個水面上的我們一定要環境部強力的去檢測水質一定要確保沒有問題第三個未來未來要做的如果我們對安全檢測對水質的維護沒有把握人力上做不到\n\n16:44.600 --> 17:05.059\n我们就不允许我还是强烈的希望院长你能够承诺跟经济部一起承诺我们中央未来在定立这些规则的时候你要纳入直辖现实的国土计划让地方有所运行然后要资讯一定要非常透明不要让我们没有拿不到资料这个问题而且要经过公民跟专家审议之后呢才作为一个政策的目标我觉得这部分是非常重要的\n\n17:05.299 --> 17:34.626\n我下面提供这几个建议我没有时间一一来去念但是有关于建立这些机制还有这些包括你要给我们一份很详细的这个极端天气应变还有包括你怎么样在这个灾前的这个预防性的降载还有包括拆除的SOP等等这些我都提供给相关单位我希望院长能够很清楚的看待因为我们台湾已经面临这个部分再怎么样一个能源政策既然是你们既定的目标你们又希望能够拓展光电光电又造成我们现在所看到的这么多的问题\n\n17:35.126 --> 17:54.726\n一個法定的一個SOP我覺得是目前為止彼此之間都可以得到最大的一個共識好好把它定好我覺得這個部分是非常重要的好不好謝謝兩位部長還有台灣再生能源我說實在的兩位部長可以先回座我們就要請經濟部長好不好我要問一下這個部分是\n\n17:57.313 --> 18:25.587\n這個海外再生能源的規劃我們都交給經濟部下面的綠推中心但是呢綠能的推手呢這個前副執行長這已經是過去新聞但是還是有很多後續的部分我還是要請教一下這個前副執行長鄭一寧因為貪污然後目前正在被押解當中綠推中心現在很多人認為變收賄中心當時的執行長就是我們現在的經濟部長龔明星我們的龔部長請問發生這麼大的狀況有誰為這件事情負起責任嗎\n\n18:30.125 --> 18:58.240\n跟委員報告因為這個案子它已經進入到司法程序我知道到司法程序可是但是我們內部還是有做一些調查了解然後呢那了解一下就是說到底這樣的一個案件為什麼會發生然後我們也了解就是說在整個綠推中心的執行這個綠綠政策的過程裡面你們現在都把它變成司法調查你們內部的行政調查什麼還是一句話院長我只要跟你抱抱怨一下要資料什麼都要不到\n\n18:58.840 --> 19:24.150\n真的要的资料都都会要不到然后呢我真的很怀疑前经济部长郭志辉说这个部分里面够咖啡我真的不晓得你们是因为他他没有讲出他导播你们叫他走人还是他知道还是怎么样因为呢这个部分就已经暴露出来的然后呢为什么掌握巨额的绿电投资要交给可以直达府方跟行政院长小英男孩我不能够理解经济部这么多的人才\n\n19:24.830 --> 19:53.801\n这么多的人才为什么交给他因为我们收到非常多的一些资料为什么要这样子因为呢一个不受监督最主要院长他是不受我们立法院监督的很多人为了要直通上面要透过他有非常多的这个细节我不晓得你们行政内部调查调查到什么程度我现在也没有看到我光是问他一个为什么一个这样子环境还不错的这样子大家培养的明日之星他为什么说会说我想最直接的方式我问到他他目前的薪资多少\n\n19:54.361 --> 20:08.258\n我也問不出來他說這是各自問題問題是院長的心思我知道啊部長的心思我也知道總統的心思我也知道立委的心思也知道這位完全不受掌控的綠推中心的心思問不出來你要不要現在告訴我\n\n20:09.648 --> 20:34.813\n跟我們報告那因為他資歷的這個薪資他是在各地方政府對不對相關的這個計畫裡面來來這個那是多少資用人力的這個薪資的費用連這個費用我都還看不到我只看得到什麼部分你106到140預推中心共編了5億4千萬而且業務費是逐年的降低的這麼多階段性的任務院長你認為不認為該\n\n20:36.893 --> 21:03.571\n結束了不受我們也不受旋轉門條款什麼都不受任何的監督一個幣案出來然後呢這裡面呢你看看太陽光電土地潰線協調離岸風電投資領選作業等等從頭到尾都是由他來主管而且你們太喜歡他了還把他當作是台智電的這樣的一個總經理然後呢另外一個台智電問題也出來了好不好你把這個綠色綠色中心我先問一下\n\n21:04.231 --> 21:29.618\n綠推中心先回到剛剛那邊你認為綠推中心是不是要裁撤回到我們經濟部這麼多人才你覺得是不是要裁撤綠推中心其實除了做政策規劃以外他也收集了很多的一些國際間推動綠能相關的一些資訊供我們政策參考那另外就是說所以你認為還是有存在嗎綠推中心還是有它存在\n\n21:31.098 --> 21:56.624\n行政调查如果没有给我们一个很满意的结果还有你的不断的在这样往下如果在发生这样的部分而且没有旋转门条款的一个限制太多东西都是我们没有办法看到的特别是我刚刚所提到的台制电的问题你看这一点有很大的争议你们对他真的非常的爱护你让他做台制电的总经理然后台制电请问像开发商买了多少电你知道目前为止台制电跟开发商买了多少电吗\n\n21:57.678 --> 22:20.446\n當初設定的目的多少?目前都正在洽談中即將有一些案子其實目前來說大概只有25%到30%剩下的東西都還是要由開發商自己去想辦法去找買家而且有雜誌特別提到了目前市場就傳出這不是他們還是有根據的目前市場就傳出台積電為了賺錢\n\n22:22.026 --> 22:36.016\n所以呢在千元買電的時候呢故意把價格壓低所以讓我們的開發商紛紛跳腳想退出然後呢有沒有這件事你們掌握的訊息有沒有這件事跟我們報告其實台智電他是扮演一個就是媒合這個\n\n22:38.398 --> 23:02.398\n這個開發商跟用電戶的這樣的一個角色那絕對不會說有價格壓低壓低價格的一個現象絕對不會有這個部分所以說你看有能力者把已經取得的這個建制風場的資格選擇離開這也是一個事實很多外商公司選擇離開他們最後是放棄我們台灣的市場那你們有沒有不知道你有沒有掌握多少開發商因此撤出台灣\n\n23:03.790 --> 23:23.881\n跟我們報告那開發商有一些是因為就是說整個這個在尋找國內這個供應鏈的這個過程可能在這個程序上他們可能會認為是要下多少測出來的嗎目前來講大概有幾件他就是已經\n\n23:25.643 --> 23:38.417\n跟我們這個合約已經解除了那你覺得這些外資撤除之後會不會對我們未來的這整個投資封地的意願因此就大幅的降低應該不會因為我們還會有第三三期的這個三至三的這個開發\n\n23:40.178 --> 24:07.767\n我只希望院長我今天提出這麼多的問題裡面人為的這個問題還有包括整個的這個開發商所反映出來給我們這些問題如果沒有辦法是徹底的解決的話他們就一個一個就分別走掉那走掉之後呢對於我們未來整個能源的部分裡面從我剛剛質詢的光電到目前為止的風電還有包括整個內部的問題如果沒有辦法從頭到尾給我們一個非常徹底的這樣子的一個非常親民公平公開的這樣一個方式這些問題\n\n24:08.667 --> 24:33.668\n還是沒有辦法做一個解決的持續開發綠能是政府的政策我們不會讓他從此中斷我們會跟開發商跟國內廠商再合力第二點剛剛您說的綠推中心我現在除了要求我們行政調查要清楚現起出來之後要求加強他的行政監督外部監督內部的這些控管都要強化起來我們才有辦法讓他不會再產生相同的弊病\n\n24:34.025 --> 24:58.670\n而且這裡面不受監督的單位當中院長你可能也要去徹查一下不受單位裡面蓋的這麼多鐵船交的這些單位裡面很多人的因素可能就會壞掉你們整個部分所以說一定要是特別是還是我強調不受監督的單位當中這些人的因素你一定要否則後面的未報單可能就會打垮很多行政團隊的一個專業好不好好\n\n25:00.810 --> 25:20.363\n接下來我還是要特別提到我們總統在國慶演說當中有非常多亮麗的數字我們提出這個部分裡面包括我們面對對等的關稅所以我想院長應該都非常的清楚我們出口的市場的貨品都是高度集中在資通跟電子零件\n\n25:21.724 --> 25:51.127\n是什么那其实很多的制造业到目前为止下滑而且还没有恢复我们目前有非常多无薪假特别是我们高雄的很多传产做了很多的努力但是大家也在挫泪因为不晓得未来到底是如何那我也知道目前都在谈判的阶段虽然这美国商业部长曾经提出的55要求已经被行政院给这个已经否认了认为说不会接受这样的一个条件那我再请问嘛因为目前为止马上就要揭露这些可能的一个数字\n\n25:51.607 --> 25:57.238\n如果他們提出四六分或三七分等等這樣的方式裡面我覺得行政院的底線到底在哪裡\n\n25:58.455 --> 26:19.755\n雙方還在進行最後的總決心會議之前有一些文書文件必須在做確認那目前為止我們還沒有對對方承諾到我們要做什麼對方也沒有承諾你們預估到底什麼時候這整個的數字等的方式可以明朗化我也希望能夠盡快讓所有的產業能夠安定下來我們都希望說十月份是一個好的時機是一個好的進展\n\n26:22.017 --> 26:37.583\n因為對方的政府現在也陷入一種幾乎半空轉的狀態也是在衡量很多的現實問題我們有所有的數字裡面出口都是衰退的但是大家就是在擔心我們到底除了這個數字之外不管是2025這個數字之外\n\n26:39.744 --> 26:57.737\n到底台湾让利多少我还是要从这个院长的口中了解一下因为其实身为台美这个这个联谊会的会长其实有很多的时候就跟美国官方来做一些的会谈他们其实对于所谓的对外的贸易屏障的部分他们是非常在乎的啊然后呢我想请问这个院长\n\n26:58.157 --> 27:14.839\n很多的時候美國有當面在我們談判的過程裡面要求我們取消包括我們基改還有包括我們這些肉品有包括取消產地標示放寬基改進入校園這樣子的一個說法嗎目前為止有沒有這個我們當然是維持在我們這個\n\n27:16.352 --> 27:30.827\n國民健康的這個立場上我們不會去放鬆我們的立場雙方談判都有談到很多很多的案子但是我們堅持那四個原則國家利益產業利益國人的健康以及糧食安全這四個部分我們不會放掉的\n\n27:31.229 --> 27:59.819\n所以目前來說的話有這麼多裡面提到我們校園裡面的實際的安全很多的時候大家就會很擔心因為這部分已經流傳非常多的我並沒有提到這麼實際上實際技的部分裡面不要忘記了川普跟習近平在十月底的時候在韓國裡面的這個部分裡面有會做一些的我們行政院這部分裡面有沒有做出任何的一個推演台灣目前的一個角色還有未來他們在會談之後我們至於對於我們未來的關稅會做出什麼樣的一個處理\n\n28:00.839 --> 28:25.797\n院長有沒有辦法在我們這個地方然後告訴我們因為現在已經十月只有兩個禮拜的時間了關稅還是希望能夠有合理的稅率同時不疊加同時對232再爭取更優惠的稅率這三項原則那我們現在提出一個台灣模式我想我也注意到了用企業自主去投資而且政府來做金融保證雙方政府之間美方政府跟我方之間用政府之間來做合作形成我們產業的聚落\n\n28:26.477 --> 28:55.704\n美方會在我們水電行政以及簽證各方面給我們很多的協助我覺得這是院長你所提出的一個美好的計畫到底最後的一個實際的狀況還有包括我們整個的產業鏈移過去裡面整個真正的指導著他們這些廠商到底目前的狀況是怎麼樣我們其實都還未定所以我覺得這是院長可以提出願景但是實際的操作我覺得還是困難光是台積電到我們鳳凰城去光是人力的這個部分裡面其實也面臨非常大的挑戰沒有人可以像我們台灣的人力可以在那邊\n\n28:56.244 --> 29:24.753\n受苦受難還可以這麼有阿信精神的不是每一個單位都可以像我們這樣子台灣最棒的台灣最棒的就是我們的人力啦所以我還是要提出來了這個部分裡面就是有關最後一個提出就是我們有關於我們人力的低薪問題院長你知道我們目前為止年輕人的低薪這個薪資低於3.1萬到底有多少人嗎120萬當中有多少人嗎3.1萬差不多是3.3萬多不好意思3萬多的最低低薪的目前年輕人當中有多少人你知道嗎\n\n29:25.293 --> 29:40.427\n我們在最近調整最低薪資的時候我們如果最低是調到29590的話會有170幾萬的人其實低薪的問題是歷屆總統都非常擔心的院長你看一下面臨的低薪的困境裡面全台低於3.1萬勞工的有120萬人年輕人就佔了100萬\n\n29:45.751 --> 30:10.444\n就占了100萬3.1萬這個是教他們怎麼生活然後就占了100萬所以我們用更多的家庭支持來降低他的負擔你覺得有辦法在這個過程當中這或許我只是提出這個數字我只告訴身為一個大學老師我的學生畢業之後然後他們都已經變成他們都還是年輕人可是他們家就在suffer這樣的一個薪水政府不管提出的租金補貼幹嘛還是一句話\n\n30:11.224 --> 30:11.244\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.945,"end":9.206,"text":"科委員好"},{"start":22.199,"end":50.098,"text":"卓院长好在我们进入真正质询主题之前我先问一下韩国瑜院长在国庆大典的时候他的致辞然后遭到贵党的发言人的痛批一笑国际荒腔左板失态失格当时我记得你跟韩院长在握手的时候在他讲完握手的时候你还蛮合约的而且大家整个感觉都是还蛮祥和的没想到不久之后贵党就发动一连串的攻击我想请问卓院长"},{"start":50.558,"end":74.403,"text":"你認為韓國瑜院長所提到台灣面臨的問題都不是事實嗎第一個我那天是跟韓院長說他的歌聲很好聽他講的事實他講的事實都不是事實他講的過程我認為我現在關心的不是隱形的晏賽湖是那個實際的晏賽湖還有我們還有在監視廂太崗廈的那所以說貴黨所發動的這一連串的攻擊你自己事先知不知情"},{"start":75.353,"end":90.023,"text":"我當然不知道所以你們現在是黨政都分離就對了所以說秘書長也沒有特別秘書長現在已經不是匆匆容容他現在是慌慌張張的坐著一連串的攻擊但是安安穩穩的在做秘書長的工作所以說你都不知道這些事嗎"},{"start":91.164,"end":110.084,"text":"黨部的發言系統我不知道我只是告訴這個院長你雖然不是黨主席可是為了大罷免完之後草野的和諧宰相肚子能撐船還是要為了和諧的部分這些所謂的攻擊我覺得大可不必更何況我認為韓院長所提出來這些的隱憂哪一個不是事實"},{"start":110.745,"end":129.885,"text":"我們首先就來請教嘛台海這彼此之間的這個風險我們的總統公開就已經承諾在2030年的時候呢國防預算就要達到5%GDP的5%當然我知道那個時候你已經不是院長了啦應該不是了啦但是呢你認為達到GDP的5%台灣是否可以做到"},{"start":130.578,"end":146.321,"text":"那個看我們的國防需要我們的需求在哪裡當然是需要需求看國家的財政能力如何所以說我就算給這個院長來聽我們來一看一下嘛如果照我們台灣這樣子每年的經濟成長大概是2.5%來看的話如果2030年我們有幸我們GDP達到的33.12兆台幣的話如果在5%來說的話那時候的我們的國防經費應該是佔1.52兆到1.6兆"},{"start":158.004,"end":183.163,"text":"这是一个非常大的一个数字那我们当然就会比较关切我说国防自主我每次提到国防的问题我都要非常的小心很怕大家就会说你们在乱砍然后如何如何绝对不是我们从数字来说话那如果是这样子的话我会非常的担心我们一些教育我们的社福我们的医疗我们的民生会造成一些的排挤那如果要如何来做这个解决总统有跟你讨论过吗"},{"start":183.809,"end":203.956,"text":"所以我說我們要衡量我們當時情況第一個國防的需求第二個政府的財政能力當然我們所有的這個社會福利已經支出去的現在的政策沒有辦法走回頭路的很多其實卓院長我現在就非常的擔心我們今天的國防還是創比以前更高你看我們的教育我們教育的經費好不好我要替我們的教育部長說一下話我們根本藍白都還沒有開始審的狀況之下你們就已經把它"},{"start":206.917,"end":230.442,"text":"已經比過去少了200多億教育我們一直符合憲法的精神在編列但是你會告訴我就是裁判那部長你不用上來沒有問題啦我現在只是要算給我們的卓院長聽嘛你看蔡總統她在從2.1%到卸任的時候呢成長到2.5%我們的國防預算她8年才提高了0.4個百分點但是呢你如果要符合我們總統所提到的5%每年都要提高0.42%"},{"start":232.962,"end":257.561,"text":"這是一個非常大的一個數字而且總統還特別提到打造我們台灣之盾我不管他是鐵窮或是金窮我們到底總預算是有多少到底這個總經費是多少他會是一個錢坑法案還是真的就是喊著爽的我現在是有點擔心了而且這個部分裡面我剛收到這個禮拜五國防部所送來的你們報告書裡面呢我沒有看到我們大家所關切的"},{"start":257.981,"end":287.901,"text":"真的如果是对方发动了这个千百架的无人机攻击的时候我们的反制方法这么多的国防预算还有包括我们到底有没有办法有做到一些拦截等等之类的我们最新的这个部分里面我们看到五年的兵力整建的计划当中其实并没有提及那我当然要知道说当然部长也非常的努力嘛我们现在拼了大批的一个预算未来五年当中呢我们要见过超过五万家的无人机的战力没有错吧啊部长但是呢我们要问人手在哪"},{"start":288.361,"end":309.873,"text":"因為我們人力的問題是一個非常大的問題你看我們現在看我們從110年我們每個來看講光是訓練這一些11年到現在到底完訓了多少人合格率到底多少目前流營的狀況到底是什麼我光是細節都不要去講這幾年我們作戰部隊人力已經不足都是公開的秘密了對不對部長你應該很清楚吧"},{"start":310.293,"end":330.067,"text":"志願役的人力嚴重的損失明年大減兩年的兵旅而且一年減少了6784人兩年減少一萬多我想委員這樣的一個訊息是不正確的因為我們每年編的這個人員的維持費在過去要比"},{"start":331.058,"end":353.375,"text":"這個預算的緣額數啊逼我們實際的緣額數要變得高那今年呢我們特別要求務實編列事實上不是實質上但是但是但是部長我們目前為止整個的待遇對於我們的招募的確是面臨非常大人力不足上面的問題你大部分的實際的兵員的編制比例都是不足80%"},{"start":354.756,"end":384.396,"text":"这些都是老的问题然后呢我要特别提出来我们为了这些问题我们想尽所有的办法在野党想尽所有的办法我们对于所谓的薪资各方面的提高还有帮忙解决志愿欲的他们的待遇但是呢这是一个方法但是现在却用事先的方法把它卡住我只是提出我们有这么多的国防预算但是对于人力要能够留得住人的这个问题其实一些的方法可以比那么多的军费来说我们为啥不去思考一下这是一个很大的问题"},{"start":384.816,"end":406.391,"text":"好了 