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\"start\": 868.283, \"end\": 868.504, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 868.504, \"end\": 868.524, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,233 --> 00:00:08,034\n好謝謝主席有請我們數位部我們林部長林部長請\n\n2\n00:00:13,150 --> 00:00:37,516\n國務委員早安部長好你們現在是要數位部還是書發部簡稱我們現在叫數位發展部簡稱書發部因為我們要強調發展就是現在要全稱就對了沒有我們是書發部因為數位的話但是其實這都不重要內容物比較重要首先我們直接看一下這有件事情我說你好或者你自己說你好都不太客觀\n\n3\n00:00:38,436 --> 00:01:02,370\n那事實上在大概這過去19年20年來從2005年開始在日本早稻田大學對於國際數位政府的開始有一個評比有個評比特別有注意到數位這個我們事務發布在2002年8月27號成立8月我記得那時候成立的時候我正好在交通委員會\n\n4\n00:01:03,351 --> 00:01:25,106\n哇其實我是很驚豔也很驚嚇不到三個月之後就看到我們這個當時的速發部舉行記者會啊真的有慶功宴等級啊所以我們得到了早稻農研大學當年2022年社會政府評比咧全台灣打國際盃啊全球第九名\n\n5\n00:01:26,414 --> 00:01:50,897\n全球第九名啊這不簡單啊我們蘇維布萊不光是在媒體開記者會也在內部做公告嘛那我們看看公告主要的一個內容他評比的這個部分對台灣的成績呢第一個台灣得到當時評比的國際全球的第九名不簡單啦不簡單第二個呢在亞洲評比呢我們鄰居嘛因為環境比較類似嘛在亞洲第三名啊\n\n6\n00:01:52,117 --> 00:02:10,164\n那其中十個指標有十項指標他評比的成績有十項指標十項指標我們當時就有五項他一半五項能夠擠進前十但是其實我們聽到這個包括他真的覺得很驚艷但是也很驚嚇的原因就是說\n\n7\n00:02:11,104 --> 00:02:27,832\n哇成立兩個月就能夠做這麼多事嗎那所以我們是你覺得這個當時的成績你還沒來啦那你知道這件事情的話也是一個驕傲吧應該是但是這種評比因為雖然看起來很客觀但是評比的項目這種\n\n8\n00:02:29,353 --> 00:02:53,324\n這種事情其實也是可以說是蠻主觀的因為看他評比的項目是什麼當天的一個結論因為背景就是當年的速發部成立兩個多月但是當天的記者會的一個結論你們自己說自己就是顯見台灣基礎環境設備數位為民服務跟我們數位政府轉型努力有成\n\n9\n00:02:54,404 --> 00:03:21,100\n效果著重這是當天的一個基礎那對我來講OK數位部才剛成立它的元年那我相信在這麼紮實的基礎啊你知道嗎當地基打好那樓層可以蓋得很穩很高那接下來你們元年一年二年大樓慢慢蓋好那現在到底蓋得怎麼樣經歷唐鳳部長一年九個月跟我們黃部長一年四個月\n\n10\n00:03:22,100 --> 00:03:38,098\n你才剛上任我們再談一些不好意思你擔任這個首長過去跟未來你都必須要去做負責兼顧來做說明那在這樣的一個基礎之下到底蓋了幾年的結果如何滿不滿意\n\n11\n00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:59,199\n坦白的跟委員報告其實當初數位發展部成立的時候有三個主要的任務第一個就是數位產業所以我們有數位產業署第二個是資安任性所以我們有資安署跟任性司然後再來是數位政府所以我們有像資料司像數位政府司等等可是我們數位發展部一成立以後\n\n12\n00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:01,261\nOhmygod\n\n13\n00:04:30,262 --> 00:04:50,110\n因為我們這麼多的委員通過你的預算你每年的預算數位政府的照擺每年增加好不好刪掉了也幫你大致上補回去了然後你告訴我抱歉這份有錢但是我們的人力心力沒有放在這上面我希望你這樣的解釋你自己可以理解但是民眾不理解我們覺得2022年的時候跟你無關但我們覺得基礎很踏實\n\n14\n00:04:56,132 --> 00:05:21,081\n在這個基礎之下經過了一年兩年成就如何呢我們覺得應該大樓慢慢穩穩的上上蓋應該業績蒸蒸日上確實我也看到你們做到了從2018年我們有那當時國安法宣布也是第9名到你們2022年宣布第9名就是10米以內你們才公告了第9名之後當年數位部成立\n\n15\n00:05:22,372 --> 00:05:43,637\n成了第一年在良好的基礎之下打拼努力單獨預算幾百億給你們了拼了一年蒸蒸日上數字往上走退了六名再拼第一年還這個人還沒有著急腳步沒站穩到了去年2024年啊第20名\n\n16\n00:05:49,574 --> 00:06:09,811\n你的感覺怎麼樣你說說看因為第20名的部分你有參與部分那是為什麼你5月20號跟黃部長一起來的嘛你是次長我不要講你要負責啦但你應該了解2024年由蒸蒸日上到這麼好的成績從第9名退不到第20名主要原因是什麼\n\n17\n00:06:11,369 --> 00:06:32,596\n如同我剛剛在跟委員說明的這個我本身我也認為說這個地方我們的投入的那個心力不夠所以我剛剛在稍早我在那個業務報告裡面我講說我跟除了延續之前我們黃部長的三大三支箭之外我們今年也會把這個數位政府納入我們的主要施政目標\n\n18\n00:06:33,456 --> 00:06:49,270\n好這個林部長你說得這麼老實就是黃部長跟唐翁部長這方面數位政府做得不夠好大概邏輯就是這樣因為那你希望你能夠做得更好為什麼呢2022年你們講的基礎這麼好\n\n19\n00:06:52,313 --> 00:07:08,043\n第九名大家希望能夠繼續的第八名第七名能夠穩健的成長我們因為站在各部會的這種資安單位數位單位都可以拿下第九名\n\n20\n00:07:10,625 --> 00:07:24,769\n2018年數位部都還沒成立嘛他也拿到第九名大家當然期待你有一個部長這麼多部會這麼多廳在這裡你的成績大家這樣期待是基本的啦你要越來越好結果呢在這麼好的基礎之下你應該可以重重隆隆你知道嗎游刃有餘啊結果你搞了兩年你弄到連滾帶爬\n\n21\n00:07:35,410 --> 00:07:44,663\n我覺得在這樣的下去這個趨勢12月要公布2025的齁我不要說把你們看衰了齁2025你大概預估怎麼樣\n\n22\n00:07:46,634 --> 00:08:11,339\n還蠻想這種預估這是陷阱題吧我講太低也不行啊對不對我們衛生預算在炒這邊炒了半年價我覺得很衰耶也被你搞一個大罷免什麼我現在在問你說錢要怎麼用拿到手上就說抱歉啦以前錢都編了這部分做得不好那今年會不會做得很好不清楚我覺得因為畢竟我們這個質詢大家都在聽啦是\n\n23\n00:08:14,740 --> 00:08:36,262\n那我們再看看國際的亞洲的排序好吧就近的我們鄰居要檢討一下10月10號也不才過幾天嘛我們總統經濟生產率是小龍之冠嘛那種驕傲驕傲真的才大家感覺到驕傲嘛結果我們是IT之國科技之島\n\n24\n00:08:38,177 --> 00:08:59,266\n我們從2020到2024我告訴你我們的鄰居新加坡變第一名第四名變第一名南韓第七名變第五名日本第九名到成長日本第十名成長日本沒有成長那泰國從22名到第18名我跟你講\n\n25\n00:09:01,229 --> 00:09:20,140\n台灣從第九名跌了十一名到第二十名這是我們亞洲的一個類似環境的鄰居我覺得這個部分值得檢討而且很不應該如果再這樣的下去我覺得數位發展部在我的心中變成數位大退部\n\n26\n00:09:21,161 --> 00:09:45,727\n每次看到你這樣一個成績在我們講的時候是整篇什麼都好然後呢到時候這到底是什麼問題再問你數位政府有這麼多類別他評比十大指標你知道是哪十大指標嗎坦白講我也不知道我早上看才知道但是你要參加一個評比如果你都不知道我跟你講應該是我們主動參加是他們把我們抓去參加的吧\n\n27\n00:09:46,267 --> 00:10:05,366\n所以你其實也不願意參加所以你也不參加不知道人家跑的是百米還是馬拉松比賽我們整個部隊我們的員工其實根本沒有準備我的天啊我是覺得這樣的部長因為你才剛接一個多月今天我們談這件事我覺得是期待\n\n28\n00:10:06,167 --> 00:10:24,481\n多於苛責我也覺得你們要針對於評比的部分你說你無所謂但是我們又是地球村你不看其他國家都在看讓台灣在這種亞洲四小龍之冠這種驕傲還沒有來其他人你看天天退步\n\n29\n00:10:26,022 --> 00:10:42,653\n我跟你講2022年當年的交第九名基礎打好了其中有五項指標進入前十名就是前面五項第一個是現象育有與浮沫第二個是基礎建設那我都不要念了到2023年\n\n30\n00:10:45,474 --> 00:10:53,462\n四項不見了當年的優勢四個不見了所謂不見就沒有排到前十名了不知道到哪一名去了請問那個政府資訊長的活躍度跟參加國際會議有關嗎\n\n31\n00:10:59,333 --> 00:11:20,923\n這裡第四項政府資訊長活躍度是指的是什麼事情這個好像很抽象是跟參加國際會議有關還是這個很抽象所以你要問是不是要了解找到田因為我沒有去那邊念過書因為我們現在預算那個出國預算大幅被刪減所以這可能會有一些影響大幅刪減但是有一件小問題2024年預算刪減了嗎\n\n32\n00:11:25,031 --> 00:11:32,874\n我在講你2024年的成績2024年升級了沒有不知道你不要學這壞的啦我們現在評比的成績只到去年2024年今年2025年有三預算的問題你再跟我扯這個這樣就沒有意思了我就覺得有點莫名其妙了我站好沒有三預算之下\n\n33\n00:11:48,479 --> 00:12:04,174\n你看你2024年所有當時兩年的優勢全部跳到10名以外最後我只舉一個例子什麼叫優勢那你說這中間網路硬體網路硬體的一個評比我們本來剛剛講的我們本來是優勢\n\n34\n00:12:06,917 --> 00:12:32,014\n第二項第五名耶國際第五名啊怎麼會不見呢是不是因為4G轉5G這種出了問題我不知道我覺得你們要去找出問題有些搞不好是NCC的有些是行政院的那都不一定最後我要拜託你啦是你今年3月24號才說的是各位所有的國民恭喜大家我們數位部啊我的一政府已經幫大家結合2700項的服務一戰時這記者會來你開的\n\n35\n00:12:37,177 --> 00:13:04,396\n大家都很開心啊終於可以點一下一個窗口一次購主結果呢審計部的今年的一個資料出來了我也請教你到4月23號你這點進去啊根本連接不到連接錯誤或者連接失效的你所謂的變名措施就是剛剛找到點的一個你的名字不見了數位的一個服務不見了你們這個要不要改善啊要不要改善\n\n36\n00:13:05,317 --> 00:13:20,815\n報告委員因為審計部的報告是說我們有一半的這個服務它不是線上的那因為其實我們把線上的跟零貴的都一起放在這個網站讓所有的同仁所有的那個民眾都可以看到線上的跟這個零貴的\n\n37\n00:13:21,235 --> 00:13:49,044\n至於說有一些是那個連結不到的因為省醫部他的那個連結方式你們這個這種科技技術應該每一天可以去檢查嘛哪些都不見了跳出來HDP什麼什麼404還什麼我忘了反正就這樣這個怎麼會發生這樣的一個事情尤其是我們當時的次長接任部長之後他開的記者會民眾只要有一個網站何況如果有很多網站都這樣了什麼現在都改善完畢了嗎\n\n38\n00:13:49,684 --> 00:13:50,285\n好啦我跟你講齁\n\n39\n00:14:12,971 --> 00:14:28,524\n網頁連結錯誤失效從你這邊超連結過去就是你沒有檢查好就不對這趕快去改善如果是書面人家不方便是另外一回事所以我覺得這個部分我們希望能夠積極改善好不好部長好沒問題我們會積極改善好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2233\t8034\t好 謝謝主席有請我們數位部我們林部長 林部長請\n13150\t37516\t國務委員 早安部長好你們現在是要數位部還是書發部 簡稱我們現在叫數位發展部 簡稱書發部因為我們要強調發展就是現在要全稱就對了沒有 我們是書發部 因為數位的話但是其實這都不重要 內容物比較重要首先我們直接看一下這有件事情 我說你好或者你自己說你好都不太客觀\n38436\t62370\t那事實上在大概這過去19年20年來從2005年開始在日本早稻田大學對於國際數位政府的開始有一個評比有個評比特別有注意到數位這個我們事務發布在2002年8月27號成立8月我記得那時候成立的時候我正好在交通委員會\n63351\t85106\t哇 其實我是很驚豔也很驚嚇不到三個月之後就看到我們這個當時的速發部舉行記者會啊真的有慶功宴等級啊所以我們得到了早稻農研大學當年2022年社會政府評比咧全台灣打國際盃啊全球第九名\n86414\t110897\t全球第九名啊 這不簡單啊我們蘇維布萊不光是在媒體開記者會也在內部做公告嘛那我們看看公告主要的一個內容他評比的這個部分對台灣的成績呢第一個 台灣得到當時評比的國際全球的第九名不簡單啦 不簡單第二個呢 在亞洲評比呢我們鄰居嘛 因為環境比較類似嘛在亞洲第三名啊\n112117\t130164\t那其中十個指標有十項指標他評比的成績有十項指標十項指標我們當時就有五項他一半五項能夠擠進前十但是其實我們聽到這個包括他真的覺得很驚艷但是也很驚嚇的原因就是說\n131104\t147832\t哇成立兩個月就能夠做這麼多事嗎那所以我們是你覺得這個當時的成績你還沒來啦那你知道這件事情的話也是一個驕傲吧應該是但是這種評比因為雖然看起來很客觀但是評比的項目這種\n149353\t173324\t這種事情其實也是可以說是蠻主觀的因為看他評比的項目是什麼當天的一個結論因為背景就是當年的速發部成立兩個多月但是當天的記者會的一個結論你們自己說自己就是顯見台灣基礎環境設備數位為民服務跟我們數位政府轉型努力有成\n174404\t201100\t效果著重這是當天的一個基礎那對我來講OK 數位部才剛成立它的元年那我相信在這麼紮實的基礎啊你知道嗎當地基打好那樓層可以蓋得很穩很高那接下來你們元年一年二年大樓慢慢蓋好那現在到底蓋得怎麼樣經歷唐鳳部長一年九個月跟我們黃部長一年四個月\n202100\t218098\t你才剛上任我們再談一些不好意思你擔任這個首長過去跟未來你都必須要去做負責兼顧來做說明那在這樣的一個基礎之下到底蓋了幾年的結果如何滿不滿意\n220319\t239199\t坦白的跟委員報告其實當初數位發展部成立的時候有三個主要的任務第一個就是數位產業所以我們有數位產業署第二個是資安任性所以我們有資安署跟任性司然後再來是數位政府所以我們有像資料司 像數位政府司等等可是我們數位發展部一成立以後\n240600\t241261\tOh my god\n270262\t290110\t因為我們這麼多的委員通過你的預算你每年的預算數位政府的照擺每年增加好不好刪掉了也幫你大致上補回去了然後你告訴我抱歉這份有錢但是我們的人力心力沒有放在這上面我希望你這樣的解釋你自己可以理解但是民眾不理解我們覺得2022年的時候跟你無關但我們覺得基礎很踏實\n296132\t321081\t在這個基礎之下經過了一年兩年成就如何呢我們覺得應該大樓慢慢穩穩的上上蓋應該業績蒸蒸日上確實我也看到你們做到了從2018年我們有那當時國安法宣布也是第9名到你們2022年宣布第9名就是10米以內你們才公告了第9名之後當年數位部成立\n322372\t343637\t成了第一年在良好的基礎之下打拼努力單獨預算幾百億給你們了拼了一年蒸蒸日上數字往上走退了六名再拼第一年還這個人還沒有著急腳步沒站穩到了去年2024年啊第20名\n349574\t369811\t你的感覺怎麼樣 你說說看因為第20名的部分你有參與部分那是為什麼你5月20號跟黃部長一起來的嘛 你是次長我不要講你要負責啦但你應該了解2024年由蒸蒸日上到這麼好的成績從第9名退不到第20名主要原因是什麼\n371369\t392596\t如同我剛剛在跟委員說明的這個我本身我也認為說這個地方我們的投入的那個心力不夠所以我剛剛在稍早我在那個業務報告裡面我講說我跟除了延續之前我們黃部長的三大三支箭之外我們今年也會把這個數位政府納入我們的主要施政目標\n393456\t409270\t好 