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\"end\": 576.252, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"整\", \"start\": 576.252, \"end\": 576.272, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,792 --> 00:00:03,214\n謝謝主席我們請林佳龍部長來部長請\n\n2\n00:00:11,742 --> 00:00:39,514\n部長好我想大家都很關注台灣的護照的能見度跟實用度因為畢竟在台灣環境特殊所以我們的邦交國能夠維持其實我覺得那就是好事了外交是一個延續性的所以過去幾年我們斷掉了八個邦交國這個也不能算在部長的頭上不過我們要看到的是免簽國的部分\n\n3\n00:00:40,755 --> 00:01:05,934\n免簽國它其實也是代表了我們的一種外交國力我想要請問一下部長從去年到今年我們的免簽國下降了幾個呢免簽的形式當然有包括免簽、電子簽或是落地簽等等我們是有增加至於說有一些內部的我剛講的不同形式的改變那都可能持續發生中你說增加那增加多少\n\n4\n00:01:06,667 --> 00:01:25,421\n我想以泰國然後菲律賓到這個汶萊都是有增加又有減少之後總體來說你是增加還是減少呢因為我們可以看到近期根據這個呢他們都有在做就是這個HenleyPassportIndex裡面呢他有針對世界的護照去做排名\n\n5\n00:01:26,241 --> 00:01:50,118\n我們的護照當然穩定在第37名可是如果對比去年2024年的143個免簽國今年是下滑到了136個所以減少的是7個所以增增減減之下最後的結果其實它是減少的所以我們可以看到的是在這個統計圖上面你可以看我們看下一張照片\n\n6\n00:01:51,680 --> 00:02:19,140\n我們可以看到我們雖然說穩定的排名看起來是在35、34左右但是這個上面的數字是名次在總體的算出來的名次就是Henley他們的計算PasswordIndex裡面你可以看到的是我們這幾年來最高峰大概我們在2015、16年左右的時候其實到29名\n\n7\n00:02:20,481 --> 00:02:40,575\n但到現在呢慢慢慢慢逐漸掉到了37名我想問一下就是在這個免簽國的部分呢部長您對於免簽國的下降尤其是至近年來的下降那您的看法是什麼以及有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠在總體的提升我們免簽國的國家數\n\n8\n00:02:42,247 --> 00:02:56,337\n好我們當然持續努力包括我剛剛講東南亞有三個國家在一年內給我們免簽因為它現在有一些是涉及到他們的路徑跟有一些資料的整併所以電子系統化就是這個時候\n\n9\n00:02:58,658 --> 00:03:20,173\n原來他們在整合的過程裡面中共也確實也有些施壓那有些國家因為整病的過程裡面當然有啊不然的話我們推展外交怎麼會辛苦呢那我想說那個總量是這個樣子沒有錯可是它裡面有不同的類別我是不是請我的同仁來說因為免簽有包括就是我們這個總數包括落地簽電子簽還有完全的免簽\n\n10\n00:03:22,655 --> 00:03:30,064\n但它總體來說我只要確認一個數字就好了好不好因為時間也不夠我後面還有所以我們免簽證是110個總體來說我們是否是從免簽國從143然後下降變成136總體而言的數字來局長說明一下\n\n11\n00:03:42,219 --> 00:04:07,475\n跟委員報告我們這個從民國97年但我就問去年到今年啦不要從民國97年我才出生沒多久免簽國有110個落地簽證32個電子簽有43個總共175個國家跟地區你說的是什麼時候到目前10月目前10月那所以說我們的免簽國你是把所有的都算進來那去年呢\n\n12\n00:04:10,495 --> 00:04:32,294\n我們事實上最近這一年半年來去年我沒有問你半年的事情去年我去年同期跟今年同期去做比較才有意義啊你拿半年前跟我比較做什麼如果你不是很確定的話你回去再查資料給我好不好我看這樣子我聽了很辛苦其實總數是差不多但是它的類別有變化\n\n13\n00:04:32,954 --> 00:04:55,368\n類別有變化但數字可能也有增減那您剛講的像是泰國等等的我們予以肯定但總數上面來說的話我們還是希望他是不減反增的這一點再請這個外交部回去做努力那我也必須要提醒喔如果不是很確定的話就就不要硬講回去再給我們一些這個回覆是OK的好不好那再來呢我要詢問的是這個\n\n14\n00:04:57,269 --> 00:05:11,545\n駐美代表當然是對台灣而言蠻重要的一個職位所有的一些發言某種程度來說也是國內外洞見觀瞻我們的駐美的代表余大雷大使\n\n15\n00:05:12,105 --> 00:05:29,730\n那我不曉得這個部長有沒有看到他說呢台灣被要求國防支出要達到GDPT的10%但是余大雷這個大使他直接講說花多少錢不是問題啊那個我想問一下部長您的看法是什麼\n\n16\n00:05:31,127 --> 00:05:48,138\n這個下標有一點偏了啦他完整的話應該不是這個樣子他完整的話是怎麼樣子那您說說當然美國也有他們的人提到說希望我們增加我知道我只問我們的大使怎麼說的嘛我們大使有沒有說花多少錢不是問題啊\n\n17\n00:05:50,141 --> 00:05:57,665\n就是我們要展現自我防衛的決心跟能力這個是重點因為不是10%就是好或不好其實美方也有一些人認為其實我們好好紮紮實實的能夠增加到5%其實這裡面涉及到我們精實我們的戰力國防改革兵役延長全社會防禦任性哇這一些都是相關的這不是\n\n18\n00:06:16,235 --> 00:06:28,988\n不是市場喊價幾%的問題是啊就不是市場喊價所以他在講說花多少錢不是問題他的背後是這個意思不是說好像越花越多越好不是這個意思那請問是不是要去做一些更正呢\n\n19\n00:06:29,741 --> 