沒關係 部長你還可以稍微留著我們今年已經增加了171億對國軍的待遇 今年我還是強調 大野黨三讀通過的部分裡面不用等到實現 那未來都會持續增加很多的方式是可以立即來做一些的解決的而且跟我們的國防預算 每年的預算比起來我們目前來說 這是一個可以解決的方法 思考一下而且呢 我們接下來再問一個"},{"start":407.372,"end":426.648,"text":"有关于我们不但强调韧性但是能源的供应就好像我们的阿斯利斯建一样你看我们的天然气就是根据数据来的我们天然气储存11天这个源头还是我们的国防政策我们的能源的政策你看我们114年到116年大家可以看到分别的储量就是10.6 9.8 11.4"},{"start":429.17,"end":451.77,"text":"而且呢法定的天数来说真的是都是不足然后呢我们的国防部长也说了为了要解决这个问题呢你说我们要提升油料的储存规划向中油采购32亿余元的油料来分散储存那我想请问部长这32应该问到院长了那这32亿的油料要放在什么地方"},{"start":452.366,"end":479.387,"text":"你要如何支援發電我們是請中油來代囤所以呢它這樣可以做一個分散的囤儲所以我們當需要的時候到了每一個所在的地方的時候我們可以讓這些囤儲的這個油要存放在哪裡我們大家很關心要存放在哪裡它中油有各種各樣的一些分散囤儲的地方然後再利用這一個我們所需要的時機實施這個後勤補給到我們需要的作戰地境"},{"start":480.1,"end":502.672,"text":"我觉得这个部分里面就是要放在什么地方可以维持多有但是非常的关切的好了部长你可以请回座接下来我问一下卓院长啊为了稳定这个电力部长国防部长目前为止OK了好稳定供应部分里面呢我们台电就不断在做这个整个建制这个燃气机组但是呢院长我们目前来说的话真的根据数据来说真的还是比预期落后"},{"start":503.092,"end":529.146,"text":"而且還在施工規劃裡面測試的階段你看我們所落後的部分機組落後大概是一年到八年院長你有沒有看到而且為了趕工甚至把一些商轉都把它提前導致整個監工都會有一些的問題那你現在看一下台電的夜間備用的容量已經是連續三年沒有達到法定的標準法定標準是15%你看111年到113年分別的這個數字"},{"start":530.327,"end":540.139,"text":"所以我們經濟部署預估未來我們還要AI我們還要算力我們還要等等這個部分然後你已經看到了我們114年即將發生的到116年我們這個夜間的備轉容量會降到8.5%10.8%還有8.5%這個幾乎是我們目標值的五成到六成"},{"start":549.691,"end":570.006,"text":"夜間不是15% 報告委員 夜間沒有到15%就是我根據你們的數字不是 夜間真的是6% 大家現在都知道這個數字不是 我們說你們衛健降到8.5% 10.3%這是根據我們的數字我們也比較關切說 難道完全是不缺電嗎完全是不缺電嗎這是要提供院長你來做一些數據上面的參考接下來我還是要問光電的問題我們光電問題也是黏黏的這個真的是為了要加速這個再生能源"},{"start":576.07,"end":596.4,"text":"我們其實從蔡政府開始就已經不斷地去蓋我們這個光電板然後呢說實在的我們一些的好山好水真的是有被破壞掉然後呢很多的亂象到目前為止都還是浮現了即使對於我們的生態的破壞真的是無庸置疑的啦然後呢颱風一來其實也是災難了我想這個部分大家都會看到"},{"start":596.96,"end":610.919,"text":"然後最近當然包括我們大樹的這樣的光電平和公路的這個光電河山的光電案還有烏山頭水庫的這個光電當時因為時空背景的關係這個案場通過的時候都不需要來做環評"},{"start":612.341,"end":634.563,"text":"那院長說實在的這麼多光電廠都沒有環評導致目前這樣一個狀況那個環境部長也來的是環境部目前在我們1月16號開始做修正對不對我先請問院長一下你知道環境部今年出修正的這個環評之後目前有多少的這個光電案場申請來送到我們環評院長你知道嗎"},{"start":635.558,"end":663.651,"text":"這個要請部長來看書沒關係院長有多少環評有三件送過來不過因為他沒有完整我們有退回你看三件這麼嚴格的環評通過之後呢以前大家做大力的不斷的送件好不好因為不需要像你有一個設定之後呢這是第一次退回我們這個光電廠的環評嘛對不對就是有我們的寶樹寶堯寶龍三家在屏東的老皮農場三件那部長院長為什麼只有這三件"},{"start":664.511,"end":688.856,"text":"你知道為什麼嗎報告委員我們有一定的標準有一定的規格那就表示其實它涵蓋就是兩個意義嘛一個意義就是過去實在太腐爛了嘛以前怎麼送就怎麼OK嘛然後呢大家趁不需要還平的時候全部送完了啦全部送完了那你這三間都被你們退貨表示什麼表示目前來申請的其實資格都不太符合啦所以才會造成我們現在其實是非常為難的不是嗎"},{"start":691.211,"end":717.248,"text":"我們光電一定要有一定的面積還有一定的MW才會需要環評全世界都是一樣我們台灣算是比日本還要嚴格第二個我們台灣的光電目前所佔我們的土地的面積只佔了0.41%那台南比較高接近2%左右那我想請問一下我也曾經問過這個能源署到底我們掉到目前為止你知道有多少違法的光電開發的案場嗎目前有多少我給你們能源署掉"},{"start":719.2,"end":747.643,"text":"有人可以回答這個部分嗎有多少違法開發的案場像大家都非常的關切我告訴你答案能說只有五件院長你相信只有五件嗎你相信只有五件嗎應該有更詳細的是應該有更詳細而且我不相信五件然後呢到目前為止還都不能告訴我具體的案場在哪裡我覺得立法委員要資料天經地義啊我們想了解所以問了老半天然後呢我們想了解整個狀況到底是如何問了老半天終於送來一個資料了好五件"},{"start":748.323,"end":768.231,"text":"台南一個高雄一個嘉義澎湖兩界然後呢最重要是你被開罰都是100到200萬其他細節我都問不到光天的利益動不動就動則上億然後你開罰100到200我們要問地點我們要問細節我們要不到任何的資料你覺得這是我們名單應該是監督監督政府的角色跟責任嗎院長你覺得合理嗎"},{"start":769.481,"end":787.815,"text":"請委員相信我們絕不容許光電變成一個非法集團在那邊謀取利益的那是不是起碼可以給我們更好的資料可不可以給我們更詳細的資料讓我們更能夠嚴格的監督要什麼資料 完全沒有經營部 能源署一定要把各地現在這個有疑問的地方我們一一的把它清查清楚"},{"start":787.995,"end":808.93,"text":"而且好那我們就回到你剛說我們需要土地沒有錯能源水準所告訴我們是參考國際的一個標準在太陽光電的這個部分裡面的旗艦計畫你們說你們告訴我在2035年的時候呢要有35.02的GigaWatt當作目標請問35.2的這個GigaWatt是需要多少土地有沒有辦法算出來"},{"start":809.878,"end":823.147,"text":"如果是照你們的國際標準的話參考國際標準2035年要35GW我告訴我們這樣推算過來比照的這樣推估至少土地需要4.4萬公頃比較好說法就是1692個大安森林公園"},{"start":830.011,"end":850.72,"text":"我們有這麼多的土地嗎我們有這麼多的土地嗎而且呢經濟部有沒有去盤點我比較重視有沒有去盤點有沒有跟我們的內政部有沒有跟我們的農業部去討論過我們當然很希望能夠蓋在我們的屋頂這個地方但是你廢屋頂的部分我們需要這麼多的土地而且我們要犧牲4萬多公頃那我們台灣哪裡找到這麼大的土地面積我們的農業怎麼辦"},{"start":852.501,"end":867.746,"text":"这些都需要大家共同来盘点可是我们目前没有看到只看到一个目标在那个地方其他都没有看到所以说呢我就说完全要以那这个能源署说要以公家的土地为优先好了公家土地就做一个叫做台糖啊就叫一个台糖啊"},{"start":868.286,"end":889.361,"text":"所以說呢很多人就開始要談談這個台塘的這個土地我只是到目前為止沒有人可以直接回應這樣的部分所以說呢我只希望在我們規劃這些事情的時候呢真的要嗎你們告訴我2035要達到這樣的目標做不到不然就是吹牛不然你就告訴我土地在哪裡院長真的是非常重要"},{"start":889.901,"end":913.099,"text":"那你找不到土地你就找到我们海边就找到我们这个制红池就找到我们的水库你看最近非常爆红的这个乌山头水库大的这个太阳板我现在想了解一下啊这么多的水库建制这个光电板当然很多人你们都已经做出很多的澄清对我们用水没有问题同意你们专家说什么我们就给我们一个好的一个方式我们不纠结在这个地方"},{"start":913.519,"end":933.322,"text":"只是大家不断在讲那个时候的水库连水保法都不能开发为什么可以重点而且昨天我们的经济部长还有我们的陈俊进部长都在经济委员说不核准台南