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{\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 68.141, \"end\": 68.322, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 68.322, \"end\": 68.522, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 68.522, \"end\": 69.042, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 69.042, \"end\": 69.162, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 69.162, \"end\": 69.382, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 69.382, \"end\": 69.662, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"改\", \"start\": 69.662, \"end\": 70.182, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"善\", \"start\": 70.182, \"end\": 70.202, \"score\": 0.817}]}, {\"start\": 71.402, \"end\": 91.973, \"text\": \"對於長榮根本沒有效 所以部長對這種違法的一個常客的大企業罰錢不是終點 勞動部到底有沒有具體的一個讓限期改善真正的能夠落實跟委員說明 第一個我想我們會堅守這個執法的立場\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 71.402, \"end\": 72.463, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 72.463, 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93.581, \"end\": 115.936, \"text\": \"那的確我們現在看到有一些在地方的勞檢機構他的裁罰的金額太低那我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來做討論那是狀況包括其實以長榮的事業規模跟這個他整個公司的營運的狀況其實如果是連續的他如果是連續的這樣子的常態性的狀況的話當然這個金額\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 93.581, \"end\": 94.362, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 94.362, \"end\": 94.742, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 94.742, \"end\": 94.882, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 94.882, \"end\": 95.042, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 95.042, \"end\": 95.282, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 95.282, \"end\": 95.883, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 95.883, \"end\": 96.003, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 96.003, \"end\": 96.063, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 96.063, \"end\": 96.263, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 96.263, \"end\": 96.503, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 96.503, \"end\": 96.643, 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\"end\": 523.56, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"們\"}]}, {\"start\": 525.141, \"end\": 550.0, \"text\": \"現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念其實恐怕核心的概念都是必須把合理調整做好把合理調整做好才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任跟穩定的這個狀況所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作給做好或這些指標做好的話我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整給做到更踏實\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 525.141, \"end\": 525.362, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 525.362, \"end\": 525.502, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 525.502, \"end\": 525.702, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 525.702, \"end\": 525.802, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 525.802, \"end\": 526.142, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 526.142, \"end\": 528.044, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"視\"}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 528.044, \"end\": 528.184, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 528.184, \"end\": 528.484, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 528.484, \"end\": 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816.006, \"end\": 816.127, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"醒\", \"start\": 816.127, \"end\": 816.307, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"青\", \"start\": 816.307, \"end\": 816.467, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 816.467, \"end\": 816.647, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 816.647, \"end\": 816.908, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 816.908, \"end\": 817.068, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 817.068, \"end\": 817.148, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 817.148, \"end\": 817.228, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 817.228, \"end\": 817.349, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 817.349, \"end\": 817.489, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 817.489, \"end\": 817.589, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 817.589, \"end\": 817.609, \"score\": 