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\"end\": 732.848, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 732.848, \"end\": 732.989, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 732.989, \"end\": 733.129, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 733.129, \"end\": 736.652, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 736.652, \"end\": 737.312, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 737.312, \"end\": 737.512, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 737.512, \"end\": 737.572, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 737.572, \"end\": 737.773, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 737.773, \"end\": 737.793, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:04,772\n我今天從早上聽到現在職業了當的講長榮的問題我看到有幾個盲點\n\n2\n00:00:26,693 --> 00:00:54,190\n我覺得越聽越奇怪然後越看也越奇怪齁這個事件工勤服務員應該不同於一般的勞工嘛這大家都有共識他在空氣上他是屬於一個很特殊的這樣的一個環境所以對於這樣的人員的要求SOP啦齁也就是說標準作為流程都有很高的標準並不是他非常高就要高標準他確實就是必須要要有更高標準來做相關的一些規範\n\n3\n00:00:55,239 --> 00:01:22,610\n交通部的報告中有提到班機上有機組人員身體不適機上有調整組員任務但未有睡眠記錄等一下請局長回答覆全程並未通報機長或啟動衛星醫療系統也沒有廣播尋求機上醫師聯繫救護車緊急送醫等等到飛航任務結束後\n\n4\n00:01:23,991 --> 00:01:47,498\n又位於在這個組員報告中註記這個組員有身體不適之情形也就是說基礎人員在身體不適已經有調整這個任務的情況之下表示當事人都已經非常不舒服囉無法正常的這個來執行職務的狀況之下他好像什麼該做SOP通通沒有做是不是這樣\n\n5\n00:01:49,656 --> 00:02:12,356\n跟委員報告因為我們昨天就是派同仁親自去長榮瞭解那確實如果說機組員在飛機上有身體不適的話那因為這個是空服的組員所以他並沒有直接涉及到飛安剛剛我們講的我不是談飛安我是談他整個這個面對這事情的SOP嘛這個是你們的調查嘛對不對\n\n6\n00:02:14,057 --> 00:02:35,611\n這個部分應該要註記這個有利於這個公司對於組員的一個健康管理後面的關懷的處理不是只有後面關懷的處理嘛應該它整個該註記就要註記該記錄就是要記錄嘛對不對它都沒有註記它都沒有記錄那基本上民航局交通部可以做怎樣的一個處理\n\n7\n00:02:36,550 --> 00:03:04,437\n我們這邊就是還在跟長榮這邊請他把細部調查出來就是說他這個部分應該是要註記然後我們會請他檢討那如果有違反相關規定的話我們會以民航法來處理好謝謝部長你有聽到嗎我們要遭到勞檢嘛那目前交通部初期有針對這個部分結果他該做的SOP通通沒有做的情況之下勞動部這邊可以做怎樣處理因為這部分應該比較是依照民航局這邊AOR的規定\n\n8\n00:03:05,541 --> 00:03:25,773\n這部分應該是依照他們AOR的規定那他比較不是在我們的勞動法規上面的要求可是我們還是會針對我們勞動法規的部分來去做現在是在做跟這些相關的組員在要做訪談的安排現在應該是在這個安排的階段那也包括跟工會的訪談對\n\n9\n00:03:27,478 --> 00:03:52,395\n我是想說交通部已經有把初步的這樣的一個調查先出來嘛對不對當然還是必須要再更詳細一點更深入一點的相關的一些調查的一個範疇跟認定嘛但我覺得勞動部既然已經要啟動專案勞警應該是可以一併來做相關的處置這第一點那第二點這個報導這是根據報告報導他是這麼講我們有三個\n\n10\n00:03:57,899 --> 00:04:18,857\n輪流詢問那位學姊要不要背他但因為他身體已經達到有點無法控制的程度所以他太害怕他太害怕跌倒以至於不敢讓我們背只是言見狀例詢問地警是我能叫救護車不過地警回應可以要的話可以馬上叫他們還在去徵詢CP的意見那CP則回應是可以啊但他知道救護車要智慧嗎確定嗎\n\n11\n00:04:22,981 --> 00:04:35,145\n那學姊聽後就當事人聽後立即表示我有保險但CP再次提醒那要智慧喔文莫也特別註記以上是我的噩夢這誰可以答覆我這個你沒有去調查嗎有事實嗎\n\n12\n00:04:44,649 --> 00:05:11,779\n這狀況我們當然現在就是要透過訪談再一次的確認是不是這樣的狀況明航局知道這個事情嗎明航局知道這個事情嗎有去doublecheck嗎我們是初步知道就是沒有叫救護車可是訪談的部分我們會配合勞動部我是說這一段這一段有有有有詢問過嗎有調查過嗎這個部分就是因為勞動部去的時候他有說他們會進一步訪談那我們也考慮到說對於\n\n13\n00:05:14,253 --> 00:05:33,169\n勞動部去說他會進一步緩談所以這個範疇裡面到底是勞動部還是民航局我為什麼請兩兆起來就是想不要說這個部分是民航局在調查這個部分好像又不是又是勞動部可以調查然後現在在這個地方這個地方到底是你民航局還是你勞動部\n\n14\n00:05:35,367 --> 00:05:58,912\n委員其實我覺得都不用分綿羊局跟勞動部啦齁其實這就是應該一起把所有現場的狀況跟經歷什麼東西給釐清啦齁那當然綿羊局這邊有他們的所管的法規我們有我們所管的法規可是我認為其實就是應該一起把這事情釐清啦我覺得這比較能夠符合社會的期待啦我就是不想這樣分嘛但是這樣垂尋起來就會有這樣的差異嘛對不對你知道我後面還在講什麼嗎\n\n15\n00:06:00,219 --> 00:06:25,926\n我跟你們淘機有確認過機場救護車車輛雖然有收費但只要是緊急救護使用仍然是免費對不對好疾病要付費也不是這個員工要付的費用這是基本認知啊怎麼會沒有人知道怎麼CP會講這樣的回應這個不你有調查嗎然後整個基礎內在執行或訓練中\n\n16\n00:06:27,737 --> 00:06:53,113\n我覺得就是沒有完整的落實嘛不然怎麼會機組人員掌握整個飛機的安全勞動部消防部可以容許這樣的事情發生我也不分啊就你們兩個單位為什麼可以讓這種事情發生然後再來機組人員尤其是機組人員共同指出的請病假問題只要請病假績效就會墊底甚至於假日忘日請假扣分也會加重公視用績效來讓員工不敢請假是我這個事情\n\n17\n00:06:55,558 --> 