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583.183, \"end\": 583.603, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"坐\", \"start\": 583.603, \"end\": 584.284, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 584.284, \"end\": 584.304, \"score\": 0.023}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,284 --> 00:00:26,403\n謝謝主席主席有請國安局蔡局長以及我們法務部那個法務部調查局的陳百利陳局長好兩位好謝謝主席林委員早好因為時間有限我直接就切入主題喔那就是這個過去喔我們都是擔心所謂的境外勢力包括剛剛提到的這個中國的透過境外網軍來介入國民黨在野黨黨主席的選舉喔\n\n2\n00:00:27,384 --> 00:00:44,177\n那麼其實媒體的滲透一直都存在在今年6月6號的時候王滬寧密會台灣高層這個事情也不是秘密了他還要求這個台灣的媒體對於這個促進統戰的宣傳不要做表面功夫當時我們認為說這個只是民間的媒體所以說這個我們只能請媒體自律畢竟台灣是一個言論自由的國家但是如果今天連央廣\n\n3\n00:00:53,624 --> 00:01:10,297\n也就是我們國家的廣播的這樣的一個對外宣傳都已經出現自導自演放上五星旗我想就叫兩位局長這到底是一個犯罪事件還是一個國安事件首先我想要先請呃陳局長好了局長我想這個是檢調單位正在調查當中你不用回答個案但是\n\n4\n00:01:17,902 --> 00:01:39,703\n這是不是表示在我們國家的媒體當中已經出現了這樣的一個外部勢力的滲透還是說這個只是一個不經意的犯罪行為我完全同意那個委員的看法對這應該是一個國安的議題我們應該要把它當作是一個國安的案件來看待\n\n5\n00:01:39,963 --> 00:01:59,583\n好我會特別請局長上來的原因是因為我們看到中央社有記者潛入政府的官員內閣閣員跟立法委員的家裡的地下停車場來租這個車位之後中央社的做法是把它\n\n6\n00:02:00,504 --> 00:02:02,487\n免職就是開除他啦但是央廣到目前為止只是停職這很奇怪耶就是你自己內部配合就是說有人把五星級放上去也知道就是內部員工做的了\n\n7\n00:02:15,945 --> 00:02:33,324\n但是只停職那這個會不會可能還有更糟蹋的包庇有關於案件我不會下指導棋但是我提供這個角度我希望能夠再繼續的向上追查不是只是好像這個人說了然後就好像只有他的事情\n\n8\n00:02:34,345 --> 00:02:48,970\n本案的主嫌檢察官是第一時間是有生壓但後來是交保那對那至於央廣對他們的員工要做怎麼樣的一個那個我們要尊重央廣是我尊重但是好謝謝我局長可以請回\n\n9\n00:02:50,678 --> 00:03:02,731\n那我就請就叫蔡局長像這樣的一個內部自己搞破壞而且是直接已經進入了國家的媒體當中喔這個會不會是過去我知道我們這個國安局喔都是這個所謂諮詢的機構但是會不會是因為相關的法規同樣這裡也出現所謂法規有不足之處\n\n10\n00:03:09,238 --> 00:03:23,431\n因為它已經是從內部人員來做搞破壞的動作過去之前剛剛也提到了我們有國會的助理成為共諜的案子當時在資通安全法管理第19條第一項有說公務機關必要時得\n\n11\n00:03:24,472 --> 00:03:43,220\n所屬的資通安全專職的人員進行事任性的查核言下之意就是得但不是必要這個會不會也是另外一個破洞變成是當你內部出現了外部干預把壞份子放進去把老鼠屎放進去的時候法規有不足之處\n\n12\n00:03:44,208 --> 00:04:00,866\n因為本身央廣它算是重要的關鍵基礎設施之一因為它是負責公共傳播的部分所以在案件發生之後我們也非常的重視那也有注意到兩個面向的問題一個部分是犯罪的偵查的部分那這部分剛剛陳局長已經有跟委員做說明\n\n13\n00:04:04,309 --> 00:04:26,071\n這部分所運用的法律大概是刑法的背信罪這個角度去切入至於有沒有境外勢力的介入這部分我們要再查查包括到金流或是有沒有像有一些相關的聯繫或指示的一些事證假如這方面的機證的話我們也會提供給檢調單位來了解看他的行為裡面有沒有涉及到\n\n14\n00:04:26,631 --> 00:04:52,381\n一些比較公務機密或是因為資安而造成一些相關內部資安管理或其他的危害這我們再來了解因為本席要特別提醒的就是有關於法規的不足的部分在這裡是不是也一起有關於資安的部分尤其是公務機關相關的人員的部分應該也要加強在法規上面的我們也希望就是國安局可以提供相關的單位不論是數位部或者相關單位在修法上面的更多的意見\n\n15\n00:04:54,002 --> 00:05:17,696\n好謝謝下一題我要來問的是有關於喔其實我在這個退府會的質詢的時候特別提到那就是今年7月我們講到的相關的這個國防國家安全的所謂社會防衛任性的部分的時候提到了就是有關於退府會轄下的北榮或相關的機關他們在物流的時候使用了具有疑似中資\n\n16\n00:05:19,657 --> 00:05:24,839\n這所謂資金在內的這樣的一個物流的相關的這個運輸的物流鏈喔那當時北榮的講法就是說因為他們所這個合約的藥商喔他們只打藥商之間的合約那麼沒有辦法去規定藥商使用\n\n17\n00:05:35,982 --> 00:05:44,391\n哪一個所謂物流公司但是我想這個案子發展到現在其實不是只有北榮包括台大在內我想要就教局長的事您來看這個圖我想這個圖您也不陌生這個叫做郭孔華的\n\n18\n00:05:51,118 --> 00:05:55,962\n他是除了是北京市政委委員之外中國新聞網把他認為是所謂新橋代表還說我們有責任讓外界更了解中國人民網也幫他說了他在上海累積投資高達600億元顯見這樣的人中國把他捧在首賞心而這樣的人如果他身為台灣\n\n19\n00:06:16,841 --> 00:06:28,567\n物流業當中資金的一份則重要的人士的時候在這個部分我們是不是必須要有其他的法規的修正尤其是我們也都知道如果一旦發生戰爭的時候這樣的所謂藥物的物流鏈\n\n20\n00:06:33,490 --> 00:06:51,045\n或者是甚至於所謂的這種供應鏈的部分都是非常重要的局長你怎麼來看這個議題這問題我們有在注意因為這種物流鏈它可能涉及到相關冷鏈物品藥品傳送過程當中會掌控到一些相關的物流\n\n21\n00:06:51,805 --> 00:07:06,539\n甚至也有可能這些物流業也有在我們的科學園區來針對生技業者他的相關進出運送貨物的一些細節還有接收貨物的對象可以被掌握所以我們非常的重視\n\n22\n00:07:07,179 --> 00:07:29,783\n那在處理上大概有兩個層次跟委員報告第一個是大家的資金結構有沒有涉及到中資那這個部分因為在審查的時候沒有但是我們後來有向委員所提示的這些相關的上游的資金結構的狀況我們在掌握資料之後已經有通報到經濟部那經濟部在投資審查部分可以來重新審視包括\n\n23\n00:07:30,263 --> 00:07:48,679\n是不是他在香港的母公司有所謂政協委員的這個身份那我們會請相關在台的公司來提供這種股權結構的說明這是第一部分第二部分是有涉及到假如是科學園區的部分它的業館可能有包括到是我們的國科會跟我們的衛福部\n\n24\n00:07:48,999 --> 00:08:15,045\n那這部分我們也有進行一些跨部會的協調未來怎麼樣來規範那可能涉及到外資或是中資來介入到我們這些重要的物流業那假如是外資的話即使是外資不是中資外資的話還是可以用外資投資審查辦法當中的第七條國安的因素禁止這一類有問題的外資來投入我們的涉及到國安的相關的一個產業假如是中資的話那更不允許\n\n25\n00:08:15,345 --> 00:08:33,769\n好局長齁這個部分你其實解釋得非常清楚我們可以看到從這一張圖就知道說他的孫公司或子公司在台灣而他往上延伸是有中資的色彩在裡頭而本席剩下最後一點點時間我跟主席借個一分鐘就是我們看到齁我們目前針對所謂中資或僑外資尤其是中資來台灣都是修正一個是在2012年一個在2018年一個是所謂的正面表列誰可以來\n\n26\n00:08:43,891 --> 00:09:06,541\n另外一個是負面表列誰不能來但是在這個部分通通沒有把物流業放進來但是我相信剛剛在局長的回應當中已經非常清楚的知道當戰爭爆發的時候物流業它可以成為助力也可以成為對方要入侵台灣的時候的一個主力甚至於非常重要的在地協力者\n\n27\n00:09:07,361 --> 00:09:34,253\n所以這個部分要修法的主管機關我知道是經濟部但是我也希望就像局長剛剛說的跟經濟部在做意見交流的時候我認為是該修法了不然會跟不上現在所謂中資或者是境外資金進入來滲透台灣或影響台灣安全的這個部分對這我們會繼續來注意它涉及到的有國安以外還有我們的產業安全的部分我們繼續來跟其他部會來加強聯繫那來擦除這樣的案件\n\n28\n00:09:35,214 --> 00:09:44,304\n好謝謝謝謝處營委員那個局長高雄港的6566號碼頭東方海外那個這也一定要注意一下好請坐好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1284\t26403\t謝謝主席 主席有請國安局蔡局長以及我們法務部那個法務部調查局的陳百利 陳局長好 兩位好 謝謝主席 林委員早好 因為時間有限 我直接就切入主題喔那就是這個過去喔 我們都是擔心所謂的境外勢力包括剛剛提到的這個中國的透過境外網軍來介入國民黨 在野黨黨主席的選舉喔\n27384\t44177\t那麼其實媒體的滲透一直都存在在今年6月6號的時候王滬寧密會台灣高層這個事情也不是秘密了他還要求這個台灣的媒體對於這個促進統戰的宣傳不要做表面功夫當時我們認為說這個只是民間的媒體所以說這個我們只能請媒體自律畢竟台灣是一個言論自由的國家但是如果今天連央廣\n53624\t70297\t也就是我們國家的廣播的這樣的一個對外宣傳都已經出現自導自演放上五星旗我想就叫兩位局長這到底是一個犯罪事件還是一個國安事件首先我想要先請呃陳局長好了局長我想這個是檢調單位正在調查當中你不用回答個案但是\n77902\t99703\t這是不是表示在我們國家的媒體當中已經出現了這樣的一個外部勢力的滲透還是說這個只是一個不經意的犯罪行為我完全同意那個委員的看法對 這應該是一個國安的議題我們應該要把它當作是一個國安的案件來看待\n99963\t119583\t好 我會特別請局長上來的原因是因為我們看到中央社有記者潛入政府的官員內閣閣員跟立法委員的家裡的地下停車場來租這個車位之後中央社的做法是把它\n120504\t122487\t免職 就是開除他啦但是央廣到目前為止只是停職 這很奇怪耶就是你自己內部配合就是說有人把五星級放上去也知道就是內部員工做的了\n135945\t153324\t但是只停職那這個會不會可能還有更糟蹋的包庇有關於案件我不會下指導棋但是我提供這個角度我希望能夠再繼續的向上追查不是只是好像這個人說了然後就好像只有他的事情\n154345\t168970\t本案的主嫌檢察官是第一時間是有生壓但後來是交保那對那至於央廣對他們的員工要做怎麼樣的一個那個我們要尊重央廣是我尊重但是好謝謝我局長可以請回\n170678\t182731\t那我就請 