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{\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 489.054, \"end\": 489.154, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 489.154, \"end\": 489.314, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 489.314, \"end\": 489.515, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 489.515, \"end\": 489.755, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 489.755, \"end\": 489.895, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 489.895, \"end\": 490.015, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 490.015, \"end\": 490.035, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,433 --> 00:00:07,674\n主席我想請陳部長我們請陳部長\n\n2\n00:00:15,253 --> 00:00:32,680\n部長早在我開始質詢之前我也想要先呼應一下我們的陳廷飛趙偉他所提的這個老農福利津貼的這個修正因為本席有提一個版本喔那有關於就是說這個排富的部分喔本席的版本是1000萬\n\n3\n00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:53,849\n那農業業外收入跟我們陳文昭委一樣是60萬那我也在這裡呼籲我們農業部可以儘速的趕快把這件事情重視然後能夠儘速進到我們委員會來我們可以把這件事情順利的來完成讓老農的福利可以讓他們安心\n\n4\n00:00:54,909 --> 00:01:18,003\n會的我想我們我也知道委員有提版本因為各個委員的版本我們都有收集而且也有做評估然後我們也有把方案提到行政院去那目前你們的方案內容大概會是朝什麼方向呢基本上我們的牌付因為行政院還沒有通過沒辦法講具體的但是基本上我們的牌付我們會根據土地的公告限值的一個增幅去做一些調整\n\n5\n00:01:18,723 --> 00:01:35,960\n好那我接下來也是攸關農民生計的問題喔菜價尤其是短週期的小夜菜類那這幾年農業部喊了很多政策口號那就問你一件事情喔你認為台灣的菜價是不是長期偏低呢\n\n6\n00:01:37,230 --> 00:02:05,097\n我覺得台灣的農產品其實長期就偏低不只是菜價我覺得台灣的農產品其實它有它當地的這些風味但是有時候會跟進口的相比的時候就會被覺得太高可是以我們農民的辛苦的付出那作為農業部你有什麼作為要來協助我們這些農民呢因為我要反映一下基層農民的聲音這一項反映是不只一個人告訴我\n\n7\n00:02:05,657 --> 00:02:30,138\n尤其更多的是來自於青農的反應那很多青農告訴我說10年前他們還會年輕人之間互相鼓勵說我們一起回家務農但是現在他根本不敢了因為菜價是長期低迷根本賺不到錢實在太苦了以今年為例從1月到現在大家都是賠的賠多賠少而已那根本賺不到錢那務農沒有未來\n\n8\n00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:53,608\n我們的農業怎麼樣可長可久呢你聽了有沒有很心酸呢農業部有沒有掌握說到底是什麼樣子的原因造成這個問題我跟委員報告其實這個議題我們也一直希望說能夠有一個更好的這些計劃性的生產因為回到市場一定是量價的問題我舉個例子像高麗菜\n\n9\n00:02:54,588 --> 00:03:14,123\n就種太多的我都可以預期在70天以後高麗菜一定價格非常低所以怎麼樣的跟青農我們現在也持續跟青農我現在是在講這個短週期的小葉菜類所以我才會說我舉這個例子就是說我們應該有一個更好的一個協調系統跟產銷系統是但是這個事情10年前我們問也是這樣10年後農業部真的想不出辦法嗎我很難過的告訴你說假設100個農民\n\n10\n00:03:23,510 --> 00:03:35,508\n今年如果種葉菜類的至少有85個農民賠錢那怎麼辦呢那到底你們有什麼樣的作為呢因為我目前看來喔只要是風災來臨時價格稍微高漲\n\n11\n00:03:41,140 --> 00:04:04,391\n農業部就會釋出硬質蔬菜能動的硬質蔬菜雖然他不是小葉菜類但是蔬菜是有可取代性的所以他一定會影響到一般葉菜類的價格農民開始反應真的他們真的很可憐你知道嗎價格高的時候他們是沒有量可以賣的那價格低的時候全部都要耕除\n\n12\n00:04:05,251 --> 