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\"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:19,839 --> 00:00:46,157\n主席各位委員有請部長我們請部長謝謝部長好辛苦了今天一開始我還是要先談整個馬太安菸賽福的過程不是要去救者而是說因為發生這麼大的災害\n\n2\n00:00:47,529 --> 00:01:00,062\n相關的災害的救助或是相關的措施就要從官去處理要去從官去處理好我們看這個\n\n3\n00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:28,005\n農業部林業及自然保育署的一個報告裡面針對馬鞍西淹塞府災害現況特別提到109年起然後也提到113年我就不再重複了就是說這個109年起這個就開始逐年擴大這個汐水面積也提到了113年\n\n4\n00:01:30,269 --> 00:01:58,656\n又提到這個更是開始擴大今年的8月13號立法院做了一個決議開挖易紅道開挖易紅道有困難的話最起碼修築堤防固床工程這個是當初8月13號的一個議事錄8月13號的議事錄立法院\n\n5\n00:02:01,428 --> 00:02:29,081\n本席在8月20號也發文召開協調會因為我看到的資料是說10月初就要開始疫流都沒有下雨的話10月初就疫流所以我們緊急召開協調會這個會議結論也特別請各機關積極辦理開挖易洪道修築地方庫船工程等\n\n6\n00:02:31,107 --> 00:02:58,421\n好我們看這個災後災後水利署十天十天完成這個加速設置土堤防線三重保護更加穩固十天完成了這個中期的部分復建工程\n\n7\n00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:20,989\n到明年的4月防汛期前完成緊急輸進規劃今年年底也就是101112三個月要完成100萬立方公尺\n\n8\n00:03:22,748 --> 00:03:47,206\n我提這個意思說因為前面沒有做所以會造成就農業的來講農業的來講非常大的損害像這個是往事這個是那個板柵農場這個整個往事的機器全部都壞了全部都壞了\n\n9\n00:03:49,358 --> 00:04:13,778\n這個農田全部被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農機也被淹沒農田也是被淹沒這個以這個為例土都已經到了一樓的房子一樣高了當然農田的淹沒也是一樣也是一樣這個農田這個是\n\n10\n00:04:18,341 --> 00:04:41,648\n這颱風淺風災害淺這個差很多真的差很多這個很強烈的對比好這個農業部這段時間也做了很多的相關的這些救助或是重建或是相關的這些輔導很重要的就是說這裡面呢一再的\n\n11\n00:04:42,489 --> 00:05:06,417\n对象就是自有耕地或成株耕地这个部分我们就必须要去考量这里面也是一样这个腌农田流失买莫专案辅导措施就是你还是以自有耕地或成株耕地这样的一个为主\n\n12\n00:05:08,401 --> 00:05:35,517\n像这个农业资财农基剂也是变成要自有的要有农基证明类似像这样的像这个都必须要去考虑怎么样针对受害它一样是受害像这个农地专案农契咒这个修根这些你们都有做了我现在包括农田的复原各方面\n\n13\n00:05:36,700 --> 00:06:03,167\n也强调的是自有耕地像这个我们就讲这个农产品农产业全品项你是只限于光复箱啊凤梨镇也是有啊所以就不要去凤梨镇也应该比较农产业全品项不能只有光复箱啊\n\n14\n00:06:04,521 --> 00:06:32,898\n所以這個部分是因為我實地去看了去了解去勘查了所以這個部分也應該要把它補列進去很重要的是說尤其是原住民的部分原住民保留地我們有取得所有錢的有的還沒有取得所有錢還在作業中鄉鎮公所工廠管理機關都已經勘查\n\n15\n00:06:34,977 --> 