00:07:14,517\n是否有這個事情我不會分我請教勞動部請教交通部還是勞動部交通部交通部勞動部就是不知不覺已經很久了我們現在確實看到他的請假的規則應該是請假的規則裡面其實是有把這個請假來作為他其實獎懲的做法\n\n18\n00:07:16,420 --> 00:07:28,587\n我在這邊具體要求啦齁希望勞動部交通部一週內啦這個不需要到什麼兩個週還是一個月啦齁一週內就是把長榮內部的血汗勞動問題還有幫剛剛媒體這個報導如果是屬實的話相關的訓練執行的這個樣態狀態啦齁整個報告一週內提到本委員會給委員會來做說明啦可不可以好我們盡量\n\n19\n00:07:43,789 --> 00:08:11,408\n我在搜尋勞動部的系統發現2022年期間長榮航空共備處分是24次總金額已經達到423萬最近就是剛剛你們講的啦最重要的一筆是在今年7月加班超時招處分是100萬元而這100萬已經達到了計畫第79條就是2萬以上100萬以下的這個才華上限嘛我不曉得黃部長可以對這個事情有什麼看法那我再提供另外一個資料就一邊答覆\n\n20\n00:08:12,508 --> 00:08:34,241\n長榮航空光建了114年就剛剛裡面講的維護勞基法性別平等工作法公衛法等項目已經被划了288萬元其中工時休息日有關的花款高達270萬元就代表長榮航空長期就存在這種超時加班未給足例價已經是一個結構性的問題\n\n21\n00:08:37,452 --> 00:08:59,365\n財報跟相關的資料長榮航空在2012年2013年的營收都超過2000億以上所以我們剛剛很多人都垂詢嘛這麼大的一個公司這麼大的一個營收規模這樣的才華真的是不成比喻九牛一毛不吞不養我再提供最後一個訊息給部長看桃園市我想這個\n\n22\n00:09:01,347 --> 00:09:13,315\n勞動基準法的事件統一裁判第一次是5萬到大大大大第七次才100萬這個如果是小餐廳小工廠我想沒有問題但遇到這種大企業大規模的營收\n\n23\n00:09:14,424 --> 00:09:39,327\n實在是有很大的一個改進檢討的空間在對照113年有幾個維吾爾勞基華的慣患公司南山人壽險才划8次因業達古有限公司才划7次中皇航空也不枉多讓才划7次怎麼在空中揮的都有這些問題的存在\n\n24\n00:09:43,083 --> 00:10:09,016\n好像要用更高的標準來面對這些航空公司不然他們會覺得這不是華清這個是在繳歸會對不對這是顯然他把當成繳歸會的一個依據尤其航空公司是特許的行業是啊而且他在比賽時也被罰了幾次\n\n25\n00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:29,066\n好像花不到那個幾次好像不到他們的營業規模的樣子一樣這種心態是很詭異的這種心態是很不足取的這種心態還標榜這樣的航空公司在飛行上有多麼的優越我覺得都非常慚愧啊\n\n26\n00:10:32,805 --> 00:10:52,243\n所以我這邊特別要求勞動部必須啟動勞基法的相關修法對華澤部門必須全面來上修尤其面對大型企業必須要有嚇阻的能力反而不能再讓勞基法的相關的華館成為他們好像在繳規會這樣的一個慣性部長可以嗎是好最後幾點144\n\n27\n00:10:55,185 --> 00:11:17,775\n你們的部長都已經講話了啦齁陳部長講說在幾萬呎的高空上很難預料會發生什麼事情也是呼籲民眾登機前要注意自己的身體狀況尤其飛行長達十幾個小時萬一身體出狀況是叫天天不靈叫地地不靈嘛延長空機主人到底在面對機上不論員工機師或乘客當發生緊急事件要如何面對\n\n28\n00:11:19,426 --> 00:11:48,707\n甚至過去有community的這個案例齁可能面對傳染病史機上人員都要如何回應這些應該一絲絲都可以說明得很清楚嘛對不對所以可以跟他們舉航空公司來做更精進的措施但是今天你們的報告連一個字都沒有你們這個一絲絲的欸會不會報告是國建署是國建署剛剛講我剛剛講的這些機組人員的執行授訓包含\n\n29\n00:11:49,869 --> 00:12:17,793\n機場的這個救護車相關的這樣的訊息連那個CP都不清楚一絲絲應該責無旁貸吧一絲絲應該有相關的報告出來讓我們知道你們扮演什麼樣的角色吧不是讓國健署丟這種報告出來吧明天可以丟出來吧可以吧好謝謝各位請回謝謝好謝謝下一位我們請\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t4772\t我今天從早上聽到現在職業了當的講長榮的問題我看到有幾個盲點\n26693\t54190\t我覺得越聽越奇怪然後越看也越奇怪齁這個事件工勤服務員應該不同於一般的勞工嘛這大家都有共識他在空氣上他是屬於一個很特殊的這樣的一個環境所以對於這樣的人員的要求SOP啦齁也就是說標準作為流程都有很高的標準並不是他非常高就要高標準他確實就是必須要要有更高標準來做相關的一些規範\n55239\t82610\t交通部的報告中有提到班機上有機組人員身體不適機上有調整組員任務但未有睡眠記錄等一下請局長回答覆全程並未通報機長或啟動衛星醫療系統也沒有廣播尋求機上醫師聯繫救護車緊急送醫等等到飛航任務結束後\n83991\t107498\t又位於在這個組員報告中註記這個組員有身體不適之情形也就是說基礎人員在身體不適已經有調整這個任務的情況之下表示當事人都已經非常不舒服囉無法正常的這個來執行職務的狀況之下他好像什麼該做SOP通通沒有做是不是這樣\n109656\t132356\t跟委員報告 因為我們昨天就是派同仁親自去長榮瞭解那確實 如果說機組員在飛機上有身體不適的話那因為這個是空服的組員所以他並沒有直接涉及到飛安 剛剛我們講的我不是談飛安 我是談他整個這個面對這事情的SOP嘛 這個是你們的調查嘛 對不對\n134057\t155611\t這個部分應該要註記 這個有利於這個公司對於組員的一個健康管理 後面的關懷的處理不是只有後面關懷的處理嘛 應該它整個該註記就要註記 該記錄就是要記錄嘛 對不對它都沒有註記 它都沒有記錄 那基本上民航局交通部可以做怎樣的一個處理\n156550\t184437\t我們這邊就是還在跟長榮這邊請他把細部調查出來就是說他這個部分應該是要註記然後我們會請他檢討那如果有違反相關規定的話我們會以民航法來處理好 謝謝部長你有聽到嗎我們要遭到勞檢嘛那目前交通部初期有針對這個部分結果他該做的SOP通通沒有做的情況之下勞動部這邊可以做怎樣處理因為這部分應該比較是依照民航局這邊AOR的規定\n185541\t205773\t這部分應該是依照他們AOR的規定那他比較不是在我們的勞動法規上面的要求可是我們還是會針對我們勞動法規的部分來去做現在是在做跟這些相關的組員在要做訪談的安排現在應該是在這個安排的階段那也包括跟工會的訪談 對\n207478\t232395\t我是想說交通部已經有把初步的這樣的一個調查先出來嘛對不對當然還是必須要再更詳細一點更深入一點的相關的一些調查的一個範疇跟認定嘛但我覺得勞動部既然已經要啟動專案勞警應該是可以一併來做相關的處置這第一點那第二點這個報導這是根據報告報導他是這麼講我們有三個\n237899\t258857\t輪流詢問那位學姊要不要背他但因為他身體已經達到有點無法控制的程度所以他太害怕他太害怕跌倒以至於不敢讓我們背只是言見狀例詢問地警是我能叫救護車不過地警回應可以 要的話可以馬上叫他們還在去徵詢CP的意見那CP則回應是可以啊但他知道救護車要智慧嗎確定嗎\n262981\t275145\t那學姊聽後就當事人聽後立即表示我有保險但CP再次提醒那要智慧喔文莫也特別註記以上是我的噩夢這誰可以答覆我這個你沒有去調查嗎有事實嗎\n284649\t311779\t這狀況我們當然現在就是要透過訪談再一次的確認是不是這樣的狀況明航局知道這個事情嗎明航局知道這個事情嗎有去double