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00:01:16,592\n這是亞營公布的數字因為本來對經濟成長率的預測是上半年好下半年萎縮那我請問主計長現在對經濟成長預測數字的上調到底是下半年經濟好轉還是下半年經濟衰退趨於緩和\n\n5\n00:01:32,045 --> 00:01:44,754\n但是下半年的情況其實從六七八月到現在一直情況都是還不錯所以我們本來是說他可能會再下更緩和但是事實上情況並不是這樣\n\n6\n00:01:45,410 --> 00:02:03,858\n所以仍然有持續這個穩定的一個狀態所以其實我們自己主計總數出乎是4.45亞銀是5.1所以說你認為是台灣是一驚突起沒有受太大衰退的影響是不是\n\n7\n00:02:04,678 --> 00:02:29,067\n影響的部分可能不是在下半年馬上就顯現可能要再往後延一點再看一下整個一個關稅的一個情形才會做一個變化主席長因為IMF總裁上個禮拜警告當前整個資產的估值這個資產估值已經接近25年前網路泡沫時期的水準\n\n8\n00:02:30,767 --> 00:02:57,018\n如果市場出現急劇下跌金融環境收緊將削弱成長的動人並讓整個發展中的國家更加的艱困那主席長近期台灣出口成長可以說是靠AI的浪潮那我請問IMF總裁針對AI泡沫化的事情你有什麼看法\n\n9\n00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:21,609\n因為目前的需求整個還是很強所以這個部分我們也是需要有所緩緩所以我們在任性預算裡面我們就編列針對就是中小企業一些的輔導的措施或者是說他要去怎樣去轉換投資這個部分的一個輔導這個部分相關的經費我們都有編列所以這個部分我們已經為這個部分先做一些的準備\n\n10\n00:03:22,932 --> 00:03:36,601\n那個你認為台灣整個AI產業出口要是遇到泡沫化有沒有因應的對策還是只有深入你剛剛講的依賴編列任性預算來救AI產業是不是只有這樣子\n\n11\n00:03:37,817 --> 00:03:52,225\n以我們AI的狀況目前情況還是持續的一個看好所以這個部分我們將來也是必須要密切的觀察就是說它一個變化然後我們希望說能夠適時能夠提供給產業適時的一個協助是這樣\n\n12\n00:03:54,885 --> 00:04:11,789\n這樣喔那個主席長賴總統在國慶談話表示將透過新的國防預算來加速打造台灣之盾而且國防預算在2030年前達到國內生產毛兒GDP的5%來展現這個守護國家的決心那我請問主席長\n\n13\n00:04:19,892 --> 00:04:31,302\n賴總統的台灣之盾國防經會你認為會不會發生任性特別預算排擠的疑慮造成盾的品項等級受到影響會不會\n\n14\n00:04:34,194 --> 00:04:47,393\n這個部分排擠是應該是不會啦不會因為以我們來講的話我們是逐年啦逐年達到所以說妳很有信心認為不會是不是我們原則上也是希望說盡量能夠來\n\n15\n00:04:49,215 --> 00:05:06,382\n安排就是說整個一個資源的一個分配就是讓他能夠適度然後國防經會要成長也是一定的趨勢但是我們是怎樣讓他能夠在我們有限的資源裡面能充分運用到整個國防經會讓他能夠逐漸的一個成長\n\n16\n00:05:07,196 --> 00:05:25,828\n因為如果會的話那是不是代表政府會把沒有把錢花在刀口上還是執意胡亂的撒幣反之啊如果沒有排擠的疑慮那是不是意味著政府早先抗拒普發現金的說法根本就是欺騙台灣的老百姓是不是這樣子\n\n17\n00:05:26,488 --> 00:05:53,426\n其實所謂排擠的部分就是資源分配的一個情形但是資源分配其實都會排列優先順序都按優先順序來做排列所以我們如果是認為優先的是優先要排在前面所以像我們一般治水的部分我們就列為最優先所以這個部分在災害防治的方面也是列為最優先所以這個部分我們在經費的排列方面還是民生經濟為優先\n\n18\n00:05:59,452 --> 00:06:13,310\n因為我們去年超徵5283億很多其他鄰近的國家他們也都是超徵以後就普發現金那你們現在變成有一點本末倒置\n\n19\n00:06:14,912 --> 00:06:42,969\n該變略在正常預算裡面你沒有把它納進去然後再用任性用其他特別預算等等那個並不是說本來應該列在正常的預算裡面結果你沒有把它列進來那未來然後再以特別預算任性等等來做這樣的操作你身為主計長我相信你清清楚楚心知肚明該怎麼做我認為一定啊\n\n20\n00:06:43,849 --> 00:06:58,156\n不能讓你想怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做因為編列預算有一定的程序包括立法院預算區法治中心他們也提出很多的建言我認為主席長您應該好好的聽進去\n\n21\n00:06:59,076 --> 00:07:20,184\n我要跟委員說明的就是所謂超徵五千多億事實上這個部分呢是有一部分是屬於要分給地方的所以以中央來講中央才三千多億那如果說以一百一十三年度審計部審定我們有八千三百九十三億的累計剩餘的這個數字那大部分第一個運用到特別預算的一個\n\n22\n00:07:21,624 --> 00:07:49,765\n那個任性還有相關的一個經費之後呢我們剩下4444億那這個部分又投注在我們特別預算裡面那這個部分投注在特別預算特別預算我們都非常的謹慎都一定是有特別條例經過貴院審議之後然後才編列所以這個部分並不是隨隨便便說提特別預算就提特別預算都必須要經過貴院審議之後才能夠編列預算\n\n23\n00:07:50,405 --> 00:08:11,475\n不是說我們說想要提就提一定是先有特別條例通過國防部長顧立雄禮拜一表示年底將提出特別預算無論是雷達系統飛彈系統等等都會朝存活率高來購值俗話說攻擊就是最好的防禦換句話說\n\n24\n00:08:14,036 --> 00:08:40,361\n鮮花制人去削弱威脅並奪取戰場的主動權那我請問主席長你認為有台灣之盾之外是不是也必須要擁有台灣之矛如果要拿台灣之盾去對抗中國之矛請問你認為在兩岸軍事預算建構下台灣之盾的優勢在哪裡你的看法\n\n25\n00:08:41,346 --> 00:08:54,644\n因為這個部分國防預算的部分其實是國防部的一個主責那我們是搭配它來做那我請問妳的看法是我們如果針對因為現在地緣政治的一個\n\n26\n00:08:56,226 --> 00:09:20,632\n一個變動所以這個部分我們本身如果是需要加強防禦的力量這個部分我們是贊成但是我們就看我們要如何整個在資源上如何來接濟如何來做分配如何來做編列是這樣如何來做分配是最重要不是美國講多少我們就配合多少對不對變成人家的小弟人家的棋子\n\n27\n00:09:21,852 --> 00:09:45,327\n那個立法院預算中心在115年中央政府總預算整體評估報告中示警表示特別預算是政府預算制度的彈性補救措施不應該變成常態化成為擴增國防預算的方式恐將扭曲整個年度預算的原貌現在國防部長說台灣之盾\n\n28\n00:09:46,727 --> 00:09:55,052\n要編列特別預算那我請問主計長到底編列年度預算適當還是特別預算比較合理你的看法呢\n\n29\n00:09:55,967 --> 00:10:18,466\n因為年度預算它規模是有一定的如果說要大量的一個增加它本身在整個一個預算的制度上面是沒有辦法容納所以一般光是國防部每年例行性的預算我們大部分都是放在年度預算\n\n30\n00:10:18,906 --> 00:10:36,785\n如果比較特殊的需求他有提出特別預算這個部分我們再就整個一個裁員的一個部分特別來可以預考量因為我那天問過顧立雄我說我們買武器還有多少武器在美國錢給了武器沒給我們他不敢答啊\n\n31\n00:10:37,882 --> 00:11:07,086\n對不對那你一直編今年又編9495億我們不是說不要防禦但是最起碼你錢給人家對不對給了人家結果武器什麼都沒來然後又要給錢一直累積加上去你認為這樣合理嗎這樣可以嗎他不敢答喔說我回去研究研究研究以後也沒有提出來全國人民都需要了解\n\n32\n00:11:07,981 --> 00:11:26,793\n他這是涉及到合約的一個訂定啦譬如說他預計的交付給多少年了餒都沒有給我們武器就存放在那裡錢給的武器也沒有給你說我們身為立法委員是不是應該要監督不是讓你為所欲為給了錢以後反正就給錢就好了對不對\n\n33\n00:11:28,373 --> 00:11:41,139\n我是認為站在主計的立場審計的立場真的你們要好好的把該做的要把它把持好不是任何我們一個單位提出來就為所欲為以上\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n290\t650\t謝謝 謝謝主席是不是來請這個主計長 陳主計長\n30640\t55833\t好 我們請主席長委員好主席長你好 我請教是因為賴總統在郭靖遠說時表示台灣今年的經濟成長率這個預測值反而從3.3%大幅調到5.1%是亞洲四小龍之首那也將超越中國\n58547\t60571\t那我請問主席長賴總統說的台灣今年經濟成長率預測只是主計總數預測公布的數字嗎\n68184\t76592\t這是亞營公布的數字因為本來對經濟成長率的預測是上半年好下半年萎縮那我請問主計長現在對經濟成長預測數字的上調到底是下半年經濟好轉還是下半年經濟衰退趨於緩和\n92045\t104754\t但是下半年的情況其實從六七八月到現在一直情況都是還不錯所以我們本來是說他可能會再下更緩和但是事實上情況並不是這樣\n105410\t123858\t所以仍然有持續這個穩定的一個狀態所以其實我們自己主計總數出乎是4.45亞銀是5.1所以說你認為是台灣是一驚突起沒有受太大衰退的影響是不是\n124678\t149067\t影響的部分可能不是在下半年馬上就顯現可能要再往後延一點再看一下整個一個關稅的一個情形才會做一個變化主席長因為IMF總裁上個禮拜警告當前整個資產的估值這個資產估值已經接近25年前網路泡沫時期的水準\n150767\t177018\t如果市場出現急劇下跌金融環境收緊將削弱成長的動人並讓整個發展中的國家更加的艱困那主席長近期台灣出口成長可以說是靠AI的浪潮那我請問IMF總裁針對AI泡沫化的事情你有什麼看法\n178800\t201609\t因為目前的需求整個還是很強所以這個部分我們也是需要有所緩緩所以我們在任性預算裡面我們就編列針對就是中小企業一些的輔導的措施或者是說他要去怎樣去轉換投資這個部分的一個輔導這個部分相關的經費我們都有編列所以這個部分我們已經為這個部分先做一些的準備\n202932\t216601\t那個你認為台灣整個AI產業出口要是遇到泡沫化有沒有因應的對策還是只有深入你剛剛講的依賴編列任性預算來救AI產業是不是只有這樣子\n217817\t232225\t以我們AI的狀況目前情況還是持續的一個看好所以這個部分我們將來也是必須要密切的觀察就是說它一個變化然後我們希望說能夠適時能夠提供給產業適時的一個協助是這樣\n234885\t251789\t這樣喔 那個主席長賴總統在國慶談話表示將透過新的國防預算來加速打造台灣之盾而且國防預算在2030年前達到國內生產毛兒GDP的5%來展現這個守護國家的決心那我請問主席長\n259892\t271302\t賴總統的台灣之盾國防經會你認為會不會發生任性特別預算排擠的疑慮造成盾的品項等級受到影響會不會\n274194\t287393\t這個部分排擠是應該是不會啦不會因為以我們來講的話我們是逐年啦 逐年達到所以說妳很有信心認為不會是不是我們原則上也是希望說盡量能夠來\n289215\t306382\t安排就是說整個一個資源的一個分配就是讓他能夠適度然後國防經會要成長也是一定的趨勢但是我們是怎樣讓他能夠在我們有限的資源裡面能充分運用到整個國防經會讓他能夠逐漸的一個成長\n307196\t325828\t因為如果會的話那是不是代表政府會把沒有把錢花在刀口上還是執意胡亂的撒幣反之啊如果沒有排擠的疑慮那是不是意味著政府早先抗拒普發現金的說法根本就是欺騙台灣的老百姓是不是這樣子\n326488\t353426\t其實所謂排擠的部分就是資源分配的一個情形但是資源分配其實都會排列優先順序都按優先順序來做排列所以我們如果是認為優先的是優先要排在前面所以像我們一般治水的部分我們就列為最優先所以這個部分在災害防治的方面也是列為最優先所以這個部分我們在經費的排列方面還是民生經濟為優先\n359452\t373310\t因為我們去年超徵5283億很多其他鄰近的國家他們也都是超