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\"委\", \"start\": 780.908, \"end\": 780.928, \"score\": 0.012}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,215 --> 00:00:17,250\n謝謝召委請部長沒關係部長你喝一下口喝一下水喝水喝水一下好有請鄭部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:19,654 --> 00:00:46,530\n部長好部長這邊想請教針對您在10月7號在議院會回答王逸川委員的詢答的時候部長您是認同應該來禁止使用抖音本期在這邊想要再進一步的請教部長還有我們教育部未來是不是會禁止的部分除了禁止抖音還是其他相關的中國應用的程式都會禁止包含最近很夯的小紅書\n\n3\n00:00:48,332 --> 00:01:12,689\n因為其實這個家除了我們教育界非常的關心家長也非常的關心還有像人本教育基金會他甚至倡議為了面對小紅書及抖音無孔不入而且為了避免孩子成為AI的工具應該要倡議抗網保孩他的執行長表示說我們不能期待抖音或小紅書自己改變\n\n4\n00:01:13,510 --> 00:01:26,129\n所以看网保还是公卫的议题需要全社会的共同参与需要全民的投入那我这边想请教部长我们教育部这边会有什么具体的做法\n\n5\n00:01:28,287 --> 00:01:55,038\n謝謝委員關心我們這個青少年的一個發展有一個更好的一個發展的一個環境確實我們行政院本來就有頒布這個公布這個各機關對危害國家自通性安全產品的限制使用原則那麼在公務設備中小學不僅是大專校院公立中小學的公務設備也都不能使用像這個大陸的廠牌跟軟硬體跟服務所以我們臺灣學術網路\n\n6\n00:01:57,964 --> 00:02:11,076\n它内的基本上就是在支持师生教学跟学习所以有关抖音跟小文书这些的跟学习内容跟学习相关性比较低的我们也会影响到\n\n7\n00:02:12,735 --> 00:02:38,038\n兒少的身心發展這些我們事實上在這個他那裡都已經把它排除掉不是啊您這邊的說法我認可就是我們自己本身從自己做起的以公務員的部分以教師的部分我們自己先禁止使用那針對禁止青少年使用的這個部分我們教育部會不會召集教師家長及學生團體共同來研議相關的規範\n\n8\n00:02:39,179 --> 00:03:02,072\n事實上跟我們報告也感謝我們關係我們對這個網路上的一些使用我們本來就有跟教師團體跟家長團體還有校長團體甚至三大的國內的通信業者我們都有座談也希望怎麼去透過源頭的一些協助來協助家長能夠讓青少年減少去接觸到\n\n9\n00:03:03,092 --> 00:03:23,575\n所以我們有跟相關的團體來座談收集這些聲音這些意見我想請教部長針對有學生團體他們表示說禁止抖音不如教導如何正確試讀那教育部這邊你們立場跟配套是什麼我想我們是這是雙款旗下的\n\n10\n00:03:24,756 --> 00:03:51,334\n就是說我們怎麼樣讓這個青少年能夠透過這個試讀辨別裡邊許多的網路它的一個西甲進行或者一些影響不當的一些信息我想這當然教育部這個應該要教我們在這個資訊教育這個部分我們當然也都會有納入的所以教育部這邊會不會持續的來收集包含學生團體的聲音\n\n11\n00:03:53,695 --> 00:04:07,302\n我想當然學生的幾多不同教育階段學生的一些聲音我們當然一直就教育部的立場來講這個是台灣未來的所有的希望我們當然會也收集學生的一些聲音\n\n12\n00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:24,102\n我們希望來管制跟禁止抖音這是分成兩個部分來談第一個部分本期之前也非常關心關於短影音的部分我們是憂心短影音會讓孩子越來越沒有耐心進而影響孩子相關的發展及學習\n\n13\n00:04:25,003 --> 00:04:46,211\n那在這個部分呢本席之前有在總質詢的時候提出當時的教育部長潘部長有承諾說會做教師增能來協助教學現場的教師呢來應付這樣的狀況那本席希望說目前教育部你們應該還是持續有在進行相關增能的工作嘛也會有繼續收集教學現場的狀況希望說我們能夠適度的來調整繼續的來持續這樣子相關增能的內容\n\n14\n00:04:52,994 --> 00:05:10,859\n讓教學現場的老師可以有更多的後盾我們希望這個一定要繼續保持我們不僅是在老師稱我們有發展這個有許多優秀的老師發展這個相關專業的這些教學網路這個網路教學的許多的一個材料提供我們老師上來參考\n\n15\n00:05:12,139 --> 00:05:25,533\n那第二個部分呢就我們為什麼希望禁止抖音是因為抖音呢有一個非常不一樣的現象跟其他中國音樂軟體沒有的就是它常常會出現一種不合理性的行為就是所謂的抖音挑戰這個部長您知道嗎\n\n16\n00:05:27,455 --> 00:05:43,107\n所謂的抖音挑戰就是要青少年做出指定的行為再來標註這個標籤那這個在國外的青少年間可以說是蔚為風潮但是這都是非常危險的例如像昏迷挑戰就是要求加入直播者用神狀物品等\n\n17\n00:05:43,487 --> 00:06:02,757\n立住自己長時間憋住呼吸直到昏迷來體驗冰死的感受或者是造成多起少年意外死亡的這個地鐵衝浪就是故意在行進中的地鐵的車廂車頂車門外車廂邊緣站立攀爬或是跳躍用這樣危險的動作來勃起他們的關注\n\n18\n00:06:03,217 --> 00:06:18,763\n另外還有所謂的吞藥挑戰跳水挑戰等等甚至在巴西有一個8歲的女童她模仿這個止汗劑挑戰她對自己身體狂奔止汗劑之後呢造成死亡所以她的父親他就覺得非常的質疑喔說\n\n19\n00:06:19,563 --> 00:06:33,319\n這些平台充斥著兒童觀眾但他們證實生命的起點在這個平台上卻沒有任何過濾的措施為什麼兒童觀看的影片沒有任何保護的機制這是女童她家長的質疑\n\n20\n00:06:34,380 --> 00:06:59,420\n抖音的这些种种的危险挑战在国外造成很多青少年失去生命当然这个也还有中国他在后台收集使用者资料的这样的问题所以这已经是不单单是所谓什么文化玻璃心本席认为说为了流量而去做这些毫无意义的挑战青少年如何可以做到克制或是识别到怎样的程度这是我们应该要考量的\n\n21\n00:06:59,620 --> 00:07:28,841\n我想像这些所谓的昏迷的挑战这些等等的这些本来就是不足取它绝对是违反社会的一个乱言之一那我想这为什么我们看到这个美国川普总统在前一阵子他透过这个贸易的一个他希望把抖音整个能够把由美国把它买下来让它回忆到一个比较正常的一个商业的一个经营的一个模式我想\n\n22\n00:07:29,481 --> 00:07:58,661\n這都也可以看出網路影響群體我們也要用群體的力量來影響網路回到正軌那禁止抖音或是管制抖音的近期也是都是各國討論的重點那其他國家大部分就是因為國安的問題會禁止公務人員公務機關來下載這些中國的軟體像阿爾巴尼亞它就是因為抖音引起青少年的暴力事件它禁抖音一年所以抖音的危害真的不只是短影音文化思想的灌輸\n\n23\n00:07:59,221 --> 00:08:21,839\n其實真的我要再次強調這個不只是文化玻璃性的問題這裡面還包含就是我們台灣青少年的人身安全心理健康所以我會一直強調每次有機會跟部長討論的時候我都會提到說我們應該要跟教師團體家長團體學生團體進行溝通研究然後要也很謹慎的做相關的配套的做法\n\n24\n00:08:22,239 --> 00:08:50,279\n那在这一点呢教育部你们现在目前你们对自己现在做的有什么觉得还要再补足的我想也感谢委员的关心因为确实我们也跟三大的电信业者从开学或者学校的许多的进展我们都有专人包含我们知科师全国有几十个据点都能够提供这一个家长的一些在这方面的一些协助只要家长愿意\n\n25\n00:08:50,959 --> 00:09:20,242\n我们除了宣传以外也实际在技术上协助家长来做许多的这些手机上的一些等于说一些把它做一些隔离让青少年能够有一个更好的一个使用手机能够有助于他学习但是不妨碍他的生意不能影响到他的一个发展不管是身体上或是心理上那这个部分也请教育部这边要持续的来收集相关的声音持续的来检讨\n\n26\n00:09:20,982 --> 00:09:50,191\n然后能够做更周全的相关的配套好那接下来本席要请教在上周的财政联席的时候本席有询问过部长关于财劃法的影响在教育经费分配的问题那当时本席希望教育部能够尽速跟各地方政府协调经费如何分配也有提醒教育部应该跟民众说明分配的结果那部长这边您也做到了在周末的时候就迅速的公布明年将有地方政府来负担的相关的经费的项目\n\n27\n00:09:50,851 --> 00:10:06,877\n但是在教育部說明經費分配比例之後許多地方政府的教育單位又跳腳說中央未來不補助教育經費地方政府需要自籌財源可能會排擠到其他教育的經費但其實就像本席之前一直提醒到部長這邊的\n\n28\n00:10:08,477 --> 00:10:38,057\n有給地方的教育的經費其實就包含在中央統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡面已經就已經包含在裡面教育部所做的補助早就已經包含在統籌分配給縣市政府的款項了所以教育部這邊你們還是要嚴正的澄清中央補助地方經費減少是因為才化法已經把資源分配個地方而不是減少補助\n\n29\n00:10:38,777 --> 00:10:53,864\n那麼應該由地方自治所做的教育的事項不應該再由地方政府這邊來補助應該回給地方政府由地方政府來負擔所以部長您這邊應該如果有面對這樣的質疑你必須做更清楚的說明\n\n30\n00:10:54,444 --> 00:11:14,078\n謝謝委員提醒因為確實以前是要等於說用計劃型或者一些申請然後中央等於教育部才把經費撥到地方那現在就直接因為財務法就直接把它包含就許多我們原來政策在做的一個事情就直接下放到地方譬如說這個2到6歲我們原來編688億那現在就直接\n\n31\n00:11:19,461 --> 00:11:39,652\n這一個88億已經直接到地方裡面另外我們600億還是中央就直接撥到按這一個實際的人這個學生人數跟老師的一些營運的經費也是直接撥到地方就是說我們在這個部分我想未來我們會把它講清楚陳儒部長您剛剛所回答的這些經費直接給了已經給了\n\n32\n00:11:41,693 --> 00:12:01,745\n那麼地方的教育單位他們知不知道錢哪了就是要該做這些權責的區分喔這個部分也希望說你們要跟地方政府再溝通好而且我希望說我們教育部是有一個監督的機制因為這些款項給了之後有沒有被挪用是不是確實的用到教育上這一點其實家長也很關心\n\n33\n00:12:02,345 --> 00:12:21,367\n也跟我們報告確實我們因應財化法當時也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長我們也擔心說因為本來明顯是縣市首長他當然有一定的城市發展的一些重點跟理念的一個在經會上的一些編列那我們也希望說既有的\n\n34\n00:12:21,727 --> 00:12:39,137\n教育部的政策這些經費下放到地方的時候也一定要讓這個縣市首長能夠知道把這個經費能夠何時的用來推動這個地方的一個教育本席就是希望說這些教育經費竟然已經給了地方政府\n\n35\n00:12:39,417 --> 00:13:00,928\n它是可以被落實的被使用在教育項目而不是被地方政府挪用之後又來跟中央又來跟教育部說它沒有經費所以這個部分也希望教育部要留意地方政府是不是有確實的執行所以我說需要一個監督的機制這個部分也請教育部你們再研議然後有相關的方式呢你再跟我辦公室這邊給我一份資料謝謝委員提醒謝謝委員指導好謝謝陳舊寶委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5215\t17250\t謝謝召委請部長沒關係部長你喝一下口喝一下水喝水喝水一下好有請鄭部長委員好\n19654\t46530\t部長好部長這邊想請教針對您在10月7號在議院會回答王逸川委員的詢答的時候部長您是認同應該來禁止使用抖音本期在這邊想要再進一步的請教部長還有我們教育部未來是不是會禁止的部分除了禁止抖音還是其他相關的中國應用的程式都會禁止包含最近很夯的小紅書\n48332\t72689\t因為其實這個家除了我們教育界非常的關心家長也非常的關心還有像人本教育基金會他甚至倡議為了面對小紅書及抖音無孔不入而且為了避免孩子成為AI的工具應該要倡議抗網保孩他的執行長表示說我們不能期待抖音或小紅書自己改變\n73510\t86129\t所以看网保还是公卫的议题需要全社会的共同参与需要全民的投入那我这边想请教部长我们教育部这边会有什么具体的做法\n88287\t115038\t謝謝委員關心我們這個青少年的一個發展有一個更好的一個發展的一個環境確實我們行政院本來就有頒布這個公布這個各機關對危害國家自通性安全產品的限制使用原則那麼在公務設備中小學不僅是大專校院公立中小學的公務設備也都不能使用像這個大陸的廠牌跟軟硬體跟服務所以我們臺灣學術網路\n117964\t131076\t它内的基本上就是在支持师生教学跟学习所以有关抖音跟小文书这些的跟学习内容跟学习相关性比较低的我们也会影响到\n132735\t158038\t兒少的身心發展這些我們事實上在這個他那裡都已經把它排除掉不是啊您這邊的說法我認可就是我們自己本身從自己做起的以公務員的部分以教師的部分我們自己先禁止使用那針對禁止青少年使用的這個部分我們教育部會不會召集教師家長及學生團體共同來研議相關的規範\n159179\t182072\t事實上跟我們報告也感謝我們關係我們對這個網路上的一些使用我們本來就有跟教師團體跟家長團體還有校長團體甚至三大的國內的通信業者我們都有座談也希望怎麼去透過源頭的一些協助來協助家長能夠讓青少年減少去接觸到\n183092\t203575\t所以我們有跟相關的團體來座談收集這些聲音這些意見我想請教部長針對有學生團體他們表示說禁止抖音不如教導如何正確試讀那教育部這邊你們立場跟配套是什麼我想我們是這是雙款旗下的\n204756\t231334\t就是說我們怎麼樣讓這個青少年能夠透過這個試讀辨別裡邊許多的網路它的一個西甲進行或者一些影響不當的一些信息我想這當然教育部這個應該要教我們在這個資訊教育這個部分我們當然也都會有納入的所以教育部這邊會不會持續的來收集包含學生團體的聲音\n233695\t247302\t我想當然學生的幾多不同教育階段學生的一些聲音我們當然一直就教育部的立場來講這個是台灣未來的所有的希望我們當然會也收集學生的一些聲音\n249400\t264102\t我們希望來管制跟禁止抖音這是分成兩個部分來談第一個部分本期之前也非常關心關於短影音的部分我們是憂心短影音會讓孩子越來越沒有耐心進而影響孩子相關的發展及學習\n265003\t286211\t那在這個部分呢本席之前有在總質詢的時候提出當時的教育部長潘部長有承諾說會做教師增能來協助教學現場的教師呢來應付這樣的狀況那本席希望說目前教育部你們應該還是持續有在進行相關增能的工作嘛也會有繼續收集教學現場的狀況希望說我們能夠適度的來調整繼續的來持續這樣子相關增能的內容\n292994\t310859\t讓教學現場的老師可以有更多的後盾我們希望這個一定要繼續保持我們不僅是在老師稱我們有發展這個有許多優秀的老師發展這個相關專業的這些教學網路這個網路教學的許多的一個材料提供我們老師上來參考\n312139\t325533\t那第二個部分呢就我們為什麼希望禁止抖音是因為抖音呢有一個非常不一樣的現象跟其他中國音樂軟體沒有的就是它常常會出現一種不合理性的行為就是所謂的抖