00:04:23,302\n那這個部分我們現在農業部的作為是什麼我跟委員報告就是謝業委員這樣關心但是我們的滾動倉儲絕對不會去打壓本土的菜市場這個我可以承諾我們一定是在特別是像短節業菜類的時候它一定是30天以後才能夠再上市嘛\n\n13\n00:04:23,962 --> 00:04:31,025\n我就要你這一句保證就是你不會去打壓他們的菜價因為你知道現在基層的農民對於農業部對於部長會覺得說你們怎麼會菜價偏低的時候對菜價偏低的時候是市場機制菜價稍微高漲一點你們就要把它壓低我現在要問的是農業部你們的第一\n\n14\n00:04:49,671 --> 00:04:59,715\n第一原則是保障農民是照顧農民你們不是物價不違絕對是這樣子我們一定是照顧我們的農民我們也不會用進口的蔬菜來打壓本地的你們不是物價控制不違你知道嗎這個是農民一再的他們覺得說怎麼會我們辛辛苦苦在這裡種植農業部應該是我們的靠山結果\n\n15\n00:05:15,740 --> 00:05:24,003\n每一次菜價稍微一高農業部就開始釋出一些冷凍的蔬菜我覺得這是一個造謠我們在滾動倉儲釋出的時候一定是因為假設是這樣的話等於就是把穩定物價的責任都推在農民身上了壓力都壓在農民身上損失都在農民身上所以我當然希望農業部還是希望你們要滅火你們要能夠把農民照顧好你們把農民照顧好\n\n16\n00:05:44,930 --> 00:06:04,427\n我們也為你們拍拍手也為你們按讚嘛這個是我們共同的期待那另外呢我想要講一個結構性的問題啦就是說有一個可能你們也長期不願意面對的灰色現實就是逃逸外勞你知道逃逸外勞為什麼是菜價低迷的原因嗎我講給你聽\n\n17\n00:06:08,834 --> 00:06:14,098\n是啊他現在已經不是幫農民打工了他不是說在幫農民種菜讓農民可以賺到錢他現在自己有工頭他公投自己去租地他自己有他自己的工人他的等於是他的成本比較低甚至說他是非法身份沒有成本考量濫用藥物快速生產\n\n18\n00:06:33,453 --> 00:06:36,097\n用極低的價格銷售到市場這已經不是非法僱用的問題了這等於是用非法的低成本在打擊我們台灣合法的本土農民那這個問題怎麼解決呢\n\n19\n00:06:49,808 --> 00:07:03,693\n我想我們可能要更精準的去掌握這些您剛才所說的這些逃逸的外勞所以你們目前是沒有掌握是嗎我們是有部分的掌握但是這個是整個系統性結構的問題所以我們系統性結構我同意我同意是系統性結構的問題所以你要提供他們足夠的合法外勞\n\n20\n00:07:10,955 --> 00:07:20,500\n否則農民他也會怕你把外勞都抓走了他沒有人可以協助他呀所以現在就是你一定要先把合法的外勞找進來之後你才辦法取締這些非法的外勞否則現在這些灰色地帶的外勞已經不是農民的幫手他們是農民的\n\n21\n00:07:30,526 --> 00:07:44,656\n我跟委員報告委員非常關鍵這個我想我們增加合法的外勞今年度到2萬多個我也跟勞動部長洪部長這邊也承諾就是我們有需要的時候還可以增加而且我也增加相關的限制\n\n22\n00:07:45,416 --> 00:08:10,035\n把相關的限制放寬包括它的品項的部分都可以增加所以這個部分可以讓更多的農業經營者可以用到合法的外勞其實部長我想你這個方向是正確但是真的要加快腳步然後量也一定要增加那我也希望說農為國本國本的基礎就是農民要有合理的收入跟尊嚴這一點我也希望您能夠繼續重視我們一定會重視的好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6433\t7674\t主席我想請陳部長我們請陳部長\n15253\t32680\t部長早在我開始質詢之前我也想要先呼應一下我們的陳廷飛 趙偉他所提的這個老農福利津貼的這個修正因為本席有提一個版本喔那有關於就是說這個排富的部分喔本席的版本是1000萬\n33720\t53849\t那農業業外收入跟我們陳文昭委一樣是60萬那我也在這裡呼籲我們農業部可以儘速的趕快把這件事情重視然後能夠儘速進到我們委員會來我們可以把這件事情順利的來完成讓老農的福利可以讓他們安心\n54909\t78003\t會的 我想我們我也知道委員有提版本因為各個委員的版本我們都有收集而且也有做評估然後我們也有把方案提到行政院去那目前你們的方案內容大概會是朝什麼方向呢基本上我們的牌付因為行政院還沒有通過沒辦法講具體的但是基本上我們的牌付我們會根據土地的公告限值的一個增幅去做一些調整\n78723\t95960\t好那我接下來也是攸關農民生計的問題喔菜價尤其是短週期的小夜菜類那這幾年農業部喊了很多政策口號那就問你一件事情喔你認為台灣的菜價是不是長期偏低呢\n97230\t125097\t我覺得台灣的農產品其實長期就偏低不只是菜價我覺得台灣的農產品其實它有它當地的這些風味但是有時候會跟進口的相比的時候就會被覺得太高可是以我們農民的辛苦的付出那作為農業部你有什麼作為要來協助我們這些農民呢因為我要反映一下基層農民的聲音這一項反映是不只一個人告訴我\n125657\t150138\t尤其更多的是來自於青農的反應那很多青農告訴我說10年前他們還會年輕人之間互相鼓勵說我們一起回家務農但是現在他根本不敢了因為菜價是長期低迷根本賺不到錢實在太苦了以今年為例從1月到現在大家都是賠的賠多賠少而已那根本賺不到錢那務農沒有未來\n152680\t173608\t我們的農業怎麼樣可長可久呢你聽了有沒有很心酸呢農業部有沒有掌握說到底是什麼樣子的原因造成這個問題我跟委員報告其實這個議題我們也一直希望說能夠有一個更好的這些計劃性的生產因為回到市場一定是量價的問題我舉個例子像高麗菜\n174588\t194123\t就種太多的我都可以預期在70天以後高麗菜一定價格非常低所以怎麼樣的跟青農我們現在也持續跟青農我現在是在講這個短週期的小葉菜類所以我才會說我舉這個例子就是說我們應該有一個更好的一個協調系統跟產銷系統是 