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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"張\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 496.169, \"end\": 496.329, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"俊\", \"start\": 496.329, \"end\": 496.47, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 496.47, \"end\": 496.51, \"score\": 0.492}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 496.51, \"end\": 496.53, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"諮\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,626 --> 00:00:08,829\n感謝主席我是是請那個代理主委謝謝請陳主委謝謝謝謝主席\n\n2\n00:00:14,536 --> 00:00:42,072\n陳主委好趙委長我看到你們這次的業務報告提到就是公平會正式在研究這個生成式AI相關的競爭法法規的這個議題喔那也對外徵詢意見那這點我要表示肯定喔因為這個新時代喔非常多的新工具那也需要新的規範喔那當然從生成文字然後圖片影音喔\n\n3\n00:00:42,753 --> 00:00:57,371\n這個AI技術變化非常非常的快那現在短短幾年就已經都普及到整個市場我想請教一下主委針對AI在市場上的實際應用你們後續有什麼具體的規劃跟行動方向嗎\n\n4\n00:00:58,257 --> 00:01:22,359\n跟委員報告我想委員知道我們對外公開徵詢意見那目前意見已經回來了那目前我們內部在重整這些相關的意見然後思考它到底跟公平交易法的關係有哪些接下來我們會把分析的結果送到委員會去討論討論完了以後我們會朝著是不是有發布一個處理原則或政策說明提出一個方向性的文件出來所以目前大概規劃是這樣\n\n5\n00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:49,727\n了解那目前這個AI應用中最明顯也最棘手的就是不時廣告的生成喔那我想要知道的是說像現在網路上充斥著用AI生成的這個名人代言影片啊聲音啊表情啊幾乎都一模一樣好像是你現在看到像這個陳美鳳AI陳美鳳喔代言的保養品啊甚至就有這個知名的這個\n\n6\n00:01:52,208 --> 00:02:13,313\n社長就是像謝金河社長呀藝人啊推出這個投資課程都是被冒用的然後都是假的消費者是分不出真假然後名人的這些權益也受損那市場信任嚴重被侵蝕這一點你們有什麼樣子具體的行為嗎\n\n7\n00:02:14,212 --> 00:02:34,602\n我想不管是不是AI或不是AI我想不實廣告重點是在於你廣告呈現的內容跟實際是有出入了然後這個出入會導致消費者做出錯誤的決定所以假設今天有這樣的一個冒名做一個不實的見證不實的廣告我們既有的公平交易法的不實廣告規定我知道但你們要怎麼樣去協助他們解罰\n\n8\n00:02:36,623 --> 00:02:47,107\n就是不是揭發就你要怎麼樣判你要主動出擊啊你不能等人家來他也不知道啊不時廣告我們隨時都有在監控是你要去努力監控而且這個AI的生成的部分他跟真的一樣搞不好你自己的偵查的人員都被騙了我們會監控但是你要怎麼分析是他是AI生成的呢你們有相關的技術嗎因為你看連台大院長吳明賢\n\n9\n00:03:04,432 --> 00:03:31,663\n都被AI為影片冒名說在用什麼喝的瘦瘦針而且還是院方自己報的警你知道嗎除了本人自己來揭發說那不是我之外你們有沒有其他判別的方式呢我們都有進行網路監控當然委員談的沒錯什麼樣子的網路監控他知道嗎他明明看這個就是陳美鳳啊你覺得你的網路監控人員會覺得這一肯定是AI他怎麼判別\n\n10\n00:03:32,643 --> 00:03:48,280\n你現在肯定沒有工具那我的意思是說科技這麼發達你們要去諧詢這些可以判別是不是AI廣告或是AI影片的工具這是你們現在需求的我們也持續在做\n\n11\n00:03:51,604 --> 00:04:09,711\n那我想你們的報告裡面就是我就是想要提的我提的這幾個案例為什麼就是因為你們的報告裡面是沒有相關執法的案例那AI廣告生成的速度之快成本之低一天就能夠產出好幾百支影片\n\n12\n00:04:10,211 --> 00:04:31,097\n那這種內容透過社群媒體的擴散喔它造成的影響是遠比傳統的廣告來得更廣更快如果沒有辦法辨識或揭露的機制的話消費者將會完全陷入資訊混亂這一點我是必須要提醒主委你必須要有工具我相信喔這個\n\n13\n00:04:32,817 --> 00:04:52,306\n磨高一尺道高一丈你應該是有機會喔可以去找到這些工序你現在已經知道說你沒有工具是不可能辨別的他好幾百個你怎麼知道說哪一個是真的哪一個是假的呢那所以呢是不是能夠建立一個就是AI生成廣告揭露的原則\n\n14\n00:04:53,146 --> 00:05:12,298\n那只要是AI生成的圖片或者是影片怎麼樣去讓他說能夠分辨說是AI生成的內容呢我想公平會可以扮演一個更加積極的角色因為這已經不是個別的事件了這已經現在是整個市場的\n\n15\n00:05:13,578 --> 00:05:27,564\n新風險那公平會也許也可以主導一個跨部會的合作像是跟述發部啊述發部我相信這一方面可能更是他們的專業共同來推動一個自律的規範或者是教育宣導\n\n16\n00:05:28,524 --> 00:05:43,283\n那AI其實應該是我們的好幫手應該是人類的好幫手不能變成欺騙市場的一個工具然後這樣子才能在科技創新與市場誠信中找到平衡點主委你同意嗎\n\n17\n00:05:43,643 --> 00:06:09,415\n我想非常謝謝委員的指導那個對於執法經濟的部分我們都持續在做啦就尤其是數位執法技術的部分所以你們要跨部會討論一下嗎跨部會的部分公益委員剛剛講說是不是在廣告裡面揭露這是AI做的這個部分我們回去再研究看看是不是適合由公平會來做沒有就是你們要主動跟數法部討論啊我們回去會再研細然後再也許不排除跟數法部討論一下到底這個東西應該如何來處理\n\n18\n00:06:10,976 --> 00:06:17,118\n那我回到剛剛一開始跟委員報告就是說其實我們處理不實廣告不管他是不是AI只是他重點還是在於內容他本身當然啊他是AI製成就已經是不實廣告了他沒有得到這個當事人的授權啊我再跟你講的東西跟你再跟我講的東西是不一樣的你知道嗎我再繼續跟你講就是說我想要知道說像演算法在定價上的挑戰現在大家訂飯店\n\n19\n00:06:37,826 --> 00:07:00,113\n訂Uber然後可能買機票都會發現同樣一樣的這個現象只要需求一提高它的定價就會所有平台同時上漲那過去呢大家會覺得說一定要合意才是聯合的行為但是現在是演算法AI自己就算好了\n\n20\n00:07:00,993 --> 00:07:21,604\n那這樣子怎麼做呢演算法還是由人設計的所以不能說這是AI算的人就不管這個也是你要管啊但是在聯合行為的部分我們在執法常會面臨到一些限制因為當然剛剛委員有談到合意的部分很難去認定因為那個價格的match是同一時間所以你很難有看到跟隨\n\n21\n00:07:22,644 --> 00:07:41,628\n所以我的意思是說你要必須你必須這個思維要跟上時代就是說如果很多的業者他都用同一套的定價系統那自動調價那怎麼辦呢這個我們其實在白皮書裡面都有討論到我覺得這可能是要特別去注意這也是一個聯合壟斷的行為啊如果有市政的話當然是啊\n\n22\n00:07:42,369 --> 00:07:47,114\n你要去找呀怎麼可能沒有市政每天都有好不好每天都有你自己看看UBER對那我跟委員談到過然後你再看看訂飯店你可能太忙了沒有時間出去玩但是你總是會坐車吧對不對我剛剛講說執法上有一些局限就在法律的要件上來講是有一些限制的平台跟飯店\n\n23\n00:08:03,453 --> 00:08:16,530\n所以我的意思是說你要去規範你要再做更多的規範去做這件事情否則最終犧牲的也是消費者最終受害的也是消費者這是個重要議題我們會持續的觀察好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝謝謝張家俊委員的諮詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4626\t8829\t感謝主席我是是請那個代理主委謝謝請陳主委謝謝謝謝主席\n14536\t42072\t陳主委好趙委長我看到你們這次的業務報告提到就是公平會正式在研究這個生成式AI相關的競爭法法規的這個議題喔那也對外徵詢意見那這點我要表示肯定喔因為這個新時代喔非常多的新工具那也需要新的規範喔那當然從生成文字然後圖片影音喔\n42753\t57371\t這個AI技術變化非常非常的快那現在短短幾年就已經都普及到整個市場我想請教一下主委針對AI在市場上的實際應用你們後續有什麼具體的規劃跟行動方向嗎\n58257\t82359\t跟委員報告我想委員知道我們對外公開徵詢意見那目前意見已經回來了那目前我們內部在重整這些相關的意見然後思考它到底跟公平交易法的關係有哪些接下來我們會把分析的結果送到委員會去討論討論完了以後我們會朝著是不是有發布一個處理原則或政策說明提出一個方向性的文件出來所以目前大概規劃是這樣\n83280\t109727\t了解那目前這個AI應用中最明顯也最棘手的就是不時廣告的生成喔那我想要知道的是說像現在網路上充斥著用AI生成的這個名人代言影片啊聲音啊表情啊幾乎都一模一樣好像是你現在看到像這個陳美鳳AI陳美鳳喔代言的保養品啊甚至就有這個知名的這個\n112208\t133313\t社長就是像謝金河社長呀藝人啊推出這個投資課程都是被冒用的然後都是假的消費者是分不出真假然後名人的這些權益也受損那市場信任嚴重被侵蝕這一點你們有什麼樣子具體的行為嗎\n134212\t154602\t我想不管是不是AI或不是AI我想不實廣告重點是在於你廣告呈現的內容跟實際是有出入了然後這個出入會導致消費者做出錯誤的決定所以假設今天有這樣的一個冒名做一個不實的見證不實的廣告我們既有的公平交易法的不實廣告規定我知道但你們要怎麼樣去協助他們解罰\n156623\t167107\t就是不是揭發就你要怎麼樣判你要主動出擊啊你不能等人家來他也不知道啊不時廣告我們隨時都有在監控是你要去努力監控而且這個AI的生成的部分他跟真的一樣搞不好你自己的偵查的人員都被騙了我們會監控但是你要怎麼分析是他是AI生成的呢你們有相關的技術嗎因為你看連台大院長吳明賢\n184432\t211663\t都被AI為影片冒名說在用什麼喝的瘦瘦針而且還是院方自己報的警你知道嗎 