就叫蔡局長像這樣的一個內部自己搞破壞而且是直接已經進入了國家的媒體當中喔這個會不會是過去我知道我們這個國安局喔都是這個所謂諮詢的機構但是會不會是因為相關的法規同樣這裡也出現所謂法規有不足之處\n189238\t203431\t因為它已經是從內部人員來做搞破壞的動作過去之前剛剛也提到了我們有國會的助理成為共諜的案子當時在資通安全法管理第19條第一項有說公務機關必要時得\n204472\t223220\t所屬的資通安全專職的人員進行事任性的查核言下之意就是得但不是必要這個會不會也是另外一個破洞變成是當你內部出現了外部干預把壞份子放進去把老鼠屎放進去的時候法規有不足之處\n224208\t240866\t因為本身央廣它算是重要的關鍵基礎設施之一因為它是負責公共傳播的部分所以在案件發生之後我們也非常的重視那也有注意到兩個面向的問題一個部分是犯罪的偵查的部分那這部分剛剛陳局長已經有跟委員做說明\n244309\t266071\t這部分所運用的法律大概是刑法的背信罪這個角度去切入至於有沒有境外勢力的介入這部分我們要再查查包括到金流或是有沒有像有一些相關的聯繫或指示的一些事證假如這方面的機證的話我們也會提供給檢調單位來了解看他的行為裡面有沒有涉及到\n266631\t292381\t一些比較公務機密或是因為資安而造成一些相關內部資安管理或其他的危害這我們再來了解因為本席要特別提醒的就是有關於法規的不足的部分在這裡是不是也一起有關於資安的部分尤其是公務機關相關的人員的部分應該也要加強在法規上面的我們也希望就是國安局可以提供相關的單位不論是數位部或者相關單位在修法上面的更多的意見\n294002\t317696\t好謝謝下一題我要來問的是有關於喔其實我在這個退府會的質詢的時候特別提到那就是今年7月我們講到的相關的這個國防國家安全的所謂社會防衛任性的部分的時候提到了就是有關於退府會轄下的北榮或相關的機關他們在物流的時候使用了具有疑似中資\n319657\t324839\t這所謂資金在內的這樣的一個物流的相關的這個運輸的物流鏈喔那當時北榮的講法就是說因為他們所這個合約的藥商喔他們只打藥商之間的合約那麼沒有辦法去規定藥商使用\n335982\t344391\t哪一個所謂物流公司但是我想這個案子發展到現在其實不是只有北榮包括台大在內我想要就教局長的事您來看這個圖我想這個圖您也不陌生這個叫做郭孔華的\n351118\t355962\t他是除了是北京市政委委員之外中國新聞網把他認為是所謂新橋代表還說我們有責任讓外界更了解中國人民網也幫他說了他在上海累積投資高達600億元顯見這樣的人中國把他捧在首賞心而這樣的人如果他身為台灣\n376841\t388567\t物流業當中資金的一份則重要的人士的時候在這個部分我們是不是必須要有其他的法規的修正尤其是我們也都知道如果一旦發生戰爭的時候這樣的所謂藥物的物流鏈\n393490\t411045\t或者是甚至於所謂的這種供應鏈的部分都是非常重要的局長你怎麼來看這個議題這問題我們有在注意因為這種物流鏈它可能涉及到相關冷鏈物品藥品傳送過程當中會掌控到一些相關的物流\n411805\t426539\t甚至也有可能這些物流業也有在我們的科學園區來針對生技業者他的相關進出運送貨物的一些細節還有接收貨物的對象可以被掌握所以我們非常的重視\n427179\t449783\t那在處理上大概有兩個層次跟委員報告第一個是大家的資金結構有沒有涉及到中資那這個部分因為在審查的時候沒有但是我們後來有向委員所提示的這些相關的上游的資金結構的狀況我們在掌握資料之後已經有通報到經濟部那經濟部在投資審查部分可以來重新審視包括\n450263\t468679\t是不是他在香港的母公司有所謂政協委員的這個身份那我們會請相關在台的公司來提供這種股權結構的說明這是第一部分第二部分是有涉及到假如是科學園區的部分它的業館可能有包括到是我們的國科會跟我們的衛福部\n468999\t495045\t那這部分我們也有進行一些跨部會的協調未來怎麼樣來規範那可能涉及到外資或是中資來介入到我們這些重要的物流業那假如是外資的話即使是外資不是中資外資的話還是可以用外資投資審查辦法當中的第七條國安的因素禁止這一類有問題的外資來投入我們的涉及到國安的相關的一個產業假如是中資的話那更不允許\n495345\t513769\t好 局長齁 這個部分你其實解釋得非常清楚我們可以看到從這一張圖就知道說他的孫公司或子公司在台灣而他往上延伸是有中資的色彩在裡頭而本席剩下最後一點點時間我跟主席借個一分鐘就是我們看到齁 我們目前針對所謂中資或僑外資尤其是中資來台灣都是修正一個是在2012年 一個在2018年一個是所謂的正面表列誰可以來\n523891\t546541\t另外一個是負面表列誰不能來但是在這個部分通通沒有把物流業放進來但是我相信剛剛在局長的回應當中已經非常清楚的知道當戰爭爆發的時候物流業它可以成為助力也可以成為對方要入侵台灣的時候的一個主力甚至於非常重要的在地協力者\n547361\t574253\t所以這個部分要修法的主管機關我知道是經濟部但是我也希望就像局長剛剛說的跟經濟部在做意見交流的時候我認為是該修法了不然會跟不上現在所謂中資或者是境外資金進入來滲透台灣或影響台灣安全的這個部分對 這我們會繼續來注意它涉及到的有國安以外還有我們的產業安全的部分我們繼續來跟其他部會來加強聯繫那來擦除這樣的案件\n575214\t584304\t好 謝謝謝謝處營委員那個局長高雄港的65 66號碼頭東方海外那個這也一定要注意一下好 請坐好\n","txt":"謝謝主席 主席有請國安局蔡局長以及我們法務部那個法務部調查局的陳百利 陳局長好 兩位好 謝謝主席 林委員早好 因為時間有限 我直接就切入主題喔那就是這個過去喔 我們都是擔心所謂的境外勢力包括剛剛提到的這個中國的透過境外網軍來介入國民黨 在野黨黨主席的選舉喔\n那麼其實媒體的滲透一直都存在在今年6月6號的時候王滬寧密會台灣高層這個事情也不是秘密了他還要求這個台灣的媒體對於這個促進統戰的宣傳不要做表面功夫當時我們認為說這個只是民間的媒體所以說這個我們只能請媒體自律畢竟台灣是一個言論自由的國家但是如果今天連央廣\n也就是我們國家的廣播的這樣的一個對外宣傳都已經出現自導自演放上五星旗我想就叫兩位局長這到底是一個犯罪事件還是一個國安事件首先我想要先請呃陳局長好了局長我想這個是檢調單位正在調查當中你不用回答個案但是\n這是不是表示在我們國家的媒體當中已經出現了這樣的一個外部勢力的滲透還是說這個只是一個不經意的犯罪行為我完全同意那個委員的看法對 這應該是一個國安的議題我們應該要把它當作是一個國安的案件來看待\n好 我會特別請局長上來的原因是因為我們看到中央社有記者潛入政府的官員內閣閣員跟立法委員的家裡的地下停車場來租這個車位之後中央社的做法是把它\n免職 就是開除他啦但是央廣到目前為止只是停職 這很奇怪耶就是你自己內部配合就是說有人把五星級放上去也知道就是內部員工做的了\n但是只停職那這個會不會可能還有更糟蹋的包庇有關於案件我不會下指導棋但是我提供這個角度我希望能夠再繼續的向上追查不是只是好像這個人說了然後就好像只有他的事情\n本案的主嫌檢察官是第一時間是有生壓但後來是交保那對那至於央廣對他們的員工要做怎麼樣的一個那個我們要尊重央廣是我尊重但是好謝謝我局長可以請回\n那我就請 