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734.803, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 734.803, \"end\": 734.903, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 734.903, \"end\": 734.983, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 734.983, \"end\": 735.023, \"score\": 0.49}, {\"word\": \"座\", \"start\": 735.023, \"end\": 735.043, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,479 --> 00:00:06,627\n好我們謝謝主席我們是不是請政部長請政部長\n\n2\n00:00:13,779 --> 00:00:38,935\n部长早我想明年中央政府的总预算比今年是增加了1100亿但是我们整个教科文文化的支出反而减少了263亿我现在指的是正式别的教育支出当然包括行政院本来要给的还有教育部主管的这个整个降幅可以说是最大大概是比今年度大概就是减少了将近908亿大概降幅是27.7%\n\n3\n00:00:40,316 --> 00:00:59,305\n当然问过的院长他说当然很多过去应该是中央给的现在就是由地方来给可是这样子的方式像我们我不晓得这个彭书长这个脸现在是以后比较不管事的还是觉得前辈三这么多不太愉快啊138亿国教署最重要的啊我觉得整个才华法的分配不是这个样子的\n\n4\n00:00:59,725 --> 00:01:11,039\n很多的状况之下由中央该负责的就应该由中央我们举例来说你看我先请教部长这种预算的编排方法这种断崖式的断崖式的一个消减部长你有跟院长反应过吗\n\n5\n00:01:12,848 --> 00:01:41,784\n他有問過你的意見嗎還是我們教育部就被都不講話嗎直接被告知嗎沒有跟委員報告教育部這個行政院左院長事實上對這個學校的教育部的一個預算事實上是非常的支持委員也可以看到好啦所以你是同意的是不是還特別為高等教育申請到有200億有這個沒有問題啦這個有教育部需要什麼錢我們就盡量支持我下次問你院長有沒有問過你啦\n\n6\n00:01:42,684 --> 00:02:08,708\n这里边当然都有那你有没有问过地方的教育局长我举例来说嘛二到六这个所谓这个我们幼童的一个照顾是总统的政策总统的政策你现在把这个钱放到地方地方会不会把它当作是优先来处理我们都不知道所以我觉得这个部分来说的话应该把它负责的清楚我现在是要帮教育部发声很多的方法不应该是这个样子而且一般性补助款版权\n\n7\n00:02:08,848 --> 00:02:19,635\n零到六歲國家一起養這個部分我們變成688億但是我們內部還是有600億只是地方承接的那地方政府如果因為不同的財源有不同的方法包括營養午餐沒有辦法用我們國產的這些部分每個地方都不一樣如果不是由中央統一來去做要交給地方地方會因為不同的財源的優先次序不見得會把它放棄這是我所擔心的\n\n8\n00:02:38,326 --> 00:02:54,481\n所以我才說這種斷崖式的這個方法如果院長沒有好好跟部長溝通部長沒有好好跟地方的教育局處來做溝通的話我擔心這個方法下去的話我們很多孩子的很多的教育經費很多教育的支援因為這樣會變成各縣市都會不一樣\n\n9\n00:02:54,821 --> 00:03:18,670\n感謝委員提醒確實委員所擔心當時財務法以後我們也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長做這樣的一個討論我們也希望說中央在補助給地方的一般講補助這些裡邊絕對不能夠有任何的打折包含這些教育的東西教育領域的一個機會應該要讓地方這些我們都會時間實在是快太快了我們有太多問題的\n\n10\n00:03:19,790 --> 00:03:46,099\n所以说部长我相信你的苦心你也相信我们对教育的用心不要把才化法当作是洪水猛射好像什么事情地方如果不做都完全来自于才化法不是这个样子的我觉得不会是这样子的好了教师节前夕我想这个部长你是来自于这个教育出身你应该受到非常多老师给你谈到这个他们很多第一线所担心的一个问题嘛没有错嘛而且你也信誓旦旦说会帮他们解决我们就一来看嘛\n\n11\n00:03:46,599 --> 00:04:03,332\n这个目前到8月25号的时候我们全国3000多个国中小还有1429个教师缺这是一个事实我觉得我很感叹的你看这个整个部分我们把调列出来很多学校被迫第三招很多是第三招这是明星的学校\n\n12\n00:04:03,812 --> 00:04:24,123\n那更不要说写片语还有13招而且你现在条件放宽到你完全不需要教师证也没有教育相关背景我很感叹啊以前要拿到这个教师证是多困难以前多少人要来做当当这个老师可是你看现在整个教育环境都非常的不友善一个老师要身兼多职还要被迫朝总点还有呢\n\n13\n00:04:25,023 --> 00:04:53,862\n部长七成的师培生都要跳船了而且我们最在乎的自然科物理科这些宁可到业界也不要过来说三年后搞不好就是归零你知道吗这个师大通过教警的学生有一半是不当老师的而且我们全国有七万名储备人力有教师证只有三有储备人力然后有三成报考而且通过的人大概可能只有七成的人还不愿意进入我们这个职场\n\n14\n00:04:55,383 --> 00:05:09,670\n這是個很大的問題啊公文報告我們確實我進來以後也發現了我們在整個產業的一個這一個科技產業的快速發展確實對學校也產生了一定的影響跟衝擊那麼我們過去的工會生\n\n15\n00:05:10,490 --> 00:05:28,398\n是善居在各大學一個系統一班兩班一班可能只有一個兩個那這個對學校來講真正培養STEM的老師他是沒有辦法權益的不會只有STEM而已我下次告訴你光是以前師培每一次開三班一班五十個現在根本只剩下一班\n\n16\n00:05:28,658 --> 00:05:55,347\n我要跟委員報告的是我們現在會集中用好我們就來看看你們到底有沒有辦法這些我們都可以來討論還沒有前面最重要是你看嘛我們很多地方不管是幼教的學程或是幼保的科系娶沒人師資都沒有辦法很多學校幼稚園裡面都找不到要教保人員這些都是來自於薪資都是來自於整個環境環境到底有哪些問題部長你應該很清楚我們往下看\n\n17\n00:05:56,047 --> 00:06:19,941\n有关于这个所谓的教师荒为什么不要你看薪资我刚讲这很现实啊不要告诉我们老师都只有热忱了不啦过去的我们基本工资上涨了230%我们老师呢终点费只有5%到29%这完全不成比例呀环境不好好对老师们比较友善哎以前我妈妈去拆车要拆人家在说她是老师把你送葱送蒜的\n\n18\n00:06:22,623 --> 00:06:43,324\n其实没有叫你冲散就已经很不错了你看差别这么大来我们往下看然后你看真的是非常的不友善现在里面来说的话很多老师就认为他们完全是处在一些焦虑当中现在我们目前有这个教室的会议里面当中校室会议当中你看平均\n\n19\n00:06:44,085 --> 00:07:02,720\n学期中平均每个月有125老师被调查你看看处理的结果不成立的34%程序中的30%案件成立的给予解聘的26占全部的2.3%这个比率我相信身为老师我相信我们需要秉公处理\n\n20\n00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:19,727\n身为家长我也很希望我的学生我的孩子万一发生事情我也很害怕我万一举发万一说我的名字我的孩子被看到我搞不好会做不平等待遇所以家长有他的看法老师也有他的委屈这个平衡点部长你该怎么样来处理啊\n\n21\n00:07:20,347 --> 00:07:48,049\n跟委員報告我們確實我進來也確實發現這一個問題我們現在檢討整個流程裡面現在是只要指控不管具名或者不具名全部都進入到校試會議這就是家長願意老師覺得我都要進入校試會議以前的教評會因為以前教評會的時候大家就是關關相護很多人認為關關相護可是你全部進到這個校試會議的當中的話你的程序你講話你申請\n\n22\n00:07:49,569 --> 00:08:15,514\n零元你办一个案子要十万很多老师在这么多当中他们会觉得我要花时间在这个地方我们都一样的看到了问题我们希望分流在前面只有真正不试任教师当时校师会本来是处理不试任教师其他老师的班当然可是你看到这个结果嘛我只是要提醒这整个会议的流程的公平整个公开还有不要给老师太多的负担\n\n23\n00:08:16,574 --> 00:08:37,045\n這些都是很需要的要從流程裡面就先分流了是但是你這個分流的過程當中大多這就是老師反映的這都是老師所反映的他們在這個過程當中他們會覺得對所以你必須要是具名然後裡面有很多的保證金的方法很多的方式你都要來做處理我們的案例26個後來不去認的這些都是具名的\n\n24\n00:08:41,828 --> 00:08:55,822\n还有部长你也听过了很多行政减量已经讲了很多了你对于流程paperwork的减量我给你肯定了那的确是减少非常多的一个负担这个没有问题但是我也觉得教育部创意无限的斑斑有牛奶\n\n25\n00:08:56,443 --> 00:09:20,929\n好给孩子有这个营养没有问题老师要来做调查有没有大陆居住证这个部分呢一个学校填五次到七次好了你的校园爱心球你还要叫老师去盘点全国中小学的器具开放还有呢第七堂课部长你们告诉我说第七堂课老师可以弹性处理问题是你们教育的奖励的部分你就看第七堂课有没有啊每次都说你们可以弹性处理\n\n26\n00:09:21,269 --> 00:09:47,271\n就你们奖励办法里面把这个当作是你们奖励的其中一个老师敢不敢做所以这些都是你的创意我也相信你这是非常希望学校学生更好可是这些对老师来说都是他们额外的行政负担我刚刚已经讲了薪资没有比别人好动不动可能就会被投诉再加上有这么多的行政我们教育部我没有办法留得住人才吗哪有办法留得住老师\n\n27\n00:09:47,771 --> 00:10:08,066\n跟委員報告我其實因為委員本身也是心理專業的一個學者我其實心情跟委員是一樣的我們希望青少年有一個更好的一個學習環境而不是每天只是關在教室裡面學歌的學習我當然知道可是這個東西你要如何希望有更蓬勃的社團所以說院長不部長部長他剛才叫成近邊的院長部長\n\n28\n00:10:12,449 --> 00:10:33,971\n有了他当过教育学院院长也是可以的所以说部长我们都知道所以你的创意跟老师的行政我觉得这个两者之间的平衡部长你要拿捏住否则我们老师会越来越最后一个你刚刚说身心灵可以啊我们现在都有身心调试家但是你竟然把身心调试家跟试家放在一起这是两个不一样的\n\n29\n00:10:34,491 --> 00:10:54,367\n你为什么要把它当作事项来计算这个对老师来说对很多人来说是完全觉得我有请没有请还是一样的而且最重要的是你没有考虑到客户排带的这个问题虽然这个钱是由学校来支付但是谁来找代课老师我总不能告诉你我下礼拜会有忧郁症吧\n\n30\n00:10:54,867 --> 00:11:18,699\n然后我又一直但是我要事先找代课老师啊这问题怎么解决而且这个两个性质完全跟这个市价完全不一样你这么有心要给各位老师有这样的一个调整你也去把它放在这个市价让老师到底要不要请代课老师你没办法解决还有公立学校的教保员可不可以有身心调试私立学校的教保员可不可以有私校老师有没有代理老师有没有\n\n31\n00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:29,003\n一國多製很多老師身心俱疲他們需要可是你卻在後面卡上一個關卡這對老師來說要請這個假他們也很困難老師他這個請試假他是要致富這個代課會\n\n32\n00:11:35,026 --> 00:11:56,925\n那我们这一个部分你付钱我知道但是他还是把它变入重点是谁来帮这些老师请代理的老师很多时候我是今天早上我才觉得我心情不好我一定要来请我就拿去找代课老师这个在程序上我们来请学校一定要建立一个自治我讲的都是第一线老师还有自己个人的经验是\n\n33\n00:11:58,406 --> 00:12:15,043\n部長我們都是同樣背景同樣在這條線上我們應該可以溝通這些的問題我們真的要好好否則我很擔心沒有好的老師沒有好的學生我們老師真的快待不下去了好不好好我們共勉謝謝部長謝謝謝謝珂貞委員還有部長請回座\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1479\t6627\t好我們謝謝主席我們是不是請政部長請政部長\n13779\t38935\t部长早我想明年中央政府的总预算比今年是增加了1100亿但是我们整个教科文文化的支出反而减少了263亿我现在指的是正式别的教育支出当然包括行政院本来要给的还有教育部主管的这个整个降幅可以说是最大大概是比今年度大概就是减少了将近908亿大概降幅是27.7%\n40316\t59305\t当然问过的院长他说当然很多过去应该是中央给的现在就是由地方来给可是这样子的方式像我们我不晓得这个彭书长这个脸现在是以后比较不管事的还是觉得前辈三这么多不太愉快啊138亿国教署最重要的啊我觉得整个才华法的分配不是这个样子的\n59725\t71039\t很多的状况之下由中央该负责的就应该由中央我们举例来说你看我先请教部长这种预算的编排方法这种断崖式的断崖式的一个消减部长你有跟院长反应过吗\n72848\t101784\t他有問過你的意見嗎還是我們教育部就被 都不講話嗎直接被告知嗎沒有 跟委員報告教育部 這個行政院左院長事實上對這個學校的教育部的一個預算事實上是非常的支持委員也可以看到好啦 所以你是同意的是不是還特別為高等教育申請到有200億有 這個沒有問題啦這個有教育部需要什麼錢我們就盡量支持我下次問你院長有沒有問過你啦\n102684\t128708\t这里边当然都有那你有没有问过地方的教育局长我举例来说嘛二到六这个所谓这个我们幼童的一个照顾是总统的政策总统的政策你现在把这个钱放到地方地方会不会把它当作是优先来处理我们都不知道所以我觉得这个部分来说的话应该把它负责的清楚我现在是要帮教育部发声很多的方法不应该是这个样子而且一般性补助款版权\n128848\t139635\t零到六歲國家一起養這個部分我們變成688億但是我們內部還是有600億只是地方承接的那地方政府如果因為不同的財源有不同的方法包括營養午餐沒有辦法用我們國產的這些部分每個地方都不一樣如果不是由中央統一來去做要交給地方地方會因為不同的財源的優先次序不見得會把它放棄這是我所擔心的\n158326\t174481\t所以我才說這種斷崖式的這個方法如果院長沒有好好跟部長溝通部長沒有好好跟地方的教育局處來做溝通的話我擔心這個方法下去的話我們很多孩子的很多的教育經費很多教育的支援因為這樣會變成各縣市都會不一樣\n174821\t198670\t感謝委員提醒確實委員所擔心當時財務法以後我們也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長做這樣的一個討論我們也希望說中央在補助給地方的一般講補助這些裡邊絕對不能夠有任何的打折包含這些教育的東西教育領域的一個機會應該要讓地方這些我們都會時間實在是快太快了我們有太多問題的\n199790\t226099\t所以说部长我相信你的苦心你也相信我们对教育的用心不要把才化法当作是洪水猛射好像什么事情地方如果不做都完全来自于才化法不是这个样子的我觉得不会是这样子的好了教师节前夕我想这个部长你是来自于这个教育出身你应该受到非常多老师给你谈到这个他们很多第一线所担心的一个问题嘛没有错嘛而且你也信誓旦旦说会帮他们解决我们就一来看嘛\n226599\t243332\t这个目前到8月25号的时候我们全国3000多个国中小还有1429个教师缺这是一个事实我觉得我很感叹的你看这个整个部分我们把调列出来很多学校被迫第三招很多是第三招这是明星的学校\n243812\t264123\t那更不要说写片语还有13招而且你现在条件放宽到你完全不需要教师证也没有教育相关背景我很感叹啊以前要拿到这个教师证是多困难以前多少人要来做当当这个老师可是你看现在整个教育环境都非常的不友善一个老师要身兼多职还要被迫朝总点还有呢\n265023\t293862\t部长七成的师培生都要跳船了而且我们最在乎的自然科物理科这些宁可到业界也不要过来说三年后搞不好就是归零你知道吗这个师大通过教警的学生有一半是不当老师的而且我们全国有七万名储备人力有教师证只有三有储备人力然后有三成报考而且通过的人大概可能只有七成的人还不愿意进入我