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00:01:36,901\n雖然我們看到的是在學生當中現在就少數的學生但是學生裡面的授教權跟教師的工作權是很重要的想請問的是部長或者是看到是署長你這邊對於學校的學生的授教權可以看到他現在比較少但是現在教師的工作權這部分處理的原則是什麼\n\n5\n00:01:38,715 --> 00:01:54,054\n我想跟委員報告事實上學生的受教訓我們一定如果學校退場我們一定會就近的安排包含這一個他可能衍生出的交通費我們大概在整個退場的機制裡面都會這一個對學生可以一些協助\n\n6\n00:01:54,494 --> 00:02:14,201\n那另外老師的一些他的一個工作權或者他的一個薪資上所有的東西我們事實上以這幾年來我們在私校退場都有一個非常標準的SOP處理的機制我想怎麼樣去確保確保老師的一個權益好這個SOP就請部長之後就給本辦公室\n\n7\n00:02:17,822 --> 00:02:46,778\n那另外更重要的是校地的問題齁我們看到的是有幾個在撕苗栗的跟彰化的部分你們教育部有注意到說他必須要不得做私用嘛他有些長照啦或者是要做養生的你們把他補助啦那算是好事情齁但是時程上面現在請問大概這些什麼時候校地這邊要怎麼樣的時間性或大概多久會處理完有沒有跟地方政府或是跨部會做協調這在你們報告當中有呈現出來了\n\n8\n00:02:47,498 --> 00:03:07,096\n好跟委員報告針對私校退場之後他的校地在完成解散清算之後他才有辦法去做校地的處理那行政院有組成一個針對退場學校校地的使用那會先徵詢各部會\n\n9\n00:03:08,577 --> 00:03:34,716\n看有没有部会有需要这样的校地来做公务使用以大专校院来讲已经有非常多的部会跟县市政府来这部分就是说有一个结算现在也还没到所谓的结算的部分所以还没有进行那大概就可以知道说现在有这些的一个几种的处理方式我们看到的教育部这边是不是可以承诺他必须都是为教育公益为优先考量是能做这样的承诺呢\n\n10\n00:03:35,296 --> 00:03:48,133\n而以公益优先这个是没有问题一定是公用的那至于这个公用是不是在教育方面或是在例如说卫福部它可能有\n\n11\n00:03:50,186 --> 00:04:16,440\n長照的需求經濟部有產業人才培育的需求等等那這個就看承接的部會好這部會有注意到這個公益我覺得教育部或政府有這樣的承諾是好事情我們現在看到的是明道大學我想應該同樣是這個問題他們沒有做清算嘛是不是這樣子好那另外的包括的是在清大這邊我們看到是有這樣的發展是好事情在根據中華大學的部分\n\n12\n00:04:17,020 --> 00:04:40,151\n那他還有老師喔所以這邊要特別要注意到老師這邊我想這個請教育部這邊的後來這邊就繼續在追蹤他做下報告好謝謝那我們繼續再往下看我潮池化的問題不只是涉及到現在要退場的就是包括之中看到的是依照這個全國私立學校產業工會的分析當中未來大家看這個表\n\n13\n00:04:41,051 --> 00:04:53,288\n現在是一個低潮啦但是下一次的時候呢會跟到124年的時候從現在的一般的17萬到14萬多那請問一下教育部這邊有什麼樣的規劃嗎針對這樣的情況\n\n14\n00:04:57,787 --> 00:05:16,929\n那跟委員報告那針對整個少子女化的這樣的一個狀況當然這個是一個不可逆除了說國內聲援的一個持續我們透過行政院的少子女化專案辦公室來增加國內的請問一下是不是只能只有退場\n\n15\n00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:18,991\n是他當然可以轉型\n\n16\n00:05:47,990 --> 00:06:13,448\n像长照这些体系而包括更重要的是在于包括像AI或者是更重要的大概医疗的部分等等的有这个考虑吗有跟我们报告其实这几年政府对于技职教育的资源投入其实是非常的多所以我们对于整个技职校院的一个设备配合国家5加2的产业发展\n\n17\n00:06:14,348 --> 00:06:34,449\n我们有建了很多的一个人才培育基地那像今年我们又针对AI百工百业AI人才的培育那我们也提供我们的学校相关的设备针对像有些进入他从小中学他进入到高职的时候其实在国中结束就有一个很重要这个宣传够吗\n\n18\n00:06:35,910 --> 00:06:57,706\n現場可能都沒有聽到這樣的聲音中等學校這部分我想國教署這邊也是有一些的計畫來推動那我剛跟報告的是記專的部分跟委員報告感謝委員關心因為確實少子化一定會對高校產生一定的衝擊可是我也利用這個在這一年來我也跟我們大學的校長做一個觀念的分享\n\n19\n00:06:58,908 --> 00:07:20,064\n我們不要少子化如果它是一個客觀的一個事實除了我們產業需求我們引進所謂的這個僑外生以外來豐富我們的這個產業的需求人才的培育另外還有一個就是從終身學習的觀點來看為什麼我們那麼多的大學150幾所大學每一個都在想18\n\n20\n00:07:21,832 --> 00:07:44,947\n所以那一個所謂的15萬未來15萬或者14萬的學生我們能不能想從終身學習產業上的一些不斷的科技的發展30歲以後他應該隨時能夠讓他有機會回到大學也就是說我們未來的招生大學的經營不應該只在想18歲而是你要想怎麼樣去把自己\n\n21\n00:07:45,327 --> 00:07:59,955\n部長你說得很好但是很重要的是如果人才一直少像應該有做院裡面要做所謂的跨部會的讓人才的能夠或是人生育率能夠再提升這是非常重要這當然是另外一個對人口的一個政策上的一個好我知道政府\n\n22\n00:08:00,535 --> 00:08:23,364\n部長你有這樣一個宣示是說要終身學習是也在做也是蠻好的我們繼續下面看一個問題在學習歷程上面看到的是很大的一個這是造成在暑假當中一個很大的新聞那有一個造假之後呢他就重新透過分科測驗裡面就進來了那你看到的時候想問教育部對於學習歷程造假這個問題發現到這個制度跟運作有什麼問題\n\n23\n00:08:24,304 --> 00:08:43,864\n包括更重要是我們看到的是有團體喔他提到的是他說浪費很大長大的資源事實上有1.5萬份的是無人審閱那教室的疲於應付還有造假是難以查核因為你既然做這部分就很重要去查核可是更重要是請問教育部裡面的在大學大考中心裡面所\n\n24\n00:08:45,157 --> 00:09:04,019\n學歷學習歷程他的目的應該是要作為讓他去瞭解這個考試瞭解整個學習的甚至透過自己的生涯的規劃嘛對吧那這個情況我們想問的是可是在這種情況之下你教育部問到的他看到你什麼問題呢\n\n25\n00:09:07,834 --> 00:09:36,526\n学习历程档案的这个部分就大学端来讲它确实如同刚才委员所说的是在学生这些老师在审查学生的一个过程中看他学习的整个过程所以我们也透过了相关的一个跟高中端以及大学端的一个讨论希望能够未来再针对学习历程档案怎么样更符合检视出来是这个学生所如实表现的这个部分也有做了一些精进的一个探讨\n\n26\n00:09:37,066 --> 00:09:52,419\n你們有做查核嗎我們目前是用宣導的形式來鼓勵高中端的學生在填寫這個學生歷程檔案的時候要如實填寫這個部分我們有加強宣導我們也有印製手冊來給這些學生做參考\n\n27\n00:09:52,839 --> 00:10:18,679\n那在高中端的部分我想国教署这边也有在老师的一个教导学生上面的部分辅导学生的部分也有做相关的一个改进好这个部分我们看到的是其实这个是国教盟这边他提出来这部分他造成了很多的一个成果没办法展现而且学生的这个学习效果他的就是\n\n28\n00:10:19,479 --> 00:10:31,483\n並沒有說這麼樣的如實去呈現然後甚至是造成家庭背景到校別的差異很大那最重要的是說他們提供的建議是說如果你是把它跟生學的考試結合在一起的時候是一個大的問題\n\n29\n00:10:36,445 --> 00:11:00,853\n如果本身的目的是要讓大家可以知道這樣的一個學習認識重要的重視到學習的效果等等的這部分請問教育部這邊的一些改革方因為你剛所說的要去查核或是說學倫的一個宣導等等都是好事情可是這部分還是沒有辦法必須要回歸到學習歷程當中很核心的部分他就是要重視他自己學習而不是跟學習就是跟升學掛鉤\n\n30\n00:11:01,673 --> 00:11:28,320\n想问教育部的改革方向当中有没有考虑到说这个废除或是说全面的改制跟委员报告那其实我们在今年度其实有委托我们的一个研究团队指出来其实我们大学班是这个保守会学吗对是我们相关的那个研究室指出来其实老师在审查这些学生的被审资料当中学习历程档案是他们重要的一个参考\n\n31\n00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:53,912\n那也可以看出學生他在整個高中學習階段的一個他的一些學習的一些潛力在哪裡那這一份報告我們會後可以提供給委員做參考其實雖然高中端有在老師我們也有調查到說您說的沒有錯這個是參考非常好但是既然他是參考就應該不要再算在他的升學裡面的積分部長您的想法呢\n\n32\n00:11:54,687 --> 00:12:15,227\n跟委員報告其實學習歷程檔案是配合108年的課綱的一個實施是但是跟教學的跟升學掛鉤這樣是好的嗎那我們在學生的審查資料當中學生可以把這一份讓學生可以充分的展現自己在老師審查的時候可以讓他們有一個審查的依據當時的一個資料\n\n33\n00:12:16,588 --> 00:12:26,921\n對神殺依據但是如果把它計分其實就是一個比較可惜的會浪費了很多的上力而且人生你要做的話就是效果應該呈現但是計分時的要去考慮要不要放進來的\n\n34\n00:12:28,139 --> 00:12:48,517\n謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們內部也在跟大學端在做一些討論在研議就是說我們肯定學習歷程當然對一個學生他整個學習是的包括他整個生涯發展的一些想像怎麼樣去連結但是要不要變成一個必要的一個畢業的還是\n\n35\n00:12:50,834 --> 00:13:10,715\n尊重各大学各系所里边的一些他们自己来规范我想我们内部事实上也在做这样的一个讨论是不是有一个大概半年之内在下一次之前有一个帮忙我想我们跟大学端里边有一个更积极的讨论的一个结果我想我们会来做一个说明\n\n36\n00:13:11,115 --> 00:13:35,865\n好我現在最後一個議題很快就是在教師方的議題因為我自己也要遵守自己的規則教師方問題剛才好幾位的委員都已經提到那最重要的我針對的會是在因為全教總有他們的一個訴求那教育部長您也都應該聽到啦在這邊的我想要特別強調是在待遇的合理上面是一個整體看的有這個本心啦\n\n37\n00:13:36,605 --> 00:14:02,404\n教導師費行政佳績特殊偏遠終點費那終點費其實是針對的是代理教師跟兼任教師可能是比較重視的那這些部分的話我想剛出國教盟這邊或是全教總統提到的是一個行政職務的佳績這邊就經常教育部裡面就非常多的一個一個意見說要公教一體來把它駁回啦那這個部分我想要請教的是是不是因為\n\n38\n00:14:03,445 --> 00:14:18,446\n叫部長跟國教署彭署長你也知道了教師荒這個問題已經讓了包括失陪層都不願意進入到就算是拿到證照他也不願意去到教師的現場去了所以這邊的待遇合理的部分包括\n\n39\n00:14:19,587 --> 00:14:43,540\n跟所謂的消費者指數的差異性都是差很大那這一部分我想要請部長這是真的非常重要因為沒有好的教師就沒有好的人才培育那我們又是以特別以人才的培育的優秀人才為主的這樣一個國家就是可以部長您是不是可以承諾針對這邊的教師的待遇合理的部分這麼多項在部分做一下的一個在\n\n40\n00:14:44,840 --> 00:15:04,971\n在半年之內做一個評估報告或是在一定時間內做一個評估報告必須跟大家大眾公布感謝委員的一個關心怎麼樣讓老師能夠穩定而且對教育工作的一個價值的一個肯定事實上委員所關心的是教育部一直把它列為我們一個重點那當然\n\n41\n00:15:05,851 --> 00:15:21,293\n我想我们这个方向那个重点那什么时间你不能够旷日费时明年等下在一年之后又出现了我必须要跟我们讲就是说我们在定定很多方式的时候它一定是从整体的一个国家的一个各个行业领域的一个考量\n\n42\n00:15:21,693 --> 00:15:36,779\n但是他一定是怎麼樣提升老師的待遇合理的一個待遇我想這是我們你要應該要提供一個時間點例如說在半年之內好不好半年之內我們先提供一個評估報告沒有說要做什麼但是先出評估報告出來可以嗎可以\n\n43\n00:15:37,119 --> 00:16:06,046\n可以那另外一部分就是在退休的部分現在看到的所得替代率在軍人部分已經調到80%警校這邊因為有這樣的再如果撥補下去也大概80%那可是老師這部分60%這又是很大的部分想要請問在如果公教人員退休條例的修正這部分雖然是可能是全序部這邊要進行那教育部您的部長您作為教師的這個領域教育界的這個大家長您的探訪隊隊退休只要60%\n\n44\n00:16:07,406 --> 00:16:30,468\n你的看法是如何我老師的許多的待遇包含退休我當然是全力這個樂觀其成也會這個支持那當然這裡邊誠如剛才委員所講的他有許多的這些制度我們當然一定會在關鍵時刻表達我們的立場那當然是國家的一個整體來看他當然有一定的一個整體上的一些規劃\n\n45\n00:16:32,170 --> 00:16:45,042\n我想您是教育部長應該表現出來一個支持挺教師的態度那至於整個桌下預算怎麼等等的算是行政院的考量嗎是說您是挺教師的嘛對不對待遇再提開好謝謝部長好謝謝昭緯謝謝主席謝謝蘇編昭緯質詢部長請回座\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2366\t17617\t好就這樣子好就先離席接下來請劉書斌召委質詢有請鄭部長請鄭部長\n35541\t57014\t今天跟你要討論的是關於有學校退場的議題我們看到的是在暑假期間有三個苗栗的高中或高職還有一個台南的高職還有彰化的各個高職的學校他退場那我們就要關心的是\n58286\t73879\t學生的權益跟校地的預計何時來規劃還包括的是後續的時程是如何進行還是否會依照公益性的原則回歸教育用途來處理那我們現在助理準備的這些資料裡面\n74760\t96901\t雖然我們看到的是在學生當中 現在就少數的學生但是學生裡面的授教權跟教師的工作權是很重要的想請問的是部長或者是看到是署長你這邊對於學校的學生的授教權可以看到他現在比較少 但是現在教師的工作權這部分處理的原則是什麼\n98715\t114054\t我想跟委員報告事實上學生的受教訓我們一定如果學校退場我們一定會就近的安排包含這一個他可能衍生出的交通費我們大概在整個退場的機制裡面都會這一個對學生可以一些協助\n114494\t134201\t那另外老師的一些他的一個工作權或者他的一個薪資上所有的東西我們事實上以這幾年來我們在私校退場都有一個非常標準的SOP處理的機制我想怎麼樣去確保確保老師的一個權益好 這個SOP就請部長之後就給本辦公室\n137822\t166778\t那另外更重要的是校地的問題齁我們看到的是有幾個在撕苗栗的跟彰化的部分你們教育部有注意到說他必須要不得做私用嘛他有些長照啦或者是要做養生的你們把他補助啦那算是好事情齁但是時程上面現在請問大概這些什麼時候校地這邊要怎麼樣的時間性或大概多久會處理完有沒有跟地方政府或是跨部會做協調這在你們報告當中有呈現出來了\n167498\t187096\t好跟委員報告針對私校退場之後他的校地在完成解散清算之後他才有辦法去做校地的處理那行政院有組成一個針對退場學校校地的使用那會先徵詢各部會\n188577\t214716\t看有没有部会有需要这样的校地来做公务使用以大专校院来讲已经有非常多的部会跟县市政府来这部分就是说有一个结算现在也还没到所谓的结算的部分所以还没有进行那大概就可以知道说现在有这些的一个几种的处理方式我们看到的教育部这边是不是可以承诺他必须都是为教育公益为优先考量是能做这样的承诺呢\n215296\t228133\t而以公益优先这个是没有问题一定是公用的那至于这个公用是不是在教育方面或是在例如说卫福部它可能有\n230186\t256440\t長照的需求經濟部有產業人才培育的需求等等那這個就看承接的部會好 這部會有注意到這個公益我覺得教育部或政府有這樣的承諾是好事情我們現在看到的是明道大學我想應該同樣是這個問題 他們沒有做清算嘛是不是這樣子 好 那另外的包括的是在清大這邊我們看到是有這樣的發展是好事情在根據中華大學的部分\n257020\t280151\t那他還有老師喔所以這邊要特別要注意到老師這邊我想這個請教育部這邊的後來這邊就繼續在追蹤他做下報告好謝謝那我們繼續再往下看我潮池化的問題不只是涉及到現在要退場的就是包括之中看到的是依照這個全國私立學校產業工會的分析當中未來大家看這個表\n281051\t293288\t現在是一個低潮啦但是下一次的時候呢會跟到124年的時候從現在的一般的17萬到14萬多那請問一下教育部這邊有什麼樣的規劃嗎針對這樣的情況\n297787\t316929\t那跟委員報告那針對整個少子女化的這樣的一個狀況當然這個是一個不可逆除了說國內聲援的一個持續我們透過行政院的少子女化專案辦公室來增加國內的請問一下是不是只能只有退場\n317990\t318991\t是 他當然可以轉型\n347990\t373448\t像长照这些体系而包括更重要的是在于包括像AI或者是更重要的大概医疗的部分等等的有这个考虑吗有 跟我们报告其实这几年政府对于技职教育的资源投入其实是非常的多所以我们对于整个技职校院的一个设备配合国家5加2的产业发展\n374348\t394449\t我们有建了很多的一个人才培育基地那像今年我们又针对AI百工百业AI人才的培育那我们也提供我们的学校相关的设备针对像有些进入他从小中学他进入到高职的时候其实在国中结束就有一个很重要这个宣传够吗\n395910\t417706\t現場可能都沒有聽到這樣的聲音中等學校這部分我想國教署這邊也是有一些的計畫來推動那我剛跟報告的是記專的部分跟委員報告感謝委員關心因為確實少子化一定會對高校產生一定的衝擊可是我也利用這個在這一年來我也跟我們大學的校長做一個觀念的分享\n418908\t440064\t我們不要少子化如果它是一個客觀的一個事實除了我們產業需求我們引進所謂的這個僑外生以外來豐富我們的這個產業的需求人才的培育另外還有一個就是從終身學習的觀點來看為什麼我們那麼多的大學150幾所大學每一個都在想18\n441832\t464947\t所以那一個所謂的15萬未來15萬或者14萬的學生我們能不能想從終身學習產業上的一些不斷的科技的發展30歲以後他應該隨時能夠讓他有機會回到大學也就是說我們未來的招生大學的經營不應該只在想18歲而是你要想怎麼樣去把自己\n465327\t479955\t部長你說得很好但是很重要的是如果人才一直少像應該有做院裡面要做所謂的跨部會的讓人才的能夠或是人生育率能夠再提升這是非常重要這當然是另外一個對人口的一個政策上的一個好我知道政府\n480535\t503364\t部長你有這樣一個宣示是說要終身學習是也在做也是蠻好的我們繼續下面看一個問題在學習歷程上面看到的是很大的一個這是造成在暑假當中一個很大的新聞那有一個造假之後呢他就重新透過分科測驗裡面就進來了那你看到的時候想問教育部對於學習歷程造假這個問題發現到這個制度跟運作有什麼問題\n504304\t523864\t包括更重要是我們看到的是有團體喔他提到的是他說浪費很大長大的資源事實上有1.5萬份的是無人審閱那教室的疲於應付還有造假是難以查核因為你既然做這部分就很重要去查核可是更重要是請問教育部裡面的在大學大考中心裡面所\n525157\t544019\t學歷 