四座水库来开发那我想请问一下是只有台南的水库目前为止不准开发还是全台湾省都不准开发"},{"start":934.383,"end":960.502,"text":"跟我們報告不論是屋頂型或是地面型我們當初都有盤整只是在過程當中我們會滾動式的檢討用什麼方式來做會比較順暢那現在我們開發除了地上之外我們現在往這個水面我早上也說過了院長我現在非常害怕滾動式你看那個環保這個環境部滾動式到檢討完畢之後送上來都不通過那之前的每個人就是猛送滾動式有時候是太慢了"},{"start":960.902,"end":985.985,"text":"因为像目前爆发的这么多的问题而且我真的慎重的说我们中央不应该推给给地方来做决定因为这种乱象我真的认为说应该是在因为全国国这个国土的计划当中呢只想把这个太阳光电纳入这个空间可是却以整个内能的发展定立这个计划的规则还有总量的管制我们目前为止地方政府真是完全无所适从你知道吗"},{"start":986.765,"end":1004.14,"text":"我們三個原則第一個我們現在還是要多元開發綠能這個是其中一項第二個已經存在這個水面上的我們一定要環境部強力的去檢測水質一定要確保沒有問題第三個未來未來要做的如果我們對安全檢測對水質的維護沒有把握人力上做不到"},{"start":1004.6,"end":1025.059,"text":"我们就不允许我还是强烈的希望院长你能够承诺跟经济部一起承诺我们中央未来在定立这些规则的时候你要纳入直辖现实的国土计划让地方有所运行然后要资讯一定要非常透明不要让我们没有拿不到资料这个问题而且要经过公民跟专家审议之后呢才作为一个政策的目标我觉得这部分是非常重要的"},{"start":1025.299,"end":1054.626,"text":"我下面提供这几个建议我没有时间一一来去念但是有关于建立这些机制还有这些包括你要给我们一份很详细的这个极端天气应变还有包括你怎么样在这个灾前的这个预防性的降载还有包括拆除的SOP等等这些我都提供给相关单位我希望院长能够很清楚的看待因为我们台湾已经面临这个部分再怎么样一个能源政策既然是你们既定的目标你们又希望能够拓展光电光电又造成我们现在所看到的这么多的问题"},{"start":1055.126,"end":1074.726,"text":"一個法定的一個SOP我覺得是目前為止彼此之間都可以得到最大的一個共識好好把它定好我覺得這個部分是非常重要的好不好謝謝兩位部長還有台灣再生能源我說實在的兩位部長可以先回座我們就要請經濟部長好不好我要問一下這個部分是"},{"start":1077.313,"end":1105.587,"text":"這個海外再生能源的規劃我們都交給經濟部下面的綠推中心但是呢綠能的推手呢這個前副執行長這已經是過去新聞但是還是有很多後續的部分我還是要請教一下這個前副執行長鄭一寧因為貪污然後目前正在被押解當中綠推中心現在很多人認為變收賄中心當時的執行長就是我們現在的經濟部長龔明星我們的龔部長請問發生這麼大的狀況有誰為這件事情負起責任嗎"},{"start":1110.125,"end":1138.24,"text":"跟委員報告因為這個案子它已經進入到司法程序我知道到司法程序可是但是我們內部還是有做一些調查了解然後呢那了解一下就是說到底這樣的一個案件為什麼會發生然後我們也了解就是說在整個綠推中心的執行這個綠綠政策的過程裡面你們現在都把它變成司法調查你們內部的行政調查什麼還是一句話院長我只要跟你抱抱怨一下要資料什麼都要不到"},{"start":1138.84,"end":1164.15,"text":"真的要的资料都都会要不到然后呢我真的很怀疑前经济部长郭志辉说这个部分里面够咖啡我真的不晓得你们是因为他他没有讲出他导播你们叫他走人还是他知道还是怎么样因为呢这个部分就已经暴露出来的然后呢为什么掌握巨额的绿电投资要交给可以直达府方跟行政院长小英男孩我不能够理解经济部这么多的人才"},{"start":1164.83,"end":1193.801,"text":"这么多的人才为什么交给他因为我们收到非常多的一些资料为什么要这样子因为呢一个不受监督最主要院长他是不受我们立法院监督的很多人为了要直通上面要透过他有非常多的这个细节我不晓得你们行政内部调查调查到什么程度我现在也没有看到我光是问他一个为什么一个这样子环境还不错的这样子大家培养的明日之星他为什么说会说我想最直接的方式我问到他他目前的薪资多少"},{"start":1194.361,"end":1208.258,"text":"我也問不出來他說這是各自問題問題是院長的心思我知道啊部長的心思我也知道總統的心思我也知道立委的心思也知道這位完全不受掌控的綠推中心的心思問不出來你要不要現在告訴我"},{"start":1209.648,"end":1234.813,"text":"跟我們報告那因為他資歷的這個薪資他是在各地方政府對不對相關的這個計畫裡面來來這個那是多少資用人力的這個薪資的費用連這個費用我都還看不到我只看得到什麼部分你106到140預推中心共編了5億4千萬而且業務費是逐年的降低的這麼多階段性的任務院長你認為不認為該"},{"start":1236.893,"end":1263.571,"text":"結束了不受我們也不受旋轉門條款什麼都不受任何的監督一個幣案出來然後呢這裡面呢你看看太陽光電土地潰線協調離岸風電投資領選作業等等從頭到尾都是由他來主管而且你們太喜歡他了還把他當作是台智電的這樣的一個總經理然後呢另外一個台智電問題也出來了好不好你把這個綠色綠色中心我先問一下"},{"start":1264.231,"end":1289.618,"text":"綠推中心先回到剛剛那邊你認為綠推中心是不是要裁撤回到我們經濟部這麼多人才你覺得是不是要裁撤綠推中心其實除了做政策規劃以外他也收集了很多的一些國際間推動綠能相關的一些資訊供我們政策參考那另外就是說所以你認為還是有存在嗎綠推中心還是有它存在"},{"start":1291.098,"end":1316.624,"text":"行政调查如果没有给我们一个很满意的结果还有你的不断的在这样往下如果在发生这样的部分而且没有旋转门条款的一个限制太多东西都是我们没有办法看到的特别是我刚刚所提到的台制电的问题你看这一点有很大的争议你们对他真的非常的爱护你让他做台制电的总经理然后台制电请问像开发商买了多少电你知道目前为止台制电跟开发商买了多少电吗"},{"start":1317.678,"end":1340.446,"text":"當初設定的目的多少?目前都正在洽談中即將有一些案子其實目前來說大概只有25%到30%剩下的東西都還是要由開發商自己去想辦法去找買家而且有雜誌特別提到了目前市場就傳出這不是他們還是有根據的目前市場就傳出台積電為了賺錢"},{"start":1342.026,"end":1356.016,"text":"所以呢在千元買電的時候呢故意把價格壓低所以讓我們的開發商紛紛跳腳想退出然後呢有沒有這件事你們掌握的訊息有沒有這件事跟我們報告其實台智電他是扮演一個就是媒合這個"},{"start":1358.398,"end":1382.398,"text":"這個開發商跟用電戶的這樣的一個角色那絕對不會說有價格壓低壓低價格的一個現象絕對不會有這個部分所以說你看有能力者把已經取得的這個建制風場的資格選擇離開這也是一個事實很多外商公司選擇離開他們最後是放棄我們台灣的市場那你們有沒有不知道你有沒有掌握多少開發商因此撤出台灣"},{"start":1383.79,"end":1403.881,"text":"跟我們報告那開發商有一些是因為就是說整個這個在尋找國內這個供應鏈的這個過程可能在這個程序上他們可能會認為是要下多少測出來的嗎目前來講大概有幾件他就是已經"},{"start":1405.643,"end":1418.417,"text":"跟我們這個合約已經解除了那你覺得這些外資撤除之後會不會對我們未來的這整個投資封地的意願因此就大幅的降低應該不會因為我們還會有第三三期的這個三至三的這個開發"},{"start":1420.178,"end":1447.767,"text":"我只希望院長我今天提出這麼多的問題裡面人為的這個問題還有包括整個的這個開發商所反映出來給我們這些問題如果沒有辦法是徹底的解決的話他們就一個一個就分別走掉那走掉之後呢對於我們未來整個能源的部分裡面從我剛剛質詢的光電到目前為止的風電還有包括整個內部的問題如果沒有辦法從頭到尾給我們一個非常徹底的這樣子的一個非常親民公平公開的這樣一個方式這些問題"},{"start":1448.667,"end":1473.668,"text":"還是沒有辦法做一個解決的持續開發綠能是政府的政策我們不會讓他從此中斷我們會跟開發商跟國內廠商再合力第二點剛剛您說的綠推中心我現在除了要求我們行政調查要清楚現起出來之後要求加強他的行政監督外部監督內部的這些控管都要強化起來我們才有辦法讓他不會再產生相同的弊病"},{"start":1474.025,"end":1498.67,"text":"而且這裡面不受監督的單位當中院長你可能也要去徹查一下不受單位裡面蓋的這麼多鐵船交的這些單位裡面很多人的因素可能就會壞掉你們整個部分所以說一定要是特別是還是我強調不受監督的單位當中這些人的因素你一定要否則後面的未報單可能就會打垮很多行政團隊的一個專業好不好好"},{"start