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簡單來講的話就是我們現在除了在台灣國內的意義備援以外我們也會做雲端的備援就是最關鍵的那些資料最關鍵的那些政府的系統我們會備援到雲端所謂的雲端就包含在那個國外的一些那個data center那我們這個國外的data center平常我們也不會說開放民眾使用所以我只是想確認在韓國發生的事情不會在台灣發生\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 336.97, \"end\": 337.09, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 337.09, \"end\": 337.23, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 337.23, \"end\": 337.791, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 337.791, \"end\": 337.911, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 337.911, \"end\": 338.071, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 338.071, \"end\": 338.591, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 338.591, \"end\": 338.852, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 338.852, \"end\": 339.052, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 339.052, \"end\": 339.672, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 357.084, \"end\": 357.704, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"放\", \"start\": 357.704, \"end\": 357.844, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 357.844, \"end\": 358.164, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 358.164, \"end\": 358.264, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 358.264, \"end\": 358.404, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 358.404, \"end\": 358.465, \"score\": 0.656}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 358.465, \"end\": 358.525, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 358.525, \"end\": 358.665, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 358.665, \"end\": 358.745, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 358.745, \"end\": 358.805, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 358.805, \"end\": 359.865, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 359.865, \"end\": 360.046, 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00:00:32,903\n部長好那延續剛才的委員提到的這個通訊任性的問題我們繼續來去做相關的詢詢那在這次的風災之後我們發覺到幾件事情第一鄉鎮公所有些時候面臨到的是他除了這個沒有電之外甚至有通訊也出現問題是那甚至連隔壁的就是在鄉公所旁邊也會有消防機關\n\n3\n00:00:33,723 --> 00:01:01,969\n那相關機關也沒有電甚至通訊也出現問題那我覺得這個就不符合我們全社會任性的一個目標這其實是非常嚴重的問題那這一個問題我想把它帶出來的原因是因為除了這個之外還有一些承包廠商承包廠商是負責什麼樣的負責道路的最基礎的清運他們被困在他們自己的住所出不來所以變成說整個救災的過程中第一個承包廠商沒有辦法出動重型機具來去把一些重要的道路清空\n\n4\n00:01:02,620 --> 00:01:30,346\n重要道路如果不能清空不能夠通暢的話那外面的救援進不來那附電附水那回覆通訊的時間又拉長所以我在這邊是希望具體的要求我們希望部長能夠來去各跟各個部門來去協調一下至少在負責這些重要主幹道或者是鄉鎮道路或者是這個協助這些第一時間來去回應救災的這些人員他至少要配備一些相關的不管是衛星電話也好\n\n5\n00:01:30,866 --> 00:01:52,274\n或者是基本的無線設備也好這個東西是我一直希望是數位部來去思考說要怎麼去解決的部長有什麼樣的看法有什麼樣的解決方案是目前如果說要衛星通訊的話目前我們書發部採用的是OneWeb系統那OneWeb系統它有幾個缺點第一個是它的體積比較大而且它的費用比較高那我們現在在書發部正\n\n6\n00:01:52,774 --> 00:02:10,671\n跟國科會積極的跟Amazon的Kyper那邊在討論在商談看能不能使用Kyper這個新的新系就是說多一種選擇而且我們希望它的價錢能比OneWeb更便宜這是一個部分然後剛才委員有提到一件事情就是\n\n7\n00:02:11,111 --> 00:02:38,574\n主幹道的事情就是我們事實上大部分的那個光纜的那個主幹也都會是沿著那個主幹道鋪設所以我們希望說這個光纜還有電線盡量能地下化就是地下化如同我們剛剛講的就是說基地台會故障三大原因那個被整個基地台被吹倒其實除了丹納斯颱風以外其實在其他颱風發生或地震發生的頻率沒那麼高最多的問題其實是那個\n\n8\n00:02:39,315 --> 00:03:07,592\n沒有電那電線的話就有兩個解決方案一個是說我們就用柴油發電機移動式柴油發電機去那邊有電以後這個基地台就可以運作了另外一個我們就是就近看能不能找那個那個光電或者風電這個分散式的那個電力供應但是這會有些技術問題這個我們努力的在跟經濟部那邊討論看說有沒有辦法直接用那個就是分散式的電那個\n\n9\n00:03:08,573 --> 00:03:30,923\n那個綠電來供應我們這個基地台部長剛才我提到的有一點就是說負責去清運主要幹道就是說他們是要先有道路通領才會有救援人在水什麼電你要去台電等才能進來我說這些承包廠自己在家裡就受困出不來但同時又沒辦法聯絡所以我剛才提到的是說你有沒有其他相關的通訊配備未來你要盤點嘛\n\n10\n00:03:31,863 --> 00:03:53,224\n就是各個縣市各個鄉鎮公所到各個村裡那通常我們到鄉就好了比方說我們家一線有18個鄉鎮那這18個鄉鎮裡面你一開始就是有災害的時候那我們第一個鄉公所就會請人來趕快先把這些道路恢復原狀嘛那他們如果都出不來的話他們甚至我們不知道為什麼聯絡不到他他也聯絡不到我們所以這個指揮的節點那就是有一個空白點嘛\n\n11\n00:03:53,624 --> 00:04:16,639\n所以我的意思是說要盤點就是說從各個鄉鎮公所從通訊指揮的系統上面你必須至少要點對點剛才我們提到72個小時也好24小時48小時也好如果遇到大規模這次是雲嘉南地區那如果是遇到全台灣市的整理的這個狀況的時候那就沒有辦法我們就可能沒辦法期待說72小時他也會辦法復原那這時候你就變成要調配\n\n12\n00:04:17,239 --> 00:04:41,349\n哪些有優先順序那優先順序裡面的哪一些指揮的連結的系統那就是點對點而不是全面性的網路跟電話恢復那這是在國家安全的前提之下我們必須要思考各個不同的優先次序所以我們當然是可以講說我要72小時我甚至可以要求延長到108個小時但是你沒有辦法在每個點都無限延長你沒有辦法在每個地方都配備柴油發電機\n\n13\n00:04:43,089 --> 00:05:08,017\n就是你的柴油要怎麼樣去分配你的柴油放電機怎麼去分配你怎麼樣把這些柴油再運輸到那個地方其實這是要整體去思考的所以優先資訊還是很重要那我們接下來來討論一下這個韓國資料庫燒毀的問題這個我覺得也很重要這個最近的國營韓國國營的資料中心因為火災導致大規模總共有74個單位是9萬1000公務員共同使用的雲端資料的資料都遺失掉甚至政府運作它是一度中斷\n\n14\n00:05:08,997 --> 00:05:35,231\n如果我們在備援上面有任何這樣子的問題這是我們要注意的那根據現行規範這個公部門的屹立備援是30公里但是國際上包含先進國家大概是在100公里以外這是我最後一個問題不好意思趙偉讓我問這個問題那我想請教現在我們是30公里但國際上是100公里那如果是在同一個地震帶的話甚至是你就在隔壁的話那這個狀況是怎麼樣去處理可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\n\n15\n00:05:36,970 --> 00:06:01,587\nOK簡單來講的話就是我們現在除了在台灣國內的意義備援以外我們也會做雲端的備援就是最關鍵的那些資料最關鍵的那些政府的系統我們會備援到雲端所謂的雲端就包含在那個國外的一些那個datacenter那我們這個國外的datacenter平常我們也不會說開放民眾使用所以我只是想確認在韓國發生的事情不會在台灣發生\n\n16\n00:06:02,327 --> 00:06:29,476\nOK韓國那個事情有三件事情我都覺得很離譜第一件事情就是說為什麼他會把所有的政府機關的資料中心通通集中在一棟大樓裡面因為韓國跟我們一樣他有一個非常不友善的鄰居他怎麼會做這個事情我覺得非常不可思議第二件事情是他居然把不斷電系統的鋰電池跟電腦系統放在一起依照我們台灣政府的規定我們事實上\n\n17\n00:06:31,616 --> 00:06:57,804\n備用的電源像鋰電池這個你是不能跟那個電腦主機放在一起的結果他們就是因為這個電源那個放在一起起火鋰電池起火嘛那第三件事情就是他們居然很多的部門沒有備援沒有異地備援這個事情我們覺得說非常奇怪我們一直覺得說韓國是一個先進的國家韓國在許多政府的資訊化屏蔽裡面好像名列前茅可是他居然在這個事情上面居然做成這個樣子所以部長以上三點我們都不會發生\n\n18\n00:06:59,745 --> 00:07:27,103\n對應該我們就確保不要發生就好這三點我們你剛才已經提到這三點那就不要讓它發生那第四點就是說包含消防設備的點檢就是定期的去檢查包含這些因為那是相關重要的這些機密機械那可能也不是用一般的消防防備去做那我知道內政部過去在一些重要基礎城市都有派警察去但是我下次質詢內政部的話可能就說不是警察而已還要包含消防的消防人員的這個設備人員要怎麼樣去盤點也很重要好謝謝\n\n19\n00:07:28,710 --> 00:07:29,083\n谢谢委员\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3615\t4117\t麻煩請部長 