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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 470.185, \"end\": 470.685, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"失\", \"start\": 470.685, \"end\": 470.886, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 470.886, \"end\": 471.246, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 471.246, \"end\": 471.346, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 471.346, \"end\": 471.666, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 471.666, \"end\": 471.927, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 471.927, \"end\": 472.727, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 472.727, \"end\": 472.887, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 472.887, \"end\": 472.988, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 472.988, \"end\": 473.528, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 473.528, \"end\": 473.728, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 473.728, \"end\": 474.269, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 474.269, \"end\": 474.429, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 474.429, \"end\": 474.749, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 474.749, \"end\": 475.47, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 475.47, \"end\": 475.73, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 475.73, \"end\": 476.05, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 476.05, \"end\": 477.231, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"抒\"}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 477.231, \"end\": 477.372, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 477.372, \"end\": 477.532, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 477.532, \"end\": 478.432, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 478.432, \"end\": 478.593, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 478.593, \"end\": 479.113, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 479.113, \"end\": 479.273, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 479.273, \"end\": 479.493, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 479.493, \"end\": 479.674, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 479.674, \"end\": 479.694, \"score\": 0.764}]}, {\"start\": 480.575, \"end\": 494.955, \"text\": \"給予一些相關的一個協助那我也看到我們的應該是蔡署長日前在接受金週刊的時候專訪的時候也有提到就是說針對民間企業的一個資安政府會主動性在提升\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"予\", \"start\": 480.575, \"end\": 480.715, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 480.715, \"end\": 480.815, \"score\": 0.534}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 480.815, \"end\": 480.955, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 480.955, \"end\": 481.336, \"score\": 0.7}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 481.336, \"end\": 481.456, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 481.456, \"end\": 482.057, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 482.057, \"end\": 482.497, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 482.497, \"end\": 482.658, \"score\": 0.713}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 482.658, \"end\": 482.798, \"score\": 0.732}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 482.798, \"end\": 482.958, \"score\": 0.563}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 482.958, \"end\": 483.158, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 483.158, \"end\": 483.319, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 483.319, \"end\": 483.659, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 483.659, \"end\": 484.821, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 484.821, \"end\": 485.061, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"蔡\", \"start\": 485.061, \"end\": 485.261, \"score\": 0.708}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 485.261, \"end\": 486.083, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 486.083, \"end\": 486.263, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 486.263, \"end\": 486.503, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 486.503, \"end\": 