00:06:47,732\n那我請那個大使應該詳細如果是有出入應該去說明你剛剛問說他到底怎麼說說有出入嘛對不對好那我唸給你聽他怎麼說的呀他說呢余大磊表示喔台灣呢正提正朝提高國防預算的這個方向前進喔等等的然後中間沒有什麼這個OK的\n\n20\n00:06:49,773 --> 00:07:00,103\n他說台灣要做好一切準備抵禦可能的侵略展現出這個決心這邊都OK喔但他下一句話說花多少錢不是一個問題他確實這樣講啊跟部長您剛剛所說不一樣他確實就是這麼說的所以您剛剛講的這不是花錢多少的問題是我們怎麼去增加國防能力的跟決心的問題\n\n21\n00:07:09,332 --> 00:07:24,910\n所以它不是叫做花多少錢不是問題叫做說我們要去增加我們的國防的國力一側兩岸之間的安全因為你這樣子的一個說法會讓大家有所誤會因為我們看一下下一張投影片我算出來了\n\n22\n00:07:25,831 --> 00:07:52,779\n如果今天增加10%的GDP的話呢那其實是佔中央政府總預算的93%我們的行政院的院長也說了現階段是沒有能力的所以作為駐美代表駐美代表不應該傳遞出錯誤的訊息因為像現在余大雷大使的這樣子的一個說法在非常多的媒體上面都是做同樣的報導\n\n23\n00:07:53,999 --> 00:08:09,230\n所以如果大使覺得他說的話不是這個意思外交部覺得他說的話不是這個意思有更好的說法的話那應該要做出更正做出調整而不是呢讓大家看到了以為說哇那花多少不是問題的話那10%\n\n24\n00:08:11,891 --> 00:08:36,107\n20%也可以啊30%也可以啊這都是花錢嘛所以不是說我們花錢解決的就不是問題我們在整體的都是納稅人的錢啊所以我不曉得是於大雷大使他過去在這個花費上面的這個不精準然後就是買什麼沙發什麼都特別貴這些事情讓他覺得說哎呀國防支出花多少錢也不是問題我不曉得他是不是這個心態但是\n\n25\n00:08:37,569 --> 00:08:49,325\n這都是不管今天是3%5%10%都是台灣的納稅錢我們要為了國防要提升我們相關的預算但是我們也要在整體總預算的合適的範圍裡面量力而為\n\n26\n00:08:54,151 --> 00:09:07,978\n所以我覺得這才是一個正確跟完整的說法否則大使的說法跟院長的說法根本就也不一樣啊那所以我希望說外交部這邊可以回去提醒我們的駐美代表他所說的一切洞見觀瞻當然百分之十的\n\n27\n00:09:11,059 --> 00:09:29,677\n國防預算他就直接講了一個花多少錢不是問題一句話了事的時候他會造成後續大家的誤解跟其他的風波所以這個部分是不是我們可以請外交部回去再跟這個大使溝通而且必要的調整外交部這邊也必須要對外做清楚的說明可以嗎\n\n28\n00:09:30,748 --> 00:09:36,272\n好因為那個下標有出入啦不過那個委員的意思我知道我一定會請他要避免誤會讓他說清楚請他做一個調整謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1792\t3214\t謝謝主席 我們請林佳龍部長來 部長請\n11742\t39514\t部長好我想大家都很關注台灣的護照的能見度跟實用度因為畢竟在台灣環境特殊所以我們的邦交國能夠維持其實我覺得那就是好事了外交是一個延續性的所以過去幾年我們斷掉了八個邦交國這個也不能算在部長的頭上不過我們要看到的是免簽國的部分\n40755\t65934\t免簽國它其實也是代表了我們的一種外交國力我想要請問一下部長從去年到今年我們的免簽國下降了幾個呢免簽的形式當然有包括免簽、電子簽或是落地簽等等我們是有增加至於說有一些內部的我剛講的不同形式的改變那都可能持續發生中你說增加 那增加多少\n66667\t85421\t我想以泰國然後菲律賓到這個汶萊都是有增加又有減少之後總體來說你是增加還是減少呢因為我們可以看到近期根據這個呢他們都有在做就是這個Henley Passport Index裡面呢他有針對世界的護照去做排名\n86241\t110118\t我們的護照當然穩定在第37名可是如果對比去年2024年的143個免簽國今年是下滑到了136個所以減少的是7個所以增增減減之下最後的結果其實它是減少的所以我們可以看到的是在這個統計圖上面你可以看我們看下一張照片\n111680\t139140\t我們可以看到我們雖然說穩定的排名看起來是在35、34左右但是這個上面的數字是名次在總體的算出來的名次就是Henley他們的計算Password Index裡面你可以看到的是我們這幾年來最高峰大概我們在2015、16年左右的時候其實到29名\n140481\t160575\t但到現在呢慢慢慢慢逐漸掉到了37名我想問一下就是在這個免簽國的部分呢部長您對於免簽國的下降尤其是至近年來的下降那您的看法是什麼以及有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠在總體的提升我們免簽國的國家數\n162247\t176337\t好 我們當然持續努力包括我剛剛講東南亞有三個國家在一年內給我們免簽因為它現在有一些是涉及到他們的路徑跟有一些資料的整併所以電子系統化就是這個時候\n178658\t200173\t原來他們在整合的過程裡面 中共也確實也有些施壓那有些國家因為整病的過程裡面當然有啊 不然的話我們推展外交怎麼會辛苦呢那我想說那個總量是這個樣子沒有錯 可是它裡面有不同的類別我是不是請我的同仁來說 因為免簽有包括就是我們這個總數包括落地簽 電子簽 還有完全的免簽\n202655\t210064\t但它總體來說我只要確認一個數字就好了好不好因為時間也不夠我後面還有所以我們免簽證是110個總體來說我們是否是從免簽國從143然後下降變成136總體而言的數字來 