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476.991, \"end\": 477.171, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"掉\", \"start\": 477.171, \"end\": 477.291, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 477.291, \"end\": 477.412, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 477.412, \"end\": 477.592, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"名\", \"start\": 477.592, \"end\": 477.612, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 478.892, \"end\": 505.261, \"text\": \"那還有其他當然不然說整個GDP的支出啦還有什麼研究論文比例等等就我們在很多的部分還有在移民法規針對外籍的優秀的員工我們的法規從30名也滑落到39名所以說在整個如果我們今天做一個想要做一個科技島不論只有台積電不論只有硬體嘛你現在做一個軟體的重點的這個培育的大國那如果我們的人才我們的移民相關的政策沒有跟上的話\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 478.892, \"end\": 479.072, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 479.072, \"end\": 479.212, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 479.212, \"end\": 479.292, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 479.292, \"end\": 479.452, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 479.452, \"end\": 479.712, 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\"end\": 551.986, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 551.986, \"end\": 552.046, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 552.046, \"end\": 552.066, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:07,966\n好謝謝主席我們請部長好來林部長請\n\n2\n00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:36,493\n你好部長好部長辛苦了這個我剛走慢一點讓你喘口氣謝謝我們還是要進入主題今天才跟部長討論我想部長剛上任的時候有接受一個專訪期待說能夠把台灣的軟體業打造出台灣版的微軟Google或Meta但是我想這個真的是\n\n3\n00:00:37,654 --> 00:00:50,317\n理想很豐滿現實很骨感我們看一下現在我們講到說Google或Microsoft當年或是現在Meta即便是Meta或是Google是近代比較成功的案子他們當初IPO的時候\n\n4\n00:00:51,380 --> 00:01:18,153\nGoogle要23億美元Meta在2012年IPO募資的時候已經到160億美元那台幣就已經這個幾千億的部分了那我想部長你提了這樣子的願景跟這個目標那計劃在哪裡還有你預計要花多少錢是政府出錢還是民間投資民間募資我們提供這樣的環境讓民間做到這個事情到底這個東西部長提出來的願景那怎麼樣才能做到\n\n5\n00:01:19,092 --> 00:01:37,228\n首先我們必須講說我們政府的角色我認為不是在於說一直發錢一直做補助而是創造一個良好的產業生態那其中最重要的關鍵就是說台灣過去那個軟體產業有很多都是在做project就是為了單一客戶譬如說是\n\n6\n00:01:37,848 --> 00:01:58,349\n那個高鐵他有一個什麼專案然後就發包然後這個軟體就寫一次就給單一家特定的客戶使用這種project的這個專案的公司很多但是做product就像說我們GoogleMicrosoftMeta他做了一個產品事實上是針對不特定客戶賣到全世界幾億人幾十億人都在使用像這種軟體公司才能賺大錢\n\n7\n00:01:59,370 --> 00:02:21,995\n所以我們現在在AI產業方面我們速發部有五大政策分別是算力資料人才行銷以及資金我們就是希望在這個建構一個產業的生態環境以後台灣能有更多做product的公司我們並不是說要打壓那個做project公司我們不是說做project不好而是說我們必須取得一個平衡我們希望台灣有更多的公司做product\n\n8\n00:02:22,915 --> 00:02:49,374\n台灣事實上也有做product的公司事實上在趨勢訓練完美移動APPEAR還有TX1等等這幾家公司都是做product而且都已經賣到世界去了他們事實上規模也都相當大了好部長其實講到要打造很好的產品打造一個很好的平台我覺得人才啦是沒錯剛剛包含其他委員提到人才部分但是我們面對現實這個人才部分這個就業金卡數位金卡的部分你看在整個\n\n9\n00:02:50,515 --> 00:03:15,467\n核卡人士裡面屬於數位領域的到目前為止從一開始到現在2025年8月累積的就業金卡的持卡人他的比例數位人才大概只佔6%就是說我們從國外能夠找的招募的人才大概就是6%那這個目前為止從2023年到現在因為數位部比較晚成立2023年到至今為止我們數位金卡裡面針對這個數位人才的就業金卡裡面招攬大概不到1000人900多人\n\n10\n00:03:16,627 --> 00:03:32,129\n那你每年要設置150人所以我想這個在產業界的需求有一個很大程度的落差另外補充個數據我們部長也參與了一個會議就是說召開我們今年7月的時候有這個經濟發展委員會的顧問會議有提出AI剛剛提到的新四大建設嘛是\n\n11\n00:03:33,089 --> 