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{\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 46.213, \"end\": 46.313, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 46.313, \"end\": 46.473, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 46.473, \"end\": 46.573, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 46.573, \"end\": 46.733, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"效\", \"start\": 46.733, \"end\": 46.973, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"率\", \"start\": 46.973, \"end\": 46.993, \"score\": 0.497}]}, {\"start\": 47.774, \"end\": 73.784, \"text\": \"那個我要特別講一個案子其實因為我們辦公室在6月12號的時候收到民眾的一個檢舉而且好幾個民眾一起到辦公室來針對那個會眾智能販賣機這個案子然後我們當天的時候6月12號他們到辦公室來呈現的時候我們就直接把資料送到了公平會這邊的時候你知道他們什麼時候才開始立案開始啟動嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 47.774, \"end\": 48.074, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 48.074, \"end\": 48.174, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 48.174, \"end\": 48.254, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 48.254, \"end\": 48.454, \"score\": 0.807}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 48.454, 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\"始\", \"start\": 73.764, \"end\": 73.784, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"啟\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 75.182, \"end\": 101.5, \"text\": \"因為這個加盟事件有時候我們要比對他提供的實踐到底跟我們處理原則是不是比對啦所以有時候實踐上會拖一點OK喔 他拖了四個月你知道嗎那我們上個禮拜公平會已經要開始做業報要質詢了上個禮拜才開始約了業者過來這過了四個月當中的時候喔我不知道還有多少的民眾陷入這樣的一個陷阱當中\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 75.182, \"end\": 75.742, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"加\", \"start\": 75.742, \"end\": 75.923, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"盟\", \"start\": 75.923, \"end\": 76.043, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 76.043, \"end\": 76.183, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 76.183, \"end\": 76.323, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 76.323, \"end\": 76.463, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 76.463, \"end\": 76.643, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 76.643, \"end\": 76.783, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, 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\"end\": 168.675, \"text\": \"了解這個細節因為有上百個人已經組成了一個這樣子的一個社群到我們辦公室來的時候也超過兩位數的人到我們辦公室這邊來澄清結果六月份我們把這個案子送到我們公平會公平會現在四個月之後才開始做我不知道有這麼多的群眾在這四個月當中踩到這個坑裡面算公平會的嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 143.325, \"end\": 143.525, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 143.525, \"end\": 144.325, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"節\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 144.325, \"end\": 144.626, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 144.626, \"end\": 145.386, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 145.386, \"end\": 145.726, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"百\", \"start\": 145.726, \"end\": 146.166, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 146.166, \"end\": 146.846, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 146.846, \"end\": 147.527, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"組\"}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 147.527, \"end\": 147.747, \"score\": 0.996}, 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{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 163.633, \"end\": 163.753, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 163.753, \"end\": 163.873, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 163.873, \"end\": 163.953, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 163.953, \"end\": 164.133, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 164.133, \"end\": 164.833, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 164.833, \"end\": 165.013, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 