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\"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 605.99, \"end\": 606.37, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 606.37, \"end\": 606.39, \"score\": 0.505}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,209 --> 00:00:07,398\n好謝謝主席我們請劉部長那請警政署張署長也準備一下好了請劉部長張署長委員好部長剛剛我們聽到您和前一位委員這個有一點這個\n\n2\n00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:43,422\n激烈的交鋒那我們其實想把這個問題再做一個延續跟澄清一下今天全國我相信不分政黨大家都因為接受到了錦霄海巡移民空情人員大家的保護所以我們同樣不分政黨我們都認為政府應該要做錦霄海巡移民空情人員的後盾這個大家都同意嗎沒有問題吧在場有人有反對的嗎沒有好\n\n3\n00:00:45,143 --> 00:00:58,349\n所以我們在他們正常的薪資給付之外如果他們特別從事一些危險的工作我們覺得他們太辛苦了我們實在是可以表示敬意的唯一最好的做法就是給他加薪加津貼所以其實我們在這個113年的時候政府就已經核定了要做這個危老的津貼再做加擠113年的6月1號開始實施\n\n4\n00:01:13,436 --> 00:01:20,966\n好那麼我們現在要繼續增加不管是在警察或者是消防大家都認為我們可以討論喔因為這樣實施一年了覺得可以甚至是有沒有這個誰可以領要領多少等等各種面向要再做一個討論\n\n5\n00:01:30,399 --> 00:01:39,692\n可是問題是在於部長你可以再明確的說出來這個方向如果執行下去的話其實就是錢誰出嘛就是這麼簡單的問題錢誰出所以這個歸程加擠津貼加擠的\n\n6\n00:01:45,920 --> 00:02:00,285\n條件規則一旦通過了之後請問這筆預算誰出報告中央跟地方都有中央跟地方都有中央比較多還是地方比較多因為地方有22個縣市所以地方上比較多這是怎麼區分呢\n\n7\n00:02:01,125 --> 00:02:18,321\n第一個譬如說警政警政如果他是特種警察保警的部分的話保一到保七那就是由警政署要支付那編列在我們警政部的預算但是如果他是縣市地方政府警察從台北到金門馬祖澎湖這些都是由縣市政府那消防呢消防的話也一樣嗎哪白蕭署長也一樣嗎也是中央跟地方嗎\n\n8\n00:02:24,881 --> 00:02:50,466\n中央目前是特種搜救隊跟港務消防隊那縣市就縣市來好所以同樣是消防同樣是警察就是因為他的職務類別不同他歸件的是在歸件中央直接管的還是是他在地方服務就是地方大家其實剛剛所有地方來的委員在講的地方的警察地方的消防人員其實這些辛苦的同仁他們的錢甚至是加擠的津貼都是由地方政府支付的我這樣說對嗎對\n\n9\n00:02:52,006 --> 00:02:54,687\n完全正確嘛對不對好那現在我們大家在這個會議上都同意了要增加津貼請問各縣市政府各地方縣市政府有沒有哪一些現在還沒有回報你說他同意的大家在這裡都說同意了嘛好那現在開會啊那我們說這個直轄市我們北北桃好了北北桃直轄市\n\n10\n00:03:16,036 --> 00:03:22,919\n我先管我的北部好了因為我等一下要問你的人力的部分也是跟北北桃我用這三個做比較昨天我們有請警察局跟縣市長來做一些聯繫警政的部分台北市、新北市、桃園市這三個比較他們的意見台北市目前是在嚴厲當中就是還沒有同意\n\n11\n00:03:35,805 --> 00:03:42,333\n演繹當中沒有講說同意或不同意台北市還沒有反應演繹當中新北市是同意桃園市同意這是警察那消防呢我要北北桃\n\n12\n00:03:49,949 --> 00:04:11,881\n因為你的人數比差太多了我想用北北桃做一個比較基準台北市初步同意在年度預算裡面的條件但是新增的機會要跟市長做面包所以台北市也還沒有說好台北市是同意那桃園是同意都同意那所以這些同意的狀況下那不同意的縣市是\n\n13\n00:04:15,165 --> 00:04:21,749\n不同意的縣市還有占多少沒有不同意說不支持但是他們說他們要由中央來負擔這樣子所以啦我們大家雖然都同意可是還有至少就我的理解的話其實是13個已經表達同意了嘛對不對13個同意那我們全部的22個縣市裡面13個同意那就是等於還有將近三分之一\n\n14\n00:04:42,842 --> 00:04:47,145\n其實是還沒有跟你回復這樣的狀況嘛那所以在這樣的狀況下請問要怎麼處理這個部分你可以請他們加速嗎我們要同意的是不是可以請他繼續增加可以加快腳步同意嗎不然的話等於是他們綁住了大家啊不是嗎\n\n15\n00:04:59,733 --> 00:05:04,496\n中央也同意嘛中央已經朝這個方向推進了啊地方如果有這樣狀況的話其實應該是把這個壓力是到各地方縣市政府那些還沒有表態的其實應該要表態啊或者是你要研議其他的方式啊所以這是第一個這樣子的狀況啦那第二個我想跟警政署這邊直接再討論一下這個津貼的部分其實我們要討論津貼的部分\n\n16\n00:05:26,088 --> 00:05:42,145\n應該是要說齁其實大家今天既然都同意了這個方向這個方向是要可以增加的原因是因為我們現在在看的當時當時這個支付表當中呢當時支付表當中有一個是你認為說他們是應該要按照\n\n17\n00:05:50,113 --> 00:06:02,637\n深夜執行駐地外勤務所以每人每小時發給新台幣100元的深夜圍牢津貼嘛在內政部的報告裡面蕭署長可以請回沒有關係那其實在這個內政部的報告裡面特別指出是有駐地外這三個字的報告的描述可是如果是我們在這個圍牢津貼\n\n18\n00:06:14,401 --> 00:06:20,085\n危老勤務津貼之極表當中其實並沒有看到住地外三個字所以我想特別請署長這邊你解釋一下我們如果用住地內外用地區性來分的話是符合現在這樣的所謂危老的部分嗎或者是如果我們要調整家計的話我們的方向會是什麼狀況\n\n19\n00:06:36,167 --> 00:07:04,721\n跟委員報告就是去年6月的這個通過這個森林圍牢加擠的這個加擠那當時大概就是以駐地外的勤怒的一個執行為原則那不過我們這個實施一年之後我們有做通盤的這個考量我們在6月32號也有邀集各鄉來做討論就是說這一些森林圍牢加擠都是外勤的同齡去執行勤怒包括有值班備勤巡邏的這些的勤怒那對於這個\n\n20\n00:07:06,312 --> 00:07:34,373\n目前的值班跟背景是沒辦法去做支領但是我們研議就是這一些的值班跟背景仍然也有遭受到這個供給的這種狀況我們統計大概就是說去年就是深獵的這個值班背景供給大概有29件所以我們的這個看法就是說希望把值班跟背景也把它納進來做一個深獵家籍的一個支給的一個項目\n\n21\n00:07:34,949 --> 00:07:39,874\n所以我想今天是這樣既然大家都同意這個狀況的話其實最大的問題是當時的解釋是我們把是不是圍是不是牢的這個部分是用場域住地內和外來做區分可是其實我們要分的應該是在工作上面在說的是外勤背勤\n\n22\n00:07:56,989 --> 00:08:04,177\n都應該是屬於他在工作中所以我們都認同他已經進入了一個危險或者是勞動這樣的狀態和內情就是外情、背情、內情其實三個是不同的階段我們應該處理的不是住地\n\n23\n00:08:13,406 --> 00:08:18,889\n用空間來處理他的內和外做分類而是用他是不是在情物中哪一種類的情物中背情跟外情其實是只是階段性的差別而已嘛所以我們認為其實應該這一次的修正就是要把背情的部分不管是在警察、消防甚至是海巡等等要把它可以納入我們的理解是這樣不曉得警政署這邊是不是支持的對支持支持嘛所以部長這邊也是支持的嗎\n\n24\n00:08:42,981 --> 00:08:51,043\n所以如果我們跟地方縣市政府的這個地方都談好了的話其實這個就可以上路了是這樣嗎謝謝我想委員講得非常的清楚現在我們仍然要跟地方縣市政府尤其他們首長再繼續溝通因為危老的部分是針對深夜危老那剛剛那個署長有跟各位報告原來我們113年6月通過的時候那個時候到目前為止統計受到攻擊是53次可是我們發現說被禽的人呢受到攻擊的還有29次\n\n25\n00:09:12,888 --> 00:09:34,447\n也就是說他們在被擒的期間要協助其他正擒的人去處理事情的時候也是受到攻擊所以它應該是符合我們廣義上在講的危險跟深夜勞動的部分所以希望把它納進去但是因為各縣市地方政府的首長或者是主管警察機關的還沒有那麼清楚了解的狀況之下我們願意再跟那麼多溝通\n\n26\n00:09:35,128 --> 00:09:37,710\n我是覺得我們本來要問的應該問題是說新北市其實我們的警察缺額實在是非常大所以導致我們的問題其實是警察的壓力非常大最後還是錢的問題所以這個錢到底是從哪裡來如果地方政府真的無法支應的時候中央要怎麼協助這個部分的調整\n\n27\n00:09:56,722 --> 00:10:06,390\n這其實是後續這樣子的問題我想我們接下來還會有其他的在本次會期當中還會有其他討論我再就這個問題跟警政署跟內政部這邊做討論謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n209\t7398\t好 謝謝主席 我們請劉部長那請警政署張署長也準備一下好了請劉部長 張署長委員好 部長剛剛我們聽到您和前一位委員這個有一點這個\n16400\t43422\t激烈的交鋒那我們其實想把這個問題再做一個延續跟澄清一下今天全國我相信不分政黨大家都因為接受到了錦霄海巡移民空情人員大家的保護所以我們同樣不分政黨我們都認為政府應該要做錦霄海巡移民空情人員的後盾這個大家都同意嗎沒有問題吧在場有人有反對的嗎沒有好\n45143\t58349\t所以我們在他們正常的薪資給付之外如果他們特別從事一些危險的工作我們覺得他們太辛苦了我們實在是可以表示敬意的唯一最好的做法就是給他加薪加津貼所以其實我們在這個113年的時候政府就已經核定了要做這個危老的津貼再做加擠113年的6月1號開始實施\n73436\t80966\t好那麼我們現在要繼續增加不管是在警察或者是消防大家都認為我們可以討論喔因為這樣實施一年了覺得可以甚至是有沒有這個誰可以領要領多少等等各種面向要再做一個討論\n90399\t99692\t可是問題是在於部長你可以再明確的說出來這個方向如果執行下去的話其實就是錢誰出嘛就是這麼簡單的問題 錢誰出所以這個歸程加擠 津貼加擠的\n105920\t120285\t條件規則一旦通過了之後請問這筆預算誰出報告中央跟地方都有中央跟地方都有中央比較多還是地方比較多因為地方有22個縣市所以地方上比較多這是怎麼區分呢\n121125\t138321\t第一個譬如說警政警政如果他是特種警察保警的部分的話保一到保七那就是由警政署要支付那編列在我們警政部的預算但是如果他是縣市地方政府警察從台北到金門 馬祖 澎湖這些都是由縣市政府那消防呢消防的話也一樣嗎哪白 蕭署長也一樣嗎也是中央跟地方嗎\n144881\t170466\t中央目前是特種搜救隊跟港務消防隊那縣市就縣市來好所以同樣是消防同樣是警察就是因為他的職務類別不同他歸件的是在歸件中央直接管的還是是他在地方服務就是地方大家其實剛剛所有地方來的委員在講的地方的警察地方的消防人員其實這些辛苦的同仁他們的錢甚至是加擠的津貼都是由地方政府支付的我這樣說對嗎對\n172006\t174687\t完全正確嘛對不對好那現在我們大家在這個會議上都同意了要增加津貼請問各縣市政府各地方縣市政府有沒有哪一些現在還沒有回報你說他同意的大家在這裡都說同意了嘛好那現在開會啊那我們說這個直轄市我們北北桃好了北北桃直轄市\n196036\t202919\t我先管我的北部好了因為我等一下要問你的人力的部分也是跟北北桃我用這三個做比較昨天我們有請警察局跟縣市長來做一些聯繫警政的部分台北市、新北市、桃園市這三個比較他們的意見台北市目前是在嚴厲當中就是還沒有同意\n215805\t222333\t演繹當中沒有講說同意或不同意台北市還沒有反應 演繹當中新北市是同意 桃園市同意這是警察 那消防呢我要北北桃\n229949\t251881\t因為你的人數比差太多了我想用北北桃做一個比較基準台北市初步同意在年度預算裡面的條件但是新增的機會要跟市長做面包所以台北市也還沒有說好台北市是同意那桃園是同意都同意那所以這些同意的狀況下那不同意的縣市是\n255165\t261749\t不同意的縣市還有占多少沒有不同意說不支持但是他們說他們要由中央來負擔這樣子所以啦我們大家雖然都同意可是還有至少就我的理解的話其實是13個已經表達同意了嘛對不對13個同意那我們全部的22個縣市裡面13個同意那就是等於還有將近三分之一\n282842\t287145\t其實是還沒有跟你回復這樣的狀況嘛那所以在這樣的狀況下請問要怎麼處理這個部分你可以請他們加速嗎我們要同意的是不是可以請他繼續增加可以加快腳步同意嗎不然的話等於是他們綁住了大家啊不是嗎\n299733\t304496\t中央也同意嘛 