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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,117 --> 00:00:20,030\n謝謝主席楊瓊發言邀請部長邀請部長楊元武安\n\n2\n00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:46,021\n非常好我們還是來討論最近新聞的焦點長榮航空這一個34歲的孫姓空服員這個事件發生讓我們認為在整個過程當中政府的立場跟政府可以怎麼樣的來協助這個是大家非常想聽到的\n\n3\n00:00:47,369 --> 00:01:02,118\n那要求全面的檢討空勤管理的制度跟出勤的一個規範在這一次呢職災的相關議題當中那工會也特別揭露了在請假\n\n4\n00:01:03,328 --> 00:01:29,297\n尤其是請病假在臨時特休那似乎是設有懲罰性的一個規範而且會影響到考級航班的一個排班甚至特定時段加重處分那致使員工雖然表面上是可以請假但是員工是實際上不敢請假所以如果真的是如此的話他就是違法\n\n5\n00:01:30,217 --> 00:01:56,438\n如果真的是如此企業也沒有盡到保護勞工的一個安全健康所以在這邊首先請教部長目前你們調查的進度到底是如何那我們要怎麼樣去保障空服員的員工的一個權益那政府又要怎麼樣的去落實在整個勞檢方面如何的去保障勞工的一個權益請做說明\n\n6\n00:01:57,833 --> 00:02:22,424\n跟姚委員說明那現在當然在前天那星期一那我們職安署有跟桃園市交檢處那有到長榮來去做這個初步的了解那可是外界也都是希望在這事情上面我們不應該只聽公司一方的說法所以我們接下來也會來約訪\n\n7\n00:02:23,985 --> 00:02:48,226\n其實跟這個當事組員當時可能Downtown的班機的組員或者相關的戀愛相關人包括工會工會本身也希望能夠提到得到確認到底事實是如何然後如何去保障如何去改進所以本席要請教因為是一個時事議題本席也不希望說大家\n\n8\n00:02:51,769 --> 00:03:08,834\n太長的時間去不知政府在做什麼所以我仍舊希望政府在積極的態度跟立場跟動作能夠讓社會大眾去清楚我們當然要主動而且要很積極主動跟積極是本事要請教因為確實要訪談的人會那你們預估\n\n9\n00:03:13,035 --> 00:03:25,288\n你們預估大概會多久的時間可以給社會大眾給工會給我們這一些這個空服員他們能夠知道一個答案這部分因為訪談的確需要一點時間\n\n10\n00:03:29,452 --> 00:03:51,170\n當然是要時間所以本席才要請問你你們自己設定的時間點到底會在哪裡讓大家可以知道我覺得相關的訪談第一個因為要看約不約得到因為要看那個約的時間因為有些做任何事情必須要有BBI細節的部分我想不是你在說的至少是希望可能兩週吧好不好\n\n11\n00:03:51,570 --> 00:04:20,505\n兩週的時間然後我們來瞭解就是來瞭解相關該約訪的我們盡量來約訪你剛才說了要積極的這個態度那大概我們現在得到一個答案也就是兩週內你會大概有一個方向盡量來約訪有一個方向給社會大眾知道真正的原因以及你政府要怎麼樣去做調整讓我們所有的空服員能夠安心是不是如此\n\n12\n00:04:21,505 --> 00:04:40,572\n就調查跟訪談的部分接下來本席要請教因為這一次的這個治安修正裡頭我們為了要加強建築工程營建過程的一個安全來做把關所以行政院也提出了15條之一的規範\n\n13\n00:04:42,173 --> 00:05:04,053\n要求業主必須在一定規模的工程交互設計或施工時還有就是設計者或者是施工者應該在事前實施風險評估消除危害的根源並採行必要的植栽預防設備跟措施\n\n14\n00:05:05,094 --> 00:05:28,046\n但是本席也接到相關包括建築師公會以及有很多的會員他們有所提出他們提出的也就是說目前如果以行政院版本會觸及到相關的法規尤其是在建築師職業的一個實務跟他們權責是有所抵觸的\n\n15\n00:05:28,826 --> 00:05:49,064\n所以本席也希望因為本席今天也提出了15條之一的一個修正動議也已經送到主席台這邊來那本席也希望在我們在制定任何的一個條文的時候必須要跟相關相關的工會要去好好的去討論\n\n16\n00:05:50,425 --> 00:06:17,146\n因為當你提出的時候建築師會有這樣的一個質疑他們非常負責任但是問題是你在施工的這個期間施工的這個期間那包括甚至還要包括到他施工營造業者他所聘請的這個勞工甚至外籍義工這一些都包含在他的監督規範之內\n\n17\n00:06:18,547 --> 00:06:29,180\n那如果我們來看建築師的相關法規是建築師經過業者的需求去設計規範提出建造\n\n18\n00:06:33,926 --> 00:07:03,028\n建築師接下來的重點工作是什麼依照我們的法規也就是你必須你必須你必須要嚴格的去執行他所畫出來的圖說到底有沒有在營建商的時候他在施工的時候有沒有依照政府所規範他們設計出來政府所認可的建造的時候的一個\n\n19\n00:07:04,246 --> 00:07:24,491\n他的圖說要去執行到位要去執行到位所以在建築師公會或者是這個他們也提出提出意見所以他們有提出的相關那本席也提出在我們的條文的第15條之一也就是\n\n20\n00:07:26,811 --> 00:07:48,681\n這個我們必須要提出事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交互規劃設計時應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程的特性去分析潛在的施工危害這個是本席以下這些所提出的15條之一\n\n21\n00:07:50,462 --> 00:08:13,572\n我要請教部長因為建築師公會有這麼大的一個聲音出來本席首先在你回答之前我希望我們要有這個營建的安全性這個是非常的重要而且這個作品也必須要能夠如實如期的去完成這是我們最終的目標\n\n22\n00:08:14,853 --> 00:08:41,392\n但是在整個調整的過程當中是否有跟相關執行者去充分討論這是本席非常重視的必須要相關單位好好的去討論能夠達成一個共識這樣子在未來你公布你執行的方案的時候才能夠真正去落實讚不讚同這樣的一個一個過程流程跟方式\n\n23\n00:08:42,273 --> 