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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,434 --> 00:00:28,962\n好有請主委我們請主委好主委本期還是就傳實銷的部分跟你來做個討論本期的主張傳實銷業的業管應該是經濟部而非你們公平會這樣的主張訴求一直不變但在這個訴求達到\n\n2\n00:00:31,404 --> 00:00:51,221\n達成之前我覺得你們還是連監理的工作都做得不好所以如何讓船直銷賣得開心買得安心你們現在你的簡報第8頁寫得多漂亮那我就要告訴你你的監理是多麼的弱化那所以強化產業輔導與產品管理才是你們讓船直銷\n\n3\n00:00:51,941 --> 00:01:21,376\n能够这个产业健全卖得开心买得安心好在多层次传销当中在台湾已经不是小众市场你们简报也讲很清楚今年的年报多层次传销登陆的是2183家参与的人是312万人可见这个产业牵动的是经济活动消费安全跟社会信任传之销在台湾长期就是一个尖锂灰色带的产业我讲尖锂灰色带是对你们的\n\n4\n00:01:21,896 --> 00:01:44,509\n批評他牽涉的經濟發展也影響消費安全過去三年的裁罰只有92件罰還不到3000萬好這樣的績效你來看真的實質的消費爭議跟民刑事的案件超過2400件這都是你們公平會跟消保會我彙整的結果你才裁罰92件\n\n5\n00:01:46,630 --> 00:02:06,068\n然後滑板不到三千欸實質民行是跟消費爭議欸兩千四百件欸你看你的監理力道在哪裡講這簡報寫在那上頭我都替你看嚴好我要強調的傳承消費不能無底線的劣幣驅逐良幣\n\n6\n00:02:06,989 --> 00:02:32,245\n你們現在就簡單講就是公平會放任無良的公司吸金詐騙所以我點出你現在的問題我就就你現在的監理來講第一個你的輔導流於宣傳宣導的活動缺乏實質追蹤跟評鑑機制第二個產品跟收益結構的風險監控是有斷層的你的資訊揭露不透明這是本席的創建嗎也沒有\n\n7\n00:02:32,905 --> 00:02:50,651\n這個其實是放諸國際上他們所做的好我們來看看你們的業務報告我怎麼說你們的監理力道不足你們是標準的準司法機關欸仲裁是你的工具欸這樣的情況之下你的監理力道還相當不足你們公平會的業務報告怎麼講呢\n\n8\n00:02:51,471 --> 00:03:18,941\n好啊這剛才你的簡報第8月就講了辦每年辦理傳銷法令宣導活動與法務部調查局合作防範吸金詐騙有做啊第二個呢主動啊函報這個食品資料給衛生主管機關第三個與衛生主管機關進行聯合稽查跟違法移送第四個真的你也有這個簡化這個作業程序提升效率可是呢來\n\n9\n00:03:20,542 --> 00:03:49,357\n你們現在所做的這三件事情第一個你就缺乏產業輔導成效的量化評估跟風險預警指標了產業輔導你既然要種柴又要輔導我就不知道你怎麼做好那既然你要做就要做得像樣所以呢你們在這個你既然輔導之後沒績效所以我又要求你要量化評估跟風險預警所以呢你沒有三沒有你沒有連度自律的評鑑報告\n\n10\n00:03:50,097 --> 00:04:05,164\n沒有違規再犯率的統計沒有頁著透明度的分析所以簡單講你們就重宣導清雞茶這個辦活動活動多數據少這就是你們現在的狀態好第二個\n\n11\n00:04:07,326 --> 00:04:27,421\n這個國際比較這個根據呢這個國際呢我就好吧你們喜歡報備就報備吧但是人家的報備制也做得有模有樣啊自律跟透明好根據OECD韓國的這個公正交易委員會跟美國的FTC聯邦貿易委員會的做法美國怎麼做他要求傳銷企業公開銷售收益結構\n\n12\n00:04:28,422 --> 00:04:52,115\n你的銷售收入必須高於招募收入這樣才是真的賣產品啊當你的招募是多於銷售的時候變成什麼你在拉人頭啊就有吸金詐騙的嫌疑啊好那韓國怎麼做這些都是屬於報備的喔韓國他建立起誠信業者的評鑑系統評比企業經營的透明度跟公佈值結果日本做什麼\n\n13\n00:04:52,815 --> 00:05:12,098\n實施再犯加重罰凡制再犯我怎麼加重罰凡而且人家是每三年重審報備內容也是報備人家三年審一次就可以管得那麼好你們每年都在做結果呢吸金詐騙層出不窮十萬塊可以成立一家公司倒了再換草永遠都查不到\n\n14\n00:05:13,079 --> 00:05:34,672\n劣幣驅逐良幣嘛所以這些做法這邊建議的都是這些國家都是報備他做的是強化資訊兼容跟事後管理你要做就做像樣所以就比照監理升級的模式現在就是讓你的報備制變成有責任的管理制這是你現在過度的做法本席還是強調商業就是商業\n\n15\n00:05:36,092 --> 00:06:03,877\n那這個管理你是仲裁就是仲裁所以既然這個傳銷業它就是一個商業的一個產業你就回歸經濟部然後呢這個你要做仲裁你就從你的這個報告第一頁開始你看你的寫得多漂亮第一頁到第五頁都在喔不對耶第一頁到第六頁六頁半都在講說你怎麼仲裁各行各業這才是你的本務嘛怎麼會是你在管一個\n\n16\n00:06:04,937 --> 00:06:17,782\n管一個多城市傳銷呢所以我也不講報備制或許可制了我覺得新力儲幣啦很單純的就是它是一個行業回歸經濟部經濟部沒有在防幣嗎不是吧\n\n17\n00:06:19,431 --> 00:06:43,980\n好我就三大追問三大的短期行動的要求第一個產業輔導要有效不是只宣導所以請你們公平會審慎評估建立針對業者輔導成效的績效評估指標建立起來吧輔導後的再犯率要有統計所以短期誠信業者的名單制度讓守法者受獎勵違法者受監控第二個\n\n18\n00:06:45,769 --> 00:07:08,332\n產品跟收益結構要透明現行的只要求書面報備但未強制揭露產品價值的比例跟分論模式你知道哪有這個業者說好你政府多管我一點你的這個分認制度要透明你的這個產品比例這都是業者告訴我們立法院的耶\n\n19\n00:07:11,046 --> 00:07:24,610\n這個所以你們不做好那你們又要監理所以這邊請你們建議導入收益結構的公開讓消費者一眼辨明這家公司是賣產品還是拉人頭我所謂拉人頭就是吸金是這個吸金詐騙的這個\n\n20\n00:07:29,091 --> 00:07:46,383\n的怎麼防範這些東西他的組織的下面的延伸是對的去發展這些這個這個船直銷的這些的組織是對的但是只要他透明分論透明那當然很多有人願意投入啊\n\n21\n00:07:47,419 --> 00:08:00,388\n這個是對的但是當你的分論不透明你的監理機制沒有出來的時候沒有揭露這樣透明的時候就會變成有詐騙性的但是如果好的話他是很好的一個產業長富於民吶\n\n22\n00:08:01,789 --> 00:08:27,152\n第三個資訊要可查稽查要可追公平會的網站現在你們只有報備清單沒有違法紀錄的查詢與風險等級的資料要求半個月內推出多層次傳銷透明查詢平台要有這三個介入第一個違法案件類型與次數第二個已受輔導業者的清單第三年度市場規模的變動這是在你這個平台網站當中就建立起來\n\n23\n00:08:27,893 --> 00:08:55,893\n好中長期第一個建立傳銷傳銷產業誠信憑鑒制度由你們主導你喜歡主導就由你來主導吧跟產業的工協會跟學界共同參與作為後續輔導的依據第二個跨部會的產品的稽查常態化你們現在就有做了那只是要常態化將衛福部經濟部納入固定聯合稽查的體系特別針對健康食品美容產品等高風險項目第三個強化資訊公開透明化\n\n24\n00:08:57,854 --> 00:09:23,388\n推動多層次傳銷白皮書這個一定要做年度報告公開數據輔導成效違法名單好我現在講到這三個你要短中長期三個行動方案三個具體改革好在這邊你回答之前我想到你們現在組織什麼公文會現在什麼都不做你就這個是你監管你把你的這個輔導工作人員交給的傳保費\n\n25\n00:09:25,089 --> 00:09:38,693\n然後呢把這個食品安全或美容就交給經濟部的商標局或者是衛福部的這個相關的主管機關然後你們就不做了然後就辦活動你們叫做只有仲裁罰人家錢之外然後就辦國內外的國際論壇\n\n26\n00:09:41,537 --> 00:10:06,139\n就這樣子而已這樣對嗎好請簡單回應謝謝跟委員說明非常謝謝委員的指教委員今天所提出來這些建議特別是關於一些資訊介入的部分其實是符合我們在報備制度底下要資訊要公開透明讓傳銷商有機會在加入之前能夠試所以這部分我們會審慎的來評估該如何做其實委員點出的這些問題我們在個案當中都有在做比如說\n\n27\n00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:17,161\n處分違法再加重這本來在公平在公正加重法裡面我們就可以加重那當然委員建議是希望把這個東西整合變成是一個具體的統合性的資料這邊我們回去會再\n\n28\n00:10:18,632 --> 00:10:40,885\n會再參酌然後看後續怎麼做那中長期的部分有些要建立一些比較這些比較大的一個改變的制度這個因為多聲音傳銷基本上我們在因為是一個傳銷的手段所以應該還是一個私部門的契約行為所以我們會去了解一下這種建議是不是會過度介入到傳銷商跟傳銷事業彼此之間的契約的約定的自由\n\n29\n00:10:41,625 --> 00:11:02,783\n不會現在都是你們做我只是把它建立制度而已啊參考國外的制度來建立而已啊誠信平建制度好的給它獎勵啊不好的就是要給它退場啊那它的再範率就是你這個不好的一個指標之一啊稽查常態化你們現在就有做啊只是常態化不要擾民但是你又有一個制度在\n\n30\n00:11:03,524 --> 00:11:14,746\n那第三個強化公開透明啊你的白皮書要出來啊你既然要管就管得像樣啊白皮書就要出來啊怎麼新立啊好謝謝謝謝林大煥委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4434\t28962\t好有請主委我們請主委好主委本期還是就傳實銷的部分跟你來做個討論本期的主張傳實銷業的業管應該是經濟部而非你們公平會這樣的主張訴求一直不變但在這個訴求達到\n31404\t51221\t達成之前我覺得你們還是連監理的工作都做得不好所以如何讓船直銷賣得開心買得安心你們現在你的簡報第8頁寫得多漂亮那我就要告訴你你的監理是多麼的弱化那所以強化產業輔導與產品管理才是你們讓船直銷\n51941\t81376\t能够这个产业健全卖得开心买得安心好在多层次传销当中在台湾已经不是小众市场你们简报也讲很清楚今年的年报多层次传销登陆的是2183家参与的人是312万人可见这个产业牵动的是经济活动消费安全跟社会信任传之销在台湾长期就是一个尖锂灰色带的产业我讲尖锂灰色带是对你们的\n81896\t104509\t批評他牽涉的經濟發展也影響消費安全過去三年的裁罰只有92件罰還不到3000萬好這樣的績效你來看真的實質的消費爭議跟民刑事的案件超過2400件這都是你們公平會跟消保會我彙整的結果你才裁罰92件\n106630\t126068\t然後滑板不到三千欸實質民行是跟消費爭議欸 兩千四百件欸你看你的監理力道在哪裡 講這簡報寫在那上頭 我都替你看嚴好 我要強調的 傳承消費不能無底線的劣幣驅逐良幣\n126989\t152245\t你們現在就簡單講就是公平會放任無良的公司吸金詐騙所以我點出你現在的問題我就就你現在的監理來講第一個你的輔導流於宣傳宣導的活動缺乏實質追蹤跟評鑑機制第二個產品跟收益結構的風險監控是有斷層的你的資訊揭露不透明這是本席的創建嗎也沒有\n152905\t170651\t這個其實是放諸國際上他們所做的好我們來看看你們的業務報告我怎麼說你們的監理力道不足你們是標準的準司法機關欸仲裁是你的工具欸這樣的情況之下你的監理力道還相當不足你們公平會的業務報告怎麼講呢\n171471\t198941\t好啊這剛才你的簡報第8月就講了辦每年辦理傳銷法令宣導活動與法務部調查局合作防範吸金詐騙有做啊第二個呢主動啊函報這個食品資料給衛生主管機關第三個與衛生主管機關進行聯合稽查跟違法移送第四個真的你也有這個簡化這個作業程序提升效率可是呢來\n200542\t229357\t你們現在所做的這三件事情第一個 你就缺乏產業輔導成效的量化評估跟風險預警指標了產業輔導你既然要種柴又要輔導 我就不知道你怎麼做好 那既然你要做 就要做得像樣所以呢 你們在這個 你既然輔導之後沒績效所以我又要求你要量化評估跟風險預警所以呢 你沒有三沒有 你沒有連度自律的評鑑報告\n230097\t245164\t沒有違規再犯率的統計沒有頁著透明度的分析所以簡單講你們就重宣導清雞茶這個辦活動活動多數據少這就是你們現在的狀態好第二個\n247326\t267421\t這個國際比較這個根據呢這個國際呢我就好吧你們喜歡報備就報備吧但是人家的報備制也做得有模有樣啊自律跟透明好根據OECD韓國的這個公正交易委員會跟美國的FTC聯邦貿易委員會的做法美國怎麼做他要求傳銷企業公開銷售收益結構\n268422\t292115\t你的銷售收入必須高於招募收入這樣才是真的賣產品啊當你的招募是多於銷售的時候變成什麼你在拉人頭啊就有吸金詐騙的嫌疑啊好那韓國怎麼做這些都是屬於報備的喔韓國他建立起誠信業者的評鑑系統評比企業經營的透明度跟公佈值結果日本做什麼\n292815\t312098\t實施再犯加重罰凡制 