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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,318 --> 00:00:03,640\n有請部長有請部長\n\n2\n00:00:11,758 --> 00:00:39,366\n這個我針對這個租價從去年本席11月提醒到現在我們的租價沒有最高只有更高從去年11月質詢到現在的提醒你們櫃部本來是可以匆匆容容的所以不至於游刃有餘但是現在是匆匆忙忙連滾帶爬我們現在的租價全球第二高好\n\n3\n00:00:40,126 --> 00:00:57,739\n那在這邊針對美國對等關稅及232的談判壓力本行認為美國對台要求農產品市場開放是非常大的可能如果真的走向開放我國的農民要怎麼辦沒有政府的保障也沒有生產效益的提升台灣的農業競爭得過美國的農企業嗎\n\n4\n00:01:01,201 --> 00:01:09,284\n我就以今年的豬肉來看我國的生產成本現在是每公斤92塊比美國的每公斤低於68塊高出了20%到30%也就是說美國的美投豬生產的成本是台灣美投豬生產成本不到7成\n\n5\n00:01:20,248 --> 00:01:39,063\n也就是現在美國豬肉空運來台都比國產豬便宜如果現在農業部還不馬上立即進行你的科技育種也就是基因定序來提升你的豬隻生產效率眼見大量進口豬肉就會有三輸三沒有\n\n6\n00:01:39,743 --> 00:01:58,283\n農業沒有任性農民沒有出入消費者沒有便宜的豬肉我這邊要點醒的你們的預算書這邊有講到豬隻基因改良這是錯誤這一筆我一定刪我講連我們的豆漿黃豆我們一般市民都不講基改了\n\n7\n00:01:59,043 --> 00:02:10,676\n連豆漿我們都不吃雞改黃豆了你在預算當中還編了豬隻基因改良本席強調的是科技一種優生學不是基因改造好而市場零關稅對於民眾的消費市場來講真的有幫忙嗎我要講的三書的書\n\n8\n00:02:18,324 --> 00:02:41,320\n連消費者沒有便宜的豬肉如果未來面對大量進口豬的話我就以今年紐西蘭鮮奶今年1月1號開始零關稅便利店的牛奶售價有降低嗎一塊錢都沒有降農業部說我們穩定零售價格保護台灣弱農補貼弱農本席贊成沒意見但是零關稅了牛奶的售價沒有\n\n9\n00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:58,463\n沒有降價消費者的權益誰來保護合理的懷疑你進口商就從中獲得了超額的報酬好我們看這個去年的承諾台灣農業政策缺乏戰略規劃尤其在自衛化的農業遠遠落後這是本期去年的資訊\n\n10\n00:02:59,304 --> 00:03:20,907\n到現在了而且那時候你回應了我一個月內會提出書面報告規劃基因定序AI技術應用的計畫期望以此為起點帶動台灣榮畜產業的提升增強台灣豬肉在國際市場的競爭力經過了一年了農業部的進度為何好我本席再次的所知\n\n11\n00:03:21,848 --> 00:03:48,464\n從今年的1月到今年的9月你們只成立了叫做豬隻育成應用隊小組這8個字2468一個月一個字好現在呢已經到10月了好這個豬價飆漲去年11月本席提醒了農業部如果不盡快啟動我國的豬隻種源基因定序計畫以智慧化的養殖我國的豬續產就會出現大問題果然是一年後一羽成塵\n\n12\n00:03:49,564 --> 00:04:18,063\n從今年的端午豬肉的需求量五月均價飆三年新高到中秋節每公斤破百元全球第二高那這個豬價的高漲是表象供應的萎縮才是核心問題所以啊你們說啊這個因為疾病啊天差啊天氣炎熱啊導致豬隻育種偏低啊本息一一的破解二在今年七月的時候毛豬的\n\n13\n00:04:19,303 --> 00:04:46,020\n價格是達到106.3元8月更突破了108元這個全球第二高近30年來新高這是你們提供的數據喔好我們看民間全國養豬協會8月的報告說了什麼他說今年的今年的1到8月是去年1到8月當中兩個月內這個61天出頭的出豬頭數低於2萬比去年同期的下降22%\n\n14\n00:04:47,541 --> 00:05:14,877\n所以租價的飆漲不是市場的榮景不是你的品質的提高這個而是你的供給嚴重的萎縮好那你說好了萎縮是疾病沒有錯這也是一個事實但是呢你的這個蘭耳病啊感染率達27%流行性的腹瀉呢南部的育成廠發生率達18%所以北中南的育成率都普遍低於50%\n\n15\n00:05:16,678 --> 00:05:34,250\n所以呢農民講啦豬價高啦但是豬卻養不起因為疾病這個肆虐好這個肆虐你們當然有百分百的責任因為你們農業部連國內養豬場的疾病分布資料都沒有掌握\n\n16\n00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:51,319\n沒有資料如何治理如何管理如何優化生產效率而且農業部我相信部長應該要掌握今年南部超過三成的豬農在減難停養這個數字我相信你應該要掌握的好再來你們講到天氣\n\n17\n00:05:54,223 --> 00:06:00,046\n這個台灣成為亞洲唯一三大病株非疫區國家之後生產效率為何沒提升你說天氣熱2528度之後這個氣溫確實豬就吃不下了可是你看同樣氣候比我們更炎熱的氣候是熱的巴西在拔針之後的非疫區它為何成為豬肉出口大國\n\n18\n00:06:18,513 --> 00:06:35,527\n好你們的報告農業部的國家豬隻續產產業政策書面報告說我們的豬隻美投母豬平均生產上市的豬肉頭數比丹麥荷蘭西班牙美國加拿大22-35頭水準為低這個意思是什麼\n\n19\n00:06:39,170 --> 00:07:04,955\n也就是說一頭母豬他的全體的生育週期最多可以生40隻小豬這40隻小豬在這些先進國家當中他可以有22到35豬35隻是可以出售到市面的本國就只有15隻以下那你們的理由叫什麼呢氣候炎熱提供病媒這病原的極佳的資深環境確實你們掌握的病\n\n20\n00:07:05,655 --> 00:07:24,506\n這個病款這個病的這個的種類什麼假性狂大的PRVPRRSPCV2PED但是你農業部根本沒有掌握養豬場維生物安全環境菌項\n\n21\n00:07:25,487 --> 00:07:30,871\n也就是人跟人是會移動的所有人只要一移動你的你的這樣的每一個豬場的病菌就會相互感染當然你就是會生病嘛所以呢這個其實還是你根本的你的資料沒有掌握好以及希望呢希望你們能夠未來針對維生物安全的環境病相能夠掌握能夠的就是降低疾病的傳染風險提高育成力而不是再把天氣\n\n22\n00:07:55,429 --> 00:08:13,495\n當作你的產量減少的藉口巴西做得到比我們更熱做到你為什麼做不到好再來看到了這個國際競爭壓力豬農如何自保根據美國農業部USDA跟WTO的談判美國要求對台豬肉的關稅調降10%\n\n23\n00:08:15,556 --> 00:08:20,582\n你看國際談判多麼的險惡從這個美台的關稅對我們農業部的進逼他還透過美國還透過WTO要求透過WTO來跟我們講說你還要降到10%你看這是多麼險峻這個本席感同身受但是\n\n24\n00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:55,218\n在這個丹麥農業理事會的報告丹麥豬的飼料轉換效率我就以丹麥就好了他2.6公斤的飼料養1公斤的豬肉我們台灣是什麼3.4到3.6公斤的飼料養一頭豬啊你的豬哪有成本哪有效率啊\n\n25\n00:08:55,758 --> 00:09:13,243\n好就算兩邊價格都一樣美國租大量進口到台灣來租價一樣好了啦國外租的成本還是比我們少了25%到30%還是成本低啊還是成本啊結果誰得利啊你說要補助豬農本席沒意見誰得利貿易商得利\n\n26\n00:09:13,963 --> 00:09:41,104\n消費者有沒有得利沒有因為弱農就給我擺進口牛奶就活生生的擺在前面零關稅的牛奶竟然消費者沒有受益好再來在這種競爭條件下如果你們貴部如果沒有強化種源基因我要講非基因改造你那一筆預算我覺得3提升生產效率建立防疫韌性只怕台灣豬農完全沒有勝算\n\n27\n00:09:41,644 --> 00:10:07,327\n好再如何的進逼呢台灣豬肉在日本市場佔有率曾經達40%1997年後口蹄爆發幾乎歸零如今的口蹄解除了我們出口不能恢復的主因三個品系不穩土體規格不一品牌力不足農業部再說的是復興台灣豬到目前為止只看到補助沒看到升級你看看你的簡報當中你還很洋洋灑灑講到弱農\n\n28\n00:10:09,809 --> 00:10:23,658\n好酪農你只做到兩件事情你這個酪農這個你的簡報第一個品質優化品質控管第二個通路的這個煤盒所以呢今天你這個2025年編列多少預算是用於基因育種0\n\n29\n00:10:25,379 --> 00:10:42,636\n是否能在一個月內提交本席要求台灣株枝DNA資料庫的行動白皮書好我具體要求這兩頁這三項實成責任公開報告第一個建立株枝種源DNA資料庫的建置第二個株枝微生物的安全\n\n30\n00:10:43,277 --> 00:11:01,639\n地圖第三個國產豬品牌標示的制度這個國產豬的標示不是CAS而是你剛才講到了這個碳混沸你們的自主碳你們講到了這個水有海帶講到了森林講到了土壤\n\n31\n00:11:03,081 --> 00:11:27,730\n拜託這個牛續產業才是真的碳的最大的排放排碳啦排碳大戶啊所以你這邊的國產豬隻的不是區別於CS而且是要求具有節能減碳的生產藝術以提高自願碳費好這三項我各有要求時程一個月內提出DNA的這個\n\n32\n00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:53,866\n資料庫兩個月內啟動四點計畫的豬隻維生物的安全地區你的疫情的掌握你的疾病在哪一個哪一個豬場你能百分百掌握包括他商邊的這個郡巷的一個蒐集包括半年內公告草案國產豬品牌的標章而是具有檢人檢探生產因素的提高自願碳費的這樣的生產標章再者\n\n33\n00:11:54,346 --> 00:12:21,826\n最後2025年的租價不是榮警而是警訊這不是榮民貪心也不是市場異常而是政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰租資的租價沒有最高而有更高這件事情是因為你政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰沒有基因育種這個都是成熟在國際間有的你就是不做沒有基因育種就沒有競爭你沒有效率的提升台灣豬籠\n\n34\n00:12:22,827 --> 00:12:41,337\n根本沒有生產的空間本席在這邊要求下次的農業部的質詢前請部長先提交這本席要求的這三項作業進度報告如果你的進度不符合本席的具體要求那就只好請你再來立法院親自說明進度報告跟接受立法院的問責請回應謝謝\n\n35\n00:12:44,192 --> 00:13:01,227\n我先跟委員報告您三項裡面的第三項絕對做不到六個月之內做不到那您說什麼時候因為本身你要講那個什麼方法論沒問題你就講個時辰方法論至少要一年沒關係沒問題這個都可以好那一年就一年後我要跟委員\n\n36\n00:13:02,188 --> 00:13:22,911\n你要提早六個月內公告查案變成一年內公告查案我都接受我們可以完成但是要公告的時候還要非常多的程序但是我們會把這個進度好那我就改為一年內完成方法論好嗎可以嗎可以這樣可以然後另外我要跟委員報告基因改良不是基因改造這兩件事完全不一樣\n\n37\n00:13:23,752 --> 00:13:27,795\n可是你們的預算寫基因改良喔對基因改良你們的預算書我看得很清楚喔所以你要調整一下喔我跟委員講我學資料科學的基因改良就是我們的一般傳統育種你講的基因定性也是傳統的育種我們是基因學我們是優生學\n\n38\n00:13:42,243 --> 00:14:06,979\n也能夠抗抗熱那是不是我們這相關的部分有歧義的部分我們是不是到我們戴華委員的部分主席是不是您可以裁示一下我本席這三個具體要求租資總緣DNA的部分一個月內聽起來部長是可以接受的租資維生物的安全地圖兩個月內第一個跟第二個依照戴華委員的說法提供到委員那邊去\n\n39\n00:14:09,801 --> 00:14:35,672\n第三個部分我們改為一年內公報方法學我們戴華委員所提的第一項跟第二項我們請農業部一個月到我們的委員辦公室提出說明然後呢在第三項這個方法論的部分就是一年內來提出我們怎麼樣具體來做這樣的一個方法論述的部分那我們今天感謝主席採視謝謝\n\n40\n00:14:37,593 --> 00:14:38,775\n謝謝我們丹華委員的質詢謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3318\t3640\t有請部長有請部長\n11758\t39366\t這個我針對這個租價從去年本席11月提醒到現在我們的租價沒有最高只有更高從去年11月質詢到現在的提醒你們櫃部本來是可以匆匆容容的所以不至於游刃有餘但是現在是匆匆忙忙連滾帶爬我們現在的租價全球第二高好\n40126\t57739\t那在這邊針對美國對等關稅及232的談判壓力本行認為美國對台要求農產品市場開放是非常大的可能如果真的走向開放我國的農民要怎麼辦沒有政府的保障也沒有生產效益的提升台灣的農業競爭得過美國的農企業嗎\n61201\t69284\t我就以今年的豬肉來看我國的生產成本現在是每公斤92塊比美國的每公斤低於68塊高出了20%到30%也就是說美國的美投豬生產的成本是台灣美投豬生產成本不到7成\n80248\t99063\t也就是現在美國豬肉空運來台都比國產豬便宜如果現在農業部還不馬上立即進行你的科技育種也就是基因定序來提升你的豬隻生產效率眼見大量進口豬肉就會有三輸三沒有\n99743\t118283\t農業沒有任性 農民沒有出入消費者沒有便宜的豬肉我這邊要點醒的你們的預算書這邊有講到豬隻基因改良這是錯誤 這一筆我一定刪我講連我們的豆漿 黃豆我們一般市民都不講基改了\n119043\t130676\t連豆漿我們都不吃雞改黃豆了你在預算當中還編了豬隻基因改良本席強調的是科技一種優生學不是基因改造好 而市場零關稅對於民眾的消費市場來講真的有幫忙嗎我要講的三書的書\n138324\t161320\t連消費者沒有便宜的豬肉如果未來面對大量進口豬的話我就以今年紐西蘭鮮奶今年1月1號開始零關稅便利店的牛奶售價有降低嗎一塊錢都沒有降農業部說我們穩定零售價格保護台灣弱農補貼弱農本席贊成沒意見但是零關稅了牛奶的售價沒有\n161920\t178463\t沒有降價消費者的權益誰來保護合理的懷疑你進口商就從中獲得了超額的報酬好我們看這個去年的承諾台灣農業政策缺乏戰略規劃尤其在自衛化的農業遠遠落後這是本期去年的資訊\n179304\t200907\t到現在了而且那時候你回應了我一個月內會提出書面報告規劃基因定序AI技術應用的計畫期望以此為起點帶動台灣榮畜產業的提升增強台灣豬肉在國際市場的競爭力經過了一年了農業部的進度為何好我本席再次的所知\n201848\t228464\t從今年的1月到今年的9月你們只成立了叫做豬隻育成應用隊小組這8個字2468一個月一個字好現在呢已經到10月了好這個豬價飆漲去年11月本席提醒了農業部如果不盡快啟動我國的豬隻種源基因定序計畫以智慧化的養殖我國的豬續產就會出現大問題果然是一年後一羽成塵\n229564\t258063\t從今年的端午豬肉的需求量五月均價飆三年新高到中秋節每公斤破百元全球第二高那這個豬價的高漲是表象供應的萎縮才是核心問題所以啊你們說啊這個因為疾病啊天差啊天氣炎熱啊導致豬隻育種偏低啊本息一一的破解二在今年七月的時候毛豬的\n259303\t286020\t價格是達到106.3元8月更突破了108元這個全球第二高近30年來新高這是你們提供的數據喔好我們看民間全國養豬協會8月的報告說了什麼他說今年的今年的1到8月是去年1到8月當中兩個月內這個61天出頭的出豬頭數低於2萬比去年同期的下降22%\n287541\t314877\t所以 租價的飆漲不是市場的榮景不是你的品質的提高這個 而是你的供給嚴重的萎縮好 那你說好了 萎縮是疾病沒有錯 這也是一個事實但是呢 你的這個蘭耳病啊感染率達27% 流行性的腹瀉呢南部的育成廠發生率達18%所以北中南的育成率都普遍低於50%\n316678\t334250\t所以呢 農民講啦 豬價高啦但是豬卻養不起因為疾病這個肆虐好 這個肆虐你們當然有百分百的責任因為你們農業部連國內養豬場的疾病分布資料都沒有掌握\n334770\t351319\t沒有資料如何治理如何管理如何優化生產效率而且農業部我相信部長應該要掌握今年南部超過三成的豬農在減難停養這個數字我相信你應該要掌握的好再來你們講到天氣\n354223\t360046\t這個台灣成為亞洲唯一三大病株非疫區國家之後生產效率為何沒提升你說天氣熱25 