除了本人自己來揭發說那不是我之外你們有沒有其他判別的方式呢我們都有進行網路監控當然委員談的沒錯什麼樣子的網路監控他知道嗎他明明看這個就是陳美鳳啊你覺得你的網路監控人員會覺得這一肯定是AI 他怎麼判別\n212643\t228280\t你現在肯定沒有工具那我的意思是說科技這麼發達你們要去諧詢這些可以判別是不是AI廣告或是AI影片的工具這是你們現在需求的我們也持續在做\n231604\t249711\t那我想你們的報告裡面就是我就是想要提的我提的這幾個案例為什麼就是因為你們的報告裡面是沒有相關執法的案例那AI廣告生成的速度之快成本之低一天就能夠產出好幾百支影片\n250211\t271097\t那這種內容透過社群媒體的擴散喔它造成的影響是遠比傳統的廣告來得更廣更快如果沒有辦法辨識或揭露的機制的話消費者將會完全陷入資訊混亂這一點我是必須要提醒主委你必須要有工具我相信喔這個\n272817\t292306\t磨高一尺道高一丈你應該是有機會喔可以去找到這些工序你現在已經知道說你沒有工具是不可能辨別的他好幾百個你怎麼知道說哪一個是真的哪一個是假的呢那所以呢是不是能夠建立一個就是AI生成廣告揭露的原則\n293146\t312298\t那只要是AI生成的圖片或者是影片怎麼樣去讓他說能夠分辨說是AI生成的內容呢我想公平會可以扮演一個更加積極的角色因為這已經不是個別的事件了這已經現在是整個市場的\n313578\t327564\t新風險 那公平會也許也可以主導一個跨部會的合作像是跟述發部啊 述發部我相信這一方面可能更是他們的專業共同來推動一個自律的規範或者是教育宣導\n328524\t343283\t那AI其實應該是我們的好幫手應該是人類的好幫手不能變成欺騙市場的一個工具然後這樣子才能在科技創新與市場誠信中找到平衡點主委你同意嗎\n343643\t369415\t我想非常謝謝委員的指導那個對於執法經濟的部分我們都持續在做啦就尤其是數位執法技術的部分所以你們要跨部會討論一下嗎跨部會的部分公益委員剛剛講說是不是在廣告裡面揭露這是AI做的這個部分我們回去再研究看看是不是適合由公平會來做沒有 就是你們要主動跟數法部討論啊我們回去會再研細然後再也許不排除跟數法部討論一下到底這個東西應該如何來處理\n370976\t377118\t那我回到剛剛一開始跟委員報告就是說其實我們處理不實廣告不管他是不是AI 只是他重點還是在於內容他本身當然啊 他是AI製成就已經是不實廣告了他沒有得到這個當事人的授權啊我再跟你講的東西跟你再跟我講的東西是不一樣的你知道嗎我再繼續跟你講就是說我想要知道說像演算法在定價上的挑戰現在大家訂飯店\n397826\t420113\t訂Uber然後可能買機票都會發現同樣一樣的這個現象只要需求一提高它的定價就會所有平台同時上漲那過去呢大家會覺得說一定要合意才是聯合的行為但是現在是演算法AI自己就算好了\n420993\t441604\t那這樣子怎麼做呢演算法還是由人設計的所以不能說這是AI算的人就不管這個也是你要管啊但是在聯合行為的部分我們在執法常會面臨到一些限制因為當然剛剛委員有談到合意的部分很難去認定因為那個價格的match是同一時間所以你很難有看到跟隨\n442644\t461628\t所以我的意思是說你要必須你必須這個思維要跟上時代就是說如果很多的業者他都用同一套的定價系統那自動調價那怎麼辦呢這個我們其實在白皮書裡面都有討論到我覺得這可能是要特別去注意這也是一個聯合壟斷的行為啊如果有市政的話當然是啊\n462369\t467114\t你要去找呀怎麼可能沒有市政每天都有好不好每天都有 你自己看看UBER對 那我跟委員談到過然後你再看看訂飯店你可能太忙了沒有時間出去玩但是你總是會坐車吧對不對我剛剛講說執法上有一些局限就在法律的要件上來講是有一些限制的平台跟飯店\n483453\t496530\t所以我的意思是說你要去規範你要再做更多的規範去做這件事情否則最終犧牲的也是消費者最終受害的也是消費者這是個重要議題我們會持續的觀察好 謝謝 謝謝主委謝謝 謝謝張家俊委員的諮詢\n","txt":"感謝主席我是是請那個代理主委謝謝請陳主委謝謝謝謝主席\n陳主委好趙委長我看到你們這次的業務報告提到就是公平會正式在研究這個生成式AI相關的競爭法法規的這個議題喔那也對外徵詢意見那這點我要表示肯定喔因為這個新時代喔非常多的新工具那也需要新的規範喔那當然從生成文字然後圖片影音喔\n這個AI技術變化非常非常的快那現在短短幾年就已經都普及到整個市場我想請教一下主委針對AI在市場上的實際應用你們後續有什麼具體的規劃跟行動方向嗎\n跟委員報告我想委員知道我們對外公開徵詢意見那目前意見已經回來了那目前我們內部在重整這些相關的意見然後思考它到底跟公平交易法的關係有哪些接下來我們會把分析的結果送到委員會去討論討論完了以後我們會朝著是不是有發布一個處理原則或政策說明提出一個方向性的文件出來所以目前大概規劃是這樣\n了解那目前這個AI應用中最明顯也最棘手的就是不時廣告的生成喔那我想要知道的是說像現在網路上充斥著用AI生成的這個名人代言影片啊聲音啊表情啊幾乎都一模一樣好像是你現在看到像這個陳美鳳AI陳美鳳喔代言的保養品啊甚至就有這個知名的這個\n社長就是像謝金河社長呀藝人啊推出這個投資課程都是被冒用的然後都是假的消費者是分不出真假然後名人的這些權益也受損那市場信任嚴重被侵蝕這一點你們有什麼樣子具體的行為嗎\n我想不管是不是AI或不是AI我想不實廣告重點是在於你廣告呈現的內容跟實際是有出入了然後這個出入會導致消費者做出錯誤的決定所以假設今天有這樣的一個冒名做一個不實的見證不實的廣告我們既有的公平交易法的不實廣告規定我知道但你們要怎麼樣去協助他們解罰\n就是不是揭發就你要怎麼樣判你要主動出擊啊你不能等人家來他也不知道啊不時廣告我們隨時都有在監控是你要去努力監控而且這個AI的生成的部分他跟真的一樣搞不好你自己的偵查的人員都被騙了我們會監控但是你要怎麼分析是他是AI生成的呢你們有相關的技術嗎因為你看連台大院長吳明賢\n都被AI為影片冒名說在用什麼喝的瘦瘦針而且還是院方自己報的警你知道嗎 