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{\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 484.187, \"end\": 484.448, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 484.448, \"end\": 484.708, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 484.708, \"end\": 484.868, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 484.868, \"end\": 485.708, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 485.708, \"end\": 485.768, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 485.768, \"end\": 485.808, \"score\": 0.494}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 485.808, \"end\": 485.928, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 485.928, \"end\": 486.049, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 486.049, \"end\": 486.169, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 486.169, \"end\": 486.329, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 486.329, \"end\": 486.469, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 486.469, \"end\": 486.569, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 486.569, \"end\": 486.589, \"score\": 0.993}]}, {\"start\": 487.256, \"end\": 511.602, \"text\": \"剛剛委員談到的魚飼料這是我們處分的因為它主要是聯合的行為聯合去做一些就111年這一次嘛那委員我想關切的是說上游的原物料價格降低為什麼沒有轉嫁到下方這個問題那這個問題裡面有很多複雜的因素啦有些也不見得是公平會可以介入了因為中間的那個部分有涉及到不同的經銷成本還有相關的成本的考慮每個業者都不一樣啦\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 487.256, \"end\": 487.596, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 487.596, \"end\": 487.956, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 487.956, \"end\": 488.096, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"魚\"}, {\"word\": \"飼\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 488.096, \"end\": 488.496, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 488.496, \"end\": 488.616, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 488.616, \"end\": 489.016, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 489.016, \"end\": 489.197, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 489.197, \"end\": 489.457, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"啊\", \"start\": 527.892, \"end\": 528.733, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 528.733, \"end\": 529.193, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"際\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 529.193, \"end\": 529.373, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 529.373, \"end\": 529.533, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 529.533, \"end\": 529.693, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 529.693, \"end\": 529.934, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"降\", \"start\": 529.934, \"end\": 530.934, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 530.934, \"end\": 531.194, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 531.194, \"end\": 531.395, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 531.395, \"end\": 531.755, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 531.755, \"end\": 532.035, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 