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\"就\", \"start\": 50.397, \"end\": 50.537, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 50.537, \"end\": 50.557, \"score\": 0.016}, {\"word\": \"說\"}]}, {\"start\": 51.758, \"end\": 78.769, \"text\": \"他們也會覺得說相對的這個空間可能也都比較大可以包容他的孩子所以這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙自閉症學習障礙的孩子或者是隱性特殊需求的孩子都去了實驗教育那我想問一下就是說從部長您這樣看的話您自己會對於實驗教育是不是需要對於實驗教育需要更多的特教資源這一個態度上面你是認可的嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 51.758, \"end\": 51.958, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 51.958, \"end\": 52.318, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 52.318, \"end\": 52.999, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 52.999, \"end\": 53.379, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 53.379, \"end\": 55.52, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 55.52, \"end\": 56.7, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 56.7, \"end\": 56.8, 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{\"start\": 79.875, \"end\": 106.325, \"text\": \"是的 我想因為確實陳如瑋剛才所提的有一些家長因為實驗教育它的多樣性跟它的很多的課程它比較能夠考慮到個人的需求所以家長會希望當他的這個小孩子有需要有一些特別的一些幫助的時候部長我想問的是說您覺得我們是不是要給他更多的支持我想我們會因為接下來來講我們也會有一些額外的一些經費上的一些幫助\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 79.875, \"end\": 79.995, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 79.995, \"end\": 80.135, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 80.135, \"end\": 80.295, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 80.295, \"end\": 80.675, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 80.675, \"end\": 81.996, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 81.996, \"end\": 82.216, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"瑋\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 82.216, \"end\": 82.456, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 82.456, \"end\": 82.696, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 82.696, \"end\": 82.896, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"的\", 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\"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 338.106, \"end\": 338.246, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 338.246, \"end\": 338.366, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 338.366, \"end\": 338.807, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"嘛\", \"start\": 338.807, \"end\": 339.067, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 339.067, \"end\": 339.587, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 339.587, \"end\": 340.168, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"元\", \"start\": 340.168, \"end\": 340.368, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 340.368, \"end\": 340.508, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 340.508, \"end\": 340.608, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"哪\", \"start\": 340.608, \"end\": 340.748, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 340.748, \"end\": 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\"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 743.601, \"end\": 744.803, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 744.803, \"end\": 744.963, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 744.963, \"end\": 745.023, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 745.023, \"end\": 745.043, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,349 --> 00:00:24,414\n部長好我想跟部長先來討論有關於實驗教育的一個題目等我一下喔就是說呢我們這幾年從107年開始實驗教育的學生成長1.75%可是呢特殊教育的學生是成長153%你可以明顯地從這個圖表看到這個比例是非常非常劇烈的攀升\n\n2\n00:00:25,214 --> 00:00:50,557\n那其實就代表是說實驗教育這麼多年來它其實承接了許多特殊需求的學生那為什麼呢主要是因為這個師生比比較低家長認為可能比較可以給予特殊需求的孩子比較好的照顧以及他們也認為教學彈性多元可能比較能夠反符合這個特殊需求學童的一個學習的需求這樣子那再來就是說\n\n3\n00:00:51,758 --> 