除了本人自己來揭發說那不是我之外你們有沒有其他判別的方式呢我們都有進行網路監控當然委員談的沒錯什麼樣子的網路監控他知道嗎他明明看這個就是陳美鳳啊你覺得你的網路監控人員會覺得這一肯定是AI 他怎麼判別\n你現在肯定沒有工具那我的意思是說科技這麼發達你們要去諧詢這些可以判別是不是AI廣告或是AI影片的工具這是你們現在需求的我們也持續在做\n那我想你們的報告裡面就是我就是想要提的我提的這幾個案例為什麼就是因為你們的報告裡面是沒有相關執法的案例那AI廣告生成的速度之快成本之低一天就能夠產出好幾百支影片\n那這種內容透過社群媒體的擴散喔它造成的影響是遠比傳統的廣告來得更廣更快如果沒有辦法辨識或揭露的機制的話消費者將會完全陷入資訊混亂這一點我是必須要提醒主委你必須要有工具我相信喔這個\n磨高一尺道高一丈你應該是有機會喔可以去找到這些工序你現在已經知道說你沒有工具是不可能辨別的他好幾百個你怎麼知道說哪一個是真的哪一個是假的呢那所以呢是不是能夠建立一個就是AI生成廣告揭露的原則\n那只要是AI生成的圖片或者是影片怎麼樣去讓他說能夠分辨說是AI生成的內容呢我想公平會可以扮演一個更加積極的角色因為這已經不是個別的事件了這已經現在是整個市場的\n新風險 那公平會也許也可以主導一個跨部會的合作像是跟述發部啊 述發部我相信這一方面可能更是他們的專業共同來推動一個自律的規範或者是教育宣導\n那AI其實應該是我們的好幫手應該是人類的好幫手不能變成欺騙市場的一個工具然後這樣子才能在科技創新與市場誠信中找到平衡點主委你同意嗎\n我想非常謝謝委員的指導那個對於執法經濟的部分我們都持續在做啦就尤其是數位執法技術的部分所以你們要跨部會討論一下嗎跨部會的部分公益委員剛剛講說是不是在廣告裡面揭露這是AI做的這個部分我們回去再研究看看是不是適合由公平會來做沒有 就是你們要主動跟數法部討論啊我們回去會再研細然後再也許不排除跟數法部討論一下到底這個東西應該如何來處理\n那我回到剛剛一開始跟委員報告就是說其實我們處理不實廣告不管他是不是AI 只是他重點還是在於內容他本身當然啊 他是AI製成就已經是不實廣告了他沒有得到這個當事人的授權啊我再跟你講的東西跟你再跟我講的東西是不一樣的你知道嗎我再繼續跟你講就是說我想要知道說像演算法在定價上的挑戰現在大家訂飯店\n訂Uber然後可能買機票都會發現同樣一樣的這個現象只要需求一提高它的定價就會所有平台同時上漲那過去呢大家會覺得說一定要合意才是聯合的行為但是現在是演算法AI自己就算好了\n那這樣子怎麼做呢演算法還是由人設計的所以不能說這是AI算的人就不管這個也是你要管啊但是在聯合行為的部分我們在執法常會面臨到一些限制因為當然剛剛委員有談到合意的部分很難去認定因為那個價格的match是同一時間所以你很難有看到跟隨\n所以我的意思是說你要必須你必須這個思維要跟上時代就是說如果很多的業者他都用同一套的定價系統那自動調價那怎麼辦呢這個我們其實在白皮書裡面都有討論到我覺得這可能是要特別去注意這也是一個聯合壟斷的行為啊如果有市政的話當然是啊\n你要去找呀怎麼可能沒有市政每天都有好不好每天都有 你自己看看UBER對 那我跟委員談到過然後你再看看訂飯店你可能太忙了沒有時間出去玩但是你總是會坐車吧對不對我剛剛講說執法上有一些局限就在法律的要件上來講是有一些限制的平台跟飯店\n所以我的意思是說你要去規範你要再做更多的規範去做這件事情否則最終犧牲的也是消費者最終受害的也是消費者這是個重要議題我們會持續的觀察好 謝謝 謝謝主委謝謝 謝謝張家俊委員的諮詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.626 --> 00:08.829\n感謝主席我是是請那個代理主委謝謝請陳主委謝謝謝謝主席\n\n00:14.536 --> 00:42.072\n陳主委好趙委長我看到你們這次的業務報告提到就是公平會正式在研究這個生成式AI相關的競爭法法規的這個議題喔那也對外徵詢意見那這點我要表示肯定喔因為這個新時代喔非常多的新工具那也需要新的規範喔那當然從生成文字然後圖片影音喔\n\n00:42.753 --> 00:57.371\n這個AI技術變化非常非常的快那現在短短幾年就已經都普及到整個市場我想請教一下主委針對AI在市場上的實際應用你們後續有什麼具體的規劃跟行動方向嗎\n\n00:58.257 --> 01:22.359\n跟委員報告我想委員知道我們對外公開徵詢意見那目前意見已經回來了那目前我們內部在重整這些相關的意見然後思考它到底跟公平交易法的關係有哪些接下來我們會把分析的結果送到委員會去討論討論完了以後我們會朝著是不是有發布一個處理原則或政策說明提出一個方向性的文件出來所以目前大概規劃是這樣\n\n01:23.280 --> 01:49.727\n了解那目前這個AI應用中最明顯也最棘手的就是不時廣告的生成喔那我想要知道的是說像現在網路上充斥著用AI生成的這個名人代言影片啊聲音啊表情啊幾乎都一模一樣好像是你現在看到像這個陳美鳳AI陳美鳳喔代言的保養品啊甚至就有這個知名的這個\n\n01:52.208 --> 02:13.313\n社長就是像謝金河社長呀藝人啊推出這個投資課程都是被冒用的然後都是假的消費者是分不出真假然後名人的這些權益也受損那市場信任嚴重被侵蝕這一點你們有什麼樣子具體的行為嗎\n\n02:14.212 --> 