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{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 788.759, \"end\": 788.779, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,793 --> 00:00:30,012\n謝謝主席有請國防部長還有海軍參謀長及海軍參事及台船董事長請部長海軍參謀長還有台船董事長官員好部長好這邊比較嚴肅的一個問題就是海軍包含我們台船瞞天過海欺騙了國防部長\n\n2\n00:00:31,124 --> 00:00:58,244\n部長你感受怎麼樣你被瞞住了台船在過去裡面所發出來的新聞稿包含我們海軍發出來的新聞稿到現在為什麼我們的海昆潛艦到現在你11月份都不敢保證而且你特別說對媒體說挑戰性非常大\n\n3\n00:00:59,105 --> 00:01:17,874\n非常大是悲哀還是樂觀部長你回答一下科文委員報第一個就是說每週這個海軍都會海船都會來跟我報告這是第一點所以相關的這些面臨到的一些狀況他們都會跟我如實的說明這是第一點\n\n4\n00:01:18,820 --> 00:01:33,740\n第二點我想現在我們的報告中已經說明了就是說沒有碰到技術的瓶頸但是有關這些裝備的進行調教需要給我們一些時間\n\n5\n00:01:34,901 --> 00:01:56,812\n所以我相信我們還是有能力來建造完成只是說原來所設想的這些節點我們特別在測試的這個階段可能還需要更多的一點時間本席認同本席認同要確保安全再走下一步今天指出的騎乘的問題\n\n6\n00:01:58,024 --> 00:02:26,565\n就要挑出來海軍必須要跟國人說明台船你們才幾月份從幾月份開始發布新聞稿對外其成又變而且可以如期的交件可是一而再再而三上次媒體問我就已經問了三個問題第一個是什麼問題就是我們的\n\n7\n00:02:28,801 --> 00:02:54,629\n扶航測試第二是潛水潛艦的測試還有深水潛艦的測試這個根本11月份根本沒有辦法交艦的你們還對外說謊瞞了國防部長部長不得不對外是具有相當大的挑戰曹部長\n\n8\n00:02:55,814 --> 00:03:06,088\n還有我們的三四你們報告裡面所講的句句都有道理可是淺見問題就是大在這裡\n\n9\n00:03:07,369 --> 00:03:30,025\n你潛艦的測試深水的測試都沒有辦法等一下我再告訴你們按照國際條例裡面所測試的期程你們既然是6到7個月就可以了這個報告裡面到底是蠻天過海的告訴給國人欺騙國人嗎你們回答一下這個問題好不好\n\n10\n00:03:32,442 --> 00:03:57,254\n委員好我是海軍參謀長那要跟委員凱切的說明的確當初我們在測試的六個月的時間安排的確是有過分的樂觀那實際要依照實際的測試狀況跟這個所以不要為了預算不要為了預算我們並沒有檔但是問題是海昆艦的原型艦\n\n11\n00:03:58,864 --> 00:04:27,774\n連一個建都沒有完成的時候後續的預算裡面我們要如何編對國人有什麼交代你們過去裡面媒體都在罵我們說我們是潛艦殺手結果今天我們講的就是這個問題嘛就是這個問題嘛我們不要騙了國人趕快預算編一編台船隨便亂七八糟的說話等一下台船我特別要點到你啊\n\n12\n00:04:30,558 --> 00:04:57,179\n我們服務航的測試因為基礎的階段容易發現和解決問題所以通常只會使用一到四個禮拜但海昆池在階段已經超過了四個多月第二潛艦潛航的測試大約需要一到三個月第三深水潛艦測試由於風險高每一次深潛在周密的準備後\n\n13\n00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:14,003\n事後檢查也耗時通常要兩到六個月完成所有的海事包含行政作業耗時大約半年到一年但是原形件的時間通常會在一到兩年的時間\n\n14\n00:05:15,044 --> 00:05:40,171\n所以我們按照過去我們的國際柴電潛艦原型艦海測時間的長短的案例第一個澳大利亞的克林斯基約三年實際上長達七年第二日本的艙龍級約一年韓國的這個張文寶高三級約兩年印度\n\n15\n00:05:41,334 --> 00:05:58,059\n由一起的約一年到六個月德國212A約一年所以這一系測試你們雖然要六到七個月這個是欺騙國人啊台船你來回答一下好不好\n\n16\n00:06:00,995 --> 00:06:22,695\n跟委員報告一下我們手艘船台船是很努力在趕工從建造的時候就開始所以這是為什麼我們在COVID-19疫情期間人員的交流在跟國際上或是國內人員的工作上面我們就是用趕工方式才沒有受到太大影響\n\n17\n00:06:23,436 --> 00:06:48,151\n後來二屋戰爭發生供應業也受到影響我們也是用趕工的方式所以現在回答您問題在這個測試的階段我們也是盡量這樣做只是說因為有一些因素譬如說剛剛報告過的在廠商外國寄寫的時程的配額上面因為現在開始是不同的裝備之間互相的整合的部分所以不是單一裝備測試好就好因此如果發生問題\n\n18\n00:06:52,113 --> 00:07:09,768\n要不然你們隨便亂發新聞稿幹什麼為了我們的預算趕快編出來你們好做事問題是我們是在監督預算要讓你們確實確保能夠把原型線做好\n\n19\n00:07:11,049 --> 00:07:35,742\n給國人個交代後續見我們才給編預算但是今天的媒體排山倒海說我們在擋預算剛剛我也特別有講了嘛我們要確保安全我們一定要再走下一步但是我們要對國人要有交代你們台船今年的2月發表新聞稿表示今年4月會如期的海撤\n\n20\n00:07:36,742 --> 00:07:50,986\n海撤這是你們說的預計九月份完成海撤十一月份交線也是你們說的表示認為台船海撤的時間大概需要六個月而已你們都沒按照國際標準剛剛我也講了\n\n21\n00:07:52,887 --> 00:08:22,197\n在國際級的標準裡面的裁電的這個潛艦都必須要嚴格執行而且期程你們都要規定的按照不是隨便講說你跟海軍跟我們國防部然後呢對我們的預算裡面再來編要求編結果編了之後呢你們根本原型艦都沒有辦法完成嘛\n\n22\n00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:52,080\n報告委我們就像剛剛講的在建造的時候跟海設的時候一樣我們會估的比一般國外的時間快一點因為我們願意趕工的關係所以這個而且您看就像您的資料所顯示每一個國家他的時間也是長短不一所以這個是為什麼當時我們看這個還在這個最後這個建造階段我們看到事情是沒有太大的問題所以按照原來估的是一個比較樂觀的時間這樣是沒有錯\n\n23\n00:08:52,660 --> 00:09:14,719\n那開始測試之後發現一些我想我這邊敬告包含海警我一定要敬告你們一下沒有確定的不要對外發布新聞稿不要為了預算的編列結果你發布新聞稿之後你們做不到我上個月上上個月媒體採訪我的時候我就提出這個測試的問題\n\n24\n00:09:17,372 --> 00:09:38,894\n測試的問題絕對沒有辦法兩個月內完成11月份交件這是很明確的連我一般老百姓都知道還騙你們自己本身國防部台船竟然還騙國人這是一個非常嚴重的問題另外就是部長\n\n25\n00:09:40,083 --> 00:10:01,189\n還有我們的董事長關於我們整合在整合式的在台管理系統我們根據海星上週的新聞稿和國防部的今天的報告海昆線現階段正在進行主機與電力管理系統及整合在台管理系統的調教那一般而言整合式\n\n26\n00:10:02,236 --> 00:10:21,016\n在台管理系統的軟體在破崗測試中的吸破測試試驗得到結果後會做最後一次軟體更新和參數調整之後為了確保接下來的海測在穩定的配置下進行\n\n27\n00:10:23,698 --> 00:10:52,110\n讓海策發現的問題可以被準確歸因和附現這個時候會固定住整合是在台管理系統的軟體版本和參數為何在新聞稿今天報告都提到正在實施軟體修改及驗試而且還說增派軟體工程師皆同延長共同作業回答一下這個問題\n\n28\n00:10:54,222 --> 00:11:22,248\n跟委員報告IPMS這個系統它涉及的它是一個高度的自動化跟整合性的一個系統它涉及的傳上很多系統對遠端的遙控跟監視所以它從我們這個測試要從單機開始到單系統針對訊號的格式數值跟正確性都要做確認還有包含它跟保護安全的設計都有關係所以我們一項一項的做測試然後單項系統做完之後才會進到所有系統之間的連測\n\n29\n00:11:23,388 --> 00:11:52,375\n整合式在台管理系統是隨時被調教的嗎被調整的嗎那如果在固定已經固定了就不能再做一個調整了所以問題在哪裡來這個報告給我所以問題就在整合式的在台管理系統有嚴重的錯失有嚴重的這個缺失這個報告給我什麼時候什麼時候把這個嚴重的錯失裡面\n\n30\n00:11:53,234 --> 00:11:55,455\n要調整完成抱歉所有的IPMS系統的訊號格式的測試我們都會繼續執行那要花多少時間我們現在必須跟剛剛委員講的按照安全跟品質的考驗要花多少時間嘛這個是修改以後我們要編預算要對國人交代啊\n\n31\n00:12:22,898 --> 00:12:48,253\n你不要說到時候我發布新聞稿幾月份就用好了那現在我問你要花多少時間現在就很明確的就是一個在台整合式在台管理系統有嚴重的這個做這個嚴重的這個問題那你要花三個月有辦法嗎\n\n32\n00:12:50,129 --> 00:13:08,779\n跟委員報告那個我們整個的這個IPMS的測試已經做過一遍那後來是因為軟體還有一些需要缺改還需要一些調校好多久多久時間把這個報告給我好不好我們回去之後會把這個相關的一個報告然後把這個報告給我了解好謝謝謝謝在本席在這裡\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1793\t30012\t謝謝主席 有請國防部長還有海軍參謀長及海軍參事及台船董事長請部長 海軍參謀長還有台船董事長官員好部長好這邊比較嚴肅的一個問題就是海軍包含我們台船 瞞天過海欺騙了國防部長\n31124\t58244\t部長 你感受怎麼樣你被瞞住了台船在過去裡面所發出來的新聞稿包含我們海軍發出來的新聞稿到現在為什麼我們的海昆潛艦到現在你11月份都不敢保證而且你特別說對媒體說挑戰性非常大\n59105\t77874\t非常大是悲哀還是樂觀部長你回答一下科文委員報第一個就是說每週這個海軍都會海船都會來跟我報告這是第一點所以相關的這些面臨到的一些狀況他們都會跟我如實的說明這是第一點\n78820\t93740\t第二點我想現在我們的報告中已經說明了就是說沒有碰到技術的瓶頸但是有關這些裝備的進行調教需要給我們一些時間\n94901\t116812\t所以我相信我們還是有能力來建造完成只是說原來所設想的這些節點我們特別在測試的這個階段可能還需要更多的一點時間本席認同本席認同要確保安全再走下一步今天指出的騎乘的問題\n118024\t146565\t就要挑出來海軍必須要跟國人說明台船你們才幾月份從幾月份開始發布新聞稿對外其成又變而且可以如期的交件可是一而再再而三上次媒體問我就已經問了三個問題第一個是什麼問題就是我們的\n148801\t174629\t扶航測試第二是潛水潛艦的測試還有深水潛艦的測試這個根本11月份根本沒有辦法交艦的你們還對外說謊瞞了國防部長部長不得不對外是具有相當大的挑戰曹部長\n175814\t186088\t還有我們的三四你們報告裡面所講的句句都有道理可是 淺見問題就是大在這裡\n187369\t210025\t你潛艦的測試深水的測試都沒有辦法等一下我再告訴你們按照國際條例裡面所測試的期程你們既然是6到7個月就可以了這個報告裡面到底是蠻天過海的告訴給國人欺騙國人嗎你們回答一下這個問題好不好\n212442\t237254\t委員好我是海軍參謀長那要跟委員凱切的說明的確當初我們在測試的六個月的時間安排的確是有過分的樂觀那實際要依照實際的測試狀況跟這個所以不要為了預算不要為了預算我們並沒有檔但是問題是海昆艦的原型艦\n238864\t267774\t連一個建都沒有完成的時候後續的預算裡面我們要如何編對國人有什麼交代你們過去裡面媒體都在罵我們說我們是潛艦殺手結果今天我們講的就是這個問題嘛就是這個問題嘛我們不要騙了國人趕快預算編一編台船隨便亂七八糟的說話等一下台船我特別要點到你啊\n270558\t297179\t我們服務航的測試因為基礎的階段容易發現和解決問題所以通常只會使用一到四個禮拜但海昆池在階段已經超過了四個多月第二潛艦潛航的測試大約需要一到三個月第三深水潛艦測試由於風險高每一次深潛在周密的準備後\n298240\t314003\t事後檢查也耗時通常要兩到六個月完成所有的海事包含行政作業耗時大約半年到一年但是原形件的時間通常會在一到兩年的時間\n315044\t340171\t所以我們按照過去我們的國際柴電潛艦原型艦海測時間的長短的案例第一個澳大利亞的克林斯基約三年實際上長達七年第二日本的艙龍級約一年韓國的這個張文寶高三級約兩年印度\n341334\t358059\t由一起的約一年到六個月德國212A約一年所以這一系測試你們雖然要六到七個月這個是欺騙國人啊台船你來回答一下好不好\n360995\t382695\t跟委員報告一下我們手艘船 