532.035, \"end\": 532.255, 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{\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 532.255, \"end\": 532.475, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 532.475, \"end\": 533.156, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 533.156, \"end\": 533.416, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 533.416, \"end\": 533.736, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 533.736, \"end\": 533.916, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 533.916, \"end\": 534.076, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"售\", \"start\": 534.076, \"end\": 534.296, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"價\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 534.296, \"end\": 535.677, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 535.677, \"end\": 535.877, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 535.877, \"end\": 535.897, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 537.21, \"end\": 537.41, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 537.41, \"end\": 537.55, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 537.55, \"end\": 537.67, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 537.67, \"end\": 538.732, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 538.732, \"end\": 538.912, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 538.912, \"end\": 539.072, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 539.072, \"end\": 539.453, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 539.453, \"end\": 539.633, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 539.633, \"end\": 539.954, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"查\", \"start\": 539.954, \"end\": 540.174, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"聯\"}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 540.174, \"end\": 540.314, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 540.314, \"end\": 540.655, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 540.655, \"end\": 540.895, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 540.895, 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{\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 542.959, \"end\": 543.099, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 543.099, \"end\": 543.64, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"構\"}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 543.64, \"end\": 543.8, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"等\", \"start\": 543.8, \"end\": 543.96, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"各\", \"start\": 543.96, \"end\": 544.1, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 544.1, \"end\": 544.241, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 544.241, \"end\": 544.441, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 544.441, \"end\": 544.641, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 544.641, \"end\": 544.882, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"瑜\", \"start\": 544.882, \"end\": 545.022, \"score\": 