這個林部長你說得這麼老實就是黃部長跟唐翁部長這方面數位政府做得不夠好大概邏輯就是這樣因為那你希望你能夠做得更好為什麼呢2022年你們講的基礎這麼好\n412313\t428043\t第九名 大家希望能夠繼續的第八名 第七名 能夠穩健的成長我們因為站在各部會的這種資安單位 數位單位都可以拿下第九名\n430625\t444769\t2018年數位部都還沒成立嘛他也拿到第九名大家當然期待你有一個部長這麼多部會這麼多廳在這裡你的成績大家這樣期待是基本的啦你要越來越好結果呢在這麼好的基礎之下你應該可以重重隆隆你知道嗎游刃有餘啊結果你搞了兩年你弄到連滾帶爬\n455410\t464663\t我覺得在這樣的下去 這個趨勢12月要公布2025的齁我不要說把你們看衰了齁2025你大概預估怎麼樣\n466634\t491339\t還蠻想這種預估這是陷阱題吧我講太低也不行啊對不對我們衛生預算在炒這邊炒了半年價我覺得很衰耶也被你搞一個大罷免什麼我現在在問你說錢要怎麼用拿到手上就說抱歉啦以前錢都編了這部分做得不好那今年會不會做得很好不清楚我覺得因為畢竟我們這個質詢大家都在聽啦是\n494740\t516262\t那我們再看看 國際的 亞洲的排序好吧 就近的 我們鄰居要檢討一下10月10號 也不才過幾天嘛我們總統 經濟生產率是小龍之冠嘛 那種驕傲 驕傲真的才 大家感覺到驕傲嘛結果 我們是IT之國 科技之島\n518177\t539266\t我們從2020到2024我告訴你 我們的鄰居 新加坡變第一名 第四名變第一名南韓第七名變第五名日本第九名到成長日本第十名成長日本沒有成長那泰國從22名到第18名我跟你講\n541229\t560140\t台灣從第九名跌了十一名到第二十名這是我們亞洲的一個類似環境的鄰居我覺得這個部分值得檢討而且很不應該如果再這樣的下去我覺得數位發展部在我的心中變成數位大退部\n561161\t585727\t每次看到你這樣一個成績在我們講的時候是整篇什麼都好然後呢到時候這到底是什麼問題再問你數位政府有這麼多類別他評比十大指標你知道是哪十大指標嗎坦白講我也不知道我早上看才知道但是你要參加一個評比如果你都不知道我跟你講應該是我們主動參加是他們把我們抓去參加的吧\n586267\t605366\t所以你其實也不願意參加所以你也不參加不知道人家跑的是百米還是馬拉松比賽我們整個部隊我們的員工其實根本沒有準備我的天啊我是覺得這樣的部長因為你才剛接一個多月今天我們談這件事我覺得是期待\n606167\t624481\t多於苛責我也覺得你們要針對於評比的部分你說你無所謂但是我們又是地球村你不看其他國家都在看讓台灣在這種亞洲四小龍之冠這種驕傲還沒有來其他人你看天天退步\n626022\t642653\t我跟你講2022年當年的交第九名基礎打好了其中有五項指標進入前十名就是前面五項第一個是現象育有與浮沫第二個是基礎建設那我都不要念了到2023年\n645474\t653462\t四項不見了當年的優勢四個不見了所謂不見就沒有排到前十名了不知道到哪一名去了請問那個政府資訊長的活躍度跟參加國際會議有關嗎\n659333\t680923\t這裡第四項政府資訊長活躍度是指的是什麼事情這個好像很抽象是跟參加國際會議有關還是這個很抽象所以你要問是不是要了解找到田因為我沒有去那邊念過書因為我們現在預算那個出國預算大幅被刪減所以這可能會有一些影響大幅刪減但是有一件小問題2024年預算刪減了嗎\n685031\t692874\t我在講你2024年的成績2024年升級了沒有不知道你不要學這壞的啦我們現在評比的成績只到去年2024年今年2025年有三預算的問題你再跟我扯這個這樣就沒有意思了我就覺得有點莫名其妙了我站好沒有三預算之下\n708479\t724174\t你看你2024年所有當時兩年的優勢全部跳到10名以外最後我只舉一個例子什麼叫優勢那你說這中間網路硬體網路硬體的一個評比我們本來剛剛講的我們本來是優勢\n726917\t752014\t第二項第五名耶國際第五名啊怎麼會不見呢是不是因為4G轉5G這種出了問題我不知道我覺得你們要去找出問題有些搞不好是NCC的有些是行政院的那都不一定最後我要拜託你啦是你今年3月24號才說的是各位所有的國民恭喜大家我們數位部啊我的一政府已經幫大家結合2700項的服務一戰時這記者會來你開的\n757177\t784396\t大家都很開心啊 終於可以點一下一個窗口一次購主結果呢 審計部的今年的一個資料出來了 我也請教你到4月23號你這點進去啊 根本連接不到連接錯誤 或者連接失效的你所謂的變名措施就是剛剛找到點的一個你的名字不見了數位的一個服務不見了你們這個要不要改善啊要不要改善\n785317\t800815\t報告委員因為審計部的報告是說我們有一半的這個服務它不是線上的那因為其實我們把線上的跟零貴的都一起放在這個網站讓所有的同仁所有的那個民眾都可以看到線上的跟這個零貴的\n801235\t829044\t至於說有一些是那個連結不到的因為省醫部他的那個連結方式你們這個這種科技技術應該每一天可以去檢查嘛哪些都不見了跳出來HDP什麼什麼404還什麼我忘了反正就這樣這個怎麼會發生這樣的一個事情尤其是我們當時的次長接任部長之後他開的記者會民眾只要有一個網站何況如果有很多網站都這樣了什麼現在都改善完畢了嗎\n829684\t830285\t好啦 我跟你講齁\n852971\t868524\t網頁連結錯誤失效從你這邊超連結過去就是你沒有檢查好就不對這趕快去改善如果是書面人家不方便是另外一回事所以我覺得這個部分我們希望能夠積極改善好不好 部長好沒問題我們會積極改善好謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席有請我們數位部我們林部長 林部長請\n國務委員 早安部長好你們現在是要數位部還是書發部 簡稱我們現在叫數位發展部 簡稱書發部因為我們要強調發展就是現在要全稱就對了沒有 我們是書發部 因為數位的話但是其實這都不重要 內容物比較重要首先我們直接看一下這有件事情 我說你好或者你自己說你好都不太客觀\n那事實上在大概這過去19年20年來從2005年開始在日本早稻田大學對於國際數位政府的開始有一個評比有個評比特別有注意到數位這個我們事務發布在2002年8月27號成立8月我記得那時候成立的時候我正好在交通委員會\n哇 其實我是很驚豔也很驚嚇不到三個月之後就看到我們這個當時的速發部舉行記者會啊真的有慶功宴等級啊所以我們得到了早稻農研大學當年2022年社會政府評比咧全台灣打國際盃啊全球第九名\n全球第九名啊 這不簡單啊我們蘇維布萊不光是在媒體開記者會也在內部做公告嘛那我們看看公告主要的一個內容他評比的這個部分對台灣的成績呢第一個 台灣得到當時評比的國際全球的第九名不簡單啦 不簡單第二個呢 在亞洲評比呢我們鄰居嘛 因為環境比較類似嘛在亞洲第三名啊\n那其中十個指標有十項指標他評比的成績有十項指標十項指標我們當時就有五項他一半五項能夠擠進前十但是其實我們聽到這個包括他真的覺得很驚艷但是也很驚嚇的原因就是說\n哇成立兩個月就能夠做這麼多事嗎那所以我們是你覺得這個當時的成績你還沒來啦那你知道這件事情的話也是一個驕傲吧應該是但是這種評比因為雖然看起來很客觀但是評比的項目這種\n這種事情其實也是可以說是蠻主觀的因為看他評比的項目是什麼當天的一個結論因為背景就是當年的速發部成立兩個多月但是當天的記者會的一個結論你們自己說自己就是顯見台灣基礎環境設備數位為民服務跟我們數位政府轉型努力有成\n效果著重這是當天的一個基礎那對我來講OK 數位部才剛成立它的元年那我相信在這麼紮實的基礎啊你知道嗎當地基打好那樓層可以蓋得很穩很高那接下來你們元年一年二年大樓慢慢蓋好那現在到底蓋得怎麼樣經歷唐鳳部長一年九個月跟我們黃部長一年四個月\n你才剛上任我們再談一些不好意思你擔任這個首長過去跟未來你都必須要去做負責兼顧來做說明那在這樣的一個基礎之下到底蓋了幾年的結果如何滿不滿意\n坦白的跟委員報告其實當初數位發展部成立的時候有三個主要的任務第一個就是數位產業所以我們有數位產業署第二個是資安任性所以我們有資安署跟任性司然後再來是數位政府所以我們有像資料司 像數位政府司等等可是我們數位發展部一成立以後\nOh my god\n因為我們這麼多的委員通過你的預算你每年的預算數位政府的照擺每年增加好不好刪掉了也幫你大致上補回去了然後你告訴我抱歉這份有錢但是我們的人力心力沒有放在這上面我希望你這樣的解釋你自己可以理解但是民眾不理解我們覺得2022年的時候跟你無關但我們覺得基礎很踏實\n在這個基礎之下經過了一年兩年成就如何呢我們覺得應該大樓慢慢穩穩的上上蓋應該業績蒸蒸日上確實我也看到你們做到了從2018年我們有那當時國安法宣布也是第9名到你們2022年宣布第9名就是10米以內你們才公告了第9名之後當年數位部成立\n成了第一年在良好的基礎之下打拼努力單獨預算幾百億給你們了拼了一年蒸蒸日上數字往上走退了六名再拼第一年還這個人還沒有著急腳步沒站穩到了去年2024年啊第20名\n你的感覺怎麼樣 