台船是很努力在趕工從建造的時候就開始所以這是為什麼我們在COVID-19疫情期間人員的交流在跟國際上或是國內人員的工作上面我們就是用趕工方式才沒有受到太大影響\n383436\t408151\t後來二屋戰爭發生 供應業也受到影響我們也是用趕工的方式所以現在回答您問題在這個測試的階段我們也是盡量這樣做只是說因為有一些因素譬如說剛剛報告過的在廠商外國寄寫的時程的配額上面因為現在開始是不同的裝備之間互相的整合的部分所以不是單一裝備測試好就好因此如果發生問題\n412113\t429768\t要不然你們隨便亂發新聞稿幹什麼為了我們的預算趕快編出來你們好做事問題是我們是在監督預算要讓你們確實確保能夠把原型線做好\n431049\t455742\t給國人個交代 後續見我們才給編預算但是今天的媒體排山倒海說我們在擋預算剛剛我也特別有講了嘛我們要確保安全 我們一定要再走下一步但是我們要對國人要有交代你們台船今年的2月發表新聞稿表示今年4月會如期的海撤\n456742\t470986\t海撤 這是你們說的 預計九月份完成海撤十一月份交線 也是你們說的表示認為台船海撤的時間大概需要六個月而已你們都沒按照國際標準 剛剛我也講了\n472887\t502197\t在國際級的標準裡面的裁電的這個潛艦都必須要嚴格執行而且期程你們都要規定的按照不是隨便講說你跟海軍跟我們國防部然後呢對我們的預算裡面再來編要求編結果編了之後呢你們根本原型艦都沒有辦法完成嘛\n503920\t532080\t報告委我們就像剛剛講的在建造的時候跟海設的時候一樣我們會估的比一般國外的時間快一點因為我們願意趕工的關係所以這個而且您看就像您的資料所顯示每一個國家他的時間也是長短不一所以這個是為什麼當時我們看這個還在這個最後這個建造階段我們看到事情是沒有太大的問題所以按照原來估的是一個比較樂觀的時間這樣是沒有錯\n532660\t554719\t那開始測試之後發現一些我想我這邊敬告包含海警我一定要敬告你們一下沒有確定的不要對外發布新聞稿不要為了預算的編列結果你發布新聞稿之後你們做不到我上個月上上個月媒體採訪我的時候我就提出這個測試的問題\n557372\t578894\t測試的問題絕對沒有辦法兩個月內完成11月份交件這是很明確的 連我一般老百姓都知道還騙你們自己本身 國防部 台船 竟然還騙國人這是一個非常嚴重的問題另外就是 部長\n580083\t601189\t還有我們的董事長關於我們整合在整合式的在台管理系統我們根據海星上週的新聞稿和國防部的今天的報告海昆線現階段正在進行主機與電力管理系統及整合在台管理系統的調教那一般而言整合式\n602236\t621016\t在台管理系統的軟體在破崗測試中的吸破測試試驗得到結果後會做最後一次軟體更新和參數調整之後為了確保接下來的海測在穩定的配置下進行\n623698\t652110\t讓海策發現的問題可以被準確歸因和附現這個時候會固定住整合是在台管理系統的軟體版本和參數為何在新聞稿今天報告都提到正在實施軟體修改及驗試而且還說增派軟體工程師皆同延長共同作業回答一下這個問題\n654222\t682248\t跟委員報告IPMS這個系統它涉及的它是一個高度的自動化跟整合性的一個系統它涉及的傳上很多系統對遠端的遙控跟監視所以它從我們這個測試要從單機開始到單系統針對訊號的格式數值跟正確性都要做確認還有包含它跟保護安全的設計都有關係所以我們一項一項的做測試然後單項系統做完之後才會進到所有系統之間的連測\n683388\t712375\t整合式在台管理系統是隨時被調教的嗎被調整的嗎那如果在固定已經固定了就不能再做一個調整了所以問題在哪裡來 這個報告給我所以問題就在整合式的在台管理系統有嚴重的錯失 有嚴重的這個缺失這個報告給我什麼時候什麼時候把這個嚴重的錯失裡面\n713234\t715455\t要調整完成抱歉所有的IPMS系統的訊號格式的測試我們都會繼續執行那要花多少時間我們現在必須跟剛剛委員講的按照安全跟品質的考驗要花多少時間嘛這個是修改以後我們要編預算要對國人交代啊\n742898\t768253\t你不要說到時候我發布新聞稿幾月份就用好了那現在我問你要花多少時間現在就很明確的就是一個在台整合式在台管理系統有嚴重的這個做這個嚴重的這個問題那你要花三個月有辦法嗎\n770129\t788779\t跟委員報告那個我們整個的這個IPMS的測試已經做過一遍那後來是因為軟體還有一些需要缺改還需要一些調校好多久多久時間把這個報告給我好不好我們回去之後會把這個相關的一個報告然後把這個報告給我了解好謝謝謝謝在本席在這裡\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請國防部長還有海軍參謀長及海軍參事及台船董事長請部長 海軍參謀長還有台船董事長官員好部長好這邊比較嚴肅的一個問題就是海軍包含我們台船 瞞天過海欺騙了國防部長\n部長 你感受怎麼樣你被瞞住了台船在過去裡面所發出來的新聞稿包含我們海軍發出來的新聞稿到現在為什麼我們的海昆潛艦到現在你11月份都不敢保證而且你特別說對媒體說挑戰性非常大\n非常大是悲哀還是樂觀部長你回答一下科文委員報第一個就是說每週這個海軍都會海船都會來跟我報告這是第一點所以相關的這些面臨到的一些狀況他們都會跟我如實的說明這是第一點\n第二點我想現在我們的報告中已經說明了就是說沒有碰到技術的瓶頸但是有關這些裝備的進行調教需要給我們一些時間\n所以我相信我們還是有能力來建造完成只是說原來所設想的這些節點我們特別在測試的這個階段可能還需要更多的一點時間本席認同本席認同要確保安全再走下一步今天指出的騎乘的問題\n就要挑出來海軍必須要跟國人說明台船你們才幾月份從幾月份開始發布新聞稿對外其成又變而且可以如期的交件可是一而再再而三上次媒體問我就已經問了三個問題第一個是什麼問題就是我們的\n扶航測試第二是潛水潛艦的測試還有深水潛艦的測試這個根本11月份根本沒有辦法交艦的你們還對外說謊瞞了國防部長部長不得不對外是具有相當大的挑戰曹部長\n還有我們的三四你們報告裡面所講的句句都有道理可是 