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\"委\", \"start\": 630.382, \"end\": 630.402, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,559 --> 00:00:08,402\n謝謝謝謝主席莊部長還有財政部與會所有列席的官員是不是請莊部長我們請莊部長委員長部長早部長我請教因為這個主計長陳淑芝說這個資源分配會略有優先的順序舉例來說像民生經濟優先\n\n2\n00:00:28,351 --> 00:00:56,679\n那更細項的像治水啦災害等等包括防禦就是最優先的編列那我請問部長像陳淑芝這個主計長針對預算資源分配以及優先順序編列的說法你認為能夠化解外界對賴總統提出台灣之盾國防預算發生排擠其他預算的疑慮嗎你的看法呢\n\n3\n00:00:57,661 --> 00:01:23,943\n跟委员报告财政部主责的是财政资源的筹措那在资源配置的部分会呈现在预算书上那当然主席长所讲的重点的资源都是重点的工作都是非常重要关乎的民生经济我想这个都是民众所关心的但是国防的部分必须要有国家的安全才能让社会更安定经济的发展才能够更好\n\n4\n00:01:25,645 --> 00:01:53,112\n部長因為執政黨的行政團隊把普發現金的政策用破壞財政紀律來影響國力的帽子扣債在野黨那現在普發現金承讓後竟然總統還能提出更大筆經費準備編列台灣之盾的國防預算那我請問部長為什麼要求政府普發現金就喊沒錢\n\n5\n00:01:54,272 --> 00:02:14,053\n就罵在野黨的做法知識體大反之普發現金定案後竟然賴總統還能夠提出更多國防預算在台灣之盾之上難道只有只要是在野黨的建議就是排取預算執政黨的政策就萬無一失嗎\n\n6\n00:02:15,014 --> 00:02:17,516\n你作何說法你講跟委員報告我們國家的安全台灣的安全除了關乎我們台灣民眾之外也關乎整個亞太地區經濟的一個安全所以這個部分很重要很重要我知道必須要強化那至於普發現金的這一個部分其實政府多年來對於中低收入或者是弱勢團體脆弱的團體\n\n7\n00:02:38,969 --> 00:02:45,856\n我們必須要加強在這方面的支柱我想這個是非常重要的那普發現金在任性條例已經入法了那當然入法以後那些後續就是特別預算那目前特別預算也經過大院的在審議當中\n\n8\n00:02:55,265 --> 00:03:16,426\n那經過大院三讀通過我們就會後續就會來做執行發放的作業那我請教你為什麼我問國防部部長顧立雄在院會裡面來質詢喔我問他說到底我們現在有多少錢買武器還在美國結果武器沒來已經放了N年了他不敢回答顧部長不敢回答喔\n\n9\n00:03:21,050 --> 00:03:48,777\n對不對所以他還要再去查一查你身為一個部長難道多少武器錢已經給了在美國武器沒來這個不敢答嗎對不對然後你後續又要編列很多的預算像今年9495億對不對你那麼多錢給美國結果武器沒來沒來你又繼續編包括最近那個海昆話大家都看在眼裡啦\n\n10\n00:03:49,773 --> 00:04:05,872\n對不對我們不是說國防不重要很重要防衛自己也很重要問題是對不對你給的錢武器什麼都沒來啊只給錢就好了什麼我們變成美國的小弟只要他講一我們就做三是不是部長\n\n11\n00:04:09,656 --> 00:04:37,367\n回顧台美談判過程四月中旬雙方展開首次的視訊會議五月初首輪實體磋商六月底又進行第二輪實體的磋商七月初第三度在美磋商八月進行第四輪的談判結果換來美國對等關稅台灣暫行稅率百分之二十還要疊加八月七日生效\n\n12\n00:04:38,854 --> 00:04:57,380\n那政務院長說經過五輪實體磋商關稅談判提出台灣模式共同打造產業聚落獲得美方正面的回應那我請問部長美方所謂正面的回應到底是什麼難道台灣暫行稅率20%已經獲得調降嗎還是確定這個取消了疊加的這些稅率\n\n13\n00:05:06,323 --> 00:05:10,366\n又或者部長你有更明確的答案來讓大家了解跟委員報告台美關稅的談判還在持續的進行當中那是由政府院長率領OTN去到相關的談判那我想政府院長也多次說明了我們在談判裡面是要秉持的維護國家的利益維護產業的一個發展的動能以及\n\n14\n00:05:29,737 --> 00:05:43,332\n一定要維護國民健康跟糧食安全在這樣的前提下進行相關的一些談判那同時在除了台美關稅之間對等關稅談判之外我們會爭取更好的對等關稅的稅率以及不要疊加以及232條款裡面能夠為我們產業爭取最好的一個結果\n\n15\n00:05:52,488 --> 00:06:16,915\n日本跟韓國15%沒有疊加對不對然後人家講什麼人家講一我們做三講實在話啦我們變成美國的小弟人家講一我們就做三談判團隊都會為國家的利益來做最大的一個爭取部長事實上對美談判台灣是弱勢的一方就本席的感覺多半被動而且受制於美方\n\n16\n00:06:17,995 --> 00:06:47,355\n按照政府院長的表示現階段談判重點美方期待擴大投資並進行供應鏈的合作那台灣希望能夠調降對等的關稅而且不疊加原來的稅率以及爭取232條款的優惠待遇那我請問台美合作下的台灣模式你認為誰獲利最大美方還是台灣\n\n17\n00:06:49,196 --> 00:07:02,227\n所謂的台灣模式是由產業去投資那政府做協助然後以G2G的方式來做那這個部分應該是台灣美國以及企業都要能夠三贏三贏但是現在確實擺在眼前我們現在的傳統產業對不對水五金包括自行車甚至於這個工具區等等\n\n18\n00:07:13,897 --> 00:07:26,746\n那些產業活不下去而且很多都失業了都沒有辦法繼續生存這個叫談判的一個結果現階段就是這樣子而且那些失業人他未來會產生社會問題\n\n19\n00:07:28,203 --> 