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161.687, \"text\": \"那針對勞基法第3條還有這個請假規則裡面有不同的價別可是呢它這個針對於競逐不利的部分呢它所要求的就沒有那麼高只能要求說不得扣發這個全刑獎金\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 146.195, \"end\": 146.836, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 146.836, \"end\": 147.016, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 147.016, \"end\": 147.216, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 147.216, \"end\": 148.257, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 148.257, \"end\": 148.977, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"假\", \"start\": 148.977, \"end\": 149.618, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"則\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 149.618, \"end\": 150.298, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 150.298, \"end\": 150.438, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 150.438, \"end\": 150.558, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 690.373, \"end\": 690.493, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"R\", \"start\": 690.493, \"end\": 690.793, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 690.793, \"end\": 691.053, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 691.053, \"end\": 691.614, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 691.614, \"end\": 692.414, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 692.414, \"end\": 693.334, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 693.334, \"end\": 693.774, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 693.774, \"end\": 694.894, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 694.894, \"end\": 694.954, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 694.954, \"end\": 695.134, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 695.134, \"end\": 695.494, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 695.494, \"end\": 696.175, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 696.175, \"end\": 696.295, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 696.295, \"end\": 696.975, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 696.975, \"end\": 697.235, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 697.235, \"end\": 698.055, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 698.055, \"end\": 698.295, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 698.295, \"end\": 698.475, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 698.475, \"end\": 699.015, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"置\", \"start\": 699.015, \"end\": 699.195, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 699.195, \"end\": 699.355, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 699.355, \"end\": 699.455, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 699.455, \"end\": 700.396, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"可\", 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\"華\"}, {\"word\": \"航\", \"start\": 804.452, \"end\": 804.572, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 804.572, \"end\": 804.592, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"種\"}]}, {\"start\": 806.453, \"end\": 829.091, \"text\": \"機長的部分有機長的處理那後艙的空服組員的話依照這個相關規定的手冊的話就是由組員相互確認那事務長要做最後的處理上機前的一個檢查那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議就是說上機前的交互檢查確認組員的身體健康狀況我們可以參考委員的意見再來看看如何來精進他\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 806.453, \"end\": 806.614, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 806.614, \"end\": 806.794, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 806.794, \"end\": 807.414, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 807.414, \"end\": 807.875, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"機\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 807.875, \"end\": 808.195, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 808.195, \"end\": 808.455, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 808.455, \"end\": 808.675, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 827.189, \"end\": 827.269, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 827.269, \"end\": 827.59, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"見\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 827.59, \"end\": 827.85, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 827.85, \"end\": 827.99, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 827.99, \"end\": 828.17, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 828.17, \"end\": 828.33, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 828.33, \"end\": 828.871, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 828.871, \"end\": 829.071, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 829.071, \"end\": 829.091, \"score\": 0.758}]}, {\"start\": 829.811, \"end\": 848.297, \"text\": \"那第二个就是说这个有关紧急医疗的处置的部分因为机上的话如果是其实如果是打MairLink这一些其实是会透过空中查询然后由机组员去做处理那机长是不会去涉及这一些处理的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 