就叫蔡局長像這樣的一個內部自己搞破壞而且是直接已經進入了國家的媒體當中喔這個會不會是過去我知道我們這個國安局喔都是這個所謂諮詢的機構但是會不會是因為相關的法規同樣這裡也出現所謂法規有不足之處\n因為它已經是從內部人員來做搞破壞的動作過去之前剛剛也提到了我們有國會的助理成為共諜的案子當時在資通安全法管理第19條第一項有說公務機關必要時得\n所屬的資通安全專職的人員進行事任性的查核言下之意就是得但不是必要這個會不會也是另外一個破洞變成是當你內部出現了外部干預把壞份子放進去把老鼠屎放進去的時候法規有不足之處\n因為本身央廣它算是重要的關鍵基礎設施之一因為它是負責公共傳播的部分所以在案件發生之後我們也非常的重視那也有注意到兩個面向的問題一個部分是犯罪的偵查的部分那這部分剛剛陳局長已經有跟委員做說明\n這部分所運用的法律大概是刑法的背信罪這個角度去切入至於有沒有境外勢力的介入這部分我們要再查查包括到金流或是有沒有像有一些相關的聯繫或指示的一些事證假如這方面的機證的話我們也會提供給檢調單位來了解看他的行為裡面有沒有涉及到\n一些比較公務機密或是因為資安而造成一些相關內部資安管理或其他的危害這我們再來了解因為本席要特別提醒的就是有關於法規的不足的部分在這裡是不是也一起有關於資安的部分尤其是公務機關相關的人員的部分應該也要加強在法規上面的我們也希望就是國安局可以提供相關的單位不論是數位部或者相關單位在修法上面的更多的意見\n好謝謝下一題我要來問的是有關於喔其實我在這個退府會的質詢的時候特別提到那就是今年7月我們講到的相關的這個國防國家安全的所謂社會防衛任性的部分的時候提到了就是有關於退府會轄下的北榮或相關的機關他們在物流的時候使用了具有疑似中資\n這所謂資金在內的這樣的一個物流的相關的這個運輸的物流鏈喔那當時北榮的講法就是說因為他們所這個合約的藥商喔他們只打藥商之間的合約那麼沒有辦法去規定藥商使用\n哪一個所謂物流公司但是我想這個案子發展到現在其實不是只有北榮包括台大在內我想要就教局長的事您來看這個圖我想這個圖您也不陌生這個叫做郭孔華的\n他是除了是北京市政委委員之外中國新聞網把他認為是所謂新橋代表還說我們有責任讓外界更了解中國人民網也幫他說了他在上海累積投資高達600億元顯見這樣的人中國把他捧在首賞心而這樣的人如果他身為台灣\n物流業當中資金的一份則重要的人士的時候在這個部分我們是不是必須要有其他的法規的修正尤其是我們也都知道如果一旦發生戰爭的時候這樣的所謂藥物的物流鏈\n或者是甚至於所謂的這種供應鏈的部分都是非常重要的局長你怎麼來看這個議題這問題我們有在注意因為這種物流鏈它可能涉及到相關冷鏈物品藥品傳送過程當中會掌控到一些相關的物流\n甚至也有可能這些物流業也有在我們的科學園區來針對生技業者他的相關進出運送貨物的一些細節還有接收貨物的對象可以被掌握所以我們非常的重視\n那在處理上大概有兩個層次跟委員報告第一個是大家的資金結構有沒有涉及到中資那這個部分因為在審查的時候沒有但是我們後來有向委員所提示的這些相關的上游的資金結構的狀況我們在掌握資料之後已經有通報到經濟部那經濟部在投資審查部分可以來重新審視包括\n是不是他在香港的母公司有所謂政協委員的這個身份那我們會請相關在台的公司來提供這種股權結構的說明這是第一部分第二部分是有涉及到假如是科學園區的部分它的業館可能有包括到是我們的國科會跟我們的衛福部\n那這部分我們也有進行一些跨部會的協調未來怎麼樣來規範那可能涉及到外資或是中資來介入到我們這些重要的物流業那假如是外資的話即使是外資不是中資外資的話還是可以用外資投資審查辦法當中的第七條國安的因素禁止這一類有問題的外資來投入我們的涉及到國安的相關的一個產業假如是中資的話那更不允許\n好 局長齁 這個部分你其實解釋得非常清楚我們可以看到從這一張圖就知道說他的孫公司或子公司在台灣而他往上延伸是有中資的色彩在裡頭而本席剩下最後一點點時間我跟主席借個一分鐘就是我們看到齁 我們目前針對所謂中資或僑外資尤其是中資來台灣都是修正一個是在2012年 一個在2018年一個是所謂的正面表列誰可以來\n另外一個是負面表列誰不能來但是在這個部分通通沒有把物流業放進來但是我相信剛剛在局長的回應當中已經非常清楚的知道當戰爭爆發的時候物流業它可以成為助力也可以成為對方要入侵台灣的時候的一個主力甚至於非常重要的在地協力者\n所以這個部分要修法的主管機關我知道是經濟部但是我也希望就像局長剛剛說的跟經濟部在做意見交流的時候我認為是該修法了不然會跟不上現在所謂中資或者是境外資金進入來滲透台灣或影響台灣安全的這個部分對 這我們會繼續來注意它涉及到的有國安以外還有我們的產業安全的部分我們繼續來跟其他部會來加強聯繫那來擦除這樣的案件\n好 謝謝謝謝處營委員那個局長高雄港的65 66號碼頭東方海外那個這也一定要注意一下好 請坐好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.284 --> 00:26.403\n謝謝主席主席有請國安局蔡局長以及我們法務部那個法務部調查局的陳百利陳局長好兩位好謝謝主席林委員早好因為時間有限我直接就切入主題喔那就是這個過去喔我們都是擔心所謂的境外勢力包括剛剛提到的這個中國的透過境外網軍來介入國民黨在野黨黨主席的選舉喔\n\n00:27.384 --> 00:44.177\n那麼其實媒體的滲透一直都存在在今年6月6號的時候王滬寧密會台灣高層這個事情也不是秘密了他還要求這個台灣的媒體對於這個促進統戰的宣傳不要做表面功夫當時我們認為說這個只是民間的媒體所以說這個我們只能請媒體自律畢竟台灣是一個言論自由的國家但是如果今天連央廣\n\n00:53.624 --> 01:10.297\n也就是我們國家的廣播的這樣的一個對外宣傳都已經出現自導自演放上五星旗我想就叫兩位局長這到底是一個犯罪事件還是一個國安事件首先我想要先請呃陳局長好了局長我想這個是檢調單位正在調查當中你不用回答個案但是\n\n01:17.902 --> 