00:07:31,445\n對不對那個部長你有什麼看法是跟委員報告對於受到美國對等關稅影響有部分產業傳產的部分確實受到衝擊那政府也對於這些受到衝擊的產業進行相關的一些措施比如說像我們那個韌性那個特別條例以及特別預算就是包含這個項目在裡面我們要對於這些受衝擊的產業那個補助並不是\n\n20\n00:07:52,154 --> 00:07:53,655\n補助協助並不是終究補助協助不是終究我們談了那麼久得到的結果因為對於調降關稅不疊加原稅率以及232條款關稅\n\n21\n00:08:09,366 --> 00:08:24,508\n優惠的大意的談判部長你認為哪一項對台灣的產業影響最大我們有什麼籌碼可以跟美國能夠讓他認同我想委員您說的都很重要那也是談判團隊非常重視的以及對美方會提出這方面的訴求\n\n22\n00:08:24,889 --> 00:08:52,923\n但是已經談了那麼久現階段確實存在的問題就在那裡那麼多產業活不下去對不對那人家講義我們做山那整個所有AI什麼團隊全部都要去你說我們企業可以生存嗎那個去國外投資這是產業它在佈局的時候它會做一個考量那也有基於產業本身的利益來做考量的\n\n23\n00:08:53,263 --> 00:09:01,911\n那個部長另外有關美台快速雙重稅收減免的法案請問進度到哪裡了\n\n24\n00:09:02,808 --> 00:09:12,014\n是謝謝委員關注要跟委員報告目前來說快速減免這個法案目前來說還是在參議院當然美國還在處理其他的優先法案6月下旬本期執行部長的時候看起來現在都還在還在排審當中是那部長\n\n25\n00:09:23,382 --> 00:09:46,003\n法案後續要送到美國這個先眾院再參院那最後還要經過表決那還要經過美國總統的簽署那我請問部長就您了解你認為今年年底以前會不會排入我們參院來表決會不會在眾院的部分是今年1月15已經通過那有關參院的部分目前他們還在聚焦處理\n\n26\n00:09:46,443 --> 00:10:00,899\n川普政府的優先重要的法案所以目前在排審當中在時程上我們比較難以來說明但是委員您的質詢可以表達就是我們台灣國內的產業的一個希望盡快簽署的一個意見我想這個也讓美方可以聽得到那你認為\n\n27\n00:10:02,020 --> 00:10:19,050\n明年會不會有機會財政部還有外交部以及駐美代表處都持續的跟美國的相關的國會跟官員在努力的進行當中而我們在技術面的部分我們和美方的政府其實還有持續的一直待在討論當中\n\n28\n00:10:20,131 --> 00:10:30,402\n我希望要務實面啦不要那種虛晃然後好像就是騙一騙然後我們就一次又一次人家講什麼我們就做什麼對不對要有國格啊謝謝好謝謝委員指教謝謝好謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1559\t8402\t謝謝 謝謝主席莊部長還有財政部與會所有列席的官員是不是請莊部長我們請莊部長委員長部長早部長我請教因為這個主計長陳淑芝說這個資源分配會略有優先的順序舉例來說像民生 經濟優先\n28351\t56679\t那更細項的像治水啦災害等等包括防禦就是最優先的編列那我請問部長像陳淑芝這個主計長針對預算資源分配以及優先順序編列的說法你認為能夠化解外界對賴總統提出台灣之盾國防預算發生排擠其他預算的疑慮嗎你的看法呢\n57661\t83943\t跟委员报告财政部主责的是财政资源的筹措那在资源配置的部分会呈现在预算书上那当然主席长所讲的重点的资源都是重点的工作都是非常重要关乎的民生经济我想这个都是民众所关心的但是国防的部分必须要有国家的安全才能让社会更安定经济的发展才能够更好\n85645\t113112\t部長因為執政黨的行政團隊把普發現金的政策用破壞財政紀律來影響國力的帽子扣債在野黨那現在普發現金承讓後竟然總統還能提出更大筆經費準備編列台灣之盾的國防預算那我請問部長為什麼要求政府普發現金就喊沒錢\n114272\t134053\t就罵在野黨的做法知識體大反之普發現金定案後竟然賴總統還能夠提出更多國防預算在台灣之盾之上難道只有只要是在野黨的建議就是排取預算執政黨的政策就萬無一失嗎\n135014\t137516\t你作何說法 你講跟委員報告我們國家的安全 台灣的安全除了關乎我們台灣民眾之外也關乎整個亞太地區經濟的一個安全所以這個部分很重要很重要我知道 必須要強化那至於普發現金的這一個部分其實政府多年來對於中低收入或者是弱勢團體 脆弱的團體\n158969\t165856\t我們必須要加強在這方面的支柱我想這個是非常重要的那普發現金在任性條例已經入法了那當然入法以後那些後續就是特別預算那目前特別預算也經過大院的在審議當中\n175265\t196426\t那經過大院三讀通過我們就會後續就會來做執行發放的作業那我請教你為什麼我問國防部部長顧立雄在院會裡面來質詢喔我問他說到底我們現在有多少錢買武器還在美國結果武器沒來已經放了N年了他不敢回答顧部長不敢回答喔\n201050\t228777\t對不對 所以他還要再去查一查你身為一個部長難道多少武器錢已經給了在美國武器沒來這個不敢答嗎 對不對然後你後續又要編列很多的預算像今年9495億 對不對你那麼多錢給美國結果武器沒來沒來你又繼續編包括最近那個海昆話大家都看在眼裡啦\n229773\t245872\t對不對 我們不是說國防不重要 很重要防衛自己也很重要 問題是對不對 你給的錢武器什麼都沒來 啊只給錢就好了什麼 我們變成美國的小弟只要他講一 我們就做三 