再犯我怎麼加重罰凡 而且人家是每三年重審報備內容 也是報備 人家三年審一次就可以管得那麼好你們每年都在做結果呢 吸金詐騙層出不窮 十萬塊可以成立一家公司倒了再換 草永遠都查不到\n313079\t334672\t劣幣驅逐良幣嘛所以這些做法這邊建議的都是這些國家都是報備他做的是強化資訊兼容跟事後管理你要做就做像樣所以就比照監理升級的模式現在就是讓你的報備制變成有責任的管理制這是你現在過度的做法本席還是強調商業就是商業\n336092\t363877\t那這個管理 你是仲裁就是仲裁所以既然這個傳銷業它就是一個商業的一個產業你就回歸經濟部然後呢 這個你要做仲裁你就從你的這個報告第一頁開始 你看你的寫得多漂亮第一頁到第五頁都在 喔不對耶第一頁到第六頁六頁半都在講說你怎麼仲裁各行各業這才是你的本務嘛怎麼會是你在管一個\n364937\t377782\t管一個多城市傳銷呢所以我也不講報備制或許可制了我覺得新力儲幣啦很單純的就是它是一個行業回歸經濟部經濟部沒有在防幣嗎不是吧\n379431\t403980\t好 我就三大追問 三大的短期行動的要求第一個 產業輔導要有效 不是只宣導所以請你們公平會審慎評估建立針對業者輔導成效的績效評估指標建立起來吧輔導後的再犯率要有統計所以短期誠信業者的名單 制度讓守法者受獎勵違法者受監控第二個\n405769\t428332\t產品跟收益結構要透明現行的只要求書面報備但未強制揭露產品價值的比例跟分論模式你知道哪有這個業者說好你政府多管我一點你的這個分認制度要透明你的這個產品比例這都是業者告訴我們立法院的耶\n431046\t444610\t這個所以你們不做好那你們又要監理所以這邊請你們建議導入收益結構的公開讓消費者一眼辨明這家公司是賣產品還是拉人頭我所謂拉人頭就是吸金是這個吸金詐騙的這個\n449091\t466383\t的怎麼防範這些東西他的組織的下面的延伸是對的去發展這些這個這個船直銷的這些的組織是對的但是只要他透明分論透明那當然很多有人願意投入啊\n467419\t480388\t這個是對的 但是當你的分論不透明你的監理機制沒有出來的時候沒有揭露這樣透明的時候就會變成有詐騙性的 但是如果好的話他是很好的一個產業長富於民吶\n481789\t507152\t第三個 資訊要可查 稽查要可追公平會的網站 現在你們只有報備清單沒有違法紀錄的查詢與風險等級的資料要求半個月內推出多層次傳銷透明查詢平台要有這三個介入 第一個 違法案件類型與次數第二個 已受輔導業者的清單第三 年度市場規模的變動這是在你這個平台 網站當中就建立起來\n507893\t535893\t好中長期第一個建立傳銷傳銷產業誠信憑鑒制度由你們主導你喜歡主導就由你來主導吧跟產業的工協會跟學界共同參與作為後續輔導的依據第二個跨部會的產品的稽查常態化你們現在就有做了那只是要常態化將衛福部經濟部納入固定聯合稽查的體系特別針對健康食品美容產品等高風險項目第三個強化資訊公開透明化\n537854\t563388\t推動多層次傳銷白皮書這個一定要做年度報告公開數據輔導成效違法名單好我現在講到這三個你要短中長期三個行動方案三個具體改革好在這邊你回答之前我想到你們現在組織什麼公文會現在什麼都不做你就這個是你監管你把你的這個輔導工作人員交給的傳保費\n565089\t578693\t然後呢把這個食品安全或美容就交給經濟部的商標局或者是衛福部的這個相關的主管機關然後你們就不做了然後就辦活動你們叫做只有仲裁罰人家錢之外然後就辦國內外的國際論壇\n581537\t606139\t就這樣子而已這樣對嗎好 請簡單回應 謝謝跟委員說明非常謝謝委員的指教委員今天所提出來這些建議特別是關於一些資訊介入的部分其實是符合我們在報備制度底下要資訊要公開透明讓傳銷商有機會在加入之前能夠試所以這部分我們會審慎的來評估該如何做其實委員點出的這些問題我們在個案當中都有在做比如說\n607040\t617161\t處分違法再加重這本來在公平在公正加重法裡面我們就可以加重那當然委員建議是希望把這個東西整合變成是一個具體的統合性的資料這邊我們回去會再\n618632\t640885\t會再參酌然後看後續怎麼做那中長期的部分有些要建立一些比較這些比較大的一個改變的制度這個因為多聲音傳銷基本上我們在因為是一個傳銷的手段所以應該還是一個私部門的契約行為所以我們會去了解一下這種建議是不是會過度介入到傳銷商跟傳銷事業彼此之間的契約的約定的自由\n641625\t662783\t不會 現在都是你們做 我只是把它建立制度而已啊參考國外的制度來建立而已啊誠信平建制度 好的給它獎勵啊不好的就是要給它退場啊那它的再範率就是你這個不好的一個指標之一啊稽查常態化你們現在就有做啊只是常態化 不要擾民但是你又有一個制度在\n663524\t674746\t那第三個強化公開透明啊你的白皮書要出來啊你既然要管就管得像樣啊白皮書就要出來啊怎麼新立啊好 謝謝謝謝林大煥委員\n","txt":"好有請主委我們請主委好主委本期還是就傳實銷的部分跟你來做個討論本期的主張傳實銷業的業管應該是經濟部而非你們公平會這樣的主張訴求一直不變但在這個訴求達到\n達成之前我覺得你們還是連監理的工作都做得不好所以如何讓船直銷賣得開心買得安心你們現在你的簡報第8頁寫得多漂亮那我就要告訴你你的監理是多麼的弱化那所以強化產業輔導與產品管理才是你們讓船直銷\n能够这个产业健全卖得开心买得安心好在多层次传销当中在台湾已经不是小众市场你们简报也讲很清楚今年的年报多层次传销登陆的是2183家参与的人是312万人可见这个产业牵动的是经济活动消费安全跟社会信任传之销在台湾长期就是一个尖锂灰色带的产业我讲尖锂灰色带是对你们的\n批評他牽涉的經濟發展也影響消費安全過去三年的裁罰只有92件罰還不到3000萬好這樣的績效你來看真的實質的消費爭議跟民刑事的案件超過2400件這都是你們公平會跟消保會我彙整的結果你才裁罰92件\n然後滑板不到三千欸實質民行是跟消費爭議欸 兩千四百件欸你看你的監理力道在哪裡 講這簡報寫在那上頭 我都替你看嚴好 我要強調的 傳承消費不能無底線的劣幣驅逐良幣\n你們現在就簡單講就是公平會放任無良的公司吸金詐騙所以我點出你現在的問題我就就你現在的監理來講第一個你的輔導流於宣傳宣導的活動缺乏實質追蹤跟評鑑機制第二個產品跟收益結構的風險監控是有斷層的你的資訊揭露不透明這是本席的創建嗎也沒有\n這個其實是放諸國際上他們所做的好我們來看看你們的業務報告我怎麼說你們的監理力道不足你們是標準的準司法機關欸仲裁是你的工具欸這樣的情況之下你的監理力道還相當不足你們公平會的業務報告怎麼講呢\n好啊這剛才你的簡報第8月就講了辦每年辦理傳銷法令宣導活動與法務部調查局合作防範吸金詐騙有做啊第二個呢主動啊函報這個食品資料給衛生主管機關第三個與衛生主管機關進行聯合稽查跟違法移送第四個真的你也有這個簡化這個作業程序提升效率可是呢來\n你們現在所做的這三件事情第一個 