淺見問題就是大在這裡\n你潛艦的測試深水的測試都沒有辦法等一下我再告訴你們按照國際條例裡面所測試的期程你們既然是6到7個月就可以了這個報告裡面到底是蠻天過海的告訴給國人欺騙國人嗎你們回答一下這個問題好不好\n委員好我是海軍參謀長那要跟委員凱切的說明的確當初我們在測試的六個月的時間安排的確是有過分的樂觀那實際要依照實際的測試狀況跟這個所以不要為了預算不要為了預算我們並沒有檔但是問題是海昆艦的原型艦\n連一個建都沒有完成的時候後續的預算裡面我們要如何編對國人有什麼交代你們過去裡面媒體都在罵我們說我們是潛艦殺手結果今天我們講的就是這個問題嘛就是這個問題嘛我們不要騙了國人趕快預算編一編台船隨便亂七八糟的說話等一下台船我特別要點到你啊\n我們服務航的測試因為基礎的階段容易發現和解決問題所以通常只會使用一到四個禮拜但海昆池在階段已經超過了四個多月第二潛艦潛航的測試大約需要一到三個月第三深水潛艦測試由於風險高每一次深潛在周密的準備後\n事後檢查也耗時通常要兩到六個月完成所有的海事包含行政作業耗時大約半年到一年但是原形件的時間通常會在一到兩年的時間\n所以我們按照過去我們的國際柴電潛艦原型艦海測時間的長短的案例第一個澳大利亞的克林斯基約三年實際上長達七年第二日本的艙龍級約一年韓國的這個張文寶高三級約兩年印度\n由一起的約一年到六個月德國212A約一年所以這一系測試你們雖然要六到七個月這個是欺騙國人啊台船你來回答一下好不好\n跟委員報告一下我們手艘船 台船是很努力在趕工從建造的時候就開始所以這是為什麼我們在COVID-19疫情期間人員的交流在跟國際上或是國內人員的工作上面我們就是用趕工方式才沒有受到太大影響\n後來二屋戰爭發生 供應業也受到影響我們也是用趕工的方式所以現在回答您問題在這個測試的階段我們也是盡量這樣做只是說因為有一些因素譬如說剛剛報告過的在廠商外國寄寫的時程的配額上面因為現在開始是不同的裝備之間互相的整合的部分所以不是單一裝備測試好就好因此如果發生問題\n要不然你們隨便亂發新聞稿幹什麼為了我們的預算趕快編出來你們好做事問題是我們是在監督預算要讓你們確實確保能夠把原型線做好\n給國人個交代 後續見我們才給編預算但是今天的媒體排山倒海說我們在擋預算剛剛我也特別有講了嘛我們要確保安全 我們一定要再走下一步但是我們要對國人要有交代你們台船今年的2月發表新聞稿表示今年4月會如期的海撤\n海撤 這是你們說的 預計九月份完成海撤十一月份交線 也是你們說的表示認為台船海撤的時間大概需要六個月而已你們都沒按照國際標準 剛剛我也講了\n在國際級的標準裡面的裁電的這個潛艦都必須要嚴格執行而且期程你們都要規定的按照不是隨便講說你跟海軍跟我們國防部然後呢對我們的預算裡面再來編要求編結果編了之後呢你們根本原型艦都沒有辦法完成嘛\n報告委我們就像剛剛講的在建造的時候跟海設的時候一樣我們會估的比一般國外的時間快一點因為我們願意趕工的關係所以這個而且您看就像您的資料所顯示每一個國家他的時間也是長短不一所以這個是為什麼當時我們看這個還在這個最後這個建造階段我們看到事情是沒有太大的問題所以按照原來估的是一個比較樂觀的時間這樣是沒有錯\n那開始測試之後發現一些我想我這邊敬告包含海警我一定要敬告你們一下沒有確定的不要對外發布新聞稿不要為了預算的編列結果你發布新聞稿之後你們做不到我上個月上上個月媒體採訪我的時候我就提出這個測試的問題\n測試的問題絕對沒有辦法兩個月內完成11月份交件這是很明確的 連我一般老百姓都知道還騙你們自己本身 國防部 台船 竟然還騙國人這是一個非常嚴重的問題另外就是 部長\n還有我們的董事長關於我們整合在整合式的在台管理系統我們根據海星上週的新聞稿和國防部的今天的報告海昆線現階段正在進行主機與電力管理系統及整合在台管理系統的調教那一般而言整合式\n在台管理系統的軟體在破崗測試中的吸破測試試驗得到結果後會做最後一次軟體更新和參數調整之後為了確保接下來的海測在穩定的配置下進行\n讓海策發現的問題可以被準確歸因和附現這個時候會固定住整合是在台管理系統的軟體版本和參數為何在新聞稿今天報告都提到正在實施軟體修改及驗試而且還說增派軟體工程師皆同延長共同作業回答一下這個問題\n跟委員報告IPMS這個系統它涉及的它是一個高度的自動化跟整合性的一個系統它涉及的傳上很多系統對遠端的遙控跟監視所以它從我們這個測試要從單機開始到單系統針對訊號的格式數值跟正確性都要做確認還有包含它跟保護安全的設計都有關係所以我們一項一項的做測試然後單項系統做完之後才會進到所有系統之間的連測\n整合式在台管理系統是隨時被調教的嗎被調整的嗎那如果在固定已經固定了就不能再做一個調整了所以問題在哪裡來 這個報告給我所以問題就在整合式的在台管理系統有嚴重的錯失 有嚴重的這個缺失這個報告給我什麼時候什麼時候把這個嚴重的錯失裡面\n要調整完成抱歉所有的IPMS系統的訊號格式的測試我們都會繼續執行那要花多少時間我們現在必須跟剛剛委員講的按照安全跟品質的考驗要花多少時間嘛這個是修改以後我們要編預算要對國人交代啊\n你不要說到時候我發布新聞稿幾月份就用好了那現在我問你要花多少時間現在就很明確的就是一個在台整合式在台管理系統有嚴重的這個做這個嚴重的這個問題那你要花三個月有辦法嗎\n跟委員報告那個我們整個的這個IPMS的測試已經做過一遍那後來是因為軟體還有一些需要缺改還需要一些調校好多久多久時間把這個報告給我好不好我們回去之後會把這個相關的一個報告然後把這個報告給我了解好謝謝謝謝在本席在這裡\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.793 --> 00:30.012\n謝謝主席有請國防部長還有海軍參謀長及海軍參事及台船董事長請部長海軍參謀長還有台船董事長官員好部長好這邊比較嚴肅的一個問題就是海軍包含我們台船瞞天過海欺騙了國防部長\n\n00:31.124 --> 00:58.244\n部長你感受怎麼樣你被瞞住了台船在過去裡面所發出來的新聞稿包含我們海軍發出來的新聞稿到現在為什麼我們的海昆潛艦到現在你11月份都不敢保證而且你特別說對媒體說挑戰性非常大\n\n00:59.105 --> 01:17.874\n非常大是悲哀還是樂觀部長你回答一下科文委員報第一個就是說每週這個海軍都會海船都會來跟我報告這是第一點所以相關的這些面臨到的一些狀況他們都會跟我如實的說明這是第一點\n\n01:18.820 --> 01:33.740\n第二點我想現在我們的報告中已經說明了就是說沒有碰到技術的瓶頸但是有關這些裝備的進行調教需要給我們一些時間\n\n01:34.901 --> 01:56.812\n所以我相信我們還是有能力來建造完成只是說原來所設想的這些節點我們特別在測試的這個階段可能還需要更多的一點時間本席認同本席認同要確保安全再走下一步今天指出的騎乘的問題\n\n01:58.024 --> 02:26.565\n就要挑出來海軍必須要跟國人說明台船你們才幾月份從幾月份開始發布新聞稿對外其成又變而且可以如期的交件可是一而再再而三上次媒體問我就已經問了三個問題第一個是什麼問題就是我們的\n\n02:28.801 --> 02:54.629\n扶航測試第二是潛水潛艦的測試還有深水潛艦的測試這個根本11月份根本沒有辦法交艦的你們還對外說謊瞞了國防部長部長不得不對外是具有相當大的挑戰曹部長\n\n02:55.814 --> 03:06.088\n還有我們的三四你們報告裡面所講的句句都有道理可是淺見問題就是大在這裡\n\n03:07.369 --> 03:30.025\n你潛艦的測試深水的測試都沒有辦法等一下我再告訴你們按照國際條例裡面所測試的期程你們既然是6到7個月就可以了這個報告裡面到底是蠻天過海的告訴給國人欺騙國人嗎你們回答一下這個問題好不好\n\n03:32.442 --> 03:57.254\n委員好我是海軍參謀長那要跟委員凱切的說明的確當初我們在測試的六個月的時間安排的確是有過分的樂觀那實際要依照實際的測試狀況跟這個所以不要為了預算不要為了預算我們並沒有檔但是問題是海昆艦的原型艦\n\n03:58.864 --> 04:27.774\n連一個建都沒有完成的時候後續的預算裡面我們要如何編對國人有什麼交代你們過去裡面媒體都在罵我們說我們是潛艦殺手結果今天我們講的就是這個問題嘛就是這個問題嘛我們不要騙了國人趕快預算編一編台船隨便亂七八糟的說話等一下台船我特別要點到你啊\n\n04:30.558 --> 04:57.179\n我們服務航的測試因為基礎的階段容易發現和解決問題所以通常只會使用一到四個禮拜但海昆池在階段已經超過了四個多月第二潛艦潛航的測試大約需要一到三個月第三深水潛艦測試由於風險高每一次深潛在周密的準備後\n\n04:58.240 --> 05:14.003\n事後檢查也耗時通常要兩到六個月完成所有的海事包含行政作業耗時大約半年到一年但是原形件的時間通常會在一到兩年的時間\n\n05:15.044 --> 05:40.171\n所以我們按照過去我們的國際柴電潛艦原型艦海測時間的長短的案例第一個澳大利亞的克林斯基約三年實際上長達七年第二日本的艙龍級約一年韓國的這個張文寶高三級約兩年印度\n\n05:41.334 --> 05:58.059\n由一起的約一年到六個月德國212A約一年所以這一系測試你們雖然要六到七個月這個是欺騙國人啊台船你來回答一下好不好\n\n06:00.995 --> 06:22.695\n跟委員報告一下我們手艘船台船是很努力在趕工從建造的時候就開始所以這是為什麼我們在COVID-19疫情期間人員的交流在跟國際上或是國內人員的工作上面我們就是用趕工方式才沒有受到太大影響\n\n06:23.436 --> 06:48.151\n後來二屋戰爭發生供應業也受到影響我們也是用趕工的方式所以現在回答您問題在這個測試的階段我們也是盡量這樣做只是說因為有一些因素譬如說剛剛報告過的在廠商外國寄寫的時程的配額上面因為現在開始是不同的裝備之間互相的整合的部分所以不是單一裝備測試好就好因此如果發生問題\n\n06:52.113 --> 07:09.768\n要不然你們隨便亂發新聞稿幹什麼為了我們的預算趕快編出來你們好做事問題是我們是在監督預算要讓你們確實確保能夠把原型線做好\n\n07:11.049 --> 07:35.742\n給國人個交代後續見我們才給編預算但是今天的媒體排山倒海說我們在擋預算剛剛我也特別有講了嘛我們要確保安全我們一定要再走下一步但是我們要對國人要有交代你們台船今年的2月發表新聞稿表示今年4月會如期的海撤\n\n07:36.742 --> 07:50.986\n海撤這是你們說的預計九月份完成海撤十一月份交線也是你們說的表示認為台船海撤的時間大概需要六個月而已你們都沒按照國際標準剛剛我也講了\n\n07:52.887 --> 08:22.197\n在國際級的標準裡面的裁電的這個潛艦都必須要嚴格執行而且期程你們都要規定的按照不是隨便講說你跟海軍跟我們國防部然後呢對我們的預算裡面再來編要求編結果編了之後呢你們根本原型艦都沒有辦法完成嘛\n\n08:23.920 --> 08:52.080\n報告委我們就像剛剛講的在建造的時候跟海設的時候一樣我們會估的比一般國外的時間快一點因為我們願意趕工的關係所以這個而且您看就像您的資料所顯示每一個國家他的時間也是長短不一所以這個是為什麼當時我們看這個還在這個最後這個建造階段我們看到事情是沒有太大的問題所以按照原來估的是一個比較樂觀的時間這樣是沒有錯\n\n08:52.660 --> 09:14.719\n那開始測試之後發現一些我想我這邊敬告包含海警我一定要敬告你們一下沒有確定的不要對外發布新聞稿不要為了預算的編列結果你發布新聞稿之後你們做不到我上個月上上個月媒體採訪我的時候我就提出這個測試的問題\n\n09:17.372 --> 09:38.894\n測試的問題絕對沒有辦法兩個月內完成11月份交件這是很明確的連我一般老百姓都知道還騙你們自己本身國防部台船竟然還騙國人這是一個非常嚴重的問題另外就是部長\n\n09:40.083 --> 10:01.189\n還有我們的董事長關於我們整合在整合式的在台管理系統我們根據海星上週的新聞稿和國防部的今天的報告海昆線現階段正在進行主機與電力管理系統及整合在台管理系統的調教那一般而言整合式\n\n10:02.236 --> 10:21.016\n在台管理系統的軟體在破崗測試中的吸破測試試驗得到結果後會做最後一次軟體更新和參數調整之後為了確保接下來的海測在穩定的配置下進行\n\n10:23.698 --> 10:52.110\n讓海策發現的問題可以被準確歸因和附現這個時候會固定住整合是在台管理系統的軟體版本和參數為何在新聞稿今天報告都提到正在實施軟體修改及驗試而且還說增派軟體工程師皆同延長共同作業回答一下這個問題\n\n10:54.222 --> 11:22.248\n跟委員報告IPMS這個系統它涉及的它是一個高度的自動化跟整合性的一個系統它涉及的傳上很多系統對遠端的遙控跟監視所以它從我們這個測試要從單機開始到單系統針對訊號的格式數值跟正確性都要做確認還有包含它跟保護安全的設計都有關係所以我們一項一項的做測試然後單項系統做完之後才會進到所有系統之間的連測\n\n11:23.388 --> 11:52.375\n整合式在台管理系統是隨時被調教的嗎被調整的嗎那如果在固定已經固定了就不能再做一個調整了所以問題在哪裡來這個報告給我所以問題就在整合式的在台管理系統有嚴重的錯失有嚴重的這個缺失這個報告給我什麼時候什麼時候把這個嚴重的錯失裡面\n\n11:53.234 --> 11:55.455\n要調整完成抱歉所有的IPMS系統的訊號格式的測試我們都會繼續執行那要花多少時間我們現在必須跟剛剛委員講的按照安全跟品質的考驗要花多少時間嘛這個是修改以後我們要編預算要對國人交代啊\n\n12:22.898 --> 12:48.253\n你不要說到時候我發布新聞稿幾月份就用好了那現在我問你要花多少時間現在就很明確的就是一個在台整合式在台管理系統有嚴重的這個做這個嚴重的這個問題那你要花三個月有辦法嗎\n\n12:50.129 --> 13:08.779\n跟委員報告那個我們整個的這個IPMS的測試已經做過一遍那後來是因為軟體還有一些需要缺改還需要一些調校好多久多久時間把這個報告給我好不好我們回去之後會把這個相關的一個報告然後把這個報告給我了解好謝謝謝謝在本席在這裡\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.793,"end":30.012,"text":"謝謝主席 有請國防部長還有海軍參謀長及海軍參事及台船董事長請部長 海軍參謀長還有台船董事長官員好部長好這邊比較嚴肅的一個問題就是海軍包含我們台船 瞞天過海欺騙了國防部長"},{"start":31.124,"end":58.244,"text":"部長 你感受怎麼樣你被瞞住了台船在過去裡面所發出來的新聞稿包含我們海軍發出來的新聞稿到現在為什麼我們的海昆潛艦到現在你11月份都不敢保證而且你特別說對媒體說挑戰性非常大"},{"start":59.105,"end":77.874,"text":"非常大是悲哀還是樂觀部長你回答一下科文委員報第一個就是說每週這個海軍都會海船都會來跟我報告這是第一點所以相關的這些面臨到的一些狀況他們都會跟我如實的說明這是第一點"},{"start":78.82,"end":93.74,"text":"第二點我想現在我們的報告中已經說明了就是說沒有碰到技術的瓶頸但是有關這些裝備的進行調教需要給我們一些時間"},{"start":94.901,"end":116.812,"text":"所以我相信我們還是有能力來建造完成只是說原來所設想的這些節點我們特別在測試的這個階段可能還需要更多的一點時間本席認同本席認同要確保安全再走下一步今天指出的騎乘的問題"},{"start":118.024,"end":146.565,"text":"就要挑出來海軍必須要跟國人說明台船你們才幾月份從幾月份開始發布新聞稿對外其成又變而且可以如期的交件可是一而再再而三上次媒體問我就已經問了三個問題第一個是什麼問題就是我們的"},{"start":148.801,"end":174.629,"text":"扶航測試第二是潛水潛艦的測試還有深水潛艦的測試這個根本11月份根本沒有辦法交艦的你們還對外說謊瞞了國防部長部長不得不對外是具有相當大的挑戰曹部長"},{"start":175.814,"end":186.088,"text":"還有我們的三四你們報告裡面所講的句句都有道理可是 淺見問題就是大在這裡"},{"start":187.369,"end":210.025,"text":"你潛艦的測試深水的測試都沒有辦法等一下我再告訴你們按照國際條例裡面所測試的期程你們既然是6到7個月就可以了這個報告裡面到底是蠻天過海的告訴給國人欺騙國人嗎你們回答一下這個問題好不好"},{"start":212.442,"end":237.254,"text":"委員好我是海軍參謀長那要跟委員凱切的說明的確當初我們在測試的六個月的時間安排的確是有過分的樂觀那實際要依照實際的測試狀況跟這個所以不要為了預算不要為了預算我們並沒有檔但是問題是海昆艦的原型艦"},{"start":238.864,"end":267.774,"text":"連一個建都沒有完成的時候後續的預算裡面我們要如何編對國人有什麼交代你們過去裡面媒體都在罵我們說我們是潛艦殺手結果今天我們講的就是這個問題嘛就是這個問題嘛我們不要騙了國人趕快預算編一編台船隨便亂七八糟的說話等一下台船我特別要點到你啊"},{"start":270.558,"end":297.179,"text":"我們服務航的測試因為基礎的階段容易發現和解決問題所以通常只會使用一到四個禮拜但海昆池在階段已經超過了四個多月第二潛艦潛航的測試大約需要一到三個月第三深水潛艦測試由於風險高每一次深潛在周密的準備後"},{"start":298.24,"end":314.003,"text":"事後檢查也耗時通常要兩到六個月完成所有的海事包含行政作業耗時大約半年到一年但是原形件的時間通常會在一到兩年的時間"},{"start":315.044,"end":340.171,"text":"所以我們按照過去我們的國際柴電潛艦原型艦海測時間的長短的案例第一個澳大利亞的克林斯基約三年實際上長達七年第二日本的艙龍級約一年韓國的這個張文寶高三級約兩年印度"},{"start":341.334,"end":358.059,"text":"由一起的約一年到六個月德國212A約一年所以這一系測試你們雖然要六到七個月這個是欺騙國人啊台船你來回答一下好不好"},{"start":360.995,"end":382.695,"text":"跟委員報告一下我們手艘船 台船是很努力在趕工從建造的時候就開始所以這是為什麼我們在COVID-19疫情期間人員的交流在跟國際上或是國內人員的工作上面我們就是用趕工方式才沒有受到太大影響"},{"start":383.436,"end":408.151,"text":"後來二屋戰爭發生 供應業也受到影響我們也是用趕工的方式所以現在回答您問題在這個測試的階段我們也是盡量這樣做只是說因為有一些因素譬如說剛剛報告過的在廠商外國寄寫的時程的配額上面因為現在開始是不同的裝備之間互相的整合的部分所以不是單一裝備測試好就好因此如果發生問題"},{"start":412.113,"end":429.768,"text":"要不然你們隨便亂發新聞稿幹什麼為了我們的預算趕快編出來你們好做事問題是我們是在監督預算要讓你們確實確保能夠把原型線做好"},{"start":431.049,"end":455.742,"text":"給國人個交代 後續見我們才給編預算但是今天的媒體排山倒海說我們在擋預算剛剛我也特別有講了嘛我們要確保安全 我們一定要再走下一步但是我們要對國人要有交代你們台船今年的2月發表新聞稿表示今年4月會如期的海撤"},{"start":456.742,"end":470.986,"text":"海撤 