但是這個事情10年前我們問也是這樣10年後農業部真的想不出辦法嗎我很難過的告訴你說假設100個農民\n203510\t215508\t今年如果種葉菜類的至少有85個農民賠錢那怎麼辦呢那到底你們有什麼樣的作為呢 因為我目前看來喔只要是風災來臨時價格稍微高漲\n221140\t244391\t農業部就會釋出硬質蔬菜能動的硬質蔬菜雖然他不是小葉菜類但是蔬菜是有可取代性的所以他一定會影響到一般葉菜類的價格農民開始反應真的他們真的很可憐你知道嗎價格高的時候他們是沒有量可以賣的那價格低的時候全部都要耕除\n245251\t263302\t那這個部分我們現在農業部的作為是什麼我跟委員報告就是謝業委員這樣關心但是我們的滾動倉儲絕對不會去打壓本土的菜市場這個我可以承諾我們一定是在特別是像短節業菜類的時候它一定是30天以後才能夠再上市嘛\n263962\t271025\t我就要你這一句保證就是你不會去打壓他們的菜價因為你知道現在基層的農民對於農業部對於部長會覺得說你們怎麼會菜價偏低的時候對 菜價偏低的時候是市場機制菜價稍微高漲一點你們就要把它壓低我現在要問的是農業部你們的第一\n289671\t299715\t第一原則是保障農民是照顧農民你們不是物價不違絕對是這樣子我們一定是照顧我們的農民我們也不會用進口的蔬菜來打壓本地的你們不是物價控制不違你知道嗎這個是農民一再的他們覺得說怎麼會我們辛辛苦苦在這裡種植農業部應該是我們的靠山結果\n315740\t324003\t每一次菜價稍微一高農業部就開始釋出一些冷凍的蔬菜我覺得這是一個造謠我們在滾動倉儲釋出的時候一定是因為假設是這樣的話等於就是把穩定物價的責任都推在農民身上了壓力都壓在農民身上損失都在農民身上所以我當然希望農業部還是希望你們要滅火你們要能夠把農民照顧好你們把農民照顧好\n344930\t364427\t我們也為你們拍拍手也為你們按讚嘛這個是我們共同的期待那另外呢我想要講一個結構性的問題啦就是說有一個可能你們也長期不願意面對的灰色現實就是逃逸外勞你知道逃逸外勞為什麼是菜價低迷的原因嗎我講給你聽\n368834\t374098\t是啊 他現在已經不是幫農民打工了他不是說在幫農民種菜 讓農民可以賺到錢他現在自己有工頭他公投自己去租地 他自己有他自己的工人他的 等於是他的成本比較低甚至說 他是非法身份沒有成本考量 濫用藥物 快速生產\n393453\t396097\t用極低的價格銷售到市場這已經不是非法僱用的問題了這等於是用非法的低成本在打擊我們台灣合法的本土農民那這個問題怎麼解決呢\n409808\t423693\t我想我們可能要更精準的去掌握這些您剛才所說的這些逃逸的外勞所以你們目前是沒有掌握是嗎我們是有部分的掌握但是這個是整個系統性結構的問題所以我們系統性結構我同意我同意是系統性結構的問題所以你要提供他們足夠的合法外勞\n430955\t440500\t否則農民他也會怕你把外勞都抓走了他沒有人可以協助他呀所以現在就是你一定要先把合法的外勞找進來之後你才辦法取締這些非法的外勞否則現在這些灰色地帶的外勞已經不是農民的幫手他們是農民的\n450526\t464656\t我跟委員報告委員非常關鍵這個我想我們增加合法的外勞今年度到2萬多個我也跟勞動部長洪部長這邊也承諾就是我們有需要的時候還可以增加而且我也增加相關的限制\n465416\t490035\t把相關的限制放寬包括它的品項的部分都可以增加所以這個部分可以讓更多的農業經營者可以用到合法的外勞其實部長我想你這個方向是正確但是真的要加快腳步然後量也一定要增加那我也希望說農為國本國本的基礎就是農民要有合理的收入跟尊嚴這一點我也希望您能夠繼續重視我們一定會重視的好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席我想請陳部長我們請陳部長\n部長早在我開始質詢之前我也想要先呼應一下我們的陳廷飛 趙偉他所提的這個老農福利津貼的這個修正因為本席有提一個版本喔那有關於就是說這個排富的部分喔本席的版本是1000萬\n那農業業外收入跟我們陳文昭委一樣是60萬那我也在這裡呼籲我們農業部可以儘速的趕快把這件事情重視然後能夠儘速進到我們委員會來我們可以把這件事情順利的來完成讓老農的福利可以讓他們安心\n會的 