00:04:00,500\n這個每年我們希望說能夠培育100萬的人才透過學校要培育11到12萬人的人才我想先講個現實面第一個每年要11萬到12萬人我光現在人口出生每年就快沒有12萬人了大學畢業生可能一年十幾萬那我要怎麼樣你如果等於你的11、12萬等於六成、七成現在的大學畢業生他就具備這樣相關能力然後更不用講現在的出生率這麼低\n\n12\n00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:30,140\n所以你每年放1112萬人然後你目標到100萬人但是今天數位部的人才你的目標每年從海從這個國外邀請來的從這個就位的部分如果你每年目標只有150人這是你們定的目標是那這個距離所謂的新十大建設AS新十大建設不覺得這個目標非常遙遠嗎而且到底是誰在管控是數位部的主導還是國發會主導還是誰在主導因為我們問國發會國發會對這個事情沒有什麼設立什麼目標就它沒有一個數字\n\n13\n00:04:31,201 --> 00:04:50,931\n唯一有數字的當然你們比較認真的沒有數字啦但是這是每年150人可是院又說要一年要培養到10萬11萬人這個落差到底要怎麼補起來你們要去哪裡找這些人然後還有這個部分以數位人才的部分是你們主導還是剛剛提到過會不會主導還是教育部要主導把我們的科系的設立等等這到底要怎麼做到我覺得這個是\n\n14\n00:04:52,311 --> 00:05:13,941\n數字講起來都很偉大但是我們如果真的面對現實看到真的來就業的也好或是我們真的從學校培育出來也好這個落差很大部長要怎麼解決你的這個實際的落差分兩部分來回答委員的問題第一個就是人數的問題我覺得現在最我們說要多少的AI人才但是AI人才本身的定義是非常模糊的\n\n15\n00:05:14,481 --> 00:05:39,178\n之前我就是半開玩笑的講說如果說會使用ChadGPT就是AI人才的話我一年要培養100萬個也不是問題但是所以我們現在速發部第一個就是由速產署這邊訂出了AI產業人才認定指引我們把AI的人才分成三種一種是研究型的一種是產業就開發利用現成工具開發AI應用的人才然後另外一個是只是單純使用AI來\n\n16\n00:05:40,379 --> 00:06:03,798\n工具來提升我的那個效率的人才這是不同的所以我們把它分開定義出來以後我們就能比較清楚的掌握到比較清楚的設定目標那這一點我們會改進之前我們政府並沒有一個很明確的一個分類或者是一個分級這個事實上教育部之前也跟我抱怨過所以我們速發部現在已經由速產署訂出來這個\n\n17\n00:06:05,319 --> 00:06:29,227\n這個指引然後接下來我們以後會在公部門推行同樣的指引這是第一個部分第二個就是攬財的部分我認為說從國外攬財這個還不是我們主要目標第一個我們現在最重要目標是留財因為我本身是台大資訊工程系畢業的台大資訊工程系每年訓練了幾十我那時候是一年五十個現在大概一年一百多個大部分人才都被美國的AI公司\n\n18\n00:06:29,847 --> 00:06:53,975\n把它吸走了我先第一個我必須把這些人才留住事實上我前一陣子跟法國商會跟法國駐台大使在聊天他們也講說法國也面臨同樣問題法國最頂尖的AI人才也通通被美國吸走了所以我們現在就是想辦法在台灣建立一個良好的生態系讓台灣自己本身的頂尖的AI人才願意留在台灣為台灣的軟體公司工作\n\n19\n00:06:54,195 --> 00:07:21,643\n因為我想這個部長剛剛提到光是一個光台大自己每年畢業的人數就100多人那你要一年要培育到你們的目標是就是願的目標是11到12萬這個目標我覺得還是距離非常遙遠啦所以到底我想這不是只有數位部的責任啦可能教育部或其他部會都要訂出相關的這個的範圍不是只有你在努力不然你要一年12萬人就我講的12萬人幾乎快要等於現在大學畢業生的人數了我不可能全部的\n\n20\n00:07:22,763 --> 00:07:40,644\n全台灣的大學生全部都念相關的產業所以這個目標第一個如果你正在訂12萬那我覺得計畫內容要明確一點不要說只是喊數字那如果我們做不到我就覺得不要喊這個數字要務實一點變成這個現實這是我覺得是重要為什麼要講這個看那個排名\n\n21\n00:07:41,525 --> 00:07:57,612\n我想部長你剛上任這也不能怪你但是我們看這個世界數位競爭力的調查評比的排名到2024年我們整體來講是下滑的包含說這個高階人才我們從44名降到49名我們數位科技人才的充足狀況從32名滑落10名掉到第42名\n\n22\n00:07:58,892 --> 00:08:25,261\n那還有其他當然不然說整個GDP的支出啦還有什麼研究論文比例等等就我們在很多的部分還有在移民法規針對外籍的優秀的員工我們的法規從30名也滑落到39名所以說在整個如果我們今天做一個想要做一個科技島不論只有台積電不論只有硬體嘛你現在做一個軟體的重點的這個培育的大國那如果我們的人才我們的移民相關的政策沒有跟上的話\n\n23\n00:08:26,261 --> 00:08:51,293\n當然你就做不到我講了嘛你一年大學能夠培養多少本土大學生你一定是從國外攬財一定有占很大一部分因為剛剛部長你提到說不會以國外為但是我的建議啦其實這個人才庫是世界的競爭啦不是只有台灣之際而已所以我們要想辦法就是說你今天大家為什麼願意去美國或去其他國家因為他可能相對在專業人才上移民政策或是簽證比較好拿\n\n24\n00:08:51,773 --> 00:09:12,066\n那我們是不是也有相關的政策出來這個可能不是只有你的問題這是你要拜託你們去跟內政部也好跟教育部也好跟各部會也好我們怎麼樣提升這個排名的數字因為這個排名是很客觀的數據哪些地方滑落了那我覺得這就是我們數位部要去做的事情好不好部長是好謝謝好那差不多謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6519\t7966\t好 謝謝主席 我們請部長好 來 林部長請\n15800\t36493\t你好部長好部長辛苦了這個我剛走慢一點讓你喘口氣謝謝我們還是要進入主題今天才跟部長討論我想部長剛上任的時候有接受一個專訪期待說能夠把台灣的軟體業打造出台灣版的微軟Google或Meta但是我想這個真的是\n37654\t50317\t理想很豐滿 