中央已經朝這個方向推進了啊地方如果有這樣狀況的話其實應該是把這個壓力是到各地方縣市政府那些還沒有表態的 其實應該要表態啊或者是你要研議其他的方式啊所以這是第一個這樣子的狀況啦那第二個我想跟警政署這邊直接再討論一下這個津貼的部分其實我們要討論津貼的部分\n326088\t342145\t應該是要說齁其實大家今天既然都同意了這個方向這個方向是要可以增加的原因是因為我們現在在看的當時當時這個支付表當中呢當時支付表當中有一個是你認為說他們是應該要按照\n350113\t362637\t深夜執行駐地外勤務所以每人每小時發給新台幣100元的深夜圍牢津貼嘛在內政部的報告裡面蕭署長可以請回沒有關係那其實在這個內政部的報告裡面特別指出是有駐地外這三個字的報告的描述可是如果是我們在這個圍牢津貼\n374401\t380085\t危老勤務津貼之極表當中其實並沒有看到住地外三個字所以我想特別請署長這邊你解釋一下我們如果用住地內外用地區性來分的話是符合現在這樣的所謂危老的部分嗎或者是如果我們要調整家計的話我們的方向會是什麼狀況\n396167\t424721\t跟委員報告 就是去年6月的這個通過這個森林圍牢加擠的這個加擠那當時大概就是以駐地外的勤怒的一個執行為原則那不過我們這個實施一年之後我們有做通盤的這個考量 我們在6月32號也有邀集各鄉來做討論 就是說這一些森林圍牢加擠都是外勤的同齡去執行勤怒 包括有值班 備勤巡邏的這些的勤怒 那對於這個\n426312\t454373\t目前的值班跟背景是沒辦法去做支領但是我們研議就是這一些的值班跟背景仍然也有遭受到這個供給的這種狀況我們統計大概就是說去年就是深獵的這個值班背景供給大概有29件所以我們的這個看法就是說希望把值班跟背景也把它納進來做一個深獵家籍的一個支給的一個項目\n454949\t459874\t所以我想今天是這樣既然大家都同意這個狀況的話其實最大的問題是當時的解釋是我們把是不是圍是不是牢的這個部分是用場域住地內和外來做區分可是其實我們要分的應該是在工作上面在說的是外勤 背勤\n476989\t484177\t都應該是屬於他在工作中所以我們都認同他已經進入了一個危險或者是勞動這樣的狀態和內情就是外情、背情、內情其實三個是不同的階段我們應該處理的不是住地\n493406\t498889\t用空間來處理他的內和外做分類而是用他是不是在情物中哪一種類的情物中背情跟外情其實是只是階段性的差別而已嘛所以我們認為其實應該這一次的修正就是要把背情的部分不管是在警察、消防甚至是海巡等等要把它可以納入我們的理解是這樣不曉得警政署這邊是不是支持的對 支持支持嘛所以部長這邊也是支持的嗎\n522981\t531043\t所以如果我們跟地方縣市政府的這個地方都談好了的話其實這個就可以上路了是這樣嗎謝謝我想委員講得非常的清楚現在我們仍然要跟地方縣市政府尤其他們首長再繼續溝通因為危老的部分是針對深夜危老那剛剛那個署長有跟各位報告原來我們113年6月通過的時候那個時候到目前為止統計受到攻擊是53次可是我們發現說被禽的人呢受到攻擊的還有29次\n552888\t574447\t也就是說他們在被擒的期間要協助其他正擒的人去處理事情的時候也是受到攻擊所以它應該是符合我們廣義上在講的危險跟深夜勞動的部分所以希望把它納進去但是因為各縣市地方政府的首長或者是主管警察機關的還沒有那麼清楚了解的狀況之下我們願意再跟那麼多溝通\n575128\t577710\t我是覺得我們本來要問的應該問題是說新北市其實我們的警察缺額實在是非常大所以導致我們的問題其實是警察的壓力非常大最後還是錢的問題所以這個錢到底是從哪裡來如果地方政府真的無法支應的時候中央要怎麼協助這個部分的調整\n596722\t606390\t這其實是後續這樣子的問題我想我們接下來還會有其他的在本次會期當中還會有其他討論我再就這個問題跟警政署跟內政部這邊做討論謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請劉部長那請警政署張署長也準備一下好了請劉部長 張署長委員好 部長剛剛我們聽到您和前一位委員這個有一點這個\n激烈的交鋒那我們其實想把這個問題再做一個延續跟澄清一下今天全國我相信不分政黨大家都因為接受到了錦霄海巡移民空情人員大家的保護所以我們同樣不分政黨我們都認為政府應該要做錦霄海巡移民空情人員的後盾這個大家都同意嗎沒有問題吧在場有人有反對的嗎沒有好\n所以我們在他們正常的薪資給付之外如果他們特別從事一些危險的工作我們覺得他們太辛苦了我們實在是可以表示敬意的唯一最好的做法就是給他加薪加津貼所以其實我們在這個113年的時候政府就已經核定了要做這個危老的津貼再做加擠113年的6月1號開始實施\n好那麼我們現在要繼續增加不管是在警察或者是消防大家都認為我們可以討論喔因為這樣實施一年了覺得可以甚至是有沒有這個誰可以領要領多少等等各種面向要再做一個討論\n可是問題是在於部長你可以再明確的說出來這個方向如果執行下去的話其實就是錢誰出嘛就是這麼簡單的問題 錢誰出所以這個歸程加擠 津貼加擠的\n條件規則一旦通過了之後請問這筆預算誰出報告中央跟地方都有中央跟地方都有中央比較多還是地方比較多因為地方有22個縣市所以地方上比較多這是怎麼區分呢\n第一個譬如說警政警政如果他是特種警察保警的部分的話保一到保七那就是由警政署要支付那編列在我們警政部的預算但是如果他是縣市地方政府警察從台北到金門 馬祖 澎湖這些都是由縣市政府那消防呢消防的話也一樣嗎哪白 蕭署長也一樣嗎也是中央跟地方嗎\n中央目前是特種搜救隊跟港務消防隊那縣市就縣市來好所以同樣是消防同樣是警察就是因為他的職務類別不同他歸件的是在歸件中央直接管的還是是他在地方服務就是地方大家其實剛剛所有地方來的委員在講的地方的警察地方的消防人員其實這些辛苦的同仁他們的錢甚至是加擠的津貼都是由地方政府支付的我這樣說對嗎對\n完全正確嘛對不對好那現在我們大家在這個會議上都同意了要增加津貼請問各縣市政府各地方縣市政府有沒有哪一些現在還沒有回報你說他同意的大家在這裡都說同意了嘛好那現在開會啊那我們說這個直轄市我們北北桃好了北北桃直轄市\n我先管我的北部好了因為我等一下要問你的人力的部分也是跟北北桃我用這三個做比較昨天我們有請警察局跟縣市長來做一些聯繫警政的部分台北市、新北市、桃園市這三個比較他們的意見台北市目前是在嚴厲當中就是還沒有同意\n演繹當中沒有講說同意或不同意台北市還沒有反應 演繹當中新北市是同意 桃園市同意這是警察 