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{\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 430.776, \"end\": 430.796, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 430.796, \"end\": 430.936, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 430.936, \"end\": 430.956, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"鳳\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 430.956, \"end\": 430.976, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,309 --> 00:00:10,783\n謝依鳳委員好謝謝主席我想要請主計長跟沈計長請陳主計長陳沈計長好\n\n2\n00:00:18,717 --> 00:00:35,869\n委員好我想先就叫我們沈記長因為心出爐我想要請問從你過去六年擔任我們中央政府的沈記長那你有什麼樣子重大查核出我們重大的問題\n\n3\n00:00:39,232 --> 00:00:52,492\n因為從住住面的因為系統性的風險很多像那個的時候都那個進口證明都變造或者是都那個這些我們都查出來或者\n\n4\n00:00:54,615 --> 00:00:58,318\n用AI去查行政機關好像廠商違法這些查出來機關都沒有去扣押他的保證金那些保證金我們收回來一萬六千多元\n\n5\n00:01:18,231 --> 00:01:22,612\n我們也有用這種數位損技去查核微標微標的東西也查了差不多有發現有2000多個手上非常高有問題我們都移送檢調檢調也都啟示了200多件\n\n6\n00:01:40,279 --> 00:01:47,588\n這個大概我們都有在做這些講的很多啦從制度面來講我們也創立了本來都只有一個審核報告我們現在把營業非營業公務\n\n7\n00:01:55,198 --> 00:02:18,821\n這些就按這個把它編成一個審核報告比較容易讓大眾閱讀成立了總結算的那個查核平台它可以用進去以後整個就可以查5年到10年的相關的我們審計資料那你第二任期呢你第二任期重大的\n\n8\n00:02:19,341 --> 00:02:37,454\n因為任期剛剛講的我們潤性剛剛在談現在極端氣候我們有一個提出潤性審計像我們的下水道排水道像那個雨水排水道現在極端氣候來的時候都大水嘛我們就希望\n\n9\n00:02:38,194 --> 00:03:00,009\n从润性审计的时候就是希望把它的那个雨水排水道这个本来是7000多公里现在还完成5000多公里还差2000多公里因为现在整个极端气候从哪里来不晓得所以我们提出润性审计所以为什么最近容易淹水你认为是从雨水下水道\n\n10\n00:03:00,689 --> 00:03:18,419\n因為我們要多方考慮除了它極端下雨量很大但是怎麼樣把水排出去變成重要你哪一個階段清衣沒有做好或者哪一個階段沒有把它打通\n\n11\n00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:38,796\n它都會造成整個淹水這一次南部有一些淹水那就是我們看高雄有兩百多公里台南也有兩百多公里都沒有那個雨水下水道都沒做像這個我們會慢慢要求國土計畫署盡量幫助地方把這事情做好這個對人民的生命財產安全影響很大\n\n12\n00:03:46,543 --> 00:03:55,108\n所以我們要做的像我們最近強調我們台灣的優勢就是AI那我們會從AI裡面來發展智慧審計智慧審計就是一種有些事情都藏在細節裡面我們用智慧審計可以把它整個系統性的風險剛剛講的幾個系統性的風險找出來\n\n13\n00:04:12,117 --> 00:04:21,350\n再來我們因為國家勇氣很重要像財政要勇氣各方面的勇氣我們都會慢慢做最後我們是希望能幫助整個政府促進良善助理\n\n14\n00:04:27,554 --> 