音挑戰這個部長您知道嗎\n327455\t343107\t所謂的抖音挑戰就是要青少年做出指定的行為再來標註這個標籤那這個在國外的青少年間可以說是蔚為風潮但是這都是非常危險的例如像昏迷挑戰就是要求加入直播者用神狀物品等\n343487\t362757\t立住自己長時間憋住呼吸直到昏迷來體驗冰死的感受或者是造成多起少年意外死亡的這個地鐵衝浪就是故意在行進中的地鐵的車廂車頂車門外車廂邊緣站立攀爬或是跳躍用這樣危險的動作來勃起他們的關注\n363217\t378763\t另外還有所謂的吞藥挑戰跳水挑戰等等甚至在巴西有一個8歲的女童她模仿這個止汗劑挑戰她對自己身體狂奔止汗劑之後呢造成死亡所以她的父親他就覺得非常的質疑喔說\n379563\t393319\t這些平台充斥著兒童觀眾但他們證實生命的起點在這個平台上卻沒有任何過濾的措施為什麼兒童觀看的影片沒有任何保護的機制這是女童她家長的質疑\n394380\t419420\t抖音的这些种种的危险挑战在国外造成很多青少年失去生命当然这个也还有中国他在后台收集使用者资料的这样的问题所以这已经是不单单是所谓什么文化玻璃心本席认为说为了流量而去做这些毫无意义的挑战青少年如何可以做到克制或是识别到怎样的程度这是我们应该要考量的\n419620\t448841\t我想像这些所谓的昏迷的挑战这些等等的这些本来就是不足取它绝对是违反社会的一个乱言之一那我想这为什么我们看到这个美国川普总统在前一阵子他透过这个贸易的一个他希望把抖音整个能够把由美国把它买下来让它回忆到一个比较正常的一个商业的一个经营的一个模式我想\n449481\t478661\t這都也可以看出網路影響群體我們也要用群體的力量來影響網路回到正軌那禁止抖音或是管制抖音的近期也是都是各國討論的重點那其他國家大部分就是因為國安的問題會禁止公務人員公務機關來下載這些中國的軟體像阿爾巴尼亞它就是因為抖音引起青少年的暴力事件它禁抖音一年所以抖音的危害真的不只是短影音文化思想的灌輸\n479221\t501839\t其實真的我要再次強調這個不只是文化玻璃性的問題這裡面還包含就是我們台灣青少年的人身安全心理健康所以我會一直強調每次有機會跟部長討論的時候我都會提到說我們應該要跟教師團體家長團體學生團體進行溝通研究然後要也很謹慎的做相關的配套的做法\n502239\t530279\t那在这一点呢教育部你们现在目前你们对自己现在做的有什么觉得还要再补足的我想也感谢委员的关心因为确实我们也跟三大的电信业者从开学或者学校的许多的进展我们都有专人包含我们知科师全国有几十个据点都能够提供这一个家长的一些在这方面的一些协助只要家长愿意\n530959\t560242\t我们除了宣传以外也实际在技术上协助家长来做许多的这些手机上的一些等于说一些把它做一些隔离让青少年能够有一个更好的一个使用手机能够有助于他学习但是不妨碍他的生意不能影响到他的一个发展不管是身体上或是心理上那这个部分也请教育部这边要持续的来收集相关的声音持续的来检讨\n560982\t590191\t然后能够做更周全的相关的配套好那接下来本席要请教在上周的财政联席的时候本席有询问过部长关于财劃法的影响在教育经费分配的问题那当时本席希望教育部能够尽速跟各地方政府协调经费如何分配也有提醒教育部应该跟民众说明分配的结果那部长这边您也做到了在周末的时候就迅速的公布明年将有地方政府来负担的相关的经费的项目\n590851\t606877\t但是在教育部說明經費分配比例之後許多地方政府的教育單位又跳腳說中央未來不補助教育經費地方政府需要自籌財源可能會排擠到其他教育的經費但其實就像本席之前一直提醒到部長這邊的\n608477\t638057\t有給地方的教育的經費其實就包含在中央統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡面已經就已經包含在裡面教育部所做的補助早就已經包含在統籌分配給縣市政府的款項了所以教育部這邊你們還是要嚴正的澄清中央補助地方經費減少是因為才化法已經把資源分配個地方而不是減少補助\n638777\t653864\t那麼應該由地方自治所做的教育的事項不應該再由地方政府這邊來補助應該回給地方政府由地方政府來負擔所以部長您這邊應該如果有面對這樣的質疑你必須做更清楚的說明\n654444\t674078\t謝謝委員提醒因為確實以前是要等於說用計劃型或者一些申請然後中央等於教育部才把經費撥到地方那現在就直接因為財務法就直接把它包含就許多我們原來政策在做的一個事情就直接下放到地方譬如說這個2到6歲我們原來編688億那現在就直接\n679461\t699652\t這一個88億已經直接到地方裡面另外我們600億還是中央就直接撥到按這一個實際的人這個學生人數跟老師的一些營運的經費也是直接撥到地方就是說我們在這個部分我想未來我們會把它講清楚陳儒部長您剛剛所回答的這些經費直接給了已經給了\n701693\t721745\t那麼地方的教育單位他們知不知道錢哪了就是要該做這些權責的區分喔這個部分也希望說你們要跟地方政府再溝通好而且我希望說我們教育部是有一個監督的機制因為這些款項給了之後有沒有被挪用是不是確實的用到教育上這一點其實家長也很關心\n722345\t741367\t也跟我們報告確實我們因應財化法當時也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長我們也擔心說因為本來明顯是縣市首長他當然有一定的城市發展的一些重點跟理念的一個在經會上的一些編列那我們也希望說既有的\n741727\t759137\t教育部的政策這些經費下放到地方的時候也一定要讓這個縣市首長能夠知道把這個經費能夠何時的用來推動這個地方的一個教育本席就是希望說這些教育經費竟然已經給了地方政府\n759417\t780928\t它是可以被落實的被使用在教育項目而不是被地方政府挪用之後又來跟中央又來跟教育部說它沒有經費所以這個部分也希望教育部要留意地方政府是不是有確實的執行所以我說需要一個監督的機制這個部分也請教育部你們再研議然後有相關的方式呢你再跟我辦公室這邊給我一份資料謝謝委員提醒謝謝委員指導好 謝謝陳舊寶委員\n","txt":"謝謝召委請部長沒關係部長你喝一下口喝一下水喝水喝水一下好有請鄭部長委員好\n部長好部長這邊想請教針對您在10月7號在議院會回答王逸川委員的詢答的時候部長您是認同應該來禁止使用抖音本期在這邊想要再進一步的請教部長還有我們教育部未來是不是會禁止的部分除了禁止抖音還是其他相關的中國應用的程式都會禁止包含最近很夯的小紅書\n因為其實這個家除了我們教育界非常的關心家長也非常的關心還有像人本教育基金會他甚至倡議為了面對小紅書及抖音無孔不入而且為了避免孩子成為AI的工具應該要倡議抗網保孩他的執行長表示說我們不能期待抖音或小紅書自己改變\n所以看网保还是公卫的议题需要全社会的共同参与需要全民的投入那我这边想请教部长我们教育部这边会有什么具体的做法\n謝謝委員關心我們這個青少年的一個發展有一個更好的一個發展的一個環境確實我們行政院本來就有頒布這個公布這個各機關對危害國家自通性安全產品的限制使用原則那麼在公務設備中小學不僅是大專校院公立中小學的公務設備也都不能使用像這個大陸的廠牌跟軟硬體跟服務所以我們臺灣學術網路\n它内的基本上就是在支持师生教学跟学习所以有关抖音跟小文书这些的跟学习内容跟学习相关性比较低的我们也会影响到\n兒少的身心發展這些我們事實上在這個他那裡都已經把它排除掉不是啊您這邊的說法我認可就是我們自己本身從自己做起的以公務員的部分以教師的部分我們自己先禁止使用那針對禁止青少年使用的這個部分我們教育部會不會召集教師家長及學生團體共同來研議相關的規範\n事實上跟我們報告也感謝我們關係我們對這個網路上的一些使用我們本來就有跟教師團體跟家長團體還有校長團體甚至三大的國內的通信業者我們都有座談也希望怎麼去透過源頭的一些協助來協助家長能夠讓青少年減少去接觸到\n所以我們有跟相關的團體來座談收集這些聲音這些意見我想請教部長針對有學生團體他們表示說禁止抖音不如教導如何正確試讀那教育部這邊你們立場跟配套是什麼我想我們