486.704, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 486.704, \"end\": 486.904, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 486.904, \"end\": 487.304, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 487.304, \"end\": 487.625, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"週\"}, {\"word\": \"刊\", \"start\": 487.625, \"end\": 487.825, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 487.825, \"end\": 488.146, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 488.146, \"end\": 489.247, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"專\"}, {\"word\": \"訪\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 489.247, \"end\": 489.508, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 489.508, \"end\": 489.688, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 489.688, \"end\": 489.708, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 489.708, \"end\": 489.948, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 489.948, \"end\": 490.169, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 490.169, \"end\": 490.389, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 490.389, \"end\": 490.509, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 490.509, \"end\": 491.551, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 491.551, \"end\": 491.911, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 491.911, \"end\": 492.171, \"score\": 0.737}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 492.171, \"end\": 492.252, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 492.252, \"end\": 492.612, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 492.612, \"end\": 493.133, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 493.133, \"end\": 493.333, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 493.333, \"end\": 493.834, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 493.834, \"end\": 494.194, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 494.194, \"end\": 494.415, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 494.415, \"end\": 494.655, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 494.655, \"end\": 494.935, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 494.935, \"end\": 494.955, \"score\": 0.948}]}, {\"start\": 495.456, \"end\": 512.824, \"text\": \"那這個部分不曉得部長是不是部長可以了解一下可以回答一下就是說政府的主動性大概會做到什麼樣的程度那未來就是說在民間企業中小企業甚至農業我們速發部會扮演什麼樣的角色\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 495.456, \"end\": 495.976, \"score\": 0.618}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 495.976, \"end\": 496.096, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 496.096, \"end\": 496.196, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 496.196, \"end\": 496.497, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"曉\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 496.497, \"end\": 496.657, \"score\": 0.697}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 496.657, \"end\": 497.997, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 497.997, \"end\": 498.077, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 498.077, \"end\": 498.117, \"score\": 0.486}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 498.117, \"end\": 498.217, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 498.217, \"end\": 498.477, \"score\": 0.618}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 498.477, \"end\": 498.577, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 498.577, \"end\": 498.657, \"score\": 0.654}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 498.657, \"end\": 498.878, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 498.878, \"end\": 498.998, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 498.998, \"end\": 499.058, \"score\": 0.495}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 499.058, \"end\": 499.738, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 499.738, \"end\": 499.838, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 499.838, \"end\": 499.898, \"score\": 0.313}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 499.898, \"end\": 500.098, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"答\", \"start\": 500.098, \"end\": 