28度之後這個氣溫確實豬就吃不下了可是你看同樣氣候比我們更炎熱的氣候是熱的巴西在拔針之後的非疫區它為何成為豬肉出口大國\n378513\t395527\t好 你們的報告 農業部的國家豬隻續產產業政策書面報告說我們的豬隻 美投母豬平均生產上市的豬肉頭數比丹麥 荷蘭 西班牙 美國 加拿大22-35頭水準為低 這個意思是什麼\n399170\t424955\t也就是說一頭母豬他的全體的生育週期最多可以生40隻小豬這40隻小豬在這些先進國家當中他可以有22到35豬35隻是可以出售到市面的本國就只有15隻以下那你們的理由叫什麼呢氣候炎熱提供病媒這病原的極佳的資深環境確實你們掌握的病\n425655\t444506\t這個病款 這個病的這個的種類什麼假性狂大的PRV PRRS PCV2 PED但是你農業部根本沒有掌握養豬場 維生物安全環境 菌項\n445487\t450871\t也就是人跟人是會移動的所有人只要一移動你的你的這樣的每一個豬場的病菌就會相互感染當然你就是會生病嘛所以呢這個其實還是你根本的你的資料沒有掌握好以及希望呢希望你們能夠未來針對維生物安全的環境病相能夠掌握能夠的就是降低疾病的傳染風險提高育成力而不是再把天氣\n475429\t493495\t當作你的產量減少的藉口巴西做得到比我們更熱做到你為什麼做不到好再來看到了這個國際競爭壓力豬農如何自保根據美國農業部USDA跟WTO的談判美國要求對台豬肉的關稅調降10%\n495556\t500582\t你看國際談判多麼的險惡從這個美台的關稅對我們農業部的進逼他還透過美國還透過WTO要求透過WTO來跟我們講說你還要降到10%你看這是多麼險峻這個本席感同身受但是\n515160\t535218\t在這個丹麥農業理事會的報告丹麥豬的飼料轉換效率我就以丹麥就好了他2.6公斤的飼料養1公斤的豬肉我們台灣是什麼3.4到3.6公斤的飼料養一頭豬啊你的豬哪有成本哪有效率啊\n535758\t553243\t好 就算兩邊價格都一樣美國租大量進口到台灣來租價一樣好了啦國外租的成本還是比我們少了25%到30%還是成本低啊 還是成本啊 結果誰得利啊你說要補助豬農 本席沒意見誰得利 貿易商得利\n553963\t581104\t消費者有沒有得利 沒有因為弱農就給我擺進口牛奶就活生生的擺在前面零關稅的牛奶竟然消費者沒有受益好 再來在這種競爭條件下如果你們貴部如果沒有強化種源基因我要講非基因改造你那一筆預算我覺得3提升生產效率建立防疫韌性只怕台灣豬農完全沒有勝算\n581644\t607327\t好 再如何的進逼呢台灣豬肉在日本市場佔有率曾經達40%1997年後口蹄爆發幾乎歸零 如今的口蹄解除了我們出口不能恢復的主因三個品系不穩 土體規格不一 品牌力不足農業部再說的是復興台灣豬到目前為止只看到補助沒看到升級你看看你的簡報當中你還很洋洋灑灑講到弱農\n609809\t623658\t好 酪農你只做到兩件事情你這個酪農 這個你的簡報第一個 品質優化 品質控管第二個 通路的這個煤盒所以呢今天你這個2025年編列多少預算是用於基因育種0\n625379\t642636\t是否能在一個月內提交本席要求台灣株枝DNA資料庫的行動白皮書好 我具體要求這兩頁 這三項實成責任公開報告第一個 建立株枝種源DNA資料庫的建置第二個 株枝微生物的安全\n643277\t661639\t地圖第三個國產豬品牌標示的制度這個國產豬的標示不是CAS而是你剛才講到了這個碳混沸你們的自主碳你們講到了這個水有海帶講到了森林講到了土壤\n663081\t687730\t拜託這個牛 續產業才是真的碳的最大的排放 排碳啦排碳大戶啊所以你這邊的國產豬隻的不是區別於CS而且是要求具有節能減碳的生產藝術以提高自願碳費好這三項我各有要求時程一個月內提出DNA的這個\n688510\t713866\t資料庫兩個月內啟動四點計畫的豬隻維生物的安全地區你的疫情的掌握你的疾病在哪一個哪一個豬場你能百分百掌握包括他商邊的這個郡巷的一個蒐集包括半年內公告草案國產豬品牌的標章而是具有檢人檢探生產因素的提高自願碳費的這樣的生產標章再者\n714346\t741826\t最後2025年的租價不是榮警而是警訊這不是榮民貪心也不是市場異常而是政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰租資的租價沒有最高而有更高這件事情是因為你政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰沒有基因育種這個都是成熟在國際間有的你就是不做沒有基因育種就沒有競爭你沒有效率的提升台灣豬籠\n742827\t761337\t根本沒有生產的空間本席在這邊要求下次的農業部的質詢前請部長先提交這本席要求的這三項作業進度報告如果你的進度不符合本席的具體要求那就只好請你再來立法院親自說明進度報告跟接受立法院的問責請回應 謝謝\n764192\t781227\t我先跟委員報告您三項裡面的第三項絕對做不到六個月之內做不到那您說什麼時候因為本身你要講那個什麼方法論沒問題你就講個時辰方法論至少要一年沒關係沒問題這個都可以好那一年就一年後我要跟委員\n782188\t802911\t你要提早六個月內公告查案變成一年內公告查案我都接受我們可以完成但是要公告的時候還要非常多的程序但是我們會把這個進度好 那我就改為一年內完成方法論好嗎 可以嗎可以 這樣可以然後另外我要跟委員報告基因改良不是基因改造這兩件事完全不一樣\n803752\t807795\t可是你們的預算寫基因改良喔對 基因改良你們的預算書我看得很清楚喔所以你要調整一下喔我跟委員講我學資料科學的基因改良就是我們的一般傳統育種你講的基因定性也是傳統的育種我們是基因學我們是優生學\n822243\t846979\t也能夠抗 抗熱那是不是我們這相關的部分有歧義的部分我們是不是到我們戴華委員的部分主席是不是您可以裁示一下我本席這三個具體要求租資總緣DNA的部分一個月內聽起來部長是可以接受的租資維生物的安全地圖兩個月內第一個跟第二個依照戴華委員的說法提供到委員那邊去\n849801\t875672\t第三個部分我們改為一年內公報方法學我們戴華委員所提的第一項跟第二項我們請農業部一個月到我們的委員辦公室提出說明然後呢在第三項這個方法論的部分就是一年內來提出我們怎麼樣具體來做這樣的一個方法論述的部分那我們今天感謝主席採視 謝謝\n877593\t878775\t謝謝我們丹華委員的質詢 謝謝部長\n","txt":"有請部長有請部長\n這個我針對這個租價從去年本席11月提醒到現在我們的租價沒有最高只有更高從去年11月質詢到現在的提醒你們櫃部本來是可以匆匆容容的所以不至於游刃有餘但是現在是匆匆忙忙連滾帶爬我們現在的租價全球第二高好\n那在這邊針對美國對等關稅及232的談判壓力本行認為美國對台要求農產品市場開放是非常大的可能如果真的走向開放我國的農民要怎麼辦沒有政府的保障也沒有生產效益的提升台灣的農業競爭得過美國的農企業嗎\n我就以今年的豬肉來看我國的生產成本現在是每公斤92塊比美國的每公斤低於68塊高出了20%到30%也就是說美國的美投豬生產的成本是台灣美投豬生產成本不到7成\n也就是現在美國豬肉空運來台都比國產豬便宜如果現在農業部還不馬上立即進行你的科技育種也就是基因定序來提升你的豬隻生產效率眼見大量進口豬肉就會有三輸三沒有\n農業沒有任性 農民沒有出入消費者沒有便宜的豬肉我這邊要點醒的你們的預算書這邊有講到豬隻基因改良這是錯誤 這一筆我一定刪我講連我們的豆漿 黃豆我們一般市民都不講基改了\n連豆漿我們都不吃雞改黃豆了你在預算當中還編了豬隻基因改良本席強調的是科技一種優生學不是基因改造好 而市場零關稅對於民眾的消費市場來講真的有幫忙嗎我要講的三書的書\n連消費者沒有便宜的豬肉如果未來面對大量進口豬的話我就以今年紐西蘭鮮奶今年1月1號開始零關稅便利店的牛奶售價有降低嗎一塊錢都沒有降農業部說我們穩定零售價格保護台灣弱農補貼弱農本席贊成沒意見但是零關稅了牛奶的售價沒有\n沒有降價消費者的權益誰來保護合理的懷疑你進口商就從中獲得了超額的報酬好我們看這個去年的承諾台灣農業政策缺乏戰略規劃尤其在自衛化的農業遠遠落後這是本期去年的資訊\n到現在了而且那時候你回應了我一個月內會提出書面報告規劃基因定序AI技術應用的計畫期望以此為起點帶動台灣榮畜產業的提升增強台灣豬肉在國際市場的競爭力經過了一年了農業部的進度為何好我本席再次的所知\n從今年的1月到今年的9月你們只成立了叫做豬隻育成應用隊小組這8個字2468一個月一個字好現在呢已經到10月了好這個豬價飆漲去年11月本席提醒了農業部如果不盡快啟動我國的豬隻種源基因定序計畫以智慧化的養殖我國的豬續產就會出現大問題果然是一年後一羽成塵\n從今年的端午豬肉的需求量五月均價飆三年新高到中秋節每公斤破百元全球第二高那這個豬價的高漲是表象供應的萎縮才是核心問題所以啊你們說啊這個因為疾病啊天差啊天氣炎熱啊導致豬隻育種偏低啊本息一一的破解二在今年七月的時候毛豬的\n價格是達到106.3元8月更突破了108元這個全球第二高近30年來新高這是你們提供的數據喔好我們看民間全國養豬協會8月的報告說了什麼他說今年的今年的1到8月是去年1到8月當中兩個月內這個61天出頭的出豬頭數低於2萬比去年同期的下降22%\n所以 