我想我們我也知道委員有提版本因為各個委員的版本我們都有收集而且也有做評估然後我們也有把方案提到行政院去那目前你們的方案內容大概會是朝什麼方向呢基本上我們的牌付因為行政院還沒有通過沒辦法講具體的但是基本上我們的牌付我們會根據土地的公告限值的一個增幅去做一些調整\n好那我接下來也是攸關農民生計的問題喔菜價尤其是短週期的小夜菜類那這幾年農業部喊了很多政策口號那就問你一件事情喔你認為台灣的菜價是不是長期偏低呢\n我覺得台灣的農產品其實長期就偏低不只是菜價我覺得台灣的農產品其實它有它當地的這些風味但是有時候會跟進口的相比的時候就會被覺得太高可是以我們農民的辛苦的付出那作為農業部你有什麼作為要來協助我們這些農民呢因為我要反映一下基層農民的聲音這一項反映是不只一個人告訴我\n尤其更多的是來自於青農的反應那很多青農告訴我說10年前他們還會年輕人之間互相鼓勵說我們一起回家務農但是現在他根本不敢了因為菜價是長期低迷根本賺不到錢實在太苦了以今年為例從1月到現在大家都是賠的賠多賠少而已那根本賺不到錢那務農沒有未來\n我們的農業怎麼樣可長可久呢你聽了有沒有很心酸呢農業部有沒有掌握說到底是什麼樣子的原因造成這個問題我跟委員報告其實這個議題我們也一直希望說能夠有一個更好的這些計劃性的生產因為回到市場一定是量價的問題我舉個例子像高麗菜\n就種太多的我都可以預期在70天以後高麗菜一定價格非常低所以怎麼樣的跟青農我們現在也持續跟青農我現在是在講這個短週期的小葉菜類所以我才會說我舉這個例子就是說我們應該有一個更好的一個協調系統跟產銷系統是 但是這個事情10年前我們問也是這樣10年後農業部真的想不出辦法嗎我很難過的告訴你說假設100個農民\n今年如果種葉菜類的至少有85個農民賠錢那怎麼辦呢那到底你們有什麼樣的作為呢 因為我目前看來喔只要是風災來臨時價格稍微高漲\n農業部就會釋出硬質蔬菜能動的硬質蔬菜雖然他不是小葉菜類但是蔬菜是有可取代性的所以他一定會影響到一般葉菜類的價格農民開始反應真的他們真的很可憐你知道嗎價格高的時候他們是沒有量可以賣的那價格低的時候全部都要耕除\n那這個部分我們現在農業部的作為是什麼我跟委員報告就是謝業委員這樣關心但是我們的滾動倉儲絕對不會去打壓本土的菜市場這個我可以承諾我們一定是在特別是像短節業菜類的時候它一定是30天以後才能夠再上市嘛\n我就要你這一句保證就是你不會去打壓他們的菜價因為你知道現在基層的農民對於農業部對於部長會覺得說你們怎麼會菜價偏低的時候對 菜價偏低的時候是市場機制菜價稍微高漲一點你們就要把它壓低我現在要問的是農業部你們的第一\n第一原則是保障農民是照顧農民你們不是物價不違絕對是這樣子我們一定是照顧我們的農民我們也不會用進口的蔬菜來打壓本地的你們不是物價控制不違你知道嗎這個是農民一再的他們覺得說怎麼會我們辛辛苦苦在這裡種植農業部應該是我們的靠山結果\n每一次菜價稍微一高農業部就開始釋出一些冷凍的蔬菜我覺得這是一個造謠我們在滾動倉儲釋出的時候一定是因為假設是這樣的話等於就是把穩定物價的責任都推在農民身上了壓力都壓在農民身上損失都在農民身上所以我當然希望農業部還是希望你們要滅火你們要能夠把農民照顧好你們把農民照顧好\n我們也為你們拍拍手也為你們按讚嘛這個是我們共同的期待那另外呢我想要講一個結構性的問題啦就是說有一個可能你們也長期不願意面對的灰色現實就是逃逸外勞你知道逃逸外勞為什麼是菜價低迷的原因嗎我講給你聽\n是啊 他現在已經不是幫農民打工了他不是說在幫農民種菜 讓農民可以賺到錢他現在自己有工頭他公投自己去租地 他自己有他自己的工人他的 等於是他的成本比較低甚至說 他是非法身份沒有成本考量 濫用藥物 快速生產\n用極低的價格銷售到市場這已經不是非法僱用的問題了這等於是用非法的低成本在打擊我們台灣合法的本土農民那這個問題怎麼解決呢\n我想我們可能要更精準的去掌握這些您剛才所說的這些逃逸的外勞所以你們目前是沒有掌握是嗎我們是有部分的掌握但是這個是整個系統性結構的問題所以我們系統性結構我同意我同意是系統性結構的問題所以你要提供他們足夠的合法外勞\n否則農民他也會怕你把外勞都抓走了他沒有人可以協助他呀所以現在就是你一定要先把合法的外勞找進來之後你才辦法取締這些非法的外勞否則現在這些灰色地帶的外勞已經不是農民的幫手他們是農民的\n我跟委員報告委員非常關鍵這個我想我們增加合法的外勞今年度到2萬多個我也跟勞動部長洪部長這邊也承諾就是我們有需要的時候還可以增加而且我也增加相關的限制\n把相關的限制放寬包括它的品項的部分都可以增加所以這個部分可以讓更多的農業經營者可以用到合法的外勞其實部長我想你這個方向是正確但是真的要加快腳步然後量也一定要增加那我也希望說農為國本國本的基礎就是農民要有合理的收入跟尊嚴這一點我也希望您能夠繼續重視我們一定會重視的好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.433 --> 00:07.674\n主席我想請陳部長我們請陳部長\n\n00:15.253 --> 00:32.680\n部長早在我開始質詢之前我也想要先呼應一下我們的陳廷飛趙偉他所提的這個老農福利津貼的這個修正因為本席有提一個版本喔那有關於就是說這個排富的部分喔本席的版本是1000萬\n\n00:33.720 --> 00:53.849\n那農業業外收入跟我們陳文昭委一樣是60萬那我也在這裡呼籲我們農業部可以儘速的趕快把這件事情重視然後能夠儘速進到我們委員會來我們可以把這件事情順利的來完成讓老農的福利可以讓他們安心\n\n00:54.909 --> 01:18.003\n會的我想我們我也知道委員有提版本因為各個委員的版本我們都有收集而且也有做評估然後我們也有把方案提到行政院去那目前你們的方案內容大概會是朝什麼方向呢基本上我們的牌付因為行政院還沒有通過沒辦法講具體的但是基本上我們的牌付我們會根據土地的公告限值的一個增幅去做一些調整\n\n01:18.723 --> 01:35.960\n好那我接下來也是攸關農民生計的問題喔菜價尤其是短週期的小夜菜類那這幾年農業部喊了很多政策口號那就問你一件事情喔你認為台灣的菜價是不是長期偏低呢\n\n01:37.230 --> 02:05.097\n我覺得台灣的農產品其實長期就偏低不只是菜價我覺得台灣的農產品其實它有它當地的這些風味但是有時候會跟進口的相比的時候就會被覺得太高可是以我們農民的辛苦的付出那作為農業部你有什麼作為要來協助我們這些農民呢因為我要反映一下基層農民的聲音這一項反映是不只一個人告訴我\n\n02:05.657 --> 02:30.138\n尤其更多的是來自於青農的反應那很多青農告訴我說10年前他們還會年輕人之間互相鼓勵說我們一起回家務農但是現在他根本不敢了因為菜價是長期低迷根本賺不到錢實在太苦了以今年為例從1月到現在大家都是賠的賠多賠少而已那根本賺不到錢那務農沒有未來\n\n02:32.680 --> 02:53.608\n我們的農業怎麼樣可長可久呢你聽了有沒有很心酸呢農業部有沒有掌握說到底是什麼樣子的原因造成這個問題我跟委員報告其實這個議題我們也一直希望說能夠有一個更好的這些計劃性的生產因為回到市場一定是量價的問題我舉個例子像高麗菜\n\n02:54.588 --> 03:14.123\n就種太多的我都可以預期在70天以後高麗菜一定價格非常低所以怎麼樣的跟青農我們現在也持續跟青農我現在是在講這個短週期的小葉菜類所以我才會說我舉這個例子就是說我們應該有一個更好的一個協調系統跟產銷系統是但是這個事情10年前我們問也是這樣10年後農業部真的想不出辦法嗎我很難過的告訴你說假設100個農民\n\n03:23.510 --> 03:35.508\n今年如果種葉菜類的至少有85個農民賠錢那怎麼辦呢那到底你們有什麼樣的作為呢因為我目前看來喔只要是風災來臨時價格稍微高漲\n\n03:41.140 --> 04:04.391\n農業部就會釋出硬質蔬菜能動的硬質蔬菜雖然他不是小葉菜類但是蔬菜是有可取代性的所以他一定會影響到一般葉菜類的價格農民開始反應真的他們真的很可憐你知道嗎價格高的時候他們是沒有量可以賣的那價格低的時候全部都要耕除\n\n04:05.251 --> 04:23.302\n那這個部分我們現在農業部的作為是什麼我跟委員報告就是謝業委員這樣關心但是我們的滾動倉儲絕對不會去打壓本土的菜市場這個我可以承諾我們一定是在特別是像短節業菜類的時候它一定是30天以後才能夠再上市嘛\n\n04:23.962 --> 04:31.025\n我就要你這一句保證就是你不會去打壓他們的菜價因為你知道現在基層的農民對於農業部對於部長會覺得說你們怎麼會菜價偏低的時候對菜價偏低的時候是市場機制菜價稍微高漲一點你們就要把它壓低我現在要問的是農業部你們的第一\n\n04:49.671 --> 04:59.715\n第一原則是保障農民是照顧農民你們不是物價不違絕對是這樣子我們一定是照顧我們的農民我們也不會用進口的蔬菜來打壓本地的你們不是物價控制不違你知道嗎這個是農民一再的他們覺得說怎麼會我們辛辛苦苦在這裡種植農業部應該是我們的靠山結果\n\n05:15.740 --> 05:24.003\n每一次菜價稍微一高農業部就開始釋出一些冷凍的蔬菜我覺得這是一個造謠我們在滾動倉儲釋出的時候一定是因為假設是這樣的話等於就是把穩定物價的責任都推在農民身上了壓力都壓在農民身上損失都在農民身上所以我當然希望農業部還是希望你們要滅火你們要能夠把農民照顧好你們把農民照顧好\n\n05:44.930 --> 06:04.427\n我們也為你們拍拍手也為你們按讚嘛這個是我們共同的期待那另外呢我想要講一個結構性的問題啦就是說有一個可能你們也長期不願意面對的灰色現實就是逃逸外勞你知道逃逸外勞為什麼是菜價低迷的原因嗎我講給你聽\n\n06:08.834 --> 06:14.098\n是啊他現在已經不是幫農民打工了他不是說在幫農民種菜讓農民可以賺到錢他現在自己有工頭他公投自己去租地他自己有他自己的工人他的等於是他的成本比較低甚至說他是非法身份沒有成本考量濫用藥物快速生產\n\n06:33.453 --> 06:36.097\n用極低的價格銷售到市場這已經不是非法僱用的問題了這等於是用非法的低成本在打擊我們台灣合法的本土農民那這個問題怎麼解決呢\n\n06:49.808 --> 07:03.693\n我想我們可能要更精準的去掌握這些您剛才所說的這些逃逸的外勞所以你們目前是沒有掌握是嗎我們是有部分的掌握但是這個是整個系統性結構的問題所以我們系統性結構我同意我同意是系統性結構的問題所以你要提供他們足夠的合法外勞\n\n07:10.955 --> 07:20.500\n否則農民他也會怕你把外勞都抓走了他沒有人可以協助他呀所以現在就是你一定要先把合法的外勞找進來之後你才辦法取締這些非法的外勞否則現在這些灰色地帶的外勞已經不是農民的幫手他們是農民的\n\n07:30.526 --> 07:44.656\n我跟委員報告委員非常關鍵這個我想我們增加合法的外勞今年度到2萬多個我也跟勞動部長洪部長這邊也承諾就是我們有需要的時候還可以增加而且我也增加相關的限制\n\n07:45.416 --> 