们这个职场\n295383\t309670\t這是個很大的問題啊公文報告我們確實我進來以後也發現了我們在整個產業的一個這一個科技產業的快速發展確實對學校也產生了一定的影響跟衝擊那麼我們過去的工會生\n310490\t328398\t是善居在各大學一個系統一班兩班一班可能只有一個兩個那這個對學校來講真正培養STEM的老師他是沒有辦法權益的不會只有STEM而已我下次告訴你光是以前師培每一次開三班一班五十個現在根本只剩下一班\n328658\t355347\t我要跟委員報告的是我們現在會集中用好我們就來看看你們到底有沒有辦法這些我們都可以來討論還沒有前面最重要是你看嘛我們很多地方不管是幼教的學程或是幼保的科系娶沒人師資都沒有辦法很多學校幼稚園裡面都找不到要教保人員這些都是來自於薪資都是來自於整個環境環境到底有哪些問題部長你應該很清楚我們往下看\n356047\t379941\t有关于这个所谓的教师荒为什么不要你看薪资我刚讲这很现实啊不要告诉我们老师都只有热忱了不啦过去的我们基本工资上涨了230%我们老师呢终点费只有5%到29%这完全不成比例呀环境不好好对老师们比较友善哎以前我妈妈去拆车要拆人家在说她是老师把你送葱送蒜的\n382623\t403324\t其实没有叫你冲散就已经很不错了你看差别这么大来我们往下看然后你看真的是非常的不友善现在里面来说的话很多老师就认为他们完全是处在一些焦虑当中现在我们目前有这个教室的会议里面当中校室会议当中你看平均\n404085\t422720\t学期中平均每个月有125老师被调查你看看处理的结果不成立的34%程序中的30%案件成立的给予解聘的26占全部的2.3%这个比率我相信身为老师我相信我们需要秉公处理\n423120\t439727\t身为家长我也很希望我的学生我的孩子万一发生事情我也很害怕我万一举发万一说我的名字我的孩子被看到我搞不好会做不平等待遇所以家长有他的看法老师也有他的委屈这个平衡点部长你该怎么样来处理啊\n440347\t468049\t跟委員報告我們確實我進來也確實發現這一個問題我們現在檢討整個流程裡面現在是只要指控不管具名或者不具名全部都進入到校試會議這就是家長願意老師覺得我都要進入校試會議以前的教評會因為以前教評會的時候大家就是關關相護很多人認為關關相護可是你全部進到這個校試會議的當中的話你的程序你講話你申請\n469569\t495514\t零元你办一个案子要十万很多老师在这么多当中他们会觉得我要花时间在这个地方我们都一样的看到了问题我们希望分流在前面只有真正不试任教师当时校师会本来是处理不试任教师其他老师的班当然可是你看到这个结果嘛我只是要提醒这整个会议的流程的公平整个公开还有不要给老师太多的负担\n496574\t517045\t這些都是很需要的要從流程裡面就先分流了是但是你這個分流的過程當中大多這就是老師反映的這都是老師所反映的他們在這個過程當中他們會覺得對所以你必須要是具名然後裡面有很多的保證金的方法很多的方式你都要來做處理我們的案例26個後來不去認的這些都是具名的\n521828\t535822\t还有部长你也听过了很多行政减量已经讲了很多了你对于流程paperwork的减量我给你肯定了那的确是减少非常多的一个负担这个没有问题但是我也觉得教育部创意无限的斑斑有牛奶\n536443\t560929\t好给孩子有这个营养没有问题老师要来做调查有没有大陆居住证这个部分呢一个学校填五次到七次好了你的校园爱心球你还要叫老师去盘点全国中小学的器具开放还有呢第七堂课部长你们告诉我说第七堂课老师可以弹性处理问题是你们教育的奖励的部分你就看第七堂课有没有啊每次都说你们可以弹性处理\n561269\t587271\t就你们奖励办法里面把这个当作是你们奖励的其中一个老师敢不敢做所以这些都是你的创意我也相信你这是非常希望学校学生更好可是这些对老师来说都是他们额外的行政负担我刚刚已经讲了薪资没有比别人好动不动可能就会被投诉再加上有这么多的行政我们教育部我没有办法留得住人才吗哪有办法留得住老师\n587771\t608066\t跟委員報告我其實因為委員本身也是心理專業的一個學者我其實心情跟委員是一樣的我們希望青少年有一個更好的一個學習環境而不是每天只是關在教室裡面學歌的學習我當然知道可是這個東西你要如何希望有更蓬勃的社團所以說院長不 部長部長他剛才叫成近邊的院長部長\n612449\t633971\t有了他当过教育学院院长也是可以的所以说部长我们都知道所以你的创意跟老师的行政我觉得这个两者之间的平衡部长你要拿捏住否则我们老师会越来越最后一个你刚刚说身心灵可以啊我们现在都有身心调试家但是你竟然把身心调试家跟试家放在一起这是两个不一样的\n634491\t654367\t你为什么要把它当作事项来计算这个对老师来说对很多人来说是完全觉得我有请没有请还是一样的而且最重要的是你没有考虑到客户排带的这个问题虽然这个钱是由学校来支付但是谁来找代课老师我总不能告诉你我下礼拜会有忧郁症吧\n654867\t678699\t然后我又一直但是我要事先找代课老师啊这问题怎么解决而且这个两个性质完全跟这个市价完全不一样你这么有心要给各位老师有这样的一个调整你也去把它放在这个市价让老师到底要不要请代课老师你没办法解决还有公立学校的教保员可不可以有身心调试私立学校的教保员可不可以有私校老师有没有代理老师有没有\n679519\t689003\t一國多製很多老師身心俱疲他們需要可是你卻在後面卡上一個關卡這對老師來說要請這個假他們也很困難老師他這個請試假他是要致富這個代課會\n695026\t716925\t那我们这一个部分你付钱我知道但是他还是把它变入重点是谁来帮这些老师请代理的老师很多时候我是今天早上我才觉得我心情不好我一定要来请我就拿去找代课老师这个在程序上我们来请学校一定要建立一个自治我讲的都是第一线老师还有自己个人的经验是\n718406\t735043\t部長我們都是同樣背景同樣在這條線上我們應該可以溝通這些的問題我們真的要好好否則我很擔心沒有好的老師沒有好的學生我們老師真的快待不下去了好不好好我們共勉謝謝部長謝謝謝謝珂貞委員還有部長請回座\n","txt":"好我們謝謝主席我們是不是請政部長請政部長\n部长早我想明年中央政府的总预算比今年是增加了1100亿但是我们整个教科文文化的支出反而减少了263亿我现在指的是正式别的教育支出当然包括行政院本来要给的还有教育部主管的这个整个降幅可以说是最大大概是比今年度大概就是减少了将近908亿大概降幅是27.7%\n当然问过的院长他说当然很多过去应该是中央给的现在就是由地方来给可是这样子的方式像我们我不晓得这个彭书长这个脸现在是以后比较不管事的还是觉得前辈三这么多不太愉快啊138亿国教署最重要的啊我觉得整个才华法的分配不是这个样子的\n很多的状况之下由中央该负责的就应该由中央我们举例来说你看我先请教部长这种预算的编排方法这种断崖式的断崖式的一个消减部长你有跟院长反应过吗\n他有問過你的意見嗎還是我們教育部就被 都不講話嗎直接被告知嗎沒有 跟委員報告教育部 這個行政院左院長事實上對這個學校的教育部的一個預算事實上是非常的支持委員也可以看到好啦 所以你是同意的是不是還特別為高等教育申請到有200億有 這個沒有問題啦這個有教育部需要什麼錢我們就盡量支持我下次問你院長有沒有問過你啦\n这里边当然都有那你有没有问过地方的教育局长我举例来说嘛二到六这个所谓这个我们幼童的一个照顾是总统的政策总统的政策你现在把这个钱放到地方地方会不会把它当作是优先来处理我们都不知道所以我觉得这个部分来说的话应该把它负责的清楚我现在是要帮教育部发声很多的方法不应该是这个样子而且一般性补助款版权\n零到六歲國家一起養這個部分我們變成688億但是我們內部還是有600億只是地方承接的那地方政府如果因為不同的財源有不同的方法包括營養午餐沒有辦法用我們國產的這些部分每個地方都不一樣如果不是由中央統一來去做要交給地方地方會因為不同的財源的優先次序不見得會把它放棄這是我所擔心的\n所以我才說這種斷崖式的這個方法如果院長沒有好好跟部長溝通部長沒有好好跟地方的教育局處來做溝通的話我擔心這個方法下去的話我們很多孩子的很多的教育經費很多教育的支援因為這樣會變成各縣市都會不一樣\n感謝委員提醒確實委員所擔心當時財務法以後我們也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長做這樣的一個討論我們也希望說中央在補助給地方的一般講補助這些裡邊絕對不能夠有任何的打折包含這些教育的東西教育領域的一個機會應該要讓地方這些我們都會時間實在是快太快了我們有太多問題的\n所以说