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\"start\": 475.008, \"end\": 475.268, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 475.268, \"end\": 475.288, \"score\": 0.946}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,746 --> 00:00:08,930\n謝謝主席請代理主委陳主委我們請陳主委謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:17,031 --> 00:00:29,034\n主委近年來多層次傳銷的在我們國內已經迅速的擴張了這個版圖那根據我們工評會在2024年多層次傳銷的這個事業經營的這個狀況的報告我們看到這個多層次傳銷它一年的銷售額高達了\n\n3\n00:00:38,437 --> 00:00:52,849\n零五十五億所以是相當經濟的規模那多層次傳銷的管理法它現在都是用報備制在報備制的執行當中我們看到很多違法的情形變成是假傳銷徵吸金\n\n4\n00:00:55,111 --> 00:01:20,108\n那我們舉例來說的話最近有發生這個爭議的就是愛美全球失業公司喔他在113年3月的時候跟我們公平會來做報備在今年114年7月的話就報停了所以我們很多民眾都質疑這個就是真詐騙那你們有沒有去關心到底受害者有哪些受害者損失的金額有多少有去做一個調查嗎\n\n5\n00:01:23,445 --> 00:01:39,922\n還是你事不關己沒有關於犯罪的部分我們已經有請法務部去進行調查那至於艾美公司這個行為有沒有違反多層次傳銷辦法我目前已經有立案的調查立案調查所以你對於受害的人有多少或者是金額有多少不知道受害人是有一些數目的225人225人金額呢總共是7900萬7900萬因為我們看到\n\n6\n00:01:47,662 --> 00:02:07,903\n公平會針對於這個我們整個多層次傳銷裡面你要看到的是不時廣告然後跟消費者有糾紛的所以在這種情況之下你們要去執行這個管理辦法的話要怎麼樣去深入執行才能夠保護到\n\n7\n00:02:09,645 --> 00:02:37,780\n這個傳銷商又能保護到消費者這是讓你們公平會要去執法的部分可是我們沒有看到公平會有確實去執法那尤其是我們看到這個114年8月報備的廠商傳銷商有384家這5年來總共發生違法的就有111件等於3家就有1家違法所以為什麼不能把報備制改為許可制我們嚴格管理一勞永逸\n\n8\n00:02:39,437 --> 00:03:03,525\n我想因為當初法律我們這個多層次傳媒剛剛有採取報備制主要是在尊重市場機制跟一定程度的監管之間取得一個平衡啦因為畢竟這個是一個行銷的一個方式我們原則上還是要尊重業者之間的願望主委你們還是老是說法啦就尊重市場機制競爭公平的方式但是你是執法單位你要怎麼樣去嚴格積極的去執法\n\n9\n00:03:05,566 --> 00:03:23,853\n你要說出來在現行的法規之下報備不報備變更報備不來報備這個我們都有處分就是你如果被如果有這樣違反多層次傳銷管理辦法規定我們都是會依法來處理所以諸位多層次傳銷的管理辦法第38條裡面的設立就是多層次傳銷\n\n10\n00:03:25,394 --> 00:03:50,891\n保護這個基金會你們設立這個保護基金會對不對就是傳銷事業跟傳銷商當中有任何糾紛的時候你們可以來訴訟幫忙訴訟跟待場的待位求償的部分嘛這些你都會來做對不對但是我們看到我們384家裡面我們的傳保會裡面完成的只有189家有做輔導佔的比例還沒有過半\n\n11\n00:03:52,185 --> 00:04:18,577\n所以有繳納這個保護基金的傳銷商也只有2634人佔比不到1%所以諸位你怎麼去嚴格執法呢跟委員報告一下這個輔導的部分因為大的傳銷公司他們機制本身內部都有相當完整的一個輔導的機制所以未必會來運用到傳保會這方面的機制那但是我們會積極的跟傳保會來合作看如何去輔導這個業者\n\n12\n00:04:20,373 --> 00:04:44,426\n主委我特別去研究這個保護基金會這保護是要保護誰傳銷商那為什麼他們都不來交保費保護基金的會費你們設定叫保護基金講起來就好像保護費那他們發生事情了你們實施了什麼功能去保護他們\n\n13\n00:04:45,447 --> 00:04:51,691\n就了解就是他們沒有繳這個費用基本上還是可以實施所以大家不用繳你還會保護他嗎如果一年的產值的話有20億要繳400萬的保護基金欸不低欸不少欸但是你沒有保護到他們啊\n\n14\n00:05:05,512 --> 00:05:21,111\n沒有保護到他們啊所以他們沒有來幫你繳這個保護基金也沒有來跟你繳保護費也沒有來繳會費都沒有所以質疑了公平會的能力效力是不是\n\n15\n00:05:22,444 --> 