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\"扮\", \"start\": 141.577, \"end\": 141.717, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"演\", \"start\": 141.717, \"end\": 141.938, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 141.938, \"end\": 142.078, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 142.078, \"end\": 142.338, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"色\", \"start\": 142.338, \"end\": 142.558, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 142.558, \"end\": 142.798, \"score\": 0.754}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 142.798, \"end\": 143.779, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"撤\", \"start\": 143.779, \"end\": 144.099, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"離\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 144.099, \"end\": 144.219, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 144.219, \"end\": 144.439, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 144.439, \"end\": 144.599, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 144.599, \"end\": 144.659, \"score\": 0.997}, 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 381.608, \"end\": 381.708, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 381.708, \"end\": 382.108, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 382.108, \"end\": 382.268, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 382.268, \"end\": 382.428, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 382.428, \"end\": 382.568, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 382.568, \"end\": 382.588, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,923\n謝謝主席我們有請陳部長我們請陳部長委員好\n\n2\n00:00:16,636 --> 00:00:38,946\n部長好部長這個在災防法裡面有關於這個煙色虎還有土石流的監測其實是農業部的責任那本席就看到在審計部的報告113年他還指出來現在還有19處大規模的崩塌潛勢區存在那這當中我也看到像我的故鄉嘉義縣\n\n3\n00:00:40,386 --> 00:01:02,857\n他也高達有三處那這邊他提出一個問題就是說現在農業部針對這一些大規模崩塌的潛勢區你們的這一些預備的這個撤離的計畫或避難的處所好像準備的計畫都是還不夠周全都有值得改善之處那部長你自己知道嗎這19處你們現在有再積極的改善嗎\n\n4\n00:01:06,407 --> 00:01:32,464\n我跟委員報告就是我們現在統計其實在1745個土石流潛勢區裡面大概有79處不只是19處79處裡面有它的大規模潛勢區的崩塌那土石流可能一旦劃入了以後其實最重要就是它的下游的保全對象的疏散測離的計畫沒錯特別重要的是保全的對象有沒有保全的清澈是然後另外它的疏散的\n\n5\n00:01:33,425 --> 00:01:59,891\n路線然後還有後續的本身的這些疏散收容安置的地方那這個部分我想一旦我們框定了以後我們就會跟後面的保全對象去做有系統的去溝通希望他們能夠建立第一個及早建立保全對象這個是最重要才知道說萬一真的發生了以後因為土石離屋崩塌只有短短的時間就必須要很快這個我想我們會來加強跟中下游的居民來溝通\n\n6\n00:02:01,304 --> 00:02:24,819\n這個部分進一步本期要請教就是說審計部的報告他指出來這19處你們還有待改善那我要問的是事實上從這一次的花蓮花蓮的這個災難當中看到這種複合型的他從上游到河川到最後住宅你認為農業部你們在這邊扮演的角色你們在這個災難撤離的部分你們比較專業還是內政部比較專業\n\n7\n00:02:27,381 --> 00:02:44,173\n你們兩個角色有沒有重疊的地方我想在平常的時候我們針對我們的目標物像映射壺的目標物我們會做一些監測然後監測完了以後我們會根據當地的現在的雨量跟它的溶水量會有一些不同的風險\n\n8\n00:02:45,234 --> 00:03:08,954\n那這個風險如果達到某個程度的時候就會造成下游的影響那我們就會把這個訊息傳給地方政府傳給鄉鎮工作那一旦如果遇到像台方的話就有中央應變中心成立那中央應變中心成立了以後這個資訊就進到應變中心裡面去做資料就內政部會接管大概是用這樣的方式然後做決策以後經過大家討論以後\n\n9\n00:03:09,995 --> 00:03:36,545\n如果是土石流就你自己要從頭負責到尾了按照現在摘方法是這樣子一般土石流發生的部分也是因為有颱風豪雨的部分都會成立應變中心那應變中心有一個疏散測離組那我們提供這樣的一個訊息畫色的黃色或紅色警戒以後那這些區域裡面疏散測離組的就會去開始去針對地方政府他的應變計畫裡面開始去做疏散所以你負責到哪一個階段\n\n10\n00:03:37,145 --> 00:03:51,918\n我們負責就是預警以後預警之後就交出去了可能的疏散範圍的離定以後然後相對的這個資料如果應變中心成立我們提交到應變中心然後根據這個疏散的範圍地方政府會框定人數\n\n11\n00:03:52,679 --> 00:04:18,958\n那現在這個審計部的報告裡面指出來是你後段的你的疏散撤離這一塊其實做的計畫不夠周全那你認為農業部未來有能力繼續督導這一塊嗎還是說在權責上面這一塊內政部他們在這一塊其實很多的災難應變中心包括災防法主管機關都是內政部是不是他們來統整會更好一點\n\n12\n00:04:19,498 --> 00:04:37,751\n我想政府是一體的然後相對的就是當疏散撤離計畫的時候應該是跨部會去做協助跟輔導我剛才說的保全對象疏散換為收容所然後後面可能的醫療所以它是一個跨部會但是相對在應變中心有個疏散撤離組他就會去做統整\n\n13\n00:04:38,783 --> 00:05:01,278\n那這次有統整嗎因為我看不到坦白講這次花蓮我比較看不到是哪一個部會他其實扛起來他作為一個主責機關感覺好像各負責一段但是呢找到一個從頭到尾就是貫徹然後都在指揮然後作證然後把整個問題他都可以統合式處理的看起來就不是很清晰喔\n\n14\n00:05:02,258 --> 00:05:21,409\n據我所了解在這次中央應變中心成立以後那相對的疏散撤離的範圍本身有經過討論不同的專家討論最後框定了那個範圍那框定的範圍疏散撤離組就是內政部的消防組疏散撤離組就通知了所有的縣市政府跟相公所他要根據這個範圍裡面去擬定這些\n\n15\n00:05:24,450 --> 00:05:38,724\n好我今天特别提出来这个问题就是我觉得农业部你有你们的专业这些农产品什么都是你们的专业冻保是你们的专业但是在疏散撤离的部分坦白讲如果要你们扛起所有的责任我觉得是过重了\n\n16\n00:05:39,184 --> 00:06:07,101\n你們監測也是你們的專業所以這一個部分我也希望我會再請教院長我也希望你們回去之後在部會之間可以有更清晰的分工才不會面對複合型災難的時候感覺好像是你們要扛但是事實上後面的蘇珊座位又不是你最專業的部分我覺得這樣做起來會有一些可能要被檢討的空間所以這個部分我覺得各部會的分工現在的相關規定蘇珊撤離的計畫你一定跟實施是相公所\n\n17\n00:06:07,621 --> 00:06:22,588\n但是整個計畫的核定是憲政五在詹媽媽裡面其實想得非常清楚但是你中央要督導嗎對就是協助輔導這樣的方式你是有監督之責嗎中央地方還有鄉鎮公所對啊所以它必須是整個整合在一起我希望這個部分好好來檢討\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5921\t7923\t謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長我們請陳部長委員好\n16636\t38946\t部長好部長這個在災防法裡面有關於這個煙色虎還有土石流的監測其實是農業部的責任那本席就看到在審計部的報告113年他還指出來現在還有19處大規模的崩塌潛勢區存在那這當中我也看到像我的故鄉嘉義縣\n40386\t62857\t他也高達有三處那這邊他提出一個問題就是說現在農業部針對這一些大規模崩塌的潛勢區你們的這一些預備的這個撤離的計畫或避難的處所好像準備的計畫都是還不夠周全都有值得改善之處那部長你自己知道嗎這19處你們現在有再積極的改善嗎\n66407\t92464\t我跟委員報告就是我們現在統計其實在1745個土石流潛勢區裡面大概有79處不只是19處79處裡面有它的大規模潛勢區的崩塌那土石流可能一旦劃入了以後其實最重要就是它的下游的保全對象的疏散測離的計畫沒錯特別重要的是保全的對象有沒有保全的清澈是然後另外它的疏散的\n93425\t119891\t路線然後還有後續的本身的這些疏散收容安置的地方那這個部分我想一旦我們框定了以後我們就會跟後面的保全對象去做有系統的去溝通希望他們能夠建立第一個及早建立保全對象這個是最重要才知道說萬一真的發生了以後因為土石離屋崩塌只有短短的時間就必須要很快這個我想我們會來加強跟中下游的居民來溝通\n121304\t144819\t這個部分進一步本期要請教就是說審計部的報告他指出來這19處你們還有待改善那我要問的是事實上從這一次的花蓮花蓮的這個災難當中看到這種複合型的他從上游到河川到最後住宅你認為農業部你們在這邊扮演的角色你們在這個災難撤離的部分你們比較專業還是內政部比較專業\n147381\t164173\t你們兩個角色有沒有重疊的地方我想在平常的時候我們針對我們的目標物像映射壺的目標物我們會做一些監測然後監測完了以後我們會根據當地的現在的雨量跟它的溶水量會有一些不同的風險\n165234\t188954\t那這個風險如果達到某個程度的時候就會造成下游的影響那我們就會把這個訊息傳給地方政府傳給鄉鎮工作那一旦如果遇到像台方的話就有中央應變中心成立那中央應變中心成立了以後這個資訊就進到應變中心裡面去做資料就內政部會接管大概是用這樣的方式然後做決策以後經過大家討論以後\n189995\t216545\t如果是土石流就你自己要從頭負責到尾了按照現在摘方法是這樣子一般土石流發生的部分也是因為有颱風豪雨的部分都會成立應變中心那應變中心有一個疏散測離組那我們提供這樣的一個訊息畫色的黃色或紅色警戒以後那這些區域裡面疏散測離組的就會去開始去針對地方政府他的應變計畫裡面開始去做疏散所以你負責到哪一個階段\n217145\t231918\t我們負責就是預警以後預警之後就交出去了可能的疏散範圍的離定以後然後相對的這個資料如果應變中心成立我們提交到應變中心然後根據這個疏散的範圍地方政府會框定人數\n232679\t258958\t那現在這個審計部的報告裡面指出來是你後段的你的疏散撤離這一塊其實做的計畫不夠周全那你認為農業部未來有能力繼續督導這一塊嗎還是說在權責上面這一塊內政部他們在這一塊其實很多的災難應變中心包括災防法主管機關都是內政部是不是他們來統整會更好一點\n259498\t277751\t我想政府是一體的然後相對的就是當疏散撤離計畫的時候應該是跨部會去做協助跟輔導我剛才說的保全對象疏散換為收容所然後後面可能的醫療所以它是一個跨部會但是相對在應變中心有個疏散撤離組他就會去做統整\n278783\t301278\t那這次有統整嗎因為我看不到坦白講這次花蓮我比較看不到是哪一個部會他其實扛起來他作為一個主責機關感覺好像各負責一段但是呢找到一個從頭到尾就是貫徹然後都在指揮然後作證然後把整個問題他都可以統合式處理的看起來就不是很清晰喔\n302258\t321409\t據我所了解在這次中央應變中心成立以後那相對的疏散撤離的範圍本身有經過討論不同的專家討論最後框定了那個範圍那框定的範圍疏散撤離組就是內政部的消防組疏散撤離組就通知了所有的縣市政府跟相公所他要根據這個範圍裡面去擬定這些\n324450\t338724\t好 