部长我相信你的苦心你也相信我们对教育的用心不要把才化法当作是洪水猛射好像什么事情地方如果不做都完全来自于才化法不是这个样子的我觉得不会是这样子的好了教师节前夕我想这个部长你是来自于这个教育出身你应该受到非常多老师给你谈到这个他们很多第一线所担心的一个问题嘛没有错嘛而且你也信誓旦旦说会帮他们解决我们就一来看嘛\n这个目前到8月25号的时候我们全国3000多个国中小还有1429个教师缺这是一个事实我觉得我很感叹的你看这个整个部分我们把调列出来很多学校被迫第三招很多是第三招这是明星的学校\n那更不要说写片语还有13招而且你现在条件放宽到你完全不需要教师证也没有教育相关背景我很感叹啊以前要拿到这个教师证是多困难以前多少人要来做当当这个老师可是你看现在整个教育环境都非常的不友善一个老师要身兼多职还要被迫朝总点还有呢\n部长七成的师培生都要跳船了而且我们最在乎的自然科物理科这些宁可到业界也不要过来说三年后搞不好就是归零你知道吗这个师大通过教警的学生有一半是不当老师的而且我们全国有七万名储备人力有教师证只有三有储备人力然后有三成报考而且通过的人大概可能只有七成的人还不愿意进入我们这个职场\n這是個很大的問題啊公文報告我們確實我進來以後也發現了我們在整個產業的一個這一個科技產業的快速發展確實對學校也產生了一定的影響跟衝擊那麼我們過去的工會生\n是善居在各大學一個系統一班兩班一班可能只有一個兩個那這個對學校來講真正培養STEM的老師他是沒有辦法權益的不會只有STEM而已我下次告訴你光是以前師培每一次開三班一班五十個現在根本只剩下一班\n我要跟委員報告的是我們現在會集中用好我們就來看看你們到底有沒有辦法這些我們都可以來討論還沒有前面最重要是你看嘛我們很多地方不管是幼教的學程或是幼保的科系娶沒人師資都沒有辦法很多學校幼稚園裡面都找不到要教保人員這些都是來自於薪資都是來自於整個環境環境到底有哪些問題部長你應該很清楚我們往下看\n有关于这个所谓的教师荒为什么不要你看薪资我刚讲这很现实啊不要告诉我们老师都只有热忱了不啦过去的我们基本工资上涨了230%我们老师呢终点费只有5%到29%这完全不成比例呀环境不好好对老师们比较友善哎以前我妈妈去拆车要拆人家在说她是老师把你送葱送蒜的\n其实没有叫你冲散就已经很不错了你看差别这么大来我们往下看然后你看真的是非常的不友善现在里面来说的话很多老师就认为他们完全是处在一些焦虑当中现在我们目前有这个教室的会议里面当中校室会议当中你看平均\n学期中平均每个月有125老师被调查你看看处理的结果不成立的34%程序中的30%案件成立的给予解聘的26占全部的2.3%这个比率我相信身为老师我相信我们需要秉公处理\n身为家长我也很希望我的学生我的孩子万一发生事情我也很害怕我万一举发万一说我的名字我的孩子被看到我搞不好会做不平等待遇所以家长有他的看法老师也有他的委屈这个平衡点部长你该怎么样来处理啊\n跟委員報告我們確實我進來也確實發現這一個問題我們現在檢討整個流程裡面現在是只要指控不管具名或者不具名全部都進入到校試會議這就是家長願意老師覺得我都要進入校試會議以前的教評會因為以前教評會的時候大家就是關關相護很多人認為關關相護可是你全部進到這個校試會議的當中的話你的程序你講話你申請\n零元你办一个案子要十万很多老师在这么多当中他们会觉得我要花时间在这个地方我们都一样的看到了问题我们希望分流在前面只有真正不试任教师当时校师会本来是处理不试任教师其他老师的班当然可是你看到这个结果嘛我只是要提醒这整个会议的流程的公平整个公开还有不要给老师太多的负担\n這些都是很需要的要從流程裡面就先分流了是但是你這個分流的過程當中大多這就是老師反映的這都是老師所反映的他們在這個過程當中他們會覺得對所以你必須要是具名然後裡面有很多的保證金的方法很多的方式你都要來做處理我們的案例26個後來不去認的這些都是具名的\n还有部长你也听过了很多行政减量已经讲了很多了你对于流程paperwork的减量我给你肯定了那的确是减少非常多的一个负担这个没有问题但是我也觉得教育部创意无限的斑斑有牛奶\n好给孩子有这个营养没有问题老师要来做调查有没有大陆居住证这个部分呢一个学校填五次到七次好了你的校园爱心球你还要叫老师去盘点全国中小学的器具开放还有呢第七堂课部长你们告诉我说第七堂课老师可以弹性处理问题是你们教育的奖励的部分你就看第七堂课有没有啊每次都说你们可以弹性处理\n就你们奖励办法里面把这个当作是你们奖励的其中一个老师敢不敢做所以这些都是你的创意我也相信你这是非常希望学校学生更好可是这些对老师来说都是他们额外的行政负担我刚刚已经讲了薪资没有比别人好动不动可能就会被投诉再加上有这么多的行政我们教育部我没有办法留得住人才吗哪有办法留得住老师\n跟委員報告我其實因為委員本身也是心理專業的一個學者我其實心情跟委員是一樣的我們希望青少年有一個更好的一個學習環境而不是每天只是關在教室裡面學歌的學習我當然知道可是這個東西你要如何希望有更蓬勃的社團所以說院長不 部長部長他剛才叫成近邊的院長部長\n有了他当过教育学院院长也是可以的所以说部长我们都知道所以你的创意跟老师的行政我觉得这个两者之间的平衡部长你要拿捏住否则我们老师会越来越最后一个你刚刚说身心灵可以啊我们现在都有身心调试家但是你竟然把身心调试家跟试家放在一起这是两个不一样的\n你为什么要把它当作事项来计算这个对老师来说对很多人来说是完全觉得我有请没有请还是一样的而且最重要的是你没有考虑到客户排带的这个问题虽然这个钱是由学校来支付但是谁来找代课老师我总不能告诉你我下礼拜会有忧郁症吧\n然后我又一直但是我要事先找代课老师啊这问题怎么解决而且这个两个性质完全跟这个市价完全不一样你这么有心要给各位老师有这样的一个调整你也去把它放在这个市价让老师到底要不要请代课老师你没办法解决还有公立学校的教保员可不可以有身心调试私立学校的教保员可不可以有私校老师有没有代理老师有没有\n一國多製很多老師身心俱疲他們需要可是你卻在後面卡上一個關卡這對老師來說要請這個假他們也很困難老師他這個請試假他是要致富這個代課會\n那我们这一个部分你付钱我知道但是他还是把它变入重点是谁来帮这些老师请代理的老师很多时候我是今天早上我才觉得我心情不好我一定要来请我就拿去找代课老师这个在程序上我们来请学校一定要建立一个自治我讲的都是第一线老师还有自己个人的经验是\n部長我們都是同樣背景同樣在這條線上我們應該可以溝通這些的問題我們真的要好好否則我很擔心沒有好的老師沒有好的學生我們老師真的快待不下去了好不好好我們共勉謝謝部長謝謝謝謝珂貞委員還有部長請回座\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.479 --> 00:06.627\n好我們謝謝主席我們是不是請政部長請政部長\n\n00:13.779 --> 00:38.935\n部长早我想明年中央政府的总预算比今年是增加了1100亿但是我们整个教科文文化的支出反而减少了263亿我现在指的是正式别的教育支出当然包括行政院本来要给的还有教育部主管的这个整个降幅可以说是最大大概是比今年度大概就是减少了将近908亿大概降幅是27.7%\n\n00:40.316 --> 00:59.305\n当然问过的院长他说当然很多过去应该是中央给的现在就是由地方来给可是这样子的方式像我们我不晓得这个彭书长这个脸现在是以后比较不管事的还是觉得前辈三这么多不太愉快啊138亿国教署最重要的啊我觉得整个才华法的分配不是这个样子的\n\n00:59.725 --> 01:11.039\n很多的状况之下由中央该负责的就应该由中央我们举例来说你看我先请教部长这种预算的编排方法这种断崖式的断崖式的一个消减部长你有跟院长反应过吗\n\n01:12.848 --> 01:41.784\n他有問過你的意見嗎還是我們教育部就被都不講話嗎直接被告知嗎沒有跟委員報告教育部這個行政院左院長事實上對這個學校的教育部的一個預算事實上是非常的支持委員也可以看到好啦所以你是同意的是不是還特別為高等教育申請到有200億有這個沒有問題啦這個有教育部需要什麼錢我們就盡量支持我下次問你院長有沒有問過你啦\n\n01:42.684 --> 02:08.708\n这里边当然都有那你有没有问过地方的教育局长我举例来说嘛二到六这个所谓这个我们幼童的一个照顾是总统的政策总统的政策你现在把这个钱放到地方地方会不会把它当作是优先来处理我们都不知道所以我觉得这个部分来说的话应该把它负责的清楚我现在是要帮教育部发声很多的方法不应该是这个样子而且一般性补助款版权\n\n02:08.848 --> 