林部長請\n12131\t32903\t部長好那延續剛才的委員提到的這個通訊任性的問題我們繼續來去做相關的詢詢那在這次的風災之後我們發覺到幾件事情第一鄉鎮公所有些時候面臨到的是他除了這個沒有電之外甚至有通訊也出現問題是那甚至連隔壁的就是在鄉公所旁邊也會有消防機關\n33723\t61969\t那相關機關也沒有電甚至通訊也出現問題那我覺得這個就不符合我們全社會任性的一個目標這其實是非常嚴重的問題那這一個問題我想把它帶出來的原因是因為除了這個之外還有一些承包廠商承包廠商是負責什麼樣的負責道路的最基礎的清運他們被困在他們自己的住所出不來所以變成說整個救災的過程中第一個承包廠商沒有辦法出動重型機具來去把一些重要的道路清空\n62620\t90346\t重要道路如果不能清空不能夠通暢的話那外面的救援進不來那附電附水那回覆通訊的時間又拉長所以我在這邊是希望具體的要求我們希望部長能夠來去各跟各個部門來去協調一下至少在負責這些重要主幹道或者是鄉鎮道路或者是這個協助這些第一時間來去回應救災的這些人員他至少要配備一些相關的不管是衛星電話也好\n90866\t112274\t或者是基本的無線設備也好這個東西是我一直希望是數位部來去思考說要怎麼去解決的部長有什麼樣的看法有什麼樣的解決方案是 目前如果說要衛星通訊的話目前我們書發部採用的是OneWeb系統那OneWeb系統它有幾個缺點第一個是它的體積比較大而且它的費用比較高那我們現在在書發部正\n112774\t130671\t跟國科會積極的跟Amazon的Kyper那邊在討論 在商談看能不能使用Kyper這個新的新系就是說多一種選擇而且我們希望它的價錢能比OneWeb更便宜這是一個部分然後剛才委員有提到一件事情就是\n131111\t158574\t主幹道的事情就是我們事實上大部分的那個光纜的那個主幹也都會是沿著那個主幹道鋪設所以我們希望說這個光纜還有電線盡量能地下化就是地下化 如同我們剛剛講的就是說基地台會故障三大原因那個被整個基地台被吹倒其實除了丹納斯颱風以外其實在其他颱風發生或地震發生的頻率沒那麼高最多的問題其實是那個\n159315\t187592\t沒有電那電線的話就有兩個解決方案一個是說我們就用柴油發電機移動式柴油發電機去那邊有電以後這個基地台就可以運作了另外一個我們就是就近看能不能找那個那個光電或者風電這個分散式的那個電力供應但是這會有些技術問題這個我們努力的在跟經濟部那邊討論看說有沒有辦法直接用那個就是分散式的電那個\n188573\t210923\t那個綠電來供應我們這個基地台部長剛才我提到的有一點就是說負責去清運主要幹道就是說他們是要先有道路通領才會有救援人在水什麼電你要去台電等才能進來我說這些承包廠自己在家裡就受困出不來但同時又沒辦法聯絡所以我剛才提到的是說你有沒有其他相關的通訊配備未來你要盤點嘛\n211863\t233224\t就是各個縣市各個鄉鎮公所到各個村裡那通常我們到鄉就好了比方說我們家一線有18個鄉鎮那這18個鄉鎮裡面你一開始就是有災害的時候那我們第一個鄉公所就會請人來趕快先把這些道路恢復原狀嘛那他們如果都出不來的話他們甚至我們不知道為什麼聯絡不到他他也聯絡不到我們所以這個指揮的節點那就是有一個空白點嘛\n233624\t256639\t所以我的意思是說要盤點就是說從各個鄉鎮公所從通訊指揮的系統上面你必須至少要點對點剛才我們提到72個小時也好24小時 48小時也好如果遇到大規模這次是雲嘉南地區那如果是遇到全台灣市的整理的這個狀況的時候那就沒有辦法我們就可能沒辦法期待說72小時他也會辦法復原那這時候你就變成要調配\n257239\t281349\t哪些有優先順序那優先順序裡面的哪一些指揮的連結的系統那就是點對點而不是全面性的網路跟電話恢復那這是在國家安全的前提之下我們必須要思考各個不同的優先次序所以我們當然是可以講說我要72小時我甚至可以要求延長到108個小時但是你沒有辦法在每個點都無限延長你沒有辦法在每個地方都配備柴油發電機\n283089\t308017\t就是你的柴油要怎麼樣去分配你的柴油放電機怎麼去分配你怎麼樣把這些柴油再運輸到那個地方其實這是要整體去思考的所以優先資訊還是很重要那我們接下來來討論一下這個韓國資料庫燒毀的問題這個我覺得也很重要這個最近的國營韓國國營的資料中心因為火災導致大規模總共有74個單位是9萬1000公務員共同使用的雲端資料的資料都遺失掉甚至政府運作它是一度中斷\n308997\t335231\t如果我們在備援上面有任何這樣子的問題這是我們要注意的那根據現行規範這個公部門的屹立備援是30公里但是國際上包含先進國家大概是在100公里以外這是我最後一個問題 不好意思趙偉讓我問這個問題那我想請教現在我們是30公里但國際上是100公里那如果是在同一個地震帶的話甚至是你就在隔壁的話那這個狀況是怎麼樣去處理可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\n336970\t361587\tOK 簡單來講的話就是我們現在除了在台灣國內的意義備援以外我們也會做雲端的備援就是最關鍵的那些資料最關鍵的那些政府的系統我們會備援到雲端所謂的雲端就包含在那個國外的一些那個data center那我們這個國外的data center平常我們也不會說開放民眾使用所以我只是想確認在韓國發生的事情不會在台灣發生\n362327\t389476\tOK 韓國那個事情有三件事情我都覺得很離譜第一件事情就是說為什麼他會把所有的政府機關的資料中心通通集中在一棟大樓裡面因為韓國跟我們一樣他有一個非常不友善的鄰居他怎麼會做這個事情我覺得非常不可思議第二件事情是他居然把不斷電系統的鋰電池跟電腦系統放在一起依照我們台灣政府的規定我們事實上\n391616\t417804\t備用的電源像鋰電池這個你是不能跟那個電腦主機放在一起的結果他們就是因為這個電源那個放在一起起火鋰電池起火嘛那第三件事情就是他們居然很多的部門沒有備援沒有異地備援這個事情我們覺得說非常奇怪我們一直覺得說韓國是一個先進的國家韓國在許多政府的資訊化屏蔽裡面好像名列前茅可是他居然在這個事情上面居然做成這個樣子所以部長以上三點我們都不會發生\n419745\t447103\t對 