0.822}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 545.022, \"end\": 545.162, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 545.162, \"end\": 545.182, \"score\": 0.003}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,865 --> 00:00:15,229\n謝謝召委那我們是有請公平會我們陳代理主委我們請陳主委謝謝主委你身為公平會的主委當然就是要讓所有的制度尤其是一些就是要制度公平啦我跟前舉一個很不公平的事情\n\n2\n00:00:37,935 --> 00:00:59,021\n超級不公平我剛剛從我們七樓衝來這裡我輸給我們張家俊委員因為張家俊苗條本身就速度會比我快啦可是我覺得還有最重要的原因我們這個立法院這個我們韓院長修理電梯修理好久好久\n\n3\n00:01:00,188 --> 00:01:15,397\n然後你看他兩邊不公平這不公平的地方來了你看右邊這張照片是單數樓層單數樓層又多停B2跟B3左邊這邊是雙數樓層他只停B1沒有B2跟B3然後你看單數樓層12樓副院長的辦公室也停\n\n4\n00:01:26,239 --> 00:01:40,513\n我宿樓當然有12樓所以你看單宿樓層就要承載更多的挺等待的時間來跟我們曾經的相親難道權益會比較低嗎\n\n5\n00:01:42,717 --> 00:02:09,199\n這個真的不公平拜託這個要跟我們韓院長這個真的反映一下兩個老君也不公平阿丹有夠久的立法院這樣的效率真的是不好好言歸正傳好可以了這個好好主委我想跟你聊一下\n\n6\n00:02:10,367 --> 00:02:25,827\n我們現在的電信業因為今年九月的時候遠傳跟台歌大宣布要取消4G吃到飽不限速的優惠他們宣布取消4G吃到飽這件事情\n\n7\n00:02:27,253 --> 00:02:48,984\n基本上對民眾是很有感因為我們知道現在對於大部分的用戶來說4G都會覺得事實上是足夠我的生活的一個網路的一個服務所以覺得4G夠的情況之下我要生成5G那個費用就提升很多一倍有餘\n\n8\n00:02:50,466 --> 00:03:00,472\n所以既然提升了這麼多的費用然後你現在說要取消4G吃到飽然後遠傳跟中華電信兩家就一起跳出來\n\n9\n00:03:01,957 --> 00:03:19,976\n我覺得這部分一些決策的過程是不是公平會應該要也要表示一點意見呢我想這個取消的部分據我們的了解是如果消費者直接到門市的部分是可以被取消的應該是在經銷商那一塊才會取消那另外就是說剛剛委員關切的這個好像\n\n10\n00:03:20,797 --> 00:03:38,373\n所有的這個公司都在同一個時間要同時取消當然當然這個如果有涉及到聯合聯合來調整或是變更甚至取消一些交易條件的話這不排除是有聯合行為但是因為因為我們就看數字嘛看數字我這個表裡面你看現在4G的用戶數\n\n11\n00:03:39,724 --> 00:04:08,777\n不管是中華電信台灣大哥大和遠傳電信4G的用戶明顯都還大於5G的用戶那既然是明顯都還大於而且你看一家是690萬一家是580萬另外一家是470萬都這麼多用戶的情況之下然後你就冒難的說我要去變更你4G用戶的他的服務的一個條件這個條件事實上對於所有的使用者來說是影響很大的\n\n12\n00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:36,431\n既然有這麼大的一個變更然後做出這樣一個決策我覺得這中間公平會應該還是要有角色我們當然就剛剛跟委員報告了如果有聯合去取消這些條件的話這個當然就違反聯合行為的疑慮但是如果個別的廠商基於他自己成本的考慮還有服務品質跟各方面的考慮他去做一些調整原則上公平會比較沒有介入的空間大概是這樣主委你要知道現在5G是這樣\n\n13\n00:04:38,502 --> 00:05:06,472\n5G我覺得我們它的架設的進度是慢的尤其是在越偏鄉的地方它說是5G的服務事實上你看已經幾年了它已經運作了多久5G運作多久了當時政府也是一個整個的一個他們去得標的金額也是有分配讓他們去建設5G你現在很多事實上它雖然叫做5G可是你一旦到了偏鄉到了山上還是到海邊還是跳回來4G\n\n14\n00:05:08,311 --> 00:05:36,121\n所以拖了這麼久的時間看起來5G的架設就是跟不上嘛跟不上大家的期待嘛那他們現在說要把4G逐漸把4G變嚴格那一定一個基本的想法就是覺得要希望大家提升大家都來5G未來可能還會有更新的更新的頻寬要出來立足點應該是這樣但是看起來現在4G沒有辦法跳到5G就一定有它的原因啊\n\n15\n00:05:37,348 --> 00:05:52,423\n第一費用太貴第二基本上5G服務的效率沒辦法超越到4G讓整個4G覺得說真的比人慢比較不方便看起來就不是這樣啊\n\n16\n00:05:53,144 --> 00:06:19,720\n我想這個當然是新技術轉換之間的一個對消費者可能產生一個震動期那這個的確是值得去關切的問題不過總統剛剛跟委員報告了從公平會的執法角度來看的話我們是比較關切有沒有聯合去做這樣的事情那至於說5G的進度品質如何這比較不是公平會所能夠介入去處理的部分對但是我比較在意他們現在要把4G的就是費用調整然後服務也要調整\n\n17\n00:06:20,460 --> 00:06:48,723\n這件事我是在意的啊看起來4G現在還是使用的大宗啊對啊但是他現在要去把4G的部分這個對消費者的權利就明顯的明顯的影響到了然後電信業者會同時間丟出這樣的訊息我覺得這件事公平會你要有角色啦我們會從我們本會的立場去了解這件事情後續的發展那我再另外一個議題啦就是我昨天事實上在這裡也有去跟農業部在反映現在\n\n18\n00:06:52,833 --> 00:07:12,184\n你說齊了的價格不管是畜牧業或者是養殖尤其魚飼料的價格不管是哪一個品牌都飆升到底為什麼他們的成本是哪一端在提高因為我們知道現在國際玉米價格也下降了\n\n19\n00:07:13,694 --> 00:07:31,227\n國際玉米價格下降照理說這個飼料因為他用了這個飼料的玉米啊怎樣應該要跟著價格也要下降結果沒有下降價格反而還提高事實上公平會在111年的時候也有針對國內啦這是針對魚飼料我當時候也有認為說他們同時漲價3塊涉及聯合行為111年\n\n20\n00:07:40,874 --> 00:08:06,589\n那我現在我不知道我沒辦法推斷有沒有聯合行為但是我看到的很多漁民很多我們的養殖畜牧業者都是跟我們說的起了起了會嫁小鐵哥起了會嫁小鐵哥跟國際行情又奪不起來國際行情的價碼在下降我們過來價格一直在提高這件事情我覺得我們公平會是不是也是了解一下\n\n21\n00:08:07,256 --> 