00:04:53,642\n好那現在中央政府跟地方政府的確發聲了就是因為這個才化法我也想要就教於主計長那這個才化法的修正草案我相信未來你們也要做相關的討論那到底就是地方政府的一般性補助款怎麼樣處理你是不是可以跟大家說明一下\n\n15\n00:04:53,942 --> 00:04:59,304\n這個是這樣因為財劃法本來是我們給地方政府差不多一億四十有一兆多一億五當然我看了主計總數的也有一兆一千多這個是事和錢要好好因為我們地方租住實行很多年事和錢要大家分清楚\n\n16\n00:05:15,451 --> 00:05:32,578\n這個地方來做可能比較順利你也不要再去干涉地方了這個把它劃分清除錢走下去就從這裡再來看這些整個一般性補助款整個整理對國家對整個中央和以後的和諧會非常大家都變成爭議點就是說中央要和地方好好坐下來談一談\n\n17\n00:05:43,107 --> 00:05:59,472\n還有除了一般性補助款還有計劃性補助款的部分是不是計劃性補助款剛剛聽主席長講它已經不是按申請住了它改成它會有公宿化盡量公宿化這個就是說不要淪為操作\n\n18\n00:06:00,692 --> 00:06:19,703\n我今天要下一個農田水路的問題我們有多少農田水路夠縣市政府多少年農田水路我們這個下去大家哪一些問題要處理有一個公式化公式化什麼時候會出來\n\n19\n00:06:22,484 --> 00:06:47,754\n公數的話因為主計總署還有國發會還有行政院在這整體的衡量但是就是說我們目前如果按照公式的話會不會違背當初我們修法的時候的這個應該還好應該還好應該不會因為最最重要的全國數一體的並只有一個\n\n20\n00:06:49,442 --> 00:07:09,694\n中央都出了地方就少地方都出了中央就少但是我們是誰這錢用在哪裡功效最大誰來做功效最大有的時候要全國一致性的你像珠三環紅那是從上中下游一直做下去這個是可能中央要負起責任\n\n21\n00:07:10,235 --> 00:07:10,976\n大概錢就歸到中央來這個大概我比較偏向用這樣時事求是的問題解決這些問題好謝謝謝謝謝謝鳳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n309\t10783\t謝依鳳委員好謝謝主席我想要請主計長跟沈計長請陳主計長陳沈計長好\n18717\t35869\t委員好我想先就叫我們沈記長因為心出爐我想要請問從你過去六年擔任我們中央政府的沈記長那你有什麼樣子重大查核出我們重大的問題\n39232\t52492\t因為從住住面的因為系統性的風險很多像那個的時候都那個進口證明都變造或者是都那個這些我們都查出來或者\n54615\t58318\t用AI去查行政機關好像廠商違法這些查出來機關都沒有去扣押他的保證金那些保證金我們收回來一萬六千多元\n78231\t82612\t我們也有用這種數位損技去查核微標微標的東西也查了差不多有發現有2000多個手上非常高有問題我們都移送檢調檢調也都啟示了200多件\n100279\t107588\t這個大概我們都有在做這些講的很多啦從制度面來講我們也創立了本來都只有一個審核報告我們現在把營業非營業公務\n115198\t138821\t這些就按這個把它編成一個審核報告比較容易讓大眾閱讀成立了總結算的那個查核平台它可以用進去以後整個就可以查5年到10年的相關的我們審計資料那你第二任期呢 你第二任期重大的\n139341\t157454\t因為任期剛剛講的我們潤性剛剛在談現在極端氣候我們有一個提出潤性審計像我們的下水道 排水道像那個雨水排水道現在極端氣候來的時候都大水嘛我們就希望\n158194\t180009\t从润性审计的时候就是希望把它的那个雨水排水道这个本来是7000多公里现在还完成5000多公里还差2000多公里因为现在整个极端气候从哪里来不晓得所以我们提出润性审计所以为什么最近容易淹水你认为是从雨水下水道\n180689\t198419\t因為我們要多方考慮除了它極端下雨量很大但是怎麼樣把水排出去變成重要你哪一個階段清衣沒有做好或者哪一個階段沒有把它打通\n199319\t218796\t它都會造成整個淹水這一次南部有一些淹水那就是我們看高雄有兩百多公里台南也有兩百多公里都沒有那個雨水下水道都沒做像這個我們會慢慢要求國土計畫署盡量幫助地方把這事情做好這個對人民的生命財產安全影響很大\n226543\t235108\t所以我們要做的像我們最近強調我們台灣的優勢就是AI那我們會從AI裡面來發展智慧審計智慧審計就是一種有些事情都藏在細節裡面我們用智慧審計可以把它整個系統性的風險剛剛講的幾個系統性的風險找出來\n252117\t261350\t再來我們因為國家勇氣很重要像財政要勇氣各方面的勇氣我們都會慢慢做最後我們是希望能幫助整個政府促進良善助理\n267554\t293642\t好 