應該我們就確保不要發生就好這三點我們你剛才已經提到這三點那就不要讓它發生那第四點就是說包含消防設備的點檢就是定期的去檢查包含這些因為那是相關重要的這些機密機械那可能也不是用一般的消防防備去做那我知道內政部過去在一些重要基礎城市都有派警察去但是我下次質詢內政部的話可能就說不是警察而已還要包含消防的消防人員的這個設備人員要怎麼樣去盤點也很重要好 謝謝\n448710\t449083\t谢谢委员\n","txt":"麻煩請部長 林部長請\n部長好那延續剛才的委員提到的這個通訊任性的問題我們繼續來去做相關的詢詢那在這次的風災之後我們發覺到幾件事情第一鄉鎮公所有些時候面臨到的是他除了這個沒有電之外甚至有通訊也出現問題是那甚至連隔壁的就是在鄉公所旁邊也會有消防機關\n那相關機關也沒有電甚至通訊也出現問題那我覺得這個就不符合我們全社會任性的一個目標這其實是非常嚴重的問題那這一個問題我想把它帶出來的原因是因為除了這個之外還有一些承包廠商承包廠商是負責什麼樣的負責道路的最基礎的清運他們被困在他們自己的住所出不來所以變成說整個救災的過程中第一個承包廠商沒有辦法出動重型機具來去把一些重要的道路清空\n重要道路如果不能清空不能夠通暢的話那外面的救援進不來那附電附水那回覆通訊的時間又拉長所以我在這邊是希望具體的要求我們希望部長能夠來去各跟各個部門來去協調一下至少在負責這些重要主幹道或者是鄉鎮道路或者是這個協助這些第一時間來去回應救災的這些人員他至少要配備一些相關的不管是衛星電話也好\n或者是基本的無線設備也好這個東西是我一直希望是數位部來去思考說要怎麼去解決的部長有什麼樣的看法有什麼樣的解決方案是 目前如果說要衛星通訊的話目前我們書發部採用的是OneWeb系統那OneWeb系統它有幾個缺點第一個是它的體積比較大而且它的費用比較高那我們現在在書發部正\n跟國科會積極的跟Amazon的Kyper那邊在討論 在商談看能不能使用Kyper這個新的新系就是說多一種選擇而且我們希望它的價錢能比OneWeb更便宜這是一個部分然後剛才委員有提到一件事情就是\n主幹道的事情就是我們事實上大部分的那個光纜的那個主幹也都會是沿著那個主幹道鋪設所以我們希望說這個光纜還有電線盡量能地下化就是地下化 如同我們剛剛講的就是說基地台會故障三大原因那個被整個基地台被吹倒其實除了丹納斯颱風以外其實在其他颱風發生或地震發生的頻率沒那麼高最多的問題其實是那個\n沒有電那電線的話就有兩個解決方案一個是說我們就用柴油發電機移動式柴油發電機去那邊有電以後這個基地台就可以運作了另外一個我們就是就近看能不能找那個那個光電或者風電這個分散式的那個電力供應但是這會有些技術問題這個我們努力的在跟經濟部那邊討論看說有沒有辦法直接用那個就是分散式的電那個\n那個綠電來供應我們這個基地台部長剛才我提到的有一點就是說負責去清運主要幹道就是說他們是要先有道路通領才會有救援人在水什麼電你要去台電等才能進來我說這些承包廠自己在家裡就受困出不來但同時又沒辦法聯絡所以我剛才提到的是說你有沒有其他相關的通訊配備未來你要盤點嘛\n就是各個縣市各個鄉鎮公所到各個村裡那通常我們到鄉就好了比方說我們家一線有18個鄉鎮那這18個鄉鎮裡面你一開始就是有災害的時候那我們第一個鄉公所就會請人來趕快先把這些道路恢復原狀嘛那他們如果都出不來的話他們甚至我們不知道為什麼聯絡不到他他也聯絡不到我們所以這個指揮的節點那就是有一個空白點嘛\n所以我的意思是說要盤點就是說從各個鄉鎮公所從通訊指揮的系統上面你必須至少要點對點剛才我們提到72個小時也好24小時 48小時也好如果遇到大規模這次是雲嘉南地區那如果是遇到全台灣市的整理的這個狀況的時候那就沒有辦法我們就可能沒辦法期待說72小時他也會辦法復原那這時候你就變成要調配\n哪些有優先順序那優先順序裡面的哪一些指揮的連結的系統那就是點對點而不是全面性的網路跟電話恢復那這是在國家安全的前提之下我們必須要思考各個不同的優先次序所以我們當然是可以講說我要72小時我甚至可以要求延長到108個小時但是你沒有辦法在每個點都無限延長你沒有辦法在每個地方都配備柴油發電機\n就是你的柴油要怎麼樣去分配你的柴油放電機怎麼去分配你怎麼樣把這些柴油再運輸到那個地方其實這是要整體去思考的所以優先資訊還是很重要那我們接下來來討論一下這個韓國資料庫燒毀的問題這個我覺得也很重要這個最近的國營韓國國營的資料中心因為火災導致大規模總共有74個單位是9萬1000公務員共同使用的雲端資料的資料都遺失掉甚至政府運作它是一度中斷\n如果我們在備援上面有任何這樣子的問題這是我們要注意的那根據現行規範這個公部門的屹立備援是30公里但是國際上包含先進國家大概是在100公里以外這是我最後一個問題 不好意思趙偉讓我問這個問題那我想請教現在我們是30公里但國際上是100公里那如果是在同一個地震帶的話甚至是你就在隔壁的話那這個狀況是怎麼樣去處理可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\nOK 簡單來講的話就是我們現在除了在台灣國內的意義備援以外我們也會做雲端的備援就是最關鍵的那些資料最關鍵的那些政府的系統我們會備援到雲端所謂的雲端就包含在那個國外的一些那個data center那我們這個國外的data center平常我們也不會說開放民眾使用所以我只是想確認在韓國發生的事情不會在台灣發生\nOK 韓國那個事情有三件事情我都覺得很離譜第一件事情就是說為什麼他會把所有的政府機關的資料中心通通集中在一棟大樓裡面因為韓國跟我們一樣他有一個非常不友善的鄰居他怎麼會做這個事情我覺得非常不可思議第二件事情是他居然把不斷電系統的鋰電池跟電腦系統放在一起依照我們台灣政府的規定我們事實上\n備用的電源像鋰電池這個你是不能跟那個電腦主機放在一起的結果他們就是因為這個電源那個放在一起起火鋰電池起火嘛那第三件事情就是他們居然很多的部門沒有備援沒有異地備援這個事情我們覺得說非常奇怪我們一直覺得說韓國是一個先進的國家韓國在許多政府的資訊化屏蔽裡面好像名列前茅可是他居然在這個事情上面居然做成這個樣子所以部長以上三點我們都不會發生\n對 