02:19.635\n零到六歲國家一起養這個部分我們變成688億但是我們內部還是有600億只是地方承接的那地方政府如果因為不同的財源有不同的方法包括營養午餐沒有辦法用我們國產的這些部分每個地方都不一樣如果不是由中央統一來去做要交給地方地方會因為不同的財源的優先次序不見得會把它放棄這是我所擔心的\n\n02:38.326 --> 02:54.481\n所以我才說這種斷崖式的這個方法如果院長沒有好好跟部長溝通部長沒有好好跟地方的教育局處來做溝通的話我擔心這個方法下去的話我們很多孩子的很多的教育經費很多教育的支援因為這樣會變成各縣市都會不一樣\n\n02:54.821 --> 03:18.670\n感謝委員提醒確實委員所擔心當時財務法以後我們也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長做這樣的一個討論我們也希望說中央在補助給地方的一般講補助這些裡邊絕對不能夠有任何的打折包含這些教育的東西教育領域的一個機會應該要讓地方這些我們都會時間實在是快太快了我們有太多問題的\n\n03:19.790 --> 03:46.099\n所以说部长我相信你的苦心你也相信我们对教育的用心不要把才化法当作是洪水猛射好像什么事情地方如果不做都完全来自于才化法不是这个样子的我觉得不会是这样子的好了教师节前夕我想这个部长你是来自于这个教育出身你应该受到非常多老师给你谈到这个他们很多第一线所担心的一个问题嘛没有错嘛而且你也信誓旦旦说会帮他们解决我们就一来看嘛\n\n03:46.599 --> 04:03.332\n这个目前到8月25号的时候我们全国3000多个国中小还有1429个教师缺这是一个事实我觉得我很感叹的你看这个整个部分我们把调列出来很多学校被迫第三招很多是第三招这是明星的学校\n\n04:03.812 --> 04:24.123\n那更不要说写片语还有13招而且你现在条件放宽到你完全不需要教师证也没有教育相关背景我很感叹啊以前要拿到这个教师证是多困难以前多少人要来做当当这个老师可是你看现在整个教育环境都非常的不友善一个老师要身兼多职还要被迫朝总点还有呢\n\n04:25.023 --> 04:53.862\n部长七成的师培生都要跳船了而且我们最在乎的自然科物理科这些宁可到业界也不要过来说三年后搞不好就是归零你知道吗这个师大通过教警的学生有一半是不当老师的而且我们全国有七万名储备人力有教师证只有三有储备人力然后有三成报考而且通过的人大概可能只有七成的人还不愿意进入我们这个职场\n\n04:55.383 --> 05:09.670\n這是個很大的問題啊公文報告我們確實我進來以後也發現了我們在整個產業的一個這一個科技產業的快速發展確實對學校也產生了一定的影響跟衝擊那麼我們過去的工會生\n\n05:10.490 --> 05:28.398\n是善居在各大學一個系統一班兩班一班可能只有一個兩個那這個對學校來講真正培養STEM的老師他是沒有辦法權益的不會只有STEM而已我下次告訴你光是以前師培每一次開三班一班五十個現在根本只剩下一班\n\n05:28.658 --> 05:55.347\n我要跟委員報告的是我們現在會集中用好我們就來看看你們到底有沒有辦法這些我們都可以來討論還沒有前面最重要是你看嘛我們很多地方不管是幼教的學程或是幼保的科系娶沒人師資都沒有辦法很多學校幼稚園裡面都找不到要教保人員這些都是來自於薪資都是來自於整個環境環境到底有哪些問題部長你應該很清楚我們往下看\n\n05:56.047 --> 06:19.941\n有关于这个所谓的教师荒为什么不要你看薪资我刚讲这很现实啊不要告诉我们老师都只有热忱了不啦过去的我们基本工资上涨了230%我们老师呢终点费只有5%到29%这完全不成比例呀环境不好好对老师们比较友善哎以前我妈妈去拆车要拆人家在说她是老师把你送葱送蒜的\n\n06:22.623 --> 06:43.324\n其实没有叫你冲散就已经很不错了你看差别这么大来我们往下看然后你看真的是非常的不友善现在里面来说的话很多老师就认为他们完全是处在一些焦虑当中现在我们目前有这个教室的会议里面当中校室会议当中你看平均\n\n06:44.085 --> 07:02.720\n学期中平均每个月有125老师被调查你看看处理的结果不成立的34%程序中的30%案件成立的给予解聘的26占全部的2.3%这个比率我相信身为老师我相信我们需要秉公处理\n\n07:03.120 --> 07:19.727\n身为家长我也很希望我的学生我的孩子万一发生事情我也很害怕我万一举发万一说我的名字我的孩子被看到我搞不好会做不平等待遇所以家长有他的看法老师也有他的委屈这个平衡点部长你该怎么样来处理啊\n\n07:20.347 --> 07:48.049\n跟委員報告我們確實我進來也確實發現這一個問題我們現在檢討整個流程裡面現在是只要指控不管具名或者不具名全部都進入到校試會議這就是家長願意老師覺得我都要進入校試會議以前的教評會因為以前教評會的時候大家就是關關相護很多人認為關關相護可是你全部進到這個校試會議的當中的話你的程序你講話你申請\n\n07:49.569 --> 08:15.514\n零元你办一个案子要十万很多老师在这么多当中他们会觉得我要花时间在这个地方我们都一样的看到了问题我们希望分流在前面只有真正不试任教师当时校师会本来是处理不试任教师其他老师的班当然可是你看到这个结果嘛我只是要提醒这整个会议的流程的公平整个公开还有不要给老师太多的负担\n\n08:16.574 --> 08:37.045\n這些都是很需要的要從流程裡面就先分流了是但是你這個分流的過程當中大多這就是老師反映的這都是老師所反映的他們在這個過程當中他們會覺得對所以你必須要是具名然後裡面有很多的保證金的方法很多的方式你都要來做處理我們的案例26個後來不去認的這些都是具名的\n\n08:41.828 --> 08:55.822\n还有部长你也听过了很多行政减量已经讲了很多了你对于流程paperwork的减量我给你肯定了那的确是减少非常多的一个负担这个没有问题但是我也觉得教育部创意无限的斑斑有牛奶\n\n08:56.443 --> 09:20.929\n好给孩子有这个营养没有问题老师要来做调查有没有大陆居住证这个部分呢一个学校填五次到七次好了你的校园爱心球你还要叫老师去盘点全国中小学的器具开放还有呢第七堂课部长你们告诉我说第七堂课老师可以弹性处理问题是你们教育的奖励的部分你就看第七堂课有没有啊每次都说你们可以弹性处理\n\n09:21.269 --> 09:47.271\n就你们奖励办法里面把这个当作是你们奖励的其中一个老师敢不敢做所以这些都是你的创意我也相信你这是非常希望学校学生更好可是这些对老师来说都是他们额外的行政负担我刚刚已经讲了薪资没有比别人好动不动可能就会被投诉再加上有这么多的行政我们教育部我没有办法留得住人才吗哪有办法留得住老师\n\n09:47.771 --> 10:08.066\n跟委員報告我其實因為委員本身也是心理專業的一個學者我其實心情跟委員是一樣的我們希望青少年有一個更好的一個學習環境而不是每天只是關在教室裡面學歌的學習我當然知道可是這個東西你要如何希望有更蓬勃的社團所以說院長不部長部長他剛才叫成近邊的院長部長\n\n10:12.449 --> 10:33.971\n有了他当过教育学院院长也是可以的所以说部长我们都知道所以你的创意跟老师的行政我觉得这个两者之间的平衡部长你要拿捏住否则我们老师会越来越最后一个你刚刚说身心灵可以啊我们现在都有身心调试家但是你竟然把身心调试家跟试家放在一起这是两个不一样的\n\n10:34.491 --> 10:54.367\n你为什么要把它当作事项来计算这个对老师来说对很多人来说是完全觉得我有请没有请还是一样的而且最重要的是你没有考虑到客户排带的这个问题虽然这个钱是由学校来支付但是谁来找代课老师我总不能告诉你我下礼拜会有忧郁症吧\n\n10:54.867 --> 11:18.699\n然后我又一直但是我要事先找代课老师啊这问题怎么解决而且这个两个性质完全跟这个市价完全不一样你这么有心要给各位老师有这样的一个调整你也去把它放在这个市价让老师到底要不要请代课老师你没办法解决还有公立学校的教保员可不可以有身心调试私立学校的教保员可不可以有私校老师有没有代理老师有没有\n\n11:19.519 --> 11:29.003\n一國多製很多老師身心俱疲他們需要可是你卻在後面卡上一個關卡這對老師來說要請這個假他們也很困難老師他這個請試假他是要致富這個代課會\n\n11:35.026 --> 