00:06:59,799\n同意符合振化边保育地可以取得收入钱但是他还在作业中的明明这个土地工厂管理机关都同意他使用但是产权还在公有还在国产署像这样的一个或是在还在研明会所以这个部分也请这个\n\n16\n00:07:01,555 --> 00:07:27,902\n農業部能夠給也給一個這個只要是能夠讓工廠管理機關證明他確實是他在耕種所以現在很多都放寬了包括我們一般的住房屋那些都放寬了只要能夠雖然沒有所有錢的房子沒有所有錢但是能夠證明說確實他的房子\n\n17\n00:07:29,361 --> 00:07:58,081\n在居住雖然沒有戶籍的現在都放寬了所以農業的部分也希望能夠放寬包括農機證明在鄉下都是這樣我買了之後我現在沒有做農了就賣給另外一個沒有買賣企業所以這個希望能夠收錢給村里長或者是農會去證明部長可以嗎\n\n18\n00:07:59,767 --> 00:08:20,561\n委員報告您剛才所提的大部分我在去花蓮的時候就已經處理了包括農機證明我們現在也不需要農機證明了對於這個自有土地或是租地的部分你如果沒有企業的話你只要有口頭約因為有很多口頭約口頭約你只要竊竊然後竊竊未來如果地主沒有意見那就可以領如果地主認為是他的\n\n19\n00:08:21,081 --> 00:08:40,798\n那就進到紛爭處理的機制那你這邊提到的原住民保留地所有權的農民的部分因為他沒有所有權然後他隨便指認哪一個地是他種的我沒辦法判斷所以只要是原民會那邊因為他有劃分嘛能夠提供證明他是\n\n20\n00:08:41,538 --> 00:09:06,079\n對在那邊就請那個工廠管理機關提出證明對他如果證明說他只是還沒有國有財政署他也可以證明他如果國有財政署也說雖然說國有財政署沒有提供租約但是也也出具的說他有在這邊種植的事實我們都可以認好這個基本上所以這個部分我們會盡量的去處理這個本來我們就在處理的還是要有公文出來好不好我們\n\n21\n00:09:06,699 --> 00:09:32,356\n該有的我們都會有包括這些都能夠有個白紙黑字地方政府才可以或是農會還是相關受理的單位才能夠有所依據好不好最後灌溉溝渠的部分我們就以這個例子馬太安溪他本來從這邊那個灌溉排水灌溉水但是因為\n\n22\n00:09:33,627 --> 00:09:59,519\n就把它沖毀然後有時候它整個溪流因為整次的關係所以沒有了沒有水了然後這個都沒有水了我現在就跟你講跟部長講我都有照片了部長你請委員最後一句話因為最後了最後一句話鄉親認為這個抽水沒有辦法因應\n\n23\n00:10:00,730 --> 00:10:08,506\n所以這個部分怎麼樣去解決再請那個你們是哪個單位去農水署農田署再跟我討論好不好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n19839\t46157\t主席 各位委員 有請部長我們請部長 謝謝部長好 辛苦了今天一開始我還是要先談整個馬太安菸賽福的過程不是要去救者而是說因為發生這麼大的災害\n47529\t60062\t相關的災害的救助或是相關的措施就要從官去處理要去從官去處理好我們看這個\n61700\t88005\t農業部林業及自然保育署的一個報告裡面針對馬鞍西淹塞府災害現況特別提到109年起然後也提到113年我就不再重複了就是說這個109年起這個就開始逐年擴大這個汐水面積也提到了113年\n90269\t118656\t又提到這個更是開始擴大今年的8月13號立法院做了一個決議開挖易紅道開挖易紅道有困難的話最起碼修築堤防固床工程這個是當初8月13號的一個議事錄8月13號的議事錄立法院\n121428\t149081\t本席在8月20號也發文召開協調會因為我看到的資料是說10月初就要開始疫流都沒有下雨的話10月初就疫流所以我們緊急召開協調會這個會議結論也特別請各機關積極辦理開挖易洪道 修築地方 庫船工程等\n151107\t178421\t好 我們看這個災後災後水利署十天十天完成這個加速設置土堤防線三重保護更加穩固十天 完成了這個中期的部分復建工程\n179400\t200989\t到明年的4月防汛期前完成緊急輸進規劃今年年底也就是10 11 