165.013, \"end\": 165.153, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"群\", \"start\": 165.153, \"end\": 165.553, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 165.553, \"end\": 165.813, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 165.813, \"end\": 166.054, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 166.054, \"end\": 166.414, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 166.414, \"end\": 166.834, \"score\": 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\"公平會處罰台尼的案子完全被駁回五千萬另外還有一個兩千萬的案子全部都被駁回然後北高行直接講到說公平會的證據不足裁量理由的不明確甚至於連裁罰金額到底怎麼樣算出來都沒有做詳細的資料說明然後沒有影音檔\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 261.089, \"end\": 261.269, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 261.269, \"end\": 262.17, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 262.17, \"end\": 262.37, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"尼\", \"start\": 262.37, \"end\": 262.49, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 262.49, \"end\": 262.59, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 262.59, \"end\": 262.89, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 262.89, \"end\": 263.05, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 263.05, \"end\": 263.25, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 263.25, \"end\": 263.43, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 263.43, \"end\": 263.87, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"駁\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 263.87, \"end\": 264.051, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"五\", \"start\": 264.051, \"end\": 264.251, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 264.251, \"end\": 265.331, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"另\", \"start\": 265.331, \"end\": 265.451, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 265.451, \"end\": 265.651, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 265.651, \"end\": 265.791, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 265.791, \"end\": 266.132, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"千\", \"start\": 266.132, \"end\": 266.272, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 266.272, \"end\": 266.392, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 266.392, \"end\": 266.612, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 266.612, \"end\": 266.712, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"全\", \"start\": 266.712, \"end\": 266.852, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 266.852, \"end\": 266.932, \"score\": 0.753}, 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{\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 274.856, \"end\": 275.536, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"連\"}, {\"word\": \"裁\", \"start\": 275.536, \"end\": 275.977, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"罰\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 275.977, \"end\": 276.277, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 276.277, \"end\": 276.417, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 276.417, \"end\": 276.577, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"怎\", \"start\": 276.577, \"end\": 276.957, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 276.957, \"end\": 277.177, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 277.177, \"end\": 277.497, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 277.497, \"end\": 277.657, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 277.657, \"end\": 277.777, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 277.777, \"end\": 277.938, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 277.938, \"end\": 278.818, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"詳\"}, {\"word\": \"細\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 278.818, \"end\": 279.718, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 