局長說明一下\n222219\t247475\t跟委員報告我們這個從民國97年但我就問去年到今年啦不要從民國97年我才出生沒多久免簽國有110個落地簽證32個電子簽有43個總共175個國家跟地區你說的是什麼時候到目前10月目前10月那所以說我們的免簽國你是把所有的都算進來那去年呢\n250495\t272294\t我們事實上最近這一年半年來去年我沒有問你半年的事情去年我去年同期跟今年同期去做比較才有意義啊你拿半年前跟我比較做什麼如果你不是很確定的話你回去再查資料給我好不好我看這樣子我聽了很辛苦其實總數是差不多但是它的類別有變化\n272954\t295368\t類別有變化但數字可能也有增減那您剛講的像是泰國等等的我們予以肯定但總數上面來說的話我們還是希望他是不減反增的這一點再請這個外交部回去做努力那我也必須要提醒喔如果不是很確定的話就就不要硬講回去再給我們一些這個回覆是OK的好不好那再來呢我要詢問的是這個\n297269\t311545\t駐美代表當然是對台灣而言蠻重要的一個職位所有的一些發言某種程度來說也是國內外洞見觀瞻我們的駐美的代表余大雷大使\n312105\t329730\t那我不曉得這個部長有沒有看到他說呢台灣被要求國防支出要達到GDPT的10%但是余大雷這個大使他直接講說花多少錢不是問題啊那個我想問一下部長您的看法是什麼\n331127\t348138\t這個下標有一點偏了啦他完整的話應該不是這個樣子他完整的話是怎麼樣子那您說說當然美國也有他們的人提到說希望我們增加我知道我只問我們的大使怎麼說的嘛我們大使有沒有說花多少錢不是問題啊\n350141\t357665\t就是我們要展現自我防衛的決心跟能力這個是重點因為不是10%就是好或不好其實美方也有一些人認為其實我們好好紮紮實實的能夠增加到5%其實這裡面涉及到我們精實我們的戰力國防改革兵役延長全社會防禦任性哇這一些都是相關的這不是\n376235\t388988\t不是市場喊價幾%的問題是啊 就不是市場喊價所以他在講說花多少錢不是問題他的背後是這個意思不是說好像越花越多越好不是這個意思那請問是不是要去做一些更正呢\n389741\t407732\t那我請那個大使應該詳細如果是有出入應該去說明你剛剛問說他到底怎麼說說有出入嘛對不對好那我唸給你聽他怎麼說的呀他說呢余大磊表示喔台灣呢正提正朝提高國防預算的這個方向前進喔等等的然後中間沒有什麼這個OK的\n409773\t420103\t他說台灣要做好一切準備抵禦可能的侵略展現出這個決心這邊都OK喔但他下一句話說花多少錢不是一個問題他確實這樣講啊跟部長您剛剛所說不一樣他確實就是這麼說的所以您剛剛講的這不是花錢多少的問題是我們怎麼去增加國防能力的跟決心的問題\n429332\t444910\t所以它不是叫做花多少錢不是問題叫做說我們要去增加我們的國防的國力一側兩岸之間的安全因為你這樣子的一個說法會讓大家有所誤會因為我們看一下下一張投影片我算出來了\n445831\t472779\t如果今天增加10%的GDP的話呢那其實是佔中央政府總預算的93%我們的行政院的院長也說了現階段是沒有能力的所以作為駐美代表駐美代表不應該傳遞出錯誤的訊息因為像現在余大雷大使的這樣子的一個說法在非常多的媒體上面都是做同樣的報導\n473999\t489230\t所以如果大使覺得他說的話不是這個意思外交部覺得他說的話不是這個意思有更好的說法的話那應該要做出更正做出調整而不是呢讓大家看到了以為說哇那花多少不是問題的話那10%\n491891\t516107\t20%也可以啊 30%也可以啊這都是花錢嘛所以不是說我們花錢解決的就不是問題我們在整體的都是納稅人的錢啊所以我不曉得是於大雷大使他過去在這個花費上面的這個不精準然後就是買什麼沙發什麼都特別貴這些事情讓他覺得說哎呀國防支出花多少錢也不是問題我不曉得他是不是這個心態但是\n517569\t529325\t這都是不管今天是3% 5% 10%都是台灣的納稅錢我們要為了國防要提升我們相關的預算但是我們也要在整體總預算的合適的範圍裡面量力而為\n534151\t547978\t所以我覺得這才是一個正確跟完整的說法否則大使的說法跟院長的說法根本就也不一樣啊那所以我希望說外交部這邊可以回去提醒我們的駐美代表他所說的一切洞見觀瞻當然百分之十的\n551059\t569677\t國防預算他就直接講了一個花多少錢不是問題一句話了事的時候他會造成後續大家的誤解跟其他的風波所以這個部分是不是我們可以請外交部回去再跟這個大使溝通而且必要的調整外交部這邊也必須要對外做清楚的說明可以嗎\n570748\t576272\t好 因為那個下標有出入啦不過那個委員的意思我知道我一定會請他要避免誤會 讓他說清楚請他做一個調整 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們請林佳龍部長來 部長請\n部長好我想大家都很關注台灣的護照的能見度跟實用度因為畢竟在台灣環境特殊所以我們的邦交國能夠維持其實我覺得那就是好事了外交是一個延續性的所以過去幾年我們斷掉了八個邦交國這個也不能算在部長的頭上不過我們要看到的是免簽國的部分\n免簽國它其實也是代表了我們的一種外交國力我想要請問一下部長從去年到今年我們的免簽國下降了幾個呢免簽的形式當然有包括免簽、電子簽或是落地簽等等我們是有增加至於說有一些內部的我剛講的不同形式的改變那都可能持續發生中你說增加 那增加多少\n我想以泰國然後菲律賓到這個汶萊都是有增加又有減少之後總體來說你是增加還是減少呢因為我們可以看到近期根據這個呢他們都有在做就是這個Henley Passport Index裡面呢他有針對世界的護照去做排名\n我們的護照當然穩定在第37名可是如果對比去年2024年的143個免簽國今年是下滑到了136個所以減少的是7個所以增增減減之下最後的結果其實它是減少的所以我們可以看到的是在這個統計圖上面你可以看我們看下一張照片\n我們可以看到我們雖然說穩定的排名看起來是在35、34左右但是這個上面的數字是名次在總體的算出來的名次就是Henley他們的計算Password Index裡面你可以看到的是我們這幾年來最高峰大概我們在2015、16年左右的時候其實到29名\n但到現在呢慢慢慢慢逐漸掉到了37名我想問一下就是在這個免簽國的部分呢部長您對於免簽國的下降尤其是至近年來的下降那您的看法是什麼以及有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠在總體的提升我們免簽國的國家數\n好 我們當然持續努力包括我剛剛講東南亞有三個國家在一年內給我們免簽因為它現在有一些是涉及到他們的路徑跟有一些資料的整併所以電子系統化就是這個時候\n原來他們在整合的過程裡面 中共也確實也有些施壓那有些國家因為整病的過程裡面當然有啊 