00:01:18,769\n他們也會覺得說相對的這個空間可能也都比較大可以包容他的孩子所以這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙自閉症學習障礙的孩子或者是隱性特殊需求的孩子都去了實驗教育那我想問一下就是說從部長您這樣看的話您自己會對於實驗教育是不是需要對於實驗教育需要更多的特教資源這一個態度上面你是認可的嗎\n\n4\n00:01:19,875 --> 00:01:46,325\n是的我想因為確實陳如瑋剛才所提的有一些家長因為實驗教育它的多樣性跟它的很多的課程它比較能夠考慮到個人的需求所以家長會希望當他的這個小孩子有需要有一些特別的一些幫助的時候部長我想問的是說您覺得我們是不是要給他更多的支持我想我們會因為接下來來講我們也會有一些額外的一些經費上的一些幫助\n\n5\n00:01:46,665 --> 00:02:07,886\n那個部長我先跟你重回歷史一下複述一下歷史其實這個題目在去年六月就已經問過了因為呢我們承接了這麼多的孩子可是我們給的社交資源非常非常實驗教育的社交資源是非常非常不足的那其實已經一整年過去了我114年的預算提案又再度的講到這件事情那我想剛剛部長也提到說我們可以給予支持\n\n6\n00:02:08,566 --> 00:02:35,147\n那我希望這個支持是更務實的支持也就是說我們今年我收到的預算回文就是說我們有邀請到跟地方來討論我們有跟相關團體討論那今天我們是不是可以來討論時程因為已經給了一年的時間我們可不可以在年底前年底前提出實驗教育中特殊學生的特教需求我們來編列經費支持我們現在每個學生已經有補助1.2萬\n\n7\n00:02:37,628 --> 00:02:56,233\n現在每個學生已經有編列所以是說明年就會開始執行嗎?14學年現在就在執行了會後我們把資料給委員我們有兩件事情在做第一個但是之前是講的是低收入跟中低收入戶啊特殊需求的學生那個時候4月的時候\n\n8\n00:02:58,934 --> 00:03:15,436\n那實際上在8月1號以後就執行了那麼第二點地方政府我們還外加10萬元去處理這些特教行政實驗教育的部分這個學年度這個學年度已經開始了做了兩項新增的工作會後我們整理給委員\n\n9\n00:03:16,297 --> 00:03:29,969\n好謝謝也非常謝謝教育部對於特殊教育在CN教育面的特殊生的資源投注接下來我要請教有關於才化法的影響特別是對於偏鄉教育的部分\n\n10\n00:03:33,112 --> 00:03:59,885\n首先呢因為我想大家今天早上也非常多國民黨的委員都非常關心到底這個才化法對於地方的影響到底是什麼那我自己這段時間也遇到了許多的家長團體都在問我說那個午餐費為什麼中央不出啦等等的還有這個偏鄉教育還有那個教師的一些薪資補貼那會不會出會不會有影響等等的所以我也想就這一題來跟部長做一個請教就是說\n\n11\n00:04:01,025 --> 00:04:24,830\n我知道以營養務生來說其實這個在台北跟新北都說他們會去編列了但是呢台中盧市長還是說他不會去編列他是說他財政充裕一定願意做那我想問一下我們是不是已經跟地方都已經溝通過了呢這點我想要再次確認一下是不是已經都確認過了\n\n12\n00:04:28,303 --> 00:04:57,146\n是跟委員報告我想說這個財化法有關於一些跟地方之間的財源調配的事情包括在行政院或行政院主義總署從八月中的時候其實都已經有召開過四次的協調會議所以地方都已經溝通所以都已經清楚傳遞這個訊息了對嗎對地方政府應該都知道有哪一些的補助款可能中央已經沒有辦法再繼續負擔而必須要協調地方政府能夠幫忙分攤\n\n13\n00:04:58,544 --> 00:05:18,210\n好喔那我想就是說外面有傳報導也是說教育部的預算比跟今年度相比我們減少了908億元那教育部給我的是79億元那我想知道這個差別到底是在哪裡然後還有這個到底這個減少的地方到底是在哪些部分可不可以簡單做個說明\n\n14\n00:05:21,813 --> 00:05:41,429\n是跟委員說明一下就是這裡面提到的減少到那個900億元他大概就是因為沒有算到就是行政院還有分配給交易部的一塊813億元他們沒有去算到那個部分就對了了解所以整體來說是79億元沒錯嘛對不對那79億元更是哪些項目呢簡單來說\n\n15\n00:05:45,990 --> 00:06:12,408\n79億元的話裡面大概最大的項目就是也是針對地方政府的補助地方政府的補助有減少了160幾億元這是裡面最大的一個項目但是其實地方聽起來就是地方拿了蠻多錢走的嘛那我覺得現在應該要問的是說那地方拿了這些錢到底去做了什麼嘛對不對拿了這些錢因為據我所知台北跟新北都可以編為什麼台中不能編那據我所知呢好像現在台中\n\n16\n00:06:13,028 --> 00:06:31,021\n現在已經在審相關的預算我說各縣市政府已經在審預算可是台中好像並沒有把這些新增的部分加進去我覺得最要去問的是那到底台中市你們要拿這些錢去做什麼為什麼要苦孩子那再來還有一個我覺得我也想跟部長請教就是說如果說今天\n\n17\n00:06:33,035 --> 00:06:44,232\n我們先講到這個我們聽起來就是如果地方政府沒有把經費放在教育經費的話那受害的就是孩子我們有任何的手段可以阻止嗎\n\n18\n00:06:47,506 --> 00:07:02,983\n跟我們報告確實當時因應財務法我們也跟地方縣市政府教育局做這樣的一個討論就是說當教育部原來在一般補助裡邊行政已經下去了等於\n\n19\n00:07:03,924 --> 00:07:23,449\n這裡邊原來是包含我們原來政策的推動這個我們會告訴他哪些銀額對我知道但是他不做呢我們還有什麼手段可以來守護我們的孩子嗎跟地方縣市教育局局長提醒他們說這些錢本來行政就用一般補助下去了那這時候你\n\n20\n00:07:25,289 --> 00:07:44,194\n聽起來好像就是勸要怎麼樣把這個經費能夠落實編在地方的教育事務上我想這個我們是也有意思的一個但是我聽起來我覺得好像是柔性的勸說那我提供一個想法給部長來做一個討論就是說特別我關心這個偏鄉學生的教育權\n\n21\n00:07:45,094 --> 00:08:08,828\n因為115年我們有編列相關的教育經費像是偏鄉學校宿舍修繕甚至偏鄉教育的專業教師人力的補足這個在偏鄉條例實施之後都有專案的經費但是接下來從明年開始我們到底我們的中央補助的經費會不會因此而減少呢那我們114年補助的18億那明年度的偏鄉學校又該怎麼辦呢\n\n22\n00:08:13,223 --> 00:08:32,888\n跟委員報告在偏鄉這一個部分基本上我們教育部還是會有一個比較大的來一個協助譬如說我最近到各偏鄉地區去走那我們也發現了要讓老師留下來就學生的老師的宿舍有一些年久失修沒錯那我們怎麼樣優先來補助對這一個來改善\n\n23\n00:08:35,769 --> 00:08:54,963\n我想最近我不管到花蓮到屏東我們都發現這樣相同的問題包含台東我們都會優先來協助地方來中小學來做一些教室宿舍的改善但是聽起來說我們在偏鄉的補助上面還是會維持一定的比例維持一定的一個優先來做協助\n\n24\n00:08:58,345 --> 00:09:23,064\n好那部長我也想請教就是說如果說我們有沒有機會來推動一個修法就是地方教育經費最低比例來避免教育被犧牲讓這件事情來入法才能夠去確保我們的教育經費分到了地方之後不會受到影響這個部分部長是不是可以去做一個研議來思考一下\n\n25\n00:09:25,004 --> 00:09:51,798\n委員報告教育這一個全國的教育的總預算它事實上教育經費編列管理辦法它本來就有一定的地方的部分也有嗎有個比例的規範嗎全國家地方它是有一個規範那當然我們目前也有一套的一個這一個中央編多少地方編多少的一套的計算方式但是我也必須要跟委員承認因為財務法以後這整個秩序\n\n26\n00:09:52,378 --> 00:10:06,947\n亂掉了所以我們必須要重新建立一個規範看怎麼樣有一個更好的支撐全國教育政策的推動跟地方是不是應該要來重新的而且必須要讓它更明確來去確保\n\n27\n00:10:10,329 --> 00:10:39,291\n請這一個我們這一個相關的委員會再研議這一個好那這部分我可以再跟我再跟那個部長在之後可能再進一步的討論好那最後給我一點時間就是有關於最近新制上路的這個教師升星條試駕啦那其實有一些家長就會擔心說啊這個到時候老師會不會一直請假啊然後孩子教學會不會有任何的影響啊不過其實我去跟一些校長在確認是說大家好像普遍來說就是覺得說這是一個新制啦新制我們就先上路那我想但是\n\n28\n00:10:39,691 --> 00:11:05,745\n校長也有一些擔心就是未來上路有一些狀況有沒有一些檢討滾動的修正的一個方法或是一個會議來去確認說到時候有什麼問題的話大家可以再來做一些調整這樣子我們是不是有相關的滾動性會議的修正感謝委員的一個提醒本來身心調適下就是用來支撐老師但是這個制度剛開始我也相信我們老師他本身是專業\n\n29\n00:11:07,666 --> 00:11:22,303\n對學生的一個照顧包括他的責任我相信他一定會有一個相對好的一個考量到個人的需求跟這個學童的一個照顧但是在未來如果有什麼樣的問題我當然我們也可以來做政策滾動式的一個\n\n30\n00:11:22,363 --> 00:11:49,139\n我想我们就这个学期结束之后好不好我们来做一个检讨看有没有要再修正的地方那最后我也想要争取再给我30秒而已我只是想要争取我们现在公立幼儿园的教保员是不是也可以适用这样子的制度因为现在老师有可是教保员没有那一员两制两个世界我自己会认为说对于这个现场的教保员来说心情可能会不是那么舒适是不是有可能把这个公立教保员也纳入呢\n\n31\n00:11:52,210 --> 00:12:17,057\n跟委員報告教保員的部分目前來講是適用勞基法我知道那這個部分我們再跟勞動部這邊因為當時在研議身心調適教的過程當中是有找勞動部來的那這個部分涉及到整個他們勞動部的一個政策這個我們再跟勞動部這邊講那我大概多久再來追你們相關的進度呢還是你們多久可以再給我們再給我們一個相關的說明\n\n32\n00:12:19,456 --> 00:12:25,043\n應該一個月內應該可以好謝謝你喔謝謝好謝謝張雅琳委員謝謝行政部\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n349\t24414\t部長好我想跟部長先來討論有關於實驗教育的一個題目等我一下喔就是說呢我們這幾年從107年開始實驗教育的學生成長1.75%可是呢特殊教育的學生是成長153%你可以明顯地從這個圖表看到這個比例是非常非常劇烈的攀升\n25214\t50557\t那其實就代表是說實驗教育這麼多年來它其實承接了許多特殊需求的學生那為什麼呢主要是因為這個師生比比較低家長認為可能比較可以給予特殊需求的孩子比較好的照顧以及他們也認為教學彈性多元可能比較能夠反符合這個特殊需求學童的一個學習的需求這樣子那再來就是說\n51758\t78769\t他們也會覺得說相對的這個空間可能也都比較大可以包容他的孩子所以這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙自閉症學習障礙的孩子或者是隱性特殊需求的孩子都去了實驗教育那我想問一下就是說從部長您這樣看的話您自己會對於實驗教育是不是需要對於實驗教育需要更多的特教資源這一個態度上面你是認可的嗎\n79875\t106325\t是的 我想因為確實陳如瑋剛才所提的有一些家長因為實驗教育它的多樣性跟它的很多的課程它比較能夠考慮到個人的需求所以家長會希望當他的這個小孩子有需要有一些特別的一些幫助的時候部長我想問的是說您覺得我們是不是要給他更多的支持我想我們會因為接下來來講我們也會有一些額外的一些經費上的一些幫助\n106665\t127886\t那個部長我先跟你重回歷史一下複述一下歷史其實這個題目在去年六月就已經問過了因為呢我們承接了這麼多的孩子可是我們給的社交資源非常非常實驗教育的社交資源是非常非常不足的那其實已經一整年過去了我114年的預算提案又再度的講到這件事情那我想剛剛部長也提到說我們可以給予支持\n128566\t155147\t那我希望這個支持是更務實的支持也就是說我們今年我收到的預算回文就是說我們有邀請到跟地方來討論我們有跟相關團體討論那今天我們是不是可以來討論時程因為已經給了一年的時間我們可不可以在年底前年底前提出實驗教育中特殊學生的特教需求我們來編列經費支持我們現在每個學生已經有補助1.2萬\n157628\t176233\t現在每個學生已經有編列所以是說明年就會開始執行嗎?14學年 現在就在執行了會後我們把資料給委員我們有兩件事情在做 第一個但是之前是講的是低收入跟中低收入戶啊特殊需求的學生那個時候4月的時候\n178934\t195436\t那實際上在8月1號以後就執行了那麼第二點地方政府我們還外加10萬元去處理這些特教行政實驗教育的部分這個學年度這個學年度已經開始了做了兩項新增的工作會後我們整理給委員\n196297\t209969\t好 謝謝 也非常謝謝教育部對於特殊教育在CN教育面的特殊生的資源投注接下來我要請教有關於才化法的影響特別是對於偏鄉教育的部分\n213112\t239885\t首先呢因為我想大家今天早上也非常多國民黨的委員都非常關心到底這個才化法對於地方的影響到底是什麼那我自己這段時間也遇到了許多的家長團體都在問我說那個午餐費為什麼中央不出啦等等的還有這個偏鄉教育還有那個教師的一些薪資補貼那會不會出會不會有影響等等的所以我也想就這一題來跟部長做一個請教就是說\n241025\t264830\t我知道以營養務生來說其實這個在台北跟新北都說他們會去編列了但是呢台中盧市長還是說他不會去編列他是說他財政充裕一定願意做那我想問一下我們是不是已經跟地方都已經溝通過了呢這點我想要再次確認一下是不是已經都確認過了\n268303\t297146\t是 跟委員報告我想說這個財化法有關於一些跟地方之間的財源調配的事情包括在行政院或行政院主義總署從八月中的時候其實都已經有召開過四次的協調會議所以地方都已經溝通所以都已經清楚傳遞這個訊息了 對嗎對 地方政府應該都知道有哪一些的補助款可能中央已經沒有辦法再繼續負擔而必須要協調地方政府能夠幫忙分攤\n298544\t318210\t好喔 那我想就是說外面有傳報導也是說教育部的預算比跟今年度相比我們減少了908億元那教育部給我的是79億元那我想知道這個差別到底是在哪裡然後還有這個到底這個減少的地方到底是在哪些部分可不可以簡單做個說明\n321813\t341429\t是跟委員說明一下就是這裡面提到的減少到那個900億元他大概就是因為沒有算到就是行政院還有分配給交易部的一塊813億元他們沒有去算到那個部分就對了了解所以整體來說是79億元沒錯嘛對不對那79億元更是哪些項目呢簡單來說\n345990\t372408\t79億元的話裡面大概最大的項目就是也是針對地方政府的補助地方政府的補助有減少了160幾億元這是裡面最大的一個項目但是其實地方聽起來就是地方拿了蠻多錢走的嘛那我覺得現在應該要問的是說那地方拿了這些錢到底去做了什麼嘛對不對拿了這些錢因為據我所知台北跟新北都可以編為什麼台中不能編那據我所知呢好像現在台中\n373028\t391021\t現在已經在審相關的預算我說各縣市政府已經在審預算可是台中好像並沒有把這些新增的部分加進去我覺得最要去問的是那到底台中市你們要拿這些錢去做什麼為什麼要苦孩子那再來還有一個我覺得我也想跟部長請教就是說如果說今天\n393035\t404232\t我們先講到這個我們聽起來就是如果地方政府沒有把經費放在教育經費的話那受害的就是孩子我們有任何的手段可以阻止嗎\n407506\t422983\t跟我們報告確實當時因應財務法我們也跟地方縣市政府教育局做這樣的一個討論就是說當教育部原來在一般補助裡邊行政已經下去了等於\n423924\t443449\t這裡邊原來是包含我們原來政策的推動這個我們會告訴他哪些銀額對我知道但是他不做呢我們還有什麼手段可以來守護我們的孩子嗎跟地方縣市教育局局長提醒他們說這些錢本來行政就用一般補助下去了那這時候你\n445289\t464194\t聽起來好像就是勸要怎麼樣把這個經費能夠落實編在地方的教育事務上我想這個我們是也有意思的一個但是我聽起來我覺得好像是柔性的勸說那我提供一個想法給部長來做一個討論就是說特別我關心這個偏鄉學生的教育權\n465094\t488828\t因為115年我們有編列相關的教育經費像是偏鄉學校宿舍修繕甚至偏鄉教育的專業教師人力的補足這個在偏鄉條例實施之後都有專案的經費但是接下來從明年開始我們到底我們的中央補助的經費會不會因此而減少呢那我們114年補助的18億那明年度的偏鄉學校又該怎麼辦呢\n493223\t512888\t跟委員報告在偏鄉這一個部分基本上我們教育部還是會有一個比較大的來一個協助譬如說我最近到各偏鄉地區去走那我們也發現了要讓老師留下來就學生的老師的宿舍有一些年久失修沒錯那我們怎麼樣優先來補助對這一個來改善\n515769\t534963\t我想最近我不管到花蓮到屏東我們都發現這樣相同的問題包含台東我們都會優先來協助地方來中小學來做一些教室宿舍的改善但是聽起來說我們在偏鄉的補助上面還是會維持一定的比例維持一定的一個優先來做協助\n538345\t563064\t好 