829.811, \"end\": 830.371, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": 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0.93}, {\"word\": \"机\", \"start\": 845.196, \"end\": 845.336, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"长\", \"start\": 845.336, \"end\": 846.256, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 846.256, \"end\": 846.456, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 846.456, \"end\": 846.576, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"会\", \"start\": 846.576, \"end\": 846.776, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 846.776, \"end\": 847.016, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 847.016, \"end\": 847.237, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 847.237, \"end\": 847.417, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"这\", \"start\": 847.417, \"end\": 847.557, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 847.557, \"end\": 847.677, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 847.677, \"end\": 847.937, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"处\", \"start\": 847.937, \"end\": 848.117, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 848.117, \"end\": 848.277, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 892.481, \"end\": 893.182, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 893.182, \"end\": 894.282, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 894.282, \"end\": 894.422, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 894.422, \"end\": 894.882, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 894.882, \"end\": 895.302, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 895.302, \"end\": 895.482, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 895.482, \"end\": 895.702, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 895.702, \"end\": 895.842, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 895.842, \"end\": 896.082, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 896.082, \"end\": 896.742, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 896.742, \"end\": 896.882, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"南\", \"start\": 896.882, \"end\": 897.002, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 897.002, \"end\": 897.423, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 897.423, \"end\": 897.643, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"參\"}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 897.643, \"end\": 898.043, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 898.043, \"end\": 898.063, \"score\": 0.255}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 902.406, \"end\": 902.967, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 902.967, \"end\": 903.709, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"局\", \"start\": 903.709, \"end\": 904.37, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 904.37, \"end\": 904.571, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 904.571, \"end\": 906.054, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 906.054, \"end\": 906.455, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 906.455, \"end\": 906.736, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 906.736, \"end\": 906.856, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 906.856, \"end\": 907.056, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 907.056, \"end\": 907.317, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 907.317, \"end\": 907.337, \"score\": 0.999}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:10,003 --> 00:00:13,597\n好謝謝主席我們還是麻煩黃部長來部長\n\n2\n00:00:26,557 --> 00:00:40,351\n你好不好意思都沒有時間讓您稍微喘一口氣喝個水不過因為因應這一次長榮空服員的憾事大家都覺得非常遺憾因為是一個年輕的生命\n\n3\n00:00:41,071 --> 00:00:57,487\n那也激發了社會對於公司管理的線路跟合理性的討論早上很多委員都已經有跟你討論這些事情不過還是從制度上我們必須要來做深入的了解從一個個案來看整體的制度\n\n4\n00:00:57,927 --> 00:01:21,938\n特別是在勞工請假權益的保障還有禁止不利益待遇的強度跟範圍應該怎麼來做處理這部分部長其實也是專家所以就利用這個機會來跟您做就教我相信大家在每天非常繁忙的工作的同時對於如何能夠有好的這些假期的處理\n\n5\n00:01:22,818 --> 00:01:41,195\n讓他的這個整個身心可以有效的回復是非常重要而且是需要大家一起來關注那身為這個勞動部的這個最大的負責人我相信對於這些勞工的請假應該是非常的關注那針對這個勞動的法規我們也了解\n\n6\n00:01:44,318 --> 00:02:03,872\n在勞工請假過程裡面我們目前有不同的法源的規定包括在性平法上面有針對於生理假等等的有做一些相關的安排尤其在禁止不利益的待遇保障上面其實做了非常強烈的規範要求雇主不得拒絕\n\n7\n00:02:05,193 --> 00:02:25,194\n還有在這個接受這樣的這個請求的時候不能夠用其他的方式來讓這樣的請假的美意或者是這些假期的美意得到了影響包括說不能夠當作缺勤而影響獎金考積等等這個是我們可以看到性平工作法裡面第4條對21條做了非常完整的規範\n\n8\n00:02:26,195 --> 00:02:41,687\n那針對勞基法第3條還有這個請假規則裡面有不同的價別可是呢它這個針對於競逐不利的部分呢它所要求的就沒有那麼高只能要求說不得扣發這個全刑獎金\n\n9\n00:02:42,527 --> 00:03:06,241\n那針對於另外的就是以今天這個個案為例他是有生病那生病的時候他需要請假的話那目前針對這個勞基法第13條所看到的就是普通傷病假來做調理那這個部分其實目前並沒有任何有關你禁止不利益的這些保障的部分只有要求說沒有超過30天的話公知責辦發給這樣的這個請假的這個結果所以\n\n10\n00:03:11,324 --> 00:03:29,125\n針對這樣的問題我們覺得似乎從制度上面從這個法條上面我們必須要有重新來省思如何能夠讓這個禁止不利益的免疫可以落實到未來在各方面的請假或者是有下的時候可以提供更好的一些處理模式那我們可以從\n\n11\n00:03:31,107 --> 00:03:47,983\n今年的這個10月10號開始根據目前那總統在健康台灣推動委員會的指示之下所辦理的一個方式就是針對公務人員他可以根據這個規定來請不管家庭照顧假還有增加一個身心調適假\n\n12\n00:03:49,524 --> 00:04:06,453\n每一個人可以每年三天的這個假期那這個部分的美意就在於這個併入試駕的過程裡面他不需要檢護任何證明機關不得拒絕不得不利的部分這個意思就是說對於禁止不利益的這些處分其實是有達到最高的規格\n\n13\n00:04:07,373 --> 00:04:35,532\n所以相歸來講未來勞動部在這方面能不能夠有參考公務人員新這個三天的這個新條市價的政策來提供我們的這個勞工朋友也有相關的這個可行性那當然這個部分可能會有不同的形式比如說這個是要一個新的條市價那還是要從病價裡面去做框出或者是從市價裡面去框出那如果有好的立法技術那這個強度\n\n14\n00:04:37,413 --> 00:04:53,909\n是不是也要如同這個公務人員的保障一樣那到底一年要幾天當然天數少就可以比照公務人員如果天數多相對這個保護強度是不是要有效的調控那這部分不知道部長目前有沒有相關的想法\n\n15\n00:04:55,089 --> 00:05:15,026\n根本說沒有的確這關於這一次的事件也引發了社會對於尤其是病假病假其實相關的權益會不會有一些比較制度性的這個阻礙的這個問題那我想我還是表達幾個部分第一個部分是\n\n16\n00:05:16,767 --> 00:05:42,641\n如果勞工請病假是被雇主拒絕的話我想這就是直接違反勞基法那這就是最高最高世界規模如果高違反人數高或者是清潔嚴重的話是最高就是150萬那第二個是我們其實也在這段時間也是在檢視比方說我們看到比方說像全勤獎金其實在一些法院的判決裡面其實都已經把它視為是勞工工資的一部分\n\n17\n00:05:42,961 --> 00:06:05,949\n那如果是勞工工資的一部分的話那這個勞工請病假就被沒收整個月的這個全勤獎金其實我們認為這是不合理的狀況所以這部分我們也在研議一些用比較制度性的方式來做保障那針對這部分那至於其他的這個不利現在可能在講不利對待的部分因為不利對待的\n\n18\n00:06:07,209 --> 00:06:29,948\n范畴其實蠻大的樣態其實很多那請病假的樣態其實也蠻多的那就其他的部分我想我們也是希望能夠在一個為事情我們的同仁在一個原則然後那這個原則但就是說我們的確是不希望說勞工生病卻要硬撐著不休息這個事情還被\n\n19\n00:06:31,496 --> 00:06:52,226\n公司的制度來做制度性的鼓勵這是這個事情我們也不樂見所以在這個概念下面是不是來檢視我們相對應在病假跟現在被認知為不利對待的這個這個權利上面是不是有再多一點調整的空間不要好像變成我們是\n\n20\n00:06:53,146 --> 00:07:06,902\n都把這種明明該請生病到該請病假了卻還硬撐著上班然後變成是一種對企業付出的一個正面的效益或績效其實我覺得這大概不符合社會的期待甚至也可能未來會製造更多的問題\n\n21\n00:07:08,223 --> 00:07:30,629\n是的確因為社會整個情況在不同的轉變之下如何能夠針對我們老公朋友有更友善的一些做法這個是要麻煩部長這邊持續的關注其實從這個個案裡面我們也知道他在這個上期之前因為有一些身體狀況需要臨時請特休等等的狀況其實是對於如何\n\n22\n00:07:32,050 --> 00:07:45,705\n幫助讓他在請假的過程裡面是更為安心的所以剛剛部長也提到範圍跟強度到底要用到哪裡那這個真的是很需要好好的一個了解跟規範那包括未來如果有類似的狀況臨時請特休\n\n23\n00:07:48,588 --> 00:08:04,942\n我們知道像空服員他們的工作時間剛好是在其他人有假期要去做出國旅遊或是其他安排的時候他們剛好要出行最多事後如果國人假出行以後的調整等等的\n\n24\n00:08:05,622 --> 00:08:24,147\n這個能不能夠也進入到這個這個這樣不利一代的部分可以減到最低還有任何的法定價別是不是都要列入相關的規範這部分可能就是要麻煩部裡面做一些研議那這個研議看能不能在一個月給我們相關的到委員會給相關的報告\n\n25\n00:08:24,795 --> 00:08:53,477\n跟網友說明的確比方說像特休那特休當然就是完全要給付工資而且不能也是一樣這個選擇權完全是在勞工手上只要僱主拒絕的話那這就是就直接違法那剛剛網友講這個狀況或者是講到長榮的狀況那我們會整體的來去做一些評估啦那可是確實我們現在看到長榮的一些狀況我覺得他當然有規範性的問題裡面也有是他們管理文化上面的狀況\n\n26\n00:08:54,978 --> 00:09:01,442\n那這個管理文化的狀況如果沒有辦法再做一些調整的話其實我們也很擔心類似的狀況會\n\n27\n00:09:05,148 --> 00:09:27,606\n會一直有狀況會發生所以這是為什麼我們很希望我們也很支持就是希望公司必須要跟公會真的好好坐下來協商那因為就是應該面對尤其是我們基層的基礎員他很實質的身體上面的安全上面的需求我想這是我們的立場\n\n28\n00:09:28,356 --> 00:09:52,953\n是我相信白宮白夜都有它特別的文化各方面的需求所以這部分就麻煩部裡面持續的來做研議那再過來就是有關於這個目前到底我們有沒有比較完整的數據知道我們這些勞工朋友在使用病假的狀況的調查因為我們發現目前在部裡面有113年勞工生活跟就業狀況調查的報告\n\n29\n00:09:54,534 --> 00:10:21,702\n那這個報這份報告只針對於加班還有這個特別休假情形做相關的這個問卷調查去得到每個勞工他在一年裡面可能在假期上面的運用可是好像沒有病假這個欄位那我們知道現在的這些生活比較緊張或相關的問題所以在未來是不是可以把病假的狀況調查也列為一個每一個年度的這個調查內容\n\n30\n00:10:24,172 --> 00:10:47,430\n因為網友有關心這個事情所以我們有回去看了一下的確現在目前只針對特休那我認為把病假加入到使用狀況調查的一個項目跟欄位裡面我想我們這部分我覺得我們應該是可以來做的好那就麻煩這一部分你能夠把它加強進來麻煩這個部長先回座休息最後一個問題我來請教一下民航局何局長\n\n31\n00:10:51,502 --> 00:11:11,569\n如果能夠改善我們這個像今天碰到的這個困境因為我們也知道根據這個AOR第二三一條的規定裡面當這個飛機在飛航之前如果有組員發生這些問題的時候那機長是有權責來做一些處置\n\n32\n00:11:12,849 --> 00:11:41,096\n那如果在飛行當中主員因為不管是疲勞疾病或者是相關因素的時候那如果嚴重的影響到執行的權責的能力的時候機長可以終止飛航跟就近於降落做必要處置這個是我們看到的AOR目前對於主員的這些不管是身體狀況或相關問題的時候機長所做的處置的一些可以依行的規範\n\n33\n00:11:42,576 --> 00:12:01,922\n當然他是有他的職責可是他的專業能不能做這樣的判斷其實是當然除了說他這個機長本身持續去加強這個本質學能以外如何能夠有更好的評估機制我相信這一個案件應該可以給民進黨局這邊交通部這邊做一個參考所以\n\n34\n00:12:02,282 --> 00:12:30,086\n如果能夠改善機前的檢查評估機制這個未來能不能夠在交通部民調局的組織之下召集相關的部會或學會一起來研議包括剛所提到的有關於這個上機前的評估能不能夠更具體那機上緊急狀況的處置要有一定的SOP而不是請機長來做一些直接判斷做處置這樣子而已\n\n35\n00:12:30,632 --> 00:12:57,385\n那第三項我們也知道現在MedLink其實是一個很可以引用的一個新的科技那將來有沒有必要把它變成是一個必要的服務的內容還有最後一項AOR的相關規定目前機長的權責跟他的專業之間有沒有必要做相關這些內容的修訂或者是做研議那這部分不知道何局長你的高見如何\n\n36\n00:12:57,981 --> 00:13:24,592\n好謝謝委員的提示我想在這個剛剛講到的機前的上機前的檢查那因為我們其實有另外一個條文就是說上機前的如果是民用航空運輸業因為這邊提的是普通航空業那普通航空業我們講的是直升機所以這邊提的就是說直升機他如何去做處理那如果是這個民用航空運輸業就是指長榮華航這一種\n\n37\n00:13:26,453 --> 00:13:49,091\n機長的部分有機長的處理那後艙的空服組員的話依照這個相關規定的手冊的話就是由組員相互確認那事務長要做最後的處理上機前的一個檢查那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議就是說上機前的交互檢查確認組員的身體健康狀況我們可以參考委員的意見再來看看如何來精進他\n\n38\n00:13:49,811 --> 00:14:08,297\n那第二个就是说这个有关紧急医疗的处置的部分因为机上的话如果是其实如果是打MairLink这一些其实是会透过空中查询然后由机组员去做处理那机长是不会去涉及这一些处理的\n\n39\n00:14:08,897 --> 00:14:31,916\n那Mainlink的話目前來講它現在確實因為它是一種選擇性的服務就是說由航空公司跟這個去做一個應該是說採買這樣的系統那目前我們來講長榮華航跟新宇都有這樣的一個服務設施那主要是用在長城線因為長城的這個飛行比較遠所以有需要這樣的一個服務設施\n\n40\n00:14:32,837 --> 00:14:58,063\n那至於是不是有需要來修訂相關AOA規定的部分我想這個這個案件我們會整體來看整個華航其實主要是在一個執行過程中這個整個通報的機制包含他處理的機制包含組員的教育訓練等等那這個部分我們會請競速來做一個檢討好那這個檢討還有研議報告一個月可以給我們中南委員會來做參考好謝謝\n\n41\n00:15:02,406 --> 00:15:07,337\n好謝謝王偉謝謝局長一個月謝謝委員會在這邊做一個宣告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10003\t13597\t好 謝謝主席我們還是麻煩黃部長來 