500.298, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 500.298, \"end\": 500.358, \"score\": 0.592}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 500.358, \"end\": 500.718, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 500.718, \"end\": 500.898, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 500.898, \"end\": 501.379, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 501.379, \"end\": 501.599, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"府\", \"start\": 501.599, \"end\": 501.719, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 501.719, \"end\": 501.859, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 501.859, \"end\": 502.279, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 502.279, \"end\": 503.86, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 503.86, \"end\": 504.0, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"概\", \"start\": 504.0, \"end\": 504.82, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 504.82, \"end\": 504.98, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 504.98, \"end\": 505.12, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 505.12, \"end\": 505.4, \"score\": 0.648}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 505.4, \"end\": 505.561, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 505.561, \"end\": 505.841, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 505.841, \"end\": 506.181, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 506.181, \"end\": 506.961, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 506.961, \"end\": 507.441, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 507.441, \"end\": 507.601, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 507.601, \"end\": 507.761, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 507.761, \"end\": 508.482, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 508.482, \"end\": 508.862, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 508.862, \"end\": 509.162, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 509.162, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 633.799, \"end\": 633.919, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"勉\"}, {\"word\": \"励\", \"start\": 633.919, \"end\": 634.42, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 634.42, \"end\": 634.54, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 634.54, \"end\": 634.64, \"score\": 0.679}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 634.64, \"end\": 634.66, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,576 --> 00:00:03,042\n謝謝主席請主席邀請部長來林部長請\n\n2\n00:00:09,619 --> 00:00:34,689\n委員早安林部長早我想今天很多委員都在關心這個央廣就是被駭客入侵那首頁被置換為這個五星旗的這個事件然後由這個事件所衍生出來的這個幕後這個真的是非常骯髒齷齪的一面讓我們覺得真的是引起社會的一個嘩然那另外就是這個\n\n3\n00:00:36,990 --> 00:01:05,916\n就是說這個事件就是爆發出這個某性那個某立委就是利用這個駭客當作義工去就是入侵政府的機關然後也入侵這個戶政的一個資料去肉搜就是對於在網路上發表對他不利言論的人然後收集他的個資之後來公開所以這兩個事件顯示出我們的這個政府的治安真的是非常的薄弱不只是破口\n\n4\n00:01:07,196 --> 00:01:31,089\n這麼輕易的這應該是人安不是資安其實不是技術上出了問題是人出了問題是人出了問題是那戶政的部分如果說中廣這個央廣央廣這個有可能是人安因為他是內部的員工可是戶政系統那個部長你認為這個也是人安嗎這不是外部入侵的嗎戶政系統的這個事情我們請那個資安署署長\n\n5\n00:01:32,873 --> 00:01:50,141\n是謝謝委員我想附贈系統當然是有一些資料因為當然他在房屋上面有一些小小的這些問題不過我想附贈部分這幾年因為已給這個他的原來執行中心在做處理所以在附近系統方面的這些治安其實已經加強非常多以上\n\n6\n00:01:51,175 --> 00:02:10,820\n是那我們也要就有這兩件事件去檢討然後要怎樣去加強這個防護嘛我不管說這個護證系統目前是你說移交給哪個單位在主管可是整個這個就是資訊安全的一個系統的一個防護我想我們書發布也是應該有責任是沒錯可以協助跟指導\n\n7\n00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:29,710\n沒錯如同我剛才在業務報告裡面有講我們是從事前事中事後的防護我們在資安署以及資安院我們都設置了各種機制就是盡量來把政府的資安把它加強把各種破洞把它堵住\n\n8\n00:02:32,222 --> 00:02:50,096\n剛剛當然就是說資安的話資安的破口可能就是系統軟體的一個加強剛剛部長提到說你把它定位為說這個是人安以陽廣的事情來講應該是人安人安的話這可能就更防不勝防了\n\n9\n00:02:50,296 --> 00:03:12,567\n是沒錯那這個因為央廣的主管機關是文化部但是因為央廣屬於國家關鍵基礎設施所以它的資安是由速發部來監管的所以我們接到那時候接到這個央廣的通報以後我們馬上派專家去進駐然後進駐以後我們就去查查了以後發覺說其實都是\n\n10\n00:03:13,487 --> 00:03:37,165\n应该我们的严判就是那个涉案的人员他本身就是这个网管的人员他本身就有最高权限的账户他就用这些账户去开很多的破口做了很多的事情如果说针对这一种明明他就是主管的这样子的一个权限的人还故意去做违法的一个事情那我们在这个刑责上是不是可以跟他加重\n\n11\n00:03:37,826 --> 00:03:46,584\n是這個當然是說中長期來講的話我們可能要透過修法來加那個目前的行刑者是怎麼樣抱歉\n\n12\n00:03:48,180 --> 00:04:08,386\n是謝謝委員目前有關電腦的判罪是在刑法裡面的359條裡面有提到是說假設這個取得相關的系統或是刪除或是一些更換的話是換了電腦的這個相關的一些使用罪那這個罪在刑法359條裡面有相關的規範\n\n13\n00:04:10,318 --> 00:04:25,126\n我想這個是非常嚴重而且非常重要的一部分因為資安的話我們可以透過軟體科技那是硬體的部分的一個加強可是人安的話你要怎樣去落實管理尤其面對我們現在每個機關因為就是資訊化的一個時代我們過去在委員會也討論到每一個機關有關資訊長資安長的一個設立的部分\n\n14\n00:04:35,951 --> 00:04:54,779\n那如果說未來這個有關資訊掌管資訊安全的人反而變成是一個內部犯罪的人那我覺得這個是一個非常嚴重的一個問題我們對資安人員都有特殊的查核確定是他的安全性那當然是這些事件可能還是出現了一些破口我們以後會改進\n\n15\n00:04:55,607 --> 00:05:17,867\n那就是說希望針對這個部分我們要再去思考怎樣去防範那接下來我要講的就是說對於就是內部的這個作為我們要加強之外我們對外部的一個駭客的一個罔工因為今天國安局的一個郵報告裡面他也有提到我國政府網路每日遭受到罔工就是高達280萬次\n\n16\n00:05:19,949 --> 00:05:40,246\n那這個供給它又是鎖定在我國的政府機關還有關鍵基礎設施以及產業供應鏈這幾個部分所以我們在面對這個中共它是發動國家層級的一個網供那這樣子的話我們有沒有能力去應付跟防護\n\n17\n00:05:42,228 --> 00:06:01,865\n在防護這方面我們的政策是希望說一方從兩方面來著手一方面是政府政府我們的資安署資安院我們要加強我們的能量讓政府有更大的能力去保護我們的政府還有我們的關鍵基礎設施另外我們也會第二個政策就是希望\n\n18\n00:06:02,526 --> 00:06:24,745\n在台湾有一个非常健康的资安产业事实上台湾的软体产业不是特别强但是台湾的资安软体产业是相当强的那包含委员所提到的产业供应链我们现在就是跟那个Semi还有那个台积电我们就推出了一个Semi1187的标准就是希望说我们做那个资安的就是在整个产业链除了\n\n19\n00:06:25,606 --> 00:06:54,539\n保護好我們的台積電以外台積電的上游下游我們都要把它保護好避免駭客利用台積電的上游或下游作為跳板去攻擊台積電這個是整個策略上或者是我們Semi-1187的概念而這本身其實也是一個很大的商機我們希望台灣的資安產業都能掌握到這個商機在保護好我們的產業供應鏈保護好我們的政府或民間公司之外他們也能賺錢\n\n20\n00:06:57,238 --> 00:07:13,907\n對於有關網路資訊安全非常重要所以針對屬於自動安全責任等級的A級包括護證系統的資料或者是廣電傳播設施這個部分我們希望速發部要去加強\n\n21\n00:07:15,047 --> 00:07:41,878\n那另外我剛有提到就是說面對境外的一個攻擊他不只是攻擊政府機關關鍵基礎設施甚至這個傳統就是傳產就是產業產業的這個區域這個領域他們也是他們的攻擊的一個目標那我們也看到不管是中小企業或者是甚至農業因為現在農業都會利用這個智慧農業就是透過手機的一個遠端遙控\n\n22\n00:07:42,678 --> 00:07:59,694\n去做一個生產的一個控制那我們也有發現就是有被駭客入侵然後造成這個榮有損失的這樣子一個案例所以我們就是說希望在這個部分我們抒發部也要就是多加的去\n\n23\n00:08:00,575 --> 00:08:14,955\n給予一些相關的一個協助那我也看到我們的應該是蔡署長日前在接受金週刊的時候專訪的時候也有提到就是說針對民間企業的一個資安政府會主動性在提升\n\n24\n00:08:15,456 --> 00:08:32,824\n那這個部分不曉得部長是不是部長可以了解一下可以回答一下就是說政府的主動性大概會做到什麼樣的程度那未來就是說在民間企業中小企業甚至農業我們速發部會扮演什麼樣的角色\n\n25\n00:08:34,205 --> 00:08:49,664\n其實這些中小企業的那個資安或者是農業的這個資安最大的問題是說通常在這個中小企業他並沒有專業的資訊人員他更不用講說專業的資安人員了所以他對自己的保護當然是沒辦法做到很好可能財力不夠或人才不足\n\n26\n00:08:50,685 --> 00:09:06,516\n對我們覺得最好的方法就是鼓勵中小企業盡量使用雲端的服務因為雲端的服務就是雲端的公司它去譬如說我們用E-mail來講以前那個各個中小企業各自設立那個E-mailserver的時候E-mail伺服器的時候常常會受到駭客的攻擊\n\n27\n00:09:07,156 --> 00:09:19,483\n但是現在國人大家都很習慣用像Gmail這種雲端的這種網路這個E-mail服務的時候這個資安就是會由Google或者是台灣的這些資訊業者他去負責\n\n28\n00:09:22,325 --> 00:09:40,106\n所以這個就可以把這個資安防護的責任就是轉移到這個提供雲端服務或者是標準化產品的這些廠商那這也是契合我們現在速發部一個政策就是鼓勵台灣的軟體產業盡量去發展產品而不是做一個專案因為如果說做成標準化產品的話\n\n29\n00:09:41,167 --> 00:10:06,145\n那就由這些標準化軟體產品的公司他負責把他的產品的資安做好如果他做不好的話他自然會喪失他的訂單所以他有他的Motivation他會想辦法把這個事情做好這也是我們另外講的一個我們的產業的策略就是我們希望利用民間資安產業的力量去守護台灣不管是政府或者民間企業的資安\n\n30\n00:10:06,690 --> 00:10:34,660\n是我想现在是一个网络资讯一个发展非常迅速的一个时代所以有关治安的一个防护不管是政府机关或者是关键基础设施甚至民间企业还有这个农业真的每一个行业真的是都需要我们这个抒发部来给予大力的一个协助所以也希望部长在这方面要多加的一个就是担起这个重责大任是谢谢委员的勉励谢谢好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1576\t3042\t謝謝主席 請主席邀請部長來 林部長請\n9619\t34689\t委員早安林部長早我想今天很多委員都在關心這個央廣就是被駭客入侵那首頁被置換為這個五星旗的這個事件然後由這個事件所衍生出來的這個幕後這個真的是非常骯髒齷齪的一面讓我們覺得真的是引起社會的一個嘩然那另外就是這個\n36990\t65916\t就是說這個事件就是爆發出這個某性那個某立委就是利用這個駭客當作義工去就是入侵政府的機關然後也入侵這個戶政的一個資料去肉搜就是對於在網路上發表對他不利言論的人然後收集他的個資之後來公開所以這兩個事件顯示出我們的這個政府的治安真的是非常的薄弱不只是破口\n67196\t91089\t這麼輕易的這應該是人安不是資安其實不是技術上出了問題是人出了問題是人出了問題是那戶政的部分如果說中廣這個央廣央廣這個有可能是人安因為他是內部的員工可是戶政系統那個部長你認為這個也是人安嗎這不是外部入侵的嗎戶政系統的這個事情我們請那個資安署署長\n92873\t110141\t是 謝謝委員 我想附贈系統當然是有一些資料因為當然他在房屋上面有一些小小的這些問題不過我想附贈部分這幾年因為已給這個他的原來執行中心在做處理所以在附近系統方面的這些治安其實已經加強非常多 以上\n111175\t130820\t是 那我們也要就有這兩件事件去檢討然後要怎樣去加強這個防護嘛我不管說這個護證系統目前是你說移交給哪個單位在主管可是整個這個就是資訊安全的一個系統的一個防護我想我們書發布也是應該有責任是 沒錯可以協助跟指導\n131400\t149710\t沒錯 如同我剛才在業務報告裡面有講我們是從事前事中事後的防護我們在資安署以及資安院我們都設置了各種機制就是盡量來把政府的資安把它加強把各種破洞把它堵住\n152222\t170096\t剛剛當然就是說資安的話資安的破口可能就是系統軟體的一個加強剛剛部長提到說你把它定位為說這個是人安以陽廣的事情來講應該是人安人安的話這可能就更防不勝防了\n170296\t192567\t是 沒錯 那這個因為央廣的主管機關是文化部但是因為央廣屬於國家關鍵基礎設施所以它的資安是由速發部來監管的所以我們接到那時候接到這個央廣的通報以後我們馬上派專家去進駐然後進駐以後我們就去查查了以後發覺說其實都是\n193487\t217165\t应该我们的严判就是那个涉案的人员他本身就是这个网管的人员他本身就有最高权限的账户他就用这些账户去开很多的破口做了很多的事情如果说针对这一种明明他就是主管的这样子的一个权限的人还故意去做违法的一个事情那我们在这个刑责上是不是可以跟他加重\n217826\t226584\t是 這個當然是說中長期來講的話我們可能要透過修法來加那個目前的行刑者是怎麼樣抱歉\n228180\t248386\t是 謝謝委員 目前有關電腦的判罪是在刑法裡面的359條裡面有提到是說 假設這個取得相關的系統或是刪除或是一些更換的話 是換了電腦的這個相關的一些使用罪 那這個罪在刑法359條裡面有相關的規範\n250318\t265126\t我想這個是非常嚴重而且非常重要的一部分因為資安的話我們可以透過軟體科技那是硬體的部分的一個加強可是人安的話你要怎樣去落實管理尤其面對我們現在每個機關因為就是資訊化的一個時代我們過去在委員會也討論到每一個機關有關資訊長資安長的一個設立的部分\n275951\t294779\t那如果說未來這個有關資訊掌管資訊安全的人反而變成是一個內部犯罪的人那我覺得這個是一個非常嚴重的一個問題我們對資安人員都有特殊的查核確定是他的安全性那當然是這些事件可能還是出現了一些破口我們以後會改進\n295607\t317867\t那就是說希望針對這個部分我們要再去思考怎樣去防範那接下來我要講的就是說對於就是內部的這個作為我們要加強之外我們對外部的一個駭客的一個罔工因為今天國安局的一個郵報告裡面他也有提到我國政府網路每日遭受到罔工就是高達280萬次\n319949\t340246\t那這個供給它又是鎖定在我國的政府機關還有關鍵基礎設施以及產業供應鏈這幾個部分所以我們在面對這個中共它是發動國家層級的一個網供那這樣子的話我們有沒有能力去應付跟防護\n342228\t361865\t在防護這方面我們的政策是希望說一方從兩方面來著手一方面是政府政府我們的資安署資安院我們要加強我們的能量讓政府有更大的能力去保護我們的政府還有我們的關鍵基礎設施另外我們也會第二個政策就是希望\n362526\t384745\t在台湾有一个非常健康的资安产业事实上台湾的软体产业不是特别强但是台湾的资安软体产业是相当强的那包含委员所提到的产业供应链我们现在就是跟那个Semi还有那个台积电我们就推出了一个Semi 