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\"start\": 726.024, \"end\": 726.284, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 726.284, \"end\": 726.305, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:11,079\n接下來我們請賴會員委員謝謝主席我們請沈記長沈記長還有主記長我們請陳沈記長陳主記長\n\n2\n00:00:19,790 --> 00:00:43,557\n委員好兩位早安我想我先來跟沈記長討教一下針對的就是近日就是我們有一群我們白河的鄉親北上抗議他抗議什麼呢他抗議就是說我們白河水庫的一個排沙工程這個時間太長了還有蘇峻的一個計畫都沒有一個\n\n3\n00:00:44,637 --> 00:00:52,723\n查核也沒有一個監督那事實上我們看到了就是說白河水庫因為他其實在前瞻計畫裡頭我們大概從2017年到2024年這7年裡頭我們編了103\n\n4\n00:01:01,690 --> 00:01:18,286\n3.9億這個很明確我們看到了那在這裡要問一下那個沈記長就是說是不是你有關心到這一個議題我覺得我想聽聽有沒有透明的一個機制可以讓農民跟社會大眾去掌握這個進度跟成果\n\n5\n00:01:19,847 --> 00:01:34,984\n來沈局長謝謝委員的主教白有水庫是我們水庫裡面遺跡非常嚴重差不多達到60%所以政府花了一點錢把它失禁但是它的失禁這個排沙工程在做的時候其實我們也有\n\n6\n00:01:35,865 --> 00:02:02,895\n也要求他他因為一直變更設計但是他整個他因為把這個排沙工程直接排到集水溪去所以變成那些沙去影響了集水溪所以就造成有一點會淹水所以這個我們都有注意這樣的一個情況所以我們認為這樣的一個做法可能集水溪要如果\n\n7\n00:02:03,815 --> 00:02:17,785\n他一定要繼續排到這個集水區可能還是要好好的水利署要把集水區這個問題要把它解決但是水利署說他有花了差不多將近要花1億5到1億8還是怎麼樣他準備提出50幾億的輸進工程包括買地\n\n8\n00:02:25,790 --> 00:02:47,743\n農水署他是全責在兩個單位喔白河水庫是水利署蔣外圍是農水署農水署也編了51億他要用地取得喔所以這個沈記長我希望你要加強監督喔你要保障農民的權益喔我們會影響做一個事情造成另一個問題\n\n9\n00:02:50,964 --> 00:03:10,400\n謝謝那個沈記長接著我請教那個主記長針對的在這一次華家沙風災跟那個花蓮那個馬太安就是這個驗聖湖的一個災後重建特別條例裡頭我們有特別提到了就是說用預算法的第22條的第32項還有預算法88條的第1項裡頭有特別講到了\n\n10\n00:03:16,425 --> 00:03:45,300\n就是說政府在災害發生的時候能迅速合法有效的應用資源不需要再額外設立一部這個特別法就是說他不需要再有一個專案那竹記長你覺得花蓮市政府的現在提到的他們需要有一個特別的一個專案需要增加就是預算來救災那如果相對的話台南啊\n\n11\n00:03:46,440 --> 00:04:01,093\n台南當初是更慘的跟嘉義是更慘的嘉義縣台南都是更慘的那這樣子的話都可以再用一個專法那我台南是不是也可以追加請主席長回答沈議長請回\n\n12\n00:04:03,335 --> 00:04:28,285\n我也再跟委員報告一下因為這個部分我們一般針對災害就是希望能夠儘速儘快然後能夠達到一個救災的目的那目前原則上可以動之災害準備金或者動之第二預備金或者做一個調整已經動用了一億了嘛對不對那當初台南還沒有動用到喔是我們在那個原來這個\n\n13\n00:04:30,265 --> 00:04:51,050\n丹尼斯颱風的時候裡面它有預備金有30億那預計它以行政院目前的一個它是希望說追加250億的一個預算然後直接因為當初在丹尼斯颱風裡面就有提到有辦理馬太安\n\n14\n00:04:51,650 --> 00:04:56,073\n所以它只要修正部分的一個條文就能達到這個目的所以這個部分或增加250億的一個所以就是修正嘛我覺得其實不是在逼可憐的啦那確實就是說台南的一個災後的一個重建其實還是很漫長只是我們現在看到了就是說\n\n15\n00:05:14,204 --> 00:05:32,302\n花蓮縣政府提出來的這一些需求的時候其實我們是很羨慕的你這個一站式的一個服務那每一個債民你現在每一戶就可以拿到35萬元那這個是讓我們真的是非常的羨慕所以就是說我在這裡\n\n16\n00:05:33,223 --> 00:05:55,295\n要特別特別跟主計主計長就是說你一定要先協調相關的單單位你去盤點你的經費來源是那我們確保就是說在後的一個計畫能夠及時的一個推動如果如果花蓮他要再有一個專法的話那我想台南我們也要推出一個專法\n\n17\n00:05:56,455 --> 00:06:12,581\n這樣子才有辦法就是說及時的照顧到我們台南的災民好謝謝主計長那我想我們再依序進入到中央統籌分配款的這一個部分那我在這裡要跟那個主計長做一個探討\n\n18\n00:06:14,462 --> 00:06:30,750\n財政收支劃分法修法了以後剛才那個我們有其他的委員有特別提到有九個縣市包括本席本席的縣市台南市裡頭他稅入的分配的一個數字看起來比那個稅前的那個修法還少\n\n19\n00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:46,482\n好像感覺上有一個中央奪取地方的一個財源的疑慮這樣的一個變化難免會讓地方政府跟民眾產生一個疑慮是不是中央縮水了地方的一個財源但是我們當了解其實\n\n20\n00:06:48,804 --> 00:07:07,000\n並不是所以就是說我們在這裡也特別特別就是說柴岩上的一個管理那跟主計總長在提一個這樣的一個計畫就是說如果你沒有辦法分配給地方政府第二次的一個修法的一個提案下一頁下一頁\n\n21\n00:07:08,161 --> 00:07:30,367\n那請主計總長說明就是說在這一次的財化法修法了以後這346億沒有辦法分配給地方政府的那行政院昨天院長有講了怎麼樣去解決這一些那如果這些錢要怎麼樣處理我想聽一聽那個主計長你的一個看法\n\n22\n00:07:31,511 --> 00:07:56,128\n因為我們這個部分就是有跟財政部也有開過幾次的會財政部有表示就是說這346億目前是無法分配給地方政府那這個部分如果要分配給地方政府就必須要透過修法的一個動作那如果說要修法的部分我們在行政院這邊是有研擬整個一個財務法的整個修正\n\n23\n00:07:56,528 --> 00:08:19,963\n因為為什麼因為當初的才化好修正就是在縣市之間非常的不均衡非常的不均衡就是說他分配的狀況就是落差非常的大你應該要還原到為什麼這個修法會修成這個樣子那在去年的時候當初就是說整個修法的過程裡頭我們的那個預算的一個過程當中為什麼其實原則上來講啦\n\n24\n00:08:23,345 --> 00:08:36,295\n就是公事有漏點啦這個是怎麼造成的誰提法誰提這個法案誰就要負責啊為什麼是行政院在修繕呢你這個分母22個縣市分子19個縣市你這個本來本來就會造成這個盲點啦\n\n25\n00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:58,301\n是所以這個部分所以院長也表示說這個修緩的部分行政院的部分沒有辦法來提案但是問題就是說整個一個財化法的整體的一個修正讓它更均衡這個部分財政部正在研擬當中不是你這個文字怎麼對起來嘛\n\n26\n00:08:59,662 --> 00:09:18,732\n修法為什麼會技術這麼差嘛這個總是要有人負責啊那負責的人其實基本上你只要就是承認就是說當初在這個修法上面在這個預算審查上面就是說太草率了不然你現在怎麼修呢你怎麼修都是大家都不滿意\n\n27\n00:09:20,917 --> 00:09:45,009\n對所以這個部分我們財政部相關它已經有研擬新的一個財劃法的一個版本那這個版本我們也會近日那一面財政部會找相關的縣市來做一個討論之後然後來做一個定案那你有把握說你把地方的財政部找來的時候財政局找來的時候財政處找來的時候大家都可以理性講這些事嗎\n\n28\n00:09:45,669 --> 00:10:03,308\n但是至少比較均衡好那你現在前者沒有辦法就是統一前者沒有辦法就是說做事的人沒有錢那這地方有錢可是事情還是留在中央這個怎麼辦\n\n29\n00:10:04,569 --> 00:10:30,221\n所以现在目前市权它就是留在中央那钱已经分到地方但是这个部分除了这之外原来中央一直有补助原来是地方硬办的事项就是透过一般性补助和计划性补助来做补助着以补助的部分所以这个部分我们今年才会做一个调整让它就是有一部分回归地方去自行负担\n\n30\n00:10:31,141 --> 00:10:56,506\n是這樣空姐主席長在這一次的財化法你這樣子的一個分配也造成南北的一個失衡那南部其實就是說有很多重要的建設其實都一直在進行就反而中央沒有機會來建設這一些該建設的所以這個我想這個是一個很大的一個困難那我們也希望就是說\n\n31\n00:10:57,546 --> 00:11:15,532\n財政部要加油啦因為事實上這個我們面臨到一個大家都面臨到一個非常大的一個困境那我們也希望在野黨要理性不然你看嘛這個大家這樣子一直對立下去的時候其實這個影響到的就是一個國家那個一個\n\n32\n00:11:16,673 --> 00:11:27,948\n嚴謹的一個進步我是不知道滅絕事態是什麼可是我總是覺得你就是像那個王母娘娘一直在善財那我也覺得這個王母娘娘是慈悲的\n\n33\n00:11:29,571 --> 00:11:51,166\n你很適合謝謝我也跟委員報告我們是因為新的財化法把一個行政院它一個去做均衡縣市一個經濟的一個部分的能力打破了所以現在目前我們只能還是做一些的一個彌補所以我們預計在均衡一般性補助裡面一個\n\n34\n00:11:51,846 --> 00:12:06,305\n均衡補助辦法還有考核獎勵金裡面來做一個彌補讓各縣市能夠恢復到114年度一般性補助加計劃型加統籌分配稅的一個水準以上好組長加油加油好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t11079\t接下來我們請賴會員委員謝謝主席我們請沈記長沈記長還有主記長我們請陳沈記長 陳主記長\n19790\t43557\t委員好兩位早安我想我先來跟沈記長討教一下針對的就是近日就是我們有一群我們白河的鄉親北上抗議他抗議什麼呢他抗議就是說我們白河水庫的一個排沙工程這個時間太長了還有蘇峻的一個計畫都沒有一個\n44637\t52723\t查核也沒有一個監督那事實上我們看到了就是說白河水庫因為他其實在前瞻計畫裡頭我們大概從2017年到2024年這7年裡頭我們編了103\n61690\t78286\t3.9億 這個很明確我們看到了那在這裡要問一下那個沈記長就是說是不是你有關心到這一個議題我覺得我想聽聽有沒有透明的一個機制可以讓農民跟社會大眾去掌握這個進度跟成果\n79847\t94984\t來 沈局長謝謝委員的主教白有水庫是我們水庫裡面遺跡非常嚴重差不多達到60%所以政府花了一點錢把它失禁但是它的失禁這個排沙工程在做的時候其實我們也有\n95865\t122895\t也要求他 他因為一直變更設計但是他整個 他因為把這個排沙工程直接排到集水溪去所以變成那些沙去影響了集水溪所以就造成有一點會淹水所以這個我們都有注意這樣的一個情況所以我們認為這樣的一個做法可能集水溪要 如果\n123815\t137785\t他一定要繼續排到這個集水區可能還是要好好的水利署要把集水區這個問題要把它解決但是水利署說他有花了差不多將近要花1億5到1億8還是怎麼樣他準備提出50幾億的輸進工程包括買地\n145790\t167743\t農水署 他是全責在兩個單位喔白河水庫是水利署 蔣外圍是農水署農水署也編了51億 他要用地取得喔所以這個沈記長 我希望你要加強監督喔你要保障農民的權益喔我們會影響 做一個事情造成另一個問題\n170964\t190400\t謝謝那個沈記長接著我請教那個主記長針對的在這一次華家沙風災跟那個花蓮那個馬太安就是這個驗聖湖的一個災後重建特別條例裡頭我們有特別提到了就是說用預算法的第22條的第32項還有預算法88條的第1項裡頭有特別講到了\n196425\t225300\t就是說政府在災害發生的時候能迅速合法有效的應用資源不需要再額外設立一部這個特別法就是說他不需要再有一個專案那竹記長你覺得花蓮市政府的現在提到的他們需要有一個特別的一個專案需要增加就是預算來救災那如果相對的話台南啊\n226440\t241093\t台南當初是更慘的跟嘉義是更慘的嘉義縣台南都是更慘的那這樣子的話都可以再用一個專法那我台南是不是也可以追加請主席長回答 沈議長請回\n243335\t268285\t我也再跟委員報告一下因為這個部分我們一般針對災害就是希望能夠儘速 儘快然後能夠達到一個救災的目的那目前原則上可以動之災害準備金或者動之第二預備金或者做一個調整已經動用了一億了嘛 對不對那當初台南還沒有動用到喔是 