00:08:57,133\n我跟嚴偉說明很清楚也就是你認同是這樣子的一個邏輯我先表達第一個15條之一這一次在我們的修法裡面是非常非常關鍵的條文\n\n24\n00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:16,102\n那在這個條文裡面它的責任基本上是框在業主身上的所以可能建築師或者是設計者不用太擔心因為這是框在業主身上但這個條文要表達的是一個工程它在前面的規劃跟設計階段它就要做安全風險的分析\n\n25\n00:09:17,583 --> 00:09:32,260\n那比較能夠讓在執行或者是在施作的時候能夠按照這個安全風險分析去做相關的風險管理跟執行因為我們的確看到很多的案例如果在前面的規劃跟設計階段不具有安全\n\n26\n00:09:33,862 --> 00:09:54,115\n風險設計的概念的時候有的時候會讓後續的執行非常的困難或者是承擔很大的風險而這個想法跟概念也是現在很多國家它去做這個職安的管理的時候非常重要的部分就是把它有點是它是源頭的溯源在規劃跟設計的階段就把風險管理的部分給規劃好\n\n27\n00:09:55,256 --> 00:10:10,677\n在後續執行跟施工的時候才能夠比較大程度的避免風險這部分很重要可是他的責任是框在業主身上的所以相關的設計者規劃者不用太擔心所以我們的條文應該是我們是從這個角度來去設計這個條文的\n\n28\n00:10:12,441 --> 00:10:37,175\n好謝謝部長你的說辭你請他們不用太設計者不用去太擔心但是他們現在是擔心的這也就是剛才我跟本席跟你討論的當你要發布一個政策或者是你的調整那你必須跟相關的這個執行者相關的工會好好去討論我們會來跟工會好好說明我們的這個概念因為今天\n\n29\n00:10:42,058 --> 00:11:00,636\n剛剛本席特別問了主席我們今天只處理到第二條所以這個等於是在整個條文裡頭如果歸列是在第六條所以換句話說我們還有一些時間剛剛部長您也承諾會跟工會來做討論我也希望在本席所提出的15條之一\n\n30\n00:11:02,057 --> 00:11:19,834\n能夠得到行政部門的一個同意我們好好的達成這樣的共識讓我們在整個營建部分能夠更加的安全而且職權在相關的法律面它是完整的而且是清楚的\n\n31\n00:11:21,008 --> 00:11:34,734\n我們可以在這個逐條的時候那針對這個條文他設計的原意我們可以來做好好的審議討論好好的審議討論這是當然但是您剛才說了會跟工會好好的來討論是來討論對不對好加油好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8117\t20030\t謝謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請部長邀請部長楊元武安\n20700\t46021\t非常好 我們還是來討論最近新聞的焦點長榮航空這一個34歲的孫姓空服員這個事件發生讓我們認為在整個過程當中政府的立場跟政府可以怎麼樣的來協助這個是大家非常想聽到的\n47369\t62118\t那要求全面的檢討空勤管理的制度跟出勤的一個規範在這一次呢 職災的相關議題當中那工會也特別揭露了在請假\n63328\t89297\t尤其是請病假在臨時特休那似乎是設有懲罰性的一個規範而且會影響到考級航班的一個排班甚至特定時段加重處分那致使員工雖然表面上是可以請假但是員工是實際上不敢請假所以如果真的是如此的話他就是違法\n90217\t116438\t如果真的是如此企業也沒有盡到保護勞工的一個安全健康所以在這邊首先請教部長目前你們調查的進度到底是如何那我們要怎麼樣去保障空服員的員工的一個權益那政府又要怎麼樣的去落實在整個勞檢方面如何的去保障勞工的一個權益請做說明\n117833\t142424\t跟姚委員說明那現在當然在前天那星期一那我們職安署有跟桃園市交檢處那有到長榮來去做這個初步的了解那可是外界也都是希望在這事情上面我們不應該只聽公司一方的說法所以我們接下來也會來約訪\n143985\t168226\t其實跟這個當事組員當時可能Downtown的班機的組員或者相關的戀愛相關人包括工會工會本身也希望能夠提到得到確認到底事實是如何然後如何去保障 如何去改進所以本席要請教因為是一個時事議題本席也不希望說大家\n171769\t188834\t太長的時間去不知政府在做什麼所以我仍舊希望政府在積極的態度跟立場跟動作能夠讓社會大眾去清楚我們當然要主動而且要很積極主動跟積極是本事要請教因為確實要訪談的人會那你們預估\n193035\t205288\t你們預估大概會多久的時間可以給社會大眾給工會給我們這一些這個空服員他們能夠知道一個答案這部分因為訪談的確需要一點時間\n209452\t231170\t當然是要時間所以本席才要請問你你們自己設定的時間點到底會在哪裡讓大家可以知道我覺得相關的訪談第一個因為要看約不約得到因為要看那個約的時間因為有些做任何事情必須要有BBI細節的部分我想不是你在說的至少是希望可能兩週吧好不好\n231570\t260505\t兩週的時間然後我們來瞭解就是來瞭解相關該約訪的我們盡量來約訪你剛才說了要積極的這個態度那大概我們現在得到一個答案也就是兩週內你會大概有一個方向盡量來約訪有一個方向給社會大眾知道真正的原因以及你政府要怎麼樣去做調整讓我們所有的空服員能夠安心是不是如此\n261505\t280572\t就調查跟訪談的部分接下來本席要請教因為這一次的這個治安修正裡頭我們為了要加強建築工程營建過程的一個安全來做把關所以行政院也提出了15條之一的規範\n282173\t304053\t要求業主必須在一定規模的工程交互設計或施工時還有就是設計者或者是施工者應該在事前實施風險評估消除危害的根源並採行必要的植栽預防設備跟措施\n305094\t328046\t但是本席也接到相關包括建築師公會以及有很多的會員他們有所提出他們提出的也就是說目前如果以行政院版本會觸及到相關的法規尤其是在建築師職業的一個實務跟他們權責是有所抵觸的\n328826\t349064\t所以本席也希望因為本席今天也提出了15條之一的一個修正動議也已經送到主席台這邊來那本席也希望在我們在制定任何的一個條文的時候必須要跟相關相關的工會要去好好的去討論\n350425\t377146\t因為當你提出的時候建築師會有這樣的一個質疑他們非常負責任但是問題是你在施工的這個期間施工的這個期間那包括甚至還要包括到他施工營造業者他所聘請的這個勞工甚至外籍義工這一些都包含在他的監督規範之內\n378547\t389180\t那如果我們來看建築師的相關法規是建築師經過業者的需求去設計規範提出建造\n393926\t423028\t建築師接下來的重點工作是什麼依照我們的法規也就是你必須你必須你必須要嚴格的去執行他所畫出來的圖說到底有沒有在營建商的時候他在施工的時候有沒有依照政府所規範他們