你說說看因為第20名的部分你有參與部分那是為什麼你5月20號跟黃部長一起來的嘛 你是次長我不要講你要負責啦但你應該了解2024年由蒸蒸日上到這麼好的成績從第9名退不到第20名主要原因是什麼\n如同我剛剛在跟委員說明的這個我本身我也認為說這個地方我們的投入的那個心力不夠所以我剛剛在稍早我在那個業務報告裡面我講說我跟除了延續之前我們黃部長的三大三支箭之外我們今年也會把這個數位政府納入我們的主要施政目標\n好 這個林部長你說得這麼老實就是黃部長跟唐翁部長這方面數位政府做得不夠好大概邏輯就是這樣因為那你希望你能夠做得更好為什麼呢2022年你們講的基礎這麼好\n第九名 大家希望能夠繼續的第八名 第七名 能夠穩健的成長我們因為站在各部會的這種資安單位 數位單位都可以拿下第九名\n2018年數位部都還沒成立嘛他也拿到第九名大家當然期待你有一個部長這麼多部會這麼多廳在這裡你的成績大家這樣期待是基本的啦你要越來越好結果呢在這麼好的基礎之下你應該可以重重隆隆你知道嗎游刃有餘啊結果你搞了兩年你弄到連滾帶爬\n我覺得在這樣的下去 這個趨勢12月要公布2025的齁我不要說把你們看衰了齁2025你大概預估怎麼樣\n還蠻想這種預估這是陷阱題吧我講太低也不行啊對不對我們衛生預算在炒這邊炒了半年價我覺得很衰耶也被你搞一個大罷免什麼我現在在問你說錢要怎麼用拿到手上就說抱歉啦以前錢都編了這部分做得不好那今年會不會做得很好不清楚我覺得因為畢竟我們這個質詢大家都在聽啦是\n那我們再看看 國際的 亞洲的排序好吧 就近的 我們鄰居要檢討一下10月10號 也不才過幾天嘛我們總統 經濟生產率是小龍之冠嘛 那種驕傲 驕傲真的才 大家感覺到驕傲嘛結果 我們是IT之國 科技之島\n我們從2020到2024我告訴你 我們的鄰居 新加坡變第一名 第四名變第一名南韓第七名變第五名日本第九名到成長日本第十名成長日本沒有成長那泰國從22名到第18名我跟你講\n台灣從第九名跌了十一名到第二十名這是我們亞洲的一個類似環境的鄰居我覺得這個部分值得檢討而且很不應該如果再這樣的下去我覺得數位發展部在我的心中變成數位大退部\n每次看到你這樣一個成績在我們講的時候是整篇什麼都好然後呢到時候這到底是什麼問題再問你數位政府有這麼多類別他評比十大指標你知道是哪十大指標嗎坦白講我也不知道我早上看才知道但是你要參加一個評比如果你都不知道我跟你講應該是我們主動參加是他們把我們抓去參加的吧\n所以你其實也不願意參加所以你也不參加不知道人家跑的是百米還是馬拉松比賽我們整個部隊我們的員工其實根本沒有準備我的天啊我是覺得這樣的部長因為你才剛接一個多月今天我們談這件事我覺得是期待\n多於苛責我也覺得你們要針對於評比的部分你說你無所謂但是我們又是地球村你不看其他國家都在看讓台灣在這種亞洲四小龍之冠這種驕傲還沒有來其他人你看天天退步\n我跟你講2022年當年的交第九名基礎打好了其中有五項指標進入前十名就是前面五項第一個是現象育有與浮沫第二個是基礎建設那我都不要念了到2023年\n四項不見了當年的優勢四個不見了所謂不見就沒有排到前十名了不知道到哪一名去了請問那個政府資訊長的活躍度跟參加國際會議有關嗎\n這裡第四項政府資訊長活躍度是指的是什麼事情這個好像很抽象是跟參加國際會議有關還是這個很抽象所以你要問是不是要了解找到田因為我沒有去那邊念過書因為我們現在預算那個出國預算大幅被刪減所以這可能會有一些影響大幅刪減但是有一件小問題2024年預算刪減了嗎\n我在講你2024年的成績2024年升級了沒有不知道你不要學這壞的啦我們現在評比的成績只到去年2024年今年2025年有三預算的問題你再跟我扯這個這樣就沒有意思了我就覺得有點莫名其妙了我站好沒有三預算之下\n你看你2024年所有當時兩年的優勢全部跳到10名以外最後我只舉一個例子什麼叫優勢那你說這中間網路硬體網路硬體的一個評比我們本來剛剛講的我們本來是優勢\n第二項第五名耶國際第五名啊怎麼會不見呢是不是因為4G轉5G這種出了問題我不知道我覺得你們要去找出問題有些搞不好是NCC的有些是行政院的那都不一定最後我要拜託你啦是你今年3月24號才說的是各位所有的國民恭喜大家我們數位部啊我的一政府已經幫大家結合2700項的服務一戰時這記者會來你開的\n大家都很開心啊 終於可以點一下一個窗口一次購主結果呢 審計部的今年的一個資料出來了 我也請教你到4月23號你這點進去啊 根本連接不到連接錯誤 或者連接失效的你所謂的變名措施就是剛剛找到點的一個你的名字不見了數位的一個服務不見了你們這個要不要改善啊要不要改善\n報告委員因為審計部的報告是說我們有一半的這個服務它不是線上的那因為其實我們把線上的跟零貴的都一起放在這個網站讓所有的同仁所有的那個民眾都可以看到線上的跟這個零貴的\n至於說有一些是那個連結不到的因為省醫部他的那個連結方式你們這個這種科技技術應該每一天可以去檢查嘛哪些都不見了跳出來HDP什麼什麼404還什麼我忘了反正就這樣這個怎麼會發生這樣的一個事情尤其是我們當時的次長接任部長之後他開的記者會民眾只要有一個網站何況如果有很多網站都這樣了什麼現在都改善完畢了嗎\n好啦 我跟你講齁\n網頁連結錯誤失效從你這邊超連結過去就是你沒有檢查好就不對這趕快去改善如果是書面人家不方便是另外一回事所以我覺得這個部分我們希望能夠積極改善好不好 部長好沒問題我們會積極改善好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.233 --> 00:08.034\n好謝謝主席有請我們數位部我們林部長林部長請\n\n00:13.150 --> 00:37.516\n國務委員早安部長好你們現在是要數位部還是書發部簡稱我們現在叫數位發展部簡稱書發部因為我們要強調發展就是現在要全稱就對了沒有我們是書發部因為數位的話但是其實這都不重要內容物比較重要首先我們直接看一下這有件事情我說你好或者你自己說你好都不太客觀\n\n00:38.436 --> 01:02.370\n那事實上在大概這過去19年20年來從2005年開始在日本早稻田大學對於國際數位政府的開始有一個評比有個評比特別有注意到數位這個我們事務發布在2002年8月27號成立8月我記得那時候成立的時候我正好在交通委員會\n\n01:03.351 --> 01:25.106\n哇其實我是很驚豔也很驚嚇不到三個月之後就看到我們這個當時的速發部舉行記者會啊真的有慶功宴等級啊所以我們得到了早稻農研大學當年2022年社會政府評比咧全台灣打國際盃啊全球第九名\n\n01:26.414 --> 01:50.897\n全球第九名啊這不簡單啊我們蘇維布萊不光是在媒體開記者會也在內部做公告嘛那我們看看公告主要的一個內容他評比的這個部分對台灣的成績呢第一個台灣得到當時評比的國際全球的第九名不簡單啦不簡單第二個呢在亞洲評比呢我們鄰居嘛因為環境比較類似嘛在亞洲第三名啊\n\n01:52.117 --> 02:10.164\n那其中十個指標有十項指標他評比的成績有十項指標十項指標我們當時就有五項他一半五項能夠擠進前十但是其實我們聽到這個包括他真的覺得很驚艷但是也很驚嚇的原因就是說\n\n02:11.104 --> 02:27.832\n哇成立兩個月就能夠做這麼多事嗎那所以我們是你覺得這個當時的成績你還沒來啦那你知道這件事情的話也是一個驕傲吧應該是但是這種評比因為雖然看起來很客觀但是評比的項目這種\n\n02:29.353 --> 02:53.324\n這種事情其實也是可以說是蠻主觀的因為看他評比的項目是什麼當天的一個結論因為背景就是當年的速發部成立兩個多月但是當天的記者會的一個結論你們自己說自己就是顯見台灣基礎環境設備數位為民服務跟我們數位政府轉型努力有成\n\n02:54.404 --> 03:21.100\n效果著重這是當天的一個基礎那對我來講OK數位部才剛成立它的元年那我相信在這麼紮實的基礎啊你知道嗎當地基打好那樓層可以蓋得很穩很高那接下來你們元年一年二年大樓慢慢蓋好那現在到底蓋得怎麼樣經歷唐鳳部長一年九個月跟我們黃部長一年四個月\n\n03:22.100 --> 03:38.098\n你才剛上任我們再談一些不好意思你擔任這個首長過去跟未來你都必須要去做負責兼顧來做說明那在這樣的一個基礎之下到底蓋了幾年的結果如何滿不滿意\n\n03:40.319 --> 03:59.199\n坦白的跟委員報告其實當初數位發展部成立的時候有三個主要的任務第一個就是數位產業所以我們有數位產業署第二個是資安任性所以我們有資安署跟任性司然後再來是數位政府所以我們有像資料司像數位政府司等等可是我們數位發展部一成立以後\n\n04:00.600 --> 04:01.261\nOhmygod\n\n04:30.262 --> 04:50.110\n因為我們這麼多的委員通過你的預算你每年的預算數位政府的照擺每年增加好不好刪掉了也幫你大致上補回去了然後你告訴我抱歉這份有錢但是我們的人力心力沒有放在這上面我希望你這樣的解釋你自己可以理解但是民眾不理解我們覺得2022年的時候跟你無關但我們覺得基礎很踏實\n\n04:56.132 --> 05:21.081\n在這個基礎之下經過了一年兩年成就如何呢我們覺得應該大樓慢慢穩穩的上上蓋應該業績蒸蒸日上確實我也看到你們做到了從2018年我們有那當時國安法宣布也是第9名到你們2022年宣布第9名就是10米以內你們才公告了第9名之後當年數位部成立\n\n05:22.372 --> 05:43.637\n成了第一年在良好的基礎之下打拼努力單獨預算幾百億給你們了拼了一年蒸蒸日上數字往上走退了六名再拼第一年還這個人還沒有著急腳步沒站穩到了去年2024年啊第20名\n\n05:49.574 --> 06:09.811\n你的感覺怎麼樣你說說看因為第20名的部分你有參與部分那是為什麼你5月20號跟黃部長一起來的嘛你是次長我不要講你要負責啦但你應該了解2024年由蒸蒸日上到這麼好的成績從第9名退不到第20名主要原因是什麼\n\n06:11.369 --> 06:32.596\n如同我剛剛在跟委員說明的這個我本身我也認為說這個地方我們的投入的那個心力不夠所以我剛剛在稍早我在那個業務報告裡面我講說我跟除了延續之前我們黃部長的三大三支箭之外我們今年也會把這個數位政府納入我們的主要施政目標\n\n06:33.456 --> 06:49.270\n好這個林部長你說得這麼老實就是黃部長跟唐翁部長這方面數位政府做得不夠好大概邏輯就是這樣因為那你希望你能夠做得更好為什麼呢2022年你們講的基礎這麼好\n\n06:52.313 --> 07:08.043\n第九名大家希望能夠繼續的第八名第七名能夠穩健的成長我們因為站在各部會的這種資安單位數位單位都可以拿下第九名\n\n07:10.625 --> 07:24.769\n2018年數位部都還沒成立嘛他也拿到第九名大家當然期待你有一個部長這麼多部會這麼多廳在這裡你的成績大家這樣期待是基本的啦你要越來越好結果呢在這麼好的基礎之下你應該可以重重隆隆你知道嗎游刃有餘啊結果你搞了兩年你弄到連滾帶爬\n\n07:35.410 --> 07:44.663\n我覺得在這樣的下去這個趨勢12月要公布2025的齁我不要說把你們看衰了齁2025你大概預估怎麼樣\n\n07:46.634 --> 08:11.339\n還蠻想這種預估這是陷阱題吧我講太低也不行啊對不對我們衛生預算在炒這邊炒了半年價我覺得很衰耶也被你搞一個大罷免什麼我現在在問你說錢要怎麼用拿到手上就說抱歉啦以前錢都編了這部分做得不好那今年會不會做得很好不清楚我覺得因為畢竟我們這個質詢大家都在聽啦是\n\n08:14.740 --> 08:36.262\n那我們再看看國際的亞洲的排序好吧就近的我們鄰居要檢討一下10月10號也不才過幾天嘛我們總統經濟生產率是小龍之冠嘛那種驕傲驕傲真的才大家感覺到驕傲嘛結果我們是IT之國科技之島\n\n08:38.177 --> 08:59.266\n我們從2020到2024我告訴你我們的鄰居新加坡變第一名第四名變第一名南韓第七名變第五名日本第九名到成長日本第十名成長日本沒有成長那泰國從22名到第18名我跟你講\n\n09:01.229 --> 09:20.140\n台灣從第九名跌了十一名到第二十名這是我們亞洲的一個類似環境的鄰居我覺得這個部分值得檢討而且很不應該如果再這樣的下去我覺得數位發展部在我的心中變成數位大退部\n\n09:21.161 --> 09:45.727\n每次看到你這樣一個成績在我們講的時候是整篇什麼都好然後呢到時候這到底是什麼問題再問你數位政府有這麼多類別他評比十大指標你知道是哪十大指標嗎坦白講我也不知道我早上看才知道但是你要參加一個評比如果你都不知道我跟你講應該是我們主動參加是他們把我們抓去參加的吧\n\n09:46.267 --> 10:05.366\n所以你其實也不願意參加所以你也不參加不知道人家跑的是百米還是馬拉松比賽我們整個部隊我們的員工其實根本沒有準備我的天啊我是覺得這樣的部長因為你才剛接一個多月今天我們談這件事我覺得是期待\n\n10:06.167 --> 10:24.481\n多於苛責我也覺得你們要針對於評比的部分你說你無所謂但是我們又是地球村你不看其他國家都在看讓台灣在這種亞洲四小龍之冠這種驕傲還沒有來其他人你看天天退步\n\n10:26.022 --> 10:42.653\n我跟你講2022年當年的交第九名基礎打好了其中有五項指標進入前十名就是前面五項第一個是現象育有與浮沫第二個是基礎建設那我都不要念了到2023年\n\n10:45.474 --> 10:53.462\n四項不見了當年的優勢四個不見了所謂不見就沒有排到前十名了不知道到哪一名去了請問那個政府資訊長的活躍度跟參加國際會議有關嗎\n\n10:59.333 --> 11:20.923\n這裡第四項政府資訊長活躍度是指的是什麼事情這個好像很抽象是跟參加國際會議有關還是這個很抽象所以你要問是不是要了解找到田因為我沒有去那邊念過書因為我們現在預算那個出國預算大幅被刪減所以這可能會有一些影響大幅刪減但是有一件小問題2024年預算刪減了嗎\n\n11:25.031 --> 11:32.874\n我在講你2024年的成績2024年升級了沒有不知道你不要學這壞的啦我們現在評比的成績只到去年2024年今年2025年有三預算的問題你再跟我扯這個這樣就沒有意思了我就覺得有點莫名其妙了我站好沒有三預算之下\n\n11:48.479 --> 12:04.174\n你看你2024年所有當時兩年的優勢全部跳到10名以外最後我只舉一個例子什麼叫優勢那你說這中間網路硬體網路硬體的一個評比我們本來剛剛講的我們本來是優勢\n\n12:06.917 --> 12:32.014\n第二項第五名耶國際第五名啊怎麼會不見呢是不是因為4G轉5G這種出了問題我不知道我覺得你們要去找出問題有些搞不好是NCC的有些是行政院的那都不一定最後我要拜託你啦是你今年3月24號才說的是各位所有的國民恭喜大家我們數位部啊我的一政府已經幫大家結合2700項的服務一戰時這記者會來你開的\n\n12:37.177 --> 13:04.396\n大家都很開心啊終於可以點一下一個窗口一次購主結果呢審計部的今年的一個資料出來了我也請教你到4月23號你這點進去啊根本連接不到連接錯誤或者連接失效的你所謂的變名措施就是剛剛找到點的一個你的名字不見了數位的一個服務不見了你們這個要不要改善啊要不要改善\n\n13:05.317 --> 13:20.815\n報告委員因為審計部的報告是說我們有一半的這個服務它不是線上的那因為其實我們把線上的跟零貴的都一起放在這個網站讓所有的同仁所有的那個民眾都可以看到線上的跟這個零貴的\n\n13:21.235 --> 13:49.044\n至於說有一些是那個連結不到的因為省醫部他的那個連結方式你們這個這種科技技術應該每一天可以去檢查嘛哪些都不見了跳出來HDP什麼什麼404還什麼我忘了反正就這樣這個怎麼會發生這樣的一個事情尤其是我們當時的次長接任部長之後他開的記者會民眾只要有一個網站何況如果有很多網站都這樣了什麼現在都改善完畢了嗎\n\n13:49.684 --> 13:50.285\n好啦我跟你講齁\n\n14:12.971 --> 14:28.524\n網頁連結錯誤失效從你這邊超連結過去就是你沒有檢查好就不對這趕快去改善如果是書面人家不方便是另外一回事所以我覺得這個部分我們希望能夠積極改善好不好部長好沒問題我們會積極改善好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.233,"end":8.034,"text":"好 謝謝主席有請我們數位部我們林部長 林部長請"},{"start":13.15,"end":37.516,"text":"國務委員 早安部長好你們現在是要數位部還是書發部 