我們在那個原來這個\n270265\t291050\t丹尼斯颱風的時候裡面它有預備金有30億那預計它以行政院目前的一個它是希望說追加250億的一個預算然後直接因為當初在丹尼斯颱風裡面就有提到有辦理馬太安\n291650\t296073\t所以它只要修正部分的一個條文就能達到這個目的所以這個部分或增加250億的一個所以就是修正嘛我覺得其實不是在逼可憐的啦那確實就是說台南的一個災後的一個重建其實還是很漫長只是我們現在看到了就是說\n314204\t332302\t花蓮縣政府提出來的這一些需求的時候其實我們是很羨慕的你這個一站式的一個服務那每一個債民你現在每一戶就可以拿到35萬元那這個是讓我們真的是非常的羨慕所以就是說我在這裡\n333223\t355295\t要特別特別跟主計主計長就是說你一定要先協調相關的單單位你去盤點你的經費來源是那我們確保就是說在後的一個計畫能夠及時的一個推動如果如果花蓮他要再有一個專法的話那我想台南我們也要推出一個專法\n356455\t372581\t這樣子才有辦法就是說及時的照顧到我們台南的災民好謝謝主計長那我想我們再依序進入到中央統籌分配款的這一個部分那我在這裡要跟那個主計長做一個探討\n374462\t390750\t財政收支劃分法修法了以後剛才那個我們有其他的委員有特別提到有九個縣市包括本席本席的縣市台南市裡頭他稅入的分配的一個數字看起來比那個稅前的那個修法還少\n391590\t406482\t好像感覺上有一個中央奪取地方的一個財源的疑慮這樣的一個變化難免會讓地方政府跟民眾產生一個疑慮是不是中央縮水了地方的一個財源但是我們當了解其實\n408804\t427000\t並不是所以就是說我們在這裡也特別特別就是說柴岩上的一個管理那跟主計總長在提一個這樣的一個計畫就是說如果你沒有辦法分配給地方政府第二次的一個修法的一個提案下一頁下一頁\n428161\t450367\t那請主計總長說明就是說在這一次的財化法修法了以後這346億沒有辦法分配給地方政府的那行政院昨天院長有講了怎麼樣去解決這一些那如果這些錢要怎麼樣處理我想聽一聽那個主計長你的一個看法\n451511\t476128\t因為我們這個部分就是有跟財政部也有開過幾次的會財政部有表示就是說這346億目前是無法分配給地方政府那這個部分如果要分配給地方政府就必須要透過修法的一個動作那如果說要修法的部分我們在行政院這邊是有研擬整個一個財務法的整個修正\n476528\t499963\t因為為什麼因為當初的才化好修正就是在縣市之間非常的不均衡非常的不均衡就是說他分配的狀況就是落差非常的大你應該要還原到為什麼這個修法會修成這個樣子那在去年的時候當初就是說整個修法的過程裡頭我們的那個預算的一個過程當中為什麼其實原則上來講啦\n503345\t516295\t就是公事有漏點啦這個是怎麼造成的誰提法 誰提這個法案誰就要負責啊為什麼是行政院在修繕呢你這個分母22個縣市分子19個縣市你這個本來本來就會造成這個盲點啦\n522000\t538301\t是 所以這個部分所以院長也表示說這個修緩的部分行政院的部分沒有辦法來提案但是問題就是說整個一個財化法的整體的一個修正讓它更均衡這個部分財政部正在研擬當中不是 你這個文字怎麼對起來嘛\n539662\t558732\t修法為什麼會技術這麼差嘛這個總是要有人負責啊那負責的人其實基本上你只要就是承認就是說當初在這個修法上面在這個預算審查上面就是說太草率了不然你現在怎麼修呢你怎麼修都是大家都不滿意\n560917\t585009\t對 所以這個部分我們財政部相關它已經有研擬新的一個財劃法的一個版本那這個版本我們也會近日那一面財政部會找相關的縣市來做一個討論之後然後來做一個定案那你有把握說你把地方的財政部找來的時候財政局找來的時候財政處找來的時候大家都可以理性講這些事嗎\n585669\t603308\t但是至少比較均衡好 那你現在前者沒有辦法就是統一前者沒有辦法就是說做事的人沒有錢那這地方有錢可是事情還是留在中央這個怎麼辦\n604569\t630221\t所以现在目前市权它就是留在中央那钱已经分到地方但是这个部分除了这之外原来中央一直有补助原来是地方硬办的事项就是透过一般性补助和计划性补助来做补助 着以补助的部分所以这个部分我们今年才会做一个调整让它就是有一部分回归地方去自行负担\n631141\t656506\t是這樣 空姐主席長在這一次的財化法你這樣子的一個分配也造成南北的一個失衡那南部其實就是說有很多重要的建設其實都一直在進行就反而中央沒有機會來建設這一些該建設的所以這個我想這個是一個很大的一個困難那我們也希望就是說\n657546\t675532\t財政部要加油啦因為事實上這個我們面臨到一個大家都面臨到一個非常大的一個困境那我們也希望在野黨要理性不然你看嘛這個大家這樣子一直對立下去的時候其實這個影響到的就是一個國家那個一個\n676673\t687948\t嚴謹的一個進步我是不知道滅絕事態是什麼可是我總是覺得你就是像那個王母娘娘一直在善財那我也覺得這個王母娘娘是慈悲的\n689571\t711166\t你很適合謝謝我也跟委員報告我們是因為新的財化法把一個行政院它一個去做均衡縣市一個經濟的一個部分的能力打破了所以現在目前我們只能還是做一些的一個彌補所以我們預計在均衡一般性補助裡面一個\n711846\t726305\t均衡補助辦法還有考核獎勵金裡面來做一個彌補讓各縣市能夠恢復到114年度一般性補助加計劃型加統籌分配稅的一個水準以上好 組長加油加油好 謝謝\n","txt":"接下來我們請賴會員委員謝謝主席我們請沈記長沈記長還有主記長我們請陳沈記長 陳主記長\n委員好兩位早安我想我先來跟沈記長討教一下針對的就是近日就是我們有一群我們白河的鄉親北上抗議他抗議什麼呢他抗議就是說我們白河水庫的一個排沙工程這個時間太長了還有蘇峻的一個計畫都沒有一個\n查核也沒有一個監督那事實上我們看到了就是說白河水庫因為他其實在前瞻計畫裡頭我們大概從2017年到2024年這7年裡頭我們編了103\n3.9億 這個很明確我們看到了那在這裡要問一下那個沈記長就是說是不是你有關心到這一個議題我覺得我想聽聽有沒有透明的一個機制可以讓農民跟社會大眾去掌握這個進度跟成果\n來 沈局長謝謝委員的主教白有水庫是我們水庫裡面遺跡非常嚴重差不多達到60%所以政府花了一點錢把它失禁但是它的失禁這個排沙工程在做的時候其實我們也有\n也要求他 他因為一直變更設計但是他整個 他因為把這個排沙工程直接排到集水溪去所以變成那些沙去影響了集水溪所以就造成有一點會淹水所以這個我們都有注意這樣的一個情況所以我們認為這樣的一個做法可能集水溪要 如果\n他一定要繼續排到這個集水區可能還是要好好的水利署要把集水區這個問題要把它解決但是水利署說他有花了差不多將近要花1億5到1億8還是怎麼樣他準備提出50幾億的輸進工程包括買地\n農水署 他是全責在兩個單位喔白河水庫是水利署 蔣外圍是農水署農水署也編了51億 他要用地取得喔所以這個沈記長 我希望你要加強監督喔你要保障農民的權益喔我們會影響 