01:39.703\n這是不是表示在我們國家的媒體當中已經出現了這樣的一個外部勢力的滲透還是說這個只是一個不經意的犯罪行為我完全同意那個委員的看法對這應該是一個國安的議題我們應該要把它當作是一個國安的案件來看待\n\n01:39.963 --> 01:59.583\n好我會特別請局長上來的原因是因為我們看到中央社有記者潛入政府的官員內閣閣員跟立法委員的家裡的地下停車場來租這個車位之後中央社的做法是把它\n\n02:00.504 --> 02:02.487\n免職就是開除他啦但是央廣到目前為止只是停職這很奇怪耶就是你自己內部配合就是說有人把五星級放上去也知道就是內部員工做的了\n\n02:15.945 --> 02:33.324\n但是只停職那這個會不會可能還有更糟蹋的包庇有關於案件我不會下指導棋但是我提供這個角度我希望能夠再繼續的向上追查不是只是好像這個人說了然後就好像只有他的事情\n\n02:34.345 --> 02:48.970\n本案的主嫌檢察官是第一時間是有生壓但後來是交保那對那至於央廣對他們的員工要做怎麼樣的一個那個我們要尊重央廣是我尊重但是好謝謝我局長可以請回\n\n02:50.678 --> 03:02.731\n那我就請就叫蔡局長像這樣的一個內部自己搞破壞而且是直接已經進入了國家的媒體當中喔這個會不會是過去我知道我們這個國安局喔都是這個所謂諮詢的機構但是會不會是因為相關的法規同樣這裡也出現所謂法規有不足之處\n\n03:09.238 --> 03:23.431\n因為它已經是從內部人員來做搞破壞的動作過去之前剛剛也提到了我們有國會的助理成為共諜的案子當時在資通安全法管理第19條第一項有說公務機關必要時得\n\n03:24.472 --> 03:43.220\n所屬的資通安全專職的人員進行事任性的查核言下之意就是得但不是必要這個會不會也是另外一個破洞變成是當你內部出現了外部干預把壞份子放進去把老鼠屎放進去的時候法規有不足之處\n\n03:44.208 --> 04:00.866\n因為本身央廣它算是重要的關鍵基礎設施之一因為它是負責公共傳播的部分所以在案件發生之後我們也非常的重視那也有注意到兩個面向的問題一個部分是犯罪的偵查的部分那這部分剛剛陳局長已經有跟委員做說明\n\n04:04.309 --> 04:26.071\n這部分所運用的法律大概是刑法的背信罪這個角度去切入至於有沒有境外勢力的介入這部分我們要再查查包括到金流或是有沒有像有一些相關的聯繫或指示的一些事證假如這方面的機證的話我們也會提供給檢調單位來了解看他的行為裡面有沒有涉及到\n\n04:26.631 --> 04:52.381\n一些比較公務機密或是因為資安而造成一些相關內部資安管理或其他的危害這我們再來了解因為本席要特別提醒的就是有關於法規的不足的部分在這裡是不是也一起有關於資安的部分尤其是公務機關相關的人員的部分應該也要加強在法規上面的我們也希望就是國安局可以提供相關的單位不論是數位部或者相關單位在修法上面的更多的意見\n\n04:54.002 --> 05:17.696\n好謝謝下一題我要來問的是有關於喔其實我在這個退府會的質詢的時候特別提到那就是今年7月我們講到的相關的這個國防國家安全的所謂社會防衛任性的部分的時候提到了就是有關於退府會轄下的北榮或相關的機關他們在物流的時候使用了具有疑似中資\n\n05:19.657 --> 05:24.839\n這所謂資金在內的這樣的一個物流的相關的這個運輸的物流鏈喔那當時北榮的講法就是說因為他們所這個合約的藥商喔他們只打藥商之間的合約那麼沒有辦法去規定藥商使用\n\n05:35.982 --> 05:44.391\n哪一個所謂物流公司但是我想這個案子發展到現在其實不是只有北榮包括台大在內我想要就教局長的事您來看這個圖我想這個圖您也不陌生這個叫做郭孔華的\n\n05:51.118 --> 05:55.962\n他是除了是北京市政委委員之外中國新聞網把他認為是所謂新橋代表還說我們有責任讓外界更了解中國人民網也幫他說了他在上海累積投資高達600億元顯見這樣的人中國把他捧在首賞心而這樣的人如果他身為台灣\n\n06:16.841 --> 06:28.567\n物流業當中資金的一份則重要的人士的時候在這個部分我們是不是必須要有其他的法規的修正尤其是我們也都知道如果一旦發生戰爭的時候這樣的所謂藥物的物流鏈\n\n06:33.490 --> 06:51.045\n或者是甚至於所謂的這種供應鏈的部分都是非常重要的局長你怎麼來看這個議題這問題我們有在注意因為這種物流鏈它可能涉及到相關冷鏈物品藥品傳送過程當中會掌控到一些相關的物流\n\n06:51.805 --> 07:06.539\n甚至也有可能這些物流業也有在我們的科學園區來針對生技業者他的相關進出運送貨物的一些細節還有接收貨物的對象可以被掌握所以我們非常的重視\n\n07:07.179 --> 07:29.783\n那在處理上大概有兩個層次跟委員報告第一個是大家的資金結構有沒有涉及到中資那這個部分因為在審查的時候沒有但是我們後來有向委員所提示的這些相關的上游的資金結構的狀況我們在掌握資料之後已經有通報到經濟部那經濟部在投資審查部分可以來重新審視包括\n\n07:30.263 --> 07:48.679\n是不是他在香港的母公司有所謂政協委員的這個身份那我們會請相關在台的公司來提供這種股權結構的說明這是第一部分第二部分是有涉及到假如是科學園區的部分它的業館可能有包括到是我們的國科會跟我們的衛福部\n\n07:48.999 --> 08:15.045\n那這部分我們也有進行一些跨部會的協調未來怎麼樣來規範那可能涉及到外資或是中資來介入到我們這些重要的物流業那假如是外資的話即使是外資不是中資外資的話還是可以用外資投資審查辦法當中的第七條國安的因素禁止這一類有問題的外資來投入我們的涉及到國安的相關的一個產業假如是中資的話那更不允許\n\n08:15.345 --> 08:33.769\n好局長齁這個部分你其實解釋得非常清楚我們可以看到從這一張圖就知道說他的孫公司或子公司在台灣而他往上延伸是有中資的色彩在裡頭而本席剩下最後一點點時間我跟主席借個一分鐘就是我們看到齁我們目前針對所謂中資或僑外資尤其是中資來台灣都是修正一個是在2012年一個在2018年一個是所謂的正面表列誰可以來\n\n08:43.891 --> 