02:34.602\n我想不管是不是AI或不是AI我想不實廣告重點是在於你廣告呈現的內容跟實際是有出入了然後這個出入會導致消費者做出錯誤的決定所以假設今天有這樣的一個冒名做一個不實的見證不實的廣告我們既有的公平交易法的不實廣告規定我知道但你們要怎麼樣去協助他們解罰\n\n02:36.623 --> 02:47.107\n就是不是揭發就你要怎麼樣判你要主動出擊啊你不能等人家來他也不知道啊不時廣告我們隨時都有在監控是你要去努力監控而且這個AI的生成的部分他跟真的一樣搞不好你自己的偵查的人員都被騙了我們會監控但是你要怎麼分析是他是AI生成的呢你們有相關的技術嗎因為你看連台大院長吳明賢\n\n03:04.432 --> 03:31.663\n都被AI為影片冒名說在用什麼喝的瘦瘦針而且還是院方自己報的警你知道嗎除了本人自己來揭發說那不是我之外你們有沒有其他判別的方式呢我們都有進行網路監控當然委員談的沒錯什麼樣子的網路監控他知道嗎他明明看這個就是陳美鳳啊你覺得你的網路監控人員會覺得這一肯定是AI他怎麼判別\n\n03:32.643 --> 03:48.280\n你現在肯定沒有工具那我的意思是說科技這麼發達你們要去諧詢這些可以判別是不是AI廣告或是AI影片的工具這是你們現在需求的我們也持續在做\n\n03:51.604 --> 04:09.711\n那我想你們的報告裡面就是我就是想要提的我提的這幾個案例為什麼就是因為你們的報告裡面是沒有相關執法的案例那AI廣告生成的速度之快成本之低一天就能夠產出好幾百支影片\n\n04:10.211 --> 04:31.097\n那這種內容透過社群媒體的擴散喔它造成的影響是遠比傳統的廣告來得更廣更快如果沒有辦法辨識或揭露的機制的話消費者將會完全陷入資訊混亂這一點我是必須要提醒主委你必須要有工具我相信喔這個\n\n04:32.817 --> 04:52.306\n磨高一尺道高一丈你應該是有機會喔可以去找到這些工序你現在已經知道說你沒有工具是不可能辨別的他好幾百個你怎麼知道說哪一個是真的哪一個是假的呢那所以呢是不是能夠建立一個就是AI生成廣告揭露的原則\n\n04:53.146 --> 05:12.298\n那只要是AI生成的圖片或者是影片怎麼樣去讓他說能夠分辨說是AI生成的內容呢我想公平會可以扮演一個更加積極的角色因為這已經不是個別的事件了這已經現在是整個市場的\n\n05:13.578 --> 05:27.564\n新風險那公平會也許也可以主導一個跨部會的合作像是跟述發部啊述發部我相信這一方面可能更是他們的專業共同來推動一個自律的規範或者是教育宣導\n\n05:28.524 --> 05:43.283\n那AI其實應該是我們的好幫手應該是人類的好幫手不能變成欺騙市場的一個工具然後這樣子才能在科技創新與市場誠信中找到平衡點主委你同意嗎\n\n05:43.643 --> 06:09.415\n我想非常謝謝委員的指導那個對於執法經濟的部分我們都持續在做啦就尤其是數位執法技術的部分所以你們要跨部會討論一下嗎跨部會的部分公益委員剛剛講說是不是在廣告裡面揭露這是AI做的這個部分我們回去再研究看看是不是適合由公平會來做沒有就是你們要主動跟數法部討論啊我們回去會再研細然後再也許不排除跟數法部討論一下到底這個東西應該如何來處理\n\n06:10.976 --> 06:17.118\n那我回到剛剛一開始跟委員報告就是說其實我們處理不實廣告不管他是不是AI只是他重點還是在於內容他本身當然啊他是AI製成就已經是不實廣告了他沒有得到這個當事人的授權啊我再跟你講的東西跟你再跟我講的東西是不一樣的你知道嗎我再繼續跟你講就是說我想要知道說像演算法在定價上的挑戰現在大家訂飯店\n\n06:37.826 --> 07:00.113\n訂Uber然後可能買機票都會發現同樣一樣的這個現象只要需求一提高它的定價就會所有平台同時上漲那過去呢大家會覺得說一定要合意才是聯合的行為但是現在是演算法AI自己就算好了\n\n07:00.993 --> 07:21.604\n那這樣子怎麼做呢演算法還是由人設計的所以不能說這是AI算的人就不管這個也是你要管啊但是在聯合行為的部分我們在執法常會面臨到一些限制因為當然剛剛委員有談到合意的部分很難去認定因為那個價格的match是同一時間所以你很難有看到跟隨\n\n07:22.644 --> 07:41.628\n所以我的意思是說你要必須你必須這個思維要跟上時代就是說如果很多的業者他都用同一套的定價系統那自動調價那怎麼辦呢這個我們其實在白皮書裡面都有討論到我覺得這可能是要特別去注意這也是一個聯合壟斷的行為啊如果有市政的話當然是啊\n\n07:42.369 --> 07:47.114\n你要去找呀怎麼可能沒有市政每天都有好不好每天都有你自己看看UBER對那我跟委員談到過然後你再看看訂飯店你可能太忙了沒有時間出去玩但是你總是會坐車吧對不對我剛剛講說執法上有一些局限就在法律的要件上來講是有一些限制的平台跟飯店\n\n08:03.453 --> 08:16.530\n所以我的意思是說你要去規範你要再做更多的規範去做這件事情否則最終犧牲的也是消費者最終受害的也是消費者這是個重要議題我們會持續的觀察好謝謝謝謝主委謝謝謝謝張家俊委員的諮詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.626,"end":8.829,"text":"感謝主席我是是請那個代理主委謝謝請陳主委謝謝謝謝主席"},{"start":14.536,"end":42.072,"text":"陳主委好趙委長我看到你們這次的業務報告提到就是公平會正式在研究這個生成式AI相關的競爭法法規的這個議題喔那也對外徵詢意見那這點我要表示肯定喔因為這個新時代喔非常多的新工具那也需要新的規範喔那當然從生成文字然後圖片影音喔"},{"start":42.753,"end":