設計出來政府所認可的建造的時候的一個\n424246\t444491\t他的圖說要去執行到位要去執行到位所以在建築師公會或者是這個他們也提出提出意見所以他們有提出的相關那本席也提出在我們的條文的第15條之一也就是\n446811\t468681\t這個我們必須要提出事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交互規劃設計時應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程的特性去分析潛在的施工危害這個是本席以下這些所提出的15條之一\n470462\t493572\t我要請教部長因為建築師公會有這麼大的一個聲音出來本席首先在你回答之前我希望我們要有這個營建的安全性這個是非常的重要而且這個作品也必須要能夠如實如期的去完成這是我們最終的目標\n494853\t521392\t但是在整個調整的過程當中是否有跟相關執行者去充分討論這是本席非常重視的必須要相關單位好好的去討論能夠達成一個共識這樣子在未來你公布你執行的方案的時候才能夠真正去落實 讚不讚同這樣的一個一個過程流程跟方式\n522273\t537133\t我跟嚴偉說明很清楚也就是你認同是這樣子的一個邏輯我先表達第一個15條之一這一次在我們的修法裡面是非常非常關鍵的條文\n539036\t556102\t那在這個條文裡面它的責任基本上是框在業主身上的所以可能建築師或者是設計者不用太擔心因為這是框在業主身上但這個條文要表達的是一個工程它在前面的規劃跟設計階段它就要做安全風險的分析\n557583\t572260\t那比較能夠讓在執行或者是在施作的時候能夠按照這個安全風險分析去做相關的風險管理跟執行因為我們的確看到很多的案例如果在前面的規劃跟設計階段不具有安全\n573862\t594115\t風險設計的概念的時候有的時候會讓後續的執行非常的困難或者是承擔很大的風險而這個想法跟概念也是現在很多國家它去做這個職安的管理的時候非常重要的部分就是把它有點是它是源頭的溯源在規劃跟設計的階段就把風險管理的部分給規劃好\n595256\t610677\t在後續執行跟施工的時候才能夠比較大程度的避免風險這部分很重要可是他的責任是框在業主身上的所以相關的設計者規劃者不用太擔心所以我們的條文應該是我們是從這個角度來去設計這個條文的\n612441\t637175\t好 謝謝部長你的說辭你請他們不用太 設計者不用去太擔心但是他們現在是擔心的這也就是剛才我跟本席跟你討論的當你要發布一個政策或者是你的調整那你必須跟相關的這個執行者 相關的工會好好去討論我們會來跟工會好好說明我們的這個概念因為今天\n642058\t660636\t剛剛本席特別問了主席我們今天只處理到第二條所以這個等於是在整個條文裡頭如果歸列是在第六條所以換句話說我們還有一些時間剛剛部長您也承諾會跟工會來做討論我也希望在本席所提出的15條之一\n662057\t679834\t能夠得到行政部門的一個同意我們好好的達成這樣的共識讓我們在整個營建部分能夠更加的安全而且職權在相關的法律面它是完整的 而且是清楚的\n681008\t694734\t我們可以在這個逐條的時候那針對這個條文他設計的原意我們可以來做好好的審議討論好好的審議討論這是當然但是您剛才說了會跟工會好好的來討論是來討論對不對好加油好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請部長邀請部長楊元武安\n非常好 我們還是來討論最近新聞的焦點長榮航空這一個34歲的孫姓空服員這個事件發生讓我們認為在整個過程當中政府的立場跟政府可以怎麼樣的來協助這個是大家非常想聽到的\n那要求全面的檢討空勤管理的制度跟出勤的一個規範在這一次呢 職災的相關議題當中那工會也特別揭露了在請假\n尤其是請病假在臨時特休那似乎是設有懲罰性的一個規範而且會影響到考級航班的一個排班甚至特定時段加重處分那致使員工雖然表面上是可以請假但是員工是實際上不敢請假所以如果真的是如此的話他就是違法\n如果真的是如此企業也沒有盡到保護勞工的一個安全健康所以在這邊首先請教部長目前你們調查的進度到底是如何那我們要怎麼樣去保障空服員的員工的一個權益那政府又要怎麼樣的去落實在整個勞檢方面如何的去保障勞工的一個權益請做說明\n跟姚委員說明那現在當然在前天那星期一那我們職安署有跟桃園市交檢處那有到長榮來去做這個初步的了解那可是外界也都是希望在這事情上面我們不應該只聽公司一方的說法所以我們接下來也會來約訪\n其實跟這個當事組員當時可能Downtown的班機的組員或者相關的戀愛相關人包括工會工會本身也希望能夠提到得到確認到底事實是如何然後如何去保障 如何去改進所以本席要請教因為是一個時事議題本席也不希望說大家\n太長的時間去不知政府在做什麼所以我仍舊希望政府在積極的態度跟立場跟動作能夠讓社會大眾去清楚我們當然要主動而且要很積極主動跟積極是本事要請教因為確實要訪談的人會那你們預估\n你們預估大概會多久的時間可以給社會大眾給工會給我們這一些這個空服員他們能夠知道一個答案這部分因為訪談的確需要一點時間\n當然是要時間所以本席才要請問你你們自己設定的時間點到底會在哪裡讓大家可以知道我覺得相關的訪談第一個因為要看約不約得到因為要看那個約的時間因為有些做任何事情必須要有BBI細節的部分我想不是你在說的至少是希望可能兩週吧好不好\n兩週的時間然後我們來瞭解就是來瞭解相關該約訪的我們盡量來約訪你剛才說了要積極的這個態度那大概我們現在得到一個答案也就是兩週內你會大概有一個方向盡量來約訪有一個方向給社會大眾知道真正的原因以及你政府要怎麼樣去做調整讓我們所有的空服員能夠安心是不是如此\n就調查跟訪談的部分接下來本席要請教因為這一次的這個治安修正裡頭我們為了要加強建築工程營建過程的一個安全來做把關所以行政院也提出了15條之一的規範\n要求業主必須在一定規模的工程交互設計或施工時還有就是設計者或者是施工者應該在事前實施風險評估消除危害的根源並採行必要的植栽預防設備跟措施\n但是本席也接到相關包括建築師公會以及有很多的會員他們有所提出他們提出的也就是說目前如果以行政院版本會觸及到相關的法規尤其是在建築師職業的一個實務跟他們權責是有所抵觸的\n所以本席也希望因為本席今天也提出了15條之一的一個修正動議也已經送到主席台這邊來那本席也希望在我們在制定任何的一個條文的時候必須要跟相關相關的工會要去好好的去討論\n因為當你提出的時候建築師會有這樣的一個質疑他們非常負責任但是問題是你在施工的這個期間施工的這個期間那包括甚至還要包括到他施工營造業者他所聘請的這個勞工甚至外籍義工這一些都包含在他的監督規範之內\n那如果我們來看建築師的相關法規是建築師經過業者的需求去設計規範提出建造\n建築師接下來的重點工作是什麼依照我們的法規也就是你必須你必須你必須要嚴格的去執行他所畫出來的圖說到底有沒