00:05:46,435\n我想就剛跟委員報告了那個輔導的部分除了這個船保會在做的以外其實大規模有制度的所以這整個市場的機制有問題了可不可以改為許可制每一年每一次委員都會問你可不可以改許可制為什麼不能改許可制重點審查一撈永逸不然你看你報備了這麼多家384家就111家都違法\n\n16\n00:05:49,565 --> 00:06:17,935\n你能如何處理你們的功能就等到見報發生了再來做亡羊補牢也沒有辦法處理所以許可制是一勞永逸敢不敢沒有其實平時我們都來做業務的調查業務的一個督導啦這個我們隨時會注意到有沒有所以要回歸到源頭啦只有許可制才可以從源頭來管理管控還可以控制整個機制不然的話真的是假傳銷真詐財你沒有辦法防範欸\n\n17\n00:06:19,042 --> 00:06:24,084\n那你要討論我就請教你一個問題好了消費者今天如果遇到廣告不實所導致的消費糾紛請問他要跟哪一個單位來投訴請問消費者發生這件事情要跟哪一個單位來投訴\n\n18\n00:06:43,308 --> 00:07:08,527\n如果它是不實廣告的話當然我們是要受理是公平會那是消費糾紛呢消費糾紛就是所以消保會嘛所以消保會跟公平會功能是不是重疊了我想還是不太一樣不實廣告讓消費者損失它發生消費糾紛耶這是一件事情兩個單位你們永遠在互踢皮球嘛\n\n19\n00:07:09,744 --> 00:07:21,665\n所以大家合併好了啊消保費的部分比較傾向於個案跟個別消費者受害而且消保費的立場會比較傾向於保護消費者就是有不死廣告才會有消費糾紛嘛我拿到東西我的權益受損了嘛\n\n20\n00:07:22,608 --> 00:07:50,986\n但是本會處理不實廣告是從市場不公平競爭的角度去切入啦那跟消保會還是不太一樣主委我認為還可以是原意啦是不是要合併啦反正你們人員7個人現在有5個人啦那消保會的話也是啊所以你們的功能是一樣重疊不如研議看看可不可以合併讓你們的功能可以發揮讓你們的效率可以達到保護我們的傳銷商我們的消費者好不好謝謝委員指導我們會再注意這個問題\n\n21\n00:07:52,119 --> 00:07:55,288\n谢谢谢谢李玉玲委员的咨询谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6746\t8930\t謝謝主席 請代理主委陳主委我們請陳主委 謝謝\n17031\t29034\t主委 近年來多層次傳銷的在我們國內已經迅速的擴張了這個版圖那根據我們工評會在2024年多層次傳銷的這個事業經營的這個狀況的報告我們看到這個多層次傳銷它一年的銷售額高達了\n38437\t52849\t零五十五億所以是相當經濟的規模那多層次傳銷的管理法它現在都是用報備制在報備制的執行當中我們看到很多違法的情形變成是假傳銷徵吸金\n55111\t80108\t那我們舉例來說的話最近有發生這個爭議的就是愛美全球失業公司喔他在113年3月的時候跟我們公平會來做報備在今年114年7月的話就報停了所以我們很多民眾都質疑這個就是真詐騙那你們有沒有去關心到底受害者有哪些受害者損失的金額有多少有去做一個調查嗎\n83445\t99922\t還是你事不關己沒有 關於犯罪的部分我們已經有請法務部去進行調查那至於艾美公司這個行為有沒有違反多層次傳銷辦法我目前已經有立案的調查立案調查所以你對於受害的人有多少或者是金額有多少不知道 受害人是有一些數目的225人225人 金額呢總共是7900萬7900萬因為我們看到\n107662\t127903\t公平會針對於這個我們整個多層次傳銷裡面你要看到的是不時廣告然後跟消費者有糾紛的所以在這種情況之下你們要去執行這個管理辦法的話要怎麼樣去深入執行才能夠保護到\n129645\t157780\t這個傳銷商又能保護到消費者這是讓你們公平會要去執法的部分可是我們沒有看到公平會有確實去執法那尤其是我們看到這個114年8月報備的廠商傳銷商有384家這5年來總共發生違法的就有111件等於3家就有1家違法所以為什麼不能把報備制改為許可制我們嚴格管理一勞永逸\n159437\t183525\t我想因為當初法律我們這個多層次傳媒剛剛有採取報備制主要是在尊重市場機制跟一定程度的監管之間取得一個平衡啦因為畢竟這個是一個行銷的一個方式我們原則上還是要尊重業者之間的願望主委你們還是老是說法啦就尊重市場機制競爭公平的方式但是你是執法單位你要怎麼樣去嚴格積極的去執法\n185566\t203853\t你要說出來在現行的法規之下報備不報備變更報備不來報備這個我們都有處分就是你如果被如果有這樣違反多層次傳銷管理辦法規定我們都是會依法來處理所以諸位多層次傳銷的管理辦法第38條裡面的設立就是多層次傳銷\n205394\t230891\t保護這個基金會你們設立這個保護基金會對不對就是傳銷事業跟傳銷商當中有任何糾紛的時候你們可以來訴訟幫忙訴訟跟待場的待位求償的部分嘛這些你都會來做對不對但是我們看到我們384家裡面我們的傳保會裡面完成的只有189家有做輔導佔的比例還沒有過半\n232185\t258577\t所以有繳納這個保護基金的傳銷商也只有2634人佔比不到1%所以 