12三個月要完成100萬立方公尺\n202748\t227206\t我提這個意思說因為前面沒有做所以會造成就農業的來講農業的來講非常大的損害像這個是往事這個是那個板柵農場這個整個往事的機器全部都壞了全部都壞了\n229358\t253778\t這個農田全部被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農機也被淹沒農田也是被淹沒這個以這個為例土都已經到了一樓的房子一樣高了當然農田的淹沒也是一樣也是一樣這個農田這個是\n258341\t281648\t這颱風淺風災害淺這個差很多真的差很多這個很強烈的對比好這個農業部這段時間也做了很多的相關的這些救助或是重建或是相關的這些輔導很重要的就是說這裡面呢一再的\n282489\t306417\t对象就是自有耕地或成株耕地这个部分我们就必须要去考量这里面也是一样这个腌农田流失买莫专案辅导措施就是你还是以自有耕地或成株耕地这样的一个为主\n308401\t335517\t像这个农业资财农基剂也是变成要自有的要有农基证明类似像这样的像这个都必须要去考虑怎么样针对受害它一样是受害像这个农地专案农契咒这个修根这些你们都有做了我现在包括农田的复原各方面\n336700\t363167\t也强调的是自有耕地像这个我们就讲这个农产品农产业全品项你是只限于光复箱啊凤梨镇也是有啊所以就不要去凤梨镇也应该比较农产业全品项不能只有光复箱啊\n364521\t392898\t所以這個部分是因為我實地去看了 去了解 去勘查了所以這個部分也應該要把它補列進去很重要的是說尤其是原住民的部分原住民保留地我們有取得所有錢的有的還沒有取得所有錢 還在作業中鄉鎮公所工廠管理機關都已經勘查\n394977\t419799\t同意符合振化边保育地可以取得收入钱但是他还在作业中的明明这个土地工厂管理机关都同意他使用但是产权还在公有还在国产署像这样的一个或是在还在研明会所以这个部分也请这个\n421555\t447902\t農業部能夠給也給一個這個只要是能夠讓工廠管理機關證明他確實是他在耕種所以現在很多都放寬了包括我們一般的住房屋那些都放寬了只要能夠雖然沒有所有錢的房子沒有所有錢但是能夠證明說確實他的房子\n449361\t478081\t在居住雖然沒有戶籍的現在都放寬了所以農業的部分也希望能夠放寬包括農機證明在鄉下都是這樣我買了之後我現在沒有做農了就賣給另外一個沒有買賣企業所以這個希望能夠收錢給村里長或者是農會去證明部長可以嗎\n479767\t500561\t委員報告您剛才所提的大部分我在去花蓮的時候就已經處理了包括農機證明我們現在也不需要農機證明了對於這個自有土地或是租地的部分你如果沒有企業的話你只要有口頭約因為有很多口頭約口頭約你只要竊竊然後竊竊未來如果地主沒有意見那就可以領如果地主認為是他的\n501081\t520798\t那就進到紛爭處理的機制那你這邊提到的原住民保留地所有權的農民的部分因為他沒有所有權然後他隨便指認哪一個地是他種的我沒辦法判斷所以只要是原民會那邊因為他有劃分嘛能夠提供證明他是\n521538\t546079\t對 在那邊就請那個工廠管理機關提出證明對 他如果證明說他只是還沒有國有財政署他也可以證明他如果國有財政署也說雖然說國有財政署沒有提供租約但是也也出具的說他有在這邊種植的事實我們都可以認好這個基本上所以這個部分我們會盡量的去處理這個本來我們就在處理的還是要有公文出來好不好我們\n546699\t572356\t該有的我們都會有包括這些都能夠有個白紙黑字地方政府才可以或是農會還是相關受理的單位才能夠有所依據好不好最後灌溉溝渠的部分我們就以這個例子馬太安溪他本來從這邊那個灌溉排水灌溉水但是因為\n573627\t599519\t就把它沖毀然後有時候它整個溪流因為整次的關係所以沒有了沒有水了然後這個都沒有水了我現在就跟你講跟部長講我都有照片了部長你請委員最後一句話因為最後了最後一句話鄉親認為這個抽水沒有辦法因應\n600730\t608506\t所以這個部分怎麼樣去解決再請那個你們是哪個單位去農水署農田署再跟我討論好不好謝謝\n","txt":"主席 各位委員 有請部長我們請部長 謝謝部長好 