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\"O\", \"start\": 646.04, \"end\": 646.161, \"score\": 0.814}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 646.161, \"end\": 646.341, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 646.341, \"end\": 646.561, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 646.561, \"end\": 646.681, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 646.681, \"end\": 646.701, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,734 --> 00:00:09,798\n謝謝主席我們請陳主席長有請陳主席長委員好主席長好請教一下主席長因為去年底在野黨倉促修法這個財化法造成了許多的問題那現在除了說有關這個公視的錯誤在野黨他們自己會提修法之外那這兩天我也聽到我們卓院長講未來行政院會提出自己版本的財化法嗎\n\n2\n00:00:34,525 --> 00:00:54,965\n是原則上財政部目前已經都在研擬當中那國發會也針對一般補助和計劃性補助的相關的一個事權一直在檢討所以這個部分我們也都參與在討論那這個部分近期財政部希望說跟縣市再討論再召開縣市來做一個討論然後之後再來做一個決定\n\n3\n00:00:57,888 --> 00:01:13,419\n不過主席長我跟你講這會有時間上的壓力就是說你可能沒辦法就是說還有很充裕的時間再找各個縣市再來討論這個才化法因為現在在野黨他們也會再提自己的才化法的版本出來\n\n4\n00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:44,020\n如果按照这个他们现在要提的这个财务法的版本就是他们在这个给各县市的这个一般性的补助款不得低于前一年的金额然后呢计划型的补助款的补助比率呢不得低于过去十年同财力及次的县市还有同类型计划的平均值那今天下午可能超越协商就会讨论所以我跟你讲我们这个要提出我们自己的原版的财务法\n\n5\n00:01:44,840 --> 00:02:09,818\n直接上面有壓力啊那如果按照這一檔他們所提出來的才華法的話會產生什麼樣的問題因為這執行上是有困難的因為像計劃型的補助是根據各縣市的一個需求然後它是有變動因為執行譬如說有的執行兩年一年之後它這計畫就不執行就要換新的計畫所以沒有辦法說保持一定的額度各縣市保持一定的額度而是必須要看\n\n6\n00:02:10,518 --> 00:02:34,653\n各縣市實際的需求然後還包括各縣市的財力的一個分級狀況來做分配那以財化法之後呢它整個一個財力分級是已經改變了是沒有辦法維持去年或是以前10年舊的財化法分配的一個額度所以這個部分都必須要做重新的一個修正尤其你計劃的部分維持不變的額度\n\n7\n00:02:37,074 --> 00:02:44,900\n各縣是維持不變額度這是實際上是有困難的所以實際上我跟你講就是說會遇到在野黨他們如果再提出版本的話那就會產生一些新的問題所以我才說我們不論是財政部或是主計處我們對於這個願版的財化法其實沒有很多的時間可以再慢慢的琢磨可能就必須要在這個短的時間裡面\n\n8\n00:03:03,553 --> 00:03:30,564\n要我們自己一個願版要提出來我們才有辦法跟外界來討論不然就會變成只有在野黨的版本那在野黨版本就像剛剛竹記長所講的還是會有問題不論是他們這個一般性的補助款或是計畫性補助款的那個比例還是會產生問題所以我是先跟竹記長講這個現在是10月底了這個我們自己願版的版本可能在11月份左右我覺得大概要準備了\n\n9\n00:03:31,364 --> 00:03:48,398\n有這個部分財政部都已經在充分的一個研究所以這個本身的一個他的一個提出的一個實證這個部分我們會回去轉告就是院裡頭請他這個部分是不是能夠加快我覺得不會留太多時間給我們那再請教一下主計長你剛有提到就是說因為我們希望說財權跟市權在這個懲罰法的劃分之下能夠做這一個適當的移轉\n\n10\n00:03:58,746 --> 00:04:14,528\n但是有一些就像你講的必須要修法我請教你就是說我們有關基本財政收支短差部分我們說要回歸給地方指引譬如說像農保、老農津貼、國民年金等等這些要不要修法\n\n11\n00:04:15,103 --> 00:04:30,802\n要修法對啊那如果說我們希望說財權跟事權那能夠劃分有些是屬於地方的希望回歸到地方但是你們有去了解或去統整的到底修法的這個有哪一些法律條文必須要做修改咧\n\n12\n00:04:31,903 --> 00:04:59,225\n現在原則上原來省政府的部分是11%原來縣政府的部分是4%所以整個財源移出15%那省政府的市權包括原來省立的高中職省立高中職現在是國立高中職是中央在負擔縱使直轄市它有一些是變成市立但是還是中央在補助那還有一個是勞健保的一個補助榮保\n\n13\n00:04:59,986 --> 00:05:07,042\n劳健保劳容津贴那这些都必须要相关修相关的作用所以你们有修法的信单出来了吗\n\n14\n00:05:08,494 --> 00:05:37,714\n這個部分修法的部分還必須要各部會來提出但是目前光是以一般性補助屬於縣市應辦的事項要回歸就碰到很大的阻礙所以這個要修法的部分我也請這個我們財政部我們主計處要趕快要整理出來因為我們有跟外界講說我們希望說市權財權能夠分清楚但是有一些是屬於地方那屬於地方的又必須要經過修法\n\n15\n00:05:38,334 --> 00:05:44,917\n才能夠移轉給他們不需要所以地方應辦的事項我們透過一般性補助透過計劃我剛剛講的那些法對剛剛那些法必須透過修法所以這個部分是國發會事權的部分是國發會在負責國發會現在都已經在則曾在檢討說哪些一個事權必須要修法的那這個清單大概哪時候會確定勒\n\n16\n00:06:02,146 --> 00:06:26,849\n這個部分國化會已經在進行中了我同樣在強調我們時間不多了我覺得這個東西如果我們要跟大家講就是說有一些必須要移轉到這個地方但是必須要修法的我覺得那個清單你要趕快出來那剛有些就是說不需要修法就是說按照我們這個地方制度法第18條第19條規定有些教育文化社會福利水利道路交通事項\n\n17\n00:06:27,429 --> 