08:10.035\n把相關的限制放寬包括它的品項的部分都可以增加所以這個部分可以讓更多的農業經營者可以用到合法的外勞其實部長我想你這個方向是正確但是真的要加快腳步然後量也一定要增加那我也希望說農為國本國本的基礎就是農民要有合理的收入跟尊嚴這一點我也希望您能夠繼續重視我們一定會重視的好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.433,"end":7.674,"text":"主席我想請陳部長我們請陳部長"},{"start":15.253,"end":32.68,"text":"部長早在我開始質詢之前我也想要先呼應一下我們的陳廷飛 趙偉他所提的這個老農福利津貼的這個修正因為本席有提一個版本喔那有關於就是說這個排富的部分喔本席的版本是1000萬"},{"start":33.72,"end":53.849,"text":"那農業業外收入跟我們陳文昭委一樣是60萬那我也在這裡呼籲我們農業部可以儘速的趕快把這件事情重視然後能夠儘速進到我們委員會來我們可以把這件事情順利的來完成讓老農的福利可以讓他們安心"},{"start":54.909,"end":78.003,"text":"會的 我想我們我也知道委員有提版本因為各個委員的版本我們都有收集而且也有做評估然後我們也有把方案提到行政院去那目前你們的方案內容大概會是朝什麼方向呢基本上我們的牌付因為行政院還沒有通過沒辦法講具體的但是基本上我們的牌付我們會根據土地的公告限值的一個增幅去做一些調整"},{"start":78.723,"end":95.96,"text":"好那我接下來也是攸關農民生計的問題喔菜價尤其是短週期的小夜菜類那這幾年農業部喊了很多政策口號那就問你一件事情喔你認為台灣的菜價是不是長期偏低呢"},{"start":97.23,"end":125.097,"text":"我覺得台灣的農產品其實長期就偏低不只是菜價我覺得台灣的農產品其實它有它當地的這些風味但是有時候會跟進口的相比的時候就會被覺得太高可是以我們農民的辛苦的付出那作為農業部你有什麼作為要來協助我們這些農民呢因為我要反映一下基層農民的聲音這一項反映是不只一個人告訴我"},{"start":125.657,"end":150.138,"text":"尤其更多的是來自於青農的反應那很多青農告訴我說10年前他們還會年輕人之間互相鼓勵說我們一起回家務農但是現在他根本不敢了因為菜價是長期低迷根本賺不到錢實在太苦了以今年為例從1月到現在大家都是賠的賠多賠少而已那根本賺不到錢那務農沒有未來"},{"start":152.68,"end":173.608,"text":"我們的農業怎麼樣可長可久呢你聽了有沒有很心酸呢農業部有沒有掌握說到底是什麼樣子的原因造成這個問題我跟委員報告其實這個議題我們也一直希望說能夠有一個更好的這些計劃性的生產因為回到市場一定是量價的問題我舉個例子像高麗菜"},{"start":174.588,"end":194.123,"text":"就種太多的我都可以預期在70天以後高麗菜一定價格非常低所以怎麼樣的跟青農我們現在也持續跟青農我現在是在講這個短週期的小葉菜類所以我才會說我舉這個例子就是說我們應該有一個更好的一個協調系統跟產銷系統是 但是這個事情10年前我們問也是這樣10年後農業部真的想不出辦法嗎我很難過的告訴你說假設100個農民"},{"start":203.51,"end":215.508,"text":"今年如果種葉菜類的至少有85個農民賠錢那怎麼辦呢那到底你們有什麼樣的作為呢 因為我目前看來喔只要是風災來臨時價格稍微高漲"},{"start":221.14,"end":244.391,"text":"農業部就會釋出硬質蔬菜能動的硬質蔬菜雖然他不是小葉菜類但是蔬菜是有可取代性的所以他一定會影響到一般葉菜類的價格農民開始反應真的他們真的很可憐你知道嗎價格高的時候他們是沒有量可以賣的那價格低的時候全部都要耕除"},{"start":245.251,"end":263.302,"text":"那這個部分我們現在農業部的作為是什麼我跟委員報告就是謝業委員這樣關心但是我們的滾動倉儲絕對不會去打壓本土的菜市場這個我可以承諾我們一定是在特別是像短節業菜類的時候它一定是30天以後才能夠再上市嘛"},{"start":263.962,"end":271.025,"text":"我就要你這一句保證就是你不會去打壓他們的菜價因為你知道現在基層的農民對於農業部對於部長會覺得說你們怎麼會菜價偏低的時候對 菜價偏低的時候是市場機制菜價稍微高漲一點你們就要把它壓低我現在要問的是農業部你們的第一"},{"start":289.671,"end":299.715,"text":"第一原則是保障農民是照顧農民你們不是物價不違絕對是這樣子我們一定是照顧我們的農民我們也不會用進口的蔬菜來打壓本地的你們不是物價控制不違你知道嗎這個是農民一再的他們覺得說怎麼會我們辛辛苦苦在這裡種植農業部應該是我們的靠山結果"},{"start":315.74,"end":324.003,"text":"每一次菜價稍微一高農業部就開始釋出一些冷凍的蔬菜我覺得這是一個造謠我們在滾動倉儲釋出的時候一定是因為假設是這樣的話等於就是把穩定物價的責任都推在農民身上了壓力都壓在農民身上損失都在農民身上所以我當然希望農業部還是希望你們要滅火你們要能夠把農民照顧好你們把農民照顧好"},{"start":344.93,"end":364.427,"text":"我們也為你們拍拍手也為你們按讚嘛這個是我們共同的期待那另外呢我想要講一個結構性的問題啦就是說有一個可能你們也長期不願意面對的灰色現實就是逃逸外勞你知道逃逸外勞為什麼是菜價低迷的原因嗎我講給你聽"},{"start":368.834,"end":374.098,"text":"是啊 