辛苦了今天一開始我還是要先談整個馬太安菸賽福的過程不是要去救者而是說因為發生這麼大的災害\n相關的災害的救助或是相關的措施就要從官去處理要去從官去處理好我們看這個\n農業部林業及自然保育署的一個報告裡面針對馬鞍西淹塞府災害現況特別提到109年起然後也提到113年我就不再重複了就是說這個109年起這個就開始逐年擴大這個汐水面積也提到了113年\n又提到這個更是開始擴大今年的8月13號立法院做了一個決議開挖易紅道開挖易紅道有困難的話最起碼修築堤防固床工程這個是當初8月13號的一個議事錄8月13號的議事錄立法院\n本席在8月20號也發文召開協調會因為我看到的資料是說10月初就要開始疫流都沒有下雨的話10月初就疫流所以我們緊急召開協調會這個會議結論也特別請各機關積極辦理開挖易洪道 修築地方 庫船工程等\n好 我們看這個災後災後水利署十天十天完成這個加速設置土堤防線三重保護更加穩固十天 完成了這個中期的部分復建工程\n到明年的4月防汛期前完成緊急輸進規劃今年年底也就是10 11 12三個月要完成100萬立方公尺\n我提這個意思說因為前面沒有做所以會造成就農業的來講農業的來講非常大的損害像這個是往事這個是那個板柵農場這個整個往事的機器全部都壞了全部都壞了\n這個農田全部被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農機也被淹沒農田也是被淹沒這個以這個為例土都已經到了一樓的房子一樣高了當然農田的淹沒也是一樣也是一樣這個農田這個是\n這颱風淺風災害淺這個差很多真的差很多這個很強烈的對比好這個農業部這段時間也做了很多的相關的這些救助或是重建或是相關的這些輔導很重要的就是說這裡面呢一再的\n对象就是自有耕地或成株耕地这个部分我们就必须要去考量这里面也是一样这个腌农田流失买莫专案辅导措施就是你还是以自有耕地或成株耕地这样的一个为主\n像这个农业资财农基剂也是变成要自有的要有农基证明类似像这样的像这个都必须要去考虑怎么样针对受害它一样是受害像这个农地专案农契咒这个修根这些你们都有做了我现在包括农田的复原各方面\n也强调的是自有耕地像这个我们就讲这个农产品农产业全品项你是只限于光复箱啊凤梨镇也是有啊所以就不要去凤梨镇也应该比较农产业全品项不能只有光复箱啊\n所以這個部分是因為我實地去看了 去了解 去勘查了所以這個部分也應該要把它補列進去很重要的是說尤其是原住民的部分原住民保留地我們有取得所有錢的有的還沒有取得所有錢 還在作業中鄉鎮公所工廠管理機關都已經勘查\n同意符合振化边保育地可以取得收入钱但是他还在作业中的明明这个土地工厂管理机关都同意他使用但是产权还在公有还在国产署像这样的一个或是在还在研明会所以这个部分也请这个\n農業部能夠給也給一個這個只要是能夠讓工廠管理機關證明他確實是他在耕種所以現在很多都放寬了包括我們一般的住房屋那些都放寬了只要能夠雖然沒有所有錢的房子沒有所有錢但是能夠證明說確實他的房子\n在居住雖然沒有戶籍的現在都放寬了所以農業的部分也希望能夠放寬包括農機證明在鄉下都是這樣我買了之後我現在沒有做農了就賣給另外一個沒有買賣企業所以這個希望能夠收錢給村里長或者是農會去證明部長可以嗎\n委員報告您剛才所提的大部分我在去花蓮的時候就已經處理了包括農機證明我們現在也不需要農機證明了對於這個自有土地或是租地的部分你如果沒有企業的話你只要有口頭約因為有很多口頭約口頭約你只要竊竊然後竊竊未來如果地主沒有意見那就可以領如果地主認為是他的\n那就進到紛爭處理的機制那你這邊提到的原住民保留地所有權的農民的部分因為他沒有所有權然後他隨便指認哪一個地是他種的我沒辦法判斷所以只要是原民會那邊因為他有劃分嘛能夠提供證明他是\n對 在那邊就請那個工廠管理機關提出證明對 他如果證明說他只是還沒有國有財政署他也可以證明他如果國有財政署也說雖然說國有財政署沒有提供租約但是也也出具的說他有在這邊種植的事實我們都可以認好這個基本上所以這個部分我們會盡量的去處理這個本來我們就在處理的還是要有公文出來好不好我們\n該有的我們都會有包括這些都能夠有個白紙黑字地方政府才可以或是農會還是相關受理的單位才能夠有所依據好不好最後灌溉溝渠的部分我們就以這個例子馬太安溪他本來從這邊那個灌溉排水灌溉水但是因為\n就把它沖毀然後有時候它整個溪流因為整次的關係所以沒有了沒有水了然後這個都沒有水了我現在就跟你講跟部長講我都有照片了部長你請委員最後一句話因為最後了最後一句話鄉親認為這個抽水沒有辦法因應\n所以這個部分怎麼樣去解決再請那個你們是哪個單位去農水署農田署再跟我討論好不好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:19.839 --> 00:46.157\n主席各位委員有請部長我們請部長謝謝部長好辛苦了今天一開始我還是要先談整個馬太安菸賽福的過程不是要去救者而是說因為發生這麼大的災害\n\n00:47.529 --> 01:00.062\n相關的災害的救助或是相關的措施就要從官去處理要去從官去處理好我們看這個\n\n01:01.700 --> 01:28.005\n農業部林業及自然保育署的一個報告裡面針對馬鞍西淹塞府災害現況特別提到109年起然後也提到113年我就不再重複了就是說這個109年起這個就開始逐年擴大這個汐水面積也提到了113年\n\n01:30.269 --> 01:58.656\n又提到這個更是開始擴大今年的8月13號立法院做了一個決議開挖易紅道開挖易紅道有困難的話最起碼修築堤防固床工程這個是當初8月13號的一個議事錄8月13號的議事錄立法院\n\n02:01.428 --> 02:29.081\n本席在8月20號也發文召開協調會因為我看到的資料是說10月初就要開始疫流都沒有下雨的話10月初就疫流所以我們緊急召開協調會這個會議結論也特別請各機關積極辦理開挖易洪道修築地方庫船工程等\n\n02:31.107 --> 02:58.421\n好我們看這個災後災後水利署十天十天完成這個加速設置土堤防線三重保護更加穩固十天完成了這個中期的部分復建工程\n\n02:59.400 --> 03:20.989\n到明年的4月防汛期前完成緊急輸進規劃今年年底也就是101112三個月要完成100萬立方公尺\n\n03:22.748 --> 03:47.206\n我提這個意思說因為前面沒有做所以會造成就農業的來講農業的來講非常大的損害像這個是往事這個是那個板柵農場這個整個往事的機器全部都壞了全部都壞了\n\n03:49.358 --> 04:13.778\n這個農田全部被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農機也被淹沒農田也是被淹沒這個以這個為例土都已經到了一樓的房子一樣高了當然農田的淹沒也是一樣也是一樣這個農田這個是\n\n04:18.341 --> 04:41.648\n這颱風淺風災害淺這個差很多真的差很多這個很強烈的對比好這個農業部這段時間也做了很多的相關的這些救助或是重建或是相關的這些輔導很重要的就是說這裡面呢一再的\n\n04:42.489 --> 05:06.417\n对象就是自有耕地或成株耕地这个部分我们就必须要去考量这里面也是一样这个腌农田流失买莫专案辅导措施就是你还是以自有耕地或成株耕地这样的一个为主\n\n05:08.401 --> 05:35.517\n像这个农业资财农基剂也是变成要自有的要有农基证明类似像这样的像这个都必须要去考虑怎么样针对受害它一样是受害像这个农地专案农契咒这个修根这些你们都有做了我现在包括农田的复原各方面\n\n05:36.700 --> 06:03.167\n也强调的是自有耕地像这个我们就讲这个农产品农产业全品项你是只限于光复箱啊凤梨镇也是有啊所以就不要去凤梨镇也应该比较农产业全品项不能只有光复箱啊\n\n06:04.521 --> 06:32.898\n所以這個部分是因為我實地去看了去了解去勘查了所以這個部分也應該要把它補列進去很重要的是說尤其是原住民的部分原住民保留地我們有取得所有錢的有的還沒有取得所有錢還在作業中鄉鎮公所工廠管理機關都已經勘查\n\n06:34.977 --> 06:59.799\n同意符合振化边保育地可以取得收入钱但是他还在作业中的明明这个土地工厂管理机关都同意他使用但是产权还在公有还在国产署像这样的一个或是在还在研明会所以这个部分也请这个\n\n07:01.555 --> 07:27.902\n農業部能夠給也給一個這個只要是能夠讓工廠管理機關證明他確實是他在耕種所以現在很多都放寬了包括我們一般的住房屋那些都放寬了只要能夠雖然沒有所有錢的房子沒有所有錢但是能夠證明說確實他的房子\n\n07:29.361 --> 