00:06:45,463\n是属于县市政府的自治事项按照统法70条的规定应该以其自有的裁员优先编列预算的资应那这部分的话就不用修法了是这部分是不需要修法直接回归由县市的一个所获得的统筹分配税来资应即可\n\n18\n00:06:45,663 --> 00:07:02,613\n但是要講清楚因為之前就發生了說那為什麼這個冷氣以前就是由中央來出的那現在由地方來出或是說這個營養午餐以前中央出的為什麼現在由地方來出要講清楚啊那講不清楚的話變成中央又挨打就是說你看嘛\n\n19\n00:07:03,673 --> 00:07:21,410\n至少我知道的水電費學校的午餐費國產可溯源的食材冷氣費維護費這些等等這些有一些按照地方知識事項的它就必須要回歸到地方來做處理但是我沒有講清楚\n\n20\n00:07:22,691 --> 00:07:36,298\n或是說外界不知道或是各個縣市政府他們可能也都知道了也應該都知道了但是他就不管你反正我就先跟你吵就是說這本來應該中央出的那為什麼後來變成地方要出了然後變成地方政府的首長\n\n21\n00:07:37,879 --> 00:07:58,954\n又自己做紅包做這個善苔童子就說沒關係中央不出我地方來出就變成這樣子你知道嗎我們應該說應該是由地方來出的那結果地方就說你看中央都不出然後後來就說沒關係我自己地方可以來出因為現在地方錢比較多了本來就可以來出所以我覺得這部分主席總署要說清楚\n\n22\n00:07:59,514 --> 00:07:59,874\n主席長我跟妳講\n\n23\n00:08:18,630 --> 00:08:39,942\n縣市政府他們知道他們的這個主席財政都知道但是這是一個政治的一個議題這不是說他們知道我跟你講有些縣市首長他就是知道他一樣跟你講說為什麼以前是中央出的現在變地方出了所以我們要先講要先跟大家講清楚就是說那為什麼現在以前由中央出中央出也不是這個義務要出的\n\n24\n00:08:40,862 --> 00:08:58,717\n中央是認為說地方錢不夠中央來出那可是按照這個地方制度法相關的規定本來就應該有地方來出嘛那現在如果地方有這個錢的地方來出是合理啊對不對我覺得這個已經挨了好幾次悶棍了這個中央政府要學乖啦那我最後請教一下這個我們物價\n\n25\n00:08:59,958 --> 00:09:18,021\n雖然我看你們的物價統計CPI一到九月較去年同期漲了1.77%但是我們的核心的CPI漲得比較多我們至少每個月購買一次者上漲2.74%就包含蘇國外食醫療費用的漲幅這個民眾會覺得說\n\n26\n00:09:26,653 --> 00:09:45,684\n我們現在的物價真的是偏高就我們自己在外面不論是外食或是說是買東西或吃東西等等之類的這個感覺上物價沒有像我們數字報告上面的好像說一點多而已好像也沒有到百分之二的警戒值\n\n27\n00:09:46,184 --> 00:10:03,920\n那这个部分我要请这个主席总书可能你们要稍微就是考量一下当然我知道说你们有针对一些重要的民生物价你们有做一些对我们有公布有公布啦比如说可是我看外食的费用啦什么猪肉的费用啦水果水果的费用啦\n\n28\n00:10:04,860 --> 00:10:30,323\n这10个月来每个月都增加这对于老百姓来讲是一个很大的负担但是它已经逐渐在回稳当中像去年的话一般石油还有一些原物料它是高涨但是今年都回稳逐渐降低很多像水果蔬菜是受台风或灾害的影响最大它也会逐渐回稳\n\n29\n00:10:31,164 --> 00:10:46,701\n主席長數字看起來好像回穩但是對於民眾的心理感受來講物價是偏高的目前是外食會是偏高的對啊這個我們自己要注意一下就是不要數字跟民眾的心理感受偏差太遠是是OK好謝謝謝謝主席長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4734\t9798\t謝謝主席我們請陳主席長有請陳主席長委員好主席長好請教一下主席長因為去年底在野黨倉促修法這個財化法造成了許多的問題那現在除了說有關這個公視的錯誤在野黨他們自己會提修法之外那這兩天我也聽到我們卓院長講未來行政院會提出自己版本的財化法嗎\n34525\t54965\t是原則上財政部目前已經都在研擬當中那國發會也針對一般補助和計劃性補助的相關的一個事權一直在檢討所以這個部分我們也都參與在討論那這個部分近期財政部希望說跟縣市再討論再召開縣市來做一個討論然後之後再來做一個決定\n57888\t73419\t不過主席長我跟你講這會有時間上的壓力就是說你可能沒辦法就是說還有很充裕的時間再找各個縣市再來討論這個才化法因為現在在野黨他們也會再提自己的才化法的版本出來\n74560\t104020\t如果按照这个他们现在要提的这个财务法的版本就是他们在这个给各县市的这个一般性的补助款不得低于前一年的金额然后呢计划型的补助款的补助比率呢不得低于过去十年同财力及次的县市还有同类型计划的平均值那今天下午可能超越协商就会讨论所以我跟你讲我们这个要提出我们自己的原版的财务法\n104840\t129818\t直接上面有壓力啊那如果按照這一檔他們所提出來的才華法的話會產生什麼樣的問題因為這執行上是有困難的因為像計劃型的補助是根據各縣市的一個需求然後它是有變動因為執行譬如說有的執行兩年一年之後它這計畫就不執行就要換新的計畫所以沒有辦法說保持一定的額度各縣市保持一定的額度而是必須要看\n130518\t154653\t各縣市實際的需求然後還包括各縣市的財力的一個分級狀況來做分配那以財化法之後呢它整個一個財力分級是已經改變了是沒有辦法維持去年或是以前10年舊的財化法分配的一個額度所以這個部分都必須要做重新的一個修正尤其你計劃的部分維持不變的額度\n157074\t164900\t各縣是維持不變額度這是實際上是有困難的所以實際上我跟你講就是說會遇到在野黨他們如果再提出版本的話那就會產生一些新的問題所以我才說我們不論是財政部或是主計處我們對於這個願版的財化法其實沒有很多的時間可以再慢慢的琢磨可能就必須要在這個短的時間裡面\n183553\t210564\t要我們自己一個願版要提出來我們才有辦法跟外界來討論不然就會變成只有在野黨的版本那在野黨版本就像剛剛竹記長所講的還是會有問題不論是他們這個一般性的補助款或是計畫性補助款的那個比例還是會產生問題所以我是先跟竹記長講這個現在是10月底了這個我們自己願版的版本可能在11月份左右我覺得大概要準備了\n211364\t228398\t有這個部分財政部都已經在充分的一個研究所以這個本身的一個他的一個提出的一個實證這個部分我們會回去轉告就是院裡頭請他這個部分是不是能夠加快我覺得不會留太多時間給我們那再請教一下主計長你剛有提到就是說因為我們希望說財權跟市權在這個懲罰法的劃分之下能夠做這一個適當的移轉\n238746\t254528\t但是有一些就像你講的必須要修法我請教你就是說我們有關基本財政收支短差部分我們說要回歸給地方指引譬如說像農保、老農津貼、國民年金等等這些要不要修法\n255103\t270802\t要修法對啊 