你就缺乏產業輔導成效的量化評估跟風險預警指標了產業輔導你既然要種柴又要輔導 我就不知道你怎麼做好 那既然你要做 就要做得像樣所以呢 你們在這個 你既然輔導之後沒績效所以我又要求你要量化評估跟風險預警所以呢 你沒有三沒有 你沒有連度自律的評鑑報告\n沒有違規再犯率的統計沒有頁著透明度的分析所以簡單講你們就重宣導清雞茶這個辦活動活動多數據少這就是你們現在的狀態好第二個\n這個國際比較這個根據呢這個國際呢我就好吧你們喜歡報備就報備吧但是人家的報備制也做得有模有樣啊自律跟透明好根據OECD韓國的這個公正交易委員會跟美國的FTC聯邦貿易委員會的做法美國怎麼做他要求傳銷企業公開銷售收益結構\n你的銷售收入必須高於招募收入這樣才是真的賣產品啊當你的招募是多於銷售的時候變成什麼你在拉人頭啊就有吸金詐騙的嫌疑啊好那韓國怎麼做這些都是屬於報備的喔韓國他建立起誠信業者的評鑑系統評比企業經營的透明度跟公佈值結果日本做什麼\n實施再犯加重罰凡制 再犯我怎麼加重罰凡 而且人家是每三年重審報備內容 也是報備 人家三年審一次就可以管得那麼好你們每年都在做結果呢 吸金詐騙層出不窮 十萬塊可以成立一家公司倒了再換 草永遠都查不到\n劣幣驅逐良幣嘛所以這些做法這邊建議的都是這些國家都是報備他做的是強化資訊兼容跟事後管理你要做就做像樣所以就比照監理升級的模式現在就是讓你的報備制變成有責任的管理制這是你現在過度的做法本席還是強調商業就是商業\n那這個管理 你是仲裁就是仲裁所以既然這個傳銷業它就是一個商業的一個產業你就回歸經濟部然後呢 這個你要做仲裁你就從你的這個報告第一頁開始 你看你的寫得多漂亮第一頁到第五頁都在 喔不對耶第一頁到第六頁六頁半都在講說你怎麼仲裁各行各業這才是你的本務嘛怎麼會是你在管一個\n管一個多城市傳銷呢所以我也不講報備制或許可制了我覺得新力儲幣啦很單純的就是它是一個行業回歸經濟部經濟部沒有在防幣嗎不是吧\n好 我就三大追問 三大的短期行動的要求第一個 產業輔導要有效 不是只宣導所以請你們公平會審慎評估建立針對業者輔導成效的績效評估指標建立起來吧輔導後的再犯率要有統計所以短期誠信業者的名單 制度讓守法者受獎勵違法者受監控第二個\n產品跟收益結構要透明現行的只要求書面報備但未強制揭露產品價值的比例跟分論模式你知道哪有這個業者說好你政府多管我一點你的這個分認制度要透明你的這個產品比例這都是業者告訴我們立法院的耶\n這個所以你們不做好那你們又要監理所以這邊請你們建議導入收益結構的公開讓消費者一眼辨明這家公司是賣產品還是拉人頭我所謂拉人頭就是吸金是這個吸金詐騙的這個\n的怎麼防範這些東西他的組織的下面的延伸是對的去發展這些這個這個船直銷的這些的組織是對的但是只要他透明分論透明那當然很多有人願意投入啊\n這個是對的 但是當你的分論不透明你的監理機制沒有出來的時候沒有揭露這樣透明的時候就會變成有詐騙性的 但是如果好的話他是很好的一個產業長富於民吶\n第三個 資訊要可查 稽查要可追公平會的網站 現在你們只有報備清單沒有違法紀錄的查詢與風險等級的資料要求半個月內推出多層次傳銷透明查詢平台要有這三個介入 第一個 違法案件類型與次數第二個 已受輔導業者的清單第三 年度市場規模的變動這是在你這個平台 網站當中就建立起來\n好中長期第一個建立傳銷傳銷產業誠信憑鑒制度由你們主導你喜歡主導就由你來主導吧跟產業的工協會跟學界共同參與作為後續輔導的依據第二個跨部會的產品的稽查常態化你們現在就有做了那只是要常態化將衛福部經濟部納入固定聯合稽查的體系特別針對健康食品美容產品等高風險項目第三個強化資訊公開透明化\n推動多層次傳銷白皮書這個一定要做年度報告公開數據輔導成效違法名單好我現在講到這三個你要短中長期三個行動方案三個具體改革好在這邊你回答之前我想到你們現在組織什麼公文會現在什麼都不做你就這個是你監管你把你的這個輔導工作人員交給的傳保費\n然後呢把這個食品安全或美容就交給經濟部的商標局或者是衛福部的這個相關的主管機關然後你們就不做了然後就辦活動你們叫做只有仲裁罰人家錢之外然後就辦國內外的國際論壇\n就這樣子而已這樣對嗎好 請簡單回應 謝謝跟委員說明非常謝謝委員的指教委員今天所提出來這些建議特別是關於一些資訊介入的部分其實是符合我們在報備制度底下要資訊要公開透明讓傳銷商有機會在加入之前能夠試所以這部分我們會審慎的來評估該如何做其實委員點出的這些問題我們在個案當中都有在做比如說\n處分違法再加重這本來在公平在公正加重法裡面我們就可以加重那當然委員建議是希望把這個東西整合變成是一個具體的統合性的資料這邊我們回去會再\n會再參酌然後看後續怎麼做那中長期的部分有些要建立一些比較這些比較大的一個改變的制度這個因為多聲音傳銷基本上我們在因為是一個傳銷的手段所以應該還是一個私部門的契約行為所以我們會去了解一下這種建議是不是會過度介入到傳銷商跟傳銷事業彼此之間的契約的約定的自由\n不會 現在都是你們做 我只是把它建立制度而已啊參考國外的制度來建立而已啊誠信平建制度 好的給它獎勵啊不好的就是要給它退場啊那它的再範率就是你這個不好的一個指標之一啊稽查常態化你們現在就有做啊只是常態化 不要擾民但是你又有一個制度在\n那第三個強化公開透明啊你的白皮書要出來啊你既然要管就管得像樣啊白皮書就要出來啊怎麼新立啊好 謝謝謝謝林大煥委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.434 --> 00:28.962\n好有請主委我們請主委好主委本期還是就傳實銷的部分跟你來做個討論本期的主張傳實銷業的業管應該是經濟部而非你們公平會這樣的主張訴求一直不變但在這個訴求達到\n\n00:31.404 --> 00:51.221\n達成之前我覺得你們還是連監理的工作都做得不好所以如何讓船直銷賣得開心買得安心你們現在你的簡報第8頁寫得多漂亮那我就要告訴你你的監理是多麼的弱化那所以強化產業輔導與產品管理才是你們讓船直銷\n\n00:51.941 --> 01:21.376\n能够这个产业健全卖得开心买得安心好在多层次传销当中在台湾已经不是小众市场你们简报也讲很清楚今年的年报多层次传销登陆的是2183家参与的人是312万人可见这个产业牵动的是经济活动消费安全跟社会信任传之销在台湾长期就是一个尖锂灰色带的产业我讲尖锂灰色带是对你们的\n\n01:21.896 --> 01:44.509\n批評他牽涉的經濟發展也影響消費安全過去三年的裁罰只有92件罰還不到3000萬好這樣的績效你來看真的實質的消費爭議跟民刑事的案件超過2400件這都是你們公平會跟消保會我彙整的結果你才裁罰92件\n\n01:46.630 --> 