0.447}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 817.609, \"end\": 817.669, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 817.669, \"end\": 817.729, \"score\": 0.546}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 817.729, \"end\": 818.03, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 818.03, \"end\": 818.17, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 818.17, \"end\": 818.29, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 818.29, \"end\": 818.49, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 818.49, \"end\": 818.791, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 818.791, \"end\": 819.251, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 819.251, \"end\": 819.372, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 819.372, \"end\": 819.632, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 819.632, \"end\": 819.652, \"score\": 0.009}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,149 --> 00:00:02,571\n主席麻煩部長請部長林委員早\n\n2\n00:00:25,394 --> 00:00:39,691\n部長早我想個案還在釐清想問一個大家都在問的問題為什麼長榮罰不怕從2023年以來因為超時工作就被罰了7次共295萬還有性評違規外戰性騷擾等爭議是不是因為罰款太低對這些大企業\n\n3\n00:00:45,217 --> 00:01:10,202\n這個罰款只是營運成本之一所以更嚴重的是有空務員還跟我講說公司內規根本把法規當塑膠的請假扣考金身兼備卡學長姐的壓迫文化還有導致員工身體不舒服不敢請假權益受損也不敢申訴這是不是制度性的風險勞基法的第79條跟80條的加重處罰跟限期改善\n\n4\n00:01:11,402 --> 00:01:31,973\n對於長榮根本沒有效所以部長對這種違法的一個常客的大企業罰錢不是終點勞動部到底有沒有具體的一個讓限期改善真正的能夠落實跟委員說明第一個我想我們會堅守這個執法的立場\n\n5\n00:01:33,581 --> 00:01:55,936\n那的確我們現在看到有一些在地方的勞檢機構他的裁罰的金額太低那我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來做討論那是狀況包括其實以長榮的事業規模跟這個他整個公司的營運的狀況其實如果是連續的他如果是連續的這樣子的常態性的狀況的話當然這個金額\n\n6\n00:02:00,526 --> 00:02:20,507\n不應該是用這樣的方式在進行那第二個是我們會來加強對於不管尤其是長榮那他的這個專案的勞檢這部分我們會來那第三個其實我們也會考慮其實對像這樣子的慣犯那\n\n7\n00:02:22,408 --> 00:02:49,873\n其實有時候一些適度的資訊的揭露專案式的資訊的揭露其實也會對他有一定的嚇阻的效果因為以長榮或這樣的航空業其實他們也很在意自己的企業形象可是大家卻看到這樣的企業形象下面卻是在勞動條件上面有這樣子的表現我覺得這可能跟社會上面大家對他的期待是有很大的落差\n\n8\n00:02:50,273 --> 00:03:05,199\n我覺得還是要髮制了你說講到他在不在意企業形象可是你看資金還是用人命來買單他似乎好像也沒有特別去對這件事情有些什麼樣的一個做更好的一個機制\n\n9\n00:03:05,979 --> 00:03:32,868\n那在部長今天原本要審的職安法的職場霸凌專章但我必須說就是長榮空服員來跟我檢舉的時候都很害怕因為在權力不對等下他們怕被報復怕被標籤化然後怕丟工作只能選擇噤聲六年前長榮罷工大家都記得但罷工後企業用法律戰一拖就是六年讓勞工吃盡苦頭\n\n10\n00:03:35,149 --> 00:03:59,294\n就算最後申訴很多人早已因為經濟的壓力退出工會甚至離職學界說這就是工會的脆弱性面對企業的訴訟權根本就是雞蛋撞石頭部長我要請教是勞動部到底能不能透過修法讓工會法更積極的能夠平衡企業的訴訟力量保障我們的勞工的團結權\n\n11\n00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:28,040\n報告委員我們工會法針對不當容的行為都有相當明文的規定那長榮的工會也都來跟我們申請那我們裁決委員會也都有判斷構成不當容的行為但是往往在訴訟的時候確實是法院的看法有時候不盡相同不過我們也會來繼續來努力看怎麼再來精進我們這個裁決或許會再爭取更多的法院對我們的支持\n\n12\n00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:52,009\n我希望勞動部可以多花一些心力為什麼因為像上禮拜我們講職災的時候也是都是要勞工自己去面對不管事實上他因為他的勞權受損或者是他職災的時候都是要自己去面對訴訟一拖就是非常的好時間上非常的長那部長接下來我想請教一個那個障礙青年拖一定要問的問題\n\n13\n00:04:53,469 --> 00:05:04,140\n兩個月前你在公開場合說過一句話台灣身心障礙者的勞動參與率只有21.9%還有很大的進步空間那現在兩個月都過去了部長有沒有新的對策\n\n14\n00:05:05,997 --> 00:05:32,192\n我想關於剛才林委員講的部分應該是在那個障礙者的合理調整的一個重要的研討會的現場那我來做這樣的表達那我想我們對於障礙者的這個合理調因為合理調整其實是障礙者能夠進入到一個職場那甚至能夠去盡量的去做就業的穩定其實一個很重要的措施所以我們現在其實非常非常重視\n\n15\n00:05:33,112 --> 00:05:56,503\n障礙者的合理調整我們現在也跟很多的障礙者社群是直接的來合作所以現在其實應該是在一個宣導跟宣講全台灣宣導跟宣講的這個階段可是我說我們跟障礙者社群的合作我們也希望接下來能夠創造更多的案例就像委員的投影片上對我們來講很清楚合理調整並不是一個鼓勵性的\n\n16\n00:05:57,223 --> 00:06:07,968\n合理調整是雇主有義務的提供因為這在蠻多的這個法院的判決其實也看到所以這是有義務的提供我想我們把這個立場是說得很清楚了\n\n17\n00:06:08,430 --> 00:06:37,035\n那勞動部掌握的資料大家也要請教是說關於身障者的勞動參與率就業率平均薪資跟穩定就業時間你們有沒有依照年齡學歷障別去做更多的更細緻的交叉分析為什麼要這樣問因為要從21.9%提高上去就要靠這些資料才能夠對症下藥我常常講數據會說話才能讓你了解到問題\n\n18\n00:06:38,115 --> 00:07:01,632\n可是我現在看到資料幾乎只有用性別交叉分析沒有反映出更細緻的需求是不是有把只要特教鑑定證明但是沒有拿到身障手冊這群人的數據納入分析部長這種針對基礎資料的掌握跟分析你覺得現在的分析是否足夠能夠跟障礙就業這麼多元的議題來做對話\n\n19\n00:07:06,198 --> 00:07:29,333\n謝謝委員的提醒因為委員其實很關心那在委員關心之後我也特別去了解確實過去我們相關的這個就業狀況的調查其實比較只有針對性別的部分那我們願意來增加一些其他的變相包括行業職業其他部分這部分我想我請我們署裡面來跟委員辦公室來請教一下\n\n20\n00:07:29,993 --> 00:07:53,789\n接下来我要谈的是我们的政策工具的问题特别是定额禁用的制度去年平均下来主要禁用的单位比例事实上是91.63%非常高上面上曾经很好看可是要问的是即便有聘用这些工作内容我们真的了解吗政府的统计数据来看障碍者就业的主要集中在制造业多半是基础\n\n21\n00:07:54,830 --> 00:08:24,030\n基层的技术劳工跟服务销售的工作很多障碍青年跟我说这些职业样态根本就没有对应到他们障碍者多元的需求那也严重限制了他们职业发展的可能性因为都做非常低底层的工作是不是很多工作还是集中在甚至就是文师处理行政术物这些低职能晋升空间很有限的职位那部长这些比例你有掌握吗你怎么去回应他讲的\n\n22\n00:08:25,010 --> 00:08:43,560\n根本說明因為確實定額禁用是過去在生權法的時候其實一個蠻重要的一步可是這個部分比較能看得出是一個量的狀況可是就就業的值的部分比方說大家現在關心他就業的穩定或者是他的適配的狀況等等等這是為什麼我們\n\n23\n00:08:45,141 --> 00:09:10,000\n現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念其實恐怕核心的概念都是必須把合理調整做好把合理調整做好才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任跟穩定的這個狀況所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作給做好或這些指標做好的話我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整給做到更踏實\n\n24\n00:09:11,221 --> 00:09:35,261\n我们也希望你针对不同账别的程度转型后的一些适配度跟留任率跟留任时间跟工作满意度进行统整调查再麻烦劳动部这边那接下来部长我还有一件事情是障碍朋友一直要我来这边做反应的是他们质疑有些大企业会打着创新合作的名义规避禁用责任怎么做呢他们就把定额禁用的\n\n25\n00:09:35,721 --> 00:10:02,399\n那个名额外包给各大专院校资源中心让身上学生用校园活动的助理的名义短期工作名义上人数都没有问题实际上是没有投入长期的培训也没有承担雇主要的责任所以学生也根本都没有进到那个企业就在学校里边部长这种状况你们有没有掌握如果企业这样子的专漏洞劳动部到底要怎么监督要不要考虑修法例如规定\n\n26\n00:10:03,341 --> 00:10:08,379\n患病必須附帶培訓計畫或是限制登錄方式來防止濫用\n\n27\n00:10:13,950 --> 00:10:32,980\n目前針對身權法規定的定額禁用那有些企業在身障禁用的部分會與大專校院來合作禁用身心障礙的學生有供讀進行供讀的工作那因為供讀的工作也都需要符合相關的勞動法規的規範\n\n28\n00:10:35,512 --> 00:11:01,402\n可是我收到好幾個案子都是不是這樣有的學生受權益受到影響那老師呢也是背負了很大的壓力所以我覺得這部分是不是因為現在時間關係是不是提供相關的你們到底掌握的狀況到底是什麼提供給我們辦公室來讓我們了解否則的話我們目前看到的狀況跟你們所去做的那個狀況不太一樣為什麼\n\n29\n00:11:02,242 --> 00:11:24,669\n因為政府現在對雇主的管理真的是太像茶水錶你只看有沒有禁用名冊對不對卻沒有後續的支持所以張艾青您常跟我講說他們現在學校遇到的問題甚至他們出了職場當中遇到的問題都是跟你們在我們看到你的報告時差不太一樣那就麻煩再提供給我這是為什麼我一直覺得\n\n30\n00:11:25,569 --> 00:11:43,237\n不應該只是最只著重在定額禁用的數的數字然後因為只只是著重在定額禁用的這個總體的數字的時候其實可能下面會有各種的樣態他他不一定都符合我們原本的期待或政策期待所以我覺得這部分我們會來做一些檢視是\n\n31\n00:11:44,657 --> 00:12:02,499\n最后一个是部长我很快请教一个问题上回会期我们就讨论到未成年就业我觉得真的劳动部很用心也开始在做多元的方案非常感谢你们的努力可是唯一没有被处理的就是未成年就业现况跟劳动权益的调查因为从少数有劳保的资料来看\n\n32\n00:12:04,061 --> 00:12:18,232\n15歲在工地營建製造業的比例竟然比16、17歲還要高部長你認為這樣的數字代表什麼這群孩子年紀非常小技能不足可是他們只能做的是被挑剩下的工作\n\n33\n00:12:18,812 --> 00:12:41,121\n最常还常为了领先去高风险没有保障的一个职场所以这样的困境如果没有制度协助的话会一路拖到青年阶段所以部长要更深入的掌握到数据背后的意义对政策对准来做需求这项调查是不是赶快能够启动让民间而且邀请民间跟民间团体一起来合作进行\n\n34\n00:12:43,673 --> 00:13:08,644\n這個未成年的少年不管他可能一般家講未未少年未就學未就業的少年我們的確看到一個現象他其實他常常會對現金就是是眼前現金他有比較大的需求所以他有可能會因為這個原因去做一些高風險的職業我想這可能我們會放到整體對未未少年的\n\n35\n00:13:09,184 --> 00:13:24,269\n整個就業的輔導我覺得特別來關注這件事情可能這不是調查調查我們可以做可以讓他更完備就可以做可是的確我們怎麼樣避免他因為需要短期的這個經費需要生活的費用然後\n\n36\n00:13:25,029 --> 00:13:39,652\n去做這些高風險的狀況或甚至以身試法我覺得可能放我們整體框架我們會請我們法案署這邊來特別留意這個事情因為對於我覺得一直一直我在提醒青少年們都非常用心可不可以在這一部分再加強一下好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n149\t2571\t主席麻煩部長請部長林委員早\n25394\t39691\t部長早我想個案還在釐清想問一個大家都在問的問題為什麼長榮罰不怕從2023年以來因為超時工作就被罰了7次共295萬還有性評違規外戰性騷擾等爭議是不是因為罰款太低對這些大企業\n45217\t70202\t這個罰款只是營運成本之一所以更嚴重的是有空務員還跟我講說公司內規根本把法規當塑膠的請假扣考金身兼備卡學長姐的壓迫文化還有導致員工身體不舒服不敢請假權益受損也不敢申訴這是不是制度性的風險勞基法的第79條跟80條的加重處罰跟限期改善\n71402\t91973\t對於長榮根本沒有效 所以部長對這種違法的一個常客的大企業罰錢不是終點 勞動部到底有沒有具體的一個讓限期改善真正的能夠落實跟委員說明 第一個我想我們會堅守這個執法的立場\n93581\t115936\t那的確我們現在看到有一些在地方的勞檢機構他的裁罰的金額太低那我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來做討論那是狀況包括其實以長榮的事業規模跟這個他整個公司的營運的狀況其實如果是連續的他如果是連續的這樣子的常態性的狀況的話當然這個金額\n120526\t140507\t不應該是用這樣的方式在進行那第二個是我們會來加強對於不管尤其是長榮那他的這個專案的勞檢這部分我們會來那第三個其實我們也會考慮其實對像這樣子的慣犯那\n142408\t169873\t其實有時候一些適度的資訊的揭露專案式的資訊的揭露其實也會對他有一定的嚇阻的效果因為以長榮或這樣的航空業其實他們也很在意自己的企業形象可是大家卻看到這樣的企業形象下面卻是在勞動條件上面有這樣子的表現我覺得這可能跟社會上面大家對他的期待是有很大的落差\n170273\t185199\t我覺得還是要髮制了你說講到他在不在意企業形象可是你看資金還是用人命來買單他似乎好像也沒有特別去對這件事情有些什麼樣的一個做更好的一個機制\n185979\t212868\t那在部長今天原本要審的職安法的職場霸凌專章但我必須說就是長榮空服員來跟我檢舉的時候都很害怕因為在權力不對等下他們怕被報復怕被標籤化然後怕丟工作只能選擇噤聲六年前長榮罷工大家都記得但罷工後企業用法律戰一拖就是六年讓勞工吃盡苦頭\n215149\t239294\t就算最後申訴很多人早已因為經濟的壓力退出工會甚至離職學界說這就是工會的脆弱性面對企業的訴訟權根本就是雞蛋撞石頭部長我要請教是勞動部到底能不能透過修法讓工會法更積極的能夠平衡企業的訴訟力量保障我們的勞工的團結權\n243120\t268040\t報告委員 我們工會法針對不當容的行為都有相當明文的規定那長榮的工會也都來跟我們申請那我們裁決委員會也都有判斷構成不當容的行為但是往往在訴訟的時候確實是法院的看法有時候不盡相同不過我們也會來繼續來努力看怎麼再來精進我們這個裁決或許會再爭取更多的法院對我們的支持\n268760\t292009\t我希望勞動部可以多花一些心力為什麼因為像上禮拜我們講職災的時候也是都是要勞工自己去面對不管事實上他因為他的勞權受損或者是他職災的時候都是要自己去面對訴訟一拖就是非常的好時間上非常的長那部長接下來我想請教一個那個障礙青年拖一定要問的問題\n293469\t304140\t兩個月前你在公開場合說過一句話台灣身心障礙者的勞動參與率只有21.9%還有很大的進步空間那現在兩個月都過去了部長有沒有新的對策\n305997\t332192\t我想關於剛才林委員講的部分應該是在那個障礙者的合理調整的一個重要的研討會的現場那我來做這樣的表達那我想我們對於障礙者的這個合理調因為合理調整其實是障礙者能夠進入到一個職場那甚至能夠去盡量的去做就業的穩定其實一個很重要的措施所以我們現在其實非常非常重視\n333112\t356503\t障礙者的合理調整我們現在也跟很多的障礙者社群是直接的來合作所以現在其實應該是在一個宣導跟宣講全台灣宣導跟宣講的這個階段可是我說我們跟障礙者社群的合作我們也希望接下來能夠創造更多的案例就像委員的投影片上對我們來講很清楚合理調整並不是一個鼓勵性的\n357223\t367968\t合理調整是雇主有義務的提供因為這在蠻多的這個法院的判決其實也看到所以這是有義務的提供我想我們把這個立場是說得很清楚了\n368430\t397035\t那勞動部掌握的資料大家也要請教是說關於身障者的勞動參與率就業率平均薪資跟穩定就業時間你們有沒有依照年齡學歷障別去做更多的更細緻的交叉分析為什麼要這樣問因為要從21.9%提高上去就要靠這些資料才能夠對症下藥我常常講數據會說話才能讓你了解到問題\n398115\t421632\t可是我現在看到資料幾乎只有用性別交叉分析沒有反映出更細緻的需求是不是有把只要特教鑑定證明但是沒有拿到身障手冊這群人的數據納入分析部長這種針對基礎資料的掌握跟分析你覺得現在的分析是否足夠能夠跟障礙就業這麼多元的議題來做對話\n426198\t449333\t謝謝委員的提醒 因為委員其實很關心那在委員關心之後 我也特別去了解確實過去我們相關的這個就業狀況的調查其實比較只有針對性別的部分那我們願意來增加一些其他的變相 包括行業職業其他部分 