簡稱我們現在叫數位發展部 簡稱書發部因為我們要強調發展就是現在要全稱就對了沒有 我們是書發部 因為數位的話但是其實這都不重要 內容物比較重要首先我們直接看一下這有件事情 我說你好或者你自己說你好都不太客觀"},{"start":38.436,"end":62.37,"text":"那事實上在大概這過去19年20年來從2005年開始在日本早稻田大學對於國際數位政府的開始有一個評比有個評比特別有注意到數位這個我們事務發布在2002年8月27號成立8月我記得那時候成立的時候我正好在交通委員會"},{"start":63.351,"end":85.106,"text":"哇 其實我是很驚豔也很驚嚇不到三個月之後就看到我們這個當時的速發部舉行記者會啊真的有慶功宴等級啊所以我們得到了早稻農研大學當年2022年社會政府評比咧全台灣打國際盃啊全球第九名"},{"start":86.414,"end":110.897,"text":"全球第九名啊 這不簡單啊我們蘇維布萊不光是在媒體開記者會也在內部做公告嘛那我們看看公告主要的一個內容他評比的這個部分對台灣的成績呢第一個 台灣得到當時評比的國際全球的第九名不簡單啦 不簡單第二個呢 在亞洲評比呢我們鄰居嘛 因為環境比較類似嘛在亞洲第三名啊"},{"start":112.117,"end":130.164,"text":"那其中十個指標有十項指標他評比的成績有十項指標十項指標我們當時就有五項他一半五項能夠擠進前十但是其實我們聽到這個包括他真的覺得很驚艷但是也很驚嚇的原因就是說"},{"start":131.104,"end":147.832,"text":"哇成立兩個月就能夠做這麼多事嗎那所以我們是你覺得這個當時的成績你還沒來啦那你知道這件事情的話也是一個驕傲吧應該是但是這種評比因為雖然看起來很客觀但是評比的項目這種"},{"start":149.353,"end":173.324,"text":"這種事情其實也是可以說是蠻主觀的因為看他評比的項目是什麼當天的一個結論因為背景就是當年的速發部成立兩個多月但是當天的記者會的一個結論你們自己說自己就是顯見台灣基礎環境設備數位為民服務跟我們數位政府轉型努力有成"},{"start":174.404,"end":201.1,"text":"效果著重這是當天的一個基礎那對我來講OK 數位部才剛成立它的元年那我相信在這麼紮實的基礎啊你知道嗎當地基打好那樓層可以蓋得很穩很高那接下來你們元年一年二年大樓慢慢蓋好那現在到底蓋得怎麼樣經歷唐鳳部長一年九個月跟我們黃部長一年四個月"},{"start":202.1,"end":218.098,"text":"你才剛上任我們再談一些不好意思你擔任這個首長過去跟未來你都必須要去做負責兼顧來做說明那在這樣的一個基礎之下到底蓋了幾年的結果如何滿不滿意"},{"start":220.319,"end":239.199,"text":"坦白的跟委員報告其實當初數位發展部成立的時候有三個主要的任務第一個就是數位產業所以我們有數位產業署第二個是資安任性所以我們有資安署跟任性司然後再來是數位政府所以我們有像資料司 像數位政府司等等可是我們數位發展部一成立以後"},{"start":240.6,"end":241.261,"text":"Oh my god"},{"start":270.262,"end":290.11,"text":"因為我們這麼多的委員通過你的預算你每年的預算數位政府的照擺每年增加好不好刪掉了也幫你大致上補回去了然後你告訴我抱歉這份有錢但是我們的人力心力沒有放在這上面我希望你這樣的解釋你自己可以理解但是民眾不理解我們覺得2022年的時候跟你無關但我們覺得基礎很踏實"},{"start":296.132,"end":321.081,"text":"在這個基礎之下經過了一年兩年成就如何呢我們覺得應該大樓慢慢穩穩的上上蓋應該業績蒸蒸日上確實我也看到你們做到了從2018年我們有那當時國安法宣布也是第9名到你們2022年宣布第9名就是10米以內你們才公告了第9名之後當年數位部成立"},{"start":322.372,"end":343.637,"text":"成了第一年在良好的基礎之下打拼努力單獨預算幾百億給你們了拼了一年蒸蒸日上數字往上走退了六名再拼第一年還這個人還沒有著急腳步沒站穩到了去年2024年啊第20名"},{"start":349.574,"end":369.811,"text":"你的感覺怎麼樣 你說說看因為第20名的部分你有參與部分那是為什麼你5月20號跟黃部長一起來的嘛 你是次長我不要講你要負責啦但你應該了解2024年由蒸蒸日上到這麼好的成績從第9名退不到第20名主要原因是什麼"},{"start":371.369,"end":392.596,"text":"如同我剛剛在跟委員說明的這個我本身我也認為說這個地方我們的投入的那個心力不夠所以我剛剛在稍早我在那個業務報告裡面我講說我跟除了延續之前我們黃部長的三大三支箭之外我們今年也會把這個數位政府納入我們的主要施政目標"},{"start":393.456,"end":409.27,"text":"好 這個林部長你說得這麼老實就是黃部長跟唐翁部長這方面數位政府做得不夠好大概邏輯就是這樣因為那你希望你能夠做得更好為什麼呢2022年你們講的基礎這麼好"},{"start":412.313,"end":428.043,"text":"第九名 大家希望能夠繼續的第八名 第七名 能夠穩健的成長我們因為站在各部會的這種資安單位 數位單位都可以拿下第九名"},{"start":430.625,"end":444.769,"text":"2018年數位部都還沒成立嘛他也拿到第九名大家當然期待你有一個部長這麼多部會這麼多廳在這裡你的成績大家這樣期待是基本的啦你要越來越好結果呢在這麼好的基礎之下你應該可以重重隆隆你知道嗎游刃有餘啊結果你搞了兩年你弄到連滾帶爬"},{"start":455.41,"end":464.663,"text":"我覺得在這樣的下去 這個趨勢12月要公布2025的齁我不要說把你們看衰了齁2025你大概預估怎麼樣"},{"start":466.634,"end":491.339,"text":"還蠻想這種預估這是陷阱題吧我講太低也不行啊對不對我們衛生預算在炒這邊炒了半年價我覺得很衰耶也被你搞一個大罷免什麼我現在在問你說錢要怎麼用拿到手上就說抱歉啦以前錢都編了這部分做得不好那今年會不會做得很好不清楚我覺得因為畢竟我們這個質詢大家都在聽啦是"},{"start":494.74,"end":516.262,"text":"那我們再看看 國際的 亞洲的排序好吧 就近的 我們鄰居要檢討一下10月10號 也不才過幾天嘛我們總統 經濟生產率是小龍之冠嘛 那種驕傲 驕傲真的才 大家感覺到驕傲嘛結果 我們是IT之國 科技之島"},{"start":518.177,"end":539.266,"text":"我們從2020到2024我告訴你 我們的鄰居 新加坡變第一名 第四名變第一名南韓第七名變第五名日本第九名到成長日本第十名成長日本沒有成長那泰國從22名到第18名我跟你講"},{"start":541.229,"end":560.14,"text":"台灣從第九名跌了十一名到第二十名這是我們亞洲的一個類似環境的鄰居我覺得這個部分值得檢討而且很不應該如果再這樣的下去我覺得數位發展部在我的心中變成數位大退部"},{"start":561.161,"end":585.727,"text":"每次看到你這樣一個成績在我們講的時候是整篇什麼都好然後呢到時候這到底是什麼問題再問你數位政府有這麼多類別他評比十大指標你知道是哪十大指標嗎坦白講我也不知道我早上看才知道但是你要參加一個評比如果你都不知道我跟你講應該是我們主動參加是他們把我們抓去參加的吧"},{"start":586.267,"end":605.366,"text":"所以你其實也不願意參加所以你也不參加不知道人家跑的是百米還是馬拉松比賽我們整個部隊我們的員工其實根本沒有準備我的天啊我是覺得這樣的部長因為你才剛接一個多月今天我們談這件事我覺得是期待"},{"start":606.167,"end":624.481,"text":"多於苛責我也覺得你們要針對於評比的部分你說你無所謂但是我們又是地球村你不看其他國家都在看讓台灣在這種亞洲四小龍之冠這種驕傲還沒有來其他人你看天天退步"},{"start":626.022,"end":642.653,"text":"我跟你講2022年當年的交第九名基礎打好了其中有五