現實很骨感我們看一下現在我們講到說Google或Microsoft當年或是現在Meta即便是Meta或是Google是近代比較成功的案子他們當初IPO的時候\n51380\t78153\tGoogle要23億美元Meta在2012年IPO募資的時候已經到160億美元那台幣就已經這個幾千億的部分了那我想部長你提了這樣子的願景跟這個目標那計劃在哪裡還有你預計要花多少錢是政府出錢還是民間投資民間募資我們提供這樣的環境讓民間做到這個事情到底這個東西部長提出來的願景那怎麼樣才能做到\n79092\t97228\t首先我們必須講說我們政府的角色我認為不是在於說一直發錢一直做補助而是創造一個良好的產業生態那其中最重要的關鍵就是說台灣過去那個軟體產業有很多都是在做project就是為了單一客戶譬如說是\n97848\t118349\t那個高鐵他有一個什麼專案然後就發包然後這個軟體就寫一次就給單一家特定的客戶使用這種project的這個專案的公司很多但是做product就像說我們GoogleMicrosoftMeta他做了一個產品事實上是針對不特定客戶賣到全世界幾億人幾十億人都在使用像這種軟體公司才能賺大錢\n119370\t141995\t所以我們現在在AI產業方面我們速發部有五大政策分別是算力資料人才行銷以及資金我們就是希望在這個建構一個產業的生態環境以後台灣能有更多做product的公司我們並不是說要打壓那個做project公司我們不是說做project不好而是說我們必須取得一個平衡我們希望台灣有更多的公司做product\n142915\t169374\t台灣事實上也有做product的公司事實上在趨勢訓練完美移動APPEAR還有TX1等等這幾家公司都是做product而且都已經賣到世界去了他們事實上規模也都相當大了好 部長其實講到要打造很好的產品打造一個很好的平台我覺得人才啦是 沒錯剛剛包含其他委員提到人才部分但是我們面對現實這個人才部分這個就業金卡 數位金卡的部分你看在整個\n170515\t195467\t核卡人士裡面屬於數位領域的到目前為止從一開始到現在2025年8月累積的就業金卡的持卡人他的比例數位人才大概只佔6%就是說我們從國外能夠找的招募的人才大概就是6%那這個目前為止從2023年到現在因為數位部比較晚成立2023年到至今為止我們數位金卡裡面針對這個數位人才的就業金卡裡面招攬大概不到1000人900多人\n196627\t212129\t那你每年要設置150人所以我想這個在產業界的需求有一個很大程度的落差另外補充個數據我們部長也參與了一個會議就是說召開我們今年7月的時候有這個經濟發展委員會的顧問會議有提出AI剛剛提到的新四大建設嘛是\n213089\t240500\t這個每年我們希望說能夠培育100萬的人才透過學校要培育11到12萬人的人才我想先講個現實面第一個每年要11萬到12萬人我光現在人口出生每年就快沒有12萬人了大學畢業生可能一年十幾萬那我要怎麼樣你如果等於你的11、12萬等於六成、七成現在的大學畢業生他就具備這樣相關能力然後更不用講現在的出生率這麼低\n241460\t270140\t所以你每年放11 12萬人然後你目標到100萬人但是今天數位部的人才你的目標每年從海從這個國外邀請來的從這個就位的部分如果你每年目標只有150人這是你們定的目標是那這個距離所謂的新十大建設AS新十大建設不覺得這個目標非常遙遠嗎而且到底是誰在管控是數位部的主導還是國發會主導還是誰在主導因為我們問國發會國發會對這個事情沒有什麼設立什麼目標就它沒有一個數字\n271201\t290931\t唯一有數字的當然你們比較認真的沒有數字啦但是這是每年150人可是院又說要一年要培養到10萬11萬人這個落差到底要怎麼補起來你們要去哪裡找這些人然後還有這個部分以數位人才的部分是你們主導還是剛剛提到過會不會主導還是教育部要主導把我們的科系的設立等等這到底要怎麼做到我覺得這個是\n292311\t313941\t數字講起來都很偉大但是我們如果真的面對現實看到真的來就業的也好或是我們真的從學校培育出來也好這個落差很大部長要怎麼解決你的這個實際的落差分兩部分來回答委員的問題第一個就是人數的問題我覺得現在最我們說要多少的AI人才但是AI人才本身的定義是非常模糊的\n314481\t339178\t之前我就是半開玩笑的講說如果說會使用Chad GPT就是AI人才的話我一年要培養100萬個也不是問題但是所以我們現在速發部第一個就是由速產署這邊訂出了AI產業人才認定指引我們把AI的人才分成三種一種是研究型的一種是產業就開發利用現成工具開發AI應用的人才然後另外一個是只是單純使用AI來\n340379\t363798\t工具來提升我的那個效率的人才這是不同的所以我們把它分開定義出來以後我們就能比較清楚的掌握到比較清楚的設定目標那這一點我們會改進之前我們政府並沒有一個很明確的一個分類或者是一個分級這個事實上教育部之前也跟我抱怨過所以我們速發部現在已經由速產署訂出來這個\n365319\t389227\t這個指引然後接下來我們以後會在公部門推行同樣的指引這是第一個部分第二個就是攬財的部分我認為說從國外攬財這個還不是我們主要目標第一個我們現在最重要目標是留財因為我本身是台大資訊工程系畢業的台大資訊工程系每年訓練了幾十我那時候是一年五十個現在大概一年一百多個大部分人才都被美國的AI公司\n389847\t413975\t把它吸走了我先第一個我必須把這些人才留住事實上我前一陣子跟法國商會跟法國駐台大使在聊天他們也講說法國也面臨同樣問題法國最頂尖的AI人才也通通被美國吸走了所以我們現在就是想辦法在台灣建立一個良好的生態系讓台灣自己本身的頂尖的AI人才願意留在台灣為台灣的軟體公司工作\n414195\t441643\t因為我想這個部長剛剛提到光是一個光台大自己每年畢業的人數就100多人那你要一年要培育到你們的目標是就是願的目標是11到12萬這個目標我覺得還是距離非常遙遠啦所以到底我想這不是只有數位部的責任啦可能教育部或其他部會都要訂出相關的這個的範圍不是只有你在努力不然你要一年12萬人就我講的12萬人幾乎快要等於現在大學畢業生的人數了我不可能全部的\n442763\t460644\t全台灣的大學生全部都念相關的產業所以這個目標第一個如果你正在訂12萬那我覺得計畫內容要明確一點不要說只是喊數字那如果我們做不到我就覺得不要喊這個數字要務實一點變成這個現實這是我覺得是重要為什麼要講這個看那個排名\n461525\t477612\t我想部長你剛上任這也不能怪你但是我們看這個世界數位競爭力的調查評比的排名到2024年我們整體來講是下滑的包含說這個高階人才我們從44名降到49名我們數位科技人才的充足狀況從32名滑落10名掉到第42名\n478892\t505261\t那還有其他當然不然說整個GDP的支出啦還有什麼研究論文比例等等就我們在很多的部分還有在移民法規針對外籍的優秀的員工我們的法規從30名也滑落到39名所以說在整個如果我們今天做一個想要做一個科技島不論只有台積電不論只有硬體嘛你現在做一個軟體的重點的這個培育的大國那如果我們的人才我們的移民相關的政策沒有跟上的話\n506261\t531293\t當然你就做不到 我講了嘛你一年大學能夠培養多少本土大學生你一定是從國外攬財一定有占很大一部分因為剛剛部長你提到說不會以國外為但是我的建議啦其實這個人才庫是世界的競爭啦不是只有台灣之際而已所以我們要想辦法就是說你今天大家為什麼願意去美國或去其他國家因為他可能相對在專業人才上移民政策或是簽證比較好拿\n531773\t552066\t那我們是不是也有相關的政策出來這個可能不是只有你的問題這是你要拜託你們去跟內政部也好跟教育部也好跟各部會也好我們怎麼樣提升這個排名的數字因為這個排名是很客觀的數據哪些地方滑落了那我覺得這就是我們數位部要去做的事情好不好 部長是 好 謝謝好 那差不多 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請部長好 