這部分我想我請我們署裡面來跟委員辦公室來請教一下\n449993\t473789\t接下来我要谈的是我们的政策工具的问题特别是定额禁用的制度去年平均下来主要禁用的单位比例事实上是91.63%非常高上面上曾经很好看可是要问的是即便有聘用这些工作内容我们真的了解吗政府的统计数据来看障碍者就业的主要集中在制造业多半是基础\n474830\t504030\t基层的技术劳工跟服务销售的工作很多障碍青年跟我说这些职业样态根本就没有对应到他们障碍者多元的需求那也严重限制了他们职业发展的可能性因为都做非常低底层的工作是不是很多工作还是集中在甚至就是文师处理行政术物这些低职能晋升空间很有限的职位那部长这些比例你有掌握吗你怎么去回应他讲的\n505010\t523560\t根本說明因為確實定額禁用是過去在生權法的時候其實一個蠻重要的一步可是這個部分比較能看得出是一個量的狀況可是就就業的值的部分比方說大家現在關心他就業的穩定或者是他的適配的狀況等等等這是為什麼我們\n525141\t550000\t現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念其實恐怕核心的概念都是必須把合理調整做好把合理調整做好才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任跟穩定的這個狀況所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作給做好或這些指標做好的話我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整給做到更踏實\n551221\t575261\t我们也希望你针对不同账别的程度转型后的一些适配度跟留任率跟留任时间跟工作满意度进行统整调查再麻烦劳动部这边那接下来部长我还有一件事情是障碍朋友一直要我来这边做反应的是他们质疑有些大企业会打着创新合作的名义规避禁用责任怎么做呢他们就把定额禁用的\n575721\t602399\t那个名额外包给各大专院校资源中心让身上学生用校园活动的助理的名义短期工作名义上人数都没有问题实际上是没有投入长期的培训也没有承担雇主要的责任所以学生也根本都没有进到那个企业就在学校里边部长这种状况你们有没有掌握如果企业这样子的专漏洞劳动部到底要怎么监督要不要考虑修法例如规定\n603341\t608379\t患病必須附帶培訓計畫或是限制登錄方式來防止濫用\n613950\t632980\t目前針對身權法規定的定額禁用那有些企業在身障禁用的部分會與大專校院來合作禁用身心障礙的學生有供讀進行供讀的工作那因為供讀的工作也都需要符合相關的勞動法規的規範\n635512\t661402\t可是我收到好幾個案子都是不是這樣有的學生受權益受到影響那老師呢也是背負了很大的壓力所以我覺得這部分是不是因為現在時間關係是不是提供相關的你們到底掌握的狀況到底是什麼提供給我們辦公室來讓我們了解否則的話我們目前看到的狀況跟你們所去做的那個狀況不太一樣為什麼\n662242\t684669\t因為政府現在對雇主的管理真的是太像茶水錶你只看有沒有禁用 名冊對不對卻沒有後續的支持所以張艾青您常跟我講說他們現在學校遇到的問題甚至他們出了職場當中遇到的問題都是跟你們在我們看到你的報告時差不太一樣那就麻煩再提供給我這是為什麼我一直覺得\n685569\t703237\t不應該只是最只著重在定額禁用的數的數字然後因為只只是著重在定額禁用的這個總體的數字的時候其實可能下面會有各種的樣態他他不一定都符合我們原本的期待或政策期待所以我覺得這部分我們會來做一些檢視是\n704657\t722499\t最后一个是部长我很快请教一个问题上回会期我们就讨论到未成年就业我觉得真的劳动部很用心也开始在做多元的方案非常感谢你们的努力可是唯一没有被处理的就是未成年就业现况跟劳动权益的调查因为从少数有劳保的资料来看\n724061\t738232\t15歲在工地營建製造業的比例竟然比16、17歲還要高部長你認為這樣的數字代表什麼這群孩子年紀非常小 技能不足可是他們只能做的是被挑剩下的工作\n738812\t761121\t最常还常为了领先去高风险没有保障的一个职场所以这样的困境如果没有制度协助的话会一路拖到青年阶段所以部长要更深入的掌握到数据背后的意义对政策对准来做需求这项调查是不是赶快能够启动让民间而且邀请民间跟民间团体一起来合作进行\n763673\t788644\t這個未成年的少年不管他可能一般家講未未少年未就學未就業的少年我們的確看到一個現象他其實他常常會對現金就是是眼前現金他有比較大的需求所以他有可能會因為這個原因去做一些高風險的職業我想這可能我們會放到整體對未未少年的\n789184\t804269\t整個就業的輔導我覺得特別來關注這件事情可能這不是調查調查我們可以做可以讓他更完備就可以做可是的確我們怎麼樣避免他因為需要短期的這個經費需要生活的費用然後\n805029\t819652\t去做這些高風險的狀況或甚至以身試法我覺得可能放我們整體框架我們會請我們法案署這邊來特別留意這個事情因為對於我覺得一直一直我在提醒青少年們都非常用心可不可以在這一部分再加強一下好謝謝\n","txt":"主席麻煩部長請部長林委員早\n部長早我想個案還在釐清想問一個大家都在問的問題為什麼長榮罰不怕從2023年以來因為超時工作就被罰了7次共295萬還有性評違規外戰性騷擾等爭議是不是因為罰款太低對這些大企業\n這個罰款只是營運成本之一所以更嚴重的是有空務員還跟我講說公司內規根本把法規當塑膠的請假扣考金身兼備卡學長姐的壓迫文化還有導致員工身體不舒服不敢請假權益受損也不敢申訴這是不是制度性的風險勞基法的第79條跟80條的加重處罰跟限期改善\n對於長榮根本沒有效 所以部長對這種違法的一個常客的大企業罰錢不是終點 勞動部到底有沒有具體的一個讓限期改善真正的能夠落實跟委員說明 第一個我想我們會堅守這個執法的立場\n那的確我們現在看到有一些在地方的勞檢機構他的裁罰的金額太低那我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來做討論那是狀況包括其實以長榮的事業規模跟這個他整個公司的營運的狀況其實如果是連續的他如果是連續的這樣子的常態性的狀況的話當然這個金額\n不應該是用這樣的方式在進行那第二個是我們會來加強對於不管尤其是長榮那他的這個專案的勞檢這部分我們會來那第三個其實我們也會考慮其實對像這樣子的慣犯那\n其實有時候一些適度的資訊的揭露專案式的資訊的揭露其實也會對他有一定的嚇阻的效果因為以長榮或這樣的航空業其實他們也很在意自己的企業形象可是大家卻看到這樣的企業形象下面卻是在勞動條件上面有這樣子的表現我覺得這可能跟社會上面大家對他的期待是有很大的落差\n我覺得還是要髮制了你說講到他在不在意企業形象可是你看資金還是用人命來買單他似乎好像也沒有特別去對這件事情有些什麼樣的一個做更好的一個機制\n那在部長今天原本要審的職安法的職場霸凌專章但我必須說就是長榮空服員來跟我檢舉的時候都很害怕因為在權力不對等下他們怕被報復怕被標籤化然後怕丟工作只能選擇噤聲六年前長榮罷工大家都記得但罷工後企業用法律戰一拖就是六年讓勞工吃盡苦頭\n就算最後申訴很多人早已因為經濟的壓力退出工會甚至離職學界說這就是工會的脆弱性面對企業的訴訟權根本就是雞蛋撞石頭部長我要請教是勞動部到底能不能透過修法讓工會法更積極的能夠平衡企業的訴訟力量保障我們的勞工的團結權\n報告委員 我們工會法針對不當容的行為都有相當明文的規定那長榮的工會也都來跟我們申請那我們裁決委員會也都有判斷構成不當容的行為但是往往在訴訟的時候確實是法院的看法有時候不盡相同不過我們也會來繼續來努力看怎麼再來精進我們這個裁決或許會再爭取更多的法院對我們的支持\n我希望勞動部可以多花一些心力為什麼因為像上禮拜我們講職災的時候也是都是要勞工自己去面對不管事實上他因為他的勞權受損或者是他職災的時候都是要自己去面對訴訟一拖就是非常的好時間上非常的長那部長接下來我想請教一個那個障礙青年拖一定要問的問題\n兩個月前你在公開場合說過一句話台灣身心障礙者的勞動參與率只有21.9%還有很大的進步空間那現在兩個月都過去了部長有沒有新的對策\n我想關於剛才林委員講的部分應該是在那個障礙者的合理調整的一個重要的研討會的現場那我來做這樣的表達那我想我們對於障礙者的這個合理調因為合理調整其實是障礙者能夠進入到一個職場那甚至能夠去盡量的去做就業的穩定其實一個很重要的措施所以我們現在其實非常非常重視\n障礙者的合理調整我們現在也跟很多的障礙者社群是直接的來合作所以現在其實應該是在一個宣導跟宣講全台灣宣導跟宣講的這個階段可是我說我們跟障礙者社群的合作我們也希望接下來能夠創造更多的案例就像委員的投影片上對我們來講很清楚合理調整並不是一個鼓勵性的\n合理調整是雇主有義務的提供因為這在蠻多的這個法院的判決其實也看到所以這是有義務的提供我想我們把這個立場是說得很清楚了\n那勞動部掌握的資料大家也要請教是說關於身障者的勞動參與率就業率平均薪資跟穩定就業時間你們有沒有依照年齡學歷障別去做更多的更細緻的交叉分析為什麼要這樣問因為要從21.9%提高上去就要靠這些資料才能夠對症下藥我常常講數據會說話才能讓你了解到問題\n可是我現在看到資料幾乎只有用性別交叉分析沒有反映出更細緻的需求是不是有把只要特教鑑定證明但是沒有拿到身障手冊這群人的數據納入分析部長這種針對基礎資料的掌握跟分析你覺得現在的分析是否足夠能夠跟障礙就業這麼多元的議題來做對話\n謝謝委員的提醒 因為委員其實很關心那在委員關心之後 我也特別去了解確實過去我們相關的這個就業狀況的調查其實比較只有針對性別的部分那我們願意來增加一些其他的變相 包括行業職業其他部分 