check嗎我們是初步知道就是沒有叫救護車可是訪談的部分我們會配合勞動部我是說這一段這一段有有有有詢問過嗎有調查過嗎這個部分就是因為勞動部去的時候他有說他們會進一步訪談那我們也考慮到說對於\n314253\t333169\t勞動部去說他會進一步緩談所以這個範疇裡面到底是勞動部還是民航局我為什麼請兩兆起來就是想不要說這個部分是民航局在調查這個部分好像又不是又是勞動部可以調查然後現在在這個地方這個地方到底是你民航局還是你勞動部\n335367\t358912\t委員其實我覺得都不用分綿羊局跟勞動部啦齁其實這就是應該一起把所有現場的狀況跟經歷什麼東西給釐清啦齁那當然綿羊局這邊有他們的所管的法規我們有我們所管的法規可是我認為其實就是應該一起把這事情釐清啦我覺得這比較能夠符合社會的期待啦我就是不想這樣分嘛但是這樣垂尋起來就會有這樣的差異嘛對不對你知道我後面還在講什麼嗎\n360219\t385926\t我跟你們淘機有確認過機場救護車車輛雖然有收費但只要是緊急救護使用仍然是免費對不對好 疾病要付費也不是這個員工要付的費用這是基本認知啊怎麼會沒有人知道怎麼CP會講這樣的回應這個不你有調查嗎然後整個基礎內在執行或訓練中\n387737\t413113\t我覺得就是沒有完整的落實嘛 不然怎麼會機組人員掌握整個飛機的安全 勞動部 消防部可以容許這樣的事情發生 我也不分啊就你們兩個單位 為什麼可以讓這種事情發生然後再來 機組人員 尤其是機組人員共同指出的請病假問題只要請病假 績效就會墊底 甚至於假日忘日請假 扣分也會加重公視用績效來讓員工不敢請假 是我這個事情\n415558\t434517\t是否有這個事情 我不會分我請教勞動部 請教交通部還是勞動部 交通部 交通部 勞動部就是不知不覺已經很久了我們現在確實看到他的請假的規則應該是請假的規則裡面其實是有把這個請假來作為他其實獎懲的做法\n436420\t448587\t我在這邊具體要求啦齁希望勞動部 交通部一週內啦這個不需要到什麼兩個週還是一個月啦齁一週內就是把長榮內部的血汗勞動問題還有幫剛剛媒體這個報導如果是屬實的話相關的訓練執行的這個樣態 狀態啦齁整個報告一週內提到本委員會給委員會來做說明啦可不可以好 我們盡量\n463789\t491408\t我在搜尋勞動部的系統發現2022年期間長榮航空共備處分是24次總金額已經達到423萬最近就是剛剛你們講的啦最重要的一筆是在今年7月加班超時 招處分是100萬元而這100萬已經達到了計畫第79條就是2萬以上100萬以下的這個才華上限嘛我不曉得黃部長可以對這個事情有什麼看法那我再提供另外一個資料就一邊答覆\n492508\t514241\t長榮航空光建了114年 就剛剛裡面講的維護勞基法 性別平等工作法 公衛法等項目已經被划了288萬元其中工時休息日有關的花款高達270萬元就代表長榮航空長期就存在這種超時加班 未給足例價已經是一個結構性的問題\n517452\t539365\t財報跟相關的資料 長榮航空在2012年2013年的營收都超過2000億以上所以我們剛剛很多人都垂詢嘛這麼大的一個公司 這麼大的一個營收規模這樣的才華真的是不成比喻九牛一毛 不吞不養我再提供最後一個訊息給部長看桃園市 我想這個\n541347\t553315\t勞動基準法的事件統一裁判第一次是5萬到大大大大第七次才100萬這個如果是小餐廳小工廠我想沒有問題但遇到這種大企業大規模的營收\n554424\t579327\t實在是有很大的一個改進檢討的空間在對照113年有幾個維吾爾勞基華的慣患公司南山人壽險才划8次因業達古有限公司才划7次中皇航空也不枉多讓才划7次怎麼在空中揮的都有這些問題的存在\n583083\t609016\t好像要用更高的標準來面對這些航空公司不然他們會覺得這不是華清 這個是在繳歸會對不對這是顯然他把當成繳歸會的一個依據尤其航空公司是特許的行業是啊而且他在比賽時也被罰了幾次\n611960\t629066\t好像花不到那個幾次好像不到他們的營業規模的樣子一樣這種心態是很詭異的這種心態是很不足取的這種心態還標榜這樣的航空公司在飛行上有多麼的優越我覺得都非常慚愧啊\n632805\t652243\t所以我這邊特別要求勞動部必須啟動勞基法的相關修法對華澤部門必須全面來上修尤其面對大型企業必須要有嚇阻的能力反而不能再讓勞基法的相關的華館成為他們好像在繳規會這樣的一個慣性部長可以嗎是好最後幾點144\n655185\t677775\t你們的部長都已經講話了啦齁陳部長講說在幾萬呎的高空上很難預料會發生什麼事情也是呼籲民眾登機前要注意自己的身體狀況尤其飛行長達十幾個小時萬一身體出狀況是叫天天不靈叫地地不靈嘛延長空機主人到底在面對機上不論員工機師或乘客當發生緊急事件要如何面對\n679426\t708707\t甚至過去有community的這個案例齁可能面對傳染病史 機上人員都要如何回應這些應該一絲絲都可以說明得很清楚嘛 對不對所以可以跟他們舉航空公司來做更精進的措施但是今天你們的報告連一個字都沒有你們這個一絲絲的 欸 會不會報告是國建署是國建署 剛剛講 我剛剛講的這些機組人員的執行授訓包含\n709869\t737793\t機場的這個救護車相關的這樣的訊息連那個CP都不清楚一絲絲應該責無旁貸吧一絲絲應該有相關的報告出來讓我們知道你們扮演什麼樣的角色吧不是讓國健署丟這種報告出來吧明天可以丟出來吧 可以吧好 謝謝 各位請回 謝謝好 謝謝 下一位我們請\n","txt":"我今天從早上聽到現在職業了當的講長榮的問題我看到有幾個盲點\n我覺得越聽越奇怪然後越看也越奇怪齁這個事件工勤服務員應該不同於一般的勞工嘛這大家都有共識他在空氣上他是屬於一個很特殊的這樣的一個環境所以對於這樣的人員的要求SOP啦齁也就是說標準作為流程都有很高的標準並不是他非常高就要高標準他確實就是必須要要有更高標準來做相關的一些規範\n交通部的報告中有提到班機上有機組人員身體不適機上有調整組員任務但未有睡眠記錄等一下請局長回答覆全程並未通報機長或啟動衛星醫療系統也沒有廣播尋求機上醫師聯繫救護車緊急送醫等等到飛航任務結束後\n又位於在這個組員報告中註記這個組員有身體不適之情形也就是說基礎人員在身體不適已經有調整這個任務的情況之下表示當事人都已經非常不舒服囉無法正常的這個來執行職務的狀況之下他好像什麼該做SOP通通沒有做是不是這樣\n跟委員報告 因為我們昨天就是派同仁親自去長榮瞭解那確實 如果說機組員在飛機上有身體不適的話那因為這個是空服的組員所以他並沒有直接涉及到飛安 剛剛我們講的我不是談飛安 我是談他整個這個面對這事情的SOP嘛 這個是你們的調查嘛 對不對\n這個部分應該要註記 這個有利於這個公司對於組員的一個健康管理 後面的關懷的處理不是只有後面關懷的處理嘛 應該它整個該註記就要註記 該記錄就是要記錄嘛 對不對它都沒有註記 它都沒有記錄 那基本上民航局交通部可以做怎樣的一個處理\n我們這邊就是還在跟長榮這邊請他把細部調查出來就是說他這個部分應該是要註記然後我們會請他檢討那如果有違反相關規定的話我們會以民航法來處理好 謝謝部長你有聽到嗎我們要遭到勞檢嘛那目前交通部初期有針對這個部分結果他該做的SOP通通沒有做的情況之下勞動部這邊可以做怎樣處理因為這部分應該比較是依照民航局這邊AOR的規定\n這部分應該是依照他們AOR的規定那他比較不是在我們的勞動法規上面的要求可是我們還是會針對我們勞動法規的部分來去做現在是在做跟這些相關的組員在要做訪談的安排現在應該是在這個安排的階段那也包括跟工會的訪談 