來 林部長請\n你好部長好部長辛苦了這個我剛走慢一點讓你喘口氣謝謝我們還是要進入主題今天才跟部長討論我想部長剛上任的時候有接受一個專訪期待說能夠把台灣的軟體業打造出台灣版的微軟Google或Meta但是我想這個真的是\n理想很豐滿 現實很骨感我們看一下現在我們講到說Google或Microsoft當年或是現在Meta即便是Meta或是Google是近代比較成功的案子他們當初IPO的時候\nGoogle要23億美元Meta在2012年IPO募資的時候已經到160億美元那台幣就已經這個幾千億的部分了那我想部長你提了這樣子的願景跟這個目標那計劃在哪裡還有你預計要花多少錢是政府出錢還是民間投資民間募資我們提供這樣的環境讓民間做到這個事情到底這個東西部長提出來的願景那怎麼樣才能做到\n首先我們必須講說我們政府的角色我認為不是在於說一直發錢一直做補助而是創造一個良好的產業生態那其中最重要的關鍵就是說台灣過去那個軟體產業有很多都是在做project就是為了單一客戶譬如說是\n那個高鐵他有一個什麼專案然後就發包然後這個軟體就寫一次就給單一家特定的客戶使用這種project的這個專案的公司很多但是做product就像說我們GoogleMicrosoftMeta他做了一個產品事實上是針對不特定客戶賣到全世界幾億人幾十億人都在使用像這種軟體公司才能賺大錢\n所以我們現在在AI產業方面我們速發部有五大政策分別是算力資料人才行銷以及資金我們就是希望在這個建構一個產業的生態環境以後台灣能有更多做product的公司我們並不是說要打壓那個做project公司我們不是說做project不好而是說我們必須取得一個平衡我們希望台灣有更多的公司做product\n台灣事實上也有做product的公司事實上在趨勢訓練完美移動APPEAR還有TX1等等這幾家公司都是做product而且都已經賣到世界去了他們事實上規模也都相當大了好 部長其實講到要打造很好的產品打造一個很好的平台我覺得人才啦是 沒錯剛剛包含其他委員提到人才部分但是我們面對現實這個人才部分這個就業金卡 數位金卡的部分你看在整個\n核卡人士裡面屬於數位領域的到目前為止從一開始到現在2025年8月累積的就業金卡的持卡人他的比例數位人才大概只佔6%就是說我們從國外能夠找的招募的人才大概就是6%那這個目前為止從2023年到現在因為數位部比較晚成立2023年到至今為止我們數位金卡裡面針對這個數位人才的就業金卡裡面招攬大概不到1000人900多人\n那你每年要設置150人所以我想這個在產業界的需求有一個很大程度的落差另外補充個數據我們部長也參與了一個會議就是說召開我們今年7月的時候有這個經濟發展委員會的顧問會議有提出AI剛剛提到的新四大建設嘛是\n這個每年我們希望說能夠培育100萬的人才透過學校要培育11到12萬人的人才我想先講個現實面第一個每年要11萬到12萬人我光現在人口出生每年就快沒有12萬人了大學畢業生可能一年十幾萬那我要怎麼樣你如果等於你的11、12萬等於六成、七成現在的大學畢業生他就具備這樣相關能力然後更不用講現在的出生率這麼低\n所以你每年放11 12萬人然後你目標到100萬人但是今天數位部的人才你的目標每年從海從這個國外邀請來的從這個就位的部分如果你每年目標只有150人這是你們定的目標是那這個距離所謂的新十大建設AS新十大建設不覺得這個目標非常遙遠嗎而且到底是誰在管控是數位部的主導還是國發會主導還是誰在主導因為我們問國發會國發會對這個事情沒有什麼設立什麼目標就它沒有一個數字\n唯一有數字的當然你們比較認真的沒有數字啦但是這是每年150人可是院又說要一年要培養到10萬11萬人這個落差到底要怎麼補起來你們要去哪裡找這些人然後還有這個部分以數位人才的部分是你們主導還是剛剛提到過會不會主導還是教育部要主導把我們的科系的設立等等這到底要怎麼做到我覺得這個是\n數字講起來都很偉大但是我們如果真的面對現實看到真的來就業的也好或是我們真的從學校培育出來也好這個落差很大部長要怎麼解決你的這個實際的落差分兩部分來回答委員的問題第一個就是人數的問題我覺得現在最我們說要多少的AI人才但是AI人才本身的定義是非常模糊的\n之前我就是半開玩笑的講說如果說會使用Chad GPT就是AI人才的話我一年要培養100萬個也不是問題但是所以我們現在速發部第一個就是由速產署這邊訂出了AI產業人才認定指引我們把AI的人才分成三種一種是研究型的一種是產業就開發利用現成工具開發AI應用的人才然後另外一個是只是單純使用AI來\n工具來提升我的那個效率的人才這是不同的所以我們把它分開定義出來以後我們就能比較清楚的掌握到比較清楚的設定目標那這一點我們會改進之前我們政府並沒有一個很明確的一個分類或者是一個分級這個事實上教育部之前也跟我抱怨過所以我們速發部現在已經由速產署訂出來這個\n這個指引然後接下來我們以後會在公部門推行同樣的指引這是第一個部分第二個就是攬財的部分我認為說從國外攬財這個還不是我們主要目標第一個我們現在最重要目標是留財因為我本身是台大資訊工程系畢業的台大資訊工程系每年訓練了幾十我那時候是一年五十個現在大概一年一百多個大部分人才都被美國的AI公司\n把它吸走了我先第一個我必須把這些人才留住事實上我前一陣子跟法國商會跟法國駐台大使在聊天他們也講說法國也面臨同樣問題法國最頂尖的AI人才也通通被美國吸走了所以我們現在就是想辦法在台灣建立一個良好的生態系讓台灣自己本身的頂尖的AI人才願意留在台灣為台灣的軟體公司工作\n因為我想這個部長剛剛提到光是一個光台大自己每年畢業的人數就100多人那你要一年要培育到你們的目標是就是願的目標是11到12萬這個目標我覺得還是距離非常遙遠啦所以到底我想這不是只有數位部的責任啦可能教育部或其他部會都要訂出相關的這個的範圍不是只有你在努力不然你要一年12萬人就我講的12萬人幾乎快要等於現在大學畢業生的人數了我不可能全部的\n全台灣的大學生全部都念相關的產業所以這個目標第一個如果你正在訂12萬那我覺得計畫內容要明確一點不要說只是喊數字那如果我們做不到我就覺得不要喊這個數字要務實一點變成這個現實這是我覺得是重要為什麼要講這個看那個排名\n我想部長你剛上任這也不能怪你但是我們看這個世界數位競爭力的調查評比的排名到2024年我們整體來講是下滑的包含說這個高階人才我們從44名降到49名我們數位科技人才的充足狀況從32名滑落10名掉到第42名\n那還有其他當然不然說整個GDP的支出啦還有什麼研究論文比例等等就我們在很多的部分還有在移民法規針對外籍的優秀的員工我們的法規從30名也滑落到39名所以說在整個如果我們今天做一個想要做一個科技島不論只有台積電不論只有硬體嘛你現在做一個軟體的重點的這個培育的大國那如果我們的人才我們的移民相關的政策沒有跟上的話\n當然你就做不到 我講了嘛你一年大學能夠培養多少本土大學生你一定是從國外攬財一定有占很大一部分因為剛剛部長你提到說不會以國外為但是我的建議啦其實這個人才庫是世界的競爭啦不是只有台灣之際而已所以我們要想辦法就是說你今天大家為什麼願意去美國或去其他國家因為他可能相對在專業人才上移民政策或是簽證比較好拿\n那我們是不是也有相關的政策出來這個可能不是只有你的問題這是你要拜託你們去跟內政部也好跟教育部也好跟各部會也好我們怎麼樣提升這個排名的數字因為這個排名是很客觀的數據哪些地方滑落了那我覺得這就是我們數位部要去做的事情好不好 