那部長我也想請教就是說如果說我們有沒有機會來推動一個修法就是地方教育經費最低比例來避免教育被犧牲讓這件事情來入法才能夠去確保我們的教育經費分到了地方之後不會受到影響這個部分部長是不是可以去做一個研議來思考一下\n565004\t591798\t委員報告教育這一個全國的教育的總預算它事實上教育經費編列管理辦法它本來就有一定的地方的部分也有嗎有個比例的規範嗎全國家地方它是有一個規範那當然我們目前也有一套的一個這一個中央編多少地方編多少的一套的計算方式但是我也必須要跟委員承認因為財務法以後這整個秩序\n592378\t606947\t亂掉了所以我們必須要重新建立一個規範看怎麼樣有一個更好的支撐全國教育政策的推動跟地方是不是應該要來重新的而且必須要讓它更明確來去確保\n610329\t639291\t請這一個我們這一個相關的委員會再研議這一個好那這部分我可以再跟我再跟那個部長在之後可能再進一步的討論好那最後給我一點時間就是有關於最近新制上路的這個教師升星條試駕啦那其實有一些家長就會擔心說啊這個到時候老師會不會一直請假啊然後孩子教學會不會有任何的影響啊不過其實我去跟一些校長在確認是說大家好像普遍來說就是覺得說這是一個新制啦新制我們就先上路那我想但是\n639691\t665745\t校長也有一些擔心就是未來上路有一些狀況有沒有一些檢討滾動的修正的一個方法或是一個會議來去確認說到時候有什麼問題的話大家可以再來做一些調整這樣子我們是不是有相關的滾動性會議的修正感謝委員的一個提醒本來身心調適下就是用來支撐老師但是這個制度剛開始我也相信我們老師他本身是專業\n667666\t682303\t對學生的一個照顧包括他的責任我相信他一定會有一個相對好的一個考量到個人的需求跟這個學童的一個照顧但是在未來如果有什麼樣的問題我當然我們也可以來做政策滾動式的一個\n682363\t709139\t我想我们就这个学期结束之后好不好我们来做一个检讨看有没有要再修正的地方那最后我也想要争取再给我30秒而已我只是想要争取我们现在公立幼儿园的教保员是不是也可以适用这样子的制度因为现在老师有可是教保员没有那一员两制两个世界我自己会认为说对于这个现场的教保员来说心情可能会不是那么舒适是不是有可能把这个公立教保员也纳入呢\n712210\t737057\t跟委員報告教保員的部分目前來講是適用勞基法我知道那這個部分我們再跟勞動部這邊因為當時在研議身心調適教的過程當中是有找勞動部來的那這個部分涉及到整個他們勞動部的一個政策這個我們再跟勞動部這邊講那我大概多久再來追你們相關的進度呢還是你們多久可以再給我們再給我們一個相關的說明\n739456\t745043\t應該一個月內應該可以好 謝謝你喔 謝謝好 謝謝張雅琳委員謝謝行政部\n","txt":"部長好我想跟部長先來討論有關於實驗教育的一個題目等我一下喔就是說呢我們這幾年從107年開始實驗教育的學生成長1.75%可是呢特殊教育的學生是成長153%你可以明顯地從這個圖表看到這個比例是非常非常劇烈的攀升\n那其實就代表是說實驗教育這麼多年來它其實承接了許多特殊需求的學生那為什麼呢主要是因為這個師生比比較低家長認為可能比較可以給予特殊需求的孩子比較好的照顧以及他們也認為教學彈性多元可能比較能夠反符合這個特殊需求學童的一個學習的需求這樣子那再來就是說\n他們也會覺得說相對的這個空間可能也都比較大可以包容他的孩子所以這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙自閉症學習障礙的孩子或者是隱性特殊需求的孩子都去了實驗教育那我想問一下就是說從部長您這樣看的話您自己會對於實驗教育是不是需要對於實驗教育需要更多的特教資源這一個態度上面你是認可的嗎\n是的 我想因為確實陳如瑋剛才所提的有一些家長因為實驗教育它的多樣性跟它的很多的課程它比較能夠考慮到個人的需求所以家長會希望當他的這個小孩子有需要有一些特別的一些幫助的時候部長我想問的是說您覺得我們是不是要給他更多的支持我想我們會因為接下來來講我們也會有一些額外的一些經費上的一些幫助\n那個部長我先跟你重回歷史一下複述一下歷史其實這個題目在去年六月就已經問過了因為呢我們承接了這麼多的孩子可是我們給的社交資源非常非常實驗教育的社交資源是非常非常不足的那其實已經一整年過去了我114年的預算提案又再度的講到這件事情那我想剛剛部長也提到說我們可以給予支持\n那我希望這個支持是更務實的支持也就是說我們今年我收到的預算回文就是說我們有邀請到跟地方來討論我們有跟相關團體討論那今天我們是不是可以來討論時程因為已經給了一年的時間我們可不可以在年底前年底前提出實驗教育中特殊學生的特教需求我們來編列經費支持我們現在每個學生已經有補助1.2萬\n現在每個學生已經有編列所以是說明年就會開始執行嗎?14學年 現在就在執行了會後我們把資料給委員我們有兩件事情在做 第一個但是之前是講的是低收入跟中低收入戶啊特殊需求的學生那個時候4月的時候\n那實際上在8月1號以後就執行了那麼第二點地方政府我們還外加10萬元去處理這些特教行政實驗教育的部分這個學年度這個學年度已經開始了做了兩項新增的工作會後我們整理給委員\n好 謝謝 也非常謝謝教育部對於特殊教育在CN教育面的特殊生的資源投注接下來我要請教有關於才化法的影響特別是對於偏鄉教育的部分\n首先呢因為我想大家今天早上也非常多國民黨的委員都非常關心到底這個才化法對於地方的影響到底是什麼那我自己這段時間也遇到了許多的家長團體都在問我說那個午餐費為什麼中央不出啦等等的還有這個偏鄉教育還有那個教師的一些薪資補貼那會不會出會不會有影響等等的所以我也想就這一題來跟部長做一個請教就是說\n我知道以營養務生來說其實這個在台北跟新北都說他們會去編列了但是呢台中盧市長還是說他不會去編列他是說他財政充裕一定願意做那我想問一下我們是不是已經跟地方都已經溝通過了呢這點我想要再次確認一下是不是已經都確認過了\n是 跟委員報告我想說這個財化法有關於一些跟地方之間的財源調配的事情包括在行政院或行政院主義總署從八月中的時候其實都已經有召開過四次的協調會議所以地方都已經溝通所以都已經清楚傳遞這個訊息了 對嗎對 地方政府應該都知道有哪一些的補助款可能中央已經沒有辦法再繼續負擔而必須要協調地方政府能夠幫忙分攤\n好喔 那我想就是說外面有傳報導也是說教育部的預算比跟今年度相比我們減少了908億元那教育部給我的是79億元那我想知道這個差別到底是在哪裡然後還有這個到底這個減少的地方到底是在哪些部分可不可以簡單做個說明\n是跟委員說明一下就是這裡面提到的減少到那個900億元他大概就是因為沒有算到就是行政院還有分配給交易部的一塊813億元他們沒有去算到那個部分就對了了解所以整體來說是79億元沒錯嘛對不對那79億元更是哪些項目呢簡單來說\n79億元的話裡面大概最大的項目就是也是針對地方政府的補助地方政府的補助有減少了160幾億元這是裡面最大的一個項目但是其實地方聽起來就是地方拿了蠻多錢走的嘛那我覺得現在應該要問的是說那地方拿了這些錢到底去做了什麼嘛對不對拿了這些錢因為據我所知台北跟新北都可以編為什麼台中不能編那據我所知呢好像現在台中\n現在已經在審相關的預算我說各縣市政府已經在審預算可是台中好像並沒有把這些新增的部分加進去我覺得最要去問的是那到底台中市你們要拿這些錢去做什麼為什麼要苦孩子那再來還有一個我覺得我也想跟部長請教就是說如果說今天\n我們先講到這個我們聽起來就是如果地方政府沒有把經費放在教育經費的話那受害的就是孩子我們有任何的手段可以阻止嗎\n跟我們報告確實當時因應財務法我們也跟地方縣市政府教育局做這樣的一個討論就是說當教育部原來在一般補助裡邊行政已經下去了等於\n這裡邊原來是包含我們原來政策的推動這個我們會告訴他哪些銀額對我知道但是他不做呢我們還有什麼手段可以來守護我們的孩子嗎跟地方縣市教育局局長提醒他們說這些錢本來行政就用一般補助下去了那這時候你\n聽起來好像就是勸要怎麼樣把這個經費能夠落實編在地方的教育事務上我想這個我們是也有意思的一個但是我聽起來我覺得好像是柔性的勸說那我提供一個想法給部長來做一個討論就是說特別我關心這個偏鄉學生的教育權\n因為115年我們有編列相關的教育經費像是偏鄉學校宿舍修繕甚至偏鄉教育的專業教師人力的補足這個在偏鄉條例實施之後都有專案的經費但是接下來從明年開始我們到底我們的中央補助的經費會不會因此而減少呢那我們114年補助的18億那明年度的偏鄉學校又該怎麼辦呢\n跟委員報告在偏鄉這一個部分基本上我們教育部還是會有一個比較大的來一個協助譬如說我最近到各偏鄉地區去走那我們也發現了要讓老師留下來就學生的老師的宿舍有一些年久失修沒錯那我們怎麼樣優先來補助對這一個來改善\n我想最近我不管到花蓮到屏東我們都發現這樣相同的問題包含台東我們都會優先來協助地方來中小學來做一些教室宿舍的改善但是聽起來說我們在偏鄉的補助上面還是會維持一定的比例維持一定的一個優先來做協助\n好 