這是你們說的 預計九月份完成海撤十一月份交線 也是你們說的表示認為台船海撤的時間大概需要六個月而已你們都沒按照國際標準 剛剛我也講了"},{"start":472.887,"end":502.197,"text":"在國際級的標準裡面的裁電的這個潛艦都必須要嚴格執行而且期程你們都要規定的按照不是隨便講說你跟海軍跟我們國防部然後呢對我們的預算裡面再來編要求編結果編了之後呢你們根本原型艦都沒有辦法完成嘛"},{"start":503.92,"end":532.08,"text":"報告委我們就像剛剛講的在建造的時候跟海設的時候一樣我們會估的比一般國外的時間快一點因為我們願意趕工的關係所以這個而且您看就像您的資料所顯示每一個國家他的時間也是長短不一所以這個是為什麼當時我們看這個還在這個最後這個建造階段我們看到事情是沒有太大的問題所以按照原來估的是一個比較樂觀的時間這樣是沒有錯"},{"start":532.66,"end":554.719,"text":"那開始測試之後發現一些我想我這邊敬告包含海警我一定要敬告你們一下沒有確定的不要對外發布新聞稿不要為了預算的編列結果你發布新聞稿之後你們做不到我上個月上上個月媒體採訪我的時候我就提出這個測試的問題"},{"start":557.372,"end":578.894,"text":"測試的問題絕對沒有辦法兩個月內完成11月份交件這是很明確的 連我一般老百姓都知道還騙你們自己本身 國防部 台船 竟然還騙國人這是一個非常嚴重的問題另外就是 部長"},{"start":580.083,"end":601.189,"text":"還有我們的董事長關於我們整合在整合式的在台管理系統我們根據海星上週的新聞稿和國防部的今天的報告海昆線現階段正在進行主機與電力管理系統及整合在台管理系統的調教那一般而言整合式"},{"start":602.236,"end":621.016,"text":"在台管理系統的軟體在破崗測試中的吸破測試試驗得到結果後會做最後一次軟體更新和參數調整之後為了確保接下來的海測在穩定的配置下進行"},{"start":623.698,"end":652.11,"text":"讓海策發現的問題可以被準確歸因和附現這個時候會固定住整合是在台管理系統的軟體版本和參數為何在新聞稿今天報告都提到正在實施軟體修改及驗試而且還說增派軟體工程師皆同延長共同作業回答一下這個問題"},{"start":654.222,"end":682.248,"text":"跟委員報告IPMS這個系統它涉及的它是一個高度的自動化跟整合性的一個系統它涉及的傳上很多系統對遠端的遙控跟監視所以它從我們這個測試要從單機開始到單系統針對訊號的格式數值跟正確性都要做確認還有包含它跟保護安全的設計都有關係所以我們一項一項的做測試然後單項系統做完之後才會進到所有系統之間的連測"},{"start":683.388,"end":712.375,"text":"整合式在台管理系統是隨時被調教的嗎被調整的嗎那如果在固定已經固定了就不能再做一個調整了所以問題在哪裡來 這個報告給我所以問題就在整合式的在台管理系統有嚴重的錯失 有嚴重的這個缺失這個報告給我什麼時候什麼時候把這個嚴重的錯失裡面"},{"start":713.234,"end":715.455,"text":"要調整完成抱歉所有的IPMS系統的訊號格式的測試我們都會繼續執行那要花多少時間我們現在必須跟剛剛委員講的按照安全跟品質的考驗要花多少時間嘛這個是修改以後我們要編預算要對國人交代啊"},{"start":742.898,"end":768.253,"text":"你不要說到時候我發布新聞稿幾月份就用好了那現在我問你要花多少時間現在就很明確的就是一個在台整合式在台管理系統有嚴重的這個做這個嚴重的這個問題那你要花三個月有辦法嗎"},{"start":770.129,"end":788.779,"text":"跟委員報告那個我們整個的這個IPMS的測試已經做過一遍那後來是因為軟體還有一些需要缺改還需要一些調校好多久多久時間把這個報告給我好不好我們回去之後會把這個相關的一個報告然後把這個報告給我了解好謝謝謝謝在本席在這裡"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":212,"blocks":[["黃委員仁：（9時50分）謝謝主席。有請國防部長、海軍參謀長、海軍參事及台船董事長。"],["主席：請部長、海軍參謀長，還有台船董事長。"],["顧部長立雄：黃委員好。"],["黃委員仁：部長好。我有比較嚴肅的一個問題，就是海軍包含台船瞞天過海，欺騙了國防部部長，部長，你感受怎麼樣？你被瞞住了，台船在過去所發出的新聞稿，包含我們海軍發出來的新聞稿，為什麼到現在你們都不敢保證我們的海鯤潛艦11月份交艦？而且你特別對媒體說挑戰性非常大、非常大，是悲哀還是樂觀？部長，你回答一下。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，第一個就是每週海軍、台船都會來跟我報告，面臨到的一些相關狀況，他們都會跟我如實的說明，這是第一點。第二點，我們的報告中都已經說明了，就是沒有碰到技術的瓶頸，但是有關這些裝備的調校，需要給我們一些時間，所以我相信我們還是有能力來建造完成，只是說原來所設想的這些節點，特別在測試的這個階段，可能還需要更多的一點時間。"],["黃委員仁：本席認同要確保安全再走下一步，今天指出的期程的問題，就要挑出來，海軍必須要跟國人說明，台船從幾月份就開始發布新聞稿，對外說期程沒有變，而且可以如期的交艦，可是一而再再而三的延遲。上次媒體就已經問了我三個問題，第一個是浮航測試，然後是淺水潛航的測試，還有深水潛航的測試，11月份根本沒有辦法交艦，你們還對外說謊，瞞了國防部部長，部長不得不對外說具有相當大的挑戰。","參謀長還有參事，你們報告裡面所講的句句都有道理，可是潛艦問題就是大在這裡，潛艦的測試、深水的測試都沒有辦法，等一下我再告訴你們。按照國際條例測試的期程，你們竟然是6到7個月就可以了？這個報告是瞞天過海地告訴國人、欺騙國人嗎？你們回答一下這個問題，好不好？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：委員好，我是海軍參謀長。要跟委員剴切說明，當初我們在測試6個月的時間安排的確過分樂觀，要依照實際的測試狀況跟這個……"],["黃委員仁：所以不要為了預算、不要為了預算，我們並沒有擋，但是問題是海鯤艦的原型艦連一個艦都沒有完成，後續的預算我們要如何編？對國人有什麼交代？