他現在已經不是幫農民打工了他不是說在幫農民種菜 讓農民可以賺到錢他現在自己有工頭他公投自己去租地 他自己有他自己的工人他的 等於是他的成本比較低甚至說 他是非法身份沒有成本考量 濫用藥物 快速生產"},{"start":393.453,"end":396.097,"text":"用極低的價格銷售到市場這已經不是非法僱用的問題了這等於是用非法的低成本在打擊我們台灣合法的本土農民那這個問題怎麼解決呢"},{"start":409.808,"end":423.693,"text":"我想我們可能要更精準的去掌握這些您剛才所說的這些逃逸的外勞所以你們目前是沒有掌握是嗎我們是有部分的掌握但是這個是整個系統性結構的問題所以我們系統性結構我同意我同意是系統性結構的問題所以你要提供他們足夠的合法外勞"},{"start":430.955,"end":440.5,"text":"否則農民他也會怕你把外勞都抓走了他沒有人可以協助他呀所以現在就是你一定要先把合法的外勞找進來之後你才辦法取締這些非法的外勞否則現在這些灰色地帶的外勞已經不是農民的幫手他們是農民的"},{"start":450.526,"end":464.656,"text":"我跟委員報告委員非常關鍵這個我想我們增加合法的外勞今年度到2萬多個我也跟勞動部長洪部長這邊也承諾就是我們有需要的時候還可以增加而且我也增加相關的限制"},{"start":465.416,"end":490.035,"text":"把相關的限制放寬包括它的品項的部分都可以增加所以這個部分可以讓更多的農業經營者可以用到合法的外勞其實部長我想你這個方向是正確但是真的要加快腳步然後量也一定要增加那我也希望說農為國本國本的基礎就是農民要有合理的收入跟尊嚴這一點我也希望您能夠繼續重視我們一定會重視的好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":256,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時10分）主席，我想請陳部長。"],["主席：我們請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長早。在我開始質詢之前，我也想要先呼應一下我們陳亭妃召委所提的老農福利津貼修正，因為本席也有提一個版本，有關於排富的部分，本席的版本是1,000萬，農業業外收入跟我們陳召委一樣是60萬，我也在這裡呼籲農業部可以儘速的趕快把這件事情重視，然後能夠儘速進到委員會來，我們可以把這件事情順利地來完成，使老農福利可以讓他們安心。"],["陳部長駿季：會的。我也知道委員有提版本，因為各個委員的版本，我們都有收集，而且也有做評估，我們也有把方案提到行政院去。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，目前你們的方案內容大概會是朝什麼方向？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上，因為行政院還沒有通過，沒辦法講具體的，但是基本上我們的排富會根據土地公告現值的增幅去做一些調整。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。好，接下來也是攸關農民生計的問題──菜價，尤其是短週期的小葉菜類，這幾年農業部喊了很多政策口號，就問你一件事情，你認為臺灣的菜價是不是長期偏低呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得臺灣的農產品其實長期就偏低，不只是菜價。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得臺灣的農產品其實有它當地的風味，但有時跟進口的相比就會被覺得太高，可是以我們農民的辛苦付出，值得比較高的……"],["張委員嘉郡：身為農業部，你有什麼作為要來協助我們這些農民呢？我要反映一下基層農民的聲音，這一項反應不只一個人告訴我，尤其更多的是來自於青農的反應，很多青農告訴我說，10年前年輕人之間還會互相鼓勵說我們一起回家務農，但是現在他根本不敢了，因為菜價是長期低迷，根本賺不到錢，實在太苦了。以今年為例，從1月到現在，大家都是賠的，賠多賠少而已，根本賺不到錢，務農沒有未來，我們的農業怎麼樣可長可久？你聽了有沒有很心酸呢？農業部有沒有掌握到底是什麼樣的原因造成這個問題？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，其實這個議題，我們也一直希望能夠有一個更好的這些計畫性的生產，因為回到市場一定是量價的問題，我舉個例子像高麗菜就種太多，我都可以預期在70天以後，高麗菜價格一定非常低，所以怎麼樣跟青農……我們現在持續跟青農……"],["張委員嘉郡：我現在是在講短週期的小葉菜類。"],["陳部長駿季：葉菜類，我知道，所以我舉這個例子就是說我們應該有一個更好的協調系統……"],["張委員嘉郡：是，但是這一個事情10年前我們問你也是這樣，10年後農業部真的想不出辦法嗎？