我今天特别提出来这个问题就是我觉得农业部你有你们的专业这些农产品什么都是你们的专业 冻保是你们的专业但是在疏散撤离的部分坦白讲如果要你们扛起所有的责任我觉得是过重了\n339184\t367101\t你們監測也是你們的專業所以這一個部分我也希望我會再請教院長我也希望你們回去之後在部會之間可以有更清晰的分工才不會面對複合型災難的時候感覺好像是你們要扛但是事實上後面的蘇珊座位又不是你最專業的部分我覺得這樣做起來會有一些可能要被檢討的空間所以這個部分我覺得各部會的分工現在的相關規定蘇珊撤離的計畫你一定跟實施是相公所\n367621\t382588\t但是整個計畫的核定是憲政五在詹媽媽裡面其實想得非常清楚但是你中央要督導嗎對 就是協助輔導這樣的方式你是有監督之責嗎中央地方還有鄉鎮公所對啊 所以它必須是整個整合在一起我希望這個部分好好來檢討\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長我們請陳部長委員好\n部長好部長這個在災防法裡面有關於這個煙色虎還有土石流的監測其實是農業部的責任那本席就看到在審計部的報告113年他還指出來現在還有19處大規模的崩塌潛勢區存在那這當中我也看到像我的故鄉嘉義縣\n他也高達有三處那這邊他提出一個問題就是說現在農業部針對這一些大規模崩塌的潛勢區你們的這一些預備的這個撤離的計畫或避難的處所好像準備的計畫都是還不夠周全都有值得改善之處那部長你自己知道嗎這19處你們現在有再積極的改善嗎\n我跟委員報告就是我們現在統計其實在1745個土石流潛勢區裡面大概有79處不只是19處79處裡面有它的大規模潛勢區的崩塌那土石流可能一旦劃入了以後其實最重要就是它的下游的保全對象的疏散測離的計畫沒錯特別重要的是保全的對象有沒有保全的清澈是然後另外它的疏散的\n路線然後還有後續的本身的這些疏散收容安置的地方那這個部分我想一旦我們框定了以後我們就會跟後面的保全對象去做有系統的去溝通希望他們能夠建立第一個及早建立保全對象這個是最重要才知道說萬一真的發生了以後因為土石離屋崩塌只有短短的時間就必須要很快這個我想我們會來加強跟中下游的居民來溝通\n這個部分進一步本期要請教就是說審計部的報告他指出來這19處你們還有待改善那我要問的是事實上從這一次的花蓮花蓮的這個災難當中看到這種複合型的他從上游到河川到最後住宅你認為農業部你們在這邊扮演的角色你們在這個災難撤離的部分你們比較專業還是內政部比較專業\n你們兩個角色有沒有重疊的地方我想在平常的時候我們針對我們的目標物像映射壺的目標物我們會做一些監測然後監測完了以後我們會根據當地的現在的雨量跟它的溶水量會有一些不同的風險\n那這個風險如果達到某個程度的時候就會造成下游的影響那我們就會把這個訊息傳給地方政府傳給鄉鎮工作那一旦如果遇到像台方的話就有中央應變中心成立那中央應變中心成立了以後這個資訊就進到應變中心裡面去做資料就內政部會接管大概是用這樣的方式然後做決策以後經過大家討論以後\n如果是土石流就你自己要從頭負責到尾了按照現在摘方法是這樣子一般土石流發生的部分也是因為有颱風豪雨的部分都會成立應變中心那應變中心有一個疏散測離組那我們提供這樣的一個訊息畫色的黃色或紅色警戒以後那這些區域裡面疏散測離組的就會去開始去針對地方政府他的應變計畫裡面開始去做疏散所以你負責到哪一個階段\n我們負責就是預警以後預警之後就交出去了可能的疏散範圍的離定以後然後相對的這個資料如果應變中心成立我們提交到應變中心然後根據這個疏散的範圍地方政府會框定人數\n那現在這個審計部的報告裡面指出來是你後段的你的疏散撤離這一塊其實做的計畫不夠周全那你認為農業部未來有能力繼續督導這一塊嗎還是說在權責上面這一塊內政部他們在這一塊其實很多的災難應變中心包括災防法主管機關都是內政部是不是他們來統整會更好一點\n我想政府是一體的然後相對的就是當疏散撤離計畫的時候應該是跨部會去做協助跟輔導我剛才說的保全對象疏散換為收容所然後後面可能的醫療所以它是一個跨部會但是相對在應變中心有個疏散撤離組他就會去做統整\n那這次有統整嗎因為我看不到坦白講這次花蓮我比較看不到是哪一個部會他其實扛起來他作為一個主責機關感覺好像各負責一段但是呢找到一個從頭到尾就是貫徹然後都在指揮然後作證然後把整個問題他都可以統合式處理的看起來就不是很清晰喔\n據我所了解在這次中央應變中心成立以後那相對的疏散撤離的範圍本身有經過討論不同的專家討論最後框定了那個範圍那框定的範圍疏散撤離組就是內政部的消防組疏散撤離組就通知了所有的縣市政府跟相公所他要根據這個範圍裡面去擬定這些\n好 我今天特别提出来这个问题就是我觉得农业部你有你们的专业这些农产品什么都是你们的专业 