租價的飆漲不是市場的榮景不是你的品質的提高這個 而是你的供給嚴重的萎縮好 那你說好了 萎縮是疾病沒有錯 這也是一個事實但是呢 你的這個蘭耳病啊感染率達27% 流行性的腹瀉呢南部的育成廠發生率達18%所以北中南的育成率都普遍低於50%\n所以呢 農民講啦 豬價高啦但是豬卻養不起因為疾病這個肆虐好 這個肆虐你們當然有百分百的責任因為你們農業部連國內養豬場的疾病分布資料都沒有掌握\n沒有資料如何治理如何管理如何優化生產效率而且農業部我相信部長應該要掌握今年南部超過三成的豬農在減難停養這個數字我相信你應該要掌握的好再來你們講到天氣\n這個台灣成為亞洲唯一三大病株非疫區國家之後生產效率為何沒提升你說天氣熱25 28度之後這個氣溫確實豬就吃不下了可是你看同樣氣候比我們更炎熱的氣候是熱的巴西在拔針之後的非疫區它為何成為豬肉出口大國\n好 你們的報告 農業部的國家豬隻續產產業政策書面報告說我們的豬隻 美投母豬平均生產上市的豬肉頭數比丹麥 荷蘭 西班牙 美國 加拿大22-35頭水準為低 這個意思是什麼\n也就是說一頭母豬他的全體的生育週期最多可以生40隻小豬這40隻小豬在這些先進國家當中他可以有22到35豬35隻是可以出售到市面的本國就只有15隻以下那你們的理由叫什麼呢氣候炎熱提供病媒這病原的極佳的資深環境確實你們掌握的病\n這個病款 這個病的這個的種類什麼假性狂大的PRV PRRS PCV2 PED但是你農業部根本沒有掌握養豬場 維生物安全環境 菌項\n也就是人跟人是會移動的所有人只要一移動你的你的這樣的每一個豬場的病菌就會相互感染當然你就是會生病嘛所以呢這個其實還是你根本的你的資料沒有掌握好以及希望呢希望你們能夠未來針對維生物安全的環境病相能夠掌握能夠的就是降低疾病的傳染風險提高育成力而不是再把天氣\n當作你的產量減少的藉口巴西做得到比我們更熱做到你為什麼做不到好再來看到了這個國際競爭壓力豬農如何自保根據美國農業部USDA跟WTO的談判美國要求對台豬肉的關稅調降10%\n你看國際談判多麼的險惡從這個美台的關稅對我們農業部的進逼他還透過美國還透過WTO要求透過WTO來跟我們講說你還要降到10%你看這是多麼險峻這個本席感同身受但是\n在這個丹麥農業理事會的報告丹麥豬的飼料轉換效率我就以丹麥就好了他2.6公斤的飼料養1公斤的豬肉我們台灣是什麼3.4到3.6公斤的飼料養一頭豬啊你的豬哪有成本哪有效率啊\n好 就算兩邊價格都一樣美國租大量進口到台灣來租價一樣好了啦國外租的成本還是比我們少了25%到30%還是成本低啊 還是成本啊 結果誰得利啊你說要補助豬農 本席沒意見誰得利 貿易商得利\n消費者有沒有得利 沒有因為弱農就給我擺進口牛奶就活生生的擺在前面零關稅的牛奶竟然消費者沒有受益好 再來在這種競爭條件下如果你們貴部如果沒有強化種源基因我要講非基因改造你那一筆預算我覺得3提升生產效率建立防疫韌性只怕台灣豬農完全沒有勝算\n好 再如何的進逼呢台灣豬肉在日本市場佔有率曾經達40%1997年後口蹄爆發幾乎歸零 如今的口蹄解除了我們出口不能恢復的主因三個品系不穩 土體規格不一 品牌力不足農業部再說的是復興台灣豬到目前為止只看到補助沒看到升級你看看你的簡報當中你還很洋洋灑灑講到弱農\n好 酪農你只做到兩件事情你這個酪農 這個你的簡報第一個 品質優化 品質控管第二個 通路的這個煤盒所以呢今天你這個2025年編列多少預算是用於基因育種0\n是否能在一個月內提交本席要求台灣株枝DNA資料庫的行動白皮書好 我具體要求這兩頁 這三項實成責任公開報告第一個 建立株枝種源DNA資料庫的建置第二個 株枝微生物的安全\n地圖第三個國產豬品牌標示的制度這個國產豬的標示不是CAS而是你剛才講到了這個碳混沸你們的自主碳你們講到了這個水有海帶講到了森林講到了土壤\n拜託這個牛 續產業才是真的碳的最大的排放 排碳啦排碳大戶啊所以你這邊的國產豬隻的不是區別於CS而且是要求具有節能減碳的生產藝術以提高自願碳費好這三項我各有要求時程一個月內提出DNA的這個\n資料庫兩個月內啟動四點計畫的豬隻維生物的安全地區你的疫情的掌握你的疾病在哪一個哪一個豬場你能百分百掌握包括他商邊的這個郡巷的一個蒐集包括半年內公告草案國產豬品牌的標章而是具有檢人檢探生產因素的提高自願碳費的這樣的生產標章再者\n最後2025年的租價不是榮警而是警訊這不是榮民貪心也不是市場異常而是政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰租資的租價沒有最高而有更高這件事情是因為你政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰沒有基因育種這個都是成熟在國際間有的你就是不做沒有基因育種就沒有競爭你沒有效率的提升台灣豬籠\n根本沒有生產的空間本席在這邊要求下次的農業部的質詢前請部長先提交這本席要求的這三項作業進度報告如果你的進度不符合本席的具體要求那就只好請你再來立法院親自說明進度報告跟接受立法院的問責請回應 謝謝\n我先跟委員報告您三項裡面的第三項絕對做不到六個月之內做不到那您說什麼時候因為本身你要講那個什麼方法論沒問題你就講個時辰方法論至少要一年沒關係沒問題這個都可以好那一年就一年後我要跟委員\n你要提早六個月內公告查案變成一年內公告查案我都接受我們可以完成但是要公告的時候還要非常多的程序但是我們會把這個進度好 那我就改為一年內完成方法論好嗎 可以嗎可以 這樣可以然後另外我要跟委員報告基因改良不是基因改造這兩件事完全不一樣\n可是你們的預算寫基因改良喔對 基因改良你們的預算書我看得很清楚喔所以你要調整一下喔我跟委員講我學資料科學的基因改良就是我們的一般傳統育種你講的基因定性也是傳統的育種我們是基因學我們是優生學\n也能夠抗 抗熱那是不是我們這相關的部分有歧義的部分我們是不是到我們戴華委員的部分主席是不是您可以裁示一下我本席這三個具體要求租資總緣DNA的部分一個月內聽起來部長是可以接受的租資維生物的安全地圖兩個月內第一個跟第二個依照戴華委員的說法提供到委員那邊去\n第三個部分我們改為一年內公報方法學我們戴華委員所提的第一項跟第二項我們請農業部一個月到我們的委員辦公室提出說明然後呢在第三項這個方法論的部分就是一年內來提出我們怎麼樣具體來做這樣的一個方法論述的部分那我們今天感謝主席採視 謝謝\n謝謝我們丹華委員的質詢 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.318 --> 00:03.640\n有請部長有請部長\n\n00:11.758 --> 00:39.366\n這個我針對這個租價從去年本席11月提醒到現在我們的租價沒有最高只有更高從去年11月質詢到現在的提醒你們櫃部本來是可以匆匆容容的所以不至於游刃有餘但是現在是匆匆忙忙連滾帶爬我們現在的租價全球第二高好\n\n00:40.126 --> 00:57.739\n那在這邊針對美國對等關稅及232的談判壓力本行認為美國對台要求農產品市場開放是非常大的可能如果真的走向開放我國的農民要怎麼辦沒有政府的保障也沒有生產效益的提升台灣的農業競爭得過美國的農企業嗎\n\n01:01.201 --> 01:09.284\n我就以今年的豬肉來看我國的生產成本現在是每公斤92塊比美國的每公斤低於68塊高出了20%到30%也就是說美國的美投豬生產的成本是台灣美投豬生產成本不到7成\n\n01:20.248 --> 01:39.063\n也就是現在美國豬肉空運來台都比國產豬便宜如果現在農業部還不馬上立即進行你的科技育種也就是基因定序來提升你的豬隻生產效率眼見大量進口豬肉就會有三輸三沒有\n\n01:39.743 --> 01:58.283\n農業沒有任性農民沒有出入消費者沒有便宜的豬肉我這邊要點醒的你們的預算書這邊有講到豬隻基因改良這是錯誤這一筆我一定刪我講連我們的豆漿黃豆我們一般市民都不講基改了\n\n01:59.043 --> 02:10.676\n連豆漿我們都不吃雞改黃豆了你在預算當中還編了豬隻基因改良本席強調的是科技一種優生學不是基因改造好而市場零關稅對於民眾的消費市場來講真的有幫忙嗎我要講的三書的書\n\n02:18.324 --> 02:41.320\n連消費者沒有便宜的豬肉如果未來面對大量進口豬的話我就以今年紐西蘭鮮奶今年1月1號開始零關稅便利店的牛奶售價有降低嗎一塊錢都沒有降農業部說我們穩定零售價格保護台灣弱農補貼弱農本席贊成沒意見但是零關稅了牛奶的售價沒有\n\n02:41.920 --> 02:58.463\n沒有降價消費者的權益誰來保護合理的懷疑你進口商就從中獲得了超額的報酬好我們看這個去年的承諾台灣農業政策缺乏戰略規劃尤其在自衛化的農業遠遠落後這是本期去年的資訊\n\n02:59.304 --> 03:20.907\n到現在了而且那時候你回應了我一個月內會提出書面報告規劃基因定序AI技術應用的計畫期望以此為起點帶動台灣榮畜產業的提升增強台灣豬肉在國際市場的競爭力經過了一年了農業部的進度為何好我本席再次的所知\n\n03:21.848 --> 03:48.464\n從今年的1月到今年的9月你們只成立了叫做豬隻育成應用隊小組這8個字2468一個月一個字好現在呢已經到10月了好這個豬價飆漲去年11月本席提醒了農業部如果不盡快啟動我國的豬隻種源基因定序計畫以智慧化的養殖我國的豬續產就會出現大問題果然是一年後一羽成塵\n\n03:49.564 --> 04:18.063\n從今年的端午豬肉的需求量五月均價飆三年新高到中秋節每公斤破百元全球第二高那這個豬價的高漲是表象供應的萎縮才是核心問題所以啊你們說啊這個因為疾病啊天差啊天氣炎熱啊導致豬隻育種偏低啊本息一一的破解二在今年七月的時候毛豬的\n\n04:19.303 --> 04:46.020\n價格是達到106.3元8月更突破了108元這個全球第二高近30年來新高這是你們提供的數據喔好我們看民間全國養豬協會8月的報告說了什麼他說今年的今年的1到8月是去年1到8月當中兩個月內這個61天出頭的出豬頭數低於2萬比去年同期的下降22%\n\n04:47.541 --> 05:14.877\n所以租價的飆漲不是市場的榮景不是你的品質的提高這個而是你的供給嚴重的萎縮好那你說好了萎縮是疾病沒有錯這也是一個事實但是呢你的這個蘭耳病啊感染率達27%流行性的腹瀉呢南部的育成廠發生率達18%所以北中南的育成率都普遍低於50%\n\n05:16.678 --> 05:34.250\n所以呢農民講啦豬價高啦但是豬卻養不起因為疾病這個肆虐好這個肆虐你們當然有百分百的責任因為你們農業部連國內養豬場的疾病分布資料都沒有掌握\n\n05:34.770 --> 05:51.319\n沒有資料如何治理如何管理如何優化生產效率而且農業部我相信部長應該要掌握今年南部超過三成的豬農在減難停養這個數字我相信你應該要掌握的好再來你們講到天氣\n\n05:54.223 --> 06:00.046\n這個台灣成為亞洲唯一三大病株非疫區國家之後生產效率為何沒提升你說天氣熱2528度之後這個氣溫確實豬就吃不下了可是你看同樣氣候比我們更炎熱的氣候是熱的巴西在拔針之後的非疫區它為何成為豬肉出口大國\n\n06:18.513 --> 06:35.527\n好你們的報告農業部的國家豬隻續產產業政策書面報告說我們的豬隻美投母豬平均生產上市的豬肉頭數比丹麥荷蘭西班牙美國加拿大22-35頭水準為低這個意思是什麼\n\n06:39.170 --> 07:04.955\n也就是說一頭母豬他的全體的生育週期最多可以生40隻小豬這40隻小豬在這些先進國家當中他可以有22到35豬35隻是可以出售到市面的本國就只有15隻以下那你們的理由叫什麼呢氣候炎熱提供病媒這病原的極佳的資深環境確實你們掌握的病\n\n07:05.655 --> 07:24.506\n這個病款這個病的這個的種類什麼假性狂大的PRVPRRSPCV2PED但是你農業部根本沒有掌握養豬場維生物安全環境菌項\n\n07:25.487 --> 07:30.871\n也就是人跟人是會移動的所有人只要一移動你的你的這樣的每一個豬場的病菌就會相互感染當然你就是會生病嘛所以呢這個其實還是你根本的你的資料沒有掌握好以及希望呢希望你們能夠未來針對維生物安全的環境病相能夠掌握能夠的就是降低疾病的傳染風險提高育成力而不是再把天氣\n\n07:55.429 --> 08:13.495\n當作你的產量減少的藉口巴西做得到比我們更熱做到你為什麼做不到好再來看到了這個國際競爭壓力豬農如何自保根據美國農業部USDA跟WTO的談判美國要求對台豬肉的關稅調降10%\n\n08:15.556 --> 08:20.582\n你看國際談判多麼的險惡從這個美台的關稅對我們農業部的進逼他還透過美國還透過WTO要求透過WTO來跟我們講說你還要降到10%你看這是多麼險峻這個本席感同身受但是\n\n08:35.160 --> 08:55.218\n在這個丹麥農業理事會的報告丹麥豬的飼料轉換效率我就以丹麥就好了他2.6公斤的飼料養1公斤的豬肉我們台灣是什麼3.4到3.6公斤的飼料養一頭豬啊你的豬哪有成本哪有效率啊\n\n08:55.758 --> 09:13.243\n好就算兩邊價格都一樣美國租大量進口到台灣來租價一樣好了啦國外租的成本還是比我們少了25%到30%還是成本低啊還是成本啊結果誰得利啊你說要補助豬農本席沒意見誰得利貿易商得利\n\n09:13.963 --> 09:41.104\n消費者有沒有得利沒有因為弱農就給我擺進口牛奶就活生生的擺在前面零關稅的牛奶竟然消費者沒有受益好再來在這種競爭條件下如果你們貴部如果沒有強化種源基因我要講非基因改造你那一筆預算我覺得3提升生產效率建立防疫韌性只怕台灣豬農完全沒有勝算\n\n09:41.644 --> 10:07.327\n好再如何的進逼呢台灣豬肉在日本市場佔有率曾經達40%1997年後口蹄爆發幾乎歸零如今的口蹄解除了我們出口不能恢復的主因三個品系不穩土體規格不一品牌力不足農業部再說的是復興台灣豬到目前為止只看到補助沒看到升級你看看你的簡報當中你還很洋洋灑灑講到弱農\n\n10:09.809 --> 10:23.658\n好酪農你只做到兩件事情你這個酪農這個你的簡報第一個品質優化品質控管第二個通路的這個煤盒所以呢今天你這個2025年編列多少預算是用於基因育種0\n\n10:25.379 --> 10:42.636\n是否能在一個月內提交本席要求台灣株枝DNA資料庫的行動白皮書好我具體要求這兩頁這三項實成責任公開報告第一個建立株枝種源DNA資料庫的建置第二個株枝微生物的安全\n\n10:43.277 --> 11:01.639\n地圖第三個國產豬品牌標示的制度這個國產豬的標示不是CAS而是你剛才講到了這個碳混沸你們的自主碳你們講到了這個水有海帶講到了森林講到了土壤\n\n11:03.081 --> 11:27.730\n拜託這個牛續產業才是真的碳的最大的排放排碳啦排碳大戶啊所以你這邊的國產豬隻的不是區別於CS而且是要求具有節能減碳的生產藝術以提高自願碳費好這三項我各有要求時程一個月內提出DNA的這個\n\n11:28.510 --> 11:53.866\n資料庫兩個月內啟動四點計畫的豬隻維生物的安全地區你的疫情的掌握你的疾病在哪一個哪一個豬場你能百分百掌握包括他商邊的這個郡巷的一個蒐集包括半年內公告草案國產豬品牌的標章而是具有檢人檢探生產因素的提高自願碳費的這樣的生產標章再者\n\n11:54.346 --> 12:21.826\n最後2025年的租價不是榮警而是警訊這不是榮民貪心也不是市場異常而是政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰租資的租價沒有最高而有更高這件事情是因為你政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰沒有基因育種這個都是成熟在國際間有的你就是不做沒有基因育種就沒有競爭你沒有效率的提升台灣豬籠\n\n12:22.827 --> 12:41.337\n根本沒有生產的空間本席在這邊要求下次的農業部的質詢前請部長先提交這本席要求的這三項作業進度報告如果你的進度不符合本席的具體要求那就只好請你再來立法院親自說明進度報告跟接受立法院的問責請回應謝謝\n\n12:44.192 --> 13:01.227\n我先跟委員報告您三項裡面的第三項絕對做不到六個月之內做不到那您說什麼時候因為本身你要講那個什麼方法論沒問題你就講個時辰方法論至少要一年沒關係沒問題這個都可以好那一年就一年後我要跟委員\n\n13:02.188 --> 