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756.764, \"end\": 756.784, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,918 --> 00:00:05,024\n那我們是不是請部長來部長請\n\n2\n00:00:11,621 --> 00:00:39,562\n謝謝首先要恭喜部長你是從次長升任為部長我要這樣子講要恭喜謝謝但是我想最重要的是國人最關心的詐騙的問題剛剛在你的業務報告裡面也有提到這個也是我們的業務重點是當然我們也投入了編列了很多的預算資源\n\n3\n00:00:40,322 --> 00:00:49,915\n那我在疫情之後就是數位化的年代裡面詐騙開始盛行的時候我就開始從20235月20243月20246月202410月202411月20254月20256月\n\n4\n00:00:58,086 --> 00:01:08,150\n每一個會期一定都緊追著我們不管是修法或提案跟質詢我們的打炸的成效如何所以2023年5月\n\n5\n00:01:11,345 --> 00:01:34,400\n部長也知道那時候我們有提案修正打炸的三法不管是各自法刑法等等都有提高罰則那20243月我們那時候有一個電子簽章的修法所以我記得在那個修法除了我們有共同的來交換意見之外那電子簽章法也確實修正了\n\n6\n00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:48,983\n還有呢我們當時大力宣傳的那個簡訊那個所謂的專屬的簡訊那現在我看看中央跟地方很多的單位也都在用我們政府專屬的一個簡訊那2024的這個6月\n\n7\n00:01:55,066 --> 00:02:11,805\n當時候我們要求要納管所謂的第三方支付因為那時候太多的詐騙集團運用的第三方支付作為洗錢也好或者是支付也好等等等詐騙的工具所以那時候我們有要求要落實源頭管理\n\n8\n00:02:12,145 --> 00:02:25,114\n那第三方支付現在也正式的有管理了那我們希望接著要問的是管理的成效等一下再給我回答2024年10月當時發現台中的詐騙數全國最高我也要求要跨部會正式那速發部要嚴防那時候要開學了已經開學了每次的開學都有學生還有各式各樣新型的詐騙的手法2024年11月我們要求全面落實廣告實名制\n\n9\n00:02:42,785 --> 00:03:04,980\n那這個部分我們雖然開始了那我當時認為應該要全面上路所有的平台2025年4月LINE的帳號開始應該是說國人被盜用非常的猖狂很多的名人也被盜用那甚至被詐騙所以我們也希望速發部可以協助及時停號這件事情\n\n10\n00:03:06,321 --> 00:03:29,954\n2025年6月又來了我們除了MetaFBIG還有其他的平台之外翠在那時候開始成立一個新興的平台這個平台我們也發現它又變成詐騙的溫床所以我們要求納管實名制開始要從源頭來阻絕詐騙的粉專\n\n11\n00:03:34,116 --> 00:03:50,267\n其實我念了這麼多最重要是剛開始的一句話最關心國人最關心的是有沒有成效啊有沒有成效啊所以我看了一下這個數據是從你們數位發展部的這個通報系統找到的\n\n12\n00:03:51,536 --> 00:04:06,195\n不管是8月31號到9月6號到現在9月28號到10月4號這兩個比較其實都是數字遊戲啦部長我不知道你看得懂不懂啊因為就我的解讀啊這個\n\n13\n00:04:08,226 --> 00:04:29,492\n诈骗广告的数量其实没有减少可是在你们的写法里面这两边比较起来8月31号到9月6号的你们告诉我因为诈骗数有上升所以可是到了9月28号的10月4号的这一周的报告里面\n\n14\n00:04:30,785 --> 00:04:52,036\n我看的數字是差不多啦但是呢在你們下面的說明說有下降有下降有下降所以國人的感受深不深以我走訪基層大家對於這些數字沒有感受啊感受不深啊就是說到底政府打詐的成效有好過沒好過部長你自己說咧\n\n15\n00:04:55,295 --> 00:05:08,988\n謝謝首先要感謝委員過去這一年多以來的督促與支持事實上剛剛委員講的那些各方面的事情我們其實在我們一起的努力之下應該都有做到大部分都已經做到了\n\n16\n00:05:09,648 --> 00:05:30,194\n那我想一定會有一些成效那關於這個報告的確這個我們這樣子顯示因為都是跟上一週比較週跟週比較這個比較不清楚那我們之前之所以沒辦法跟去年我們通常是說那個跟去年同一時期比較那一個原因就是因為網站通報查詢網上線剛好到今年的9月30號剛好滿一週年\n\n17\n00:05:31,374 --> 00:05:55,901\n所以接下來我們其實應該是可以改變我們的報告方式就是我們跟去年同一個時期這樣比這樣比較長時間的去比可能對國人的感覺會比較明顯那依照我們這邊的統計數字來講的話我們現在跟一年前來比的話應該已經是大幅下降了是所以這個地方我們在報告的形式上我們會在改善當然我們實際上的作為也要改善\n\n18\n00:05:56,501 --> 00:06:22,508\n第一個就數字上來看讓人家無感那我們怎麼改進我們怎麼跟國人報告讓國人有感說政府的打詐是有成效的這第一個我覺得表述的方式要讓人有感第二個這個數字的解讀我覺得很重要因為我們不管是跟一年前比較或者是跟上個月比較或者是跟上個禮拜比較我覺得\n\n19\n00:06:23,309 --> 00:06:27,064\n比较是一种手法但是更重要的是要让\n\n20\n00:06:28,055 --> 00:06:54,011\n人民有感覺說這個打炸是有成效的不然我們在坊間現在我看每個委員關心的也是速發部隊打炸的成效到底有沒有大家都還是一個問號有啦那個委員我們現在在那個網路上在Facebook上很少在看到有仿冒黃仁勳那個張忠謀還有那個謝金河這個應該都已經很少見了嘛手法改變啦是啊沒錯\n\n21\n00:06:55,293 --> 00:07:02,930\n只是手法改變我們也要跟著與時俱進來打詐嘛對不對如果你認為有的話那我就在接下來下一頁\n\n22\n00:07:04,746 --> 00:07:27,040\n行政院政府的公共政策網路參與平台現在就有一個提案制定數位打造法一起打造更安全的網路環境然後到目前為止已經超過8000個公民連署我跟你講這個之所以重要是在於他8月28號檢核這個提案是可以的到8月29號就\n\n23\n00:07:29,281 --> 00:07:44,361\n通过达到门槛那这个联署门槛是多少五千所以他一天之内就五千人以上五千个公民联署通过门槛到现在已经超过八千个公民复役\n\n24\n00:07:46,567 --> 00:08:02,330\n部長你說我們有成效那我們要讓人民有感你也認為國人應該有感可是我們看到在這樣子的一個政府的公共政策的網路參與平台裡面大家還是認為應該再制定一個數位打炸法\n\n25\n00:08:04,810 --> 00:08:24,420\n而且連署的速度這麼快那你的立場呢速發部的立場呢其實我想委員也非常清楚這個基本上數位打詐法這個概念是非常好的但是基本上我們之前的那個打詐專法裡面都已經包含了各種那個關於數位打詐的各種法條\n\n26\n00:08:25,100 --> 00:08:47,981\n我們都已經做了譬如說我們裡面有那個廣告實名制這個我們不但已經通過這個法條而且我們確實實施了現在在Facebook在Line在Google上面的所有廣告都已經實施這個實名制而且這個實名制不但要揭露那個出資人也要揭露這個廣告的受益人然後再來我們在打造專法裡面我們規定說當政府通知這些平台要把這個詐騙\n\n27\n00:08:49,162 --> 00:09:04,849\n的訊息或廣告下架的時候他們必須在24小時之內執行完成這個也是一樣就是不但法律已經通過而且我們都已經執行都已經做到了部長法律的通過是一件事很好那有執行是一件事很好\n\n28\n00:09:05,529 --> 00:09:30,255\n但是最重要的是防不勝防為什麼國人對於政府的打炸的成效還有疑慮或是有問號那感受的問題我們又如何的去讓國人知道說我們是真的盡心盡力用力在防止在打炸我覺得這個部分是你要去思考因為下一頁不是只有這個網路平台而已\n\n29\n00:09:31,215 --> 00:09:48,000\n你看到TRADE我在要求很多委員跟我的要求之下你9月15號納管上路那我就開始按照時間序來講你從7月3號公告納管9月15號開始正式實施到現在你自己看這是你們的數字\n\n30\n00:09:49,708 --> 00:10:06,721\n9月到10月通報並確認為詐騙廣告跟訊息數多查18000多件變成第三大被通報的平台我們當然也知道說你們有做你們有資安院有AI系統在掃描\n\n31\n00:10:08,325 --> 00:10:22,494\n那我就請教一下那催你們有沒有在做有沒有在做防堵有沒有在做掃描尋找那些可能是詐騙的廣告有沒有去做攔截\n\n32\n00:10:23,516 --> 00:10:53,119\n是這我們一直都有做事實上Thread雖然之前我們沒有正式納管但是其實我們一直有在做那個Thread上面的詐騙訊息的巡檢那我們發現詐騙訊息的話我們也通知ThreadThread當然它背後就是Meta這個事實上我們都一直有在做那我們現在所以正式納管是因為我們打詐專法是規定的是廣告那Thread在之前在我們打詐專法剛通過的時候它並沒有提供廣告的功能那它在今年的\n\n33\n00:10:54,060 --> 00:11:21,360\n我上次有提醒你啊當然當然當然這個我們也注意到了他開始提供廣告的這個功能以後那我們就依照這個打詐專法必須把它正式納管那我們現在也正式納管那事實上也必須跟委員報告就是說在正式納管之前我們就已經開始做這個在Thread上面的這個那個掃描還有偵測還有通報那Thread那邊事實上也都有配合在把一些詐騙的訊息把它下架下來\n\n34\n00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:36,973\n那這個關於感覺的方面現在實際上我們大家也注意到最近我們一些詐騙很多都已經從線上轉為線下或者是線上線下的虛實整合這個我們很不願意這樣講但是事實上就是也是\n\n35\n00:11:37,734 --> 00:12:01,444\n那個因為我們打詐在線上我們速發不發那個負責的線上打詐有一定的成效所以這個詐騙集團他不斷的流竄他發現說線上純線上的詐騙不行的時候他就轉為線上線下的結合那這個方面我們會再跟那個內政部的警政署我們密切合作我們要一定要一起合作防守不管他是線上線下或者線上線下聯合我們一定要把這個詐騙堵住\n\n36\n00:12:02,244 --> 00:12:26,793\n那是不是請你會後給我一個現在各網路平台你們納管之後的一個防止詐騙跟打詐的一個成效不僅僅是數字我也希望能夠有更進一步的一個報告可以讓國人知道好不好給我書面報告我覺得成效是最重要的讓人民有感是最重要的讓人民不要被詐騙更是重中之重\n\n37\n00:12:27,421 --> 00:12:36,784\n非常謝謝委員的督促跟鼓勵謝謝好請在速發部請再提供給何委員以及我們本委會的委員辦公室這個打炸的一個成效好不好\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3918\t5024\t那我們是不是請部長來 部長請\n11621\t39562\t謝謝 首先要恭喜部長你是從次長升任為部長我要這樣子講 要恭喜謝謝但是我想最重要的是國人最關心的詐騙的問題剛剛在你的業務報告裡面也有提到這個也是我們的業務重點是 當然我們也投入了編列了很多的預算資源\n40322\t49915\t那我在疫情之後就是數位化的年代裡面詐騙開始盛行的時候我就開始從20235月20243月20246月202410月202411月20254月20256月\n58086\t68150\t每一個會期一定都緊追著我們不管是修法或提案跟質詢我們的打炸的成效如何所以2023年5月\n71345\t94400\t部長也知道那時候我們有提案修正打炸的三法不管是各自法刑法等等 都有提高罰則那20243月我們那時候有一個電子簽章的修法所以我記得在那個修法除了我們有共同的來交換意見之外那電子簽章法也確實修正了\n96600\t108983\t還有呢我們當時大力宣傳的那個簡訊那個所謂的專屬的簡訊那現在我看看中央跟地方很多的單位也都在用我們政府專屬的一個簡訊那2024的這個6月\n115066\t131805\t當時候我們要求要納管所謂的第三方支付因為那時候太多的詐騙集團運用的第三方支付作為洗錢也好 或者是支付也好等等等詐騙的工具所以那時候我們有要求要落實源頭管理\n132145\t145114\t那第三方支付現在也正式的有管理了那我們希望接著要問的是管理的成效等一下再給我回答2024年10月當時發現台中的詐騙數全國最高我也要求要跨部會正式那速發部要嚴防那時候要開學了已經開學了每次的開學都有學生還有各式各樣新型的詐騙的手法2024年11月我們要求全面落實廣告實名制\n162785\t184980\t那這個部分我們雖然開始了那我當時認為應該要全面上路所有的平台2025年4月LINE的帳號開始應該是說國人被盜用非常的猖狂很多的名人也被盜用那甚至被詐騙所以我們也希望速發部可以協助及時停號這件事情\n186321\t209954\t2025年6月又來了我們除了MetaFB IG還有其他的平台之外翠在那時候開始成立一個新興的平台這個平台我們也發現它又變成詐騙的溫床所以我們要求納管實名制開始要從源頭來阻絕詐騙的粉專\n214116\t230267\t其實我念了這麼多最重要是剛開始的一句話最關心國人最關心的是有沒有成效啊有沒有成效啊所以我看了一下這個數據是從你們數位發展部的這個通報系統找到的\n231536\t246195\t不管是8月31號到9月6號到現在9月28號到10月4號這兩個比較其實都是數字遊戲啦部長我不知道你看得懂不懂啊因為就我的解讀啊這個\n248226\t269492\t诈骗广告的数量其实没有减少可是在你们的写法里面这两边比较起来8月31号到9月6号的你们告诉我因为诈骗数有上升所以可是到了9月28号的10月4号的这一周的报告里面\n270785\t292036\t我看的數字是差不多啦但是呢在你們下面的說明說有下降有下降有下降所以國人的感受深不深以我走訪基層大家對於這些數字沒有感受啊感受不深啊就是說到底政府打詐的成效有好過沒好過部長你自己說咧\n295295\t308988\t謝謝首先要感謝委員過去這一年多以來的督促與支持事實上剛剛委員講的那些各方面的事情我們其實在我們一起的努力之下應該都有做到大部分都已經做到了\n309648\t330194\t那我想一定會有一些成效那關於這個報告的確這個我們這樣子顯示因為都是跟上一週比較週跟週比較這個比較不清楚那我們之前之所以沒辦法跟去年我們通常是說那個跟去年同一時期比較那一個原因就是因為網站通報查詢網上線剛好到今年的9月30號剛好滿一週年\n331374\t355901\t所以接下來我們其實應該是可以改變我們的報告方式就是我們跟去年同一個時期這樣比這樣比較長時間的去比可能對國人的感覺會比較明顯那依照我們這邊的統計數字來講的話我們現在跟一年前來比的話應該已經是大幅下降了是 