是這是雙款旗下的\n就是說我們怎麼樣讓這個青少年能夠透過這個試讀辨別裡邊許多的網路它的一個西甲進行或者一些影響不當的一些信息我想這當然教育部這個應該要教我們在這個資訊教育這個部分我們當然也都會有納入的所以教育部這邊會不會持續的來收集包含學生團體的聲音\n我想當然學生的幾多不同教育階段學生的一些聲音我們當然一直就教育部的立場來講這個是台灣未來的所有的希望我們當然會也收集學生的一些聲音\n我們希望來管制跟禁止抖音這是分成兩個部分來談第一個部分本期之前也非常關心關於短影音的部分我們是憂心短影音會讓孩子越來越沒有耐心進而影響孩子相關的發展及學習\n那在這個部分呢本席之前有在總質詢的時候提出當時的教育部長潘部長有承諾說會做教師增能來協助教學現場的教師呢來應付這樣的狀況那本席希望說目前教育部你們應該還是持續有在進行相關增能的工作嘛也會有繼續收集教學現場的狀況希望說我們能夠適度的來調整繼續的來持續這樣子相關增能的內容\n讓教學現場的老師可以有更多的後盾我們希望這個一定要繼續保持我們不僅是在老師稱我們有發展這個有許多優秀的老師發展這個相關專業的這些教學網路這個網路教學的許多的一個材料提供我們老師上來參考\n那第二個部分呢就我們為什麼希望禁止抖音是因為抖音呢有一個非常不一樣的現象跟其他中國音樂軟體沒有的就是它常常會出現一種不合理性的行為就是所謂的抖音挑戰這個部長您知道嗎\n所謂的抖音挑戰就是要青少年做出指定的行為再來標註這個標籤那這個在國外的青少年間可以說是蔚為風潮但是這都是非常危險的例如像昏迷挑戰就是要求加入直播者用神狀物品等\n立住自己長時間憋住呼吸直到昏迷來體驗冰死的感受或者是造成多起少年意外死亡的這個地鐵衝浪就是故意在行進中的地鐵的車廂車頂車門外車廂邊緣站立攀爬或是跳躍用這樣危險的動作來勃起他們的關注\n另外還有所謂的吞藥挑戰跳水挑戰等等甚至在巴西有一個8歲的女童她模仿這個止汗劑挑戰她對自己身體狂奔止汗劑之後呢造成死亡所以她的父親他就覺得非常的質疑喔說\n這些平台充斥著兒童觀眾但他們證實生命的起點在這個平台上卻沒有任何過濾的措施為什麼兒童觀看的影片沒有任何保護的機制這是女童她家長的質疑\n抖音的这些种种的危险挑战在国外造成很多青少年失去生命当然这个也还有中国他在后台收集使用者资料的这样的问题所以这已经是不单单是所谓什么文化玻璃心本席认为说为了流量而去做这些毫无意义的挑战青少年如何可以做到克制或是识别到怎样的程度这是我们应该要考量的\n我想像这些所谓的昏迷的挑战这些等等的这些本来就是不足取它绝对是违反社会的一个乱言之一那我想这为什么我们看到这个美国川普总统在前一阵子他透过这个贸易的一个他希望把抖音整个能够把由美国把它买下来让它回忆到一个比较正常的一个商业的一个经营的一个模式我想\n這都也可以看出網路影響群體我們也要用群體的力量來影響網路回到正軌那禁止抖音或是管制抖音的近期也是都是各國討論的重點那其他國家大部分就是因為國安的問題會禁止公務人員公務機關來下載這些中國的軟體像阿爾巴尼亞它就是因為抖音引起青少年的暴力事件它禁抖音一年所以抖音的危害真的不只是短影音文化思想的灌輸\n其實真的我要再次強調這個不只是文化玻璃性的問題這裡面還包含就是我們台灣青少年的人身安全心理健康所以我會一直強調每次有機會跟部長討論的時候我都會提到說我們應該要跟教師團體家長團體學生團體進行溝通研究然後要也很謹慎的做相關的配套的做法\n那在这一点呢教育部你们现在目前你们对自己现在做的有什么觉得还要再补足的我想也感谢委员的关心因为确实我们也跟三大的电信业者从开学或者学校的许多的进展我们都有专人包含我们知科师全国有几十个据点都能够提供这一个家长的一些在这方面的一些协助只要家长愿意\n我们除了宣传以外也实际在技术上协助家长来做许多的这些手机上的一些等于说一些把它做一些隔离让青少年能够有一个更好的一个使用手机能够有助于他学习但是不妨碍他的生意不能影响到他的一个发展不管是身体上或是心理上那这个部分也请教育部这边要持续的来收集相关的声音持续的来检讨\n然后能够做更周全的相关的配套好那接下来本席要请教在上周的财政联席的时候本席有询问过部长关于财劃法的影响在教育经费分配的问题那当时本席希望教育部能够尽速跟各地方政府协调经费如何分配也有提醒教育部应该跟民众说明分配的结果那部长这边您也做到了在周末的时候就迅速的公布明年将有地方政府来负担的相关的经费的项目\n但是在教育部說明經費分配比例之後許多地方政府的教育單位又跳腳說中央未來不補助教育經費地方政府需要自籌財源可能會排擠到其他教育的經費但其實就像本席之前一直提醒到部長這邊的\n有給地方的教育的經費其實就包含在中央統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡面已經就已經包含在裡面教育部所做的補助早就已經包含在統籌分配給縣市政府的款項了所以教育部這邊你們還是要嚴正的澄清中央補助地方經費減少是因為才化法已經把資源分配個地方而不是減少補助\n那麼應該由地方自治所做的教育的事項不應該再由地方政府這邊來補助應該回給地方政府由地方政府來負擔所以部長您這邊應該如果有面對這樣的質疑你必須做更清楚的說明\n謝謝委員提醒因為確實以前是要等於說用計劃型或者一些申請然後中央等於教育部才把經費撥到地方那現在就直接因為財務法就直接把它包含就許多我們原來政策在做的一個事情就直接下放到地方譬如說這個2到6歲我們原來編688億那現在就直接\n這一個88億已經直接到地方裡面另外我們600億還是中央就直接撥到按這一個實際的人這個學生人數跟老師的一些營運的經費也是直接撥到地方就是說我們在這個部分我想未來我們會把它講清楚陳儒部長您剛剛所回答的這些經費直接給了已經給了\n那麼地方的教育單位他們知不知道錢哪了就是要該做這些權責的區分喔這個部分也希望說你們要跟地方政府再溝通好而且我希望說我們教育部是有一個監督的機制因為這些款項給了之後有沒有被挪用是不是確實的用到教育上這一點其實家長也很關心\n也跟我們報告確實我們因應財化法當時也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長我們也擔心說因為本來明顯是縣市首長他當然有一定的城市發展的一些重點跟理念的一個在經會上的一些編列那我們也希望說既有的\n教育部的政策這些經費下放到地方的時候也一定要讓這個縣市首長能夠知道把這個經費能夠何時的用來推動這個地方的一個教育本席就是希望說這些教育經費竟然已經給了地方政府\n它是可以被落實的被使用在教育項目而不是被地方政府挪用之後又來跟中央又來跟教育部說它沒有經費所以這個部分也希望教育部要留意地方政府是不是有確實的執行所以我說需要一個監督的機制這個部分也請教育部你們再研議然後有相關的方式呢你再跟我辦公室這邊給我一份資料謝謝委員提醒謝謝委員指導好 謝謝陳舊寶委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.215 --> 00:17.250\n謝謝召委請部長沒關係部長你喝一下口喝一下水喝水喝水一下好有請鄭部長委員好\n\n00:19.654 --> 00:46.530\n部長好部長這邊想請教針對您在10月7號在議院會回答王逸川委員的詢答的時候部長您是認同應該來禁止使用抖音本期在這邊想要再進一步的請教部長還有我們教育部未來是不是會禁止的部分除了禁止抖音還是其他相關的中國應用的程式都會禁止包含最近很夯的小紅書\n\n00:48.332 --> 01:12.689\n因為其實這個家除了我們教育界非常的關心家長也非常的關心還有像人本教育基金會他甚至倡議為了面對小紅書及抖音無孔不入而且為了避免孩子成為AI的工具應該要倡議抗網保孩他的執行長表示說我們不能期待抖音或小紅書自己改變\n\n01:13.510 --> 01:26.129\n所以看网保还是公卫的议题需要全社会的共同参与需要全民的投入那我这边想请教部长我们教育部这边会有什么具体的做法\n\n01:28.287 --> 