有在營建商的時候他在施工的時候有沒有依照政府所規範他們設計出來政府所認可的建造的時候的一個\n他的圖說要去執行到位要去執行到位所以在建築師公會或者是這個他們也提出提出意見所以他們有提出的相關那本席也提出在我們的條文的第15條之一也就是\n這個我們必須要提出事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交互規劃設計時應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程的特性去分析潛在的施工危害這個是本席以下這些所提出的15條之一\n我要請教部長因為建築師公會有這麼大的一個聲音出來本席首先在你回答之前我希望我們要有這個營建的安全性這個是非常的重要而且這個作品也必須要能夠如實如期的去完成這是我們最終的目標\n但是在整個調整的過程當中是否有跟相關執行者去充分討論這是本席非常重視的必須要相關單位好好的去討論能夠達成一個共識這樣子在未來你公布你執行的方案的時候才能夠真正去落實 讚不讚同這樣的一個一個過程流程跟方式\n我跟嚴偉說明很清楚也就是你認同是這樣子的一個邏輯我先表達第一個15條之一這一次在我們的修法裡面是非常非常關鍵的條文\n那在這個條文裡面它的責任基本上是框在業主身上的所以可能建築師或者是設計者不用太擔心因為這是框在業主身上但這個條文要表達的是一個工程它在前面的規劃跟設計階段它就要做安全風險的分析\n那比較能夠讓在執行或者是在施作的時候能夠按照這個安全風險分析去做相關的風險管理跟執行因為我們的確看到很多的案例如果在前面的規劃跟設計階段不具有安全\n風險設計的概念的時候有的時候會讓後續的執行非常的困難或者是承擔很大的風險而這個想法跟概念也是現在很多國家它去做這個職安的管理的時候非常重要的部分就是把它有點是它是源頭的溯源在規劃跟設計的階段就把風險管理的部分給規劃好\n在後續執行跟施工的時候才能夠比較大程度的避免風險這部分很重要可是他的責任是框在業主身上的所以相關的設計者規劃者不用太擔心所以我們的條文應該是我們是從這個角度來去設計這個條文的\n好 謝謝部長你的說辭你請他們不用太 設計者不用去太擔心但是他們現在是擔心的這也就是剛才我跟本席跟你討論的當你要發布一個政策或者是你的調整那你必須跟相關的這個執行者 相關的工會好好去討論我們會來跟工會好好說明我們的這個概念因為今天\n剛剛本席特別問了主席我們今天只處理到第二條所以這個等於是在整個條文裡頭如果歸列是在第六條所以換句話說我們還有一些時間剛剛部長您也承諾會跟工會來做討論我也希望在本席所提出的15條之一\n能夠得到行政部門的一個同意我們好好的達成這樣的共識讓我們在整個營建部分能夠更加的安全而且職權在相關的法律面它是完整的 而且是清楚的\n我們可以在這個逐條的時候那針對這個條文他設計的原意我們可以來做好好的審議討論好好的審議討論這是當然但是您剛才說了會跟工會好好的來討論是來討論對不對好加油好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.117 --> 00:20.030\n謝謝主席楊瓊發言邀請部長邀請部長楊元武安\n\n00:20.700 --> 00:46.021\n非常好我們還是來討論最近新聞的焦點長榮航空這一個34歲的孫姓空服員這個事件發生讓我們認為在整個過程當中政府的立場跟政府可以怎麼樣的來協助這個是大家非常想聽到的\n\n00:47.369 --> 01:02.118\n那要求全面的檢討空勤管理的制度跟出勤的一個規範在這一次呢職災的相關議題當中那工會也特別揭露了在請假\n\n01:03.328 --> 01:29.297\n尤其是請病假在臨時特休那似乎是設有懲罰性的一個規範而且會影響到考級航班的一個排班甚至特定時段加重處分那致使員工雖然表面上是可以請假但是員工是實際上不敢請假所以如果真的是如此的話他就是違法\n\n01:30.217 --> 01:56.438\n如果真的是如此企業也沒有盡到保護勞工的一個安全健康所以在這邊首先請教部長目前你們調查的進度到底是如何那我們要怎麼樣去保障空服員的員工的一個權益那政府又要怎麼樣的去落實在整個勞檢方面如何的去保障勞工的一個權益請做說明\n\n01:57.833 --> 02:22.424\n跟姚委員說明那現在當然在前天那星期一那我們職安署有跟桃園市交檢處那有到長榮來去做這個初步的了解那可是外界也都是希望在這事情上面我們不應該只聽公司一方的說法所以我們接下來也會來約訪\n\n02:23.985 --> 02:48.226\n其實跟這個當事組員當時可能Downtown的班機的組員或者相關的戀愛相關人包括工會工會本身也希望能夠提到得到確認到底事實是如何然後如何去保障如何去改進所以本席要請教因為是一個時事議題本席也不希望說大家\n\n02:51.769 --> 03:08.834\n太長的時間去不知政府在做什麼所以我仍舊希望政府在積極的態度跟立場跟動作能夠讓社會大眾去清楚我們當然要主動而且要很積極主動跟積極是本事要請教因為確實要訪談的人會那你們預估\n\n03:13.035 --> 03:25.288\n你們預估大概會多久的時間可以給社會大眾給工會給我們這一些這個空服員他們能夠知道一個答案這部分因為訪談的確需要一點時間\n\n03:29.452 --> 03:51.170\n當然是要時間所以本席才要請問你你們自己設定的時間點到底會在哪裡讓大家可以知道我覺得相關的訪談第一個因為要看約不約得到因為要看那個約的時間因為有些做任何事情必須要有BBI細節的部分我想不是你在說的至少是希望可能兩週吧好不好\n\n03:51.570 --> 04:20.505\n兩週的時間然後我們來瞭解就是來瞭解相關該約訪的我們盡量來約訪你剛才說了要積極的這個態度那大概我們現在得到一個答案也就是兩週內你會大概有一個方向盡量來約訪有一個方向給社會大眾知道真正的原因以及你政府要怎麼樣去做調整讓我們所有的空服員能夠安心是不是如此\n\n04:21.505 --> 04:40.572\n就調查跟訪談的部分接下來本席要請教因為這一次的這個治安修正裡頭我們為了要加強建築工程營建過程的一個安全來做把關所以行政院也提出了15條之一的規範\n\n04:42.173 --> 05:04.053\n要求業主必須在一定規模的工程交互設計或施工時還有就是設計者或者是施工者應該在事前實施風險評估消除危害的根源並採行必要的植栽預防設備跟措施\n\n05:05.094 --> 05:28.046\n但是本席也接到相關包括建築師公會以及有很多的會員他們有所提出他們提出的也就是說目前如果以行政院版本會觸及到相關的法規尤其是在建築師職業的一個實務跟他們權責是有所抵觸的\n\n05:28.826 --> 05:49.064\n所以本席也希望因為本席今天也提出了15條之一的一個修正動議也已經送到主席台這邊來那本席也希望在我們在制定任何的一個條文的時候必須要跟相關相關的工會要去好好的去討論\n\n05:50.425 --> 06:17.146\n因為當你提出的時候建築師會有這樣的一個質疑他們非常負責任但是問題是你在施工的這個期間施工的這個期間那包括甚至還要包括到他施工營造業者他所聘請的這個勞工甚至外籍義工這一些都包含在他的監督規範之內\n\n06:18.547 --> 06:29.180\n那如果我們來看建築師的相關法規是建築師經過業者的需求去設計規範提出建造\n\n06:33.926 --> 07:03.028\n建築師接下來的重點工作是什麼依照我們的法規也就是你必須你必須你必須要嚴格的去執行他所畫出來的圖說到底有沒有在營建商的時候他在施工的時候有沒有依照政府所規範他們設計出來政府所認可的建造的時候的一個\n\n07:04.246 --> 07:24.491\n他的圖說要去執行到位要去執行到位所以在建築師公會或者是這個他們也提出提出意見所以他們有提出的相關那本席也提出在我們的條文的第15條之一也就是\n\n07:26.811 --> 07:48.681\n這個我們必須要提出事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交互規劃設計時應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程的特性去分析潛在的施工危害這個是本席以下這些所提出的15條之一\n\n07:50.462 --> 08:13.572\n我要請教部長因為建築師公會有這麼大的一個聲音出來本席首先在你回答之前我希望我們要有這個營建的安全性這個是非常的重要而且這個作品也必須要能夠如實如期的去完成這是我們最終的目標\n\n08:14.853 --> 08:41.392\n但是在整個調整的過程當中是否有跟相關執行者去充分討論這是本席非常重視的必須要相關單位好好的去討論能夠達成一個共識這樣子在未來你公布你執行的方案的時候才能夠真正去落實讚不讚同這樣的一個一個過程流程跟方式\n\n08:42.273 --> 08:57.133\n我跟嚴偉說明很清楚也就是你認同是這樣子的一個邏輯我先表達第一個15條之一這一次在我們的修法裡面是非常非常關鍵的條文\n\n08:59.036 --> 09:16.102\n那在這個條文裡面它的責任基本上是框在業主身上的所以可能建築師或者是設計者不用太擔心因為這是框在業主身上但這個條文要表達的是一個工程它在前面的規劃跟設計階段它就要做安全風險的分析\n\n09:17.583 --> 09:32.260\n那比較能夠讓在執行或者是在施作的時候能夠按照這個安全風險分析去做相關的風險管理跟執行因為我們的確看到很多的案例如果在前面的規劃跟設計階段不具有安全\n\n09:33.862 --> 09:54.115\n風險設計的概念的時候有的時候會讓後續的執行非常的困難或者是承擔很大的風險而這個想法跟概念也是現在很多國家它去做這個職安的管理的時候非常重要的部分就是把它有點是它是源頭的溯源在規劃跟設計的階段就把風險管理的部分給規劃好\n\n09:55.256 --> 10:10.677\n在後續執行跟施工的時候才能夠比較大程度的避免風險這部分很重要可是他的責任是框在業主身上的所以相關的設計者規劃者不用太擔心所以我們的條文應該是我們是從這個角度來去設計這個條文的\n\n10:12.441 --> 10:37.175\n好謝謝部長你的說辭你請他們不用太設計者不用去太擔心但是他們現在是擔心的這也就是剛才我跟本席跟你討論的當你要發布一個政策或者是你的調整那你必須跟相關的這個執行者相關的工會好好去討論我們會來跟工會好好說明我們的這個概念因為今天\n\n10:42.058 --> 11:00.636\n剛剛本席特別問了主席我們今天只處理到第二條所以這個等於是在整個條文裡頭如果歸列是在第六條所以換句話說我們還有一些時間剛剛部長您也承諾會跟工會來做討論我也希望在本席所提出的15條之一\n\n11:02.057 --> 11:19.834\n能夠得到行政部門的一個同意我們好好的達成這樣的共識讓我們在整個營建部分能夠更加的安全而且職權在相關的法律面它是完整的而且是清楚的\n\n11:21.008 --> 11:34.734\n我們可以在這個逐條的時候那針對這個條文他設計的原意我們可以來做好好的審議討論好好的審議討論這是當然但是您剛才說了會跟工會好好的來討論是來討論對不對好加油好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.117,"end":20.03,"text":"謝謝主席 楊瓊發言 邀請部長邀請部長楊元武安"},{"start":20.7,"end":46.021,"text":"非常好 我們還是來討論最近新聞的焦點長榮航空這一個34歲的孫姓空服員這個事件發生讓我們認為在整個過程當中政府的立場跟政府可以怎麼樣的來協助這個是大家非常想聽到的"},{"start":47.369,"end":62.118,"text":"那要求全面的檢討空勤管理的制度跟出勤的一個規範在這一次呢 職災的相關議題當中那工會也特別揭露了在請假"},{"start":63.328,"end":89.297,"text":"尤其是請病假在臨時特休那似乎是設有懲罰性的一個規範而且會影響到考級航班的一個排班甚至特定時段加重處分那致使員工雖然表面上是可以請假但是員工是實際上不敢請假所以如果真的是如此的話他就是違法"},{"start":90.217,"end":116.438,"text":"如果真的是如此企業也沒有盡到保護勞工的一個安全健康所以在這邊首先請教部長目前你們調查的進度到底是如何那我們要怎麼樣去保障空服員的員工的一個權益那政府又要怎麼樣的去落實在整個勞檢方面如何的去保障勞工的一個權益請做說明"},{"start":117.833,"end":142.424,"text":"跟姚委員說明那現在當然在前天那星期一那我們職安署有跟桃園市交檢處那有到長榮來去做這個初步的了解那可是外界也都是希望在這事情上面我們不應該只聽公司一方的說法所以我們接下來也會來約訪"},{"start":143.985,"end":168.226,"text":"其實跟這個當事組員當時可能Downtown的班機的組員或者相關的戀愛相關人包括工會工會本身也希望能夠提到得到確認到底事實是如何然後如何去保障 