所以這個地方我們在報告的形式上我們會在改善當然我們實際上的作為也要改善\n356501\t382508\t第一個就數字上來看讓人家無感那我們怎麼改進我們怎麼跟國人報告讓國人有感說政府的打詐是有成效的這第一個我覺得表述的方式要讓人有感第二個這個數字的解讀我覺得很重要因為我們不管是跟一年前比較或者是跟上個月比較或者是跟上個禮拜比較我覺得\n383309\t387064\t比较是一种手法但是更重要的是要让\n388055\t414011\t人民有感覺說這個打炸是有成效的不然我們在坊間現在我看每個委員關心的也是速發部隊打炸的成效到底有沒有大家都還是一個問號有啦 那個委員我們現在在那個網路上在Facebook上很少在看到有仿冒黃仁勳那個張忠謀還有那個謝金河這個應該都已經很少見了嘛手法改變啦是啊 沒錯\n415293\t422930\t只是手法改變我們也要跟著與時俱進來打詐嘛對不對如果你認為有的話那我就在接下來下一頁\n424746\t447040\t行政院政府的公共政策網路參與平台現在就有一個提案制定數位打造法一起打造更安全的網路環境然後到目前為止已經超過8000個公民連署我跟你講這個之所以重要是在於他8月28號檢核這個提案是可以的到8月29號就\n449281\t464361\t通过达到门槛那这个联署门槛是多少五千所以他一天之内就五千人以上五千个公民联署通过门槛到现在已经超过八千个公民复役\n466567\t482330\t部長你說我們有成效那我們要讓人民有感你也認為國人應該有感可是我們看到在這樣子的一個政府的公共政策的網路參與平台裡面大家還是認為應該再制定一個數位打炸法\n484810\t504420\t而且連署的速度這麼快那你的立場呢 速發部的立場呢其實我想委員也非常清楚這個基本上數位打詐法這個概念是非常好的但是基本上我們之前的那個打詐專法裡面都已經包含了各種那個關於數位打詐的各種法條\n505100\t527981\t我們都已經做了譬如說我們裡面有那個廣告實名制這個我們不但已經通過這個法條而且我們確實實施了現在在Facebook在Line在Google上面的所有廣告都已經實施這個實名制而且這個實名制不但要揭露那個出資人也要揭露這個廣告的受益人然後再來我們在打造專法裡面我們規定說當政府通知這些平台要把這個詐騙\n529162\t544849\t的訊息或廣告下架的時候他們必須在24小時之內執行完成這個也是一樣就是不但法律已經通過而且我們都已經執行都已經做到了部長法律的通過是一件事很好那有執行是一件事很好\n545529\t570255\t但是最重要的是防不勝防為什麼國人對於政府的打炸的成效還有疑慮或是有問號那感受的問題我們又如何的去讓國人知道說我們是真的盡心盡力用力在防止在打炸我覺得這個部分是你要去思考因為下一頁不是只有這個網路平台而已\n571215\t588000\t你看到TRADE我在要求很多委員跟我的要求之下你9月15號納管上路那我就開始按照時間序來講你從7月3號公告納管9月15號開始正式實施到現在你自己看這是你們的數字\n589708\t606721\t9月到10月通報並確認為詐騙廣告跟訊息數多查18000多件變成第三大被通報的平台我們當然也知道說你們有做你們有資安院有AI系統在掃描\n608325\t622494\t那我就請教一下那催你們有沒有在做有沒有在做防堵有沒有在做掃描尋找那些可能是詐騙的廣告有沒有去做攔截\n623516\t653119\t是 這我們一直都有做事實上Thread雖然之前我們沒有正式納管但是其實我們一直有在做那個Thread上面的詐騙訊息的巡檢那我們發現詐騙訊息的話我們也通知ThreadThread當然它背後就是Meta這個事實上我們都一直有在做那我們現在所以正式納管是因為我們打詐專法是規定的是廣告那Thread在之前在我們打詐專法剛通過的時候它並沒有提供廣告的功能那它在今年的\n654060\t681360\t我上次有提醒你啊當然當然當然這個我們也注意到了他開始提供廣告的這個功能以後那我們就依照這個打詐專法必須把它正式納管那我們現在也正式納管那事實上也必須跟委員報告就是說在正式納管之前我們就已經開始做這個在Thread上面的這個那個掃描還有偵測還有通報那Thread那邊事實上也都有配合在把一些詐騙的訊息把它下架下來\n682470\t696973\t那這個關於感覺的方面現在實際上我們大家也注意到最近我們一些詐騙很多都已經從線上轉為線下或者是線上線下的虛實整合這個我們很不願意這樣講但是事實上就是也是\n697734\t721444\t那個因為我們打詐在線上我們速發不發那個負責的線上打詐有一定的成效所以這個詐騙集團他不斷的流竄他發現說線上純線上的詐騙不行的時候他就轉為線上線下的結合那這個方面我們會再跟那個內政部的警政署我們密切合作我們要一定要一起合作防守不管他是線上線下或者線上線下聯合我們一定要把這個詐騙堵住\n722244\t746793\t那是不是請你會後給我一個現在各網路平台你們納管之後的一個防止詐騙跟打詐的一個成效不僅僅是數字我也希望能夠有更進一步的一個報告可以讓國人知道好不好給我書面報告我覺得成效是最重要的讓人民有感是最重要的讓人民不要被詐騙更是重中之重\n747421\t756784\t非常謝謝委員的督促跟鼓勵 謝謝好 請在速發部請再提供給何委員以及我們本委會的委員辦公室這個打炸的一個成效 好不好\n","txt":"那我們是不是請部長來 部長請\n謝謝 首先要恭喜部長你是從次長升任為部長我要這樣子講 要恭喜謝謝但是我想最重要的是國人最關心的詐騙的問題剛剛在你的業務報告裡面也有提到這個也是我們的業務重點是 當然我們也投入了編列了很多的預算資源\n那我在疫情之後就是數位化的年代裡面詐騙開始盛行的時候我就開始從20235月20243月20246月202410月202411月20254月20256月\n每一個會期一定都緊追著我們不管是修法或提案跟質詢我們的打炸的成效如何所以2023年5月\n部長也知道那時候我們有提案修正打炸的三法不管是各自法刑法等等 都有提高罰則那20243月我們那時候有一個電子簽章的修法所以我記得在那個修法除了我們有共同的來交換意見之外那電子簽章法也確實修正了\n還有呢我們當時大力宣傳的那個簡訊那個所謂的專屬的簡訊那現在我看看中央跟地方很多的單位也都在用我們政府專屬的一個簡訊那2024的這個6月\n當時候我們要求要納管所謂的第三方支付因為那時候太多的詐騙集團運用的第三方支付作為洗錢也好 或者是支付也好等等等詐騙的工具所以那時候我們有要求要落實源頭管理\n那第三方支付現在也正式的有管理了那我們希望接著要問的是管理的成效等一下再給我回答2024年10月當時發現台中的詐騙數全國最高我也要求要跨部會正式那速發部要嚴防那時候要開學了已經開學了每次的開學都有學生還有各式各樣新型的詐騙的手法2024年11月我們要求全面落實廣告實名制\n那這個部分我們雖然開始了那我當時認為應該要全面上路所有的平台2025年4月LINE的帳號開始應該是說國人被盜用非常的猖狂很多的名人也被盜用那甚至被詐騙所以我們也希望速發部可以協助及時停號這件事情\n2025年6月又來了我們除了MetaFB