是不是部長\n249656\t277367\t回顧台美談判過程四月中旬雙方展開首次的視訊會議五月初首輪實體磋商六月底又進行第二輪實體的磋商七月初第三度在美磋商八月進行第四輪的談判結果換來美國對等關稅台灣暫行稅率百分之二十還要疊加八月七日生效\n278854\t297380\t那政務院長說經過五輪實體磋商關稅談判提出台灣模式共同打造產業聚落獲得美方正面的回應那我請問部長美方所謂正面的回應到底是什麼難道台灣暫行稅率20%已經獲得調降嗎還是確定這個取消了疊加的這些稅率\n306323\t310366\t又或者部長你有更明確的答案來讓大家了解跟委員報告台美關稅的談判還在持續的進行當中那是由政府院長率領OTN去到相關的談判那我想政府院長也多次說明了我們在談判裡面是要秉持的維護國家的利益維護產業的一個發展的動能以及\n329737\t343332\t一定要維護國民健康跟糧食安全在這樣的前提下進行相關的一些談判那同時在除了台美關稅之間對等關稅談判之外我們會爭取更好的對等關稅的稅率以及不要疊加以及232條款裡面能夠為我們產業爭取最好的一個結果\n352488\t376915\t日本跟韓國15%沒有疊加對不對然後人家講什麼人家講一我們做三講實在話啦我們變成美國的小弟人家講一我們就做三談判團隊都會為國家的利益來做最大的一個爭取部長事實上對美談判台灣是弱勢的一方就本席的感覺多半被動而且受制於美方\n377995\t407355\t按照政府院長的表示現階段談判重點美方期待擴大投資並進行供應鏈的合作那台灣希望能夠調降對等的關稅而且不疊加原來的稅率以及爭取232條款的優惠待遇那我請問台美合作下的台灣模式你認為誰獲利最大美方還是台灣\n409196\t422227\t所謂的台灣模式是由產業去投資那政府做協助然後以G2G的方式來做那這個部分應該是台灣美國以及企業都要能夠三贏三贏但是現在確實擺在眼前我們現在的傳統產業對不對水五金包括自行車甚至於這個工具區等等\n433897\t446746\t那些產業活不下去而且很多都失業了都沒有辦法繼續生存這個叫談判的一個結果現階段就是這樣子而且那些失業人他未來會產生社會問題\n448203\t451445\t對不對那個部長你有什麼看法是跟委員報告對於受到美國對等關稅影響有部分產業傳產的部分確實受到衝擊那政府也對於這些受到衝擊的產業進行相關的一些措施比如說像我們那個韌性那個特別條例以及特別預算就是包含這個項目在裡面我們要對於這些受衝擊的產業那個補助並不是\n472154\t473655\t補助協助並不是終究補助協助不是終究我們談了那麼久得到的結果因為對於調降關稅不疊加原稅率以及232條款關稅\n489366\t504508\t優惠的大意的談判部長你認為哪一項對台灣的產業影響最大我們有什麼籌碼可以跟美國能夠讓他認同我想委員您說的都很重要那也是談判團隊非常重視的以及對美方會提出這方面的訴求\n504889\t532923\t但是已經談了那麼久現階段確實存在的問題就在那裡那麼多產業活不下去對不對那人家講義我們做山那整個所有AI什麼團隊全部都要去你說我們企業可以生存嗎那個去國外投資這是產業它在佈局的時候它會做一個考量那也有基於產業本身的利益來做考量的\n533263\t541911\t那個部長另外有關美台快速雙重稅收減免的法案請問進度到哪裡了\n542808\t552014\t是 謝謝委員關注要跟委員報告目前來說快速減免這個法案目前來說還是在參議院當然美國還在處理其他的優先法案6月下旬本期執行部長的時候看起來現在都還在還在排審當中 是那部長\n563382\t586003\t法案後續要送到美國這個先眾院再參院那最後還要經過表決那還要經過美國總統的簽署那我請問部長就您了解你認為今年年底以前會不會排入我們參院來表決會不會在眾院的部分是今年1月15已經通過那有關參院的部分目前他們還在聚焦處理\n586443\t600899\t川普政府的優先重要的法案所以目前在排審當中在時程上我們比較難以來說明但是委員您的質詢可以表達就是我們台灣國內的產業的一個希望盡快簽署的一個意見我想這個也讓美方可以聽得到那你認為\n602020\t619050\t明年會不會有機會財政部還有外交部以及駐美代表處都持續的跟美國的相關的國會跟官員在努力的進行當中而我們在技術面的部分我們和美方的政府其實還有持續的一直待在討論當中\n620131\t630402\t我希望要務實面啦不要那種虛晃然後好像就是騙一騙然後我們就一次又一次人家講什麼我們就做什麼對不對要有國格啊 謝謝好 謝謝委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員\n","txt":"謝謝 謝謝主席莊部長還有財政部與會所有列席的官員是不是請莊部長我們請莊部長委員長部長早部長我請教因為這個主計長陳淑芝說這個資源分配會略有優先的順序舉例來說像民生 經濟優先\n那更細項的像治水啦災害等等包括防禦就是最優先的編列那我請問部長像陳淑芝這個主計長針對預算資源分配以及優先順序編列的說法你認為能夠化解外界對賴總統提出台灣之盾國防預算發生排擠其他預算的疑慮嗎你的看法呢\n跟委员报告财政部主责的是财政资源的筹措那在资源配置的部分会呈现在预算书上那当然主席长所讲的重点的资源都是重点的工作都是非常重要关乎的民生经济我想这个都是民众所关心的但是国防的部分必须要有国家的安全才能让社会更安定经济的发展才能够更好\n部長因為執政黨的行政團隊把普發現金的政策用破壞財政紀律來影響國力的帽子扣債在野黨那現在普發現金承讓後竟然總統還能提出更大筆經費準備編列台灣之盾的國防預算那我請問部長為什麼要求政府普發現金就喊沒錢\n就罵在野黨的做法知識體大反之普發現金定案後竟然賴總統還能夠提出更多國防預算在台灣之盾之上難道只有只要是在野黨的建議就是排取預算執政黨的政策就萬無一失嗎\n你作何說法 你講跟委員報告我們國家的安全 台灣的安全除了關乎我們台灣民眾之外也關乎整個亞太地區經濟的一個安全所以這個部分很重要很重要我知道 必須要強化那至於普發現金的這一個部分其實政府多年來對於中低收入或者是弱勢團體 脆弱的團體\n我們必須要加強在這方面的支柱我想這個是非常重要的那普發現金在任性條例已經入法了那當然入法以後那些後續就是特別預算那目前特別預算也經過大院的在審議當中\n那經過大院三讀通過我們就會後續就會來做執行發放的作業那我請教你為什麼我問國防部部長顧立雄在院會裡面來質詢喔我問他說到底我們現在有多少錢買武器還在美國結果武器沒來已經放了N年了他不敢回答顧部長不敢回答喔\n對不對 所以他還要再去查一查你身為一個部長難道多少武器錢已經給了在美國武器沒來這個不敢答嗎 對不對然後你後續又要編列很多的預算像今年9495億 對不對你那麼多錢給美國結果武器沒來沒來你又繼續編包括最近那個海昆話大家都看在眼裡啦\n對不對 