13:22.911\n你要提早六個月內公告查案變成一年內公告查案我都接受我們可以完成但是要公告的時候還要非常多的程序但是我們會把這個進度好那我就改為一年內完成方法論好嗎可以嗎可以這樣可以然後另外我要跟委員報告基因改良不是基因改造這兩件事完全不一樣\n\n13:23.752 --> 13:27.795\n可是你們的預算寫基因改良喔對基因改良你們的預算書我看得很清楚喔所以你要調整一下喔我跟委員講我學資料科學的基因改良就是我們的一般傳統育種你講的基因定性也是傳統的育種我們是基因學我們是優生學\n\n13:42.243 --> 14:06.979\n也能夠抗抗熱那是不是我們這相關的部分有歧義的部分我們是不是到我們戴華委員的部分主席是不是您可以裁示一下我本席這三個具體要求租資總緣DNA的部分一個月內聽起來部長是可以接受的租資維生物的安全地圖兩個月內第一個跟第二個依照戴華委員的說法提供到委員那邊去\n\n14:09.801 --> 14:35.672\n第三個部分我們改為一年內公報方法學我們戴華委員所提的第一項跟第二項我們請農業部一個月到我們的委員辦公室提出說明然後呢在第三項這個方法論的部分就是一年內來提出我們怎麼樣具體來做這樣的一個方法論述的部分那我們今天感謝主席採視謝謝\n\n14:37.593 --> 14:38.775\n謝謝我們丹華委員的質詢謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.318,"end":3.64,"text":"有請部長有請部長"},{"start":11.758,"end":39.366,"text":"這個我針對這個租價從去年本席11月提醒到現在我們的租價沒有最高只有更高從去年11月質詢到現在的提醒你們櫃部本來是可以匆匆容容的所以不至於游刃有餘但是現在是匆匆忙忙連滾帶爬我們現在的租價全球第二高好"},{"start":40.126,"end":57.739,"text":"那在這邊針對美國對等關稅及232的談判壓力本行認為美國對台要求農產品市場開放是非常大的可能如果真的走向開放我國的農民要怎麼辦沒有政府的保障也沒有生產效益的提升台灣的農業競爭得過美國的農企業嗎"},{"start":61.201,"end":69.284,"text":"我就以今年的豬肉來看我國的生產成本現在是每公斤92塊比美國的每公斤低於68塊高出了20%到30%也就是說美國的美投豬生產的成本是台灣美投豬生產成本不到7成"},{"start":80.248,"end":99.063,"text":"也就是現在美國豬肉空運來台都比國產豬便宜如果現在農業部還不馬上立即進行你的科技育種也就是基因定序來提升你的豬隻生產效率眼見大量進口豬肉就會有三輸三沒有"},{"start":99.743,"end":118.283,"text":"農業沒有任性 農民沒有出入消費者沒有便宜的豬肉我這邊要點醒的你們的預算書這邊有講到豬隻基因改良這是錯誤 這一筆我一定刪我講連我們的豆漿 黃豆我們一般市民都不講基改了"},{"start":119.043,"end":130.676,"text":"連豆漿我們都不吃雞改黃豆了你在預算當中還編了豬隻基因改良本席強調的是科技一種優生學不是基因改造好 而市場零關稅對於民眾的消費市場來講真的有幫忙嗎我要講的三書的書"},{"start":138.324,"end":161.32,"text":"連消費者沒有便宜的豬肉如果未來面對大量進口豬的話我就以今年紐西蘭鮮奶今年1月1號開始零關稅便利店的牛奶售價有降低嗎一塊錢都沒有降農業部說我們穩定零售價格保護台灣弱農補貼弱農本席贊成沒意見但是零關稅了牛奶的售價沒有"},{"start":161.92,"end":178.463,"text":"沒有降價消費者的權益誰來保護合理的懷疑你進口商就從中獲得了超額的報酬好我們看這個去年的承諾台灣農業政策缺乏戰略規劃尤其在自衛化的農業遠遠落後這是本期去年的資訊"},{"start":179.304,"end":200.907,"text":"到現在了而且那時候你回應了我一個月內會提出書面報告規劃基因定序AI技術應用的計畫期望以此為起點帶動台灣榮畜產業的提升增強台灣豬肉在國際市場的競爭力經過了一年了農業部的進度為何好我本席再次的所知"},{"start":201.848,"end":228.464,"text":"從今年的1月到今年的9月你們只成立了叫做豬隻育成應用隊小組這8個字2468一個月一個字好現在呢已經到10月了好這個豬價飆漲去年11月本席提醒了農業部如果不盡快啟動我國的豬隻種源基因定序計畫以智慧化的養殖我國的豬續產就會出現大問題果然是一年後一羽成塵"},{"start":229.564,"end":258.063,"text":"從今年的端午豬肉的需求量五月均價飆三年新高到中秋節每公斤破百元全球第二高那這個豬價的高漲是表象供應的萎縮才是核心問題所以啊你們說啊這個因為疾病啊天差啊天氣炎熱啊導致豬隻育種偏低啊本息一一的破解二在今年七月的時候毛豬的"},{"start":259.303,"end":286.02,"text":"價格是達到106.3元8月更突破了108元這個全球第二高近30年來新高這是你們提供的數據喔好我們看民間全國養豬協會8月的報告說了什麼他說今年的今年的1到8月是去年1到8月當中兩個月內這個61天出頭的出豬頭數低於2萬比去年同期的下降22%"},{"start":287.541,"end":314.877,"text":"所以 租價的飆漲不是市場的榮景不是你的品質的提高這個 而是你的供給嚴重的萎縮好 那你說好了 萎縮是疾病沒有錯 這也是一個事實但是呢 你的這個蘭耳病啊感染率達27% 流行性的腹瀉呢南部的育成廠發生率達18%所以北中南的育成率都普遍低於50%"},{"start":316.678,"end":334.25,"text":"所以呢 農民講啦 豬價高啦但是豬卻養不起因為疾病這個肆虐好 這個肆虐你們當然有百分百的責任因為你們農業部連國內養豬場的疾病分布資料都沒有掌握"},{"start":334.77,"end":351.319,"text":"沒有資料如何治理如何管理如何優化生產效率而且農業部我相信部長應該要掌握今年南部超過三成的豬農在減難停養這個數字我相信你應該要掌握的好再來你們講到天氣"},{"start":354.223,"end":360.046,"text":"這個台灣成為亞洲唯一三大病株非疫區國家之後生產效率為何沒提升你說天氣熱25 28度之後這個氣溫確實豬就吃不下了可是你看同樣氣候比我們更炎熱的氣候是熱的巴西在拔針之後的非疫區它為何成為豬肉出口大國"},{"start":378.513,"end":395.527,"text":"好 你們的報告 農業部的國家豬隻續產產業政策書面報告說我們的豬隻 美投母豬平均生產上市的豬肉頭數比丹麥 荷蘭 西班牙 美國 加拿大22-35頭水準為低 這個意思是什麼"},{"start":399.17,"end":424.955,"text":"也就是說一頭母豬他的全體的生育週期最多可以生40隻小豬這40隻小豬在這些先進國家當中他可以有22到35豬35隻是可以出售到市面的本國就只有15隻以下那你們的理由叫什麼呢氣候炎熱提供病媒這病原的極佳的資深環境確實你們掌握的病"},{"start":425.655,"end":444.506,"text":"這個病款 這個病的這個的種類什麼假性狂大的PRV PRRS PCV2 PED但是你農業部根本沒有掌握養豬場 維生物安全環境 菌項"},{"start":445.487,"end":450.871,"text":"也就是人跟人是會移動的所有人只要一移動你的你的這樣的每一個豬場的病菌就會相互感染當然你就是會生病嘛所以呢這個其實還是你根本的你的資料沒有掌握好以及希望呢希望你們能夠未來針對維生物安全的環境病相能夠掌握能夠的就是降低疾病的傳染風險提高育成力而不是再把天氣"},{"start":475.429,"end":493.495,"text":"當作你的產量減少的藉口巴西做得到比我們更熱做到你為什麼做不到好再來看到了這個國際競爭壓力豬農如何自保根據美國農業部USDA跟WTO的談判美國要求對台豬肉的關稅調降10%"},{"start":495.556,"end":500.582,"text":"你看國際談判多麼的險惡從這個美台的關稅對我們農業部的進逼他還透過美國還透過WTO要求透過WTO來跟我們講說你還要降到10%你看這是多麼險峻這個本席感同身受但是"},{"start":515.16,"end":535.218,"text":"在這個丹麥農業理事會的報告丹麥豬的飼料轉換效率我就以丹麥就好了他2.6公斤的飼料養1公斤的豬肉我們台灣是什麼3.4到3.6公斤的飼料養一頭豬啊你的豬哪有成本哪有效率啊"},{"start":535.758,"end":553.243,"text":"好 