那如果說我們希望說財權跟事權那能夠劃分有些是屬於地方的希望回歸到地方但是你們有去了解或去統整的到底修法的這個有哪一些法律條文必須要做修改咧\n271903\t299225\t現在原則上原來省政府的部分是11%原來縣政府的部分是4%所以整個財源移出15%那省政府的市權包括原來省立的高中職省立高中職現在是國立高中職是中央在負擔縱使直轄市它有一些是變成市立但是還是中央在補助那還有一個是勞健保的一個補助 榮保\n299986\t307042\t劳健保 劳容津贴那这些都必须要相关修相关的作用所以你们有修法的信单出来了吗\n308494\t337714\t這個部分修法的部分還必須要各部會來提出但是目前光是以一般性補助屬於縣市應辦的事項要回歸就碰到很大的阻礙所以這個要修法的部分我也請這個我們財政部我們主計處要趕快要整理出來因為我們有跟外界講說我們希望說市權財權能夠分清楚但是有一些是屬於地方那屬於地方的又必須要經過修法\n338334\t344917\t才能夠移轉給他們 不需要所以地方應辦的事項我們透過一般性補助 透過計劃我剛剛講的那些法對 剛剛那些法必須透過修法所以這個部分是國發會事權的部分是國發會在負責國發會現在都已經在則曾在檢討說哪些一個事權必須要修法的那這個清單大概哪時候會確定勒\n362146\t386849\t這個部分國化會已經在進行中了我同樣在強調我們時間不多了我覺得這個東西如果我們要跟大家講就是說有一些必須要移轉到這個地方但是必須要修法的我覺得那個清單你要趕快出來那剛有些就是說不需要修法就是說按照我們這個地方制度法第18條第19條規定有些教育文化社會福利水利道路交通事項\n387429\t405463\t是属于县市政府的自治事项按照统法70条的规定应该以其自有的裁员优先编列预算的资应那这部分的话就不用修法了是这部分是不需要修法直接回归由县市的一个所获得的统筹分配税来资应即可\n405663\t422613\t但是要講清楚因為之前就發生了說那為什麼這個冷氣以前就是由中央來出的那現在由地方來出或是說這個營養午餐以前中央出的為什麼現在由地方來出要講清楚啊那講不清楚的話變成中央又挨打就是說你看嘛\n423673\t441410\t至少我知道的水電費學校的午餐費國產可溯源的食材冷氣費維護費這些等等這些有一些按照地方知識事項的它就必須要回歸到地方來做處理但是我沒有講清楚\n442691\t456298\t或是說外界不知道或是各個縣市政府他們可能也都知道了也應該都知道了但是他就不管你反正我就先跟你吵就是說這本來應該中央出的那為什麼後來變成地方要出了然後變成地方政府的首長\n457879\t478954\t又自己做紅包做這個善苔童子就說沒關係中央不出我地方來出就變成這樣子你知道嗎我們應該說應該是由地方來出的那結果地方就說你看中央都不出然後後來就說沒關係我自己地方可以來出因為現在地方錢比較多了本來就可以來出所以我覺得這部分主席總署要說清楚\n479514\t479874\t主席長我跟妳講\n498630\t519942\t縣市政府他們知道他們的這個主席財政都知道但是這是一個政治的一個議題這不是說他們知道我跟你講有些縣市首長他就是知道他一樣跟你講說為什麼以前是中央出的現在變地方出了所以我們要先講要先跟大家講清楚就是說那為什麼現在以前由中央出中央出也不是這個義務要出的\n520862\t538717\t中央是認為說地方錢不夠中央來出那可是按照這個地方制度法相關的規定本來就應該有地方來出嘛那現在如果地方有這個錢的地方來出是合理啊對不對我覺得這個已經挨了好幾次悶棍了這個中央政府要學乖啦那我最後請教一下這個我們物價\n539958\t558021\t雖然我看你們的物價統計CPI一到九月較去年同期漲了1.77%但是我們的核心的CPI漲得比較多我們至少每個月購買一次者上漲2.74%就包含蘇國外食醫療費用的漲幅這個民眾會覺得說\n566653\t585684\t我們現在的物價真的是偏高就我們自己在外面不論是外食或是說是買東西或吃東西等等之類的這個感覺上物價沒有像我們數字報告上面的好像說一點多而已好像也沒有到百分之二的警戒值\n586184\t603920\t那这个部分我要请这个主席总书可能你们要稍微就是考量一下当然我知道说你们有针对一些重要的民生物价你们有做一些对 我们有公布有公布啦比如说可是我看外食的费用啦什么猪肉的费用啦水果水果的费用啦\n604860\t630323\t这10个月来每个月都增加这对于老百姓来讲是一个很大的负担但是它已经逐渐在回稳当中像去年的话一般石油还有一些原物料它是高涨但是今年都回稳逐渐降低很多像水果蔬菜是受台风或灾害的影响最大它也会逐渐回稳\n631164\t646701\t主席長 數字看起來好像回穩但是對於民眾的心理感受來講物價是偏高的目前是 外食會是偏高的對啊 這個我們自己要注意一下就是不要數字跟民眾的心理感受偏差太遠是 是 OK好 謝謝 謝謝主席長\n","txt":"謝謝主席我們請陳主席長有請陳主席長委員好主席長好請教一下主席長因為去年底在野黨倉促修法這個財化法造成了許多的問題那現在除了說有關這個公視的錯誤在野黨他們自己會提修法之外那這兩天我也聽到我們卓院長講未來行政院會提出自己版本的財化法嗎\n是原則上財政部目前已經都在研擬當中那國發會也針對一般補助和計劃性補助的相關的一個事權一直在檢討所以這個部分我們也都參與在討論那這個部分近期財政部希望說跟縣市再討論再召開縣市來做一個討論然後之後再來做一個決定\n不過主席長我跟你講這會有時間上的壓力就是說你可能沒辦法就是說還有很充裕的時間再找各個縣市再來討論這個才化法因為現在在野黨他們也會再提自己的才化法的版本出來\n如果按照这个他们现在要提的这个财务法的版本就是他们在这个给各县市的这个一般性的补助款不得低于前一年的金额然后呢计划型的补助款的补助比率呢不得低于过去十年同财力及次的县市还有同类型计划的平均值那今天下午可能超越协商就会讨论所以我跟你讲我们这个要提出我们自己的原版的财务法\n直接上面有壓力啊那如果按照這一檔他們所提出來的才華法的話會產生什麼樣的問題因為這執行上是有困難的因為像計劃型的補助是根據各縣市的一個需求然後它是有變動因為執行譬如說有的執行兩年一年之後它這計畫就不執行就要換新的計畫所以沒有辦法說保持一定的額度各縣市保持一定的額度而是必須要看\n各縣市實際的需求然後還包括各縣市的財力的一個分級狀況來做分配那以財化法之後呢它整個一個財力分級是已經改變了是沒有辦法維持去年或是以前10年舊的財化法分配的一個額度所以這個部分都必須要做重新的一個修正尤其你計劃的部分維持不變的額度\n各縣是維持不變額度這是實際上是有困難的所以實際上我跟你講就是說會遇到在野黨他們如果再提出版本的話那就會產生一些新的問題所以我才說我們不論是財政部或是主計處我們對於這個願版的財化法其實沒有很多的時間可以再慢慢的琢磨可能就必須要在這個短的時間裡面\n要我們自己一個願版要提出來我們才有辦法跟外界來討論不然就會變成只有在野黨的版本那在野黨版本就像剛剛竹記長所講的還是會有問題不論是他們這個一般性的補助款或是計畫性補助款的那個比例還是會產生問題所以我是先跟竹記長講這個現在是10月底了這個我們自己願版的版本可能在11月份左右我覺得大概要準備了\n有這個部分財政部都已經在充分的一個研究所以這個本身的一個他的一個提出的一個實證這個部分我們會回去轉告就是院裡頭請他這個部分是不是能夠加快我覺得不會留太多時間給我們那再請教一下主計長你剛有提到就是說因為我們希望說財權跟市權在這個懲罰法的劃分之下能夠做這一個適當的移轉\n但是有一些就像你講的必須要修法我請教你就是說我們有關基本財政收支短差部分我們說要回歸給地方指引譬如說像農保、老農津貼、國民年金等等這些要不要修法\n要修法對啊 