這部分我想我請我們署裡面來跟委員辦公室來請教一下\n接下来我要谈的是我们的政策工具的问题特别是定额禁用的制度去年平均下来主要禁用的单位比例事实上是91.63%非常高上面上曾经很好看可是要问的是即便有聘用这些工作内容我们真的了解吗政府的统计数据来看障碍者就业的主要集中在制造业多半是基础\n基层的技术劳工跟服务销售的工作很多障碍青年跟我说这些职业样态根本就没有对应到他们障碍者多元的需求那也严重限制了他们职业发展的可能性因为都做非常低底层的工作是不是很多工作还是集中在甚至就是文师处理行政术物这些低职能晋升空间很有限的职位那部长这些比例你有掌握吗你怎么去回应他讲的\n根本說明因為確實定額禁用是過去在生權法的時候其實一個蠻重要的一步可是這個部分比較能看得出是一個量的狀況可是就就業的值的部分比方說大家現在關心他就業的穩定或者是他的適配的狀況等等等這是為什麼我們\n現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念其實恐怕核心的概念都是必須把合理調整做好把合理調整做好才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任跟穩定的這個狀況所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作給做好或這些指標做好的話我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整給做到更踏實\n我们也希望你针对不同账别的程度转型后的一些适配度跟留任率跟留任时间跟工作满意度进行统整调查再麻烦劳动部这边那接下来部长我还有一件事情是障碍朋友一直要我来这边做反应的是他们质疑有些大企业会打着创新合作的名义规避禁用责任怎么做呢他们就把定额禁用的\n那个名额外包给各大专院校资源中心让身上学生用校园活动的助理的名义短期工作名义上人数都没有问题实际上是没有投入长期的培训也没有承担雇主要的责任所以学生也根本都没有进到那个企业就在学校里边部长这种状况你们有没有掌握如果企业这样子的专漏洞劳动部到底要怎么监督要不要考虑修法例如规定\n患病必須附帶培訓計畫或是限制登錄方式來防止濫用\n目前針對身權法規定的定額禁用那有些企業在身障禁用的部分會與大專校院來合作禁用身心障礙的學生有供讀進行供讀的工作那因為供讀的工作也都需要符合相關的勞動法規的規範\n可是我收到好幾個案子都是不是這樣有的學生受權益受到影響那老師呢也是背負了很大的壓力所以我覺得這部分是不是因為現在時間關係是不是提供相關的你們到底掌握的狀況到底是什麼提供給我們辦公室來讓我們了解否則的話我們目前看到的狀況跟你們所去做的那個狀況不太一樣為什麼\n因為政府現在對雇主的管理真的是太像茶水錶你只看有沒有禁用 名冊對不對卻沒有後續的支持所以張艾青您常跟我講說他們現在學校遇到的問題甚至他們出了職場當中遇到的問題都是跟你們在我們看到你的報告時差不太一樣那就麻煩再提供給我這是為什麼我一直覺得\n不應該只是最只著重在定額禁用的數的數字然後因為只只是著重在定額禁用的這個總體的數字的時候其實可能下面會有各種的樣態他他不一定都符合我們原本的期待或政策期待所以我覺得這部分我們會來做一些檢視是\n最后一个是部长我很快请教一个问题上回会期我们就讨论到未成年就业我觉得真的劳动部很用心也开始在做多元的方案非常感谢你们的努力可是唯一没有被处理的就是未成年就业现况跟劳动权益的调查因为从少数有劳保的资料来看\n15歲在工地營建製造業的比例竟然比16、17歲還要高部長你認為這樣的數字代表什麼這群孩子年紀非常小 技能不足可是他們只能做的是被挑剩下的工作\n最常还常为了领先去高风险没有保障的一个职场所以这样的困境如果没有制度协助的话会一路拖到青年阶段所以部长要更深入的掌握到数据背后的意义对政策对准来做需求这项调查是不是赶快能够启动让民间而且邀请民间跟民间团体一起来合作进行\n這個未成年的少年不管他可能一般家講未未少年未就學未就業的少年我們的確看到一個現象他其實他常常會對現金就是是眼前現金他有比較大的需求所以他有可能會因為這個原因去做一些高風險的職業我想這可能我們會放到整體對未未少年的\n整個就業的輔導我覺得特別來關注這件事情可能這不是調查調查我們可以做可以讓他更完備就可以做可是的確我們怎麼樣避免他因為需要短期的這個經費需要生活的費用然後\n去做這些高風險的狀況或甚至以身試法我覺得可能放我們整體框架我們會請我們法案署這邊來特別留意這個事情因為對於我覺得一直一直我在提醒青少年們都非常用心可不可以在這一部分再加強一下好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.149 --> 00:02.571\n主席麻煩部長請部長林委員早\n\n00:25.394 --> 00:39.691\n部長早我想個案還在釐清想問一個大家都在問的問題為什麼長榮罰不怕從2023年以來因為超時工作就被罰了7次共295萬還有性評違規外戰性騷擾等爭議是不是因為罰款太低對這些大企業\n\n00:45.217 --> 01:10.202\n這個罰款只是營運成本之一所以更嚴重的是有空務員還跟我講說公司內規根本把法規當塑膠的請假扣考金身兼備卡學長姐的壓迫文化還有導致員工身體不舒服不敢請假權益受損也不敢申訴這是不是制度性的風險勞基法的第79條跟80條的加重處罰跟限期改善\n\n01:11.402 --> 01:31.973\n對於長榮根本沒有效所以部長對這種違法的一個常客的大企業罰錢不是終點勞動部到底有沒有具體的一個讓限期改善真正的能夠落實跟委員說明第一個我想我們會堅守這個執法的立場\n\n01:33.581 --> 01:55.936\n那的確我們現在看到有一些在地方的勞檢機構他的裁罰的金額太低那我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來做討論那是狀況包括其實以長榮的事業規模跟這個他整個公司的營運的狀況其實如果是連續的他如果是連續的這樣子的常態性的狀況的話當然這個金額\n\n02:00.526 --> 02:20.507\n不應該是用這樣的方式在進行那第二個是我們會來加強對於不管尤其是長榮那他的這個專案的勞檢這部分我們會來那第三個其實我們也會考慮其實對像這樣子的慣犯那\n\n02:22.408 --> 02:49.873\n其實有時候一些適度的資訊的揭露專案式的資訊的揭露其實也會對他有一定的嚇阻的效果因為以長榮或這樣的航空業其實他們也很在意自己的企業形象可是大家卻看到這樣的企業形象下面卻是在勞動條件上面有這樣子的表現我覺得這可能跟社會上面大家對他的期待是有很大的落差\n\n02:50.273 --> 03:05.199\n我覺得還是要髮制了你說講到他在不在意企業形象可是你看資金還是用人命來買單他似乎好像也沒有特別去對這件事情有些什麼樣的一個做更好的一個機制\n\n03:05.979 --> 03:32.868\n那在部長今天原本要審的職安法的職場霸凌專章但我必須說就是長榮空服員來跟我檢舉的時候都很害怕因為在權力不對等下他們怕被報復怕被標籤化然後怕丟工作只能選擇噤聲六年前長榮罷工大家都記得但罷工後企業用法律戰一拖就是六年讓勞工吃盡苦頭\n\n03:35.149 --> 03:59.294\n就算最後申訴很多人早已因為經濟的壓力退出工會甚至離職學界說這就是工會的脆弱性面對企業的訴訟權根本就是雞蛋撞石頭部長我要請教是勞動部到底能不能透過修法讓工會法更積極的能夠平衡企業的訴訟力量保障我們的勞工的團結權\n\n04:03.120 --> 04:28.040\n報告委員我們工會法針對不當容的行為都有相當明文的規定那長榮的工會也都來跟我們申請那我們裁決委員會也都有判斷構成不當容的行為但是往往在訴訟的時候確實是法院的看法有時候不盡相同不過我們也會來繼續來努力看怎麼再來精進我們這個裁決或許會再爭取更多的法院對我們的支持\n\n04:28.760 --> 04:52.009\n我希望勞動部可以多花一些心力為什麼因為像上禮拜我們講職災的時候也是都是要勞工自己去面對不管事實上他因為他的勞權受損或者是他職災的時候都是要自己去面對訴訟一拖就是非常的好時間上非常的長那部長接下來我想請教一個那個障礙青年拖一定要問的問題\n\n04:53.469 --> 05:04.140\n兩個月前你在公開場合說過一句話台灣身心障礙者的勞動參與率只有21.9%還有很大的進步空間那現在兩個月都過去了部長有沒有新的對策\n\n05:05.997 --> 05:32.192\n我想關於剛才林委員講的部分應該是在那個障礙者的合理調整的一個重要的研討會的現場那我來做這樣的表達那我想我們對於障礙者的這個合理調因為合理調整其實是障礙者能夠進入到一個職場那甚至能夠去盡量的去做就業的穩定其實一個很重要的措施所以我們現在其實非常非常重視\n\n05:33.112 --> 05:56.503\n障礙者的合理調整我們現在也跟很多的障礙者社群是直接的來合作所以現在其實應該是在一個宣導跟宣講全台灣宣導跟宣講的這個階段可是我說我們跟障礙者社群的合作我們也希望接下來能夠創造更多的案例就像委員的投影片上對我們來講很清楚合理調整並不是一個鼓勵性的\n\n05:57.223 --> 06:07.968\n合理調整是雇主有義務的提供因為這在蠻多的這個法院的判決其實也看到所以這是有義務的提供我想我們把這個立場是說得很清楚了\n\n06:08.430 --> 06:37.035\n那勞動部掌握的資料大家也要請教是說關於身障者的勞動參與率就業率平均薪資跟穩定就業時間你們有沒有依照年齡學歷障別去做更多的更細緻的交叉分析為什麼要這樣問因為要從21.9%提高上去就要靠這些資料才能夠對症下藥我常常講數據會說話才能讓你了解到問題\n\n06:38.115 --> 07:01.632\n可是我現在看到資料幾乎只有用性別交叉分析沒有反映出更細緻的需求是不是有把只要特教鑑定證明但是沒有拿到身障手冊這群人的數據納入分析部長這種針對基礎資料的掌握跟分析你覺得現在的分析是否足夠能夠跟障礙就業這麼多元的議題來做對話\n\n07:06.198 --> 07:29.333\n謝謝委員的提醒因為委員其實很關心那在委員關心之後我也特別去了解確實過去我們相關的這個就業狀況的調查其實比較只有針對性別的部分那我們願意來增加一些其他的變相包括行業職業其他部分這部分我想我請我們署裡面來跟委員辦公室來請教一下\n\n07:29.993 --> 07:53.789\n接下来我要谈的是我们的政策工具的问题特别是定额禁用的制度去年平均下来主要禁用的单位比例事实上是91.63%非常高上面上曾经很好看可是要问的是即便有聘用这些工作内容我们真的了解吗政府的统计数据来看障碍者就业的主要集中在制造业多半是基础\n\n07:54.830 --> 08:24.030\n基层的技术劳工跟服务销售的工作很多障碍青年跟我说这些职业样态根本就没有对应到他们障碍者多元的需求那也严重限制了他们职业发展的可能性因为都做非常低底层的工作是不是很多工作还是集中在甚至就是文师处理行政术物这些低职能晋升空间很有限的职位那部长这些比例你有掌握吗你怎么去回应他讲的\n\n08:25.010 --> 08:43.560\n根本說明因為確實定額禁用是過去在生權法的時候其實一個蠻重要的一步可是這個部分比較能看得出是一個量的狀況可是就就業的值的部分比方說大家現在關心他就業的穩定或者是他的適配的狀況等等等這是為什麼我們\n\n08:45.141 --> 