1187的标准就是希望说我们做那个资安的就是在整个产业链除了\n385606\t414539\t保護好我們的台積電以外台積電的上游 下游我們都要把它保護好避免駭客利用台積電的上游或下游作為跳板去攻擊台積電這個是整個策略上或者是我們Semi-1187的概念而這本身其實也是一個很大的商機我們希望台灣的資安產業都能掌握到這個商機在保護好我們的產業供應鏈保護好我們的政府或民間公司之外他們也能賺錢\n417238\t433907\t對於有關網路資訊安全非常重要所以針對屬於自動安全責任等級的A級包括護證系統的資料或者是廣電傳播設施這個部分我們希望速發部要去加強\n435047\t461878\t那另外我剛有提到就是說面對境外的一個攻擊他不只是攻擊政府機關關鍵基礎設施甚至這個傳統就是傳產就是產業產業的這個區域這個領域他們也是他們的攻擊的一個目標那我們也看到不管是中小企業或者是甚至農業因為現在農業都會利用這個智慧農業就是透過手機的一個遠端遙控\n462678\t479694\t去做一個生產的一個控制那我們也有發現就是有被駭客入侵然後造成這個榮有損失的這樣子一個案例所以我們就是說希望在這個部分我們抒發部也要就是多加的去\n480575\t494955\t給予一些相關的一個協助那我也看到我們的應該是蔡署長日前在接受金週刊的時候專訪的時候也有提到就是說針對民間企業的一個資安政府會主動性在提升\n495456\t512824\t那這個部分不曉得部長是不是部長可以了解一下可以回答一下就是說政府的主動性大概會做到什麼樣的程度那未來就是說在民間企業中小企業甚至農業我們速發部會扮演什麼樣的角色\n514205\t529664\t其實這些中小企業的那個資安或者是農業的這個資安最大的問題是說通常在這個中小企業他並沒有專業的資訊人員他更不用講說專業的資安人員了所以他對自己的保護當然是沒辦法做到很好可能財力不夠或人才不足\n530685\t546516\t對 我們覺得最好的方法就是鼓勵中小企業盡量使用雲端的服務因為雲端的服務就是雲端的公司它去 譬如說我們用E-mail來講以前那個各個中小企業各自設立那個E-mail server的時候E-mail伺服器的時候常常會受到駭客的攻擊\n547156\t559483\t但是現在國人大家都很習慣用像Gmail這種雲端的這種網路這個E-mail服務的時候這個資安就是會由Google或者是台灣的這些資訊業者他去負責\n562325\t580106\t所以這個就可以把這個資安防護的責任就是轉移到這個提供雲端服務或者是標準化產品的這些廠商那這也是契合我們現在速發部一個政策就是鼓勵台灣的軟體產業盡量去發展產品而不是做一個專案因為如果說做成標準化產品的話\n581167\t606145\t那就由這些標準化軟體產品的公司他負責把他的產品的資安做好如果他做不好的話他自然會喪失他的訂單所以他有他的Motivation他會想辦法把這個事情做好這也是我們另外講的一個我們的產業的策略就是我們希望利用民間資安產業的力量去守護台灣不管是政府或者民間企業的資安\n606690\t634660\t是 我想现在是一个网络资讯一个发展非常迅速的一个时代所以有关治安的一个防护不管是政府机关或者是关键基础设施甚至民间企业还有这个农业真的每一个行业真的是都需要我们这个抒发部来给予大力的一个协助所以也希望部长在这方面要多加的一个就是担起这个重责大任是 谢谢委员的勉励谢谢好\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請部長來 林部長請\n委員早安林部長早我想今天很多委員都在關心這個央廣就是被駭客入侵那首頁被置換為這個五星旗的這個事件然後由這個事件所衍生出來的這個幕後這個真的是非常骯髒齷齪的一面讓我們覺得真的是引起社會的一個嘩然那另外就是這個\n就是說這個事件就是爆發出這個某性那個某立委就是利用這個駭客當作義工去就是入侵政府的機關然後也入侵這個戶政的一個資料去肉搜就是對於在網路上發表對他不利言論的人然後收集他的個資之後來公開所以這兩個事件顯示出我們的這個政府的治安真的是非常的薄弱不只是破口\n這麼輕易的這應該是人安不是資安其實不是技術上出了問題是人出了問題是人出了問題是那戶政的部分如果說中廣這個央廣央廣這個有可能是人安因為他是內部的員工可是戶政系統那個部長你認為這個也是人安嗎這不是外部入侵的嗎戶政系統的這個事情我們請那個資安署署長\n是 謝謝委員 我想附贈系統當然是有一些資料因為當然他在房屋上面有一些小小的這些問題不過我想附贈部分這幾年因為已給這個他的原來執行中心在做處理所以在附近系統方面的這些治安其實已經加強非常多 以上\n是 那我們也要就有這兩件事件去檢討然後要怎樣去加強這個防護嘛我不管說這個護證系統目前是你說移交給哪個單位在主管可是整個這個就是資訊安全的一個系統的一個防護我想我們書發布也是應該有責任是 沒錯可以協助跟指導\n沒錯 如同我剛才在業務報告裡面有講我們是從事前事中事後的防護我們在資安署以及資安院我們都設置了各種機制就是盡量來把政府的資安把它加強把各種破洞把它堵住\n剛剛當然就是說資安的話資安的破口可能就是系統軟體的一個加強剛剛部長提到說你把它定位為說這個是人安以陽廣的事情來講應該是人安人安的話這可能就更防不勝防了\n是 沒錯 那這個因為央廣的主管機關是文化部但是因為央廣屬於國家關鍵基礎設施所以它的資安是由速發部來監管的所以我們接到那時候接到這個央廣的通報以後我們馬上派專家去進駐然後進駐以後我們就去查查了以後發覺說其實都是\n应该我们的严判就是那个涉案的人员他本身就是这个网管的人员他本身就有最高权限的账户他就用这些账户去开很多的破口做了很多的事情如果说针对这一种明明他就是主管的这样子的一个权限的人还故意去做违法的一个事情那我们在这个刑责上是不是可以跟他加重\n是 這個當然是說中長期來講的話我們可能要透過修法來加那個目前的行刑者是怎麼樣抱歉\n是 謝謝委員 目前有關電腦的判罪是在刑法裡面的359條裡面有提到是說 假設這個取得相關的系統或是刪除或是一些更換的話 是換了電腦的這個相關的一些使用罪 那這個罪在刑法359條裡面有相關的規範\n我想這個是非常嚴重而且非常重要的一部分因為資安的話我們可以透過軟體科技那是硬體的部分的一個加強可是人安的話你要怎樣去落實管理尤其面對我們現在每個機關因為就是資訊化的一個時代我們過去在委員會也討論到每一個機關有關資訊長資安長的一個設立的部分\n那如果說未來這個有關資訊掌管資訊安全的人反而變成是一個內部犯罪的人那我覺得這個是一個非常嚴重的一個問題我們對資安人員都有特殊的查核確定是他的安全性那當然是這些事件可能還是出現了一些破口我們以後會改進\n那就是說希望針對這個部分我們要再去思考怎樣去防範那接下來我要講的就是說對於就是內部的這個作為我們要加強之外我們對外部的一個駭客的一個罔工因為今天國安局的一個郵報告裡面他也有提到我國政府網路每日遭受到罔工就是高達280萬次\n那這個供給它又是鎖定在我國的政府機關還有關鍵基礎設施以及產業供應鏈這幾個部分所以我們在面對這個中共它是發動國家層級的一個網供那這樣子的話我們有沒有能力去應付跟防護\n在防護這方面我們的政策是希望說一方從兩方面來著手一方面是政府政府我們的資安署資安院我們要加強我們的能量讓政府有更大的能力去保護我們的政府還有我們的關鍵基礎設施另外我們也會第二個政策就是希望\n在台湾有一个非常健康的资安产业事实上台湾的软体产业不是特别强但是台湾的资安软体产业是相当强的那包含委员所提到的产业供应链我们现在就是跟那个Semi还有那个台积电我们就推出了一个Semi 1187的标准就是希望说我们做那个资安的就是在整个产业链除了\n保護好我們的台積電以外台積電的上游 下游我們都要把它保護好避免駭客利用台積電的上游或下游作為跳板去攻擊台積電這個是整個策略上或者是我們Semi-1187的概念而這本身其實也是一個很大的商機我們希望台灣的資安產業都能掌握到這個商機在保護好我們的產業供應鏈保護好我們的政府或民間公司之外他們也能賺錢\n對於有關網路資訊安全非常重要所以針對屬於自動安全責任等級的A級包括護證系統的資料或者是廣電傳播設施這個部分我們希望速發部要去加強\n那另外我剛有提到就是說面對境外的一個攻擊他不只是攻擊政府機關關鍵基礎設施甚至這個傳統就是傳產就是產業產業的這個區域這個領域他們也是他們的攻擊的一個目標那我們也看到不管是中小企業或者是甚至農業因為現在農業都會利用這個智慧農業就是透過手機的一個遠端遙控\n去做一個生產的一個控制那我們也有發現就是有被駭客入侵然後造成這個榮有損失的這樣子一個案例所以我們就是說希望在這個部分我們抒發部也要就是多加的去\n給予一些相關的一個協助那我也看到我們的應該是蔡署長日前在接受金週刊的時候專訪的時候也有提到就是說針對民間企業的一個資安政府會主動性在提升\n那這個部分不曉得部長是不是部長可以了解一下可以回答一下就是說政府的主動性大概會做到什麼樣的程度那未來就是說在民間企業中小企業甚至農業我們速發部會扮演什麼樣的角色\n其實這些中小企業的那個資安或者是農業的這個資安最大的問題是說通常在這個中小企業他並沒有專業的資訊人員他更不用講說專業的資安人員了所以他對自己的保護當然是沒辦法做到很好可能財力不夠或人才不足\n對 