部長\n26557\t40351\t你好不好意思都沒有時間讓您稍微喘一口氣喝個水不過因為因應這一次長榮空服員的憾事大家都覺得非常遺憾因為是一個年輕的生命\n41071\t57487\t那也激發了社會對於公司管理的線路跟合理性的討論早上很多委員都已經有跟你討論這些事情不過還是從制度上我們必須要來做深入的了解從一個個案來看整體的制度\n57927\t81938\t特別是在勞工請假權益的保障還有禁止不利益待遇的強度跟範圍應該怎麼來做處理這部分部長其實也是專家所以就利用這個機會來跟您做就教我相信大家在每天非常繁忙的工作的同時對於如何能夠有好的這些假期的處理\n82818\t101195\t讓他的這個整個身心可以有效的回復是非常重要而且是需要大家一起來關注那身為這個勞動部的這個最大的負責人我相信對於這些勞工的請假應該是非常的關注那針對這個勞動的法規我們也了解\n104318\t123872\t在勞工請假過程裡面我們目前有不同的法源的規定包括在性平法上面有針對於生理假等等的有做一些相關的安排尤其在禁止不利益的待遇保障上面其實做了非常強烈的規範要求雇主不得拒絕\n125193\t145194\t還有在這個接受這樣的這個請求的時候不能夠用其他的方式來讓這樣的請假的美意或者是這些假期的美意得到了影響包括說不能夠當作缺勤而影響獎金考積等等這個是我們可以看到性平工作法裡面第4條對21條做了非常完整的規範\n146195\t161687\t那針對勞基法第3條還有這個請假規則裡面有不同的價別可是呢它這個針對於競逐不利的部分呢它所要求的就沒有那麼高只能要求說不得扣發這個全刑獎金\n162527\t186241\t那針對於另外的就是以今天這個個案為例他是有生病那生病的時候他需要請假的話那目前針對這個勞基法第13條所看到的就是普通傷病假來做調理那這個部分其實目前並沒有任何有關你禁止不利益的這些保障的部分只有要求說沒有超過30天的話公知責辦發給這樣的這個請假的這個結果所以\n191324\t209125\t針對這樣的問題我們覺得似乎從制度上面從這個法條上面我們必須要有重新來省思如何能夠讓這個禁止不利益的免疫可以落實到未來在各方面的請假或者是有下的時候可以提供更好的一些處理模式那我們可以從\n211107\t227983\t今年的這個10月10號開始根據目前那總統在健康台灣推動委員會的指示之下所辦理的一個方式就是針對公務人員他可以根據這個規定來請不管家庭照顧假還有增加一個身心調適假\n229524\t246453\t每一個人可以每年三天的這個假期那這個部分的美意就在於這個併入試駕的過程裡面他不需要檢護任何證明機關不得拒絕不得不利的部分這個意思就是說對於禁止不利益的這些處分其實是有達到最高的規格\n247373\t275532\t所以相歸來講未來勞動部在這方面能不能夠有參考公務人員新這個三天的這個新條市價的政策來提供我們的這個勞工朋友也有相關的這個可行性那當然這個部分可能會有不同的形式比如說這個是要一個新的條市價那還是要從病價裡面去做框出或者是從市價裡面去框出那如果有好的立法技術那這個強度\n277413\t293909\t是不是也要如同這個公務人員的保障一樣那到底一年要幾天 當然天數少就可以比照公務人員如果天數多 相對這個保護強度是不是要有效的調控那這部分不知道部長目前有沒有相關的想法\n295089\t315026\t根本說沒有的確這關於這一次的事件也引發了社會對於尤其是病假病假其實相關的權益會不會有一些比較制度性的這個阻礙的這個問題那我想我還是表達幾個部分第一個部分是\n316767\t342641\t如果勞工請病假是被雇主拒絕的話我想這就是直接違反勞基法那這就是最高最高世界規模如果高違反人數高或者是清潔嚴重的話是最高就是150萬那第二個是我們其實也在這段時間也是在檢視比方說我們看到比方說像全勤獎金其實在一些法院的判決裡面其實都已經把它視為是勞工工資的一部分\n342961\t365949\t那如果是勞工工資的一部分的話那這個勞工請病假就被沒收整個月的這個全勤獎金其實我們認為這是不合理的狀況所以這部分我們也在研議一些用比較制度性的方式來做保障那針對這部分那至於其他的這個不利現在可能在講不利對待的部分因為不利對待的\n367209\t389948\t范畴其實蠻大的樣態其實很多那請病假的樣態其實也蠻多的那就其他的部分我想我們也是希望能夠在一個為事情我們的同仁在一個原則然後那這個原則但就是說我們的確是不希望說勞工生病卻要硬撐著不休息這個事情還被\n391496\t412226\t公司的制度來做制度性的鼓勵這是這個事情我們也不樂見所以在這個概念下面是不是來檢視我們相對應在病假跟現在被認知為不利對待的這個這個權利上面是不是有再多一點調整的空間不要好像變成我們是\n413146\t426902\t都把這種明明該請生病到該請病假了卻還硬撐著上班然後變成是一種對企業付出的一個正面的效益或績效其實我覺得這大概不符合社會的期待甚至也可能未來會製造更多的問題\n428223\t450629\t是的確因為社會整個情況在不同的轉變之下如何能夠針對我們老公朋友有更友善的一些做法這個是要麻煩部長這邊持續的關注其實從這個個案裡面我們也知道他在這個上期之前因為有一些身體狀況需要臨時請特休等等的狀況其實是對於如何\n452050\t465705\t幫助讓他在請假的過程裡面是更為安心的所以剛剛部長也提到範圍跟強度到底要用到哪裡那這個真的是很需要好好的一個了解跟規範那包括未來如果有類似的狀況臨時請特休\n468588\t484942\t我們知道像空服員他們的工作時間剛好是在其他人有假期要去做出國旅遊或是其他安排的時候他們剛好要出行最多事後如果國人假出行以後的調整等等的\n485622\t504147\t這個能不能夠也進入到這個這個這樣不利一代的部分可以減到最低還有任何的法定價別是不是都要列入相關的規範這部分可能就是要麻煩部裡面做一些研議那這個研議看能不能在一個月給我們相關的到委員會給相關的報告\n504795\t533477\t跟網友說明的確比方說像特休那特休當然就是完全要給付工資而且不能也是一樣這個選擇權完全是在勞工手上只要僱主拒絕的話那這就是就直接違法那剛剛網友講這個狀況或者是講到長榮的狀況那我們會整體的來去做一些評估啦那可是確實我們現在看到長榮的一些狀況我覺得他當然有規範性的問題裡面也有是他們管理文化上面的狀況\n534978\t541442\t那這個管理文化的狀況如果沒有辦法再做一些調整的話其實我們也很擔心類似的狀況會\n545148\t567606\t會一直有狀況會發生所以這是為什麼我們很希望我們也很支持就是希望公司必須要跟公會真的好好坐下來協商那因為就是應該面對尤其是我們基層的基礎員他很實質的身體上面的安全上面的需求我想這是我們的立場\n568356\t592953\t是 我相信白宮白夜都有它特別的文化各方面的需求所以這部分就麻煩部裡面持續的來做研議那再過來就是有關於這個目前到底我們有沒有比較完整的數據知道我們這些勞工朋友在使用病假的狀況的調查因為我們發現目前在部裡面有113年勞工生活跟就業狀況調查的報告\n594534\t621702\t那這個報這份報告只針對於加班還有這個特別休假情形做相關的這個問卷調查去得到每個勞工他在一年裡面可能在假期上面的運用可是好像沒有病假這個欄位那我們知道現在的這些生活比較緊張或相關的問題所以在未來是不是可以把病假的狀況調查也列為一個每一個年度的這個調查內容\n624172\t647430\t因為網友有關心這個事情所以我們有回去看了一下的確現在目前只針對特休那我認為把病假加入到使用狀況調查的一個項目跟欄位裡面我想我們這部分我覺得我們應該是可以來做的好那就麻煩這一部分你能夠把它加強進來麻煩這個部長先回座休息最後一個問題我來請教一下民航局何局長\n651502\t671569\t如果能夠改善我們這個像今天碰到的這個困境因為我們也知道根據這個AOR第二三一條的規定裡面當這個飛機在飛航之前如果有組員發生這些問題的時候那機長是有權責來做一些處置\n672849\t701096\t那如果在飛行當中主員因為不管是疲勞疾病或者是相關因素的時候那如果嚴重的影響到執行的權責的能力的時候機長可以終止飛航跟就近於降落做必要處置這個是我們看到的AOR目前對於主員的這些不管是身體狀況或相關問題的時候機長所做的處置的一些可以依行的規範\n702576\t721922\t當然他是有他的職責可是他的專業能不能做這樣的判斷其實是當然除了說他這個機長本身持續去加強這個本質學能以外如何能夠有更好的評估機制我相信這一個案件應該可以給民進黨局這邊交通部這邊做一個參考所以\n722282\t750086\t如果能夠改善機前的檢查評估機制這個未來能不能夠在交通部民調局的組織之下召集相關的部會或學會一起來研議包括剛所提到的有關於這個上機前的評估能不能夠更具體那機上緊急狀況的處置要有一定的SOP而不是請機長來做一些直接判斷做處置這樣子而已\n750632\t777385\t那第三項我們也知道現在MedLink其實是一個很可以引用的一個新的科技那將來有沒有必要把它變成是一個必要的服務的內容還有最後一項AOR的相關規定目前機長的權責跟他的專業之間有沒有必要做相關這些內容的修訂或者是做研議那這部分不知道何局長你的高見如何\n777981\t804592\t好謝謝委員的提示我想在這個剛剛講到的機前的上機前的檢查那因為我們其實有另外一個條文就是說上機前的如果是民用航空運輸業因為這邊提的是普通航空業那普通航空業我們講的是直升機所以這邊提的就是說直升機他如何去做處理那如果是這個民用航空運輸業就是指長榮華航這一種\n806453\t829091\t機長的部分有機長的處理那後艙的空服組員的話依照這個相關規定的手冊的話就是由組員相互確認那事務長要做最後的處理上機前的一個檢查那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議就是說上機前的交互檢查確認組員的身體健康狀況我們可以參考委員的意見再來看看如何來精進他\n829811\t848297\t那第二个就是说这个有关紧急医疗的处置的部分因为机上的话如果是其实如果是打MairLink这一些其实是会透过空中查询然后由机组员去做处理那机长是不会去涉及这一些处理的\n848897\t871916\t那Mainlink的話目前來講它現在確實因為它是一種選擇性的服務就是說由航空公司跟這個去做一個應該是說採買這樣的系統那目前我們來講長榮華航跟新宇都有這樣的一個服務設施那主要是用在長城線因為長城的這個飛行比較遠所以有需要這樣的一個服務設施\n872837\t898063\t那至於是不是有需要來修訂相關AOA規定的部分我想這個這個案件我們會整體來看整個華航其實主要是在一個執行過程中這個整個通報的機制包含他處理的機制包含組員的教育訓練等等那這個部分我們會請競速來做一個檢討好那這個檢討還有研議報告一個月可以給我們中南委員會來做參考好謝謝\n902406\t907337\t好 謝謝王偉 謝謝局長一個月 謝謝委員會在這邊做一個宣告\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席我們還是麻煩黃部長來 部長\n你好不好意思都沒有時間讓您稍微喘一口氣喝個水不過因為因應這一次長榮空服員的憾事大家都覺得非常遺憾因為是一個年輕的生命\n那也激發了社會對於公司管理的線路跟合理性的討論早上很多委員都已經有跟你討論這些事情不過還是從制度上我們必須要來做深入的了解從一個個案來看整體的制度\n特別是在勞工請假權益的保障還有禁止不利益待遇的強度跟範圍應該怎麼來做處理這部分部長其實也是專家所以就利用這個機會來跟您做就教我相信大家在每天非常繁忙的工作的同時對於如何能夠有好的這些假期的處理\n讓他的這個整個身心可以有效的回復是非常重要而且是需要大家一起來關注那身為這個勞動部的這個最大的負責人我相信對於這些勞工的請假應該是非常的關注那針對這個勞動的法規我們也了解\n在勞工請假過程裡面我們目前有不同的法源的規定包括在性平法上面有針對於生理假等等的有做一些相關的安排尤其在禁止不利益的待遇保障上面其實做了非常強烈的規範要求雇主不得拒絕\n還有在這個接受這樣的這個請求的時候不能夠用其他的方式來讓這樣的請假的美意或者是這些假期的美意得到了影響包括說不能夠當作缺勤而影響獎金考積等等這個是我們可以看到性平工作法裡面第4條對21條做了非常完整的規範\n那針對勞基法第3條還有這個請假規則裡面有不同的價別可是呢它這個針對於競逐不利的部分呢它所要求的就沒有那麼高只能要求說不得扣發這個全刑獎金\n那針對於另外的就是以今天這個個案為例他是有生病那生病的時候他需要請假的話那目前針對這個勞基法第13條所看到的就是普通傷病假來做調理那這個部分其實目前並沒有任何有關你禁止不利益的這些保障的部分只有要求說沒有超過30天的話公知責辦發給這樣的這個請假的這個結果所以\n針對這樣的問題我們覺得似乎從制度上面從這個法條上面我們必須要有重新來省思如何能夠讓這個禁止不利益的免疫可以落實到未來在各方面的請假或者是有下的時候可以提供更好的一些處理模式那我們可以從\n今年的這個10月10號開始根據目前那總統在健康台灣推動委員會的指示之下所辦理的一個方式就是針對公務人員他可以根據這個規定來請不管家庭照顧假還有增加一個身心調適假\n每一個人可以每年三天的這個假期那這個部分的美意就在於這個併入試駕的過程裡面他不需要檢護任何證明機關不得拒絕不得不利的部分這個意思就是說對於禁止不利益的這些處分其實是有達到最高的規格\n所以相歸來講未來勞動部在這方面能不能夠有參考公務人員新這個三天的這個新條市價的政策來提供我們的這個勞工朋友也有相關的這個可行性那當然這個部分可能會有不同的形式比如說這個是要一個新的條市價那還是要從病價裡面去做框出或者是從市價裡面去框出那如果有好的立法技術那這個強度\n是不是也要如同這個公務人員的保障一樣那到底一年要幾天 