冻保是你们的专业但是在疏散撤离的部分坦白讲如果要你们扛起所有的责任我觉得是过重了\n你們監測也是你們的專業所以這一個部分我也希望我會再請教院長我也希望你們回去之後在部會之間可以有更清晰的分工才不會面對複合型災難的時候感覺好像是你們要扛但是事實上後面的蘇珊座位又不是你最專業的部分我覺得這樣做起來會有一些可能要被檢討的空間所以這個部分我覺得各部會的分工現在的相關規定蘇珊撤離的計畫你一定跟實施是相公所\n但是整個計畫的核定是憲政五在詹媽媽裡面其實想得非常清楚但是你中央要督導嗎對 就是協助輔導這樣的方式你是有監督之責嗎中央地方還有鄉鎮公所對啊 所以它必須是整個整合在一起我希望這個部分好好來檢討\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.921 --> 00:07.923\n謝謝主席我們有請陳部長我們請陳部長委員好\n\n00:16.636 --> 00:38.946\n部長好部長這個在災防法裡面有關於這個煙色虎還有土石流的監測其實是農業部的責任那本席就看到在審計部的報告113年他還指出來現在還有19處大規模的崩塌潛勢區存在那這當中我也看到像我的故鄉嘉義縣\n\n00:40.386 --> 01:02.857\n他也高達有三處那這邊他提出一個問題就是說現在農業部針對這一些大規模崩塌的潛勢區你們的這一些預備的這個撤離的計畫或避難的處所好像準備的計畫都是還不夠周全都有值得改善之處那部長你自己知道嗎這19處你們現在有再積極的改善嗎\n\n01:06.407 --> 01:32.464\n我跟委員報告就是我們現在統計其實在1745個土石流潛勢區裡面大概有79處不只是19處79處裡面有它的大規模潛勢區的崩塌那土石流可能一旦劃入了以後其實最重要就是它的下游的保全對象的疏散測離的計畫沒錯特別重要的是保全的對象有沒有保全的清澈是然後另外它的疏散的\n\n01:33.425 --> 01:59.891\n路線然後還有後續的本身的這些疏散收容安置的地方那這個部分我想一旦我們框定了以後我們就會跟後面的保全對象去做有系統的去溝通希望他們能夠建立第一個及早建立保全對象這個是最重要才知道說萬一真的發生了以後因為土石離屋崩塌只有短短的時間就必須要很快這個我想我們會來加強跟中下游的居民來溝通\n\n02:01.304 --> 02:24.819\n這個部分進一步本期要請教就是說審計部的報告他指出來這19處你們還有待改善那我要問的是事實上從這一次的花蓮花蓮的這個災難當中看到這種複合型的他從上游到河川到最後住宅你認為農業部你們在這邊扮演的角色你們在這個災難撤離的部分你們比較專業還是內政部比較專業\n\n02:27.381 --> 02:44.173\n你們兩個角色有沒有重疊的地方我想在平常的時候我們針對我們的目標物像映射壺的目標物我們會做一些監測然後監測完了以後我們會根據當地的現在的雨量跟它的溶水量會有一些不同的風險\n\n02:45.234 --> 03:08.954\n那這個風險如果達到某個程度的時候就會造成下游的影響那我們就會把這個訊息傳給地方政府傳給鄉鎮工作那一旦如果遇到像台方的話就有中央應變中心成立那中央應變中心成立了以後這個資訊就進到應變中心裡面去做資料就內政部會接管大概是用這樣的方式然後做決策以後經過大家討論以後\n\n03:09.995 --> 03:36.545\n如果是土石流就你自己要從頭負責到尾了按照現在摘方法是這樣子一般土石流發生的部分也是因為有颱風豪雨的部分都會成立應變中心那應變中心有一個疏散測離組那我們提供這樣的一個訊息畫色的黃色或紅色警戒以後那這些區域裡面疏散測離組的就會去開始去針對地方政府他的應變計畫裡面開始去做疏散所以你負責到哪一個階段\n\n03:37.145 --> 03:51.918\n我們負責就是預警以後預警之後就交出去了可能的疏散範圍的離定以後然後相對的這個資料如果應變中心成立我們提交到應變中心然後根據這個疏散的範圍地方政府會框定人數\n\n03:52.679 --> 04:18.958\n那現在這個審計部的報告裡面指出來是你後段的你的疏散撤離這一塊其實做的計畫不夠周全那你認為農業部未來有能力繼續督導這一塊嗎還是說在權責上面這一塊內政部他們在這一塊其實很多的災難應變中心包括災防法主管機關都是內政部是不是他們來統整會更好一點\n\n04:19.498 --> 04:37.751\n我想政府是一體的然後相對的就是當疏散撤離計畫的時候應該是跨部會去做協助跟輔導我剛才說的保全對象疏散換為收容所然後後面可能的醫療所以它是一個跨部會但是相對在應變中心有個疏散撤離組他就會去做統整\n\n04:38.783 --> 