那部長我也想請教就是說如果說我們有沒有機會來推動一個修法就是地方教育經費最低比例來避免教育被犧牲讓這件事情來入法才能夠去確保我們的教育經費分到了地方之後不會受到影響這個部分部長是不是可以去做一個研議來思考一下\n委員報告教育這一個全國的教育的總預算它事實上教育經費編列管理辦法它本來就有一定的地方的部分也有嗎有個比例的規範嗎全國家地方它是有一個規範那當然我們目前也有一套的一個這一個中央編多少地方編多少的一套的計算方式但是我也必須要跟委員承認因為財務法以後這整個秩序\n亂掉了所以我們必須要重新建立一個規範看怎麼樣有一個更好的支撐全國教育政策的推動跟地方是不是應該要來重新的而且必須要讓它更明確來去確保\n請這一個我們這一個相關的委員會再研議這一個好那這部分我可以再跟我再跟那個部長在之後可能再進一步的討論好那最後給我一點時間就是有關於最近新制上路的這個教師升星條試駕啦那其實有一些家長就會擔心說啊這個到時候老師會不會一直請假啊然後孩子教學會不會有任何的影響啊不過其實我去跟一些校長在確認是說大家好像普遍來說就是覺得說這是一個新制啦新制我們就先上路那我想但是\n校長也有一些擔心就是未來上路有一些狀況有沒有一些檢討滾動的修正的一個方法或是一個會議來去確認說到時候有什麼問題的話大家可以再來做一些調整這樣子我們是不是有相關的滾動性會議的修正感謝委員的一個提醒本來身心調適下就是用來支撐老師但是這個制度剛開始我也相信我們老師他本身是專業\n對學生的一個照顧包括他的責任我相信他一定會有一個相對好的一個考量到個人的需求跟這個學童的一個照顧但是在未來如果有什麼樣的問題我當然我們也可以來做政策滾動式的一個\n我想我们就这个学期结束之后好不好我们来做一个检讨看有没有要再修正的地方那最后我也想要争取再给我30秒而已我只是想要争取我们现在公立幼儿园的教保员是不是也可以适用这样子的制度因为现在老师有可是教保员没有那一员两制两个世界我自己会认为说对于这个现场的教保员来说心情可能会不是那么舒适是不是有可能把这个公立教保员也纳入呢\n跟委員報告教保員的部分目前來講是適用勞基法我知道那這個部分我們再跟勞動部這邊因為當時在研議身心調適教的過程當中是有找勞動部來的那這個部分涉及到整個他們勞動部的一個政策這個我們再跟勞動部這邊講那我大概多久再來追你們相關的進度呢還是你們多久可以再給我們再給我們一個相關的說明\n應該一個月內應該可以好 謝謝你喔 謝謝好 謝謝張雅琳委員謝謝行政部\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.349 --> 00:24.414\n部長好我想跟部長先來討論有關於實驗教育的一個題目等我一下喔就是說呢我們這幾年從107年開始實驗教育的學生成長1.75%可是呢特殊教育的學生是成長153%你可以明顯地從這個圖表看到這個比例是非常非常劇烈的攀升\n\n00:25.214 --> 00:50.557\n那其實就代表是說實驗教育這麼多年來它其實承接了許多特殊需求的學生那為什麼呢主要是因為這個師生比比較低家長認為可能比較可以給予特殊需求的孩子比較好的照顧以及他們也認為教學彈性多元可能比較能夠反符合這個特殊需求學童的一個學習的需求這樣子那再來就是說\n\n00:51.758 --> 01:18.769\n他們也會覺得說相對的這個空間可能也都比較大可以包容他的孩子所以這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙自閉症學習障礙的孩子或者是隱性特殊需求的孩子都去了實驗教育那我想問一下就是說從部長您這樣看的話您自己會對於實驗教育是不是需要對於實驗教育需要更多的特教資源這一個態度上面你是認可的嗎\n\n01:19.875 --> 01:46.325\n是的我想因為確實陳如瑋剛才所提的有一些家長因為實驗教育它的多樣性跟它的很多的課程它比較能夠考慮到個人的需求所以家長會希望當他的這個小孩子有需要有一些特別的一些幫助的時候部長我想問的是說您覺得我們是不是要給他更多的支持我想我們會因為接下來來講我們也會有一些額外的一些經費上的一些幫助\n\n01:46.665 --> 02:07.886\n那個部長我先跟你重回歷史一下複述一下歷史其實這個題目在去年六月就已經問過了因為呢我們承接了這麼多的孩子可是我們給的社交資源非常非常實驗教育的社交資源是非常非常不足的那其實已經一整年過去了我114年的預算提案又再度的講到這件事情那我想剛剛部長也提到說我們可以給予支持\n\n02:08.566 --> 02:35.147\n那我希望這個支持是更務實的支持也就是說我們今年我收到的預算回文就是說我們有邀請到跟地方來討論我們有跟相關團體討論那今天我們是不是可以來討論時程因為已經給了一年的時間我們可不可以在年底前年底前提出實驗教育中特殊學生的特教需求我們來編列經費支持我們現在每個學生已經有補助1.2萬\n\n02:37.628 --> 02:56.233\n現在每個學生已經有編列所以是說明年就會開始執行嗎?14學年現在就在執行了會後我們把資料給委員我們有兩件事情在做第一個但是之前是講的是低收入跟中低收入戶啊特殊需求的學生那個時候4月的時候\n\n02:58.934 --> 03:15.436\n那實際上在8月1號以後就執行了那麼第二點地方政府我們還外加10萬元去處理這些特教行政實驗教育的部分這個學年度這個學年度已經開始了做了兩項新增的工作會後我們整理給委員\n\n03:16.297 --> 03:29.969\n好謝謝也非常謝謝教育部對於特殊教育在CN教育面的特殊生的資源投注接下來我要請教有關於才化法的影響特別是對於偏鄉教育的部分\n\n03:33.112 --> 03:59.885\n首先呢因為我想大家今天早上也非常多國民黨的委員都非常關心到底這個才化法對於地方的影響到底是什麼那我自己這段時間也遇到了許多的家長團體都在問我說那個午餐費為什麼中央不出啦等等的還有這個偏鄉教育還有那個教師的一些薪資補貼那會不會出會不會有影響等等的所以我也想就這一題來跟部長做一個請教就是說\n\n04:01.025 --> 04:24.830\n我知道以營養務生來說其實這個在台北跟新北都說他們會去編列了但是呢台中盧市長還是說他不會去編列他是說他財政充裕一定願意做那我想問一下我們是不是已經跟地方都已經溝通過了呢這點我想要再次確認一下是不是已經都確認過了\n\n04:28.303 --> 04:57.146\n是跟委員報告我想說這個財化法有關於一些跟地方之間的財源調配的事情包括在行政院或行政院主義總署從八月中的時候其實都已經有召開過四次的協調會議所以地方都已經溝通所以都已經清楚傳遞這個訊息了對嗎對地方政府應該都知道有哪一些的補助款可能中央已經沒有辦法再繼續負擔而必須要協調地方政府能夠幫忙分攤\n\n04:58.544 --> 05:18.210\n好喔那我想就是說外面有傳報導也是說教育部的預算比跟今年度相比我們減少了908億元那教育部給我的是79億元那我想知道這個差別到底是在哪裡然後還有這個到底這個減少的地方到底是在哪些部分可不可以簡單做個說明\n\n05:21.813 --> 05:41.429\n是跟委員說明一下就是這裡面提到的減少到那個900億元他大概就是因為沒有算到就是行政院還有分配給交易部的一塊813億元他們沒有去算到那個部分就對了了解所以整體來說是79億元沒錯嘛對不對那79億元更是哪些項目呢簡單來說\n\n05:45.990 --> 06:12.408\n79億元的話裡面大概最大的項目就是也是針對地方政府的補助地方政府的補助有減少了160幾億元這是裡面最大的一個項目但是其實地方聽起來就是地方拿了蠻多錢走的嘛那我覺得現在應該要問的是說那地方拿了這些錢到底去做了什麼嘛對不對拿了這些錢因為據我所知台北跟新北都可以編為什麼台中不能編那據我所知呢好像現在台中\n\n06:13.028 --> 06:31.021\n現在已經在審相關的預算我說各縣市政府已經在審預算可是台中好像並沒有把這些新增的部分加進去我覺得最要去問的是那到底台中市你們要拿這些錢去做什麼為什麼要苦孩子那再來還有一個我覺得我也想跟部長請教就是說如果說今天\n\n06:33.035 --> 06:44.232\n我們先講到這個我們聽起來就是如果地方政府沒有把經費放在教育經費的話那受害的就是孩子我們有任何的手段可以阻止嗎\n\n06:47.506 --> 07:02.983\n跟我們報告確實當時因應財務法我們也跟地方縣市政府教育局做這樣的一個討論就是說當教育部原來在一般補助裡邊行政已經下去了等於\n\n07:03.924 --> 07:23.449\n這裡邊原來是包含我們原來政策的推動這個我們會告訴他哪些銀額對我知道但是他不做呢我們還有什麼手段可以來守護我們的孩子嗎跟地方縣市教育局局長提醒他們說這些錢本來行政就用一般補助下去了那這時候你\n\n07:25.289 --> 07:44.194\n聽起來好像就是勸要怎麼樣把這個經費能夠落實編在地方的教育事務上我想這個我們是也有意思的一個但是我聽起來我覺得好像是柔性的勸說那我提供一個想法給部長來做一個討論就是說特別我關心這個偏鄉學生的教育權\n\n07:45.094 --> 08:08.828\n因為115年我們有編列相關的教育經費像是偏鄉學校宿舍修繕甚至偏鄉教育的專業教師人力的補足這個在偏鄉條例實施之後都有專案的經費但是接下來從明年開始我們到底我們的中央補助的經費會不會因此而減少呢那我們114年補助的18億那明年度的偏鄉學校又該怎麼辦呢\n\n08:13.223 --> 08:32.888\n跟委員報告在偏鄉這一個部分基本上我們教育部還是會有一個比較大的來一個協助譬如說我最近到各偏鄉地區去走那我們也發現了要讓老師留下來就學生的老師的宿舍有一些年久失修沒錯那我們怎麼樣優先來補助對這一個來改善\n\n08:35.769 --> 