我們不是說國防不重要 很重要防衛自己也很重要 問題是對不對 你給的錢武器什麼都沒來 啊只給錢就好了什麼 我們變成美國的小弟只要他講一 我們就做三 是不是部長\n回顧台美談判過程四月中旬雙方展開首次的視訊會議五月初首輪實體磋商六月底又進行第二輪實體的磋商七月初第三度在美磋商八月進行第四輪的談判結果換來美國對等關稅台灣暫行稅率百分之二十還要疊加八月七日生效\n那政務院長說經過五輪實體磋商關稅談判提出台灣模式共同打造產業聚落獲得美方正面的回應那我請問部長美方所謂正面的回應到底是什麼難道台灣暫行稅率20%已經獲得調降嗎還是確定這個取消了疊加的這些稅率\n又或者部長你有更明確的答案來讓大家了解跟委員報告台美關稅的談判還在持續的進行當中那是由政府院長率領OTN去到相關的談判那我想政府院長也多次說明了我們在談判裡面是要秉持的維護國家的利益維護產業的一個發展的動能以及\n一定要維護國民健康跟糧食安全在這樣的前提下進行相關的一些談判那同時在除了台美關稅之間對等關稅談判之外我們會爭取更好的對等關稅的稅率以及不要疊加以及232條款裡面能夠為我們產業爭取最好的一個結果\n日本跟韓國15%沒有疊加對不對然後人家講什麼人家講一我們做三講實在話啦我們變成美國的小弟人家講一我們就做三談判團隊都會為國家的利益來做最大的一個爭取部長事實上對美談判台灣是弱勢的一方就本席的感覺多半被動而且受制於美方\n按照政府院長的表示現階段談判重點美方期待擴大投資並進行供應鏈的合作那台灣希望能夠調降對等的關稅而且不疊加原來的稅率以及爭取232條款的優惠待遇那我請問台美合作下的台灣模式你認為誰獲利最大美方還是台灣\n所謂的台灣模式是由產業去投資那政府做協助然後以G2G的方式來做那這個部分應該是台灣美國以及企業都要能夠三贏三贏但是現在確實擺在眼前我們現在的傳統產業對不對水五金包括自行車甚至於這個工具區等等\n那些產業活不下去而且很多都失業了都沒有辦法繼續生存這個叫談判的一個結果現階段就是這樣子而且那些失業人他未來會產生社會問題\n對不對那個部長你有什麼看法是跟委員報告對於受到美國對等關稅影響有部分產業傳產的部分確實受到衝擊那政府也對於這些受到衝擊的產業進行相關的一些措施比如說像我們那個韌性那個特別條例以及特別預算就是包含這個項目在裡面我們要對於這些受衝擊的產業那個補助並不是\n補助協助並不是終究補助協助不是終究我們談了那麼久得到的結果因為對於調降關稅不疊加原稅率以及232條款關稅\n優惠的大意的談判部長你認為哪一項對台灣的產業影響最大我們有什麼籌碼可以跟美國能夠讓他認同我想委員您說的都很重要那也是談判團隊非常重視的以及對美方會提出這方面的訴求\n但是已經談了那麼久現階段確實存在的問題就在那裡那麼多產業活不下去對不對那人家講義我們做山那整個所有AI什麼團隊全部都要去你說我們企業可以生存嗎那個去國外投資這是產業它在佈局的時候它會做一個考量那也有基於產業本身的利益來做考量的\n那個部長另外有關美台快速雙重稅收減免的法案請問進度到哪裡了\n是 謝謝委員關注要跟委員報告目前來說快速減免這個法案目前來說還是在參議院當然美國還在處理其他的優先法案6月下旬本期執行部長的時候看起來現在都還在還在排審當中 是那部長\n法案後續要送到美國這個先眾院再參院那最後還要經過表決那還要經過美國總統的簽署那我請問部長就您了解你認為今年年底以前會不會排入我們參院來表決會不會在眾院的部分是今年1月15已經通過那有關參院的部分目前他們還在聚焦處理\n川普政府的優先重要的法案所以目前在排審當中在時程上我們比較難以來說明但是委員您的質詢可以表達就是我們台灣國內的產業的一個希望盡快簽署的一個意見我想這個也讓美方可以聽得到那你認為\n明年會不會有機會財政部還有外交部以及駐美代表處都持續的跟美國的相關的國會跟官員在努力的進行當中而我們在技術面的部分我們和美方的政府其實還有持續的一直待在討論當中\n我希望要務實面啦不要那種虛晃然後好像就是騙一騙然後我們就一次又一次人家講什麼我們就做什麼對不對要有國格啊 謝謝好 謝謝委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.559 --> 00:08.402\n謝謝謝謝主席莊部長還有財政部與會所有列席的官員是不是請莊部長我們請莊部長委員長部長早部長我請教因為這個主計長陳淑芝說這個資源分配會略有優先的順序舉例來說像民生經濟優先\n\n00:28.351 --> 00:56.679\n那更細項的像治水啦災害等等包括防禦就是最優先的編列那我請問部長像陳淑芝這個主計長針對預算資源分配以及優先順序編列的說法你認為能夠化解外界對賴總統提出台灣之盾國防預算發生排擠其他預算的疑慮嗎你的看法呢\n\n00:57.661 --> 01:23.943\n跟委员报告财政部主责的是财政资源的筹措那在资源配置的部分会呈现在预算书上那当然主席长所讲的重点的资源都是重点的工作都是非常重要关乎的民生经济我想这个都是民众所关心的但是国防的部分必须要有国家的安全才能让社会更安定经济的发展才能够更好\n\n01:25.645 --> 01:53.112\n部長因為執政黨的行政團隊把普發現金的政策用破壞財政紀律來影響國力的帽子扣債在野黨那現在普發現金承讓後竟然總統還能提出更大筆經費準備編列台灣之盾的國防預算那我請問部長為什麼要求政府普發現金就喊沒錢\n\n01:54.272 --> 02:14.053\n就罵在野黨的做法知識體大反之普發現金定案後竟然賴總統還能夠提出更多國防預算在台灣之盾之上難道只有只要是在野黨的建議就是排取預算執政黨的政策就萬無一失嗎\n\n02:15.014 --> 02:17.516\n你作何說法你講跟委員報告我們國家的安全台灣的安全除了關乎我們台灣民眾之外也關乎整個亞太地區經濟的一個安全所以這個部分很重要很重要我知道必須要強化那至於普發現金的這一個部分其實政府多年來對於中低收入或者是弱勢團體脆弱的團體\n\n02:38.969 --> 02:45.856\n我們必須要加強在這方面的支柱我想這個是非常重要的那普發現金在任性條例已經入法了那當然入法以後那些後續就是特別預算那目前特別預算也經過大院的在審議當中\n\n02:55.265 --> 03:16.426\n那經過大院三讀通過我們就會後續就會來做執行發放的作業那我請教你為什麼我問國防部部長顧立雄在院會裡面來質詢喔我問他說到底我們現在有多少錢買武器還在美國結果武器沒來已經放了N年了他不敢回答顧部長不敢回答喔\n\n03:21.050 --> 03:48.777\n對不對所以他還要再去查一查你身為一個部長難道多少武器錢已經給了在美國武器沒來這個不敢答嗎對不對然後你後續又要編列很多的預算像今年9495億對不對你那麼多錢給美國結果武器沒來沒來你又繼續編包括最近那個海昆話大家都看在眼裡啦\n\n03:49.773 --> 04:05.872\n對不對我們不是說國防不重要很重要防衛自己也很重要問題是對不對你給的錢武器什麼都沒來啊只給錢就好了什麼我們變成美國的小弟只要他講一我們就做三是不是部長\n\n04:09.656 --> 04:37.367\n回顧台美談判過程四月中旬雙方展開首次的視訊會議五月初首輪實體磋商六月底又進行第二輪實體的磋商七月初第三度在美磋商八月進行第四輪的談判結果換來美國對等關稅台灣暫行稅率百分之二十還要疊加八月七日生效\n\n04:38.854 --> 04:57.380\n那政務院長說經過五輪實體磋商關稅談判提出台灣模式共同打造產業聚落獲得美方正面的回應那我請問部長美方所謂正面的回應到底是什麼難道台灣暫行稅率20%已經獲得調降嗎還是確定這個取消了疊加的這些稅率\n\n05:06.323 --> 05:10.366\n又或者部長你有更明確的答案來讓大家了解跟委員報告台美關稅的談判還在持續的進行當中那是由政府院長率領OTN去到相關的談判那我想政府院長也多次說明了我們在談判裡面是要秉持的維護國家的利益維護產業的一個發展的動能以及\n\n05:29.737 --> 05:43.332\n一定要維護國民健康跟糧食安全在這樣的前提下進行相關的一些談判那同時在除了台美關稅之間對等關稅談判之外我們會爭取更好的對等關稅的稅率以及不要疊加以及232條款裡面能夠為我們產業爭取最好的一個結果\n\n05:52.488 --> 06:16.915\n日本跟韓國15%沒有疊加對不對然後人家講什麼人家講一我們做三講實在話啦我們變成美國的小弟人家講一我們就做三談判團隊都會為國家的利益來做最大的一個爭取部長事實上對美談判台灣是弱勢的一方就本席的感覺多半被動而且受制於美方\n\n06:17.995 --> 06:47.355\n按照政府院長的表示現階段談判重點美方期待擴大投資並進行供應鏈的合作那台灣希望能夠調降對等的關稅而且不疊加原來的稅率以及爭取232條款的優惠待遇那我請問台美合作下的台灣模式你認為誰獲利最大美方還是台灣\n\n06:49.196 --> 07:02.227\n所謂的台灣模式是由產業去投資那政府做協助然後以G2G的方式來做那這個部分應該是台灣美國以及企業都要能夠三贏三贏但是現在確實擺在眼前我們現在的傳統產業對不對水五金包括自行車甚至於這個工具區等等\n\n07:13.897 --> 07:26.746\n那些產業活不下去而且很多都失業了都沒有辦法繼續生存這個叫談判的一個結果現階段就是這樣子而且那些失業人他未來會產生社會問題\n\n07:28.203 --> 07:31.445\n對不對那個部長你有什麼看法是跟委員報告對於受到美國對等關稅影響有部分產業傳產的部分確實受到衝擊那政府也對於這些受到衝擊的產業進行相關的一些措施比如說像我們那個韌性那個特別條例以及特別預算就是包含這個項目在裡面我們要對於這些受衝擊的產業那個補助並不是\n\n07:52.154 --> 07:53.655\n補助協助並不是終究補助協助不是終究我們談了那麼久得到的結果因為對於調降關稅不疊加原稅率以及232條款關稅\n\n08:09.366 --> 08:24.508\n優惠的大意的談判部長你認為哪一項對台灣的產業影響最大我們有什麼籌碼可以跟美國能夠讓他認同我想委員您說的都很重要那也是談判團隊非常重視的以及對美方會提出這方面的訴求\n\n08:24.889 --> 08:52.923\n但是已經談了那麼久現階段確實存在的問題就在那裡那麼多產業活不下去對不對那人家講義我們做山那整個所有AI什麼團隊全部都要去你說我們企業可以生存嗎那個去國外投資這是產業它在佈局的時候它會做一個考量那也有基於產業本身的利益來做考量的\n\n08:53.263 --> 09:01.911\n那個部長另外有關美台快速雙重稅收減免的法案請問進度到哪裡了\n\n09:02.808 --> 09:12.014\n是謝謝委員關注要跟委員報告目前來說快速減免這個法案目前來說還是在參議院當然美國還在處理其他的優先法案6月下旬本期執行部長的時候看起來現在都還在還在排審當中是那部長\n\n09:23.382 --> 09:46.003\n法案後續要送到美國這個先眾院再參院那最後還要經過表決那還要經過美國總統的簽署那我請問部長就您了解你認為今年年底以前會不會排入我們參院來表決會不會在眾院的部分是今年1月15已經通過那有關參院的部分目前他們還在聚焦處理\n\n09:46.443 --> 10:00.899\n川普政府的優先重要的法案所以目前在排審當中在時程上我們比較難以來說明但是委員您的質詢可以表達就是我們台灣國內的產業的一個希望盡快簽署的一個意見我想這個也讓美方可以聽得到那你認為\n\n10:02.020 --> 10:19.050\n明年會不會有機會財政部還有外交部以及駐美代表處都持續的跟美國的相關的國會跟官員在努力的進行當中而我們在技術面的部分我們和美方的政府其實還有持續的一直待在討論當中\n\n10:20.131 --> 10:30.402\n我希望要務實面啦不要那種虛晃然後好像就是騙一騙然後我們就一次又一次人家講什麼我們就做什麼對不對要有國格啊謝謝好謝謝委員指教謝謝好謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.559,"end":8.402,"text":"謝謝 