05:01.278\n那這次有統整嗎因為我看不到坦白講這次花蓮我比較看不到是哪一個部會他其實扛起來他作為一個主責機關感覺好像各負責一段但是呢找到一個從頭到尾就是貫徹然後都在指揮然後作證然後把整個問題他都可以統合式處理的看起來就不是很清晰喔\n\n05:02.258 --> 05:21.409\n據我所了解在這次中央應變中心成立以後那相對的疏散撤離的範圍本身有經過討論不同的專家討論最後框定了那個範圍那框定的範圍疏散撤離組就是內政部的消防組疏散撤離組就通知了所有的縣市政府跟相公所他要根據這個範圍裡面去擬定這些\n\n05:24.450 --> 05:38.724\n好我今天特别提出来这个问题就是我觉得农业部你有你们的专业这些农产品什么都是你们的专业冻保是你们的专业但是在疏散撤离的部分坦白讲如果要你们扛起所有的责任我觉得是过重了\n\n05:39.184 --> 06:07.101\n你們監測也是你們的專業所以這一個部分我也希望我會再請教院長我也希望你們回去之後在部會之間可以有更清晰的分工才不會面對複合型災難的時候感覺好像是你們要扛但是事實上後面的蘇珊座位又不是你最專業的部分我覺得這樣做起來會有一些可能要被檢討的空間所以這個部分我覺得各部會的分工現在的相關規定蘇珊撤離的計畫你一定跟實施是相公所\n\n06:07.621 --> 06:22.588\n但是整個計畫的核定是憲政五在詹媽媽裡面其實想得非常清楚但是你中央要督導嗎對就是協助輔導這樣的方式你是有監督之責嗎中央地方還有鄉鎮公所對啊所以它必須是整個整合在一起我希望這個部分好好來檢討\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.921,"end":7.923,"text":"謝謝主席 我們有請陳部長我們請陳部長委員好"},{"start":16.636,"end":38.946,"text":"部長好部長這個在災防法裡面有關於這個煙色虎還有土石流的監測其實是農業部的責任那本席就看到在審計部的報告113年他還指出來現在還有19處大規模的崩塌潛勢區存在那這當中我也看到像我的故鄉嘉義縣"},{"start":40.386,"end":62.857,"text":"他也高達有三處那這邊他提出一個問題就是說現在農業部針對這一些大規模崩塌的潛勢區你們的這一些預備的這個撤離的計畫或避難的處所好像準備的計畫都是還不夠周全都有值得改善之處那部長你自己知道嗎這19處你們現在有再積極的改善嗎"},{"start":66.407,"end":92.464,"text":"我跟委員報告就是我們現在統計其實在1745個土石流潛勢區裡面大概有79處不只是19處79處裡面有它的大規模潛勢區的崩塌那土石流可能一旦劃入了以後其實最重要就是它的下游的保全對象的疏散測離的計畫沒錯特別重要的是保全的對象有沒有保全的清澈是然後另外它的疏散的"},{"start":93.425,"end":119.891,"text":"路線然後還有後續的本身的這些疏散收容安置的地方那這個部分我想一旦我們框定了以後我們就會跟後面的保全對象去做有系統的去溝通希望他們能夠建立第一個及早建立保全對象這個是最重要才知道說萬一真的發生了以後因為土石離屋崩塌只有短短的時間就必須要很快這個我想我們會來加強跟中下游的居民來溝通"},{"start":121.304,"end":144.819,"text":"這個部分進一步本期要請教就是說審計部的報告他指出來這19處你們還有待改善那我要問的是事實上從這一次的花蓮花蓮的這個災難當中看到這種複合型的他從上游到河川到最後住宅你認為農業部你們在這邊扮演的角色你們在這個災難撤離的部分你們比較專業還是內政部比較專業"},{"start":147.381,"end":164.173,"text":"你們兩個角色有沒有重疊的地方我想在平常的時候我們針對我們的目標物像映射壺的目標物我們會做一些監測然後監測完了以後我們會根據當地的現在的雨量跟它的溶水量會有一些不同的風險"},{"start":165.234,"end":188.954,"text":"那這個風險如果達到某個程度的時候就會造成下游的影響那我們就會把這個訊息傳給地方政府傳給鄉鎮工作那一旦如果遇到像台方的話就有中央應變中心成立那中央應變中心成立了以後這個資訊就進到應變中心裡面去做資料就內政部會接管大概是用這樣的方式然後做決策以後經過大家討論以後"},{"start":189.995,"end":216.545,"text":"如果是土石流就你自己要從頭負責到尾了按照現在摘方法是這樣子一般土石流發生的部分也是因為有颱風豪雨的部分都會成立應變中心那應變中心有一個疏散測離組那我們提供這樣的一個訊息畫色的黃色或紅色警戒以後那這些區域