那消防呢我要北北桃\n因為你的人數比差太多了我想用北北桃做一個比較基準台北市初步同意在年度預算裡面的條件但是新增的機會要跟市長做面包所以台北市也還沒有說好台北市是同意那桃園是同意都同意那所以這些同意的狀況下那不同意的縣市是\n不同意的縣市還有占多少沒有不同意說不支持但是他們說他們要由中央來負擔這樣子所以啦我們大家雖然都同意可是還有至少就我的理解的話其實是13個已經表達同意了嘛對不對13個同意那我們全部的22個縣市裡面13個同意那就是等於還有將近三分之一\n其實是還沒有跟你回復這樣的狀況嘛那所以在這樣的狀況下請問要怎麼處理這個部分你可以請他們加速嗎我們要同意的是不是可以請他繼續增加可以加快腳步同意嗎不然的話等於是他們綁住了大家啊不是嗎\n中央也同意嘛 中央已經朝這個方向推進了啊地方如果有這樣狀況的話其實應該是把這個壓力是到各地方縣市政府那些還沒有表態的 其實應該要表態啊或者是你要研議其他的方式啊所以這是第一個這樣子的狀況啦那第二個我想跟警政署這邊直接再討論一下這個津貼的部分其實我們要討論津貼的部分\n應該是要說齁其實大家今天既然都同意了這個方向這個方向是要可以增加的原因是因為我們現在在看的當時當時這個支付表當中呢當時支付表當中有一個是你認為說他們是應該要按照\n深夜執行駐地外勤務所以每人每小時發給新台幣100元的深夜圍牢津貼嘛在內政部的報告裡面蕭署長可以請回沒有關係那其實在這個內政部的報告裡面特別指出是有駐地外這三個字的報告的描述可是如果是我們在這個圍牢津貼\n危老勤務津貼之極表當中其實並沒有看到住地外三個字所以我想特別請署長這邊你解釋一下我們如果用住地內外用地區性來分的話是符合現在這樣的所謂危老的部分嗎或者是如果我們要調整家計的話我們的方向會是什麼狀況\n跟委員報告 就是去年6月的這個通過這個森林圍牢加擠的這個加擠那當時大概就是以駐地外的勤怒的一個執行為原則那不過我們這個實施一年之後我們有做通盤的這個考量 我們在6月32號也有邀集各鄉來做討論 就是說這一些森林圍牢加擠都是外勤的同齡去執行勤怒 包括有值班 備勤巡邏的這些的勤怒 那對於這個\n目前的值班跟背景是沒辦法去做支領但是我們研議就是這一些的值班跟背景仍然也有遭受到這個供給的這種狀況我們統計大概就是說去年就是深獵的這個值班背景供給大概有29件所以我們的這個看法就是說希望把值班跟背景也把它納進來做一個深獵家籍的一個支給的一個項目\n所以我想今天是這樣既然大家都同意這個狀況的話其實最大的問題是當時的解釋是我們把是不是圍是不是牢的這個部分是用場域住地內和外來做區分可是其實我們要分的應該是在工作上面在說的是外勤 背勤\n都應該是屬於他在工作中所以我們都認同他已經進入了一個危險或者是勞動這樣的狀態和內情就是外情、背情、內情其實三個是不同的階段我們應該處理的不是住地\n用空間來處理他的內和外做分類而是用他是不是在情物中哪一種類的情物中背情跟外情其實是只是階段性的差別而已嘛所以我們認為其實應該這一次的修正就是要把背情的部分不管是在警察、消防甚至是海巡等等要把它可以納入我們的理解是這樣不曉得警政署這邊是不是支持的對 支持支持嘛所以部長這邊也是支持的嗎\n所以如果我們跟地方縣市政府的這個地方都談好了的話其實這個就可以上路了是這樣嗎謝謝我想委員講得非常的清楚現在我們仍然要跟地方縣市政府尤其他們首長再繼續溝通因為危老的部分是針對深夜危老那剛剛那個署長有跟各位報告原來我們113年6月通過的時候那個時候到目前為止統計受到攻擊是53次可是我們發現說被禽的人呢受到攻擊的還有29次\n也就是說他們在被擒的期間要協助其他正擒的人去處理事情的時候也是受到攻擊所以它應該是符合我們廣義上在講的危險跟深夜勞動的部分所以希望把它納進去但是因為各縣市地方政府的首長或者是主管警察機關的還沒有那麼清楚了解的狀況之下我們願意再跟那麼多溝通\n我是覺得我們本來要問的應該問題是說新北市其實我們的警察缺額實在是非常大所以導致我們的問題其實是警察的壓力非常大最後還是錢的問題所以這個錢到底是從哪裡來如果地方政府真的無法支應的時候中央要怎麼協助這個部分的調整\n這其實是後續這樣子的問題我想我們接下來還會有其他的在本次會期當中還會有其他討論我再就這個問題跟警政署跟內政部這邊做討論謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.209 --> 00:07.398\n好謝謝主席我們請劉部長那請警政署張署長也準備一下好了請劉部長張署長委員好部長剛剛我們聽到您和前一位委員這個有一點這個\n\n00:16.400 --> 00:43.422\n激烈的交鋒那我們其實想把這個問題再做一個延續跟澄清一下今天全國我相信不分政黨大家都因為接受到了錦霄海巡移民空情人員大家的保護所以我們同樣不分政黨我們都認為政府應該要做錦霄海巡移民空情人員的後盾這個大家都同意嗎沒有問題吧在場有人有反對的嗎沒有好\n\n00:45.143 --> 00:58.349\n所以我們在他們正常的薪資給付之外如果他們特別從事一些危險的工作我們覺得他們太辛苦了我們實在是可以表示敬意的唯一最好的做法就是給他加薪加津貼所以其實我們在這個113年的時候政府就已經核定了要做這個危老的津貼再做加擠113年的6月1號開始實施\n\n01:13.436 --> 01:20.966\n好那麼我們現在要繼續增加不管是在警察或者是消防大家都認為我們可以討論喔因為這樣實施一年了覺得可以甚至是有沒有這個誰可以領要領多少等等各種面向要再做一個討論\n\n01:30.399 --> 01:39.692\n可是問題是在於部長你可以再明確的說出來這個方向如果執行下去的話其實就是錢誰出嘛就是這麼簡單的問題錢誰出所以這個歸程加擠津貼加擠的\n\n01:45.920 --> 02:00.285\n條件規則一旦通過了之後請問這筆預算誰出報告中央跟地方都有中央跟地方都有中央比較多還是地方比較多因為地方有22個縣市所以地方上比較多這是怎麼區分呢\n\n02:01.125 --> 02:18.321\n第一個譬如說警政警政如果他是特種警察保警的部分的話保一到保七那就是由警政署要支付那編列在我們警政部的預算但是如果他是縣市地方政府警察從台北到金門馬祖澎湖這些都是由縣市政府那消防呢消防的話也一樣嗎哪白蕭署長也一樣嗎也是中央跟地方嗎\n\n02:24.881 --> 02:50.466\n中央目前是特種搜救隊跟港務消防隊那縣市就縣市來好所以同樣是消防同樣是警察就是因為他的職務類別不同他歸件的是在歸件中央直接管的還是是他在地方服務就是地方大家其實剛剛所有地方來的委員在講的地方的警察地方的消防人員其實這些辛苦的同仁他們的錢甚至是加擠的津貼都是由地方政府支付的我這樣說對嗎對\n\n02:52.006 --> 02:54.687\n完全正確嘛對不對好那現在我們大家在這個會議上都同意了要增加津貼請問各縣市政府各地方縣市政府有沒有哪一些現在還沒有回報你說他同意的大家在這裡都說同意了嘛好那現在開會啊那我們說這個直轄市我們北北桃好了北北桃直轄市\n\n03:16.036 --> 03:22.919\n我先管我的北部好了因為我等一下要問你的人力的部分也是跟北北桃我用這三個做比較昨天我們有請警察局跟縣市長來做一些聯繫警政的部分台北市、新北市、桃園市這三個比較他們的意見台北市目前是在嚴厲當中就是還沒有同意\n\n03:35.805 --> 03:42.333\n演繹當中沒有講說同意或不同意台北市還沒有反應演繹當中新北市是同意桃園市同意這是警察那消防呢我要北北桃\n\n03:49.949 --> 04:11.881\n因為你的人數比差太多了我想用北北桃做一個比較基準台北市初步同意在年度預算裡面的條件但是新增的機會要跟市長做面包所以台北市也還沒有說好台北市是同意那桃園是同意都同意那所以這些同意的狀況下那不同意的縣市是\n\n04:15.165 --> 04:21.749\n不同意的縣市還有占多少沒有不同意說不支持但是他們說他們要由中央來負擔這樣子所以啦我們大家雖然都同意可是還有至少就我的理解的話其實是13個已經表達同意了嘛對不對13個同意那我們全部的22個縣市裡面13個同意那就是等於還有將近三分之一\n\n04:42.842 --> 04:47.145\n其實是還沒有跟你回復這樣的狀況嘛那所以在這樣的狀況下請問要怎麼處理這個部分你可以請他們加速嗎我們要同意的是不是可以請他繼續增加可以加快腳步同意嗎不然的話等於是他們綁住了大家啊不是嗎\n\n04:59.733 --> 05:04.496\n中央也同意嘛中央已經朝這個方向推進了啊地方如果有這樣狀況的話其實應該是把這個壓力是到各地方縣市政府那些還沒有表態的其實應該要表態啊或者是你要研議其他的方式啊所以這是第一個這樣子的狀況啦那第二個我想跟警政署這邊直接再討論一下這個津貼的部分其實我們要討論津貼的部分\n\n05:26.088 --> 05:42.145\n應該是要說齁其實大家今天既然都同意了這個方向這個方向是要可以增加的原因是因為我們現在在看的當時當時這個支付表當中呢當時支付表當中有一個是你認為說他們是應該要按照\n\n05:50.113 --> 06:02.637\n深夜執行駐地外勤務所以每人每小時發給新台幣100元的深夜圍牢津貼嘛在內政部的報告裡面蕭署長可以請回沒有關係那其實在這個內政部的報告裡面特別指出是有駐地外這三個字的報告的描述可是如果是我們在這個圍牢津貼\n\n06:14.401 --> 06:20.085\n危老勤務津貼之極表當中其實並沒有看到住地外三個字所以我想特別請署長這邊你解釋一下我們如果用住地內外用地區性來分的話是符合現在這樣的所謂危老的部分嗎或者是如果我們要調整家計的話我們的方向會是什麼狀況\n\n06:36.167 --> 07:04.721\n跟委員報告就是去年6月的這個通過這個森林圍牢加擠的這個加擠那當時大概就是以駐地外的勤怒的一個執行為原則那不過我們這個實施一年之後我們有做通盤的這個考量我們在6月32號也有邀集各鄉來做討論就是說這一些森林圍牢加擠都是外勤的同齡去執行勤怒包括有值班備勤巡邏的這些的勤怒那對於這個\n\n07:06.312 --> 07:34.373\n目前的值班跟背景是沒辦法去做支領但是我們研議就是這一些的值班跟背景仍然也有遭受到這個供給的這種狀況我們統計大概就是說去年就是深獵的這個值班背景供給大概有29件所以我們的這個看法就是說希望把值班跟背景也把它納進來做一個深獵家籍的一個支給的一個項目\n\n07:34.949 --> 07:39.874\n所以我想今天是這樣既然大家都同意這個狀況的話其實最大的問題是當時的解釋是我們把是不是圍是不是牢的這個部分是用場域住地內和外來做區分可是其實我們要分的應該是在工作上面在說的是外勤背勤\n\n07:56.989 --> 08:04.177\n都應該是屬於他在工作中所以我們都認同他已經進入了一個危險或者是勞動這樣的狀態和內情就是外情、背情、內情其實三個是不同的階段我們應該處理的不是住地\n\n08:13.406 --> 08:18.889\n用空間來處理他的內和外做分類而是用他是不是在情物中哪一種類的情物中背情跟外情其實是只是階段性的差別而已嘛所以我們認為其實應該這一次的修正就是要把背情的部分不管是在警察、消防甚至是海巡等等要把它可以納入我們的理解是這樣不曉得警政署這邊是不是支持的對支持支持嘛所以部長這邊也是支持的嗎\n\n08:42.981 --> 08:51.043\n所以如果我們跟地方縣市政府的這個地方都談好了的話其實這個就可以上路了是這樣嗎謝謝我想委員講得非常的清楚現在我們仍然要跟地方縣市政府尤其他們首長再繼續溝通因為危老的部分是針對深夜危老那剛剛那個署長有跟各位報告原來我們113年6月通過的時候那個時候到目前為止統計受到攻擊是53次可是我們發現說被禽的人呢受到攻擊的還有29次\n\n09:12.888 --> 09:34.447\n也就是說他們在被擒的期間要協助其他正擒的人去處理事情的時候也是受到攻擊所以它應該是符合我們廣義上在講的危險跟深夜勞動的部分所以希望把它納進去但是因為各縣市地方政府的首長或者是主管警察機關的還沒有那麼清楚了解的狀況之下我們願意再跟那麼多溝通\n\n09:35.128 --> 09:37.710\n我是覺得我們本來要問的應該問題是說新北市其實我們的警察缺額實在是非常大所以導致我們的問題其實是警察的壓力非常大最後還是錢的問題所以這個錢到底是從哪裡來如果地方政府真的無法支應的時候中央要怎麼協助這個部分的調整\n\n09:56.722 --> 10:06.390\n這其實是後續這樣子的問題我想我們接下來還會有其他的在本次會期當中還會有其他討論我再就這個問題跟警政署跟內政部這邊做討論謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.209,"end":7.398,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請劉部長那請警政署張署長也準備一下好了請劉部長 張署長委員好 