當然天數少就可以比照公務人員如果天數多 相對這個保護強度是不是要有效的調控那這部分不知道部長目前有沒有相關的想法\n根本說沒有的確這關於這一次的事件也引發了社會對於尤其是病假病假其實相關的權益會不會有一些比較制度性的這個阻礙的這個問題那我想我還是表達幾個部分第一個部分是\n如果勞工請病假是被雇主拒絕的話我想這就是直接違反勞基法那這就是最高最高世界規模如果高違反人數高或者是清潔嚴重的話是最高就是150萬那第二個是我們其實也在這段時間也是在檢視比方說我們看到比方說像全勤獎金其實在一些法院的判決裡面其實都已經把它視為是勞工工資的一部分\n那如果是勞工工資的一部分的話那這個勞工請病假就被沒收整個月的這個全勤獎金其實我們認為這是不合理的狀況所以這部分我們也在研議一些用比較制度性的方式來做保障那針對這部分那至於其他的這個不利現在可能在講不利對待的部分因為不利對待的\n范畴其實蠻大的樣態其實很多那請病假的樣態其實也蠻多的那就其他的部分我想我們也是希望能夠在一個為事情我們的同仁在一個原則然後那這個原則但就是說我們的確是不希望說勞工生病卻要硬撐著不休息這個事情還被\n公司的制度來做制度性的鼓勵這是這個事情我們也不樂見所以在這個概念下面是不是來檢視我們相對應在病假跟現在被認知為不利對待的這個這個權利上面是不是有再多一點調整的空間不要好像變成我們是\n都把這種明明該請生病到該請病假了卻還硬撐著上班然後變成是一種對企業付出的一個正面的效益或績效其實我覺得這大概不符合社會的期待甚至也可能未來會製造更多的問題\n是的確因為社會整個情況在不同的轉變之下如何能夠針對我們老公朋友有更友善的一些做法這個是要麻煩部長這邊持續的關注其實從這個個案裡面我們也知道他在這個上期之前因為有一些身體狀況需要臨時請特休等等的狀況其實是對於如何\n幫助讓他在請假的過程裡面是更為安心的所以剛剛部長也提到範圍跟強度到底要用到哪裡那這個真的是很需要好好的一個了解跟規範那包括未來如果有類似的狀況臨時請特休\n我們知道像空服員他們的工作時間剛好是在其他人有假期要去做出國旅遊或是其他安排的時候他們剛好要出行最多事後如果國人假出行以後的調整等等的\n這個能不能夠也進入到這個這個這樣不利一代的部分可以減到最低還有任何的法定價別是不是都要列入相關的規範這部分可能就是要麻煩部裡面做一些研議那這個研議看能不能在一個月給我們相關的到委員會給相關的報告\n跟網友說明的確比方說像特休那特休當然就是完全要給付工資而且不能也是一樣這個選擇權完全是在勞工手上只要僱主拒絕的話那這就是就直接違法那剛剛網友講這個狀況或者是講到長榮的狀況那我們會整體的來去做一些評估啦那可是確實我們現在看到長榮的一些狀況我覺得他當然有規範性的問題裡面也有是他們管理文化上面的狀況\n那這個管理文化的狀況如果沒有辦法再做一些調整的話其實我們也很擔心類似的狀況會\n會一直有狀況會發生所以這是為什麼我們很希望我們也很支持就是希望公司必須要跟公會真的好好坐下來協商那因為就是應該面對尤其是我們基層的基礎員他很實質的身體上面的安全上面的需求我想這是我們的立場\n是 我相信白宮白夜都有它特別的文化各方面的需求所以這部分就麻煩部裡面持續的來做研議那再過來就是有關於這個目前到底我們有沒有比較完整的數據知道我們這些勞工朋友在使用病假的狀況的調查因為我們發現目前在部裡面有113年勞工生活跟就業狀況調查的報告\n那這個報這份報告只針對於加班還有這個特別休假情形做相關的這個問卷調查去得到每個勞工他在一年裡面可能在假期上面的運用可是好像沒有病假這個欄位那我們知道現在的這些生活比較緊張或相關的問題所以在未來是不是可以把病假的狀況調查也列為一個每一個年度的這個調查內容\n因為網友有關心這個事情所以我們有回去看了一下的確現在目前只針對特休那我認為把病假加入到使用狀況調查的一個項目跟欄位裡面我想我們這部分我覺得我們應該是可以來做的好那就麻煩這一部分你能夠把它加強進來麻煩這個部長先回座休息最後一個問題我來請教一下民航局何局長\n如果能夠改善我們這個像今天碰到的這個困境因為我們也知道根據這個AOR第二三一條的規定裡面當這個飛機在飛航之前如果有組員發生這些問題的時候那機長是有權責來做一些處置\n那如果在飛行當中主員因為不管是疲勞疾病或者是相關因素的時候那如果嚴重的影響到執行的權責的能力的時候機長可以終止飛航跟就近於降落做必要處置這個是我們看到的AOR目前對於主員的這些不管是身體狀況或相關問題的時候機長所做的處置的一些可以依行的規範\n當然他是有他的職責可是他的專業能不能做這樣的判斷其實是當然除了說他這個機長本身持續去加強這個本質學能以外如何能夠有更好的評估機制我相信這一個案件應該可以給民進黨局這邊交通部這邊做一個參考所以\n如果能夠改善機前的檢查評估機制這個未來能不能夠在交通部民調局的組織之下召集相關的部會或學會一起來研議包括剛所提到的有關於這個上機前的評估能不能夠更具體那機上緊急狀況的處置要有一定的SOP而不是請機長來做一些直接判斷做處置這樣子而已\n那第三項我們也知道現在MedLink其實是一個很可以引用的一個新的科技那將來有沒有必要把它變成是一個必要的服務的內容還有最後一項AOR的相關規定目前機長的權責跟他的專業之間有沒有必要做相關這些內容的修訂或者是做研議那這部分不知道何局長你的高見如何\n好謝謝委員的提示我想在這個剛剛講到的機前的上機前的檢查那因為我們其實有另外一個條文就是說上機前的如果是民用航空運輸業因為這邊提的是普通航空業那普通航空業我們講的是直升機所以這邊提的就是說直升機他如何去做處理那如果是這個民用航空運輸業就是指長榮華航這一種\n機長的部分有機長的處理那後艙的空服組員的話依照這個相關規定的手冊的話就是由組員相互確認那事務長要做最後的處理上機前的一個檢查那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議就是說上機前的交互檢查確認組員的身體健康狀況我們可以參考委員的意見再來看看如何來精進他\n那第二个就是说这个有关紧急医疗的处置的部分因为机上的话如果是其实如果是打MairLink这一些其实是会透过空中查询然后由机组员去做处理那机长是不会去涉及这一些处理的\n那Mainlink的話目前來講它現在確實因為它是一種選擇性的服務就是說由航空公司跟這個去做一個應該是說採買這樣的系統那目前我們來講長榮華航跟新宇都有這樣的一個服務設施那主要是用在長城線因為長城的這個飛行比較遠所以有需要這樣的一個服務設施\n那至於是不是有需要來修訂相關AOA規定的部分我想這個這個案件我們會整體來看整個華航其實主要是在一個執行過程中這個整個通報的機制包含他處理的機制包含組員的教育訓練等等那這個部分我們會請競速來做一個檢討好那這個檢討還有研議報告一個月可以給我們中南委員會來做參考好謝謝\n好 謝謝王偉 謝謝局長一個月 謝謝委員會在這邊做一個宣告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.003 --> 00:13.597\n好謝謝主席我們還是麻煩黃部長來部長\n\n00:26.557 --> 00:40.351\n你好不好意思都沒有時間讓您稍微喘一口氣喝個水不過因為因應這一次長榮空服員的憾事大家都覺得非常遺憾因為是一個年輕的生命\n\n00:41.071 --> 00:57.487\n那也激發了社會對於公司管理的線路跟合理性的討論早上很多委員都已經有跟你討論這些事情不過還是從制度上我們必須要來做深入的了解從一個個案來看整體的制度\n\n00:57.927 --> 01:21.938\n特別是在勞工請假權益的保障還有禁止不利益待遇的強度跟範圍應該怎麼來做處理這部分部長其實也是專家所以就利用這個機會來跟您做就教我相信大家在每天非常繁忙的工作的同時對於如何能夠有好的這些假期的處理\n\n01:22.818 --> 01:41.195\n讓他的這個整個身心可以有效的回復是非常重要而且是需要大家一起來關注那身為這個勞動部的這個最大的負責人我相信對於這些勞工的請假應該是非常的關注那針對這個勞動的法規我們也了解\n\n01:44.318 --> 02:03.872\n在勞工請假過程裡面我們目前有不同的法源的規定包括在性平法上面有針對於生理假等等的有做一些相關的安排尤其在禁止不利益的待遇保障上面其實做了非常強烈的規範要求雇主不得拒絕\n\n02:05.193 --> 02:25.194\n還有在這個接受這樣的這個請求的時候不能夠用其他的方式來讓這樣的請假的美意或者是這些假期的美意得到了影響包括說不能夠當作缺勤而影響獎金考積等等這個是我們可以看到性平工作法裡面第4條對21條做了非常完整的規範\n\n02:26.195 --> 02:41.687\n那針對勞基法第3條還有這個請假規則裡面有不同的價別可是呢它這個針對於競逐不利的部分呢它所要求的就沒有那麼高只能要求說不得扣發這個全刑獎金\n\n02:42.527 --> 03:06.241\n那針對於另外的就是以今天這個個案為例他是有生病那生病的時候他需要請假的話那目前針對這個勞基法第13條所看到的就是普通傷病假來做調理那這個部分其實目前並沒有任何有關你禁止不利益的這些保障的部分只有要求說沒有超過30天的話公知責辦發給這樣的這個請假的這個結果所以\n\n03:11.324 --> 03:29.125\n針對這樣的問題我們覺得似乎從制度上面從這個法條上面我們必須要有重新來省思如何能夠讓這個禁止不利益的免疫可以落實到未來在各方面的請假或者是有下的時候可以提供更好的一些處理模式那我們可以從\n\n03:31.107 --> 03:47.983\n今年的這個10月10號開始根據目前那總統在健康台灣推動委員會的指示之下所辦理的一個方式就是針對公務人員他可以根據這個規定來請不管家庭照顧假還有增加一個身心調適假\n\n03:49.524 --> 04:06.453\n每一個人可以每年三天的這個假期那這個部分的美意就在於這個併入試駕的過程裡面他不需要檢護任何證明機關不得拒絕不得不利的部分這個意思就是說對於禁止不利益的這些處分其實是有達到最高的規格\n\n04:07.373 --> 04:35.532\n所以相歸來講未來勞動部在這方面能不能夠有參考公務人員新這個三天的這個新條市價的政策來提供我們的這個勞工朋友也有相關的這個可行性那當然這個部分可能會有不同的形式比如說這個是要一個新的條市價那還是要從病價裡面去做框出或者是從市價裡面去框出那如果有好的立法技術那這個強度\n\n04:37.413 --> 04:53.909\n是不是也要如同這個公務人員的保障一樣那到底一年要幾天當然天數少就可以比照公務人員如果天數多相對這個保護強度是不是要有效的調控那這部分不知道部長目前有沒有相關的想法\n\n04:55.089 --> 05:15.026\n根本說沒有的確這關於這一次的事件也引發了社會對於尤其是病假病假其實相關的權益會不會有一些比較制度性的這個阻礙的這個問題那我想我還是表達幾個部分第一個部分是\n\n05:16.767 --> 05:42.641\n如果勞工請病假是被雇主拒絕的話我想這就是直接違反勞基法那這就是最高最高世界規模如果高違反人數高或者是清潔嚴重的話是最高就是150萬那第二個是我們其實也在這段時間也是在檢視比方說我們看到比方說像全勤獎金其實在一些法院的判決裡面其實都已經把它視為是勞工工資的一部分\n\n05:42.961 --> 06:05.949\n那如果是勞工工資的一部分的話那這個勞工請病假就被沒收整個月的這個全勤獎金其實我們認為這是不合理的狀況所以這部分我們也在研議一些用比較制度性的方式來做保障那針對這部分那至於其他的這個不利現在可能在講不利對待的部分因為不利對待的\n\n06:07.209 --> 06:29.948\n范畴其實蠻大的樣態其實很多那請病假的樣態其實也蠻多的那就其他的部分我想我們也是希望能夠在一個為事情我們的同仁在一個原則然後那這個原則但就是說我們的確是不希望說勞工生病卻要硬撐著不休息這個事情還被\n\n06:31.496 --> 06:52.226\n公司的制度來做制度性的鼓勵這是這個事情我們也不樂見所以在這個概念下面是不是來檢視我們相對應在病假跟現在被認知為不利對待的這個這個權利上面是不是有再多一點調整的空間不要好像變成我們是\n\n06:53.146 --> 07:06.902\n都把這種明明該請生病到該請病假了卻還硬撐著上班然後變成是一種對企業付出的一個正面的效益或績效其實我覺得這大概不符合社會的期待甚至也可能未來會製造更多的問題\n\n07:08.223 --> 07:30.629\n是的確因為社會整個情況在不同的轉變之下如何能夠針對我們老公朋友有更友善的一些做法這個是要麻煩部長這邊持續的關注其實從這個個案裡面我們也知道他在這個上期之前因為有一些身體狀況需要臨時請特休等等的狀況其實是對於如何\n\n07:32.050 --> 07:45.705\n幫助讓他在請假的過程裡面是更為安心的所以剛剛部長也提到範圍跟強度到底要用到哪裡那這個真的是很需要好好的一個了解跟規範那包括未來如果有類似的狀況臨時請特休\n\n07:48.588 --> 08:04.942\n我們知道像空服員他們的工作時間剛好是在其他人有假期要去做出國旅遊或是其他安排的時候他們剛好要出行最多事後如果國人假出行以後的調整等等的\n\n08:05.622 --> 08:24.147\n這個能不能夠也進入到這個這個這樣不利一代的部分可以減到最低還有任何的法定價別是不是都要列入相關的規範這部分可能就是要麻煩部裡面做一些研議那這個研議看能不能在一個月給我們相關的到委員會給相關的報告\n\n08:24.795 --> 08:53.477\n跟網友說明的確比方說像特休那特休當然就是完全要給付工資而且不能也是一樣這個選擇權完全是在勞工手上只要僱主拒絕的話那這就是就直接違法那剛剛網友講這個狀況或者是講到長榮的狀況那我們會整體的來去做一些評估啦那可是確實我們現在看到長榮的一些狀況我覺得他當然有規範性的問題裡面也有是他們管理文化上面的狀況\n\n08:54.978 --> 09:01.442\n那這個管理文化的狀況如果沒有辦法再做一些調整的話其實我們也很擔心類似的狀況會\n\n09:05.148 --> 09:27.606\n會一直有狀況會發生所以這是為什麼我們很希望我們也很支持就是希望公司必須要跟公會真的好好坐下來協商那因為就是應該面對尤其是我們基層的基礎員他很實質的身體上面的安全上面的需求我想這是我們的立場\n\n09:28.356 --> 09:52.953\n是我相信白宮白夜都有它特別的文化各方面的需求所以這部分就麻煩部裡面持續的來做研議那再過來就是有關於這個目前到底我們有沒有比較完整的數據知道我們這些勞工朋友在使用病假的狀況的調查因為我們發現目前在部裡面有113年勞工生活跟就業狀況調查的報告\n\n09:54.534 --> 10:21.702\n那這個報這份報告只針對於加班還有這個特別休假情形做相關的這個問卷調查去得到每個勞工他在一年裡面可能在假期上面的運用可是好像沒有病假這個欄位那我們知道現在的這些生活比較緊張或相關的問題所以在未來是不是可以把病假的狀況調查也列為一個每一個年度的這個調查內容\n\n10:24.172 --> 10:47.430\n因為網友有關心這個事情所以我們有回去看了一下的確現在目前只針對特休那我認為把病假加入到使用狀況調查的一個項目跟欄位裡面我想我們這部分我覺得我們應該是可以來做的好那就麻煩這一部分你能夠把它加強進來麻煩這個部長先回座休息最後一個問題我來請教一下民航局何局長\n\n10:51.502 --> 11:11.569\n如果能夠改善我們這個像今天碰到的這個困境因為我們也知道根據這個AOR第二三一條的規定裡面當這個飛機在飛航之前如果有組員發生這些問題的時候那機長是有權責來做一些處置\n\n11:12.849 --> 11:41.096\n那如果在飛行當中主員因為不管是疲勞疾病或者是相關因素的時候那如果嚴重的影響到執行的權責的能力的時候機長可以終止飛航跟就近於降落做必要處置這個是我們看到的AOR目前對於主員的這些不管是身體狀況或相關問題的時候機長所做的處置的一些可以依行的規範\n\n11:42.576 --> 12:01.922\n當然他是有他的職責可是他的專業能不能做這樣的判斷其實是當然除了說他這個機長本身持續去加強這個本質學能以外如何能夠有更好的評估機制我相信這一個案件應該可以給民進黨局這邊交通部這邊做一個參考所以\n\n12:02.282 --> 12:30.086\n如果能夠改善機前的檢查評估機制這個未來能不能夠在交通部民調局的組織之下召集相關的部會或學會一起來研議包括剛所提到的有關於這個上機前的評估能不能夠更具體那機上緊急狀況的處置要有一定的SOP而不是請機長來做一些直接判斷做處置這樣子而已\n\n12:30.632 --> 12:57.385\n那第三項我們也知道現在MedLink其實是一個很可以引用的一個新的科技那將來有沒有必要把它變成是一個必要的服務的內容還有最後一項AOR的相關規定目前機長的權責跟他的專業之間有沒有必要做相關這些內容的修訂或者是做研議那這部分不知道何局長你的高見如何\n\n12:57.981 --> 13:24.592\n好謝謝委員的提示我想在這個剛剛講到的機前的上機前的檢查那因為我們其實有另外一個條文就是說上機前的如果是民用航空運輸業因為這邊提的是普通航空業那普通航空業我們講的是直升機所以這邊提的就是說直升機他如何去做處理那如果是這個民用航空運輸業就是指長榮華航這一種\n\n13:26.453 --> 13:49.091\n機長的部分有機長的處理那後艙的空服組員的話依照這個相關規定的手冊的話就是由組員相互確認那事務長要做最後的處理上機前的一個檢查那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議就是說上機前的交互檢查確認組員的身體健康狀況我們可以參考委員的意見再來看看如何來精進他\n\n13:49.811 --> 14:08.297\n那第二个就是说这个有关紧急医疗的处置的部分因为机上的话如果是其实如果是打MairLink这一些其实是会透过空中查询然后由机组员去做处理那机长是不会去涉及这一些处理的\n\n14:08.897 --> 14:31.916\n那Mainlink的話目前來講它現在確實因為它是一種選擇性的服務就是說由航空公司跟這個去做一個應該是說採買這樣的系統那目前我們來講長榮華航跟新宇都有這樣的一個服務設施那主要是用在長城線因為長城的這個飛行比較遠所以有需要這樣的一個服務設施\n\n14:32.837 --> 14:58.063\n那至於是不是有需要來修訂相關AOA規定的部分我想這個這個案件我們會整體來看整個華航其實主要是在一個執行過程中這個整個通報的機制包含他處理的機制包含組員的教育訓練等等那這個部分我們會請競速來做一個檢討好那這個檢討還有研議報告一個月可以給我們中南委員會來做參考好謝謝\n\n15:02.406 --> 15:07.337\n好謝謝王偉謝謝局長一個月謝謝委員會在這邊做一個宣告\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.003,"end":13.597,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們還是麻煩黃部長來 部長"},{"start":26.557,"end":40.351,"text":"你好不好意思都沒有時間讓您稍微喘一口氣喝個水不過因為因應這一次長榮空服員的憾事大家都覺得非常遺憾因為是一個年輕的生命"},{"start":41.071,"end":57.487,"text":"那也激發了社會對於公司管理的線路跟合理性的討論早上很多委員都已經有跟你討論這些事情不過還是從制度上我們必須要來做深入的了解從一個個案來看整體的制度"},{"start":57.927,"end":81.938,"text":"特別是在勞工請假權益的保障還有禁止不利益待遇的強度跟範圍應該怎麼來做處理這部分部長其實也是專家所以就利用這個機會來跟您做就教我相信大家在每天非常繁忙的工作的同時對於如何能夠有好的這些假期的處理"},{"start":82.818,"end":101.195,"text":"讓他的這個整個身心可以有效的回復是非常重要而且是需要大家一起來關注那身為這個勞動部的這個最大的負責人我相信對於這些勞工的請假應該是非常的關注那針對這個勞動的法規我們也了解"},{"start":104.318,"end":123.872,"text":"在勞工請假過程裡面我們目前有不同的法源的規定包括在性平法上面有針對於生理假等等的有做一些相關的安排尤其在禁止不利益的待遇保障上面其實做了非常強烈的規範要求雇主不得拒絕"},{"start":125.193,"end":145.194,"text":"還有在這個接受這樣的這個請求的時候不能夠用其他的方式來讓這樣的請假的美意或者是這些假期的美意得到了影響包括說不能夠當作缺勤而影響獎金考積等等這個是我們可以看到性平工作法裡面第4條對21條做了非常完整的規範"},{"start":146.195,"end":161.687,"text":"那針對勞基法第3條還有這個請假規則裡面有不同的價別可是呢它這個針對於競逐不利的部分呢它所要求的就沒有那麼高只能要求說不得扣發這個全刑獎金"},{"start":162.527,"end":186.241,"text":"那針對於另外的就是以今天這個個案為例他是有生病那生病的時候他需要請假的話那目前針對這個勞基法第13條所看到的就是普通傷病假來做調理那這個部分其實目前並沒有任何有關你禁止不利益的這些保障的部分只有要求說沒有超過30天的話公知責辦發給這樣的這個請假的這個結果所以"},{"start":191.324,"end":209.125,"text":"針對這樣的問題我們覺得似乎從制度上面從這個法條上面我們必須要有重新來省思如何能夠讓這個禁止不利益的免疫可以落實到未來在各方面的請假或者是有下的時候可以提供更好的一些處理模式那我們可以從"},{"start":211.107,"end":227.983,"text":"今年的這個10月10號開始根據目前那總統在健康台灣推動委員會的指示之下所辦理的一個方式就是針對公務人員他可以根據這個規定來請不管家庭照顧假還有增加一個身心調適假"},{"start":229.524,"end":246.453,"text":"每一個人可以每年三天的這個假期那這個部分的美意就在於這個併入試駕的過程裡面他不需要檢護任何證明機關不得拒絕不得不利的部分這個意思就是說對於禁止不利益的這些處分其實是有達到最高的規格"},{"start":247.373,"end":275.532,"text":"所以相歸來講未來勞動部在這方面能不能夠有參考公務人員新這個三天的這個新條市價的政策來提供我們的這個勞工朋友也有相關的這個可行性那當然這個部分可能會有不同的形式比如說這個是要一個新的條市價那還是要從病價裡面去做框出或者是從市價裡面去框出那如果有好的立法技術那這個強度"},{"start":277.413,"end":293.909,"text":"是不是也要如同這個公務人員的保障一樣那到底一年要幾天 