做一個事情造成另一個問題\n謝謝那個沈記長接著我請教那個主記長針對的在這一次華家沙風災跟那個花蓮那個馬太安就是這個驗聖湖的一個災後重建特別條例裡頭我們有特別提到了就是說用預算法的第22條的第32項還有預算法88條的第1項裡頭有特別講到了\n就是說政府在災害發生的時候能迅速合法有效的應用資源不需要再額外設立一部這個特別法就是說他不需要再有一個專案那竹記長你覺得花蓮市政府的現在提到的他們需要有一個特別的一個專案需要增加就是預算來救災那如果相對的話台南啊\n台南當初是更慘的跟嘉義是更慘的嘉義縣台南都是更慘的那這樣子的話都可以再用一個專法那我台南是不是也可以追加請主席長回答 沈議長請回\n我也再跟委員報告一下因為這個部分我們一般針對災害就是希望能夠儘速 儘快然後能夠達到一個救災的目的那目前原則上可以動之災害準備金或者動之第二預備金或者做一個調整已經動用了一億了嘛 對不對那當初台南還沒有動用到喔是 我們在那個原來這個\n丹尼斯颱風的時候裡面它有預備金有30億那預計它以行政院目前的一個它是希望說追加250億的一個預算然後直接因為當初在丹尼斯颱風裡面就有提到有辦理馬太安\n所以它只要修正部分的一個條文就能達到這個目的所以這個部分或增加250億的一個所以就是修正嘛我覺得其實不是在逼可憐的啦那確實就是說台南的一個災後的一個重建其實還是很漫長只是我們現在看到了就是說\n花蓮縣政府提出來的這一些需求的時候其實我們是很羨慕的你這個一站式的一個服務那每一個債民你現在每一戶就可以拿到35萬元那這個是讓我們真的是非常的羨慕所以就是說我在這裡\n要特別特別跟主計主計長就是說你一定要先協調相關的單單位你去盤點你的經費來源是那我們確保就是說在後的一個計畫能夠及時的一個推動如果如果花蓮他要再有一個專法的話那我想台南我們也要推出一個專法\n這樣子才有辦法就是說及時的照顧到我們台南的災民好謝謝主計長那我想我們再依序進入到中央統籌分配款的這一個部分那我在這裡要跟那個主計長做一個探討\n財政收支劃分法修法了以後剛才那個我們有其他的委員有特別提到有九個縣市包括本席本席的縣市台南市裡頭他稅入的分配的一個數字看起來比那個稅前的那個修法還少\n好像感覺上有一個中央奪取地方的一個財源的疑慮這樣的一個變化難免會讓地方政府跟民眾產生一個疑慮是不是中央縮水了地方的一個財源但是我們當了解其實\n並不是所以就是說我們在這裡也特別特別就是說柴岩上的一個管理那跟主計總長在提一個這樣的一個計畫就是說如果你沒有辦法分配給地方政府第二次的一個修法的一個提案下一頁下一頁\n那請主計總長說明就是說在這一次的財化法修法了以後這346億沒有辦法分配給地方政府的那行政院昨天院長有講了怎麼樣去解決這一些那如果這些錢要怎麼樣處理我想聽一聽那個主計長你的一個看法\n因為我們這個部分就是有跟財政部也有開過幾次的會財政部有表示就是說這346億目前是無法分配給地方政府那這個部分如果要分配給地方政府就必須要透過修法的一個動作那如果說要修法的部分我們在行政院這邊是有研擬整個一個財務法的整個修正\n因為為什麼因為當初的才化好修正就是在縣市之間非常的不均衡非常的不均衡就是說他分配的狀況就是落差非常的大你應該要還原到為什麼這個修法會修成這個樣子那在去年的時候當初就是說整個修法的過程裡頭我們的那個預算的一個過程當中為什麼其實原則上來講啦\n就是公事有漏點啦這個是怎麼造成的誰提法 誰提這個法案誰就要負責啊為什麼是行政院在修繕呢你這個分母22個縣市分子19個縣市你這個本來本來就會造成這個盲點啦\n是 所以這個部分所以院長也表示說這個修緩的部分行政院的部分沒有辦法來提案但是問題就是說整個一個財化法的整體的一個修正讓它更均衡這個部分財政部正在研擬當中不是 你這個文字怎麼對起來嘛\n修法為什麼會技術這麼差嘛這個總是要有人負責啊那負責的人其實基本上你只要就是承認就是說當初在這個修法上面在這個預算審查上面就是說太草率了不然你現在怎麼修呢你怎麼修都是大家都不滿意\n對 所以這個部分我們財政部相關它已經有研擬新的一個財劃法的一個版本那這個版本我們也會近日那一面財政部會找相關的縣市來做一個討論之後然後來做一個定案那你有把握說你把地方的財政部找來的時候財政局找來的時候財政處找來的時候大家都可以理性講這些事嗎\n但是至少比較均衡好 那你現在前者沒有辦法就是統一前者沒有辦法就是說做事的人沒有錢那這地方有錢可是事情還是留在中央這個怎麼辦\n所以现在目前市权它就是留在中央那钱已经分到地方但是这个部分除了这之外原来中央一直有补助原来是地方硬办的事项就是透过一般性补助和计划性补助来做补助 着以补助的部分所以这个部分我们今年才会做一个调整让它就是有一部分回归地方去自行负担\n是這樣 空姐主席長在這一次的財化法你這樣子的一個分配也造成南北的一個失衡那南部其實就是說有很多重要的建設其實都一直在進行就反而中央沒有機會來建設這一些該建設的所以這個我想這個是一個很大的一個困難那我們也希望就是說\n財政部要加油啦因為事實上這個我們面臨到一個大家都面臨到一個非常大的一個困境那我們也希望在野黨要理性不然你看嘛這個大家這樣子一直對立下去的時候其實這個影響到的就是一個國家那個一個\n嚴謹的一個進步我是不知道滅絕事態是什麼可是我總是覺得你就是像那個王母娘娘一直在善財那我也覺得這個王母娘娘是慈悲的\n你很適合謝謝我也跟委員報告我們是因為新的財化法把一個行政院它一個去做均衡縣市一個經濟的一個部分的能力打破了所以現在目前我們只能還是做一些的一個彌補所以我們預計在均衡一般性補助裡面一個\n均衡補助辦法還有考核獎勵金裡面來做一個彌補讓各縣市能夠恢復到114年度一般性補助加計劃型加統籌分配稅的一個水準以上好 組長加油加油好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:11.079\n接下來我們請賴會員委員謝謝主席我們請沈記長沈記長還有主記長我們請陳沈記長陳主記長\n\n00:19.790 --> 00:43.557\n委員好兩位早安我想我先來跟沈記長討教一下針對的就是近日就是我們有一群我們白河的鄉親北上抗議他抗議什麼呢他抗議就是說我們白河水庫的一個排沙工程這個時間太長了還有蘇峻的一個計畫都沒有一個\n\n00:44.637 --> 00:52.723\n查核也沒有一個監督那事實上我們看到了就是說白河水庫因為他其實在前瞻計畫裡頭我們大概從2017年到2024年這7年裡頭我們編了103\n\n01:01.690 --> 01:18.286\n3.9億這個很明確我們看到了那在這裡要問一下那個沈記長就是說是不是你有關心到這一個議題我覺得我想聽聽有沒有透明的一個機制可以讓農民跟社會大眾去掌握這個進度跟成果\n\n01:19.847 --> 01:34.984\n來沈局長謝謝委員的主教白有水庫是我們水庫裡面遺跡非常嚴重差不多達到60%所以政府花了一點錢把它失禁但是它的失禁這個排沙工程在做的時候其實我們也有\n\n01:35.865 --> 02:02.895\n也要求他他因為一直變更設計但是他整個他因為把這個排沙工程直接排到集水溪去所以變成那些沙去影響了集水溪所以就造成有一點會淹水所以這個我們都有注意這樣的一個情況所以我們認為這樣的一個做法可能集水溪要如果\n\n02:03.815 --> 