那如果說我們希望說財權跟事權那能夠劃分有些是屬於地方的希望回歸到地方但是你們有去了解或去統整的到底修法的這個有哪一些法律條文必須要做修改咧\n現在原則上原來省政府的部分是11%原來縣政府的部分是4%所以整個財源移出15%那省政府的市權包括原來省立的高中職省立高中職現在是國立高中職是中央在負擔縱使直轄市它有一些是變成市立但是還是中央在補助那還有一個是勞健保的一個補助 榮保\n劳健保 劳容津贴那这些都必须要相关修相关的作用所以你们有修法的信单出来了吗\n這個部分修法的部分還必須要各部會來提出但是目前光是以一般性補助屬於縣市應辦的事項要回歸就碰到很大的阻礙所以這個要修法的部分我也請這個我們財政部我們主計處要趕快要整理出來因為我們有跟外界講說我們希望說市權財權能夠分清楚但是有一些是屬於地方那屬於地方的又必須要經過修法\n才能夠移轉給他們 不需要所以地方應辦的事項我們透過一般性補助 透過計劃我剛剛講的那些法對 剛剛那些法必須透過修法所以這個部分是國發會事權的部分是國發會在負責國發會現在都已經在則曾在檢討說哪些一個事權必須要修法的那這個清單大概哪時候會確定勒\n這個部分國化會已經在進行中了我同樣在強調我們時間不多了我覺得這個東西如果我們要跟大家講就是說有一些必須要移轉到這個地方但是必須要修法的我覺得那個清單你要趕快出來那剛有些就是說不需要修法就是說按照我們這個地方制度法第18條第19條規定有些教育文化社會福利水利道路交通事項\n是属于县市政府的自治事项按照统法70条的规定应该以其自有的裁员优先编列预算的资应那这部分的话就不用修法了是这部分是不需要修法直接回归由县市的一个所获得的统筹分配税来资应即可\n但是要講清楚因為之前就發生了說那為什麼這個冷氣以前就是由中央來出的那現在由地方來出或是說這個營養午餐以前中央出的為什麼現在由地方來出要講清楚啊那講不清楚的話變成中央又挨打就是說你看嘛\n至少我知道的水電費學校的午餐費國產可溯源的食材冷氣費維護費這些等等這些有一些按照地方知識事項的它就必須要回歸到地方來做處理但是我沒有講清楚\n或是說外界不知道或是各個縣市政府他們可能也都知道了也應該都知道了但是他就不管你反正我就先跟你吵就是說這本來應該中央出的那為什麼後來變成地方要出了然後變成地方政府的首長\n又自己做紅包做這個善苔童子就說沒關係中央不出我地方來出就變成這樣子你知道嗎我們應該說應該是由地方來出的那結果地方就說你看中央都不出然後後來就說沒關係我自己地方可以來出因為現在地方錢比較多了本來就可以來出所以我覺得這部分主席總署要說清楚\n主席長我跟妳講\n縣市政府他們知道他們的這個主席財政都知道但是這是一個政治的一個議題這不是說他們知道我跟你講有些縣市首長他就是知道他一樣跟你講說為什麼以前是中央出的現在變地方出了所以我們要先講要先跟大家講清楚就是說那為什麼現在以前由中央出中央出也不是這個義務要出的\n中央是認為說地方錢不夠中央來出那可是按照這個地方制度法相關的規定本來就應該有地方來出嘛那現在如果地方有這個錢的地方來出是合理啊對不對我覺得這個已經挨了好幾次悶棍了這個中央政府要學乖啦那我最後請教一下這個我們物價\n雖然我看你們的物價統計CPI一到九月較去年同期漲了1.77%但是我們的核心的CPI漲得比較多我們至少每個月購買一次者上漲2.74%就包含蘇國外食醫療費用的漲幅這個民眾會覺得說\n我們現在的物價真的是偏高就我們自己在外面不論是外食或是說是買東西或吃東西等等之類的這個感覺上物價沒有像我們數字報告上面的好像說一點多而已好像也沒有到百分之二的警戒值\n那这个部分我要请这个主席总书可能你们要稍微就是考量一下当然我知道说你们有针对一些重要的民生物价你们有做一些对 我们有公布有公布啦比如说可是我看外食的费用啦什么猪肉的费用啦水果水果的费用啦\n这10个月来每个月都增加这对于老百姓来讲是一个很大的负担但是它已经逐渐在回稳当中像去年的话一般石油还有一些原物料它是高涨但是今年都回稳逐渐降低很多像水果蔬菜是受台风或灾害的影响最大它也会逐渐回稳\n主席長 數字看起來好像回穩但是對於民眾的心理感受來講物價是偏高的目前是 外食會是偏高的對啊 這個我們自己要注意一下就是不要數字跟民眾的心理感受偏差太遠是 是 OK好 謝謝 謝謝主席長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.734 --> 00:09.798\n謝謝主席我們請陳主席長有請陳主席長委員好主席長好請教一下主席長因為去年底在野黨倉促修法這個財化法造成了許多的問題那現在除了說有關這個公視的錯誤在野黨他們自己會提修法之外那這兩天我也聽到我們卓院長講未來行政院會提出自己版本的財化法嗎\n\n00:34.525 --> 00:54.965\n是原則上財政部目前已經都在研擬當中那國發會也針對一般補助和計劃性補助的相關的一個事權一直在檢討所以這個部分我們也都參與在討論那這個部分近期財政部希望說跟縣市再討論再召開縣市來做一個討論然後之後再來做一個決定\n\n00:57.888 --> 01:13.419\n不過主席長我跟你講這會有時間上的壓力就是說你可能沒辦法就是說還有很充裕的時間再找各個縣市再來討論這個才化法因為現在在野黨他們也會再提自己的才化法的版本出來\n\n01:14.560 --> 01:44.020\n如果按照这个他们现在要提的这个财务法的版本就是他们在这个给各县市的这个一般性的补助款不得低于前一年的金额然后呢计划型的补助款的补助比率呢不得低于过去十年同财力及次的县市还有同类型计划的平均值那今天下午可能超越协商就会讨论所以我跟你讲我们这个要提出我们自己的原版的财务法\n\n01:44.840 --> 02:09.818\n直接上面有壓力啊那如果按照這一檔他們所提出來的才華法的話會產生什麼樣的問題因為這執行上是有困難的因為像計劃型的補助是根據各縣市的一個需求然後它是有變動因為執行譬如說有的執行兩年一年之後它這計畫就不執行就要換新的計畫所以沒有辦法說保持一定的額度各縣市保持一定的額度而是必須要看\n\n02:10.518 --> 02:34.653\n各縣市實際的需求然後還包括各縣市的財力的一個分級狀況來做分配那以財化法之後呢它整個一個財力分級是已經改變了是沒有辦法維持去年或是以前10年舊的財化法分配的一個額度所以這個部分都必須要做重新的一個修正尤其你計劃的部分維持不變的額度\n\n02:37.074 --> 02:44.900\n各縣是維持不變額度這是實際上是有困難的所以實際上我跟你講就是說會遇到在野黨他們如果再提出版本的話那就會產生一些新的問題所以我才說我們不論是財政部或是主計處我們對於這個願版的財化法其實沒有很多的時間可以再慢慢的琢磨可能就必須要在這個短的時間裡面\n\n03:03.553 --> 03:30.564\n要我們自己一個願版要提出來我們才有辦法跟外界來討論不然就會變成只有在野黨的版本那在野黨版本就像剛剛竹記長所講的還是會有問題不論是他們這個一般性的補助款或是計畫性補助款的那個比例還是會產生問題所以我是先跟竹記長講這個現在是10月底了這個我們自己願版的版本可能在11月份左右我覺得大概要準備了\n\n03:31.364 --> 03:48.398\n有這個部分財政部都已經在充分的一個研究所以這個本身的一個他的一個提出的一個實證這個部分我們會回去轉告就是院裡頭請他這個部分是不是能夠加快我覺得不會留太多時間給我們那再請教一下主計長你剛有提到就是說因為我們希望說財權跟市權在這個懲罰法的劃分之下能夠做這一個適當的移轉\n\n03:58.746 --> 04:14.528\n但是有一些就像你講的必須要修法我請教你就是說我們有關基本財政收支短差部分我們說要回歸給地方指引譬如說像農保、老農津貼、國民年金等等這些要不要修法\n\n04:15.103 --> 04:30.802\n要修法對啊那如果說我們希望說財權跟事權那能夠劃分有些是屬於地方的希望回歸到地方但是你們有去了解或去統整的到底修法的這個有哪一些法律條文必須要做修改咧\n\n04:31.903 --> 04:59.225\n現在原則上原來省政府的部分是11%原來縣政府的部分是4%所以整個財源移出15%那省政府的市權包括原來省立的高中職省立高中職現在是國立高中職是中央在負擔縱使直轄市它有一些是變成市立但是還是中央在補助那還有一個是勞健保的一個補助榮保\n\n04:59.986 --> 05:07.042\n劳健保劳容津贴那这些都必须要相关修相关的作用所以你们有修法的信单出来了吗\n\n05:08.494 --> 05:37.714\n這個部分修法的部分還必須要各部會來提出但是目前光是以一般性補助屬於縣市應辦的事項要回歸就碰到很大的阻礙所以這個要修法的部分我也請這個我們財政部我們主計處要趕快要整理出來因為我們有跟外界講說我們希望說市權財權能夠分清楚但是有一些是屬於地方那屬於地方的又必須要經過修法\n\n05:38.334 --> 05:44.917\n才能夠移轉給他們不需要所以地方應辦的事項我們透過一般性補助透過計劃我剛剛講的那些法對剛剛那些法必須透過修法所以這個部分是國發會事權的部分是國發會在負責國發會現在都已經在則曾在檢討說哪些一個事權必須要修法的那這個清單大概哪時候會確定勒\n\n06:02.146 --> 06:26.849\n這個部分國化會已經在進行中了我同樣在強調我們時間不多了我覺得這個東西如果我們要跟大家講就是說有一些必須要移轉到這個地方但是必須要修法的我覺得那個清單你要趕快出來那剛有些就是說不需要修法就是說按照我們這個地方制度法第18條第19條規定有些教育文化社會福利水利道路交通事項\n\n06:27.429 --> 06:45.463\n是属于县市政府的自治事项按照统法70条的规定应该以其自有的裁员优先编列预算的资应那这部分的话就不用修法了是这部分是不需要修法直接回归由县市的一个所获得的统筹分配税来资应即可\n\n06:45.663 --> 07:02.613\n但是要講清楚因為之前就發生了說那為什麼這個冷氣以前就是由中央來出的那現在由地方來出或是說這個營養午餐以前中央出的為什麼現在由地方來出要講清楚啊那講不清楚的話變成中央又挨打就是說你看嘛\n\n07:03.673 --> 07:21.410\n至少我知道的水電費學校的午餐費國產可溯源的食材冷氣費維護費這些等等這些有一些按照地方知識事項的它就必須要回歸到地方來做處理但是我沒有講清楚\n\n07:22.691 --> 07:36.298\n或是說外界不知道或是各個縣市政府他們可能也都知道了也應該都知道了但是他就不管你反正我就先跟你吵就是說這本來應該中央出的那為什麼後來變成地方要出了然後變成地方政府的首長\n\n07:37.879 --> 07:58.954\n又自己做紅包做這個善苔童子就說沒關係中央不出我地方來出就變成這樣子你知道嗎我們應該說應該是由地方來出的那結果地方就說你看中央都不出然後後來就說沒關係我自己地方可以來出因為現在地方錢比較多了本來就可以來出所以我覺得這部分主席總署要說清楚\n\n07:59.514 --> 07:59.874\n主席長我跟妳講\n\n08:18.630 --> 08:39.942\n縣市政府他們知道他們的這個主席財政都知道但是這是一個政治的一個議題這不是說他們知道我跟你講有些縣市首長他就是知道他一樣跟你講說為什麼以前是中央出的現在變地方出了所以我們要先講要先跟大家講清楚就是說那為什麼現在以前由中央出中央出也不是這個義務要出的\n\n08:40.862 --> 08:58.717\n中央是認為說地方錢不夠中央來出那可是按照這個地方制度法相關的規定本來就應該有地方來出嘛那現在如果地方有這個錢的地方來出是合理啊對不對我覺得這個已經挨了好幾次悶棍了這個中央政府要學乖啦那我最後請教一下這個我們物價\n\n08:59.958 --> 09:18.021\n雖然我看你們的物價統計CPI一到九月較去年同期漲了1.77%但是我們的核心的CPI漲得比較多我們至少每個月購買一次者上漲2.74%就包含蘇國外食醫療費用的漲幅這個民眾會覺得說\n\n09:26.653 --> 09:45.684\n我們現在的物價真的是偏高就我們自己在外面不論是外食或是說是買東西或吃東西等等之類的這個感覺上物價沒有像我們數字報告上面的好像說一點多而已好像也沒有到百分之二的警戒值\n\n09:46.184 --> 10:03.920\n那这个部分我要请这个主席总书可能你们要稍微就是考量一下当然我知道说你们有针对一些重要的民生物价你们有做一些对我们有公布有公布啦比如说可是我看外食的费用啦什么猪肉的费用啦水果水果的费用啦\n\n10:04.860 --> 10:30.323\n这10个月来每个月都增加这对于老百姓来讲是一个很大的负担但是它已经逐渐在回稳当中像去年的话一般石油还有一些原物料它是高涨但是今年都回稳逐渐降低很多像水果蔬菜是受台风或灾害的影响最大它也会逐渐回稳\n\n10:31.164 --> 10:46.701\n主席長數字看起來好像回穩但是對於民眾的心理感受來講物價是偏高的目前是外食會是偏高的對啊這個我們自己要注意一下就是不要數字跟民眾的心理感受偏差太遠是是OK好謝謝謝謝主席長\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.734,"end":9.798,"text":"謝謝主席我們請陳主席長有請陳主席長委員好主席長好請教一下主席長因為去年底在野黨倉促修法這個財化法造成了許多的問題那現在除了說有關這個公視的錯誤在野黨他們自己會提修法之外那這兩天我也聽到我們卓院長講未來行政院會提出自己版本的財化法嗎"},{"start":34.525,"end":54.965,"text":"是原則上財政部目前已經都在研擬當中那國發會也針對一般補助和計劃性補助的相關的一個事權一直在檢討所以這個部分我們也都參與在討論那這個部分近期財政部希望說跟縣市再討論再召開縣市來做一個討論然後之後再來做一個決定"},{"start":57.888,"end":73.419,"text":"不過主席長我跟你講這會有時間上的壓力就是說你可能沒辦法就是說還有很充裕的時間再找各個縣市再來討論這個才化法因為現在在野黨他們也會再提自己的才化法的版本出來"},{"start":74.56,"end":104.02,"text":"如果按照这个他们现在要提的这个财务法的版本就是他们在这个给各县市的这个一般性的补助款不得低于前一年的金额然后呢计划型的补助款的补助比率呢不得低于过去十年同财力及次的县市还有同类型计划的平均值那今天下午可能超越协商就会讨论所以我跟你讲我们这个要提出我们自己的原版的财务法"},{"start":104.84,"end":129.818,"text":"直接上面有壓力啊那如果按照這一檔他們所提出來的才華法的話會產生什麼樣的問題因為這執行上是有困難的因為像計劃型的補助是根據各縣市的一個需求然後它是有變動因為執行譬如說有的執行兩年一年之後它這計畫就不執行就要換新的計畫所以沒有辦法說保持一定的額度各縣市保持一定的額度而是必須要看"},{"start":130.518,"end":154.653,"text":"各縣市實際的需求然後還包括各縣市的財力的一個分級狀況來做分配那以財化法之後呢它整個一個財力分級是已經改變了是沒有辦法維持去年或是以前10年舊的財化法分配的一個額度所以這個部分都必須要做重新的一個修正尤其你計劃的部分維持不變的額度"},{"start":157.074,"end":164.9,"text":"各縣是維持不變額度這是實際上是有困難的所以實際上我跟你講就是說會遇到在野黨他們如果再提出版本的話那就會產生一些新的問題所以我才說我們不論是財政部或是主計處我們對於這個願版的財化法其實沒有很多的時間可以再慢慢的琢磨可能就必須要在這個短的時間裡面"},{"start":183.553,"end":210.564,"text":"要我們自己一個願版要提出來我們才有辦法跟外界來討論不然就會變成只有在野黨的版本那在野黨版本就像剛剛竹記長所講的還是會有問題不論是他們這個一般性的補助款或是計畫性補助款的那個比例還是會產生問題所以我是先跟竹記長講這個現在是10月底了這個我們自己願版的版本可能在11月份左右我覺得大概要準備了"},{"start":211.364,"end":228.398,"text":"有這個部分財政部都已經在充分的一個研究所以這個本身的一個他的一個提出的一個實證這個部分我們會回去轉告就是院裡頭請他這個部分是不是能夠加快我覺得不會留太多時間給我們那再請教一下主計長你剛有提到就是說因為我們希望說財權跟市權在這個懲罰法的劃分之下能夠做這一個適當的移轉"},{"start":238.746,"end":254.528,"text":"但是有一些就像你講的必須要修法我請教你就是說我們有關基本財政收支短差部分我們說要回歸給地方指引譬如說像農保、老農津貼、國民年金等等這些要不要修法"},{"start":255.103,"end":270.802,"text":"要修法對啊 那如果說我們希望說財權跟事權那能夠劃分有些是屬於地方的希望回歸到地方但是你們有去了解或去統整的到底修法的這個有哪一些法律條文必須要做修改咧"},{"start":271.903,"end":299.225,"text":"現在原則上原來省政府的部分是11%原來縣政府的部分是4%所以整個財源移出15%那省政府的市權包括原來省立的高中職省立高中職現在是國立高中職是中央在負擔縱使直轄市它有一些是變成市立但是還是中央在補助那還有一個是勞健保的一個補助 榮保"},{"start":299.986,"end":307.042,"text":"劳健保 劳容津贴那这些都必须要相关修相关的作用所以你们有修法的信单出来了吗"},{"start":308.494,"end":337.714,"text":"這個部分修法的部分還必須要各部會來提出但是目前光是以一般性補助屬於縣市應辦的事項要回歸就碰到很大的阻礙所以這個要修法的部分我也請這個我們財政部我們主計處要趕快要整理出來因為我們有跟外界講說我們希望說市權財權能夠分清楚但是有一些是屬於地方那屬於地方的又必須要經過修法"},{"start":338.334,"end":344.917,"text":"才能夠移轉給他們 不需要所以地方應辦的事項我們透過一般性補助 透過計劃我剛剛講的那些法對 剛剛那些法必須透過修法所以這個部分是國發會事權的部分是國發會在負責國發會現在都已經在則曾在檢討說哪些一個事權必須要修法的那這個清單大概哪時候會確定勒"},{"start":362.146,"end":386.849,"text":"這個部分國化會已經在進行中了我同樣在強調我們時間不多了我覺得這個東西如果我們要跟大家講就是說有一些必須要移轉到這個地方但是必須要修法的我覺得那個清單你要趕快出來那剛有些就是說不需要修法就是說按照我們這個地方制度法第18條第19條規定有些教育文化社會福利水利道路交通事項"},{"start":387.429,"end":405.463,"text":"是属于县市政府的自治事项按照统法70条的规定应该以其自有的裁员优先编列预算的资应那这部分的话就不用修法了是这部分是不需要修法直接回归由县市的一个所获得的统筹分配税来资应即可"},{"start":405.663,"end":422.613,"text":"但是要講清楚因為之前就發生了說那為什麼這個冷氣以前就是由中央來出的那現在由地方來出或是說這個營養午餐以前中央出的為什麼現在由地方來出要講清楚啊那講不清楚的話變成中央又挨打就是說你看嘛"},{"start":423.673,"end":441.41,"text":