項指標進入前十名就是前面五項第一個是現象育有與浮沫第二個是基礎建設那我都不要念了到2023年"},{"start":645.474,"end":653.462,"text":"四項不見了當年的優勢四個不見了所謂不見就沒有排到前十名了不知道到哪一名去了請問那個政府資訊長的活躍度跟參加國際會議有關嗎"},{"start":659.333,"end":680.923,"text":"這裡第四項政府資訊長活躍度是指的是什麼事情這個好像很抽象是跟參加國際會議有關還是這個很抽象所以你要問是不是要了解找到田因為我沒有去那邊念過書因為我們現在預算那個出國預算大幅被刪減所以這可能會有一些影響大幅刪減但是有一件小問題2024年預算刪減了嗎"},{"start":685.031,"end":692.874,"text":"我在講你2024年的成績2024年升級了沒有不知道你不要學這壞的啦我們現在評比的成績只到去年2024年今年2025年有三預算的問題你再跟我扯這個這樣就沒有意思了我就覺得有點莫名其妙了我站好沒有三預算之下"},{"start":708.479,"end":724.174,"text":"你看你2024年所有當時兩年的優勢全部跳到10名以外最後我只舉一個例子什麼叫優勢那你說這中間網路硬體網路硬體的一個評比我們本來剛剛講的我們本來是優勢"},{"start":726.917,"end":752.014,"text":"第二項第五名耶國際第五名啊怎麼會不見呢是不是因為4G轉5G這種出了問題我不知道我覺得你們要去找出問題有些搞不好是NCC的有些是行政院的那都不一定最後我要拜託你啦是你今年3月24號才說的是各位所有的國民恭喜大家我們數位部啊我的一政府已經幫大家結合2700項的服務一戰時這記者會來你開的"},{"start":757.177,"end":784.396,"text":"大家都很開心啊 終於可以點一下一個窗口一次購主結果呢 審計部的今年的一個資料出來了 我也請教你到4月23號你這點進去啊 根本連接不到連接錯誤 或者連接失效的你所謂的變名措施就是剛剛找到點的一個你的名字不見了數位的一個服務不見了你們這個要不要改善啊要不要改善"},{"start":785.317,"end":800.815,"text":"報告委員因為審計部的報告是說我們有一半的這個服務它不是線上的那因為其實我們把線上的跟零貴的都一起放在這個網站讓所有的同仁所有的那個民眾都可以看到線上的跟這個零貴的"},{"start":801.235,"end":829.044,"text":"至於說有一些是那個連結不到的因為省醫部他的那個連結方式你們這個這種科技技術應該每一天可以去檢查嘛哪些都不見了跳出來HDP什麼什麼404還什麼我忘了反正就這樣這個怎麼會發生這樣的一個事情尤其是我們當時的次長接任部長之後他開的記者會民眾只要有一個網站何況如果有很多網站都這樣了什麼現在都改善完畢了嗎"},{"start":829.684,"end":830.285,"text":"好啦 我跟你講齁"},{"start":852.971,"end":868.524,"text":"網頁連結錯誤失效從你這邊超連結過去就是你沒有檢查好就不對這趕快去改善如果是書面人家不方便是另外一回事所以我覺得這個部分我們希望能夠積極改善好不好 部長好沒問題我們會積極改善好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":438,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時28分）謝謝主席，請數位部林部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["林部長宜敬：委員早安。"],["魯委員明哲：部長好。你們現在的簡稱是數位部還是數發部？"],["林部長宜敬：我們現在叫數位發展部，簡稱數發部，因為我們要強調發展。"],["魯委員明哲：現在要全稱就對了？"],["林部長宜敬：沒有，我們是數發部。因為數位……"],["魯委員明哲：其實這些都不重要，內容物比較重要。首先我們看一下，有些事情本席說你們好，或者你們自己說自己好，其實都不太客觀。過去這19年、20年來，也就是從2005年開始，日本早稻田大學對於國際數位政府開始做評比，數發部在2022年8月27日成立，記得成立的時候，本席正好在交通委員會。","哇！其實本席是很驚豔，也很驚嚇，成立不到三個月，就看到當時的數發部舉行記者會，而且還是慶功宴等級的，說我們得到早稻田大學2022年數位政府評比全球第9名，這是臺灣打國際盃的評比，不簡單啊！數位部不光是在媒體開記者會，也在內部公告。","我們看一下公告的主要內容，就是這個評比的臺灣成績，第一個，臺灣得到當時評比的全球第9名，不簡單啦！第二個，在亞洲的評比，因為我們是鄰居，環境比較類似，在亞洲是第3名。評比有十項指標，我們有五項擠進前10名。當時我們聽到這個消息真的覺得很驚豔，但是也很驚嚇，因為才成立兩個月就能夠做這麼多事嗎？你覺得當時這個成績如何？那時你還沒上任啦！你知道這件事情之後，也覺得這是一個驕傲吧？"],["林部長宜敬：應該是啦！這種評比雖然看起來很客觀，但是評比的項目其實也可以說滿主觀的，因為要看評比的項目是什麼。"],["魯委員明哲：因為當時的背景是數發部才成立兩個多月，但是當天記者會的結論，這是你們自己說的，顯見臺灣基礎環境設備、數位為民服務和數位政府轉型有成，效果卓著，這是當天的結論。對本席來說，數位部才剛成立，當年是成立元年，本席相信在這麼扎實的基礎之下，只要地基打得好，樓層就可以蓋得很穩、很高，接下來你們經過元年、一年、二年的努力，這個大樓會慢慢蓋好，現在到底蓋得怎麼樣？","經歷唐鳳部長的一年九個月、黃部長的一年四個月，雖然你才剛上任，但是不好意思，因為你現在擔任首長，所以過去和未來你都必須負責兼顧、說明，在這樣的基礎之下，這棟大樓已經蓋了幾年，結果如何？滿不滿意？"],["林部長宜敬：坦白向委員報告，其實當初數位發展部成立的時候有三個主要任務，第一個就是數位產業，所以我們有數位產業署。第二是資安韌性，所以我們有資安署和韌性司，再來是數位政府，所以我們有資料司、數位政府司等等。可是數位發展部一成立以後就發生一件事情，是什麼？詐騙橫行，所以數發部把第三個任務，就是本來應該放在數位政府方面的很多能量和資源都拿去打詐了。現在我們在打詐方面算是有初步成果，不敢吹牛說已經都禁絕，但是有一些成果以後，接下來我們希望把一些資源和能量移回去做數位政府的部分。"],["魯委員明哲：天啊！這麼多委員通過你們的預算，而且你們在數位政府這部分的預算是每一年增加，刪掉的部分也大致幫你們補回去了，但是你告訴本席，抱歉，雖然這部分有錢，但是我們的人力、心力沒有放在這上面，對於你的解釋，你們自己能夠理解，但是民眾不理解。2022年的事雖然和你無關，但我們覺得當時的基礎很扎實，在這個基礎之下，在經過一年、兩年之後，成就如何呢？","我們覺得這棟大樓應該是慢慢的、穩穩的向上蓋，業績應該蒸蒸日上，這點也確實有看到，你們做到了。2018年，當時國發會有宣布，是第9名，2022年也是第9名，因為十名內你們才會公告。達到第9名的評比成績之後，當年數位部成立，在良好的基礎之下繼續打拼努力，還單獨給你們幾百億元預算，你們也拼了一年，本該業績蒸蒸日上，排名數字應該也要往上走，但是卻退了六名。","第一年可以說人還沒有招齊，腳步還沒站穩，但是到了去年（2024年）卻退到第20名，你覺得怎麼樣？因為第20名這個成績，你有參與部分，為什麼？因為你是5月20日和黃部長一起上任的嘛！當時你是次長。本席不是要你負責，但你應該了解，為什麼原本應該是蒸蒸日上，也擁有這麼好的成績，2024年卻從第9名退步到第20名，主要原因是什麼？"],["林部長宜敬：如同我剛剛向委員說明的，我本身也認為這個部分投入的心力不夠，所以稍早我做業務報告時也說了，除了延續之前黃部長的三支箭之外，我們今年也會把數位政府納入主要施政目標。"],["魯委員明哲：林部長很老實，就是黃部長和唐鳳部長在數位政府這方面做得不夠好，邏輯大概就是這樣，希望你能夠做得更好。為什麼呢？2022年的基礎這麼好，評比是第9名，大家希望能夠繼續往第8名、第7名穩健成長，因為散在各部會的資安單位、數位單位都可以拿下第9名，2018年的情況就是這樣嘛！","因為2018年數位部還沒成立，當時就拿到第9名啊！所以大家當然會期待部長和在場這麼多同仁也能有這樣的成績，因為這是基本的啦！你們應該要越來越好。結果呢？