09:06.541\n另外一個是負面表列誰不能來但是在這個部分通通沒有把物流業放進來但是我相信剛剛在局長的回應當中已經非常清楚的知道當戰爭爆發的時候物流業它可以成為助力也可以成為對方要入侵台灣的時候的一個主力甚至於非常重要的在地協力者\n\n09:07.361 --> 09:34.253\n所以這個部分要修法的主管機關我知道是經濟部但是我也希望就像局長剛剛說的跟經濟部在做意見交流的時候我認為是該修法了不然會跟不上現在所謂中資或者是境外資金進入來滲透台灣或影響台灣安全的這個部分對這我們會繼續來注意它涉及到的有國安以外還有我們的產業安全的部分我們繼續來跟其他部會來加強聯繫那來擦除這樣的案件\n\n09:35.214 --> 09:44.304\n好謝謝謝謝處營委員那個局長高雄港的6566號碼頭東方海外那個這也一定要注意一下好請坐好\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.284,"end":26.403,"text":"謝謝主席 主席有請國安局蔡局長以及我們法務部那個法務部調查局的陳百利 陳局長好 兩位好 謝謝主席 林委員早好 因為時間有限 我直接就切入主題喔那就是這個過去喔 我們都是擔心所謂的境外勢力包括剛剛提到的這個中國的透過境外網軍來介入國民黨 在野黨黨主席的選舉喔"},{"start":27.384,"end":44.177,"text":"那麼其實媒體的滲透一直都存在在今年6月6號的時候王滬寧密會台灣高層這個事情也不是秘密了他還要求這個台灣的媒體對於這個促進統戰的宣傳不要做表面功夫當時我們認為說這個只是民間的媒體所以說這個我們只能請媒體自律畢竟台灣是一個言論自由的國家但是如果今天連央廣"},{"start":53.624,"end":70.297,"text":"也就是我們國家的廣播的這樣的一個對外宣傳都已經出現自導自演放上五星旗我想就叫兩位局長這到底是一個犯罪事件還是一個國安事件首先我想要先請呃陳局長好了局長我想這個是檢調單位正在調查當中你不用回答個案但是"},{"start":77.902,"end":99.703,"text":"這是不是表示在我們國家的媒體當中已經出現了這樣的一個外部勢力的滲透還是說這個只是一個不經意的犯罪行為我完全同意那個委員的看法對 這應該是一個國安的議題我們應該要把它當作是一個國安的案件來看待"},{"start":99.963,"end":119.583,"text":"好 我會特別請局長上來的原因是因為我們看到中央社有記者潛入政府的官員內閣閣員跟立法委員的家裡的地下停車場來租這個車位之後中央社的做法是把它"},{"start":120.504,"end":122.487,"text":"免職 就是開除他啦但是央廣到目前為止只是停職 這很奇怪耶就是你自己內部配合就是說有人把五星級放上去也知道就是內部員工做的了"},{"start":135.945,"end":153.324,"text":"但是只停職那這個會不會可能還有更糟蹋的包庇有關於案件我不會下指導棋但是我提供這個角度我希望能夠再繼續的向上追查不是只是好像這個人說了然後就好像只有他的事情"},{"start":154.345,"end":168.97,"text":"本案的主嫌檢察官是第一時間是有生壓但後來是交保那對那至於央廣對他們的員工要做怎麼樣的一個那個我們要尊重央廣是我尊重但是好謝謝我局長可以請回"},{"start":170.678,"end":182.731,"text":"那我就請 就叫蔡局長像這樣的一個內部自己搞破壞而且是直接已經進入了國家的媒體當中喔這個會不會是過去我知道我們這個國安局喔都是這個所謂諮詢的機構但是會不會是因為相關的法規同樣這裡也出現所謂法規有不足之處"},{"start":189.238,"end":203.431,"text":"因為它已經是從內部人員來做搞破壞的動作過去之前剛剛也提到了我們有國會的助理成為共諜的案子當時在資通安全法管理第19條第一項有說公務機關必要時得"},{"start":204.472,"end":223.22,"text":"所屬的資通安全專職的人員進行事任性的查核言下之意就是得但不是必要這個會不會也是另外一個破洞變成是當你內部出現了外部干預把壞份子放進去把老鼠屎放進去的時候法規有不足之處"},{"start":224.208,"end":240.866,"text":"因為本身央廣它算是重要的關鍵基礎設施之一因為它是負責公共傳播的部分所以在案件發生之後我們也非常的重視那也有注意到兩個面向的問題一個部分是犯罪的偵查的部分那這部分剛剛陳局長已經有跟委員做說明"},{"start":244.309,"end":266.071,"text":"這部分所運用的法律大概是刑法的背信罪這個角度去切入至於有沒有境外勢力的介入這部分我們要再查查包括到金流或是有沒有像有一些相關的聯繫或指示的一些事證假如這方面的機證的話我們也會提供給檢調單位來了解看他的行為裡面有沒有涉及到"},{"start":266.631,"end":292.381,"text":"一些比較公務機密或是因為資安而造成一些相關內部資安管理或其他的危害這我們再來了解因為本席要特別提醒的就是有關於法規的不足的部分在這裡是不是也一起有關於資安的部分尤其是公務機關相關的人員的部分應該也要加強在法規上面的我們也希望就是國安局可以提供相關的單位不論是數位部或者相關單位在修法上面的更多的意見"},{"start":294.002,"end":317.696,"text":"好謝謝下一題我要來問的是有關於喔其實我在這個退府會的質詢的時候特別提到那就是今年7月我們講到的相關的這個國防國家安全的所謂社會防衛任性的部分的時候提到了就是有關於退府會轄下的北榮或相關的機關他們在物流的時候使用了具有疑似中資"},{"start":319.657,"end":324.839,"text":"這所謂資金在內的這樣的一個物流的相關的這個運輸的物流鏈喔那當時北榮的講法就是說因為他們所這個合約的藥商喔他們只打藥商之間的合約那麼沒有辦法去規定藥商使用"},{"start":335.982,"end":344.391,"text":"哪一個所謂物流公司但是我想這個案子發展到現在其實不是只有北榮包括台大在內我想要就教局長的事您來看這個圖我想這個圖您也不陌生這個叫做郭孔華的"},{"