應該我們就確保不要發生就好這三點我們你剛才已經提到這三點那就不要讓它發生那第四點就是說包含消防設備的點檢就是定期的去檢查包含這些因為那是相關重要的這些機密機械那可能也不是用一般的消防防備去做那我知道內政部過去在一些重要基礎城市都有派警察去但是我下次質詢內政部的話可能就說不是警察而已還要包含消防的消防人員的這個設備人員要怎麼樣去盤點也很重要好 謝謝\n谢谢委员\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.615 --> 00:04.117\n麻煩請部長林部長請\n\n00:12.131 --> 00:32.903\n部長好那延續剛才的委員提到的這個通訊任性的問題我們繼續來去做相關的詢詢那在這次的風災之後我們發覺到幾件事情第一鄉鎮公所有些時候面臨到的是他除了這個沒有電之外甚至有通訊也出現問題是那甚至連隔壁的就是在鄉公所旁邊也會有消防機關\n\n00:33.723 --> 01:01.969\n那相關機關也沒有電甚至通訊也出現問題那我覺得這個就不符合我們全社會任性的一個目標這其實是非常嚴重的問題那這一個問題我想把它帶出來的原因是因為除了這個之外還有一些承包廠商承包廠商是負責什麼樣的負責道路的最基礎的清運他們被困在他們自己的住所出不來所以變成說整個救災的過程中第一個承包廠商沒有辦法出動重型機具來去把一些重要的道路清空\n\n01:02.620 --> 01:30.346\n重要道路如果不能清空不能夠通暢的話那外面的救援進不來那附電附水那回覆通訊的時間又拉長所以我在這邊是希望具體的要求我們希望部長能夠來去各跟各個部門來去協調一下至少在負責這些重要主幹道或者是鄉鎮道路或者是這個協助這些第一時間來去回應救災的這些人員他至少要配備一些相關的不管是衛星電話也好\n\n01:30.866 --> 01:52.274\n或者是基本的無線設備也好這個東西是我一直希望是數位部來去思考說要怎麼去解決的部長有什麼樣的看法有什麼樣的解決方案是目前如果說要衛星通訊的話目前我們書發部採用的是OneWeb系統那OneWeb系統它有幾個缺點第一個是它的體積比較大而且它的費用比較高那我們現在在書發部正\n\n01:52.774 --> 02:10.671\n跟國科會積極的跟Amazon的Kyper那邊在討論在商談看能不能使用Kyper這個新的新系就是說多一種選擇而且我們希望它的價錢能比OneWeb更便宜這是一個部分然後剛才委員有提到一件事情就是\n\n02:11.111 --> 02:38.574\n主幹道的事情就是我們事實上大部分的那個光纜的那個主幹也都會是沿著那個主幹道鋪設所以我們希望說這個光纜還有電線盡量能地下化就是地下化如同我們剛剛講的就是說基地台會故障三大原因那個被整個基地台被吹倒其實除了丹納斯颱風以外其實在其他颱風發生或地震發生的頻率沒那麼高最多的問題其實是那個\n\n02:39.315 --> 03:07.592\n沒有電那電線的話就有兩個解決方案一個是說我們就用柴油發電機移動式柴油發電機去那邊有電以後這個基地台就可以運作了另外一個我們就是就近看能不能找那個那個光電或者風電這個分散式的那個電力供應但是這會有些技術問題這個我們努力的在跟經濟部那邊討論看說有沒有辦法直接用那個就是分散式的電那個\n\n03:08.573 --> 03:30.923\n那個綠電來供應我們這個基地台部長剛才我提到的有一點就是說負責去清運主要幹道就是說他們是要先有道路通領才會有救援人在水什麼電你要去台電等才能進來我說這些承包廠自己在家裡就受困出不來但同時又沒辦法聯絡所以我剛才提到的是說你有沒有其他相關的通訊配備未來你要盤點嘛\n\n03:31.863 --> 03:53.224\n就是各個縣市各個鄉鎮公所到各個村裡那通常我們到鄉就好了比方說我們家一線有18個鄉鎮那這18個鄉鎮裡面你一開始就是有災害的時候那我們第一個鄉公所就會請人來趕快先把這些道路恢復原狀嘛那他們如果都出不來的話他們甚至我們不知道為什麼聯絡不到他他也聯絡不到我們所以這個指揮的節點那就是有一個空白點嘛\n\n03:53.624 --> 04:16.639\n所以我的意思是說要盤點就是說從各個鄉鎮公所從通訊指揮的系統上面你必須至少要點對點剛才我們提到72個小時也好24小時48小時也好如果遇到大規模這次是雲嘉南地區那如果是遇到全台灣市的整理的這個狀況的時候那就沒有辦法我們就可能沒辦法期待說72小時他也會辦法復原那這時候你就變成要調配\n\n04:17.239 --> 04:41.349\n哪些有優先順序那優先順序裡面的哪一些指揮的連結的系統那就是點對點而不是全面性的網路跟電話恢復那這是在國家安全的前提之下我們必須要思考各個不同的優先次序所以我們當然是可以講說我要72小時我甚至可以要求延長到108個小時但是你沒有辦法在每個點都無限延長你沒有辦法在每個地方都配備柴油發電機\n\n04:43.089 --> 05:08.017\n就是你的柴油要怎麼樣去分配你的柴油放電機怎麼去分配你怎麼樣把這些柴油再運輸到那個地方其實這是要整體去思考的所以優先資訊還是很重要那我們接下來來討論一下這個韓國資料庫燒毀的問題這個我覺得也很重要這個最近的國營韓國國營的資料中心因為火災導致大規模總共有74個單位是9萬1000公務員共同使用的雲端資料的資料都遺失掉甚至政府運作它是一度中斷\n\n05:08.997 --> 05:35.231\n如果我們在備援上面有任何這樣子的問題這是我們要注意的那根據現行規範這個公部門的屹立備援是30公里但是國際上包含先進國家大概是在100公里以外這是我最後一個問題不好意思趙偉讓我問這個問題那我想請教現在我們是30公里但國際上是100公里那如果是在同一個地震帶的話甚至是你就在隔壁的話那這個狀況是怎麼樣去處理可不可以請部長簡單回應一下\n\n05:36.970 --> 06:01.587\nOK簡單來講的話就是我們現在除了在台灣國內的意義備援以外我們也會做雲端的備援就是最關鍵的那些資料最關鍵的那些政府的系統我們會備援到雲端所謂的雲端就包含在那個國外的一些那個datacenter那我們這個國外的datacenter平常我們也不會說開放民眾使用所以我只是想確認在韓國發生的事情不會在台灣發生\n\n06:02.327 --> 06:29.476\nOK韓國那個事情有三件事情我都覺得很離譜第一件事情就是說為什麼他會把所有的政府機關的資料中心通通集中在一棟大樓裡面因為韓國跟我們一樣他有一個非常不友善的鄰居他怎麼會做這個事情我覺得非常不可思議第二件事情是他居然把不斷電系統的鋰電池跟電腦系統放在一起依照我們台灣政府的規定我們事實上\n\n06:31.616 --> 06:57.804\n備用的電源像鋰電池這個你是不能跟那個電腦主機放在一起的結果他們就是因為這個電源那個放在一起起火鋰電池起火嘛那第三件事情就是他們居然很多的部門沒有備援沒有異地備援這個事情我們覺得說非常奇怪我們一直覺得說韓國是一個先進的國家韓國在許多政府的資訊化屏蔽裡面好像名列前茅可是他居然在這個事情上面居然做成這個樣子所以部長以上三點我們都不會發生\n\n06:59.745 --> 07:27.103\n對應該我們就確保不要發生就好這三點我們你剛才已經提到這三點那就不要讓它發生那第四點就是說包含消防設備的點檢就是定期的去檢查包含這些因為那是相關重要的這些機密機械那可能也不是用一般的消防防備去做那我知道內政部過去在一些重要基礎城市都有派警察去但是我下次質詢內政部的話可能就說不是警察而已還要包含消防的消防人員的這個設備人員要怎麼樣去盤點也很重要好謝謝\n\n07:28.710 --> 07:29.083\n谢谢委员\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.615,"end":4.117,"text":"麻煩請部長 林部長請"},{"start":12.131,"end":32.903,"text":"部長好那延續剛才的委員提到的這個通訊任性的問題我們繼續來去做相關的詢詢那在這次的風災之後我們發覺到幾件事情第一鄉鎮公所有些時候面臨到的是他除了這個沒有電之外甚至有通訊也出現問題是那甚至連隔壁的就是在鄉公所旁邊也會有消防機關"},{"start":33.723,"end":61.969,"text":"那相關機關也沒有電甚至通訊也出現問題那我覺得這個就不符合我們全社會任性的一個目標這其實是非常嚴重的問題那這一個問題我想把它帶出來的原因是因為除了這個之外還有一些承包廠商承包廠商是負責什麼樣的負責道路的最基礎的清運他們被困在他們自己的住所出不來所以變成說整個救災的過程中第一個承包廠商沒有辦法出動重型機具來去把一些重要的道路清空"},{"start":62.62,"end":90.346,"text":"重要道路如果不能清空不能夠通暢的話那外面的救援進不來那附電附水那回覆通訊的時間又拉長所以我在這邊是希望具體的要求我們希望部長能夠來去各跟各個部門來去協調一下至少在負責這些重要主幹道或者是鄉鎮道路或者是這個協助這些第一時間來去回應救災的這些人員他至少要配備一些相關的不管是衛星電話也好"},{"start":90.866,"end":112.274,"text":"或者是基本的無線設備也好這個東西是我一直希望是數位部來去思考說要怎麼去解決的部長有什麼樣的看法有什麼樣的解決方案是 目前如果說要衛星通訊的話目前我們書發部採用的是OneWeb系統那OneWeb系統它有幾個缺點第一個是它的體積比較大而且它的費用比較高那我們現在在書發部正"},{"start":112.774,"end":130.671,"text":"跟國科會積極的跟Amazon的Kyper那邊在討論 在商談看能不能使用Kyper這個新的新系就是說多一種選擇而且我們希望它的價錢能比OneWeb更便宜這是一個部分然後剛才委員有提到一件事情就是"},{"start":131.111,"end":158.574,"text":"主幹道的事情就是我們事實上大部分的那個光纜的那個主幹也都會是沿著那個主幹道鋪設所以我們希望說這個光纜還有電線盡量能地下化就是地下化 如同我們剛剛講的就是說基地台會故障三大原因那個被整個基地台被吹倒其實除了丹納斯颱風以外其實在其他颱風發生或地震發生的頻率沒那麼高最多的問題其實是那個"},{"start":159.315,"end":187.592,"text":"沒有電那電線的話就有兩個解決方案一個是說我們就用柴油發電機移動式柴油發電機去那邊有電以後這個基地台就可以運作了另外一個我們就是就近看能不能找那個那個光電或者風電這個分散式的那個電力供應但是這會有些技術問題這個我們努力的在跟經濟部那邊討論看說有沒有辦法直接用那個就是分散式的電那個"},{"start":188.573,"end":210.923,"text":"那個綠電來供應我們這個基地台部長剛才我提到的有一點就是說負責去清運主要幹道就是說他們是要先有道路通領才會有救援人在水什麼電你要去台電等才能進來我說這些承包廠自己在家裡就受困出不來但同時又沒辦法聯絡所以我剛才提到的是說你有沒有其他相關的通訊配備未來你要盤點嘛"},{"start":211.863,"end":233.224,"text":"就是各個縣市各個鄉鎮公所到各個村裡那通常我們到鄉就好了比方說我們家一線有18個鄉鎮那這18個鄉鎮裡面你一開始就是有災害的時候那我們第一個鄉公所就會請人來趕快先把這些道路恢復原狀嘛那他們如果都出不來的話他們甚至我們不知道為什麼聯絡不到他他也聯絡不到我們所以這個指揮的節點那就是有一個空白點嘛"},{"start":233.624,"end":256.639,"text":"所以我的意思是說要盤點就是說從各個鄉鎮公所從通訊指揮的系統上面你必須至少要點對點剛才我們提到72個小時也好24小時 