諸位你怎麼去嚴格執法呢跟委員報告一下這個輔導的部分因為大的傳銷公司他們機制本身內部都有相當完整的一個輔導的機制所以未必會來運用到傳保會這方面的機制那但是我們會積極的跟傳保會來合作看如何去輔導這個業者\n260373\t284426\t主委我特別去研究這個保護基金會這保護是要保護誰傳銷商那為什麼他們都不來交保費保護基金的會費你們設定叫保護基金講起來就好像保護費那他們發生事情了你們實施了什麼功能去保護他們\n285447\t291691\t就了解就是他們沒有繳這個費用基本上還是可以實施所以大家不用繳你還會保護他嗎如果一年的產值的話有20億要繳400萬的保護基金欸不低欸 不少欸但是你沒有保護到他們啊\n305512\t321111\t沒有保護到他們啊所以他們沒有來幫你繳這個保護基金也沒有來跟你繳保護費也沒有來繳會費都沒有所以質疑了公平會的能力效力是不是\n322444\t346435\t我想就剛跟委員報告了那個輔導的部分除了這個船保會在做的以外其實大規模有制度的所以這整個市場的機制有問題了可不可以改為許可制每一年每一次委員都會問你可不可以改許可制為什麼不能改許可制重點審查一撈永逸不然你看你報備了這麼多家384家就111家都違法\n349565\t377935\t你能如何處理你們的功能就等到見報發生了再來做亡羊補牢也沒有辦法處理所以許可制是一勞永逸 敢不敢沒有 其實平時我們都來做業務的調查業務的一個督導啦這個我們隨時會注意到有沒有所以要回歸到源頭啦只有許可制才可以從源頭來管理管控還可以控制整個機制不然的話真的是假傳銷真詐財你沒有辦法防範欸\n379042\t384084\t那你要討論 我就請教你一個問題好了消費者今天如果遇到廣告不實所導致的消費糾紛請問他要跟哪一個單位來投訴請問消費者發生這件事情要跟哪一個單位來投訴\n403308\t428527\t如果它是不實廣告的話 當然我們是要受理是公平會 那是消費糾紛呢消費糾紛就是所以消保會嘛所以消保會跟公平會功能是不是重疊了我想還是不太一樣 不實廣告讓消費者損失它發生消費糾紛耶 這是一件事情兩個單位 你們永遠在互踢皮球嘛\n429744\t441665\t所以大家合併好了啊消保費的部分比較傾向於個案跟個別消費者受害而且消保費的立場會比較傾向於保護消費者就是有不死廣告才會有消費糾紛嘛我拿到東西 我的權益受損了嘛\n442608\t470986\t但是本會處理不實廣告是從市場不公平競爭的角度去切入啦那跟消保會還是不太一樣主委我認為還可以是原意啦是不是要合併啦反正你們人員7個人現在有5個人啦那消保會的話也是啊所以你們的功能是一樣重疊不如研議看看可不可以合併讓你們的功能可以發揮讓你們的效率可以達到保護我們的傳銷商我們的消費者好不好謝謝委員指導我們會再注意這個問題\n472119\t475288\t谢谢 谢谢李玉玲委员的咨询 谢谢\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請代理主委陳主委我們請陳主委 謝謝\n主委 近年來多層次傳銷的在我們國內已經迅速的擴張了這個版圖那根據我們工評會在2024年多層次傳銷的這個事業經營的這個狀況的報告我們看到這個多層次傳銷它一年的銷售額高達了\n零五十五億所以是相當經濟的規模那多層次傳銷的管理法它現在都是用報備制在報備制的執行當中我們看到很多違法的情形變成是假傳銷徵吸金\n那我們舉例來說的話最近有發生這個爭議的就是愛美全球失業公司喔他在113年3月的時候跟我們公平會來做報備在今年114年7月的話就報停了所以我們很多民眾都質疑這個就是真詐騙那你們有沒有去關心到底受害者有哪些受害者損失的金額有多少有去做一個調查嗎\n還是你事不關己沒有 關於犯罪的部分我們已經有請法務部去進行調查那至於艾美公司這個行為有沒有違反多層次傳銷辦法我目前已經有立案的調查立案調查所以你對於受害的人有多少或者是金額有多少不知道 受害人是有一些數目的225人225人 金額呢總共是7900萬7900萬因為我們看到\n公平會針對於這個我們整個多層次傳銷裡面你要看到的是不時廣告然後跟消費者有糾紛的所以在這種情況之下你們要去執行這個管理辦法的話要怎麼樣去深入執行才能夠保護到\n這個傳銷商又能保護到消費者這是讓你們公平會要去執法的部分可是我們沒有看到公平會有確實去執法那尤其是我們看到這個114年8月報備的廠商傳銷商有384家這5年來總共發生違法的就有111件等於3家就有1家違法所以為什麼不能把報備制改為許可制我們嚴格管理一勞永逸\n我想因為當初法律我們這個多層次傳媒剛剛有採取報備制主要是在尊重市場機制跟一定程度的監管之間取得一個平衡啦因為畢竟這個是一個行銷的一個方式我們原則上還是要尊重業者之間的願望主委你們還是老是說法啦就尊重市場機制競爭公平的方式但是你是執法單位你要怎麼樣去嚴格積極的去執法\n你要說出來在現行的法規之下報備不報備變更報備不來報備這個我們都有處分就是你如果被如果有這樣違反多層次傳銷管理辦法規定我們都是會依法來處理所以諸位多層次傳銷的管理辦法第38條裡面的設立就是多層次傳銷\n保護這個基金會你們設立這個保護基金會對不對就是傳銷事業跟傳銷商當中有任何糾紛的時候你們可以來訴訟幫忙訴訟跟待場的待位求償的部分嘛這些你都會來做對不對但是我們看到我們384家裡面我們的傳保會裡面完成的只有189家有做輔導佔的比例還沒有過半\n所以有繳納這個保護基金的傳銷商也只有2634人佔比不到1%所以 