裡面疏散測離組的就會去開始去針對地方政府他的應變計畫裡面開始去做疏散所以你負責到哪一個階段"},{"start":217.145,"end":231.918,"text":"我們負責就是預警以後預警之後就交出去了可能的疏散範圍的離定以後然後相對的這個資料如果應變中心成立我們提交到應變中心然後根據這個疏散的範圍地方政府會框定人數"},{"start":232.679,"end":258.958,"text":"那現在這個審計部的報告裡面指出來是你後段的你的疏散撤離這一塊其實做的計畫不夠周全那你認為農業部未來有能力繼續督導這一塊嗎還是說在權責上面這一塊內政部他們在這一塊其實很多的災難應變中心包括災防法主管機關都是內政部是不是他們來統整會更好一點"},{"start":259.498,"end":277.751,"text":"我想政府是一體的然後相對的就是當疏散撤離計畫的時候應該是跨部會去做協助跟輔導我剛才說的保全對象疏散換為收容所然後後面可能的醫療所以它是一個跨部會但是相對在應變中心有個疏散撤離組他就會去做統整"},{"start":278.783,"end":301.278,"text":"那這次有統整嗎因為我看不到坦白講這次花蓮我比較看不到是哪一個部會他其實扛起來他作為一個主責機關感覺好像各負責一段但是呢找到一個從頭到尾就是貫徹然後都在指揮然後作證然後把整個問題他都可以統合式處理的看起來就不是很清晰喔"},{"start":302.258,"end":321.409,"text":"據我所了解在這次中央應變中心成立以後那相對的疏散撤離的範圍本身有經過討論不同的專家討論最後框定了那個範圍那框定的範圍疏散撤離組就是內政部的消防組疏散撤離組就通知了所有的縣市政府跟相公所他要根據這個範圍裡面去擬定這些"},{"start":324.45,"end":338.724,"text":"好 我今天特别提出来这个问题就是我觉得农业部你有你们的专业这些农产品什么都是你们的专业 冻保是你们的专业但是在疏散撤离的部分坦白讲如果要你们扛起所有的责任我觉得是过重了"},{"start":339.184,"end":367.101,"text":"你們監測也是你們的專業所以這一個部分我也希望我會再請教院長我也希望你們回去之後在部會之間可以有更清晰的分工才不會面對複合型災難的時候感覺好像是你們要扛但是事實上後面的蘇珊座位又不是你最專業的部分我覺得這樣做起來會有一些可能要被檢討的空間所以這個部分我覺得各部會的分工現在的相關規定蘇珊撤離的計畫你一定跟實施是相公所"},{"start":367.621,"end":382.588,"text":"但是整個計畫的核定是憲政五在詹媽媽裡面其實想得非常清楚但是你中央要督導嗎對 就是協助輔導這樣的方式你是有監督之責嗎中央地方還有鄉鎮公所對啊 所以它必須是整個整合在一起我希望這個部分好好來檢討"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1130,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（12時26分）謝謝主席，有請陳部長。"],["主席：我們請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。部長，在災防法裡面，有關於堰塞湖和土石流的監測，其實是農業部的責任。本席就看到，審計部113年的報告指出，現在還有19處大規模的崩塌潛勢區存在，當中我也看到，像我的故鄉嘉義縣，也高達有3處，這邊提出一個問題，就是說，現在農業部針對這一些大規模崩塌的潛勢區，你們預備撤離的計畫或避難的處所，準備的計畫都還不夠周全，都有值得改善之處，那部長你自己知道嗎？這19處你們現在有在積極地改善嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，根據我們現在的統計，其實在1,745個土石流潛勢區裡面，有79處大規模崩塌的潛勢區，不只是19處，一旦劃入了以後，其實最重要的就是下游的保全對象的疏散撤離的計畫。"],["王委員育敏：沒錯。"],["陳部長駿季：特別重要的是有沒有保全對象的清冊、疏散的路線，還有後續的疏散對象收容安置的地方，這個部分一旦我們框定了以後，我們就會跟後面的保全對象去做有系統的溝通，希望他們能夠及早建立保全對象，這個是最重要的，這樣才知道說，萬一真的發生了崩塌以後，因為土石流崩塌只有短短的時間可以因應，疏散必須要很快。"],["王委員育敏：是啊，那個時間已經變得非常短。"],["陳部長駿季：我們會加強跟中下游的居民來溝通。"],["王委員育敏：這個部分，本席要進一步請教的就是，審計部的報告指出的19處，你們還有待改善，那我要問的是，事實上，從這一次花蓮這個災難當中，我們看到，這種複合型的災難，從河川上游溢流到最後淹沒住宅，你認為你們農業部在這邊扮演的角色，在災難撤離的部分，你們比較專業還是內政部比較專業？