我們覺得最好的方法就是鼓勵中小企業盡量使用雲端的服務因為雲端的服務就是雲端的公司它去 譬如說我們用E-mail來講以前那個各個中小企業各自設立那個E-mail server的時候E-mail伺服器的時候常常會受到駭客的攻擊\n但是現在國人大家都很習慣用像Gmail這種雲端的這種網路這個E-mail服務的時候這個資安就是會由Google或者是台灣的這些資訊業者他去負責\n所以這個就可以把這個資安防護的責任就是轉移到這個提供雲端服務或者是標準化產品的這些廠商那這也是契合我們現在速發部一個政策就是鼓勵台灣的軟體產業盡量去發展產品而不是做一個專案因為如果說做成標準化產品的話\n那就由這些標準化軟體產品的公司他負責把他的產品的資安做好如果他做不好的話他自然會喪失他的訂單所以他有他的Motivation他會想辦法把這個事情做好這也是我們另外講的一個我們的產業的策略就是我們希望利用民間資安產業的力量去守護台灣不管是政府或者民間企業的資安\n是 我想现在是一个网络资讯一个发展非常迅速的一个时代所以有关治安的一个防护不管是政府机关或者是关键基础设施甚至民间企业还有这个农业真的每一个行业真的是都需要我们这个抒发部来给予大力的一个协助所以也希望部长在这方面要多加的一个就是担起这个重责大任是 谢谢委员的勉励谢谢好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.576 --> 00:03.042\n謝謝主席請主席邀請部長來林部長請\n\n00:09.619 --> 00:34.689\n委員早安林部長早我想今天很多委員都在關心這個央廣就是被駭客入侵那首頁被置換為這個五星旗的這個事件然後由這個事件所衍生出來的這個幕後這個真的是非常骯髒齷齪的一面讓我們覺得真的是引起社會的一個嘩然那另外就是這個\n\n00:36.990 --> 01:05.916\n就是說這個事件就是爆發出這個某性那個某立委就是利用這個駭客當作義工去就是入侵政府的機關然後也入侵這個戶政的一個資料去肉搜就是對於在網路上發表對他不利言論的人然後收集他的個資之後來公開所以這兩個事件顯示出我們的這個政府的治安真的是非常的薄弱不只是破口\n\n01:07.196 --> 01:31.089\n這麼輕易的這應該是人安不是資安其實不是技術上出了問題是人出了問題是人出了問題是那戶政的部分如果說中廣這個央廣央廣這個有可能是人安因為他是內部的員工可是戶政系統那個部長你認為這個也是人安嗎這不是外部入侵的嗎戶政系統的這個事情我們請那個資安署署長\n\n01:32.873 --> 01:50.141\n是謝謝委員我想附贈系統當然是有一些資料因為當然他在房屋上面有一些小小的這些問題不過我想附贈部分這幾年因為已給這個他的原來執行中心在做處理所以在附近系統方面的這些治安其實已經加強非常多以上\n\n01:51.175 --> 02:10.820\n是那我們也要就有這兩件事件去檢討然後要怎樣去加強這個防護嘛我不管說這個護證系統目前是你說移交給哪個單位在主管可是整個這個就是資訊安全的一個系統的一個防護我想我們書發布也是應該有責任是沒錯可以協助跟指導\n\n02:11.400 --> 02:29.710\n沒錯如同我剛才在業務報告裡面有講我們是從事前事中事後的防護我們在資安署以及資安院我們都設置了各種機制就是盡量來把政府的資安把它加強把各種破洞把它堵住\n\n02:32.222 --> 02:50.096\n剛剛當然就是說資安的話資安的破口可能就是系統軟體的一個加強剛剛部長提到說你把它定位為說這個是人安以陽廣的事情來講應該是人安人安的話這可能就更防不勝防了\n\n02:50.296 --> 03:12.567\n是沒錯那這個因為央廣的主管機關是文化部但是因為央廣屬於國家關鍵基礎設施所以它的資安是由速發部來監管的所以我們接到那時候接到這個央廣的通報以後我們馬上派專家去進駐然後進駐以後我們就去查查了以後發覺說其實都是\n\n03:13.487 --> 03:37.165\n应该我们的严判就是那个涉案的人员他本身就是这个网管的人员他本身就有最高权限的账户他就用这些账户去开很多的破口做了很多的事情如果说针对这一种明明他就是主管的这样子的一个权限的人还故意去做违法的一个事情那我们在这个刑责上是不是可以跟他加重\n\n03:37.826 --> 03:46.584\n是這個當然是說中長期來講的話我們可能要透過修法來加那個目前的行刑者是怎麼樣抱歉\n\n03:48.180 --> 04:08.386\n是謝謝委員目前有關電腦的判罪是在刑法裡面的359條裡面有提到是說假設這個取得相關的系統或是刪除或是一些更換的話是換了電腦的這個相關的一些使用罪那這個罪在刑法359條裡面有相關的規範\n\n04:10.318 --> 04:25.126\n我想這個是非常嚴重而且非常重要的一部分因為資安的話我們可以透過軟體科技那是硬體的部分的一個加強可是人安的話你要怎樣去落實管理尤其面對我們現在每個機關因為就是資訊化的一個時代我們過去在委員會也討論到每一個機關有關資訊長資安長的一個設立的部分\n\n04:35.951 --> 04:54.779\n那如果說未來這個有關資訊掌管資訊安全的人反而變成是一個內部犯罪的人那我覺得這個是一個非常嚴重的一個問題我們對資安人員都有特殊的查核確定是他的安全性那當然是這些事件可能還是出現了一些破口我們以後會改進\n\n04:55.607 --> 05:17.867\n那就是說希望針對這個部分我們要再去思考怎樣去防範那接下來我要講的就是說對於就是內部的這個作為我們要加強之外我們對外部的一個駭客的一個罔工因為今天國安局的一個郵報告裡面他也有提到我國政府網路每日遭受到罔工就是高達280萬次\n\n05:19.949 --> 05:40.246\n那這個供給它又是鎖定在我國的政府機關還有關鍵基礎設施以及產業供應鏈這幾個部分所以我們在面對這個中共它是發動國家層級的一個網供那這樣子的話我們有沒有能力去應付跟防護\n\n05:42.228 --> 06:01.865\n在防護這方面我們的政策是希望說一方從兩方面來著手一方面是政府政府我們的資安署資安院我們要加強我們的能量讓政府有更大的能力去保護我們的政府還有我們的關鍵基礎設施另外我們也會第二個政策就是希望\n\n06:02.526 --> 06:24.745\n在台湾有一个非常健康的资安产业事实上台湾的软体产业不是特别强但是台湾的资安软体产业是相当强的那包含委员所提到的产业供应链我们现在就是跟那个Semi还有那个台积电我们就推出了一个Semi1187的标准就是希望说我们做那个资安的就是在整个产业链除了\n\n06:25.606 --> 06:54.539\n保護好我們的台積電以外台積電的上游下游我們都要把它保護好避免駭客利用台積電的上游或下游作為跳板去攻擊台積電這個是整個策略上或者是我們Semi-1187的概念而這本身其實也是一個很大的商機我們希望台灣的資安產業都能掌握到這個商機在保護好我們的產業供應鏈保護好我們的政府或民間公司之外他們也能賺錢\n\n06:57.238 --> 07:13.907\n對於有關網路資訊安全非常重要所以針對屬於自動安全責任等級的A級包括護證系統的資料或者是廣電傳播設施這個部分我們希望速發部要去加強\n\n07:15.047 --> 07:41.878\n那另外我剛有提到就是說面對境外的一個攻擊他不只是攻擊政府機關關鍵基礎設施甚至這個傳統就是傳產就是產業產業的這個區域這個領域他們也是他們的攻擊的一個目標那我們也看到不管是中小企業或者是甚至農業因為現在農業都會利用這個智慧農業就是透過手機的一個遠端遙控\n\n07:42.678 --> 07:59.694\n去做一個生產的一個控制那我們也有發現就是有被駭客入侵然後造成這個榮有損失的這樣子一個案例所以我們就是說希望在這個部分我們抒發部也要就是多加的去\n\n08:00.575 --> 08:14.955\n給予一些相關的一個協助那我也看到我們的應該是蔡署長日前在接受金週刊的時候專訪的時候也有提到就是說針對民間企業的一個資安政府會主動性在提升\n\n08:15.456 --> 08:32.824\n那這個部分不曉得部長是不是部長可以了解一下可以回答一下就是說政府的主動性大概會做到什麼樣的程度那未來就是說在民間企業中小企業甚至農業我們速發部會扮演什麼樣的角色\n\n08:34.205 --> 08:49.664\n其實這些中小企業的那個資安或者是農業的這個資安最大的問題是說通常在這個中小企業他並沒有專業的資訊人員他更不用講說專業的資安人員了所以他對自己的保護當然是沒辦法做到很好可能財力不夠或人才不足\n\n08:50.685 --> 09:06.516\n對我們覺得最好的方法就是鼓勵中小企業盡量使用雲端的服務因為雲端的服務就是雲端的公司它去譬如說我們用E-mail來講以前那個各個中小企業各自設立那個E-mailserver的時候E-mail伺服器的時候常常會受到駭客的攻擊\n\n09:07.156 --> 09:19.483\n但是現在國人大家都很習慣用像Gmail這種雲端的這種網路這個E-mail服務的時候這個資安就是會由Google或者是台灣的這些資訊業者他去負責\n\n09:22.325 --> 09:40.106\n所以這個就可以把這個資安防護的責任就是轉移到這個提供雲端服務或者是標準化產品的這些廠商那這也是契合我們現在速發部一個政策就是鼓勵台灣的軟體產業盡量去發展產品而不是做一個專案因為如果說做成標準化產品的話\n\n09:41.167 --> 10:06.145\n那就由這些標準化軟體產品的公司他負責把他的產品的資安做好如果他做不好的話他自然會喪失他的訂單所以他有他的Motivation他會想辦法把這個事情做好這也是我們另外講的一個我們的產業的策略就是我們希望利用民間資安產業的力量去守護台灣不管是政府或者民間企業的資安\n\n10:06.690 --> 10:34.660\n是我想现在是一个网络资讯一个发展非常迅速的一个时代所以有关治安的一个防护不管是政府机关或者是关键基础设施甚至民间企业还有这个农业真的每一个行业真的是都需要我们这个抒发部来给予大力的一个协助所以也希望部长在这方面要多加的一个就是担起这个重责大任是谢谢委员的勉励谢谢好\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.576,"end":3.042,"text":"謝謝主席 請主席邀請部長來 林部長請"},{"start":9.619,"end":34.689,"text":"委員早安林部長早我想今天很多委員都在關心這個央廣就是被駭客入侵那首頁被置換為這個五星旗的這個事件然後由這個事件所衍生出來的這個幕後這個真的是非常骯髒齷齪的一面讓我們覺得真的是引起社會的一個嘩然那另外就是這個"},{"start":36.99,"end":65.916,"text":"就是說這個事件就是爆發出這個某性那個某立委就是利用這個駭客當作義工去就是入侵政府的機關然後也入侵這個戶政的一個資料去肉搜就是對於在網路上發表對他不利言論的人然後收集他的個資之後來公開所以這兩個事件顯示出我們的這個政府的治安真的是非常的薄弱不只是破口"},{"start":67.196,"end":91.089,"text":"這麼輕易的這應該是人安不是資安其實不是技術上出了問題是人出了問題是人出了問題是那戶政的部分如果說中廣這個央廣央廣這個有可能是人安因為他是內部的員工可是戶政系統那個部長你認為這個也是人安嗎這不是外部入侵的嗎戶政系統的這個事情我們請那個資安署署長"},{"start":92.873,"end":110.141,"text":"是 謝謝委員 我想附贈系統當然是有一些資料因為當然他在房屋上面有一些小小的這些問題不過我想附贈部分這幾年因為已給這個他的原來執行中心在做處理所以在附近系統方面的這些治安其實已經加強非常多 以上"},{"start":111.175,"end":130.82,"text":"是 那我們也要就有這兩件事件去檢討然後要怎樣去加強這個防護嘛我不管說這個護證系統目前是你說移交給哪個單位在主管可是整個這個就是資訊安全的一個系統的一個防護我想我們書發布也是應該有責任是 沒錯可以協助跟指導"},{"start":131.4,"end":149.71,"text":"沒錯 如同我剛才在業務報告裡面有講我們是從事前事中事後的防護我們在資安署以及資安院我們都設置了各種機制就是盡量來把政府的資安把它加強把各種破洞把它堵住"},{"start":152.222,"end":170.096,"text":"剛剛當然就是說資安的話資安的破口可能就是系統軟體的一個加強剛剛部長提到說你把它定位為說這個是人安以陽廣的事情來講應該是人安人安的話這可能就更防不勝防了"},{"start":170.296,"end":192.567,"text":"是 沒錯 那這個因為央廣的主管機關是文化部但是因為央廣屬於國家關鍵基礎設施所以它的資安是由速發部來監管的所以我們接到那時候接到這個央廣的通報以後我們馬上派專家去進駐然後進駐以後我們就去查查了以後發覺說其實都是"},{"start":193.487,"end":217.165,"text":"应该我们的严判就是那个涉案的人员他本身就是这个网管的人员他本身就有最高权限的账户他就用这些账户去开很多的破口做了很多的事情如果说针对这一种明明他就是主管的这样子的一个权限的人还故意去做违法的一个事情那我们在这个刑责上是不是可以跟他加重"},{"start":217.826,"end":226.584,"text":"是 這個當然是說中長期來講的話我們可能要透過修法來加那個目前的行刑者是怎麼樣抱歉"},{"start":228.18,"end":248.386,"text":"是 謝謝委員 目前有關電腦的判罪是在刑法裡面的359條裡面有提到是說 假設這個取得相關的系統或是刪除或是一些更換的話 是換了電腦的這個相關的一些使用罪 那這個罪在刑法359條裡面有相關的規範"},{"start":250.318,"end":265.126,"text":"我想這個是非常嚴重而且非常重要的一部分因為資安的話我們可以透過軟體科技那是硬體的部分的一個加強可是人安的話你要怎樣去落實管理尤其面對我們現在每個機關因為就是資訊化的一個時代我們過去在委員會也討論到每一個機關有關資訊長資安長的一個設立的部分"},{"start":275.951,"end":294.779,"text":"那如果說未來這個有關資訊掌管資訊安全的人反而變成是一個內部犯罪的人那我覺得這個是一個非常嚴重的一個問題我們對資安人員都有特殊的查核確定是他的安全性那當然是這些事件可能還是出現了一些破口我們以後會改進"},{"start":295.607,"end":317.867,"text":"那就是說希望針對這個部分我們要再去思考怎樣去防範那接下來我要講的就是說對於就是內部的這個作為我們要加強之外我們對外部的一個駭客的一個罔工因為今天國安局的一個郵報告裡面他也有提到我國政府網路每日遭受到罔工就是高達280萬次"},{"start":319.949,"end":340.246,"text":"那這個供給它又是鎖定在我國的政府機關還有關鍵基礎設施以及產業供應鏈這幾個部分所以我們在面對這個中共它是發動國家層級的一個網供那這樣子的話我們有沒有能力去應付跟防護"},{"start":342.228,"end":361.865,"text":"在防護這方面我們的政策是希望說一方從兩方面來著手一方面是政府政府我們的資安署資安院我們要加強我們的能量讓政府有更大的能力去保護我們的政府還有我們的關鍵基礎設施另外我們也會第二個政策就是希望"},{"start":362.526,"end":384.745,"text":"在台湾有一个非常健康的资安产业事实上台湾的软体产业不是特别强但是台湾的资安软体产业是相当强的那包含委员所提到的产业供应链我们现在就是跟那个Semi还有那个台积电我们就推出了一个Semi 1187的标准就是希望说我们做那个资安的就是在整个产业链除了"},{"start":385.606,"end":414.539,"text":"保護好我們的台積電以外台積電的上游 下游我們都要把它保護好避免駭客利用台積電的上游或下游作為跳板去攻擊台積電這個是整個策略上或者是我們Semi-1187的概念而這本身其實也是一個很大的商機我們希望台灣的資安產業都能掌握到這個商機在保護好我們的產業供應鏈保護好我們的政府或民間公司之外他們也能賺錢"},{"start":417.238,"end":433.907,"text":"對於有關網路資訊安全非常重要所以針對屬於自動安全責任等級的A級包括護證系統的資料或者是廣電傳播設施這個部分我們希望速發部要去加強"},{"start":435.047,"end":461.878,"text":"那另外我剛有提到就是說面對境外的一個攻擊他不只是攻擊政府機關關鍵基礎設施甚至這個傳統就是傳產就是產業產業的這個區域這個領域他們也是他們的攻擊的一個目標那我們也看到不管是中小企業或者是甚至農業因為現在農業都會利用這個智慧農業就是透過手機的一個遠端遙控"},{"start":462.678,"end":479.694,"text":"去做一個生產的一個控制那我們也有發現就是有被駭客入侵然後造成這個榮有損失的這樣子一個案例所以我們就是說希望在這個部分我們抒發部也要就是多加的去"},{"start":480.575,"end":494.955,"text":"給予一些相關的一個協助那我也看到我們的應該是蔡署長日前在接受金週刊的時候專訪的時候也有提到就是說針對民間企業的一個資安政府會主動性在提升"},{"start":495.456,"end":512.824,"text":"那這個部分不曉得部長是不是部長可以了解一下可以回答一下就是說政府的主動性大概會做到什麼樣的程度那未來就是說在民間企業中小企業甚至農業我們速發部會扮演什麼樣的角色"},{"start":514.205,"end":529.664,"text":"其實這些中小企業的那個資安或者是農業的這個資安最大的問題是說通常在這個中小企業他並沒有專業的資訊人員他更不用講說專業的資安人員了所以他對自己的保護當然是沒辦法做到很好可能財力不夠或人才不足"},{"start":530.685,"end":546.516,"text":"對 我們覺得最好的方法就是鼓勵中小企業盡量使用雲端的服務因為雲端的服務就是雲端的公司它去 譬如說我們用E-mail來講以前那個各個中小企業各自設立那個E-mail server的時候E-mail伺服器的時候常常會受到駭客的攻擊"},{"start":547.156,"end":559.483,"text":"但是現在國人大家都很習慣用像Gmail這種雲端的這種網路這個E-mail服務的時候這個資安就是會由Google或者是台灣的這些資訊業者他去負責"},{"start":562.325,"end":580.106,"text":"所以這個就可以把這個資安防護的責任就是轉移到這個提供雲端服務或者是標準化產品的這些廠商那這也是契合我們現在速發部一個政策就是鼓勵台灣的軟體產業盡量去發展產品而不是做一個專案因為如果說做成標準化產品的話"},{"start":581.167,"end":606.145,"text":"那就由這些標準化軟體產品的公司他負責把他的產品的資安做好如果他做不好的話他自然會喪失他的訂單所以他有他的Motivation他會想辦法把這個事情做好這也是我們另外講的一個我們的產業的策略就是我們希望利用民間資安產業的力量去守護台灣不管是政府或者民間企業的資安"},{"start":606.69,"end":634.66,"text":"是 我想现在是一个网络资讯一个发展非常迅速的一个时代所以有关治安的一个防护不管是政府机关或者是关键基础设施甚至民间企业还有这个农业真的每一个行业真的是都需要我们这个抒发部来给予大力的一个协助所以也希望部长在这方面要多加的一个就是担起这个重责大任是 谢谢委员的勉励谢谢好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":347,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（10時7分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請部長。"],["主席：林部長請。"],["林部長宜敬：委員早安。"],["陳委員素月：林部長早。