諸位你怎麼去嚴格執法呢跟委員報告一下這個輔導的部分因為大的傳銷公司他們機制本身內部都有相當完整的一個輔導的機制所以未必會來運用到傳保會這方面的機制那但是我們會積極的跟傳保會來合作看如何去輔導這個業者\n主委我特別去研究這個保護基金會這保護是要保護誰傳銷商那為什麼他們都不來交保費保護基金的會費你們設定叫保護基金講起來就好像保護費那他們發生事情了你們實施了什麼功能去保護他們\n就了解就是他們沒有繳這個費用基本上還是可以實施所以大家不用繳你還會保護他嗎如果一年的產值的話有20億要繳400萬的保護基金欸不低欸 不少欸但是你沒有保護到他們啊\n沒有保護到他們啊所以他們沒有來幫你繳這個保護基金也沒有來跟你繳保護費也沒有來繳會費都沒有所以質疑了公平會的能力效力是不是\n我想就剛跟委員報告了那個輔導的部分除了這個船保會在做的以外其實大規模有制度的所以這整個市場的機制有問題了可不可以改為許可制每一年每一次委員都會問你可不可以改許可制為什麼不能改許可制重點審查一撈永逸不然你看你報備了這麼多家384家就111家都違法\n你能如何處理你們的功能就等到見報發生了再來做亡羊補牢也沒有辦法處理所以許可制是一勞永逸 敢不敢沒有 其實平時我們都來做業務的調查業務的一個督導啦這個我們隨時會注意到有沒有所以要回歸到源頭啦只有許可制才可以從源頭來管理管控還可以控制整個機制不然的話真的是假傳銷真詐財你沒有辦法防範欸\n那你要討論 我就請教你一個問題好了消費者今天如果遇到廣告不實所導致的消費糾紛請問他要跟哪一個單位來投訴請問消費者發生這件事情要跟哪一個單位來投訴\n如果它是不實廣告的話 當然我們是要受理是公平會 那是消費糾紛呢消費糾紛就是所以消保會嘛所以消保會跟公平會功能是不是重疊了我想還是不太一樣 不實廣告讓消費者損失它發生消費糾紛耶 這是一件事情兩個單位 你們永遠在互踢皮球嘛\n所以大家合併好了啊消保費的部分比較傾向於個案跟個別消費者受害而且消保費的立場會比較傾向於保護消費者就是有不死廣告才會有消費糾紛嘛我拿到東西 我的權益受損了嘛\n但是本會處理不實廣告是從市場不公平競爭的角度去切入啦那跟消保會還是不太一樣主委我認為還可以是原意啦是不是要合併啦反正你們人員7個人現在有5個人啦那消保會的話也是啊所以你們的功能是一樣重疊不如研議看看可不可以合併讓你們的功能可以發揮讓你們的效率可以達到保護我們的傳銷商我們的消費者好不好謝謝委員指導我們會再注意這個問題\n谢谢 谢谢李玉玲委员的咨询 谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.746 --> 00:08.930\n謝謝主席請代理主委陳主委我們請陳主委謝謝\n\n00:17.031 --> 00:29.034\n主委近年來多層次傳銷的在我們國內已經迅速的擴張了這個版圖那根據我們工評會在2024年多層次傳銷的這個事業經營的這個狀況的報告我們看到這個多層次傳銷它一年的銷售額高達了\n\n00:38.437 --> 00:52.849\n零五十五億所以是相當經濟的規模那多層次傳銷的管理法它現在都是用報備制在報備制的執行當中我們看到很多違法的情形變成是假傳銷徵吸金\n\n00:55.111 --> 01:20.108\n那我們舉例來說的話最近有發生這個爭議的就是愛美全球失業公司喔他在113年3月的時候跟我們公平會來做報備在今年114年7月的話就報停了所以我們很多民眾都質疑這個就是真詐騙那你們有沒有去關心到底受害者有哪些受害者損失的金額有多少有去做一個調查嗎\n\n01:23.445 --> 01:39.922\n還是你事不關己沒有關於犯罪的部分我們已經有請法務部去進行調查那至於艾美公司這個行為有沒有違反多層次傳銷辦法我目前已經有立案的調查立案調查所以你對於受害的人有多少或者是金額有多少不知道受害人是有一些數目的225人225人金額呢總共是7900萬7900萬因為我們看到\n\n01:47.662 --> 02:07.903\n公平會針對於這個我們整個多層次傳銷裡面你要看到的是不時廣告然後跟消費者有糾紛的所以在這種情況之下你們要去執行這個管理辦法的話要怎麼樣去深入執行才能夠保護到\n\n02:09.645 --> 02:37.780\n這個傳銷商又能保護到消費者這是讓你們公平會要去執法的部分可是我們沒有看到公平會有確實去執法那尤其是我們看到這個114年8月報備的廠商傳銷商有384家這5年來總共發生違法的就有111件等於3家就有1家違法所以為什麼不能把報備制改為許可制我們嚴格管理一勞永逸\n\n02:39.437 --> 03:03.525\n我想因為當初法律我們這個多層次傳媒剛剛有採取報備制主要是在尊重市場機制跟一定程度的監管之間取得一個平衡啦因為畢竟這個是一個行銷的一個方式我們原則上還是要尊重業者之間的願望主委你們還是老是說法啦就尊重市場機制競爭公平的方式但是你是執法單位你要怎麼樣去嚴格積極的去執法\n\n03:05.566 --> 03:23.853\n你要說出來在現行的法規之下報備不報備變更報備不來報備這個我們都有處分就是你如果被如果有這樣違反多層次傳銷管理辦法規定我們都是會依法來處理所以諸位多層次傳銷的管理辦法第38條裡面的設立就是多層次傳銷\n\n03:25.394 --> 03:50.891\n保護這個基金會你們設立這個保護基金會對不對就是傳銷事業跟傳銷商當中有任何糾紛的時候你們可以來訴訟幫忙訴訟跟待場的待位求償的部分嘛這些你都會來做對不對但是我們看到我們384家裡面我們的傳保會裡面完成的只有189家有做輔導佔的比例還沒有過半\n\n03:52.185 --> 04:18.577\n所以有繳納這個保護基金的傳銷商也只有2634人佔比不到1%所以諸位你怎麼去嚴格執法呢跟委員報告一下這個輔導的部分因為大的傳銷公司他們機制本身內部都有相當完整的一個輔導的機制所以未必會來運用到傳保會這方面的機制那但是我們會積極的跟傳保會來合作看如何去輔導這個業者\n\n04:20.373 --> 04:44.426\n主委我特別去研究這個保護基金會這保護是要保護誰傳銷商那為什麼他們都不來交保費保護基金的會費你們設定叫保護基金講起來就好像保護費那他們發生事情了你們實施了什麼功能去保護他們\n\n04:45.447 --> 04:51.691\n就了解就是他們沒有繳這個費用基本上還是可以實施所以大家不用繳你還會保護他嗎如果一年的產值的話有20億要繳400萬的保護基金欸不低欸不少欸但是你沒有保護到他們啊\n\n05:05.512 --> 05:21.111\n沒有保護到他們啊所以他們沒有來幫你繳這個保護基金也沒有來跟你繳保護費也沒有來繳會費都沒有所以質疑了公平會的能力效力是不是\n\n05:22.444 --> 05:46.435\n我想就剛跟委員報告了那個輔導的部分除了這個船保會在做的以外其實大規模有制度的所以這整個市場的機制有問題了可不可以改為許可制每一年每一次委員都會問你可不可以改許可制為什麼不能改許可制重點審查一撈永逸不然你看你報備了這麼多家384家就111家都違法\n\n05:49.565 --> 06:17.935\n你能如何處理你們的功能就等到見報發生了再來做亡羊補牢也沒有辦法處理所以許可制是一勞永逸敢不敢沒有其實平時我們都來做業務的調查業務的一個督導啦這個我們隨時會注意到有沒有所以要回歸到源頭啦只有許可制才可以從源頭來管理管控還可以控制整個機制不然的話真的是假傳銷真詐財你沒有辦法防範欸\n\n06:19.042 --> 06:24.084\n那你要討論我就請教你一個問題好了消費者今天如果遇到廣告不實所導致的消費糾紛請問他要跟哪一個單位來投訴請問消費者發生這件事情要跟哪一個單位來投訴\n\n06:43.308 --> 07:08.527\n如果它是不實廣告的話當然我們是要受理是公平會那是消費糾紛呢消費糾紛就是所以消保會嘛所以消保會跟公平會功能是不是重疊了我想還是不太一樣不實廣告讓消費者損失它發生消費糾紛耶這是一件事情兩個單位你們永遠在互踢皮球嘛\n\n07:09.744 --> 07:21.665\n所以大家合併好了啊消保費的部分比較傾向於個案跟個別消費者受害而且消保費的立場會比較傾向於保護消費者就是有不死廣告才會有消費糾紛嘛我拿到東西我的權益受損了嘛\n\n07:22.608 --> 07:50.986\n但是本會處理不實廣告是從市場不公平競爭的角度去切入啦那跟消保會還是不太一樣主委我認為還可以是原意啦是不是要合併啦反正你們人員7個人現在有5個人啦那消保會的話也是啊所以你們的功能是一樣重疊不如研議看看可不可以合併讓你們的功能可以發揮讓你們的效率可以達到保護我們的傳銷商我們的消費者好不好謝謝委員指導我們會再注意這個問題\n\n07:52.119 --> 07:55.288\n谢谢谢谢李玉玲委员的咨询谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.746,"end":8.93,"text":"謝謝主席 請代理主委陳主委我們請陳主委 謝謝"},{"start":17.031,"end":29.034,"text":"主委 近年來多層次傳銷的在我們國內已經迅速的擴張了這個版圖那根據我們工評會在2024年多層次傳銷的這個事業經營的這個狀況的報告我們看到這個多層次傳銷它一年的銷售額高達了"},{"start":38.437,"end":52.849,"text":"零五十五億所以是相當經濟的規模那多層次傳銷的管理法它現在都是用報備制在報備制的執行當中我們看到很多違法的情形變成是假傳銷徵吸金"},{"start":55.111,"end":80.108,"text":"那我們舉例來說的話最近有發生這個爭議的就是愛美全球失業公司喔他在113年3月的時候跟我們公平會來做報備在今年114年7月的話就報停了所以我們很多民眾都質疑這個就是真詐騙那你們有沒有去關心到底受害者有哪些受害者損失的金額有多少有去做一個調查嗎"},{"start":83.445,"end":99.922,"text":"還是你事不關己沒有 關於犯罪的部分我們已經有請法務部去進行調查那至於艾美公司這個行為有沒有違反多層次傳銷辦法我目前已經有立案的調查立案調查所以你對於受害的人有多少或者是金額有多少不知道 受害人是有一些數目的225人225人 