02:06.068\n然後滑板不到三千欸實質民行是跟消費爭議欸兩千四百件欸你看你的監理力道在哪裡講這簡報寫在那上頭我都替你看嚴好我要強調的傳承消費不能無底線的劣幣驅逐良幣\n\n02:06.989 --> 02:32.245\n你們現在就簡單講就是公平會放任無良的公司吸金詐騙所以我點出你現在的問題我就就你現在的監理來講第一個你的輔導流於宣傳宣導的活動缺乏實質追蹤跟評鑑機制第二個產品跟收益結構的風險監控是有斷層的你的資訊揭露不透明這是本席的創建嗎也沒有\n\n02:32.905 --> 02:50.651\n這個其實是放諸國際上他們所做的好我們來看看你們的業務報告我怎麼說你們的監理力道不足你們是標準的準司法機關欸仲裁是你的工具欸這樣的情況之下你的監理力道還相當不足你們公平會的業務報告怎麼講呢\n\n02:51.471 --> 03:18.941\n好啊這剛才你的簡報第8月就講了辦每年辦理傳銷法令宣導活動與法務部調查局合作防範吸金詐騙有做啊第二個呢主動啊函報這個食品資料給衛生主管機關第三個與衛生主管機關進行聯合稽查跟違法移送第四個真的你也有這個簡化這個作業程序提升效率可是呢來\n\n03:20.542 --> 03:49.357\n你們現在所做的這三件事情第一個你就缺乏產業輔導成效的量化評估跟風險預警指標了產業輔導你既然要種柴又要輔導我就不知道你怎麼做好那既然你要做就要做得像樣所以呢你們在這個你既然輔導之後沒績效所以我又要求你要量化評估跟風險預警所以呢你沒有三沒有你沒有連度自律的評鑑報告\n\n03:50.097 --> 04:05.164\n沒有違規再犯率的統計沒有頁著透明度的分析所以簡單講你們就重宣導清雞茶這個辦活動活動多數據少這就是你們現在的狀態好第二個\n\n04:07.326 --> 04:27.421\n這個國際比較這個根據呢這個國際呢我就好吧你們喜歡報備就報備吧但是人家的報備制也做得有模有樣啊自律跟透明好根據OECD韓國的這個公正交易委員會跟美國的FTC聯邦貿易委員會的做法美國怎麼做他要求傳銷企業公開銷售收益結構\n\n04:28.422 --> 04:52.115\n你的銷售收入必須高於招募收入這樣才是真的賣產品啊當你的招募是多於銷售的時候變成什麼你在拉人頭啊就有吸金詐騙的嫌疑啊好那韓國怎麼做這些都是屬於報備的喔韓國他建立起誠信業者的評鑑系統評比企業經營的透明度跟公佈值結果日本做什麼\n\n04:52.815 --> 05:12.098\n實施再犯加重罰凡制再犯我怎麼加重罰凡而且人家是每三年重審報備內容也是報備人家三年審一次就可以管得那麼好你們每年都在做結果呢吸金詐騙層出不窮十萬塊可以成立一家公司倒了再換草永遠都查不到\n\n05:13.079 --> 05:34.672\n劣幣驅逐良幣嘛所以這些做法這邊建議的都是這些國家都是報備他做的是強化資訊兼容跟事後管理你要做就做像樣所以就比照監理升級的模式現在就是讓你的報備制變成有責任的管理制這是你現在過度的做法本席還是強調商業就是商業\n\n05:36.092 --> 06:03.877\n那這個管理你是仲裁就是仲裁所以既然這個傳銷業它就是一個商業的一個產業你就回歸經濟部然後呢這個你要做仲裁你就從你的這個報告第一頁開始你看你的寫得多漂亮第一頁到第五頁都在喔不對耶第一頁到第六頁六頁半都在講說你怎麼仲裁各行各業這才是你的本務嘛怎麼會是你在管一個\n\n06:04.937 --> 06:17.782\n管一個多城市傳銷呢所以我也不講報備制或許可制了我覺得新力儲幣啦很單純的就是它是一個行業回歸經濟部經濟部沒有在防幣嗎不是吧\n\n06:19.431 --> 06:43.980\n好我就三大追問三大的短期行動的要求第一個產業輔導要有效不是只宣導所以請你們公平會審慎評估建立針對業者輔導成效的績效評估指標建立起來吧輔導後的再犯率要有統計所以短期誠信業者的名單制度讓守法者受獎勵違法者受監控第二個\n\n06:45.769 --> 07:08.332\n產品跟收益結構要透明現行的只要求書面報備但未強制揭露產品價值的比例跟分論模式你知道哪有這個業者說好你政府多管我一點你的這個分認制度要透明你的這個產品比例這都是業者告訴我們立法院的耶\n\n07:11.046 --> 07:24.610\n這個所以你們不做好那你們又要監理所以這邊請你們建議導入收益結構的公開讓消費者一眼辨明這家公司是賣產品還是拉人頭我所謂拉人頭就是吸金是這個吸金詐騙的這個\n\n07:29.091 --> 07:46.383\n的怎麼防範這些東西他的組織的下面的延伸是對的去發展這些這個這個船直銷的這些的組織是對的但是只要他透明分論透明那當然很多有人願意投入啊\n\n07:47.419 --> 08:00.388\n這個是對的但是當你的分論不透明你的監理機制沒有出來的時候沒有揭露這樣透明的時候就會變成有詐騙性的但是如果好的話他是很好的一個產業長富於民吶\n\n08:01.789 --> 08:27.152\n第三個資訊要可查稽查要可追公平會的網站現在你們只有報備清單沒有違法紀錄的查詢與風險等級的資料要求半個月內推出多層次傳銷透明查詢平台要有這三個介入第一個違法案件類型與次數第二個已受輔導業者的清單第三年度市場規模的變動這是在你這個平台網站當中就建立起來\n\n08:27.893 --> 08:55.893\n好中長期第一個建立傳銷傳銷產業誠信憑鑒制度由你們主導你喜歡主導就由你來主導吧跟產業的工協會跟學界共同參與作為後續輔導的依據第二個跨部會的產品的稽查常態化你們現在就有做了那只是要常態化將衛福部經濟部納入固定聯合稽查的體系特別針對健康食品美容產品等高風險項目第三個強化資訊公開透明化\n\n08:57.854 --> 09:23.388\n推動多層次傳銷白皮書這個一定要做年度報告公開數據輔導成效違法名單好我現在講到這三個你要短中長期三個行動方案三個具體改革好在這邊你回答之前我想到你們現在組織什麼公文會現在什麼都不做你就這個是你監管你把你的這個輔導工作人員交給的傳保費\n\n09:25.089 --> 09:38.693\n然後呢把這個食品安全或美容就交給經濟部的商標局或者是衛福部的這個相關的主管機關然後你們就不做了然後就辦活動你們叫做只有仲裁罰人家錢之外然後就辦國內外的國際論壇\n\n09:41.537 --> 10:06.139\n就這樣子而已這樣對嗎好請簡單回應謝謝跟委員說明非常謝謝委員的指教委員今天所提出來這些建議特別是關於一些資訊介入的部分其實是符合我們在報備制度底下要資訊要公開透明讓傳銷商有機會在加入之前能夠試所以這部分我們會審慎的來評估該如何做其實委員點出的這些問題我們在個案當中都有在做比如說\n\n10:07.040 --> 10:17.161\n處分違法再加重這本來在公平在公正加重法裡面我們就可以加重那當然委員建議是希望把這個東西整合變成是一個具體的統合性的資料這邊我們回去會再\n\n10:18.632 --> 10:40.885\n會再參酌然後看後續怎麼做那中長期的部分有些要建立一些比較這些比較大的一個改變的制度這個因為多聲音傳銷基本上我們在因為是一個傳銷的手段所以應該還是一個私部門的契約行為所以我們會去了解一下這種建議是不是會過度介入到傳銷商跟傳銷事業彼此之間的契約的約定的自由\n\n10:41.625 --> 11:02.783\n不會現在都是你們做我只是把它建立制度而已啊參考國外的制度來建立而已啊誠信平建制度好的給它獎勵啊不好的就是要給它退場啊那它的再範率就是你這個不好的一個指標之一啊稽查常態化你們現在就有做啊只是常態化不要擾民但是你又有一個制度在\n\n11:03.524 --> 11:14.746\n那第三個強化公開透明啊你的白皮書要出來啊你既然要管就管得像樣啊白皮書就要出來啊怎麼新立啊好謝謝謝謝林大煥委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.434,"end":28.962,"text":"好有請主委我們請主委好主委本期還是就傳實銷的部分跟你來做個討論本期的主張傳實銷業的業管應該是經濟部而非你們公平會這樣的主張訴求一直不變但在這個訴求達到"},{"start":31.404,"end":51.221,"text":"達成之前我覺得你們還是連監理的工作都做得不好所以如何讓船直銷賣得開心買得安心你們現在你的簡報第8頁寫得多漂亮那我就要告訴你你的監理是多麼的弱化那所以強化產業輔導與產品管理才是你們讓船直銷"},{"start":51.941,"end":81.376,"text":"能够这个产业健全卖得开心买得安心好在多层次传销当中在台湾已经不是小众市场你们简报也讲很清楚今年的年报多层次传销登陆的是2183家参与的人是312万人可见这个产业牵动的是经济活动消费安全跟社会信任传之销在台湾长期就是一个尖锂灰色带的产业我讲尖锂灰色带是对你们的"},{"start":81.896,"end":104.509,"text":"批評他牽涉的經濟發展也影響消費安全過去三年的裁罰只有92件罰還不到3000萬好這樣的績效你來看真的實質的消費爭議跟民刑事的案件超過2400件這都是你們公平會跟消保會我彙整的結果你才裁罰92件"},{"start":106.63,"end":126.068,"text":"然後滑板不到三千欸實質民行是跟消費爭議欸 兩千四百件欸你看你的監理力道在哪裡 講這簡報寫在那上頭 我都替你看嚴好 我要強調的 傳承消費不能無底線的劣幣驅逐良幣"},{"start":126.989,"end":152.245,"text":"你們現在就簡單講就是公平會放任無良的公司吸金詐騙所以我點出你現在的問題我就就你現在的監理來講第一個你的輔導流於宣傳宣導的活動缺乏實質追蹤跟評鑑機制第二個產品跟收益結構的風險監控是有斷層的你的資訊揭露不透明這是本席的創建嗎也沒有"},{"start":152.905,"end":170.651,"text":"這個其實是放諸國際上他們所做的好我們來看看你們的業務報告我怎麼說你們的監理力道不足你們是標準的準司法機關欸仲裁是你的工具欸這樣的情況之下你的監理力道還相當不足你們公平會的業務報告怎麼講呢"},{"start":171.471,"end":198.941,"text":"好啊這剛才你的簡報第8月就講了辦每年辦理傳銷法令宣導活動與法務部調查局合作防範吸金詐騙有做啊第二個呢主動啊函報這個食品資料給衛生主管機關第三個與衛生主管機關進行聯合稽查跟違法移送第四個真的你也有這個簡化這個作業程序提升效率可是呢來"},{"start":200.542,"end":229.357,"text":"你們現在所做的這三件事情第一個 你就缺乏產業輔導成效的量化評估跟風險預警指標了產業輔導你既然要種柴又要輔導 我就不知道你怎麼做好 那既然你要做 就要做得像樣所以呢 你們在這個 你既然輔導之後沒績效所以我又要求你要量化評估跟風險預警所以呢 你沒有三沒有 你沒有連度自律的評鑑報告"},{"start":230.097,"end":245.164,"text":"沒有違規再犯率的統計沒有頁著透明度的分析所以簡單講你們就重宣導清雞茶這個辦活動活動多數據少這就是你們現在的狀態好第二個"},{"start":247.326,"end":267.421,"text":"這個國際比較這個根據呢這個國際呢我就好吧你們喜歡報備就報備吧但是人家的報備制也做得有模有樣啊自律跟透明好根據OECD韓國的這個公正交易委員會跟美國的FTC聯邦貿易委員會的做法美國怎麼做他要求傳銷企業公開銷售收益結構"},{"start":268.422,"end":292.115,"text":"你的銷售收入必須高於招募收入這樣才是真的賣產品啊當你的招募是多於銷售的時候變成什麼你在拉人頭啊就有吸金詐騙的嫌疑啊好那韓國怎麼做這些都是屬於報備的喔韓國他建立起誠信業者的評鑑系統評比企業經營的透明度跟公佈值結果日本做什麼"},{"start":292.815,"end":312.098,"text":"實施再犯加重罰凡制 再犯我怎麼加重罰凡 而且人家是每三年重審報備內容 也是報備 人家三年審一次就可以管得那麼好你們每年都在做結果呢 吸金詐騙層出不窮 十萬塊可以成立一家公司倒了再換 草永遠都查不到"},{"start":313.079,"end":334.672,"text":"劣幣驅逐良幣嘛所以這些做法這邊建議的都是這些國家都是報備他做的是強化資訊兼容跟事後管理你要做就做像樣所以就比照監理升級的模式現在就是讓你的報備制變成有責任的管理制這是你現在過度的做法本席還是強調商業就是商業"},{"start":336.092,"end":363.877,"text":"那這個管理 你是仲裁就是仲裁所以既然這個傳銷業它就是一個商業的一個產業你就回歸經濟部然後呢 這個你要做仲裁你就從你的這個報告第一頁開始 你看你的寫得多漂亮第一頁到第五頁都在 喔不對耶第一頁到第六頁六頁半都在講說你怎麼仲裁各行各業這才是你的本務嘛怎麼會是你在管一個"},{"start":364.937,"end":377.782,"text":"管一個多城市傳銷呢所以我也不講報備制或許可制了我覺得新力儲幣啦很單純的就是它是一個行業回歸經濟部經濟部沒有在防幣嗎不是吧"},{"start":379.431,"end":403.98,"text":"好 我就三大追問 三大的短期行動的要求第一個 產業輔導要有效 不是只宣導所以請你們公平會審慎評估建立針對業者輔導成效的績效評估指標建立起來吧輔導後的再犯率要有統計所以短期誠信業者的名單 