09:10.000\n現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念其實恐怕核心的概念都是必須把合理調整做好把合理調整做好才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任跟穩定的這個狀況所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作給做好或這些指標做好的話我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整給做到更踏實\n\n09:11.221 --> 09:35.261\n我们也希望你针对不同账别的程度转型后的一些适配度跟留任率跟留任时间跟工作满意度进行统整调查再麻烦劳动部这边那接下来部长我还有一件事情是障碍朋友一直要我来这边做反应的是他们质疑有些大企业会打着创新合作的名义规避禁用责任怎么做呢他们就把定额禁用的\n\n09:35.721 --> 10:02.399\n那个名额外包给各大专院校资源中心让身上学生用校园活动的助理的名义短期工作名义上人数都没有问题实际上是没有投入长期的培训也没有承担雇主要的责任所以学生也根本都没有进到那个企业就在学校里边部长这种状况你们有没有掌握如果企业这样子的专漏洞劳动部到底要怎么监督要不要考虑修法例如规定\n\n10:03.341 --> 10:08.379\n患病必須附帶培訓計畫或是限制登錄方式來防止濫用\n\n10:13.950 --> 10:32.980\n目前針對身權法規定的定額禁用那有些企業在身障禁用的部分會與大專校院來合作禁用身心障礙的學生有供讀進行供讀的工作那因為供讀的工作也都需要符合相關的勞動法規的規範\n\n10:35.512 --> 11:01.402\n可是我收到好幾個案子都是不是這樣有的學生受權益受到影響那老師呢也是背負了很大的壓力所以我覺得這部分是不是因為現在時間關係是不是提供相關的你們到底掌握的狀況到底是什麼提供給我們辦公室來讓我們了解否則的話我們目前看到的狀況跟你們所去做的那個狀況不太一樣為什麼\n\n11:02.242 --> 11:24.669\n因為政府現在對雇主的管理真的是太像茶水錶你只看有沒有禁用名冊對不對卻沒有後續的支持所以張艾青您常跟我講說他們現在學校遇到的問題甚至他們出了職場當中遇到的問題都是跟你們在我們看到你的報告時差不太一樣那就麻煩再提供給我這是為什麼我一直覺得\n\n11:25.569 --> 11:43.237\n不應該只是最只著重在定額禁用的數的數字然後因為只只是著重在定額禁用的這個總體的數字的時候其實可能下面會有各種的樣態他他不一定都符合我們原本的期待或政策期待所以我覺得這部分我們會來做一些檢視是\n\n11:44.657 --> 12:02.499\n最后一个是部长我很快请教一个问题上回会期我们就讨论到未成年就业我觉得真的劳动部很用心也开始在做多元的方案非常感谢你们的努力可是唯一没有被处理的就是未成年就业现况跟劳动权益的调查因为从少数有劳保的资料来看\n\n12:04.061 --> 12:18.232\n15歲在工地營建製造業的比例竟然比16、17歲還要高部長你認為這樣的數字代表什麼這群孩子年紀非常小技能不足可是他們只能做的是被挑剩下的工作\n\n12:18.812 --> 12:41.121\n最常还常为了领先去高风险没有保障的一个职场所以这样的困境如果没有制度协助的话会一路拖到青年阶段所以部长要更深入的掌握到数据背后的意义对政策对准来做需求这项调查是不是赶快能够启动让民间而且邀请民间跟民间团体一起来合作进行\n\n12:43.673 --> 13:08.644\n這個未成年的少年不管他可能一般家講未未少年未就學未就業的少年我們的確看到一個現象他其實他常常會對現金就是是眼前現金他有比較大的需求所以他有可能會因為這個原因去做一些高風險的職業我想這可能我們會放到整體對未未少年的\n\n13:09.184 --> 13:24.269\n整個就業的輔導我覺得特別來關注這件事情可能這不是調查調查我們可以做可以讓他更完備就可以做可是的確我們怎麼樣避免他因為需要短期的這個經費需要生活的費用然後\n\n13:25.029 --> 13:39.652\n去做這些高風險的狀況或甚至以身試法我覺得可能放我們整體框架我們會請我們法案署這邊來特別留意這個事情因為對於我覺得一直一直我在提醒青少年們都非常用心可不可以在這一部分再加強一下好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.149,"end":2.571,"text":"主席麻煩部長請部長林委員早"},{"start":25.394,"end":39.691,"text":"部長早我想個案還在釐清想問一個大家都在問的問題為什麼長榮罰不怕從2023年以來因為超時工作就被罰了7次共295萬還有性評違規外戰性騷擾等爭議是不是因為罰款太低對這些大企業"},{"start":45.217,"end":70.202,"text":"這個罰款只是營運成本之一所以更嚴重的是有空務員還跟我講說公司內規根本把法規當塑膠的請假扣考金身兼備卡學長姐的壓迫文化還有導致員工身體不舒服不敢請假權益受損也不敢申訴這是不是制度性的風險勞基法的第79條跟80條的加重處罰跟限期改善"},{"start":71.402,"end":91.973,"text":"對於長榮根本沒有效 所以部長對這種違法的一個常客的大企業罰錢不是終點 勞動部到底有沒有具體的一個讓限期改善真正的能夠落實跟委員說明 第一個我想我們會堅守這個執法的立場"},{"start":93.581,"end":115.936,"text":"那的確我們現在看到有一些在地方的勞檢機構他的裁罰的金額太低那我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來做討論那是狀況包括其實以長榮的事業規模跟這個他整個公司的營運的狀況其實如果是連續的他如果是連續的這樣子的常態性的狀況的話當然這個金額"},{"start":120.526,"end":140.507,"text":"不應該是用這樣的方式在進行那第二個是我們會來加強對於不管尤其是長榮那他的這個專案的勞檢這部分我們會來那第三個其實我們也會考慮其實對像這樣子的慣犯那"},{"start":142.408,"end":169.873,"text":"其實有時候一些適度的資訊的揭露專案式的資訊的揭露其實也會對他有一定的嚇阻的效果因為以長榮或這樣的航空業其實他們也很在意自己的企業形象可是大家卻看到這樣的企業形象下面卻是在勞動條件上面有這樣子的表現我覺得這可能跟社會上面大家對他的期待是有很大的落差"},{"start":170.273,"end":185.199,"text":"我覺得還是要髮制了你說講到他在不在意企業形象可是你看資金還是用人命來買單他似乎好像也沒有特別去對這件事情有些什麼樣的一個做更好的一個機制"},{"start":185.979,"end":212.868,"text":"那在部長今天原本要審的職安法的職場霸凌專章但我必須說就是長榮空服員來跟我檢舉的時候都很害怕因為在權力不對等下他們怕被報復怕被標籤化然後怕丟工作只能選擇噤聲六年前長榮罷工大家都記得但罷工後企業用法律戰一拖就是六年讓勞工吃盡苦頭"},{"start":215.149,"end":239.294,"text":"就算最後申訴很多人早已因為經濟的壓力退出工會甚至離職學界說這就是工會的脆弱性面對企業的訴訟權根本就是雞蛋撞石頭部長我要請教是勞動部到底能不能透過修法讓工會法更積極的能夠平衡企業的訴訟力量保障我們的勞工的團結權"},{"start":243.12,"end":268.04,"text":"報告委員 我們工會法針對不當容的行為都有相當明文的規定那長榮的工會也都來跟我們申請那我們裁決委員會也都有判斷構成不當容的行為但是往往在訴訟的時候確實是法院的看法有時候不盡相同不過我們也會來繼續來努力看怎麼再來精進我們這個裁決或許會再爭取更多的法院對我們的支持"},{"start":268.76,"end":292.009,"text":"我希望勞動部可以多花一些心力為什麼因為像上禮拜我們講職災的時候也是都是要勞工自己去面對不管事實上他因為他的勞權受損或者是他職災的時候都是要自己去面對訴訟一拖就是非常的好時間上非常的長那部長接下來我想請教一個那個障礙青年拖一定要問的問題"},{"start":293.469,"end":304.14,"text":"兩個月前你在公開場合說過一句話台灣身心障礙者的勞動參與率只有21.9%還有很大的進步空間那現在兩個月都過去了部長有沒有新的對策"},{"start":305.997,"end":332.192,"text":"我想關於剛才林委員講的部分應該是在那個障礙者的合理調整的一個重要的研討會的現場那我來做這樣的表達那我想我們對於障礙者的這個合理調因為合理調整其實是障礙者能夠進入到一個職場那甚至能夠去盡量的去做就業的穩定其實一個很重要的措施所以我們現在其實非常非常重視"},{"start":333.112,"end":356.503,"text":"障礙者的合理調整我們現在也跟很多的障礙者社群是直接的來合作所以現在其實應該是在一個宣導跟宣講全台灣宣導跟宣講的這個階段可是我說我們跟障礙者社群的合作我們也希望接下來能夠創造更多的案例就像委員的投影片上對我們來講很清楚合理調整並不是一個鼓勵性的"},{"start":357.223,"end":367.968,"text":"合理調整是雇主有義務的提供因為這在蠻多的這個法院的判決其實也看到所以這是有義務的提供我想我們把這個立場是說得很清楚了"},{"start":368.43,"end":397.035,"text":"那勞動部掌握的資料大家也要請教是說關於身障者的勞動參與率就業率平均薪資跟穩定就業時間你們有沒有依照年齡學歷障別去做更多的更細緻的交叉分析為什麼要這樣問因為要從21.9%提高上去就要靠這些資料才能夠對症下藥我常常講數據會說話才能讓你了解到問題"},{"start":398.115,"end":421.632,"text":"可是我現在看到資料幾乎只有用性別交叉分析沒有反映出更細緻的需求是不是有把只要特教鑑定證明但是沒有拿到身障手冊這群人的數據納入分析部長這種針對基礎資料的掌握跟分析你覺得現在的分析是否足夠能夠跟障礙就業這麼多元的議題來做對話"},{"start":426.198,"end":449.333,"text":"謝謝委員的提醒 