金額呢總共是7900萬7900萬因為我們看到"},{"start":107.662,"end":127.903,"text":"公平會針對於這個我們整個多層次傳銷裡面你要看到的是不時廣告然後跟消費者有糾紛的所以在這種情況之下你們要去執行這個管理辦法的話要怎麼樣去深入執行才能夠保護到"},{"start":129.645,"end":157.78,"text":"這個傳銷商又能保護到消費者這是讓你們公平會要去執法的部分可是我們沒有看到公平會有確實去執法那尤其是我們看到這個114年8月報備的廠商傳銷商有384家這5年來總共發生違法的就有111件等於3家就有1家違法所以為什麼不能把報備制改為許可制我們嚴格管理一勞永逸"},{"start":159.437,"end":183.525,"text":"我想因為當初法律我們這個多層次傳媒剛剛有採取報備制主要是在尊重市場機制跟一定程度的監管之間取得一個平衡啦因為畢竟這個是一個行銷的一個方式我們原則上還是要尊重業者之間的願望主委你們還是老是說法啦就尊重市場機制競爭公平的方式但是你是執法單位你要怎麼樣去嚴格積極的去執法"},{"start":185.566,"end":203.853,"text":"你要說出來在現行的法規之下報備不報備變更報備不來報備這個我們都有處分就是你如果被如果有這樣違反多層次傳銷管理辦法規定我們都是會依法來處理所以諸位多層次傳銷的管理辦法第38條裡面的設立就是多層次傳銷"},{"start":205.394,"end":230.891,"text":"保護這個基金會你們設立這個保護基金會對不對就是傳銷事業跟傳銷商當中有任何糾紛的時候你們可以來訴訟幫忙訴訟跟待場的待位求償的部分嘛這些你都會來做對不對但是我們看到我們384家裡面我們的傳保會裡面完成的只有189家有做輔導佔的比例還沒有過半"},{"start":232.185,"end":258.577,"text":"所以有繳納這個保護基金的傳銷商也只有2634人佔比不到1%所以 諸位你怎麼去嚴格執法呢跟委員報告一下這個輔導的部分因為大的傳銷公司他們機制本身內部都有相當完整的一個輔導的機制所以未必會來運用到傳保會這方面的機制那但是我們會積極的跟傳保會來合作看如何去輔導這個業者"},{"start":260.373,"end":284.426,"text":"主委我特別去研究這個保護基金會這保護是要保護誰傳銷商那為什麼他們都不來交保費保護基金的會費你們設定叫保護基金講起來就好像保護費那他們發生事情了你們實施了什麼功能去保護他們"},{"start":285.447,"end":291.691,"text":"就了解就是他們沒有繳這個費用基本上還是可以實施所以大家不用繳你還會保護他嗎如果一年的產值的話有20億要繳400萬的保護基金欸不低欸 不少欸但是你沒有保護到他們啊"},{"start":305.512,"end":321.111,"text":"沒有保護到他們啊所以他們沒有來幫你繳這個保護基金也沒有來跟你繳保護費也沒有來繳會費都沒有所以質疑了公平會的能力效力是不是"},{"start":322.444,"end":346.435,"text":"我想就剛跟委員報告了那個輔導的部分除了這個船保會在做的以外其實大規模有制度的所以這整個市場的機制有問題了可不可以改為許可制每一年每一次委員都會問你可不可以改許可制為什麼不能改許可制重點審查一撈永逸不然你看你報備了這麼多家384家就111家都違法"},{"start":349.565,"end":377.935,"text":"你能如何處理你們的功能就等到見報發生了再來做亡羊補牢也沒有辦法處理所以許可制是一勞永逸 敢不敢沒有 其實平時我們都來做業務的調查業務的一個督導啦這個我們隨時會注意到有沒有所以要回歸到源頭啦只有許可制才可以從源頭來管理管控還可以控制整個機制不然的話真的是假傳銷真詐財你沒有辦法防範欸"},{"start":379.042,"end":384.084,"text":"那你要討論 我就請教你一個問題好了消費者今天如果遇到廣告不實所導致的消費糾紛請問他要跟哪一個單位來投訴請問消費者發生這件事情要跟哪一個單位來投訴"},{"start":403.308,"end":428.527,"text":"如果它是不實廣告的話 當然我們是要受理是公平會 那是消費糾紛呢消費糾紛就是所以消保會嘛所以消保會跟公平會功能是不是重疊了我想還是不太一樣 不實廣告讓消費者損失它發生消費糾紛耶 這是一件事情兩個單位 你們永遠在互踢皮球嘛"},{"start":429.744,"end":441.665,"text":"所以大家合併好了啊消保費的部分比較傾向於個案跟個別消費者受害而且消保費的立場會比較傾向於保護消費者就是有不死廣告才會有消費糾紛嘛我拿到東西 我的權益受損了嘛"},{"start":442.608,"end":470.986,"text":"但是本會處理不實廣告是從市場不公平競爭的角度去切入啦那跟消保會還是不太一樣主委我認為還可以是原意啦是不是要合併啦反正你們人員7個人現在有5個人啦那消保會的話也是啊所以你們的功能是一樣重疊不如研議看看可不可以合併讓你們的功能可以發揮讓你們的效率可以達到保護我們的傳銷商我們的消費者好不好謝謝委員指導我們會再注意這個問題"},{"start":472.119,"end":475.288,"text":"谢谢 谢谢李玉玲委员的咨询 谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":602,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（11時15分）謝謝主席。