":1500.81,"end":1520.363,"text":"接下來我還是要特別提到我們總統在國慶演說當中有非常多亮麗的數字我們提出這個部分裡面包括我們面對對等的關稅所以我想院長應該都非常的清楚我們出口的市場的貨品都是高度集中在資通跟電子零件"},{"start":1521.724,"end":1551.127,"text":"是什么那其实很多的制造业到目前为止下滑而且还没有恢复我们目前有非常多无薪假特别是我们高雄的很多传产做了很多的努力但是大家也在挫泪因为不晓得未来到底是如何那我也知道目前都在谈判的阶段虽然这美国商业部长曾经提出的55要求已经被行政院给这个已经否认了认为说不会接受这样的一个条件那我再请问嘛因为目前为止马上就要揭露这些可能的一个数字"},{"start":1551.607,"end":1557.238,"text":"如果他們提出四六分或三七分等等這樣的方式裡面我覺得行政院的底線到底在哪裡"},{"start":1558.455,"end":1579.755,"text":"雙方還在進行最後的總決心會議之前有一些文書文件必須在做確認那目前為止我們還沒有對對方承諾到我們要做什麼對方也沒有承諾你們預估到底什麼時候這整個的數字等的方式可以明朗化我也希望能夠盡快讓所有的產業能夠安定下來我們都希望說十月份是一個好的時機是一個好的進展"},{"start":1582.017,"end":1597.583,"text":"因為對方的政府現在也陷入一種幾乎半空轉的狀態也是在衡量很多的現實問題我們有所有的數字裡面出口都是衰退的但是大家就是在擔心我們到底除了這個數字之外不管是20 25這個數字之外"},{"start":1599.744,"end":1617.737,"text":"到底台湾让利多少我还是要从这个院长的口中了解一下因为其实身为台美这个这个联谊会的会长其实有很多的时候就跟美国官方来做一些的会谈他们其实对于所谓的对外的贸易屏障的部分他们是非常在乎的啊然后呢我想请问这个院长"},{"start":1618.157,"end":1634.839,"text":"很多的時候美國有當面在我們談判的過程裡面要求我們取消包括我們基改還有包括我們這些肉品有包括取消產地標示放寬基改進入校園這樣子的一個說法嗎目前為止有沒有這個我們當然是維持在我們這個"},{"start":1636.352,"end":1650.827,"text":"國民健康的這個立場上我們不會去放鬆我們的立場雙方談判都有談到很多很多的案子但是我們堅持那四個原則國家利益 產業利益國人的健康以及糧食安全這四個部分我們不會放掉的"},{"start":1651.229,"end":1679.819,"text":"所以目前來說的話有這麼多裡面提到我們校園裡面的實際的安全很多的時候大家就會很擔心因為這部分已經流傳非常多的我並沒有提到這麼實際上實際技的部分裡面不要忘記了川普跟習近平在十月底的時候在韓國裡面的這個部分裡面有會做一些的我們行政院這部分裡面有沒有做出任何的一個推演台灣目前的一個角色還有未來他們在會談之後我們至於對於我們未來的關稅會做出什麼樣的一個處理"},{"start":1680.839,"end":1705.797,"text":"院長有沒有辦法在我們這個地方然後告訴我們因為現在已經十月只有兩個禮拜的時間了關稅還是希望能夠有合理的稅率同時不疊加同時對232再爭取更優惠的稅率這三項原則那我們現在提出一個台灣模式我想我也注意到了用企業自主去投資而且政府來做金融保證雙方政府之間美方政府跟我方之間用政府之間來做合作形成我們產業的聚落"},{"start":1706.477,"end":1735.704,"text":"美方會在我們水電行政以及簽證各方面給我們很多的協助我覺得這是院長你所提出的一個美好的計畫到底最後的一個實際的狀況還有包括我們整個的產業鏈移過去裡面整個真正的指導著他們這些廠商到底目前的狀況是怎麼樣我們其實都還未定所以我覺得這是院長可以提出願景但是實際的操作我覺得還是困難光是台積電到我們鳳凰城去光是人力的這個部分裡面其實也面臨非常大的挑戰沒有人可以像我們台灣的人力可以在那邊"},{"start":1736.244,"end":1764.753,"text":"受苦受難還可以這麼有阿信精神的不是每一個單位都可以像我們這樣子台灣最棒的台灣最棒的就是我們的人力啦所以我還是要提出來了這個部分裡面就是有關最後一個提出就是我們有關於我們人力的低薪問題院長你知道我們目前為止年輕人的低薪這個薪資低於3.1萬到底有多少人嗎120萬當中有多少人嗎3.1萬差不多是3.3萬多不好意思3萬多的最低低薪的目前年輕人當中有多少人你知道嗎"},{"start":1765.293,"end":1780.427,"text":"我們在最近調整最低薪資的時候我們如果最低是調到29590的話會有170幾萬的人其實低薪的問題是歷屆總統都非常擔心的院長你看一下面臨的低薪的困境裡面全台低於3.1萬勞工的有120萬人年輕人就佔了100萬"},{"start":1785.751,"end":1810.444,"text":"就占了100萬3.1萬這個是教他們怎麼生活然後就占了100萬所以我們用更多的家庭支持來降低他的負擔你覺得有辦法在這個過程當中這或許我只是提出這個數字我只告訴身為一個大學老師我的學生畢業之後然後他們都已經變成他們都還是年輕人可是他們家就在suffer這樣的一個薪水政府不管提出的租金補貼幹嘛還是一句話"},{"start":1811.224,"end":1811.244,"text":"好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1348,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（15時33分）謝謝主席，請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：柯委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：卓院長好。在我們進入真正質詢主題之前，我先問一下，韓國瑜院長在國慶大典時的致詞遭到貴黨發言人的痛批：貽笑國際、荒腔走板、失態、失格！當時我記得你跟韓院長在他講完握手的時候，你還滿和悅的，而且大家整體感覺都還滿祥和的，沒想到不久之後貴黨就發動一連串的攻擊。我想請問卓院長，你認為韓國瑜院長所提到臺灣面臨的問題都不是事實嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：第一個，我那天是跟韓院長說他的歌聲很好聽。"],["柯委員志恩：然後他講的事實都不是事實？"],["卓院長榮泰：關於他講的過程，我現在關心的不是隱形的堰塞湖，是那個實際的堰塞湖，我們還有在尖石鄉的泰崗溪堰塞湖……"],["柯委員志恩：所以關於貴黨所發動的這一連串攻擊，你自己事先知不知情？"],["卓院長榮泰：我當然不知道黨務系統的發言。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你們現在是黨政都分離就對了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["柯委員志恩：所以秘書長也沒有特別……秘書長現在已經不是從從容容，他現在是慌慌張張地做這一連串的攻擊，你都不知道！"],["卓院長榮泰：他是安安穩穩地在做秘書長的工作。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你都不知道這些事嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：黨部的發言系統我不知道。"],["柯委員志恩：我只是告訴院長，你雖然不是黨主席，可是為了大罷免完之後的朝野和諧，宰相肚裡能撐船，還是要為了和諧的部分，這些所謂的攻擊我覺得大可不必！更何況我認為韓院長所提出來的這些隱憂，哪一個不是事實？我們首先就來請教臺海彼此之間的風險，我們的總統已經公開承諾，在2030年的時候，國防預算要達到GDP的5%，當然我知道那個時候你已經不是院長了，應該不是了，但是你認為臺灣是否可以做到達到GDP的5%？"],["卓院長榮泰：這就看我們國防的需要，看我們的需求在哪裡。"],["柯委員志恩：當然是要看需求……"],["卓院長榮泰：另外還要看國家的財政能力如何。"],["柯委員志恩：所以我就算給院長聽，我們來看一下，如果照臺灣每年的經濟成長大概是2.5%來看的話，如果2030年我們的GDP有幸達到33.12兆臺幣的話，如果照5%來說，那時候我們的國防經費應該是占1.52兆到1.6兆，這是一個非常大的數字，那我們當然就會比較關切，我說國防自主，我每次提到國防的問題，我都要非常的小心，很怕大家會說我們在亂砍，然後如何、如何，絕對不是！我們用數字來說話，如果是這樣子的話，我非常擔心會對教育、社福、醫療、民生造成一些排擠，總統有跟你討論過要如何來解決嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我說我們要衡量我們當時的情況，第一個是國防的需求，第二個是政府的財政能力，當然我們所有已經支出去的社會福利、現在的政策沒有辦法走回頭路的有很多……"],["柯委員志恩：卓院長，我現在就非常的擔心，我們今年國防預算還是比以前更高，你看我們教育的經費，好不好？