學習歷程他的目的應該是要作為讓他去瞭解這個考試瞭解整個學習的甚至透過自己的生涯的規劃嘛 對吧那這個情況我們想問的是可是在這種情況之下你教育部問到的他看到你什麼問題呢\n547834\t576526\t学习历程档案的这个部分就大学端来讲它确实如同刚才委员所说的是在学生这些老师在审查学生的一个过程中看他学习的整个过程所以我们也透过了相关的一个跟高中端以及大学端的一个讨论希望能够未来再针对学习历程档案怎么样更符合检视出来是这个学生所如实表现的这个部分也有做了一些精进的一个探讨\n577066\t592419\t你們有做查核嗎我們目前是用宣導的形式來鼓勵高中端的學生在填寫這個學生歷程檔案的時候要如實填寫這個部分我們有加強宣導我們也有印製手冊來給這些學生做參考\n592839\t618679\t那在高中端的部分我想国教署这边也有在老师的一个教导学生上面的部分辅导学生的部分也有做相关的一个改进好这个部分我们看到的是其实这个是国教盟这边他提出来这部分他造成了很多的一个成果没办法展现而且学生的这个学习效果他的就是\n619479\t631483\t並沒有說這麼樣的如實去呈現然後甚至是造成家庭背景到校別的差異很大那最重要的是說他們提供的建議是說如果你是把它跟生學的考試結合在一起的時候是一個大的問題\n636445\t660853\t如果本身的目的是要讓大家可以知道這樣的一個學習認識重要的重視到學習的效果等等的這部分請問教育部這邊的一些改革方因為你剛所說的要去查核或是說學倫的一個宣導等等都是好事情可是這部分還是沒有辦法必須要回歸到學習歷程當中很核心的部分他就是要重視他自己學習而不是跟學習就是跟升學掛鉤\n661673\t688320\t想问教育部的改革方向当中有没有考虑到说这个废除或是说全面的改制跟委员报告那其实我们在今年度其实有委托我们的一个研究团队指出来其实我们大学班是这个保守会学吗对是我们相关的那个研究室指出来其实老师在审查这些学生的被审资料当中学习历程档案是他们重要的一个参考\n688760\t713912\t那也可以看出學生他在整個高中學習階段的一個他的一些學習的一些潛力在哪裡那這一份報告我們會後可以提供給委員做參考其實雖然高中端有在老師我們也有調查到說您說的沒有錯這個是參考非常好但是既然他是參考就應該不要再算在他的升學裡面的積分部長您的想法呢\n714687\t735227\t跟委員報告其實學習歷程檔案是配合108年的課綱的一個實施是 但是跟教學的跟升學掛鉤這樣是好的嗎那我們在學生的審查資料當中學生可以把這一份讓學生可以充分的展現自己在老師審查的時候可以讓他們有一個審查的依據當時的一個資料\n736588\t746921\t對 神殺 依據 但是如果把它計分其實就是一個比較可惜的會浪費了很多的上力 而且 人生你要做的話就是效果應該呈現 但是計分時的要去考慮要不要放進來的\n748139\t768517\t謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們內部也在跟大學端在做一些討論在研議就是說我們肯定學習歷程當然對一個學生他整個學習是的包括他整個生涯發展的一些想像怎麼樣去連結但是要不要變成一個必要的一個畢業的還是\n770834\t790715\t尊重各大学各系所里边的一些他们自己来规范我想我们内部事实上也在做这样的一个讨论是不是有一个大概半年之内在下一次之前有一个帮忙我想我们跟大学端里边有一个更积极的讨论的一个结果我想我们会来做一个说明\n791115\t815865\t好 我現在最後一個議題很快就是在教師方的議題因為我自己也要遵守自己的規則教師方問題剛才好幾位的委員都已經提到那最重要的我針對的會是在因為全教總有他們的一個訴求那教育部長您也都應該聽到啦在這邊的 我想要特別強調是在待遇的合理上面是一個整體看的有這個本心啦\n816605\t842404\t教導師費 行政佳績 特殊偏遠 終點費那終點費其實是針對的是代理教師跟兼任教師可能是比較重視的那這些部分的話 我想剛出國教盟這邊或是全教總統提到的是一個行政職務的佳績這邊就經常教育部裡面就非常多的一個一個意見說要公教一體來把它駁回啦那這個部分我想要請教的是是不是因為\n843445\t858446\t叫部長跟國教署彭署長你也知道了教師荒這個問題已經讓了包括失陪層都不願意進入到就算是拿到證照他也不願意去到教師的現場去了所以這邊的待遇合理的部分包括\n859587\t883540\t跟所謂的消費者指數的差異性都是差很大那這一部分我想要請部長這是真的非常重要因為沒有好的教師就沒有好的人才培育那我們又是以特別以人才的培育的優秀人才為主的這樣一個國家就是可以部長您是不是可以承諾針對這邊的教師的待遇合理的部分這麼多項在部分做一下的一個在\n884840\t904971\t在半年之內做一個評估報告或是在一定時間內做一個評估報告必須跟大家大眾公布感謝委員的一個關心怎麼樣讓老師能夠穩定而且對教育工作的一個價值的一個肯定事實上委員所關心的是教育部一直把它列為我們一個重點那當然\n905851\t921293\t我想我们这个方向那个重点那什么时间你不能够旷日费时明年等下在一年之后又出现了我必须要跟我们讲就是说我们在定定很多方式的时候它一定是从整体的一个国家的一个各个行业领域的一个考量\n921693\t936779\t但是他一定是怎麼樣提升老師的待遇合理的一個待遇我想這是我們你要應該要提供一個時間點例如說在半年之內好不好半年之內我們先提供一個評估報告沒有說要做什麼但是先出評估報告出來可以嗎可以\n937119\t966046\t可以 那另外一部分就是在退休的部分現在看到的所得替代率在軍人部分已經調到80%警校這邊因為有這樣的再如果撥補下去也大概80%那可是老師這部分60%這又是很大的部分想要請問在如果公教人員退休條例的修正這部分雖然是可能是全序部這邊要進行那教育部您的部長您作為教師的這個領域教育界的這個大家長您的探訪隊隊退休只要60%\n967406\t990468\t你的看法是如何我老師的許多的待遇包含退休我當然是全力這個樂觀其成也會這個支持那當然這裡邊誠如剛才委員所講的他有許多的這些制度我們當然一定會在關鍵時刻表達我們的立場那當然是國家的一個整體來看他當然有一定的一個整體上的一些規劃\n992170\t1005042\t我想 您是教育部長 應該表現出來一個支持挺教師的態度那至於整個桌下預算怎麼等等的 算是行政院的考量嗎是說您是挺教師的嘛 對不對待遇再提開 好 謝謝部長好 謝謝昭緯 謝謝主席謝謝蘇編昭緯質詢 部長請回座\n","txt":"好就這樣子好就先離席接下來請劉書斌召委質詢有請鄭部長請鄭部長\n今天跟你要討論的是關於有學校退場的議題我們看到的是在暑假期間有三個苗栗的高中或高職還有一個台南的高職還有彰化的各個高職的學校他退場那我們就要關心的是\n學生的權益跟校地的預計何時來規劃還包括的是後續的時程是如何進行還是否會依照公益性的原則回歸教育用途來處理那我們現在助理準備的這些資料裡面\n雖然我們看到的是在學生當中 現在就少數的學生但是學生裡面的授教權跟教師的工作權是很重要的想請問的是部長或者是看到是署長你這邊對於學校的學生的授教權可以看到他現在比較少 但是現在教師的工作權這部分處理的原則是什麼\n我想跟委員報告事實上學生的受教訓我們一定如果學校退場我們一定會就近的安排包含這一個他可能衍生出的交通費我們大概在整個退場的機制裡面都會這一個對學生可以一些協助\n那另外老師的一些他的一個工作權或者他的一個薪資上所有的東西我們事實上以這幾年來我們在私校退場都有一個非常標準的SOP處理的機制我想怎麼樣去確保確保老師的一個權益好 這個SOP就請部長之後就給本辦公室\n那另外更重要的是校地的問題齁我們看到的是有幾個在撕苗栗的跟彰化的部分你們教育部有注意到說他必須要不得做私用嘛他有些長照啦或者是要做養生的你們把他補助啦那算是好事情齁但是時程上面現在請問大概這些什麼時候校地這邊要怎麼樣的時間性或大概多久會處理完有沒有跟地方政府或是跨部會做協調這在你們報告當中有呈現出來了\n好跟委員報告針對私校退場之後他的校地在完成解散清算之後他才有辦法去做校地的處理那行政院有組成一個針對退場學校校地的使用那會先徵詢各部會\n看有没有部会有需要这样的校地来做公务使用以大专校院来讲已经有非常多的部会跟县市政府来这部分就是说有一个结算现在也还没到所谓的结算的部分所以还没有进行那大概就可以知道说现在有这些的一个几种的处理方式我们看到的教育部这边是不是可以承诺他必须都是为教育公益为优先考量是能做这样的承诺呢\n而以公益优先这个是没有问题一定是公用的那至于这个公用是不是在教育方面或是在例如说卫福部它可能有\n長照的需求經濟部有產業人才培育的需求等等那這個就看承接的部會好 這部會有注意到這個公益我覺得教育部或政府有這樣的承諾是好事情我們現在看到的是明道大學我想應該同樣是這個問題 他們沒有做清算嘛是不是這樣子 好 那另外的包括的是在清大這邊我們看到是有這樣的發展是好事情在根據中華大學的部分\n那他還有老師喔所以這邊要特別要注意到老師這邊我想這個請教育部這邊的後來這邊就繼續在追蹤他做下報告好謝謝那我們繼續再往下看我潮池化的問題不只是涉及到現在要退場的就是包括之中看到的是依照這個全國私立學校產業工會的分析當中未來大家看這個表\n現在是一個低潮啦但是下一次的時候呢會跟到124年的時候從現在的一般的17萬到14萬多那請問一下教育部這邊有什麼樣的規劃嗎針對這樣的情況\n那跟委員報告那針對整個少子女化的這樣的一個狀況當然這個是一個不可逆除了說國內聲援的一個持續我們透過行政院的少子女化專案辦公室來增加國內的請問一下是不是只能只有退場\n是 