謝謝主席莊部長還有財政部與會所有列席的官員是不是請莊部長我們請莊部長委員長部長早部長我請教因為這個主計長陳淑芝說這個資源分配會略有優先的順序舉例來說像民生 經濟優先"},{"start":28.351,"end":56.679,"text":"那更細項的像治水啦災害等等包括防禦就是最優先的編列那我請問部長像陳淑芝這個主計長針對預算資源分配以及優先順序編列的說法你認為能夠化解外界對賴總統提出台灣之盾國防預算發生排擠其他預算的疑慮嗎你的看法呢"},{"start":57.661,"end":83.943,"text":"跟委员报告财政部主责的是财政资源的筹措那在资源配置的部分会呈现在预算书上那当然主席长所讲的重点的资源都是重点的工作都是非常重要关乎的民生经济我想这个都是民众所关心的但是国防的部分必须要有国家的安全才能让社会更安定经济的发展才能够更好"},{"start":85.645,"end":113.112,"text":"部長因為執政黨的行政團隊把普發現金的政策用破壞財政紀律來影響國力的帽子扣債在野黨那現在普發現金承讓後竟然總統還能提出更大筆經費準備編列台灣之盾的國防預算那我請問部長為什麼要求政府普發現金就喊沒錢"},{"start":114.272,"end":134.053,"text":"就罵在野黨的做法知識體大反之普發現金定案後竟然賴總統還能夠提出更多國防預算在台灣之盾之上難道只有只要是在野黨的建議就是排取預算執政黨的政策就萬無一失嗎"},{"start":135.014,"end":137.516,"text":"你作何說法 你講跟委員報告我們國家的安全 台灣的安全除了關乎我們台灣民眾之外也關乎整個亞太地區經濟的一個安全所以這個部分很重要很重要我知道 必須要強化那至於普發現金的這一個部分其實政府多年來對於中低收入或者是弱勢團體 脆弱的團體"},{"start":158.969,"end":165.856,"text":"我們必須要加強在這方面的支柱我想這個是非常重要的那普發現金在任性條例已經入法了那當然入法以後那些後續就是特別預算那目前特別預算也經過大院的在審議當中"},{"start":175.265,"end":196.426,"text":"那經過大院三讀通過我們就會後續就會來做執行發放的作業那我請教你為什麼我問國防部部長顧立雄在院會裡面來質詢喔我問他說到底我們現在有多少錢買武器還在美國結果武器沒來已經放了N年了他不敢回答顧部長不敢回答喔"},{"start":201.05,"end":228.777,"text":"對不對 所以他還要再去查一查你身為一個部長難道多少武器錢已經給了在美國武器沒來這個不敢答嗎 對不對然後你後續又要編列很多的預算像今年9495億 對不對你那麼多錢給美國結果武器沒來沒來你又繼續編包括最近那個海昆話大家都看在眼裡啦"},{"start":229.773,"end":245.872,"text":"對不對 我們不是說國防不重要 很重要防衛自己也很重要 問題是對不對 你給的錢武器什麼都沒來 啊只給錢就好了什麼 我們變成美國的小弟只要他講一 我們就做三 是不是部長"},{"start":249.656,"end":277.367,"text":"回顧台美談判過程四月中旬雙方展開首次的視訊會議五月初首輪實體磋商六月底又進行第二輪實體的磋商七月初第三度在美磋商八月進行第四輪的談判結果換來美國對等關稅台灣暫行稅率百分之二十還要疊加八月七日生效"},{"start":278.854,"end":297.38,"text":"那政務院長說經過五輪實體磋商關稅談判提出台灣模式共同打造產業聚落獲得美方正面的回應那我請問部長美方所謂正面的回應到底是什麼難道台灣暫行稅率20%已經獲得調降嗎還是確定這個取消了疊加的這些稅率"},{"start":306.323,"end":310.366,"text":"又或者部長你有更明確的答案來讓大家了解跟委員報告台美關稅的談判還在持續的進行當中那是由政府院長率領OTN去到相關的談判那我想政府院長也多次說明了我們在談判裡面是要秉持的維護國家的利益維護產業的一個發展的動能以及"},{"start":329.737,"end":343.332,"text":"一定要維護國民健康跟糧食安全在這樣的前提下進行相關的一些談判那同時在除了台美關稅之間對等關稅談判之外我們會爭取更好的對等關稅的稅率以及不要疊加以及232條款裡面能夠為我們產業爭取最好的一個結果"},{"start":352.488,"end":376.915,"text":"日本跟韓國15%沒有疊加對不對然後人家講什麼人家講一我們做三講實在話啦我們變成美國的小弟人家講一我們就做三談判團隊都會為國家的利益來做最大的一個爭取部長事實上對美談判台灣是弱勢的一方就本席的感覺多半被動而且受制於美方"},{"start":377.995,"end":407.355,"text":"按照政府院長的表示現階段談判重點美方期待擴大投資並進行供應鏈的合作那台灣希望能夠調降對等的關稅而且不疊加原來的稅率以及爭取232條款的優惠待遇那我請問台美合作下的台灣模式你認為誰獲利最大美方還是台灣"},{"start":409.196,"end":422.227,"text":"所謂的台灣模式是由產業去投資那政府做協助然後以G2G的方式來做那這個部分應該是台灣美國以及企業都要能夠三贏三贏但是現在確實擺在眼前我們現在的傳統產業對不對水五金包括自行車甚至於這個工具區等等"},{"start":433.897,"end":446.746,"text":"那些產業活不下去而且很多都失業了都沒有辦法繼續生存這個叫談判的一個結果現階段就是這樣子而且那些失業人他未來會產生社會問題"},{"start":448.203,"end":451.445,"text":"對不對那個部長你有什麼看法是跟委員報告對於受到美國對等關稅影響有部分產業傳產的部分確實受到衝擊那政府也對於這些受到衝擊的產業進行相關的一些措施比如說像我們那個韌性那個特別條例以及特別預算就是包含這個項目在裡面我們要對於這些受衝擊的產業那個補助並不是"},{"start":472.154,"end":