對\n我是想說交通部已經有把初步的這樣的一個調查先出來嘛對不對當然還是必須要再更詳細一點更深入一點的相關的一些調查的一個範疇跟認定嘛但我覺得勞動部既然已經要啟動專案勞警應該是可以一併來做相關的處置這第一點那第二點這個報導這是根據報告報導他是這麼講我們有三個\n輪流詢問那位學姊要不要背他但因為他身體已經達到有點無法控制的程度所以他太害怕他太害怕跌倒以至於不敢讓我們背只是言見狀例詢問地警是我能叫救護車不過地警回應可以 要的話可以馬上叫他們還在去徵詢CP的意見那CP則回應是可以啊但他知道救護車要智慧嗎確定嗎\n那學姊聽後就當事人聽後立即表示我有保險但CP再次提醒那要智慧喔文莫也特別註記以上是我的噩夢這誰可以答覆我這個你沒有去調查嗎有事實嗎\n這狀況我們當然現在就是要透過訪談再一次的確認是不是這樣的狀況明航局知道這個事情嗎明航局知道這個事情嗎有去double check嗎我們是初步知道就是沒有叫救護車可是訪談的部分我們會配合勞動部我是說這一段這一段有有有有詢問過嗎有調查過嗎這個部分就是因為勞動部去的時候他有說他們會進一步訪談那我們也考慮到說對於\n勞動部去說他會進一步緩談所以這個範疇裡面到底是勞動部還是民航局我為什麼請兩兆起來就是想不要說這個部分是民航局在調查這個部分好像又不是又是勞動部可以調查然後現在在這個地方這個地方到底是你民航局還是你勞動部\n委員其實我覺得都不用分綿羊局跟勞動部啦齁其實這就是應該一起把所有現場的狀況跟經歷什麼東西給釐清啦齁那當然綿羊局這邊有他們的所管的法規我們有我們所管的法規可是我認為其實就是應該一起把這事情釐清啦我覺得這比較能夠符合社會的期待啦我就是不想這樣分嘛但是這樣垂尋起來就會有這樣的差異嘛對不對你知道我後面還在講什麼嗎\n我跟你們淘機有確認過機場救護車車輛雖然有收費但只要是緊急救護使用仍然是免費對不對好 疾病要付費也不是這個員工要付的費用這是基本認知啊怎麼會沒有人知道怎麼CP會講這樣的回應這個不你有調查嗎然後整個基礎內在執行或訓練中\n我覺得就是沒有完整的落實嘛 不然怎麼會機組人員掌握整個飛機的安全 勞動部 消防部可以容許這樣的事情發生 我也不分啊就你們兩個單位 為什麼可以讓這種事情發生然後再來 機組人員 尤其是機組人員共同指出的請病假問題只要請病假 績效就會墊底 甚至於假日忘日請假 扣分也會加重公視用績效來讓員工不敢請假 是我這個事情\n是否有這個事情 我不會分我請教勞動部 請教交通部還是勞動部 交通部 交通部 勞動部就是不知不覺已經很久了我們現在確實看到他的請假的規則應該是請假的規則裡面其實是有把這個請假來作為他其實獎懲的做法\n我在這邊具體要求啦齁希望勞動部 交通部一週內啦這個不需要到什麼兩個週還是一個月啦齁一週內就是把長榮內部的血汗勞動問題還有幫剛剛媒體這個報導如果是屬實的話相關的訓練執行的這個樣態 狀態啦齁整個報告一週內提到本委員會給委員會來做說明啦可不可以好 我們盡量\n我在搜尋勞動部的系統發現2022年期間長榮航空共備處分是24次總金額已經達到423萬最近就是剛剛你們講的啦最重要的一筆是在今年7月加班超時 招處分是100萬元而這100萬已經達到了計畫第79條就是2萬以上100萬以下的這個才華上限嘛我不曉得黃部長可以對這個事情有什麼看法那我再提供另外一個資料就一邊答覆\n長榮航空光建了114年 就剛剛裡面講的維護勞基法 性別平等工作法 公衛法等項目已經被划了288萬元其中工時休息日有關的花款高達270萬元就代表長榮航空長期就存在這種超時加班 未給足例價已經是一個結構性的問題\n財報跟相關的資料 長榮航空在2012年2013年的營收都超過2000億以上所以我們剛剛很多人都垂詢嘛這麼大的一個公司 這麼大的一個營收規模這樣的才華真的是不成比喻九牛一毛 不吞不養我再提供最後一個訊息給部長看桃園市 我想這個\n勞動基準法的事件統一裁判第一次是5萬到大大大大第七次才100萬這個如果是小餐廳小工廠我想沒有問題但遇到這種大企業大規模的營收\n實在是有很大的一個改進檢討的空間在對照113年有幾個維吾爾勞基華的慣患公司南山人壽險才划8次因業達古有限公司才划7次中皇航空也不枉多讓才划7次怎麼在空中揮的都有這些問題的存在\n好像要用更高的標準來面對這些航空公司不然他們會覺得這不是華清 這個是在繳歸會對不對這是顯然他把當成繳歸會的一個依據尤其航空公司是特許的行業是啊而且他在比賽時也被罰了幾次\n好像花不到那個幾次好像不到他們的營業規模的樣子一樣這種心態是很詭異的這種心態是很不足取的這種心態還標榜這樣的航空公司在飛行上有多麼的優越我覺得都非常慚愧啊\n所以我這邊特別要求勞動部必須啟動勞基法的相關修法對華澤部門必須全面來上修尤其面對大型企業必須要有嚇阻的能力反而不能再讓勞基法的相關的華館成為他們好像在繳規會這樣的一個慣性部長可以嗎是好最後幾點144\n你們的部長都已經講話了啦齁陳部長講說在幾萬呎的高空上很難預料會發生什麼事情也是呼籲民眾登機前要注意自己的身體狀況尤其飛行長達十幾個小時萬一身體出狀況是叫天天不靈叫地地不靈嘛延長空機主人到底在面對機上不論員工機師或乘客當發生緊急事件要如何面對\n甚至過去有community的這個案例齁可能面對傳染病史 機上人員都要如何回應這些應該一絲絲都可以說明得很清楚嘛 對不對所以可以跟他們舉航空公司來做更精進的措施但是今天你們的報告連一個字都沒有你們這個一絲絲的 欸 會不會報告是國建署是國建署 剛剛講 我剛剛講的這些機組人員的執行授訓包含\n機場的這個救護車相關的這樣的訊息連那個CP都不清楚一絲絲應該責無旁貸吧一絲絲應該有相關的報告出來讓我們知道你們扮演什麼樣的角色吧不是讓國健署丟這種報告出來吧明天可以丟出來吧 可以吧好 謝謝 各位請回 謝謝好 謝謝 下一位我們請\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:04.772\n我今天從早上聽到現在職業了當的講長榮的問題我看到有幾個盲點\n\n00:26.693 --> 00:54.190\n我覺得越聽越奇怪然後越看也越奇怪齁這個事件工勤服務員應該不同於一般的勞工嘛這大家都有共識他在空氣上他是屬於一個很特殊的這樣的一個環境所以對於這樣的人員的要求SOP啦齁也就是說標準作為流程都有很高的標準並不是他非常高就要高標準他確實就是必須要要有更高標準來做相關的一些規範\n\n00:55.239 --> 01:22.610\n交通部的報告中有提到班機上有機組人員身體不適機上有調整組員任務但未有睡眠記錄等一下請局長回答覆全程並未通報機長或啟動衛星醫療系統也沒有廣播尋求機上醫師聯繫救護車緊急送醫等等到飛航任務結束後\n\n01:23.991 --> 01:47.498\n又位於在這個組員報告中註記這個組員有身體不適之情形也就是說基礎人員在身體不適已經有調整這個任務的情況之下表示當事人都已經非常不舒服囉無法正常的這個來執行職務的狀況之下他好像什麼該做SOP通通沒有做是不是這樣\n\n01:49.656 --> 02:12.356\n跟委員報告因為我們昨天就是派同仁親自去長榮瞭解那確實如果說機組員在飛機上有身體不適的話那因為這個是空服的組員所以他並沒有直接涉及到飛安剛剛我們講的我不是談飛安我是談他整個這個面對這事情的SOP嘛這個是你們的調查嘛對不對\n\n02:14.057 --> 02:35.611\n這個部分應該要註記這個有利於這個公司對於組員的一個健康管理後面的關懷的處理不是只有後面關懷的處理嘛應該它整個該註記就要註記該記錄就是要記錄嘛對不對它都沒有註記它都沒有記錄那基本上民航局交通部可以做怎樣的一個處理\n\n02:36.550 --> 