部長剛剛我們聽到您和前一位委員這個有一點這個"},{"start":16.4,"end":43.422,"text":"激烈的交鋒那我們其實想把這個問題再做一個延續跟澄清一下今天全國我相信不分政黨大家都因為接受到了錦霄海巡移民空情人員大家的保護所以我們同樣不分政黨我們都認為政府應該要做錦霄海巡移民空情人員的後盾這個大家都同意嗎沒有問題吧在場有人有反對的嗎沒有好"},{"start":45.143,"end":58.349,"text":"所以我們在他們正常的薪資給付之外如果他們特別從事一些危險的工作我們覺得他們太辛苦了我們實在是可以表示敬意的唯一最好的做法就是給他加薪加津貼所以其實我們在這個113年的時候政府就已經核定了要做這個危老的津貼再做加擠113年的6月1號開始實施"},{"start":73.436,"end":80.966,"text":"好那麼我們現在要繼續增加不管是在警察或者是消防大家都認為我們可以討論喔因為這樣實施一年了覺得可以甚至是有沒有這個誰可以領要領多少等等各種面向要再做一個討論"},{"start":90.399,"end":99.692,"text":"可是問題是在於部長你可以再明確的說出來這個方向如果執行下去的話其實就是錢誰出嘛就是這麼簡單的問題 錢誰出所以這個歸程加擠 津貼加擠的"},{"start":105.92,"end":120.285,"text":"條件規則一旦通過了之後請問這筆預算誰出報告中央跟地方都有中央跟地方都有中央比較多還是地方比較多因為地方有22個縣市所以地方上比較多這是怎麼區分呢"},{"start":121.125,"end":138.321,"text":"第一個譬如說警政警政如果他是特種警察保警的部分的話保一到保七那就是由警政署要支付那編列在我們警政部的預算但是如果他是縣市地方政府警察從台北到金門 馬祖 澎湖這些都是由縣市政府那消防呢消防的話也一樣嗎哪白 蕭署長也一樣嗎也是中央跟地方嗎"},{"start":144.881,"end":170.466,"text":"中央目前是特種搜救隊跟港務消防隊那縣市就縣市來好所以同樣是消防同樣是警察就是因為他的職務類別不同他歸件的是在歸件中央直接管的還是是他在地方服務就是地方大家其實剛剛所有地方來的委員在講的地方的警察地方的消防人員其實這些辛苦的同仁他們的錢甚至是加擠的津貼都是由地方政府支付的我這樣說對嗎對"},{"start":172.006,"end":174.687,"text":"完全正確嘛對不對好那現在我們大家在這個會議上都同意了要增加津貼請問各縣市政府各地方縣市政府有沒有哪一些現在還沒有回報你說他同意的大家在這裡都說同意了嘛好那現在開會啊那我們說這個直轄市我們北北桃好了北北桃直轄市"},{"start":196.036,"end":202.919,"text":"我先管我的北部好了因為我等一下要問你的人力的部分也是跟北北桃我用這三個做比較昨天我們有請警察局跟縣市長來做一些聯繫警政的部分台北市、新北市、桃園市這三個比較他們的意見台北市目前是在嚴厲當中就是還沒有同意"},{"start":215.805,"end":222.333,"text":"演繹當中沒有講說同意或不同意台北市還沒有反應 演繹當中新北市是同意 桃園市同意這是警察 那消防呢我要北北桃"},{"start":229.949,"end":251.881,"text":"因為你的人數比差太多了我想用北北桃做一個比較基準台北市初步同意在年度預算裡面的條件但是新增的機會要跟市長做面包所以台北市也還沒有說好台北市是同意那桃園是同意都同意那所以這些同意的狀況下那不同意的縣市是"},{"start":255.165,"end":261.749,"text":"不同意的縣市還有占多少沒有不同意說不支持但是他們說他們要由中央來負擔這樣子所以啦我們大家雖然都同意可是還有至少就我的理解的話其實是13個已經表達同意了嘛對不對13個同意那我們全部的22個縣市裡面13個同意那就是等於還有將近三分之一"},{"start":282.842,"end":287.145,"text":"其實是還沒有跟你回復這樣的狀況嘛那所以在這樣的狀況下請問要怎麼處理這個部分你可以請他們加速嗎我們要同意的是不是可以請他繼續增加可以加快腳步同意嗎不然的話等於是他們綁住了大家啊不是嗎"},{"start":299.733,"end":304.496,"text":"中央也同意嘛 中央已經朝這個方向推進了啊地方如果有這樣狀況的話其實應該是把這個壓力是到各地方縣市政府那些還沒有表態的 其實應該要表態啊或者是你要研議其他的方式啊所以這是第一個這樣子的狀況啦那第二個我想跟警政署這邊直接再討論一下這個津貼的部分其實我們要討論津貼的部分"},{"start":326.088,"end":342.145,"text":"應該是要說齁其實大家今天既然都同意了這個方向這個方向是要可以增加的原因是因為我們現在在看的當時當時這個支付表當中呢當時支付表當中有一個是你認為說他們是應該要按照"},{"start":350.113,"end":362.637,"text":"深夜執行駐地外勤務所以每人每小時發給新台幣100元的深夜圍牢津貼嘛在內政部的報告裡面蕭署長可以請回沒有關係那其實在這個內政部的報告裡面特別指出是有駐地外這三個字的報告的描述可是如果是我們在這個圍牢津貼"},{"start":374.401,"end":380.085,"text":"危老勤務津貼之極表當中其實並沒有看到住地外三個字所以我想特別請署長這邊你解釋一下我們如果用住地內外用地區性來分的話是符合現在這樣的所謂危老的部分嗎或者是如果我們要調整家計的話我們的方向會是什麼狀況"},{"start":396.167,"end":424.721,"text":"跟委員報告 就是去年6月的這個通過這個森林圍牢加擠的這個加擠那當時大概就是以駐地外的勤怒的一個執行為原則那不過我們這個實施一年之後我們有做通盤的這個考量 我們在6月32號也有邀集各鄉來做討論 就是說這一些森林圍牢加擠都是外勤的同齡去執行勤怒 包括有值班 備勤巡邏的這些的勤怒 那對於這個"},{"start":426.312,"end":454.373,"text":"目前的值班跟背景是沒辦法去做支領但是我們研議就是這一些的值班跟背景仍然也有遭受到這個供給的這種狀況我們統計大概就是說去年就是深獵的這個值班背景供給大概有29件所以我們的這個看法就是說希望把值班跟背景也把它納進來做一個深獵家籍的一個支給的一個項目"},{"start":454.949,"end":459.874,"text":"所以我想今天是這樣既然大家都同意這個狀況的話其實最大的問題是當時的解釋是我們把是不是圍是不是牢的這個部分是用場域住地內和外來做區分可是其實我們要分的應該是在工作上面在說的是外勤 背勤"},{"start":476.989,"end":484.177,"text":"都應該是屬於他在工作中所以我們都認同他已經進入了一個危險或者是勞動這樣的狀態和內情就是外情、背情、內情其實三個是不同的階段我們應該處理的不是住地"},{"start":493.406,"end":498.889,"text":"用空間來處理他的內和外做分類而是用他是不是在情物中哪一種類的情物中背情跟外情其實是只是階段性的差別而已嘛所以我們認為其實應該這一次的修正就是要把背情的部分不管是在警察、消防甚至是海巡等等要把它可以納入我們的理解是這樣不曉得警政署這邊是不是支持的對 