制度讓守法者受獎勵違法者受監控第二個"},{"start":405.769,"end":428.332,"text":"產品跟收益結構要透明現行的只要求書面報備但未強制揭露產品價值的比例跟分論模式你知道哪有這個業者說好你政府多管我一點你的這個分認制度要透明你的這個產品比例這都是業者告訴我們立法院的耶"},{"start":431.046,"end":444.61,"text":"這個所以你們不做好那你們又要監理所以這邊請你們建議導入收益結構的公開讓消費者一眼辨明這家公司是賣產品還是拉人頭我所謂拉人頭就是吸金是這個吸金詐騙的這個"},{"start":449.091,"end":466.383,"text":"的怎麼防範這些東西他的組織的下面的延伸是對的去發展這些這個這個船直銷的這些的組織是對的但是只要他透明分論透明那當然很多有人願意投入啊"},{"start":467.419,"end":480.388,"text":"這個是對的 但是當你的分論不透明你的監理機制沒有出來的時候沒有揭露這樣透明的時候就會變成有詐騙性的 但是如果好的話他是很好的一個產業長富於民吶"},{"start":481.789,"end":507.152,"text":"第三個 資訊要可查 稽查要可追公平會的網站 現在你們只有報備清單沒有違法紀錄的查詢與風險等級的資料要求半個月內推出多層次傳銷透明查詢平台要有這三個介入 第一個 違法案件類型與次數第二個 已受輔導業者的清單第三 年度市場規模的變動這是在你這個平台 網站當中就建立起來"},{"start":507.893,"end":535.893,"text":"好中長期第一個建立傳銷傳銷產業誠信憑鑒制度由你們主導你喜歡主導就由你來主導吧跟產業的工協會跟學界共同參與作為後續輔導的依據第二個跨部會的產品的稽查常態化你們現在就有做了那只是要常態化將衛福部經濟部納入固定聯合稽查的體系特別針對健康食品美容產品等高風險項目第三個強化資訊公開透明化"},{"start":537.854,"end":563.388,"text":"推動多層次傳銷白皮書這個一定要做年度報告公開數據輔導成效違法名單好我現在講到這三個你要短中長期三個行動方案三個具體改革好在這邊你回答之前我想到你們現在組織什麼公文會現在什麼都不做你就這個是你監管你把你的這個輔導工作人員交給的傳保費"},{"start":565.089,"end":578.693,"text":"然後呢把這個食品安全或美容就交給經濟部的商標局或者是衛福部的這個相關的主管機關然後你們就不做了然後就辦活動你們叫做只有仲裁罰人家錢之外然後就辦國內外的國際論壇"},{"start":581.537,"end":606.139,"text":"就這樣子而已這樣對嗎好 請簡單回應 謝謝跟委員說明非常謝謝委員的指教委員今天所提出來這些建議特別是關於一些資訊介入的部分其實是符合我們在報備制度底下要資訊要公開透明讓傳銷商有機會在加入之前能夠試所以這部分我們會審慎的來評估該如何做其實委員點出的這些問題我們在個案當中都有在做比如說"},{"start":607.04,"end":617.161,"text":"處分違法再加重這本來在公平在公正加重法裡面我們就可以加重那當然委員建議是希望把這個東西整合變成是一個具體的統合性的資料這邊我們回去會再"},{"start":618.632,"end":640.885,"text":"會再參酌然後看後續怎麼做那中長期的部分有些要建立一些比較這些比較大的一個改變的制度這個因為多聲音傳銷基本上我們在因為是一個傳銷的手段所以應該還是一個私部門的契約行為所以我們會去了解一下這種建議是不是會過度介入到傳銷商跟傳銷事業彼此之間的契約的約定的自由"},{"start":641.625,"end":662.783,"text":"不會 現在都是你們做 我只是把它建立制度而已啊參考國外的制度來建立而已啊誠信平建制度 好的給它獎勵啊不好的就是要給它退場啊那它的再範率就是你這個不好的一個指標之一啊稽查常態化你們現在就有做啊只是常態化 不要擾民但是你又有一個制度在"},{"start":663.524,"end":674.746,"text":"那第三個強化公開透明啊你的白皮書要出來啊你既然要管就管得像樣啊白皮書就要出來啊怎麼新立啊好 謝謝謝謝林大煥委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":58,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時18分）有請主委。"],["主席：我們請主委。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：林委員早。"],["林委員岱樺：主委，本席還是要就傳直銷的部分跟你來做個討論，本席主張傳直銷業的業管應該是經濟部，而非你們公平會，這樣的主張訴求一直不變，但在這個訴求達成之前，我覺得你們還是連監理的工作都做得不好，所以如何讓傳直銷賣得開心、買得安心？在你的簡報第8頁寫得多漂亮，我就要告訴你，你的監理是多麼地弱化。","強化產業輔導與產品管理才能夠讓傳直銷這個產業健全，賣得開心、買得安心，多層次傳銷在臺灣已經不是小眾市場，在你的簡報也講得很清楚，根據公平會今年的年報，多層次傳銷登錄的是2,183家，參與人數是312萬人，可見這個產業牽動的是經濟活動、消費安全與社會信任。傳直銷在臺灣長期就是一個監理灰色帶的產業，我講監理灰色帶是對你們的批評，其牽涉經濟發展也影響消費安全，過去3年的裁罰只有92件，罰鍰不到3,000萬，以這樣的績效來看，實質消費爭議與民刑事案件超過2,400件，這都是公平會與消保會的資料，我彙整的結果，你才裁罰92件，罰鍰不到3,000萬，實質民刑事和消費爭議有2,400件，你看你的監理力道在哪裡？簡報寫在那上頭，我都替你汗顏！","我要強調的是傳直銷不能無底線的劣幣驅逐良幣，簡單講，就是公平會放任無良的公司吸金詐騙，所以我點出你現在的問題，就現在的監理來講：第一個，輔導流於宣導活動，缺乏實質追蹤與評鑑機制；第二個，產品與收益結構的風險監控是有斷層的，資訊揭露不透明。這是本席的創建嗎？也沒有，這個其實是放諸國際上所做的。來看你們的業務報告，我怎麼會說你們的監理力道不足？你們是標準的準司法機關，仲裁是你的工具，在這樣的情況之下，你的監理力道還相當不足！公平會的業務報告怎麼講呢？剛才你的簡報第8頁就講了，每年辦理傳銷法令宣導活動，與法務部調查局合作防範吸金詐騙，有做啊！第二個，主動函報食品資料給衛生主管機關；第三個，與衛生主管機關進行聯合稽查與違法移送；第四個，你也有簡化作業程序，提升效率。