不然的話我們推展外交怎麼會辛苦呢那我想說那個總量是這個樣子沒有錯 可是它裡面有不同的類別我是不是請我的同仁來說 因為免簽有包括就是我們這個總數包括落地簽 電子簽 還有完全的免簽\n但它總體來說我只要確認一個數字就好了好不好因為時間也不夠我後面還有所以我們免簽證是110個總體來說我們是否是從免簽國從143然後下降變成136總體而言的數字來 局長說明一下\n跟委員報告我們這個從民國97年但我就問去年到今年啦不要從民國97年我才出生沒多久免簽國有110個落地簽證32個電子簽有43個總共175個國家跟地區你說的是什麼時候到目前10月目前10月那所以說我們的免簽國你是把所有的都算進來那去年呢\n我們事實上最近這一年半年來去年我沒有問你半年的事情去年我去年同期跟今年同期去做比較才有意義啊你拿半年前跟我比較做什麼如果你不是很確定的話你回去再查資料給我好不好我看這樣子我聽了很辛苦其實總數是差不多但是它的類別有變化\n類別有變化但數字可能也有增減那您剛講的像是泰國等等的我們予以肯定但總數上面來說的話我們還是希望他是不減反增的這一點再請這個外交部回去做努力那我也必須要提醒喔如果不是很確定的話就就不要硬講回去再給我們一些這個回覆是OK的好不好那再來呢我要詢問的是這個\n駐美代表當然是對台灣而言蠻重要的一個職位所有的一些發言某種程度來說也是國內外洞見觀瞻我們的駐美的代表余大雷大使\n那我不曉得這個部長有沒有看到他說呢台灣被要求國防支出要達到GDPT的10%但是余大雷這個大使他直接講說花多少錢不是問題啊那個我想問一下部長您的看法是什麼\n這個下標有一點偏了啦他完整的話應該不是這個樣子他完整的話是怎麼樣子那您說說當然美國也有他們的人提到說希望我們增加我知道我只問我們的大使怎麼說的嘛我們大使有沒有說花多少錢不是問題啊\n就是我們要展現自我防衛的決心跟能力這個是重點因為不是10%就是好或不好其實美方也有一些人認為其實我們好好紮紮實實的能夠增加到5%其實這裡面涉及到我們精實我們的戰力國防改革兵役延長全社會防禦任性哇這一些都是相關的這不是\n不是市場喊價幾%的問題是啊 就不是市場喊價所以他在講說花多少錢不是問題他的背後是這個意思不是說好像越花越多越好不是這個意思那請問是不是要去做一些更正呢\n那我請那個大使應該詳細如果是有出入應該去說明你剛剛問說他到底怎麼說說有出入嘛對不對好那我唸給你聽他怎麼說的呀他說呢余大磊表示喔台灣呢正提正朝提高國防預算的這個方向前進喔等等的然後中間沒有什麼這個OK的\n他說台灣要做好一切準備抵禦可能的侵略展現出這個決心這邊都OK喔但他下一句話說花多少錢不是一個問題他確實這樣講啊跟部長您剛剛所說不一樣他確實就是這麼說的所以您剛剛講的這不是花錢多少的問題是我們怎麼去增加國防能力的跟決心的問題\n所以它不是叫做花多少錢不是問題叫做說我們要去增加我們的國防的國力一側兩岸之間的安全因為你這樣子的一個說法會讓大家有所誤會因為我們看一下下一張投影片我算出來了\n如果今天增加10%的GDP的話呢那其實是佔中央政府總預算的93%我們的行政院的院長也說了現階段是沒有能力的所以作為駐美代表駐美代表不應該傳遞出錯誤的訊息因為像現在余大雷大使的這樣子的一個說法在非常多的媒體上面都是做同樣的報導\n所以如果大使覺得他說的話不是這個意思外交部覺得他說的話不是這個意思有更好的說法的話那應該要做出更正做出調整而不是呢讓大家看到了以為說哇那花多少不是問題的話那10%\n20%也可以啊 30%也可以啊這都是花錢嘛所以不是說我們花錢解決的就不是問題我們在整體的都是納稅人的錢啊所以我不曉得是於大雷大使他過去在這個花費上面的這個不精準然後就是買什麼沙發什麼都特別貴這些事情讓他覺得說哎呀國防支出花多少錢也不是問題我不曉得他是不是這個心態但是\n這都是不管今天是3% 5% 10%都是台灣的納稅錢我們要為了國防要提升我們相關的預算但是我們也要在整體總預算的合適的範圍裡面量力而為\n所以我覺得這才是一個正確跟完整的說法否則大使的說法跟院長的說法根本就也不一樣啊那所以我希望說外交部這邊可以回去提醒我們的駐美代表他所說的一切洞見觀瞻當然百分之十的\n國防預算他就直接講了一個花多少錢不是問題一句話了事的時候他會造成後續大家的誤解跟其他的風波所以這個部分是不是我們可以請外交部回去再跟這個大使溝通而且必要的調整外交部這邊也必須要對外做清楚的說明可以嗎\n好 因為那個下標有出入啦不過那個委員的意思我知道我一定會請他要避免誤會 讓他說清楚請他做一個調整 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.792 --> 00:03.214\n謝謝主席我們請林佳龍部長來部長請\n\n00:11.742 --> 00:39.514\n部長好我想大家都很關注台灣的護照的能見度跟實用度因為畢竟在台灣環境特殊所以我們的邦交國能夠維持其實我覺得那就是好事了外交是一個延續性的所以過去幾年我們斷掉了八個邦交國這個也不能算在部長的頭上不過我們要看到的是免簽國的部分\n\n00:40.755 --> 01:05.934\n免簽國它其實也是代表了我們的一種外交國力我想要請問一下部長從去年到今年我們的免簽國下降了幾個呢免簽的形式當然有包括免簽、電子簽或是落地簽等等我們是有增加至於說有一些內部的我剛講的不同形式的改變那都可能持續發生中你說增加那增加多少\n\n01:06.667 --> 01:25.421\n我想以泰國然後菲律賓到這個汶萊都是有增加又有減少之後總體來說你是增加還是減少呢因為我們可以看到近期根據這個呢他們都有在做就是這個HenleyPassportIndex裡面呢他有針對世界的護照去做排名\n\n01:26.241 --> 01:50.118\n我們的護照當然穩定在第37名可是如果對比去年2024年的143個免簽國今年是下滑到了136個所以減少的是7個所以增增減減之下最後的結果其實它是減少的所以我們可以看到的是在這個統計圖上面你可以看我們看下一張照片\n\n01:51.680 --> 02:19.140\n我們可以看到我們雖然說穩定的排名看起來是在35、34左右但是這個上面的數字是名次在總體的算出來的名次就是Henley他們的計算PasswordIndex裡面你可以看到的是我們這幾年來最高峰大概我們在2015、16年左右的時候其實到29名\n\n02:20.481 --> 02:40.575\n但到現在呢慢慢慢慢逐漸掉到了37名我想問一下就是在這個免簽國的部分呢部長您對於免簽國的下降尤其是至近年來的下降那您的看法是什麼以及有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠在總體的提升我們免簽國的國家數\n\n02:42.247 --> 02:56.337\n好我們當然持續努力包括我剛剛講東南亞有三個國家在一年內給我們免簽因為它現在有一些是涉及到他們的路徑跟有一些資料的整併所以電子系統化就是這個時候\n\n02:58.658 --> 03:20.173\n原來他們在整合的過程裡面中共也確實也有些施壓那有些國家因為整病的過程裡面當然有啊不然的話我們推展外交怎麼會辛苦呢那我想說那個總量是這個樣子沒有錯可是它裡面有不同的類別我是不是請我的同仁來說因為免簽有包括就是我們這個總數包括落地簽電子簽還有完全的免簽\n\n03:22.655 --> 03:30.064\n但它總體來說我只要確認一個數字就好了好不好因為時間也不夠我後面還有所以我們免簽證是110個總體來說我們是否是從免簽國從143然後下降變成136總體而言的數字來局長說明一下\n\n03:42.219 --> 04:07.475\n跟委員報告我們這個從民國97年但我就問去年到今年啦不要從民國97年我才出生沒多久免簽國有110個落地簽證32個電子簽有43個總共175個國家跟地區你說的是什麼時候到目前10月目前10月那所以說我們的免簽國你是把所有的都算進來那去年呢\n\n04:10.495 --> 04:32.294\n我們事實上最近這一年半年來去年我沒有問你半年的事情去年我去年同期跟今年同期去做比較才有意義啊你拿半年前跟我比較做什麼如果你不是很確定的話你回去再查資料給我好不好我看這樣子我聽了很辛苦其實總數是差不多但是它的類別有變化\n\n04:32.954 --> 04:55.368\n類別有變化但數字可能也有增減那您剛講的像是泰國等等的我們予以肯定但總數上面來說的話我們還是希望他是不減反增的這一點再請這個外交部回去做努力那我也必須要提醒喔如果不是很確定的話就就不要硬講回去再給我們一些這個回覆是OK的好不好那再來呢我要詢問的是這個\n\n04:57.269 --> 05:11.545\n駐美代表當然是對台灣而言蠻重要的一個職位所有的一些發言某種程度來說也是國內外洞見觀瞻我們的駐美的代表余大雷大使\n\n05:12.105 --> 05:29.730\n那我不曉得這個部長有沒有看到他說呢台灣被要求國防支出要達到GDPT的10%但是余大雷這個大使他直接講說花多少錢不是問題啊那個我想問一下部長您的看法是什麼\n\n05:31.127 --> 05:48.138\n這個下標有一點偏了啦他完整的話應該不是這個樣子他完整的話是怎麼樣子那您說說當然美國也有他們的人提到說希望我們增加我知道我只問我們的大使怎麼說的嘛我們大使有沒有說花多少錢不是問題啊\n\n05:50.141 --> 05:57.665\n就是我們要展現自我防衛的決心跟能力這個是重點因為不是10%就是好或不好其實美方也有一些人認為其實我們好好紮紮實實的能夠增加到5%其實這裡面涉及到我們精實我們的戰力國防改革兵役延長全社會防禦任性哇這一些都是相關的這不是\n\n06:16.235 --> 06:28.988\n不是市場喊價幾%的問題是啊就不是市場喊價所以他在講說花多少錢不是問題他的背後是這個意思不是說好像越花越多越好不是這個意思那請問是不是要去做一些更正呢\n\n06:29.741 --> 06:47.732\n那我請那個大使應該詳細如果是有出入應該去說明你剛剛問說他到底怎麼說說有出入嘛對不對好那我唸給你聽他怎麼說的呀他說呢余大磊表示喔台灣呢正提正朝提高國防預算的這個方向前進喔等等的然後中間沒有什麼這個OK的\n\n06:49.773 --> 07:00.103\n他說台灣要做好一切準備抵禦可能的侵略展現出這個決心這邊都OK喔但他下一句話說花多少錢不是一個問題他確實這樣講啊跟部長您剛剛所說不一樣他確實就是這麼說的所以您剛剛講的這不是花錢多少的問題是我們怎麼去增加國防能力的跟決心的問題\n\n07:09.332 --> 07:24.910\n所以它不是叫做花多少錢不是問題叫做說我們要去增加我們的國防的國力一側兩岸之間的安全因為你這樣子的一個說法會讓大家有所誤會因為我們看一下下一張投影片我算出來了\n\n07:25.831 --> 07:52.779\n如果今天增加10%的GDP的話呢那其實是佔中央政府總預算的93%我們的行政院的院長也說了現階段是沒有能力的所以作為駐美代表駐美代表不應該傳遞出錯誤的訊息因為像現在余大雷大使的這樣子的一個說法在非常多的媒體上面都是做同樣的報導\n\n07:53.999 --> 08:09.230\n所以如果大使覺得他說的話不是這個意思外交部覺得他說的話不是這個意思有更好的說法的話那應該要做出更正做出調整而不是呢讓大家看到了以為說哇那花多少不是問題的話那10%\n\n08:11.891 --> 08:36.107\n20%也可以啊30%也可以啊這都是花錢嘛所以不是說我們花錢解決的就不是問題我們在整體的都是納稅人的錢啊所以我不曉得是於大雷大使他過去在這個花費上面的這個不精準然後就是買什麼沙發什麼都特別貴這些事情讓他覺得說哎呀國防支出花多少錢也不是問題我不曉得他是不是這個心態但是\n\n08:37.569 --> 08:49.325\n這都是不管今天是3%5%10%都是台灣的納稅錢我們要為了國防要提升我們相關的預算但是我們也要在整體總預算的合適的範圍裡面量力而為\n\n08:54.151 --> 09:07.978\n所以我覺得這才是一個正確跟完整的說法否則大使的說法跟院長的說法根本就也不一樣啊那所以我希望說外交部這邊可以回去提醒我們的駐美代表他所說的一切洞見觀瞻當然百分之十的\n\n09:11.059 --> 09:29.677\n國防預算他就直接講了一個花多少錢不是問題一句話了事的時候他會造成後續大家的誤解跟其他的風波所以這個部分是不是我們可以請外交部回去再跟這個大使溝通而且必要的調整外交部這邊也必須要對外做清楚的說明可以嗎\n\n09:30.748 --> 