部長是 好 謝謝好 那差不多 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.519 --> 00:07.966\n好謝謝主席我們請部長好來林部長請\n\n00:15.800 --> 00:36.493\n你好部長好部長辛苦了這個我剛走慢一點讓你喘口氣謝謝我們還是要進入主題今天才跟部長討論我想部長剛上任的時候有接受一個專訪期待說能夠把台灣的軟體業打造出台灣版的微軟Google或Meta但是我想這個真的是\n\n00:37.654 --> 00:50.317\n理想很豐滿現實很骨感我們看一下現在我們講到說Google或Microsoft當年或是現在Meta即便是Meta或是Google是近代比較成功的案子他們當初IPO的時候\n\n00:51.380 --> 01:18.153\nGoogle要23億美元Meta在2012年IPO募資的時候已經到160億美元那台幣就已經這個幾千億的部分了那我想部長你提了這樣子的願景跟這個目標那計劃在哪裡還有你預計要花多少錢是政府出錢還是民間投資民間募資我們提供這樣的環境讓民間做到這個事情到底這個東西部長提出來的願景那怎麼樣才能做到\n\n01:19.092 --> 01:37.228\n首先我們必須講說我們政府的角色我認為不是在於說一直發錢一直做補助而是創造一個良好的產業生態那其中最重要的關鍵就是說台灣過去那個軟體產業有很多都是在做project就是為了單一客戶譬如說是\n\n01:37.848 --> 01:58.349\n那個高鐵他有一個什麼專案然後就發包然後這個軟體就寫一次就給單一家特定的客戶使用這種project的這個專案的公司很多但是做product就像說我們GoogleMicrosoftMeta他做了一個產品事實上是針對不特定客戶賣到全世界幾億人幾十億人都在使用像這種軟體公司才能賺大錢\n\n01:59.370 --> 02:21.995\n所以我們現在在AI產業方面我們速發部有五大政策分別是算力資料人才行銷以及資金我們就是希望在這個建構一個產業的生態環境以後台灣能有更多做product的公司我們並不是說要打壓那個做project公司我們不是說做project不好而是說我們必須取得一個平衡我們希望台灣有更多的公司做product\n\n02:22.915 --> 02:49.374\n台灣事實上也有做product的公司事實上在趨勢訓練完美移動APPEAR還有TX1等等這幾家公司都是做product而且都已經賣到世界去了他們事實上規模也都相當大了好部長其實講到要打造很好的產品打造一個很好的平台我覺得人才啦是沒錯剛剛包含其他委員提到人才部分但是我們面對現實這個人才部分這個就業金卡數位金卡的部分你看在整個\n\n02:50.515 --> 03:15.467\n核卡人士裡面屬於數位領域的到目前為止從一開始到現在2025年8月累積的就業金卡的持卡人他的比例數位人才大概只佔6%就是說我們從國外能夠找的招募的人才大概就是6%那這個目前為止從2023年到現在因為數位部比較晚成立2023年到至今為止我們數位金卡裡面針對這個數位人才的就業金卡裡面招攬大概不到1000人900多人\n\n03:16.627 --> 03:32.129\n那你每年要設置150人所以我想這個在產業界的需求有一個很大程度的落差另外補充個數據我們部長也參與了一個會議就是說召開我們今年7月的時候有這個經濟發展委員會的顧問會議有提出AI剛剛提到的新四大建設嘛是\n\n03:33.089 --> 04:00.500\n這個每年我們希望說能夠培育100萬的人才透過學校要培育11到12萬人的人才我想先講個現實面第一個每年要11萬到12萬人我光現在人口出生每年就快沒有12萬人了大學畢業生可能一年十幾萬那我要怎麼樣你如果等於你的11、12萬等於六成、七成現在的大學畢業生他就具備這樣相關能力然後更不用講現在的出生率這麼低\n\n04:01.460 --> 04:30.140\n所以你每年放1112萬人然後你目標到100萬人但是今天數位部的人才你的目標每年從海從這個國外邀請來的從這個就位的部分如果你每年目標只有150人這是你們定的目標是那這個距離所謂的新十大建設AS新十大建設不覺得這個目標非常遙遠嗎而且到底是誰在管控是數位部的主導還是國發會主導還是誰在主導因為我們問國發會國發會對這個事情沒有什麼設立什麼目標就它沒有一個數字\n\n04:31.201 --> 04:50.931\n唯一有數字的當然你們比較認真的沒有數字啦但是這是每年150人可是院又說要一年要培養到10萬11萬人這個落差到底要怎麼補起來你們要去哪裡找這些人然後還有這個部分以數位人才的部分是你們主導還是剛剛提到過會不會主導還是教育部要主導把我們的科系的設立等等這到底要怎麼做到我覺得這個是\n\n04:52.311 --> 05:13.941\n數字講起來都很偉大但是我們如果真的面對現實看到真的來就業的也好或是我們真的從學校培育出來也好這個落差很大部長要怎麼解決你的這個實際的落差分兩部分來回答委員的問題第一個就是人數的問題我覺得現在最我們說要多少的AI人才但是AI人才本身的定義是非常模糊的\n\n05:14.481 --> 05:39.178\n之前我就是半開玩笑的講說如果說會使用ChadGPT就是AI人才的話我一年要培養100萬個也不是問題但是所以我們現在速發部第一個就是由速產署這邊訂出了AI產業人才認定指引我們把AI的人才分成三種一種是研究型的一種是產業就開發利用現成工具開發AI應用的人才然後另外一個是只是單純使用AI來\n\n05:40.379 --> 06:03.798\n工具來提升我的那個效率的人才這是不同的所以我們把它分開定義出來以後我們就能比較清楚的掌握到比較清楚的設定目標那這一點我們會改進之前我們政府並沒有一個很明確的一個分類或者是一個分級這個事實上教育部之前也跟我抱怨過所以我們速發部現在已經由速產署訂出來這個\n\n06:05.319 --> 06:29.227\n這個指引然後接下來我們以後會在公部門推行同樣的指引這是第一個部分第二個就是攬財的部分我認為說從國外攬財這個還不是我們主要目標第一個我們現在最重要目標是留財因為我本身是台大資訊工程系畢業的台大資訊工程系每年訓練了幾十我那時候是一年五十個現在大概一年一百多個大部分人才都被美國的AI公司\n\n06:29.847 --> 06:53.975\n把它吸走了我先第一個我必須把這些人才留住事實上我前一陣子跟法國商會跟法國駐台大使在聊天他們也講說法國也面臨同樣問題法國最頂尖的AI人才也通通被美國吸走了所以我們現在就是想辦法在台灣建立一個良好的生態系讓台灣自己本身的頂尖的AI人才願意留在台灣為台灣的軟體公司工作\n\n06:54.195 --> 