那現在中央政府跟地方政府的確發聲了就是因為這個才化法我也想要就教於主計長那這個才化法的修正草案我相信未來你們也要做相關的討論那到底就是地方政府的一般性補助款怎麼樣處理你是不是可以跟大家說明一下\n293942\t299304\t這個是這樣因為財劃法本來是我們給地方政府差不多一億四十有一兆多一億五當然我看了主計總數的也有一兆一千多這個是事和錢要好好因為我們地方租住實行很多年事和錢要大家分清楚\n315451\t332578\t這個地方來做可能比較順利你也不要再去干涉地方了這個把它劃分清除錢走下去就從這裡再來看這些整個一般性補助款整個整理對國家對整個中央和以後的和諧會非常大家都變成爭議點就是說中央要和地方好好坐下來談一談\n343107\t359472\t還有除了一般性補助款還有計劃性補助款的部分是不是計劃性補助款剛剛聽主席長講它已經不是按申請住了它改成它會有公宿化盡量公宿化這個就是說不要淪為操作\n360692\t379703\t我今天要下一個農田水路的問題我們有多少農田水路夠縣市政府多少年農田水路我們這個下去大家哪一些問題要處理有一個公式化公式化什麼時候會出來\n382484\t407754\t公數的話因為主計總署還有國發會還有行政院在這整體的衡量但是就是說我們目前如果按照公式的話會不會違背當初我們修法的時候的這個應該還好應該還好應該不會因為最最重要的全國數一體的並只有一個\n409442\t429694\t中央都出了地方就少地方都出了中央就少但是我們是誰這錢用在哪裡功效最大誰來做功效最大有的時候要全國一致性的你像珠三環紅那是從上中下游一直做下去這個是可能中央要負起責任\n430235\t430976\t大概錢就歸到中央來這個大概我比較偏向用這樣時事求是的問題解決這些問題好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝鳳委員\n","txt":"謝依鳳委員好謝謝主席我想要請主計長跟沈計長請陳主計長陳沈計長好\n委員好我想先就叫我們沈記長因為心出爐我想要請問從你過去六年擔任我們中央政府的沈記長那你有什麼樣子重大查核出我們重大的問題\n因為從住住面的因為系統性的風險很多像那個的時候都那個進口證明都變造或者是都那個這些我們都查出來或者\n用AI去查行政機關好像廠商違法這些查出來機關都沒有去扣押他的保證金那些保證金我們收回來一萬六千多元\n我們也有用這種數位損技去查核微標微標的東西也查了差不多有發現有2000多個手上非常高有問題我們都移送檢調檢調也都啟示了200多件\n這個大概我們都有在做這些講的很多啦從制度面來講我們也創立了本來都只有一個審核報告我們現在把營業非營業公務\n這些就按這個把它編成一個審核報告比較容易讓大眾閱讀成立了總結算的那個查核平台它可以用進去以後整個就可以查5年到10年的相關的我們審計資料那你第二任期呢 你第二任期重大的\n因為任期剛剛講的我們潤性剛剛在談現在極端氣候我們有一個提出潤性審計像我們的下水道 排水道像那個雨水排水道現在極端氣候來的時候都大水嘛我們就希望\n从润性审计的时候就是希望把它的那个雨水排水道这个本来是7000多公里现在还完成5000多公里还差2000多公里因为现在整个极端气候从哪里来不晓得所以我们提出润性审计所以为什么最近容易淹水你认为是从雨水下水道\n因為我們要多方考慮除了它極端下雨量很大但是怎麼樣把水排出去變成重要你哪一個階段清衣沒有做好或者哪一個階段沒有把它打通\n它都會造成整個淹水這一次南部有一些淹水那就是我們看高雄有兩百多公里台南也有兩百多公里都沒有那個雨水下水道都沒做像這個我們會慢慢要求國土計畫署盡量幫助地方把這事情做好這個對人民的生命財產安全影響很大\n所以我們要做的像我們最近強調我們台灣的優勢就是AI那我們會從AI裡面來發展智慧審計智慧審計就是一種有些事情都藏在細節裡面我們用智慧審計可以把它整個系統性的風險剛剛講的幾個系統性的風險找出來\n再來我們因為國家勇氣很重要像財政要勇氣各方面的勇氣我們都會慢慢做最後我們是希望能幫助整個政府促進良善助理\n好 