start":351.118,"end":355.962,"text":"他是除了是北京市政委委員之外中國新聞網把他認為是所謂新橋代表還說我們有責任讓外界更了解中國人民網也幫他說了他在上海累積投資高達600億元顯見這樣的人中國把他捧在首賞心而這樣的人如果他身為台灣"},{"start":376.841,"end":388.567,"text":"物流業當中資金的一份則重要的人士的時候在這個部分我們是不是必須要有其他的法規的修正尤其是我們也都知道如果一旦發生戰爭的時候這樣的所謂藥物的物流鏈"},{"start":393.49,"end":411.045,"text":"或者是甚至於所謂的這種供應鏈的部分都是非常重要的局長你怎麼來看這個議題這問題我們有在注意因為這種物流鏈它可能涉及到相關冷鏈物品藥品傳送過程當中會掌控到一些相關的物流"},{"start":411.805,"end":426.539,"text":"甚至也有可能這些物流業也有在我們的科學園區來針對生技業者他的相關進出運送貨物的一些細節還有接收貨物的對象可以被掌握所以我們非常的重視"},{"start":427.179,"end":449.783,"text":"那在處理上大概有兩個層次跟委員報告第一個是大家的資金結構有沒有涉及到中資那這個部分因為在審查的時候沒有但是我們後來有向委員所提示的這些相關的上游的資金結構的狀況我們在掌握資料之後已經有通報到經濟部那經濟部在投資審查部分可以來重新審視包括"},{"start":450.263,"end":468.679,"text":"是不是他在香港的母公司有所謂政協委員的這個身份那我們會請相關在台的公司來提供這種股權結構的說明這是第一部分第二部分是有涉及到假如是科學園區的部分它的業館可能有包括到是我們的國科會跟我們的衛福部"},{"start":468.999,"end":495.045,"text":"那這部分我們也有進行一些跨部會的協調未來怎麼樣來規範那可能涉及到外資或是中資來介入到我們這些重要的物流業那假如是外資的話即使是外資不是中資外資的話還是可以用外資投資審查辦法當中的第七條國安的因素禁止這一類有問題的外資來投入我們的涉及到國安的相關的一個產業假如是中資的話那更不允許"},{"start":495.345,"end":513.769,"text":"好 局長齁 這個部分你其實解釋得非常清楚我們可以看到從這一張圖就知道說他的孫公司或子公司在台灣而他往上延伸是有中資的色彩在裡頭而本席剩下最後一點點時間我跟主席借個一分鐘就是我們看到齁 我們目前針對所謂中資或僑外資尤其是中資來台灣都是修正一個是在2012年 一個在2018年一個是所謂的正面表列誰可以來"},{"start":523.891,"end":546.541,"text":"另外一個是負面表列誰不能來但是在這個部分通通沒有把物流業放進來但是我相信剛剛在局長的回應當中已經非常清楚的知道當戰爭爆發的時候物流業它可以成為助力也可以成為對方要入侵台灣的時候的一個主力甚至於非常重要的在地協力者"},{"start":547.361,"end":574.253,"text":"所以這個部分要修法的主管機關我知道是經濟部但是我也希望就像局長剛剛說的跟經濟部在做意見交流的時候我認為是該修法了不然會跟不上現在所謂中資或者是境外資金進入來滲透台灣或影響台灣安全的這個部分對 這我們會繼續來注意它涉及到的有國安以外還有我們的產業安全的部分我們繼續來跟其他部會來加強聯繫那來擦除這樣的案件"},{"start":575.214,"end":584.304,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝處營委員那個局長高雄港的65 66號碼頭東方海外那個這也一定要注意一下好 請坐好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":348,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（11時）謝謝主席，主席有請國安局蔡局長，以及法務部調查局的陳白立局長。"],["主席：好，兩位。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝主席，林委員早。"],["林委員楚茵：好。因為時間有限，我直接就切入主題，過去我們都擔心所謂的境外勢力，包括剛剛提到的中國透過境外網軍介入國民黨、在野黨黨主席的選舉。其實媒體的滲透一直都存在，在今年6月6號的時候，王滬寧密會臺灣高層，這個事情也不是秘密了，他還要求臺灣媒體對於促進統戰的宣傳不要做表面功夫。當時我們認為這只是民間的媒體，所以我們只能請媒體自律，畢竟臺灣是一個言論自由的國家。但如果今天連央廣，也就是我們國家的廣播這樣一個對外宣傳的媒體，都已經出現自導自演、放上五星旗……我想就教兩位局長，這到底是一個犯罪事件，還是一個國安事件？","首先我請陳局長好了，這個檢調單位正在調查當中，你不用回答個案，但這是不是表示在我們國家的媒體當中，已經出現了這樣的外部勢力滲透，還是說這只是一個不經意的犯罪行為？"],["陳局長白立：我完全同意委員的看法，對，這應該是一個國安的議題，我們應該要把它當作是一個國安的案件來看待。"],["林委員楚茵：好，我會特別請局長上來的原因，是因為我們看到中央社有記者潛入政府官員、內閣閣員跟立法委員家裡的地下停車場來租車位，中央社的作法是把他免職，就是開除他。"],["陳局長白立：是。"],["林委員楚茵：但央廣到目前為止只是停職，這很奇怪！你自己內部配合，有人把五星旗放上去，也知道就是內部員工做的了，但是只停職，這個會不會是可能還有更高層包庇？關於案件，我不會下指導棋，但是我提供這個角度，我希望能夠再繼續地向上追查。"],["陳局長白立：是，會。"],["林委員楚茵：而不是只是這個人說了，然後好像就只有他的事情。"],["陳局長白立：本案的主嫌，檢察官第一時間是有聲押，後來是交保。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["陳局長白立：至於央廣對他們的員工要做怎麼樣的……那個我們要尊重央廣。"],["林委員楚茵：是，我尊重，但是……好，謝謝，局長可以請回。","那我就教蔡局長，像這樣的內部自己搞破壞，而且已經直接進入國家的媒體當中，過去我知道國安局是所謂的諮詢機構，但會不會是因為相關的法規，同樣地這裡也出現所謂的法規有不足之處？