徵以後就普發現金那你們現在變成有一點本末倒置\n374912\t402969\t該變略在正常預算裡面你沒有把它納進去然後再用任性用其他特別預算等等那個並不是說本來應該列在正常的預算裡面結果你沒有把它列進來那未來然後再以特別預算任性等等來做這樣的操作你身為主計長我相信你清清楚楚心知肚明該怎麼做我認為一定啊\n403849\t418156\t不能讓你想怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做因為編列預算有一定的程序包括立法院預算區法治中心他們也提出很多的建言我認為主席長您應該好好的聽進去\n419076\t440184\t我要跟委員說明的就是所謂超徵五千多億事實上這個部分呢是有一部分是屬於要分給地方的所以以中央來講中央才三千多億那如果說以一百一十三年度審計部審定我們有八千三百九十三億的累計剩餘的這個數字那大部分第一個運用到特別預算的一個\n441624\t469765\t那個任性還有相關的一個經費之後呢我們剩下4444億那這個部分又投注在我們特別預算裡面那這個部分投注在特別預算特別預算我們都非常的謹慎都一定是有特別條例經過貴院審議之後然後才編列所以這個部分並不是隨隨便便說提特別預算就提特別預算都必須要經過貴院審議之後才能夠編列預算\n470405\t491475\t不是說我們說想要提就提一定是先有特別條例通過國防部長顧立雄禮拜一表示年底將提出特別預算無論是雷達系統 飛彈系統等等都會朝存活率高來購值俗話說攻擊就是最好的防禦換句話說\n494036\t520361\t鮮花制人去削弱威脅並奪取戰場的主動權那我請問主席長你認為有台灣之盾之外是不是也必須要擁有台灣之矛如果要拿台灣之盾去對抗中國之矛請問你認為在兩岸軍事預算建構下台灣之盾的優勢在哪裡你的看法\n521346\t534644\t因為這個部分國防預算的部分其實是國防部的一個主責那我們是搭配它來做那我請問妳的看法是 我們如果針對因為現在地緣政治的一個\n536226\t560632\t一個變動所以這個部分我們本身如果是需要加強防禦的力量這個部分我們是贊成但是我們就看我們要如何整個在資源上如何來接濟如何來做分配如何來做編列是這樣如何來做分配是最重要不是美國講多少我們就配合多少對不對變成人家的小弟人家的棋子\n561852\t585327\t那個立法院預算中心在115年中央政府總預算整體評估報告中示警表示特別預算是政府預算制度的彈性補救措施不應該變成常態化成為擴增國防預算的方式恐將扭曲整個年度預算的原貌現在國防部長說台灣之盾\n586727\t595052\t要編列特別預算那我請問主計長到底編列年度預算適當還是特別預算比較合理你的看法呢\n595967\t618466\t因為年度預算它規模是有一定的如果說要大量的一個增加它本身在整個一個預算的制度上面是沒有辦法容納所以一般光是國防部每年例行性的預算我們大部分都是放在年度預算\n618906\t636785\t如果比較特殊的需求他有提出特別預算這個部分我們再就整個一個裁員的一個部分特別來可以預考量因為我那天問過顧立雄我說我們買武器還有多少武器在美國錢給了武器沒給我們他不敢答啊\n637882\t667086\t對不對 那你一直編 今年又編9495億我們不是說不要防禦 但是最起碼你錢給人家對不對 給了人家結果武器什麼都沒來然後又要給錢 一直累積加上去你認為這樣合理嗎 這樣可以嗎他不敢答喔 說我回去研究研究研究以後也沒有提出來 全國人民都需要了解\n667981\t686793\t他這是涉及到合約的一個訂定啦譬如說他預計的交付給多少年了餒都沒有給我們武器就存放在那裡錢給的武器也沒有給你說我們身為立法委員是不是應該要監督不是讓你為所欲為給了錢以後反正就給錢就好了對不對\n688373\t701139\t我是認為站在主計的立場審計的立場真的你們要好好的把該做的要把它把持好不是任何我們一個單位提出來就為所欲為以上\n","txt":"謝謝 謝謝主席是不是來請這個主計長 陳主計長\n好 我們請主席長委員好主席長你好 我請教是因為賴總統在郭靖遠說時表示台灣今年的經濟成長率這個預測值反而從3.3%大幅調到5.1%是亞洲四小龍之首那也將超越中國\n那我請問主席長賴總統說的台灣今年經濟成長率預測只是主計總數預測公布的數字嗎\n這是亞營公布的數字因為本來對經濟成長率的預測是上半年好下半年萎縮那我請問主計長現在對經濟成長預測數字的上調到底是下半年經濟好轉還是下半年經濟衰退趨於緩和\n但是下半年的情況其實從六七八月到現在一直情況都是還不錯所以我們本來是說他可能會再下更緩和但是事實上情況並不是這樣\n所以仍然有持續這個穩定的一個狀態所以其實我們自己主計總數出乎是4.45亞銀是5.1所以說你認為是台灣是一驚突起沒有受太大衰退的影響是不是\n影響的部分可能不是在下半年馬上就顯現可能要再往後延一點再看一下整個一個關稅的一個情形才會做一個變化主席長因為IMF總裁上個禮拜警告當前整個資產的估值這個資產估值已經接近25年前網路泡沫時期的水準\n如果市場出現急劇下跌金融環境收緊將削弱成長的動人並讓整個發展中的國家更加的艱困那主席長近期台灣出口成長可以說是靠AI的浪潮那我請問IMF總裁針對AI泡沫化的事情你有什麼看法\n因為目前的需求整個還是很強所以這個部分我們也是需要有所緩緩所以我們在任性預算裡面我們就編列針對就是中小企業一些的輔導的措施或者是說他要去怎樣去轉換投資這個部分的一個輔導這個部分相關的經費我們都有編列所以這個部分我們已經為這個部分先做一些的準備\n那個你認為台灣整個AI產業出口要是遇到泡沫化有沒有因應的對策還是只有深入你剛剛講的依賴編列任性預算來救AI產業是不是只有這樣子\n以我們AI的狀況目前情況還是持續的一個看好所以這個部分我們將來也是必須要密切的觀察就是說它一個變化然後我們希望說能夠適時能夠提供給產業適時的一個協助是這樣\n這樣喔 那個主席長賴總統在國慶談話表示將透過新的國防預算來加速打造台灣之盾而且國防預算在2030年前達到國內生產毛兒GDP的5%來展現這個守護國家的決心那我請問主席長\n賴總統的台灣之盾國防經會你認為會不會發生任性特別預算排擠的疑慮造成盾的品項等級受到影響會不會\n這個部分排擠是應該是不會啦不會因為以我們來講的話我們是逐年啦 