02:17.785\n他一定要繼續排到這個集水區可能還是要好好的水利署要把集水區這個問題要把它解決但是水利署說他有花了差不多將近要花1億5到1億8還是怎麼樣他準備提出50幾億的輸進工程包括買地\n\n02:25.790 --> 02:47.743\n農水署他是全責在兩個單位喔白河水庫是水利署蔣外圍是農水署農水署也編了51億他要用地取得喔所以這個沈記長我希望你要加強監督喔你要保障農民的權益喔我們會影響做一個事情造成另一個問題\n\n02:50.964 --> 03:10.400\n謝謝那個沈記長接著我請教那個主記長針對的在這一次華家沙風災跟那個花蓮那個馬太安就是這個驗聖湖的一個災後重建特別條例裡頭我們有特別提到了就是說用預算法的第22條的第32項還有預算法88條的第1項裡頭有特別講到了\n\n03:16.425 --> 03:45.300\n就是說政府在災害發生的時候能迅速合法有效的應用資源不需要再額外設立一部這個特別法就是說他不需要再有一個專案那竹記長你覺得花蓮市政府的現在提到的他們需要有一個特別的一個專案需要增加就是預算來救災那如果相對的話台南啊\n\n03:46.440 --> 04:01.093\n台南當初是更慘的跟嘉義是更慘的嘉義縣台南都是更慘的那這樣子的話都可以再用一個專法那我台南是不是也可以追加請主席長回答沈議長請回\n\n04:03.335 --> 04:28.285\n我也再跟委員報告一下因為這個部分我們一般針對災害就是希望能夠儘速儘快然後能夠達到一個救災的目的那目前原則上可以動之災害準備金或者動之第二預備金或者做一個調整已經動用了一億了嘛對不對那當初台南還沒有動用到喔是我們在那個原來這個\n\n04:30.265 --> 04:51.050\n丹尼斯颱風的時候裡面它有預備金有30億那預計它以行政院目前的一個它是希望說追加250億的一個預算然後直接因為當初在丹尼斯颱風裡面就有提到有辦理馬太安\n\n04:51.650 --> 04:56.073\n所以它只要修正部分的一個條文就能達到這個目的所以這個部分或增加250億的一個所以就是修正嘛我覺得其實不是在逼可憐的啦那確實就是說台南的一個災後的一個重建其實還是很漫長只是我們現在看到了就是說\n\n05:14.204 --> 05:32.302\n花蓮縣政府提出來的這一些需求的時候其實我們是很羨慕的你這個一站式的一個服務那每一個債民你現在每一戶就可以拿到35萬元那這個是讓我們真的是非常的羨慕所以就是說我在這裡\n\n05:33.223 --> 05:55.295\n要特別特別跟主計主計長就是說你一定要先協調相關的單單位你去盤點你的經費來源是那我們確保就是說在後的一個計畫能夠及時的一個推動如果如果花蓮他要再有一個專法的話那我想台南我們也要推出一個專法\n\n05:56.455 --> 06:12.581\n這樣子才有辦法就是說及時的照顧到我們台南的災民好謝謝主計長那我想我們再依序進入到中央統籌分配款的這一個部分那我在這裡要跟那個主計長做一個探討\n\n06:14.462 --> 06:30.750\n財政收支劃分法修法了以後剛才那個我們有其他的委員有特別提到有九個縣市包括本席本席的縣市台南市裡頭他稅入的分配的一個數字看起來比那個稅前的那個修法還少\n\n06:31.590 --> 06:46.482\n好像感覺上有一個中央奪取地方的一個財源的疑慮這樣的一個變化難免會讓地方政府跟民眾產生一個疑慮是不是中央縮水了地方的一個財源但是我們當了解其實\n\n06:48.804 --> 07:07.000\n並不是所以就是說我們在這裡也特別特別就是說柴岩上的一個管理那跟主計總長在提一個這樣的一個計畫就是說如果你沒有辦法分配給地方政府第二次的一個修法的一個提案下一頁下一頁\n\n07:08.161 --> 07:30.367\n那請主計總長說明就是說在這一次的財化法修法了以後這346億沒有辦法分配給地方政府的那行政院昨天院長有講了怎麼樣去解決這一些那如果這些錢要怎麼樣處理我想聽一聽那個主計長你的一個看法\n\n07:31.511 --> 07:56.128\n因為我們這個部分就是有跟財政部也有開過幾次的會財政部有表示就是說這346億目前是無法分配給地方政府那這個部分如果要分配給地方政府就必須要透過修法的一個動作那如果說要修法的部分我們在行政院這邊是有研擬整個一個財務法的整個修正\n\n07:56.528 --> 08:19.963\n因為為什麼因為當初的才化好修正就是在縣市之間非常的不均衡非常的不均衡就是說他分配的狀況就是落差非常的大你應該要還原到為什麼這個修法會修成這個樣子那在去年的時候當初就是說整個修法的過程裡頭我們的那個預算的一個過程當中為什麼其實原則上來講啦\n\n08:23.345 --> 08:36.295\n就是公事有漏點啦這個是怎麼造成的誰提法誰提這個法案誰就要負責啊為什麼是行政院在修繕呢你這個分母22個縣市分子19個縣市你這個本來本來就會造成這個盲點啦\n\n08:42.000 --> 08:58.301\n是所以這個部分所以院長也表示說這個修緩的部分行政院的部分沒有辦法來提案但是問題就是說整個一個財化法的整體的一個修正讓它更均衡這個部分財政部正在研擬當中不是你這個文字怎麼對起來嘛\n\n08:59.662 --> 09:18.732\n修法為什麼會技術這麼差嘛這個總是要有人負責啊那負責的人其實基本上你只要就是承認就是說當初在這個修法上面在這個預算審查上面就是說太草率了不然你現在怎麼修呢你怎麼修都是大家都不滿意\n\n09:20.917 --> 09:45.009\n對所以這個部分我們財政部相關它已經有研擬新的一個財劃法的一個版本那這個版本我們也會近日那一面財政部會找相關的縣市來做一個討論之後然後來做一個定案那你有把握說你把地方的財政部找來的時候財政局找來的時候財政處找來的時候大家都可以理性講這些事嗎\n\n09:45.669 --> 10:03.308\n但是至少比較均衡好那你現在前者沒有辦法就是統一前者沒有辦法就是說做事的人沒有錢那這地方有錢可是事情還是留在中央這個怎麼辦\n\n10:04.569 --> 10:30.221\n所以现在目前市权它就是留在中央那钱已经分到地方但是这个部分除了这之外原来中央一直有补助原来是地方硬办的事项就是透过一般性补助和计划性补助来做补助着以补助的部分所以这个部分我们今年才会做一个调整让它就是有一部分回归地方去自行负担\n\n10:31.141 --> 10:56.506\n是這樣空姐主席長在這一次的財化法你這樣子的一個分配也造成南北的一個失衡那南部其實就是說有很多重要的建設其實都一直在進行就反而中央沒有機會來建設這一些該建設的所以這個我想這個是一個很大的一個困難那我們也希望就是說\n\n10:57.546 --> 11:15.532\n財政部要加油啦因為事實上這個我們面臨到一個大家都面臨到一個非常大的一個困境那我們也希望在野黨要理性不然你看嘛這個大家這樣子一直對立下去的時候其實這個影響到的就是一個國家那個一個\n\n11:16.673 --> 11:27.948\n嚴謹的一個進步我是不知道滅絕事態是什麼可是我總是覺得你就是像那個王母娘娘一直在善財那我也覺得這個王母娘娘是慈悲的\n\n11:29.571 --> 11:51.166\n你很適合謝謝我也跟委員報告我們是因為新的財化法把一個行政院它一個去做均衡縣市一個經濟的一個部分的能力打破了所以現在目前我們只能還是做一些的一個彌補所以我們預計在均衡一般性補助裡面一個\n\n11:51.846 --> 12:06.305\n均衡補助辦法還有考核獎勵金裡面來做一個彌補讓各縣市能夠恢復到114年度一般性補助加計劃型加統籌分配稅的一個水準以上好組長加油加油好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":11.079,"text":"接下來我們請賴會員委員謝謝主席我們請沈記長沈記長還有主記長我們請陳沈記長 陳主記長"},{"start":19.79,"end":43.557,"text":"委員好兩位早安我想我先來跟沈記長討教一下針對的就是近日就是我們有一群我們白河的鄉親北上抗議他抗議什麼呢他抗議就是說我們白河水庫的一個排沙工程這個時間太長了還有蘇峻的一個計畫都沒有一個"},{"start":44.637,"end":52.723,"text":"查核也沒有一個監督那事實上我們看到了就是說白河水庫因為他其實在前瞻計畫裡頭我們大概從2017年到2024年這7年裡頭我們編了103"},{"start":61.69,"end":78.286,"text":"3.9億 這個很明確我們看到了那在這裡要問一下那個沈記長就是說是不是你有關心到這一個議題我覺得我想聽聽有沒有透明的一個機制可以讓農民跟社會大眾去掌握這個進度跟成果"},{"start":79.847,"end":94.984,"text":"來 沈局長謝謝委員的主教白有水庫是我們水庫裡面遺跡非常嚴重差不多達到60%所以政府花了一點錢把它失禁但是它的失禁這個排沙工程在做的時候其實我們也有"},{"start":95.865,"end":122.895,"text":"也要求他 他因為一直變更設計但是他整個 他因為把這個排沙工程直接排到集水溪去所以變成那些沙去影響了集水溪所以就造成有一點會淹水所以這個我們都有注意這樣的一個情況所以我們認為這樣的一個做法可能集水溪要 如果"},{"start":123.815,"end":137.785,"text":"他一定要繼續排到這個集水區可能還是要好好的水利署要把集水區這個問題要把它解決但是水利署說他有花了差不多將近要花1億5到1億8還是怎麼樣他準備提出50幾億的輸進工程包括買地"},{"start":145.79,"end":167.743,"text":"農水署 他是全責在兩個單位喔白河水庫是水利署 蔣外圍是農水署農水署也編了51億 他要用地取得喔所以這個沈記長 我希望你要加強監督喔你要保障農民的權益喔我們會影響 做一個事情造成另一個問題"},{"start":170.964,"end":190.4,"text":"謝謝那個沈記長接著我請教那個主記長針對的在這一次華家沙風災跟那個花蓮那個馬太安就是這個驗聖湖的一個災後重建特別條例裡頭我們有特別提到了就是說用預算法的第22條的第32項還有預算法88條的第1項裡頭有特別講到了"},{"start":196.425,"end":225.3,"text":"就是說政府在災害發生的時候能迅速合法有效的應用資源不需要再額外設立一部這個特別法就是說他不需要再有一個專案那竹記長你覺得花蓮市政府的現在提到的他們需要有一個特別的一個專案需要增加就是預算來救災那如果相對的話台南啊"},{"start":226.44,"end":241.093,"text":"台南當初是更慘的跟嘉義是更慘的嘉義縣台南都是更慘的那這樣子的話都可以再用一個專法那我台南是不是也可以追加請主席長回答 沈議長請回"},{"start":243.335,"end":268.285,"text":"我也再跟委員報告一下因為這個部分我們一般針對災害就是希望能夠儘速 儘快然後能夠達到一個救災的目的那目前原則上可以動之災害準備金或者動之第二預備金或者做一個調整已經動用了一億了嘛 對不對那當初台南還沒有動用到喔是 我們在那個原來這個"},{"start":270.265,"end":291.05,"text":"丹尼斯颱風的時候裡面它有預備金有30億那預計它以行政院目前的一個它是希望說追加250億的一個預算然後直接因為當初在丹尼斯颱風裡面就有提到有辦理馬太安"},{"start":291.65,"end":296.073,"text":"所以它只要修正部分的一個條文就能達到這個目的所以這個部分或增加250億的一個所以就是修正嘛我覺得其實不是在逼可憐的啦那確實就是說台南的一個災後的一個重建其實還是很漫長只是我們現在看到了就是說"},{"start":314.204,"end":332.302,"text":"花蓮縣政府提出來的這一些需求的時候其實我們是很羨慕的你這個一站式的一個服務那每一個債民你現在每一戶就可以拿到35萬元那這個是讓我們真的是非常的羨慕所以就是說我在這裡"},{"start":333.223,"end":355.295,"text":"要特別特別跟主計主計長就是說你一定要先協調相關的單單位你去盤點你的經費來源是那我們確保就是說在後的一個計畫能夠及時的一個推動如果如果花蓮他要再有一個專法的話那我想台南我們也要推出一個專法"},{"start":356.455,"end":372.581,"text":"這樣子才有辦法就是說及時的照顧到我們台南的災民好謝謝主計長那我想我們再依序進入到中央統籌分配款的這一個部分那我在這裡要跟那個主計長做一個探討"},{"start":374.462,"end":390.75,"text":"財政收支劃分法修法了以後剛才那個我們有其他的委員有特別提到有九個縣市包括本席本席的縣市台南市裡頭他稅入的分配的一個數字看起來比那個稅前的那個修法還少"},{"start":391.59,"end":406.482,"text":"好像感覺上有一個中央奪取地方的一個財源的疑慮這樣的一個變化難免會讓地方政府跟民眾產生一個疑慮是不是中央縮水了地方的一個財源但是我們當了解其實"},{"start":408.804,"end":427,"text":"並不是所以就是說我們在這裡也特別特別就是說柴岩上的一個管理那跟主計總長在提一個這樣的一個計畫就是說如果你沒有辦法分配給地方政府第二次的一個修法的一個提案下一頁下一頁"},{"start":428.161,"end":450.367,"text":"那請主計總長說明就是說在這一次的財化法修法了以後這346億沒有辦法分配給地方政府的那行政院昨天院長有講了怎麼樣去解決這一些那如果這些錢要怎麼樣處理我想聽一聽那個主計長你的一個看法"},{"start":451.511,"end":476.128,"text":"因為我們這個部分就是有跟財政部也有開過幾次的會財政部有表示就是說這346億目前是無法分配給地方政府那這個部分如果要分配給地方政府就必須要透過修法的一個動作那如果說要修法的部分我們在行政院這邊是有研擬整個一個財務法的整個修正"},{"start":476.528,"end":499.963,"text":"因為為什麼因為當初的才化好修正就是在縣市之間非常的不均衡非常的不均衡就是說他分配的狀況就是落差非常的大你應該要還原到為什麼這個修法會修成這個樣子那在去年的時候當初就是說整個修法的過程裡頭我們的那個預算的一個過程當中為什麼其實原則上來講啦"},{"start":503.345,"end":516.295,"text":"就是公事有漏點啦這個是怎麼造成的誰提法 