"至少我知道的水電費學校的午餐費國產可溯源的食材冷氣費維護費這些等等這些有一些按照地方知識事項的它就必須要回歸到地方來做處理但是我沒有講清楚"},{"start":442.691,"end":456.298,"text":"或是說外界不知道或是各個縣市政府他們可能也都知道了也應該都知道了但是他就不管你反正我就先跟你吵就是說這本來應該中央出的那為什麼後來變成地方要出了然後變成地方政府的首長"},{"start":457.879,"end":478.954,"text":"又自己做紅包做這個善苔童子就說沒關係中央不出我地方來出就變成這樣子你知道嗎我們應該說應該是由地方來出的那結果地方就說你看中央都不出然後後來就說沒關係我自己地方可以來出因為現在地方錢比較多了本來就可以來出所以我覺得這部分主席總署要說清楚"},{"start":479.514,"end":479.874,"text":"主席長我跟妳講"},{"start":498.63,"end":519.942,"text":"縣市政府他們知道他們的這個主席財政都知道但是這是一個政治的一個議題這不是說他們知道我跟你講有些縣市首長他就是知道他一樣跟你講說為什麼以前是中央出的現在變地方出了所以我們要先講要先跟大家講清楚就是說那為什麼現在以前由中央出中央出也不是這個義務要出的"},{"start":520.862,"end":538.717,"text":"中央是認為說地方錢不夠中央來出那可是按照這個地方制度法相關的規定本來就應該有地方來出嘛那現在如果地方有這個錢的地方來出是合理啊對不對我覺得這個已經挨了好幾次悶棍了這個中央政府要學乖啦那我最後請教一下這個我們物價"},{"start":539.958,"end":558.021,"text":"雖然我看你們的物價統計CPI一到九月較去年同期漲了1.77%但是我們的核心的CPI漲得比較多我們至少每個月購買一次者上漲2.74%就包含蘇國外食醫療費用的漲幅這個民眾會覺得說"},{"start":566.653,"end":585.684,"text":"我們現在的物價真的是偏高就我們自己在外面不論是外食或是說是買東西或吃東西等等之類的這個感覺上物價沒有像我們數字報告上面的好像說一點多而已好像也沒有到百分之二的警戒值"},{"start":586.184,"end":603.92,"text":"那这个部分我要请这个主席总书可能你们要稍微就是考量一下当然我知道说你们有针对一些重要的民生物价你们有做一些对 我们有公布有公布啦比如说可是我看外食的费用啦什么猪肉的费用啦水果水果的费用啦"},{"start":604.86,"end":630.323,"text":"这10个月来每个月都增加这对于老百姓来讲是一个很大的负担但是它已经逐渐在回稳当中像去年的话一般石油还有一些原物料它是高涨但是今年都回稳逐渐降低很多像水果蔬菜是受台风或灾害的影响最大它也会逐渐回稳"},{"start":631.164,"end":646.701,"text":"主席長 數字看起來好像回穩但是對於民眾的心理感受來講物價是偏高的目前是 外食會是偏高的對啊 這個我們自己要注意一下就是不要數字跟民眾的心理感受偏差太遠是 是 OK好 謝謝 謝謝主席長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":610,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（10時41分）謝謝主席。請陳主計長。"],["主席：有請陳主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：主計長好。請教一下主計長，因為去年底在野黨倉促修法財劃法造成了許多的問題，現在除了有公式的錯誤在野黨他們自己會提修法之外，這兩天我也聽到卓院長講，未來行政院會提出自己版本的財劃法嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，原則上財政部目前已經都在研擬當中，國發會也針對一般補助和計畫型補助相關的事權一直在檢討，這個部分我們也都參與、在討論，近期財政部希望跟縣市再討論，討論之後再來做決定。"],["李委員坤城：主計長，我跟你講，這會有時間上的壓力。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員坤城：你可能沒辦法還有很充裕的時間找各個縣市再來討論財劃法，因為現在在野黨他們也會再提自己財劃法的版本出來。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員坤城：如果按照他們現在要提財劃法的版本，他們在給各縣市的一般性補助款，不得低於前一年的金額，然後計畫型補助款的補助比率，不得低於過去十年同財力級次的縣市，還有同類型計畫的平均值。今天下午可能朝野協商就會討論，所以我跟你講，我們要提出自己院版的財劃法時間上面會有壓力，如果按照在野黨他們所提出來的財劃法的話，會產生什麼樣的問題？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這執行上是有困難的，因為像計畫型的補助根據各縣市的需求是有變動，譬如說，有的執行兩年、一年之後這計畫就不執行，就要換新的計畫，所以沒有辦法保持一定的額度，各縣市保持一定的額度，而是必須要看各縣市實際的需求，然後還包括各縣市財力的分級狀況來分配，財劃法之後整個財力分級是已經改變，沒有辦法維持去年或是以前十年舊的財劃法分配的額度，所以這個部分都必須要重新修正，尤其計畫的部分維持不變的額度、各縣市維持不變的額度，這在實行上是有困難的。"],["李委員坤城：對，所以實際上我跟你講，在野黨他們如果再提出版本的話，就會產生一些新的問題嘛！"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員坤城：所以我才說，不論是財政部或是主計總處，對於院版的財劃法，其實沒有很多的時間可以再慢慢地著墨，可能就必須在短的時間裡面，要有自己的院版要提出來，才有辦法跟外界討論，不然就會變成只有在野黨的版本，那在野黨版本就像剛剛主計長所講的，還是會有問題，不論是他們一般性補助款或是計畫性補助款的比例，還是會產生問題，所以我先跟主計長講，現在是10月底了，我們自己院版的版本可能在11月份左右，我覺得大概要有準備了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：有，這個部分財政部都已經充分地研究，所以本身提出時程的部分我們會回去轉告，請院裡頭針對這部分看是不是能夠加快。"],["李委員坤城：我覺得不會留太多時間給我們。再請教一下，主計長你剛剛有提到，因為我們希望財權跟事權在財劃法的劃分之下，能夠做適當的移轉，但是有一些就像你講的必須要修法。