01:55.038\n謝謝委員關心我們這個青少年的一個發展有一個更好的一個發展的一個環境確實我們行政院本來就有頒布這個公布這個各機關對危害國家自通性安全產品的限制使用原則那麼在公務設備中小學不僅是大專校院公立中小學的公務設備也都不能使用像這個大陸的廠牌跟軟硬體跟服務所以我們臺灣學術網路\n\n01:57.964 --> 02:11.076\n它内的基本上就是在支持师生教学跟学习所以有关抖音跟小文书这些的跟学习内容跟学习相关性比较低的我们也会影响到\n\n02:12.735 --> 02:38.038\n兒少的身心發展這些我們事實上在這個他那裡都已經把它排除掉不是啊您這邊的說法我認可就是我們自己本身從自己做起的以公務員的部分以教師的部分我們自己先禁止使用那針對禁止青少年使用的這個部分我們教育部會不會召集教師家長及學生團體共同來研議相關的規範\n\n02:39.179 --> 03:02.072\n事實上跟我們報告也感謝我們關係我們對這個網路上的一些使用我們本來就有跟教師團體跟家長團體還有校長團體甚至三大的國內的通信業者我們都有座談也希望怎麼去透過源頭的一些協助來協助家長能夠讓青少年減少去接觸到\n\n03:03.092 --> 03:23.575\n所以我們有跟相關的團體來座談收集這些聲音這些意見我想請教部長針對有學生團體他們表示說禁止抖音不如教導如何正確試讀那教育部這邊你們立場跟配套是什麼我想我們是這是雙款旗下的\n\n03:24.756 --> 03:51.334\n就是說我們怎麼樣讓這個青少年能夠透過這個試讀辨別裡邊許多的網路它的一個西甲進行或者一些影響不當的一些信息我想這當然教育部這個應該要教我們在這個資訊教育這個部分我們當然也都會有納入的所以教育部這邊會不會持續的來收集包含學生團體的聲音\n\n03:53.695 --> 04:07.302\n我想當然學生的幾多不同教育階段學生的一些聲音我們當然一直就教育部的立場來講這個是台灣未來的所有的希望我們當然會也收集學生的一些聲音\n\n04:09.400 --> 04:24.102\n我們希望來管制跟禁止抖音這是分成兩個部分來談第一個部分本期之前也非常關心關於短影音的部分我們是憂心短影音會讓孩子越來越沒有耐心進而影響孩子相關的發展及學習\n\n04:25.003 --> 04:46.211\n那在這個部分呢本席之前有在總質詢的時候提出當時的教育部長潘部長有承諾說會做教師增能來協助教學現場的教師呢來應付這樣的狀況那本席希望說目前教育部你們應該還是持續有在進行相關增能的工作嘛也會有繼續收集教學現場的狀況希望說我們能夠適度的來調整繼續的來持續這樣子相關增能的內容\n\n04:52.994 --> 05:10.859\n讓教學現場的老師可以有更多的後盾我們希望這個一定要繼續保持我們不僅是在老師稱我們有發展這個有許多優秀的老師發展這個相關專業的這些教學網路這個網路教學的許多的一個材料提供我們老師上來參考\n\n05:12.139 --> 05:25.533\n那第二個部分呢就我們為什麼希望禁止抖音是因為抖音呢有一個非常不一樣的現象跟其他中國音樂軟體沒有的就是它常常會出現一種不合理性的行為就是所謂的抖音挑戰這個部長您知道嗎\n\n05:27.455 --> 05:43.107\n所謂的抖音挑戰就是要青少年做出指定的行為再來標註這個標籤那這個在國外的青少年間可以說是蔚為風潮但是這都是非常危險的例如像昏迷挑戰就是要求加入直播者用神狀物品等\n\n05:43.487 --> 06:02.757\n立住自己長時間憋住呼吸直到昏迷來體驗冰死的感受或者是造成多起少年意外死亡的這個地鐵衝浪就是故意在行進中的地鐵的車廂車頂車門外車廂邊緣站立攀爬或是跳躍用這樣危險的動作來勃起他們的關注\n\n06:03.217 --> 06:18.763\n另外還有所謂的吞藥挑戰跳水挑戰等等甚至在巴西有一個8歲的女童她模仿這個止汗劑挑戰她對自己身體狂奔止汗劑之後呢造成死亡所以她的父親他就覺得非常的質疑喔說\n\n06:19.563 --> 06:33.319\n這些平台充斥著兒童觀眾但他們證實生命的起點在這個平台上卻沒有任何過濾的措施為什麼兒童觀看的影片沒有任何保護的機制這是女童她家長的質疑\n\n06:34.380 --> 06:59.420\n抖音的这些种种的危险挑战在国外造成很多青少年失去生命当然这个也还有中国他在后台收集使用者资料的这样的问题所以这已经是不单单是所谓什么文化玻璃心本席认为说为了流量而去做这些毫无意义的挑战青少年如何可以做到克制或是识别到怎样的程度这是我们应该要考量的\n\n06:59.620 --> 07:28.841\n我想像这些所谓的昏迷的挑战这些等等的这些本来就是不足取它绝对是违反社会的一个乱言之一那我想这为什么我们看到这个美国川普总统在前一阵子他透过这个贸易的一个他希望把抖音整个能够把由美国把它买下来让它回忆到一个比较正常的一个商业的一个经营的一个模式我想\n\n07:29.481 --> 07:58.661\n這都也可以看出網路影響群體我們也要用群體的力量來影響網路回到正軌那禁止抖音或是管制抖音的近期也是都是各國討論的重點那其他國家大部分就是因為國安的問題會禁止公務人員公務機關來下載這些中國的軟體像阿爾巴尼亞它就是因為抖音引起青少年的暴力事件它禁抖音一年所以抖音的危害真的不只是短影音文化思想的灌輸\n\n07:59.221 --> 08:21.839\n其實真的我要再次強調這個不只是文化玻璃性的問題這裡面還包含就是我們台灣青少年的人身安全心理健康所以我會一直強調每次有機會跟部長討論的時候我都會提到說我們應該要跟教師團體家長團體學生團體進行溝通研究然後要也很謹慎的做相關的配套的做法\n\n08:22.239 --> 08:50.279\n那在这一点呢教育部你们现在目前你们对自己现在做的有什么觉得还要再补足的我想也感谢委员的关心因为确实我们也跟三大的电信业者从开学或者学校的许多的进展我们都有专人包含我们知科师全国有几十个据点都能够提供这一个家长的一些在这方面的一些协助只要家长愿意\n\n08:50.959 --> 09:20.242\n我们除了宣传以外也实际在技术上协助家长来做许多的这些手机上的一些等于说一些把它做一些隔离让青少年能够有一个更好的一个使用手机能够有助于他学习但是不妨碍他的生意不能影响到他的一个发展不管是身体上或是心理上那这个部分也请教育部这边要持续的来收集相关的声音持续的来检讨\n\n09:20.982 --> 09:50.191\n然后能够做更周全的相关的配套好那接下来本席要请教在上周的财政联席的时候本席有询问过部长关于财劃法的影响在教育经费分配的问题那当时本席希望教育部能够尽速跟各地方政府协调经费如何分配也有提醒教育部应该跟民众说明分配的结果那部长这边您也做到了在周末的时候就迅速的公布明年将有地方政府来负担的相关的经费的项目\n\n09:50.851 --> 10:06.877\n但是在教育部說明經費分配比例之後許多地方政府的教育單位又跳腳說中央未來不補助教育經費地方政府需要自籌財源可能會排擠到其他教育的經費但其實就像本席之前一直提醒到部長這邊的\n\n10:08.477 --> 10:38.057\n有給地方的教育的經費其實就包含在中央統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡面已經就已經包含在裡面教育部所做的補助早就已經包含在統籌分配給縣市政府的款項了所以教育部這邊你們還是要嚴正的澄清中央補助地方經費減少是因為才化法已經把資源分配個地方而不是減少補助\n\n10:38.777 --> 10:53.864\n那麼應該由地方自治所做的教育的事項不應該再由地方政府這邊來補助應該回給地方政府由地方政府來負擔所以部長您這邊應該如果有面對這樣的質疑你必須做更清楚的說明\n\n10:54.444 --> 11:14.078\n謝謝委員提醒因為確實以前是要等於說用計劃型或者一些申請然後中央等於教育部才把經費撥到地方那現在就直接因為財務法就直接把它包含就許多我們原來政策在做的一個事情就直接下放到地方譬如說這個2到6歲我們原來編688億那現在就直接\n\n11:19.461 --> 