因為委員其實很關心那在委員關心之後 我也特別去了解確實過去我們相關的這個就業狀況的調查其實比較只有針對性別的部分那我們願意來增加一些其他的變相 包括行業職業其他部分 這部分我想我請我們署裡面來跟委員辦公室來請教一下"},{"start":449.993,"end":473.789,"text":"接下来我要谈的是我们的政策工具的问题特别是定额禁用的制度去年平均下来主要禁用的单位比例事实上是91.63%非常高上面上曾经很好看可是要问的是即便有聘用这些工作内容我们真的了解吗政府的统计数据来看障碍者就业的主要集中在制造业多半是基础"},{"start":474.83,"end":504.03,"text":"基层的技术劳工跟服务销售的工作很多障碍青年跟我说这些职业样态根本就没有对应到他们障碍者多元的需求那也严重限制了他们职业发展的可能性因为都做非常低底层的工作是不是很多工作还是集中在甚至就是文师处理行政术物这些低职能晋升空间很有限的职位那部长这些比例你有掌握吗你怎么去回应他讲的"},{"start":505.01,"end":523.56,"text":"根本說明因為確實定額禁用是過去在生權法的時候其實一個蠻重要的一步可是這個部分比較能看得出是一個量的狀況可是就就業的值的部分比方說大家現在關心他就業的穩定或者是他的適配的狀況等等等這是為什麼我們"},{"start":525.141,"end":550,"text":"現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念其實恐怕核心的概念都是必須把合理調整做好把合理調整做好才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任跟穩定的這個狀況所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作給做好或這些指標做好的話我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整給做到更踏實"},{"start":551.221,"end":575.261,"text":"我们也希望你针对不同账别的程度转型后的一些适配度跟留任率跟留任时间跟工作满意度进行统整调查再麻烦劳动部这边那接下来部长我还有一件事情是障碍朋友一直要我来这边做反应的是他们质疑有些大企业会打着创新合作的名义规避禁用责任怎么做呢他们就把定额禁用的"},{"start":575.721,"end":602.399,"text":"那个名额外包给各大专院校资源中心让身上学生用校园活动的助理的名义短期工作名义上人数都没有问题实际上是没有投入长期的培训也没有承担雇主要的责任所以学生也根本都没有进到那个企业就在学校里边部长这种状况你们有没有掌握如果企业这样子的专漏洞劳动部到底要怎么监督要不要考虑修法例如规定"},{"start":603.341,"end":608.379,"text":"患病必須附帶培訓計畫或是限制登錄方式來防止濫用"},{"start":613.95,"end":632.98,"text":"目前針對身權法規定的定額禁用那有些企業在身障禁用的部分會與大專校院來合作禁用身心障礙的學生有供讀進行供讀的工作那因為供讀的工作也都需要符合相關的勞動法規的規範"},{"start":635.512,"end":661.402,"text":"可是我收到好幾個案子都是不是這樣有的學生受權益受到影響那老師呢也是背負了很大的壓力所以我覺得這部分是不是因為現在時間關係是不是提供相關的你們到底掌握的狀況到底是什麼提供給我們辦公室來讓我們了解否則的話我們目前看到的狀況跟你們所去做的那個狀況不太一樣為什麼"},{"start":662.242,"end":684.669,"text":"因為政府現在對雇主的管理真的是太像茶水錶你只看有沒有禁用 名冊對不對卻沒有後續的支持所以張艾青您常跟我講說他們現在學校遇到的問題甚至他們出了職場當中遇到的問題都是跟你們在我們看到你的報告時差不太一樣那就麻煩再提供給我這是為什麼我一直覺得"},{"start":685.569,"end":703.237,"text":"不應該只是最只著重在定額禁用的數的數字然後因為只只是著重在定額禁用的這個總體的數字的時候其實可能下面會有各種的樣態他他不一定都符合我們原本的期待或政策期待所以我覺得這部分我們會來做一些檢視是"},{"start":704.657,"end":722.499,"text":"最后一个是部长我很快请教一个问题上回会期我们就讨论到未成年就业我觉得真的劳动部很用心也开始在做多元的方案非常感谢你们的努力可是唯一没有被处理的就是未成年就业现况跟劳动权益的调查因为从少数有劳保的资料来看"},{"start":724.061,"end":738.232,"text":"15歲在工地營建製造業的比例竟然比16、17歲還要高部長你認為這樣的數字代表什麼這群孩子年紀非常小 技能不足可是他們只能做的是被挑剩下的工作"},{"start":738.812,"end":761.121,"text":"最常还常为了领先去高风险没有保障的一个职场所以这样的困境如果没有制度协助的话会一路拖到青年阶段所以部长要更深入的掌握到数据背后的意义对政策对准来做需求这项调查是不是赶快能够启动让民间而且邀请民间跟民间团体一起来合作进行"},{"start":763.673,"end":788.644,"text":"這個未成年的少年不管他可能一般家講未未少年未就學未就業的少年我們的確看到一個現象他其實他常常會對現金就是是眼前現金他有比較大的需求所以他有可能會因為這個原因去做一些高風險的職業我想這可能我們會放到整體對未未少年的"},{"start":789.184,"end":804.269,"text":"整個就業的輔導我覺得特別來關注這件事情可能這不是調查調查我們可以做可以讓他更完備就可以做可是的確我們怎麼樣避免他因為需要短期的這個經費需要生活的費用然後"},{"start":805.029,"end":819.652,"text":"去做這些高風險的狀況或甚至以身試法我覺得可能放我們整體框架我們會請我們法案署這邊來特別留意這個事情因為對於我覺得一直一直我在提醒青少年們都非常用心可不可以在這一部分再加強一下好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":525,"blocks":[["林委員月琴：（10時18分）主席，麻煩部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：林委員早。"],["林委員月琴：部長早。我想個案還在釐清，想問一個大家都在問的問題，為什麼長榮罰不怕？從2023年以來，因為超時工作就被罰了7次，共295萬，還有性平違規、外站性騷擾等爭議，是不是因為罰款太低，對這些大企業來說，這個罰款只是營運成本之一？更嚴重的是，還有空服員跟我講公司內規根本把法規當塑膠，請假扣考績、升遷被卡、學長姐的壓迫文化導致員工身體不舒服不敢請假，權益受損也不敢申訴，這是不是制度性的風險？勞基法第七十九條跟第八十條的加重處罰跟限期改善對於長榮根本沒有效。所以部長，對這種違法常客的大企業，罰錢不是終點，勞動部到底有沒有具體的方法，讓限期改善能夠真正的落實？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，第一個，我們會堅守執法的立場，的確我們現在看到有一些地方的勞檢機構其裁罰金額太低，我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來視狀況做討論，以長榮的事業規模跟整個公司的營運狀況，他如果是連續的、常態性的狀況的話，當然這個金額不應該是用這樣子的方式在進行。第二個是我們會來加強對於……尤其是長榮，他的專案的勞檢，這部分我們會來……第三個，其實我們也會考慮，對於像這樣子的慣犯，其實有時候一些資訊適度的的揭露，專案式的資訊揭露，其實也會對他有一定的嚇阻的效果，因為以長榮或這樣的航空業來說，其實他們也很在意自己的企業形象，可是大家卻看到在這樣的企業形象下，在勞動條件上卻是這樣子的表現，我覺得這可能跟社會上面大家對他的期待有很大的落差。"],["林委員月琴：我覺得還是要有法制，你說他在不在意企業形象，可是你看，至今還是用人命來買單，對這件事情，他似乎好像也沒有特別去做能夠變得更好的機制。再來部長，今天原本要審職安法的職場霸凌專章，但我必須說，長榮空服員來跟我檢舉的時候都很害怕，因為在權力不對等下，他們怕被報復、怕被標籤化，然後怕丟工作，只能選擇噤聲。六年前的長榮罷工大家都記得，但罷工後，企業用法律戰一拖就是六年，讓勞工吃盡苦頭，就算最後勝訴，很多人早已因為經濟的壓力退出工會甚至離職。學界說，這就是工會的脆弱性，面對企業的訴訟權，根本就是雞蛋撞石頭啦！部長，我要請教的是，勞動部到底能不能透過修法，讓工會法能夠更積極的平衡企業的訴訟力量，保障我們勞工的團結權？"],["林署長毓堂：報告委員，我們的工會法針對不當勞動行為都有相當明文的規定，長榮的工會也都來跟我們申請，我們的裁決委員會也都有判斷構成不當勞動行為，但是往往在訴訟的時候，確實有時候法院的看法不盡相同，不過我們也會繼續來努力，看怎樣再來精進我們的裁決，後續會再爭取更多的法院對我們的支持。"],["林委員月琴：我希望勞動部可以多花一些心力，為什麼？因為像上禮拜我們講到職災的時候，也都是要勞工自己去面對，不管事實上是他的勞權受損，或者是他遭遇職災的時候，都是要自己去面對訴訟，一拖就是非常長的時間。","部長，接下來我想請教一個障礙青年託我一定要問的問題。兩個月前你在公開場合說過一句話，臺灣身心障礙者的勞動參與率只有21.9%，還有很大的進步空間，現在兩個月都過去了，部長，有沒有新的對策？"],["洪部長申翰：剛才林委員講的這部分，應該是在一個障礙者合理調整的重要研討會的現場，我來做這樣的表達。