57.371,"text":"這個AI技術變化非常非常的快那現在短短幾年就已經都普及到整個市場我想請教一下主委針對AI在市場上的實際應用你們後續有什麼具體的規劃跟行動方向嗎"},{"start":58.257,"end":82.359,"text":"跟委員報告我想委員知道我們對外公開徵詢意見那目前意見已經回來了那目前我們內部在重整這些相關的意見然後思考它到底跟公平交易法的關係有哪些接下來我們會把分析的結果送到委員會去討論討論完了以後我們會朝著是不是有發布一個處理原則或政策說明提出一個方向性的文件出來所以目前大概規劃是這樣"},{"start":83.28,"end":109.727,"text":"了解那目前這個AI應用中最明顯也最棘手的就是不時廣告的生成喔那我想要知道的是說像現在網路上充斥著用AI生成的這個名人代言影片啊聲音啊表情啊幾乎都一模一樣好像是你現在看到像這個陳美鳳AI陳美鳳喔代言的保養品啊甚至就有這個知名的這個"},{"start":112.208,"end":133.313,"text":"社長就是像謝金河社長呀藝人啊推出這個投資課程都是被冒用的然後都是假的消費者是分不出真假然後名人的這些權益也受損那市場信任嚴重被侵蝕這一點你們有什麼樣子具體的行為嗎"},{"start":134.212,"end":154.602,"text":"我想不管是不是AI或不是AI我想不實廣告重點是在於你廣告呈現的內容跟實際是有出入了然後這個出入會導致消費者做出錯誤的決定所以假設今天有這樣的一個冒名做一個不實的見證不實的廣告我們既有的公平交易法的不實廣告規定我知道但你們要怎麼樣去協助他們解罰"},{"start":156.623,"end":167.107,"text":"就是不是揭發就你要怎麼樣判你要主動出擊啊你不能等人家來他也不知道啊不時廣告我們隨時都有在監控是你要去努力監控而且這個AI的生成的部分他跟真的一樣搞不好你自己的偵查的人員都被騙了我們會監控但是你要怎麼分析是他是AI生成的呢你們有相關的技術嗎因為你看連台大院長吳明賢"},{"start":184.432,"end":211.663,"text":"都被AI為影片冒名說在用什麼喝的瘦瘦針而且還是院方自己報的警你知道嗎 除了本人自己來揭發說那不是我之外你們有沒有其他判別的方式呢我們都有進行網路監控當然委員談的沒錯什麼樣子的網路監控他知道嗎他明明看這個就是陳美鳳啊你覺得你的網路監控人員會覺得這一肯定是AI 他怎麼判別"},{"start":212.643,"end":228.28,"text":"你現在肯定沒有工具那我的意思是說科技這麼發達你們要去諧詢這些可以判別是不是AI廣告或是AI影片的工具這是你們現在需求的我們也持續在做"},{"start":231.604,"end":249.711,"text":"那我想你們的報告裡面就是我就是想要提的我提的這幾個案例為什麼就是因為你們的報告裡面是沒有相關執法的案例那AI廣告生成的速度之快成本之低一天就能夠產出好幾百支影片"},{"start":250.211,"end":271.097,"text":"那這種內容透過社群媒體的擴散喔它造成的影響是遠比傳統的廣告來得更廣更快如果沒有辦法辨識或揭露的機制的話消費者將會完全陷入資訊混亂這一點我是必須要提醒主委你必須要有工具我相信喔這個"},{"start":272.817,"end":292.306,"text":"磨高一尺道高一丈你應該是有機會喔可以去找到這些工序你現在已經知道說你沒有工具是不可能辨別的他好幾百個你怎麼知道說哪一個是真的哪一個是假的呢那所以呢是不是能夠建立一個就是AI生成廣告揭露的原則"},{"start":293.146,"end":312.298,"text":"那只要是AI生成的圖片或者是影片怎麼樣去讓他說能夠分辨說是AI生成的內容呢我想公平會可以扮演一個更加積極的角色因為這已經不是個別的事件了這已經現在是整個市場的"},{"start":313.578,"end":327.564,"text":"新風險 那公平會也許也可以主導一個跨部會的合作像是跟述發部啊 述發部我相信這一方面可能更是他們的專業共同來推動一個自律的規範或者是教育宣導"},{"start":328.524,"end":343.283,"text":"那AI其實應該是我們的好幫手應該是人類的好幫手不能變成欺騙市場的一個工具然後這樣子才能在科技創新與市場誠信中找到平衡點主委你同意嗎"},{"start":343.643,"end":369.415,"text":"我想非常謝謝委員的指導那個對於執法經濟的部分我們都持續在做啦就尤其是數位執法技術的部分所以你們要跨部會討論一下嗎跨部會的部分公益委員剛剛講說是不是在廣告裡面揭露這是AI做的這個部分我們回去再研究看看是不是適合由公平會來做沒有 就是你們要主動跟數法部討論啊我們回去會再研細然後再也許不排除跟數法部討論一下到底這個東西應該如何來處理"},{"start":370.976,"end":377.118,"text":"那我回到剛剛一開始跟委員報告就是說其實我們處理不實廣告不管他是不是AI 只是他重點還是在於內容他本身當然啊 