支持支持嘛所以部長這邊也是支持的嗎"},{"start":522.981,"end":531.043,"text":"所以如果我們跟地方縣市政府的這個地方都談好了的話其實這個就可以上路了是這樣嗎謝謝我想委員講得非常的清楚現在我們仍然要跟地方縣市政府尤其他們首長再繼續溝通因為危老的部分是針對深夜危老那剛剛那個署長有跟各位報告原來我們113年6月通過的時候那個時候到目前為止統計受到攻擊是53次可是我們發現說被禽的人呢受到攻擊的還有29次"},{"start":552.888,"end":574.447,"text":"也就是說他們在被擒的期間要協助其他正擒的人去處理事情的時候也是受到攻擊所以它應該是符合我們廣義上在講的危險跟深夜勞動的部分所以希望把它納進去但是因為各縣市地方政府的首長或者是主管警察機關的還沒有那麼清楚了解的狀況之下我們願意再跟那麼多溝通"},{"start":575.128,"end":577.71,"text":"我是覺得我們本來要問的應該問題是說新北市其實我們的警察缺額實在是非常大所以導致我們的問題其實是警察的壓力非常大最後還是錢的問題所以這個錢到底是從哪裡來如果地方政府真的無法支應的時候中央要怎麼協助這個部分的調整"},{"start":596.722,"end":606.39,"text":"這其實是後續這樣子的問題我想我們接下來還會有其他的在本次會期當中還會有其他討論我再就這個問題跟警政署跟內政部這邊做討論謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":175,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時24分）好，謝謝主席，我們請劉部長、請警政署張署長也準備一下好了。"],["主席：好，請劉部長，張署長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長，剛剛我們聽到您和前一位委員有一點激烈的交鋒，其實我想把這個問題再做個延續跟澄清一下。今天全國我相信不分政黨大家都因為接受到了警消、海巡、移民、空勤人員的保護，所以我們同樣不分政黨，都認為政府應該要做警消、海巡、移民、空勤人員的後盾，這個大家都同意嘛，沒有問題吧！"],["劉部長世芳：是，完全正確。"],["蘇委員巧慧：在場有人反對的嗎？"],["張署長榮興：沒有。"],["蘇委員巧慧：沒有！好，所以我們在他們正常的薪資給付之外，如果他們特別從事一些危險的工作，我們覺得：啊！他們太辛苦了，我們實在是可以表示敬意的唯一最好的作法就是給他們加薪、加津貼。所以我們在113年的時候，政府就已經核定了要做危勞的津貼及再加給，並於113年的6月1日開始實施。我們現在要繼續增加，不管是在警察或者是消防，大家都認為：欸！我們可以討論喔！因為已經實施一年了，覺得可以……甚至是有沒有誰可以領、要領多少等等各種面向，要再做一個討論。可是問題在於，部長可以再明確的說出來，這個方向如果執行下去的話，其實就是錢誰出嘛！就是這麼簡單的問題：錢誰出？所以這津貼加給的條件及規則一旦通過了之後，請問這筆預算誰出？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，中央跟地方都有。"],["蘇委員巧慧：中央跟地方都有，中央比較多，還是地方比較多？"],["劉部長世芳：因為地方有22個縣市，所以地方上比較多。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這是怎麼區分呢？"],["劉部長世芳：第一個，譬如警政，如果他是特種警察、保警的話，保一到保七的部分是由警政署要編列在我們內政部的預算；但是如果他是縣市地方政府的警察，從臺北到金門、馬祖、澎湖，這些都是由縣市地方政府自行編列。"],["蘇委員巧慧：那消防呢？消防也一樣嗎？來，請消防署長回答。也一樣嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：對，也是一樣。"],["蘇委員巧慧：也是中央跟地方嗎？"],["蕭署長煥章：中央目前是特種搜救隊跟港務消防隊。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對。"],["蕭署長煥章：縣市就由縣市自行編列。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，所以同樣是消防、同樣是警察，就是因為他的職務類別不同，他歸建是在歸建的中央直接管的，還是他在地方服務……其實剛剛所有地方來的委員在講的地方的警察、地方的消防人員，其實這些辛苦的同仁的錢、甚至是加給的津貼都是由地方政府支付的，我這樣說對嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：完全正確嘛，對不對？好，現在我們大家在這個會議上都同意了要增加津貼，請問各地方縣市政府有沒有哪一些現在還沒有回報你們說他們同意？大家在這裡都說同意了嘛！好，現在開會啊！我們說直轄市、北北桃好了，就北北桃、直轄市的部分？我先管我的北部好了，因為我等一下問你人力的部分也是跟北北桃有關，我用這三個直轄市來做比較。"],["張署長榮興：昨天我們有請警察局長跟縣市長來做聯繫嘛！"],["蘇委員巧慧：針對警政的部分，臺北市、新北市、桃園市這三個比較，他們意見呢？"],["張署長榮興：有關警政的部分，臺北市目前在研議當中……"],["蘇委員巧慧：就是還沒有同意？"],["張署長榮興：是在研議當中，沒有講說同意或不同意啦！"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，臺北市還沒有反映，在研議當中。"],["張署長榮興：新北市是同意。"],["蘇委員巧慧：新北市同意。"],["張署長榮興：桃園市是同意。"],["蘇委員巧慧：桃園市同意，這是警察的部分？"],["張署長榮興：對，是警察。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，消防呢？"],["張署長榮興：臺中市……"],["蘇委員巧慧：消防呢？我要北北桃，因為你的人數比差太多了，我想用北北桃做一個比較基準。"],["蕭署長煥章：跟委員報告，臺北市初步同意在年度預算裡作調整，但是新增的經費要跟市長做面報，這是臺北市的回復。