當然天數少就可以比照公務人員如果天數多 相對這個保護強度是不是要有效的調控那這部分不知道部長目前有沒有相關的想法"},{"start":295.089,"end":315.026,"text":"根本說沒有的確這關於這一次的事件也引發了社會對於尤其是病假病假其實相關的權益會不會有一些比較制度性的這個阻礙的這個問題那我想我還是表達幾個部分第一個部分是"},{"start":316.767,"end":342.641,"text":"如果勞工請病假是被雇主拒絕的話我想這就是直接違反勞基法那這就是最高最高世界規模如果高違反人數高或者是清潔嚴重的話是最高就是150萬那第二個是我們其實也在這段時間也是在檢視比方說我們看到比方說像全勤獎金其實在一些法院的判決裡面其實都已經把它視為是勞工工資的一部分"},{"start":342.961,"end":365.949,"text":"那如果是勞工工資的一部分的話那這個勞工請病假就被沒收整個月的這個全勤獎金其實我們認為這是不合理的狀況所以這部分我們也在研議一些用比較制度性的方式來做保障那針對這部分那至於其他的這個不利現在可能在講不利對待的部分因為不利對待的"},{"start":367.209,"end":389.948,"text":"范畴其實蠻大的樣態其實很多那請病假的樣態其實也蠻多的那就其他的部分我想我們也是希望能夠在一個為事情我們的同仁在一個原則然後那這個原則但就是說我們的確是不希望說勞工生病卻要硬撐著不休息這個事情還被"},{"start":391.496,"end":412.226,"text":"公司的制度來做制度性的鼓勵這是這個事情我們也不樂見所以在這個概念下面是不是來檢視我們相對應在病假跟現在被認知為不利對待的這個這個權利上面是不是有再多一點調整的空間不要好像變成我們是"},{"start":413.146,"end":426.902,"text":"都把這種明明該請生病到該請病假了卻還硬撐著上班然後變成是一種對企業付出的一個正面的效益或績效其實我覺得這大概不符合社會的期待甚至也可能未來會製造更多的問題"},{"start":428.223,"end":450.629,"text":"是的確因為社會整個情況在不同的轉變之下如何能夠針對我們老公朋友有更友善的一些做法這個是要麻煩部長這邊持續的關注其實從這個個案裡面我們也知道他在這個上期之前因為有一些身體狀況需要臨時請特休等等的狀況其實是對於如何"},{"start":452.05,"end":465.705,"text":"幫助讓他在請假的過程裡面是更為安心的所以剛剛部長也提到範圍跟強度到底要用到哪裡那這個真的是很需要好好的一個了解跟規範那包括未來如果有類似的狀況臨時請特休"},{"start":468.588,"end":484.942,"text":"我們知道像空服員他們的工作時間剛好是在其他人有假期要去做出國旅遊或是其他安排的時候他們剛好要出行最多事後如果國人假出行以後的調整等等的"},{"start":485.622,"end":504.147,"text":"這個能不能夠也進入到這個這個這樣不利一代的部分可以減到最低還有任何的法定價別是不是都要列入相關的規範這部分可能就是要麻煩部裡面做一些研議那這個研議看能不能在一個月給我們相關的到委員會給相關的報告"},{"start":504.795,"end":533.477,"text":"跟網友說明的確比方說像特休那特休當然就是完全要給付工資而且不能也是一樣這個選擇權完全是在勞工手上只要僱主拒絕的話那這就是就直接違法那剛剛網友講這個狀況或者是講到長榮的狀況那我們會整體的來去做一些評估啦那可是確實我們現在看到長榮的一些狀況我覺得他當然有規範性的問題裡面也有是他們管理文化上面的狀況"},{"start":534.978,"end":541.442,"text":"那這個管理文化的狀況如果沒有辦法再做一些調整的話其實我們也很擔心類似的狀況會"},{"start":545.148,"end":567.606,"text":"會一直有狀況會發生所以這是為什麼我們很希望我們也很支持就是希望公司必須要跟公會真的好好坐下來協商那因為就是應該面對尤其是我們基層的基礎員他很實質的身體上面的安全上面的需求我想這是我們的立場"},{"start":568.356,"end":592.953,"text":"是 我相信白宮白夜都有它特別的文化各方面的需求所以這部分就麻煩部裡面持續的來做研議那再過來就是有關於這個目前到底我們有沒有比較完整的數據知道我們這些勞工朋友在使用病假的狀況的調查因為我們發現目前在部裡面有113年勞工生活跟就業狀況調查的報告"},{"start":594.534,"end":621.702,"text":"那這個報這份報告只針對於加班還有這個特別休假情形做相關的這個問卷調查去得到每個勞工他在一年裡面可能在假期上面的運用可是好像沒有病假這個欄位那我們知道現在的這些生活比較緊張或相關的問題所以在未來是不是可以把病假的狀況調查也列為一個每一個年度的這個調查內容"},{"start":624.172,"end":647.43,"text":"因為網友有關心這個事情所以我們有回去看了一下的確現在目前只針對特休那我認為把病假加入到使用狀況調查的一個項目跟欄位裡面我想我們這部分我覺得我們應該是可以來做的好那就麻煩這一部分你能夠把它加強進來麻煩這個部長先回座休息最後一個問題我來請教一下民航局何局長"},{"start":651.502,"end":671.569,"text":"如果能夠改善我們這個像今天碰到的這個困境因為我們也知道根據這個AOR第二三一條的規定裡面當這個飛機在飛航之前如果有組員發生這些問題的時候那機長是有權責來做一些處置"},{"start":672.849,"end":701.096,"text":"那如果在飛行當中主員因為不管是疲勞疾病或者是相關因素的時候那如果嚴重的影響到執行的權責的能力的時候機長可以終止飛航跟就近於降落做必要處置這個是我們看到的AOR目前對於主員的這些不管是身體狀況或相關問題的時候機長所做的處置的一些可以依行的規範"},{"start":702.576,"end":721.922,"text":"當然他是有他的職責可是他的專業能不能做這樣的判斷其實是當然除了說他這個機長本身持續去加強這個本質學能以外如何能夠有更好的評估機制我相信這一個案件應該可以給民進黨局這邊交通部這邊做一個參考所以"},{"start":722.282,"end":750.086,"text":"如果能夠改善機前的檢查評估機制這個未來能不能夠在交通部民調局的組織之下召集相關的部會或學會一起來研議包括剛所提到的有關於這個上機前的評估能不能夠更具體那機上緊急狀況的處置要有一定的SOP而不是請機長來做一些直接判斷做處置這樣子而已"},{"start":750.632,"end":777.385,"text":"那第三項我們也知道現在MedLink其實是一個很可以引用的一個新的科技那將來有沒有必要把它變成是一個必要的服務的內容還有最後一項AOR的相關規定目前機長的權責跟他的專業之間有沒有必要做相關這些內容的修訂或者是做研議那這部分不知道何局長你的高見如何"},{"start":777.981,"end":804.592,"text":"好謝謝委員的提示我想在這個剛剛講到的機前的上機前的檢查那因為我們其實有另外一個條文就是說上機前的如果是民用航空運輸業因為這邊提的是普通航空業那普通航空業我們講的是直升機所以這邊提的就是說直升機他如何去做處理那如果是這個民用航空運輸業就是指長榮華航這一種"},{"start":806.453,"end":829.091,"text":"機長的部分有機長的處理那後艙的空服組員的話依照這個相關規定的手冊的話就是由組員相互確認那事務長要做最後的處理上機前的一個檢查那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議就是說上機前的交互檢查確認組員的身體健康狀況我們可以參考委員的意見再來看看如何來精進他"},{"start":829.811,"end":848.297,"text":"那第二个就是说这个有关紧急医疗的处置的部分因为机上的话如果是其实如果是打MairLink这一些其实是会透过空中查询然后由机组员去做处理那机长是不会去涉及这一些处理的"},{"start":848.897,"end":871.916,"text":"那Mainlink的話目前來講它現在確實因為它是一種選擇性的服務就是說由航空公司跟這個去做一個應該是說採買這樣的系統那目前我們來講長榮華航跟新宇都有這樣的一個服務設施那主要是用在長城線因為長城的這個飛行比較遠所以有需要這樣的一個服務設施"},{"start":872.837,"end":898.063,"text":"那至於是不是有需要來修訂相關AOA規定的部分我想這個這個案件我們會整體來看整個華航其實主要是在一個執行過程中這個整個通報的機制包含他處理的機制包含組員的教育訓練等等那這個部分我們會請競速來做一個檢討好那這個檢討還有研議報告一個月可以給我們中南委員會來做參考好謝謝"},{"start":902.406,"end":907.337,"text":"好 謝謝王偉 謝謝局長一個月 謝謝委員會在這邊做一個宣告"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":863,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（12時5分）好，謝謝主席。還是麻煩洪部長。"],["主席：來，部長。"],["洪部長申翰：王委員，午安。"],["王委員正旭：你好。不好意思，都沒有時間讓你稍微喘口氣、喝個水。不過這一次長榮空服員的憾事，大家都覺得非常遺憾，畢竟是一個年輕的生命，也激發了社會對於公司管理的限度跟合理性的討論。早上很多委員都已經有跟你討論這些事情，不過我們還是必須從制度上深入瞭解。從這個個案來看整體的制度，特別是在勞工請假權益的保障，還有禁止不利益待遇的強度跟範圍，應該怎麼來處理。這部分部長其實也是專家，所以利用這個機會來跟您就教。