你們兩個部會角色有沒有重疊的地方？"],["陳部長駿季：在平常的時候，我們針對我們的目標物，像堰塞湖，我們會做一些監測，然後監測完了以後，根據當地當時的雨量，跟它的容水量，會有一些不同的風險，那這個風險如果達到某個程度的時候，就會造成對下游的影響，那我們就會把這個訊息傳給地方政府，傳給鄉鎮公所，一旦遇到狀況，像颱風的話，就有中央應變中心成立，中央應變中心成立了以後，這個資訊就進到應變中心裡面去做資料的整合。"],["王委員育敏：就內政部會接管，是內政部來督導嘛，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，就會接管，大概就用這樣的方式，然後做決策以後，經過大家討論……"],["王委員育敏：但是如果是土石流，就你自己要從頭負責到尾，按照現在的災防法是這樣子。"],["陳部長駿季：不過一般土石流發生，也是因為有颱風、豪雨，都會成立應變中心，應變中心有一個疏散撤離組，那我們提供這樣的訊息，劃設了黃色或紅色警戒以後，那這些區域裡面的疏散撤離組人員，就會開始去針對地方政府的應變計畫，開始去做疏散。"],["王委員育敏：所以你負責到哪一個階段？"],["陳部長駿季：我們負責的是預警以後……"],["王委員育敏：預警之後就交出去給應變中心？"],["陳部長駿季：疏散範圍釐定以後，如果應變中心成立，我們把資料交給應變中心，然後根據這個疏散的範圍，地方政府會框定人數。"],["王委員育敏：現在審計部的報告指出，後段你的疏散撤離這一塊其實做的計畫不夠周全，那你認為農業部未來有能力繼續督導這一塊嗎？還是說，在權責上面，其實很多的災難應變中心，包括災防法主管機關都是內政部，是不是由他們來統整會更好一點？"],["陳部長駿季：我想政府是一體的，當推動疏散撤離計畫的時候，應該是跨部會去協助跟輔導，我剛才說的保全對象及疏散範圍收容所，包含後面可能的醫療，是一個跨部會的行動，但是在應變中心有一個疏散撤離組，就會去做統整。"],["王委員育敏：那這次有統整嗎？我看不到，坦白講，這次花蓮我比較看不到是哪一個部會扛起作為一個主責機關的責任，感覺好像是各負責一段，但是要找到一個從頭到尾貫徹權責，然後都在指揮、坐鎮，整個問題都可以統合式處理的，看起來就不是很清晰，我希望……"],["陳部長駿季：據我所了解，在這一次中央應變中心成立以後，疏散撤離的範圍，有經過不同的專家討論，最後框定的那個範圍，是疏散撤離組，就是內政部的消防組來決定，疏散撤離組就通知了所有的縣市政府跟鄉公所，他們要根據這個範圍，去擬定對策，儘快提出資料。"],["王委員育敏：我今天特別提出這個問題，就是因為我覺得農業部有你們的專業，農產品是你們的專業，動保是你們的專業，但是在疏散撤離的部分，坦白講，如果要你們扛起所有責任，我覺得是過重。監測也是你的專業，我會再請教院長，我希望你們回去之後，部會之間可以有更清晰的分工，才不會在面對複合型災難的時候，感覺好像是你們要扛，但是事實上後面的疏散作業又不是你最專業的部分，我覺得這樣做起來，會有一些可能要被檢討的空間，所以這個部分我覺得各部會的分工要統一整合。"],["陳部長駿季：根據現在的相關規定，在疏離撤離計畫的擬訂跟實施方面，實施是鄉公所來做，但是整個計畫的核定是縣政府來做，在災防法裡面講的非常清楚。"],["王委員育敏：但是你中央要督導嘛。"],["陳部長駿季：對，就是協助、輔導。"],["王委員育敏：你要負監督之責。"],["陳部長駿季：是三級制，有分中央、地方、鄉鎮公所，是分級的。"],["王委員育敏：對啊，所以必須是整個整合在一起，我希望這個部分好好來檢討。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王育敏委員質詢，謝謝部長。","我們現在請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":174,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-3","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","邱志偉","蔡易餘","鄭天財Sra 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