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以臺北市也還沒有說好，在研議中啦！"],["蕭署長煥章：新北市是同意、桃園市也是同意。"],["蘇委員巧慧：都同意？"],["蕭署長煥章：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好。所以這些同意的狀況下，不同意的縣市是？不同意的縣市占多少？大概三分之一？"],["張署長榮興：沒有不同意，也沒有說不支持。但是他們表示經費要由中央來負擔。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以我們大家雖然都同意，可是還有至少……就我的理解的話，其實是有13個縣市已經表達同意了嘛？對不對？"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：13個同意。我們全部22縣市裡有13個同意，就等於是還有將近三分之一還沒有跟你們回復這樣的狀況嘛？"],["張署長榮興：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以在這樣的狀況下，請問要怎麼處理這個部分？你可以請他們加速嗎？同意的是不是可以請他們繼續增加？可以加快腳步同意嗎？不然的話，等於是他們綁住了大家啊，不是嗎？中央也同意嘛！中央已經朝這個方向推進了，地方如果有這樣狀況的話，其實應該是把這壓力釋放到各地方縣市政府，那些還沒有表態的，其實也應該要表態啊！或者是你要研議其他的方式，這是第一個狀況。","第二個，我想跟警政署直接再討論一下津貼的部分，我們要討論津貼的部分應該是要說，其實大家今天既然都同意了這個方向，而這個方向可以增加的原因是因為我們現在在看的……當時這支給表當中有一個是……你認為他們應該要按照深夜執行駐地外勤務，所以每人每小時發給新臺幣100元的深夜危勞津貼嘛！蕭署長可以請回，沒有關係。在內政部的報告裡特別指出有「駐地外」這三個字的描述，可是如果是危勞性勤務津貼支給表當中，其實並沒有看到「駐地外」三個字。所以我想特別請署長解釋一下，我們如果用駐地內外、用地區性來分的話，符合現在所謂危勞的部分嗎？或者如果我們要調整加給的話，我們的方向會是什麼狀況？"],["張署長榮興：跟委員報告，在去年6月通過的深夜危勞勤務加給，當時大概就是以「駐地外」執行勤務為原則，不過我們這個實施一年之後有做通盤的這個考量，在6月30日也有邀集相關的單位做討論，也就是這些深夜危勞加給都是外勤的同仁去執行勤務，包括有值班、備勤、巡邏等等勤務，對於目前值班跟備勤是沒辦法支領，但我們在研議這一些值班跟備勤仍然也有遭受到攻擊的狀況，我們經過統計，去年深夜值班遭受攻擊的大概有29件，所以我們的看法是希望把值班跟備勤也納進深夜加給的支給項目。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以我想今天是這樣啦！既然大家都同意這個狀況的話，其實最大的問題是，當初解釋時，我們把是不是「危」、是不是「勞」的這個部分用場域、駐地內和外來做區分，可是我們要分的是，在工作上說的外勤、備勤都應該屬於他在工作中，所以我們都認同他已經進入了一個危險或者是勞動這樣的狀態，其實外勤、備勤、內勤這三個是不同的階段，我們應該處理的不是駐地、用空間來處理內和外做分類，而是用他是不是在哪一種類的勤務中，備勤跟外勤其實只是階段性的差別而已嘛！"],["張署長榮興：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以我們認為這一次的修正就是要把備勤的部分，不管是在警察、消防、甚至是海巡等等，要把它納入，我們的理解是這樣，不曉得警政署這邊是不是支持的？"],["張署長榮興：對，支持。"],["蘇委員巧慧：支持嘛！所以部長也是支持的嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以如果我們跟地方縣市政府都談好了的話，其實這個就可以上路了，是這樣嗎？"],["劉部長世芳：是，謝謝。我想委員講得非常的清楚，現在我們仍然要跟地方縣市政府，尤其他們的首長要再繼續溝通。因為危勞的部分是針對深夜危勞，剛剛署長有跟各位報告，原來我們113年6月通過的時候，那個時候到目前為止統計有受到攻擊是53次，可是我們發現備勤的人受到攻擊的還有29次，也就是他們在備勤期間要協助其他正勤的人去處理事情的時候也會受到攻擊，所以他應該符合我們廣義上在講的危險跟深夜勞動的部分，所以希望把它納進去，但是因為各縣市地方政府的首長或者主管警察機關還沒有那麼清楚了解的狀況之下，我們願意再跟他們多溝通。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我是覺得我們本來要問的問題應該是，其實我們新北市的警察缺額實在是非常大，所以導致我們的問題是警察的壓力非常大。最後還是錢的問題，所以這個錢到底是從哪裡來？如果地方政府真的無法支應的時候，中央要怎麼協助這個部分的調整，這其實是後續的問題。我想接下來在本次會期當中還會有其他討論，我再就這個問題跟警政署及內政部做討論，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員。","接下來請張智倫委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-15-5","speakers":["黃建賓","牛煦庭","蘇巧慧","張智倫","黃捷","許宇甄","王美惠","張宏陸","李柏毅","麥玉珍","林德福","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","賴惠員","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","盧縣一","黃國昌","陳冠廷","邱志偉","高金素梅","林楚茵","王鴻薇","丁學忠","吳宗憲"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-16"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部部長、海洋委員會主任委員、內政部警政署署長、內政部消防署署長就「警察、消\n防、海巡、移民及空中勤務總隊人員危勞津貼及退休權益之保障」進行專題報告並備質詢，另請\n行政院人事行政總處、行政院主計總處、銓敘部派員列席備詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00001"}}}