11:56.925\n那我们这一个部分你付钱我知道但是他还是把它变入重点是谁来帮这些老师请代理的老师很多时候我是今天早上我才觉得我心情不好我一定要来请我就拿去找代课老师这个在程序上我们来请学校一定要建立一个自治我讲的都是第一线老师还有自己个人的经验是\n\n11:58.406 --> 12:15.043\n部長我們都是同樣背景同樣在這條線上我們應該可以溝通這些的問題我們真的要好好否則我很擔心沒有好的老師沒有好的學生我們老師真的快待不下去了好不好好我們共勉謝謝部長謝謝謝謝珂貞委員還有部長請回座\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.479,"end":6.627,"text":"好我們謝謝主席我們是不是請政部長請政部長"},{"start":13.779,"end":38.935,"text":"部长早我想明年中央政府的总预算比今年是增加了1100亿但是我们整个教科文文化的支出反而减少了263亿我现在指的是正式别的教育支出当然包括行政院本来要给的还有教育部主管的这个整个降幅可以说是最大大概是比今年度大概就是减少了将近908亿大概降幅是27.7%"},{"start":40.316,"end":59.305,"text":"当然问过的院长他说当然很多过去应该是中央给的现在就是由地方来给可是这样子的方式像我们我不晓得这个彭书长这个脸现在是以后比较不管事的还是觉得前辈三这么多不太愉快啊138亿国教署最重要的啊我觉得整个才华法的分配不是这个样子的"},{"start":59.725,"end":71.039,"text":"很多的状况之下由中央该负责的就应该由中央我们举例来说你看我先请教部长这种预算的编排方法这种断崖式的断崖式的一个消减部长你有跟院长反应过吗"},{"start":72.848,"end":101.784,"text":"他有問過你的意見嗎還是我們教育部就被 都不講話嗎直接被告知嗎沒有 跟委員報告教育部 這個行政院左院長事實上對這個學校的教育部的一個預算事實上是非常的支持委員也可以看到好啦 所以你是同意的是不是還特別為高等教育申請到有200億有 這個沒有問題啦這個有教育部需要什麼錢我們就盡量支持我下次問你院長有沒有問過你啦"},{"start":102.684,"end":128.708,"text":"这里边当然都有那你有没有问过地方的教育局长我举例来说嘛二到六这个所谓这个我们幼童的一个照顾是总统的政策总统的政策你现在把这个钱放到地方地方会不会把它当作是优先来处理我们都不知道所以我觉得这个部分来说的话应该把它负责的清楚我现在是要帮教育部发声很多的方法不应该是这个样子而且一般性补助款版权"},{"start":128.848,"end":139.635,"text":"零到六歲國家一起養這個部分我們變成688億但是我們內部還是有600億只是地方承接的那地方政府如果因為不同的財源有不同的方法包括營養午餐沒有辦法用我們國產的這些部分每個地方都不一樣如果不是由中央統一來去做要交給地方地方會因為不同的財源的優先次序不見得會把它放棄這是我所擔心的"},{"start":158.326,"end":174.481,"text":"所以我才說這種斷崖式的這個方法如果院長沒有好好跟部長溝通部長沒有好好跟地方的教育局處來做溝通的話我擔心這個方法下去的話我們很多孩子的很多的教育經費很多教育的支援因為這樣會變成各縣市都會不一樣"},{"start":174.821,"end":198.67,"text":"感謝委員提醒確實委員所擔心當時財務法以後我們也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長做這樣的一個討論我們也希望說中央在補助給地方的一般講補助這些裡邊絕對不能夠有任何的打折包含這些教育的東西教育領域的一個機會應該要讓地方這些我們都會時間實在是快太快了我們有太多問題的"},{"start":199.79,"end":226.099,"text":"所以说部长我相信你的苦心你也相信我们对教育的用心不要把才化法当作是洪水猛射好像什么事情地方如果不做都完全来自于才化法不是这个样子的我觉得不会是这样子的好了教师节前夕我想这个部长你是来自于这个教育出身你应该受到非常多老师给你谈到这个他们很多第一线所担心的一个问题嘛没有错嘛而且你也信誓旦旦说会帮他们解决我们就一来看嘛"},{"start":226.599,"end":243.332,"text":"这个目前到8月25号的时候我们全国3000多个国中小还有1429个教师缺这是一个事实我觉得我很感叹的你看这个整个部分我们把调列出来很多学校被迫第三招很多是第三招这是明星的学校"},{"start":243.812,"end":264.123,"text":"那更不要说写片语还有13招而且你现在条件放宽到你完全不需要教师证也没有教育相关背景我很感叹啊以前要拿到这个教师证是多困难以前多少人要来做当当这个老师可是你看现在整个教育环境都非常的不友善一个老师要身兼多职还要被迫朝总点还有呢"},{"start":265.023,"end":293.862,"text":"部长七成的师培生都要跳船了而且我们最在乎的自然科物理科这些宁可到业界也不要过来说三年后搞不好就是归零你知道吗这个师大通过教警的学生有一半是不当老师的而且我们全国有七万名储备人力有教师证只有三有储备人力然后有三成报考而且通过的人大概可能只有七成的人还不愿意进入我们这个职场"},{"start":295.383,"end":309.67,"text":"這是個很大的問題啊公文報告我們確實我進來以後也發現了我們在整個產業的一個這一個科技產業的快速發展確實對學校也產生了一定的影響跟衝擊那麼我們過去的工會生"},{"start":310.49,"end":328.398,"text":"是善居在各大學一個系統一班兩班一班可能只有一個兩個那這個對學校來講真正培養STEM的老師他是沒有辦法權益的不會只有STEM而已我下次告訴你光是以前師培每一次開三班一班五十個現在根本只剩下一班"},{"start":328.658,"end":355.347,"text":"我要跟委員報告的是我們現在會集中用好我們就來看看你們到底有沒有辦法這些我們都可以來討論還沒有前面最重要是你看嘛我們很多地方不管是幼教的學程或是幼保的科系娶沒人師資都沒有辦法很多學校幼稚園裡面都找不到要教保人員這些都是來自於薪資都是來自於整個環境環境到底有哪些問題部長你應該很清楚我們往下看"},{"start":356.047,"end":379.941,"text":"有关于这个所谓的教师荒为什么不要你看薪资我刚讲这很现实啊不要告诉我们老师都只有热忱了不啦过去的我们基本工资上涨了230%我们老师呢终点费只有5%到29%这完全不成比例呀环境不好好对老师们比较友善哎以前我妈妈去拆车要拆人家在说她是老师把你送葱送蒜的"},{"start":382.623,"end":403.324,"text":"其实没有叫你冲散就已经很不错了你看差别这么大来我们往下看然后你看真的是非常的不友善现在里面来说的话很多老师就认为他们完全是处在一些焦虑当中现在我们目前有这个教室的会议里面当中校室会议当中你看平均"},{"start":404.085,"end":422.72,"text":"学期中平均每个月有125老师被调查你看看处理的结果不成立的34%程序中的30%案件成立的给予解聘的26占全部的2.3%这个比率我相信身为老师我相信我们需要秉公处理"},{"start":423.12,"end":439.727,"text":"身为家长我也很希望我的学生我的孩子万一发生事情我也很害怕我万一举发万一说我的名字我的孩子被看到我搞不好会做不平等待遇所以家长有他的看法老师也有他的委屈这个平衡点部长你该怎么样来处理啊"},{"start":440.347,"end":468.049,"text":"跟委員報告我們確實我進來也確實發現這一個問題我們現在檢討整個流程裡面現在是只要指控不管具名或者不具名全部都進入到校試會議這就是家長願意老師覺得我都要進入校試會議以前的教評會因為以前教評會的時候大家就是關關相護很多人認為關關相護可是你全部進到這個校試會議的當中的話你的程序你講話你申請"},{"start":469.569,"end":495.514,"text":"零元你办一个案子要十万很多老师在这么多当中他们会觉得我要花时间在这个地方我们都一样的看到了问题我们希望分流在前面只有真正不试任教师当时校师会本来是处理不试任教师其他老师的班当然可是你看到这个结果嘛我只是要提醒这整个会议的流