如何去改進所以本席要請教因為是一個時事議題本席也不希望說大家"},{"start":171.769,"end":188.834,"text":"太長的時間去不知政府在做什麼所以我仍舊希望政府在積極的態度跟立場跟動作能夠讓社會大眾去清楚我們當然要主動而且要很積極主動跟積極是本事要請教因為確實要訪談的人會那你們預估"},{"start":193.035,"end":205.288,"text":"你們預估大概會多久的時間可以給社會大眾給工會給我們這一些這個空服員他們能夠知道一個答案這部分因為訪談的確需要一點時間"},{"start":209.452,"end":231.17,"text":"當然是要時間所以本席才要請問你你們自己設定的時間點到底會在哪裡讓大家可以知道我覺得相關的訪談第一個因為要看約不約得到因為要看那個約的時間因為有些做任何事情必須要有BBI細節的部分我想不是你在說的至少是希望可能兩週吧好不好"},{"start":231.57,"end":260.505,"text":"兩週的時間然後我們來瞭解就是來瞭解相關該約訪的我們盡量來約訪你剛才說了要積極的這個態度那大概我們現在得到一個答案也就是兩週內你會大概有一個方向盡量來約訪有一個方向給社會大眾知道真正的原因以及你政府要怎麼樣去做調整讓我們所有的空服員能夠安心是不是如此"},{"start":261.505,"end":280.572,"text":"就調查跟訪談的部分接下來本席要請教因為這一次的這個治安修正裡頭我們為了要加強建築工程營建過程的一個安全來做把關所以行政院也提出了15條之一的規範"},{"start":282.173,"end":304.053,"text":"要求業主必須在一定規模的工程交互設計或施工時還有就是設計者或者是施工者應該在事前實施風險評估消除危害的根源並採行必要的植栽預防設備跟措施"},{"start":305.094,"end":328.046,"text":"但是本席也接到相關包括建築師公會以及有很多的會員他們有所提出他們提出的也就是說目前如果以行政院版本會觸及到相關的法規尤其是在建築師職業的一個實務跟他們權責是有所抵觸的"},{"start":328.826,"end":349.064,"text":"所以本席也希望因為本席今天也提出了15條之一的一個修正動議也已經送到主席台這邊來那本席也希望在我們在制定任何的一個條文的時候必須要跟相關相關的工會要去好好的去討論"},{"start":350.425,"end":377.146,"text":"因為當你提出的時候建築師會有這樣的一個質疑他們非常負責任但是問題是你在施工的這個期間施工的這個期間那包括甚至還要包括到他施工營造業者他所聘請的這個勞工甚至外籍義工這一些都包含在他的監督規範之內"},{"start":378.547,"end":389.18,"text":"那如果我們來看建築師的相關法規是建築師經過業者的需求去設計規範提出建造"},{"start":393.926,"end":423.028,"text":"建築師接下來的重點工作是什麼依照我們的法規也就是你必須你必須你必須要嚴格的去執行他所畫出來的圖說到底有沒有在營建商的時候他在施工的時候有沒有依照政府所規範他們設計出來政府所認可的建造的時候的一個"},{"start":424.246,"end":444.491,"text":"他的圖說要去執行到位要去執行到位所以在建築師公會或者是這個他們也提出提出意見所以他們有提出的相關那本席也提出在我們的條文的第15條之一也就是"},{"start":446.811,"end":468.681,"text":"這個我們必須要提出事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交互規劃設計時應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程的特性去分析潛在的施工危害這個是本席以下這些所提出的15條之一"},{"start":470.462,"end":493.572,"text":"我要請教部長因為建築師公會有這麼大的一個聲音出來本席首先在你回答之前我希望我們要有這個營建的安全性這個是非常的重要而且這個作品也必須要能夠如實如期的去完成這是我們最終的目標"},{"start":494.853,"end":521.392,"text":"但是在整個調整的過程當中是否有跟相關執行者去充分討論這是本席非常重視的必須要相關單位好好的去討論能夠達成一個共識這樣子在未來你公布你執行的方案的時候才能夠真正去落實 讚不讚同這樣的一個一個過程流程跟方式"},{"start":522.273,"end":537.133,"text":"我跟嚴偉說明很清楚也就是你認同是這樣子的一個邏輯我先表達第一個15條之一這一次在我們的修法裡面是非常非常關鍵的條文"},{"start":539.036,"end":556.102,"text":"那在這個條文裡面它的責任基本上是框在業主身上的所以可能建築師或者是設計者不用太擔心因為這是框在業主身上但這個條文要表達的是一個工程它在前面的規劃跟設計階段它就要做安全風險的分析"},{"start":557.583,"end":572.26,"text":"那比較能夠讓在執行或者是在施作的時候能夠按照這個安全風險分析去做相關的風險管理跟執行因為我們的確看到很多的案例如果在前面的規劃跟設計階段不具有安全"},{"start":573.862,"end":594.115,"text":"風險設計的概念的時候有的時候會讓後續的執行非常的困難或者是承擔很大的風險而這個想法跟概念也是現在很多國家它去做這個職安的管理的時候非常重要的部分就是把它有點是它是源頭的溯源在規劃跟設計的階段就把風險管理的部分給規劃好"},{"start":595.256,"end":610.677,"text":"在後續執行跟施工的時候才能夠比較大程度的避免風險這部分很重要可是他的責任是框在業主身上的所以相關的設計者規劃者不用太擔心所以我們的條文應該是我們是從這個角度來去設計這個條文的"},{"start":612.441,"end":637.175,"text":"好 謝謝部長你的說辭你請他們不用太 設計者不用去太擔心但是他們現在是擔心的這也就是剛才我跟本席跟你討論的當你要發布一個政策或者是你的調整那你必須跟相關的這個執行者 相關的工會好好去討論我們會來跟工會好好說明我們的這個概念因為今天"},{"start":642.058,"end":660.636,"text":"剛剛本席特別問了主席我們今天只處理到第二條所以這個等於是在整個條文裡頭如果歸列是在第六條所以換句話說我們還有一些時間剛剛部長您也承諾會跟工會來做討論我也希望在本席所提出的15條之一"},{"start":662.057,"end":679.834,"text":"能夠得到行政部門的一個同意我們好好的達成這樣的共識讓我們在整個營建部分能夠更加的安全而且職權在相關的法律面它是完整的 而且是清楚的"},{"start":681.008,"end":694.734,"text":"我們可以在這個逐條的時候那針對這個條文他設計的原意我們可以來做好好的審議討論好好的審議討論這是當然但是您剛才說了會跟工會好好的來討論是來討論對不對好加油好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":884,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時21分）謝謝主席。