就算兩邊價格都一樣美國租大量進口到台灣來租價一樣好了啦國外租的成本還是比我們少了25%到30%還是成本低啊 還是成本啊 結果誰得利啊你說要補助豬農 本席沒意見誰得利 貿易商得利"},{"start":553.963,"end":581.104,"text":"消費者有沒有得利 沒有因為弱農就給我擺進口牛奶就活生生的擺在前面零關稅的牛奶竟然消費者沒有受益好 再來在這種競爭條件下如果你們貴部如果沒有強化種源基因我要講非基因改造你那一筆預算我覺得3提升生產效率建立防疫韌性只怕台灣豬農完全沒有勝算"},{"start":581.644,"end":607.327,"text":"好 再如何的進逼呢台灣豬肉在日本市場佔有率曾經達40%1997年後口蹄爆發幾乎歸零 如今的口蹄解除了我們出口不能恢復的主因三個品系不穩 土體規格不一 品牌力不足農業部再說的是復興台灣豬到目前為止只看到補助沒看到升級你看看你的簡報當中你還很洋洋灑灑講到弱農"},{"start":609.809,"end":623.658,"text":"好 酪農你只做到兩件事情你這個酪農 這個你的簡報第一個 品質優化 品質控管第二個 通路的這個煤盒所以呢今天你這個2025年編列多少預算是用於基因育種0"},{"start":625.379,"end":642.636,"text":"是否能在一個月內提交本席要求台灣株枝DNA資料庫的行動白皮書好 我具體要求這兩頁 這三項實成責任公開報告第一個 建立株枝種源DNA資料庫的建置第二個 株枝微生物的安全"},{"start":643.277,"end":661.639,"text":"地圖第三個國產豬品牌標示的制度這個國產豬的標示不是CAS而是你剛才講到了這個碳混沸你們的自主碳你們講到了這個水有海帶講到了森林講到了土壤"},{"start":663.081,"end":687.73,"text":"拜託這個牛 續產業才是真的碳的最大的排放 排碳啦排碳大戶啊所以你這邊的國產豬隻的不是區別於CS而且是要求具有節能減碳的生產藝術以提高自願碳費好這三項我各有要求時程一個月內提出DNA的這個"},{"start":688.51,"end":713.866,"text":"資料庫兩個月內啟動四點計畫的豬隻維生物的安全地區你的疫情的掌握你的疾病在哪一個哪一個豬場你能百分百掌握包括他商邊的這個郡巷的一個蒐集包括半年內公告草案國產豬品牌的標章而是具有檢人檢探生產因素的提高自願碳費的這樣的生產標章再者"},{"start":714.346,"end":741.826,"text":"最後2025年的租價不是榮警而是警訊這不是榮民貪心也不是市場異常而是政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰租資的租價沒有最高而有更高這件事情是因為你政策失靈技術停滯行政怠惰沒有基因育種這個都是成熟在國際間有的你就是不做沒有基因育種就沒有競爭你沒有效率的提升台灣豬籠"},{"start":742.827,"end":761.337,"text":"根本沒有生產的空間本席在這邊要求下次的農業部的質詢前請部長先提交這本席要求的這三項作業進度報告如果你的進度不符合本席的具體要求那就只好請你再來立法院親自說明進度報告跟接受立法院的問責請回應 謝謝"},{"start":764.192,"end":781.227,"text":"我先跟委員報告您三項裡面的第三項絕對做不到六個月之內做不到那您說什麼時候因為本身你要講那個什麼方法論沒問題你就講個時辰方法論至少要一年沒關係沒問題這個都可以好那一年就一年後我要跟委員"},{"start":782.188,"end":802.911,"text":"你要提早六個月內公告查案變成一年內公告查案我都接受我們可以完成但是要公告的時候還要非常多的程序但是我們會把這個進度好 那我就改為一年內完成方法論好嗎 可以嗎可以 這樣可以然後另外我要跟委員報告基因改良不是基因改造這兩件事完全不一樣"},{"start":803.752,"end":807.795,"text":"可是你們的預算寫基因改良喔對 基因改良你們的預算書我看得很清楚喔所以你要調整一下喔我跟委員講我學資料科學的基因改良就是我們的一般傳統育種你講的基因定性也是傳統的育種我們是基因學我們是優生學"},{"start":822.243,"end":846.979,"text":"也能夠抗 抗熱那是不是我們這相關的部分有歧義的部分我們是不是到我們戴華委員的部分主席是不是您可以裁示一下我本席這三個具體要求租資總緣DNA的部分一個月內聽起來部長是可以接受的租資維生物的安全地圖兩個月內第一個跟第二個依照戴華委員的說法提供到委員那邊去"},{"start":849.801,"end":875.672,"text":"第三個部分我們改為一年內公報方法學我們戴華委員所提的第一項跟第二項我們請農業部一個月到我們的委員辦公室提出說明然後呢在第三項這個方法論的部分就是一年內來提出我們怎麼樣具體來做這樣的一個方法論述的部分那我們今天感謝主席採視 謝謝"},{"start":877.593,"end":878.775,"text":"謝謝我們丹華委員的質詢 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":88,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時36分）有請部長。"],["主席：我們請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["林委員岱樺：針對豬價，本席從去年11月提醒到現在，豬價沒有最高，只有更高。從去年11月質詢到現在的提醒，貴部本來是可以從從容容地，雖然不至於游刃有餘，但是現在是匆匆忙忙、連滾帶爬，現在的豬價是全球第二高。針對美國對等關稅及232條款的談判壓力，本席認為美國對臺要求農產品市場開放的可能性是非常大。如果真的走向開放，我國的農民要怎麼辦？沒有政府的保障，也沒有生產效益的提升，臺灣的農業競爭得過美國的農企業嗎？","就以今年的豬肉來看，我國的生產成本現在是每公斤92塊，比美國的每公斤低於68塊，高出了百分之二十到三十，也就是美國每頭豬的生產成本，是臺灣每頭豬生產成本不到七成，也就是現在美國豬肉空運來臺，都比國產豬便宜。如果農業部還不馬上、立即地進行科技育種，也就是基因定序來提升豬隻生產效率，眼見大量的進口豬肉就會有三輸三沒有，農民沒有韌性，農民沒有出路，消費者沒有便宜的豬肉。我這邊要點醒的是關於你們的預算書中有講到豬隻基因改良，這是錯誤的，這一筆我一定刪！連我們的豆漿、黃豆，一般市民都不講基改，連豆漿我們都不吃基改黃豆了！你在預算當中還編了豬隻基因改良！本席強調的是科技育種、優生學，不是基因改造。"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員講，基因改良不是基改。"],["林委員岱樺：市場零關稅對於民眾的消費市場來講，真的有幫忙嗎？我要講的是三輸的輸，如果未來面對大量進口豬的話，消費者沒有便宜的豬肉。我就以紐西蘭鮮奶今年1月1日開始零關稅為例，便利店的牛奶售價有降低嗎？一塊錢都沒有降。農業部說，我們穩定零售價格，保護臺灣酪農、補貼酪農，本席贊成，沒意見。但是零關稅了，牛奶的售價沒有降價，消費者的權益誰來保護？合理的懷疑，進口商從中獲得了超額的報酬。我們看去年的這個承諾，臺灣農業政策缺乏戰略規劃，尤其在智慧化的農業遠遠落後，這是本席去年的質詢，而且那時候你回應我1個月內會提出書面報告，關於規劃基因定序與AI技術應用的計畫，期望以此為起點，帶動臺灣農畜產業的提升，增強臺灣豬肉在國際市場的競爭力。經過一年了，農業部的進度為何？本席所知，從今年的1月到9月，你們只成立了「豬隻育成應對小組」，這8個字，1個月1個字，到現在已經是10月了。","關於豬價飆漲，去年11月本席提醒，農業部如果不儘快啟動我國的豬隻種源基因定序計畫與智慧化養殖，我國的豬畜產就會出現大問題，果然一年後是一語成讖。從今年端午豬肉的需求量，5月均價飆三年新高，到中秋節每公斤破百元，全球第二高。豬價的高漲是表象，供應的萎縮才是核心問題，所以你們說是因為疾病、天災、天氣炎熱，導致豬隻育種偏低，本席一一地破解。