誰提這個法案誰就要負責啊為什麼是行政院在修繕呢你這個分母22個縣市分子19個縣市你這個本來本來就會造成這個盲點啦"},{"start":522,"end":538.301,"text":"是 所以這個部分所以院長也表示說這個修緩的部分行政院的部分沒有辦法來提案但是問題就是說整個一個財化法的整體的一個修正讓它更均衡這個部分財政部正在研擬當中不是 你這個文字怎麼對起來嘛"},{"start":539.662,"end":558.732,"text":"修法為什麼會技術這麼差嘛這個總是要有人負責啊那負責的人其實基本上你只要就是承認就是說當初在這個修法上面在這個預算審查上面就是說太草率了不然你現在怎麼修呢你怎麼修都是大家都不滿意"},{"start":560.917,"end":585.009,"text":"對 所以這個部分我們財政部相關它已經有研擬新的一個財劃法的一個版本那這個版本我們也會近日那一面財政部會找相關的縣市來做一個討論之後然後來做一個定案那你有把握說你把地方的財政部找來的時候財政局找來的時候財政處找來的時候大家都可以理性講這些事嗎"},{"start":585.669,"end":603.308,"text":"但是至少比較均衡好 那你現在前者沒有辦法就是統一前者沒有辦法就是說做事的人沒有錢那這地方有錢可是事情還是留在中央這個怎麼辦"},{"start":604.569,"end":630.221,"text":"所以现在目前市权它就是留在中央那钱已经分到地方但是这个部分除了这之外原来中央一直有补助原来是地方硬办的事项就是透过一般性补助和计划性补助来做补助 着以补助的部分所以这个部分我们今年才会做一个调整让它就是有一部分回归地方去自行负担"},{"start":631.141,"end":656.506,"text":"是這樣 空姐主席長在這一次的財化法你這樣子的一個分配也造成南北的一個失衡那南部其實就是說有很多重要的建設其實都一直在進行就反而中央沒有機會來建設這一些該建設的所以這個我想這個是一個很大的一個困難那我們也希望就是說"},{"start":657.546,"end":675.532,"text":"財政部要加油啦因為事實上這個我們面臨到一個大家都面臨到一個非常大的一個困境那我們也希望在野黨要理性不然你看嘛這個大家這樣子一直對立下去的時候其實這個影響到的就是一個國家那個一個"},{"start":676.673,"end":687.948,"text":"嚴謹的一個進步我是不知道滅絕事態是什麼可是我總是覺得你就是像那個王母娘娘一直在善財那我也覺得這個王母娘娘是慈悲的"},{"start":689.571,"end":711.166,"text":"你很適合謝謝我也跟委員報告我們是因為新的財化法把一個行政院它一個去做均衡縣市一個經濟的一個部分的能力打破了所以現在目前我們只能還是做一些的一個彌補所以我們預計在均衡一般性補助裡面一個"},{"start":711.846,"end":726.305,"text":"均衡補助辦法還有考核獎勵金裡面來做一個彌補讓各縣市能夠恢復到114年度一般性補助加計劃型加統籌分配稅的一個水準以上好 組長加油加油好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":418,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時4分）謝謝主席。請審計長，還有主計長。"],["主席：請陳審計長、陳主計長。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：委員好。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["賴委員惠員：兩位早安，我想我先來跟審計長討教一下，針對近日有一群白河的鄉親北上抗議，他們抗議什麼呢？他們抗議白河水庫的排砂工程，認為時間太長了，還有疏濬計畫都沒有做查核，也沒有監督。事實上，我們看到白河水庫的計畫其實是列在前瞻計畫裡頭，大概從2017年到2024年，這七年裡頭，我們編了103.9億，這個很明確我們看到了，在這裡要問一下審計長，你是不是有關心到這個議題？我想聽聽你們有沒有建立透明的機制，可以讓農民跟社會大眾去掌握進度跟成果，請審計長回答。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝委員的指教。白河水庫是我們水庫裡面淤積非常嚴重的，差不多達到60%，所以政府花了一點錢把它疏浚，關於它的疏浚、排砂工程在做的時候，其實我們也有要求它，因為它一直變更設計，但是它整個排砂工程是直接排到集水區去，導致那些淤砂會去影響到集水區，所以就造成會有一點淹水，我們都有注意到這樣的情況，所以當時我們認為這樣的作法可能集水區需要……如果砂一定要繼續排到集水區，可能還是要好好的規劃，水利署要好好的把集水區的問題予以解決，但是水利署表示他們花了差不多將近……從115年到118年，還是怎麼樣，他們準備提出五十幾億的疏浚工程，包括買地。"],["賴委員惠員：我跟你講，除了農水署，它的權責是在兩個單位喔，審計長，你應該非常清楚……"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對，白河水庫是……"],["賴委員惠員：我跟你講白河水庫是水利署，在外圍則是農水暑……"],["陳審計長瑞敏：對，農水署。"],["賴委員惠員：農水署也編了51億要用於用地取得，所以審計長，我希望你要加強監督並保障農民的權益。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：這個事情及其影響造成了一些問題，我們會來處理。"],["賴委員惠員：謝謝審計長。","接著我要請教主計長，針對這一次樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例裡頭有特別提到，但預算法第二十二條第三項，還有預算法第八十八條的第一項裡頭已經有特別講到，政府在災害發生的時候，能迅速、合法、有效的運用資源，不需要再額外設立一部特別法，也就是說，它不需要再有一個專案。