因為這已經內部人員來搞破壞的動作。剛剛也提到了，過去我們有國會助理成為共諜的案子，當時在資通安全管理法第十九條第一項有說「公務機關於必要時，得對所屬資通安全專職人員之適任性進行查核。」言下之意就是「得」，但不是必要，這會不會也是另外一個破洞，變成是當你內部出現了外部干預，把壞分子放進去、把老鼠屎放進去的時候，法規有不足之處？"],["蔡局長明彥：對，因為本身央廣算是重要的關鍵基礎設施之一。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["蔡局長明彥：因為它是負責公共傳播的部分，所以在案件發生之後我們也非常重視，也有注意到兩個面向的問題，一個部分是犯罪偵查的部分，這部分剛剛陳局長已經有跟委員說明。這部分所運用的法律，大概是由刑法背信罪這個角度去切入。至於有沒有境外勢力介入，這部分我們要再查察，包括金流，或是有沒有相關聯繫或指示的一些事證。假如有這方面跡證的話，我們也會提供給檢調單位了解，看他的行為裡面有沒有涉及到一些比較是公務機密，或者因為資安而造成相關的內部資安管理或其他危害，這個我們再來了解。"],["林委員楚茵：好，本席要特別提醒的就是，有關於法規不足的部分、有關於資安的部分，尤其是公務機關相關人員的部分，應該也要加強在法規上面的……"],["蔡局長明彥：是。"],["林委員楚茵：我們也希望國安局可以提供相關單位，不論是數位部或者相關單位在修法上面的更多意見。"],["蔡局長明彥：好，應該的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝。下一題我要問的是，其實我針對退輔會質詢的時候有特別提到，今年7月我們講到相關國家安全所謂社會防衛韌性部分的時候，提到有關於退輔會轄下的北榮或相關機關，他們在物流上，使用了具有疑似中資在內物流相關運輸的物流鏈。當時北榮的講法是，因為他們，只有打藥商之間的合約，沒有辦法規定藥商使用哪一個所謂的物流公司。","這個案子發展到現在，其實不是只有北榮，包括臺大在內，我想就教局長，您來看這個圖，我想這個圖您也不陌生，這個叫做郭孔華的，他除了是北京市政協委員之外，中國新聞網認為他是所謂的新僑代表，還說「我們有責任讓外界更了解中國」；人民網也幫他說了，他在上海累計投資高達600億元，顯見這樣的人中國把他捧在手掌心。而這樣的人，如果他身為在臺灣物流業中擁有資金的重要人士時，在這個部分我們是不是必須要有其他法規的修正？尤其我們都知道，一旦發生戰爭，藥物的物流鏈甚至於這種供應鏈都是非常重要的。局長，你怎麼看這個議題？"],["蔡局長明彥：這個問題我們有在注意，因為這種物流鏈可能涉及到相關冷鏈物品、藥品，在傳送過程當中會掌控到一些相關的物流，甚至可能這些物流業也有在我們的科學園區，針對生技業者相關進出運送貨物的一些細節，還有接收貨物的對象可以被掌握，所以我們非常重視。","在處理上大概有兩個層次，跟委員報告，第一個是它的資金結構有沒有涉及到中資。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["蔡局長明彥：這個部分因為在審查的時候沒有，但是我們後來有像委員所提示的，了解這些相關上游資金結構的狀況，我們在掌握資料之後，已經有通報到經濟部。"],["林委員楚茵：好。"],["蔡局長明彥：經濟部在投資審查的部分可以重新審視，包括它在香港的母公司是不是有所謂政協委員的身分，這部分我們會請相關在臺的公司提供股權結構的說明，這是第一部分。","第二部分，假如有涉及到科學園區的部分，它的業管可能包括國科會跟衛福部，這部分我們也有進行一些跨部會的協調。未來怎麼樣規範，可能涉及到外資或是中資介入我們這些重要的物流業。假如是外資的話，即使是外資，不是中資，還是可以用外資投資審查辦法第七條國安的因素，禁止這一類有問題的外資來投入涉及我們國安的相關產業。假如是中資的話，那更不允許。"],["林委員楚茵：好，局長，這個部分你其實解釋得非常清楚。我們可以看到，從這一張圖就知道，它的孫公司或子公司在臺灣，而它往上延伸有中資的色彩在裡頭。","本席剩下最後一點點時間，我跟主席借個1分鐘。","我們目前針對中資或僑外資，尤其中資來臺灣，都是修正，一個是在2012年，一個在2018年；一個是所謂的正面表列、誰可以來，另外一個是負面表列、誰不能來，但是在這個部分通通沒有把物流業放進來。但我相信剛剛在局長的回應當中，已經非常清楚地知道，當戰爭爆發的時候，物流業可以成為助力，也可以成為對方要入侵臺灣時的一個阻力，甚至是非常重要的在地協力者。對於這個部分，要修法的主管機關我知道是經濟部，但是我也希望就像局長剛剛說的，跟經濟部在做意見交流的時候，我認為是該修法了，不然會跟不上中資或者是境外資金進入，來滲透臺灣或影響臺灣安全的部分。"],["蔡局長明彥：這個我們會繼續注意，它涉及的除了國安以外，還有我們的產業安全，我們會繼續跟其他部會加強聯繫，查處這樣的案件。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝局長。"],["蔡局長明彥：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員。局長，高雄港65、66號碼頭東方海外公司的事情，請一併注意一下，好，請坐。謝謝。","接下來進行詢答的委員是徐巧芯委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-4","speakers":["王定宇","陳俊宇","陳永康","羅美玲","沈伯洋","馬文君","陳冠廷","林楚茵","徐巧芯","王鴻薇","吳宗憲","黃仁","林憶君"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局局長蔡明彥率相關情報機關首長提出「國家情報工作暨國家安全局業務報告」，\n並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00003"}}}