那現在中央政府跟地方政府的確發聲了就是因為這個才化法我也想要就教於主計長那這個才化法的修正草案我相信未來你們也要做相關的討論那到底就是地方政府的一般性補助款怎麼樣處理你是不是可以跟大家說明一下\n這個是這樣因為財劃法本來是我們給地方政府差不多一億四十有一兆多一億五當然我看了主計總數的也有一兆一千多這個是事和錢要好好因為我們地方租住實行很多年事和錢要大家分清楚\n這個地方來做可能比較順利你也不要再去干涉地方了這個把它劃分清除錢走下去就從這裡再來看這些整個一般性補助款整個整理對國家對整個中央和以後的和諧會非常大家都變成爭議點就是說中央要和地方好好坐下來談一談\n還有除了一般性補助款還有計劃性補助款的部分是不是計劃性補助款剛剛聽主席長講它已經不是按申請住了它改成它會有公宿化盡量公宿化這個就是說不要淪為操作\n我今天要下一個農田水路的問題我們有多少農田水路夠縣市政府多少年農田水路我們這個下去大家哪一些問題要處理有一個公式化公式化什麼時候會出來\n公數的話因為主計總署還有國發會還有行政院在這整體的衡量但是就是說我們目前如果按照公式的話會不會違背當初我們修法的時候的這個應該還好應該還好應該不會因為最最重要的全國數一體的並只有一個\n中央都出了地方就少地方都出了中央就少但是我們是誰這錢用在哪裡功效最大誰來做功效最大有的時候要全國一致性的你像珠三環紅那是從上中下游一直做下去這個是可能中央要負起責任\n大概錢就歸到中央來這個大概我比較偏向用這樣時事求是的問題解決這些問題好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝鳳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.309 --> 00:10.783\n謝依鳳委員好謝謝主席我想要請主計長跟沈計長請陳主計長陳沈計長好\n\n00:18.717 --> 00:35.869\n委員好我想先就叫我們沈記長因為心出爐我想要請問從你過去六年擔任我們中央政府的沈記長那你有什麼樣子重大查核出我們重大的問題\n\n00:39.232 --> 00:52.492\n因為從住住面的因為系統性的風險很多像那個的時候都那個進口證明都變造或者是都那個這些我們都查出來或者\n\n00:54.615 --> 00:58.318\n用AI去查行政機關好像廠商違法這些查出來機關都沒有去扣押他的保證金那些保證金我們收回來一萬六千多元\n\n01:18.231 --> 01:22.612\n我們也有用這種數位損技去查核微標微標的東西也查了差不多有發現有2000多個手上非常高有問題我們都移送檢調檢調也都啟示了200多件\n\n01:40.279 --> 01:47.588\n這個大概我們都有在做這些講的很多啦從制度面來講我們也創立了本來都只有一個審核報告我們現在把營業非營業公務\n\n01:55.198 --> 02:18.821\n這些就按這個把它編成一個審核報告比較容易讓大眾閱讀成立了總結算的那個查核平台它可以用進去以後整個就可以查5年到10年的相關的我們審計資料那你第二任期呢你第二任期重大的\n\n02:19.341 --> 02:37.454\n因為任期剛剛講的我們潤性剛剛在談現在極端氣候我們有一個提出潤性審計像我們的下水道排水道像那個雨水排水道現在極端氣候來的時候都大水嘛我們就希望\n\n02:38.194 --> 03:00.009\n从润性审计的时候就是希望把它的那个雨水排水道这个本来是7000多公里现在还完成5000多公里还差2000多公里因为现在整个极端气候从哪里来不晓得所以我们提出润性审计所以为什么最近容易淹水你认为是从雨水下水道\n\n03:00.689 --> 03:18.419\n因為我們要多方考慮除了它極端下雨量很大但是怎麼樣把水排出去變成重要你哪一個階段清衣沒有做好或者哪一個階段沒有把它打通\n\n03:19.319 --> 03:38.796\n它都會造成整個淹水這一次南部有一些淹水那就是我們看高雄有兩百多公里台南也有兩百多公里都沒有那個雨水下水道都沒做像這個我們會慢慢要求國土計畫署盡量幫助地方把這事情做好這個對人民的生命財產安全影響很大\n\n03:46.543 --> 03:55.108\n所以我們要做的像我們最近強調我們台灣的優勢就是AI那我們會從AI裡面來發展智慧審計智慧審計就是一種有些事情都藏在細節裡面我們用智慧審計可以把它整個系統性的風險剛剛講的幾個系統性的風險找出來\n\n04:12.117 --> 04:21.350\n再來我們因為國家勇氣很重要像財政要勇氣各方面的勇氣我們都會慢慢做最後我們是希望能幫助整個政府促進良善助理\n\n04:27.554 --> 