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["李委員坤城：我請教你，有關基本財政收支短差部分，我們說要回歸給地方支應，比如像農保、老農津貼、國民年金等等，這些要不要修法？"],["陳主計長淑姿：要修法。"],["李委員坤城：對啊，如果我們希望財權跟事權能夠劃分，有些是屬於地方的，希望回歸到地方，但是你們有去了解或統整到底有哪些法律條文必須要修改？"],["陳主計長淑姿：現在原則上……原來省政府的部分是11%，原來縣政府的部分是4%，所以整個財源移出15%，那省政府的事權，包括原來省立的高中職，省立高中職現在是國立高中職，這部分是中央在負擔，縱使直轄市有一些學校變成市立，但還是中央在補助；還有一個是勞健保的補助，包含農保、勞健保、老農津貼，這些都必須要修相關的作用法。"],["李委員坤城：你們有修法的清單出來了嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：修法的部分，還必須要各部會來提出，但是目前光是以一般性補助來說，屬於縣市應辦的事項要回歸就碰到很大的阻礙。"],["李委員坤城：對啊，所以要修法的部分，我也請財政部、主計總處要趕快整理出來，因為我們有跟外界講說我們希望事權、財權能夠分清楚，但是有一些是屬於地方，那屬於地方的部分，必須要經過修法才能夠移轉給他們。"],["陳主計長淑姿：不需要，屬於地方應辦的事項，我們透過一般性補助、透過計畫型……"],["李委員坤城：沒有，我剛才講那些法……"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，剛剛那些法必須透過修法，所以事權的部分是國發會在負責，國發會現在都已經責成、在檢討哪些事權是必須要修法、必須要檢討的。"],["李委員坤城：那這個清單大概哪時候會確定？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分國發會已經在進行中。"],["李委員坤城：我同樣再強調，我們時間不多了，我覺得這個東西，如果我們要跟大家講有一些必須要移轉到地方，但是必須要修法的，我覺得那個清單也要趕快出來。"],["陳主計長淑姿：好。"],["李委員坤城：剛才有一些不需要修法的，也就是說，按照我們地方制度法第十八條、第十九條規定，包含教育文化、社會福利、水利、道路、交通事項等，是屬於縣市政府的自治事項，按照同法第七十條的規定，應該以其自有的財源優先編列預算來支應，這個部分就不用修法了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，這部分不需要修法，直接回歸由縣市所獲得的統籌分配稅來支應即可。"],["李委員坤城：但是要講清楚，因為之前就發生過說為什麼冷氣以前由中央出的，現在卻由地方來出？或是營養午餐以前中央出的，為什麼現在由地方來出？所以要講清楚，講不清楚的話，變成中央又要挨打。你看，至少我知道的有水電費、學校的午餐費、國產可溯源的食材、冷氣費、維護費這些等等，有一些按照地方自治事項的就必須要回歸到地方來處理，但是我們沒有講清楚、或是外界不知道、或是各個縣市政府，他們可能也應該都知道了，但是他就不管你，反正我就先跟你吵，說這些本來應該由中央出的，那為什麼後來變成地方要出了？變成地方政府首長自己又做紅包、做散財童子說沒關係，中央不出、我地方來出！現在就變成這樣子，你知道嗎？應該是由地方來出的，結果地方就說你看！中央都不出，後來就說沒關係，我自己地方可以來出。因為現在地方錢比較多了嘛，本來就可以來出啊！所以我覺得這部分，主計總處要說清楚。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們有召開地方政府的會議，請相關的財政和主計人員來開會，連續開了3次會，同時也行文給各縣市政府告知他說哪一些部分是要回歸、哪一些部分是屬於保留。"],["李委員坤城：主計長，我跟你講，縣市政府他們知道，他們的主計、財政都知道，但這是一個政治的議題，這不是說他們知道，我跟你講，有些縣市首長就是知道，但他一樣跟你講說，為什麼以前是中央出的，現在變地方出了？所以我們要先跟大家講清楚，就是為什麼以前由中央出……中央也不是義務要出的，中央是認為說地方錢不夠，中央來出，可是按照地方制度法相關的規定，本來就應該由地方來出嘛！現在如果地方有這個錢了，由地方來出，合理啊！對不對？我覺得這件事已經挨了好幾次悶棍了，中央政府要學乖。","我最後請教一下物價的部分，雖然我看你們物價統計，CPI自1月到9月較去年同期漲了1.77%，我們核心CPI漲得比較多，至少每個月購買一次者上漲2.74%，包含蔬果、外食、醫療費用的漲幅，民眾會覺得我們現在的物價真的是偏高，我們自己在外面不論是外食、買東西或吃東西等等之類的，感覺上，物價沒有像我們報告上的數字說好像百分之一點多而已，沒有到2%的警戒值。這個部分，我要請主計總處，可能你們要稍微考量一下，當然我知道你們有針對一些重要的民生物價，你們有做一些公布。"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，我們有公布。"],["李委員坤城：可是我看外食的費用、豬肉的費用、水果的費用，這10個月來每個月都增加。"],["陳主計長淑姿：對，外食、豬肉、水果、蔬菜。"],["李委員坤城：這對老百姓來講是很大的負擔。"],["陳主計長淑姿：但是它已經逐漸在回穩當中，像去年，一般石油還有一些原物料高漲，但是今年都回穩，逐漸降低很多；像水果、蔬菜是受颱風或災害的影響最大，它也會逐漸回穩。"],["李委員坤城：主計長，數字看起來好像回穩，但是對於民眾心裡的感受來講，物價是偏高的。"],["陳主計長淑姿：目前外食會偏高。"],["李委員坤城：對啊，這個我們自己要注意一下，就是不要數字跟民眾的心裡感受偏差太遠。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，OK。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝召委、謝謝主計長。","接下來有請顏委員寬恒質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-2","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","羅明才","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","林思銘","王世堅","陳玉珍"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00003"}}}