07:21.643\n因為我想這個部長剛剛提到光是一個光台大自己每年畢業的人數就100多人那你要一年要培育到你們的目標是就是願的目標是11到12萬這個目標我覺得還是距離非常遙遠啦所以到底我想這不是只有數位部的責任啦可能教育部或其他部會都要訂出相關的這個的範圍不是只有你在努力不然你要一年12萬人就我講的12萬人幾乎快要等於現在大學畢業生的人數了我不可能全部的\n\n07:22.763 --> 07:40.644\n全台灣的大學生全部都念相關的產業所以這個目標第一個如果你正在訂12萬那我覺得計畫內容要明確一點不要說只是喊數字那如果我們做不到我就覺得不要喊這個數字要務實一點變成這個現實這是我覺得是重要為什麼要講這個看那個排名\n\n07:41.525 --> 07:57.612\n我想部長你剛上任這也不能怪你但是我們看這個世界數位競爭力的調查評比的排名到2024年我們整體來講是下滑的包含說這個高階人才我們從44名降到49名我們數位科技人才的充足狀況從32名滑落10名掉到第42名\n\n07:58.892 --> 08:25.261\n那還有其他當然不然說整個GDP的支出啦還有什麼研究論文比例等等就我們在很多的部分還有在移民法規針對外籍的優秀的員工我們的法規從30名也滑落到39名所以說在整個如果我們今天做一個想要做一個科技島不論只有台積電不論只有硬體嘛你現在做一個軟體的重點的這個培育的大國那如果我們的人才我們的移民相關的政策沒有跟上的話\n\n08:26.261 --> 08:51.293\n當然你就做不到我講了嘛你一年大學能夠培養多少本土大學生你一定是從國外攬財一定有占很大一部分因為剛剛部長你提到說不會以國外為但是我的建議啦其實這個人才庫是世界的競爭啦不是只有台灣之際而已所以我們要想辦法就是說你今天大家為什麼願意去美國或去其他國家因為他可能相對在專業人才上移民政策或是簽證比較好拿\n\n08:51.773 --> 09:12.066\n那我們是不是也有相關的政策出來這個可能不是只有你的問題這是你要拜託你們去跟內政部也好跟教育部也好跟各部會也好我們怎麼樣提升這個排名的數字因為這個排名是很客觀的數據哪些地方滑落了那我覺得這就是我們數位部要去做的事情好不好部長是好謝謝好那差不多謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.519,"end":7.966,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請部長好 來 林部長請"},{"start":15.8,"end":36.493,"text":"你好部長好部長辛苦了這個我剛走慢一點讓你喘口氣謝謝我們還是要進入主題今天才跟部長討論我想部長剛上任的時候有接受一個專訪期待說能夠把台灣的軟體業打造出台灣版的微軟Google或Meta但是我想這個真的是"},{"start":37.654,"end":50.317,"text":"理想很豐滿 現實很骨感我們看一下現在我們講到說Google或Microsoft當年或是現在Meta即便是Meta或是Google是近代比較成功的案子他們當初IPO的時候"},{"start":51.38,"end":78.153,"text":"Google要23億美元Meta在2012年IPO募資的時候已經到160億美元那台幣就已經這個幾千億的部分了那我想部長你提了這樣子的願景跟這個目標那計劃在哪裡還有你預計要花多少錢是政府出錢還是民間投資民間募資我們提供這樣的環境讓民間做到這個事情到底這個東西部長提出來的願景那怎麼樣才能做到"},{"start":79.092,"end":97.228,"text":"首先我們必須講說我們政府的角色我認為不是在於說一直發錢一直做補助而是創造一個良好的產業生態那其中最重要的關鍵就是說台灣過去那個軟體產業有很多都是在做project就是為了單一客戶譬如說是"},{"start":97.848,"end":118.349,"text":"那個高鐵他有一個什麼專案然後就發包然後這個軟體就寫一次就給單一家特定的客戶使用這種project的這個專案的公司很多但是做product就像說我們GoogleMicrosoftMeta他做了一個產品事實上是針對不特定客戶賣到全世界幾億人幾十億人都在使用像這種軟體公司才能賺大錢"},{"start":119.37,"end":141.995,"text":"所以我們現在在AI產業方面我們速發部有五大政策分別是算力資料人才行銷以及資金我們就是希望在這個建構一個產業的生態環境以後台灣能有更多做product的公司我們並不是說要打壓那個做project公司我們不是說做project不好而是說我們必須取得一個平衡我們希望台灣有更多的公司做product"},{"start":142.915,"end":169.374,"text":"台灣事實上也有做product的公司事實上在趨勢訓練完美移動APPEAR還有TX1等等這幾家公司都是做product而且都已經賣到世界去了他們事實上規模也都相當大了好 部長其實講到要打造很好的產品打造一個很好的平台我覺得人才啦是 沒錯剛剛包含其他委員提到人才部分但是我們面對現實這個人才部分這個就業金卡 數位金卡的部分你看在整個"},{"start":170.515,"end":195.467,"text":"核卡人士裡面屬於數位領域的到目前為止從一開始到現在2025年8月累積的就業金卡的持卡人他的比例數位人才大概只佔6%就是說我們從國外能夠找的招募的人才大概就是6%那這個目前為止從2023年到現在因為數位部比較晚成立2023年到至今為止我們數位金卡裡面針對這個數位人才的就業金卡裡面招攬大概不到1000人900多人"},{"start":196.627,"end":212.129,"text":"那你每年要設置150人所以我想這個在產業界的需求有一個很大程度的落差另外補充個數據我們部長也參與了一個會議就是說召開我們今年7月的時候有這個經濟發展委員會的顧問會議有提出AI剛剛提到的新四大建設嘛是"},{"start":213.089,"end":240.5,"text":"這個每年我們希望說能夠培育100萬的人才透過學校要培育11到12萬人的人才我想先講個現實面第一個每年要11萬到12萬人我光現在人口出生每年就快沒有12萬人了大學畢業生可能一年十幾萬那我要怎麼樣你如果等於你的11、12萬等於六成、七成現在的大學畢業生他就具備這樣相關能力然後更不用講現在的出生率這麼低"},{"start":241.46,"end":270.14,"text":"所以你每年放11 