逐年達到所以說妳很有信心認為不會是不是我們原則上也是希望說盡量能夠來\n安排就是說整個一個資源的一個分配就是讓他能夠適度然後國防經會要成長也是一定的趨勢但是我們是怎樣讓他能夠在我們有限的資源裡面能充分運用到整個國防經會讓他能夠逐漸的一個成長\n因為如果會的話那是不是代表政府會把沒有把錢花在刀口上還是執意胡亂的撒幣反之啊如果沒有排擠的疑慮那是不是意味著政府早先抗拒普發現金的說法根本就是欺騙台灣的老百姓是不是這樣子\n其實所謂排擠的部分就是資源分配的一個情形但是資源分配其實都會排列優先順序都按優先順序來做排列所以我們如果是認為優先的是優先要排在前面所以像我們一般治水的部分我們就列為最優先所以這個部分在災害防治的方面也是列為最優先所以這個部分我們在經費的排列方面還是民生經濟為優先\n因為我們去年超徵5283億很多其他鄰近的國家他們也都是超徵以後就普發現金那你們現在變成有一點本末倒置\n該變略在正常預算裡面你沒有把它納進去然後再用任性用其他特別預算等等那個並不是說本來應該列在正常的預算裡面結果你沒有把它列進來那未來然後再以特別預算任性等等來做這樣的操作你身為主計長我相信你清清楚楚心知肚明該怎麼做我認為一定啊\n不能讓你想怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做因為編列預算有一定的程序包括立法院預算區法治中心他們也提出很多的建言我認為主席長您應該好好的聽進去\n我要跟委員說明的就是所謂超徵五千多億事實上這個部分呢是有一部分是屬於要分給地方的所以以中央來講中央才三千多億那如果說以一百一十三年度審計部審定我們有八千三百九十三億的累計剩餘的這個數字那大部分第一個運用到特別預算的一個\n那個任性還有相關的一個經費之後呢我們剩下4444億那這個部分又投注在我們特別預算裡面那這個部分投注在特別預算特別預算我們都非常的謹慎都一定是有特別條例經過貴院審議之後然後才編列所以這個部分並不是隨隨便便說提特別預算就提特別預算都必須要經過貴院審議之後才能夠編列預算\n不是說我們說想要提就提一定是先有特別條例通過國防部長顧立雄禮拜一表示年底將提出特別預算無論是雷達系統 飛彈系統等等都會朝存活率高來購值俗話說攻擊就是最好的防禦換句話說\n鮮花制人去削弱威脅並奪取戰場的主動權那我請問主席長你認為有台灣之盾之外是不是也必須要擁有台灣之矛如果要拿台灣之盾去對抗中國之矛請問你認為在兩岸軍事預算建構下台灣之盾的優勢在哪裡你的看法\n因為這個部分國防預算的部分其實是國防部的一個主責那我們是搭配它來做那我請問妳的看法是 我們如果針對因為現在地緣政治的一個\n一個變動所以這個部分我們本身如果是需要加強防禦的力量這個部分我們是贊成但是我們就看我們要如何整個在資源上如何來接濟如何來做分配如何來做編列是這樣如何來做分配是最重要不是美國講多少我們就配合多少對不對變成人家的小弟人家的棋子\n那個立法院預算中心在115年中央政府總預算整體評估報告中示警表示特別預算是政府預算制度的彈性補救措施不應該變成常態化成為擴增國防預算的方式恐將扭曲整個年度預算的原貌現在國防部長說台灣之盾\n要編列特別預算那我請問主計長到底編列年度預算適當還是特別預算比較合理你的看法呢\n因為年度預算它規模是有一定的如果說要大量的一個增加它本身在整個一個預算的制度上面是沒有辦法容納所以一般光是國防部每年例行性的預算我們大部分都是放在年度預算\n如果比較特殊的需求他有提出特別預算這個部分我們再就整個一個裁員的一個部分特別來可以預考量因為我那天問過顧立雄我說我們買武器還有多少武器在美國錢給了武器沒給我們他不敢答啊\n對不對 那你一直編 今年又編9495億我們不是說不要防禦 但是最起碼你錢給人家對不對 給了人家結果武器什麼都沒來然後又要給錢 一直累積加上去你認為這樣合理嗎 這樣可以嗎他不敢答喔 說我回去研究研究研究以後也沒有提出來 全國人民都需要了解\n他這是涉及到合約的一個訂定啦譬如說他預計的交付給多少年了餒都沒有給我們武器就存放在那裡錢給的武器也沒有給你說我們身為立法委員是不是應該要監督不是讓你為所欲為給了錢以後反正就給錢就好了對不對\n我是認為站在主計的立場審計的立場真的你們要好好的把該做的要把它把持好不是任何我們一個單位提出來就為所欲為以上\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.290 --> 00:00.650\n謝謝謝謝主席是不是來請這個主計長陳主計長\n\n00:30.640 --> 00:55.833\n好我們請主席長委員好主席長你好我請教是因為賴總統在郭靖遠說時表示台灣今年的經濟成長率這個預測值反而從3.3%大幅調到5.1%是亞洲四小龍之首那也將超越中國\n\n00:58.547 --> 01:00.571\n那我請問主席長賴總統說的台灣今年經濟成長率預測只是主計總數預測公布的數字嗎\n\n01:08.184 --> 01:16.592\n這是亞營公布的數字因為本來對經濟成長率的預測是上半年好下半年萎縮那我請問主計長現在對經濟成長預測數字的上調到底是下半年經濟好轉還是下半年經濟衰退趨於緩和\n\n01:32.045 --> 01:44.754\n但是下半年的情況其實從六七八月到現在一直情況都是還不錯所以我們本來是說他可能會再下更緩和但是事實上情況並不是這樣\n\n01:45.410 --> 02:03.858\n所以仍然有持續這個穩定的一個狀態所以其實我們自己主計總數出乎是4.45亞銀是5.1所以說你認為是台灣是一驚突起沒有受太大衰退的影響是不是\n\n02:04.678 --> 02:29.067\n影響的部分可能不是在下半年馬上就顯現可能要再往後延一點再看一下整個一個關稅的一個情形才會做一個變化主席長因為IMF總裁上個禮拜警告當前整個資產的估值這個資產估值已經接近25年前網路泡沫時期的水準\n\n02:30.767 --> 02:57.018\n如果市場出現急劇下跌金融環境收緊將削弱成長的動人並讓整個發展中的國家更加的艱困那主席長近期台灣出口成長可以說是靠AI的浪潮那我請問IMF總裁針對AI泡沫化的事情你有什麼看法\n\n02:58.800 --> 03:21.609\n因為目前的需求整個還是很強所以這個部分我們也是需要有所緩緩所以我們在任性預算裡面我們就編列針對就是中小企業一些的輔導的措施或者是說他要去怎樣去轉換投資這個部分的一個輔導這個部分相關的經費我們都有編列所以這個部分我們已經為這個部分先做一些的準備\n\n03:22.932 --> 03:36.601\n那個你認為台灣整個AI產業出口要是遇到泡沫化有沒有因應的對策還是只有深入你剛剛講的依賴編列任性預算來救AI產業是不是只有這樣子\n\n03:37.817 --> 03:52.225\n以我們AI的狀況目前情況還是持續的一個看好所以這個部分我們將來也是必須要密切的觀察就是說它一個變化然後我們希望說能夠適時能夠提供給產業適時的一個協助是這樣\n\n03:54.885 --> 04:11.789\n這樣喔那個主席長賴總統在國慶談話表示將透過新的國防預算來加速打造台灣之盾而且國防預算在2030年前達到國內生產毛兒GDP的5%來展現這個守護國家的決心那我請問主席長\n\n04:19.892 --> 04:31.302\n賴總統的台灣之盾國防經會你認為會不會發生任性特別預算排擠的疑慮造成盾的品項等級受到影響會不會\n\n04:34.194 --> 04:47.393\n這個部分排擠是應該是不會啦不會因為以我們來講的話我們是逐年啦逐年達到所以說妳很有信心認為不會是不是我們原則上也是希望說盡量能夠來\n\n04:49.215 --> 05:06.382\n安排就是說整個一個資源的一個分配就是讓他能夠適度然後國防經會要成長也是一定的趨勢但是我們是怎樣讓他能夠在我們有限的資源裡面能充分運用到整個國防經會讓他能夠逐漸的一個成長\n\n05:07.196 --> 05:25.828\n因為如果會的話那是不是代表政府會把沒有把錢花在刀口上還是執意胡亂的撒幣反之啊如果沒有排擠的疑慮那是不是意味著政府早先抗拒普發現金的說法根本就是欺騙台灣的老百姓是不是這樣子\n\n05:26.488 --> 05:53.426\n其實所謂排擠的部分就是資源分配的一個情形但是資源分配其實都會排列優先順序都按優先順序來做排列所以我們如果是認為優先的是優先要排在前面所以像我們一般治水的部分我們就列為最優先所以這個部分在災害防治的方面也是列為最優先所以這個部分我們在經費的排列方面還是民生經濟為優先\n\n05:59.452 --> 06:13.310\n因為我們去年超徵5283億很多其他鄰近的國家他們也都是超徵以後就普發現金那你們現在變成有一點本末倒置\n\n06:14.912 --> 06:42.969\n該變略在正常預算裡面你沒有把它納進去然後再用任性用其他特別預算等等那個並不是說本來應該列在正常的預算裡面結果你沒有把它列進來那未來然後再以特別預算任性等等來做這樣的操作你身為主計長我相信你清清楚楚心知肚明該怎麼做我認為一定啊\n\n06:43.849 --> 06:58.156\n不能讓你想怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做因為編列預算有一定的程序包括立法院預算區法治中心他們也提出很多的建言我認為主席長您應該好好的聽進去\n\n06:59.076 --> 07:20.184\n我要跟委員說明的就是所謂超徵五千多億事實上這個部分呢是有一部分是屬於要分給地方的所以以中央來講中央才三千多億那如果說以一百一十三年度審計部審定我們有八千三百九十三億的累計剩餘的這個數字那大部分第一個運用到特別預算的一個\n\n07:21.624 --> 07:49.765\n那個任性還有相關的一個經費之後呢我們剩下4444億那這個部分又投注在我們特別預算裡面那這個部分投注在特別預算特別預算我們都非常的謹慎都一定是有特別條例經過貴院審議之後然後才編列所以這個部分並不是隨隨便便說提特別預算就提特別預算都必須要經過貴院審議之後才能夠編列預算\n\n07:50.405 --> 08:11.475\n不是說我們說想要提就提一定是先有特別條例通過國防部長顧立雄禮拜一表示年底將提出特別預算無論是雷達系統飛彈系統等等都會朝存活率高來購值俗話說攻擊就是最好的防禦換句話說\n\n08:14.036 --> 08:40.361\n鮮花制人去削弱威脅並奪取戰場的主動權那我請問主席長你認為有台灣之盾之外是不是也必須要擁有台灣之矛如果要拿台灣之盾去對抗中國之矛請問你認為在兩岸軍事預算建構下台灣之盾的優勢在哪裡你的看法\n\n08:41.346 --> 08:54.644\n因為這個部分國防預算的部分其實是國防部的一個主責那我們是搭配它來做那我請問妳的看法是我們如果針對因為現在地緣政治的一個\n\n08:56.226 --> 09:20.632\n一個變動所以這個部分我們本身如果是需要加強防禦的力量這個部分我們是贊成但是我們就看我們要如何整個在資源上如何來接濟如何來做分配如何來做編列是這樣如何來做分配是最重要不是美國講多少我們就配合多少對不對變成人家的小弟人家的棋子\n\n09:21.852 --> 09:45.327\n那個立法院預算中心在115年中央政府總預算整體評估報告中示警表示特別預算是政府預算制度的彈性補救措施不應該變成常態化成為擴增國防預算的方式恐將扭曲整個年度預算的原貌現在國防部長說台灣之盾\n\n09:46.727 --> 09:55.052\n要編列特別預算那我請問主計長到底編列年度預算適當還是特別預算比較合理你的看法呢\n\n09:55.967 --> 10:18.466\n因為年度預算它規模是有一定的如果說要大量的一個增加它本身在整個一個預算的制度上面是沒有辦法容納所以一般光是國防部每年例行性的預算我們大部分都是放在年度預算\n\n10:18.906 --> 10:36.785\n如果比較特殊的需求他有提出特別預算這個部分我們再就整個一個裁員的一個部分特別來可以預考量因為我那天問過顧立雄我說我們買武器還有多少武器在美國錢給了武器沒給我們他不敢答啊\n\n10:37.882 --> 11:07.086\n對不對那你一直編今年又編9495億我們不是說不要防禦但是最起碼你錢給人家對不對給了人家結果武器什麼都沒來然後又要給錢一直累積加上去你認為這樣合理嗎這樣可以嗎他不敢答喔說我回去研究研究研究以後也沒有提出來全國人民都需要了解\n\n11:07.981 --> 11:26.793\n他這是涉及到合約的一個訂定啦譬如說他預計的交付給多少年了餒都沒有給我們武器就存放在那裡錢給的武器也沒有給你說我們身為立法委員是不是應該要監督不是讓你為所欲為給了錢以後反正就給錢就好了對不對\n\n11:28.373 --> 11:41.139\n我是認為站在主計的立場審計的立場真的你們要好好的把該做的要把它把持好不是任何我們一個單位提出來就為所欲為以上\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.29,"end":0.65,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席是不是來請這個主計長 