07:58.081\n在居住雖然沒有戶籍的現在都放寬了所以農業的部分也希望能夠放寬包括農機證明在鄉下都是這樣我買了之後我現在沒有做農了就賣給另外一個沒有買賣企業所以這個希望能夠收錢給村里長或者是農會去證明部長可以嗎\n\n07:59.767 --> 08:20.561\n委員報告您剛才所提的大部分我在去花蓮的時候就已經處理了包括農機證明我們現在也不需要農機證明了對於這個自有土地或是租地的部分你如果沒有企業的話你只要有口頭約因為有很多口頭約口頭約你只要竊竊然後竊竊未來如果地主沒有意見那就可以領如果地主認為是他的\n\n08:21.081 --> 08:40.798\n那就進到紛爭處理的機制那你這邊提到的原住民保留地所有權的農民的部分因為他沒有所有權然後他隨便指認哪一個地是他種的我沒辦法判斷所以只要是原民會那邊因為他有劃分嘛能夠提供證明他是\n\n08:41.538 --> 09:06.079\n對在那邊就請那個工廠管理機關提出證明對他如果證明說他只是還沒有國有財政署他也可以證明他如果國有財政署也說雖然說國有財政署沒有提供租約但是也也出具的說他有在這邊種植的事實我們都可以認好這個基本上所以這個部分我們會盡量的去處理這個本來我們就在處理的還是要有公文出來好不好我們\n\n09:06.699 --> 09:32.356\n該有的我們都會有包括這些都能夠有個白紙黑字地方政府才可以或是農會還是相關受理的單位才能夠有所依據好不好最後灌溉溝渠的部分我們就以這個例子馬太安溪他本來從這邊那個灌溉排水灌溉水但是因為\n\n09:33.627 --> 09:59.519\n就把它沖毀然後有時候它整個溪流因為整次的關係所以沒有了沒有水了然後這個都沒有水了我現在就跟你講跟部長講我都有照片了部長你請委員最後一句話因為最後了最後一句話鄉親認為這個抽水沒有辦法因應\n\n10:00.730 --> 10:08.506\n所以這個部分怎麼樣去解決再請那個你們是哪個單位去農水署農田署再跟我討論好不好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":19.839,"end":46.157,"text":"主席 各位委員 有請部長我們請部長 謝謝部長好 辛苦了今天一開始我還是要先談整個馬太安菸賽福的過程不是要去救者而是說因為發生這麼大的災害"},{"start":47.529,"end":60.062,"text":"相關的災害的救助或是相關的措施就要從官去處理要去從官去處理好我們看這個"},{"start":61.7,"end":88.005,"text":"農業部林業及自然保育署的一個報告裡面針對馬鞍西淹塞府災害現況特別提到109年起然後也提到113年我就不再重複了就是說這個109年起這個就開始逐年擴大這個汐水面積也提到了113年"},{"start":90.269,"end":118.656,"text":"又提到這個更是開始擴大今年的8月13號立法院做了一個決議開挖易紅道開挖易紅道有困難的話最起碼修築堤防固床工程這個是當初8月13號的一個議事錄8月13號的議事錄立法院"},{"start":121.428,"end":149.081,"text":"本席在8月20號也發文召開協調會因為我看到的資料是說10月初就要開始疫流都沒有下雨的話10月初就疫流所以我們緊急召開協調會這個會議結論也特別請各機關積極辦理開挖易洪道 修築地方 庫船工程等"},{"start":151.107,"end":178.421,"text":"好 我們看這個災後災後水利署十天十天完成這個加速設置土堤防線三重保護更加穩固十天 完成了這個中期的部分復建工程"},{"start":179.4,"end":200.989,"text":"到明年的4月防汛期前完成緊急輸進規劃今年年底也就是10 11 