279.718, \"end\": 281.139, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 281.139, \"end\": 282.74, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 282.74, \"end\": 282.92, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 282.92, \"end\": 283.34, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 283.34, \"end\": 283.46, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 283.46, \"end\": 283.62, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"影\", \"start\": 283.62, \"end\": 283.761, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 283.761, \"end\": 283.781, \"score\": 0.072}, {\"word\": \"檔\"}]}, {\"start\": 285.788, \"end\": 312.981, \"text\": \"然後也沒有譯文就直接裁罰針對這個部分主委要不要做個說明一下我想聯合行為的案子的處理證據的收集還有這個事證的調查本來就是比較難度比較高但是我們在處理個案的時候一定是盡全力的把證據收集好那這個案子我想裡面有涉及到當然有事實面的問題可能法院跟我們的看法不一樣也有法律面的問題就是到底什麼情況底下構成聯合行為的合議\", \"words\": [{\"word\": 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\"end\": 581.367, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"振\", \"start\": 581.367, \"end\": 581.667, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"銓\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 581.667, \"end\": 581.767, \"score\": 0.785}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 581.767, \"end\": 581.787, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,166 --> 00:00:24,095\n謝謝主席我想請一下陳代理主委請陳主委謝謝陳主委好我想先請教一下如果說有人檢舉之後我們大概多久會立案\n\n2\n00:00:25,031 --> 00:00:46,993\n有針對公平會有關的一個案子當然檢舉以後我們會看市政的程度那我們可能會進一步去了解了解以後覺得有立案必要我們就會立案一般大概要多久時間如果資料也很充分也很清楚如果資料非常充分我們一看大概就有嫌疑的話我們可能當場立即就會立案立即立案是不是OK這聽起來非常的有效率\n\n3\n00:00:47,774 --> 00:01:13,784\n那個我要特別講一個案子其實因為我們辦公室在6月12號的時候收到民眾的一個檢舉而且好幾個民眾一起到辦公室來針對那個會眾智能販賣機這個案子然後我們當天的時候6月12號他們到辦公室來呈現的時候我們就直接把資料送到了公平會這邊的時候你知道他們什麼時候才開始立案開始啟動嗎\n\n4\n00:01:15,182 --> 00:01:41,500\n因為這個加盟事件有時候我們要比對他提供的實踐到底跟我們處理原則是不是比對啦所以有時候實踐上會拖一點OK喔他拖了四個月你知道嗎那我們上個禮拜公平會已經要開始做業報要質詢了上個禮拜才開始約了業者過來這過了四個月當中的時候喔我不知道還有多少的民眾陷入這樣的一個陷阱當中\n\n5\n00:01:43,629 --> 00:02:07,724\n那我們你知道在網路上面已經有好多的群組社群上百人喔大家在裡面分享他們如何的被匯眾給欺負那這樣的狀態我們竟然還要等四個月的時間才開始立案調查然後這四個月當中有多少的民眾在踩到這個坑裡面去我們不曉得\n\n6\n00:02:09,455 --> 00:02:22,086\n從六月到十月這四個月的時候我不知道公平會在做什麼針對這個部分的時候我希望主委這邊去好好瞭解一下然後針對這個案子的時候我好好的去\n\n7\n00:02:23,325 --> 00:02:48,675\n了解這個細節因為有上百個人已經組成了一個這樣子的一個社群到我們辦公室來的時候也超過兩位數的人到我們辦公室這邊來澄清結果六月份我們把這個案子送到我們公平會公平會現在四個月之後才開始做我不知道有這麼多的群眾在這四個月當中踩到這個坑裡面算公平會的嗎\n\n8\n00:02:49,955 --> 00:03:12,303\n那個跟委員報告這個案子當然我們立案不過當然謝謝委員的提醒我們會我事後我會注意到這個問題因為我們提供給你們證據非常的清楚因為針對我們公平會這邊的時候有一個公平交易委員會對於加盟業主經營行為案件的處理原則它裡面明顯的違反它沒有給10天的一個合約審閱期你知道嗎\n\n9\n00:03:14,164 --> 00:03:40,744\n然後也沒有給五天的一個契約審閱期都沒有然後這樣的狀態你們還覺得資料不夠完整讓他們拖了四個月去坑更多的一個民眾針對這個部分希望主委這邊趕快去追究出來它裡面其實有非常非常多的一個案子包括可能一開始用詐欺的方式告訴他們你只要繳85萬點他幫你找然後你到時候只要等著分紅就好\n\n10\n00:03:41,304 --> 00:03:58,281\n他其他後續的東西他就幫你做你只要出85萬後續你就等分紅那這樣的狀態竟然都還可以拖四個月針對這個部分的時間本席是非常的不諒解啦所以希望主委這邊趕快去針對這部分去查一下到底是怎麼樣一回事好不好\n\n11\n00:04:01,109 --> 00:04:19,575\n那麼另外接下來我想針對台泥這個案子因為台泥這個案子公平會這邊的時候用了一個寬恕條例讓檢舉台泥的業者得到多少的寬恕我不曉得重點是北高行完全打臉了公平會\n\n12\n00:04:21,089 --> 00:04:43,781\n公平會處罰台尼的案子完全被駁回五千萬另外還有一個兩千萬的案子全部都被駁回然後北高行直接講到說公平會的證據不足裁量理由的不明確甚至於連裁罰金額到底怎麼樣算出來都沒有做詳細的資料說明然後沒有影音檔\n\n13\n00:04:45,788 --> 00:05:12,981\n然後也沒有譯文就直接裁罰針對這個部分主委要不要做個說明一下我想聯合行為的案子的處理證據的收集還有這個事證的調查本來就是比較難度比較高但是我們在處理個案的時候一定是盡全力的把證據收集好那這個案子我想裡面有涉及到當然有事實面的問題可能法院跟我們的看法不一樣也有法律面的問題就是到底什麼情況底下構成聯合行為的合議\n\n14\n00:05:13,821 --> 00:05:23,771\n北高興直接講說你們沒有付市政你知道嗎你們都沒有付市政然後如果這樣的情況如果同業當中他們用了一個寬數條款然後來開始構陷同業爭取減罰這樣的狀態你們買單嗎\n\n15\n00:05:30,512 --> 00:05:57,365\n那個寬恕政策的政策本來就是希望藉由提供減罰的方式來解決所以這是必然一定會有這樣的情況但是問題就是說法院對這個事情的看法可能跟我們有點不太一樣OK那我想問因為10月1號北高行判決下來的時候你們什麼時候收到這個文我們這個禮拜收到這個禮拜收到有20天的一個那個\n\n16\n00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:26,932\n我們應該會上訴你們會決定上訴我們會上訴那我們希望公平會在處理所有的裁罰案件的時候要有很清楚的一個理由因為北高興這邊直接講說你們沒有富士政那感覺是沒有查清楚就開罰還是說沒有準備充分就去打這個官司我們希望公平會這兩個部分都能夠把它好好的處理我們會盡量在這兩點去釐清希望法院能夠接受我們的觀點\n\n17\n00:06:28,212 --> 00:06:51,147\n另外因為這邊的時候有特別提到說我們在這一次的時候整個罰款公示其實並沒有提供我想請教過去五年公平會裁罰的重大案件的時候大概有多少件你們之後給我一個詳細的書面資料我想知道裁罰在一千萬以上的你們的一個量處的依據跟整個計算邏輯是什麼一併給我好不好\n\n18\n00:06:52,006 --> 00:07:07,487\n相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關\n\n19\n00:07:11,486 --> 00:07:28,220\n2024年你們也做了一個很重要的裁罰就是針對那個全聯罰他們2000萬因為他們在併購大論發的時候有承諾不採最惠客戶的政策結果顯然他們違反了顯然他們違反了然後你們也罰了2000萬\n\n20\n00:07:29,941 --> 00:07:55,977\n那我想說是法爾2000萬之後全年就可以繼續用他們的一個最惠客戶政策的時候繼續壓迫所有的供應商因為很多的供應商品牌商其實他們非常非常的意見覺得說在這樣的一個全年發展出來的寄售制而且全面使用寄售制的時候讓他們的生存產生很大的壓力我想針對這個部分的時候主委可不可以講一下\n\n21\n00:07:56,677 --> 00:08:09,586\n接下來怎麼處理全年的問題針對剛剛委員所談到那個最惠國待遇的那個價格的部分我們除了處罰他以外其實我們要教求他要停止所以他其實是不能再做那他如果繼續做呢繼續做我們當然繼續罰\n\n22\n00:08:11,127 --> 00:08:38,527\n多久罰一次?