11:39.652\n這一個88億已經直接到地方裡面另外我們600億還是中央就直接撥到按這一個實際的人這個學生人數跟老師的一些營運的經費也是直接撥到地方就是說我們在這個部分我想未來我們會把它講清楚陳儒部長您剛剛所回答的這些經費直接給了已經給了\n\n11:41.693 --> 12:01.745\n那麼地方的教育單位他們知不知道錢哪了就是要該做這些權責的區分喔這個部分也希望說你們要跟地方政府再溝通好而且我希望說我們教育部是有一個監督的機制因為這些款項給了之後有沒有被挪用是不是確實的用到教育上這一點其實家長也很關心\n\n12:02.345 --> 12:21.367\n也跟我們報告確實我們因應財化法當時也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長我們也擔心說因為本來明顯是縣市首長他當然有一定的城市發展的一些重點跟理念的一個在經會上的一些編列那我們也希望說既有的\n\n12:21.727 --> 12:39.137\n教育部的政策這些經費下放到地方的時候也一定要讓這個縣市首長能夠知道把這個經費能夠何時的用來推動這個地方的一個教育本席就是希望說這些教育經費竟然已經給了地方政府\n\n12:39.417 --> 13:00.928\n它是可以被落實的被使用在教育項目而不是被地方政府挪用之後又來跟中央又來跟教育部說它沒有經費所以這個部分也希望教育部要留意地方政府是不是有確實的執行所以我說需要一個監督的機制這個部分也請教育部你們再研議然後有相關的方式呢你再跟我辦公室這邊給我一份資料謝謝委員提醒謝謝委員指導好謝謝陳舊寶委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.215,"end":17.25,"text":"謝謝召委請部長沒關係部長你喝一下口喝一下水喝水喝水一下好有請鄭部長委員好"},{"start":19.654,"end":46.53,"text":"部長好部長這邊想請教針對您在10月7號在議院會回答王逸川委員的詢答的時候部長您是認同應該來禁止使用抖音本期在這邊想要再進一步的請教部長還有我們教育部未來是不是會禁止的部分除了禁止抖音還是其他相關的中國應用的程式都會禁止包含最近很夯的小紅書"},{"start":48.332,"end":72.689,"text":"因為其實這個家除了我們教育界非常的關心家長也非常的關心還有像人本教育基金會他甚至倡議為了面對小紅書及抖音無孔不入而且為了避免孩子成為AI的工具應該要倡議抗網保孩他的執行長表示說我們不能期待抖音或小紅書自己改變"},{"start":73.51,"end":86.129,"text":"所以看网保还是公卫的议题需要全社会的共同参与需要全民的投入那我这边想请教部长我们教育部这边会有什么具体的做法"},{"start":88.287,"end":115.038,"text":"謝謝委員關心我們這個青少年的一個發展有一個更好的一個發展的一個環境確實我們行政院本來就有頒布這個公布這個各機關對危害國家自通性安全產品的限制使用原則那麼在公務設備中小學不僅是大專校院公立中小學的公務設備也都不能使用像這個大陸的廠牌跟軟硬體跟服務所以我們臺灣學術網路"},{"start":117.964,"end":131.076,"text":"它内的基本上就是在支持师生教学跟学习所以有关抖音跟小文书这些的跟学习内容跟学习相关性比较低的我们也会影响到"},{"start":132.735,"end":158.038,"text":"兒少的身心發展這些我們事實上在這個他那裡都已經把它排除掉不是啊您這邊的說法我認可就是我們自己本身從自己做起的以公務員的部分以教師的部分我們自己先禁止使用那針對禁止青少年使用的這個部分我們教育部會不會召集教師家長及學生團體共同來研議相關的規範"},{"start":159.179,"end":182.072,"text":"事實上跟我們報告也感謝我們關係我們對這個網路上的一些使用我們本來就有跟教師團體跟家長團體還有校長團體甚至三大的國內的通信業者我們都有座談也希望怎麼去透過源頭的一些協助來協助家長能夠讓青少年減少去接觸到"},{"start":183.092,"end":203.575,"text":"所以我們有跟相關的團體來座談收集這些聲音這些意見我想請教部長針對有學生團體他們表示說禁止抖音不如教導如何正確試讀那教育部這邊你們立場跟配套是什麼我想我們是這是雙款旗下的"},{"start":204.756,"end":231.334,"text":"就是說我們怎麼樣讓這個青少年能夠透過這個試讀辨別裡邊許多的網路它的一個西甲進行或者一些影響不當的一些信息我想這當然教育部這個應該要教我們在這個資訊教育這個部分我們當然也都會有納入的所以教育部這邊會不會持續的來收集包含學生團體的聲音"},{"start":233.695,"end":247.302,"text":"我想當然學生的幾多不同教育階段學生的一些聲音我們當然一直就教育部的立場來講這個是台灣未來的所有的希望我們當然會也收集學生的一些聲音"},{"start":249.4,"end":264.102,"text":"我們希望來管制跟禁止抖音這是分成兩個部分來談第一個部分本期之前也非常關心關於短影音的部分我們是憂心短影音會讓孩子越來越沒有耐心進而影響孩子相關的發展及學習"},{"start":265.003,"end":286.211,"text":"那在這個部分呢本席之前有在總質詢的時候提出當時的教育部長潘部長有承諾說會做教師增能來協助教學現場的教師呢來應付這樣的狀況那本席希望說目前教育部你們應該還是持續有在進行相關增能的工作嘛也會有繼續收集教學現場的狀況希望說我們能夠適度的來調整繼續的來持續這樣子相關增能的內容"},{"start":292.994,"end":310.859,"text":"讓教學現場的老師可以有更多的後盾我們希望這個一定要繼續保持我們不僅是在老師稱我們有發展這個有許多優秀的老師發展這個相關專業的這些教學網路這個網路教學的許多的一個材料提供我們老師上來參考"},{"start":312.139,"end":325.533,"text":"那第二個部分呢就我們為什麼希望禁止抖音是因為抖音呢有一個非常不一樣的現象跟其他中國音樂軟體沒有的就是它常常會出現一種不合理性的行為就是所謂的抖音挑戰這個部長您知道嗎"},{"start":327.455,"end":343.107,"text":"所謂的抖音挑戰就是要青少年做出指定的行為再來標註這個標籤那這個在國外的青少年間可以說是蔚為風潮但是這都是非常危險的例如像昏迷挑戰就是要求加入直播者用神狀物品等"},{"start":343.487,"end":362.757,"text":"立住自己長時間憋住呼吸直到昏迷來體驗冰死的感受或者是造成多起少年意外死亡的這個地鐵衝浪就是故意在行進中的地鐵的車廂車頂車門外車廂邊緣站立攀爬或是跳躍用這樣危險的動作來勃起他們的關注"},{"start":363.217,"end":378.763,"text":"另外還有所謂的吞藥挑戰跳水挑戰等等甚至在巴西有一個8歲的女童她模仿這個止汗劑挑戰她對自己身體狂奔止汗劑之後呢造成死亡所以她的父親他就覺得非常的質疑喔說"},{"start":379.563,"end":393.319,"text":"這些平台充斥著兒童觀眾但他們證實生命的起點在這個平台上卻沒有任何過濾的措施為什麼兒童觀看的影片沒有任何保護的機制這是女童她家長的質疑"},{"start":394.38,"end":419.42,"text":"抖音的这些种种的危险挑战在国外造成很多青少年失去生命当然这个也还有中国他在后台收集使用者资料的这样的问题所以这已经是不单单是所谓什么文化玻璃心本席认为说为了流量而去做这些毫无意义的挑战青少年如何可以做到克制或是识别到怎样的程度这是我们应该要考量的"},{"start":419.62,"end":448.841,"text":"我想像这些所谓的昏迷的挑战这些等等的这些本来就是不足取它绝对是违反社会的一个乱言之一那我想这为什么我们