過去媒體都在罵我們，說我們是潛艦殺手！結果今天我們講的就是這個問題嘛！我們不要騙了國人，趕快預算編一編，台船隨便亂七八糟的說話，等一下台船我特別要點到你啊。","浮航的測試，因為基礎的階段容易發現和解決問題，所以通常只會使用1到4個禮拜，但海鯤號在這個階段已經超過四個多月。第二，淺水潛航的測試大約需要1到3個月。第三，深水潛航測試，由於風險高，每次深潛前，在周密的準備後，事後檢查通常也要耗時2到6個月，完成所有的海測包含行政作業，耗時大約半年到1年，但是原型艦通常會在1到2年的時間。","按照過去國際柴電潛艦原型艦海測時長的案例，澳大利亞的柯林斯級約3年，實際上長達7年；日本的蒼龍級約1年；韓國的張保皐三級約2年；印度的鮋魚級約1年6個月；德國212A約1年。看看這一些測試，你們說要6到7個月，這是欺騙國人哪！台船，你來回答一下，好不好？"],["陳董事長政宏：跟委員報告，這個首艘船台船很努力在趕工，從建造的時候就開始，所以我們在COVID-19疫情期間，人員的交流，在國際上或跟國內人員的工作上面，我們就是用趕工的方式，才沒有受到太大影響，後來俄烏戰爭發生，工業也受到影響，我們也是用趕工的方式。","現在回答您的問題，在測試階段我們也是盡量這樣做，只是有一些因素，譬如說，我剛剛報告過的，在廠商和外國技協時程的配合上，因為現在開始是不同裝備之間互相整合的部分，不是單一裝備測試好就好，如果發現問題的話……"],["黃委員仁：要不然你們隨便亂發新聞稿幹什麼？為了預算趕快編出來，你們好做事？"],["陳董事長政宏：我的意思是……"],["黃委員仁：問題是我們是在監督預算，要讓你們確實、確保能夠把原型艦做好，給國人一個交代，後續艦我們才可以編預算，但是今天媒體排山倒海說我們在擋預算。","剛剛我也有特別講了，我們要確保安全，再走下一步，但是對國人要有交代。你們台船今年2月發表新聞稿表示，今年4月會如期海測，這是你們說的；預計9月份完成海測，11月份交艦，也是你們說的，表示台船海測的時間大概需要6個月而已，你們都沒有按照國際標準。剛剛我也講了，在國際級標準的柴電潛艦海測都必須要嚴格執行，而且期程都要按照規定，不是隨便講講干預海軍、干預國防部，然後再來要求我們編預算，結果編了之後，你們原型艦根本都沒有辦法完成嘛。"],["陳董事長政宏：報告委員，就像剛剛講的，在建造的時候跟海測時都一樣，我們會估得比一般國外的時間快一點，因為我們願意趕工的關係。而且您看，就像您的資料所顯示，每一個國家的時間也是長短不一，這是為什麼當時在最後建造階段，我們看到的是沒有太大的問題，所以按照原來估的是一個比較樂觀的時間，是沒有錯。開始測試之後，發現一些問題，要把它解決……"],["黃委員仁：我一定要敬告你們，包括海軍，沒有確定的不要對外發布新聞稿，不要為了預算的編列，結果發布新聞稿之後，你們做不到。上上個月媒體採訪我的時候，我就提出這個測試的問題，測試絕對沒有辦法在2個月以內完成，11月份交艦，這是很明確的，連我一般老百姓都知道，國防部本身和台船竟然還騙國人！這是一個非常嚴重的問題喔！","另外就是關於「整合式儎台管理系統」（IPMS），根據海軍上週的新聞稿和國防部今天的報告，海鯤艦現階段正在進行主機與電力管理系統及整合式儎台管理系統的調校，一般而言，整合式儎台管理系統的軟體在泊港測試中的繫泊試驗取得結果後，會做最後一次的軟體更新及參數調整，之後為了確保接下來的海測在穩定的配置下進行，讓海測發現的問題可以被準確歸因和複現，這個時候會固定住整合式儎台管理系統的軟體版本及參數，可是為何在新聞稿和今天的報告當中都提到正在實施軟體修改及驗測，而且還說台船已增派軟體工程師，偕同原廠共同作業？請回答一下這個問題。"],["顧主任志中：跟委員報告，IPMS是一個高度自動化和整合性的系統，涉及船上很多系統對遠端的遙控和監視，所以我們這個測試要從單機開始到單系統，針對訊號的格式、數值和正確性都要做確認，還有，包含它和保護安全的設計都有關係，所以我們一項一項做測試，單項系統做完之後才會進到所有系統之間的聯測。"],["黃委員仁：所以整合式儎台管理系統是隨時被調校、調整的嗎？"],["顧主任志中：在測試過程必須不斷調校。"],["黃委員仁：如果已經固定了，就不能再做調整，所以問題在哪裡？問題就在整合式儎台管理系統有嚴重的缺失！什麼時候把這個嚴重的缺失調整完成？請給我這個報告。"],["顧主任志中：報告委員，所有IPMS訊號格式的測試我們都會繼續執行……"],["黃委員仁：要花多少時間？"],["顧主任志中：我們現在必須按照安全跟品質的考驗來完成……"],["黃委員仁：要花多少時間嘛！這攸關以後的預算，要對國人交代啊！你不要到時候又發布新聞稿，說幾月份就好了！現在我就問你：要花多少時間？現在很明確，就是整合式儎台管理系統有嚴重的問題，你要花3個月，有辦法嗎？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：跟委員報告，我們整個IPMS的測試已經做過一遍了，後來是因為軟體缺改還需要一些調校……"],["黃委員仁：要多久？把這個報告給我好不好？"],["邱參謀長俊榮：我們回去之後會把相關的報告給委員。"],["黃委員仁：把這個報告給我！"],["邱參謀長俊榮：是，瞭解。"],["黃委員仁：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。本席在這裡宣告：顧部長自10點10分到12點因公請假，本席予以准假，不過等一下讓徐巧芯委員質詢完畢。","現在請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":208,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-6","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","陳永康","黃仁","徐巧芯","陳俊宇","林楚茵","陳冠廷","賴士葆","王鴻薇","林憶君","王定宇","沈伯洋","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148501_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「潛艦國造原型艦海測執行現況及因應作為」，併請台灣國際造船股\n份有限公司董事長列席，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148501_00006"}}}