我要替教育部長說一下話，我們藍白在根本還沒有開始審的狀況之下，你們就已經讓它比過去少了兩百多億。"],["卓院長榮泰：教育的話，我們一直符合憲法的精神在編列。"],["柯委員志恩：是，但是你要告訴我……部長，你不用上來沒有問題，我現在只是要算給我們的卓院長聽，你看我們的國防預算，蔡總統從上任時的2.1%到卸任的時候成長到2.5%，他8年才提高了0.4個百分點，但是如果要符合我們總統所提到的5%，每年都要提高0.42%，這是一個非常大的數字，而且總統還特別提到要打造臺灣之盾，我不管它是鐵穹或是金穹，我們總預算到底是有多少？到底這個總經費是多少？它會是不是一個錢坑法案？還是真的就是喊著爽的？我現在是有點擔心啦！而且，我剛收到上禮拜五國防部所送來的報告書，在裡面我沒有看到大家所關切的，如果對方真的發動了千百架無人機攻擊的時候我們的反制方法，明明有這麼多的國防預算，還有包括我們到底有沒有辦法做到一些攔截等等之類的，我們最新的這個五年的兵力整建計畫當中其實並沒有提及。當然，部長也非常的努力，我們現在編了大筆的預算，未來五年我們要建構超過5萬架無人機的戰力，沒有錯吧，部長？但是我們要問人手在哪裡？因為人力是我們一個非常大的問題，我們現在從110年每個來看，光是訓練這一些，111年到現在到底多少人完訓？合格率到底是多少？目前留營的狀況到底是什麼？我先不要去講細節，這幾年我們作戰部隊人力已經不足，這都是公開的秘密了，對不對？部長，你應該很清楚吧！志願役人力嚴重的損失，明年大減2聯兵旅，而且一年減少了6,784人，兩年減少一萬多人，我們在野黨……"],["顧部長立雄：我想委員這樣的一個訊息是不正確的，因為我們每年編的人員維持費，在過去，這個預算的員額數編得比實際的員額數要高，今年我們特別要求務實編列，所以它事實上不是實質上人員有所減少……"],["柯委員志恩：但是部長，到目前為止，我們整個的待遇使我們的招募面臨人力非常不足的問題，你大部分實際的兵員編制比例都是不足80%，這些都是老問題，然後我要特別提出來，我們為了這些問題想盡所有辦法，在野黨想盡所有的辦法，我們對於薪資等各方面的提高，還有幫忙解決志願役的待遇，我想這是一個方法，但是你們現在卻用釋憲的方法把它卡住，我只是提出我們有那麼多的國防預算，但是對於人力、要能夠留得住人的這個問題，其實有一些方法可以……以那麼多的軍費來說，我們未嘗不去思考一下，這是一個很大的問題。好了，沒關係，部長，你還可以稍微留著，因為等一下……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們在對國軍的待遇上，今年已經增加了171億。"],["柯委員志恩：我還是強調，在野黨三讀通過的部分不用等到……"],["卓院長榮泰：未來都會持續增加……"],["柯委員志恩：有很多方式是可以立即來做一些解決的，而且跟我們每年的國防預算相比，以目前來說，這是一個可以解決的方法，思考一下。","接下來再問一個，有關於我們不斷強調的韌性，能源的供應就好像阿基里斯腱一樣，你看我們的天然氣，這都是根據數據而來的，我們的天然氣儲存是11天，這個源頭還是我們的能源政策，然後114年到116年，大家可以看到分別儲量是10.6、9.8、11.4，而且以法定的天數來說，真的都是不足。國防部長也說了，為了解決這個問題，要提升油料的儲存，規劃向中油採購32億餘元的油料來分散儲存。我想請問部長，應該問院長，這32億餘元的油料要放在什麼地方？要如何支援發電？"],["顧部長立雄：我們是請中油代囤，這樣可以做一個分散的囤儲，當我們需要的時候，到了每一個所在的地方，可以讓這些囤儲的油……"],["柯委員志恩：要存放在哪裡？我們大家很關切要存放在哪裡，是軍事機密？"],["顧部長立雄：中油有一些各種各樣分散囤儲的地方……"],["柯委員志恩：其實要儲存的地方……"],["顧部長立雄：然後再利用我們所需要的時機，實施後勤補給到我們需要的作戰地境。"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得這個部分，你們要放在什麼地方可以維持多久，這是非常的關鍵。好了，請部長回座。","接下來我問一下卓院長，為了穩定供電，台電不斷在建置燃氣機組，但是院長，以目前所根據的數據來說，真的還是比預期落後，而且還在施工規劃裡面的測試階段。你看我們落後的部分，機組落後大概是1年到8年，院長有沒有看到？而且為了趕工，甚至把一些商轉都提前，導致整個監工都會有一些問題。你現在看一下，台電的夜間備用容量率已經連續三年沒有達到法定的標準，法定標準是15%，你看111年到113年的分別數字，經濟部如果預估未來我們還要AI、還要算力等等的部分，然後你已經看到即將發生的，114年到116年的夜間備用容量率會降到8.5%、10.3%、8.5%，幾乎是目標值的五成到六成，我們臺灣真的是……"],["卓院長榮泰：夜間不是15%，報告委員，夜間沒有到15%，夜間是6%，安全……"],["柯委員志恩：這是我根據往年的數字。"],["卓院長榮泰：可是夜間真的是6%，大家現在都知道這個數字。"],["柯委員志恩：不是，我是說夜間會降到8.5%、10.3%，這是根據我們的數字，我們也比較關切，難道完全不缺電嗎？完全是不缺的嗎？這是要提供院長來做一些數據上面的參考。","接下來我還是要問光電的問題，光電問題也是連年的……這個真的是為了要加速再生能源，其實從蔡政府開始就已經不斷地去蓋光電板，說實在的，一些的好山好水真的是有被破壞掉，很多的亂象到目前為止都還是浮現喔！對於我們生態的破壞，這是無庸置疑的，然後颱風一來，其實也是災難，我想這個部分大家都會看到。最近當然包括大樹的光電、屏鵝公路的光電、核三的光電案及烏山頭水庫的光電，當時因為時空背景的關係，這些案場通過的時候都不需要做環評。院長，說實在的，這麼多光電案場都沒有做環評，導致目前這樣的狀況。環境部目前在1月16號開始做修正，對不對？我先請問院長一下，環境部今年初修正這個環評之後，目前有多少的光電案場有申請送到環評？院長，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個要請部長來看數據。"],["柯委員志恩：沒關係，院長，你知道有多少環評……"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，有3件送過來，不過因為沒有完整，我們有退回。"],["柯委員志恩：是，你看，3件，這麼嚴格的環評通過之後，以前大家都大力的不斷送件，好不好？因為不需要環評，現在有一個設定之後，這是第一次退回這個光電場的環評嘛，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["柯委員志恩：就是寶樹、寶亞及寶隆等3家申請在屏東的老埤農場，有3件。部長、院長，為什麼只有這3件？你知道為什麼嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們有一定的標準、有一定的規格……"],["柯委員志恩：那就表示它涵蓋兩個意義，一個意義就是過去實在太浮濫了，以前怎麼送就怎麼OK，大家趁不需要環評的時候全部送完了，這3件都被你們退貨，表示什麼？表示目前來申請的其實資格都不太符合，所以才會造成我們現在其實是非常為難的，不是嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，光電要有一定的面積及一定的MW才會需要環評，全世界都是一樣，臺灣算是比日本還要嚴格。第二個，臺灣的光電目前只占我們土地面積的0.41%，臺南比較高，接近2%左右。"],["柯委員志恩：好，我想請問一下，我也曾經問過能源署，到目前為止，你知道有多少違法的光電開發案場嗎？目前有多少？我有跟能源署調，有人可以回答這個部分嗎？有多少違法開發的案場，現在大家都非常的關切，我告訴你答案，能源署說只有5件，院長，你相信只有5件嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：應該有更詳細的數字。"],["柯委員志恩：是，應該有更詳細的，而且我不相信只有5件，然後到目前為止，還不能告訴我具體的案場在哪裡，我覺得立法委員要資料，天經地義啊！我們想了解整個狀況到底是如何，問了老半天，終於送來一個資料了──5件，臺南1個、高雄1個、嘉義1個、澎湖2件，然後最重要的是，被開罰都是100到200萬，其他細節我都問不到。光電的利益動輒上億，然後你只開罰100到200萬！我們要問地點，我們要問細節，但我們要不到任何的資料，這是我們民代應該去監督政府的角色跟責任，院長，你覺得合理嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員相信，我們絕不容許光電變成非法集團在那邊謀取利益。"],["柯委員志恩：是，那是不是起碼可以給我們更好的資料？可不可以給我們更詳細的資料，能夠讓我們更嚴格的監督？要什麼資料，完全沒有！"],["卓院長榮泰：請經濟部、能源署一定要把各地現在有疑問的地方，一一地把它清查清楚。"