看到这个美国川普总统在前一阵子他透过这个贸易的一个他希望把抖音整个能够把由美国把它买下来让它回忆到一个比较正常的一个商业的一个经营的一个模式我想"},{"start":449.481,"end":478.661,"text":"這都也可以看出網路影響群體我們也要用群體的力量來影響網路回到正軌那禁止抖音或是管制抖音的近期也是都是各國討論的重點那其他國家大部分就是因為國安的問題會禁止公務人員公務機關來下載這些中國的軟體像阿爾巴尼亞它就是因為抖音引起青少年的暴力事件它禁抖音一年所以抖音的危害真的不只是短影音文化思想的灌輸"},{"start":479.221,"end":501.839,"text":"其實真的我要再次強調這個不只是文化玻璃性的問題這裡面還包含就是我們台灣青少年的人身安全心理健康所以我會一直強調每次有機會跟部長討論的時候我都會提到說我們應該要跟教師團體家長團體學生團體進行溝通研究然後要也很謹慎的做相關的配套的做法"},{"start":502.239,"end":530.279,"text":"那在这一点呢教育部你们现在目前你们对自己现在做的有什么觉得还要再补足的我想也感谢委员的关心因为确实我们也跟三大的电信业者从开学或者学校的许多的进展我们都有专人包含我们知科师全国有几十个据点都能够提供这一个家长的一些在这方面的一些协助只要家长愿意"},{"start":530.959,"end":560.242,"text":"我们除了宣传以外也实际在技术上协助家长来做许多的这些手机上的一些等于说一些把它做一些隔离让青少年能够有一个更好的一个使用手机能够有助于他学习但是不妨碍他的生意不能影响到他的一个发展不管是身体上或是心理上那这个部分也请教育部这边要持续的来收集相关的声音持续的来检讨"},{"start":560.982,"end":590.191,"text":"然后能够做更周全的相关的配套好那接下来本席要请教在上周的财政联席的时候本席有询问过部长关于财劃法的影响在教育经费分配的问题那当时本席希望教育部能够尽速跟各地方政府协调经费如何分配也有提醒教育部应该跟民众说明分配的结果那部长这边您也做到了在周末的时候就迅速的公布明年将有地方政府来负担的相关的经费的项目"},{"start":590.851,"end":606.877,"text":"但是在教育部說明經費分配比例之後許多地方政府的教育單位又跳腳說中央未來不補助教育經費地方政府需要自籌財源可能會排擠到其他教育的經費但其實就像本席之前一直提醒到部長這邊的"},{"start":608.477,"end":638.057,"text":"有給地方的教育的經費其實就包含在中央統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡面已經就已經包含在裡面教育部所做的補助早就已經包含在統籌分配給縣市政府的款項了所以教育部這邊你們還是要嚴正的澄清中央補助地方經費減少是因為才化法已經把資源分配個地方而不是減少補助"},{"start":638.777,"end":653.864,"text":"那麼應該由地方自治所做的教育的事項不應該再由地方政府這邊來補助應該回給地方政府由地方政府來負擔所以部長您這邊應該如果有面對這樣的質疑你必須做更清楚的說明"},{"start":654.444,"end":674.078,"text":"謝謝委員提醒因為確實以前是要等於說用計劃型或者一些申請然後中央等於教育部才把經費撥到地方那現在就直接因為財務法就直接把它包含就許多我們原來政策在做的一個事情就直接下放到地方譬如說這個2到6歲我們原來編688億那現在就直接"},{"start":679.461,"end":699.652,"text":"這一個88億已經直接到地方裡面另外我們600億還是中央就直接撥到按這一個實際的人這個學生人數跟老師的一些營運的經費也是直接撥到地方就是說我們在這個部分我想未來我們會把它講清楚陳儒部長您剛剛所回答的這些經費直接給了已經給了"},{"start":701.693,"end":721.745,"text":"那麼地方的教育單位他們知不知道錢哪了就是要該做這些權責的區分喔這個部分也希望說你們要跟地方政府再溝通好而且我希望說我們教育部是有一個監督的機制因為這些款項給了之後有沒有被挪用是不是確實的用到教育上這一點其實家長也很關心"},{"start":722.345,"end":741.367,"text":"也跟我們報告確實我們因應財化法當時也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長我們也擔心說因為本來明顯是縣市首長他當然有一定的城市發展的一些重點跟理念的一個在經會上的一些編列那我們也希望說既有的"},{"start":741.727,"end":759.137,"text":"教育部的政策這些經費下放到地方的時候也一定要讓這個縣市首長能夠知道把這個經費能夠何時的用來推動這個地方的一個教育本席就是希望說這些教育經費竟然已經給了地方政府"},{"start":759.417,"end":780.928,"text":"它是可以被落實的被使用在教育項目而不是被地方政府挪用之後又來跟中央又來跟教育部說它沒有經費所以這個部分也希望教育部要留意地方政府是不是有確實的執行所以我說需要一個監督的機制這個部分也請教育部你們再研議然後有相關的方式呢你再跟我辦公室這邊給我一份資料謝謝委員提醒謝謝委員指導好 謝謝陳舊寶委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":737,"blocks":[["陳委員秀寳：（11時54分）謝謝召委，請部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長好。針對您在10月7日的院會回答王義川委員質詢的時候，認同應該禁止使用抖音，本席在這邊想要再進一步請教，部長還有我們教育部未來會禁止的部分，除了抖音外，其他相關的中國應用程式都會禁止，包含最近很夯的小紅書嗎？因為除了我們教育界對此非常的關心，家長也非常的關心，還有像人本教育基金會甚至倡議，為了面對小紅書及抖音的無孔不入，為了避免孩子成為AI的工具，應該要倡議「抗網保孩」。基金會的執行長表示，我們不能期待抖音或小紅書自己改變，所以抗網保孩是公衛的議題，需要全社會共同參與，需要全民的投入。請教部長，我們教育部會有什麼具體的作法？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員關心我們青少年有一個更好的發展環境，確實，我們行政院本來就有公布「各機關對危害國家資通安全產品限制使用原則」，在公務設備，不僅是大專校院，公立中小學的公務設備也都不能使用大陸的廠牌跟軟硬體跟服務。我們臺灣的學術網路TANet基本上就是在支持師生教學跟學習，所以有關抖音跟小紅書這些內容跟學習相關性比較低的，也會影響到兒少的身心發展，這些事實上TANet在112年都已經把它排除掉了。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長的說法我認可，就是我們從自己本身做起，於公務員的部分、於教師的部分，我們自己先禁止使用。那針對禁止青少年使用這個部分，我們教育部會不會召集教師、家長、學生團體，共同研議相關的規範？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告也感謝委員關心，事實上對網路上的一些使用，我們本來就跟教師團體、家長團體還有校長團體甚至三大國內通信業者都有座談，也希望設法透過源頭的一些協助，協助家長能夠讓青少年減少接觸到許多不當或者不利的網路內容。"],["陳委員秀寳：所以我們有跟相關團體座談，蒐集這些聲音和意見。