如果他有違法的事證我們經過調查的確有屬實違反我們當初所要求的當然我們還是可以...所以如果寄授制持續的在做的時候你們每個禮拜罰一次嗎?寄授跟那個賣斷是另外一個問題理解寄授跟賣斷的話因為他涉及到的是我們在當初結合的時候所以他只要說他如果說繼續採取最惠客戶政策的時候你們會持續的罰多久罰一次?就是違法事情經過委員討論認定是真的是違反了我們當初要求就還是可以再處罰\n\n23\n00:08:39,167 --> 00:09:07,362\nok好理解喔那最後我再丟一個問題就是針對那個台製電的問題因為台製電是政府政策推出來希望讓開發商可以去融資然後讓小公司可以買到綠電基本上利益良善可是因為總經理社會社團的時候相關的問題的時候針對台製電他們接下來如果是壓價購電或者是提高售價這個部分我希望\n\n24\n00:09:07,822 --> 00:09:27,856\n那個公平會這邊有一個很清楚的一個立場我們在這個案子決定通過以後我們在新聞稿裡面有特別強調這個案子雖然通過但是事後我們還是持續觀察業者有沒有進行違反的這個綜藝性原則跟歧視性原則特別是針對那個買方價格的部分我們去看有沒有濫用市場地位的問題\n\n25\n00:09:29,417 --> 00:09:41,787\n因為這個部分對整個台灣的綠能的一個生態系來說是很重要的那我們希望公平郵件裡面能扮演更好的角色不要讓相關的人持續在當中劏髒玩法好不好謝謝謝謝曾振銓委員的資訊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6166\t24095\t謝謝主席我想請一下陳代理主委請陳主委謝謝陳主委好我想先請教一下如果說有人檢舉之後我們大概多久會立案\n25031\t46993\t有針對公平會有關的一個案子當然檢舉以後我們會看市政的程度那我們可能會進一步去了解了解以後覺得有立案必要我們就會立案一般大概要多久時間如果資料也很充分也很清楚如果資料非常充分我們一看大概就有嫌疑的話我們可能當場立即就會立案立即立案是不是OK 這聽起來非常的有效率\n47774\t73784\t那個我要特別講一個案子其實因為我們辦公室在6月12號的時候收到民眾的一個檢舉而且好幾個民眾一起到辦公室來針對那個會眾智能販賣機這個案子然後我們當天的時候6月12號他們到辦公室來呈現的時候我們就直接把資料送到了公平會這邊的時候你知道他們什麼時候才開始立案開始啟動嗎\n75182\t101500\t因為這個加盟事件有時候我們要比對他提供的實踐到底跟我們處理原則是不是比對啦所以有時候實踐上會拖一點OK喔 他拖了四個月你知道嗎那我們上個禮拜公平會已經要開始做業報要質詢了上個禮拜才開始約了業者過來這過了四個月當中的時候喔我不知道還有多少的民眾陷入這樣的一個陷阱當中\n103629\t127724\t那我們你知道在網路上面已經有好多的群組 社群上百人喔 大家在裡面分享他們如何的被匯眾給欺負那這樣的狀態我們竟然還要等四個月的時間才開始立案調查然後這四個月當中有多少的民眾在踩到這個坑裡面去 我們不曉得\n129455\t142086\t從六月到十月這四個月的時候我不知道公平會在做什麼針對這個部分的時候我希望主委這邊去好好瞭解一下然後針對這個案子的時候我好好的去\n143325\t168675\t了解這個細節因為有上百個人已經組成了一個這樣子的一個社群到我們辦公室來的時候也超過兩位數的人到我們辦公室這邊來澄清結果六月份我們把這個案子送到我們公平會公平會現在四個月之後才開始做我不知道有這麼多的群眾在這四個月當中踩到這個坑裡面算公平會的嗎\n169955\t192303\t那個跟委員報告這個案子當然我們立案不過當然謝謝委員的提醒我們會我事後我會注意到這個問題因為我們提供給你們證據非常的清楚因為針對我們公平會這邊的時候有一個公平交易委員會對於加盟業主經營行為案件的處理原則它裡面明顯的違反它沒有給10天的一個合約審閱期你知道嗎\n194164\t220744\t然後也沒有給五天的一個契約審閱期都沒有然後這樣的狀態你們還覺得資料不夠完整讓他們拖了四個月去坑更多的一個民眾針對這個部分希望主委這邊趕快去追究出來它裡面其實有非常非常多的一個案子包括可能一開始用詐欺的方式告訴他們你只要繳85萬點他幫你找然後你到時候只要等著分紅就好\n221304\t238281\t他其他後續的東西他就幫你做你只要出85萬後續你就等分紅那這樣的狀態竟然都還可以拖四個月針對這個部分的時間本席是非常的不諒解啦所以希望主委這邊趕快去針對這部分去查一下到底是怎麼樣一回事好不好\n241109\t259575\t那麼另外接下來我想針對台泥這個案子因為台泥這個案子公平會這邊的時候用了一個寬恕條例讓檢舉台泥的業者得到多少的寬恕我不曉得重點是北高行完全打臉了公平會\n261089\t283781\t公平會處罰台尼的案子完全被駁回五千萬另外還有一個兩千萬的案子全部都被駁回然後北高行直接講到說公平會的證據不足裁量理由的不明確甚至於連裁罰金額到底怎麼樣算出來都沒有做詳細的資料說明然後沒有影音檔\n285788\t312981\t然後也沒有譯文就直接裁罰針對這個部分主委要不要做個說明一下我想聯合行為的案子的處理證據的收集還有這個事證的調查本來就是比較難度比較高但是我們在處理個案的時候一定是盡全力的把證據收集好那這個案子我想裡面有涉及到當然有事實面的問題可能法院跟我們的看法不一樣也有法律面的問題就是到底什麼情況底下構成聯合行為的合議\n313821\t323771\t北高興直接講說你們沒有付市政你知道嗎你們都沒有付市政然後如果這樣的情況如果同業當中他們用了一個寬數條款然後來開始構陷同業爭取減罰這樣的狀態你們買單嗎\n330512\t357365\t那個寬恕政策的政策本來就是希望藉由提供減罰的方式來解決所以這是必然一定會有這樣的情況但是問題就是說法院對這個事情的看法可能跟我們有點不太一樣OK那我想問因為10月1號北高行判決下來的時候你們什麼時候收到這個文我們這個禮拜收到這個禮拜收到有20天的一個那個\n360300\t386932\t我們應該會上訴你們會決定上訴我們會上訴那我們希望公平會在處理所有的裁罰案件的時候要有很清楚的一個理由因為北高興這邊直接講說你們沒有富士政那感覺是沒有查清楚就開罰還是說沒有準備充分就去打這個官司我們希望公平會這兩個部分都能夠把它好好的處理我們會盡量在這兩點去釐清希望法院能夠接受我們的觀點\n388212\t411147\t另外因為這邊的時候有特別提到說我們在這一次的時候整個罰款公示其實並沒有提供我想請教過去五年公平會裁罰的重大案件的時候大概有多少件你們之後給我一個詳細的書面資料我想知道裁罰在一千萬以上的你們的一個量處的依據跟整個計算邏輯是什麼一併給我好不好\n412006\t427487\t相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關\n431486\t448220\t2024年你們也做了一個很重要的裁罰 就是針對那個全聯罰他們2000萬 因為他們在併購大論發的時候有承諾不採最惠客戶的政策結果顯然他們違反了顯然他們違反了 然後你們也罰了2000萬\n449941\t475977\t那我想說是法爾2000萬之後全年就可以繼續用他們的一個最惠客戶政策的時候繼續壓迫所有的供應商因為很多的供應商 品牌商其實他們非常非常的意見覺得說在這樣的一個全年發展出來的寄售制而且全面使用寄售制的時候讓他們的生存產生很大的壓力我想針對這個部分的時候主委可不可以講一下\n476677\t489586\t接下來怎麼處理全年的問題針對剛剛委員所談到那個最惠國待遇的那個價格的部分我們除了處罰他以外其實我們要教求他要停止所以他其實是不能再做那他如果繼續做呢繼續做我們當然繼續罰\n491127\t518527\t多久罰一次?如果他有違法的事證我們經過調查的確有屬實違反我們當初所要求的當然我們還是可以...所以如果寄授制持續的在做的時候你們每個禮拜罰一次嗎?