03:04.437\n我們這邊就是還在跟長榮這邊請他把細部調查出來就是說他這個部分應該是要註記然後我們會請他檢討那如果有違反相關規定的話我們會以民航法來處理好謝謝部長你有聽到嗎我們要遭到勞檢嘛那目前交通部初期有針對這個部分結果他該做的SOP通通沒有做的情況之下勞動部這邊可以做怎樣處理因為這部分應該比較是依照民航局這邊AOR的規定\n\n03:05.541 --> 03:25.773\n這部分應該是依照他們AOR的規定那他比較不是在我們的勞動法規上面的要求可是我們還是會針對我們勞動法規的部分來去做現在是在做跟這些相關的組員在要做訪談的安排現在應該是在這個安排的階段那也包括跟工會的訪談對\n\n03:27.478 --> 03:52.395\n我是想說交通部已經有把初步的這樣的一個調查先出來嘛對不對當然還是必須要再更詳細一點更深入一點的相關的一些調查的一個範疇跟認定嘛但我覺得勞動部既然已經要啟動專案勞警應該是可以一併來做相關的處置這第一點那第二點這個報導這是根據報告報導他是這麼講我們有三個\n\n03:57.899 --> 04:18.857\n輪流詢問那位學姊要不要背他但因為他身體已經達到有點無法控制的程度所以他太害怕他太害怕跌倒以至於不敢讓我們背只是言見狀例詢問地警是我能叫救護車不過地警回應可以要的話可以馬上叫他們還在去徵詢CP的意見那CP則回應是可以啊但他知道救護車要智慧嗎確定嗎\n\n04:22.981 --> 04:35.145\n那學姊聽後就當事人聽後立即表示我有保險但CP再次提醒那要智慧喔文莫也特別註記以上是我的噩夢這誰可以答覆我這個你沒有去調查嗎有事實嗎\n\n04:44.649 --> 05:11.779\n這狀況我們當然現在就是要透過訪談再一次的確認是不是這樣的狀況明航局知道這個事情嗎明航局知道這個事情嗎有去doublecheck嗎我們是初步知道就是沒有叫救護車可是訪談的部分我們會配合勞動部我是說這一段這一段有有有有詢問過嗎有調查過嗎這個部分就是因為勞動部去的時候他有說他們會進一步訪談那我們也考慮到說對於\n\n05:14.253 --> 05:33.169\n勞動部去說他會進一步緩談所以這個範疇裡面到底是勞動部還是民航局我為什麼請兩兆起來就是想不要說這個部分是民航局在調查這個部分好像又不是又是勞動部可以調查然後現在在這個地方這個地方到底是你民航局還是你勞動部\n\n05:35.367 --> 05:58.912\n委員其實我覺得都不用分綿羊局跟勞動部啦齁其實這就是應該一起把所有現場的狀況跟經歷什麼東西給釐清啦齁那當然綿羊局這邊有他們的所管的法規我們有我們所管的法規可是我認為其實就是應該一起把這事情釐清啦我覺得這比較能夠符合社會的期待啦我就是不想這樣分嘛但是這樣垂尋起來就會有這樣的差異嘛對不對你知道我後面還在講什麼嗎\n\n06:00.219 --> 06:25.926\n我跟你們淘機有確認過機場救護車車輛雖然有收費但只要是緊急救護使用仍然是免費對不對好疾病要付費也不是這個員工要付的費用這是基本認知啊怎麼會沒有人知道怎麼CP會講這樣的回應這個不你有調查嗎然後整個基礎內在執行或訓練中\n\n06:27.737 --> 06:53.113\n我覺得就是沒有完整的落實嘛不然怎麼會機組人員掌握整個飛機的安全勞動部消防部可以容許這樣的事情發生我也不分啊就你們兩個單位為什麼可以讓這種事情發生然後再來機組人員尤其是機組人員共同指出的請病假問題只要請病假績效就會墊底甚至於假日忘日請假扣分也會加重公視用績效來讓員工不敢請假是我這個事情\n\n06:55.558 --> 07:14.517\n是否有這個事情我不會分我請教勞動部請教交通部還是勞動部交通部交通部勞動部就是不知不覺已經很久了我們現在確實看到他的請假的規則應該是請假的規則裡面其實是有把這個請假來作為他其實獎懲的做法\n\n07:16.420 --> 07:28.587\n我在這邊具體要求啦齁希望勞動部交通部一週內啦這個不需要到什麼兩個週還是一個月啦齁一週內就是把長榮內部的血汗勞動問題還有幫剛剛媒體這個報導如果是屬實的話相關的訓練執行的這個樣態狀態啦齁整個報告一週內提到本委員會給委員會來做說明啦可不可以好我們盡量\n\n07:43.789 --> 08:11.408\n我在搜尋勞動部的系統發現2022年期間長榮航空共備處分是24次總金額已經達到423萬最近就是剛剛你們講的啦最重要的一筆是在今年7月加班超時招處分是100萬元而這100萬已經達到了計畫第79條就是2萬以上100萬以下的這個才華上限嘛我不曉得黃部長可以對這個事情有什麼看法那我再提供另外一個資料就一邊答覆\n\n08:12.508 --> 08:34.241\n長榮航空光建了114年就剛剛裡面講的維護勞基法性別平等工作法公衛法等項目已經被划了288萬元其中工時休息日有關的花款高達270萬元就代表長榮航空長期就存在這種超時加班未給足例價已經是一個結構性的問題\n\n08:37.452 --> 08:59.365\n財報跟相關的資料長榮航空在2012年2013年的營收都超過2000億以上所以我們剛剛很多人都垂詢嘛這麼大的一個公司這麼大的一個營收規模這樣的才華真的是不成比喻九牛一毛不吞不養我再提供最後一個訊息給部長看桃園市我想這個\n\n09:01.347 --> 09:13.315\n勞動基準法的事件統一裁判第一次是5萬到大大大大第七次才100萬這個如果是小餐廳小工廠我想沒有問題但遇到這種大企業大規模的營收\n\n09:14.424 --> 09:39.327\n實在是有很大的一個改進檢討的空間在對照113年有幾個維吾爾勞基華的慣患公司南山人壽險才划8次因業達古有限公司才划7次中皇航空也不枉多讓才划7次怎麼在空中揮的都有這些問題的存在\n\n09:43.083 --> 10:09.016\n好像要用更高的標準來面對這些航空公司不然他們會覺得這不是華清這個是在繳歸會對不對這是顯然他把當成繳歸會的一個依據尤其航空公司是特許的行業是啊而且他在比賽時也被罰了幾次\n\n10:11.960 --> 10:29.066\n好像花不到那個幾次好像不到他們的營業規模的樣子一樣這種心態是很詭異的這種心態是很不足取的這種心態還標榜這樣的航空公司在飛行上有多麼的優越我覺得都非常慚愧啊\n\n10:32.805 --> 10:52.243\n所以我這邊特別要求勞動部必須啟動勞基法的相關修法對華澤部門必須全面來上修尤其面對大型企業必須要有嚇阻的能力反而不能再讓勞基法的相關的華館成為他們好像在繳規會這樣的一個慣性部長可以嗎是好最後幾點144\n\n10:55.185 --> 11:17.775\n你們的部長都已經講話了啦齁陳部長講說在幾萬呎的高空上很難預料會發生什麼事情也是呼籲民眾登機前要注意自己的身體狀況尤其飛行長達十幾個小時萬一身體出狀況是叫天天不靈叫地地不靈嘛延長空機主人到底在面對機上不論員工機師或乘客當發生緊急事件要如何面對\n\n11:19.426 --> 11:48.707\n甚至過去有community的這個案例齁可能面對傳染病史機上人員都要如何回應這些應該一絲絲都可以說明得很清楚嘛對不對所以可以跟他們舉航空公司來做更精進的措施但是今天你們的報告連一個字都沒有你們這個一絲絲的欸會不會報告是國建署是國建署剛剛講我剛剛講的這些機組人員的執行授訓包含\n\n11:49.869 --> 