陳主計長"},{"start":30.64,"end":55.833,"text":"好 我們請主席長委員好主席長你好 我請教是因為賴總統在郭靖遠說時表示台灣今年的經濟成長率這個預測值反而從3.3%大幅調到5.1%是亞洲四小龍之首那也將超越中國"},{"start":58.547,"end":60.571,"text":"那我請問主席長賴總統說的台灣今年經濟成長率預測只是主計總數預測公布的數字嗎"},{"start":68.184,"end":76.592,"text":"這是亞營公布的數字因為本來對經濟成長率的預測是上半年好下半年萎縮那我請問主計長現在對經濟成長預測數字的上調到底是下半年經濟好轉還是下半年經濟衰退趨於緩和"},{"start":92.045,"end":104.754,"text":"但是下半年的情況其實從六七八月到現在一直情況都是還不錯所以我們本來是說他可能會再下更緩和但是事實上情況並不是這樣"},{"start":105.41,"end":123.858,"text":"所以仍然有持續這個穩定的一個狀態所以其實我們自己主計總數出乎是4.45亞銀是5.1所以說你認為是台灣是一驚突起沒有受太大衰退的影響是不是"},{"start":124.678,"end":149.067,"text":"影響的部分可能不是在下半年馬上就顯現可能要再往後延一點再看一下整個一個關稅的一個情形才會做一個變化主席長因為IMF總裁上個禮拜警告當前整個資產的估值這個資產估值已經接近25年前網路泡沫時期的水準"},{"start":150.767,"end":177.018,"text":"如果市場出現急劇下跌金融環境收緊將削弱成長的動人並讓整個發展中的國家更加的艱困那主席長近期台灣出口成長可以說是靠AI的浪潮那我請問IMF總裁針對AI泡沫化的事情你有什麼看法"},{"start":178.8,"end":201.609,"text":"因為目前的需求整個還是很強所以這個部分我們也是需要有所緩緩所以我們在任性預算裡面我們就編列針對就是中小企業一些的輔導的措施或者是說他要去怎樣去轉換投資這個部分的一個輔導這個部分相關的經費我們都有編列所以這個部分我們已經為這個部分先做一些的準備"},{"start":202.932,"end":216.601,"text":"那個你認為台灣整個AI產業出口要是遇到泡沫化有沒有因應的對策還是只有深入你剛剛講的依賴編列任性預算來救AI產業是不是只有這樣子"},{"start":217.817,"end":232.225,"text":"以我們AI的狀況目前情況還是持續的一個看好所以這個部分我們將來也是必須要密切的觀察就是說它一個變化然後我們希望說能夠適時能夠提供給產業適時的一個協助是這樣"},{"start":234.885,"end":251.789,"text":"這樣喔 那個主席長賴總統在國慶談話表示將透過新的國防預算來加速打造台灣之盾而且國防預算在2030年前達到國內生產毛兒GDP的5%來展現這個守護國家的決心那我請問主席長"},{"start":259.892,"end":271.302,"text":"賴總統的台灣之盾國防經會你認為會不會發生任性特別預算排擠的疑慮造成盾的品項等級受到影響會不會"},{"start":274.194,"end":287.393,"text":"這個部分排擠是應該是不會啦不會因為以我們來講的話我們是逐年啦 逐年達到所以說妳很有信心認為不會是不是我們原則上也是希望說盡量能夠來"},{"start":289.215,"end":306.382,"text":"安排就是說整個一個資源的一個分配就是讓他能夠適度然後國防經會要成長也是一定的趨勢但是我們是怎樣讓他能夠在我們有限的資源裡面能充分運用到整個國防經會讓他能夠逐漸的一個成長"},{"start":307.196,"end":325.828,"text":"因為如果會的話那是不是代表政府會把沒有把錢花在刀口上還是執意胡亂的撒幣反之啊如果沒有排擠的疑慮那是不是意味著政府早先抗拒普發現金的說法根本就是欺騙台灣的老百姓是不是這樣子"},{"start":326.488,"end":353.426,"text":"其實所謂排擠的部分就是資源分配的一個情形但是資源分配其實都會排列優先順序都按優先順序來做排列所以我們如果是認為優先的是優先要排在前面所以像我們一般治水的部分我們就列為最優先所以這個部分在災害防治的方面也是列為最優先所以這個部分我們在經費的排列方面還是民生經濟為優先"},{"start":359.452,"end":373.31,"text":"因為我們去年超徵5283億很多其他鄰近的國家他們也都是超徵以後就普發現金那你們現在變成有一點本末倒置"},{"start":374.912,"end":402.969,"text":"該變略在正常預算裡面你沒有把它納進去然後再用任性用其他特別預算等等那個並不是說本來應該列在正常的預算裡面結果你沒有把它列進來那未來然後再以特別預算任性等等來做這樣的操作你身為主計長我相信你清清楚楚心知肚明該怎麼做我認為一定啊"},{"start":403.849,"end":418.156,"text":"不能讓你想怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做因為編列預算有一定的程序包括立法院預算區法治中心他們也提出很多的建言我認為主席長您應該好好的聽進去"},{"start":419.076,"end":440.184,"text":"我要跟委員說明的就是所謂超徵五千多億事實上這個部分呢是有一部分是屬於要分給地方的所以以中央來講中央才三千多億那如果說以一百一十三年度審計部審定我們有八千三百九十三億的累計剩餘的這個數字那大部分第一個運用到特別預算的一個"},{"start":441.624,"end":469.765,"text":"那個任性還有相關的一個經費之後呢我們剩下4444億那這個部分又投注在我們特別預算裡面那這個部分投注在特別預算特別預算我們都非常的謹慎都一定是有特別條例經過貴院審議之後然後才編列所以這個部分並不是隨隨便便說提特別預算就提特別預算都必須要經過貴院審議之後才能夠編列預算"},{"start":470.405,"end":491.475,"text":"不是說我們說想要提就提一定是先有特別條例通過國防部長顧立雄禮拜一表示年底將提出特別預算無論是雷達系統 