我很難過的告訴你，假設今年如果100個農民種葉菜類，至少有85個農民賠錢，那怎麼辦呢？到底你們有什麼樣的作為呢？因為我目前看來，只要是風災來臨時，價格稍微高漲，農業部就會釋出冷凍硬質蔬菜，雖然它不是小葉菜類，但是蔬菜是有可取代性的，所以它一定會影響到一般葉菜類的價格，農民開始反應，他們真的很可憐，你知道嗎？價格高的時候，他們是沒有量可以賣的，價格低的時候全部都要耕除，這個部分我們現在農業部的作為是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，謝謝委員這樣關心，但是我們的滾動倉貯絕對不會去打壓本土的菜價，這個我可以承諾，我們一定是在……特別是像短期葉菜類的部分，它一定是30天以後才能再上市……"],["張委員嘉郡：我就要你這一句保證，就是你不會去打壓他們的菜價。"],["陳部長駿季：我們絕對不會去打壓。"],["張委員嘉郡：你知道現在基層農民對於農業部、對於部長，會覺得你們怎麼會在菜價偏低的時候……"],["陳部長駿季：這也是剛才陳委員講的，這是一個造謠、這是一個造謠……"],["張委員嘉郡：菜價變低的時候是市場機制，菜價稍微高漲一點你們就要把它壓低，我現在要問的是，農業部的第一原則是保障農民、照顧農民，你們不是物價部耶！"],["陳部長駿季：絕對是這樣子，我們一定是照顧我們的農民，我們也不會用進口蔬菜來打壓本土的……"],["張委員嘉郡：你們不是物價控制部耶！你知道嗎？這是農民一再反映的心聲，他們覺得他們辛辛苦苦種植，農業部應該是他們的靠山，結果每一次菜價稍微一高，農業部就開始釋出一些冷凍蔬菜。"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得這是一個造謠，我們在滾動倉儲釋出的時候，一定是全臺灣沒有……"],["張委員嘉郡：假設是這樣的話，等於是把穩定物價的責任都推在農民身上，壓力都壓在農民身上，損失都在農民身上，所以我當然還是希望農業部要滅火，你們要能夠把農民照顧好，你們把農民照顧好，我們也為你們拍拍手，也為你們按讚嘛！這個是我們共同的期待。","另外我想要講一個結構性的問題，這可能是你們長期不願意面對的灰色現實，也就是逃逸外勞，你知道逃逸外勞為什麼是菜價低迷的原因嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：他自己去種啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊！他現在已經不是幫農民打工，他不是在幫農民種菜，讓農民可以賺到錢，他現在自己有工頭，工頭自己去租地，他自己有他自己的工人，等於是他的成本比較低，甚至他是非法身分，沒有成本考量、濫用藥物、快速生產，用極低的價格銷售到市場，這已經不是非法僱用的問題了，這等於是用非法的低成本在打擊臺灣合法的本土農民，這個問題怎麼解決呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們可能要更精準地去掌握您剛才所說的這些逃逸外勞去租地……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你們目前是沒有掌握的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們是有部分的掌握，但這是整個系統性結構的問題，所以我們要更精準的……"],["張委員嘉郡：我同意這是系統性結構的問題，所以你要提供他們足夠的合法外勞，否則農民他也會怕啊！你把外勞都抓走了，沒有人可以協助他啊！現在就是你一定要先把合法的外勞找進來之後，你才有辦法取締這些非法的外勞，否則現在這一些灰色地帶的外勞已經不是農民的幫手，他們是農民的對手！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，委員非常關心這個問題，我們增加合法的外勞今年度到兩萬多個，勞動部洪部長也承諾，就是我們有需要的時候還可以增加，而且我也把相關的限制放寬，包括品項的部分都可以增加，所以這個部分可以讓更多的農業經營者用到合法的外勞。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，我想你這個方向是正確的，但是真的要加快腳步，然後量也一定要增加。農為國本，國本的基礎就是農民要有合理的收入跟尊嚴，這一點我也希望您能夠繼續重視。"],["陳部長駿季：我們一定會重視的，謝謝。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員的質詢，謝謝部長。","請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-3","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra 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