他當然可以轉型\n像长照这些体系而包括更重要的是在于包括像AI或者是更重要的大概医疗的部分等等的有这个考虑吗有 跟我们报告其实这几年政府对于技职教育的资源投入其实是非常的多所以我们对于整个技职校院的一个设备配合国家5加2的产业发展\n我们有建了很多的一个人才培育基地那像今年我们又针对AI百工百业AI人才的培育那我们也提供我们的学校相关的设备针对像有些进入他从小中学他进入到高职的时候其实在国中结束就有一个很重要这个宣传够吗\n現場可能都沒有聽到這樣的聲音中等學校這部分我想國教署這邊也是有一些的計畫來推動那我剛跟報告的是記專的部分跟委員報告感謝委員關心因為確實少子化一定會對高校產生一定的衝擊可是我也利用這個在這一年來我也跟我們大學的校長做一個觀念的分享\n我們不要少子化如果它是一個客觀的一個事實除了我們產業需求我們引進所謂的這個僑外生以外來豐富我們的這個產業的需求人才的培育另外還有一個就是從終身學習的觀點來看為什麼我們那麼多的大學150幾所大學每一個都在想18\n所以那一個所謂的15萬未來15萬或者14萬的學生我們能不能想從終身學習產業上的一些不斷的科技的發展30歲以後他應該隨時能夠讓他有機會回到大學也就是說我們未來的招生大學的經營不應該只在想18歲而是你要想怎麼樣去把自己\n部長你說得很好但是很重要的是如果人才一直少像應該有做院裡面要做所謂的跨部會的讓人才的能夠或是人生育率能夠再提升這是非常重要這當然是另外一個對人口的一個政策上的一個好我知道政府\n部長你有這樣一個宣示是說要終身學習是也在做也是蠻好的我們繼續下面看一個問題在學習歷程上面看到的是很大的一個這是造成在暑假當中一個很大的新聞那有一個造假之後呢他就重新透過分科測驗裡面就進來了那你看到的時候想問教育部對於學習歷程造假這個問題發現到這個制度跟運作有什麼問題\n包括更重要是我們看到的是有團體喔他提到的是他說浪費很大長大的資源事實上有1.5萬份的是無人審閱那教室的疲於應付還有造假是難以查核因為你既然做這部分就很重要去查核可是更重要是請問教育部裡面的在大學大考中心裡面所\n學歷 學習歷程他的目的應該是要作為讓他去瞭解這個考試瞭解整個學習的甚至透過自己的生涯的規劃嘛 對吧那這個情況我們想問的是可是在這種情況之下你教育部問到的他看到你什麼問題呢\n学习历程档案的这个部分就大学端来讲它确实如同刚才委员所说的是在学生这些老师在审查学生的一个过程中看他学习的整个过程所以我们也透过了相关的一个跟高中端以及大学端的一个讨论希望能够未来再针对学习历程档案怎么样更符合检视出来是这个学生所如实表现的这个部分也有做了一些精进的一个探讨\n你們有做查核嗎我們目前是用宣導的形式來鼓勵高中端的學生在填寫這個學生歷程檔案的時候要如實填寫這個部分我們有加強宣導我們也有印製手冊來給這些學生做參考\n那在高中端的部分我想国教署这边也有在老师的一个教导学生上面的部分辅导学生的部分也有做相关的一个改进好这个部分我们看到的是其实这个是国教盟这边他提出来这部分他造成了很多的一个成果没办法展现而且学生的这个学习效果他的就是\n並沒有說這麼樣的如實去呈現然後甚至是造成家庭背景到校別的差異很大那最重要的是說他們提供的建議是說如果你是把它跟生學的考試結合在一起的時候是一個大的問題\n如果本身的目的是要讓大家可以知道這樣的一個學習認識重要的重視到學習的效果等等的這部分請問教育部這邊的一些改革方因為你剛所說的要去查核或是說學倫的一個宣導等等都是好事情可是這部分還是沒有辦法必須要回歸到學習歷程當中很核心的部分他就是要重視他自己學習而不是跟學習就是跟升學掛鉤\n想问教育部的改革方向当中有没有考虑到说这个废除或是说全面的改制跟委员报告那其实我们在今年度其实有委托我们的一个研究团队指出来其实我们大学班是这个保守会学吗对是我们相关的那个研究室指出来其实老师在审查这些学生的被审资料当中学习历程档案是他们重要的一个参考\n那也可以看出學生他在整個高中學習階段的一個他的一些學習的一些潛力在哪裡那這一份報告我們會後可以提供給委員做參考其實雖然高中端有在老師我們也有調查到說您說的沒有錯這個是參考非常好但是既然他是參考就應該不要再算在他的升學裡面的積分部長您的想法呢\n跟委員報告其實學習歷程檔案是配合108年的課綱的一個實施是 但是跟教學的跟升學掛鉤這樣是好的嗎那我們在學生的審查資料當中學生可以把這一份讓學生可以充分的展現自己在老師審查的時候可以讓他們有一個審查的依據當時的一個資料\n對 神殺 依據 但是如果把它計分其實就是一個比較可惜的會浪費了很多的上力 而且 人生你要做的話就是效果應該呈現 但是計分時的要去考慮要不要放進來的\n謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們內部也在跟大學端在做一些討論在研議就是說我們肯定學習歷程當然對一個學生他整個學習是的包括他整個生涯發展的一些想像怎麼樣去連結但是要不要變成一個必要的一個畢業的還是\n尊重各大学各系所里边的一些他们自己来规范我想我们内部事实上也在做这样的一个讨论是不是有一个大概半年之内在下一次之前有一个帮忙我想我们跟大学端里边有一个更积极的讨论的一个结果我想我们会来做一个说明\n好 我現在最後一個議題很快就是在教師方的議題因為我自己也要遵守自己的規則教師方問題剛才好幾位的委員都已經提到那最重要的我針對的會是在因為全教總有他們的一個訴求那教育部長您也都應該聽到啦在這邊的 我想要特別強調是在待遇的合理上面是一個整體看的有這個本心啦\n教導師費 行政佳績 特殊偏遠 終點費那終點費其實是針對的是代理教師跟兼任教師可能是比較重視的那這些部分的話 我想剛出國教盟這邊或是全教總統提到的是一個行政職務的佳績這邊就經常教育部裡面就非常多的一個一個意見說要公教一體來把它駁回啦那這個部分我想要請教的是是不是因為\n叫部長跟國教署彭署長你也知道了教師荒這個問題已經讓了包括失陪層都不願意進入到就算是拿到證照他也不願意去到教師的現場去了所以這邊的待遇合理的部分包括\n跟所謂的消費者指數的差異性都是差很大那這一部分我想要請部長這是真的非常重要因為沒有好的教師就沒有好的人才培育那我們又是以特別以人才的培育的優秀人才為主的這樣一個國家就是可以部長您是不是可以承諾針對這邊的教師的待遇合理的部分這麼多項在部分做一下的一個在\n在半年之內做一個評估報告或是在一定時間內做一個評估報告必須跟大家大眾公布感謝委員的一個關心怎麼樣讓老師能夠穩定而且對教育工作的一個價值的一個肯定事實上委員所關心的是教育部一直把它列為我們一個重點那當然\n我想我们这个方向那个重点那什么时间你不能够旷日费时明年等下在一年之后又出现了我必须要跟我们讲就是说我们在定定很多方式的时候它一定是从整体的一个国家的一个各个行业领域的一个考量\n但是他一定是怎麼樣提升老師的待遇合理的一個待遇我想這是我們你要應該要提供一個時間點例如說在半年之內好不好半年之內我們先提供一個評估報告沒有說要做什麼但是先出評估報告出來可以嗎可以\n可以 那另外一部分就是在退休的部分現在看到的所得替代率在軍人部分已經調到80%警校這邊因為有這樣的再如果撥補下去也大概80%那可是老師這部分60%這又是很大的部分想要請問在如果公教人員退休條例的修正這部分雖然是可能是全序部這邊要進行那教育部您的部長您作為教師的這個領域教育界的這個大家長您的探訪隊隊退休只要60%\n你的看法是如何我老師的許多的待遇包含退休我當然是全力這個樂觀其成也會這個支持那當然這裡邊誠如剛才委員所講的他有許多的這些制度我們當然一定會在關鍵時刻表達我們的立場那當然是國家的一個整體來看他當然有一定的一個整體上的一些規劃\n我想 您是教育部長 應該表現出來一個支持挺教師的態度那至於整個桌下預算怎麼等等的 算是行政院的考量嗎是說您是挺教師的嘛 對不對待遇再提開 好 謝謝部長好 謝謝昭緯 謝謝主席謝謝蘇編昭緯質詢 部長請回座\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.366 --> 00:17.617\n好就這樣子好就先離席接下來請劉書斌召委質詢有請鄭部長請鄭部長\n\n00:35.541 --> 00:57.014\n今天跟你要討論的是關於有學校退場的議題我們看到的是在暑假期間有三個苗栗的高中或高職還有一個台南的高職還有彰化的各個高職的學校他退場那我們就要關心的是\n\n00:58.286 --> 01:13.879\n學生的權益跟校地的預計何時來規劃還包括的是後續的時程是如何進行還是否會依照公益性的原則回歸教育用途來處理那我們現在助理準備的這些資料裡面\n\n01:14.760 --> 01:36.901\n雖然我們看到的是在學生當中現在就少數的學生但是學生裡面的授教權跟教師的工作權是很重要的想請問的是部長或者是看到是署長你這邊對於學校的學生的授教權可以看到他現在比較少但是現在教師的工作權這部分處理的原則是什麼\n\n01:38.715 --> 01:54.054\n我想跟委員報告事實上學生的受教訓我們一定如果學校退場我們一定會就近的安排包含這一個他可能衍生出的交通費我們大概在整個退場的機制裡面都會這一個對學生可以一些協助\n\n01:54.494 --> 02:14.201\n那另外老師的一些他的一個工作權或者他的一個薪資上所有的東西我們事實上以這幾年來我們在私校退場都有一個非常標準的SOP處理的機制我想怎麼樣去確保確保老師的一個權益好這個SOP就請部長之後就給本辦公室\n\n02:17.822 --> 02:46.778\n那另外更重要的是校地的問題齁我們看到的是有幾個在撕苗栗的跟彰化的部分你們教育部有注意到說他必須要不得做私用嘛他有些長照啦或者是要做養生的你們把他補助啦那算是好事情齁但是時程上面現在請問大概這些什麼時候校地這邊要怎麼樣的時間性或大概多久會處理完有沒有跟地方政府或是跨部會做協調這在你們報告當中有呈現出來了\n\n02:47.498 --> 03:07.096\n好跟委員報告針對私校退場之後他的校地在完成解散清算之後他才有辦法去做校地的處理那行政院有組成一個針對退場學校校地的使用那會先徵詢各部會\n\n03:08.577 --> 03:34.716\n看有没有部会有需要这样的校地来做公务使用以大专校院来讲已经有非常多的部会跟县市政府来这部分就是说有一个结算现在也还没到所谓的结算的部分所以还没有进行那大概就可以知道说现在有这些的一个几种的处理方式我们看到的教育部这边是不是可以承诺他必须都是为教育公益为优先考量是能做这样的承诺呢\n\n03:35.296 --> 03:48.133\n而以公益优先这个是没有问题一定是公用的那至于这个公用是不是在教育方面或是在例如说卫福部它可能有\n\n03:50.186 --> 04:16.440\n長照的需求經濟部有產業人才培育的需求等等那這個就看承接的部會好這部會有注意到這個公益我覺得教育部或政府有這樣的承諾是好事情我們現在看到的是明道大學我想應該同樣是這個問題他們沒有做清算嘛是不是這樣子好那另外的包括的是在清大這邊我們看到是有這樣的發展是好事情在根據中華大學的部分\n\n04:17.020 --> 04:40.151\n那他還有老師喔所以這邊要特別要注意到老師這邊我想這個請教育部這邊的後來這邊就繼續在追蹤他做下報告好謝謝那我們繼續再往下看我潮池化的問題不只是涉及到現在要退場的就是包括之中看到的是依照這個全國私立學校產業工會的分析當中未來大家看這個表\n\n04:41.051 --> 04:53.288\n現在是一個低潮啦但是下一次的時候呢會跟到124年的時候從現在的一般的17萬到14萬多那請問一下教育部這邊有什麼樣的規劃嗎針對這樣的情況\n\n04:57.787 --> 05:16.929\n那跟委員報告那針對整個少子女化的這樣的一個狀況當然這個是一個不可逆除了說國內聲援的一個持續我們透過行政院的少子女化專案辦公室來增加國內的請問一下是不是只能只有退場\n\n05:17.990 --> 05:18.991\n是他當然可以轉型\n\n05:47.990 --> 06:13.448\n像长照这些体系而包括更重要的是在于包括像AI或者是更重要的大概医疗的部分等等的有这个考虑吗有跟我们报告其实这几年政府对于技职教育的资源投入其实是非常的多所以我们对于整个技职校院的一个设备配合国家5加2的产业发展\n\n06:14.348 --> 06:34.449\n我们有建了很多的一个人才培育基地那像今年我们又针对AI百工百业AI人才的培育那我们也提供我们的学校相关的设备针对像有些进入他从小中学他进入到高职的时候其实在国中结束就有一个很重要这个宣传够吗\n\n06:35.910 --> 06:57.706\n現場可能都沒有聽到這樣的聲音中等學校這部分我想國教署這邊也是有一些的計畫來推動那我剛跟報告的是記專的部分跟委員報告感謝委員關心因為確實少子化一定會對高校產生一定的衝擊可是我也利用這個在這一年來我也跟我們大學的校長做一個觀念的分享\n\n06:58.908 --> 07:20.064\n我們不要少子化如果它是一個客觀的一個事實除了我們產業需求我們引進所謂的這個僑外生以外來豐富我們的這個產業的需求人才的培育另外還有一個就是從終身學習的觀點來看為什麼我們那麼多的大學150幾所大學每一個都在想18\n\n07:21.832 --> 07:44.947\n所以那一個所謂的15萬未來15萬或者14萬的學生我們能不能想從終身學習產業上的一些不斷的科技的發展30歲以後他應該隨時能夠讓他有機會回到大學也就是說我們未來的招生大學的經營不應該只在想18歲而是你要想怎麼樣去把自己\n\n07:45.327 --> 07:59.955\n部長你說得很好但是很重要的是如果人才一直少像應該有做院裡面要做所謂的跨部會的讓人才的能夠或是人生育率能夠再提升這是非常重要這當然是另外一個對人口的一個政策上的一個好我知道政府\n\n08:00.535 --> 08:23.364\n部長你有這樣一個宣示是說要終身學習是也在做也是蠻好的我們繼續下面看一個問題在學習歷程上面看到的是很大的一個這是造成在暑假當中一個很大的新聞那有一個造假之後呢他就重新透過分科測驗裡面就進來了那你看到的時候想問教育部對於學習歷程造假這個問題發現到這個制度跟運作有什麼問題\n\n08:24.304 --> 08:43.864\n包括更重要是我們看到的是有團體喔他提到的是他說浪費很大長大的資源事實上有1.5萬份的是無人審閱那教室的疲於應付還有造假是難以查核因為你既然做這部分就很重要去查核可是更重要是請問教育部裡面的在大學大考中心裡面所\n\n08:45.157 --> 09:04.019\n學歷學習歷程他的目的應該是要作為讓他去瞭解這個考試瞭解整個學習的甚至透過自己的生涯的規劃嘛對吧那這個情況我們想問的是可是在這種情況之下你教育部問到的他看到你什麼問題呢\n\n09:07.834 --> 09:36.526\n学习历程档案的这个部分就大学端来讲它确实如同刚才委员所说的是在学生这些老师在审查学生的一个过程中看他学习的整个过程所以我们也透过了相关的一个跟高中端以及大学端的一个讨论希望能够未来再针对学习历程档案怎么样更符合检视出来是这个学生所如实表现的这个部分也有做了一些精进的一个探讨\n\n09:37.066 --> 09:52.419\n你們有做查核嗎我們目前是用宣導的形式來鼓勵高中端的學生在填寫這個學生歷程檔案的時候要如實填寫這個部分我們有加強宣導我們也有印製手冊來給這些學生做參考\n\n09:52.839 --> 10:18.679\n那在高中端的部分我想国教署这边也有在老师的一个教导学生上面的部分辅导学生的部分也有做相关的一个改进好这个部分我们看到的是其实这个是国教盟这边他提出来这部分他造成了很多的一个成果没办法展现而且学生的这个学习效果他的就是\n\n10:19.479 --> 10:31.483\n並沒有說這麼樣的如實去呈現然後甚至是造成家庭背景到校別的差異很大那最重要的是說他們提供的建議是說如果你是把它跟生學的考試結合在一起的時候是一個大的問題\n\n10:36.445 --> 11:00.853\n如果本身的目的是要讓大家可以知道這樣的一個學習認識重要的重視到學習的效果等等的這部分請問教育部這邊的一些改革方因為你剛所說的要去查核或是說學倫的一個宣導等等都是好事情可是這部分還是沒有辦法必須要回歸到學習歷程當中很核心的部分他就是要重視他自己學習而不是跟學習就是跟升學掛鉤\n\n11:01.673 --> 11:28.320\n想问教育部的改革方向当中有没有考虑到说这个废除或是说全面的改制跟委员报告那其实我们在今年度其实有委托我们的一个研究团队指出来其实我们大学班是这个保守会学吗对是我们相关的那个研究室指出来其实老师在审查这些学生的被审资料当中学习历程档案是他们重要的一个参考\n\n11:28.760 --> 11:53.912\n那也可以看出學生他在整個高中學習階段的一個他的一些學習的一些潛力在哪裡那這一份報告我們會後可以提供給委員做參考其實雖然高中端有在老師我們也有調查到說您說的沒有錯這個是參考非常好但是既然他是參考就應該不要再算在他的升學裡面的積分部長您的想法呢\n\n11:54.687 --> 12:15.227\n跟委員報告其實學習歷程檔案是配合108年的課綱的一個實施是但是跟教學的跟升學掛鉤這樣是好的嗎那我們在學生的審查資料當中學生可以把這一份讓學生可以充分的展現自己在老師審查的時候可以讓他們有一個審查的依據當時的一個資料\n\n12:16.588 --> 12:26.921\n對神殺依據但是如果把它計分其實就是一個比較可惜的會浪費了很多的上力而且人生你要做的話就是效果應該呈現但是計分時的要去考慮要不要放進來的\n\n12:28.139 --> 12:48.517\n謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們內部也在跟大學端在做一些討論在研議就是說我們肯定學習歷程當然對一個學生他整個學習是的包括他整個生涯發展的一些想像怎麼樣去連結但是要不要變成一個必要的一個畢業的還是\n\n12:50.834 --> 13:10.715\n尊重各大学各系所里边的一些他们自己来规范我想我们内部事实上也在做这样的一个讨论是不是有一个大概半年之内在下一次之前有一个帮忙我想我们跟大学端里边有一个更积极的讨论的一个结果我想我们会来做一个说明\n\n13:11.115 --> 13:35.865\n好我現在最後一個議題很快就是在教師方的議題因為我自己也要遵守自己的規則教師方問題剛才好幾位的委員都已經提到那最重要的我針對的會是在因為全教總有他們的一個訴求那教育部長您也都應該聽到啦在這邊的我想要特別強調是在待遇的合理上面是一個整體看的有這個本心啦\n\n13:36.605 --> 14:02.404\n教導師費行政佳績特殊偏遠終點費那終點費其實是針對的是代理教師跟兼任教師可能是比較重視的那這些部分的話我想剛出國教盟這邊或是全教總統提到的是一個行政職務的佳績這邊就經常教育部裡面就非常多的一個一個意見說要公教一體來把它駁回啦那這個部分我想要請教的是是不是因為\n\n14:03.445 --> 14:18.446\n叫部長跟國教署彭署長你也知道了教師荒這個問題已經讓了包括失陪層都不願意進入到就算是拿到證照他也不願意去到教師的現場去了所以這邊的待遇合理的部分包括\n\n14:19.587 --> 14:43.540\n跟所謂的消費者指數的差異性都是差很大那這一部分我想要請部長這是真的非常重要因為沒有好的教師就沒有好的人才培育那我們又是以特別以人才的培育的優秀人才為主的這樣一個國家就是可以部長您是不是可以承諾針對這邊的教師的待遇合理的部分這麼多項在部分做一下的一個在\n\n14:44.840 --> 15:04.971\n在半年之內做一個評估報告或是在一定時間內做一個評估報告必須跟大家大眾公布感謝委員的一個關心怎麼樣讓老師能夠穩定而且對教育工作的一個價值的一個肯定事實上委員所關心的是教育部一直把它列為我們一個重點那當然\n\n15:05.851 --> 