在這麼好的基礎之下，你們本應該從從容容、游刃有餘的，你知道嗎？"],["林部長宜敬：謝謝委員。"],["魯委員明哲：結果你們搞了兩年，卻弄到連滾帶爬。本席覺得再這樣下去，以這個趨勢來看，12月就要公布2025年的評比成績了，不要說我看衰你們，2025年的評比，你們預估會怎麼樣？"],["林部長宜敬：坦白說這種預估是陷阱題吧！我說得太低也不行啊！對不對？"],["魯委員明哲：哇塞！我們因為預算吵了半天架，本席覺得很倒楣，因為還被提出大罷免。現在本席問你錢要怎麼用？結果卻是錢拿到手之後就說抱歉，以前錢都編了，但是這部分做得不好，至於今年會不會做好？不清楚！部長，畢竟大家都在聽我們的答詢啦！"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["魯委員明哲：我們再看看亞洲的排序，好不好？看看我們鄰居的成績，我們也檢討一下。10月10日才過去幾天，總統說我們的經濟成長率是四小龍之冠，大家也感到驕傲。我們是IT之國、科技之島，從2020年到2024年，我們的鄰居新加坡從第4名變第1名，南韓從第7名變第5名，日本沒有成長，泰國從第22名到第18名，但是臺灣從第9名跌到第20名，退步11名。","這些國家都是我們在亞洲這個類似環境的鄰居，本席覺得這個部分值得檢討，而且很不應該，如果再這樣下去，數位發展部在本席的心中會變成數位大退步。每次看到你們這樣的成績，一開始什麼都說得很好，最後卻不是這樣，到底是什麼問題？再問你，數位政府有這麼多類別，他們評比有十大指標，你知道是哪十大指標嗎？"],["林部長宜敬：報告委員……"],["魯委員明哲：坦白說本席也不知道，是早上看到資料才知道。但是你們要參加一個評比，如果連你們都不知道的話，本席告訴你……"],["林部長宜敬：應該不是我們主動參加，是他們把我們抓去參加的吧！"],["魯委員明哲：所以其實你們也不願意參加？"],["林部長宜敬：我沒有說不願意參加。"],["魯委員明哲：所以你也不知道人家跑的是百米還是馬拉松比賽，我們整個部隊、我們的員工其實根本就沒有準備。天啊！部長，因為你才剛接任一個多月，今天本席談這件事是期待多於苛責。"],["林部長宜敬：是，謝謝。"],["魯委員明哲：但我覺得你們要針對評比的部分努力。你說你們無所謂，但是我們處於地球村，即便你們不看這個評比，但是其他國家都在看。臺灣原本是亞洲四小龍之冠，我們還沒有充分體會到這種驕傲，結果其他人看到的是天天退步。本席告訴你，2022年我們是驕傲的，是第9名，基礎也打好了，其中有五項指標進入前10名，就是前面五項，第一個是線上應用與服務，第二個是基礎建設，其他的本席就不唸了。到2023年，當年的四項優勢不見了，所謂的不見就是沒有排到前10名，不知道排到哪一名去了。"],["林部長宜敬：請問那個「政府資訊長活躍度」跟參加國際會議有關嗎？"],["魯委員明哲：你說什麼？"],["林部長宜敬：就是第4項「政府資訊長活躍度」指的是什麼事情？這個好像很抽象，是跟參加國際會議有關，還是……"],["魯委員明哲：這個很抽象啊？所以你要問，是不是要了解早稻田？因為我沒有去那邊念過書喔！"],["林部長宜敬：對，因為我們現在出國預算被大幅刪減，所以就……"],["魯委員明哲：好。"],["林部長宜敬：這個可能會有一些影響吧！"],["魯委員明哲：大幅刪減喔，但是有一個小問題，2024年預算刪減了嗎？我在講你2024年的成績。"],["林部長宜敬：對，沒有錯。"],["魯委員明哲：2024年刪減了沒有？"],["林部長宜敬：沒有啊，這個……"],["魯委員明哲：部長，你不要學壞的啦！"],["林部長宜敬：對啊！但是接下來……"],["魯委員明哲：我們現在評比的成績只到去（2024）年。"],["林部長宜敬：是啊，沒錯啊！"],["魯委員明哲：今（2025）年有刪預算的問題，你在跟我扯這個？這樣就沒有意思。"],["林部長宜敬：是啊！但接下來不是又會有一個新的評比嗎？"],["魯委員明哲：我會覺得有點莫名其妙啦！"],["林部長宜敬：沒有、沒有，我在講接下來……"],["魯委員明哲：在沒有刪預算之下，你看2024年，所有當時兩年的優勢全部跳到十名以外。最後我只舉一個例子，什麼叫優勢？你說這中間網路硬體的一個評比，剛剛講的我們本來是優勢耶！第2項是第五名，在國際是第五名啊！怎麼會不見呢？是不是因為4G轉5G這種出了問題？我不知道！但我覺得你們要去找出問題，有一些搞不好是NCC的、有些是行政院的，那都不一定！","最後我要拜託你，你在今年3月24號才說的，各位所有的國民，恭喜大家，數位部「我的E政府」已經幫大家結合2,700項服務，一站式的。這個記者會還是你開的，大家都很開心，終於可以點一下，一個窗口一次購足，結果呢？審計部今年的一個資料出來了，我也請教你，到4月23號點進去根本連結不到、連結錯誤，或者連結失效，你所謂的便民措施，就是剛剛找到，點了一個，你的名次不見了，數位服務不見了，你們這個要不要改善啊？要不要改善？"],["王司長誠明：報告委員，審計部的報告是說我們有一半的服務不是線上的，其實我們把線上的跟臨櫃的都一起放在這個網站，讓所有民眾都可以看到線上的跟臨櫃的。至於有一些連結不到的，因為審計部的連結方式……"],["魯委員明哲：這種科技技術應該可以每一天去檢查嘛！"],["王司長誠明：是、是、是，我們會檢查。"],["魯委員明哲：哪些都不見了？跳出來HTTP 404，還是什麼的，我忘了！反正就這樣，怎麼會發生這樣一個事情？尤其是當時的次長接任部長之後，他開了記者會，民眾只要有一個網站，何況如果有很多網站都這樣了，現在都改善完畢了嗎？"],["王司長誠明：跟委員報告，因為審計部去連結的方式會被機關認為它是駭客在攻擊，因為它一次大量連結一些機關。"],["魯委員明哲：所以你覺得是審計部有問題嘛！"],["王司長誠明：這個部分我們會去跟審計部討論，我們會去跟審計部討論這件事情。"],["魯委員明哲：你要跟審計部研究，是不是？"],["王司長誠明：至於網站連結的部分，我們自己還是會有一些精進的技術去……"],["魯委員明哲：好啦，我跟你講，網頁連結錯誤失效，從你這邊超連結過去，就是你沒有檢查好就不對，趕快去改善，如果是書面，人家不方便是另外一回事，所以這個部分我希望能夠積極改善，好不好？部長。"],["林部長宜敬：好，沒問題，我們會積極改善。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲委員。","我想官員可能回答的時候還要更精準，因為剛剛官員居然回答審計部在查詢的時候被認定為駭客，那是在質疑審計部嗎？還是有什麼樣的狀況？我想政府是一體的。另外就剛剛魯明哲委員這邊的一個質詢，在2022年數發部的新聞稿還說臺灣數位政府推動成效獲得國際肯定，那時候是第九名，獲得國際肯定！不要只講好的，如果評比客觀，有20名，我們該檢討要檢討。2022年、2023年、2024年都是全面執政的政府，我想預算都沒有被刪減，但是有預算，排名卻一直往後倒退，我想這也是客觀的事實，我們也期待數發部真的是痛定思痛、好好檢討，而不是在這邊答詢的時候逞一時口舌之快，好不好？","我們休息10分鐘，10分鐘之後繼續開會，謝謝。","休息（10時44分）","繼續開會（10時54分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","接下來請昨天已經獲得總統認定要提名的何欣純委員，請發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-3","speakers":["洪孟楷","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳素月","徐富癸","魯明哲","何欣純","林俊憲","葛如鈞","李昆澤","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","賴士葆","郭國文","羅美玲","黃健豪","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","游顥","賴惠員","陳冠廷","林國成"],"page_start":239,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長林宜敬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00005"}}}