04:53.642\n好那現在中央政府跟地方政府的確發聲了就是因為這個才化法我也想要就教於主計長那這個才化法的修正草案我相信未來你們也要做相關的討論那到底就是地方政府的一般性補助款怎麼樣處理你是不是可以跟大家說明一下\n\n04:53.942 --> 04:59.304\n這個是這樣因為財劃法本來是我們給地方政府差不多一億四十有一兆多一億五當然我看了主計總數的也有一兆一千多這個是事和錢要好好因為我們地方租住實行很多年事和錢要大家分清楚\n\n05:15.451 --> 05:32.578\n這個地方來做可能比較順利你也不要再去干涉地方了這個把它劃分清除錢走下去就從這裡再來看這些整個一般性補助款整個整理對國家對整個中央和以後的和諧會非常大家都變成爭議點就是說中央要和地方好好坐下來談一談\n\n05:43.107 --> 05:59.472\n還有除了一般性補助款還有計劃性補助款的部分是不是計劃性補助款剛剛聽主席長講它已經不是按申請住了它改成它會有公宿化盡量公宿化這個就是說不要淪為操作\n\n06:00.692 --> 06:19.703\n我今天要下一個農田水路的問題我們有多少農田水路夠縣市政府多少年農田水路我們這個下去大家哪一些問題要處理有一個公式化公式化什麼時候會出來\n\n06:22.484 --> 06:47.754\n公數的話因為主計總署還有國發會還有行政院在這整體的衡量但是就是說我們目前如果按照公式的話會不會違背當初我們修法的時候的這個應該還好應該還好應該不會因為最最重要的全國數一體的並只有一個\n\n06:49.442 --> 07:09.694\n中央都出了地方就少地方都出了中央就少但是我們是誰這錢用在哪裡功效最大誰來做功效最大有的時候要全國一致性的你像珠三環紅那是從上中下游一直做下去這個是可能中央要負起責任\n\n07:10.235 --> 07:10.976\n大概錢就歸到中央來這個大概我比較偏向用這樣時事求是的問題解決這些問題好謝謝謝謝謝謝鳳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.309,"end":10.783,"text":"謝依鳳委員好謝謝主席我想要請主計長跟沈計長請陳主計長陳沈計長好"},{"start":18.717,"end":35.869,"text":"委員好我想先就叫我們沈記長因為心出爐我想要請問從你過去六年擔任我們中央政府的沈記長那你有什麼樣子重大查核出我們重大的問題"},{"start":39.232,"end":52.492,"text":"因為從住住面的因為系統性的風險很多像那個的時候都那個進口證明都變造或者是都那個這些我們都查出來或者"},{"start":54.615,"end":58.318,"text":"用AI去查行政機關好像廠商違法這些查出來機關都沒有去扣押他的保證金那些保證金我們收回來一萬六千多元"},{"start":78.231,"end":82.612,"text":"我們也有用這種數位損技去查核微標微標的東西也查了差不多有發現有2000多個手上非常高有問題我們都移送檢調檢調也都啟示了200多件"},{"start":100.279,"end":107.588,"text":"這個大概我們都有在做這些講的很多啦從制度面來講我們也創立了本來都只有一個審核報告我們現在把營業非營業公務"},{"start":115.198,"end":138.821,"text":"這些就按這個把它編成一個審核報告比較容易讓大眾閱讀成立了總結算的那個查核平台它可以用進去以後整個就可以查5年到10年的相關的我們審計資料那你第二任期呢 你第二任期重大的"},{"start":139.341,"end":157.454,"text":"因為任期剛剛講的我們潤性剛剛在談現在極端氣候我們有一個提出潤性審計像我們的下水道 排水道像那個雨水排水道現在極端氣候來的時候都大水嘛我們就希望"},{"start":158.194,"end":180.009,"text":"从润性审计的时候就是希望把它的那个雨水排水道这个本来是7000多公里现在还完成5000多公里还差2000多公里因为现在整个极端气候从哪里来不晓得所以我们提出润性审计所以为什么最近容易淹水你认为是从雨水下水道"},{"start":180.689,"end":198.419,"text":"因為我們要多方考慮除了它極端下雨量很大但是怎麼樣把水排出去變成重要你哪一個階段清衣沒有做好或者哪一個階段沒有把它打通"},{"start":199.319,"end":218.796,"text":"它都會造成整個淹水這一次南部有一些淹水那就是我們