程的公平整个公开还有不要给老师太多的负担"},{"start":496.574,"end":517.045,"text":"這些都是很需要的要從流程裡面就先分流了是但是你這個分流的過程當中大多這就是老師反映的這都是老師所反映的他們在這個過程當中他們會覺得對所以你必須要是具名然後裡面有很多的保證金的方法很多的方式你都要來做處理我們的案例26個後來不去認的這些都是具名的"},{"start":521.828,"end":535.822,"text":"还有部长你也听过了很多行政减量已经讲了很多了你对于流程paperwork的减量我给你肯定了那的确是减少非常多的一个负担这个没有问题但是我也觉得教育部创意无限的斑斑有牛奶"},{"start":536.443,"end":560.929,"text":"好给孩子有这个营养没有问题老师要来做调查有没有大陆居住证这个部分呢一个学校填五次到七次好了你的校园爱心球你还要叫老师去盘点全国中小学的器具开放还有呢第七堂课部长你们告诉我说第七堂课老师可以弹性处理问题是你们教育的奖励的部分你就看第七堂课有没有啊每次都说你们可以弹性处理"},{"start":561.269,"end":587.271,"text":"就你们奖励办法里面把这个当作是你们奖励的其中一个老师敢不敢做所以这些都是你的创意我也相信你这是非常希望学校学生更好可是这些对老师来说都是他们额外的行政负担我刚刚已经讲了薪资没有比别人好动不动可能就会被投诉再加上有这么多的行政我们教育部我没有办法留得住人才吗哪有办法留得住老师"},{"start":587.771,"end":608.066,"text":"跟委員報告我其實因為委員本身也是心理專業的一個學者我其實心情跟委員是一樣的我們希望青少年有一個更好的一個學習環境而不是每天只是關在教室裡面學歌的學習我當然知道可是這個東西你要如何希望有更蓬勃的社團所以說院長不 部長部長他剛才叫成近邊的院長部長"},{"start":612.449,"end":633.971,"text":"有了他当过教育学院院长也是可以的所以说部长我们都知道所以你的创意跟老师的行政我觉得这个两者之间的平衡部长你要拿捏住否则我们老师会越来越最后一个你刚刚说身心灵可以啊我们现在都有身心调试家但是你竟然把身心调试家跟试家放在一起这是两个不一样的"},{"start":634.491,"end":654.367,"text":"你为什么要把它当作事项来计算这个对老师来说对很多人来说是完全觉得我有请没有请还是一样的而且最重要的是你没有考虑到客户排带的这个问题虽然这个钱是由学校来支付但是谁来找代课老师我总不能告诉你我下礼拜会有忧郁症吧"},{"start":654.867,"end":678.699,"text":"然后我又一直但是我要事先找代课老师啊这问题怎么解决而且这个两个性质完全跟这个市价完全不一样你这么有心要给各位老师有这样的一个调整你也去把它放在这个市价让老师到底要不要请代课老师你没办法解决还有公立学校的教保员可不可以有身心调试私立学校的教保员可不可以有私校老师有没有代理老师有没有"},{"start":679.519,"end":689.003,"text":"一國多製很多老師身心俱疲他們需要可是你卻在後面卡上一個關卡這對老師來說要請這個假他們也很困難老師他這個請試假他是要致富這個代課會"},{"start":695.026,"end":716.925,"text":"那我们这一个部分你付钱我知道但是他还是把它变入重点是谁来帮这些老师请代理的老师很多时候我是今天早上我才觉得我心情不好我一定要来请我就拿去找代课老师这个在程序上我们来请学校一定要建立一个自治我讲的都是第一线老师还有自己个人的经验是"},{"start":718.406,"end":735.043,"text":"部長我們都是同樣背景同樣在這條線上我們應該可以溝通這些的問題我們真的要好好否則我很擔心沒有好的老師沒有好的學生我們老師真的快待不下去了好不好好我們共勉謝謝部長謝謝謝謝珂貞委員還有部長請回座"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":64,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（9時20分）謝謝主席，我們是不是請鄭部長？"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員早。"],["柯委員志恩：部長早。明年中央政府的總預算比今年增加了1,100億，但是整個教科文化的支出反而減少了263億，我現在指的是政事別的教育支出，當然包括行政院本來要給的，還有教育部主管的，整個降幅可以說是最大，大概是比今年度減少將近908億，降幅是27.7%，問了院長，他說很多過去應該是中央給的，現在就是由地方來給。可是這樣子的方式，我不曉得彭署長是以後比較不管事了，還是覺得錢被刪這麼多，不太愉快？國教署最重要的預算138億，我覺得整個財劃法的分配不是這個樣子的，很多的狀況之下，中央該負責的就應該由中央負責。我先請教部長，這種預算的編排方法、這種斷崖式的削減，你有跟院長反映過嗎？他有問過你的意見嗎？還是教育部就被當作「細漢」，都不講話，直接被告知嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，跟委員報告，行政院卓院長對學校教育、對教育部的預算，事實上是非常支持的，委員也可以看到，在這次特別預算……"],["柯委員志恩：好啦！所以你是同意的，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們還特別為高等教育爭取到200億……"],["柯委員志恩：有，這個沒有問題啦！教育部需要什麼錢，我們都是儘量支持，我現在只問你，院長有沒有問過你？"],["鄭部長英耀：這裡邊當然都有……"],["柯委員志恩：那你有沒有問過地方的教育局長？舉例來說，2到6歲的所謂幼童照顧，這是總統的政策，你現在把錢放到地方，地方會不會把它當作優先來處理，我們都不知道，所以我覺得這個部分的責任應該釐清楚，我現在是在幫教育部發聲，很多方法不應該是這個樣子，而且一般性補助款本來就不應該刪減。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。跟委員報告，剛才那個0到6歲國家一起養的部分，我們編了688億……"],["柯委員志恩：你放到地方去啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：但我們內部還是有600億，只是地方承接的部分是88億，大概是這樣。"],["柯委員志恩：承接的，可是地方政府因為有不同的財源，就有不同的方法，包括營養午餐可能沒有辦法用國產食材等，導致每個地方都不一樣，如果不是由中央統一來做，而是交給地方，地方會因為不同財源的優先次序，不見得會把資源放在這裡，這是我所擔心的。"],["鄭部長英耀：是的。"],["柯委員志恩：所以我才說這種斷崖式的方法，如果院長沒有好好跟部長溝通，部長沒有好好跟地方的教育局處溝通，我擔心這個方法執行下去，很多孩子的教育經費、教育資源，會因為這樣而變成各縣市都不一樣。"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員提醒，確實委員所擔心的，當時財劃法以後，我們也跟22個縣市的教育局處首長做過討論，也希望中央在補助給地方的一般獎補助……"],["柯委員志恩：絕對不能夠有任何的打折。"],["鄭部長英耀：包含教育領域的經費，都應該要讓地方……"],["柯委員志恩：這些我們都會。時間實在是太快了，我還有太多問題要問。部長，我相信你的苦心，也相信你對教育的用心，但不要把財劃法當作是洪水猛獸，好像什麼事情如果地方不做，都完全是因為財劃法，不是這個樣子。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們中央跟地方是合作的。"],["柯委員志恩：我覺得不會是這個樣子。好，部長來自於教育界，在教師節前夕，應該收到非常多老師跟你談到他們在第一線所擔心的問題，沒有錯吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["柯委員志恩：而且你也信誓旦旦表示會幫他們解決，我們就一一來看。截至8月25號的統計，全國三千多所國中小還有1,429個教師缺，這是一個事實，我覺得很感嘆，你看！