12:17.793\n機場的這個救護車相關的這樣的訊息連那個CP都不清楚一絲絲應該責無旁貸吧一絲絲應該有相關的報告出來讓我們知道你們扮演什麼樣的角色吧不是讓國健署丟這種報告出來吧明天可以丟出來吧可以吧好謝謝各位請回謝謝好謝謝下一位我們請\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":4.772,"text":"我今天從早上聽到現在職業了當的講長榮的問題我看到有幾個盲點"},{"start":26.693,"end":54.19,"text":"我覺得越聽越奇怪然後越看也越奇怪齁這個事件工勤服務員應該不同於一般的勞工嘛這大家都有共識他在空氣上他是屬於一個很特殊的這樣的一個環境所以對於這樣的人員的要求SOP啦齁也就是說標準作為流程都有很高的標準並不是他非常高就要高標準他確實就是必須要要有更高標準來做相關的一些規範"},{"start":55.239,"end":82.61,"text":"交通部的報告中有提到班機上有機組人員身體不適機上有調整組員任務但未有睡眠記錄等一下請局長回答覆全程並未通報機長或啟動衛星醫療系統也沒有廣播尋求機上醫師聯繫救護車緊急送醫等等到飛航任務結束後"},{"start":83.991,"end":107.498,"text":"又位於在這個組員報告中註記這個組員有身體不適之情形也就是說基礎人員在身體不適已經有調整這個任務的情況之下表示當事人都已經非常不舒服囉無法正常的這個來執行職務的狀況之下他好像什麼該做SOP通通沒有做是不是這樣"},{"start":109.656,"end":132.356,"text":"跟委員報告 因為我們昨天就是派同仁親自去長榮瞭解那確實 如果說機組員在飛機上有身體不適的話那因為這個是空服的組員所以他並沒有直接涉及到飛安 剛剛我們講的我不是談飛安 我是談他整個這個面對這事情的SOP嘛 這個是你們的調查嘛 對不對"},{"start":134.057,"end":155.611,"text":"這個部分應該要註記 這個有利於這個公司對於組員的一個健康管理 後面的關懷的處理不是只有後面關懷的處理嘛 應該它整個該註記就要註記 該記錄就是要記錄嘛 對不對它都沒有註記 它都沒有記錄 那基本上民航局交通部可以做怎樣的一個處理"},{"start":156.55,"end":184.437,"text":"我們這邊就是還在跟長榮這邊請他把細部調查出來就是說他這個部分應該是要註記然後我們會請他檢討那如果有違反相關規定的話我們會以民航法來處理好 謝謝部長你有聽到嗎我們要遭到勞檢嘛那目前交通部初期有針對這個部分結果他該做的SOP通通沒有做的情況之下勞動部這邊可以做怎樣處理因為這部分應該比較是依照民航局這邊AOR的規定"},{"start":185.541,"end":205.773,"text":"這部分應該是依照他們AOR的規定那他比較不是在我們的勞動法規上面的要求可是我們還是會針對我們勞動法規的部分來去做現在是在做跟這些相關的組員在要做訪談的安排現在應該是在這個安排的階段那也包括跟工會的訪談 對"},{"start":207.478,"end":232.395,"text":"我是想說交通部已經有把初步的這樣的一個調查先出來嘛對不對當然還是必須要再更詳細一點更深入一點的相關的一些調查的一個範疇跟認定嘛但我覺得勞動部既然已經要啟動專案勞警應該是可以一併來做相關的處置這第一點那第二點這個報導這是根據報告報導他是這麼講我們有三個"},{"start":237.899,"end":258.857,"text":"輪流詢問那位學姊要不要背他但因為他身體已經達到有點無法控制的程度所以他太害怕他太害怕跌倒以至於不敢讓我們背只是言見狀例詢問地警是我能叫救護車不過地警回應可以 要的話可以馬上叫他們還在去徵詢CP的意見那CP則回應是可以啊但他知道救護車要智慧嗎確定嗎"},{"start":262.981,"end":275.145,"text":"那學姊聽後就當事人聽後立即表示我有保險但CP再次提醒那要智慧喔文莫也特別註記以上是我的噩夢這誰可以答覆我這個你沒有去調查嗎有事實嗎"},{"start":284.649,"end":311.779,"text":"這狀況我們當然現在就是要透過訪談再一次的確認是不是這樣的狀況明航局知道這個事情嗎明航局知道這個事情嗎有去double check嗎我們是初步知道就是沒有叫救護車可是訪談的部分我們會配合勞動部我是說這一段這一段有有有有詢問過嗎有調查過嗎這個部分就是因為勞動部去的時候他有說他們會進一步訪談那我們也考慮到說對於"},{"start":314.253,"end":333.169,"text":"勞動部去說他會進一步緩談所以這個範疇裡面到底是勞動部還是民航局我為什麼請兩兆起來就是想不要說這個部分是民航局在調查這個部分好像又不是又是勞動部可以調查然後現在在這個地方這個地方到底是你民航局還是你勞動部"},{"start":335.367,"end":358.912,"text":"委員其實我覺得都不用分綿羊局跟勞動部啦齁其實這就是應該一起把所有現場的狀況跟經歷什麼東西給釐清啦齁那當然綿羊局這邊有他們的所管的法規我們有我們所管的法規可是我認為其實就是應該一起把這事情釐清啦我覺得這比較能夠符合社會的期待啦我就是不想這樣分嘛但是這樣垂尋起來就會有這樣的差異嘛對不對你知道我後面還在講什麼嗎"},{"start":360.219,"end":385.926,"text":"我跟你們淘機有確認過機場救護車車輛雖然有收費但只要是緊急救護使用仍然是免費對不對好 疾病要付費也不是這個員工要付的費用這是基本認知啊怎麼會沒有人知道怎麼CP會講這樣的回應這個不你有調查嗎然後整個基礎內在執行或訓練中"},{"start":387.737,"end":413.113,"text":"我覺得就是沒有完整的落實嘛 不然怎麼會機組人員掌握整個飛機的安全 勞動部 消防部可以容許這樣的事情發生 我也不分啊就你們兩個單位 為什麼可以讓這種事情發生然後再來 機組人員 尤其是機組人員共同指出的請病假問題只要請病假 績效就會墊底 甚至於假日忘日請假 扣分也會加重公視用績效來讓員工不敢請假 是我這個事情"},{"start":415.558,"end":434.517,"text":"是否有這個事情 我不會分我請教勞動部 請教交通部還是勞動部 交通部 交通部 勞動部就是不知不覺已經很久了我們現在確實看到他的請假的規則應該是請假的規則裡面其實是有把這個請假來作為他其實獎懲的做法"},{"start":436.42,"end":448.587,"text":"我在這邊具體要求啦齁希望勞動部 交通部一週內啦這個不需要到什麼兩個週還是一個月啦齁一週內就是把長榮內部的血汗勞動問題還有幫剛剛媒體這個報導如果是屬實的話相關的訓練執行的這個樣態 狀態啦齁整個報告一週內提到本委員會給委員會來做說明啦可不可以好 我們盡量"},{"start":463.789,"end":491.408,"text":"我在搜尋勞動部的系統發現2022年期間長榮航空共備處分是24次總金額已經達到423萬最近就是剛剛你們講的啦最重要的一筆是在今年7月加班超時 招處分是100萬元而這100萬已經達到了計畫第79條就是2萬以上100萬以下的這個才華上限嘛我不曉得黃部長可以對這個事情有什麼看法那我再提供另外一個資料就一邊答覆"},{"start":492.508,"end":514.241,"text":"長榮航空光建了114年 就剛剛裡面講的維護勞基法 性別平等工作法 公衛法等項目已經被划了288萬元其中工時休息日有關的花款高達270萬元就代表長榮航空長期就存在這種超時加班 未給足例價已經是一個結構性的問題"},{"start":517.452,"end":539.365,"text":"財報跟相關的資料 長榮航空在2012年2013年的營收都超過2000億以上所以我們剛剛很多人都垂詢嘛這麼大的一個公司 這麼大的一個營收規模這樣的才華真的是不成比喻九牛一毛 