看高雄有兩百多公里台南也有兩百多公里都沒有那個雨水下水道都沒做像這個我們會慢慢要求國土計畫署盡量幫助地方把這事情做好這個對人民的生命財產安全影響很大"},{"start":226.543,"end":235.108,"text":"所以我們要做的像我們最近強調我們台灣的優勢就是AI那我們會從AI裡面來發展智慧審計智慧審計就是一種有些事情都藏在細節裡面我們用智慧審計可以把它整個系統性的風險剛剛講的幾個系統性的風險找出來"},{"start":252.117,"end":261.35,"text":"再來我們因為國家勇氣很重要像財政要勇氣各方面的勇氣我們都會慢慢做最後我們是希望能幫助整個政府促進良善助理"},{"start":267.554,"end":293.642,"text":"好 那現在中央政府跟地方政府的確發聲了就是因為這個才化法我也想要就教於主計長那這個才化法的修正草案我相信未來你們也要做相關的討論那到底就是地方政府的一般性補助款怎麼樣處理你是不是可以跟大家說明一下"},{"start":293.942,"end":299.304,"text":"這個是這樣因為財劃法本來是我們給地方政府差不多一億四十有一兆多一億五當然我看了主計總數的也有一兆一千多這個是事和錢要好好因為我們地方租住實行很多年事和錢要大家分清楚"},{"start":315.451,"end":332.578,"text":"這個地方來做可能比較順利你也不要再去干涉地方了這個把它劃分清除錢走下去就從這裡再來看這些整個一般性補助款整個整理對國家對整個中央和以後的和諧會非常大家都變成爭議點就是說中央要和地方好好坐下來談一談"},{"start":343.107,"end":359.472,"text":"還有除了一般性補助款還有計劃性補助款的部分是不是計劃性補助款剛剛聽主席長講它已經不是按申請住了它改成它會有公宿化盡量公宿化這個就是說不要淪為操作"},{"start":360.692,"end":379.703,"text":"我今天要下一個農田水路的問題我們有多少農田水路夠縣市政府多少年農田水路我們這個下去大家哪一些問題要處理有一個公式化公式化什麼時候會出來"},{"start":382.484,"end":407.754,"text":"公數的話因為主計總署還有國發會還有行政院在這整體的衡量但是就是說我們目前如果按照公式的話會不會違背當初我們修法的時候的這個應該還好應該還好應該不會因為最最重要的全國數一體的並只有一個"},{"start":409.442,"end":429.694,"text":"中央都出了地方就少地方都出了中央就少但是我們是誰這錢用在哪裡功效最大誰來做功效最大有的時候要全國一致性的你像珠三環紅那是從上中下游一直做下去這個是可能中央要負起責任"},{"start":430.235,"end":430.976,"text":"大概錢就歸到中央來這個大概我比較偏向用這樣時事求是的問題解決這些問題好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝鳳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1031,"blocks":[["謝委員衣鳯：（11時57分）謝謝主席，我想要請主計長跟審計長。"],["主席：請陳主計長、陳審計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：委員好。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我想先就教我們審計長，因為新出爐喔，我想要請問，從你過去六年擔任我們中央政府的審計長，那你有查核出我們什麼樣的重大問題？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：從制度面的，因為系統性的風險很多，像驗收的時候那個進口證明都變造，這些我們都查出來，或者用AI去查行政機關，好像廠商違法這些查出來，機關都沒有去扣押他的保證金，那些保證金我們收回來一萬六千多元。我們也有用數位審計去查核圍標，圍標的東西也查了差不多有發現了兩千多個廠商有問題，我們都移送檢調，檢調也起訴了兩百多件。我們都有在做這些，從制度面來講，我們也創立了，本來都只有一個審核報告，我們現在把營業、非營業、公務這些，都編成一個審核報告，比較容易讓大眾閱讀，也成立了總決算的查核平台，進去以後，整個就可以查5年到10年的相關審計資料。"],["謝委員衣鳯：你第二任期的重大目標呢？