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們就回到這，你剛剛說我們需要土地，沒有錯，能源署告訴我們是參考國際的一個標準，但太陽光電部分裡面的旗艦計畫，你們告訴我在2035年的時候要把35.02GW當作目標，請問35.02GW是需要多少土地？你們幫我算出來，如果是照你們的國際標準的話，參考國際標準2035年要35.02GW，我告訴你，我們這樣推算過來、比照推估後，土地至少需要4.4萬公頃，比較好的說法就是1,692個大安森林公園，我們有這麼多的土地嗎？而且經濟部有沒有去盤點？我比較重視有沒有去盤點，有沒有跟內政部、農業部去討論過？我們當然很希望能夠蓋在我們的屋頂，但是非屋頂的部分我們需要這麼多的土地，而且我們要犧牲四萬多公頃的土地，臺灣哪裡找得到這麼大的土地面積？我們的農業怎麼辦？這些都需要大家共同來盤點，可是我們目前只看到一個目標在那個地方，其他都沒有看到。","能源署說要以公家的土地為優先，公家土地就只有一個，叫做台糖啊，就只有台糖啊！所以很多人就開始要談台糖的土地，但到目前為止，沒有人可以直接回應這部分，所以我只希望在你們規劃這些事情的時候，要嘛告訴我2035要達到這樣的目標做不到，不然就是吹牛，不然你們就告訴我土地在哪裡。院長，這真的是非常重要，你找不到土地，你就找到海邊，就找到滯洪池，就找到水庫。","你看，最近非常爆紅的烏山頭水庫，這麼大的太陽能板。我現在想了解一下，這麼多的水庫建置光電板，當然，你們都已經做出很多的澄清，說對我們的用水沒有問題，同意，你們專家說什麼，就給我們一個好的方式，我們不糾結在這個地方。只是大家不斷在講，那個時候的水庫連水保法都不能開發，為什麼可以種電？而且昨天經濟部長還有陳駿季部長都在經濟委員會說不核准臺南4座水庫的開發。我想請問一下，是只有臺南的水庫目前為止不准開發，還是全臺灣省都不准開發？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，不論是屋頂型或是地面型，我們當初都有盤整，只是在過程當中我們會滾動式的檢討，看用什麼方式來做會比較順暢。我們的開發除了地上之外，現在也往水面，我早上也說過了……"],["柯委員志恩：院長，我現在非常害怕滾動式，你看環境部滾動式，滾動式到檢討完畢之後送上來的都不通過，之前每個人就是猛送，滾動式有時候實在是太慢了，像目前爆發了這麼多的問題，而且我真的要慎重地說，中央不應該推給地方來做決定，因為這種亂象我真的認為……因為在全國國土計畫當中，只想把太陽光電納入這個空間，可是整個綠能的發展、訂立計畫的規則，還有總量的管制，目前為止地方政府真的是完全無所適從，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們的三個原則：第一個，我們現在還是要多元開發綠能，這個是其中一項。第二個，已經存在水面上的，我們一定會請環境部強力地去檢測水質，一定要確保沒有問題。第三個，未來要做的，如果我們對安全檢測、對水質的維護沒有把握，人力上做不到，我們就不允許再做開發。"],["柯委員志恩：我還是強烈的希望院長能夠承諾，跟經濟部一起承諾，中央未來在訂立這些規則的時候，要納入直轄縣市的國土計畫，讓地方有所依循，資訊一定要非常透明，不要讓我們有拿不到資料的問題，而且要經過公民跟專家審議之後才做為政策的目標，我覺得這個部分是非常重要的。我下面提供幾個建議，我沒有時間一一去唸，但是有關於建立這些機制，包括你要給我們一份很詳細的極端天氣應變，還有怎麼樣在災前預防性的降載或拆卸的SOP等等，這些我都提供給相關單位，我希望院長能夠很清楚的看待，因為我們臺灣已經面臨這個部分。再怎麼樣，能源政策既然是你們既定的目標，你們又希望能夠拓展光電，但光電又造成我們現在所看到的這麼多的問題，我覺得有一個法定的SOP是目前為止彼此之間最大的共識，好好把它訂好。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會要求經濟部來建立。"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得這個部分是非常重要的，好不好？謝謝兩位部長。還有，臺灣再生能源，院長，我說實在的……兩位部長可以先回座，我們現在請經濟部長，我要問一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：經濟部在這。"],["柯委員志恩：臺灣再生能源的規劃，我們都交給經濟部下面的綠推中心，但是綠能的推手前副執行長，這已經是過去的新聞，但是還是有很多後續的部分，我還是要請教一下。前副執行長鄭亦麟因為貪污，目前正被押解當中，現在很多人認為綠推中心變成收賄中心，當時的執行長就是我們現在的經濟部長龔明鑫，我們的龔部長，請問發生這麼大的狀況，有誰為這件事情負起責任嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，因為這個案子已經進入到司法程序……"],["柯委員志恩：我知道到司法程序，可是……"],["何次長晉滄：但是我們內部還是有做一些調查了解……"],["柯委員志恩：然後呢？"],["何次長晉滄：了解到底這樣的案件為什麼會發生？"],["柯委員志恩：結果？"],["何次長晉滄：我們也了解在整個綠推中心的執行……綠能政策的過程裡面……"],["柯委員志恩：我現在要問，你們都把它變成司法調查或內部的行政調查之類的，但還是一句話，院長，我要跟你抱怨，要資料什麼都要不到，真的，要資料都要不到。然後我真的很懷疑，前經濟部長郭智輝說，這個裡面還有比較大尾的，我真的不曉得你們是不是因為他講出有比較大尾的，所以你們叫他走人，還是怎麼樣？這個部分就已經暴露出來了，然後為什麼掌握鉅額的綠電投資，並且要交給可以直達府方跟行政院的小英男孩，我不能夠理解，經濟部有這麼多的人才，為什麼要交給他？因為我們收到非常多的資料，為什麼要這樣子？一個不受監督的單位，院長，最主要他是不受我們立法院監督的，他要怎樣就怎樣，很多人為了要直通上面要透過他，有非常多的細節，我不曉得你們行政內部調查到什麼程度，我現在也沒有看到。我光是問，他一個環境還不錯的，大家培養的明日之星，他為什麼會收賄？所以我想用最直接的方式，他目前的薪資多少，這個我也問不出來，他說這是個資問題，問題是院長的薪資我知道，部長的薪資我也知道，總統的薪資我也知道，立委的薪資也知道，但這一位完全不受掌控的、綠推中心的薪資卻問不出來！你要不要現在告訴我？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，因為他支領的薪資是在……"],["柯委員志恩：各地方政府，對不對？"],["何次長晉滄：相關計畫裡面支用人力的費用。"],["柯委員志恩：那是多少嘛？連這個費用我都還看不到，我只看得到什麼？就是106到114年綠推中心共編了5億4,000萬，而且業務費是逐年降低的，這麼多階段性的任務，院長認不認為該結束了？他不受我們監督，也不受旋轉門條款限制，都不受任何的監督，一個弊案出來……然後這裡面，你看看太陽光電土地、饋線協調、離岸風電投資、遴選作業等等，從頭到尾都是由他來主管，而且你們太喜歡他了，還讓他做台智電的總經理。但是另外一個台智電問題也出來了，你把綠推中心……我先回到剛剛那邊，你認為綠推中心是不是要裁撤？我們經濟部有這麼多人才，你覺得綠推中心需不需要裁撤？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，綠推中心其實除了做政策規劃以外，也蒐集很多一些國際間推動綠能相關的資訊供我們政策參考。另外……"],["柯委員志恩：所以你認為還是有存在必要嗎？我說實在……"],["何次長晉滄：其實綠推中心還是有它存在的必要……"],["柯委員志恩：行政調查如果沒有給我們一個很滿意的結果，如果不斷再這樣往下、再發生這樣的事情，而且沒有旋轉門條款的限制，太多東西都是我們沒有辦法看到的，更特別是我剛剛所提台智電的問題，你看！這裡有很大的爭議，你們對他真的非常的愛護，你讓他去做台智電的總經理，請問台智電向開發商買了多少電？你知道目前為止台智電跟開發商買了多少電嗎？考量當初設定的目的，多少？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，目前都正在洽談中，也即將有一些案子……"],["柯委員志恩：其實沒有，目前來說，大概只有25%到30%，剩下的都還是要由開發商自己去想辦法找買家。有雜誌特別提到，他們還是有根據的，目前市場傳出台智電為了賺錢，所以在簽約買電時故意把價格壓低，讓我們的開發商紛紛跳腳想退出，有沒有這件事？你們掌握的訊息有沒有這件事？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實台智電是扮演一個媒合開發商跟用電戶的角色，絕對不會刻意去壓低……"],["柯委員志恩：所以沒有價格壓低這件事就對了？"],["何次長晉滄：絕對不會有壓低價格的現象，絕對不會有這樣的現象。"],["柯委員志恩：不會有這個部分？"],["何次長晉滄：對。"],["柯委員志恩：所以你看，有能源業者把已經取得建置風場的資格放棄，選擇離開，這也是一個事實，很多外商公司選擇離開，他們最後是放棄我們臺灣的市場，部長，你有沒有掌握多少開發商因此撤出臺灣？