楊瓊瓔發言，邀請部長備詢。"],["主席：請部長。"],["洪部長申翰：楊委員午安。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長好。我們還是討論最近新聞的焦點，就是長榮航空34歲孫姓空服員的這個事件發生之後，政府的立場什麼？可以怎麼協助？這是大家非常想聽到的，包括要求全面檢討空勤管理制度和出勤規範。這次職災的相關議題當中，工會也特別揭露，在請假的部分，尤其是對請病假、臨時特休似乎設有懲罰性的規範，而且會影響到考績及航班排班，甚至是特定時段加重處分，致使員工雖然表面上可以請假，實際上卻不敢請假。","如果真的如此的話，它就是違法。如果真的是如此，企業也沒有盡到保護勞工安全健康的責任。首先請教部長，目前你們調查的進度到底如何？我們要怎麼保障空服員的員工權利？政府又要怎麼落實，在勞檢方面如何保障勞工的權利？請說明。"],["洪部長申翰：當然，前天星期一職安署和桃園市勞檢處到長榮初步了解，因為外界希望在這件事情上面，不應該只聽公司一方的說法，所以我們接下來也會約訪當事組員，可能是當趟班機的組員，或者是相關的利害相關人，包括工會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：工會本身也希望能夠確認事實到底如何？如何保障？如何改進？所以本席要請教，因為這是一個時事議題，本席也不希望這段時間大家不知道政府在做什麼，所以希望政府以積極的態度和立場、動作，讓社會大眾了解真相。"],["洪部長申翰：我們當然要主動，而且要很積極。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，要主動、積極。所以本席要請教……"],["洪部長申翰：因為要訪談的人當中有一些利害相關人……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們預估大概需要多久的時間，可以給社會大眾、工會和空服員一個答案及方向？"],["洪部長申翰：因為訪談確實需要一點時間啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然需要時間，所以本席才要請問你，你們自己設定的時間點到底是何時？要讓大家知道政府有在做事。"],["洪部長申翰：相關的訪談，第一個要看約不約的到，因為要看約的時間、因為有些……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，做任何事情都必須有KPI，細節的部分不應該由你說明。"],["洪部長申翰：我們希望至少是兩週，好不好？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：兩週的時間？"],["洪部長申翰：對，我們來了解。相關該約訪的，我們會儘量約訪。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，你剛才說要以積極的態度面對嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們現在得到一個答案，兩週內你們會有一個方向。"],["洪部長申翰：會儘量約訪。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要有一個方向，讓社會大眾知道真正的原因，以及政府未來要怎麼調整，讓所有空服員能夠安心，是不是如此？"],["洪部長申翰：就調查和訪談的部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，兩週內嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要請教的是，這次的職安法修正案，為了加強建築工程營建過程的安全把關，所以行政院提出第十五條之一的規範，要求業主必須在一定規模的工程交付設計或施工時，由設計者或者施工者在事前實施風險評估，消除危害的根源，並採行必要的職災預防設備和措施。但是本席也接到相關反映，包括建築師公會以及很多會員提出，行政院版本會觸及相關法規，尤其是建築師執業的實務，這和他們的權責有所牴觸，所以本席今天也提出第十五條之一的修正動議，已經送到主席台。","本席希望在制定任何條文時，必須和相關公會好好討論，當你們提出草案之後，如果建築師有這樣的質疑，就是他們非常負責任，但問題是在施工期間，如果營造業者所聘請的勞工，甚至是外籍移工，這些都包含在他的監督規範之內，對他們也不甚公平。我們來看建築師的相關法規，建築師聽取業者的需求進行設計規範並提出建照申請，接下來的重點工作是什麼？因為依照法規，你必須嚴格執行他畫出來的圖說，但到底營建商在施工的時候有沒有依照政府的規範，依照他們設計出來的，將政府認可的建照圖說執行到位？所以建築師公會也提出意見。","本席所提的第十五條之一規定，事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交付規劃、設計時，應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程特性，分析潛在施工危害，這是本席提出的第十五條之一。本席要請教部長，因為建築師公會有這麼大的異議，在你回答之前，本席先說明，本席也認為營建的安全性非常重要，而且這個作品也必須如實、如期完成，這是我們最終的目標。但是在調整的過程當中，是否有和相關執行者充分討論？這是本席非常重視的。你們必須和相關單位好好討論、達成共識，未來公布執行方案的時候才能夠真正落實。你們贊不贊同這樣的流程和方式？請說明。"],["洪部長申翰：很清楚，在……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：也就是你認同這樣的邏輯？"],["洪部長申翰：我先表達一下，第一個，這次的修法，第十五條之一是非常、非常關鍵的條文，在這個條文裡面，它的責任基本上是框在業主身上，所以建築師或者設計者不用太擔心，因為這是框在業主身上。這個條文要表達的是，一個工程在前面的規劃和設計階段就要做安全風險分析，在執行或者施作的時候，按照這個安全風險分析去做相關風險管理和執行。","因為我們的確看到很多案例，如果前面的規劃和設計階段不具有安全風險設計的概念，有時候會讓後續的執行非常困難，或者是承擔很大的風險。