12三個月要完成100萬立方公尺"},{"start":202.748,"end":227.206,"text":"我提這個意思說因為前面沒有做所以會造成就農業的來講農業的來講非常大的損害像這個是往事這個是那個板柵農場這個整個往事的機器全部都壞了全部都壞了"},{"start":229.358,"end":253.778,"text":"這個農田全部被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農田被淹沒農機也被淹沒農田也是被淹沒這個以這個為例土都已經到了一樓的房子一樣高了當然農田的淹沒也是一樣也是一樣這個農田這個是"},{"start":258.341,"end":281.648,"text":"這颱風淺風災害淺這個差很多真的差很多這個很強烈的對比好這個農業部這段時間也做了很多的相關的這些救助或是重建或是相關的這些輔導很重要的就是說這裡面呢一再的"},{"start":282.489,"end":306.417,"text":"对象就是自有耕地或成株耕地这个部分我们就必须要去考量这里面也是一样这个腌农田流失买莫专案辅导措施就是你还是以自有耕地或成株耕地这样的一个为主"},{"start":308.401,"end":335.517,"text":"像这个农业资财农基剂也是变成要自有的要有农基证明类似像这样的像这个都必须要去考虑怎么样针对受害它一样是受害像这个农地专案农契咒这个修根这些你们都有做了我现在包括农田的复原各方面"},{"start":336.7,"end":363.167,"text":"也强调的是自有耕地像这个我们就讲这个农产品农产业全品项你是只限于光复箱啊凤梨镇也是有啊所以就不要去凤梨镇也应该比较农产业全品项不能只有光复箱啊"},{"start":364.521,"end":392.898,"text":"所以這個部分是因為我實地去看了 去了解 去勘查了所以這個部分也應該要把它補列進去很重要的是說尤其是原住民的部分原住民保留地我們有取得所有錢的有的還沒有取得所有錢 還在作業中鄉鎮公所工廠管理機關都已經勘查"},{"start":394.977,"end":419.799,"text":"同意符合振化边保育地可以取得收入钱但是他还在作业中的明明这个土地工厂管理机关都同意他使用但是产权还在公有还在国产署像这样的一个或是在还在研明会所以这个部分也请这个"},{"start":421.555,"end":447.902,"text":"農業部能夠給也給一個這個只要是能夠讓工廠管理機關證明他確實是他在耕種所以現在很多都放寬了包括我們一般的住房屋那些都放寬了只要能夠雖然沒有所有錢的房子沒有所有錢但是能夠證明說確實他的房子"},{"start":449.361,"end":478.081,"text":"在居住雖然沒有戶籍的現在都放寬了所以農業的部分也希望能夠放寬包括農機證明在鄉下都是這樣我買了之後我現在沒有做農了就賣給另外一個沒有買賣企業所以這個希望能夠收錢給村里長或者是農會去證明部長可以嗎"},{"start":479.767,"end":500.561,"text":"委員報告您剛才所提的大部分我在去花蓮的時候就已經處理了包括農機證明我們現在也不需要農機證明了對於這個自有土地或是租地的部分你如果沒有企業的話你只要有口頭約因為有很多口頭約口頭約你只要竊竊然後竊竊未來如果地主沒有意見那就可以領如果地主認為是他的"},{"start":501.081,"end":520.798,"text":"那就進到紛爭處理的機制那你這邊提到的原住民保留地所有權的農民的部分因為他沒有所有權然後他隨便指認哪一個地是他種的我沒辦法判斷所以只要是原民會那邊因為他有劃分嘛能夠提供證明他是"},{"start":521.538,"end":546.079,"text":"對 在那邊就請那個工廠管理機關提出證明對 他如果證明說他只是還沒有國有財政署他也可以證明他如果國有財政署也說雖然說國有財政署沒有提供租約但是也也出具的說他有在這邊種植的事實我們都可以認好這個基本上所以這個部分我們會盡量的去處理這個本來我們就在處理的還是要有公文出來好不好我們"},{"start":546.699,"end":572.356,"text":"該有的我們都會有包括這些都能夠有個白紙黑字地方政府才可以或是農會還是相關受理的單位才能夠有所依據好不好最後灌溉溝渠的部分我們就以這個例子馬太安溪他本來從這邊那個灌溉排水灌溉水但是因為"},{"start":573.627,"end":599.519,"text":"就把它沖毀然後有時候它整個溪流因為整次的關係所以沒有