不吞不養我再提供最後一個訊息給部長看桃園市 我想這個"},{"start":541.347,"end":553.315,"text":"勞動基準法的事件統一裁判第一次是5萬到大大大大第七次才100萬這個如果是小餐廳小工廠我想沒有問題但遇到這種大企業大規模的營收"},{"start":554.424,"end":579.327,"text":"實在是有很大的一個改進檢討的空間在對照113年有幾個維吾爾勞基華的慣患公司南山人壽險才划8次因業達古有限公司才划7次中皇航空也不枉多讓才划7次怎麼在空中揮的都有這些問題的存在"},{"start":583.083,"end":609.016,"text":"好像要用更高的標準來面對這些航空公司不然他們會覺得這不是華清 這個是在繳歸會對不對這是顯然他把當成繳歸會的一個依據尤其航空公司是特許的行業是啊而且他在比賽時也被罰了幾次"},{"start":611.96,"end":629.066,"text":"好像花不到那個幾次好像不到他們的營業規模的樣子一樣這種心態是很詭異的這種心態是很不足取的這種心態還標榜這樣的航空公司在飛行上有多麼的優越我覺得都非常慚愧啊"},{"start":632.805,"end":652.243,"text":"所以我這邊特別要求勞動部必須啟動勞基法的相關修法對華澤部門必須全面來上修尤其面對大型企業必須要有嚇阻的能力反而不能再讓勞基法的相關的華館成為他們好像在繳規會這樣的一個慣性部長可以嗎是好最後幾點144"},{"start":655.185,"end":677.775,"text":"你們的部長都已經講話了啦齁陳部長講說在幾萬呎的高空上很難預料會發生什麼事情也是呼籲民眾登機前要注意自己的身體狀況尤其飛行長達十幾個小時萬一身體出狀況是叫天天不靈叫地地不靈嘛延長空機主人到底在面對機上不論員工機師或乘客當發生緊急事件要如何面對"},{"start":679.426,"end":708.707,"text":"甚至過去有community的這個案例齁可能面對傳染病史 機上人員都要如何回應這些應該一絲絲都可以說明得很清楚嘛 對不對所以可以跟他們舉航空公司來做更精進的措施但是今天你們的報告連一個字都沒有你們這個一絲絲的 欸 會不會報告是國建署是國建署 剛剛講 我剛剛講的這些機組人員的執行授訓包含"},{"start":709.869,"end":737.793,"text":"機場的這個救護車相關的這樣的訊息連那個CP都不清楚一絲絲應該責無旁貸吧一絲絲應該有相關的報告出來讓我們知道你們扮演什麼樣的角色吧不是讓國健署丟這種報告出來吧明天可以丟出來吧 可以吧好 謝謝 各位請回 謝謝好 謝謝 下一位我們請"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":706,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（11時20分）謝謝主席。有請洪部長、民航局局長、航政司司長、醫事司司長。"],["主席：請洪部長、民航局、航政司、醫事司。"],["洪部長申翰：劉委員早。"],["劉委員建國：部長早。今天從早上聽到現在，我直接了當講長榮的問題，我是看到有幾個盲點，我覺得越聽越奇怪，也越看越奇怪。這個事件中，空勤服務員應該不同於一般勞工，這點大家都有共識。他在航空器上，是屬於一個很特殊的環境，所以對這類人員的要求SOP，也就是標準作業流程，都有很高的標準，並不是他飛得很高，就要高標準，確實就是必須要有更高標準來做相關的一些規範。","交通部的報告中有提到，班機上有機組人員身體不適，機上有調整組員任務，但未有書面紀錄。這點等一下請局長答復。全程並未通報機長或啟動衛星醫療系統，也沒有廣播尋求機上醫師、聯繫救護車緊急送醫等；等到飛航任務結束後，又未於組員報告中註記這個組員有身體不適之情形。也就是說，機組人員身體不適，已經有調整任務，表示當事人已經非常不舒服，在無法正常執行職務的狀況之下，但好像該做什麼SOP通通都沒有做，是不是這樣？"],["何局長淑萍：跟委員報告，我們昨天派同仁親自去長榮了解，如果機組員確實在飛機上有身體不適，因為是空服的組員，並沒有直接涉及到飛安。剛剛我們講因為這班飛機……"],["劉委員建國：我不是談飛安，我是談面對這整個事情的SOP，這是你們的調查，對不對？"],["何局長淑萍：對，我們會建議這個部分應該要註記，這有利於公司對於組員的健康管理以及後面關懷的處理。"],["劉委員建國：不是只有後面關懷的處理。"],["何局長淑萍：對，這整個……"],["劉委員建國：該註記就要註記，該記錄就是要記錄，對不對？他都沒有註記、都沒有記錄，基本上民航局、交通部可以怎樣處理？"],["何局長淑萍：我們還在請長榮細部調查，這部分應該是要註記，我們會請它檢討，如果有違反相關規定，會依民航法來處理。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。","部長，你有聽到嗎？我們要進行專案勞檢。目前交通部初期有針對這個部分，就是他該做的SOP通通沒有做，勞動部可以怎樣處理？"],["洪部長申翰：因為這部分應該是依照民航局AOR的規定，比較不是勞動法規的要求，可是我們還是會針對勞工法規的部分來做，現在應該是在安排相關組員訪談的階段，也包括跟工會的訪談。"],["劉委員建國：我是想說交通部已經把初步的調查先提出來，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：當然還是必須要再有更詳細一點、更深入一點的相關調查的範疇跟認定，我覺得勞動部既然已經要啟動專案勞檢，應該可以一併來做相關的處置。這是第一點。","第二點，根據報導是這麼講：「我們3個有輪流詢問那位學姐要不要背她，但因為她身體已經達到有點無法控制的程度，她太害怕跌倒以致於不敢讓我們背」，直言見狀立刻詢問地勤是否能叫救護車？不過地勤回應：「可以，要的話可以馬上叫。」他們還再去徵詢CP的意見，CP則回應：「是可以啊，但她知道救護車要自費嗎？確定嗎？」學姐聽後，就當事人聽後，立即表示「我有保險」，但CP再次提醒「那要自費喔」，文末特別註記「以上是我的惡夢」。","誰可以答復我，這個你們有去調查嗎？有事實嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：這個狀況，我們現在當然就是要透過訪談，再一次的確認是不是這樣的狀況。"],["劉委員建國：民航局知道這個事情嗎？民航局知道這個事情嗎？有去double check嗎？"],["何局長淑萍：有，我們初步知道就是沒有叫救護車，可是訪談的部分，我們會配合勞動部，因為……"],["劉委員建國：我是說這一段，這一段有詢問過嗎？有調查過嗎？"],["何局長淑萍：關於這個部分，因為勞動部有說會進一步訪談，我們也考慮到避免對機組員干擾……"],["劉委員建國：勞動部說會進一步訪談，所以這個範疇到底是勞動部還是民航局？"],["何局長淑萍：應該是……"],["劉委員建國：我為什麼請兩造起來，就是因為這個部分是民航局在調查，這個部分好像又不是，是勞動部可以調查，然後現在這個地方到底是民航局還是勞動部？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，其實我覺得都不用分民航局或勞動部，現在就是應該一起把所有現場的狀況跟經歷什麼釐清。當然，民航局有他們所管的法規，我們有我們所管的法規，可是我認為就是應該一起把這件事情釐清，這比較能夠符合社會的期待。"],["劉委員建國：我就是不想這樣分嘛！