00:08:31,602\n剛剛委員談到的魚飼料這是我們處分的因為它主要是聯合的行為聯合去做一些就111年這一次嘛那委員我想關切的是說上游的原物料價格降低為什麼沒有轉嫁到下方這個問題那這個問題裡面有很多複雜的因素啦有些也不見得是公平會可以介入了因為中間的那個部分有涉及到不同的經銷成本還有相關的成本的考慮每個業者都不一樣啦\n\n22\n00:08:32,222 --> 00:08:55,897\n不過我們還是會持續去觀察這個事實上他們的作業都一樣因為台灣在飼料這一塊就是雜糧嘛就是黃小玉嘛從過去以來就是一直都是仰賴進口啊所以他們唯一的波動就是國際行情上去啊現在國際行情是下降結果看起來他們的成本他們的對外的售價還是提高\n\n23\n00:08:57,210 --> 00:09:05,182\n我是覺得這個了解一下我們在調查聯合行為過程當中也會去了解這些事情就是他們的成本的結構等等各方面的好謝謝謝謝義瑜委員的資訊\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9865\t15229\t謝謝召委那我們是有請公平會我們陳代理主委我們請陳主委謝謝主委你身為公平會的主委當然就是要讓所有的制度尤其是一些就是要制度公平啦我跟前舉一個很不公平的事情\n37935\t59021\t超級不公平我剛剛從我們七樓衝來這裡我輸給我們張家俊委員因為張家俊苗條本身就速度會比我快啦可是我覺得還有最重要的原因我們這個立法院這個我們韓院長修理電梯修理好久好久\n60188\t75397\t然後你看他兩邊不公平這不公平的地方來了你看右邊這張照片是單數樓層單數樓層又多停B2跟B3左邊這邊是雙數樓層他只停B1沒有B2跟B3然後你看單數樓層12樓副院長的辦公室也停\n86239\t100513\t我宿樓當然有12樓所以你看單宿樓層就要承載更多的挺等待的時間來跟我們曾經的相親難道權益會比較低嗎\n102717\t129199\t這個真的不公平 拜託這個要跟我們韓院長這個真的反映一下 兩個老君也不公平 阿丹有夠久的立法院這樣的效率真的是不好好 言歸正傳 好可以了這個好好 主委我想跟你聊一下\n130367\t145827\t我們現在的電信業因為今年九月的時候遠傳跟台歌大宣布要取消4G吃到飽不限速的優惠他們宣布取消4G吃到飽這件事情\n147253\t168984\t基本上對民眾是很有感因為我們知道現在對於大部分的用戶來說4G都會覺得事實上是足夠我的生活的一個網路的一個服務所以覺得4G夠的情況之下我要生成5G那個費用就提升很多一倍有餘\n170466\t180472\t所以既然提升了這麼多的費用然後你現在說要取消4G吃到飽然後遠傳跟中華電信兩家就一起跳出來\n181957\t199976\t我覺得這部分一些決策的過程是不是公平會應該要也要表示一點意見呢我想這個取消的部分據我們的了解是如果消費者直接到門市的部分是可以被取消的應該是在經銷商那一塊才會取消那另外就是說剛剛委員關切的這個好像\n200797\t218373\t所有的這個公司都在同一個時間要同時取消當然當然這個如果有涉及到聯合聯合來調整或是變更甚至取消一些交易條件的話這不排除是有聯合行為但是因為因為我們就看數字嘛看數字我這個表裡面你看現在4G的用戶數\n219724\t248777\t不管是中華電信台灣大哥大和遠傳電信4G的用戶明顯都還大於5G的用戶那既然是明顯都還大於而且你看一家是690萬一家是580萬另外一家是470萬都這麼多用戶的情況之下然後你就冒難的說我要去變更你4G用戶的他的服務的一個條件這個條件事實上對於所有的使用者來說是影響很大的\n249800\t276431\t既然有這麼大的一個變更然後做出這樣一個決策我覺得這中間公平會應該還是要有角色我們當然就剛剛跟委員報告了如果有聯合去取消這些條件的話這個當然就違反聯合行為的疑慮但是如果個別的廠商基於他自己成本的考慮還有服務品質跟各方面的考慮他去做一些調整原則上公平會比較沒有介入的空間大概是這樣主委你要知道現在5G是這樣\n278502\t306472\t5G我覺得我們它的架設的進度是慢的尤其是在越偏鄉的地方它說是5G的服務事實上你看已經幾年了它已經運作了多久 5G運作多久了當時政府也是一個整個的一個他們去得標的金額也是有分配讓他們去建設5G你現在很多事實上它雖然叫做5G可是你一旦到了偏鄉到了山上還是到海邊還是跳回來4G\n308311\t336121\t所以拖了這麼久的時間看起來5G的架設就是跟不上嘛跟不上大家的期待嘛那他們現在說要把4G逐漸把4G變嚴格那一定一個基本的想法就是覺得要希望大家提升大家都來5G未來可能還會有更新的更新的頻寬要出來立足點應該是這樣但是看起來現在4G沒有辦法跳到5G就一定有它的原因啊\n337348\t352423\t第一 費用太貴 第二 基本上5G服務的效率沒辦法超越到4G讓整個4G覺得說真的比人慢 比較不方便看起來就不是這樣啊\n353144\t379720\t我想這個當然是新技術轉換之間的一個對消費者可能產生一個震動期那這個的確是值得去關切的問題不過總統剛剛跟委員報告了從公平會的執法角度來看的話我們是比較關切有沒有聯合去做這樣的事情那至於說5G的進度 品質如何這比較不是公平會所能夠介入去處理的部分對 但是我比較在意他們現在要把4G的就是費用調整 然後服務也要調整\n380460\t408723\t這件事我是在意的啊看起來4G現在還是使用的大宗啊對啊但是他現在要去把4G的部分這個對消費者的權利就明顯的明顯的影響到了然後電信業者會同時間丟出這樣的訊息我覺得這件事公平會你要有角色啦我們會從我們本會的立場去了解這件事情後續的發展那我再另外一個議題啦就是我昨天事實上在這裡也有去跟農業部在反映現在\n412833\t432184\t你說齊了的價格不管是畜牧業或者是養殖尤其魚飼料的價格不管是哪一個品牌都飆升到底為什麼他們的成本是哪一端在提高因為我們知道現在國際玉米價格也下降了\n433694\t451227\t國際玉米價格下降照理說這個飼料因為他用了這個飼料的玉米啊怎樣應該要跟著價格也要下降結果沒有下降價格反而還提高事實上公平會在111年的時候也有針對國內啦這是針對魚飼料我當時候也有認為說他們同時漲價3塊涉及聯合行為111年\n460874\t486589\t那我現在我不知道 我沒辦法推斷有沒有聯合行為但是我看到的很多漁民 很多我們的養殖畜牧業者 都是跟我們說的起了 起了 會嫁小鐵哥起了會嫁小鐵哥 跟國際行情又奪不起來國際行情的價碼在下降 我們過來價格一直在提高這件事情我覺得我們公平會是不是也是了解一下\n487256\t511602\t剛剛委員談到的魚飼料這是我們處分的因為它主要是聯合的行為聯合去做一些就111年這一次嘛那委員我想關切的是說上游的原物料價格降低為什麼沒有轉嫁到下方這個問題那這個問題裡面有很多複雜的因素啦有些也不見得是公平會可以介入了因為中間的那個部分有涉及到不同的經銷成本還有相關的成本的考慮每個業者都不一樣啦\n512222\t535897\t不過我們還是會持續去觀察這個事實上他們的作業都一樣因為台灣在飼料這一塊就是雜糧嘛就是黃小玉嘛從過去以來就是一直都是仰賴進口啊所以他們唯一的波動就是國際行情上去啊現在國際行情是下降結果看起來他們的成本他們的對外的售價還是提高\n537210\t545182\t我是覺得這個了解一下我們在調查聯合行為過程當中也會去了解這些事情就是他們的成本的結構等等各方面的好 