IG還有其他的平台之外翠在那時候開始成立一個新興的平台這個平台我們也發現它又變成詐騙的溫床所以我們要求納管實名制開始要從源頭來阻絕詐騙的粉專\n其實我念了這麼多最重要是剛開始的一句話最關心國人最關心的是有沒有成效啊有沒有成效啊所以我看了一下這個數據是從你們數位發展部的這個通報系統找到的\n不管是8月31號到9月6號到現在9月28號到10月4號這兩個比較其實都是數字遊戲啦部長我不知道你看得懂不懂啊因為就我的解讀啊這個\n诈骗广告的数量其实没有减少可是在你们的写法里面这两边比较起来8月31号到9月6号的你们告诉我因为诈骗数有上升所以可是到了9月28号的10月4号的这一周的报告里面\n我看的數字是差不多啦但是呢在你們下面的說明說有下降有下降有下降所以國人的感受深不深以我走訪基層大家對於這些數字沒有感受啊感受不深啊就是說到底政府打詐的成效有好過沒好過部長你自己說咧\n謝謝首先要感謝委員過去這一年多以來的督促與支持事實上剛剛委員講的那些各方面的事情我們其實在我們一起的努力之下應該都有做到大部分都已經做到了\n那我想一定會有一些成效那關於這個報告的確這個我們這樣子顯示因為都是跟上一週比較週跟週比較這個比較不清楚那我們之前之所以沒辦法跟去年我們通常是說那個跟去年同一時期比較那一個原因就是因為網站通報查詢網上線剛好到今年的9月30號剛好滿一週年\n所以接下來我們其實應該是可以改變我們的報告方式就是我們跟去年同一個時期這樣比這樣比較長時間的去比可能對國人的感覺會比較明顯那依照我們這邊的統計數字來講的話我們現在跟一年前來比的話應該已經是大幅下降了是 所以這個地方我們在報告的形式上我們會在改善當然我們實際上的作為也要改善\n第一個就數字上來看讓人家無感那我們怎麼改進我們怎麼跟國人報告讓國人有感說政府的打詐是有成效的這第一個我覺得表述的方式要讓人有感第二個這個數字的解讀我覺得很重要因為我們不管是跟一年前比較或者是跟上個月比較或者是跟上個禮拜比較我覺得\n比较是一种手法但是更重要的是要让\n人民有感覺說這個打炸是有成效的不然我們在坊間現在我看每個委員關心的也是速發部隊打炸的成效到底有沒有大家都還是一個問號有啦 那個委員我們現在在那個網路上在Facebook上很少在看到有仿冒黃仁勳那個張忠謀還有那個謝金河這個應該都已經很少見了嘛手法改變啦是啊 沒錯\n只是手法改變我們也要跟著與時俱進來打詐嘛對不對如果你認為有的話那我就在接下來下一頁\n行政院政府的公共政策網路參與平台現在就有一個提案制定數位打造法一起打造更安全的網路環境然後到目前為止已經超過8000個公民連署我跟你講這個之所以重要是在於他8月28號檢核這個提案是可以的到8月29號就\n通过达到门槛那这个联署门槛是多少五千所以他一天之内就五千人以上五千个公民联署通过门槛到现在已经超过八千个公民复役\n部長你說我們有成效那我們要讓人民有感你也認為國人應該有感可是我們看到在這樣子的一個政府的公共政策的網路參與平台裡面大家還是認為應該再制定一個數位打炸法\n而且連署的速度這麼快那你的立場呢 速發部的立場呢其實我想委員也非常清楚這個基本上數位打詐法這個概念是非常好的但是基本上我們之前的那個打詐專法裡面都已經包含了各種那個關於數位打詐的各種法條\n我們都已經做了譬如說我們裡面有那個廣告實名制這個我們不但已經通過這個法條而且我們確實實施了現在在Facebook在Line在Google上面的所有廣告都已經實施這個實名制而且這個實名制不但要揭露那個出資人也要揭露這個廣告的受益人然後再來我們在打造專法裡面我們規定說當政府通知這些平台要把這個詐騙\n的訊息或廣告下架的時候他們必須在24小時之內執行完成這個也是一樣就是不但法律已經通過而且我們都已經執行都已經做到了部長法律的通過是一件事很好那有執行是一件事很好\n但是最重要的是防不勝防為什麼國人對於政府的打炸的成效還有疑慮或是有問號那感受的問題我們又如何的去讓國人知道說我們是真的盡心盡力用力在防止在打炸我覺得這個部分是你要去思考因為下一頁不是只有這個網路平台而已\n你看到TRADE我在要求很多委員跟我的要求之下你9月15號納管上路那我就開始按照時間序來講你從7月3號公告納管9月15號開始正式實施到現在你自己看這是你們的數字\n9月到10月通報並確認為詐騙廣告跟訊息數多查18000多件變成第三大被通報的平台我們當然也知道說你們有做你們有資安院有AI系統在掃描\n那我就請教一下那催你們有沒有在做有沒有在做防堵有沒有在做掃描尋找那些可能是詐騙的廣告有沒有去做攔截\n是 這我們一直都有做事實上Thread雖然之前我們沒有正式納管但是其實我們一直有在做那個Thread上面的詐騙訊息的巡檢那我們發現詐騙訊息的話我們也通知ThreadThread當然它背後就是Meta這個事實上我們都一直有在做那我們現在所以正式納管是因為我們打詐專法是規定的是廣告那Thread在之前在我們打詐專法剛通過的時候它並沒有提供廣告的功能那它在今年的\n我上次有提醒你啊當然當然當然這個我們也注意到了他開始提供廣告的這個功能以後那我們就依照這個打詐專法必須把它正式納管那我們現在也正式納管那事實上也必須跟委員報告就是說在正式納管之前我們就已經開始做這個在Thread上面的這個那個掃描還有偵測還有通報那Thread那邊事實上也都有配合在把一些詐騙的訊息把它下架下來\n那這個關於感覺的方面現在實際上我們大家也注意到最近我們一些詐騙很多都已經從線上轉為線下或者是線上線下的虛實整合這個我們很不願意這樣講但是事實上就是也是\n那個因為我們打詐在線上我們速發不發那個負責的線上打詐有一定的成效所以這個詐騙集團他不斷的流竄他發現說線上純線上的詐騙不行的時候他就轉為線上線下的結合那這個方面我們會再跟那個內政部的警政署我們密切合作我們要一定要一起合作防守不管他是線上線下或者線上線下聯合我們一定要把這個詐騙堵住\n那是不是請你會後給我一個現在各網路平台你們納管之後的一個防止詐騙跟打詐的一個成效不僅僅是數字我也希望能夠有更進一步的一個報告可以讓國人知道好不好給我書面報告我覺得成效是最重要的讓人民有感是最重要的讓人民不要被詐騙更是重中之重\n非常謝謝委員的督促跟鼓勵 謝謝好 請在速發部請再提供給何委員以及我們本委會的委員辦公室這個打炸的一個成效 好不好\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.918 --> 00:05.024\n那我們是不是請部長來部長請\n\n00:11.621 --> 00:39.562\n謝謝首先要恭喜部長你是從次長升任為部長我要這樣子講要恭喜謝謝但是我想最重要的是國人最關心的詐騙的問題剛剛在你的業務報告裡面也有提到這個也是我們的業務重點是當然我們也投入了編列了很多的預算資源\n\n00:40.322 --> 00:49.915\n那我在疫情之後就是數位化的年代裡面詐騙開始盛行的時候我就開始從20235月20243月20246月202410月202411月20254月20256月\n\n00:58.086 --> 01:08.150\n每一個會期一定都緊追著我們不管是修法或提案跟質詢我們的打炸的成效如何所以2023年5月\n\n01:11.345 --> 01:34.400\n部長也知道那時候我們有提案修正打炸的三法不管是各自法刑法等等都有提高罰則那20243月我們那時候有一個電子簽章的修法所以我記得在那個修法除了我們有共同的來交換意見之外那電子簽章法也確實修正了\n\n01:36.600 --> 01:48.983\n還有呢我們當時大力宣傳的那個簡訊那個所謂的專屬的簡訊那現在我看看中央跟地方很多的單位也都在用我們政府專屬的一個簡訊那2024的這個6月\n\n01:55.066 --> 02:11.805\n當時候我們要求要納管所謂的第三方支付因為那時候太多的詐騙集團運用的第三方支付作為洗錢也好或者是支付也好等等等詐騙的工具所以那時候我們有要求要落實源頭管理\n\n02:12.145 --> 02:25.114\n那第三方支付現在也正式的有管理了那我們希望接著要問的是管理的成效等一下再給我回答2024年10月當時發現台中的詐騙數全國最高我也要求要跨部會正式那速發部要嚴防那時候要開學了已經開學了每次的開學都有學生還有各式各樣新型的詐騙的手法2024年11月我們要求全面落實廣告實名制\n\n02:42.785 --> 03:04.980\n那這個部分我們雖然開始了那我當時認為應該要全面上路所有的平台2025年4月LINE的帳號開始應該是說國人被盜用非常的猖狂很多的名人也被盜用那甚至被詐騙所以我們也希望速發部可以協助及時停號這件事情\n\n03:06.321 --> 03:29.954\n2025年6月又來了我們除了MetaFBIG還有其他的平台之外翠在那時候開始成立一個新興的平台這個平台我們也發現它又變成詐騙的溫床所以我們要求納管實名制開始要從源頭來阻絕詐騙的粉專\n\n03:34.116 --> 03:50.267\n其實我念了這麼多最重要是剛開始的一句話最關心國人最關心的是有沒有成效啊有沒有成效啊所以我看了一下這個數據是從你們數位發展部的這個通報系統找到的\n\n03:51.536 --> 04:06.195\n不管是8月31號到9月6號到現在9月28號到10月4號這兩個比較其實都是數字遊戲啦部長我不知道你看得懂不懂啊因為就我的解讀啊這個\n\n04:08.226 --> 04:29.492\n诈骗广告的数量其实没有减少可是在你们的写法里面这两边比较起来8月31号到9月6号的你们告诉我因为诈骗数有上升所以可是到了9月28号的10月4号的这一周的报告里面\n\n04:30.785 --> 04:52.036\n我看的數字是差不多啦但是呢在你們下面的說明說有下降有下降有下降所以國人的感受深不深以我走訪基層大家對於這些數字沒有感受啊感受不深啊就是說到底政府打詐的成效有好過沒好過部長你自己說咧\n\n04:55.295 --> 05:08.988\n謝謝首先要感謝委員過去這一年多以來的督促與支持事實上剛剛委員講的那些各方面的事情我們其實在我們一起的努力之下應該都有做到大部分都已經做到了\n\n05:09.648 --> 05:30.194\n那我想一定會有一些成效那關於這個報告的確這個我們這樣子顯示因為都是跟上一週比較週跟週比較這個比較不清楚那我們之前之所以沒辦法跟去年我們通常是說那個跟去年同一時期比較那一個原因就是因為網站通報查詢網上線剛好到今年的9月30號剛好滿一週年\n\n05:31.374 --> 05:55.901\n所以接下來我們其實應該是可以改變我們的報告方式就是我們跟去年同一個時期這樣比這樣比較長時間的去比可能對國人的感覺會比較明顯那依照我們這邊的統計數字來講的話我們現在跟一年前來比的話應該已經是大幅下降了是所以這個地方我們在報告的形式上我們會在改善當然我們實際上的作為也要改善\n\n05:56.501 --> 06:22.508\n第一個就數字上來看讓人家無感那我們怎麼改進我們怎麼跟國人報告讓國人有感說政府的打詐是有成效的這第一個我覺得表述的方式要讓人有感第二個這個數字的解讀我覺得很重要因為我們不管是跟一年前比較或者是跟上個月比較或者是跟上個禮拜比較我覺得\n\n06:23.309 --> 06:27.064\n比较是一种手法但是更重要的是要让\n\n06:28.055 --> 06:54.011\n人民有感覺說這個打炸是有成效的不然我們在坊間現在我看每個委員關心的也是速發部隊打炸的成效到底有沒有大家都還是一個問號有啦那個委員我們現在在那個網路上在Facebook上很少在看到有仿冒黃仁勳那個張忠謀還有那個謝金河這個應該都已經很少見了嘛手法改變啦是啊沒錯\n\n06:55.293 --> 07:02.930\n只是手法改變我們也要跟著與時俱進來打詐嘛對不對如果你認為有的話那我就在接下來下一頁\n\n07:04.746 --> 07:27.040\n行政院政府的公共政策網路參與平台現在就有一個提案制定數位打造法一起打造更安全的網路環境然後到目前為止已經超過8000個公民連署我跟你講這個之所以重要是在於他8月28號檢核這個提案是可以的到8月29號就\n\n07:29.281 --> 07:44.361\n通过达到门槛那这个联署门槛是多少五千所以他一天之内就五千人以上五千个公民联署通过门槛到现在已经超过八千个公民复役\n\n07:46.567 --> 08:02.330\n部長你說我們有成效那我們要讓人民有感你也認為國人應該有感可是我們看到在這樣子的一個政府的公共政策的網路參與平台裡面大家還是認為應該再制定一個數位打炸法\n\n08:04.810 --> 08:24.420\n而且連署的速度這麼快那你的立場呢速發部的立場呢其實我想委員也非常清楚這個基本上數位打詐法這個概念是非常好的但是基本上我們之前的那個打詐專法裡面都已經包含了各種那個關於數位打詐的各種法條\n\n08:25.100 --> 08:47.981\n我們都已經做了譬如說我們裡面有那個廣告實名制這個我們不但已經通過這個法條而且我們確實實施了現在在Facebook在Line在Google上面的所有廣告都已經實施這個實名制而且這個實名制不但要揭露那個出資人也要揭露這個廣告的受益人然後再來我們在打造專法裡面我們規定說當政府通知這些平台要把這個詐騙\n\n08:49.162 --> 09:04.849\n的訊息或廣告下架的時候他們必須在24小時之內執行完成這個也是一樣就是不但法律已經通過而且我們都已經執行都已經做到了部長法律的通過是一件事很好那有執行是一件事很好\n\n09:05.529 --> 09:30.255\n但是最重要的是防不勝防為什麼國人對於政府的打炸的成效還有疑慮或是有問號那感受的問題我們又如何的去讓國人知道說我們是真的盡心盡力用力在防止在打炸我覺得這個部分是你要去思考因為下一頁不是只有這個網路平台而已\n\n09:31.215 --> 09:48.000\n你看到TRADE我在要求很多委員跟我的要求之下你9月15號納管上路那我就開始按照時間序來講你從7月3號公告納管9月15號開始正式實施到現在你自己看這是你們的數字\n\n09:49.708 --> 10:06.721\n9月到10月通報並確認為詐騙廣告跟訊息數多查18000多件變成第三大被通報的平台我們當然也知道說你們有做你們有資安院有AI系統在掃描\n\n10:08.325 --> 10:22.494\n那我就請教一下那催你們有沒有在做有沒有在做防堵有沒有在做掃描尋找那些可能是詐騙的廣告有沒有去做攔截\n\n10:23.516 --> 10:53.119\n是這我們一直都有做事實上Thread雖然之前我們沒有正式納管但是其實我們一直有在做那個Thread上面的詐騙訊息的巡檢那我們發現詐騙訊息的話我們也通知ThreadThread當然它背後就是Meta這個事實上我們都一直有在做那我們現在所以正式納管是因為我們打詐專法是規定的是廣告那Thread在之前在我們打詐專法剛通過的時候它並沒有提供廣告的功能那它在今年的\n\n10:54.060 --> 11:21.360\n我上次有提醒你啊當然當然當然這個我們也注意到了他開始提供廣告的這個功能以後那我們就依照這個打詐專法必須把它正式納管那我們現在也正式納管那事實上也必須跟委員報告就是說在正式納管之前我們就已經開始做這個在Thread上面的這個那個掃描還有偵測還有通報那Thread那邊事實上也都有配合在把一些詐騙的訊息把它下架下來\n\n11:22.470 --> 11:36.973\n那這個關於感覺的方面現在實際上我們大家也注意到最近我們一些詐騙很多都已經從線上轉為線下或者是線上線下的虛實整合這個我們很不願意這樣講但是事實上就是也是\n\n11:37.734 --> 12:01.444\n那個因為我們打詐在線上我們速發不發那個負責的線上打詐有一定的成效所以這個詐騙集團他不斷的流竄他發現說線上純線上的詐騙不行的時候他就轉為線上線下的結合那這個方面我們會再跟那個內政部的警政署我們密切合作我們要一定要一起合作防守不管他是線上線下或者線上線下聯合我們一定要把這個詐騙堵住\n\n12:02.244 --> 12:26.793\n那是不是請你會後給我一個現在各網路平台你們納管之後的一個防止詐騙跟打詐的一個成效不僅僅是數字我也希望能夠有更進一步的一個報告可以讓國人知道好不好給我書面報告我覺得成效是最重要的讓人民有感是最重要的讓人民不要被詐騙更是重中之重\n\n12:27.421 --> 12:36.784\n非常謝謝委員的督促跟鼓勵謝謝好請在速發部請再提供給何委員以及我們本委會的委員辦公室這個打炸的一個成效好不好\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.918,"end":5.024,"text":"那我們是不是請部長來 部長請"},{"start":11.621,"end":39.562,"text":"謝謝 首先要恭喜部長你是從次長升任為部長我要這樣子講 要恭喜謝謝但是我想最重要的是國人最關心的詐騙的問題剛剛在你的業務報告裡面也有提到這個也是我們的業務重點是 當然我們也投入了編列了很多的預算資源"},{"start":40.322,"end":49.915,"text":"那我在疫情之後就是數位化的年代裡面詐騙開始盛行的時候我就開始從20235月20243月20246月202410月202411月20254月20256月"},{"start":58.086,"end":68.15,"text":"每一個會期一定都緊追著我們不管是修法或提案跟質詢我們的打炸的成效如何所以2023年5月"},{"start":71.345,"end":94.4,"text":"部長也知道那時候我們有提案修正打炸的三法不管是各自法刑法等等 都有提高罰則那20243月我們那時候有一個電子簽章的修法所以我記得在那個修法除了我們有共同的來交換意見之外那電子簽章法也確實修正了"},{"start":96.6,"end":108.983,"text":"還有呢我們當時大力宣傳的那個簡訊那個所謂的專屬的簡訊那現在我看看中央跟地方很多的單位也都在用我們政府專屬的一個簡訊那2024的這個6月"},{"start":115.066,"end":131.805,"text":"當時候我們要求要納管所謂的第三方支付因為那時候太多的詐騙集團運用的第三方支付作為洗錢也好 或者是支付也好等等等詐騙的工具所以那時候我們有要求要落實源頭管理"},{"start":132.145,"end":145.114,"text":"那第三方支付現在也正式的有管理了那我們希望接著要問的是管理的成效等一下再給我回答2024年10月當時發現台中的詐騙數全國最高我也要求要跨部會正式那速發部要嚴防那時候要開學了已經開學了每次的開學都有學生還有各式各樣新型的詐騙的手法2024年11月我們要求全面落實廣告實名制"},{"start":162.785,"end":184.98,"text":"那這個部分我們雖然開始了那我當時認為應該要全面上路所有的平台2025年4月LINE的帳號開始應該是說國人被盜用非常的猖狂很多的名人也被盜用那甚至被詐騙所以我們也希望速發部可以協助及時停號這件事情"},{"start":186.321,"end":209.954,"text":"2025年6月又來了我們除了MetaFB IG還有其他的平台之外翠在那時候開始成立一個新興的平台這個平台我們也發現它又變成詐騙的溫床所以我們要求納管實名制開始要從源頭來阻絕詐騙的粉專"},{"start":214.116,"end":230.267,"text":"其實我念了這麼多最重要是剛開始的一句話最關心國人最關心的是有沒有成效啊有沒有成效啊所以我看了一下這個數據是從你們數位發展部的這個通報系統找到的"},{"start":231.536,"end":246.195,"text":"不管是8月31號到9月6號到現在9月28號到10月4號這兩個比較其實都是數字遊戲啦部長我不知道你看得懂不懂啊因為就我的解讀啊這個"},{"start":248.226,"end":269.492,"text":"诈骗广告的数量其实没有减少可是在你们的写法里面这两边比较起来8月31号到9月6号的你们告诉我因为诈骗数有上升所以可是到了9月28号的10月4号的这一周的报告里面"},{"start":270.785,"end":292.036,"text":"我看的數字是差不多啦但是呢在你們下面的說明說有下降有下降有下降所以國人的感受深不深以我走訪基層大家對於這些數字沒有感受啊感受不深啊就是說到底政府打詐的成效有好過沒好過部長你自己說咧"},{"start":295.295,"end":308.988,"text":"謝謝首先要感謝委員過去這一年多以來的督促與支持事實上剛剛委員講的那些各方面的事情我們其實在我們一起的努力之下應該都有做到大部分都已經做到了"},{"start":309.648,"end":330.194,"text":"那我想一定會有一些成效那關於這個報告的確這個我們這樣子顯示因為都是跟上一週比較週跟週比較這個比較不清楚那我們之前之所以沒辦法跟去年我們通常是說那個跟去年同一時期比較那一個原因就是因為網站通報查詢網上線剛好到今年的9月30號剛好滿一週年"},{"start":331.374,"end":355.901,"text":"所以接下來我們其實應該是可以改變我們的報告方式就是我們跟去年同一個時期這樣比這樣比較長時間的去比可能對國人的感覺會比較明顯那依照我們這邊的統計數字來講的話我們現在跟一年前來比的話應該已經是大幅下降了是 所以這個地方我們在報告的形式上我們會在改善當然我們實際上的作為也要改善"},{"start":356.501,"end":382.508,"text":"第一個就數字上來看讓人家無感那我們怎麼改進我們怎麼跟國人報告讓國人有感說政府的打詐是有成效的這第一個我覺得表述的方式要讓人有感第二個這個數字的解讀我覺得很重要因為我們不管是跟一年前比較或者是跟上個月比較或者是跟上個禮拜比較我覺得"},{"start":383.309,"end":387.064,"text":"比较是一种手法但是更重要的是要让"},{"start":388.055,"end":414.011,"text":"人民有感覺說這個打炸是有成效的不然我們在坊間現在我看每個委員關心的也是速發部隊打炸的成效到底有沒有大家都還是一個問號有啦 那個委員我們現在在那個網路上在Facebook上很少在看到有仿冒黃仁勳那個張忠謀還有那個謝金河這個應該都已經很少見了嘛手法改變啦是啊 沒錯"},{"start":415.293,"end":422.93,"text":"只是手法改變我們也要跟著與時俱進來打詐嘛對不對如果你認為有的話那我就在接下來下一頁"},{"start":424.746,"end":447.04,"text":"行政院政府的公共政策網路參與平台現在就有一個提案制定數位打造法一起打造更安全的網路環境然後到目前為止已經超過8000個公民連署我跟你講這個之所以重要是在於他8月28號檢核這個提案是可以的到8月29號就"},{"start":449.281,"end":464.361,"text":"通过达到门槛那这个联署门槛是多少五千所以他一天之内就五千人以上五千个公民联署通过门槛到现在已经超过八千个公民复役"},{"start":466.567,"end":482.33,"text":"部長你說我們有成效那我們要讓人民有感你也認為國人應該有感可是我們看到在這樣子的一個政府的公共政策的網路參與平台裡面大家還是認為應該再制定一個數位打炸法"},{"start":484.81,"end":504.42,"text":"而且連署的速度這麼快那你的立場呢 