可是你們現在所做的這三件事情，第一個，缺乏產業輔導成效的量化評估與風險預警指標，你既然要仲裁又要輔導，我就不知道你要怎麼做。既然你要做就要做得像樣，既然輔導之後沒績效，所以我要求你要量化評估與風險預警，所以你是三沒有，沒有年度自律評鑑報告、沒有違規再犯率統計、沒有業者透明度分析，所以簡單講，你們是重宣導、輕稽查；活動多、數據少，這就是你們現在的狀態。","第二個是國際比較，你們喜歡報備就報備，但是人家的報備制也做得有模有樣，自律與透明。根據OECD、韓國公正交易委員會及美國FTC（聯邦貿易委員會）的作法，美國怎麼做？他要求傳銷企業公開銷售收益結構，銷售收入必須高於招募收入，這樣才是真的賣產品，當你的招募是多於銷售的時候，變成什麼？你在拉人頭啊！就會有吸金詐騙的嫌疑。韓國怎麼做？這些都是屬於報備的喔，韓國建立起誠信業者的評鑑系統，評比企業經營的透明度跟公布值結果。日本做什麼？實施再犯加重罰鍰制，再犯就加重罰鍰，而且人家是每三年重審報備內容。也是報備制，人家三年審一次就可以管得那麼好，你們每年都在做，結果呢？吸金詐騙層出不窮，10萬塊可以成立一家公司，倒了再換，永遠都查不到，劣幣驅逐良幣嘛！所以這些作法這邊建議的都是，這些國家都是採報備制，他做的是強化資訊揭露跟事後管理。你要做就做得像樣，所以就比照監理升級的模式，現在就是讓你的報備制變成有責任的管理制，這是你現在過渡的作法。本席還是強調商業就是商業，是仲裁就是仲裁，既然傳銷業就是一個商業的產業，就回歸經濟部。然後你要做仲裁就從你的報告第一頁開始，你看你寫得多漂亮，第一頁到第五頁都在……喔，不對耶，第一頁到第六頁共六頁半都在講你怎麼仲裁各行各業，這才是你的本務嘛！怎麼會是你在管一個多層次傳銷呢？所以我也不講報備制或者許可制了，我覺得興利除弊，很單純的就是它是一個行業，回歸經濟部，經濟部沒有在防弊嗎？不是吧。","我有三大追問、三大短期行動要求：第一個，產業輔導要有效，不是只宣導，所以請你們公平會審慎評估，建立針對業者輔導成效的績效評估指標，輔導後的再犯率要有統計，所以短期內要建立誠信業者名單制度，讓守法者受獎勵，違法者受監控。","第二個，產品跟收益結構要透明，現行只要求書面報備，但未強制揭露產品價值的比例跟分潤模式。你知道哪有業者說，好，政府多管我一點，你的分潤制度要透明、你的產品比例，這都是業者告訴我們立法院的耶！這個是你們不做。好，你們又要監理，所以這邊請你們建議導入收益結構的公開，讓消費者一眼辨明，這家公司是賣產品還是拉人頭。我所謂的「拉人頭」其實就是吸金詐騙，怎麼防範這些東西？他的組織下面的延伸是對的，去發展傳（直）銷的這些組織是對的，只要他分潤透明，當然有很多人願意投入，這個是對的。但是當他的分潤不透明，你的監理機制沒有出來的時候，資訊揭露不透明的時候，就會變成有詐騙嫌疑，但是如果好的話，他是很好的一個產業，可謂藏富於民。","第三個，資訊要可查，稽查要可追。現在你們公平會的網站上只有報備清單，沒有違法紀錄的查詢與風險等級的資料，本席要求半個月內推出多層次傳銷透明查詢平臺，要揭露這三個：第一個，違法案件類型與次數；第二個，已受輔導業者的清單；第三，年度市場規模的變動，這是在這個平臺網站當中就要建立起來的。","就中、長期而言，第一個，建立傳銷產業誠信評鑑制度，由你們主導。你喜歡主導，就由你來主導吧。跟產業的公協會跟學界共同參與，作為後續輔導的依據。第二個，跨部會產品稽查常態化，你們現在就有做了，只是要常態化，將衛福部、經濟部納入固定聯合稽查的體系，特別針對健康食品、美容產品等高風險項目。第三個，強化資訊公開透明化，這個一定要做，推動「多層次傳銷白皮書」年度報告，公開數據、輔導成效、違法名單。","我現在講到的這三個，短、中、長期的三個行動方案，三個具體改革。在你回答之前，我想到你們現在的組織怎麼，公平會現在什麼都不做。這個是你監管，你把你的輔導工作交給了傳保會，然後把食品安全或美容就交給經濟部的商標局或者是衛福部的相關主管機關，你們就不做了，然後就辦活動。你們只有仲裁罰人家錢之外，然後就辦國內外的國際論壇，就這樣子而已，這樣對嗎？請你簡單回應，謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員說明，非常謝謝委員的指教，委員今天所提出來的這些建議，特別是關於一些資訊揭露的部分，其實是符合我們在報備制度底下資訊要公開透明，讓傳銷商有機會在加入之前能夠得知，所以這部分我們會審慎的來評估該如何做。其實委員點出的這些問題，我們在個案當中都有在做，比如處分違法再加重，這本來在公平交易法裡面我們就可以加重。當然委員的建議是希望把這個東西整合，變成是一個具體的、統合性的資料，這一點我們回去會再參酌，然後看後續怎麼做。中、長期的部分，有些要建立一些比較大的改變的制度，因為多層次傳銷基本上是一個傳銷的手段，所以應該還是一個私部門的契約行為，所以我們會去了解一下，這種建議是不是會過度介入到傳銷商跟傳銷事業彼此之間契約約定的自由。"],["林委員岱樺：不會，現在都是你們做，我只是把他建立制度而已，參考國外的制度來建立而已啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對，因為有時候要……"],["林委員岱樺：誠信評鑑制度，好的給他獎勵啊……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是、是、是，這個我們會考慮來做。"],["林委員岱樺：不好的就是要給他退場啊，他的再犯率就是這個不好的指標之一。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["林委員岱樺：稽查常態化你們現在就有做，只是常態化不要擾民……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["林委員岱樺：但是你又有一個制度在。第三個強化公開透明，你的白皮書要出來，既然要管就管得像樣，白皮書就要出來，怎麼興利啊？謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["主席：謝謝林岱樺委員，謝謝主委。","我們現在請邱議瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-4","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","陳超明","鄭正鈐","黃國昌","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","蔡易餘"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00002"}}}