09:36.272\n好因為那個下標有出入啦不過那個委員的意思我知道我一定會請他要避免誤會讓他說清楚請他做一個調整謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.792,"end":3.214,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請林佳龍部長來 部長請"},{"start":11.742,"end":39.514,"text":"部長好我想大家都很關注台灣的護照的能見度跟實用度因為畢竟在台灣環境特殊所以我們的邦交國能夠維持其實我覺得那就是好事了外交是一個延續性的所以過去幾年我們斷掉了八個邦交國這個也不能算在部長的頭上不過我們要看到的是免簽國的部分"},{"start":40.755,"end":65.934,"text":"免簽國它其實也是代表了我們的一種外交國力我想要請問一下部長從去年到今年我們的免簽國下降了幾個呢免簽的形式當然有包括免簽、電子簽或是落地簽等等我們是有增加至於說有一些內部的我剛講的不同形式的改變那都可能持續發生中你說增加 那增加多少"},{"start":66.667,"end":85.421,"text":"我想以泰國然後菲律賓到這個汶萊都是有增加又有減少之後總體來說你是增加還是減少呢因為我們可以看到近期根據這個呢他們都有在做就是這個Henley Passport Index裡面呢他有針對世界的護照去做排名"},{"start":86.241,"end":110.118,"text":"我們的護照當然穩定在第37名可是如果對比去年2024年的143個免簽國今年是下滑到了136個所以減少的是7個所以增增減減之下最後的結果其實它是減少的所以我們可以看到的是在這個統計圖上面你可以看我們看下一張照片"},{"start":111.68,"end":139.14,"text":"我們可以看到我們雖然說穩定的排名看起來是在35、34左右但是這個上面的數字是名次在總體的算出來的名次就是Henley他們的計算Password Index裡面你可以看到的是我們這幾年來最高峰大概我們在2015、16年左右的時候其實到29名"},{"start":140.481,"end":160.575,"text":"但到現在呢慢慢慢慢逐漸掉到了37名我想問一下就是在這個免簽國的部分呢部長您對於免簽國的下降尤其是至近年來的下降那您的看法是什麼以及有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠在總體的提升我們免簽國的國家數"},{"start":162.247,"end":176.337,"text":"好 我們當然持續努力包括我剛剛講東南亞有三個國家在一年內給我們免簽因為它現在有一些是涉及到他們的路徑跟有一些資料的整併所以電子系統化就是這個時候"},{"start":178.658,"end":200.173,"text":"原來他們在整合的過程裡面 中共也確實也有些施壓那有些國家因為整病的過程裡面當然有啊 不然的話我們推展外交怎麼會辛苦呢那我想說那個總量是這個樣子沒有錯 可是它裡面有不同的類別我是不是請我的同仁來說 因為免簽有包括就是我們這個總數包括落地簽 電子簽 還有完全的免簽"},{"start":202.655,"end":210.064,"text":"但它總體來說我只要確認一個數字就好了好不好因為時間也不夠我後面還有所以我們免簽證是110個總體來說我們是否是從免簽國從143然後下降變成136總體而言的數字來 局長說明一下"},{"start":222.219,"end":247.475,"text":"跟委員報告我們這個從民國97年但我就問去年到今年啦不要從民國97年我才出生沒多久免簽國有110個落地簽證32個電子簽有43個總共175個國家跟地區你說的是什麼時候到目前10月目前10月那所以說我們的免簽國你是把所有的都算進來那去年呢"},{"start":250.495,"end":272.294,"text":"我們事實上最近這一年半年來去年我沒有問你半年的事情去年我去年同期跟今年同期去做比較才有意義啊你拿半年前跟我比較做什麼如果你不是很確定的話你回去再查資料給我好不好我看這樣子我聽了很辛苦其實總數是差不多但是它的類別有變化"},{"start":272.954,"end":295.368,"text":"類別有變化但數字可能也有增減那您剛講的像是泰國等等的我們予以肯定但總數上面來說的話我們還是希望他是不減反增的這一點再請這個外交部回去做努力那我也必須要提醒喔如果不是很確定的話就就不要硬講回去再給我們一些這個回覆是OK的好不好那再來呢我要詢問的是這個"},{"start":297.269,"end":311.545,"text":"駐美代表當然是對台灣而言蠻重要的一個職位所有的一些發言某種程度來說也是國內外洞見觀瞻我們的駐美的代表余大雷大使"},{"start":312.105,"end":329.73,"text":"那我不曉得這個部長有沒有看到他說呢台灣被要求國防支出要達到GDPT的10%但是余大雷這個大使他直接講說花多少錢不是問題啊那個我想問一下部長您的看法是什麼"},{"start":331.127,"end":348.138,"text":"這個下標有一點偏了啦他完整的話應該不是這個樣子他完整的話是怎麼樣子那您說說當然美國也有他們的人提到說希望我們增加我知道我只問我們的大使怎麼說的嘛我們大使有沒有說花多少錢不是問題啊"},{"start":350.141,"end":357.665,"text":"就是我們要展現自我防衛的決心跟能力這個是重點因為不是10%就是好或不好其實美方也有一些人認為其實我們好好紮紮實實的能夠增加到5%其實這裡面涉及到我們精實我們的戰力國防改革兵役延長全社會防禦任性哇這一些都是相關的這不是"},{"start":376.235,"end":388.988,"text":"不是市場喊價幾%的問題是啊 