請陳代理主委。"],["主席：我們請陳主委，謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，近年來多層次傳銷在我們國內已經迅速擴張版圖，根據公平會在2024年多層次傳銷事業經營狀況的報告，我們看到多層次傳銷一年的銷售額高達了1,055億，所以是有相當經濟規模。多層次傳銷管理法現在都是用報備制，在報備制的執行當中，我們看到很多違法的情形，變成是假傳銷、真吸金，舉例來說，最近有發生爭議的愛美全球事業有限公司，他在113年3月的時候跟公平會報備，在今（114）年7月就報停，所以很多民眾都質疑這就是真詐騙，你們有沒有去關心到底有哪些受害者？損失的金額有多少？有去做一個調查嗎？還是你事不關己？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：沒有，關於犯罪的部分，我們已經有請法務部進行調查，至於愛美公司這個行為有沒有違反多層次傳銷辦法，我們目前已經有立案在調查。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你對於受害的人有多少，或者是金額有多少，不知道？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：受害人是有一些數目，225人。"],["呂委員玉玲：金額呢？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：總共是7,900萬。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為我們看到公平會針對整個多層次傳銷裡面，你要看到的是不實廣告、跟消費者有糾紛的，在這種情況之下，你們要去執行這個管理辦法，要怎麼樣去深入執行才能夠保護到傳銷商，又能保護到消費者？這是你們公平會要去執法的部分，可是我們沒有看到公平會確實去執法。尤其我們看到114年8月，報備的廠商（傳銷商）有384家，這五年來總共發生違法的就有111件，等於3家就有1家違法，所以為什麼不能把報備制改為許可制，我們嚴格管理、一勞永逸？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想當初法律，我們這個多層次傳管理法採取報備制，主要是尊重市場機制跟一定程度的監管之間取得一個平衡，因為畢竟這是一個行銷的方式，我們原則上還是要尊重業者之間的約定。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，你們還是老式說法，說尊重市場機制、競爭公平的方式，但是你是執法單位，你要怎麼樣去嚴格、積極地去執法，你要說出來啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：有啊！在現行的法規之下，報備、不報備、變更報備、不來報備，這個我們都有處分，如果有違反多層次傳銷管理法規定，我們都是會依法來處理。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，多層次傳銷管理法第三十八條規定「主管機關應指定經報備之多層次傳銷事業，捐助一定財產，設立保護機構，辦理完成報備之多層次傳銷事業與傳銷商權益保障及爭議處理業務。其捐助數額得抵充第二項保護基金及年費。」，即傳銷事業跟傳銷商當中有任何糾紛的時候，你們可以來幫忙訴訟跟代位求償的部分，這些你都會來做，對不對？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：但是我們看到384家裡面，傳保會裡面完成的只有189家有做輔導，占的比例還沒有過半！所以有繳納保護基金的傳銷商也只有2,634人，占比不到1%，主委，你怎麼去嚴格執法呢？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告一下，輔導的部分，因為大的傳銷公司，他們本身內部都有相當完整的輔導機制，所以未必會運用到傳保會這方面的機制，但是我們會積極地跟傳保會合作，看如何去輔導業者。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，我特別去研究保護基金會，這保護是要保護誰？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：傳銷商。"],["呂委員玉玲：那為什麼他們都不來繳保費？保護基金的會費？你們設定叫保護基金，講起來就好像保護費，那他們發生事情了，你們實施了什麼功能去保護他們？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：據了解，他們沒有繳這個費用，基本上還是可以實施……還是可以來請求……"],["呂委員玉玲：對啊，所以就算大家不繳，你還是會保護他嘛！如果一年他們的產值有20億的話，要繳400萬的保護基金，不低也不少耶，但是你沒有保護到他們，所以他們沒有繳保護基金，沒有來跟你繳保護費，也沒有來繳會費，都沒有，他們質疑公平會的能力、效力，是不是？