這個想法和概念也是現在很多國家做職安管理時非常重要的部分，有點像是源頭的溯源，在規劃和設計的階段就把風險管理的部分規劃好，後續執行和施工的時候，才能夠比較大程度的避免風險，這部分很重要。它的責任是框在業主身上，所以相關的設計者、規劃者不用太擔心，我們是從這個角度設計這個條文。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝部長的說明。你請設計者不用太擔心，但他們現在擔心的，也就是剛才本席和你討論的，當你們要發布一個政策或者要做什麼調整時，必須和相關執行者、相關公會好好討論。"],["洪部長申翰：我們會向公會好好說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，這就是重點。剛才本席特別問了主席，我們今天只處理到第二條，這部分在整個條文當中是歸列在第六條，換句話說，我們還有一些時間，剛剛部長也承諾會和公會討論。"],["洪部長申翰：當然，這就是我們修法的原意。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席也希望提出的第十五條之一能夠得到行政部門同意，達成這樣的共識，讓營建能夠更加安全，而且職權在相關的法律面是完整、清楚的。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們可以在逐條審查的時候，針對這個條文設計的原意，好好審議討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然要好好審議討論，但是您剛才也說了，會和公會好好討論，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：是，沒問題，當然。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，加油。"],["主席（王委員正旭代）：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員的發言，謝謝部長的答詢。報告委員會，我們重新宣告：在牛煦庭委員詢答後休息用餐，下午一點繼續開會。","下一位請林楚茵委員。林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","請羅廷瑋委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":204,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-26-4","speakers":["劉建國","王鴻薇","羅廷瑋","翁曉玲","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","林月琴","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","楊曜","張雅琳","洪孟楷","范雲","盧縣一","陳瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148502_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場\n健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、審查(一)行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 二) 委員廖先翔等18 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草\n案」案、(三)委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員\n李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員魯明\n哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案、(六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(七)委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文\n修正草案」案、(八)委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(九)委員\n李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業\n安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、( 十一) 委員翁曉玲等23 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五\n條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法\n部分條文修正草案」案、 ( 十三) 委員劉建國等17 人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(十四)委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員沈發\n惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十六)委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安\n全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十七)委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正\n草案」案、(十八)委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(十九)委員\n王鴻薇等19 人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案、 ( 二十) 委員郭昱晴等17 人擬具\n「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案、(二十一)委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部\n分條文修正草案」案【綜合詢答】","agenda_id":"1148502_00001"}}}