就不是市場喊價所以他在講說花多少錢不是問題他的背後是這個意思不是說好像越花越多越好不是這個意思那請問是不是要去做一些更正呢"},{"start":389.741,"end":407.732,"text":"那我請那個大使應該詳細如果是有出入應該去說明你剛剛問說他到底怎麼說說有出入嘛對不對好那我唸給你聽他怎麼說的呀他說呢余大磊表示喔台灣呢正提正朝提高國防預算的這個方向前進喔等等的然後中間沒有什麼這個OK的"},{"start":409.773,"end":420.103,"text":"他說台灣要做好一切準備抵禦可能的侵略展現出這個決心這邊都OK喔但他下一句話說花多少錢不是一個問題他確實這樣講啊跟部長您剛剛所說不一樣他確實就是這麼說的所以您剛剛講的這不是花錢多少的問題是我們怎麼去增加國防能力的跟決心的問題"},{"start":429.332,"end":444.91,"text":"所以它不是叫做花多少錢不是問題叫做說我們要去增加我們的國防的國力一側兩岸之間的安全因為你這樣子的一個說法會讓大家有所誤會因為我們看一下下一張投影片我算出來了"},{"start":445.831,"end":472.779,"text":"如果今天增加10%的GDP的話呢那其實是佔中央政府總預算的93%我們的行政院的院長也說了現階段是沒有能力的所以作為駐美代表駐美代表不應該傳遞出錯誤的訊息因為像現在余大雷大使的這樣子的一個說法在非常多的媒體上面都是做同樣的報導"},{"start":473.999,"end":489.23,"text":"所以如果大使覺得他說的話不是這個意思外交部覺得他說的話不是這個意思有更好的說法的話那應該要做出更正做出調整而不是呢讓大家看到了以為說哇那花多少不是問題的話那10%"},{"start":491.891,"end":516.107,"text":"20%也可以啊 30%也可以啊這都是花錢嘛所以不是說我們花錢解決的就不是問題我們在整體的都是納稅人的錢啊所以我不曉得是於大雷大使他過去在這個花費上面的這個不精準然後就是買什麼沙發什麼都特別貴這些事情讓他覺得說哎呀國防支出花多少錢也不是問題我不曉得他是不是這個心態但是"},{"start":517.569,"end":529.325,"text":"這都是不管今天是3% 5% 10%都是台灣的納稅錢我們要為了國防要提升我們相關的預算但是我們也要在整體總預算的合適的範圍裡面量力而為"},{"start":534.151,"end":547.978,"text":"所以我覺得這才是一個正確跟完整的說法否則大使的說法跟院長的說法根本就也不一樣啊那所以我希望說外交部這邊可以回去提醒我們的駐美代表他所說的一切洞見觀瞻當然百分之十的"},{"start":551.059,"end":569.677,"text":"國防預算他就直接講了一個花多少錢不是問題一句話了事的時候他會造成後續大家的誤解跟其他的風波所以這個部分是不是我們可以請外交部回去再跟這個大使溝通而且必要的調整外交部這邊也必須要對外做清楚的說明可以嗎"},{"start":570.748,"end":576.272,"text":"好 因為那個下標有出入啦不過那個委員的意思我知道我一定會請他要避免誤會 讓他說清楚請他做一個調整 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":323,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時14分）謝謝主席，請林佳龍部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["徐委員巧芯：部長好。"],["林部長佳龍：委員好。"],["徐委員巧芯：我想大家都很關注臺灣護照的能見度跟實用度，因為畢竟臺灣環境特殊，所以其實我們的邦交國能夠維持，我覺得就是好事了。外交是延續性的，過去幾年我們斷掉了8個邦交國，這個也不能算在部長的頭上，不過我們要看到的是免簽國的部分，免簽國其實也代表了我們的一種外交國力。我想要請問一下部長，從去年到今年，我們的免簽國下降了幾個？"],["林部長佳龍：免簽的形式當然有包括免簽、電子簽或是落地簽等等，我們是有增加，至於有一些內部的、我剛剛講的不同形式的改變，可能持續發生中。"],["徐委員巧芯：你說增加喔？增加多少？"],["林部長佳龍：我想從泰國、菲律賓到汶萊，都是增加。"],["徐委員巧芯：有增加又有減少，總體來說，你是增加還是減少？因為我們可以看到近期這個Henley Passport Index有針對世界的護照去做排名，他們都有在做，我們的護照當然穩定在第37名，可是如果對比去年2024年的143個免簽國，今年是下滑到了136個，所以減少的是7個，增增減減之下，最後的結果其實是減少的，所以在這個統計圖上面我們可以看到的是，雖然我們穩定的排名看起來是在35、34左右……這個上面的數字是總體算出來的名次，就是Henley Passport Index的計算，你可以看到我們這幾年來最高峰大概在2015、2016年左右，其實有到29名，但到現在逐漸掉到了第37名。我想要問一下免簽國的部分，部長，您對於免簽國的下降，尤其是近年來的下降，您的看法是什麼，以及有沒有什麼樣的措施能夠再總體地提升我們免簽國的國家數？"],["林部長佳龍：我們當然持續努力，包括我剛剛講的東南亞三個國家在一年內給我們免簽，因為現在有一些是涉及到他們的路徑跟一些資料的整併，所以電子系統化在整合的過程裡面，中共也確實有一些施壓，有些國家因為整併的過程裡面……"],["徐委員巧芯：當然有啊！不然的話，我們推展外交怎麼會辛苦呢？"],["林部長佳龍：對。"],["徐委員巧芯：這個一直都是。"],["林部長佳龍：那個總量是這個樣子沒有錯，可是它裡面有不同的類別，我是不是請我們的同仁來說明？因為免簽的總數包括落地簽、電子簽，還有完全的免簽。"],["徐委員巧芯：但是它總體來說……我只要確認一個數字就好了，好不好？因為時間也不夠，我後面還有題目。"],["林部長佳龍：我們免簽證是110個。"],["徐委員巧芯：總體來說，我們免簽國是否是從143下降，變成136？總體而言的數字。"],["林部長佳龍：請局長說明一下。"],["鄭局長正勇：跟委員報告，從民國97年到……"],["徐委員巧芯：我就問去年到今年，不要從民國97年，我才出生沒多久。"],["鄭局長正勇：免簽國有110個，落地簽證32個，電子簽有43個，總共175個國家跟地區。"],["徐委員巧芯：你說的是什麼時候？"],["鄭局長正勇：到目前10月。