48小時也好如果遇到大規模這次是雲嘉南地區那如果是遇到全台灣市的整理的這個狀況的時候那就沒有辦法我們就可能沒辦法期待說72小時他也會辦法復原那這時候你就變成要調配"},{"start":257.239,"end":281.349,"text":"哪些有優先順序那優先順序裡面的哪一些指揮的連結的系統那就是點對點而不是全面性的網路跟電話恢復那這是在國家安全的前提之下我們必須要思考各個不同的優先次序所以我們當然是可以講說我要72小時我甚至可以要求延長到108個小時但是你沒有辦法在每個點都無限延長你沒有辦法在每個地方都配備柴油發電機"},{"start":283.089,"end":308.017,"text":"就是你的柴油要怎麼樣去分配你的柴油放電機怎麼去分配你怎麼樣把這些柴油再運輸到那個地方其實這是要整體去思考的所以優先資訊還是很重要那我們接下來來討論一下這個韓國資料庫燒毀的問題這個我覺得也很重要這個最近的國營韓國國營的資料中心因為火災導致大規模總共有74個單位是9萬1000公務員共同使用的雲端資料的資料都遺失掉甚至政府運作它是一度中斷"},{"start":308.997,"end":335.231,"text":"如果我們在備援上面有任何這樣子的問題這是我們要注意的那根據現行規範這個公部門的屹立備援是30公里但是國際上包含先進國家大概是在100公里以外這是我最後一個問題 不好意思趙偉讓我問這個問題那我想請教現在我們是30公里但國際上是100公里那如果是在同一個地震帶的話甚至是你就在隔壁的話那這個狀況是怎麼樣去處理可不可以請部長簡單回應一下"},{"start":336.97,"end":361.587,"text":"OK 簡單來講的話就是我們現在除了在台灣國內的意義備援以外我們也會做雲端的備援就是最關鍵的那些資料最關鍵的那些政府的系統我們會備援到雲端所謂的雲端就包含在那個國外的一些那個data center那我們這個國外的data center平常我們也不會說開放民眾使用所以我只是想確認在韓國發生的事情不會在台灣發生"},{"start":362.327,"end":389.476,"text":"OK 韓國那個事情有三件事情我都覺得很離譜第一件事情就是說為什麼他會把所有的政府機關的資料中心通通集中在一棟大樓裡面因為韓國跟我們一樣他有一個非常不友善的鄰居他怎麼會做這個事情我覺得非常不可思議第二件事情是他居然把不斷電系統的鋰電池跟電腦系統放在一起依照我們台灣政府的規定我們事實上"},{"start":391.616,"end":417.804,"text":"備用的電源像鋰電池這個你是不能跟那個電腦主機放在一起的結果他們就是因為這個電源那個放在一起起火鋰電池起火嘛那第三件事情就是他們居然很多的部門沒有備援沒有異地備援這個事情我們覺得說非常奇怪我們一直覺得說韓國是一個先進的國家韓國在許多政府的資訊化屏蔽裡面好像名列前茅可是他居然在這個事情上面居然做成這個樣子所以部長以上三點我們都不會發生"},{"start":419.745,"end":447.103,"text":"對 應該我們就確保不要發生就好這三點我們你剛才已經提到這三點那就不要讓它發生那第四點就是說包含消防設備的點檢就是定期的去檢查包含這些因為那是相關重要的這些機密機械那可能也不是用一般的消防防備去做那我知道內政部過去在一些重要基礎城市都有派警察去但是我下次質詢內政部的話可能就說不是警察而已還要包含消防的消防人員的這個設備人員要怎麼樣去盤點也很重要好 謝謝"},{"start":448.71,"end":449.083,"text":"谢谢委员"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1197,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（13時12分）召委，麻煩請部長。"],["主席：好，林部長請。"],["林部長宜敬：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長好。延續剛才委員提到的通訊韌性問題，我們繼續來做相關的質詢。在這一次風災之後，我們發覺到幾件事情：第一，鄉鎮公所有些時候面臨到的是，除了沒有電之外，甚至通訊也出現問題；在鄉公所旁邊也會有消防機關，消防機關也沒有電，甚至通訊也出現問題，我覺得這就不符合全社會防衛韌性的目標，這其實是非常嚴重的問題。"],["林部長宜敬：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員冠廷：這一個問題的原因在於，除了這個之外，還有一些承包廠商，承包廠商是負責什麼？負責最基礎的道路清運，他們被困在他們自己的住所出不來，所以變成整個救災的過程中，第一個，承包廠商沒有辦法出動重型機具去把一些重要的道路清空，重要的道路如果不能清空、不能通暢的話，外面的救援進不來，復電、復水、回復通訊的時間又拉長。所以我在這邊具體的要求，我們希望部長能夠去跟各個部門協調一下，至少在負責這些重要主幹道、或者是鄉鎮道路、或者是協助第一時間回應救災的這些人員至少要配備一些相關的工具，不管是衛星電話也好、或者是基本的無線設備也好，這個東西我一直希望數位部思考要怎麼解決，部長有什麼樣的看法、有什麼樣的解決方案？"],["林部長宜敬：如果說要衛星通訊的話，目前我們數發部採用的是OneWeb系統，而OneWeb系統有幾個缺點，第一個是它的體積比較大、而且它的費用比較高，我們數發部現在與國科會正積極的跟Amazon的Kuiper那邊商談，看能不能使用Kuiper這個新系統，也就是多一種選擇，而且我們希望它的價錢能比OneWeb更便宜，這是一部分。","剛才委員有提到一件事情就是主幹道的事情，事實上，大部分的光纜主幹也都會沿著主幹道鋪設，所以我們希望光纜還有電線儘量能地下化就地下化，如同我剛才講的基地臺故障三大原因，關於整個基地臺被吹倒的，除了丹娜絲颱風以外，在其他颱風或地震時發生的頻率沒那麼高，最多的問題其實是沒有電。關於電線有兩個解決方案：一個是用移動式柴油發電機去到那邊，有電以後基地臺就可以運作了；另外，我們就近看能不能找光電或者風電等等分散式的電力供應，但是這會有一些技術問題，這部分我們努力的在跟經濟部那邊討論，看有沒有辦法直接用分散式的綠電來供應基地臺。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，剛才我提到的其中一點就是負責去清運主要幹道，也就是道路要先通了，他們才能進來救援水、電，台電的人才能進來。