謝謝謝謝義瑜委員的資訊\n","txt":"謝謝召委那我們是有請公平會我們陳代理主委我們請陳主委謝謝主委你身為公平會的主委當然就是要讓所有的制度尤其是一些就是要制度公平啦我跟前舉一個很不公平的事情\n超級不公平我剛剛從我們七樓衝來這裡我輸給我們張家俊委員因為張家俊苗條本身就速度會比我快啦可是我覺得還有最重要的原因我們這個立法院這個我們韓院長修理電梯修理好久好久\n然後你看他兩邊不公平這不公平的地方來了你看右邊這張照片是單數樓層單數樓層又多停B2跟B3左邊這邊是雙數樓層他只停B1沒有B2跟B3然後你看單數樓層12樓副院長的辦公室也停\n我宿樓當然有12樓所以你看單宿樓層就要承載更多的挺等待的時間來跟我們曾經的相親難道權益會比較低嗎\n這個真的不公平 拜託這個要跟我們韓院長這個真的反映一下 兩個老君也不公平 阿丹有夠久的立法院這樣的效率真的是不好好 言歸正傳 好可以了這個好好 主委我想跟你聊一下\n我們現在的電信業因為今年九月的時候遠傳跟台歌大宣布要取消4G吃到飽不限速的優惠他們宣布取消4G吃到飽這件事情\n基本上對民眾是很有感因為我們知道現在對於大部分的用戶來說4G都會覺得事實上是足夠我的生活的一個網路的一個服務所以覺得4G夠的情況之下我要生成5G那個費用就提升很多一倍有餘\n所以既然提升了這麼多的費用然後你現在說要取消4G吃到飽然後遠傳跟中華電信兩家就一起跳出來\n我覺得這部分一些決策的過程是不是公平會應該要也要表示一點意見呢我想這個取消的部分據我們的了解是如果消費者直接到門市的部分是可以被取消的應該是在經銷商那一塊才會取消那另外就是說剛剛委員關切的這個好像\n所有的這個公司都在同一個時間要同時取消當然當然這個如果有涉及到聯合聯合來調整或是變更甚至取消一些交易條件的話這不排除是有聯合行為但是因為因為我們就看數字嘛看數字我這個表裡面你看現在4G的用戶數\n不管是中華電信台灣大哥大和遠傳電信4G的用戶明顯都還大於5G的用戶那既然是明顯都還大於而且你看一家是690萬一家是580萬另外一家是470萬都這麼多用戶的情況之下然後你就冒難的說我要去變更你4G用戶的他的服務的一個條件這個條件事實上對於所有的使用者來說是影響很大的\n既然有這麼大的一個變更然後做出這樣一個決策我覺得這中間公平會應該還是要有角色我們當然就剛剛跟委員報告了如果有聯合去取消這些條件的話這個當然就違反聯合行為的疑慮但是如果個別的廠商基於他自己成本的考慮還有服務品質跟各方面的考慮他去做一些調整原則上公平會比較沒有介入的空間大概是這樣主委你要知道現在5G是這樣\n5G我覺得我們它的架設的進度是慢的尤其是在越偏鄉的地方它說是5G的服務事實上你看已經幾年了它已經運作了多久 5G運作多久了當時政府也是一個整個的一個他們去得標的金額也是有分配讓他們去建設5G你現在很多事實上它雖然叫做5G可是你一旦到了偏鄉到了山上還是到海邊還是跳回來4G\n所以拖了這麼久的時間看起來5G的架設就是跟不上嘛跟不上大家的期待嘛那他們現在說要把4G逐漸把4G變嚴格那一定一個基本的想法就是覺得要希望大家提升大家都來5G未來可能還會有更新的更新的頻寬要出來立足點應該是這樣但是看起來現在4G沒有辦法跳到5G就一定有它的原因啊\n第一 費用太貴 第二 基本上5G服務的效率沒辦法超越到4G讓整個4G覺得說真的比人慢 比較不方便看起來就不是這樣啊\n我想這個當然是新技術轉換之間的一個對消費者可能產生一個震動期那這個的確是值得去關切的問題不過總統剛剛跟委員報告了從公平會的執法角度來看的話我們是比較關切有沒有聯合去做這樣的事情那至於說5G的進度 品質如何這比較不是公平會所能夠介入去處理的部分對 但是我比較在意他們現在要把4G的就是費用調整 然後服務也要調整\n這件事我是在意的啊看起來4G現在還是使用的大宗啊對啊但是他現在要去把4G的部分這個對消費者的權利就明顯的明顯的影響到了然後電信業者會同時間丟出這樣的訊息我覺得這件事公平會你要有角色啦我們會從我們本會的立場去了解這件事情後續的發展那我再另外一個議題啦就是我昨天事實上在這裡也有去跟農業部在反映現在\n你說齊了的價格不管是畜牧業或者是養殖尤其魚飼料的價格不管是哪一個品牌都飆升到底為什麼他們的成本是哪一端在提高因為我們知道現在國際玉米價格也下降了\n國際玉米價格下降照理說這個飼料因為他用了這個飼料的玉米啊怎樣應該要跟著價格也要下降結果沒有下降價格反而還提高事實上公平會在111年的時候也有針對國內啦這是針對魚飼料我當時候也有認為說他們同時漲價3塊涉及聯合行為111年\n那我現在我不知道 我沒辦法推斷有沒有聯合行為但是我看到的很多漁民 很多我們的養殖畜牧業者 都是跟我們說的起了 起了 會嫁小鐵哥起了會嫁小鐵哥 跟國際行情又奪不起來國際行情的價碼在下降 我們過來價格一直在提高這件事情我覺得我們公平會是不是也是了解一下\n剛剛委員談到的魚飼料這是我們處分的因為它主要是聯合的行為聯合去做一些就111年這一次嘛那委員我想關切的是說上游的原物料價格降低為什麼沒有轉嫁到下方這個問題那這個問題裡面有很多複雜的因素啦有些也不見得是公平會可以介入了因為中間的那個部分有涉及到不同的經銷成本還有相關的成本的考慮每個業者都不一樣啦\n不過我們還是會持續去觀察這個事實上他們的作業都一樣因為台灣在飼料這一塊就是雜糧嘛就是黃小玉嘛從過去以來就是一直都是仰賴進口啊所以他們唯一的波動就是國際行情上去啊現在國際行情是下降結果看起來他們的成本他們的對外的售價還是提高\n我是覺得這個了解一下我們在調查聯合行為過程當中也會去了解這些事情就是他們的成本的結構等等各方面的好 謝謝謝謝義瑜委員的資訊\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.865 --> 00:15.229\n謝謝召委那我們是有請公平會我們陳代理主委我們請陳主委謝謝主委你身為公平會的主委當然就是要讓所有的制度尤其是一些就是要制度公平啦我跟前舉一個很不公平的事情\n\n00:37.935 --> 00:59.021\n超級不公平我剛剛從我們七樓衝來這裡我輸給我們張家俊委員因為張家俊苗條本身就速度會比我快啦可是我覺得還有最重要的原因我們這個立法院這個我們韓院長修理電梯修理好久好久\n\n01:00.188 --> 01:15.397\n然後你看他兩邊不公平這不公平的地方來了你看右邊這張照片是單數樓層單數樓層又多停B2跟B3左邊這邊是雙數樓層他只停B1沒有B2跟B3然後你看單數樓層12樓副院長的辦公室也停\n\n01:26.239 --> 01:40.513\n我宿樓當然有12樓所以你看單宿樓層就要承載更多的挺等待的時間來跟我們曾經的相親難道權益會比較低嗎\n\n01:42.717 --> 02:09.199\n這個真的不公平拜託這個要跟我們韓院長這個真的反映一下兩個老君也不公平阿丹有夠久的立法院這樣的效率真的是不好好言歸正傳好可以了這個好好主委我想跟你聊一下\n\n02:10.367 --> 02:25.827\n我們現在的電信業因為今年九月的時候遠傳跟台歌大宣布要取消4G吃到飽不限速的優惠他們宣布取消4G吃到飽這件事情\n\n02:27.253 --> 02:48.984\n基本上對民眾是很有感因為我們知道現在對於大部分的用戶來說4G都會覺得事實上是足夠我的生活的一個網路的一個服務所以覺得4G夠的情況之下我要生成5G那個費用就提升很多一倍有餘\n\n02:50.466 --> 03:00.472\n所以既然提升了這麼多的費用然後你現在說要取消4G吃到飽然後遠傳跟中華電信兩家就一起跳出來\n\n03:01.957 --> 03:19.976\n我覺得這部分一些決策的過程是不是公平會應該要也要表示一點意見呢我想這個取消的部分據我們的了解是如果消費者直接到門市的部分是可以被取消的應該是在經銷商那一塊才會取消那另外就是說剛剛委員關切的這個好像\n\n03:20.797 --> 03:38.373\n所有的這個公司都在同一個時間要同時取消當然當然這個如果有涉及到聯合聯合來調整或是變更甚至取消一些交易條件的話這不排除是有聯合行為但是因為因為我們就看數字嘛看數字我這個表裡面你看現在4G的用戶數\n\n03:39.724 --> 04:08.777\n不管是中華電信台灣大哥大和遠傳電信4G的用戶明顯都還大於5G的用戶那既然是明顯都還大於而且你看一家是690萬一家是580萬另外一家是470萬都這麼多用戶的情況之下然後你就冒難的說我要去變更你4G用戶的他的服務的一個條件這個條件事實上對於所有的使用者來說是影響很大的\n\n04:09.800 --> 04:36.431\n既然有這麼大的一個變更然後做出這樣一個決策我覺得這中間公平會應該還是要有角色我們當然就剛剛跟委員報告了如果有聯合去取消這些條件的話這個當然就違反聯合行為的疑慮但是如果個別的廠商基於他自己成本的考慮還有服務品質跟各方面的考慮他去做一些調整原則上公平會比較沒有介入的空間大概是這樣主委你要知道現在5G是這樣\n\n04:38.502 --> 05:06.472\n5G我覺得我們它的架設的進度是慢的尤其是在越偏鄉的地方它說是5G的服務事實上你看已經幾年了它已經運作了多久5G運作多久了當時政府也是一個整個的一個他們去得標的金額也是有分配讓他們去建設5G你現在很多事實上它雖然叫做5G可是你一旦到了偏鄉到了山上還是到海邊還是跳回來4G\n\n05:08.311 --> 05:36.121\n所以拖了這麼久的時間看起來5G的架設就是跟不上嘛跟不上大家的期待嘛那他們現在說要把4G逐漸把4G變嚴格那一定一個基本的想法就是覺得要希望大家提升大家都來5G未來可能還會有更新的更新的頻寬要出來立足點應該是這樣但是看起來現在4G沒有辦法跳到5G就一定有它的原因啊\n\n05:37.348 --> 05:52.423\n第一費用太貴第二基本上5G服務的效率沒辦法超越到4G讓整個4G覺得說真的比人慢比較不方便看起來就不是這樣啊\n\n05:53.144 --> 06:19.720\n我想這個當然是新技術轉換之間的一個對消費者可能產生一個震動期那這個的確是值得去關切的問題不過總統剛剛跟委員報告了從公平會的執法角度來看的話我們是比較關切有沒有聯合去做這樣的事情那至於說5G的進度品質如何這比較不是公平會所能夠介入去處理的部分對但是我比較在意他們現在要把4G的就是費用調整然後服務也要調整\n\n06:20.460 --> 06:48.723\n這件事我是在意的啊看起來4G現在還是使用的大宗啊對啊但是他現在要去把4G的部分這個對消費者的權利就明顯的明顯的影響到了然後電信業者會同時間丟出這樣的訊息我覺得這件事公平會你要有角色啦我們會從我們本會的立場去了解這件事情後續的發展那我再另外一個議題啦就是我昨天事實上在這裡也有去跟農業部在反映現在\n\n06:52.833 --> 07:12.184\n你說齊了的價格不管是畜牧業或者是養殖尤其魚飼料的價格不管是哪一個品牌都飆升到底為什麼他們的成本是哪一端在提高因為我們知道現在國際玉米價格也下降了\n\n07:13.694 --> 07:31.227\n國際玉米價格下降照理說這個飼料因為他用了這個飼料的玉米啊怎樣應該要跟著價格也要下降結果沒有下降價格反而還提高事實上公平會在111年的時候也有針對國內啦這是針對魚飼料我當時候也有認為說他們同時漲價3塊涉及聯合行為111年\n\n07:40.874 --> 08:06.589\n那我現在我不知道我沒辦法推斷有沒有聯合行為但是我看到的很多漁民很多我們的養殖畜牧業者都是跟我們說的起了起了會嫁小鐵哥起了會嫁小鐵哥跟國際行情又奪不起來國際行情的價碼在下降我們過來價格一直在提高這件事情我覺得我們公平會是不是也是了解一下\n\n08:07.256 --> 08:31.602\n剛剛委員談到的魚飼料這是我們處分的因為它主要是聯合的行為聯合去做一些就111年這一次嘛那委員我想關切的是說上游的原物料價格降低為什麼沒有轉嫁到下方這個問題那這個問題裡面有很多複雜的因素啦有些也不見得是公平會可以介入了因為中間的那個部分有涉及到不同的經銷成本還有相關的成本的考慮每個業者都不一樣啦\n\n08:32.222 --> 08:55.897\n不過我們還是會持續去觀察這個事實上他們的作業都一樣因為台灣在飼料這一塊就是雜糧嘛就是黃小玉嘛從過去以來就是一直都是仰賴進口啊所以他們唯一的波動就是國際行情上去啊現在國際行情是下降結果看起來他們的成本他們的對外的售價還是提高\n\n08:57.210 --> 09:05.182\n我是覺得這個了解一下我們在調查聯合行為過程當中也會去了解這些事情就是他們的成本的結構等等各方面的好謝謝謝謝義瑜委員的資訊\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.865,"end":15.229,"text":"謝謝召委那我們是有請公平會我們陳代理主委我們請陳主委謝謝主委你身為公平會的主委當然就是要讓所有的制度尤其是一些就是要制度公平啦我跟前舉一個很不公平的事情"},{"start":37.935,"end":59.021,"text":"超級不公平我剛剛從我們七樓衝來這裡我輸給我們張家俊委員因為張家俊苗條本身就速度會比我快啦可是我覺得還有最重要的原因我們這個立法院這個我們韓院長修理電梯修理好久好久"},{"start":60.188,"end":75.397,"text":"然後你看他兩邊不公平這不公平的地方來了你看右邊這張照片是單數樓層單數樓層又多停B2跟B3左邊這邊是雙數樓層他只停B1沒有B2跟B3然後你看單數樓層12樓副院長的辦公室也停"},{"start":86.239,"end":100.513,"text":"我宿樓當然有12樓所以你看單宿樓層就要承載更多的挺等待的時間來跟我們曾經的相親難道權益會比較低嗎"},{"start":102.717,"end":129.199,"text":"這個真的不公平 拜託這個要跟我們韓院長這個真的反映一下 兩個老君也不公平 阿丹有夠久的立法院這樣的效率真的是不好好 言歸正傳 好可以了這個好好 