473.655,"text":"補助協助並不是終究補助協助不是終究我們談了那麼久得到的結果因為對於調降關稅不疊加原稅率以及232條款關稅"},{"start":489.366,"end":504.508,"text":"優惠的大意的談判部長你認為哪一項對台灣的產業影響最大我們有什麼籌碼可以跟美國能夠讓他認同我想委員您說的都很重要那也是談判團隊非常重視的以及對美方會提出這方面的訴求"},{"start":504.889,"end":532.923,"text":"但是已經談了那麼久現階段確實存在的問題就在那裡那麼多產業活不下去對不對那人家講義我們做山那整個所有AI什麼團隊全部都要去你說我們企業可以生存嗎那個去國外投資這是產業它在佈局的時候它會做一個考量那也有基於產業本身的利益來做考量的"},{"start":533.263,"end":541.911,"text":"那個部長另外有關美台快速雙重稅收減免的法案請問進度到哪裡了"},{"start":542.808,"end":552.014,"text":"是 謝謝委員關注要跟委員報告目前來說快速減免這個法案目前來說還是在參議院當然美國還在處理其他的優先法案6月下旬本期執行部長的時候看起來現在都還在還在排審當中 是那部長"},{"start":563.382,"end":586.003,"text":"法案後續要送到美國這個先眾院再參院那最後還要經過表決那還要經過美國總統的簽署那我請問部長就您了解你認為今年年底以前會不會排入我們參院來表決會不會在眾院的部分是今年1月15已經通過那有關參院的部分目前他們還在聚焦處理"},{"start":586.443,"end":600.899,"text":"川普政府的優先重要的法案所以目前在排審當中在時程上我們比較難以來說明但是委員您的質詢可以表達就是我們台灣國內的產業的一個希望盡快簽署的一個意見我想這個也讓美方可以聽得到那你認為"},{"start":602.02,"end":619.05,"text":"明年會不會有機會財政部還有外交部以及駐美代表處都持續的跟美國的相關的國會跟官員在努力的進行當中而我們在技術面的部分我們和美方的政府其實還有持續的一直待在討論當中"},{"start":620.131,"end":630.402,"text":"我希望要務實面啦不要那種虛晃然後好像就是騙一騙然後我們就一次又一次人家講什麼我們就做什麼對不對要有國格啊 謝謝好 謝謝委員指教 謝謝好 謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":30,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（9時13分）謝謝主席、莊部長，還有財政部與會所有列席官員。是不是請莊部長？"],["主席：我們請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員早。"],["林委員德福：部長早。部長，因為主計長陳淑姿說資源分配會列有優先順序，舉例來說，像民生、經濟優先，更細項的像治水、災害等等，包括防疫就是最優先編列。請問部長，像陳淑姿主計長針對預算資源分配及優先順序編列的說法，你認為能夠化解外界對賴總統提出臺灣之盾的國防預算發生排擠其他預算的疑慮嗎？你的看法呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，財政部主責財政資源的籌措，在資源配置的部分會呈現在預算書上，當然主計長所講的重點工作都非常重要，關乎民生經濟，我想這都是民眾所關心的。但是國防的部分，必須要有國家安全才能讓社會更安定，然後經濟發展才能夠更好"],["林委員德福：部長，因為執政黨的行政團隊把普發現金政策用破壞財政紀律影響國力的帽子扣在在野黨，現在普發現金成案後，總統竟然還能提出更大筆經費準備編列臺灣之盾的國防預算，我請問部長為什麼要求政府普發現金就喊沒錢，就罵在野黨的作法茲事體大；反之，普發現金定案後，賴總統竟然還能夠提出更多國防預算在臺灣之盾上，難道只要是在野黨的建議就是排擠預算，執政黨的政策就萬無一失嗎？你作何說法？你講。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們國家的安全，臺灣的安全，除了關乎我們臺灣民眾之外，也關乎整個亞太地區經濟的安全，所以這個部分很重要，我們必須要強化。"],["林委員德福：很重要，我知道。"],["莊部長翠雲：至於普發現金的部分，其實政府多年來對於中低收入或者是弱勢團體、脆弱團體，必須要加強在這方面的資助，我想這是非常重要的，普發現金在韌性條例已經入法了，當然入法以後，後續就是特別預算，目前特別預算也正在大院審議當中，經過大院三讀通過，我們後續就會執行發放作業。"],["林委員德福：部長，我請教你，為什麼我在院會質詢國防部部長顧立雄，我問他到底我們現在有多少錢買武器，結果武器在美國還沒來，已經放了N年了，他不敢回答，顧部長不敢回答，說他還要再去查一查。他身為一個部長，難道多少武器，錢已經給了，在美國武器沒來，這個不敢答嗎？然後後續又要編列很多預算，像今年9,495億對不對？你那麼多錢給美國，結果武器沒來，沒來你又繼續編，包括最近的海鯤號，大家都看在眼裡，我們不是說國防不重要，很重要！防衛自己也很重要，問題是你給了錢，武器什麼都沒來，只給錢就好了，怎麼我們變成美國的小弟，只要他講一，我們就做三，是不是？","部長，回顧臺美談判過程，4月中旬雙方展開首次視訊會議，5月初首輪實體磋商，6月底又進行第2輪實體磋商，7月初第3度在美磋商，8月進行第4輪談判，結果換來美國對等關稅，臺灣暫行稅率20%，還要疊加，8月7日生效。鄭副院長說經過5輪實體磋商，關稅談判提出臺灣模式，共同打造產業聚落，獲得美方正面的回應。我請問部長，美方所謂正面的回應到底是什麼？難道臺灣暫行稅率20%已經獲得調降嗎？還是確定取消了這些疊加的稅率，又或者部長是否有更明確的答案來讓大家了解？