寄授跟那個賣斷是另外一個問題理解寄授跟賣斷的話因為他涉及到的是我們在當初結合的時候所以他只要說他如果說繼續採取最惠客戶政策的時候你們會持續的罰多久罰一次?就是違法事情經過委員討論認定是真的是違反了我們當初要求就還是可以再處罰\n519167\t547362\tok好理解喔那最後我再丟一個問題就是針對那個台製電的問題因為台製電是政府政策推出來希望讓開發商可以去融資然後讓小公司可以買到綠電基本上利益良善可是因為總經理社會社團的時候相關的問題的時候針對台製電他們接下來如果是壓價購電或者是提高售價這個部分我希望\n547822\t567856\t那個公平會這邊有一個很清楚的一個立場我們在這個案子決定通過以後我們在新聞稿裡面有特別強調這個案子雖然通過但是事後我們還是持續觀察業者有沒有進行違反的這個綜藝性原則跟歧視性原則特別是針對那個買方價格的部分我們去看有沒有濫用市場地位的問題\n569417\t581787\t因為這個部分對整個台灣的綠能的一個生態系來說是很重要的那我們希望公平郵件裡面能扮演更好的角色不要讓相關的人持續在當中劏髒玩法好不好謝謝謝謝曾振銓委員的資訊\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請一下陳代理主委請陳主委謝謝陳主委好我想先請教一下如果說有人檢舉之後我們大概多久會立案\n有針對公平會有關的一個案子當然檢舉以後我們會看市政的程度那我們可能會進一步去了解了解以後覺得有立案必要我們就會立案一般大概要多久時間如果資料也很充分也很清楚如果資料非常充分我們一看大概就有嫌疑的話我們可能當場立即就會立案立即立案是不是OK 這聽起來非常的有效率\n那個我要特別講一個案子其實因為我們辦公室在6月12號的時候收到民眾的一個檢舉而且好幾個民眾一起到辦公室來針對那個會眾智能販賣機這個案子然後我們當天的時候6月12號他們到辦公室來呈現的時候我們就直接把資料送到了公平會這邊的時候你知道他們什麼時候才開始立案開始啟動嗎\n因為這個加盟事件有時候我們要比對他提供的實踐到底跟我們處理原則是不是比對啦所以有時候實踐上會拖一點OK喔 他拖了四個月你知道嗎那我們上個禮拜公平會已經要開始做業報要質詢了上個禮拜才開始約了業者過來這過了四個月當中的時候喔我不知道還有多少的民眾陷入這樣的一個陷阱當中\n那我們你知道在網路上面已經有好多的群組 社群上百人喔 大家在裡面分享他們如何的被匯眾給欺負那這樣的狀態我們竟然還要等四個月的時間才開始立案調查然後這四個月當中有多少的民眾在踩到這個坑裡面去 我們不曉得\n從六月到十月這四個月的時候我不知道公平會在做什麼針對這個部分的時候我希望主委這邊去好好瞭解一下然後針對這個案子的時候我好好的去\n了解這個細節因為有上百個人已經組成了一個這樣子的一個社群到我們辦公室來的時候也超過兩位數的人到我們辦公室這邊來澄清結果六月份我們把這個案子送到我們公平會公平會現在四個月之後才開始做我不知道有這麼多的群眾在這四個月當中踩到這個坑裡面算公平會的嗎\n那個跟委員報告這個案子當然我們立案不過當然謝謝委員的提醒我們會我事後我會注意到這個問題因為我們提供給你們證據非常的清楚因為針對我們公平會這邊的時候有一個公平交易委員會對於加盟業主經營行為案件的處理原則它裡面明顯的違反它沒有給10天的一個合約審閱期你知道嗎\n然後也沒有給五天的一個契約審閱期都沒有然後這樣的狀態你們還覺得資料不夠完整讓他們拖了四個月去坑更多的一個民眾針對這個部分希望主委這邊趕快去追究出來它裡面其實有非常非常多的一個案子包括可能一開始用詐欺的方式告訴他們你只要繳85萬點他幫你找然後你到時候只要等著分紅就好\n他其他後續的東西他就幫你做你只要出85萬後續你就等分紅那這樣的狀態竟然都還可以拖四個月針對這個部分的時間本席是非常的不諒解啦所以希望主委這邊趕快去針對這部分去查一下到底是怎麼樣一回事好不好\n那麼另外接下來我想針對台泥這個案子因為台泥這個案子公平會這邊的時候用了一個寬恕條例讓檢舉台泥的業者得到多少的寬恕我不曉得重點是北高行完全打臉了公平會\n公平會處罰台尼的案子完全被駁回五千萬另外還有一個兩千萬的案子全部都被駁回然後北高行直接講到說公平會的證據不足裁量理由的不明確甚至於連裁罰金額到底怎麼樣算出來都沒有做詳細的資料說明然後沒有影音檔\n然後也沒有譯文就直接裁罰針對這個部分主委要不要做個說明一下我想聯合行為的案子的處理證據的收集還有這個事證的調查本來就是比較難度比較高但是我們在處理個案的時候一定是盡全力的把證據收集好那這個案子我想裡面有涉及到當然有事實面的問題可能法院跟我們的看法不一樣也有法律面的問題就是到底什麼情況底下構成聯合行為的合議\n北高興直接講說你們沒有付市政你知道嗎你們都沒有付市政然後如果這樣的情況如果同業當中他們用了一個寬數條款然後來開始構陷同業爭取減罰這樣的狀態你們買單嗎\n那個寬恕政策的政策本來就是希望藉由提供減罰的方式來解決所以這是必然一定會有這樣的情況但是問題就是說法院對這個事情的看法可能跟我們有點不太一樣OK那我想問因為10月1號北高行判決下來的時候你們什麼時候收到這個文我們這個禮拜收到這個禮拜收到有20天的一個那個\n我們應該會上訴你們會決定上訴我們會上訴那我們希望公平會在處理所有的裁罰案件的時候要有很清楚的一個理由因為北高興這邊直接講說你們沒有富士政那感覺是沒有查清楚就開罰還是說沒有準備充分就去打這個官司我們希望公平會這兩個部分都能夠把它好好的處理我們會盡量在這兩點去釐清希望法院能夠接受我們的觀點\n另外因為這邊的時候有特別提到說我們在這一次的時候整個罰款公示其實並沒有提供我想請教過去五年公平會裁罰的重大案件的時候大概有多少件你們之後給我一個詳細的書面資料我想知道裁罰在一千萬以上的你們的一個量處的依據跟整個計算邏輯是什麼一併給我好不好\n相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關\n2024年你們也做了一個很重要的裁罰 就是針對那個全聯罰他們2000萬 因為他們在併購大論發的時候有承諾不採最惠客戶的政策結果顯然他們違反了顯然他們違反了 然後你們也罰了2000萬\n那我想說是法爾2000萬之後全年就可以繼續用他們的一個最惠客戶政策的時候繼續壓迫所有的供應商因為很多的供應商 品牌商其實他們非常非常的意見覺得說在這樣的一個全年發展出來的寄售制而且全面使用寄售制的時候讓他們的生存產生很大的壓力我想針對這個部分的時候主委可不可以講一下\n接下來怎麼處理全年的問題針對剛剛委員所談到那個最惠國待遇的那個價格的部分我們除了處罰他以外其實我們要教求他要停止所以他其實是不能再做那他如果繼續做呢繼續做我們當然繼續罰\n多久罰一次?如果他有違法的事證我們經過調查的確有屬實違反我們當初所要求的當然我們還是可以...所以如果寄授制持續的在做的時候你們每個禮拜罰一次嗎?寄授跟那個賣斷是另外一個問題理解寄授跟賣斷的話因為他涉及到的是我們在當初結合的時候所以他只要說他如果說繼續採取最惠客戶政策的時候你們會持續的罰多久罰一次?就是違法事情經過委員討論認定是真的是違反了我們當初要求就還是可以再處罰\nok好理解喔那最後我再丟一個問題就是針對那個台製電的問題因為台製電是政府政策推出來希望讓開發商可以去融資然後讓小公司可以買到綠電基本上利益良善可是因為總經理社會社團的時候相關的問題的時候針對台製電他們接下來如果是壓價購電或者是提高售價這個部分我希望\n那個公平會這邊有一個很清楚的一個立場我們在這個案子決定通過以後我們在新聞稿裡面有特別強調這個案子雖然通過但是事後我們還是持續觀察業者有沒有進行違反的這個綜藝性原則跟歧視性原則特別是針對那個買方價格的部分我們去看有沒有濫用市場地位的問題\n因為這個部分對整個台灣的綠能的一個生態系來說是很重要的那我們希望公平郵件裡面能扮演更好的角色不要讓相關的人持續在當中劏髒玩法好不好謝謝謝謝曾振銓委員的資訊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.166 --> 00:24.095\n謝謝主席我想請一下陳代理主委請陳主委謝謝陳主委好我想先請教一下如果說有人檢舉之後我們大概多久會立案\n\n00:25.031 --> 00:46.993\n有針對公平會有關的一個案子當然檢舉以後我們會看市政的程度那我們可能會進一步去了解了解以後覺得有立案必要我們就會立案一般大概要多久時間如果資料也很充分也很清楚如果資料非常充分我們一看大概就有嫌疑的話我們可能當場立即就會立案立即立案是不是OK這聽起來非常的有效率\n\n00:47.774 --> 01:13.784\n那個我要特別講一個案子其實因為我們辦公室在6月12號的時候收到民眾的一個檢舉而且好幾個民眾一起到辦公室來針對那個會眾智能販賣機這個案子然後我們當天的時候6月12號他們到辦公室來呈現的時候我們就直接把資料送到了公平會這邊的時候你知道他們什麼時候才開始立案開始啟動嗎\n\n01:15.182 --> 01:41.500\n因為這個加盟事件有時候我們要比對他提供的實踐到底跟我們處理原則是不是比對啦所以有時候實踐上會拖一點OK喔他拖了四個月你知道嗎那我們上個禮拜公平會已經要開始做業報要質詢了上個禮拜才開始約了業者過來這過了四個月當中的時候喔我不知道還有多少的民眾陷入這樣的一個陷阱當中\n\n01:43.629 --> 02:07.724\n那我們你知道在網路上面已經有好多的群組社群上百人喔大家在裡面分享他們如何的被匯眾給欺負那這樣的狀態我們竟然還要等四個月的時間才開始立案調查然後這四個月當中有多少的民眾在踩到這個坑裡面去我們不曉得\n\n02:09.455 --> 02:22.086\n從六月到十月這四個月的時候我不知道公平會在做什麼針對這個部分的時候我希望主委這邊去好好瞭解一下然後針對這個案子的時候我好好的去\n\n02:23.325 --> 02:48.675\n了解這個細節因為有上百個人已經組成了一個這樣子的一個社群到我們辦公室來的時候也超過兩位數的人到我們辦公室這邊來澄清結果六月份我們把這個案子送到我們公平會公平會現在四個月之後才開始做我不知道有這麼多的群眾在這四個月當中踩到這個坑裡面算公平會的嗎\n\n02:49.955 --> 03:12.303\n那個跟委員報告這個案子當然我們立案不過當然謝謝委員的提醒我們會我事後我會注意到這個問題因為我們提供給你們證據非常的清楚因為針對我們公平會這邊的時候有一個公平交易委員會對於加盟業主經營行為案件的處理原則它裡面明顯的違反它沒有給10天的一個合約審閱期你知道嗎\n\n03:14.164 --> 03:40.744\n然後也沒有給五天的一個契約審閱期都沒有然後這樣的狀態你們還覺得資料不夠完整讓他們拖了四個月去坑更多的一個民眾針對這個部分希望主委這邊趕快去追究出來它裡面其實有非常非常多的一個案子包括可能一開始用詐欺的方式告訴他們你只要繳85萬點他幫你找然後你到時候只要等著分紅就好\n\n03:41.304 --> 03:58.281\n他其他後續的東西他就幫你做你只要出85萬後續你就等分紅那這樣的狀態竟然都還可以拖四個月針對這個部分的時間本席是非常的不諒解啦所以希望主委這邊趕快去針對這部分去查一下到底是怎麼樣一回事好不好\n\n04:01.109 --> 04:19.575\n那麼另外接下來我想針對台泥這個案子因為台泥這個案子公平會這邊的時候用了一個寬恕條例讓檢舉台泥的業者得到多少的寬恕我不曉得重點是北高行完全打臉了公平會\n\n04:21.089 --> 04:43.781\n公平會處罰台尼的案子完全被駁回五千萬另外還有一個兩千萬的案子全部都被駁回然後北高行直接講到說公平會的證據不足裁量理由的不明確甚至於連裁罰金額到底怎麼樣算出來都沒有做詳細的資料說明然後沒有影音檔\n\n04:45.788 --> 05:12.981\n然後也沒有譯文就直接裁罰針對這個部分主委要不要做個說明一下我想聯合行為的案子的處理證據的收集還有這個事證的調查本來就是比較難度比較高但是我們在處理個案的時候一定是盡全力的把證據收集好那這個案子我想裡面有涉及到當然有事實面的問題可能法院跟我們的看法不一樣也有法律面的問題就是到底什麼情況底下構成聯合行為的合議\n\n05:13.821 --> 05:23.771\n北高興直接講說你們沒有付市政你知道嗎你們都沒有付市政然後如果這樣的情況如果同業當中他們用了一個寬數條款然後來開始構陷同業爭取減罰這樣的狀態你們買單嗎\n\n05:30.512 --> 05:57.365\n那個寬恕政策的政策本來就是希望藉由提供減罰的方式來解決所以這是必然一定會有這樣的情況但是問題就是說法院對這個事情的看法可能跟我們有點不太一樣OK那我想問因為10月1號北高行判決下來的時候你們什麼時候收到這個文我們這個禮拜收到這個禮拜收到有20天的一個那個\n\n06:00.300 --> 06:26.932\n我們應該會上訴你們會決定上訴我們會上訴那我們希望公平會在處理所有的裁罰案件的時候要有很清楚的一個理由因為北高興這邊直接講說你們沒有富士政那感覺是沒有查清楚就開罰還是說沒有準備充分就去打這個官司我們希望公平會這兩個部分都能夠把它好好的處理我們會盡量在這兩點去釐清希望法院能夠接受我們的觀點\n\n06:28.212 --> 06:51.147\n另外因為這邊的時候有特別提到說我們在這一次的時候整個罰款公示其實並沒有提供我想請教過去五年公平會裁罰的重大案件的時候大概有多少件你們之後給我一個詳細的書面資料我想知道裁罰在一千萬以上的你們的一個量處的依據跟整個計算邏輯是什麼一併給我好不好\n\n06:52.006 --> 07:07.487\n相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關的數字相關\n\n07:11.486 --> 07:28.220\n2024年你們也做了一個很重要的裁罰就是針對那個全聯罰他們2000萬因為他們在併購大論發的時候有承諾不採最惠客戶的政策結果顯然他們違反了顯然他們違反了然後你們也罰了2000萬\n\n07:29.941 --> 07:55.977\n那我想說是法爾2000萬之後全年就可以繼續用他們的一個最惠客戶政策的時候繼續壓迫所有的供應商因為很多的供應商品牌商其實他們非常非常的意見覺得說在這樣的一個全年發展出來的寄售制而且全面使用寄售制的時候讓他們的生存產生很大的壓力我想針對這個部分的時候主委可不可以講一下\n\n07:56.677 --> 08:09.586\n接下來怎麼處理全年的問題針對剛剛委員所談到那個最惠國待遇的那個價格的部分我們除了處罰他以外其實我們要教求他要停止所以他其實是不能再做那他如果繼續做呢繼續做我們當然繼續罰\n\n08:11.127 --> 08:38.527\n多久罰一次?如果他有違法的事證我們經過調查的確有屬實違反我們當初所要求的當然我們還是可以...所以如果寄授制持續的在做的時候你們每個禮拜罰一次嗎?寄授跟那個賣斷是另外一個問題理解寄授跟賣斷的話因為他涉及到的是我們在當初結合的時候所以他只要說他如果說繼續採取最惠客戶政策的時候你們會持續的罰多久罰一次?就是違法事情經過委員討論認定是真的是違反了我們當初要求就還是可以再處罰\n\n08:39.167 --> 09:07.362\nok好理解喔那最後我再丟一個問題就是針對那個台製電的問題因為台製電是政府政策推出來希望讓開發商可以去融資然後讓小公司可以買到綠電基本上利益良善可是因為總經理社會社團的時候相關的問題的時候針對台製電他們接下來如果是壓價購電或者是提高售價這個部分我希望\n\n09:07.822 --> 09:27.856\n那個公平會這邊有一個很清楚的一個立場我們在這個案子決定通過以後我們在新聞稿裡面有特別強調這個案子雖然通過但是事後我們還是持續觀察業者有沒有進行違反的這個綜藝性原則跟歧視性原則特別是針對那個買方價格的部分我們去看有沒有濫用市場地位的問題\n\n09:29.417 --> 09:41.787\n因為這個部分對整個台灣的綠能的一個生態系來說是很重要的那我們希望公平郵件裡面能扮演更好的角色不要讓相關的人持續在當中劏髒玩法好不好謝謝謝謝曾振銓委員的資訊\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.166,"end":24.095,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下陳代理主委請陳主委謝謝陳主委好我想先請教一下如果說有人檢舉之後我們大概多久會立案"},{"start":25.031,"end":46.993,"text":"有針對公平會有關的一個案子當然檢舉以後我們會看市政的程度那我們可能會進一步去了解了解以後覺得有立案必要我們就會立案一般大概要多久時間如果資料也很充分也很清楚如果資料非常充分我們一看大概就有嫌疑的話我們可能當場立即就會立案立即立案是不是OK 這聽起來非常的有效率"},{"start":47.774,"end":73.784,"text":"那個我要特別講一個案子其實因為我們辦公室在6月12號的時候收到民眾的一個檢舉而且好幾個民眾一起到辦公室來針對那個會眾智能販賣機這個案子然後我們當天的時候6月12號他們到辦公室來呈現的時候我們就直接把資料送到了公平會這邊的時候你知道他們什麼時候才開始立案開始啟動嗎"},{"start":75.182,"end":101.5,"text":"因為這個加盟事件有時候我們要比對他提供的實踐到底跟我們處理原則是不是比對啦所以有時候實踐上會拖一點OK喔 他拖了四個月你知道嗎那我們上個禮拜公平會已經要開始做業報要質詢了上個禮拜才開始約了業者過來這過了四個月當中的時候喔我不知道還有多少的民眾陷入這樣的一個陷阱當中"},{"start":103.629,"end":127.724,"text":"那我們你知道在網路上面已經有好多的群組 社群上百人喔 大家在裡面分享他們如何的被匯眾給欺負那這樣的狀態我們竟然還要等四個月的時間才開始立案調查然後這四個月當中有多少的民眾在踩到這個坑裡面去 