我說這些承包廠商自己在家裡就受困出不來，但同時又沒辦法聯絡，所以我剛才提到的是，你有沒有其他相關的通訊配備？未來你要盤點嘛，針對各個縣市、各個鄉鎮公所到各個村里！"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們到鄉就好了，比方我們嘉義縣有18個鄉鎮，在這18個鄉鎮裡面，一開始有災害的時候，第一個，鄉公所就會請人趕快先把這些道路恢復原狀，他們如果都出不來的話，甚至我們不知道為什麼聯絡不到他、他也聯絡不到我們，所以這個指揮的節點就是有一個空白點嘛！所以我的意思是要盤點，就是從各個鄉鎮公所、從通訊指揮的系統上面，你至少要點對點……"],["林部長宜敬：是……"],["陳委員冠廷：剛才我們提到72個小時也好、48小時也好，這次是雲嘉南地區，如果是遇到全臺灣、大規模狀況的時候，我們可能就沒辦法期待72小時有辦法復原。"],["林部長宜敬：是！"],["陳委員冠廷：這時候你就變成要調配，看看哪些有優先順序、優先順序裡面有哪一些指揮連結系統，那就是點對點而不是全面性的網路跟電話恢復，這是在國家安全的前提之下，我們必須要思考各個不同的優先次序。我們當然跟你講說我要72小時，我甚至可以要求延長到108個小時，但是你沒有辦法在每個點都無限延長、你沒有辦法在每個地方都配備柴油發電機，還有你的柴油要怎麼樣分配、你的柴油發電機怎麼分配、你怎麼把這些柴油再運輸到那個地方，其實這是要整體去思考的，所以優先次序還是很重要。","我們接下來討論一下韓國資料庫燒毀的問題，這個我覺得也很重要。"],["林部長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：最近韓國國營的資料中心因為火災導致大規模總共有74個單位、十九萬多名公務員共同使用的雲端資料資料都遺失掉，甚至政府運作一度中斷，如果我們在備援上面有任何這樣子的問題，這是我們要注意的。","根據現行規範，公部門的異地備援是30公里，但是國際上、包含先進國家大概是在100公里以外，這是我的最後一個問題，不好意思召委，讓我問完這個問題。我想請教，現在我們是30公里，但國際上是100公里，如果在同一個地震帶、甚至就在隔壁的話，這個狀況要怎麼樣處理，可不可以請部長簡單回應一下？"],["林部長宜敬：簡單來講，我們現在除了在臺灣國內的異地備援以外，我們也會做雲端的備援，就是那些最關鍵的資料、最關鍵的政府系統我們會備援到雲端，所謂的雲端就包含在國外的一些data center，這個國外的data center平常我們也不會開放民眾使用……"],["陳委員冠廷：所以我只是想確認，在韓國發生的事情不會在臺灣發生？"],["林部長宜敬：韓國那部分有三件事情我都覺得很離譜，第一件事情就是，為什麼他會把所有政府機關的資料中心通通集中在一棟大樓裡面，因為韓國跟我們一樣有一個非常不友善的鄰居，他怎麼會做這個事情，我覺得非常不可思議；第二件事情，他居然把不斷電系統的鋰電池跟電腦系統放在一起，依照我們臺灣政府的規定，備用的電源像鋰電池是不能跟電腦主機放在一起的，結果他們就是因為這個電源放在一起起火、鋰電池起火；第三件事情，他們居然很多部門沒有異地備援，這個事情我們覺得非常奇怪，我們一直覺得韓國是一個先進的國家，韓國在許多政府資訊化評比裡面好像名列前茅，可是他在這個事情上面居然做成這個樣子，我們覺得很奇怪！"],["陳委員冠廷：所以部長，以上三點我們都不會發生？"],["林部長宜敬：對，應該……"],["陳委員冠廷：我們確保不要發生就好了，你剛才已經提到這三點，那就不要讓它發生。"],["林部長宜敬：是、對！"],["陳委員冠廷：第四點就是，包含消防設備的點檢，就是定期的去檢查，因為那是相關、重要的精密機械，可能也不是用一般的消防防備去做，我知道內政部過去在一些重要基礎設施都有派警察去，我下次質詢內政部可能就會說不是警察而已，還要包含消防人員、設備人員要怎麼樣去盤點也很重要，謝謝。"],["林部長宜敬：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來請羅明才、羅明才、羅明才委員。","林楚茵、林楚茵、林楚茵委員。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員。","高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅委員。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：一、報告及詢答完畢；二、委員林國成所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，並且刊登公報；三、委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答復部分，請數發部儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":310,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-23-3","speakers":["洪孟楷","蔡其昌","許智傑","陳素月","徐富癸","魯明哲","何欣純","林俊憲","葛如鈞","李昆澤","廖先翔","陳雪生","邱若華","賴士葆","郭國文","羅美玲","黃健豪","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","游顥","賴惠員","陳冠廷","林國成"],"page_start":239,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長林宜敬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00005"}}}