08:54.963\n我想最近我不管到花蓮到屏東我們都發現這樣相同的問題包含台東我們都會優先來協助地方來中小學來做一些教室宿舍的改善但是聽起來說我們在偏鄉的補助上面還是會維持一定的比例維持一定的一個優先來做協助\n\n08:58.345 --> 09:23.064\n好那部長我也想請教就是說如果說我們有沒有機會來推動一個修法就是地方教育經費最低比例來避免教育被犧牲讓這件事情來入法才能夠去確保我們的教育經費分到了地方之後不會受到影響這個部分部長是不是可以去做一個研議來思考一下\n\n09:25.004 --> 09:51.798\n委員報告教育這一個全國的教育的總預算它事實上教育經費編列管理辦法它本來就有一定的地方的部分也有嗎有個比例的規範嗎全國家地方它是有一個規範那當然我們目前也有一套的一個這一個中央編多少地方編多少的一套的計算方式但是我也必須要跟委員承認因為財務法以後這整個秩序\n\n09:52.378 --> 10:06.947\n亂掉了所以我們必須要重新建立一個規範看怎麼樣有一個更好的支撐全國教育政策的推動跟地方是不是應該要來重新的而且必須要讓它更明確來去確保\n\n10:10.329 --> 10:39.291\n請這一個我們這一個相關的委員會再研議這一個好那這部分我可以再跟我再跟那個部長在之後可能再進一步的討論好那最後給我一點時間就是有關於最近新制上路的這個教師升星條試駕啦那其實有一些家長就會擔心說啊這個到時候老師會不會一直請假啊然後孩子教學會不會有任何的影響啊不過其實我去跟一些校長在確認是說大家好像普遍來說就是覺得說這是一個新制啦新制我們就先上路那我想但是\n\n10:39.691 --> 11:05.745\n校長也有一些擔心就是未來上路有一些狀況有沒有一些檢討滾動的修正的一個方法或是一個會議來去確認說到時候有什麼問題的話大家可以再來做一些調整這樣子我們是不是有相關的滾動性會議的修正感謝委員的一個提醒本來身心調適下就是用來支撐老師但是這個制度剛開始我也相信我們老師他本身是專業\n\n11:07.666 --> 11:22.303\n對學生的一個照顧包括他的責任我相信他一定會有一個相對好的一個考量到個人的需求跟這個學童的一個照顧但是在未來如果有什麼樣的問題我當然我們也可以來做政策滾動式的一個\n\n11:22.363 --> 11:49.139\n我想我们就这个学期结束之后好不好我们来做一个检讨看有没有要再修正的地方那最后我也想要争取再给我30秒而已我只是想要争取我们现在公立幼儿园的教保员是不是也可以适用这样子的制度因为现在老师有可是教保员没有那一员两制两个世界我自己会认为说对于这个现场的教保员来说心情可能会不是那么舒适是不是有可能把这个公立教保员也纳入呢\n\n11:52.210 --> 12:17.057\n跟委員報告教保員的部分目前來講是適用勞基法我知道那這個部分我們再跟勞動部這邊因為當時在研議身心調適教的過程當中是有找勞動部來的那這個部分涉及到整個他們勞動部的一個政策這個我們再跟勞動部這邊講那我大概多久再來追你們相關的進度呢還是你們多久可以再給我們再給我們一個相關的說明\n\n12:19.456 --> 12:25.043\n應該一個月內應該可以好謝謝你喔謝謝好謝謝張雅琳委員謝謝行政部\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.349,"end":24.414,"text":"部長好我想跟部長先來討論有關於實驗教育的一個題目等我一下喔就是說呢我們這幾年從107年開始實驗教育的學生成長1.75%可是呢特殊教育的學生是成長153%你可以明顯地從這個圖表看到這個比例是非常非常劇烈的攀升"},{"start":25.214,"end":50.557,"text":"那其實就代表是說實驗教育這麼多年來它其實承接了許多特殊需求的學生那為什麼呢主要是因為這個師生比比較低家長認為可能比較可以給予特殊需求的孩子比較好的照顧以及他們也認為教學彈性多元可能比較能夠反符合這個特殊需求學童的一個學習的需求這樣子那再來就是說"},{"start":51.758,"end":78.769,"text":"他們也會覺得說相對的這個空間可能也都比較大可以包容他的孩子所以這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙自閉症學習障礙的孩子或者是隱性特殊需求的孩子都去了實驗教育那我想問一下就是說從部長您這樣看的話您自己會對於實驗教育是不是需要對於實驗教育需要更多的特教資源這一個態度上面你是認可的嗎"},{"start":79.875,"end":106.325,"text":"是的 我想因為確實陳如瑋剛才所提的有一些家長因為實驗教育它的多樣性跟它的很多的課程它比較能夠考慮到個人的需求所以家長會希望當他的這個小孩子有需要有一些特別的一些幫助的時候部長我想問的是說您覺得我們是不是要給他更多的支持我想我們會因為接下來來講我們也會有一些額外的一些經費上的一些幫助"},{"start":106.665,"end":127.886,"text":"那個部長我先跟你重回歷史一下複述一下歷史其實這個題目在去年六月就已經問過了因為呢我們承接了這麼多的孩子可是我們給的社交資源非常非常實驗教育的社交資源是非常非常不足的那其實已經一整年過去了我114年的預算提案又再度的講到這件事情那我想剛剛部長也提到說我們可以給予支持"},{"start":128.566,"end":155.147,"text":"那我希望這個支持是更務實的支持也就是說我們今年我收到的預算回文就是說我們有邀請到跟地方來討論我們有跟相關團體討論那今天我們是不是可以來討論時程因為已經給了一年的時間我們可不可以在年底前年底前提出實驗教育中特殊學生的特教需求我們來編列經費支持我們現在每個學生已經有補助1.2萬"},{"start":157.628,"end":176.233,"text":"現在每個學生已經有編列所以是說明年就會開始執行嗎?14學年 現在就在執行了會後我們把資料給委員我們有兩件事情在做 第一個但是之前是講的是低收入跟中低收入戶啊特殊需求的學生那個時候4月的時候"},{"start":178.934,"end":195.436,"text":"那實際上在8月1號以後就執行了那麼第二點地方政府我們還外加10萬元去處理這些特教行政實驗教育的部分這個學年度這個學年度已經開始了做了兩項新增的工作會後我們整理給委員"},{"start":196.297,"end":209.969,"text":"好 謝謝 也非常謝謝教育部對於特殊教育在CN教育面的特殊生的資源投注接下來我要請教有關於才化法的影響特別是對於偏鄉教育的部分"},{"start":213.112,"end":239.885,"text":"首先呢因為我想大家今天早上也非常多國民黨的委員都非常關心到底這個才化法對於地方的影響到底是什麼那我自己這段時間也遇到了許多的家長團體都在問我說那個午餐費為什麼中央不出啦等等的還有這個偏鄉教育還有那個教師的一些薪資補貼那會不會出會不會有影響等等的所以我也想就這一題來跟部長做一個請教就是說"},{"start":241.025,"end":264.83,"text":"我知道以營養務生來說其實這個在台北跟新北都說他們會去編列了但是呢台中盧市長還是說他不會去編列他是說他財政充裕一定願意做那我想問一下我們是不是已經跟地方都已經溝通過了呢這點我想要再次確認一下是不是已經都確認過了"},{"start":268.303,"end":297.146,"text":"是 跟委員報告我想說這個財化法有關於一些跟地方之間的財源調配的事情包括在行政院或行政院主義總署從八月中的時候其實都已經有召開過四次的協調會議所以地方都已經溝通所以都已經清楚傳遞這個訊息了 對嗎對 地方政府應該都知道有哪一些的補助款可能中央已經沒有辦法再繼續負擔而必須要協調地方政府能夠幫忙分攤"},{"start":298.544,"end":318.21,"text":"好喔 