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，因為有一些開發商是在尋找國內供應鏈的過程，在程序上他們可能會認為……"],["柯委員志恩：你知道現在有多少撤出來了嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：目前來講，大概有幾件跟我們的合約已經解除了。"],["柯委員志恩：你覺得這些外資撤除之後會不會對我們未來投資風電的意願大幅降低？"],["何次長晉滄：我想應該不會，因為我們還會有3-3的開發。"],["柯委員志恩：我只希望院長，我今天提出這麼多的問題裡面，人為的問題，還有包括開發商反映給我們的這些問題，如果沒有辦法澈底解決的話，他們就一個一個分別走掉，走掉之後，對於我們未來的整個能源，從我剛剛質詢的光電到目前為止的風電，還有整個內部的問題，如果沒有辦法從頭到尾給我們一個非常澈底、非常親民、公平、公開的方式，這些問題還是沒有辦法解決。"],["卓院長榮泰：第一件，持續開發綠能是政府的政策，我們不會讓它從此中斷，我們會跟開發商和國內廠商合力；第二件，剛剛您說的綠推中心，我現在除了要求我們行政調查要清楚外，限期出來之後會要求加強行政監督、外部監督，內部控管都要強化起來，我們才有辦法讓它不會再產生相同的弊病。"],["柯委員志恩：而且這裡面不受監督的單位當中，院長你可能也要去徹查一下，不受監督的單位和這麼多疊床架屋的單位，很多人的因素可能就會讓整個壞掉，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們來檢討這個組織，加強監督。"],["柯委員志恩：我還是要特別強調，不受監督的單位當中，這些人的因素你一定要控管，否則後面的未爆彈可能就會打垮很多行政團隊的專業。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["柯委員志恩：接下來我還是要特別提到，總統在我們國慶演說當中有提到非常多亮麗的數字，包括我們面對的對等關稅，我想院長應該都非常的清楚，我們出口市場的貨品都是高度集中在資通跟電子零件，這是事實，其實很多製造業到目前為止都是下滑，而且還沒有恢復，目前有非常多無薪假，特別是我們高雄很多傳產，他們做了很多的努力，但是大家也在擔心，不曉得未來到底是如何。我也知道目前都在談判的階段，雖然美國商業部長曾經提出五五分的要求已經被行政院給否認了，認為不會接受這樣的條件，那我再請問，目前為止，馬上就要揭露這些可能的數字，如果他們提出四六分或三七分等等方式，行政院的底線到底在哪裡？"],["卓院長榮泰：雙方在進行最後總結性會議之前，有一些文書、文件必須再做確認，目前為止……"],["柯委員志恩：什麼時候可以給我們結果？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們還沒有對對方承諾我們要做什麼，對方也沒有承諾……"],["柯委員志恩：你們預估到底什麼時候這個的數字和方式可以明朗化？"],["卓院長榮泰：我也希望能夠儘快，讓產業能夠安定下來。"],["柯委員志恩：所以還是未知？你看嘛……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望10月份是一個好的時機……"],["柯委員志恩：光輝10月是一個好的時間，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：可以好好的進展，但不曉得……"],["柯委員志恩：可能這個……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為對方政府現在也陷入一種幾乎半空轉的狀態……"],["柯委員志恩：對啊，美國政府shut down了。"],["卓院長榮泰：也在衡量很多的現實問題。"],["柯委員志恩：所有的數字裡面，出口都是衰退的，但是大家擔心除了這個數字之外，不管是20、25這個數字之外，到底臺灣還讓利多少？我還是要從院長口中了解一下，因為身為臺美聯誼會的會長，會有很多時候要去跟美國官方做一些會談，他們其實對於所謂對外貿易屏障的部分是非常在乎的。我想請問院長，很多時候美國有當面在談判的過程裡面，包括基改，包括我們這些肉品，有要求我們取消產地標示、放寬基改、進入校園，有這樣子的說法嗎？目前為止有沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們當然是維持在國民健康的立場上，我們不會去放鬆我們的立場，雙方談判都有談到很多很多的案子，但是我們就堅持四個原則：國家利益、產業利益、國人健康以及糧食安全，這四個部分我們不會放掉的。"],["柯委員志恩：所以目前來說，有這麼多都有提到校園裡實際的安全，很多時候大家就會很擔心，因為這部分已經流傳非常多的……"],["卓院長榮泰：抱歉！不要誤會，並沒有提到這麼實際上的問題。"],["柯委員志恩：還沒有這麼實際的部分？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有。"],["柯委員志恩：不要忘記了，川普跟習近平在10月底的時候，要在韓國會做一些的……我們行政院針對這部分，有沒有做出任何的推演？臺灣目前的角色，還有未來他們在會談之後，對於我們未來的關稅會做出什麼樣的處理？院長，有沒有辦法在這個地方來告訴我們？因為現在已經10月，只有兩個禮拜的時間。"],["卓院長榮泰：關稅還是希望能夠有合理的稅率，同時不疊加，同時對232再爭取更優惠的稅率，這三項原則。我們現在提出一個臺灣模式，我想委員也注意到了，用企業自主去投資，而且政府來做金融保證，雙方政府之間──美方政府跟我方之間，用政府之間來做合作，形成產業的聚落，那美方會在水電、行政以及各方面給我們很多的協助……"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得這是院長所提出一個美好的計畫，到底最後實際的狀況，還有包括我們整個產業鏈移過去，整個真正指導他們的這些廠商，到底目前的狀況是怎麼樣？我們其實都還未定。所以我覺得院長是可以提出願景，但是實際的操作，我覺得還是困難。光是台積電到鳳凰城，光是人力的部分，其實也面臨非常大的挑戰，沒有人像我們臺灣的人力可以在那邊受苦、受難，還可以有阿信的精神，不是每一個單位都可以像我們這樣子，臺灣最棒的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我要感謝我們的產業界。"],["柯委員志恩：臺灣最棒的就是我們的人力啦！所以我最後還是要提出來。最後要提出的就是有關於我們人力的低薪問題。院長，你知道目前為止年輕人的薪資低於3.1萬的大概有多少人嗎？120萬人當中，有多少人嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：3.1萬人。"],["柯委員志恩：差不多是三萬多，目前年輕人當中領最低薪資的有多少人，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們最近在調整最低薪資的時候，如果最低薪資調到2萬9,590的話，會有一百七十幾萬的人受惠。"],["柯委員志恩：其實低薪的問題是歷屆總統都非常擔心的。院長，你看面臨低薪的困境裡面，全臺低於3.1萬的勞工就有120萬人，年輕人就占了100萬。3.1萬，這是要叫他們怎麼生活？然後又占了100萬。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們用更多的家庭支持來降低他的負擔，雖然沒辦法一下子高薪……"],["柯委員志恩：你覺得有辦法？在這個過程當中，這或許……我只是提出這個數字，身為一個大學老師，我的學生畢業之後，他們都還是年輕人，可是他們現在就在suffer這樣的薪水，政府不管提出了租金補貼等等措施，還是一句話，這是環環相扣的，整個產業如果沒有辦法聘得請更多的勞動人力，沒有辦法再給予他們合理的薪資，光是靠政府每一次不斷地在提高什麼最低薪資，對他們來說，還是沒有辦法達到。我只是提供這個數字，為這些年輕人請命，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員，我們持續努力、一起加強，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","休息10分鐘之後，請蔡易餘委員準備質詢。現在休息。","休息（16時3分）","繼續開會（16時14分）"],["主席：報告院會，現在繼續開會。","接下來請蔡易餘委員質詢。林思銘委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":23,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-4","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-14"],"gazette_id":"1147901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第4次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147901_00001"}}}