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想就如同剛剛跟委員報告的，輔導的部分，除了傳保會在做的以外，其實大規模有制度的……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以這整個市場的機制有問題了，可不可以改為許可制？每一年、每一次委員都會問你，可不可以改許可制，為什麼不能改許可制？從嚴審查、一勞永逸，不然你看報備了這麼多家，384家就有111家都違法，你能如何處理？你們的功能就等到見報、發生了，再來亡羊補牢，也沒有辦法處理，所以許可制是一勞永逸，改不改？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：沒有，其實平時我們都有做業務的調查、業務的督導，我們隨時會注意有沒有違法。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以要回歸到源頭啦，只有許可制才可以從源頭來管理管控，還可以控制整個機制，不然的話，真的是假傳銷、真詐財，你沒有辦法防範的。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想是不是採許可制，這可以討論，但是……"],["呂委員玉玲：那你要討論，我就請教你一個問題，消費者今天如果遇到廣告不實所導致的消費糾紛，請問他要跟哪一個單位來投訴？請問消費者若發生這件事情要跟哪一個單位來投訴？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：如果他是不實廣告的話，當然我們是要受理。"],["呂委員玉玲：是公平會。但是消費糾紛呢？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：消費糾紛就是屬於消保會。"],["呂委員玉玲：消保會，所以消保會跟公平會的功能是不是重疊了？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想還是不太一樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：這是一件事情。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：還是不太一樣"],["呂委員玉玲：不實廣告讓消費者損失，它發生了消費糾紛，這是一件事情，兩個單位你們永遠在互踢皮球嘛，所以乾脆合併好了啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：消保會的部分比較傾向於個案跟個別消費者受害，而且消保會立場會比較傾向保護消費者。"],["呂委員玉玲：就是有不實廣告才會有消費糾紛嘛，我拿到東西，我說我的權益受損了。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：但是本會處理不實廣告是從市場不公平競爭角度去切入，跟消保會還是不太一樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，我認為還是可以研議是不是要合併，反正你們人員7個人，現在有5個人，消保會也是啊，所以你們的功能是一樣的有重疊的，不如研議看看可不可以合併，讓你們的功能可以發揮，讓你們效率可以達到保護我們的傳銷商、我們的消費者，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：謝謝委員指導，我們會再注意這個問題。"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員的質詢。謝謝主委。","現在請何欣純、何欣純，何欣純委員不在。","請陳冠廷、陳冠廷，陳冠廷委員不在。","請馬文君、馬文君，馬文君委員不在。","請林楚茵、林楚茵，林楚茵委員不在。","請徐欣瑩、徐欣瑩，徐欣瑩委員不在。","請林思銘、林思銘，林思銘委員不在。","張嘉郡委員到了嗎？兩位委員都在路上，不好意思，因為我們現在電梯很難等，比較不好意思，我們等一下，兩個委員都卡在電梯，待會哪一個委員先到，我們請哪一個委員先質詢。我們現在等電梯都要非常長的時間，大概等6、7分鐘是常常有的，所以不好意思等一下。","我們請張嘉郡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-4","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","邱志偉","謝衣鳯","賴瑞隆","陳超明","鄭正鈐","黃國昌","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","蔡易餘"],"page_start":69,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請公平交易委員會代理主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00002"}}}