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，臺美關稅的談判還在持續進行當中，是由鄭副院長率領OTN進行相關談判，我想鄭副院長也多次說明我們在談判裡面是要秉持著維護國家利益，維護產業的發展動能，以及一定要維護國民健康跟糧食安全，在這樣的前提下進行相關的一些談判，同時，除了臺美關稅之間對等關稅談判之外，我們會爭取更好的對等關稅稅率，以及不要疊加……"],["林委員德福：嘴巴講更好……"],["莊部長翠雲：以及第232條款裡面能夠為我們產業爭取最好的結果。"],["林委員德福：但到目前為止完全沒有啊，20%再疊加，日本及韓國15%沒有疊加，對不對？然後人家講什麼？人家講一，我們做三，講實在話，我們變成美國的小弟。"],["莊部長翠雲：我想談判團隊都會……"],["林委員德福：人家講一，我們做三。"],["莊部長翠雲：談判團隊都會為我們國家的利益做最大的爭取。"],["林委員德福：部長，對美的談判事實上臺灣是弱勢的一方，就本席的感覺，多半是被動而且受制於美方。按照鄭副院長表示，現階段談判的重點，美方期待擴大投資並進行供應鏈的合作，而臺灣希望能夠調降對等關稅，不疊加原來的稅率，以及爭取232條款的優惠待遇。請問臺美合作下的臺灣模式，你認為誰獲利最大？美方還是臺灣？"],["莊部長翠雲：所謂的臺灣模式，是由產業去投資，政府作協助，然後以G2G的方式來做，這個部分應該是臺灣、美國以及企業都要能夠三贏。"],["林委員德福：三贏？但是現在確實擺在眼前的是我們的傳統產業，如水五金、自行車、工具機等等產業活不下去，而且很多都失業了，都沒有辦法繼續生存，這個叫談判的結果？現階段就是這樣子，而且那些失業的人未來會產生社會問題，對不對？部長，你有什麼看法？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，跟委員報告，受到美國對等關稅影響，有部分產業，如傳產確實受到衝擊，政府也對於這些受到衝擊的產業進行相關的措施，比如韌性特別條例以及特別預算，就是包含這個項目在裡面，對於這些受衝擊的產業，我們必須要給予補助，要讓它們升級……"],["林委員德福：我了解，補助、協助並不是終究啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：對、對、對，也要讓它們升級轉型。"],["林委員德福：部長，補助、協助不是終究，對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，當然會更長遠地規劃。"],["林委員德福：我們談了那麼久，結果得到的結果……對於調降關稅不疊加原稅率，以及232條款關稅優惠待遇的談判，部長，你認為哪一項對臺灣的產業影響最大？我們有什麼籌碼可以讓美國能夠認同？而且……"],["莊部長翠雲：委員您說的都很重要，這也是談判團隊非常重視的，也會對美方提出這方面的訴求。"],["林委員德福：但是已經談了那麼久，現階段確實就存在問題，那麼多產業活不下去，對不對？人家講一我們做三，所有AI相關團隊全部都要去，我們的企業可以生存嗎？對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：關於去國外投資，產業在布局的時候會做相關考量，也有基於產業本身利益來做考量的。"],["林委員德福：部長，另外有關美臺快速雙重稅收減免法案，請問進度到哪裡了？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝委員的關注，跟委員報告，快速減免法案目前還是在參議院。"],["林委員德福：還在參議院喔！等於是沒有進度啦！。"],["莊部長翠雲：美國還在處理它的優先法案，所以目前還在排審。"],["林委員德福：6月下旬本席質詢部長的時候，現在看起來都還在……"],["莊部長翠雲：還在排審中。"],["林委員德福：對啊！部長，法案後續要先送到美國眾院，再送參院，最後還要經過表決，再經美國總統的簽署，我請問部長，就您的了解，你認為今年年底以前，會不會排入參院來表決，會不會？"],["莊部長翠雲：在眾院的部分是今年1月15日已經通過，有關參院的部分，目前他們還在聚焦處理川普政府的優先重要法案，所以目前在排審當中，在時程上我們比較難以做說明，但是委員您的質詢可以表達我們臺灣國內產業希望儘快簽署的一個意見，我想這個也讓美方可以聽得到。"],["林委員德福：對，那你認為明年會不會有機會？"],["莊部長翠雲：財政部、外交部以及駐美代表處，都持續跟美國相關的國會跟官員努力進行中，而技術面的部分，我們和美方政府其實還有持續地一直在討論。"],["林委員德福：我希望要務實面啦！不要那種虛晃……"],["莊部長翠雲：不會啦！"],["林委員德福：好像就是騙一騙，然後我們就一次又一次地，人家講什麼就做什麼，對不對？要有國格啦！謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：謝謝林委員。接下來我們請吳秉叡委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":238,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-2","speakers":["李坤城","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","林思銘","王世堅","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","邱志偉","黃珊珊","蔡易餘","林楚茵","羅明才","陳玉珍"],"page_start":183,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲率所屬機關首長暨國營事業董事長、總經理（含各轉投資事業機構公股代\n表之董、監事）列席業務報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00004"}}}