了沒有水了然後這個都沒有水了我現在就跟你講跟部長講我都有照片了部長你請委員最後一句話因為最後了最後一句話鄉親認為這個抽水沒有辦法因應"},{"start":600.73,"end":608.506,"text":"所以這個部分怎麼樣去解決再請那個你們是哪個單位去農水署農田署再跟我討論好不好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":747,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（11時20分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好，辛苦了！今天一開始，我還是要先談整個馬太鞍堰塞湖事件的過程，不是要究責，而是要求發生這麼大的災害，災害相關救助或措施究應從寬處理。在農業部林業及自然保育署的報告裡面，針對馬鞍溪堰塞湖災害現況特別提到109年起的狀況，也提到113年，我就不再重複了，109年起上游裸露面積就開始逐年擴大，113年更加擴大。今年8月13日，立法院作了一項決議，要求開挖溢洪道，開挖溢洪道有困難的話，最起碼要修築堤防、執行固床工程，這是8月13日的立法院議事錄。本席在8月20日也發文召開協調會，因為我看到有資料顯示就算都沒有下雨的話，十月初就要開始溢流，所以緊急召開協調會。會議結論也特別請各機關積極辦理，包括開挖溢洪道、修築堤防、固床工程等。","我們來看災後，水利署10天內加速設置土堤防線，三重保護更加穩固，10天完成喔！中期部分，復建工程預定明年4月防汛期前完成，緊急疏濬規劃利用今年年底：10月、11月、12月3個月完成100萬立方公尺。我提這個是因為前面沒有做，所以就農業來講，造成非常大的損害。像這個是網室，在邦查農場，網室機具全部都壞了。農田全部被淹沒，農機也被淹沒，這張又是農田被淹沒。以這張照片為例，土都已經跟房子一樓一樣高了，當然農田被淹沒的情況也一樣。這些都是農田，你看，跟災害前差很多，是很強烈的對比啊！農業部在這段時間也做了很多相關救助、重建或相關輔導，但是很重要的是裡面一再提到對象是自有耕地或承租耕地，這部分就必須考量。這裡也一樣，農田流失埋沒的專案輔導措施還是以自有耕地與承租耕地為主，農業資材、農機具也是補助自有的、要有農機證明，但是類似這些措施都必須考慮怎麼針對一樣受害者予以補助。像是針對這種農地專案農契作、休耕這些農地，你們都做了，但是包括農田復原，各方面仍強調要是自有耕地。就像這個，農產業全品項救助也只限於光復鄉，但鳳林鎮也有啊！所以就不要分，鳳林鎮也應該比照救助農產業全品項，不能只有光復鄉啊！因為我實地去看、去了解、去勘查了，這部分也應該補列進去。","尤其是原住民的部分，有些已經取得原住民保留地所有權，但有的只是還沒取得所有權、仍在作業中。鄉鎮公所、工廠管理機關都已經勘查、同意符合政府劃編保留地條件、可以取得所有權，只是還在作業中，而且明明工廠管理機關都同意他使用，只是產權還在公有機關，例如在國產署或在原民會，這個部分也請農業部給予協助，只要能夠讓工廠管理機關證明確實是他在耕種就好。現在很多都放寬了，包括一般房屋那些都放寬了，雖然是沒有所有權的房子，但是只要能夠證明確實是他在居住，只是沒有戶籍，現在都放寬了，所以，農業部分也希望能夠放寬。也包括農機證明，在鄉下都是這樣啊！我們買了之後，因為我現在不務農了，就賣給另外一人，但沒有買賣契約，所以希望能夠授權給村里長或農會去證明。部長，可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，關於您剛才所提的，我大部分在去花蓮時就已經處理了，包括農機證明，現在也不需要農機證明了。在自有土地或租地部分，雖然沒有契約，但很多人有口頭約。如果是口頭約，只要切結未來地主也沒有意見那就可以領，如果地主認為是他的，那就進入紛爭處理機制。","在您提到原住民保留地農民所有權的部分，要是他沒有所有權，而是隨便指認哪一塊地是他種的，我們沒辦法判斷，但是原民會那邊有劃分，只要能夠提供證明他在那邊……"],["鄭天財Sra 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