速發部的立場呢其實我想委員也非常清楚這個基本上數位打詐法這個概念是非常好的但是基本上我們之前的那個打詐專法裡面都已經包含了各種那個關於數位打詐的各種法條"},{"start":505.1,"end":527.981,"text":"我們都已經做了譬如說我們裡面有那個廣告實名制這個我們不但已經通過這個法條而且我們確實實施了現在在Facebook在Line在Google上面的所有廣告都已經實施這個實名制而且這個實名制不但要揭露那個出資人也要揭露這個廣告的受益人然後再來我們在打造專法裡面我們規定說當政府通知這些平台要把這個詐騙"},{"start":529.162,"end":544.849,"text":"的訊息或廣告下架的時候他們必須在24小時之內執行完成這個也是一樣就是不但法律已經通過而且我們都已經執行都已經做到了部長法律的通過是一件事很好那有執行是一件事很好"},{"start":545.529,"end":570.255,"text":"但是最重要的是防不勝防為什麼國人對於政府的打炸的成效還有疑慮或是有問號那感受的問題我們又如何的去讓國人知道說我們是真的盡心盡力用力在防止在打炸我覺得這個部分是你要去思考因為下一頁不是只有這個網路平台而已"},{"start":571.215,"end":588,"text":"你看到TRADE我在要求很多委員跟我的要求之下你9月15號納管上路那我就開始按照時間序來講你從7月3號公告納管9月15號開始正式實施到現在你自己看這是你們的數字"},{"start":589.708,"end":606.721,"text":"9月到10月通報並確認為詐騙廣告跟訊息數多查18000多件變成第三大被通報的平台我們當然也知道說你們有做你們有資安院有AI系統在掃描"},{"start":608.325,"end":622.494,"text":"那我就請教一下那催你們有沒有在做有沒有在做防堵有沒有在做掃描尋找那些可能是詐騙的廣告有沒有去做攔截"},{"start":623.516,"end":653.119,"text":"是 這我們一直都有做事實上Thread雖然之前我們沒有正式納管但是其實我們一直有在做那個Thread上面的詐騙訊息的巡檢那我們發現詐騙訊息的話我們也通知ThreadThread當然它背後就是Meta這個事實上我們都一直有在做那我們現在所以正式納管是因為我們打詐專法是規定的是廣告那Thread在之前在我們打詐專法剛通過的時候它並沒有提供廣告的功能那它在今年的"},{"start":654.06,"end":681.36,"text":"我上次有提醒你啊當然當然當然這個我們也注意到了他開始提供廣告的這個功能以後那我們就依照這個打詐專法必須把它正式納管那我們現在也正式納管那事實上也必須跟委員報告就是說在正式納管之前我們就已經開始做這個在Thread上面的這個那個掃描還有偵測還有通報那Thread那邊事實上也都有配合在把一些詐騙的訊息把它下架下來"},{"start":682.47,"end":696.973,"text":"那這個關於感覺的方面現在實際上我們大家也注意到最近我們一些詐騙很多都已經從線上轉為線下或者是線上線下的虛實整合這個我們很不願意這樣講但是事實上就是也是"},{"start":697.734,"end":721.444,"text":"那個因為我們打詐在線上我們速發不發那個負責的線上打詐有一定的成效所以這個詐騙集團他不斷的流竄他發現說線上純線上的詐騙不行的時候他就轉為線上線下的結合那這個方面我們會再跟那個內政部的警政署我們密切合作我們要一定要一起合作防守不管他是線上線下或者線上線下聯合我們一定要把這個詐騙堵住"},{"start":722.244,"end":746.793,"text":"那是不是請你會後給我一個現在各網路平台你們納管之後的一個防止詐騙跟打詐的一個成效不僅僅是數字我也希望能夠有更進一步的一個報告可以讓國人知道好不好給我書面報告我覺得成效是最重要的讓人民有感是最重要的讓人民不要被詐騙更是重中之重"},{"start":747.421,"end":756.784,"text":"非常謝謝委員的督促跟鼓勵 謝謝好 請在速發部請再提供給何委員以及我們本委會的委員辦公室這個打炸的一個成效 好不好"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":512,"blocks":[["何委員欣純：（10時54分）謝謝洪召委。請部長。"],["主席：部長，請。"],["何委員欣純：謝謝。"],["林部長宜敬：何委員早安。"],["何委員欣純：首先要恭喜部長，你是從次長升任為部長，我要這樣子講，要恭喜！"],["林部長宜敬：謝謝。"],["何委員欣純：但是我想最重要的是國人最關心的詐騙問題，剛剛在你的業務報告裡面也有提到這個也是我們的業務重點。"],["林部長宜敬：是，當然。"],["何委員欣純：我們也投入了、編列了很多預算資源。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["何委員欣純：疫情之後，就是數位化年代裡面詐騙開始盛行的時候，我就開始從2023年5月、2024年3月、2024年6月、2024年10月、2024年11月、2025年4月、2025年6月，每一個會期一定都緊追著，不管是修法、提案跟質詢。我們的打詐成效如何？在2023年5月，部長也知道那時候我們有提案修正打詐三法，不管是個資法、刑法等等。"],["林部長宜敬：非常感謝。"],["何委員欣純：我們都有提高罰責。2024年3月那時候有一個電子簽章的修法，我記得那個修法除了我們共同交換意見之外，電子簽章法也確實修正了。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["何委員欣純：還有我們當時大力宣傳所謂的專屬簡訊碼，現在我看到中央跟地方很多單位也都在用政府專屬的簡訊碼。","2024年6月，當時我們要求納管所謂的第三方支付，因為那時候太多詐騙集團運用第三方支付做為洗錢也好或者支付也好等等等的詐騙工具，所以那時候我們有要求要落實源頭管理，第三方支付現在也正式的有管理了，我們接著要問的是管理的成效，等一下回答我。","2024年10月，當時發現臺中的詐騙數是全國最高，我也要求要跨部會正視，數發部要嚴防，因為那時候已經開學了，每次開學都有學生被騙，還有各式各樣新型的詐騙手法。","2024年11月，我們要求全面落實廣告實名制，這個部分雖然開始了，我當時認為所有平臺應該要全面上路。","2025年4月，國人的LINE帳號被盜用得非常猖狂，很多名人也被盜用，甚至被詐騙，所以我們也希望數發部可以協助及時停號。","2025年6月，又來了！除了Meta、FB、IG等平臺之外，Threads在那時候開始成立一個新興的平臺，我們也發現這個平臺又變成詐騙的溫床，所以我們要求要納管實名制，開始從源頭阻絕詐騙的粉專。","其實我唸了這麼多，最重要的是剛開始的第一句話，國人最關心的是有沒有成效？有沒有成效啊？我看了一下，這個數據是從你們數位發展部的通報系統找到的。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["何委員欣純：不管是8月31號至9月6號，或是9月28號至10月4號，這兩個其實都是數字遊戲啦，部長，我不知道你看了懂不懂，因為就我的解讀，詐騙廣告的數量其實沒有減少，可是在你們的寫法裡面，這兩邊比較起來，8月31號至9月6號，你會告訴我因為詐騙數有上升，所以blah blah blah，可是到了9月28號至10月4號這一週的報告裡面，我看的數字是差不多，但是在你們下面的說明是有下降、有下降、有下降，所以國人的感受深不深？