主委我想跟你聊一下"},{"start":130.367,"end":145.827,"text":"我們現在的電信業因為今年九月的時候遠傳跟台歌大宣布要取消4G吃到飽不限速的優惠他們宣布取消4G吃到飽這件事情"},{"start":147.253,"end":168.984,"text":"基本上對民眾是很有感因為我們知道現在對於大部分的用戶來說4G都會覺得事實上是足夠我的生活的一個網路的一個服務所以覺得4G夠的情況之下我要生成5G那個費用就提升很多一倍有餘"},{"start":170.466,"end":180.472,"text":"所以既然提升了這麼多的費用然後你現在說要取消4G吃到飽然後遠傳跟中華電信兩家就一起跳出來"},{"start":181.957,"end":199.976,"text":"我覺得這部分一些決策的過程是不是公平會應該要也要表示一點意見呢我想這個取消的部分據我們的了解是如果消費者直接到門市的部分是可以被取消的應該是在經銷商那一塊才會取消那另外就是說剛剛委員關切的這個好像"},{"start":200.797,"end":218.373,"text":"所有的這個公司都在同一個時間要同時取消當然當然這個如果有涉及到聯合聯合來調整或是變更甚至取消一些交易條件的話這不排除是有聯合行為但是因為因為我們就看數字嘛看數字我這個表裡面你看現在4G的用戶數"},{"start":219.724,"end":248.777,"text":"不管是中華電信台灣大哥大和遠傳電信4G的用戶明顯都還大於5G的用戶那既然是明顯都還大於而且你看一家是690萬一家是580萬另外一家是470萬都這麼多用戶的情況之下然後你就冒難的說我要去變更你4G用戶的他的服務的一個條件這個條件事實上對於所有的使用者來說是影響很大的"},{"start":249.8,"end":276.431,"text":"既然有這麼大的一個變更然後做出這樣一個決策我覺得這中間公平會應該還是要有角色我們當然就剛剛跟委員報告了如果有聯合去取消這些條件的話這個當然就違反聯合行為的疑慮但是如果個別的廠商基於他自己成本的考慮還有服務品質跟各方面的考慮他去做一些調整原則上公平會比較沒有介入的空間大概是這樣主委你要知道現在5G是這樣"},{"start":278.502,"end":306.472,"text":"5G我覺得我們它的架設的進度是慢的尤其是在越偏鄉的地方它說是5G的服務事實上你看已經幾年了它已經運作了多久 5G運作多久了當時政府也是一個整個的一個他們去得標的金額也是有分配讓他們去建設5G你現在很多事實上它雖然叫做5G可是你一旦到了偏鄉到了山上還是到海邊還是跳回來4G"},{"start":308.311,"end":336.121,"text":"所以拖了這麼久的時間看起來5G的架設就是跟不上嘛跟不上大家的期待嘛那他們現在說要把4G逐漸把4G變嚴格那一定一個基本的想法就是覺得要希望大家提升大家都來5G未來可能還會有更新的更新的頻寬要出來立足點應該是這樣但是看起來現在4G沒有辦法跳到5G就一定有它的原因啊"},{"start":337.348,"end":352.423,"text":"第一 費用太貴 第二 基本上5G服務的效率沒辦法超越到4G讓整個4G覺得說真的比人慢 比較不方便看起來就不是這樣啊"},{"start":353.144,"end":379.72,"text":"我想這個當然是新技術轉換之間的一個對消費者可能產生一個震動期那這個的確是值得去關切的問題不過總統剛剛跟委員報告了從公平會的執法角度來看的話我們是比較關切有沒有聯合去做這樣的事情那至於說5G的進度 品質如何這比較不是公平會所能夠介入去處理的部分對 但是我比較在意他們現在要把4G的就是費用調整 然後服務也要調整"},{"start":380.46,"end":408.723,"text":"這件事我是在意的啊看起來4G現在還是使用的大宗啊對啊但是他現在要去把4G的部分這個對消費者的權利就明顯的明顯的影響到了然後電信業者會同時間丟出這樣的訊息我覺得這件事公平會你要有角色啦我們會從我們本會的立場去了解這件事情後續的發展那我再另外一個議題啦就是我昨天事實上在這裡也有去跟農業部在反映現在"},{"start":412.833,"end":432.184,"text":"你說齊了的價格不管是畜牧業或者是養殖尤其魚飼料的價格不管是哪一個品牌都飆升到底為什麼他們的成本是哪一端在提高因為我們知道現在國際玉米價格也下降了"},{"start":433.694,"end":451.227,"text":"國際玉米價格下降照理說這個飼料因為他用了這個飼料的玉米啊怎樣應該要跟著價格也要下降結果沒有下降價格反而還提高事實上公平會在111年的時候也有針對國內啦這是針對魚飼料我當時候也有認為說他們同時漲價3塊涉及聯合行為111年"},{"start":460.874,"end":486.589,"text":"那我現在我不知道 我沒辦法推斷有沒有聯合行為但是我看到的很多漁民 很多我們的養殖畜牧業者 都是跟我們說的起了 起了 會嫁小鐵哥起了會嫁小鐵哥 跟國際行情又奪不起來國際行情的價碼在下降 我們過來價格一直在提高這件事情我覺得我們公平會是不是也是了解一下"},{"start":487.256,"end":511.602,"text":"剛剛委員談到的魚飼料這是我們處分的因為它主要是聯合的行為聯合去做一些就111年這一次嘛那委員我想關切的是說上游的原物料價格降低為什麼沒有轉嫁到下方這個問題那這個問題裡面有很多複雜的因素啦有些也不見得是公平會可以介入了因為中間的那個部分有涉及到不同的經銷成本還有相關的成本的考慮每個業者都不一樣啦"},{"start":512.222,"end":535.897,"text":"不過我們還是會持續去觀察這個事實上他們的作業都一樣因為台灣在飼料這一塊就是雜糧嘛就是黃小玉嘛從過去以來就是一直都是仰賴進口啊所以他們唯一的波動就是國際行情上去啊現在國際行情是下降結果看起來他們的成本他們的對外的售價還是提高"},{"start":537.21,"end":545.182,"text":"我是覺得這個了解一下我們在調查聯合行為過程當中也會去了解這些事情就是他們的成本的結構等等各方面的好 謝謝謝謝義瑜委員的資訊"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":702,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時33分）謝謝召委，有請公平會陳代理主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：委員早。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委，你身為公平會的主委，當然就是要讓所有的制度公平，我跟你檢舉一個很不公平的事情，超級不公平，我剛剛從7樓衝來這裡，輸給了我們張嘉郡委員，因為張嘉郡苗條，本身速度就會比我快，可是我覺得還有最重要的原因，就是我們立法院韓院長修理電梯修理了好久好久，然後你看兩邊不公平，不公平的地方來了，你看右邊這張照片是單數樓層，單數樓層又多停B2跟B3；左邊這邊是雙數樓層，只停B1，沒有B2跟B3，然後你看單數樓層12樓，副院長的辦公室也停，偶數樓當然有12樓，單數樓就要承載更多的等待的時間，請問來跟我們陳情的鄉親難道權利比較低嗎？這個真的不公平，拜託跟我們韓院長反映一下，兩個電梯不公平，每次都要等很久，立法院這樣的效率真的是不好。","好，可以了，言歸正傳，主委，我想跟你聊一下我們現在的電信業，因為今年9月的時候，遠傳跟台哥大宣布要取消4G吃到飽不限速的優惠，基本上民眾對這件事情很有感，因為我們知道現在大部分的用戶都會覺得4G事實上是足夠他生活的網路服務，在這種情況之下，如果要升成5G，那個費用就提升很多，一倍有餘，既然提升了這麼多的費用，你現在說要取消4G吃到飽，然後遠傳跟中華電信兩家就一起跳出來，對於這部分的決策過程，是不是公平會應該也要表示一點意見呢？