我們不曉得"},{"start":129.455,"end":142.086,"text":"從六月到十月這四個月的時候我不知道公平會在做什麼針對這個部分的時候我希望主委這邊去好好瞭解一下然後針對這個案子的時候我好好的去"},{"start":143.325,"end":168.675,"text":"了解這個細節因為有上百個人已經組成了一個這樣子的一個社群到我們辦公室來的時候也超過兩位數的人到我們辦公室這邊來澄清結果六月份我們把這個案子送到我們公平會公平會現在四個月之後才開始做我不知道有這麼多的群眾在這四個月當中踩到這個坑裡面算公平會的嗎"},{"start":169.955,"end":192.303,"text":"那個跟委員報告這個案子當然我們立案不過當然謝謝委員的提醒我們會我事後我會注意到這個問題因為我們提供給你們證據非常的清楚因為針對我們公平會這邊的時候有一個公平交易委員會對於加盟業主經營行為案件的處理原則它裡面明顯的違反它沒有給10天的一個合約審閱期你知道嗎"},{"start":194.164,"end":220.744,"text":"然後也沒有給五天的一個契約審閱期都沒有然後這樣的狀態你們還覺得資料不夠完整讓他們拖了四個月去坑更多的一個民眾針對這個部分希望主委這邊趕快去追究出來它裡面其實有非常非常多的一個案子包括可能一開始用詐欺的方式告訴他們你只要繳85萬點他幫你找然後你到時候只要等著分紅就好"},{"start":221.304,"end":238.281,"text":"他其他後續的東西他就幫你做你只要出85萬後續你就等分紅那這樣的狀態竟然都還可以拖四個月針對這個部分的時間本席是非常的不諒解啦所以希望主委這邊趕快去針對這部分去查一下到底是怎麼樣一回事好不好"},{"start":241.109,"end":259.575,"text":"那麼另外接下來我想針對台泥這個案子因為台泥這個案子公平會這邊的時候用了一個寬恕條例讓檢舉台泥的業者得到多少的寬恕我不曉得重點是北高行完全打臉了公平會"},{"start":261.089,"end":283.781,"text":"公平會處罰台尼的案子完全被駁回五千萬另外還有一個兩千萬的案子全部都被駁回然後北高行直接講到說公平會的證據不足裁量理由的不明確甚至於連裁罰金額到底怎麼樣算出來都沒有做詳細的資料說明然後沒有影音檔"},{"start":285.788,"end":312.981,"text":"然後也沒有譯文就直接裁罰針對這個部分主委要不要做個說明一下我想聯合行為的案子的處理證據的收集還有這個事證的調查本來就是比較難度比較高但是我們在處理個案的時候一定是盡全力的把證據收集好那這個案子我想裡面有涉及到當然有事實面的問題可能法院跟我們的看法不一樣也有法律面的問題就是到底什麼情況底下構成聯合行為的合議"},{"start":313.821,"end":323.771,"text":"北高興直接講說你們沒有付市政你知道嗎你們都沒有付市政然後如果這樣的情況如果同業當中他們用了一個寬數條款然後來開始構陷同業爭取減罰這樣的狀態你們買單嗎"},{"start":330.512,"end":357.365,"text":"那個寬恕政策的政策本來就是希望藉由提供減罰的方式來解決所以這是必然一定會有這樣的情況但是問題就是說法院對這個事情的看法可能跟我們有點不太一樣OK那我想問因為10月1號北高行判決下來的時候你們什麼時候收到這個文我們這個禮拜收到這個禮拜收到有20天的一個那個"},{"start":360.3,"end":386.932,"text":"我們應該會上訴你們會決定上訴我們會上訴那我們希望公平會在處理所有的裁罰案件的時候要有很清楚的一個理由因為北高興這邊直接講說你們沒有富士政那感覺是沒有查清楚就開罰還是說沒有準備充分就去打這個官司我們希望公平會這兩個部分都能夠把它好好的處理我們會盡量在這兩點去釐清希望法院能夠接受我們的觀點"},{"start":388.212,"end":411.147,"text":"另外因為這邊的時候有特別提到說我們在這一次的時候整個罰款公示其實並沒有提供我想請教過去五年公平會裁罰的重大案件的時候大概有多少件你們之後給我一個詳細的書面資料我想知道裁罰在一千萬以上的你們的一個量處的依據跟整個計算邏輯是什麼一併給我好不好"},{"start":412.006,"end":427.487,"text":"相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關的數字 相關"},{"start":431.486,"end":448.22,"text":"2024年你們也做了一個很重要的裁罰 就是針對那個全聯罰他們2000萬 因為他們在併購大論發的時候有承諾不採最惠客戶的政策結果顯然他們違反了顯然他們違反了 然後你們也罰了2000萬"},{"start":449.941,"end":475.977,"text":"那我想說是法爾2000萬之後全年就可以繼續用他們的一個最惠客戶政策的時候繼續壓迫所有的供應商因為很多的供應商 品牌商其實他們非常非常的意見覺得說在這樣的一個全年發展出來的寄售制而且全面使用寄售制的時候讓他們的生存產生很大的壓力我想針對這個部分的時候主委可不可以講一下"},{"start":476.677,"end":489.586,"text":"接下來怎麼處理全年的問題針對剛剛委員所談到那個最惠國待遇的那個價格的部分我們除了處罰他以外其實我們要教求他要停止所以他其實是不能再做那他如果繼續做呢繼續做我們當然繼續罰"},{"start":491.127,"end":518.527,"text":"多久罰一次?如果他有違法的事證我們經過調查的確有屬實違反我們當初所要求的當然我們還是可以...所以如果寄授制持續的在做的時候你們每個禮拜罰一次嗎?寄授跟那個賣斷是另外一個問題理解寄授跟賣斷的話因為他涉及到的是我們在當初結合的時候所以他只要說他如果說繼續採取最惠客戶政策的時候你們會持續的罰多久罰一次?就是違法事情經過委員討論認定是真的是違反了我們當初要求就還是可以再處罰"},{"start":519.167,"end":547.362,"text":"ok好理解喔那最後我再丟一個問題就是針對那個台製電的問題因為台製電是政府政策推出來希望讓開發商可以去融資然後讓小公司可以買到綠電基本上利益良善可是因為總經理社會社團的時候相關的問題的時候針對台製電他們接下來如果是壓價購電或者是提高售價這個部分我希望"},{"start":547.822,"end":567.856,"text":"那個公平會這邊有一個很清楚的一個立場我們在這個案子決定通過以後我們在新聞稿裡面有特別強調這個案子雖然通過但是事後我們還是持續觀察業者有沒有進行違反的這個綜藝性原則跟歧視性原則特別是針對那個買方價格的部分我們去看有沒有濫用市場地位的問題"},{"start":569.417,"end":581.787,"text":"因為這個部分對整個台灣的綠能的一個生態系來說是很重要的那我們希望公平郵件裡面能扮演更好的角色不要讓相關的人持續在當中劏髒玩法好不好謝謝謝謝曾振銓委員的資訊"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":489,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時58分）謝謝主席，我想請陳代理主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：委員早。"],["鄭委員正鈐：陳主委好。我想先請教一下，針對公平會有關的案子，如果有人檢舉之後，你們大概多久會立案？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：檢舉以後我們會看事證的程度，我們可能會進一步去了解，了解以後覺得有立案必要，我們就會立案。"],["鄭委員正鈐：一般大概要多久時間，如果資料也很充分、也很清楚？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：如果資料非常充分，我們一看認為大概就有嫌疑的話，可能當場立即就會立案。"],["鄭委員正鈐：立即立案，是不是？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，這聽起來非常的有效率。我要特別講一個案子，因為我們辦公室在6月12日的時候有收到民眾檢舉，而且是好幾個民眾一起到辦公室來，針對匯聚智能販賣機這個案子，6月12日他們到辦公室陳情的時候，我們當天就直接把資料送到公平會，你知道他們什麼時候才開始立案、開始啟動嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：因為這個加盟事件，有時候我們要比對他提供的事證到底跟我們處理原則是不是符合，所以有時候時間上會拖一點，先要去確認。"],["鄭委員正鈐：它拖了四個月，你知道嗎？上個禮拜公平會已經要開始做業報、要質詢了，上個禮拜才開始約業者過來，這四個月過程當中，我不知道還有多少民眾陷入這樣的陷阱當中，你知道在網路上面已經有好多的群組、社群，有上百人，大家在裡面分享他們如何的被匯聚欺負，這樣的狀態我們竟然還要等四個月的時間才開始立案調查，這四個月當中，有多少的民眾再踩到這個坑裡面去？我們不曉得！從6月到10月這四個月的期間，我不知道公平會在做什麼？