那我想就是說外面有傳報導也是說教育部的預算比跟今年度相比我們減少了908億元那教育部給我的是79億元那我想知道這個差別到底是在哪裡然後還有這個到底這個減少的地方到底是在哪些部分可不可以簡單做個說明"},{"start":321.813,"end":341.429,"text":"是跟委員說明一下就是這裡面提到的減少到那個900億元他大概就是因為沒有算到就是行政院還有分配給交易部的一塊813億元他們沒有去算到那個部分就對了了解所以整體來說是79億元沒錯嘛對不對那79億元更是哪些項目呢簡單來說"},{"start":345.99,"end":372.408,"text":"79億元的話裡面大概最大的項目就是也是針對地方政府的補助地方政府的補助有減少了160幾億元這是裡面最大的一個項目但是其實地方聽起來就是地方拿了蠻多錢走的嘛那我覺得現在應該要問的是說那地方拿了這些錢到底去做了什麼嘛對不對拿了這些錢因為據我所知台北跟新北都可以編為什麼台中不能編那據我所知呢好像現在台中"},{"start":373.028,"end":391.021,"text":"現在已經在審相關的預算我說各縣市政府已經在審預算可是台中好像並沒有把這些新增的部分加進去我覺得最要去問的是那到底台中市你們要拿這些錢去做什麼為什麼要苦孩子那再來還有一個我覺得我也想跟部長請教就是說如果說今天"},{"start":393.035,"end":404.232,"text":"我們先講到這個我們聽起來就是如果地方政府沒有把經費放在教育經費的話那受害的就是孩子我們有任何的手段可以阻止嗎"},{"start":407.506,"end":422.983,"text":"跟我們報告確實當時因應財務法我們也跟地方縣市政府教育局做這樣的一個討論就是說當教育部原來在一般補助裡邊行政已經下去了等於"},{"start":423.924,"end":443.449,"text":"這裡邊原來是包含我們原來政策的推動這個我們會告訴他哪些銀額對我知道但是他不做呢我們還有什麼手段可以來守護我們的孩子嗎跟地方縣市教育局局長提醒他們說這些錢本來行政就用一般補助下去了那這時候你"},{"start":445.289,"end":464.194,"text":"聽起來好像就是勸要怎麼樣把這個經費能夠落實編在地方的教育事務上我想這個我們是也有意思的一個但是我聽起來我覺得好像是柔性的勸說那我提供一個想法給部長來做一個討論就是說特別我關心這個偏鄉學生的教育權"},{"start":465.094,"end":488.828,"text":"因為115年我們有編列相關的教育經費像是偏鄉學校宿舍修繕甚至偏鄉教育的專業教師人力的補足這個在偏鄉條例實施之後都有專案的經費但是接下來從明年開始我們到底我們的中央補助的經費會不會因此而減少呢那我們114年補助的18億那明年度的偏鄉學校又該怎麼辦呢"},{"start":493.223,"end":512.888,"text":"跟委員報告在偏鄉這一個部分基本上我們教育部還是會有一個比較大的來一個協助譬如說我最近到各偏鄉地區去走那我們也發現了要讓老師留下來就學生的老師的宿舍有一些年久失修沒錯那我們怎麼樣優先來補助對這一個來改善"},{"start":515.769,"end":534.963,"text":"我想最近我不管到花蓮到屏東我們都發現這樣相同的問題包含台東我們都會優先來協助地方來中小學來做一些教室宿舍的改善但是聽起來說我們在偏鄉的補助上面還是會維持一定的比例維持一定的一個優先來做協助"},{"start":538.345,"end":563.064,"text":"好 那部長我也想請教就是說如果說我們有沒有機會來推動一個修法就是地方教育經費最低比例來避免教育被犧牲讓這件事情來入法才能夠去確保我們的教育經費分到了地方之後不會受到影響這個部分部長是不是可以去做一個研議來思考一下"},{"start":565.004,"end":591.798,"text":"委員報告教育這一個全國的教育的總預算它事實上教育經費編列管理辦法它本來就有一定的地方的部分也有嗎有個比例的規範嗎全國家地方它是有一個規範那當然我們目前也有一套的一個這一個中央編多少地方編多少的一套的計算方式但是我也必須要跟委員承認因為財務法以後這整個秩序"},{"start":592.378,"end":606.947,"text":"亂掉了所以我們必須要重新建立一個規範看怎麼樣有一個更好的支撐全國教育政策的推動跟地方是不是應該要來重新的而且必須要讓它更明確來去確保"},{"start":610.329,"end":639.291,"text":"請這一個我們這一個相關的委員會再研議這一個好那這部分我可以再跟我再跟那個部長在之後可能再進一步的討論好那最後給我一點時間就是有關於最近新制上路的這個教師升星條試駕啦那其實有一些家長就會擔心說啊這個到時候老師會不會一直請假啊然後孩子教學會不會有任何的影響啊不過其實我去跟一些校長在確認是說大家好像普遍來說就是覺得說這是一個新制啦新制我們就先上路那我想但是"},{"start":639.691,"end":665.745,"text":"校長也有一些擔心就是未來上路有一些狀況有沒有一些檢討滾動的修正的一個方法或是一個會議來去確認說到時候有什麼問題的話大家可以再來做一些調整這樣子我們是不是有相關的滾動性會議的修正感謝委員的一個提醒本來身心調適下就是用來支撐老師但是這個制度剛開始我也相信我們老師他本身是專業"},{"start":667.666,"end":682.303,"text":"對學生的一個照顧包括他的責任我相信他一定會有一個相對好的一個考量到個人的需求跟這個學童的一個照顧但是在未來如果有什麼樣的問題我當然我們也可以來做政策滾動式的一個"},{"start":682.363,"end":709.139,"text":"我想我们就这个学期结束之后好不好我们来做一个检讨看有没有要再修正的地方那最后我也想要争取再给我30秒而已我只是想要争取我们现在公立幼儿园的教保员是不是也可以适用这样子的制度因为现在老师有可是教保员没有那一员两制两个世界我自己会认为说对于这个现场的教保员来说心情可能会不是那么舒适是不是有可能把这个公立教保员也纳入呢"},{"start":712.21,"end":737.057,"text":"跟委員報告教保員的部分目前來講是適用勞基法我知道那這個部分我們再跟勞動部這邊因為當時在研議身心調適教的過程當中是有找勞動部來的那這個部分涉及到整個他們勞動部的一個政策這個我們再跟勞動部這邊講那我大概多久再來追你們相關的進度呢還是你們多久可以再給我們再給我們一個相關的說明"},{"start":739.456,"end":745.043,"text":"應該一個月內應該可以好 謝謝你喔 謝謝好 謝謝張雅琳委員謝謝行政部"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1103,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（13時36分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：部長好。我想與部長討論有關於實驗教育的題目，從107年開始，實驗教育的學生成長1.75%，但是特殊教育的學生卻成長了153%，你可以從這個圖表明顯看出這個比例是非常劇烈的攀升，代表著實驗教育這麼多年來其實承接了許多特殊需求的學生，為什麼呢？主要是因為師生比比較低，家長認為可以給予特殊需求的孩子比較好的照顧，而且他們也認為教學彈性多元，可能比較能夠符合特殊學童的學習需求。再者，他們也會覺得空間相對可能比較大，可以包容他的孩子。因此，這幾年其實有越來越多情緒障礙、自閉症、學習障礙的孩子或隱性特殊需求的孩子都去了實驗教育。我想問一下，部長對於實驗教育需要更多特教資源的這個態度是認可的嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：是，確實誠如委員剛才所言，有一些家長因為實驗教育的多樣性及許多課程比較能夠考慮到個人的需求，所以當孩子需要一些特別輔助時，家長會希望……"],["張委員雅琳：部長，我想問你是否認為我們需要給他們更多的支持？"],["鄭部長英耀：我想我們會有一些額外的經費補助。"],["張委員雅琳：部長，我先讓你回顧一下歷史，其實這個題目在去年6月就已經問過了。雖然我們承接了這麼多的孩子，但是我們給的實驗教育特教資源非常非常不足，然而一整年過去了，我在114年的預算提案又再度講到這件事情，剛剛部長也提到我們可以給予支持，所以我希望這個支持是更務實的支持。今年我收到了預算回文，提到你們邀請了地方共同討論、邀請了相關團體共同討論，那麼今天我們是否可以具體討論時程？因為已經改了一年的時間，我們可不可以在年底前提出實驗教育中特殊學生的特教需求，並且編列經費給予支持？"],["鄭部長英耀：現在每個學生已經有補助1.2萬元。"],["張委員雅琳：現在每個學生已經有編列，所以是明年就會開始執行嗎？"],["彭署長富源：114學年，現在就在執行了。"],["張委員雅琳：現在就在執行了？"],["彭署長富源：我們會後再將資料提供給委員，現在有兩件事情在做，第一個是委員……"],["張委員雅琳：但之前講的是低收入戶及中低收入戶啊！"],["彭署長富源：特殊需求也有。"],["張委員雅琳：特殊需求的學生？"],["彭署長富源：對，那是在4月的時候，實際上在8月1日之後就執行了。第二點，地方政府我們還外加10萬元去處理這些特教行政，實驗教育的部分。所以從……"],["張委員雅琳：這個學年度已經開始了？"],["彭署長富源：對，這個學年度做了兩項新增工作，會後整理給委員，謝謝委員提醒。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝，也非常謝謝教育部對於實驗教育內特殊生的資源投注。","接下來我要請教有關於財劃法的影響，特別是對於偏鄉教育的部分。