15:21.293\n我想我们这个方向那个重点那什么时间你不能够旷日费时明年等下在一年之后又出现了我必须要跟我们讲就是说我们在定定很多方式的时候它一定是从整体的一个国家的一个各个行业领域的一个考量\n\n15:21.693 --> 15:36.779\n但是他一定是怎麼樣提升老師的待遇合理的一個待遇我想這是我們你要應該要提供一個時間點例如說在半年之內好不好半年之內我們先提供一個評估報告沒有說要做什麼但是先出評估報告出來可以嗎可以\n\n15:37.119 --> 16:06.046\n可以那另外一部分就是在退休的部分現在看到的所得替代率在軍人部分已經調到80%警校這邊因為有這樣的再如果撥補下去也大概80%那可是老師這部分60%這又是很大的部分想要請問在如果公教人員退休條例的修正這部分雖然是可能是全序部這邊要進行那教育部您的部長您作為教師的這個領域教育界的這個大家長您的探訪隊隊退休只要60%\n\n16:07.406 --> 16:30.468\n你的看法是如何我老師的許多的待遇包含退休我當然是全力這個樂觀其成也會這個支持那當然這裡邊誠如剛才委員所講的他有許多的這些制度我們當然一定會在關鍵時刻表達我們的立場那當然是國家的一個整體來看他當然有一定的一個整體上的一些規劃\n\n16:32.170 --> 16:45.042\n我想您是教育部長應該表現出來一個支持挺教師的態度那至於整個桌下預算怎麼等等的算是行政院的考量嗎是說您是挺教師的嘛對不對待遇再提開好謝謝部長好謝謝昭緯謝謝主席謝謝蘇編昭緯質詢部長請回座\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.366,"end":17.617,"text":"好就這樣子好就先離席接下來請劉書斌召委質詢有請鄭部長請鄭部長"},{"start":35.541,"end":57.014,"text":"今天跟你要討論的是關於有學校退場的議題我們看到的是在暑假期間有三個苗栗的高中或高職還有一個台南的高職還有彰化的各個高職的學校他退場那我們就要關心的是"},{"start":58.286,"end":73.879,"text":"學生的權益跟校地的預計何時來規劃還包括的是後續的時程是如何進行還是否會依照公益性的原則回歸教育用途來處理那我們現在助理準備的這些資料裡面"},{"start":74.76,"end":96.901,"text":"雖然我們看到的是在學生當中 現在就少數的學生但是學生裡面的授教權跟教師的工作權是很重要的想請問的是部長或者是看到是署長你這邊對於學校的學生的授教權可以看到他現在比較少 但是現在教師的工作權這部分處理的原則是什麼"},{"start":98.715,"end":114.054,"text":"我想跟委員報告事實上學生的受教訓我們一定如果學校退場我們一定會就近的安排包含這一個他可能衍生出的交通費我們大概在整個退場的機制裡面都會這一個對學生可以一些協助"},{"start":114.494,"end":134.201,"text":"那另外老師的一些他的一個工作權或者他的一個薪資上所有的東西我們事實上以這幾年來我們在私校退場都有一個非常標準的SOP處理的機制我想怎麼樣去確保確保老師的一個權益好 這個SOP就請部長之後就給本辦公室"},{"start":137.822,"end":166.778,"text":"那另外更重要的是校地的問題齁我們看到的是有幾個在撕苗栗的跟彰化的部分你們教育部有注意到說他必須要不得做私用嘛他有些長照啦或者是要做養生的你們把他補助啦那算是好事情齁但是時程上面現在請問大概這些什麼時候校地這邊要怎麼樣的時間性或大概多久會處理完有沒有跟地方政府或是跨部會做協調這在你們報告當中有呈現出來了"},{"start":167.498,"end":187.096,"text":"好跟委員報告針對私校退場之後他的校地在完成解散清算之後他才有辦法去做校地的處理那行政院有組成一個針對退場學校校地的使用那會先徵詢各部會"},{"start":188.577,"end":214.716,"text":"看有没有部会有需要这样的校地来做公务使用以大专校院来讲已经有非常多的部会跟县市政府来这部分就是说有一个结算现在也还没到所谓的结算的部分所以还没有进行那大概就可以知道说现在有这些的一个几种的处理方式我们看到的教育部这边是不是可以承诺他必须都是为教育公益为优先考量是能做这样的承诺呢"},{"start":215.296,"end":228.133,"text":"而以公益优先这个是没有问题一定是公用的那至于这个公用是不是在教育方面或是在例如说卫福部它可能有"},{"start":230.186,"end":256.44,"text":"長照的需求經濟部有產業人才培育的需求等等那這個就看承接的部會好 這部會有注意到這個公益我覺得教育部或政府有這樣的承諾是好事情我們現在看到的是明道大學我想應該同樣是這個問題 他們沒有做清算嘛是不是這樣子 好 那另外的包括的是在清大這邊我們看到是有這樣的發展是好事情在根據中華大學的部分"},{"start":257.02,"end":280.151,"text":"那他還有老師喔所以這邊要特別要注意到老師這邊我想這個請教育部這邊的後來這邊就繼續在追蹤他做下報告好謝謝那我們繼續再往下看我潮池化的問題不只是涉及到現在要退場的就是包括之中看到的是依照這個全國私立學校產業工會的分析當中未來大家看這個表"},{"start":281.051,"end":293.288,"text":"現在是一個低潮啦但是下一次的時候呢會跟到124年的時候從現在的一般的17萬到14萬多那請問一下教育部這邊有什麼樣的規劃嗎針對這樣的情況"},{"start":297.787,"end":316.929,"text":"那跟委員報告那針對整個少子女化的這樣的一個狀況當然這個是一個不可逆除了說國內聲援的一個持續我們透過行政院的少子女化專案辦公室來增加國內的請問一下是不是只能只有退場"},{"start":317.99,"end":318.991,"text":"是 他當然可以轉型"},{"start":347.99,"end":373.448,"text":"像长照这些体系而包括更重要的是在于包括像AI或者是更重要的大概医疗的部分等等的有这个考虑吗有 跟我们报告其实这几年政府对于技职教育的资源投入其实是非常的多所以我们对于整个技职校院的一个设备配合国家5加2的产业发展"},{"start":374.348,"end":394.449,"text":"我们有建了很多的一个人才培育基地那像今年我们又针对AI百工百业AI人才的培育那我们也提供我们的学校相关的设备针对像有些进入他从小中学他进入到高职的时候其实在国中结束就有一个很重要这个宣传够吗"},{"start":395.91,"end":417.706,"text":"現場可能都沒有聽到這樣的聲音中等學校這部分我想國教署這邊也是有一些的計畫來推動那我剛跟報告的是記專的部分跟委員報告感謝委員關心因為確實少子化一定會對高校產生一定的衝擊可是我也利用這個在這一年來我也跟我們大學的校長做一個觀念的分享"},{"start":418.908,"end":440.064,"text":"我們不要少子化如果它是一個客觀的一個事實除了我們產業需求我們引進所謂的這個僑外生以外來豐富我們的這個產業的需求人才的培育另外還有一個就是從終身學習的觀點來看為什麼我們那麼多的大學150幾所大學每一個都在想18"},{"start":441.832,"end":464.947,"text":"所以那一個所謂的15萬未來15萬或者14萬的學生我們能不能想從終身學習產業上的一些不斷的科技的發展30歲以後他應該隨時能夠讓他有機會回到大學也就是說我們未來的招生大學的經營不應該只在想18歲而是你要想怎麼樣去把自己"},{"start":465.327,"end":479.955,"text":"部長你說得很好但是很重要的是如果人才一直少像應該有做院裡面要做所謂的跨部會的讓人才的能夠或是人生育率能夠再提升這是非常重要這當然是另外一個對人口的一個政策上的一個好我知道政府"},{"start":480.535,"end":503.364,"text":"部長你有這樣一個宣示是說要終身學習是也在做也是蠻好的我們繼續下面看一個問題在學習歷程上面看到的是很大的一個這是造成在暑假當中一個很大的新聞那有一個造假之後呢他就重新透過分科測驗裡面就進來了那你看到的時候想問教育部對於學習歷程造假這個問題發現到這個制度跟運作有什麼問題"},{"start":504.304,"end":523.864,"text":"包括更重要是我們看到的是有團體喔他提到的是他說浪費很大長大的資源事實上有1.5萬份的是無人審閱那教室的疲於應付還有造假是難以查核因為你既然做這部分就很重要去查核可是更重要是請問教育部裡面的在大學大考中心裡面所"},{"start":525.157,"end":544.019,"text":"學歷 學習歷程他的目的應該是要作為讓他去瞭解這個考試瞭解整個學習的甚至透過自己的生涯的規劃嘛 