但是這樣垂詢起來，就會有這樣的差異，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["劉委員建國：你知道我後面要講什麼嗎？我跟桃機確認過，機場救護車雖然有收費，但只要是緊急救護使用，仍然是免費，對不對？即便要付費，也不是這個員工要付的費用，這是基本認知，怎麼會沒有人知道？怎麼CP會講出這樣的回應？這個部分你有調查嗎？","然後整個機組人員在執勤或訓練中，我覺得就是沒有完整的落實，不然怎麼會機組人員掌握整個飛機的安全，勞動部、交通部可以容許這樣的事情發生？我也不分了，就你們兩個單位為什麼可以讓這種事情發生？","再來，機組人員，尤其是這些機組人員共同指出請病假的問題，只要請病假，績效就會墊底，甚至假日、旺日請假也會加重扣分，公司用績效讓員工不敢請假，是否有這個事情？是否有這個事情？我不會分，我請教勞動部、請教交通部，還是勞動部／交通部、交通部／勞動部不知不覺已經很久了？"],["洪部長申翰：我們現在確實看到應該是它的請假規則裡有把請假作為獎懲的做法。"],["劉委員建國：我在這邊具體要求，希望勞動部、交通部一週內，這個不需要到什麼兩週還是一個月，一週內把長榮內部的血汗勞動問題，還有剛剛這則媒體報導如果屬實，以及相關的訓練、執勤樣態的整個報告，一週內提到本委員會來說明，可不可以？"],["洪部長申翰：好，我們盡量。"],["劉委員建國：好。","我在搜尋勞動部的系統，發現2020年迄今長榮航空共被處分24次，總金額已經達到423萬元。最近，就剛剛你們講的，最重的一筆是在今年7月，加班超時遭處分100萬元。而這100萬元已經達到勞基法第七十九條2萬元以上、100萬元以下的裁罰上限。我不曉得洪部長對這個事情有什麼看法？","我再提供另外一個資料，部長就一併答復。長榮航空光今年，就是114年，你們剛剛講的，違反勞基法、性別平等工作法、工會法等項目，已經被罰了288萬元，其中工時休息日有關的罰款高達270萬元。我覺得就代表長榮航空長期存在超時加班、未給足例假，已經是一個結構性的問題。根據財報跟相關資料，長榮航空在112年、113年的營收都超過2,000億元以上。剛才很多委員都垂詢，這麼大的公司、這麼大的營收規模，這樣的裁罰真的是不成比例，九牛一毛，不痛不癢！","我再提供最後一個訊息給部長看，桃園市違反勞動基準法事件的統一裁罰基準，第一次是5萬元，到了第七次才100萬元，如果是針對小餐廳、小工廠，我想沒有問題，但是遇到這種大企業大規模的營收，實在是有很大改進、檢討的空間。再對照113年有幾個違反勞基法的慣犯公司，南山人壽裁罰8次，英業達股份有限公司裁罰7次，中華航空也不遑多讓，裁罰7次，怎麼在空中飛的都有這些問題存在？好像要用更高的標準來面對這些航空公司，不然他們會覺得這不是罰金，而是在繳規費，對不對？顯然他們把這些裁罰當成繳規費的依據。"],["洪部長申翰：尤其航空公司是特許的行業。"],["劉委員建國：是啊！而且還在比賽誰被罰了幾次，好像罰不到幾次，不到他們營業規模的樣子。這種心態是很詭異的、這種心態是很不足取的，有這種心態還標榜他們的航空公司在飛行上有多麼優越，我都覺得非常慚愧！","我在這邊特別再要求勞動部，必須啟動勞基法的相關修法，希望對罰則部分必須全面上修，尤其面對大型企業必須要有嚇阻的能力，不能再讓勞基法的相關罰款變成大型企業繳規費的慣性。部長，可以嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：是："],["劉委員建國：好。","最後一點，醫事司，你們的部長都已經講話了，石部長說在幾萬呎的高空上很難預料會發生什麼事情，呼籲民眾在登機前要注意自己的身體狀況，尤其飛行長達十幾個小時，萬一身體出狀況，是叫天天不應，叫地地不靈。航空公司機組人員到底在面對機上不論員工、機師或乘客，當發生緊急事件要如何面對，甚至過去有COVID-19的案例，可能面對有人突然病死，機上人員要如何回應。關於這些，醫事司應該都可以說明得很清楚，對不對？可以跟民航局和航空公司來做更精進的措施，可是今天你們的報告中連一個字都沒有。衛福部的報告是國健署，我剛剛講的這些機組人員的執勤、受訓，包含機場救護車相關的訊息，連一個CP都不清楚，醫事司應該責無旁貸吧？"],["郭專門委員威中：好。"],["劉委員建國：醫事司應該有相關的報告出來，讓我們知道你們扮演什麼樣的角色吧？不是讓國健署丟這種報告出來吧？"],["郭專門委員威中：好的，跟委員報告，我們回去整理。"],["劉委員建國：明天可以丟出來吧？"],["郭專門委員威中：好。"],["劉委員建國：可以吧？好，謝謝。各位請回，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請涂權吉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":204,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-4","speakers":["劉建國","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","翁曉玲","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林月琴","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","楊曜","張雅琳","洪孟楷","范雲","盧縣一","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148502_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場\n健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員魯明\n哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文\n修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員\n李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業\n安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十一) 委員翁曉玲等23 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五\n條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 十三) 委員劉建國等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員沈發\n惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正\n草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員\n王鴻薇等19 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 委員郭昱晴等17 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案【綜合詢答】","agenda_id":"1148502_00001"}}}