以我走訪基層，大家對於這些數字並沒有感受，感受不深！"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["何委員欣純：也就是說，到底政府打詐的成效有效果還是沒效果？部長，你自己說呢？"],["林部長宜敬：首先要感謝委員過去這一年多以來的督促與支持，事實上剛才委員講的各方面事情，其實在我們一起努力之下應該大部分都已經做到了，我想一定會有一些成效。","關於這個報告，的確我們這樣子顯示，因為都是跟上一週比較，是週跟週比較，這個比較不清楚，我們之前之所以沒辦法跟去年相比，因為通常都是跟去年同一時期比較，一個原因就是因為網詐通報查詢網上線到今年的9月30號剛好滿一週年。所以接下來我們其實應該是可以改變我們的報告方式，那就是跟去年同一時期相比，這樣比較長時間的去比，可能國人的感覺會比較明顯。依照我們這邊的統計數字來講，現在跟一年前來比的話應該已經是大幅下降了。所以這個地方，在報告的形式上我們會再改善，當然我們實際上的作為也要改善。"],["何委員欣純：對，第一個，就數字上來看，讓人家無感！那我們怎麼改進？我們怎麼跟國人報告，讓國人有感政府的打詐是有成效的？這是第一個，我覺得表述的方式要讓人有感。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["何委員欣純：第二個，數字的解讀我覺得很重要，因為我們不管是跟一年前比較或者是跟上個月比較，或者是跟上個禮拜比較，我覺得比較是一種手法，但是更重要的是要讓人民有感覺打詐是有成效的！"],["林部長宜敬：是，沒錯。"],["何委員欣純：不然在坊間，現在我看每個委員關心的也是數發部對於打詐到底有沒有成效？大家都還是一個問號！"],["林部長宜敬：有啦！委員，我們現在在網路上、在Facebook上很少再看到有仿冒黃仁勳、張忠謀、謝金河了，這個應該都已經很少見了嘛！"],["何委員欣純：手法改變啦！"],["林部長宜敬：是啊！沒錯啊！"],["何委員欣純：一樣都是詐騙，只是手法改變啊！那我們也要跟著與時俱進來打詐嘛！對不對？"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["何委員欣純：如果你認為有的話，我就再接下來，行政院政府公共政策網路參與平臺現在就有一個提案：制定數位打詐法，一起打造更安全的網路環境！到目前為止已經超過8,000個公民連署，我跟你講，這個之所以重要是在於8月28號檢核這個提案是可以的，到8月29號連署就通過，也就是達到門檻，而這個連署門檻是多少？5,000！對吧！"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["何委員欣純：所以一天之內就有5,000個公民連署通過門檻，到現在已經超過8,000個公民附議。部長，你說我們有成效，那我們要讓人民有感，你也認為國人應該有感，可是我們看到在一個這樣子的政府公共政策網路參與平臺裡面，大家還是認為應該再制定一個數位打詐法，而且連署的速度這麼快，那你的立場呢？數發部的立場呢？針對這個提案。"],["林部長宜敬：我想委員也非常清楚，基本上數位打詐法這個概念是非常好的，但是我們之前的打詐專法裡面都已經包含關於數位打詐的各種法條，我們都已經做了，譬如說裡面有廣告實名制，這個不但已經通過這個法條，而且我們確實實施了，現在在Facebook、在LINE、在Google上面的所有廣告都已經實施實名制，而且這個實名制不但要揭露出資人，也要揭露廣告的受益人。再來，我們在打詐專法裡面規定，當政府通知這些平臺要把詐騙訊息或廣告下架的時候，他們必須在24小時之內執行完成，這個也是一樣，就是不但法律已經通過，而且我們都已經執行、都已經做到了。"],["何委員欣純：部長，法律有通過是一件事，很好！有執行是一件事，很好！但是最重要的是防不勝防，為什麼國人對於政府打詐的成效還有疑慮或是有問號？感受的問題我們又如何去讓國人知道我們是真的盡心盡力、用力在防止、在打詐？我覺得這個部分你要去思考。"],["林部長宜敬：當然、當然！"],["何委員欣純：因為不是只有網路平臺而已，你看Threads，在很多委員跟我的要求之下，你在9月15號納管上路。我就開始按照時間序來講，你從7月3號公告要納管，9月15號開始正式實施，到現在，你自己看，這是你們的數字，9月到10月通報並確認為詐騙廣告跟訊息數多達一萬八千多件，Threads變成第三大被通報的平臺。我們當然也知道你們有做，你們有資安院、有AI系統在掃描，我就請教一下，Threads你們有沒有在做？有沒有在做防堵？有沒有在掃描、尋找那些可能是詐騙的廣告？有沒有去攔截？"],["林部長宜敬：是，這我們一直都有做，事實上，Threads雖然之前我們沒有正式納管，但是其實我們一直有在做Threads上面的詐騙訊息巡檢，我們發現詐騙訊息的話，我們也通知了Threads，Threads背後就是Meta，事實上這個我們都一直有在做。我們現在之所以正式納管，是因為打詐專法規定的是廣告，Threads在之前我們打詐專法剛通過的時候並沒有提供廣告的功能，它是在今年3月……"],["何委員欣純：它現在有囉！"],["林部長宜敬：它在3月……"],["何委員欣純：對啊！我上次有提醒你啊！"],["林部長宜敬：是，當然、當然，這個我們也注意到了，它開始提供廣告的功能以後，我們就依照打詐專法，必須把它正式納管，我們現在也正式納管了。事實上也必須跟委員報告，在正式納管之前我們就已經開始在Threads上面掃描、偵測，還有通報，Threads那邊也都有配合把一些詐騙訊息下架下來。"],["何委員欣純：好。"],["林部長宜敬：關於感覺方面，其實我們也注意到最近很多詐騙都已經從線上轉為線下，或者是線上、線下的虛實整合，我們很不願意這樣講，但是事實上因為我們數發部負責的線上打詐有一定成效，所以詐騙集團不斷流竄，發現純線上詐騙不行的時候就轉為線上、線下的結合，針對這個方面，我們會再跟內政部警政署密切合作，我們一定要一起合作防守，不管它是線上、線下，或者線上線下聯合，我們一定要把詐騙堵住。"],["何委員欣純：是不是請你會後給我現在各網路平臺在你們納管之後防止詐騙跟打詐的成效，不僅僅是數字，我也希望能夠有更進一步的一個報告可以讓國人知道，好不好？給我書面報告。"],["林部長宜敬：是，沒有問題，謝謝委員。"],["何委員欣純：我覺得成效是最重要的，讓人民有感是最重要的，讓人民不要被詐騙更是重中之重！"],["林部長宜敬：非常謝謝委員的督促跟鼓勵，謝謝。"],["主席：好，請數發部再提供給何委員，以及本委員會委員辦公室關於打詐的成效，好不好？","接下來請林俊憲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-3","speakers":["洪孟楷","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳素月","徐富癸","魯明哲","何欣純","林俊憲","葛如鈞","李昆澤","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","賴士葆","郭國文","羅美玲","黃健豪","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","游顥","賴惠員","陳冠廷","林國成"],"page_start":239,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長林宜敬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00005"}}}