對吧那這個情況我們想問的是可是在這種情況之下你教育部問到的他看到你什麼問題呢"},{"start":547.834,"end":576.526,"text":"学习历程档案的这个部分就大学端来讲它确实如同刚才委员所说的是在学生这些老师在审查学生的一个过程中看他学习的整个过程所以我们也透过了相关的一个跟高中端以及大学端的一个讨论希望能够未来再针对学习历程档案怎么样更符合检视出来是这个学生所如实表现的这个部分也有做了一些精进的一个探讨"},{"start":577.066,"end":592.419,"text":"你們有做查核嗎我們目前是用宣導的形式來鼓勵高中端的學生在填寫這個學生歷程檔案的時候要如實填寫這個部分我們有加強宣導我們也有印製手冊來給這些學生做參考"},{"start":592.839,"end":618.679,"text":"那在高中端的部分我想国教署这边也有在老师的一个教导学生上面的部分辅导学生的部分也有做相关的一个改进好这个部分我们看到的是其实这个是国教盟这边他提出来这部分他造成了很多的一个成果没办法展现而且学生的这个学习效果他的就是"},{"start":619.479,"end":631.483,"text":"並沒有說這麼樣的如實去呈現然後甚至是造成家庭背景到校別的差異很大那最重要的是說他們提供的建議是說如果你是把它跟生學的考試結合在一起的時候是一個大的問題"},{"start":636.445,"end":660.853,"text":"如果本身的目的是要讓大家可以知道這樣的一個學習認識重要的重視到學習的效果等等的這部分請問教育部這邊的一些改革方因為你剛所說的要去查核或是說學倫的一個宣導等等都是好事情可是這部分還是沒有辦法必須要回歸到學習歷程當中很核心的部分他就是要重視他自己學習而不是跟學習就是跟升學掛鉤"},{"start":661.673,"end":688.32,"text":"想问教育部的改革方向当中有没有考虑到说这个废除或是说全面的改制跟委员报告那其实我们在今年度其实有委托我们的一个研究团队指出来其实我们大学班是这个保守会学吗对是我们相关的那个研究室指出来其实老师在审查这些学生的被审资料当中学习历程档案是他们重要的一个参考"},{"start":688.76,"end":713.912,"text":"那也可以看出學生他在整個高中學習階段的一個他的一些學習的一些潛力在哪裡那這一份報告我們會後可以提供給委員做參考其實雖然高中端有在老師我們也有調查到說您說的沒有錯這個是參考非常好但是既然他是參考就應該不要再算在他的升學裡面的積分部長您的想法呢"},{"start":714.687,"end":735.227,"text":"跟委員報告其實學習歷程檔案是配合108年的課綱的一個實施是 但是跟教學的跟升學掛鉤這樣是好的嗎那我們在學生的審查資料當中學生可以把這一份讓學生可以充分的展現自己在老師審查的時候可以讓他們有一個審查的依據當時的一個資料"},{"start":736.588,"end":746.921,"text":"對 神殺 依據 但是如果把它計分其實就是一個比較可惜的會浪費了很多的上力 而且 人生你要做的話就是效果應該呈現 但是計分時的要去考慮要不要放進來的"},{"start":748.139,"end":768.517,"text":"謝謝委員的一個關心確實我們內部也在跟大學端在做一些討論在研議就是說我們肯定學習歷程當然對一個學生他整個學習是的包括他整個生涯發展的一些想像怎麼樣去連結但是要不要變成一個必要的一個畢業的還是"},{"start":770.834,"end":790.715,"text":"尊重各大学各系所里边的一些他们自己来规范我想我们内部事实上也在做这样的一个讨论是不是有一个大概半年之内在下一次之前有一个帮忙我想我们跟大学端里边有一个更积极的讨论的一个结果我想我们会来做一个说明"},{"start":791.115,"end":815.865,"text":"好 我現在最後一個議題很快就是在教師方的議題因為我自己也要遵守自己的規則教師方問題剛才好幾位的委員都已經提到那最重要的我針對的會是在因為全教總有他們的一個訴求那教育部長您也都應該聽到啦在這邊的 我想要特別強調是在待遇的合理上面是一個整體看的有這個本心啦"},{"start":816.605,"end":842.404,"text":"教導師費 行政佳績 特殊偏遠 終點費那終點費其實是針對的是代理教師跟兼任教師可能是比較重視的那這些部分的話 我想剛出國教盟這邊或是全教總統提到的是一個行政職務的佳績這邊就經常教育部裡面就非常多的一個一個意見說要公教一體來把它駁回啦那這個部分我想要請教的是是不是因為"},{"start":843.445,"end":858.446,"text":"叫部長跟國教署彭署長你也知道了教師荒這個問題已經讓了包括失陪層都不願意進入到就算是拿到證照他也不願意去到教師的現場去了所以這邊的待遇合理的部分包括"},{"start":859.587,"end":883.54,"text":"跟所謂的消費者指數的差異性都是差很大那這一部分我想要請部長這是真的非常重要因為沒有好的教師就沒有好的人才培育那我們又是以特別以人才的培育的優秀人才為主的這樣一個國家就是可以部長您是不是可以承諾針對這邊的教師的待遇合理的部分這麼多項在部分做一下的一個在"},{"start":884.84,"end":904.971,"text":"在半年之內做一個評估報告或是在一定時間內做一個評估報告必須跟大家大眾公布感謝委員的一個關心怎麼樣讓老師能夠穩定而且對教育工作的一個價值的一個肯定事實上委員所關心的是教育部一直把它列為我們一個重點那當然"},{"start":905.851,"end":921.293,"text":"我想我们这个方向那个重点那什么时间你不能够旷日费时明年等下在一年之后又出现了我必须要跟我们讲就是说我们在定定很多方式的时候它一定是从整体的一个国家的一个各个行业领域的一个考量"},{"start":921.693,"end":936.779,"text":"但是他一定是怎麼樣提升老師的待遇合理的一個待遇我想這是我們你要應該要提供一個時間點例如說在半年之內好不好半年之內我們先提供一個評估報告沒有說要做什麼但是先出評估報告出來可以嗎可以"},{"start":937.119,"end":966.046,"text":"可以 那另外一部分就是在退休的部分現在看到的所得替代率在軍人部分已經調到80%警校這邊因為有這樣的再如果撥補下去也大概80%那可是老師這部分60%這又是很大的部分想要請問在如果公教人員退休條例的修正這部分雖然是可能是全序部這邊要進行那教育部您的部長您作為教師的這個領域教育界的這個大家長您的探訪隊隊退休只要60%"},{"start":967.406,"end":990.468,"text":"你的看法是如何我老師的許多的待遇包含退休我當然是全力這個樂觀其成也會這個支持那當然這裡邊誠如剛才委員所講的他有許多的這些制度我們當然一定會在關鍵時刻表達我們的立場那當然是國家的一個整體來看他當然有一定的一個整體上的一些規劃"},{"start":992.17,"end":1005.042,"text":"我想 您是教育部長 應該表現出來一個支持挺教師的態度那至於整個桌下預算怎麼等等的 算是行政院的考量嗎是說您是挺教師的嘛 對不對待遇再提開 好 謝謝部長好 謝謝昭緯 謝謝主席謝謝蘇編昭緯質詢 部長請回座"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":764,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（12時7分）有請鄭部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：召委好。"],["劉委員書彬：部長好。今天要跟你討論的是關於學校退場的議題，我們看到在暑假期間有3所苗栗的高中職，還有1所臺南的高職、1所彰化的高職學校退場，我們關心的是學生的權益、校地預計何時規劃以及後續的時程如何進行，還有就是是否會依照公益性的原則，回歸教育用途處理。在助理準備的這些資料裡面，雖然我們現在看到的學生數都是少數，但是學生的受教權跟教師的工作權是很重要的。想請問部長或者是署長，對於校內學生的受教權，我們可以看到現在的人數是比較少的，但是在教師的工作權這部分，你們處理的原則是什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，對於學生的受教權，若有學校退場，我們一定會就近安排，包含他可能衍生出的交通費，在整個退場的機制裡面，我們大概都會對學生給予一些協助。另外是老師的工作權或者是薪資，事實上以這幾年來看，我們在私校退場部分都有一個非常標準的SOP處理機制，確保老師工作權的權益。"],["劉委員書彬：這個SOP，就請部長之後給本辦公室。","另外，更重要的是校地的問題，我們看到的是有幾個在苗栗跟彰化的部分，教育部有注意到必須不得將其轉為私用，比如做長照或者是做養生的，你們給予補助，那還算是好事情，但是時程上面，請問校地在時間上大概多久會處理完？有沒有跟地方政府或是跨部會做協調？這在你們報告當中呈現出來了。"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，針對私校退場之後，它的校地在完成解散清算之後，才有辦法去做校地的處理。行政院有組成一個針對退場學校校地的使用，會先徵詢各部會，看有沒有部會需要這樣的校地做公務使用。以大專校院來講，已經有非常多的部會或縣市政府……"],["劉委員書彬：好，那我知道了，這部分就是有談到所謂結算的部分嘛！還沒有進行？"],["楊司長玉惠：是。"],["劉委員書彬：好，那大概就可以知道現在有這幾種處理方式啦！那教育部是不是可以承諾，它必須都是以教育公益為優先考量？是不是能做這樣的承諾呢？"],["楊司長玉惠：以公益優先是沒有問題，一定是公用的，至於這個公用是不是在教育方面，或是例如衛福部可能有長照的需求，經濟部有產業人才培育的需求等等，這個就看承接的部會。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這部分有注意到公益，我覺得教育部或政府有這樣的承諾是好事情。","我們現在看到的是明道大學，我想應該同樣是這個問題，他們還沒有清算嘛！是不是這樣子？另外包括清大對中華大學的規劃，我們看到有這樣的發展是好事情。但還有老師喔！