那我想請教部長，針對有學生團體表示禁止抖音不如教導如何正確識讀，教育部這邊的立場跟配套是什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們是雙管齊下的，就是我們怎麼樣讓青少年能夠透過這個識讀，辨別網路裡邊許多的虛假信息或是影響不當的一些訊息，我想這些教育部當然應該要教，在資訊教育這個部分當然也都會納入。"],["陳委員秀寳：教育部會不會持續蒐集包含學生團體的聲音？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想就教育部的立場來講，這個是臺灣未來所有的希望，對許多不同教育階段學生的一些聲音，我們當然會蒐集。"],["陳委員秀寳：部長，我們希望管制跟禁止抖音，這要分成兩個部分來談，第一個、本席之前也非常關心短影音的部分，我們是憂心短影音會讓孩子愈來愈沒有耐心，進而影響孩子相關的發展及學習。在這個部分，本席之前有在總質詢的時候提出，當時的教育部潘部長有承諾會做教師增能，協助教學現場的教師應付這樣的狀況。本席希望教育部目前還是持續進行相關增能的工作，也繼續蒐集教學現場的狀況。希望我們能夠適度的調整，持續這樣子相關增能的內容，讓教學現場的老師可以有更多的後盾，我們希望這個一定要繼續保持，繼續做。"],["鄭部長英耀：不僅是老師這邊，我們還有許多優秀的老師發展相關專業網路教學的許多材料，提供我們老師參考。"],["陳委員秀寳：第二個、我們為什麼希望禁止抖音？是因為抖音有一個非常不一樣的、其他中國應用軟體沒有的現象，就是它常常會出現一種不合理性的行為，亦即所謂的「抖音挑戰」。這個部長知道嗎？所謂的「抖音挑戰」就是要青少年做出指定的行為再來標註標籤，這個在國外的青少年間可以說是蔚為風潮，但是那些都是非常危險的行為，例如像「昏迷挑戰」，就是要求加入直播者用繩狀物品勒住自己，長時間憋住呼吸直到昏迷，以體驗瀕死的感受；或者是造成多起少年意外死亡的「地鐵衝浪」，就是故意在行進中的地鐵車廂的車頂、車門外、車廂邊緣站立、攀爬或是跳躍，用這樣危險的動作來博取他人的關注；又如「吞藥挑戰」、「跳水挑戰」等等，甚至在巴西有一個8歲的女童，她模仿「止汗劑挑戰」，對自己的身體狂噴止汗劑之後導致死亡，所以她的父親就覺得非常的質疑，說這些平台充斥著兒童觀眾，他們正值生命的起點，這個平台上卻沒有任何過濾的措施，為什麼兒童觀看的影片沒有任何保護的機制？這是這個女童家長的質疑。抖音這些種種的危險挑戰，在國外造成很多青少年失去生命。當然這個還有中國在後台蒐集使用者資料這樣的問題，所以這已經不單單是所謂文化玻璃心。本席認為對於這種為了流量而去做這些毫無意義的挑戰，青少年如何可以做到克制或是識別到怎樣的程度，這是我們應該要考量的。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想所謂「昏迷挑戰」等等，這些本來就是不足取的，絕對是違反社會的亂源之一，我想這也是為什麼我們看到美國川普總統在前一陣子透過貿易行為，希望能把抖音整個由美國買下來，讓它回復到一個比較正常的商業經營模式。我想這也都可以……"],["陳委員秀寳：網路影響群體，我們也要用群體的力量來影響網路回到正軌。禁止抖音或是管制抖音近期也是各國討論的重點，其他國家大部分是因為國安的問題，會禁止公務人員、公務機關下載這些中國的軟體。像阿爾巴尼亞就是因為抖音引起青少年的暴力事件，因此禁抖音一年。所以抖音的危害真的不止是短影音文化思想的灌輸，我要再次強調，這個不止是文化玻璃心的問題喔！裡面還包含我們臺灣青少年的人身安全、心理健康，所以我會一直強調，每次有機會跟部長討論的時候，我都會提到我們應該要跟教師團體、家長團體、學生團體進行溝通研究，然後要很謹慎的做出相關的配套作法。在這一點上，教育部對你們自己現在做的覺得有什麼還要再補足的？"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的關心，確實我們也跟三大電信業者，從開學或者學校的許多進程，我們都有專人包含我們資科司，全國有幾十個據點都能夠提供家長這方面的一些協助，只要家長願意，我們除了宣傳外，也實際在技術上協助家長，比如在手機上做一些隔離，讓青少年使用手機能夠有一個更好的、有助於他學習但是不妨礙他身心上的發展。"],["陳委員秀寳：不管是身體上或是心理上，這個部分也請教育部持續蒐集相關的聲音，持續檢討，然後能夠做更周全的相關配套。","接下來本席要請教的是在上週與財政聯席會議中，本席有請問過部長關於財劃法在教育經費分配問題上的影響，當時本席希望教育部能夠儘速跟各地方政府協調經費如何分配，也有提醒教育部應該跟民眾說明分配的結果。部長也做到了，在週末的時候就迅速公布明年將由地方政府負擔的相關經費項目。但是在教育部說明經費分配比例之後，許多地方政府的教育單位又跳腳，說中央未來不補助教育經費，地方政府需要自籌財源，可能會排擠到其他教育的經費。就像本席之前一直提醒部長的，給地方的教育經費其實就包含在中央統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡面，就已經包含在裡面了，教育部所做的補助早就已經包含在統籌分配給縣市政府的款項裡了，所以教育部還是要嚴正的澄清，中央補助地方經費減少是因為財劃法已經把資源分配給地方，而不是減少補助，應該由地方自治所做的教育事項不應該再由中央政府補助，應該回歸給地方政府，由地方政府負擔，所以部長如果有面對這樣的質疑，你必須做更清楚的說明。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，確實以前是要用計畫型或者一些申請，然後中央、教育部才會把經費撥到地方，現在因為財劃法，許多我們原來在做的事情就直接下放到地方，譬如說2到6歲的部分，我們原來編了688億元，現在則是88億元已經直接給到地方裡面，另外的600億元，中央就按實際的學生跟老師人數及一些營運的經費，也直接撥到地方，在這個部分，我想未來我們會把它講清楚。"],["陳委員秀寳：誠如部長剛剛所回答的，這些經費已經直接給了，那麼地方的教育單位知不知道錢拿了就該做這些？這是權責的區分，這個部分希望你們要跟地方政府再溝通好，而且我希望我們教育部有一個監督的機制，因為這些款項給了之後有沒有被挪用、是不是確實用到教育上，這一點其實家長也很關心。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，為了因應財劃法，我們當時也跟22個縣市的教育局處所長座談，因為我們也擔心民選的縣市首長會基於他對城市發展的重點跟理念而在經費上有一些編列，我們也希望教育部既有的政策，這些經費下放到地方的時候，一定要讓縣市首長知道，能把這些經費覈實的用來推動地方的教育。"],["陳委員秀寳：本席希望的就是這些教育經費既然已經給了地方政府，它就可以被落實的使用在教育項目，而不是被地方政府挪用之後，又來跟中央、又來跟教育部說沒有經費。希望教育部要留意地方政府是不是有確實的執行，所以我說需要有一個監督的機制，這部分也請教育部再研議，有相關的方式後再給我辦公室一份資料。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒。"],["主席：謝謝陳秀寳委員的質詢，謝謝部長，請回座。"],["主席（陳委員秀寳代）：接下來請劉書彬召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-22-3","speakers":["劉書彬","柯志恩","吳沛憶","范雲","林沛祥","葛如鈞","葉元之","羅廷瑋","萬美玲","郭昱晴","謝龍介","陳秀寳","陳瑩","林宜瑾","賴惠員","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐富癸","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","林月琴","洪孟楷","林德福","高金素梅","翁曉玲"],"page_start":175,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00005"}}}