他是AI製成就已經是不實廣告了他沒有得到這個當事人的授權啊我再跟你講的東西跟你再跟我講的東西是不一樣的你知道嗎我再繼續跟你講就是說我想要知道說像演算法在定價上的挑戰現在大家訂飯店"},{"start":397.826,"end":420.113,"text":"訂Uber然後可能買機票都會發現同樣一樣的這個現象只要需求一提高它的定價就會所有平台同時上漲那過去呢大家會覺得說一定要合意才是聯合的行為但是現在是演算法AI自己就算好了"},{"start":420.993,"end":441.604,"text":"那這樣子怎麼做呢演算法還是由人設計的所以不能說這是AI算的人就不管這個也是你要管啊但是在聯合行為的部分我們在執法常會面臨到一些限制因為當然剛剛委員有談到合意的部分很難去認定因為那個價格的match是同一時間所以你很難有看到跟隨"},{"start":442.644,"end":461.628,"text":"所以我的意思是說你要必須你必須這個思維要跟上時代就是說如果很多的業者他都用同一套的定價系統那自動調價那怎麼辦呢這個我們其實在白皮書裡面都有討論到我覺得這可能是要特別去注意這也是一個聯合壟斷的行為啊如果有市政的話當然是啊"},{"start":462.369,"end":467.114,"text":"你要去找呀怎麼可能沒有市政每天都有好不好每天都有 你自己看看UBER對 那我跟委員談到過然後你再看看訂飯店你可能太忙了沒有時間出去玩但是你總是會坐車吧對不對我剛剛講說執法上有一些局限就在法律的要件上來講是有一些限制的平台跟飯店"},{"start":483.453,"end":496.53,"text":"所以我的意思是說你要去規範你要再做更多的規範去做這件事情否則最終犧牲的也是消費者最終受害的也是消費者這是個重要議題我們會持續的觀察好 謝謝 謝謝主委謝謝 謝謝張家俊委員的諮詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":645,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（11時25分）感謝主席。我請代理主委，謝謝。"],["主席：請陳主委，謝謝。"],["張委員嘉郡：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。"],["張委員嘉郡：陳主委好。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：張委員早。"],["張委員嘉郡：我看到你們這次的業務報告提到，公平會正式在研究生成式AI相關的競爭法法規的議題，也對外徵詢意見，這一點我要表示肯定，因為新時代有非常多的新工具，也需要新的規範。從生成文字，然後圖片、影音，AI技術變化非常非常的快，現在短短幾年就已經普及到整個市場，我想請教一下主委，針對AI在市場上的實際應用，你們後續有什麼具體的規劃跟行動方向嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跟委員報告，我想委員也知道我們對外公開徵詢意見，目前意見已經回來了，我們內部在綜整這些相關的意見，然後思考它到底跟公平交易法的關係有哪些？接下來我們會把分析結果送到委員會討論。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：討論完了以後，我們會朝著是不是發布處理原則或政策說明，提出一個方向性的文件出來？所以目前大概規劃是這樣。"],["張委員嘉郡：了解。目前AI應用中最明顯也最棘手的，就是不實廣告的生成，我想要知道的是像現在網路上充斥著用AI生成的名人代言影片，聲音、表情幾乎都一模一樣，像是你現在看到的AI陳美鳳代言的保養品，甚至就有知名的社長，像謝金河社長、藝人推出投資課程都是被冒用的、都是假的，消費者分不出真假，名人的這些權益也受損，市場信任嚴重被侵蝕，這一點你們有什麼樣具體的行為嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想不管是AI或不是AI，我想不實廣告重點是在於廣告呈現的內容跟實際是有出入的，然後這個出入會導致消費者做出錯誤的決定。所以假設今天有這樣一個冒名做不實的見證、不實的廣告，我們既有的公平交易法的不實廣告規定是可以處理的。"],["張委員嘉郡：我知道，但你們要怎麼樣去協助他們揭發？你知道嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：揭發？"],["張委員嘉郡：不是揭發，就是你要主動出擊，你不能等人家來，他也不知道啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：不實廣告我們隨時都有在監控，在網路上都有在監控。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，你要去努力監控，而且這個AI的生成跟真的一樣，搞不好你自己的偵查人員都被騙了。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們會監控，一旦發現有問題……"],["張委員嘉郡：你要怎麼分析它是AI生成的呢？你們有相關的技術嗎？因為你看連臺大院長吳明賢都被AI偽影片冒名說在用什麼喝的瘦瘦針，而且還是院方自己報的警，你知道嗎？除了本人自己來揭發說那不是我之外，你們有沒有其他判別的方式呢？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們都有進行網路監控，當然委員談的沒錯……"],["張委員嘉郡：什麼樣子的網路監控？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：就是我們會在網路上看。"],["張委員嘉郡：他會知道嗎？他明明看這個就是陳美鳳啊，你覺得你的網路監控人員會覺得說這肯定是AI，他怎麼判別？你現在肯定沒有工具。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["張委員嘉郡：我的意思是說，科技這麼發達，你們要去協尋這些可以判別是不是AI廣告或是AI影片的工具，這是你們現在需求的。