所以這邊特別要注意到老師這部分，我想這個教育部就繼續再追蹤做一下報告，謝謝。","我們繼續再往下看，少子化的問題不只是涉及到現在已經要退場的，依照全國私立學校產業工會的分析，大家看這個表，現在是一個低潮，但是到129年的時候，學生數會從現在的17萬掉到十四萬多，請問一下教育部針對這樣的情況有什麼樣的規劃嗎？"],["楊司長玉惠：跟委員報告，針對少子女化這樣的狀況，當然是不可逆，除了我們持續透過行政院少子女化專案辦公室增加國內生員的……"],["劉委員書彬：請問一下是不是只有退場？"],["楊司長玉惠：是，它當然可以轉……"],["劉委員書彬：是只能退場，現在是人數少，可是有沒有機會是質上面的提升？我們現在看到教育部招了國外的學生進來，這是好事情，包括新南向專班等等。可是學校的這部分，好像只針對外國學生有利，但是本國學生的部分，是不是有增加像在私校技職體系當中的考量，讓他們配合到不是只有像長照這些體系，更重要的是在於包括像AI或者是醫療的部分等等。有這個考慮嗎？"],["楊司長玉惠：有，跟委員報告，這幾年政府對於技職教育的資源投入其實非常多，我們對於整個技職校院的設備，配合國家5+2的產業發展，我們有建了很多的人才培育基地。像今年我們又針對百工百業AI人才的培育，也提供我們的學校相關設備……"],["劉委員書彬：你這個宣傳夠嗎？針對像有些從中學進入到高職的時候，其實在國中結束就很重要，這個宣傳夠嗎？現場可能都沒有聽到這樣的聲音。"],["楊司長玉惠：中等學校這部分我想國教署這邊也是有一些計畫來推動，我剛剛報告的是技專的部分。"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，感謝委員關心，確實少子化一定會對高教產生的衝擊，可是在這一年來，我也跟我們大學的校長做觀念的分享。少子化如果是客觀的事實，除了引進僑外生來豐富我們產業的需求、人才的培育；另外還從終身學習的觀點來看，為什麼我們那麼多的大學、一百五十幾所的大學，都在想那些18歲所謂未來15萬或者14萬的學生？我們能不能從終身學習的角度思考產業上一些不斷的科技發展？30歲以後應該隨時能夠讓他有機會回到大學，也就是說我們未來的招生、大學的經營，不應該只在想18歲，而是要想怎麼樣去把自己……"],["劉委員書彬：好，部長說得很好，但是很重要的是如果人才一直少，我想院裡面要做所謂跨部會的政策，讓人才或是生育率能夠提升，這是非常重要的，這是國安問題。"],["鄭部長英耀：對，人口政策上的一個……"],["劉委員書彬：好，我知道部長有這樣的宣示，是終身學習，這樣做也是蠻好的。","我們繼續看另一個問題，在學習歷程的部分我們看到的是在暑假當中有一個很大的新聞，經過造假的事件之後，他重新透過分科測驗進來了。想問教育部，從學習歷程造假這件事發現這個制度跟運作有什麼問題？更重要的是我們看到有團體提到浪費很龐大的資源，事實上有1.5萬份是無人審閱，教師疲於應付，還有造假難以查核。你既然做這個部分，很重要的就是要去查核，更重要的是，教育部大考中心採用學習歷程的目的，應該是作為讓他去了解這個考試、了解整個學習，甚至是自己生涯的規劃嘛！對吧？我想問的是在這種情況之下，教育部看到什麼問題呢？"],["廖司長高賢：學習歷程檔案的這個部分，就大學端來講，確實如同剛才委員所說的，是這些老師在審查學生的過程中，看他學習的整個過程，所以我們也透過相關跟高中端以及大學端的討論，希望能夠針對學習歷程檔案未來怎麼樣更符合檢視出來是這個學生如實表現的部分，也有做了一些精進的探討。"],["劉委員書彬：你們有查核嗎？"],["廖司長高賢：我們目前是用宣導的形式鼓勵高中端的學生，在填寫學習歷程檔案的時候要如實填寫，這個部分我們有加強宣導，也有印製手冊給這些學生參考。在高中端的部分，我想國教署在老師教導學生、輔導學生的部分也有做相關的改進。"],["劉委員書彬：好，我們看到國教盟提出來的，這部分造成很多的成果沒辦法展現，而且學生的學習效果並沒有這麼樣如實呈現，甚至有家庭背景影響、校別等的差異。他們提供的建議是，如果你把它跟升學考試結合在一起的時候，是一個大的問題，它本身的目的是要讓大家可以重視學習的效果等等，這部分請問教育部有沒有一些改革方案？你剛剛所說的要去查核或是學倫的宣導等等都是好事情，可是這部分還是必須回歸學習歷程當中很核心的部分，就是要重視他自己學習，而不是跟升學掛鈎。想問教育部的改革方向當中，有沒有考慮到廢除或是全面改制？"],["廖司長高賢：跟委員報告，我們今年有委託一個研究團隊，他們指出其實我們大學……"],["劉委員書彬：是這個嗎？「作伙學」嗎？"],["廖司長高賢：是，相關的研究指出，其實老師在審查這些學生的備審資料當中，學習歷程檔案是他們重要的一個參考，也可以看出學生在整個高中學習階段的一些學習潛力在哪裡。這一份報告我們會後可以提供給委員參考。雖然高中端也調查到說……"],["劉委員書彬：對，您說的沒有錯，這個是參考，非常好，但是既然它是參考，就應該不要算在升學的計分裡面。部長的想法呢？"],["廖司長高賢：跟委員報告，其實學習歷程檔案是配合108年課綱的實施，來讓……"],["劉委員書彬：是，但是跟升學掛鈎這樣是好的嗎？"],["廖司長高賢：在學生的審查資料當中，學生可以充分展現自己，老師審查的時候可以讓他們有一個審查的依據。當時的……"],["劉委員書彬：對，審查依據，但是如果把它計分其實就比較可惜了，會浪費很多的人力，而且學生要做的話就是效果應該呈現，但是計分要去考慮要不要放進來。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的關心，確實我們內部也在跟大學端做一些討論和研議，我們肯定學習歷程檔案對一個學生整個學習紀錄，包含他整個生涯發展的一些想像，怎麼樣去連結，但是要不要變成必備的一個要件，還是尊重各大學、各系所自己的規範。我們內部事實上也在做這樣的討論，等我們有一個……"],["劉委員書彬：是不是大概半年之內，再下一次之前有個方法？"],["鄭部長英耀：等跟大學端有一個更積極的討論結果，我想我們會來說明。"],["劉委員書彬：好。現在最後一個議題，很快，就是教師荒的議題，因為我也要遵守自己的規則。教師荒的問題剛才好幾位委員都已經提到，最重要的，我針對的會是在……因為全教總有他們的訴求，教育部長您也都應該聽到了，我想要特別強調的是在待遇的合理上面，整體看有本薪、導師費、行政加給、特殊、偏遠、鐘點費，鐘點費可能是在代理教師跟兼任教師方面要比較重視的。這些部分的話我想當初國教盟或是全教總都提到的是行政職務的加給，就已經讓教育部有非常多的意見，都說應該以公教一體把它駁回啦！這個部分我想要請教的是，因為部長跟國教署彭署長也知道，教師荒這個問題已經讓包括師培生就算是拿到證照，他也不願意進到教師的現場去了。在待遇合理的部分，跟消費者指數的差異性都是差很大。這一部分我想要請部長，這是真的非常重要，因為沒有好的教師就沒有好的人才培育，我們又是特別以培育優秀人才為主的國家。部長是不是可以承諾，針對教師待遇合理的部分，這邊這麼多項，在半年或是在一定時間之內做一個評估報告並跟大眾公布？"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的關心，怎麼樣讓老師能夠穩定而且對教育工作價值肯定，事實上委員所關心的事，教育部一直把它列為重點。當然我想我們這個方向……"],["劉委員書彬：重點是什麼時間？你不能又曠日廢時，可能再一年之後明年又出現了。"],["鄭部長英耀：我必須要跟委員講，我們在訂定很多方式的時候，一定是從整體國家各個行業領域考量，但是一定是怎麼樣提升老師合理的待遇。我想這是我們……"],["劉委員書彬：你應該要提供一個時間點，例如說在半年之內好不好？半年之內先提供評估報告，沒有說要做什麼，但是先提出評估報告，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以。"],["劉委員書彬：好。另外就是退休的部分，現在看到所得替代率在軍人已經達到80%，警消因為有撥補下去也達到大概80%，可是老師到60%，這又是很大部分。公教人員退休條例的修正這部分雖然可能是銓敘部要進行，想要請問教育部部長，您作為教師領域、教育界的大家長，您對於老師退休所得替代率只到60%而已的看法是如何？"],["鄭部長英耀：老師許多的待遇，包含退休，我當然是樂觀其成，也會支持，當然誠如剛才委員所講的，有許多的制度我們一定會在關鍵時刻表達我們的立場，那當然從國家整體來看……"],["劉委員書彬：是應該要請他們對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：它當然有一定整體上的一些規劃。"],["劉委員書彬：我想您是教育部長，應該表現出支持、挺教師的態度，至於整個國家預算什麼等等是行政院長要考量的。"],["鄭部長英耀：這當然是無庸置疑的。"],["劉委員書彬：你是挺教師的嘛！對不對？待遇要提高。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["劉委員書彬：好。謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝書彬召委質詢，部長請回座。"],["主席（劉委員書彬）：現在請陳瑩委員質詢，時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-22-3","speakers":["劉書彬","柯志恩","吳沛憶","范雲","林沛祥","葛如鈞","葉元之","羅廷瑋","萬美玲","郭昱晴","謝龍介","陳秀寳","陳瑩","林宜瑾","賴惠員","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐富癸","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","林月琴","洪孟楷","林德福","高金素梅","翁曉玲"],"page_start":175,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00005"}}}