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：剛剛講的韌性，剛剛談現在極端氣候，我們提出一個韌性審計，像我們的下水道、雨水排水道，現在極端氣候來的時候都大水，我們韌性審計就是希望把它的雨水排水道做好，本來七千多公里，現在完成五千多公里，還差二千多公里，因為現在整個極端氣候從哪裡來不曉得，所以我們提出韌性審計，國家……"],["謝委員衣鳯：為什麼最近容易淹水？你認為是從雨水下水道？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：因為我們要多方考慮，除了極端的下雨量很大，要怎樣把水排出去變很重要，哪一個階段清淤沒有做好，或者哪一個階段沒有打通，都會造成整個淹水，這次南部有一些淹水，我們看到高雄有二百多公里、臺南也有二百多公里的雨水下水道都沒做，這個我們會慢慢要求國土管理署儘量幫助地方把這事情做好，這個對人民的生命財產安全影響很大。最近我們強調臺灣的優勢就是AI，我們會從AI裡面來發展智慧審計，有些事情都藏在細節裡面，我們用智慧審計可以把剛剛講的幾個系統性的風險找出來。再來，國家永續很重要，像財政要永續，各方面的永續我們都要慢慢做。最後我們是希望能夠幫助整個政府促進良善治理。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好。現在中央政府和地方政府的確發生了問題，這是因為財劃法，我想就教於審計長，財劃法的修正草案我相信未來你們也要做相關的討論，到底地方政府的一般性補助款怎樣處理？你是不是可以跟大家說明一下。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：依照財劃法，我們給地方政府114年差不多有一兆多元，115年我看了主計總處資料也有一兆一千多億元，事和錢要好好處理，我們地方自治實行很多年了，事和錢大家要分清楚，這個地方來做可能比較順利，中央也不要再去干涉地方，把它劃分清楚，錢、責下去，從這裡再來看一般性補助款，整個整理對國家、對中央和以後的和諧會有幫助，對爭議點，中央和地方要好好坐下來談一談。"],["謝委員衣鳯：除了一般性補助款，還有計畫性補助款的部分，是不是？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：計畫性補助款剛剛聽主計長講已經不是按申請制，會有公式化，儘量公式化，就是不要人為操作，今天要下一個農田水路的問題，各縣市政府有多少農田水路，這個下去有哪些問題要處理，有一個公式化，這樣……"],["謝委員衣鳯：公式化什麼時候會出來？"],["陳審計長瑞敏：主計總處、國發會和行政院再做整體的衡量。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是我們目前如果按照公式，會不會違背當初我們修法的時候的……"],["主席：簡單回答就好。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：應該還好，因為最重要的是全國是一體的，餅只有一個，中央多吃了，地方就少；地方多吃了，中央就少。但是錢用在哪裡功效最大、誰來做功效最大，有時候要全國一致性的，像治山防洪，那是從上、中、下游一直做下去，這可能就中央要負起責任，錢就歸到中央來，我比較偏向這樣實事求是的態度解決這些問題。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["陳審計長瑞敏：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝謝衣鳯委員。","接下來請林思銘召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":182,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-2","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","羅明才","葉元之","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","林思銘","王世堅","陳玉珍"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00003"}}}