針對這個部分我希望主委去好好了解一下，針對這個案子好好的去了解細節，因為有上百個人已經組成這樣子的社群，也有超過兩位數的人到我們辦公室來陳情，結果6月份我們把這個案子送到公平會，公平會竟然四個月之後才開始做，我不知道在這四個月當中，有這麼多的群眾踩到這個坑裡面，這算公平會的嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告，這個案子當然我們有立案，謝謝委員的提醒，我爾後會注意到這個問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，因為我們提供給你們的證據非常地清楚。因為公平會有一個公平交易委員會對於加盟業主經營行為案件之處理原則，它明顯的違反，它沒有給10天的合約審閱期，你知道嗎？也沒有給5天的契約審閱期，都沒有！這樣的狀態你們還覺得資料不夠完整，讓他們拖了四個月去坑更多的民眾。","針對這個部分，希望主委趕快去追究出來，它裡面其實有非常非常多的案子，包括可能一開始用詐欺的方式，告訴他們你只要繳85萬元，地點他幫你找，你到時候只要等著分紅就好，其他後續的東西他都幫你做，你只要出85萬元，後續你就等分紅。這樣的狀態竟然都還可以拖四個月，針對這部分的辦理時間，本席是非常地不諒解，所以希望主委趕快針對這部分去查一下，到底是怎麼一回事，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：接下來，我想針對臺泥這個案子，公平會這邊用了一個寬恕條例，讓檢舉臺泥的業者得到多少的寬恕？我不曉得，重點是北高行完全打臉了公平會，公平會處罰臺泥5,000萬的案子完全被駁回，另外還有一個2,000萬的案子，全部都被駁回。北高行直接講到公平會的證據不足、裁量理由不明確，甚至於連裁罰金額到底是怎麼樣算出來，都沒有做詳細的資料說明，沒有影音檔，也沒有譯文就直接裁罰。針對這個部分，主委要不要做個說明？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想聯合行為案子的處理、證據的蒐集，還有事證的調查，本來難度就比較高，但是我們在處理個案的時候，一定是盡全力的把證據蒐集好。這個案子，我想裡面有涉及到事實面的問題，可能法院跟我們的看法不一樣，也有法律面的問題，就是到底什麼情況底下構成聯合行為的合議，這個在實務上……"],["鄭委員正鈐：北高行直接講你們沒有附事證，你知道嗎？你們都沒有附事證，如果這樣的情況，同業當中他們用了一個寬恕條款來開始構陷同業爭取減罰，這樣的狀態你們買單嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：寬恕政策本來就是希望藉由提供減罰的方式來讓事業主管機關……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：所以這是必然一定會有這樣的情況，但是問題是法院對這個事情的看法，可能跟我們有點不太一樣。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，那我想問，因為10月1號北高行判決下來的時候，你們什麼時候收到這個文？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們這個禮拜收到。"],["鄭委員正鈐：這個禮拜收到，有20天的期限……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們應該會上訴。"],["鄭委員正鈐：你們會決定上訴？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們會上訴。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，我們希望公平會在處理所有裁罰案件的時候，要有很清楚的理由，因為北高行直接講說你們沒有附事證，感覺是沒有查清楚就開罰，還是說沒有準備充分就去打這個官司？我們希望公平會這兩個部分都能夠好好的處理，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們會就這兩點盡量去釐清，希望法院能夠接受我們的觀點。"],["鄭委員正鈐：另外，因為這邊有特別提到，你們在這一次針對罰鍰公式其實並沒有提供，我想請教過去5年公平會裁罰重大案件的時候，大概有多少件？你們之後給我一個詳細的書面資料，我想知道裁罰在1,000萬以上的案件，你們量處的依據跟整個計算邏輯是什麼，一併給我，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：委員，你是要這個……相關的書面資料？"],["鄭委員正鈐：相關的書面資料。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：好，可以。"],["鄭委員正鈐：對，就是這5年所有裁罰的統計數字，我想知道1,000萬以上，你們量處的罰鍰公式。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["鄭委員正鈐：另外一個部分，我想請教2024年你們也做了一個很重要的裁罰，就是針對全聯裁罰2,000萬，因為他們在併購大潤發的時候，有承諾不採最惠客戶政策，結果顯然他們違反了，然後你們也罰了2,000萬，我想是罰了2,000萬之後，全聯就可以繼續用最惠客戶政策壓迫所有的供應商，因為很多的供應商、品牌商，其實他們非常非常有意見，覺得全聯發展出來的寄售制，而且全面使用寄售制的時候，讓他們的生存產生很大的壓力，我想針對這個部分，主委可不可以講一下，接下來怎麼處理全聯的問題？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：針對剛剛委員所談到最惠國待遇的價格部分，我們除了處罰它以外，其實我們也要求它要停止，所以它其實是不能再做。"],["鄭委員正鈐：它如果繼續做呢？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：繼續做，我們當然繼續罰。"],["鄭委員正鈐：多久罰一次？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：如果它有違法的事證，我們經過調查的確有屬實違反我們當初所要求的，當然我們還是會……"],["鄭委員正鈐：如果寄售制持續在做，你們每個禮拜罰一次嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：寄售跟賣斷是另外一個問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：寄售跟賣斷的話，因為它涉及到是我們在當初結合的時候……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解，所以如果它繼續採取最惠客戶政策的時候，你們會持續的罰，多久罰一次？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對，就是違法事情、經過委員討論認定真的是違反我們當初要求的，就還是可以再處罰。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，好，理解。最後我再丟一個問題，就是針對台智電的問題，因為台智電是政府政策推出來的，希望讓開發商可以去融資、讓小公司可以買到綠電，基本上利益良善，可是因為總經理涉賄、涉貪或相關問題的時候，接下來針對台智電如果是壓價購電或提高售價的部分，我希望公平會能有一個很清楚的立場……"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們在這個案子決定通過……我們在新聞稿裡面有特別強調，這個案子雖然通過，但是事後我們還是持續觀察業者有沒有進行違反中立性原則跟歧視性原則，特別是針對買方價格的部分，我們去看有沒有濫用市場地位的問題，所以這個案子我們後續還會持續……"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，因為這個部分對整個臺灣綠能的生態系來說是很重要的，我們希望公平會能扮演更好的角色，不要讓相關的人持續在當中貪贓枉法，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["主席：謝謝鄭正鈐委員的質詢，謝謝主委。","我們現在請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-4","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","陳超明","鄭正鈐","黃國昌","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","蔡易餘"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00002"}}}