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想這個取消的部分，據我們的了解，如果消費者直接到門市是可以不被取消的，應該是在經銷商那一塊才會取消。另外就是剛剛委員關切好像所有的公司都在同一個時間同時取消，當然這如果有涉及到聯合調整、變更甚至取消一些交易條件的話，這不排除是有聯合行為，但是……"],["蔡委員易餘：因為我們就看數字嘛，你看我這個表，現在4G的用戶數不管是中華電信、台灣大哥大或遠傳電信，明顯都還是大於5G的用戶，而且你看一家是690萬、一家是580萬、另外一家是470萬，在這麼多用戶的情況之下，你貿然說要變更4G用戶的服務條件，事實上對於所有的使用者來說影響是很大的。既然有這麼大的變更，做出這樣一個決策，我覺得公平會在這中間應該還是要有角色。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們當然就像剛剛跟委員報告的，如果電信公司聯合去取消這些條件的話，當然就有違反聯合行為的疑慮，但是如果是個別廠商基於本身成本、服務品質及各方面的考慮，去做一些調整，原則上公平會比較沒有介入的空間，大概是這樣。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委，你要知道現在5G是這樣，5G架設的進度是慢的，尤其是在越偏鄉的地方。你看5G運作多久了？當時他們得標的金額也有分配，政府讓他們去建設5G，但事實上雖然叫做5G，一旦你到了偏鄉、到了山上或海邊，還是跳回來4G。所以拖了這麼久的時間，看起來5G的架設就是跟不上大家的期待，那他們現在說要逐漸把4G的條件變嚴格，一個基本的想法就是希望大家都提升成5G，未來可能還會有更新的頻寬出來，立足點應該是這樣，但是看起來現在4G沒有辦法跳到5G就一定有它的原因，第一個費用太貴，第二個基本上5G的服務效率沒辦法真的超越4G，讓人覺得4G真的比別人慢，真的比較不方便，看起來就不是這樣啊！"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想這當然是新技術轉換之間，對消費者產生的一個陣痛期，這的確是值得去關切的問題，不過，就如同剛剛跟委員報告的，從公平會的執法角度來看的話，我們是比較關切有沒有聯合去做這樣的事情。至於5G的進度、品質如何，這比較不是公平會所能夠介入去處理的部分。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，但是我比較在意的是他們現在要把4G的費用做調整，服務也要調整，這件事我是在意的啊！看起來4G現在還是使用的大宗，但是他們現在要把4G的部分做調整，這對消費者來說，他們的權利就明顯的被影響到了，然後電信業者會同時間丟出這樣的訊息，我覺得這件事公平會也要有角色啦，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們會從本會的立場去了解這件事情後續的發展。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，那我再問另外一個議題，事實上我昨天在這裡也有跟農業部提出反映，現在飼料的價格，不管是畜牧業或者養殖業，尤其魚飼料的價格，不管是哪一個品牌都在飆升，到底為什麼？他們的成本是哪一端在提高？因為我們知道現在國際玉米價格也下降了啊，國際玉米價格下降，照理說飼料的價格，因為它使用了飼料玉米，價格應該也要跟著下降才對，結果不僅沒有下降，價格反而還提高。","事實上公平會在111年的時候也有針對國內的部分，這是針對魚飼料的價格，我當時候也認為他們同時漲價3塊涉及聯合行為，那是在111年，現在我不知道……我沒辦法推斷有沒有聯合行為，但是我看到很多漁民、很多養殖業、畜牧業者都跟我反映，飼料的價格提高，可是飼料的價格提高又跟國際行情兜不起來，國際行情的價碼在下降，但國內的價格卻一直在提高，這件事情我覺得公平會是不是也去了解一下？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：剛剛委員談到的魚飼料，這個是我們有處分的，因為它主要是聯合的行為，聯合去做一些價格……"],["蔡委員易餘：就111年那一次嘛。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我想委員現在關切的是，上游的原物料價格降低，為什麼沒有轉嫁到下方這個問題。"],["蔡委員易餘：是。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：這個問題裡面有很多複雜的因素啦，有些也不見得是公平會可以介入的，因為中間的那個部分有涉及到不同的經銷成本，還有相關成本的考慮，每個業者都不一樣啦，不過我們還是會持續去觀察相關的……"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上，他們的作業都一樣，因為臺灣在飼料這一塊就是雜糧，就是黃、小、玉嘛。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是、是、是。"],["蔡委員易餘：從過去以來就是一直仰賴進口啊！所以他們唯一的波動就是國際行情上去啊。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：現在國際行情是下降的，結果看起來他們對外的售價還是提高，我覺得這件事你們必須去了解一下，好不好？"],["陳代理主任委員志民：我們在調查聯合行為過程當中，也會去了解這些事情，就是他們的成本的結構等等各方面的。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["陳代理主任委員志民：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝易餘委員的質詢。","現在請葉元之、葉元之，葉元之委員不在。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘都已發言完畢，我們詢答結束。書面質詢及未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。","本日所列議程處理完竣，謝謝大家，現在散會。謝謝。","散會（11時43分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":112,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-19-4","speakers":["陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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