首先，今天早上非常多國民黨委員也都很關心到底財劃法對於地方的影響是什麼，我自己這段時間也遇到許多家長團體都問我午餐費為什麼中央不出等等的，還有教師的薪資補貼會不會有影響等等的，所以我也想就這一題來跟部長做個請教。以營養午餐來說，我知道臺北跟新北都說他們會去編列，但是臺中盧市長還是說他不會編列，他是說「只要財政充裕一定願意做」，所以我想問一下，我們是不是跟地方都已經溝通過了呢？這一點我想要再次確認一下，是不是已經都確認過了？"],["劉處長嘉偉：跟委員報告，財劃法中有關於一些跟地方之間財源調配的事情，包括行政院或行政院主計總處從8月中的時候就已經有召開過四次的協調會議，包括找地方各縣市……"],["張委員雅琳：所以跟地方都已經溝通過，也都已經清楚傳遞這個訊息了，對嗎？"],["劉處長嘉偉：對，地方政府應該都知道有哪一些補助款可能中央已經沒有辦法再繼續負擔，必須要協調地方政府能夠幫忙分攤。"],["張委員雅琳：好喔，因為外面有傳言，報導也有提到，教育部的預算跟今年度相比減少了908億元，教育部給我的是79億元，我想知道這個差別到底是在哪裡？還有減少的地方到底是在哪些部分？可不可以簡單做個說明。"],["劉處長嘉偉：跟委員說明一下，這裡面提到減少900億元，大概就是因為沒有算到行政院還有分配給教育部813億元的一般性補助款。"],["張委員雅琳：喔，他們沒有算到那個部分就對了？"],["劉處長嘉偉：對，如果把這個加進去的話……"],["張委員雅琳：了解。所以整體來說是79億元沒錯嘛，對不對？"],["劉處長嘉偉：是的。"],["張委員雅琳：這79億元是哪些項目呢？簡單的說就好。"],["劉處長嘉偉：79億元裡面最大的項目大概也是針對地方政府的補助，地方政府的補助有減少了一百六十幾億元，這是裡面最大的一個項目。"],["張委員雅琳：好，了解，但是聽起來就是地方拿了滿多錢走的嘛，我覺得現在應該要問的是地方拿了這些錢到底去做了什麼嘛，對不對？拿到了這些錢之後，臺北跟新北都可以編，為什麼臺中不能編？據我所知，臺中現在已經在審相關的預算，各縣市政府已經在審預算了，可是臺中好像並沒有把這些新增部分加進去，我覺得最要去問的是到底臺中市要拿這些錢去做什麼？為什麼要苦孩子？","再來還有一個問題我也想跟部長請教，因為這樣聽起來，如果地方政府沒有把經費放在教育經費的話，受害的就是孩子，我們有任何的手段可以阻止嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實，當時因應財劃法，我們也跟地方縣市政府教育局處做了這樣一個討論，就是教育部原來的一般補助部分，就是行政院已經撥下去的，這裡面原來是包含我們的政策推動，我們會告訴他哪些員額、哪些經費是……"],["張委員雅琳：對，我知道，但是他不做呢？我們還有什麼手段可以來守護我們的孩子嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個我們可以提醒地方縣市教育局處首長，跟他們說這些錢本來行政院就用一般補助下去了，這時候你在年度預算……"],["張委員雅琳：聽起來好像就是勸……"],["鄭部長英耀：要怎麼樣把這個經費能夠落實的編在地方教育事務上，這個我們也有一致的跟他們……"],["張委員雅琳：了解，但是我聽起來好像是柔性的勸說，我提供一個想法來跟部長做一個討論，就是關於我特別關心的偏鄉學生的教育權。因為115年我們有編列相關的教育經費，像是偏鄉學校宿舍修繕，甚至偏鄉教育專業教師人力的補足，這個在偏鄉條例實施之後都有專案的經費，但是接下來從明年開始，到底我們中央補助的經費會不會因此而減少呢？我們114年補助18億，那明年度的偏鄉學校又該怎麼辦呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，在偏鄉的部分，基本上，我們教育部還是會有比較大的協助，譬如說，我最近到各偏鄉地區去走，我們也發現了要讓老師留下來，老師的宿舍有一些年久失修……"],["張委員雅琳：沒錯、沒錯。"],["鄭部長英耀：我們怎麼樣優先補助來做改善，最近我不管到花蓮、屏東等，都發現這樣相同的問題，包含臺東，我們會優先協助地方中小學來做一些教師宿舍的改善，這個我想我們教育部會……"],["張委員雅琳：了解，所以聽起來是說，我們在偏鄉的補助上面還是會維持一定的比例，對嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：對，會維持一定的這個……會優先來做協助。"],["張委員雅琳：好，部長，我想要再請教的是我們有沒有機會來推動一個修法，就是規定地方教育經費最低比例，以避免教育被犧牲，讓這件事情來入法才能夠確保我們的教育經費分到地方之後不會受到影響，這個部分部長是不是可以去做個研議並思考一下？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，有關全國的教育總預算，事實上在教育經費編列與管理法中本來就有一定的規範……"],["張委員雅琳：地方的部分也有嗎？有比例的規範嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：全國加地方是有一個規範，當然，我們目前也有一套中央編多少、地方編多少的計算方式，但是我也必須要跟委員承認，在財劃法修正以後，這整個秩序亂掉了……"],["張委員雅琳：是，沒錯！"],["鄭部長英耀：所以我們必須要重新建立一個規範，看怎麼樣能有一個更好的支撐來做全國教育政策的推動跟地方……"],["張委員雅琳：對，就是因為財劃法的關係嘛，所以我們才會覺得是不是應該要重新訂定，而且必須要讓它更明確，以此來做確保。"],["鄭部長英耀：是，我們自己也請相關的委員會在研議這個部分。"],["張委員雅琳：好，這個部分我之後再跟部長做進一步的討論。","最後給我一點時間，就是有關於最近新制上路的教師身心調適假，其實有一些家長就會擔心到時候老師會不會一直請假，對孩子的教學會不會有任何的影響，不過我去跟一些校長確認過，大家好像普遍覺得這是一個新制，新制就先上路，但是校長們也有一些擔心，就是未來新制上路後，如果有一些狀況的時候，有沒有檢討滾動修正的方法或是會議，去確認到時候有什麼問題時大家可以再來做一些調整，我們是不是有相關滾動性會議的修正？"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員的一個提醒，本來身心調適假就是用來支撐老師的，但是制度剛開始嘛，我也相信我們老師本身是專業的，對於學生的照顧，包括他的責任，我相信他一定會有一個相對好的，會考量到個人需求跟對學童的照顧。但是在未來如果有什麼樣的問題，當然我們也可以來做政策滾動式的修正。"],["張委員雅琳：我想就這個學期結束之後，好不好？我們來做一個檢討，看有沒有要再修正的地方。","最後請再給我30秒，我只是想要爭取現在公立幼兒園的教保員是不是也可以適用這樣的制度，因為現在老師有，可是教保員沒有，一園兩制、兩個世界，我自己會認為對於現場的教保員來說，心情可能不是那麼舒適啦，是不是有可能把公立教保員也納入呢？"],["林處長建璋：跟委員報告，教保員的部分，目前來講是適用勞基法……"],["張委員雅琳：我知道。"],["林處長建璋：這個部分，我們再跟勞動部做溝通，因為當時在研議身心調適假的過程當中是有找勞動部來的，但這個部分涉及到他們勞動部的政策，這個我們再跟勞動部去做溝通。"],["張委員雅琳：我大概多久再追你們相關的進度呢？還是你們多久可以再給我們一個相關的說明？"],["林處長建璋：一個月內應該可以。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝你，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝張雅琳委員，謝謝行政官員，請回座。","現在請林月琴委員質詢，時間4分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-22-3","speakers":["劉書彬","柯志恩","吳沛憶","范雲","林沛祥","葛如鈞","葉元之","羅廷瑋","萬美玲","郭昱晴","謝龍介","陳秀寳","陳瑩","林宜瑾","賴惠員","徐欣瑩","陳培瑜","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","徐富癸","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","張雅琳","林月琴","洪孟楷","林德福","高金素梅","翁曉玲"],"page_start":175,"meetingDate":["2025-10-15"],"gazette_id":"1148302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148302_00005"}}}