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：執法精進的部分，我們也持續在做。"],["張委員嘉郡：是。我想你們的報告裡面就是我想要提的，我為什麼提這幾個案例？就是因為你們的報告裡面沒有相關執法的案例，AI廣告生成的速度之快、成本之低，一天就能夠產出好幾百支影片，那這種內容透過社群媒體的擴散，它造成的影響是遠比傳統廣告來得更廣、更快，如果沒有辦法辨識或揭露機制的話，消費者將會完全陷入資訊混亂，這一點我必須要提醒主委你必須要有工具，我相信魔高一尺，道高一丈，你應該有機會可以找到這些工具，你現在已經知道你若沒有工具是不可能辨別的，它有好幾百個，你怎麼知道哪一個是真的、哪一個是假的呢？所以是不是能夠建立一個AI生成廣告揭露的原則？只要是AI生成的圖片或影片，看要怎麼樣分辨是不是AI生成的內容，我想公平會在這方面可以扮演一個更加積極的角色，因為這已經不是個別的事件了，現在已經是整個市場的新風險，公平會也許可以主導一個跨部會的合作，像是跟數發部合作，共同來推動自律的規範或教育宣導，我相信這一方面可能更是數發部的專業。","AI其實應該是人類的好幫手，不能讓它變成欺騙市場的一個工具，這樣才能在科技創新與市場誠信中找到平衡點，主委，你同意嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：非常謝謝委員的指導，對於執法精進的部分，我們都持續在做了，尤其是數位執法技術的部分。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你們要跨部會討論一下嗎？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：跨部會的部分，委員剛剛講是不是在廣告裡面揭露這是AI做的，這個部分我們回去再研究看看，是不是適合由公平會來做。"],["張委員嘉郡：沒有，就是你們要主動跟數發部討論。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們回去會再研析，也許不排除跟數發部討論一下到底這個東西應該如何來處理。我回到剛剛一開始跟委員報告的，其實我們處理不實廣告，不管它是不是AI，主要重點還是在內容的本身。"],["張委員嘉郡：當然啦，它是AI製成的就已經是不實廣告了，它沒有得到當事人的授權，我在跟你講的東西跟你在跟我講的東西是不一樣的，你知道嗎？我再繼續跟你講，我想要知道像演算法在定價上的挑戰，現在大家訂飯店、訂Uber、買機票都會發現同樣的現象，只要需求一提高，所有平台上的定價就會同時上漲，過去大家會覺得一定要合意才是聯合的行為，但現在是演算法AI自己就算好了，那這樣怎麼辦？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：演算法還是由人設計的，不能說這是AI算的，人就不管。"],["張委員嘉郡：這個也是你要管的。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：但是在聯合行為的部分，我們在執法上常會面臨到一些限制，當然剛剛委員有談到合意的部分，很難去認定，因為那個價格的match是同一時間，所以你很難看到跟隨。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以我的意思是，你的思維必須跟上時代，如果很多的業者都用同一套的定價系統自動調價怎麼辦呢？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：有，這個我們在白皮書裡面其實都有討論到。"],["張委員嘉郡：我覺得這可能要特別去注意，這也是一個聯合壟斷的行為啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：如果有事證的話，當然是啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：你要去找啊！怎麼可能沒有事證？每天都有，好不好？每天都有，你自己看看Uber。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：對，但我跟委員談到過，在執法上……"],["張委員嘉郡：你再看看訂飯店，你可能太忙了，沒有時間出去玩，但是你總是會坐車吧？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我剛剛說執法上有一些侷限，就是在法律的要件上來講是有一些限制的，因為平台跟飯店算不算是競爭……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以我的意思是你要再做更多的規範，否則最終犧牲的還是消費者，最終受害的也是消費者。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：這是個重要議題，我們會持續的觀察。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝張嘉郡委員的質詢。","現在請蔡易餘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-4","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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