我想今天很多委員都在關心央廣被駭客入侵，首頁被置換為五星旗的這個事件，由這個事件所衍生出來的幕後真的是非常骯髒齷齪的一面，讓我們覺得真的是引起社會的譁然。另外，這個事件爆發出某立委利用駭客當作義工，入侵政府機關，也入侵戶政資料，去肉搜在網路上發表對他不利言論的人，蒐集他的個資之後予以公開。這兩個事件顯示出我們政府的資安真的是非常的薄弱，不只是破口，這麼輕易的……"],["林部長宜敬：這個應該是人安，不是資安，其實不是技術上出了問題，是人出了問題。"],["陳委員素月：是人出了問題？央廣這個有可能是人安，因為他是內部的員工，可是戶政系統呢？部長，你認為這個也是人安嗎？這不是外部入侵的嗎？"],["林部長宜敬：戶政系統的這個事情我們請資安署署長說明。"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員，我想戶政系統當然是有一些資料在防護上面有一些小小的問題，不過我想戶政部分這幾年因為移給它原來的資訊中心在做處理，所以在戶政系統方面的資安其實已經加強非常多，以上。"],["陳委員素月：是，我們也要就這兩件事件去檢討，並加強防護，我不管你說戶政系統目前移交給哪個單位在主管，可是整個資訊安全系統的防護，我想數發部應該也是有責任去協助跟指導。"],["林部長宜敬：是，沒錯。如同我剛才在業務報告裡面有講的，從事前、事中、事後的防護，我們在資安署及資安院都設置了各種機制，就是儘量來把政府的資安加強，把各種破洞堵住。"],["陳委員素月：好。當然資安的破口可能就是系統軟體的加強。剛剛部長提到，你把它定位為人安？"],["林部長宜敬：以央廣的事情來講，應該是人安。"],["陳委員素月：人安的話，可能就更防不勝防了吧！"],["林部長宜敬：是，沒錯。因為央廣的主管機關是文化部，但是因為央廣屬於國家關鍵基礎設施，所以它的資安是由數發部來監管的。所以那時候我們接到央廣的通報以後，我們馬上派專家去進駐。進駐以後，我們就去查。查了以後，我們的研判，應該就是那個涉案的人員本身就是網管的人員，他本身就有最高權限的帳戶，他就用這些帳戶去開很多的破口、做了很多的事情。"],["陳委員素月：如果針對這一種明明他就是主管的這樣子的權限的人，還故意去做違法的事情，那我們在刑責上是不是可以對他加重處罰？"],["林部長宜敬：中長期來講的話，我們可能要透過修法來……"],["陳委員素月：目前的刑責是怎麼樣？"],["蔡署長福隆：謝謝委員。目前有關於電腦的犯罪是在刑法第三百五十九條裡面有提到，假設取得相關的系統或是刪除、更換的話，就犯了電腦相關的一些使用罪，那這個罪在刑法第三百五十九條裡面有相關的規範。"],["陳委員素月：是，我想這個是非常嚴重，而且非常重要的一部分，因為資安我們可以透過軟體科技，那是硬體部分的加強；可是人安的話，你要怎樣去落實管理？尤其面對我們現在每個機關……因為就是資訊化的時代，我們過去在委員會也討論到每一個機關有關資訊長、資安長設立的部分，但如果未來掌管資訊安全的人反而變成是一個內部犯罪的人，那我覺得這個是一個非常嚴重的問題。"],["林部長宜敬：是。我們對資安人員都有特殊的查核，確定他的安全性。當然這些事件可能還是出現了一些破口，我們以後會改進。"],["陳委員素月：好。希望針對這個部分，我們要再去思考怎樣去防範。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員素月：接下來我要講的，就是除了內部的作為我們要加強之外，我們對外部駭客網攻的部分。因為今天國安局的業務報告裡面也有提到，我國政府網路每日遭受到網攻高達280萬次，這個攻擊又是鎖定在我國的政府機關，還有關鍵基礎設施，以及產業供應鏈這幾個部分。所以面對中共發動國家層級的網攻，我們有沒有能力去應付跟防護？可不可以請部長講一下？"],["林部長宜敬：在防護這方面，我們的政策是希望從兩方面來著手，一方面是政府，我們的資安署、資安院要加強能量，讓政府有更大的能力去保護我們的政府還有我們的關鍵基礎設施。另外我們也有第二個政策，就是希望在臺灣有一個非常健康的資安產業。事實上臺灣的軟體產業不是特別強，但是臺灣的資安軟體產業是相當強的。包含委員您所提到的產業供應鏈，我們現在就是跟SEMI和台積電推出了一個SEMI E187的標準，就是希望在整個產業鏈，除了保護好我們的台積電以外，台積電的上游、下游我們都要把它保護好，避免駭客利用台積電的上游或下游作為跳板去攻擊台積電。這是整個策略上或者是我們SEMI E187的概念，而這本身其實也是一個很大的商機，我們希望臺灣的資安產業都能掌握到這個商機，在保護好我們的產業供應鏈、保護好我們的政府或民間公司之外，他們也能賺錢。"],["陳委員素月：對於網路資訊安全，這點非常重要。所以針對屬於資通安全責任等級A級的，就是包括戶政系統的資料，或者是我們廣電的傳播設施，這個部分我們希望數發部要去加強。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員素月：另外我剛剛有提到，就是面對境外的攻擊，它不只是攻擊政府機關、關鍵基礎設施，甚至傳產，就是產業的這個領域也是他們攻擊的一個目標。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員素月：我們也看到不管是中小企業，甚至農業，因為現在農業也都會利用智慧農業，就是透過手機的遠端遙控去做生產的控制。"],["林部長宜敬：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員素月：我們也有發現被駭客入侵，造成農友損失的案例。所以我們希望在這個部分，數發部也要多加給予一些相關的協助。我也看到蔡署長日前在接受今周刊專訪的時候，有提到針對民間企業的資安，政府的主動性會再提升。這個部分不曉得部長是不是可以回答一下？就是說政府的主動性大概會做到什麼樣的程度？未來在民間企業、中小企業，甚至農業，我們數發部會扮演什麼樣的角色？會有什麼具體的計畫？"],["林部長宜敬：其實這些中小企業的資安，或者是農業的資安最大的問題是，通常在中小企業並沒有專業的資訊人員，更不用講說專業的資安人員，所以它對自己的保護當然是沒辦法做到很好……"],["陳委員素月：對，可能財力不夠或人才不足。"],["林部長宜敬：對。我們覺得最好的方法就是鼓勵中小企業儘量使用雲端的服務，因為雲端的服務就是雲端的公司去……譬如我們用email來講，以前各個中小企業各自設立email server，也就是email伺服器的時候，常常會受到駭客的攻擊。但是現在國人都很習慣用像Gmail這種雲端的網路email服務的時候，這個資安就是會由Google或者是臺灣的資訊業者去負責，所以就可以把資安防護的責任轉移到提供雲端服務或者是標準化產品的廠商。這也是契合我們現在數發部的一個政策，就是鼓勵臺灣的軟體產業儘量去發展產品，而不是做一個專案，因為如果做成標準化產品的話，那就由做這些標準化軟體產品的公司負責把它的產品資安做好。如果它做不好的話，它自然會喪失它的訂單，所以它有它的motivation，它會想辦法把這個事情做好。這也是我們另外講的一個產業的策略，就是我們希望利用民間資安產業的力量去守護臺灣，不管是政府或者民間企業的資安。"],["陳委員素月：是。我想現在是一個網路資訊發展非常迅速的時代，所以有關資安的防護，不管是政府機關或者是關鍵基礎設施，甚至民間企業，還有農業，真的每一個行業都需要數發部來給予大力的協助，所以也希望部長要多擔起這個重責大任。"],["林部長宜敬：是，謝謝委員的勉勵。"],["陳委員素月：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請徐富癸委員質詢。我們剛剛已經有宣告10點半左右休息，所以我們到魯明哲委員質詢完畢之後休息10分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-3","speakers":["洪孟楷","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳素月","徐富癸","魯明哲","何欣純","林俊憲","葛如鈞","李昆澤","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","賴士葆","郭國文","羅美玲","黃健豪","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","游顥","賴惠員","陳冠廷","林國成"],"page_start":239,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長林宜敬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00005"}}}