在今年7月的時候，毛豬的價格是達到106.3元，8月更突破了108元，是全球第二高，近三十年來新高，這是你們提供的數據。我們看民間全國養豬協會8月的報告說了什麼？它說今年的1到8月與去年1到8月相比，當中平均有61天的出豬頭數都低於2萬頭，比去年同期下降22%。所以豬價的飆漲不是市場的榮景，不是品質的提高，而是供給嚴重的萎縮。那你說萎縮是因為疾病，沒有錯，這也是一個事實，但是藍耳病感染率達20%、流行性腹瀉在南部的育成場發生率達18%，北、中、南的育成率普遍都低於50%，所以農民說「豬價高，豬卻養不起」，是因為疾病肆虐。關於疾病肆虐部分，你們當然有百分百的責任，因為農業部連國內養豬場的疾病分布資料都沒有掌握，沒有資料如何治理、如何管理、如何優化生產效率？我相信部長應該要掌握今年南部超過三成的豬農在減欄、停養的數字，我相信你應該要掌握。","再來你們講到天氣，臺灣成為亞洲唯一「三大豬病非疫區」國家之後，生產效率為何沒提升？你說天氣熱，氣溫28度之後豬確實就吃不下了，可是你看同樣是氣候比我們更炎熱、溼熱的巴西，在拔針成為非疫區之後，為何成為豬肉出口大國？你們的報告，農業部的國家豬隻畜產產業政策書面報告說，我國每頭母豬平均生產上市的豬肉頭數，比丹麥、荷蘭、西班牙、美國、加拿大等國的22到35頭水準為低，這個意思是什麼？也就是1頭母豬全體的生育週期，最多可以生40頭小豬，這40頭小豬在這些先進國家當中，可以有22到35頭豬是可以出售到市面的，本國就只有15頭以下，那你們的理由是什麼？是因為氣候炎熱提供病媒、病源極佳的孳生環境。你們確實是掌握了病款、病的種類，如假性狂犬病、PRV、PRR、PCV2、PED等，但是農業部根本沒有掌握養豬場微生物安全環境菌相，也就是人跟人是會移動的，人只要一移動，每一個豬場的病菌就會相互感染，當然就是會生病嘛！所以其實根本上還是你的資料沒有掌握好。希望你們未來能夠針對微生物安全的環境病相能夠掌握，降低疾病的傳染風險，提高育成率，而不是再把天氣當作產量減少的藉口，巴西做得到，比我們更熱的做到，你為什麼做不到？","再來看到國際競爭壓力，豬農如何自保？根據美國農業部USDA跟WTO的談判，美國要求對臺豬肉關稅調降4%，你看國際談判多麼地險惡，從美臺關稅對我們農業的進逼，美國還透過WTO要求我們還要降到4%，這是多麼險竣！這個部分本席感同身受。但是在丹麥農業理事會的報告，丹麥豬的飼料轉換效率，我就以丹麥為例好了，2.6公斤的飼料養1公斤的豬肉，我們臺灣是如何？3.4公斤到3.6公斤的飼料養一頭豬，你的豬哪有效率？就算兩邊價格都一樣，美國豬大量進口到臺灣來，就算豬價一樣好了，國外豬的成本還是比我們少了25%到30%，他們成本還是比較低，結果誰得利？你說要補助豬農，本席沒意見，誰得利？貿易商得利，消費者有沒有得利？沒有，因為進口牛奶的例子就活生生的擺在眼前，零關稅的牛奶竟然消費者沒有受益。","再來，在這種競爭條件下，你們貴部如果沒有強化種源基因（非基因改造），你那筆預算，我絕對刪。不提升生產效率，建立防疫韌性，只怕臺灣豬農完全沒有勝算。","國際競爭如何近逼呢？臺灣豬肉在日本市場占有率曾經達40%，1997年後口蹄疫爆發幾乎歸零，如今口蹄疫解除了，我們出口不能恢復的主因有三個，品系不穩、屠體規格不一、品牌力不足。農業部一再說要復興臺灣豬，但到目前為止，只看到補助、沒看到升級。你看看你的簡報當中，你還洋洋灑灑講到酪農，酪農你只做到兩件事情，第一個品質優化、品質控管，第二個通路的媒合，所以今天你2025年編列多少預算是用於基因育種？零。是否能在一個月內提交本席要求的臺灣豬隻DNA資料庫的行動白皮書？","我具體要求這2頁中提到的這三項，時程、責任、公開報告，第一個、豬隻種源DNA資料庫的建置；第二個、豬隻微生物的安全地圖；第三個、國產豬品牌標章的制度。這個國產豬的標示不是CAS，而是你剛才講的自主碳匯，你們講到了水有海草復育、講到了森林、講到了土壤，拜託，畜產業（牛）才是真的碳最大的排碳大戶，所以你這邊的國產豬隻標章要跟CAS有區別，而是要求具有節能減碳的生產因素，以提高自願碳匯。","這三項我各有要求，時程上，一個月內提出DNA資料庫；兩個月內啟動豬隻微生物安全地圖的試點計畫，對於疫情的掌握，疾病在哪一個豬場，你能夠100%的掌握嗎？包括他周邊菌相的收集；以及半年內公告有關國產豬品牌標章制度的草案，非CAS，而是具有節能減碳生產因素，以提高自願碳匯這樣的生產標章。","最後，2025年的豬價不是榮景，而是警訊，這不是農民貪心，也不是市場異常，而是政策失靈、技術停滯、行政怠惰，豬隻的豬價沒有最高、只有更高。這件事情是因為你政策失靈、技術停滯、行政怠惰，沒有基因育種，這個在國際間都是成熟的，而你就是不做。沒有基因育種就沒有競爭力，效率沒有提升，臺灣豬農根本沒有生產的空間。本席在這邊要求下次農業部質詢前，請部長先提交本席要求的這三項作業進度報告，如果你的進度不符合本席的具體要求，那就只好請你再來立法院親自說明進度報告，跟接受立法院的問責。請回應，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：我先跟委員報告，您這三項裡面的第三項，六個月之內絕對做不到。"],["林委員岱樺：好，那您說什麼時候？"],["陳部長駿季：因為本身那個標章……"],["林委員岱樺：你要講那個什麼方法論，沒問題，你就講個時程。"],["陳部長駿季：對，那都要方法論，方法論至少要一年，因為還要提交……"],["林委員岱樺：沒問題。"],["陳部長駿季：這個都可以嗎？"],["林委員岱樺：那就一年後嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員簡單的說明，我們的……"],["林委員岱樺：你要從提早六個月內公告草案，變成一年內公告草案，我都接受。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們可以完成，公告的時候還有非常多的程序，但是我們會把這個進度，按季提供給您。"],["林委員岱樺：好，那我就改為一年內完成方法論，好嗎？可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這樣可以。另外，我要跟委員報告，基因改良不是基因改造，這兩件事完全不一樣。"],["林委員岱樺：當然，可是你們的預算寫「基因改良」喔！"],["陳部長駿季：對，基因改良。"],["林委員岱樺：你們的預算書我看得很清楚喔！所以你要調整一下喔！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員講，我學自然科學的，基因改良就是我們的一般傳統育種，你講的基因定序也是傳統的育種……"],["林委員岱樺：我們是基因學，我們是優生學，能夠抗熱……"],["主席：時間到了喔！相關、有歧異的部分，是不是到我們岱樺委員的辦公室……"],["陳部長駿季：好，我再跟委員……"],["林委員岱樺：主席，是不是您可以裁示一下本席這三個具體要求，豬隻種源DNA的部分在一個月內提出，聽起來部長是可以接受的。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個跟第二個……"],["林委員岱樺：豬隻微生物的安全地圖在兩個月內啟動。"],["主席：第一個跟第二個依照岱樺委員的說法……"],["陳部長駿季：第一個跟第二個我們會提供一個方案到委員那邊去；第三個部分……"],["林委員岱樺：我們改為一年內公告方法論。"],["主席：岱樺委員所提的第一項跟第二項，我們請農業部一個月到岱樺的委員辦公室提出說明，然後第三項方法論的部分，一年內提出具體的方法論述，那我們今天……"],["林委員岱樺：感謝主席裁示，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝岱樺委員的質詢，謝謝部長。","我們現在請邱議瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-3","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳超明","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","呂玉玲","賴惠員","郭昱晴","王育敏","黃國昌","郭國文","張雅琳","鍾佳濱","徐富癸","林俊憲"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00004"}}}