飛彈系統等等都會朝存活率高來購值俗話說攻擊就是最好的防禦換句話說"},{"start":494.036,"end":520.361,"text":"鮮花制人去削弱威脅並奪取戰場的主動權那我請問主席長你認為有台灣之盾之外是不是也必須要擁有台灣之矛如果要拿台灣之盾去對抗中國之矛請問你認為在兩岸軍事預算建構下台灣之盾的優勢在哪裡你的看法"},{"start":521.346,"end":534.644,"text":"因為這個部分國防預算的部分其實是國防部的一個主責那我們是搭配它來做那我請問妳的看法是 我們如果針對因為現在地緣政治的一個"},{"start":536.226,"end":560.632,"text":"一個變動所以這個部分我們本身如果是需要加強防禦的力量這個部分我們是贊成但是我們就看我們要如何整個在資源上如何來接濟如何來做分配如何來做編列是這樣如何來做分配是最重要不是美國講多少我們就配合多少對不對變成人家的小弟人家的棋子"},{"start":561.852,"end":585.327,"text":"那個立法院預算中心在115年中央政府總預算整體評估報告中示警表示特別預算是政府預算制度的彈性補救措施不應該變成常態化成為擴增國防預算的方式恐將扭曲整個年度預算的原貌現在國防部長說台灣之盾"},{"start":586.727,"end":595.052,"text":"要編列特別預算那我請問主計長到底編列年度預算適當還是特別預算比較合理你的看法呢"},{"start":595.967,"end":618.466,"text":"因為年度預算它規模是有一定的如果說要大量的一個增加它本身在整個一個預算的制度上面是沒有辦法容納所以一般光是國防部每年例行性的預算我們大部分都是放在年度預算"},{"start":618.906,"end":636.785,"text":"如果比較特殊的需求他有提出特別預算這個部分我們再就整個一個裁員的一個部分特別來可以預考量因為我那天問過顧立雄我說我們買武器還有多少武器在美國錢給了武器沒給我們他不敢答啊"},{"start":637.882,"end":667.086,"text":"對不對 那你一直編 今年又編9495億我們不是說不要防禦 但是最起碼你錢給人家對不對 給了人家結果武器什麼都沒來然後又要給錢 一直累積加上去你認為這樣合理嗎 這樣可以嗎他不敢答喔 說我回去研究研究研究以後也沒有提出來 全國人民都需要了解"},{"start":667.981,"end":686.793,"text":"他這是涉及到合約的一個訂定啦譬如說他預計的交付給多少年了餒都沒有給我們武器就存放在那裡錢給的武器也沒有給你說我們身為立法委員是不是應該要監督不是讓你為所欲為給了錢以後反正就給錢就好了對不對"},{"start":688.373,"end":701.139,"text":"我是認為站在主計的立場審計的立場真的你們要好好的把該做的要把它把持好不是任何我們一個單位提出來就為所欲為以上"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":155,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（9時19分）謝謝主席，請陳主計長。"],["主席：請主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["林委員德福：主計長，你好。賴總統在國慶演說時表示臺灣今年的經濟成長率預測值反而從3.3%大幅調升至5.1%，是亞洲四小龍之首，也將超越中國。請問主計長，賴總統說的臺灣今年經濟成長率預測值是主計總處預測公布的數字嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這是亞銀公布的數字。"],["林委員德福：因為本來對經濟成長率的預測是上半年好、下半年萎縮，請問主計長，現在對經濟成長預測數字的上調，到底是下半年經濟好轉，還是下半年經濟衰退、趨於緩和？"],["陳主計長淑姿：關於下半年的情況，其實從6、7、8月到現在，情況一直都是還不錯，我們本來認為在下半年可能會更緩和，但是事實上情況並不是這樣，所以仍然有持續穩定的狀態，其實主計總處的粗估是4.45%，亞銀是5.1%。"],["林委員德福：所以你認為臺灣是異軍突起，沒有受太大衰退的影響，是不是？"],["陳主計長淑姿：影響的部分可能不是在下半年馬上就顯現，可能要再往後延一點，再看一下整個關稅的情形才會做一個變化。"],["林委員德福：主計長，因為IMF總裁上個禮拜警告，當前整個資產估值已經接近25年前網路泡沫時期的水準，如果市場出現急遽下跌，金融環境收緊將削弱成長的動能，並讓發展中的國家更加艱困。主計長，近期臺灣的出口成長可以說是靠AI浪潮，請問IMF總裁針對AI泡沫化的示警，你有什麼看法？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為目前的需求還是很強，但是對於這個部分我們也是需要有所防範，所以我們在韌性預算裡面就編列針對中小企業的一些輔導措施，或是如何轉換投資的輔導，這個部分的相關經費我們都有編列，所以我們已經為這個部分先做一些準備。"],["林委員德福：你認為臺灣整個AI產業出口如果遇到泡沫化有沒有因應對策，還是只有誠如你剛剛講的，依賴編列韌性預算來救AI產業，是不是只有這樣子？"],["陳主計長淑姿：以AI的狀況來講，我們目前的情況還是持續地看好，我們將來也必須要密切地觀察它的變化，我們也希望能夠提供產業適時的協助。"],["林委員德福：主計長，賴總統在國慶談話表示將透過新的國防預算來加速打造臺灣之盾，而且國防預算在2030年前達到國內生產毛額（GDP）的5%，來展現守護國家的決心，請問主計長，賴總統的臺灣之盾國防經費，你認為會不會發生韌性特別預算排擠的疑慮，造成盾的品項、等級受到影響？會不會？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分的排擠應該是不會。"],["林委員德福：不會？