主計長，你覺得花蓮縣政府現在提到他們需要一個特別的專案，需要增加預算來救災，如果相對的話，臺南呢？臺南跟嘉義當初是更慘的，嘉義縣、臺南都是更慘的，這樣子的話，如果都可以再用一個專法，那臺南是不是也可以追加呢？請主計長回答，審計長請回。"],["陳主計長淑姿：我也再跟委員報告一下，因為這個部分，我們一般針對災害就是希望能夠儘速、儘快，然後能夠達到一個救災的目的，目前原則上可以動支災害準備金，或者動支第二預備金，或者做一個調整……"],["賴委員惠員：已經動用了嘛！已經動用了1億了，對不對？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，所以我們在……"],["賴委員惠員：當初臺南還沒有動用到喔！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，我們原來在處理丹娜絲颱風的時候，它裡面有預備金30億，以行政院目前的規劃，是希望追加250億的預算，然後直接……因為當初在丹娜絲颱風裡面，就有提到辦理馬太鞍堰塞湖災害的相關復原重建，所以它只要修正部分的條文就能達到這個目的，所以這個部分如果增加250億的一個……"],["賴委員惠員：就是修正嘛，我覺得其實不是在比可憐的啦，確實就是說，臺南災後的重建其實還是很漫長，只是我們現在看到花蓮縣政府提出來這一些需求的時候，其實我們是很羨慕的，因為你們是採一站式的服務，每一個災民，現在每一戶就可以拿到35萬元，這個讓我們真的是非常的羨慕，所以就是說，我在這裡要特別特別跟主計長講，你一定要先協調相關的單位，去盤點你的經費來源。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["賴委員惠員：我們確保災後的重建計畫能夠即時的推動，如果花蓮要再有一個專法的話，那我想臺南的部分我們也要推出一個專法，這樣子才有辦法即時的照顧到我們臺南的災民。好，謝謝主計長。","接下來我們依序進入中央統籌分配款部分的討論，我在這裡要跟主計長做一個探討，財政收支劃分法修法以後，剛才有其他的委員特別提到有9個縣市，包括本席的選區臺南市在歲入分配的數字，看起來比修法前還要少，感覺上好像有中央奪取地方財源的疑慮，這樣的變化難免會讓地方政府跟民眾產生疑慮，是不是中央縮水了地方的財源？但是我們當然了解，其實並不是、並不是，所以我們在這裡也要特別強調財源上的管理，以及再跟主計長提一個這樣的計畫，就是說，針對沒有辦法分配給地方政府的部分，以及第二次修法的提案，請主計長說明，因為在這一次財劃法修法了以後，有346億沒有辦法分配給地方政府的，昨天行政院院長有講了，怎麼樣去解決這一些，關於這些錢要怎麼樣處理，我想聽一聽主計長你的看法。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們有跟財政部開過幾次會，財政部表示這346億目前是無法分配給地方政府，這個部分如果要分配給地方政府，就必須要透過修法的動作，如果要修法的話，行政院這邊是有研擬財劃法的整個修正，為什麼？因為當初財劃法的修正，造成在縣市之間非常的不均衡，非常的不均衡，就是它分配的狀況落差非常的大，貧者越貧、富者越富。"],["賴委員惠員：主計長，你應該要還原到為什麼這個修法會修成這個樣子，在去年當初整個修法的過程裡頭，以及預算審議的過程當中，為什麼？其實原則上來講，就是公式有漏洞啦，這個是怎麼造成的？誰提的法？誰提這個法案誰就要負責啊！為什麼是行政院在修法呢？分母是22個縣市，分子是19個縣市，這個本來就會造成盲點啊。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，所以這個部分，院長也表示修法的部分，行政院沒有辦法來提案，但是問題就是說，整個財劃法的整體修正讓它更均衡，這個部分財政部正在研擬當中。"],["賴委員惠員：不是，你這個文字要怎麼對起來嘛！修法為什麼會技術這麼差嘛，這個總是要有人負責啊！負責的人，其實基本上他只要承認當初在修法上面，在預算審查上面，就是太草率了，不然，你現在怎麼修呢？你怎麼修大家都不滿意！"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，所以這個部分，財政部相關已經有研擬一個新的財劃法的修正版本，這個版本近日內財政部會先找相關的縣市來做個討論，然後會來做一個定案。"],["賴委員惠員：你有把握，當你們把地方的財政單位、財政局、財政處找來的時候，大家都可以理性討論這件事嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是至少比較均衡。這是它的重點。"],["賴委員惠員：好，至少比較均衡。可是現在權責沒有辦法統一，導致做事的人沒有錢，但地方有錢，可是事情還是留在中央，這個怎麼辦呢？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，目前事權就是留在中央，但錢已經分到地方，但是這個部分除了這個之外，原來中央一直有補助原本來是地方應辦的事項，就是透過一般性補助和計畫型補助來做酌予補助的部分，所以這個部分我們今年才會做調整，讓有一部分回歸地方去自行負擔。"],["賴委員惠員：主計長，這次財劃法這樣的分配也造成了南北的失衡，南部有很多重要的建設其實都一直在進行，反而中央沒有經費來建設該建設的，我想這是一個很大的困難。我們希望財政部要加油，因為大家都面臨到一個非常大的困境，也希望在野黨要理性，不然大家一直對立下去的時候，影響到的就是國家嚴謹的進步。我不知道滅絕師太是什麼，可是我總覺得你像王母娘娘一直在散財，我覺得王母娘娘是慈悲的，你很適合，謝謝。"],["陳主計長淑姿：跟委員報告，因為新的財劃法把行政院去做均衡縣市經濟的能力打破了，所以目前我們只能做一些彌補，我們預計在均衡一般性補助裡面的均衡補助辦法及考核獎勵金做彌補，讓各縣市能夠回復到114年度一般性補助加計畫型加統籌分配稅的水準。以上。"],["賴委員惠員：好，主計長加油！加油！"],["主席：謝謝賴委員。","接下來請鍾佳濱委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-2","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","羅明才","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","林思銘","王世堅","陳玉珍"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00003"}}}