12萬人然後你目標到100萬人但是今天數位部的人才你的目標每年從海從這個國外邀請來的從這個就位的部分如果你每年目標只有150人這是你們定的目標是那這個距離所謂的新十大建設AS新十大建設不覺得這個目標非常遙遠嗎而且到底是誰在管控是數位部的主導還是國發會主導還是誰在主導因為我們問國發會國發會對這個事情沒有什麼設立什麼目標就它沒有一個數字"},{"start":271.201,"end":290.931,"text":"唯一有數字的當然你們比較認真的沒有數字啦但是這是每年150人可是院又說要一年要培養到10萬11萬人這個落差到底要怎麼補起來你們要去哪裡找這些人然後還有這個部分以數位人才的部分是你們主導還是剛剛提到過會不會主導還是教育部要主導把我們的科系的設立等等這到底要怎麼做到我覺得這個是"},{"start":292.311,"end":313.941,"text":"數字講起來都很偉大但是我們如果真的面對現實看到真的來就業的也好或是我們真的從學校培育出來也好這個落差很大部長要怎麼解決你的這個實際的落差分兩部分來回答委員的問題第一個就是人數的問題我覺得現在最我們說要多少的AI人才但是AI人才本身的定義是非常模糊的"},{"start":314.481,"end":339.178,"text":"之前我就是半開玩笑的講說如果說會使用Chad GPT就是AI人才的話我一年要培養100萬個也不是問題但是所以我們現在速發部第一個就是由速產署這邊訂出了AI產業人才認定指引我們把AI的人才分成三種一種是研究型的一種是產業就開發利用現成工具開發AI應用的人才然後另外一個是只是單純使用AI來"},{"start":340.379,"end":363.798,"text":"工具來提升我的那個效率的人才這是不同的所以我們把它分開定義出來以後我們就能比較清楚的掌握到比較清楚的設定目標那這一點我們會改進之前我們政府並沒有一個很明確的一個分類或者是一個分級這個事實上教育部之前也跟我抱怨過所以我們速發部現在已經由速產署訂出來這個"},{"start":365.319,"end":389.227,"text":"這個指引然後接下來我們以後會在公部門推行同樣的指引這是第一個部分第二個就是攬財的部分我認為說從國外攬財這個還不是我們主要目標第一個我們現在最重要目標是留財因為我本身是台大資訊工程系畢業的台大資訊工程系每年訓練了幾十我那時候是一年五十個現在大概一年一百多個大部分人才都被美國的AI公司"},{"start":389.847,"end":413.975,"text":"把它吸走了我先第一個我必須把這些人才留住事實上我前一陣子跟法國商會跟法國駐台大使在聊天他們也講說法國也面臨同樣問題法國最頂尖的AI人才也通通被美國吸走了所以我們現在就是想辦法在台灣建立一個良好的生態系讓台灣自己本身的頂尖的AI人才願意留在台灣為台灣的軟體公司工作"},{"start":414.195,"end":441.643,"text":"因為我想這個部長剛剛提到光是一個光台大自己每年畢業的人數就100多人那你要一年要培育到你們的目標是就是願的目標是11到12萬這個目標我覺得還是距離非常遙遠啦所以到底我想這不是只有數位部的責任啦可能教育部或其他部會都要訂出相關的這個的範圍不是只有你在努力不然你要一年12萬人就我講的12萬人幾乎快要等於現在大學畢業生的人數了我不可能全部的"},{"start":442.763,"end":460.644,"text":"全台灣的大學生全部都念相關的產業所以這個目標第一個如果你正在訂12萬那我覺得計畫內容要明確一點不要說只是喊數字那如果我們做不到我就覺得不要喊這個數字要務實一點變成這個現實這是我覺得是重要為什麼要講這個看那個排名"},{"start":461.525,"end":477.612,"text":"我想部長你剛上任這也不能怪你但是我們看這個世界數位競爭力的調查評比的排名到2024年我們整體來講是下滑的包含說這個高階人才我們從44名降到49名我們數位科技人才的充足狀況從32名滑落10名掉到第42名"},{"start":478.892,"end":505.261,"text":"那還有其他當然不然說整個GDP的支出啦還有什麼研究論文比例等等就我們在很多的部分還有在移民法規針對外籍的優秀的員工我們的法規從30名也滑落到39名所以說在整個如果我們今天做一個想要做一個科技島不論只有台積電不論只有硬體嘛你現在做一個軟體的重點的這個培育的大國那如果我們的人才我們的移民相關的政策沒有跟上的話"},{"start":506.261,"end":531.293,"text":"當然你就做不到 我講了嘛你一年大學能夠培養多少本土大學生你一定是從國外攬財一定有占很大一部分因為剛剛部長你提到說不會以國外為但是我的建議啦其實這個人才庫是世界的競爭啦不是只有台灣之際而已所以我們要想辦法就是說你今天大家為什麼願意去美國或去其他國家因為他可能相對在專業人才上移民政策或是簽證比較好拿"},{"start":531.773,"end":552.066,"text":"那我們是不是也有相關的政策出來這個可能不是只有你的問題這是你要拜託你們去跟內政部也好跟教育部也好跟各部會也好我們怎麼樣提升這個排名的數字因為這個排名是很客觀的數據哪些地方滑落了那我覺得這就是我們數位部要去做的事情好不好 部長是 好 謝謝好 那差不多 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1002,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（12時27分）好，謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：好，來，林部長請。"],["林部長宜敬：黃委員，你好。"],["黃委員健豪：部長好。部長辛苦了，我剛剛走慢一點，讓你喘口氣。"],["林部長宜敬：謝謝、謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：我們還是要進入主題。今天來跟部長討論，部長剛上任的時候有接受一個專訪，說期待能夠把臺灣的軟體業打造出臺灣版的微軟、Google或Meta，但是我想，這個真的是理想很豐滿，現實很骨感。我們看一下，現在我們講到Google、Microsoft或是Meta，即便Meta或Google是近代比較成功的案子，他們當初IPO的時候，Google也募到23億美元，Meta在2012年IPO募資的時候已經募到160億美元，臺幣大概值幾千億，部長，你提了這樣子的願景跟目標，那計畫在哪裡？還有你預計要花多少錢？是政府出錢還是民間投資、民間募資？我們提供這樣的環境，讓民間做到這些事情，到底部長提出來的願景，要怎麼樣才能做到？"],["林部長宜敬：OK。首先我們必須講說，我們政府的角色，我認為不是在於一直發錢、一直補助，而是創造一個良好的產業生態，其中最重要的關鍵就是，臺灣過去的軟體產業有很多都是在做project，就是為了單一客戶做project，譬如說，高鐵有一個專案，然後就發包，這家軟體業者就寫一個軟體給單一一家特定的客戶使用，這種做project專案的公司很多，但是做product的不多，就像Google、Microsoft、Meta，他們做了一個產品，事實上是針對不特定客戶，賣到全世界，幾十億人都在使用，像這種軟體公司才能賺大錢，所以現在在AI產業方面，我們數發部有五大政策，分別是算力、資料、人才、行銷以及資金等等，我們就是希望建構一個產業的生態環境以後，臺灣能有更多做product的公司，我們並不是說要打壓做project的公司，我們不是說做project不好，而是說我們必須取得一個平衡，我們希望臺灣有更多的公司做product，而臺灣事實上也有做product的公司，像趨勢、訊連、玩美移動、Peer、TX1等等，這幾家公司都是做product，而且都已經賣到世界去了，他們事實上規模也都相當大了。