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為以我們來講，我們是逐年達到……"],["林委員德福：所以你很有信心，你認為不會，是不是？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們原則上也是希望能夠儘量安排整個資源的分配，讓它能夠適度，國防經費成長也是一定的趨勢，但是我們怎麼樣能夠在有限的資源裡面充分運用到整個國防經費，讓它能夠逐漸地成長。"],["林委員德福：如果會的話，是不是代表政府沒有把錢花在刀口上，還是執意胡亂的撒幣？反之，如果沒有排擠的疑慮，是不是意味著政府早先抗拒普發現金的說法，根本就是欺騙臺灣的老百姓，是不是這樣子？"],["陳主計長淑姿：其實所謂排擠的部分就是資源分配的情形，但是資源分配都會按優先順序來排列，所以我們認為優先的要排在前面，像一般治水的部分，我們就列為最優先，這個部分在災害防制方面也是列為最優先，我們在經費的排列方面還是以民生、經濟為優先，國防當然也非常的重要。"],["林委員德福：主計長，因為我們去年超徵5,283億，很多其他的鄰近國家也都是超徵以後就普發現金，你們現在變成有一點本末倒置，該編列在正常預算裡面，你沒有把它納進去，然後再用韌性、用其他特別預算等等編列，那個並不是說……本來應該列在正常的預算裡面，結果你沒有把它列進來，未來再以特別預算、韌性等等來做這樣的操作。身為主計長，我相信你清清楚楚、心知肚明該怎麼做，我認為一定不能讓你想怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做，因為編列預算有一定的程序，包括立法院預算中心及法制局也提出很多的建言，我認為主計長，你應該好好地聽進去。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我要跟委員說明，所謂的超徵五千多億，事實上，有一部分是屬於要分給地方的，以中央來講，中央才三千多億。如果以113年度審計部審定我們累計賸餘有8,393億，第一個，大部分運用到韌性特別預算及相關的經費之後，我們剩下4,444億，這個部分又投注在特別預算裡面，特別預算我們都非常地謹慎，都一定是有特別條例，經過貴院審議之後才編列，所以這個部分並不是隨隨便便提特別預算就提特別預算，都必須要經過貴院審議之後才能夠編列預算，不是我們想要提就提，一定是先有特別條例通過之後才編列。"],["林委員德福：國防部長顧立雄禮拜一表示年底將提出特別預算，無論是雷達系統、飛彈系統等等，都會朝存活率高購置。俗話說攻擊就是最好的防禦，換句話說，先發制人去削弱威脅，並奪取戰場的主動權。那我請問主計長，你認為有臺灣之盾之外，是不是也必須要擁有臺灣之矛？如果要拿臺灣之盾去對抗中國之矛，請問你認為在兩岸軍事預算建構下，臺灣之盾的優勢在哪裡，你的看法呢？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為國防預算的部分，其實是國防部主責，我們是搭配他們來做一個……"],["林委員德福：我請問你的看法啊？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，因為現在地緣政治的變動，我們本身如果是需要加強防禦力量，這個部分我們是贊成，但就看我們要在資源上如何來接續、如何來做分配、如何來做編列。"],["林委員德福：如何來做分配是最重要的。不是美國講多少，我們就配合多少，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["林委員德福：變成人家的小弟、人家的棋子，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，這個部分我們也會提出建議。"],["林委員德福：立法院預算中心在115年中央政府總預算整體評估報告中示警，表示特別預算是政府預算制度的彈性補救措施，不應該變成常態化，成為擴增國防預算的方式，恐將扭曲整個年度預算的原貌。現在國防部長說臺灣之盾要編列特別預算，我請問主計長，到底是編列在年度預算適當，還是特別預算比較合理，你的看法呢？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為年度預算的規模是有一定的，如果要大量的增加，本身在整個預算制度上面是沒有辦法容納，光是國防部每年例行性的預算，我們大部分都是放在年度預算，如果比較特殊的需求，他們有提出特別預算，我們再就整個財源狀況特別來予以考量，而且……"],["林委員德福：那天我問過顧立雄，我說我們買武器還有多少武器在美國，錢給了，但武器沒給我們，他不敢答啊，對不對？你一直編，今年又編9,495億，我們不是說不要防禦，但是最起碼你錢給了人家，結果武器什麼的都沒來，然後又要給錢，一直累計加上去，你認為這樣合理嗎？這樣可以嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：當然因為本身的部分……"],["林委員德福：他不敢答喔！說要回去研究、研究，研究以後也沒有提出來，全國人民都需要了解。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這是涉及到合約的訂定，譬如說，他預計交貨的……"],["林委員德福：多少年了欸！都沒有給我們武器，就存放在那裡，錢給了，武器也沒有給，你說我們身為立法委員是不是應該要監督？不是讓你為所欲為，給了錢以後，反正給錢就好了，對不對？我是認為站在主計的立場、審計的立場，你們真的要好好把該做的把它把持好，不是任何單位提出來，就為所欲為了，以上。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。","接下來我們請吳秉叡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-2","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","羅明才","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","林思銘","王世堅","陳玉珍"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00003"}}}