大家在每天非常繁忙工作的同時對於如何能夠好好處理假期，讓身心可以有效回復，非常重要，而且需要大家一起來關注，身為勞動部最大的負責人，對於勞工的請假，應該是非常關注，針對勞動的法規，我們也了解，在勞工請假過程裡面，目前有不同的法源的規定，包括在性平法上面有針對生理假等等，做了一些相關的安排，尤其在禁止不利益待遇的保障上面，做了非常強烈的規範，要求雇主不得拒絕，還有在接受這樣的請求的時候，不能夠用其他方式讓這樣請假的美意或者是這些假期的美意受到影響，包括不能夠當作缺勤而影響獎金、考績等等，我們可以看到性平工作法第十四條至第二十一條做了非常完整的規範。勞基法第四十三條及勞工請假規則裡面有不同的假別，可是針對禁止不利益待遇的部分，要求就沒有那麼高，只能要求不得扣發全勤獎金。以今天這個個案為例，這個人是生病需要請假，目前在勞基法第四十三條所看到的，就是依普通傷病假來處理，目前並沒有任何有關於禁止不利益對待的保障，只有要求沒有超過30天的話，公司折半發給，這就是請假的結果。針對這樣的問題，從制度上面、從法條上面，我們必須要重新來省思，如何能夠讓禁止不利益對待的美意落實到未來在各方面的請假或給假的時候，可以提供更好的處理模式。從今年10月10日開始，根據目前賴總統在健康臺灣推動委員會的指示之下所辦理的一個方式，就是公務人員可以根據規定來請假，除了家庭照顧假以外，還有增加身心調適假，每個人可以每年享有三天的身心調適假，這個部分的美意就在於可併入事假，不需要檢附任何證明，機關不得拒絕，也不得有不利益的對待，意思就是說，對於禁止不利益的處分，其實是有達到最高的規格，所以相對來講，未來勞動部在這方面能不能夠參考公務人員新增三天身心調適假的政策，提供勞工朋友相同的待遇？當然這個部分可能會有不同的形式，比如是要設一個新的調適假，還是要從病假裡面去框出，或者是從事假裡面去框出，如果有好的立法技術，那這個強度是不是也要如同公務人員的保障一樣？到底一年要幾天？當然天數少就可以比照公務人員，如果天數多，相對的保護強度可以稍微有效地調控，這部分不知道部長目前有沒有相關的想法？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，這一次的事件也引發了社會對於勞工權益的討論，尤其是討論病假相關的權益會不會有一些比較制度性的阻礙的問題，我還是表達幾個部分，第一個部分是，如果勞工請病假被雇主拒絕的話，我想這就是直接違反勞基法了，如果事業規模大、違反人數高，或者是情節嚴重的話，最高就是罰150萬元。","第二個，我們在這段時間也是在檢視，比方全勤獎金，其實在一些法院的判決裡面，都已經把它視為是勞工工資的一部分。如果是勞工工資的一部分的話，勞工請病假就被沒收整個月的全勤獎金，我們認為這是不合理的狀況，所以針對這部分，我們也在研議用比較制度性的方式來保障。至於不利益對待的部分，因為不利益對待的範疇其實滿大的，樣態很多，請病假的樣態也滿多的，我也是請我們同仁本著一個原則，這個原則當然就是我們的確不希望勞工生病卻要硬撐著不休息，這個事情還被公司用制度來做制度性的鼓勵，這個事情我們也不樂見，所以在這個概念下，檢視病假跟現在被認知為不利益對待的部分，在相關權利上面，是不是有再多一點調整的空間？勞工明明生病到該請病假了，卻還硬撐著上班，變成是一種對企業付出的正面效益或績效，我覺得這大概不符合社會的期待，甚至可能未來會製造更多的問題。"],["王委員正旭：是，的確。社會情況在不同的轉變之下，如何能夠針對勞工朋友有更友善的做法，這個要麻煩部長持續關注。其實從這個個案裡面，我們也知道，這位空服員在上機之前，因為身體有些狀況需要臨時請特休，這類狀況應如何幫助，讓他在請假的過程裡面更為安心？剛剛部長有提到範圍跟強度到底要用到哪裡，這個真的是很需要好好地瞭解跟規範。未來如果有類似的狀況，勞工臨時請特休，那我們也知道，空服員的工作剛好是其他人有假期要出國旅遊或是做其他安排的時候出勤最多，如果要請假或出勤以後的調整，這個部分能不能夠進入到不利益待遇的部分，可以減到最低？還有任何的法定假別，是不是都要列入相關的規範？這部分可能就是要麻煩部裡面做一些研議，那這個研議看能不能在一個月給委員會相關的報告？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，特休當然就是完全要給付工資，而且也是一樣，選擇權完全是在勞工手上，只要雇主拒絕的話，那就直接違法。剛剛王委員講到的狀況，或者長榮的狀況，我們會整體地來做一些評估，可是我們現在看到長榮的一些狀況，我覺得當然有規範性的問題，裡面也有他們管理文化上面的狀況，這個管理文化的狀況如果沒有辦法再做一些調整，其實我們也很擔心類似的狀況會一直發生，所以這是為什麼我們很希望，也很支持公司必須要跟工會真的好好坐下來協商，應該面對員工，尤其是基層的機組員很實質身體上和安全上的需求，這是我們的立場。"],["王委員正旭：是，我相信百工百業都有其特別的文化及各方面的需求，所以這部分就麻煩部裡面持續地研議。","再過來，目前到底我們有沒有比較完整的數據，可以知道勞工朋友使用病假的狀況的調查？因為我們發現，目前在部裡面有113年勞工生活及就業狀況調查的報告，這份報告只針對於加班和特別休假的情形做相關的問卷調查，得到每一個勞工在一年裡面假期的運用，可是好像沒有「病假」這個欄位。我們知道，現在生活比較緊張或有相關的問題，所以在未來是不是可以把病假的狀況調查也列為每一個年度的調查內容。"],["洪部長申翰：因為王委員有關心這個事情，所以我們回去看了一下，目前的確只是針對特休調查，那我認為把病假加入到使用狀況調查的項目跟欄位裡面，我們應該是可以來做的。"],["王委員正旭：好，那就麻煩你們，這一部分也能夠加進來。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["王委員正旭：麻煩部長先回座休息。","最後一個問題，我要請教一下民航局何局長，如何能夠改善今天碰到的這個困境？因為我們也知道，根據AOR第二百三十一條規定，當飛機在飛航之前，如果有組員發生問題的時候，機長有權責來做一些處置。如果在飛行當中，組員因為疲勞、疾病或各種因素而嚴重影響執行權責能力的時候，機長可以中止飛航並就近降落，做必要的處置，這個是我們看到的AOR目前對於組員身體狀況不佳或發生相關問題的時候，機長應做處置的相關規範，當然機長是有他的職責，可是以他的專業能不能做這樣的判斷？除了機長本身持續加強本職學能以外，如何能夠有更好的評估機制？我相信這個案件應該可以給民航局及交通部參考。如何能夠改善上機前的檢查評估機制？未來能不能夠在交通部、民航局的主持之下，召集相關的部會或學會一起來研議，包括剛剛所提到的有關上機前的評估能不能夠更具體，機上緊急狀況的處置要有一定的SOP，而不是請機長來做一些直接判斷、處置而已。第三項，我們也知道，現在Medlink是一個可以引用的新科技，將來有沒有必要把它變成一個必要的服務內容？還有最後一項，AOR的規定中，關於機長的權責跟他的專業，有沒有必要就這些內容進行修訂或研究？針對這部分，何局長的高見為何？"],["何局長淑萍：好，謝謝委員的提示。委員剛剛講到上機前的檢查，其實有另外一個條文，如果是民用航空運輸業，因為這邊提的是普通航空業，而普通航空業講的是直升機，所以這邊提的是直升機如何處理。如果是民用航空運輸業，就是指長榮、華航這一種，機長的部分有機長的處理，空服組員依照相關規定的手冊，就是由組員相互確認，事務長要做最後的處理，以上是上機前的檢查。那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議上機前的交互檢查，確認組員的身體健康狀況，我們可以參考委員的意見，再來看看如何精進。","第二個就是緊急醫療處置的部分，機上的話，如果是打Medlink這一些，其實是會透過空中查詢，然後由機組員處理，機長是不會去涉及這些處理的。目前來講，因為Medlink是一種選擇性的服務，由航空公司去採買這樣的系統，目前長榮、華航和星宇都有這樣的服務設施，主要是用在長程線，因為長程的飛行距離比較遠，所以需要這樣的服務設施。至於是不是有需要修訂相關AOR規定？這個案件我們會就整體來看，其實長榮的問題主要是在執行過程中的通報機制，包含處理的機制、組員的教育訓練等等，這個部分我們會做盡速檢討。"],["王委員正旭：這份檢討和研議報告一個月內送到委員會參考。"],["何局長淑萍：是，謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員，謝謝局長，相關報告在一個月內送來，謝謝。先作宣告：待會兒羅廷瑋委員詢答結束之後，先休息到一點讓各位用餐。因為等一下質詢完畢之後，法案宣讀需要兩個多鐘頭，所以也要讓議事組人員有用餐的機會。法案開始進入逐條審查時，相關權責單位留下，其他人可以先行離開，好不好？現在繼續詢答。","請楊瓊瓔委員發言，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":204,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-4","speakers":["劉建國","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","翁曉玲","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林月琴","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","楊曜","張雅琳","洪孟楷","范雲","盧縣一","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148502_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場\n健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員魯明\n哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文\n修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員\n李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業\n安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十一) 委員翁曉玲等23 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五\n條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 十三) 委員劉建國等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員沈發\n惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正\n草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員\n王鴻薇等19 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 委員郭昱晴等17 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案【綜合詢答】","agenda_id":"1148502_00001"}}}