我想對於障礙者的合理調整，因為合理調整其實是障礙者能夠進入一個職場，甚至能夠儘量的達到穩定就業的一個很重要的措施，所以我們現在其實非常非常重視障礙者的合理調整，我們現在也跟很多的障礙者社群直接來合作。所以現在其實應該是在一個全臺灣宣導跟宣講的階段，可是我們跟障礙者社群的合作，我們也希望接下來能夠創造更多的案例，就像委員的投影片上，對我們來講很清楚，合理調整並不是鼓勵性的，合理調整是雇主有義務要提供，這個在蠻多法院的判決其實也看得到，所以這是有義務要提供的，我想我們把這個立場說得很清楚了。"],["林委員月琴：就勞動部掌握的資料，我也要請教的是關於身障者的勞動參與率、就業率、平均薪資跟穩定就業時間，你們有沒有依照年齡、學歷、障別去做更多、更細緻的交叉分析？為什麼我要這樣問，因為要從21.9%提高上去就要靠這些資料才能夠對症下藥。我常常講數據會說話，才能讓你了解到問題，可是我現在看到的資料幾乎只有用性別交叉分析，沒有反映出更細緻的需求。是不是有把只有特教鑑定證明，但是沒有拿到身障手冊這群人的數據納入分析？部長，針對基礎資料的掌握跟分析，你覺得現在的分析是否足夠能跟障礙就業這麼多元的議題來對話？"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝委員的提醒，因為委員其實是很關心，在委員關心之後，我也特別去了解，確實過去我們相關的就業狀況的調查比較只有針對性別的部分，我們也願意來增加一些其他的變項，包括……"],["林委員月琴：好，那就麻煩部長……"],["洪部長申翰：其他的部分，這部分我會請我們署裡面跟委員辦公室來請教一下，好不好？"],["林委員月琴：好，再麻煩。部長，接下來我要談的是政策工具的問題，特別是定額進用制度。去年平均下來，除了進用單位比率達91.63%非常高，帳面上成績很好看，可是要問的是，即便有聘用，這些工作內容我們真的了解嗎？就政府的統計數據來看，障礙者的就業領域主要集中在製造業，多半是基層的技術勞工跟服務銷售的工作，很多障礙青年跟我說，這些職業樣態根本就沒有對應到他們障礙者多元的需求，也嚴重限制了他們職涯發展的可能性，因為都做非常底層的工作。是不是很多工作還是集中在甚至就是文書處理、行政庶務這些低職能，晉升空間很有限的職位？部長，這些比率你有掌握嗎？你怎麼去回應他講的？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，確實定額進用是過去在身權法的時候蠻重要的一步，可是這個部分比較能看得出是一個量的狀況，可是就就業的質的部分，比方說大家現在關心他就業的穩定，或者是他的適配的狀況等等等，這是為什麼我們現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因，因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念，恐怕核心的癥結都是必須把合理調整做好。把合理調整做好，才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任及穩定就業的結果，所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作或是這些指標做好的話，我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整做到更踏實……"],["林委員月琴：不過我們也希望你針對不同障別程度的轉銜後的適配度、留任率跟留任時間以及工作滿意度進行統整調查，再麻煩勞動部這邊。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["林委員月琴：接下來，部長，還有一件事情是障礙朋友一直要我來這邊反映的是，他們質疑有些大企業會打著創新合作的名義規避進用責任。怎麼做呢？他們就把定額進用的名額外包給各大專院校資源中心，讓身障學生用校園活動助理的名義短期工作，名義上人數都沒有問題，實際上卻沒有投入長期的培訓，也沒有承擔雇主的責任，所以學生也根本都沒有進到那個企業，就在學校裡邊。部長，這種狀況你們有沒有掌握？如果企業這樣子鑽漏洞，勞動部到底要怎麼監督，要不要考慮修法？例如規定換聘必須附帶培訓計畫，或是限制登錄方式來防止濫用？"],["劉組長玉儀：目前針對身權法規定的定額進用，有些企業在身障進用的部分會與大專校院合作，進用身心障礙學生從事工讀的工作，因為是工讀的工作，也都需要符合相關的勞動法規的規範。"],["林委員月琴：可是我收到好幾個案子都不是這樣，有的學生權益受到影響，老師也背負了很大的壓力，所以我覺得這部分，因為時間的關係，是不是請你們把你們掌握的狀況到底是什麼，提供給我們辦公室讓我們了解，否則的話，我們目前看到的狀況跟你們所去做的那個狀況不太一樣，為什麼？因為政府現在對於雇主的管理，真的是太像查水表，你只看有沒有進用，名冊對不對，卻沒有後續的支持。所以障礙青年常常跟我講說，他們現在在學校遇到的問題，甚至他們進入職場當中遇到的問題，都跟我們看到的你們的報告實際上不太一樣。那就麻煩再提供給我。"],["洪部長申翰：好，委員，這是為什麼我一直覺得不應該只著重在定額進用的數字，因為只著重在定額進用的那個總體數字的時候，可能下面會有各種的樣態不一定都符合我們原本政策的期待，所以，我覺得這部分我們會來做一些檢視。"],["林委員月琴：最後一個，部長，我很快請教一個問題。上個會期我們就討論到未成年就業的問題，我覺得真的勞動部很用心，也開始在做多元的方案，非常感謝你們的努力。可是唯一沒有被處理的就是未成年就業現況跟勞動權益的調查，因為從少數有勞保的資料來看的話，15歲在工地營建、製造業的比例竟然比16、17歲還要高，部長，你認為這樣的數字代表什麼？這群孩子年紀非常小，技能不足，可是他們只能做被挑剩下的工作，還常常為了領現而去高風險且沒有保障的職場，這樣的困境如果沒有制度協助的話，會一路拖到青年階段。所以，部長，要更深入的掌握數據背後的意義來對準政策的需求，這項調查是不是趕快能夠啟動，而且跟民間團體一起來合作進行？"],["洪部長申翰：這個未成年的少年，可能是我們一般講的未未少年（未就學、未就業的少年），我們的確看到一個現象，他其實常常會對現金，就是眼前的現金他有比較大的需求，所以他有可能會因為這個原因去做一些高風險的職業，我想這個可能我們會放到對於未未少年的整個就業的輔導，我覺得要特別來關注這件事情。可能這也不只調查，調查我們可以做，可以讓它更完備就可以做，可是我們怎麼樣避免他因為需要短期的經費、需要生活的費用，然後去做這些高風險的狀況，甚至以身試法，我覺得這可能是放在我們整體的框架，我會請我們發展署這邊來特別留意這個事情。"],["林委員月琴：好，再麻煩部長。因為你們對於……我覺得我一直在提醒青少年的部分，你們都非常用心，可不可以在這部分再加強一下？"],["洪部長申翰：好。"],["林委員月琴：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝部長，謝謝。休息10分鐘，剛剛宣告了，不好意思。CO2已經超過一千多了，你們在現場的職業安全也不太安全，好不好？窗戶稍微打開一下。","休息（10時32分）","繼續開會（10時44分）"],["主席：我們繼續開會。","接下來請蘇清泉召委來做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":204,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-4","speakers":["劉建國","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","翁曉玲","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林月琴","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","楊曜","張雅琳","洪孟楷","范雲","盧縣一","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148502_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場\n健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員魯明\n哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文\n修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員\n李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業\n安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十一) 委員翁曉玲等23 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五\n條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 十三) 委員劉建國等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員沈發\n惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正\n草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員\n王鴻薇等19 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 委員郭昱晴等17 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案【綜合詢答】","agenda_id":"1148502_00001"}}}