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，其實講到要打造很好的產品，打造一個很好的平台，我覺得關鍵是人才，剛剛其他委員提到人才的部分，我們面對現實，在人才部分，關於就業金卡、數位金卡，你看，在核卡人士裡面屬於數位領域的，到目前為止，從一開始到現在，到2025年8月累積的就業金卡持卡人，數位人才的比例大概只占6%。也就是說，我們從國外招募的人才大概只有6%，到目前為止，因為數位部比較晚成立，從2023年到現在為止，從針對數位人才發的就業金卡來看，招攬的人才不到1,000人，只有九百多人，你每年度的目標要150人，這個跟產業界的需求有很大程度的落差。","另外，補充一個數據，部長也參與過一個會議，今年7月的時候在經濟發展委員會的顧問會議，會中有提到AI，剛剛有提到新十大建設，會中提到希望每年能夠培育100萬名人才，透過學校，要培育11到12萬名人才。我先講一個現實面，第一個，每年要11萬到12萬人，我們光是現在每年出生的人口都快要沒有12萬人了，大學畢業生可能一年十幾萬，如果每年要11萬到12萬，等於占六成、七成，現在的大學畢業生就要具備這樣的相關能力，更不用講現在的出生率這麼低，所以你要每年培育11萬到12萬人，然後總目標是到100萬人。但是今天數位部的人才，每年從國外邀請來就業的部分，如果你們訂的目標是每年只有150人，這個目標距離AI新十大建設的目標非常遙遠，而且到底是誰在管控？是數位部主導，還是國發會主導，還是誰在主導？我們問國發會，國發會對這件事情沒有設定什麼目標，沒有訂出一個數字，唯一有訂出數字的就是你們，當然你們比較認真，你們有訂出數字，但是數字是每年150人，可是行政院又說一年要培養到11萬人，這個落差到底要怎麼補起來？你們要去哪裡找這些人？還有數位人才的部分，是你們主導還是剛剛提到的國發會主導？還是教育部要主導？包含科系的設立等等，到底要怎麼做到？數字講起來都很偉大，但是我們如果真的面對現實，看到真的來就業的也好，或者是真的從學校培育出來的也好，落差很大，部長要怎麼做？怎麼解決這個實際的落差？"],["林部長宜敬：OK。分兩部分來回答委員的問題，第一個就是人數的問題，現在我們說要有多少的AI人才，但是AI人才本身的定義是非常模糊的，之前我半開玩笑地講說，如果會使用ChatGDP就是AI人才的話，我一年要培養100萬個也不是問題，現在數發部第一個就是由數產署訂出了AI產業人才認定指引，我們把AI的人才分成三種，一種是研究型的，一種是利用現成工具開發AI應用的人才，另外一個是只單純使用AI工具來提升效率的人才，這是不同的，所以我們把他們分開定義出來以後，我們就能比較清楚地掌握到，比較清楚地設定目標，這一點我們會改進。之前我們政府並沒有一個很明確的分類或分級，教育部之前也跟我抱怨過，所以我們數發部現在已經由數產署訂出指引，接下來我們也會在公部門推行同樣的指引，這是第一個部分。","第二個就是攬才的部分，我認為從國外攬才還不是我們主要的目標，我們現在最重要的目標是留才，因為我本身是臺大資訊工程系畢業的，臺大資訊工程系每年訓練了幾十個人才，我那時候是一年50個，現在大概一年一百多個，大部分人才都被美國的AI公司吸走了，第一個，我必須先把這些人才留住。事實上，我前一陣子跟法國商會、法國駐臺大使在聊天，他們也說法國也面臨同樣的問題，法國最頂尖的AI人才也統統都被美國吸走了，所以我們現在想辦法在臺灣建立一個良好的生態系，讓臺灣自己本身的頂尖AI人才願意留在臺灣，為臺灣的軟體公司工作。"],["黃委員健豪：部長剛剛提到，光是一個臺大每年畢業的人數就有一百多人，那麼一年培育的人才要達到你們的目標11萬到12萬，我覺得距離非常遙遠。我想這不是只有數位部的責任，教育部或其他部會都要訂出相關的範圍，不是只有你在努力，不然你要一年培育12萬人，我講過，12萬人幾乎等於現在每年大學畢業生的人數，不可能全臺灣的大學生都唸相關的產業，所以如果你真的要把目標訂為12萬，那我覺得計畫內容要明確一點，不要只是喊數字，如果做不到，就不要喊這個數字，要務實一點，面對這個現實，我覺得這很重要。為什麼要講這個？部長你剛剛上任，也不能怪你，但是我們看世界數位競爭力調查評比的排名，到2024年，我們整體來講是下滑的，包含高階人才，我們從第44名降到第49名，數位科技人才充足的狀況，我們從第32名滑落10名，掉到第42名；還有其他的，包含GDP的支出，還有研究論文比例等等，我們在很多部分，包含針對外籍優秀員工的相關移民法規，我們在這部分也從第30名滑落到第39名，所以如果我們今天想要做一個科技島，不能只有台積電，不能只有硬體，今天要建設一個軟體的、重點的人才培育大國，如果我們的人才、我們的移民相關政策法規沒有跟上的話，當然就做不到。就像我講的，一年大學能夠培養多少本土大學生？一定是從國外攬才，一定占很大一部分，剛剛部長有說不會以國外人才為主，但是我建議，人才庫是全世界在競爭，不是只有臺灣自己而已，所以我們要想辦法，今天大家為什麼願意去美國或其他國家？因為這些國家可能相對在專業人才的相關移民政策或是簽證比較好拿，我們是不是也有相關的政策出來？這個可能不是只有你的問題，你要去跟內政部也好，跟教育部也好，跟各部會也好，設法去提升排名，因為這個排名是很客觀的數據，哪些地方滑落了，我覺得這些地方就是數位部要去做的事情，好不好？部長。"],["林部長宜敬：好，謝謝。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，接下來請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-3","speakers":["洪孟楷","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳素月","徐富癸","魯明哲","何欣純","林俊憲","葛如鈞","李昆澤","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","賴士葆","郭國文","羅美玲","黃健豪","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","游顥","賴惠員","陳冠廷","林國成"],"page_start":239,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長林宜敬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00005"}}}