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我們的免簽國你是把所有的都算進來，那去年呢？"],["鄭局長正勇：事實上，最近這半年來……"],["徐委員巧芯：「去年」，我沒有問你這半年的事情，「去年」，我去年同期跟今年同期去做比較才有意義啊！你拿半年前跟我比較做什麼？如果你不是很確定的話，你回去再查資料給我好嗎？好不好？"],["鄭局長正勇：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：這樣子我聽了很辛苦！"],["林部長佳龍：我跟委員報告，其實總數是差不多，但是它的類別有變化。"],["徐委員巧芯：類別有變化，但數字可能也有增減，您剛剛講的像是泰國等等的，我們予以肯定，但是總數上面來說的話，我們還是希望它是不減反增的，這點再請外交部回去做努力。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：我也必須要提醒，如果不是很確定的話就不要硬講，回去再給我們回復是OK的，好不好？"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["徐委員巧芯：再來我要詢問的是，駐美代表對臺灣而言當然是滿重要的一個職位，所有的發言某種程度來說也是國內外動見觀瞻。我不曉得部長有沒有看到我們的駐美代表俞大㵢大使，他直接講說臺灣被要求國防支出要達到GDP10%，花多少錢不是問題，我想問一下部長的看法是什麼？"],["林部長佳龍：這個下標有一點偏了，他完整的話應該不是這個樣子。"],["徐委員巧芯：他完整的話是什麼樣子？您說說，您先說說俞大㵢……"],["林部長佳龍：當然美國也有提到希望我們增加國防預算。"],["徐委員巧芯：我知道，我只問我們的大使怎麼說的，我們的大使有沒有說花多少錢不是問題？"],["林部長佳龍：我們要展現自我防衛的決心跟能力，這個是重點。"],["徐委員巧芯：是，然後呢？這個是重點，那他有沒有說這句話？"],["林部長佳龍：不是10%就是好或不好，其實美方也有一些人認為，我們要能夠好好地、紮紮實實地增加到5%，其實這裡面涉及到我們的精實、我們的戰力、國防改革、兵役延長、全社會防衛韌性，這一些都是相關的，所以不是市場喊價幾趴的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：是啊！就不是市場喊價嘛，所以如果你今天講說花多少錢不是問題……"],["林部長佳龍：所以他在講說花多少錢不是問題，它的背後是這個意思，不是說好像越花越多越好，不是這個意思。"],["徐委員巧芯：那請問是不是要去做一些更正呢？"],["林部長佳龍：如果有出入的話，我請大使應該詳細說明。"],["徐委員巧芯：你剛剛問說他到底怎麼說，說有出入嘛，對不對？好，那我唸給你聽他怎麼說的。俞大㵢表示臺灣正朝提高國防預算的方向前進，然後中間沒有什麼，OK的，他說：「臺灣要做好一切準備，抵禦可能的侵略，展現出決心」，這邊都OK喔，但他下一句話說：「花多少錢不是問題」，他確實這樣講啊！跟部長剛剛所說的不一樣，他確實就是這麼說的，所以您剛剛講的，我覺得可以……"],["林部長佳龍：這不是花多少錢的問題，是我們怎麼去增加國防能力跟決心的問題。"],["徐委員巧芯：是，所以不是叫做花多少錢不是問題，是叫做我們要去增加我們國防的國力，以策兩岸之間的安全。"],["林部長佳龍：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為你這樣子的說法會讓大家有所誤會，我們看一下我算出來了，如果今天增加10%GDP的話，其實是占中央政府總預算的93%，我們行政院院長也說了：現階段是沒有能力的，所以作為駐美代表不應該傳遞出錯誤的訊息。像現在俞大㵢大使這樣子的說法，在非常多的媒體上面都做了同樣的報導，所以如果大使覺得他說的話不是這個意思，外交部覺得他說的話不是這個意思，有更好的說法的話，應該要做出更正、做出調整，而不是讓大家看到了以為，哇！花多少不是問題的話，10%、20%也可以啊！30%也可以啊！但這都是花錢嘛，不是說我們花錢解決的就不是問題，這些都是納稅人的錢啊！所以我不曉得是俞大㵢大使過去在花費上面的不精準，例如買沙發什麼的都特別貴這些事情，讓他覺得：哎呀！國防支出花多少錢也不是問題，我不曉得他是不是這個心態，不管今天是3%、5%、10%，都是臺灣人民的納稅錢，我們要為了國防提升相關的預算，但是也要在整體總預算合適的範圍裡面量力而為，我覺得這才是一個正確跟完整的說法，否則大使的說法跟院長的說法根本就也不一樣啊！所以我希望外交部可以回去提醒我們的駐美代表，他所說的一切動見觀瞻，當10%的國防預算……他就直接講了：花多少錢不是問題，一句話了事的時候，他會造成後續大家的誤解跟其他的風波，所以這個部分是不是我們可以請外交部回去再跟大使溝通，而且做必要的調整，外交部也必須要對外做清楚的說明，可以嗎？"],["林部長佳龍：好，因為下標有出入啦！不過委員的意思我知道，我一定會請他……"],["徐委員巧芯：沒有，他裡面的內容也是這樣講。"],["林部長佳龍：要避免誤會。"],["徐委員巧芯：好不好？請他做一個調整，謝謝。"],["林部長佳龍：好。"],["主席（林委員楚茵代）：接下來請王定宇委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":40,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-5","speakers":["王定宇","陳俊宇","羅美玲","陳永康","陳冠廷","林楚茵","馬文君","徐巧芯","賴士葆","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","黃仁","沈伯洋","林憶君","王鴻薇"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148401_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148401_00001"}}}