整個部分我都把它條列出來，很多學校被迫開出第三招，包括明星學校，更不要說偏遠學校還有十三招的，而且現在條件放寬到完全不需要教師證，也沒有教育相關背景，我很感嘆啊！以前要拿到教師證是多困難，多少人想要來當老師，可是現在整個教育環境都非常不友善，一個老師要身兼多職，還要被迫超鐘點，部長，七成的師培生都要跳船了，而且我們最在乎的自然科、物理科等，年輕人寧可到業界也不要進來，所以三年後搞不好就歸零。你知道嗎？師大通過教檢的學生有一半是不當老師的；目前全國有7萬名有教師證的儲備人力，但只有三成報考；有高達七成經過師培取得教師證的人，不願意進入我們這個職場，這要怎麼辦？這是很大的問題耶！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，在我進來以後，也發現在科技產業快速發展下，確實對學校也產生一定的影響跟衝擊，過去我們的公費生散居在各大學……"],["柯委員志恩：我知道啦！我現在告訴你……"],["鄭部長英耀：一個系所一班、兩班，而一班可能只有一個、兩個，這對學校來講，真正培養STEM的老師，是沒有辦法……"],["柯委員志恩：不會只有STEM而已，我現在是告訴你，以前光是師培班開班，每一次都開三班，一班50個，現在根本只剩下一班，還招不滿。"],["鄭部長英耀：我要跟委員報告的是，我們現在會集中用……"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們就來看看你到底有沒有辦法，這些我們都可以討論。最重要的是，有很多地方，不管是幼教學程或幼教專班，都因招生不足無法開班，導致很多學校、幼稚園都找不到師資，只能用教保人員，問題都來自於薪資、來自於整個環境。環境到底有哪些問題？部長，你應該很清楚，所謂的教師荒，為什麼年輕人不願意從事教職？我們來看剛剛我講的薪資問題，這個就很現實，不要告訴我老師都有熱忱，沒有啦！過去我們的基本工資上漲了230%，但老師的鐘點費只調升5%到29%，完全不成比例。在教育環境部分，對老師們有沒有比較友善？以前我媽媽去菜市場買菜，人家如果知道他是老師，就會送蔥、送蒜，現在沒有叫你「蔥蒜」就已經很不錯了！你看，差別這麼大，真的非常不友善，現在很多老師認為他們完全是處在焦慮當中。以校事會議執行情形來看，學期中平均每月有125個老師被調查，而處理的結果，不成立的占34%，程序中的占30%，案件成立且予以解聘的有26位，占全部的2.3%。身為老師，我相信我們需要秉公處理，身為家長，我也很害怕萬一我的孩子發生事情，在舉發時如果說出名字，我的孩子會被看到，搞不好就會受到不平等待遇，所以家長有他的看法，老師也有他的委屈，這樣的平衡點，部長，你該怎麼處理？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實我進來也發現這個問題，我們現在是檢討整個流程，現在只要有指控，不管具名或者不具名，全部都進入到校事會議，我們希望……"],["柯委員志恩：這就是家長願意，但老師覺得不要進入校事會議。以前的教評會，大家會覺得是官官相護，但現在全部進到校事會議，在程序上，講話、申請是零元，可是辦一個案子就要10萬元，很多老師也覺得要花時間在這個地方……"],["鄭部長英耀：委員看到了問題，我們也一樣看到了問題，所以希望可以在前面分流，當時校事會議本來就是在處理不適任教師，其他老師的班級……"],["柯委員志恩：當然，可是你看到這個結果嘛！我只是要提醒整個會議流程要公平、公開，包括不要給老師太多負擔，這些都是很需要的。"],["鄭部長英耀：這部分教育部已經有檢討，在流程上要先分流。"],["柯委員志恩：是，但在分流的過程當中，這些都是老師反映的，他們認為在這個過程當中，他們會……"],["鄭部長英耀：然後對於不具名的濫訴、指控，我們也都不予處理。"],["柯委員志恩：對，所以必須要具名，然後裡面包括保證金的很多方法，你也都要處理……"],["鄭部長英耀：案例中26個後來不續任的部分，都是具名投訴的。"],["柯委員志恩：好，還有，部長應該也聽過行政減量，這大家已經講很多了，對於流程中paperwork的減量，我給你肯定，的確減少非常多老師的負擔，這沒有問題，但是我覺得教育部也是創意無限，「班班有牛奶」，好，為了給孩子營養，沒有問題，由老師來做；「調查有無大陸居住證」，這個部分一個學校要填5到7次；還有「校園愛心球」，限期叫老師盤點全國中小學的球具器材，開放借用；另外還有第七堂課，部長，你們告訴我說第七堂課老師可以彈性處理，問題是你們的教育獎勵部分，就是看有沒有第七堂課啊！每次都說可以彈性處理，結果你們的獎勵辦法，就把這個當作是獎勵的其中一項，老師敢不做嗎？這些都是你們的創意，我也相信你是非常希望讓學校、學生更好，可是對老師來說，這些都是他們額外的行政負擔，我剛剛已經講了，薪資沒有比別人好，動不動可能會被投訴，再加上有這麼多行政工作，教育部有沒有辦法留得住人才？哪有辦法留得住老師！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，因為委員本身也是心理專業的學者，其實我的心情跟委員一樣，我們希望青少年有一個更好的學習環境，而不是每天只是關在教室裡做學科上的學習……"],["柯委員志恩：我當然知道，可是這個東西你要如何……"],["鄭部長英耀：所以才希望有更蓬勃的……"],["柯委員志恩：好，所以說院長……不，是部長、部長，叫太快，變院長，有啦！你也當過教育學院院長，也是可以的啦！所以部長，你的創意跟老師的行政工作，我覺得兩者之間的平衡，你要拿捏住，否則老師們會越來越……","最後一個，你剛剛說身心靈，可以啊！我們現在都有身心調適假，但是你竟然把身心調適假跟事假放在一起，這是兩個不一樣的假，為什麼要把它視為事假計算？這個對老師來說、對很多人來說，會覺得有請跟沒有請是一樣的，更重要的是，你沒有考慮到課務派代的問題，雖然這個錢是由學校支付，但是誰來找代課老師？欸！我總不能告訴你我下禮拜會有憂鬱症，然後要事先找代課老師，這問題要怎麼解決？而且這性質跟事假完全不一樣，你這麼有心要給各位老師有這樣的調整，卻又把它和事假放在一起，老師到底要不要請？代課老師也沒有辦法解決。還有公立學校的教保員可不可以有身心調適？私立學校的教保員可不可以有？私校老師有沒有？代課老師有沒有？一國多制，很多老師身心俱疲，他們需要，可是你卻在後面卡上一個關卡，這對老師來說，要請這個假他們也很困難耶！"],["鄭部長英耀：老師請事假是要自付代課費，我們這一個部分……"],["柯委員志恩：你付錢，我知道，但是還是把它併入，重點是誰來幫這些老師請代理的老師？很多時候我是今天早上才覺得心情不好，我一定要請，我要去哪裡找代課老師啊？這誰來處理？"],["鄭部長英耀：在程序上我們請學校一定要建立一個機制。"],["柯委員志恩：當然，我講的都是第一線的老師，還有我自己個人的經驗。部長，我們都是同樣背景，同樣站在一條線上，我們應該可以溝通，這些問題我們真的要好好……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們在校務……"],["柯委員志恩：否則我很擔心沒有好的老師，沒有好的學生，我們老師真的快待不下去了。"],["鄭部長英耀：我完全同意委員的……"],["柯委員志恩：好，我們共勉，謝謝部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝、謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝柯志恩委員還有部長，請回座。先讓部長喝口水。","現在請吳沛憶委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-22-3","speakers":["劉書彬","柯志恩","吳沛憶","范雲","林沛祥","葛如鈞","葉元之","羅廷瑋","萬美玲","郭昱晴","謝龍介","陳秀寳","陳瑩","林宜瑾","賴惠員","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐富癸","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","林月琴","洪孟楷","林德福","高金素梅","翁曉玲"],"page_start":175,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00005"}}}